#353 - Famous Failures: Shay of Dan + Shay on His First Deal Being A Bust + Luke Combs Told He'd Never Make It + Jason Aldean Dropped from First Label + More!

In this episode, you’ll hear stories from different major artists like Shay of Dan + Shay, Luke Combs, Jason Aldean, Tim McGraw and more talking about failures in their career that turned into successes. From getting dropped from record labels to the times that people told them they didn’t have what it takes to be an artist.

 

 

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to episode three. This is awesome. It's about famous failures,
you know. So we've had a lot of major artists,
a lot of massive songwriters come in and talk about Man,
this is a time where some failure happened and they
thought it sucked for their career, but actually it helped
them in the long run, you know, from getting dropp
from record labels and publishing deals to people that just

(00:26):
told them, hey, as an artist, we don't think you
have what it takes. Obviously, people are all massively successful now,
so it's a reminder that you can win by losing,
That's right. So boom Mike, what's your biggest musical failure?
Your punk? Your punk band? Probably my punk band, Yeah,
I mean we moved to Austin, Texas to try to
make it. We tour Texas and bunch but never quite

(00:46):
got there. And how did that make you better? Uh?
It taught me that even though you suck, if you
find fun in it, it's still worth it. I was
gonna say, I talk, you know, to get a punk
band anymore. There's no money in punk rock. Yeah, but
that was tough on Yeah, not no nothing. I don't
think we made maybe more than like two bucks the
entire time as a band. Oh, that's pretty good if
you don't really have if you can make twohundred bucks

(01:08):
a night, and it's not good, but I'm saying that's
pretty good. If you can make a little money being
a punk band. Back, that's that's just nobody's gonna pay
for that, huh. And it's a tough little niche. Even
if you are pretty big as a punk band, you're
still Yeah, even the biggest punk bands don't make as
much as you would think. Um. Once, I'll give you
a musical failure. Once, I was doing a show in

(01:28):
spring Filled, Missouri at a theater there, and I had
been contacted by a family said hey, mom, she know
she staged four cancer, but she wants to come to
the show and she'd love to meet you. And I
was like, well, hey, I can't believe she want to
come to the show. I believe they said she was
staged four and it was her bucket list item to
meet me. And I was like, dang, she had a

(01:50):
cooler bucket. But you know what, I can actually make
that happen. Such caam and I called her up on stage,
I met her before the show. Then I called her
up on stage because she was just a big fan,
and so I was like, hey, why don't you in
the crowds? Yeah, turn for and I thought, well, let's
just play a song up here and I'll do a
little dance with her. And I said, hey, just play
this song that's on that's next step, the next love
song on the list, and it was ain't No Sunshine

(02:11):
when She's Gone. Oh yeah, it was tough. We started.
I was like, it goes. I think Eddie or Brandon
or somebody was singing it, and it's they ain't no
sun Sha when She's Gone. And I'm like, oh my god,
not this song and anything for this song, and I'm
like trying to hey, go faster, go faster. It's not wish.
She's with like, oh god, this does not feel good

(02:32):
with somebody who told me the so that and then
I reached out after I was like, I'm so sorry.
They're like, no, it was awesome, and I guess they
just didn't associate it with what I associated it with
and they were just happy. In the moment. I was like,
you know, what's gone. The whole time, I'm like, oh,
this is gone viral for sure. So yeah, that's a
pretty that's a pretty bad one. Then all right, here
we go, it's Bobby Cast with famous failures. We're gonna

(02:53):
kick it off with Shane Mooney from Dan and Shay
on how getting out of his first deal led him
to me Dan informing Dan and Shape, here you go,
you go to college for a year, right, yeah, and
then you go, I'm gonna go I need to go
to do music. Yea. What was the point in going
to school? Where it clicked? Was like, it's gonna be tough,

(03:14):
but I gotta get out of school. And I actually
it wasn't even a real it wasn't actually a school.
It was actually a ministry school. So I went there.
It was like a nine month program and I had
a full ride to go to like a music school.
And I decided right before because my sister Gabby had
decided she was going to go up to Pittsburgh to
go to this like nine month you know, program, and
I was just like, I kind of wanna, I'm gonna

(03:36):
go with you. I'm gonna do this. And it was
kind of that I wasn't quite sure what I was
gonna do with my life. I was about to graduate
and I didn't want to go to school for something
that I already felt like I was. I didn't think
I was gonna like learn and if I was going
for like engineering or something like that, which is probably
what I would have done, I just I didn't want
to go to school for like performance major, you know,

(03:56):
and like learn how to sing. I just felt like
that wasn't really the vibe. And so yeah, I kind
of took that that nine months and lived in Pittsburgh. Um,
and then right after that I moved back home, which
is when kind of the whole tea pain thing happened.
Which is an interesting thing too, because when you can
really sing, you can also kind of pick where you sing. Yeah.

(04:17):
Even I give Garth as an example, he was singing
rock songs. Yeah, he was, you know, he was kind
of finding his place early. Um. So, how do you
get discovered by because what was it called? What was
t paint? It was called nappy boy, nappy boy? How
do you get hooked up with them? How do they
see you? What are the steps that led you to

(04:38):
go there? Because did you move to Atlanta for a while?
I did move to Atlanta, So I was so I
lived in Pittsburgh and my sister was she had this
uh she was super good. She a good dancer, like
she was a choreographer and Dylla's stuff and she was
had met this guy named Mike who was actually a
backup dancer for Tea Pain, and so we kind of
all were hanging out there for a little while. And um,

(05:00):
long story short, we get back to Arkansas after you know,
the school, after the nine months, and we're there and
I just randomly get like a text, was like, Hey,
what are you doing. I knew he had worked with
Ta Pain and I guess he had sent some YouTube
video online to Tea Pain. And I was and I
was at Van Buren actually, and I was in a movie.
I'll never forget this, and I like he was like, hey,

(05:21):
like he wants to like, you know, FaceTime you or whatever.
And I was just like I was in this movie
and I didn't have any service and I was like,
I was like, this is the craziest thing ever. So
I go out of the movie and my friend was
like the managers watching and was watching the movie. Did
you think he was? Like? I thought he was like
Arkansas heard of this movie. It's called hot Rod. It

(05:41):
was like this little project I was working on. So
you leave the theater? Yeah, so I leave it. So
I walked outside and I didn't have any WiFi and
the service wasn't good enough, so I had to get
on WiFi. I think it was a FaceTime call. I
can't remember if that was even a thing then, but
either way, I didn't have any service. I had to
like go get on the WiFi. So my friend was
the manager there and like gave me the WiFi pass
for I'm in like this back room at the movie

(06:02):
theater like face timing or whatever. Te Pain and he
was like, hey, I want you to come to Memphis,
like we're playing a show. There was him and Chris Brown.
I want you to come, you know, play with us
and and do this whole deal. So I was just like, yeah,
all right, let's just do this whole deal. Mean, I
didn't have no idea. To this day, I don't know
what that meant. You know, those moments like you get
the call and you're just like, yeah, whatever it is,

(06:22):
I'm down. And that got me into a lot of
trouble probably at some points in my life. Like whatever
that is, I'm doing it. So do you go to Memphis?
I did I went to Memphis and arrive by yourself,
but because you don't know what's happening, like, oh, that's crazy.
Whober actually was not a thing that I guess, but
my sister Gabby, she she drove me up there, so

(06:43):
I drove up there with her. We went to the
show and met with him and basically go on the
bus afterwards, and I think it was like Tea Pain
and his wife and and Mike and all these people,
and I'm just like singing, and just he was like,
I want to I wanna sign you, you know. And
I didn't know what that I just heard, you know,
I'm gonna sign you. I didn't know what that entailed
at the time or what that even you know, looked like.

(07:03):
But yeah, they ended up, you know, because I was
writing even when I was with him. When I end
up signing to him, I moved to Roswell, Georgia, which
is out there, you know, just a suburb of Atlanta,
and I started writing all kinds of stuff. I mean,
I had been writing like country, and I've been writing
pop and been writing like R and B, like all
this kind of stuff. But I knew that I wanted

(07:23):
to do country and that's what. That's kind of how
he the song that he had even heard me covering, um,
I think was a country song, and so he was like,
you know, this is what I want you to do.
This is oh Blood. And basically what I did for
those that year and a half that I lived in
Atlanta was just going too the studio every day until
like five in the morning and just like right two
beats and and everything else. And it was just kind

(07:44):
of a I don't know, it's kind of one of
those just kind of honing my craft moments of like
I didn't really get anywhere, Like there wasn't we didn't
release any music or anything like that. Um, what was
his goal with you? I don't know, I'm not sure. Uh,
the the overall goal, you know that was kind of
like pitch to me, was we want to sign you
to a major you know, I want to get you

(08:04):
to Nashville at some point. But so there was country
music in mind for you, even though it was tea
pain yeah, and we all go, oh, hip hop R
and B yeah, And it was kind of one of
those things that I didn't even have like my sound.
I didn't really know what I was doing either. I
was just writing songs, and I had all these you
know songs that I was writing that wasn't necessarily I mean,
they were like fine, but it just it had my

(08:26):
identity was not found yet. You know. I just didn't
really know what I was doing. So it's kind of
somewhere in there. Um it's hard to put unless I
looked at the timeline. It's hard to put all this
stuff into a timeline. Um. But I remember there was
a moment when I was there where I was just like, what,
we haven't put out any music. We're not doing anything.
I have no idea. There was not really The contract
I signed was a three sixty and I didn't know

(08:48):
what I was doing. I didn't have a lawyer at
the time, so I signed this ridiculous deal. Um. And
I think it was all good intentions on all parties,
but I ended up at some point being like I've
got to go to Nashville, Like I just had to
get there. So I was getting I mean, I had
no money because I was getting paid, you know, whatever
it was. I think I think I was getting paid
maybe like it was like fifteen hundred dollars for two

(09:11):
thousand or fifteen hundred dollars for like, you know, per
month to like live on and stuff. But I was
having to pay like five dollars for my you know,
my rent in Atlanta, and then I had to pay
five off the top to like my manager that was
you know, this guy that had had you know, I
had met in Pittsburgh. He was now my my manager,
and uh so it was a whole thing. So I

(09:31):
had about after I was moving to Nashville. I was
left with about like four hundred dollars to like eat,
like pay everything on after this and go out and expect, like,
you know, try to meet people in Nashville, which four
hundred dollars in a month is not a lot of
not a lot of spending cash. How did you get
out of the deal? Um? It ended up? You know
when I met Dan, uh it was a whole I

(09:53):
mean there was a lot of people that that kind
of helped me get that out of the deal. And
you know, whenever we had we had met, it became
kind of like a man, what's what's going to happen
because this is this is like a problem. I'm still
in this this deal. Yeah yeah, but it was, Yeah,
that that whole that was a pretty rough a little
time there for a little while because it was a
lot of there was a lot of feelings, you know,

(10:15):
feelings hurt on I think on all sides because it
was just this I don't know, I want to go
I don't want to go like two into detail about it.
But it was a rough time I think in his life.
He was he was going through a lot, and it
was just kind of I was just stuck. There was
nobody to like talk to. He had he had gone
away to kind of deal with some personal stuff, and yeah,
it was just kind of all right, well I'm in

(10:37):
this deal and we got to try to figure out
whenever we were talking to these labels, it was like
it kind of became an issue because it rolled really fast.
When Dan and I met and we had kind of
met with you know, Jason Owen and Scooter and things
were kind of rolling. It was just like, well, this
is this is a problem. And I was like I
was freaking out because I'm like, this is a huge opportunity.
And we finally got something or to something yeah that

(10:57):
you can't get out of. Yeah, And it was full
three sixty deal. You know, it was everything you're doing,
have a piece of not just music, but if you
put out a shirt, if you touring everything, all of it,
and it was yeah, it was a rough time, but
we ended up you know really, you know, Scooter and
Jason had a huge part of of kind of getting
me out of that deal. And yeah, man, it was
it was a tough you know start, you know, because

(11:20):
it was just even on that first record, like there
was a lot being being taken out, you know, and
it was just kind of like thankfully I didn't have,
you know, a family at that time or no, you know,
it's not like I was. I wasn't completely broke. Whenever
we had you know, Dan and I had met and
and finally signed. You know, we had like a lot
more money than I had enough to begin with us.
It was enough to live on. But they did a

(11:42):
great job of kind of helping me get out of that,
and you know, Warner Brothers and ESPO and all those guys.
It was, Yeah, everybody's really good. So so the legend
of the fort, which in different places we've talked about,
but you guys met in the living room for at
a house which you've been back by. I've even seen
you posted before. Um Dan was living in that house

(12:04):
and you went over to the house. I did, so
I was living on I was living with my buddy
actually at the time, Um I had I was, I was,
I think I was maybe I don't even remember how
if I even was paying him, but I was basically
sleeping on his couch for like a little while. His
name was Brandon Metcalf, great guy, and he had a
studio and I was like working a lot with him

(12:25):
when I had moved to Nashville and kind of had
my place, and um, there was a guy named Andrew
Um that just one night we had been writing a
lot and he told me he was like, man, I'm
going over to these guys house. They had a band
at the time. He's like, they're having a house party.
You know, you want to come with me? And I
was just like, yeah, sure, let's do it. And at
that time, it was just kind of like any time

(12:45):
you could go somewhere without spending any money. And he
knew that there was like we knew that there was
a keg and I was like aishment that's always chased
was like, do you think they got like pizza or
someone like I haven't even like a couple of days.
But it was like, yeah, showed up at this house,
and little did I know that that night was going
to completely change my life. You guys start talking that night.

(13:06):
When was it that you said, Okay, we're actually going
to try something together, which means putting everything else aside.
There's a difference in going, hey, we should do something
together and going we're doing something together. I would even
say it's comparable to in that part of a relationship
where you're just dating and you go, we're only dating
each other now, yeah, so that means nothing else can
exist except us. What was that point where you guys

(13:28):
finally said we're just dating each other? Well, it was
not until just a couple of weeks ago. We Uh,
it kind of happened. It happened really naturally where Dan
I started writing. Really, I think it was either that
next day or like the day after that. We had met.
We were jam until probably like four in the morning
or something like that, and I think we decided to write.

(13:49):
So we get up the next day and we go
we met it like a Starbucks or something, and then
we ended up going to uh, this this guy that
I was, Jesse Fraser. I'm sure that on this show.
I know he's been here, love him. One of the
greatest guys. When I had for quick side side notes,
this all makes sense Jesse. When I had first moved
to town, I had a friend and I asked him.
I was like, who is doing like beats? Because I

(14:10):
have been writing to a lot of beats. I've been
writing like country songs two beats, which is now like
a common thing, but it was just kind of becoming
a thing then. And I was like, who is a
great track guy in in Nashville. And the first name
that he's that my friend is nash Over Street, which
is paulver Street songwriter. Uh. And he was like Jesse Fraser.
So I started writing with Jesse um a lot. And

(14:31):
then whenever Dan and I had met, I was like,
let's go right with with you know, with Jesse Fraser
or at at his place. So we ended up writing
our first writing session. I think we wrote two songs
that that day and one of them got put on
hold that night. But for Rascal Flats, So what you
wrote a song that day? Yea, they sent it out
maybe too Flats because they thought it's this it was

(14:54):
sensible for them. That night he got put on hold.
I think it was that night. Yeah, Like when we
got home they were like this is on hold for
Flats and for us were like things, things are heating up,
things are really really good at which, if you know,
you know what a hold is when they never cut
the song or anything like that. But for us, it
was just like it was legitimately like Rascal Flats heard

(15:15):
our song. That was a huge and as small as
that you know, might seem now, you know, in our minds,
it still it was such a big deal because it
was you know, you have these big dreams when you're
coming to town, and it was kind of that first
taste of like whoa this is like somebody who's who
has done it, who is a successful artist, has they
liked our song and put on hold. So that was
a huge deal for us, and that was kind of

(15:36):
the fuel to be like we should let's let's you know,
keep doing this because we liked, you know, what songs
are writing. Would you compare that early part of you
and Dan And I don't mean this spacetiously at all,
but when you meet a girl, like when you and
Hannah meet and you're like, oh my god, this is it,
Like it's similar to that feeling with him as it
was because if you're rand of four in the morning,

(15:56):
that's what you do when you talk to all to
four in the morning. Yeah, I mean, I don't think
for either of us, we just were kind of it
wasn't It was different than when I met my wife,
because when I met Hannah, I literally told my friend
Benji Davis is a writer in town. He I told him,
like right then. It was in Arkansas. It's like our
first date. It was at George's Majestic Lounge, and I

(16:17):
like walked her out to her car and I got
back on the bus and I was like, I'm gonna
marry that girl, literally said like that night. But Dan,
it was like we were having fun writing these songs.
We didn't necessarily like we thought they were good, but
we didn't necessarily be like we're gonna make this is
We're not gonna or or marry each other. But not
neither one of those were on my mind. And I
think it just kind of happened naturally to where like

(16:37):
we thought the songs were good, but as you do,
you know when it's when it's your work. We thought
it was good and it we knew I think the
most exciting thing for us was there was an aha moment,
but it wasn't necessary like oh, we're gonna be a duo.
It was like, this is the kind of music that
I've been trying to write. This is all like everything
is kind of led to this, you know. It was
like the stuff that I had been wanting to write

(16:58):
but just couldn't hadn't quite found the sound yet. So
are you saying that when you two first started it
was like we found partners in creating more so than
we could go be a duo. It was exactly that.
It was like, oh man, this is like this is
the kind of stuff. It was like better than any
of the stuff that I had been writing in town.
And I think for both of us it was just
kind of like, well, this is like we we got
something special here. So then how long until you decide

(17:19):
you're going to actually pursue the artist thing together? Yeah,
So we started to all these songs we've been writing,
because we we did start to write a lot together,
and so the more that we wrote, we would just
start doing like these writers rounds and like playing these
songs for our friends, and like our friends and everybody
were getting hype on these songs like this is the
greatest song, like we were doing when we were in
five oh seven. Morton Avenue was the place. I can

(17:39):
say it because we've said it a million times. I'm
sure that the owner of that house hates us for
probably talking about all the time. Um, but it was
like I think we would go to that. We went
to the house one time I specifically remember, and I
think it was Pete Tracy, who now does all of
our video stuff. It was his birthday and we remember
we shot like a fake music video for one of
the songs because we love it was so good and
it was just like it was just ridiculousness. We were

(18:01):
having so much fun and it was just like, man,
this this stuff is really cool. So we started to
play all the all the music out like rounds and stuff,
and then Dan and I we had eventually like there
was actually an opportunity that we had to go down
Um and I had booked a show. It was just
like Shale Mooney and we were opening up. We did
two shows together without actually being like a band at all.

(18:22):
It was just like he was there with me and
we were playing all the songs we had written and
one was at Georgia's opening for Chris Allen and I
thought that we I thought I made it. Then I
was like this is you know, things are really starting
to take off. And then another one we played was
that in Conway um at at u c A. There
was this kid who booked me and I thought it
was gonna be like the biggest show ever. And I

(18:44):
think this. It was in there like little performing arts
theater which probably holds like, I don't know, maybe people,
and there was probably fifteen people in there. And uh,
right after that, we went down to Austin, Texas because
my lawyer had set up this like showcase basically for us,
and we went down. We put together a band, the
whole deal. Then I drive down on my truck and

(19:06):
we ended up playing the show and it was I'm
not kidding, there was There was honestly probably like four
people in the room, and one was my lawyer, one
was like a bartender girl in the back, and then
our friend Paul di Giovanni, which ended up writing how
Not To for us used to be in the band
Boys Like Girls. He was there, and then Dan's lawyer
and there was like no other people there. We rehearsed

(19:26):
for like four days, and we were we thought it
was gonna be like our big break, and uh yeah,
it wasn't our big break, but at that time it was.
I think on the way back from that trip, we
kind of made the decision of, like we've been doing
these shows together, like we should, we should kind of
we should do a duo. And I think it's hard
to kind of put all this in my mind to

(19:46):
like line it up, but kind of when we were
writing all these songs, um, there was a guy who
had who knew he worked for Scooter Brun at the time.
His name was Nano and he knew Scooter and he
had kind of been talking to to Scooter, I guess
about us, and uh yeah, during that time, Scooter ends
up we're at a writing session and uh we had
kind of decided like, all right, we're gonna do this

(20:07):
this duo thing, and uh, once we kind of decided
that was when Scooter had heard about us, and we
were in a writing session at a guy named Danny
Orton's house and there was he faced times us and
basically says like I wanna work with you, and uh
Ed Sharon was was there, which is really funny because
he was like, will you guys play that song that
I like? It was a song called stop Dropping Roll

(20:27):
that was actually on our first record. We had like
just written it and he was like, play that song.
So we we played it and at the end he
was like, my friend wants to hear the song because
he really loves it because we had sent him maybe
like a demo or something, and Ed Sharon like pops
in and say, hey, guys, how are you. This is
like the worst Edhering impression. Hey guys, how are you?
And he yeah, we like saying stop Dropping Roll acoustic
like overface time to him, and that was kind of

(20:49):
the start of it. Okay, so here we go. Here's
Luke Combs on the guy who told him he'd never
be an artist at he performed for this guy. And
pretty cool story because obviously Luccomb's biggest thing cuting music
right now. The tweet you posted where you said, I
think the topic was tell me something about yourself that
no one'll believe. And the gest of it was that

(21:13):
you came to town and you had some songs and
people were like, hey, they weren't good, and your old
thing was don't let anyone let you stop chasing your dreams. Yeah,
those meetings where you were rejected, are they vivid to you?
The early meetings definitely. Um. The one in the meeting
in particular was with somebody. It was, you know, they

(21:35):
have like the artist like writer reps at like b
M I. So I had a friend that had a
rep there, and I went in and I was like
very excited because I had just moved to Nashville at
this time and I didn't know anybody, you know, I
knew a couple of writing buddies and was going out
and playing a few writers rounds and writing songs every day,
and because by that time, I was living off of

(21:56):
those songs that I had put out the previous year.
And I went in and it was kind of like
this this person was like, we'll play me three songs.
And I was like, oh cool, Like this person is
gonna be like I'm gonna play these three songs and
like they're gonna walk me into the best publishing thing
and they're gonna like this guy is great, Like how

(22:17):
could you not love this guy? Give him a publishing deal?
So I played Hurricane when It Rains in one number away,
which were my first three number ones, and they were like, Okay,
here's the deal. You gotta get better a songwright, and
you gotta write better songs and you're never gonna be
an artist. So that's it. And I was like, and

(22:39):
I wasn't like mad, do you know who said it? Yeah,
but I'm not gonna I'm not gonna say I would
never ask you to say it, but I'm just asking
if you know who's that? Oh? I know? Yeah? Have
you seen them since? Yeah? I've ran into them awkwardly
at actually the b of my awards. Do you think
they remember telling you that? Or do you don't get
someone that was coming through anyto this time? I don't

(23:01):
think so at all, which is fine, you know I have.
I have nothing against that person, you know what, because
I get it. Man. I mean it's it's like, if
you look at it, would I would. I would equate
it to at that level, you know, because you're not
even screened at all. At that level, like any Tom
Dick or Harry can walk in off the street pretty
much to be a my and get one of those meetings.

(23:21):
So I can't imagine the pressure of like, Okay, well,
I've got six kids, that moved to town yesterday that
want to come in and they all think they're awesome,
and I've got to be able to figure out which
ones I think are good enough to go on to
the next thing. And so I wasn't mad about it
at all. I'm actually very thankful for that meeting because

(23:42):
I did go out and feel like I wrote some
of the best songs that I had ever written, because
I was like, man, I gotta I gotta write more
and do better, Like I'm not even close to as
good as I need to be. And so I just
kept my head down and I went and wrote a
ton of songs, and and then there is kind of

(24:02):
the rest is just kind of fell into place. I mean,
I know that's, you know, summarizing a big chain of events,
but that's kind of how it felt like. At a
few minutes left her, I wanted to run a couple
of other things about you that I heard. First of all,
a lot of folks come in, myself included that worked
retail because we kind of had to. You gotta pay
the bills somehow as you're chasing your creative endeavor. And

(24:24):
I worked at hobby lobby. Mike, who was in Michael
Hobby from Thousand Horses worked at the Buckle. You worked
at isod. How did that go? I was not a
great fit at iod Um, but I had you know,
I had as much fun with it as you could
possibly have folding people's golf sweaters, you know. Um. It

(24:46):
was in an outlet mall, like one of those like
Tanger outlets or whatever they call it. They had one
in Blowing Rock, which is right down the road from Boone.
So it was I mean, it was pretty pretty miserable.
And how long did you do that? I probably worked
there for I mean close to a year probably, I
would think. And whenever you are walking past a table

(25:07):
of shirts that are messy, does it bother you? And
will you refold a shirt? No chance? No, no chance.
But I'll tell you what I do. I do fold
a mean shirt, you know, when I'm when I'm doing
the laundry at home, which I'm sure people are supposed
to do do laundry. My fiance does handle the brunt
of the laundry, um, but I do. I do chip

(25:28):
in quite a bit and you know, help fold stuff.
And you know, I'm not I'm not afraid to do laundry.
I I don't. I don't mind it at all, but
or I if I wasn't in a committed relationship, I
would throw it. Yeah, but I do separate it now
just because that's what. But now it's like her stuff's
in there, which is the thing? Like mine are just old,

(25:50):
like gross t shirts and jeans really, so I'm not
too worried about them like shrinking or like. But now
there's this whole like don't wash this thing with that thing,
and don't dry this thing, but it's gotta be tumble dried,
but don't put it in with this thing that has
to be high heat. And then some stuff is like

(26:11):
cold water. And so it's I mean, it gets pretty
matthey to me, you know. And I don't left school
because he didn't even take laundry. That was like year three,
and that was year three and I skipped laundry class,
that's for sure. The bank bag, I'm curious about the
used to save money in. So you went and bought
one of those bank bags. It zips like it with

(26:34):
the lock on it. Yeah, so what was that about?
And and where was this money coming from? You were
sticking in the bag, So I had I had started
playing shows. And when Cappy moved to town after he
started managing me, he had never managed anybody before. Um,
you know, he kind of blew through his life savings
like trying to build my career and and so he

(26:55):
made a promise to me. He was like, hey, man,
I'm not gonna take a commission until you're actually making
enough money too, like live off of And so at
the time, you know, the gigs were I mean, they
could have been tud fifty dollars a night, they could
have been a thousand dollars a night, and those were
a thousand dollars was really good, you know. And so

(27:16):
we would go and do those gigs and excuse me,
I would take you know, t shirt money, whatever was
left over. And and Cappy was great because he would
always go settle the show. You know, he would run
me through the statement every night and day. Here's what
we got, and here's what we did, and here's the
tickets and this, and and there were always we were
and we were selling out everything, you know at that time,

(27:38):
which is great on those club gigs because usually they
they'll they'll kick you back a pretty like sweet bonus
and it's always cash. And so That's where the money
was coming from, was that these sellout bonuses on these
club shows, and so I would I was like, I
remember getting to thinking I had like five or six
thousand dollars in my apartment, you know, and I was like, man, like,

(27:58):
somebody just walk in here and like at this if
they wanted to. So I had like a Folger's can,
and instead of putting just the money in there, I
put it in the bank bag and then rolled the
bank back up and put it in there. It's a
back like behind my microwave on my counter. My microwave
kind of sat like in a corner, so it was
kind of there was that space behind it, yeah, because

(28:19):
it was diagonal. Yeah, And so that's what that's what
that's where the money was coming from. And that's what
I did with it at that time. All Right, here's
one with Jason al Dean and we was talking to
Jason about this and this is him now because he
didn't feel like this back in the day, but this
is him now being glad his first record deal did
not work out. You know. I mentioned all the number
ones and all the success and awards, but I think

(28:41):
and if someone just was introduced to you, you are
Jason al Dean, the country superstar. But you know, I
talk a lot and have written an entire book on
failure and how important it is to learn, Like if
you look at your professional career and you look back
at a failure that actually made you a better entertainer,
a better performer, I any of that, Like what was

(29:02):
that thing that didn't work out? Or you're like, man,
I'm kind of glad they didn't work out because I
learned from it. Um. I would say when when I
got dropped from Capitol Records early on, I got signed
to Capitol Records and about two thousand I think it was,
and uh, I was on the label for a year,
never even recorded one song for him, and uh, and

(29:24):
got dropped from the label. And and so that was tough. Man.
It was like I'd spent you know, I mean, that
was the brass ring, That's what I was after. And
to finally get that and to not even really get
a chance to prove myself before I got dropped was
just I don't know, it did a lot. It was
like it was sad, but it also like kind of
pissed me off a little bit. And Uh, to me,

(29:44):
that was the thing that made me like really want
to go out and and kind of proved myself and
and um, and that's why when I got my next
record deal offer, it was from both Broken Boat Records,
which was a little independent label. Um really didn't even
have any superstars. I mean, Craig Morgan was over there
and was having some some just starting to have a
couple of hits. I think Sharie Austin was over there

(30:07):
at the time and had a hit or two, but
they really didn't have a whole lot going on. And so, um,
you know, I signed over there with no clue how
that was gonna work out, but at least it was
somebody willing to give me an opportunity. And and I
think for a long time I sort of carried that
chip on my shoulder to to go out and really
want to prove myself. So I would I would say
that was the main thing. Why would you be signed?

(30:30):
And I understand why you would get dropped if you
had put out a single that didn't do well or you,
but why would they sign you and then drop you
before giving you a legitimate chance? Well, so I signed
over there. Um. The head of the label was was
a guy named Pat Quigley, and so when when they
signed me, and so literally before I could sign my deal, um,

(30:54):
the new president came in, which is Mike Dungan who
who was there now And I have since talked to Mike.
We were great, like I love Mike, but he came
in and I just don't really think he got it.
I don't think he was a believer in in what
I was doing at that time, and um, and so
I think he wouent ahead and signed the deal, but

(31:15):
I don't think he was ever really a believer in it.
And so ultimately it just kind of fizzled out and
went away. When you came to town though, that was
a bit of a jolt to the system. And you know,
I didn't why not much small level like I understand
that because when I came here and people are like,
what is this, I don't understand it. It ain't gonna
and I kind of had to beat it into submission.
And here you were. You look different, you sounded different.

(31:38):
There's a little more of an edge. Did you get
a lot of that? Like, I just don't get it. Yeah,
I mean I go back and listen to some of
the stuff we were doing early on, and and as
edgy as I thought it was at the time, I
listened to it now and I'm like, this, really it
really wasn't. But at the time it was, and so um,
you know, I think that was a little bit of that.
I mean, we were we were different than anything else

(31:59):
that was out the time and and so um. But
I think the best thing could happen to me was like,
I didn't I didn't really know the rules, Like, you know,
I didn't know there there were rules. I didn't know
you couldn't remember having ear rings and that being a
huge thing, ear rings and a cowboy hat. And I'm like, really,
I've had these since those seventeen years old. Like it
wasn't a big a deal for me. But um, if

(32:19):
you don't know the rules, you don't play by Yeah,
And so to me, it was just like, you know,
it just kind of went went along business as usual.
And uh, I don't think we really knew at the
time that what we were doing was kind of, you know,
changing the game a little bit. With you having your
own label now and night Train Records, I would assume
all of that that you've learned along the way, both
failures and successes. Uh, like has made you a better

(32:45):
head of a label. Yeah, I mean I think so.
I mean, I think it's just experience, you know. I
mean it's it's guys. I mean, with with other artists
that we have, um, just having them be prepared for
things or if something pops up, it's like, you know,
I'm sure that I've either gone through it or or
you know, I have witnessed it, so you know, it's

(33:05):
I can talk to those guys on on a level
of like, Okay, I've seen this before, I've been through this,
this is what's gonna happen. This is how how you
deal with it. Um, you're not just an executive like
you've actually you are, but now, but you've done all
of what they're doing. You're through every single stuff, so
you can empathize more than just sympathize. Yeah. Absolutely, man,
I mean and and you know I try to be
you know, not only like kind of run the label,

(33:27):
but label, but also you know, produced those guys and like, um,
you know a guy we're working with, John Morgan, he's
on this New America's uh Songwriter contest show that's out
right now. You know, he's representing North Carolina and so,
you know, having a talk with him, he's like, you know,
I don't know, this is an opportunity we have, you know,
what do you think? And sitting down and talking to

(33:47):
him about those kind of things and um, you know,
it's just just kind of been there, done that, and
can at least give some insight into whatever it is
they got going on? They got any good? He's great, great,
can't wait for you guys to hear him. I have
not it's nothing. Now. He's got a song out. We
released something last year just because we took him out
on tour with us. It's called Coldest Beer in Town.

(34:07):
And um, we just you know, wanted to have something
out on him while he was out on tour with
us for people to go get. But but his big
launches is coming this year, so he's uh. He was
a writer on the Carry duet and he's also a
writer on the new song we Got Trouble with the Heartbreak.
Here's Tim McGraw And this is Tim McGraw's biggest failure.
That happened when Bruce Springsteen asked him to perform at

(34:29):
a tribute. Pretty funny story from Tim mcgrawl. Right here
was there a moment in your career that you look
back at there was a massive failure, and you go,
I'm really glad that happened because I learned a lot
from it that allowed a lot of those successes. But
you know, you always learn more from your failures than
you do your successes. And you know, I certainly certainly
have had my moments where I wasn't the best person
I could be or the best artist I could be.

(34:50):
You know, I've had those moments for sure. Um. The
biggest massive failure and embarrassment that I had was at
the Grammy Cares one year. Um, Bruce Springsteen, who's a
friend of mine and one of my favorite people in
the world, asked Faith and I to to do tougher
than the rest together for his the honor of honoring

(35:12):
him at the At the thing, you never all these
huge artists were there. I mean Neil Young, I mean
you Steing, you name it, they were all. They're performing
Springsteen songs, and and anybody that knows Springstey, you know
it's so hard to cover his songs because a lot
of them are so left footed and and wordy and
all that kind of stuff. So we're sitting at his
table and he goes, you know, at the end, I'm
getting up and doing uh oh, what's that song? One

(35:33):
of those those Anyway, we got up and I said, sure,
well look it up and sing. So we all were
all on stage, all these artists on on stage, and
it was one of those songs where everybody knows the
first person knows the chorus, but nobody ever really knows
the second verse. So we're standing there and he turns
around and says, hey, black Hat comes sing the second verse.
And I'm like, I can pull this off. And I

(35:56):
go up and now I just a total fail. I
couldn't find the phrasing. I didn't know the words. I mean,
it was terrible, and I was so embarrassed. It was
one of those nights I've just ruined my career, I've
just ruined her. Luckily, because it aired luckily, I got
to go back and fix it and they were able
to cut away and and so it didn't look like
I forgot the words, but it was. It was. It
was one of those things I can't do it on

(36:17):
in front of everybody. But Faith was standing beside me,
and I got up and tried to sing it. And
when I stepped back. She did like a little bit
of a side step away from it. I don't know
that's funny. Here's Jimmy Westbrook from A Little Big Town.

(36:38):
Is him talking about how they got dropped from their
first record deal just months after signing. At the time
kind of destroyed them, but now very happy it happened. Obviously,
from that point where you meet Philip, when did you
have to create the LLC or that now it's an entity,
like we aren't just friends that are singing making forty
bucks for four of us to split. We're now going

(36:59):
to pursue this, and if we're going to pursue it,
it's got to exist. So when did that happen? It
was right right around that same time. I mean it
all happened, like from the time that I said I
was going to do this to the time we um
that was maybe at the end of ninety eight when
we were having these conversations. I moved in February of nine.

(37:24):
We were a four person group, all the four existing members,
and just a few months later had a record deal.
So that was all super fast. I moved here in
February and we started. I remember I just opened up
that branch of that company, and I was already going, hey,

(37:45):
I'm not going to be able to come. We're gonna
go sing for some labels and that kind of thing.
They were super I was really up front about all that.
When I moved, I'm like, I have this intention, so
you're probably gonna run into this issue at me. And
so when it happened, they were have an intention to
watch the game, You're can run into this issue the
buses at park where I can get signal thinking ahead, yes,

(38:08):
that's pretty quick to get a record deal. Yeah, I
mean we sang for six labels. We took a one guitar.
I didn't even really play guitar at that time. UM
took it in and saying live in front of all
the record execs. And we got about five offers out
of the six. Geeze. So if I'm you, I'm going

(38:29):
to well or one step away from fame and it's on. Yeah,
when did you realize that that's not quite how it works? Well?
We um, we got our record deal. We in fact
the signed the night we signed with Mercury Records, which
lasted about four months. Maybe. UM, we got a spot

(38:49):
at the Opery to play. We only knew three songs.
We played all of them, um, and then they immediately
whisked whisked us away and a limo to the airport
to go sing at the day La Hoya fight for
the national anthem. And when we were getting picked up
in limos at the airport in Vegas, I was like, oh,

(39:12):
this is on and then we lost our well we didn't.
We walked away from that. It was a handshake walk away.
Not many months after that, so it was quickly like, oh,
this this is not going how I thought it was
gonna go. Well, I'm gonna ask you and I have
you expand on both of these, but the harshest reality

(39:35):
once you get a deal and then but then actually
kind of the greatest fairy tale that because you've been
able to experience both. I'll say that you guys are
in my mind if I'm just speaking of my thoughts
and feelings here, which is often what I do. Like, Um,
you guys have really worked. Everybody works hard. You guys

(39:55):
have worked hard, and you've had a boom, big song.
I like what you guys do. Though you try to
push in different directions and at all times it's not
always People aren't always receptive of new things, and I
always admired that you guys continue to try that regardless.
And so you say there's a gap, But in my mind,
I'm like, yeah, probably gap because people don't understand what

(40:15):
you guys are trying at the time, right, Like, that's
how I interpret You're not saying it. That's how I'm
interpreting because I've been able to experience a lot of it,
not beside you, but running in a parallel path. So
when I say harshest reality, biggest fairy tale, you've got
to have them both. Let's start with the harshest reality
of what it is that you do and and what
you've had to experience. Well, I mean, I think I

(40:38):
immediately go to to the time when I was just
telling you that, Um, the Mercury deal started going awry. Um,
had you know what's going awry? Did you feel it?
It was made very we were made aware that it was.
We without going into too much of the the backside

(41:00):
of of all that, we we basically signed at Mercury
cut a few sides, and when the powers that be
at that time at Mercury heard the sides that we did,
we cut about four songs. UM They basically said, hey,
if if any of this is who you are, we're

(41:22):
not interested. They were just were not in and so
the harshest reality was UM. I think in that moment,
I remember them saying all of that UM and basically
felt like we had an ultimatum like our So I

(41:42):
I just remember going to the parking lot after that
conversation and all of the four of us sitting in
a car shell shocked. I mean, we just signed our deal,
we had did you know the day Lahoya fight this
is and then all of a sudden, now that's about
to be yanked out from unders. We're about to lose

(42:03):
our record deal. But I'll tell you this, in that moment,
and I think that was a pivotal moment for the
band as far as what you're talking about of pushing
and following our gut and our heart and where we
musically want to go. We had that decision to make

(42:24):
that day, and it was the hardest decision probably, oh
I know at that time that we've made. It was
incredibly difficult because we were we were sitting there having
to ask ourselves is any part of what we just
presented them us? And it was you know, some of
the production might not have been quite the right direction,

(42:46):
but we're still experimenting, trying to figure out who we are.
But the harmony, structures and all of that of what
we presented was us. So we made the decision ourselves
that we were going to walk away from it. But
because if they're telling us that they don't want any
of that, then we can't stay here. That's that's not
going to be true for ourselves, and and but it

(43:09):
also set the ground work for who we became as
a band as far as living and dying by our
own decisions. Now, when I mentioned on the other side
of that, like like it's so great, it's weird, like
they're they're You're like, wow, this is going so wonderfully

(43:31):
that it feels like it's the dream. Because I'm lucky
enough to get those moments too, I mean where you're
just like, I can't believe it's happening. I feel like
I have so many of those moments. But um, it's
always to me the unexpected, unbelievable moments, like collaborations that
you do with people, or the being asked to be

(43:55):
an Opery member. It's the things that you didn't even
take the time to dre him up because you're like, oh,
I didn't know that was possible. Um, it's kind of
all of those moments of um, you know, singing on
John Mellencamp record, like we we ended up doing non
songs on one of his records as the vocals for

(44:16):
his thing. It's it's those kinds of moments that you
get to share the stage with people that you're just like,
I don't how I'm from Somerton? How did I? How
did I? How am I standing up here on this
stage with this person? And those are the moments that
I'm so grateful for and that you can't plan. Um
that they just kind of worked themselves out and happened,

(44:39):
and it's you just walk away going, man, what a
what an incredible blessing this has all been. Here's Russell
Dickerson with his wife Kaylee and how he got drawn
from his first publishing deal I getting paid to write songs,
and how he sat on his first big hit, Yours
for two years before being able to record it. That
whole deal from back then pub deal? Did it turn

(45:00):
into all the things we thought it was going to?
Fair wise you still would same published company. Also, you're
out of all of that. Yeah, that was that. The
first I signed in two thousand eleven, that was a
two year deal, got dropped after two years, um, and
then that was two thousand thirteen, and I didn't even

(45:21):
write yours until two thousand fourteen. And then I didn't
sign a deal till you haven't made that song and
it's after two years. Huh. Yeah, well, what's kind of
the genesis of your writing that song? And it took
a second for it to kind of happen. Yeah, so
you're right, like, just tell me about the So the

(45:42):
overall picture is January twenty something is when we wrote it,
and then January twenty something, literally almost to the day,
four years later, four years is when it went number one.
So four years in between that was. I had one

(46:05):
offer for a publishing deal. We took it, we had to,
We had no just got married. I got dropped the
week we got back from our honeymoon. So that was
a great We made twelve dollars that you yea combined. Yeah,
So that was that was year one of marriage and
then soeen we wrote it, and I mean we just

(46:26):
we went all around town. Everybody said no, all the
majors all the indies every I mean literally, were you
were you chasing an artist deal with that song? Were
you also pitching the song as well? So you want
you wrote it? You're like, it's mine on this hill? Yeah,
the whole, the whole, This whole time, I was like,
I'm an artist writer, you know, like that was that
was what I wanted to do, and so, uh yeah,

(46:48):
I was just like I we obviously didn't take no
for an answer, but I just put everything on this
one song. I was like, I know, I know that,
I know that, I know this is a hit. And
and it took, i mean another two years from writing
it too to go to labels and showcases and do
the whole dance. And it wasn't until uh thirty Tigers

(47:13):
slash now Triple Tigers. They've just started a whole brand
new label, and it was it was Norbert Nicks, who
had just got a let go from Sony, and like
Kevin Herring who just gotta let go from Warner. It's
all these guys who kind of, you know, related to this,
this like being rejected kind of mentality, like a little

(47:36):
chip on your shoulder a little bit, and um, and
it just all came together with this tiny little label.
I was the only artist on there and they had
me one song, and that was that was what really ignited.
I mean I missed the whole video part, but in
industry wise, industry wise, that that was what what really

(47:58):
like took took it. You know, at what point because
the label was a small independent label, so it's it's
difficult because they don't have the promotion infrastructure right for
for an independent that they just don't have arms and
fangs everywhere. So but at what point, though, did you
realize we actually have a shot with this thing, Like

(48:19):
this thing could actually be a massive hit. Like what
was it a number on the chart? Yeah? Like were
you hearing about research? Because it was also a ballad,
Oh my dear God, I don't play. But then it
started jumping like it was only in the twenties for

(48:39):
like three weeks, four weeks something like that. It was
like jump, two spots, jump, three spots, jump, and then
it was in the teens and we were like who woa, whoa, whoa,
what was happening? Did you do this song on any
any TV? On any anything on our favorite? Did you
do the Bachelor? It seems like the bachelor. Okay, I
don't know this, but it seems like this, this would
be that kind of song, big pop from that. Absolutely

(49:00):
it was a couple, Rachel and Dean. Rachel she was
she was like bab Dean was Geanie babies. Do you
know Dean Bachelor in Paradise? He came back. I've never
seen us. Not the guy to talk, but but I
don't know Rachel. Okay, So she's an attorney, she's smart,

(49:23):
she's really cool. You play this on the show or
it was ever on radio? I'm pretty sure? Or no, No,
it was on radio and it jump because it was
so hard after it jumped like tin spots on airplay
and top top of the iTunes charts, you know, just
like craziness. That was. That was a big jump. When
you played that song on the show, you did over

(49:44):
and over again. Yeah, it was that two is Are
you just playing with them? Dani? What was the scene?
Was that awkward? Uh? Well they were late first of all,
So it all started where we never had a tour
bus before, but we got to ride down in a
tour bus and then to South Carolina, South Carolina. Um,

(50:06):
and then so we're waiting, we're waiting. We're waiting. I
think Chris Harrison was felt bad. So he comes on
our bus and you know, we have a we raise
a toast, we have to have a drink, and we're
just like hanging out with Chris Harrison on our bus,
which for us at the time, we were like, I
was freaking out. He was there for like two hours
and we shared we had knob right now and I

(50:27):
had him signed the bottle and I have it in
my house, like I mean, like I'm a fan. And
he let us every Monday, like her and her gal
pals get together and watch Bachelor. He's also really nice.
He's so nice to me, let us. He let us
come to after the final rows. He was like, let
me take us, do you want. I was like, it's
twelve too many, and he was like, no, we'll make
it happen. We I mean, me and all my friends
filed in, Like it was so fun. It was really

(50:50):
cool to like make it a real life experience and
not so like this is the show. That's cool that
you got to watch him play on the show and
you got to hate because you're a fan. When you're
a fan of something, it's so much cool that when
it actually works out in a way that makes you
still feel good. Yeah, and it was fun. It was
I think the whole thing is a crazy phenomenon. And
do I think it's the best way to find someone? Now?

(51:11):
Am I highly entertained by drama that has nothing to
do with my own life? Yes? I love it. I
love it. They are they dancing? Is a dance scene.
It's like a slow dance makeout. And how many times
do you think you have to play that song with
them dancing? Yeah, it was like two or three. But
they have to make out every time on cue? No, no, no,
they just think I mean, they made out, but they

(51:33):
wanted to. It wasn't like make out at this It
wasn't choreograph. This is Reba on how a bad review
from USA Today ended up leading to the success of
our TV show, Reba. Whenever you started to do Rebo,
your your television series, did you guys get a straight

(51:54):
deal or did you do a pilot and then the
pilot got picked up? I was in the midst of
doing any Get Your Done. We went in in April.
I took ten days off from and he gets Your
Gun to Do go to California shoot the pilot. Then
we went to Upfronts, which is in May, and I
had done eight shows that week. I got Monday off.

(52:16):
Tuesday morning was up front, so I had to be
but crack of dawn over there. And they changed the
name three times. When we filmed the show for the pilot,
it was the script was called Sally, and Marvel went
to him and said, you know, if you did the
afternoon filming as Sally and then in front of the

(52:39):
audience tape it and Reba Briba instead of Sally, then
let's see how that tests out. And they said, okay,
so the title went from Sally. By the time I
got to Upfronts, it was deep in the heart because
we were off from Houston, Texas and we were the
Heart family. So then there came out this thing on

(53:01):
the USA today that they're publisist. Publicists had said, why
the w B had ever heard rebut mac and tire
for this part is ridiculous. She's not ever Yeah, she's
not our demographics, And so the head of the company
called by the time we got back to the hotel
after up Fronts and said, terribly sorry, terribly sorry. What

(53:23):
can we do to make up for this. Well, I'd
already gone back to bed. I had a performance that night.
So Norvel was talking to Hernie. He heard me get
up and go to the bathroom and out of the
other room and he said, um, hang on, let me
put reb on the line. Banged on the bathroom doors.
So pick up the phone and so I said hello.
I said, we're terribly sorry, what happened and what was
in the USA today? What can we do to make

(53:46):
this up to you? And I was half asleep and
I said, uh oh, well, she said well, Norvell said
if we call it Reba, you'll be happy with that.
And I said that's a wonderful idea. Thank you, hung up,
went back to bed. So that's how I got the
name Reba. And so you go, did you move out
to l A because it was that like you said, Hey,
I got I just gotta go. If I'm gonna do this,
I don't need to visit it, I need to go

(54:07):
live it. Oh we had. We were there three weeks.
So what happened was I got through it. Then he
gets your gun. On June we went to Ireland for
a vacation. I did five weeks all Girl tour and
then went to l A. Found found an apartment, a
condo we lived in for the first season, because you
never know, it could go thirteen weeks and you don't

(54:29):
get picked up. But then we got picked up on
the back nine, and then Marvel went house hunting and
we bought a house and we were there for six
and a half seasons. Did that ever feel like home
out there? I loved living in l A. I'd love
to go back and do another show. Oh yeah, absolutely.
Have you guys, you know, explored different versions of that.

(54:49):
Have you been close, real close? Have you shot a
pilot to anything? Yeah, the Mark Cherry pilot. We did
one called ox Blood, and uh, they passed on. It's
always a weird thing because I've shot a few pilots
and had it passed on, where you feel like everybody
so pumped about it and everybody loves it. But then

(55:11):
might have been talk shows like, oh, this is it.
Research has been great, it's been it's tested so wonderfully. Well,
let's spend some month. Well it's just right now. So
is that show? That show is done? That show is done, unfortunately,
which I thought it was gonna you know, last forever.
I thought I'd retire off of that show. I mean
the ox Blood that show. That's it. Yeah, Mark Cherry,

(55:34):
I love his show now Why Women Kill. It's just
he is a genius. I saw my wife watching that
show one day and I was like, why are you
watching Why? I don't know what it was about, just
exactly what are your motives? Are we learn from this show? Yes? What?
Here's Cain Brown's manager, Martha Earls on getting fired before

(55:55):
an award show for spending too much time with her
new artist at the time, who was Kane Brown. And
this is right before he exploded on the country music scene.
I let go of other things. There are other people,
other clients I had fired me. I remember when person
fired me, like the night of the c m A
is because I was paying too much attention to Kine
and and and honestly that was all a gift, right
because for the first two two and a half three

(56:18):
years we worked together, it was all we did. We
were so focused. Kane and I were like laser beam
locked in and if something came at me that didn't
have anything to do with what our mission. I know,
I just ignored it. When you do. When you guys
were kind of making your early plan was that, hey,
people are going to tell you you don't look like
country music, and here's what we're going to do back

(56:40):
at that, Um yeah, I mean people, it wasn't even
a well, I didn't even think about, oh, we're going
to retaliate that we're not retaliable, but but it can be.
We're gonna put out great songs over and over again,
keep doing what we're doing right and super serve the
fans and super serve the people that are there for you,
you know. And that's even the advice. It's now it's

(57:00):
like even Kine and I talked about it now where
people are so mean on the internet, and it's like,
just lean into the ones that are kind. You know. Yeah,
when whenever I moved here, it was awful. I mean
the first two and half years were awful for me.
You're awful. I can't imagine. And it wasn't just Nashville,
because Nashville kicked the crap out of me for a
long time, but it was you know, they took us

(57:22):
and put us on all of these country radio stations,
which meant a lot of these stations had radio guys
that were either retiring or they were firing because ratings
weren't good, and so we weren't just feeling it on
a level here at home, we were getting it in
every single market. So I had to tell my guys, like,
stay off of everything, let me handle it, stay off
of it. But what we're going to do, we're never
going to get those people. They are never they are.

(57:44):
They made a couple of years come back around. But
we got to take our people who are with us
and make sure they know that they are the most
important thing, and that's who we're here for. And so
it was a version of that where we just knew
we weren't getting those people that were that were upset
that we existed. You can't that'll that'll exhaust you, and
why not lean into what's working, and because eventually they'll

(58:05):
start growing and and for you, for Kine, for whoever.
Those then they start out numbering the dissenters, and then
all of a sudden, they start quieting the dissenters. And
that's where you want to be. And then some of
the dissenters come back around and go, you know what,
I don't really give you a chance at first, but
they don't. They never said they're wrong. By the way.
They never said they were wrong. They're just like, you know,

(58:28):
I hated you at first, and now you know, I'm
sister like Sha. They won't even say they like us,
but they're like, hey, my sister like Sha. But I
just I know what that feels like to go and
and and not the same way at all because we
do different things. But just have everyone immediately go, you're
not us and you don't represent us, when in the end,
I represented them more than anything in the past that

(58:49):
had claimed to do so, which was the craziest thing
to me exactly. But you never had that opportunity to
even express that. So when Caine is putting out the
first music as a managed was he signed yet or
did you do that with him? Um? Yeah, it feels complicated. Yeah,

(59:12):
it's completed. Okay. So when you put you when you
put out your first music that you're going to go
to DSPs, digital or radio, like your first this is
our first big release together. Why did you choose the
body of work that you chose, Like, what was it
to you that that said here, this is our entrance
into the big world. Yeah? When he So when I

(59:34):
first started working with Kane, he had put some songs
out independent. He was in a production deal and independently
had put some songs out and they did really well.
So then when he made his first, like you said,
it was an EP, it was a five or six
song EP for Sony. It was it was a couple
of those songs that he had put out, you know,

(59:55):
they've never really been including a collection of work. And
then the other were came. He did really work on
his songwriting when he came to town. He really worked
on songwriting and found his small group, and so the
others were songs that he had written that he was
proud of, and Kane was touring, he was selling out.
What was crazy is he was selling out two thousand

(01:00:16):
cap rooms without having any product out. It was wild
and so we really couldn't get that first EP out
quick enough. So when you put out what was the
first song, I'm trying to think about it. You used
to love You sober was his first kind of song.
So why that one? Um? That one was the song
that he That was the first song he ever wrote
when he came to Nashville, and he put it on

(01:00:38):
social media and came was one of the first artists
to tease their music in Nashville at least, I don't
want to outside Nashville. Other people were doing it, but
in Nashville to really tease his music on social media,
and the demand for it was so high that he
put it out. Were you satisfied with the reaction and
also the success of the song because it wasn't a

(01:00:58):
number one. I don't thing it was the thirties number.
But did you feel like, hey, we got some good
traction here with the first one, or we disappointed. Well,
we put it out and it at the time, iTunes
was the thing. You know. iTunes really mattered, and it
did really well in iTunes and number one on iTunes.
We're like, oh my gosh, when we put this, take
this to the radio, It's going to be like an
instant hit. And it wasn't. And so that was a

(01:01:22):
bit of a reality check. And the thing about it
is with Kane was selling all these tickets and so
we were like, you know what, We're still connecting with
people obviously because they're coming out and seeing the show
and there the song was a gold record and all
of this stuff. So we just you just have to
kind of keep moving, keep working towards something. The second

(01:01:44):
song UM the label chose it was called Thunder in
the Rain. You know, I don't remember that one. I
remember that. I know the first one, Thunder in the
Rain was went to like number forty eight. It was
not UM, not not necessarily the greatest one we had,
and so thunder in the Rain, uh. I remember when
that was out. It was up tempo and it was like, okay,

(01:02:04):
this is but it's real musically it wasn't really as
much kine. It's not like he performs it live every
night or whatever. But UM by this point he had
made a full album, and so we put out his
first full album UM with a number forty eight song
coming off the chart. Are you guys like it's like
two worlds, It's like one world you're selling. You're selling

(01:02:25):
both both tickets and music, because at the time that
was the thing. We actually sold downloads. But then you
have I'm assuming these old school UM gatekeeper radio programmers
that just aren't buying it. I mean, it's buying it.
The term that you would use. I mean there was

(01:02:47):
I think, you know, and I would never say who.
I don't. I don't even know if they're still around,
but I remember there was one um, one person at
a station. And I didn't really get in the weeds
on that, because you know, the record labels have like
whole teams of people that talk to the radio and stuff,
and but somehow, I don't know, I think because we
were doing a show in the market and I remember

(01:03:09):
I was talking to this guy and and he uh,
I was like, hey, Kane, sold out the show in
your market, and uh, it would be awesome, like if
you could, you know, maybe like play the song. We'd
love to sold out the show in their market. And
you're begging for radio. Oh yeah, that happened everywhere. And
he and the guy said, well, we don't. I don't
play urban music. I played country music. And I said, oh,

(01:03:30):
I know, that's that's wonderful because Cam Brown is a
country artist. And he said, no, he's not. And I said,
yes he is. It's like this like it was like
comic almost, and yes he is, and he goes, I
know he's not. I just looked at him and I said, okay,
well maybe you should go listen to him. And that
was the end of the conversation and he did not
play the song. I looked at him, I know he's

(01:03:54):
not country I looked at him, and I'm assuming again.
I'm gonna do a lot of assuming here that as
Kane has again, and we're going to end this in
a little bit talking about how massive he is yet
still under appreciated. That again, how massive he is in
places that's probably still happening in a way, and I
think that's probably why he's not getting the respect he deserves.

(01:04:18):
I think, do you mean, like for award nominations, I mean,
for everything you know? I don't. I don't know. I
mean I think sometimes uh, I don't know. Maybe people
put their vote behind what they see themselves in and
maybe they're the same perficial and don't see themselves and

(01:04:40):
how somebody looks. Well, then I will say it. I
do think that is a major There's just no reason
that an artist, if you take away faces and skin
color and genitals, let's pull all that off. Okay, it's
the weirdest shape and you just line up body of work, songs, uh, streams, hits, radio, radio,

(01:05:05):
number one's concert. There's no reason that Kane shouldn't be
and he is to people like me and fans, but
to the people that are organizing these higher level awards
there's no reason he shouldn't be in those conversations. Thanks
for listening to this Bobby Cast. Hope you enjoyed it,

(01:05:27):
and I hope you look at the famous failures that
we add here and you leave this feeling inspired by
hearing how things may not always go the way you
at hope, but it can act to actually turn into
something pretty awesome if you just don't quit. Also, you
just can't predict the future, so don't stop pushing. Be
sure to subscribe to the Bobby Cast wherever you're listening
to this now rate at five stars if you don't mind.
That would be because when people give us one star,

(01:05:48):
we keep pushing, don't we mind? Keep going, but keep
going We could use those five stars. We'll be back
next Friday with a brand new episode. We appreciate you, guys,
and we'll see you next time on the Bobby Cast.