John Esposito is leaving the position as the Chairman & CEO Warner Music Nashville after 13 years. He has overseen the label and grown it exponentially since he began in 2009 with artists from Dan + Shay to Kenny Chesney. He talks about taking Blake Shelton from a point of almost getting dropped to being a super star. Espo is already credited with jump starting the careers of Hunter Hayes, Brett Eldredge, Cole Swindell and many more. He talks about the behind the scenes of running a record label, the advice he offers artists and what he will do after leaving Warner. He also shares some great stories about meeting Frank Sinatra, Paul McCartney and going to Burger King with Jay Z.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, episode three seventies seven. John Esposito referred
to his es BO. He's the head of Warner Music Nashville.
Big record label, cool record label, very successful record label,
especially since he took over. You could tell from this, Mike,
I have a long relationship with ESPO. With John, however
you want to refer to him, he was one of
(00:21):
the first people when I moved to town, and that
feels like ages ago, but also feels like yesterday to go, oh,
you're gonna have some trouble here because you're different. But
he's also way different too, and that's how he knew that.
So I always appreciate him because I didn't know who
to trust. I didn't know who liked me, who was
trying to get me fire to But I have a
long relationship with SPO. It was one of those where
there be times wouldn't talk for a year, but then
we'd go back and you just feel like you never
(00:43):
left off. But he is retiring after a great, great career,
so I really enjoyed the talk. But also at the
end when he starts to break down each of the
artists that he signed, really cool, so many good stories
and then he talks about when he was starstruck. That's
really cool. Who he went up to a restaurant randomly.
I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it, mind blown.
(01:04):
So it's John Esposito. I think you'll like it. I
liked it, but also I like him. This is episode
three seventy seven of the Bobby Cast. Thank you for listening.
Here we go. I was talking to Brett, who was
one of my dearest, lifelong friends. Now I want to
say lifelong, one of my dearest friends in this stage
of my life. He feels that, Yeah, that's like he's
like my guy, right, he's uh, he's sad. Like as
(01:25):
close as Brett and I are. You guys haven't much
stronger longer. Uh. Your relationship has been very mentor mentee
like you found and made him and he trusted you.
You know, he's he's sad. You know I'm sad. Well,
I appreciate that. On on you saying that, I'll tell
(01:46):
you what it's It's pretty crazy. I've been reflecting a
lot because my last day in my office is going
to be on Friday, and you've not been to my
office us, but you've heard about my office kind of
play and it's and it's a museum and it's it's
my life. You know. You can see the Sinatra rat
(02:09):
pack wall, the Springsteen wall, the wall with all the
plaques of what we've accomplished during these thirteen plus years
down here, um, and many other things that are very
intriguing to me. I kind of wish I had made
the decision and announced it a week before I left,
(02:30):
because the number of conversations I've had to have has
has It's going to be cathartic when it happens, but
I needed to happen actually because I got to move on.
I made the decision. I have accomplished what I wanted
to accomplish. I was asked to come down and fix
a record label that was moribund and UM, and I'm
very proud of what we've done and part of the
(02:53):
emotion that runs through it, and there's there's much, you know.
And tonight they're having an for me at the Hall
of Fame where there will be some speeches and you know,
I'm going to probably h do a lot of crying
because I'm an emotional guy. But Blake and and Brett
are going to fit to the top of the emotion
(03:14):
because there's Blake Shelton, who was getting ready to get
dropped at Warner, who you know, life changed for him.
And Brett was the first guy I signed. And when
I met Brett, I knew there was a brotherhood there that,
you know, if I were lucky enough that that bet
was right, we could have a long fun ride together.
(03:35):
But experienced some things together, and I'm sure he's shared
with you. He's come up, stayed at my Nantucket house
and gone fishing, and we've we've done many things together.
I don't feel I ever have a problem separating work
from play. If I have to give him a hard conversation,
I can do it because he knows it's all in love,
(03:57):
you know. But I also prefer that I play, you know,
because he's one of the dearest people to me in
the world. He and I both came upon, for instance,
meditation at the same time for different reasons, from different motivations. Somebody,
a doctor I have tendatus, told me I should meditate.
(04:18):
I'm thinking the head of Vanderbilt's tell me I should meditate,
and it will help the ringing in my ear that
legitimizes it. So let me try. You know, Brent for
um the various reasons of helping his mental health, but
the number of times we've talked about it and how
important it is as part of our life. You know,
(04:38):
when you have that kind of loving relationship with an
artist and you can dive deep, it makes it far
more fulfilling relationships. They're a big part of why people
love you. What you've been able to do professionally is
why people respect you. In that combination rare you have
and I just will tell him the version my story
(05:00):
with you. Still after I've been here almost ten years now,
I've only ever been to dinner with one executive in
the history of my life, and it's you, and we
would you know before COVID. We and it's hard, but
we tried. We try to go once a year, or
we go every ten months or then a year and
three months. But and it's hard to see people, especially
when you're executive of your stature and I'm traveling a lot.
(05:24):
But we we made it a priority. And I didn't
get anything from it professionally, and you didn't get anything
from it professionally, But there's always an affinity that I
had for you because when I moved here. You had
a wing, and I wouldn't say you took me under it,
because it wasn't only I needed to live under. But
you had a wing, and you said, Hey, I know
(05:44):
what it's like to come here where people look at
you like you're different, and because you are, but also
you came here because you know that you could provide value.
And I just remember those early talks because your experiences
before you came to country, you had done a little
to everything. And I'm so grateful for that relationship me too,
(06:04):
and I appreciate that, you know. I remember very specifically
we were out at the Oklahoma benefit event for raising
money for the tornado that it blown through Blake and
re but yeah, yeah, and I walked up to you,
you know, and it's just kind of how I rolled,
and I said, I'm really proud of you, and I'm
rooting for you. I want you to know that, you know,
(06:25):
and sometimes let's get together. And I'm probably the worst
promo person in the world because I never want to
ask for the order. I just want to talk to
people and talk about music. And so the dinners you
and I had um at that special little table at
Giovanni's there's a plug for you guys. Um um. We
never asked each other for anything. It wasn't work. It
(06:48):
wasn't work. We are sharing humanity. Yeah, well, I I
value that. I will always value that. And that's why
I it's it's a sadness, not that you're or moving away,
but that there's not somebody that's running that that I like.
I feel like if I need to go, hey, like Tyson,
(07:10):
can I tell you something? Can I have this talk
with you? This happened to me, this happened to an artist.
You know, I don't like this that's leaving. And not
that I can't form that eventually, but I felt like
we had a really strong bond there and I appreciate
and hopefully it continues. I'm not leaving Nashville, and I
haven't figured. I'm just saying I'm not. I don't want
to get weaky the whole time. God bless you. Why
(07:33):
you started in two thousand nine, I think when I
look back at it, and yeah, here and their label
has grown like four times the size that it was
that when when you got here? What do you think?
And this is a you question, but it's also a
question because we have a lot of new artists, and
we have a lot of people in the music business
of country country music that are early agents, early record
(07:56):
people that listen to this. Why do you think you
were able to do the like? What did you bring?
What vision did you have to go? I can go
do this. I'm not from there exactly, but I can
foresee how we can make changes. I do believe that
I never came here with the notion that I knew anything,
(08:16):
and I wanted people to know that. Obviously, I knew
something about how the music business worked. I'd worked at
Island def Jam, I'd worked at PolyGram, I had worked
running a distribution company. I knew a lot of stuff.
But the last thing they needed is the distribution guy
from New York City to come down here and pretend
he could teach them anything. So I just listened. But
(08:39):
the one thing I wanted everyone to be clear on
is I'm willing to outwork anybody, and I love music
on a level that's almost um unhealthy. What did they
see in you just to to want you to do it? Well?
There's one thing that I heard a lot um in
the beginning, and I hear it occasionally is the town
(09:02):
and they kind of referred to it as the town.
It is a unique community of music, this Nashville thing
that we work in. UM wanted Warner to come back
to life. It was not good for the town that
they didn't have a strong Warner UM. An artist manager
didn't want to have one less door to knock on
because it wasn't in good shape. So if I could
(09:25):
help be part of bringing Warner UH to a life
where we could break artists, it gave optionality to everybody
through the ecosystem. The publishers they wanted It's like an economy, right,
you bring a big a store, let's say a local store,
but then it's a big a lot of jobs, and
those jobs people can buy other stuff. So they needed
to help that the music economy was. They wanted more
(09:48):
fueling and they thought you could do it. And I'm
sure some of them selfishly thought, well, they'll negotiate better
deals because somebody else is hopping in the fray and
offering a number or a term or whatever. But at
the end of the day, I think what happened fairly
quickly was people realized, God, this guy is relentless. You know, UM,
(10:08):
I gotta hang with him. I gotta learn more about him.
And I wasn't trying to do anything but be myself.
If if I've had success in forty five years of
running businesses, it's because people I want to hop on
that train with me, because I'm a I'm a cheerleader
on a profound level, you know, and it's it's sincere.
(10:28):
And because I could admit to them I couldn't name
ten artists on the top fifty chart when I got here.
I really, you know, I said to the folks in
New York, I know how to run businesses, but I'm
going to have to learn all this stuff. You sure
that I'm the guy? Yeah, you get down there and
do that. Well, yeah, you'd find people. Um, Mike Dungan
(10:49):
wanted to help me. Joe competitors wanted to help me.
It was uncanny, you know, Ultimately they wanted to be competitors.
Troy Tomlinson wanted to help me a publisher. Um, because
it my enthusiasm begot their wanting. Man, I want this
(11:10):
guy to succeed. And then some stuff happened that you know,
ingratiated me to the community. The the head of the
c m A was ousted and I was asked to
run the what do you call it? The search committee
that ultimately led to us bringing in Sarah Trey Hern.
And we did such a good job with that. God
bless you, Sarah Trey Hearn. That they asked me to
(11:31):
be the chairman of the c m A board. And
and so I'm kind of pinching myself. A kid from
punk Stani, Pennsylvania via New York City who couldn't have
named ten artists on the chart is the head of
the c m A board five years into coming down here.
I think that people know, and this is self aggrandizing,
(11:53):
but I think they know. I'm sincere. I just want
good ship to happen. We allowed to curse where do
you want? Okay, that's the rules. Since the car's words
are okay, I'm closing my speech tonight. I'll give you
a preview. Is that what you have there? Your speech?
You you just know this is just some notes in
case I forgot who's signed to my label. That's funny, uh,
(12:17):
But by speech tonight to close this Hall of Fame event,
says you know. But when all is said and done,
you know, while I'd love to give you a great advice,
the only right, real advice I can give you is
signed great and our people and get the fucking record played. Yeah,
I mean it's a two B. If you can do that,
everything else just kind of falls in and solve every
(12:37):
problem in the world with three minutes and thirty seconds
of magic. Whenever you talk about magic, and I say,
what magic comes to mind? And that's such a vague question.
But the three minutes and thirty seconds can be any
song that you as a head believed in quickly and
said that's it. Because again, you're a player. People to
know this too. You're when you love music. It's not
(12:58):
just listening like you are musical in every way. You're
not torious. People come and play with you in your office,
like after the CMA. Sorry, what what's the magic for
you that when you think that song was magic? Immediately, well,
I can tell you a few pop to my head
when you say that. And then I want to go
back to a little Blake Shelton story. But I remember
(13:18):
when Blake was second guessing himself, he already had number
one records and thinking, well, maybe they don't care about
me anymore. And I went to a dinner with him
and Gwen Um and you know. We both were telling him,
you know, get over that. You know people want you,
(13:40):
and he said, well, I got something booked for the
studio on Monday. I don't know. I just don't know,
you know anyhow, And on Thursday Walks a song called
God's Country. As soon as we heard the demo, Blake
sends me the most hilarious texts in the world, many
of which I couldn't uh but anybody ever see. Um,
(14:04):
But it was you know, I actually wish I could
find that one right now and share it with you,
but it would be something along the lines of ESPO.
I think I just found money, real money. And I said, okay, Scott,
send me this song. And I hear the demo of
of God's Country. There's an artist on Thursday morning, not
(14:27):
sure he wants to go to the studio, who puts
out the biggest song of his career that it's recorded
three days later, and you knew the magic of that song,
and you knew that he was going to deliver it.
I felt the same thing, um a lot when I
heard a demo which my buddy Dan Smires is still
piste off at me about of from the ground up,
(14:48):
and it was with a little drum machine and an
acoustic guitar, and you just knew that song was gonna
change people's lives. It such a resonance, such a um,
such a such an amazing message in it. I started
playing it for a few people who came in the office,
and the word got back to him, and he says,
don't you ever do that again? You know, he's he's
(15:09):
one of these the finished product only guys. He you know,
we're Smiers is a club super close to us, and
Caitlin and Abbey are really great friends. And Dan is
no c d guying myself everything, it's got to be
in the exact order. He's a he's a perfectionist um.
And I was telling him that you guys did such
(15:32):
a good job yourself, your team, Dan and Shay from
that song, because that was a graduation for them, whenever
you guys did for the ground up. Because I remember
the I still remember the visuals, and I see visuals
of everything all the time. I'm constantly inundated with new music,
new clips, new content, what about this, what about I
remember what you guys did and how you built the
that like the church, that all of it, all the
aesthetic for that song. You graduated them at that point
(15:55):
because you believed in that song so much, and so
as you say that, that to me was a big
point of Dan and Jay's career because they had they
did the work, and you guys believed in it so
much that you pushed it and it was massive and
it led them to the next graduation step. You've gotta
be proud of those guys. I am. I'll tell you
if anny story about Dan and Shaye. I was riding
(16:16):
to a studio to meet Jay Joyce, a producer of
of Very Much Notoriety here in town, and on the
way Ben Vaughan, who runs the Warner publishing company Warner Chapel, said,
I got this new song from this duo called ragtop Red.
(16:37):
You've gotta listen to it, and on comes UM nineteen.
You and me, I think it's damn near the finished product.
We ended up putting out. I said, ragtop Red, what's that?
He goes, You just got to meet these guys. So
the next day I had Dan and Shay in my
office and you know, you you do these auditions and
(16:59):
you think they're gonna lie about forty five minutes. There
are some you wish were over in ten minutes, but
you still have to be courteous, right. I never wanted
anybody they got their final moment to get there in
front of the head of a label. You know. Well,
after about ten songs, I'm looking over at Scott Hendricks,
our ahead of eight, R, A and R at the
time and ultimately the producer of eighty number one records
(17:21):
in this format, and I'm like nodding. He's giving me
a little nod, but you know, we've never done this before,
and I'm like on my fifth nod, and I finally said,
you guys are signing to Warner today. You're not leaving
until you're signing to Warner. Okay. I went over and
I locked the door, and I said, what do you
want to drink? It turned into six hours in my office,
(17:43):
them playing one smash after another, and then I realized
they didn't have a pot to piston. So I called
up my wife and said, Sean, tell but you please
cook dinner for them. Cook dinner for them five nights
in a row over in that Bell meat house, and
just said, I'm telling you I'm not letting you go
on too. You become Warner brothers artists here and you
(18:04):
know that thankfully it worked out. What about ragtop Red?
How did you convince them to lose? Oh yeah, I
forgot that part of the Well. Yeah, I mean a
very good name, you know. And it also doesn't represent
them top Bread, it didn't walot so too funny pieces
in this vignette. I have a Steeler's wall in my
(18:26):
office because I grew up in the Pittsburgh area, and
Dan Smiers walks right up to and stairs at it,
and I said, you're not from Cleveland, are you? No? No,
I'm from Pittsburgh. I'm thinking good, I got one. I
got one here. Hey, guys, But about that name? And
without mr a beat, they said, oh, we hate that name.
We dropped it. We're Dan in Shay And I thought,
(18:48):
I don't have to have that. Goddamn but that's funny.
So that was it. That was what we already thought it.
We're just um. Whenever it came to the branding of
those guys, that and that cross, that whatever that is, like,
that's what I think of when I think of them.
That decision obviously had to be okayed by you as well,
(19:11):
because it's Dan and shake. Even that little thing that
is so branded, is so important. Do you remember when
you get settled on that even well you do. I'm
you'll laugh as I say this. We love those guys.
There are certain things you just don't argue with. So
it was them that was that, Yeah, it's good, it's good,
it works if it makes you feel good, you know, um,
(19:34):
and you know we It probably created a little confusion
in the early days in terms of what is it?
Is it Dan plus you know, yeah, you get a
couple of hit records, people forget yeah exactly, and they
learn it. They forget that they were confused, and they
learn it forever. That's right. Um. I remember talking to
(19:58):
John Peaks a little bit when I first came to town,
who was always super nice to me, who another who
was a guy by the way, didn't go to dinner
with him, and he's not a record executive, but he
was a guy to whom gonna pull me aside and
was like, yeah, you're different like me, and it ain't
gonna be easy for people like you. And here's some
stuff that I've been through. And again, I was so
(20:20):
appreciative to that. And I never listen to music with
people because one it's awkward to just nod your head
and be like, yeah, I could. You always have to
act like you like it even if you don't. But
he played me this artist and he said, you know,
we're not really doing much with her now, but we
really believe in her and there's gonna be some There's
gonna be something here when we figure out exactly how
to do it, because what it is is awesome. And
(20:40):
he played me Ashley McBride because she's from Arkansas like myself,
and he kind of used that as a conduit to
get to playing the music. And what you guys have
been able to do with Ashley it feels very strategically
awesomely non traditional. How you made her a star and
to see her be a superstar now is her talent,
(21:04):
but also you your talent. You guys this talent. To
sign Ashley McBride and have a vision for her, I
imagine there was I don't know what were there a
lot of meetings like what kind of artists do we
want her to be even though she already knows who
she is. No meetings to have that discussion. Um. I
saw actually maybe six years before we signed her, and
(21:26):
there was no doubt she was incredibly talented, but um
M not ready and she admits that too. Why not
What does that mean? Not ready? Um? Green The songs
weren't captivating, Um the performance was you could tell, you
know that she could sing. She might have been over
(21:46):
singing some of it. You know, you're young, you're trying
to impress and and god, I really just can't um.
Even though I play guitar and I played drums and
I play in bands, I haven't had audition to audition
in in front of a bunch of wankers from this business.
(22:07):
So I can only imagine how people can exaggerate to
a point where it's kind of distracting. But then I
saw her about three months before we signed her, and
I was like, uh, we we have to do this.
And Chris Lacy, the now co president of our label
(22:29):
and the head of A and R, was in agreement.
And then everybody wanted to sign her. And I gotta
tell you, um, um, I think part of why she
ended up with us is because she knew we weren't
going to ask her to do anything but be yourself.
I think we have a great reputation in that regard. Um.
I hear, I hear horror stories of people who actually
(22:51):
go and mix records for artists that they the artists
didn't even know they were doing. It's like, are you
kidding me? I'd fire me if if that ever happened,
but I'll never forget for the rest of my life. Um,
this will be self aggrandizing comment eight. Probably Um, everybody's
trying to sign her and John Pets, who I really love.
(23:14):
That guy is the real deal. He's he's the smartest
um dude, you know, and creative and and willing to
go on non traditional paths with all the artists on
as roster. He calls me up. I'm in Nantucket. He says,
I've never done this before, but I want you to
agree to something. And I said, what's that. He goes,
(23:38):
Ashley only wants to be with you. Well, you just
promise me you'll give us a fair deal. She doesn't
want to take another meeting with another record label. She's
found her home and she's sick of this game, and
can we just shake that. We're going to work out
terms everybody will be happy with. And I said, I've
never done that before either, But yes, I knew she
would be that important, you know. And I think that
(24:01):
one of the great things about what we've been able
to do. Part of it's probably accidental because I didn't
know about country music. Our roster is very diverse because
it's filled with people that go from Ingrid Andrew's, which
you wouldn't necessarily think why would you sign her to
a country label, right, or Dan and Shay. They were
(24:23):
pretty pops out, you know, um were they are, Um
they can be um um. Ashley so traditional and there
was nothing that we had in the twelve songs that
were album one that we thought no brainer to get
played on country radio. But boy, once people got to
(24:44):
hear her and got to experience it live, it was
going to become a thing. And we have to have
the patients. Now with that comes you have to have
Blake Shelton's and Kenny Chesney's and Dan and Shays and
Brett eld Region others producing millions. For me, the joy
is the success they can all have. But getting to
(25:04):
play in sandboxes with people like Abrianna right and know
that you can be changing lives, you know, by taking
a risk on somebody who skirts the edge of whatever
people might call country music, but it's important music. We
just signed a new artist named Jordan Shellhart. I can't
wait for the world to hear her. And you know
(25:25):
it's Joni Mitchell meets uh um Um. I don't know
who the hell house, but it is so refreshing distinctive.
It sounds so good when you listen to it, but
if you dive in the lyrics, you go, oh my god,
she's talking about subject matters that people you know, they'll
misinterpret the song and then they'll eventually you know, this
(25:48):
is really odd, but I'm on my fourth Steely Dan book.
Um book, Yeah, wow, you're that and a Steely Dan
Oh yeah. It started with I wanted to know who
played guitar on every damn record and their notorious for things.
This may bore your country listeners completely, but they would
get the best studio musicians in in the world to
(26:11):
come in, and the musicians couldn't find out if they
made the record until the record was released because there
were twenty five guitars who came in to play the
solo one peg. You know. Money Out started with that
sort of obsession, but it became they purposely wrote words
that nobody could ever literally um figure out. It was
(26:35):
all jokes to them about their neurosis, etcetera. So you
listen in Their Their their Thing, Donald and Walder talk
about we wanted to be very pleasant sounding music that
you didn't have to scratch the surface to figure out
what Ricky don't Lose that number actually meant because it
just sounded good and you humme it, you know, and
(26:55):
there's something very intriguing about that. You know. Jordan's Shellhart
she may she she'd appreciate that reference. I think Arihanna,
if you listen to the lyrics of Arianna as a narcissist,
how the hell did a seventeen year old come up
with that lyric? You know? So part of this joy
of my my tenure down here has been that if
(27:19):
we had enough people paying the bills, I could play
in some different sandboxes and it will all go back
to Ashley McBride and now here we have Lindyville, which
is one of the most important and magic records, you know,
And to know I was associated with that. Ashley said
to me once when we were, you know, in the
signing process. She goes, you know, I like you because
(27:42):
you're always in the back of the room and your
head's always Bob you're actually paying attention. My wife came
to me. COVID kind of blurs the years, and there's
a kid, his man now, but from like two towns
over from where she grew up, and she's gay. He's like,
he's awesome. And she would listen to him on her phone,
(28:04):
mostly on her phone, especially at first on TikTok, and
she'd play songs and we'd be in the car and
we're all bluetoothed up for everything, and she would play him,
just playing on on TikTok over and over again. And
she's in a lot of ways, she's become my compass
on what is happening right this second, because it's a
few layers to get to me, and I don't like
that sometimes, but it is the house that's been built
(28:26):
at this point. But she just gethers. Guys. He's like, yeah,
she grew up around me. It doesn't live in Nashville.
It's Zac Brian. And she just she was on and
on to the point where I was just getting annoyed,
and I was like, I don't want to listen to
Zack Brian because you love him so much you won't
stop playing him all the time. But then I grew
again a real love for stylistically like that's my jam.
I love slow, emotional and I can hear the lyrics,
(28:49):
feel my version of what he's singing. And I became
a massive fan without being very educated on him, just
because I love the music sonically. I got to the
point where I was like, man, I can't get enough
now Zach Brian is with you? Guys, when you sign
somebody that has and they'll last a couple of years,
that has grown so much because of their virility, like TikTok,
(29:10):
they blow up? Is that a whole different negotiation? How
did that come together? Are these artists that blow up?
Or is it different to negotiate with them than someone
who you just know is going to be good playing
a showcase somewhere? Well? I dare say, um as a
generalization which I tend to hate. Um. The rules of
engagement have changed so very much in a very short
(29:31):
period of time. UM, I would say, And they're changing ever,
um right now, right before us, but maybe go back
two years. Uh it was for the first bunch of
years before that. Hey, I only want to sign with
(29:54):
you if you tell me when the radio ad date
is now it is tell me how you're going to
bring the story of my artist to the world. Um,
you know, I dare say and I tell you, Buddy
Rod Phillips this all the time. Radio, by getting records
to take a year to get up the chart is
(30:16):
hurting itself because people need discovery. But it's forced a
lot of looking at and it's not just streaming, although
streaming is a lot of fun when when you happen
to get that joy early on, but just ways to
get a story told through various social media places and
(30:37):
hopefully the result of getting some streaming um early on
has has become the day you know, and I swear
to God, I don't go after that in the name
of being in lieu of radio, because the big win
is when you get to the top twenty at radio
(30:59):
and everything's um, you know, it tends to be smoking
along in terms of how much consumption. There is a
word that Kenny Chesney hates. I think he's kind of
come around to understand that that is some weird part
of our vernacular. Now I kind of hate it too.
I hate product, you know, I never call it a product.
(31:19):
But anyhow, um, my long winded way of saying so,
now artists are coming in and with a story like
Zach Bryan, they have negotiating power that's very different than
the one who's begging you to come see them in
the club. And they haven't built a following, you know,
And do I think that will become more mainstay? Yeah?
(31:43):
Do I think it becomes. It goes from probably five
percent of what gets signed to no, but it's gonna
be probably closer to thirty or you know, there's still
going to be things like hey, um Bailey Zimmerman, who
I loved. When you know, folks, Bobby will just every
once in a while text me and say, hey, I
(32:06):
just met with this artist. I think they're the real deal, right,
question mark? Because I know that you will even if
they're your person, I know that you'll still be honest
with me and go like they haven't they have the
real potential to be the real deal. Or you'll go like, yep,
they sure are. You know you'll be honest with me,
And that's what I said, I always will. And I
(32:27):
was thinking to myself, well, here's a guy working on
a pipeline two years ago, never picked up a guitar
and sang boy. He has a way of connecting with people. Um.
He was kind of in between the Zach Brian building
an audience over a period of time and um and
and the artist who you know as one song and
(32:49):
you're hoping you you bet on the right song. But
I do think that we're going to get more and
more people trying to create a story that becomes compelling.
It makes it here for the manager and lawyers when
they come knock on our door, you know. And you know,
I have a I don't mind being held up if
I believe there's a long term there. I was talking
(33:12):
to Rod. I kind of cornered him on the air.
I later apologized to him because I didn't mean to
do it, but if we're on and I'm doing the show,
I just follow instinct and then apologize Later's if we're live,
you know that's a deal. And he was walking behind
and see him and I say, hey, Rod. I talked
to him about a couple of things, and I say, hey,
why what's the deal with Zach Bryan. Why are we
not playing him more? Like I We can't get enough?
(33:32):
I said, And I understand it's different. I want a
national syndicated show. They don't just go Willy nillion throw
songs into that, but I'm talking about just generally, like
why aren't we and he goes, listen, I love them too.
It's doesn't sound like what everything else sounds. So we're
like playing in certain places to make sure. And I'm
just like, can't you just go what's awesome and and
do it? And I kind of got him into trouble
(33:54):
because the people started attacking him, which I didn't mean
to do, but I was just saying how I felt,
and he was like, don't apologize. You do what you do.
That's what you do on the air, and I'll do
and I'm I'm cool to have to stand by something
even if I personally don't agree with this is what
he said. He goes, I love Zach Bryan. I would
play him on every station all the time. But if
I do that, and he went down this executive talk
(34:16):
that he has to report to his ball right. So
that being said, did that ever get back to that
I was fighting with Rod about Zach Bryan on their
Uh no, the the that's probably because I'm too distracted
in life period um um. But I understand the notion.
This is an odd retort or response to your question.
(34:38):
I was with a radio programmer in Pittsburgh. I happen
to go to Pittsburgh a lot because I I like
my hometown. And he goes, are you guys releasing Zach
Brian now to purposely piss all of us people off
who have been playing him for months? And now we
played him too many times? And I said, only if
(34:58):
we were that smart, you know. No, we we didn't
know whether anybody would ever want it. And then we
kept seeing you all who were playing this in these
because we were playing in the morning show. I was
playing them in the morning and you'd get spins in
these I mean streams in these markets that were off
the hook, and it was like, okay, even us geniuses
should not overthink this and just put the damn record
(35:21):
out and look what it's doing. It's been the top
stream song in country music. I think it's in its
twelfth week or something like that, and it's probably in
the radio chart somewhere in the high twenties. I think
is where we've reached. It's starting to now it starting
to really have some some balls, you know, and as
far as people have to pay attention to it, because
(35:42):
it's climbing so high, that it says, hello, I'm here,
you'd play me, because if you don't, you're real. You're real, idiot.
What do you do now? Like you finished your last
day on Friday? Like what? Because I think for the
first month I would do I say, I don't stop working,
(36:03):
but I think when I finally stop, I'm not doing
anything for a month. I'm just gonna lay. I think
that my family's placing bets on my ability to do that.
The advice I'm getting from anybody of you know, deep
consequence in my life, which is mostly my family and
um a couple of other people who have been with
(36:25):
me for this long ride is shutdown. In January. You're
gonna have so many people asking you to do something.
The stupidest thing you could do is think you should
go do something. Find out what it's like to not
have to make a decision every five minutes. Right, And
I'm going to try my damnedest, I really am. I
have a list of things that I'll do, um well,
(36:48):
that I'm intending to do. The book is turning into
two books. Um Um. Cooking class, I'm want to go
to the culinary Institute. I'm a really good cook, but
I'm sure, I've been slicing some vegetables incorrectly for all
my life. Are you going to cooking classical school? Because
it sounds like that's school school. Um. I'm going to
(37:10):
pick my guitar up more because boy, when I do
it fulfills me. And then I get busy again and
I lose my callouses and all that. But I just
want to see it. For the month of January, I
can sit still. I want to meditate more during the day.
I want to do these sorts of things. I made
the decision to asked to be relieved with me creating
(37:35):
the succession plan of I promoted four years ago. The
two people who will be the co presidents of the label,
Ben klined to GM and Chris Lacity in our with
the purpose that it gave me an option. But I
thought to myself, and this may sound horrible, to screw it,
(37:55):
you know, I am what I am. I was asked
to come and take a a label that used to
be called the artist Protection Program by everybody in town
because if we got signed at Warner, you were never
seen again. Um to um a very productive label. We've
actually grown almost six times. That's just since I said
(38:18):
for it's going two more times, you know, and and
and I'm getting to ride out on a nice high.
But I've been sitting in these marketing meetings on Wednesday
and feeling like it feels like groundhog Day. I'm sorry.
It was one thing when you had to add a
second artist to the Blake Shelton thing we had going on.
(38:41):
And this is not an indictment of Warner. This is
the nature of the music business. Suddenly you find out
you have thirty five artists. And I'm really good at
hand holding individual artist. It gets harder for me to
hear the social media stats on the fifth artist on
the thing. Let alone get to the twelfth artist and
all that. So let the kids do that. I'll find
(39:03):
a way to be involved. My if I have a gift,
I'm an artist whisperer, and I love it. I love
that they trust me. I love that I have some
many years of experience where I can offer sage advice.
And one of them will be with Brett Aldridge, one
of my dearest friends on the planet Earth. You know, um, um,
(39:24):
you know, and we talk about that openly. I just
I'm not looking for compensation. I'm looking for the joy
of knowing that I could help guide the handful of
people artists along in a meaningful way. And then I
know it's just going to unveil itself to me, that
somebody's gonna say, what you do this with me or that?
(39:46):
Because I have to be busy, because I really just
don't sit still well, and that's my entire life. Let's
do personally and professionally. Personally, the best decision you ever
made marrying Sean Tell, actually, oh my kids they're not whatever.
Um uh, you know, deciding that the first one wasn't working,
(40:09):
and then being brave enough at the time of forty
nine years old to say, well, whatever, I know, I'm
not happy. I gotta go find some happiness somewhere. And accidentally,
two months later, somebody said, we got a seat filler
for you at the Grammys, and it was Chantelle Baine,
who is now eighteen years with me in fifteen years
of marriage. And I've never been fucking happier in my life.
(40:32):
So that was the best personal decision, professionally, best decision
you ever made. Um. Announcing to a group of people
in a building on twenty Music Square East in Nashville
that we're going to build the building around Blake Shelton.
And I don't care how bad things are going for
(40:53):
Blake Shelton. We got to prove to the town that
if we could break Blake Shelton to big time, um um,
people will believe in us, and more managers and artists
and lawyers will knock on our door. Because nobody was
coming to the Warner Building. And I looked at Blake
in the I after he played the Grand Old Opera.
(41:14):
He's told this story a couple of times, and I said, dude,
I'm about to build the building around you. You better
work as hard as I do. Not that I was
worried about it, but I had to make some sort
of statement. Mind you up, I was looking like this
because he's six five and I'm squeezing out almost six three.
He looks so much bigger than me. And picture he
(41:35):
also had big boots. He would like this morning, he's
like up six five, and I'm like, yeah, but you're
like six seven and a half when you were big.
That's fair enough. But I think that you know that
that was probably it. Although I will tell you this
not that you need me to talk anymore, but what
led to me coming down here I was running. I
was the president of WE, a distribution company for Warner
(41:58):
The letters stood for Warner Elector A good Warner Electra Atlantic,
and I had helped take it out of the ashes
into a phoenix rising, and about seven and a half
years into it, I swear to God this is true.
I went down to my boss Lee or Cohen were
the characters of all characters and the history of the
(42:18):
music business, and I said, I've succession planned. I'm bored shitless,
promote me or fire me. I can't do this anymore.
He started smiling, told me to walk down the hall
to Edgar Brafman's office. Edgar was the chairman. He's smiling.
I'm thinking I just got set up for something. The
next day they asked me to move to Nashville and
run this. That's how it happened. Yeah I did. I mean,
(42:44):
truth be told. I had just signed a new three
year deal, so if they fired me, I was going
to have a little money to figure it out. But
I just knew when I was bored, I couldn't do
it anymore. You know. It's kind of like what I'm
going through now. I need a new chapter. Boy. In
the hindsight, it still was pretty silly of me to
just I feel like any advice I ever give anybody,
(43:08):
if it's a good advice, it's because I've done it
and messed up. I've done it and had to struggle.
That's where I have gained my knowledge because it just
comes to me easy, which is very few things. I
don't if I can pass anything along because it was
just natural. So a lot of anything that I can
share to people is through hard work or sacrifice or
doing it wrong. So I say that in the vein
(43:28):
of what professionally was your worst decision, where it was
a bad decision, but you know now because it happened
to you, it made you smarter or you're able to
help others because of what happened. That's a great one
right there. I've made a couple of I have a thing.
There's probably a better one than this, but sitting on
my emporium shelf of shelf, one of my shelves of
(43:51):
all this junk in my office is this thing called
Furry Creatures. And it's a um um probably eight or
nine inch hall um clay model of something where somebody
came to me in my old job and said we
can bring you two million dollars a year in um
new revenue, and it can build to this. All you
(44:14):
have to do is make this investment. And I went
to the chairman of the company and I said, listen,
I know this is not um my purview, but should
I take a chance. And he goes, listen, you've been
good so far. Why don't you take a chance? While
we lost about four million dollars in the process. And
I leave that thing sitting on my shelf to remind
myself that I was in the music business. What did
(44:37):
I think I needed to be in some weird video
game that I do nothing about business? But I'm sure,
I'm sure I've done stupider things than that. Smash that thing. Oh,
good for you for keeping it and letting that be
a reminder of your growth. That's funny. Bad When you
(45:03):
were a kid, who was your hero? Dean Martin was
probably one of my real heroes because he had such
a swagger about him, and he had that TV show
with the gold Diggers, which you know, politically correct wouldn't
be allowed today, but he'd sit there on a stool.
Everybody loves some of us sometime, Well, these blondes are
(45:26):
walking around in skimpy dressed and I thought, God, someday
I just want to sing and have them love me
like that, you know. Uh. My dad though, really, when
all of a sudden done my you know, I'm I
think it's the Martin or Mark Twain line that the
older I got, the smarter my father got. My father
and I. I was one of six, I was the
(45:48):
black sheep, always in trouble, always in trouble, always stretching
the boundaries. I've broken nearly every bone in my body.
I have stitches everywhere in this body of mine, just
from falling again, beat up or what No, just climbing
a tree and the tree broke and I fell out
and there's a compound fracture of that leg, you know,
and just just doing ship. And my father was always
(46:13):
you know, grumpy, mad at me, But ultimately we became
best friends when I was about twenty because he realized
I just wanted to adventure and that it was going
to serve me well. And you know, all my siblings
that just fine. I ended up having the closest relationship
with my dad because we would end up getting involved
(46:35):
in conversations about pretty heavy things, you know, and my
dad was typical World War Two veteran and orphan who
you know, had to make his own way in life.
And he's my hero. My leadership style is one my
father's influence. I could watch him walk into a room
of angry people and diffuse it by asking the unquestioned
(47:01):
that made them all have to shut up because they
didn't even know what they were fighting about. You know,
people get all rebbed up. And I thought, man, that
guy just listens, He lets everybody spew. And then you
asked the one, you know, checkmate. Thing. You know, I
was talking with somebody yesterday about um, and it's probably
(47:22):
all the emotional stuff related to this h cathartic moment
that that is going on to be moving on to
some next stage. When my father died, Um, there was
a road between Princeton, New Jersey, and where I had
a farmhouse out in the country. I used to commute
into New York on the train that I called my
(47:44):
father every day on this one road, and it was
about a three mile stretch of road and just so
we could say hey, you know, and ask each other
a couple of questions. When he died, I could not
ride on that road anymore. Because all I would do
is ball every time I was on that route. I've
gone back since just to see if I still have
and I do the emotion. You know, I don't live
(48:07):
there now twenty years, but god, it just affected me
because that memory is so locked in, and you know,
I was happy, and in so far as when my
dad died, I didn't end up being one of those
guys going I wish I had had a relationship. You know,
there was there was no no time lost or whatever
(48:31):
the right expression is. Thanks for sharing that story. That
is like, I'm jealous of that story in a lot
of ways. And it sounds like a dad was a
important part of who you are and even who you
who you are and who you are even today, because
you say your managerial, your leadership style comes directly from him. Um.
(48:52):
When did you notice your your dad's son early in
your career or did it take a while before you
started to go, oh, I am kind of inadvertently my
dad as I'm managing folks. That's a great question. If
I don't romanticize it, it probably was sometime in my
my twenties. Um, Um, just because I found myself in
(49:16):
a room full of people saying something that could you know,
shut the room down. Not with the intention of shut up,
but like, that's crazy that you did that. And then
I go, God, that's what he used to do. That's
what I used to as a kid watch him do
with people. And you know, there's this other part. My
father would never let my head get big. He he
(49:38):
loved my success, but he would just make sure. You know,
I remember every once in a while I would try
to explain why I was doing well. He says, stop
the ship. You start explaining why you're doing well, you're
going to ruin it. Just be yourself, It'll it'll be okay.
Stop talking about yourself. You know I haven't done an
(50:01):
effective job of that. Yeah, listen, the job is to
talk about you. I'm very interested in you. Um, the
first time because and we have like five minutes left.
I want to get to a few other quick things,
but I want to do first and last, the first
time that you were genuinely starstruck, where you're like, wow,
I can not believe I'm that close to this person.
(50:21):
Um Uh, I'm sorry. There's always more than one. The
first one was when I was sitting in Chason's restaurant,
famous in U l A. Johnny Carson always used to
talk about going to Chasen's, and I was there because
I was a buyer at Macy's and the Fisher I'll
never forget it was Fisher Electronics had us out for
(50:44):
dinner and Chasen's and the cast of Dynasty was over
here and blah blah blah blah blah, and two tables
over Frank Sinatra sitting there having dinner with the Princess Caroline.
I think her name is Grace's daughter, and I don't know.
I just decided to walk over and introduce myself. And
he was gracious and I didn't take up more than
(51:06):
fifteen seconds of his time. But I couldn't be that
close to somebody who was such a hero. But I
remember my knees were shaking. You know. That's a cool story.
And the second one, I'm highly involved in environmental things,
and so I I'm on the Global Leadership Council of
(51:26):
the Natural Resources Defense Counsel in r DC. I go
to Washington and lobby senators and congressmen to get environmental
laws stiffened, and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
and I go to an event and my daughter's working
for the organization. She accidentally gets put at the front
of the ballroom and I'm at a table Warner Bot
(51:47):
a table where fifty ft back, and I noticed she's
sitting with Paul McCartney, and I'm thinking, that little bitch,
what what is going on? So at the end of
the night and the reason Paul McCartney was there is
Stella was the honoree, you know, because of her environmental
(52:12):
orientation and you know, not eating um meat or any
living thing. Anyhow, cutting to the chase we're in at
the meeting ends and there my phone's ringing and Jessica,
my daughter, Paul wants to meet you. And I said,
Paul doesn't want to meet me. No, no, no, Paul
wants to meet you. And I said, don't know, it's cool,
so we're good. Say hi to Paul for me. You know,
(52:35):
all I could imagine is walking up and being one
of the five germs on Paul McCartney. Five minutes later,
Paul wants to meet you. I said, Jessica, it's cool.
I'm good. Well, Linda Eastman's sister came back, Linden. Linda
was was Paul's wife many years who passed from cancer,
(52:57):
and said, are you coming up to meet Paul or not?
Now this is relative. I'm okay, this is serious. So
I go up and there's Paul McCartney standing nearer the exit,
but he's waiting for me, and um, he goes, hello,
John Esposito, and I said, well, hello, Paul McCartney. You
don't know anything about me, but I know a lot
(53:19):
about you. He goes, I know everything about you, and
he starts rattling off a bunch of ship that apparently
my daughter told him. And I'm sitting there thinking a
beatle has just talked to me, you know, not just
a beatle, it's Paul McCartney. And we probably talked for
a good two minutes and then I felt like, whoa,
that's royalty. Yeah that's one. Uh final three questions. Um,
(53:41):
the last time your star struck? M hmm, right, now
come on as well. You can see me anytime any day.
That ain't the same, Um, the last time I was
star struck. And this is years I've been around famous people,
(54:02):
becoming jaded in ways, and you still it could be
ten years ago, I don't know, And that's probably what
it is, um jay Z. So I'm an Island def Jam.
I'm called by Lear Cohen, I'm the GM of Island
def Jam. He tells me I need to get on
a helicopter and fly with jay Z to Albany, New York.
We're gonna help launch his new record. And I said,
(54:23):
why am I going to fly in a helicopter? The
president of def Jam, Kevin Lyles, is sick, so we
want you to do it. And I knew j had,
you know, been in some meetings with him. But I'm
gonna write a helicopter with jay Z the whole way
to Albany from there, and and it I was. I
was genuinely gob smacks, starstruck, thrilled, nicest damn guy, smart
(54:48):
as all get out. And there's a real quick story,
and I know we're running out of the time. Um,
we get done with surprising this room full of people
who are about to launch a new album. It was
a big record retailer that we needed their full support,
but they didn't know jay Z was walking into their
marketing meeting. We get done. We get in the car
to head back to the airport and Jay says, I'm hungry,
(55:11):
sees a burger King, and the he said, okay, we'll
stop at the burger King. We walk in and there's
this lovely, probably in her fifties, um African American woman
behind the counter, her back turned to us, and you
know she's filling other people's order. She turns around and
she says, what can I get? I am not seeing
(55:32):
jay Z. I am not seeing jay Z right now. No,
I'm not seeing jay Z. Pretty soon, the whole restaurants over.
Everybody's taking pictures, and he was so gracious. Okay, I'm
taking up all the time. But yeah, I still got
two things left and the site. This next one is
going to be a little quick series, so I I
went quick ones here because I have a few. But
(55:52):
I want to give you an artist that you have
on your label. You may have a personal relationship with me,
but the only I just want you to tell me
a line about them when I say her name, like
what comes up about them? For example, Charlie Worsam genius.
I feel you only want one word, well a sentence,
a genius that I wish the world would hear more from.
(56:15):
I agree with that wholeheartedly. In the world deserves to
want to hear more from they should yea, they should. Um.
Kenny Chesney man, he is a soul brother. Um. He
he rescued me from a an island and didn't even
know who the hell I was twenty years ago. I
(56:36):
don't understand. I'm at an island belong before I'm running
this record label tortola Um. The house of the people
I'm staying with was busted into by a guy out
of his mind on drugs. Um. Big Kenny, which is
who I was with, calls a Kenny on the phone
and said, Kenny, can you come over and get us?
(56:58):
We take us over to ghost van Dyke. We how
to get out of here. I have no idea who
the Kenny is. We go down to the dock and
it's pouring rain, and up comes a boat and then
comes the dinghy. I guess you call it piloted by
Kenny Chesney who's carrying the bags and the pouring rain
onto that boat. And I said, Kenny, you don't need
to do that, go come on man. And then we
(57:20):
went over to this other island and sat and just
talk music for two or three hours. And I'm thinking,
he really is he really is special, you know, And
it started a level of intense friendship that you can't
make up. You know, I'm so proud of that boy
(57:41):
that that what is it called a single Saturday Night
cut through the chase, despite how hard radio made it
for us, and who later came back and said, you
were right now. Yeah, you added thirty years or thirty
weeks to his life with that, bought him another twenty
years and put him in position to have that massive
(58:02):
duet and and then the one he has now. Um,
that's way more than a word or a sentence. But
I think Cole is the one who's next, poised for superstardom,
playing in in stadiums and able to command it one more.
And I love her Madeline Edwards, Yeah, man, you know
(58:24):
you feel it when you're in the room with her
period and you know I love her music, but I
love her spirit so much in her where she's coming from.
And we've had some you know, tearful moments. Um. Some
people know that I like scotch. I've shared some scotch
with her just because she said, how am I going
(58:44):
to be at this label and miss you having a
hand in all of this? And I said, I'm always available.
We'll go to dinner in January. You deserve it. You're special.
You're special, and you know I'll be a big cheer
leader for that gal. She deserved it. Final question, what
are you gonna miss the most? You know, I am.
(59:11):
I was asked a question, So I'm going to try
to reproduce the answer. What will you miss the least
and what will you miss the most? And I said, oddly,
the answer is the same. I will not miss going
to CRS and having lecturous old men with some hot
young girl on their arms and hand me a CD
(59:33):
and say this is my new star, you know, and thinking,
oh man, can they just leave me alone? But I'm
gonna miss walking around the streets and people looking at
me going like you could change my life. You signed
me to a record deal. You know, that's a big
that's a big deal. That was that was that was
food for the soul for all you know. I hope
(59:56):
I didn't let it go to my head, but I
sure like being able to do that and have a
number of them turn out That's what I'm going to
miss the most. Well, I respect you so much professionally, However,
that pells in comparison to the feelings that I have
accumulated for you personally. I just even if we didn't
(01:00:21):
talk for nine months, I always knew it didn't matter.
We hadn't talked for nine months. I mean, that's that's
the end of that. And it didn't It just didn't
matter what it was. I knew if I needed it,
I could call you and sometimes to be two years,
but it's it was just that I just just new,
you know, and and it's not leaving and you're not
dying and you're not moving. But I just want to
(01:00:43):
tell you this because we're kind of celebrating you. Is
I didn't have a relationship with because I purposefully fought
the idea of even knowing any executive because I just
wanted to be the guy who did my own crap.
I don't want to hear from people giving me. I
was just anti everything, um probably ignorantly a little bit,
but that's how I came into this place. And I
(01:01:03):
think it was you who kind of show me, hey,
don't be idiot, open your eyes and ears a little bit,
and you can have good people in your life. And
so that is that. That is my feeling about you personally.
It's way more personal than professional although this town is
it's gonna be different without you running that label that
I only know as a massive label. You you flipped
(01:01:23):
it by the time I got here. But I just
I just respect you, but like a value you personally.
I will treasure those words forever. I mean it, I am.
I'm insanely proud of you. I know you weren't soliciting
a compliment back but it was so fun to watch
you plow through those early days and get to the
(01:01:47):
place where you got not just respect, but you've got
all sorts of opportunities. And I just hope for you
that you can stop and smell the roses. Everyone. That's
a that's a challenge for hard chargers like us, and
you you take it to a new level. But you know, yeah,
I'll end with this. When somebody is dear to me,
(01:02:09):
as Brett Aldridge tells me how important you are to him,
you know that's vouching in a way that because he's
got a hell of a meter and I didn't need
him to do that, but boy do I love that
somebody that discerning would say you mean so much in
your relationship and that and and so I'm happy about that.
(01:02:29):
But I'm happy you came over, um and we're done.
But did you ever I'm sure there have been different times.
Did you get really pissed at me for saying something
or like just really no? Actually, if we are done,
I was so proud of you sing Oh, I've got
so much trouble for that. The people publicly that we're
ripping me, we're also privately going sorry many Yeah, it's tough,
(01:02:54):
but that's tough. Well nothing you ever did buck me out,
buddy'll take it. Hey, you man,
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, episode three seventies seven. John Esposito referred
to his es BO. He's the head of Warner Music Nashville.
Big record label, cool record label, very successful record label,
especially since he took over. You could tell from this, Mike,
I have a long relationship with ESPO. With John, however
you want to refer to him, he was one of
(00:21):
the first people when I moved to town, and that
feels like ages ago, but also feels like yesterday to go, oh,
you're gonna have some trouble here because you're different. But
he's also way different too, and that's how he knew that.
So I always appreciate him because I didn't know who
to trust. I didn't know who liked me, who was
trying to get me fire to But I have a
long relationship with SPO. It was one of those where
there be times wouldn't talk for a year, but then
we'd go back and you just feel like you never
(00:43):
left off. But he is retiring after a great, great career,
so I really enjoyed the talk. But also at the
end when he starts to break down each of the
artists that he signed, really cool, so many good stories
and then he talks about when he was starstruck. That's
really cool. Who he went up to a restaurant randomly.
I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it, mind blown.
(01:04):
So it's John Esposito. I think you'll like it. I
liked it, but also I like him. This is episode
three seventy seven of the Bobby Cast. Thank you for listening.
Here we go. I was talking to Brett, who was
one of my dearest, lifelong friends. Now I want to
say lifelong, one of my dearest friends in this stage
of my life. He feels that, Yeah, that's like he's
like my guy, right, he's uh, he's sad. Like as
(01:25):
close as Brett and I are. You guys haven't much
stronger longer. Uh. Your relationship has been very mentor mentee
like you found and made him and he trusted you.
You know, he's he's sad. You know I'm sad. Well,
I appreciate that. On on you saying that, I'll tell
(01:46):
you what it's It's pretty crazy. I've been reflecting a
lot because my last day in my office is going
to be on Friday, and you've not been to my
office us, but you've heard about my office kind of
play and it's and it's a museum and it's it's
my life. You know. You can see the Sinatra rat
(02:09):
pack wall, the Springsteen wall, the wall with all the
plaques of what we've accomplished during these thirteen plus years
down here, um, and many other things that are very
intriguing to me. I kind of wish I had made
the decision and announced it a week before I left,
(02:30):
because the number of conversations I've had to have has
has It's going to be cathartic when it happens, but
I needed to happen actually because I got to move on.
I made the decision. I have accomplished what I wanted
to accomplish. I was asked to come down and fix
a record label that was moribund and UM, and I'm
very proud of what we've done and part of the
(02:53):
emotion that runs through it, and there's there's much, you know.
And tonight they're having an for me at the Hall
of Fame where there will be some speeches and you know,
I'm going to probably h do a lot of crying
because I'm an emotional guy. But Blake and and Brett
are going to fit to the top of the emotion
(03:14):
because there's Blake Shelton, who was getting ready to get
dropped at Warner, who you know, life changed for him.
And Brett was the first guy I signed. And when
I met Brett, I knew there was a brotherhood there that,
you know, if I were lucky enough that that bet
was right, we could have a long fun ride together.
(03:35):
But experienced some things together, and I'm sure he's shared
with you. He's come up, stayed at my Nantucket house
and gone fishing, and we've we've done many things together.
I don't feel I ever have a problem separating work
from play. If I have to give him a hard conversation,
I can do it because he knows it's all in love,
(03:57):
you know. But I also prefer that I play, you know,
because he's one of the dearest people to me in
the world. He and I both came upon, for instance,
meditation at the same time for different reasons, from different motivations. Somebody,
a doctor I have tendatus, told me I should meditate.
(04:18):
I'm thinking the head of Vanderbilt's tell me I should meditate,
and it will help the ringing in my ear that
legitimizes it. So let me try. You know, Brent for
um the various reasons of helping his mental health, but
the number of times we've talked about it and how
important it is as part of our life. You know,
(04:38):
when you have that kind of loving relationship with an
artist and you can dive deep, it makes it far
more fulfilling relationships. They're a big part of why people
love you. What you've been able to do professionally is
why people respect you. In that combination rare you have
and I just will tell him the version my story
(05:00):
with you. Still after I've been here almost ten years now,
I've only ever been to dinner with one executive in
the history of my life, and it's you, and we
would you know before COVID. We and it's hard, but
we tried. We try to go once a year, or
we go every ten months or then a year and
three months. But and it's hard to see people, especially
when you're executive of your stature and I'm traveling a lot.
(05:24):
But we we made it a priority. And I didn't
get anything from it professionally, and you didn't get anything
from it professionally, But there's always an affinity that I
had for you because when I moved here. You had
a wing, and I wouldn't say you took me under it,
because it wasn't only I needed to live under. But
you had a wing, and you said, Hey, I know
(05:44):
what it's like to come here where people look at
you like you're different, and because you are, but also
you came here because you know that you could provide value.
And I just remember those early talks because your experiences
before you came to country, you had done a little
to everything. And I'm so grateful for that relationship me too,
(06:04):
and I appreciate that, you know. I remember very specifically
we were out at the Oklahoma benefit event for raising
money for the tornado that it blown through Blake and
re but yeah, yeah, and I walked up to you,
you know, and it's just kind of how I rolled,
and I said, I'm really proud of you, and I'm
rooting for you. I want you to know that, you know,
(06:25):
and sometimes let's get together. And I'm probably the worst
promo person in the world because I never want to
ask for the order. I just want to talk to
people and talk about music. And so the dinners you
and I had um at that special little table at
Giovanni's there's a plug for you guys. Um um. We
never asked each other for anything. It wasn't work. It
(06:48):
wasn't work. We are sharing humanity. Yeah, well, I I
value that. I will always value that. And that's why
I it's it's a sadness, not that you're or moving away,
but that there's not somebody that's running that that I like.
I feel like if I need to go, hey, like Tyson,
(07:10):
can I tell you something? Can I have this talk
with you? This happened to me, this happened to an artist.
You know, I don't like this that's leaving. And not
that I can't form that eventually, but I felt like
we had a really strong bond there and I appreciate
and hopefully it continues. I'm not leaving Nashville, and I
haven't figured. I'm just saying I'm not. I don't want
to get weaky the whole time. God bless you. Why
(07:33):
you started in two thousand nine, I think when I
look back at it, and yeah, here and their label
has grown like four times the size that it was
that when when you got here? What do you think?
And this is a you question, but it's also a
question because we have a lot of new artists, and
we have a lot of people in the music business
of country country music that are early agents, early record
(07:56):
people that listen to this. Why do you think you
were able to do the like? What did you bring?
What vision did you have to go? I can go
do this. I'm not from there exactly, but I can
foresee how we can make changes. I do believe that
I never came here with the notion that I knew anything,
(08:16):
and I wanted people to know that. Obviously, I knew
something about how the music business worked. I'd worked at
Island def Jam, I'd worked at PolyGram, I had worked
running a distribution company. I knew a lot of stuff.
But the last thing they needed is the distribution guy
from New York City to come down here and pretend
he could teach them anything. So I just listened. But
(08:39):
the one thing I wanted everyone to be clear on
is I'm willing to outwork anybody, and I love music
on a level that's almost um unhealthy. What did they
see in you just to to want you to do it? Well?
There's one thing that I heard a lot um in
the beginning, and I hear it occasionally is the town
(09:02):
and they kind of referred to it as the town.
It is a unique community of music, this Nashville thing
that we work in. UM wanted Warner to come back
to life. It was not good for the town that
they didn't have a strong Warner UM. An artist manager
didn't want to have one less door to knock on
because it wasn't in good shape. So if I could
(09:25):
help be part of bringing Warner UH to a life
where we could break artists, it gave optionality to everybody
through the ecosystem. The publishers they wanted It's like an economy, right,
you bring a big a store, let's say a local store,
but then it's a big a lot of jobs, and
those jobs people can buy other stuff. So they needed
to help that the music economy was. They wanted more
(09:48):
fueling and they thought you could do it. And I'm
sure some of them selfishly thought, well, they'll negotiate better
deals because somebody else is hopping in the fray and
offering a number or a term or whatever. But at
the end of the day, I think what happened fairly
quickly was people realized, God, this guy is relentless. You know, UM,
(10:08):
I gotta hang with him. I gotta learn more about him.
And I wasn't trying to do anything but be myself.
If if I've had success in forty five years of
running businesses, it's because people I want to hop on
that train with me, because I'm a I'm a cheerleader
on a profound level, you know, and it's it's sincere.
(10:28):
And because I could admit to them I couldn't name
ten artists on the top fifty chart when I got here.
I really, you know, I said to the folks in
New York, I know how to run businesses, but I'm
going to have to learn all this stuff. You sure
that I'm the guy? Yeah, you get down there and
do that. Well, yeah, you'd find people. Um, Mike Dungan
(10:49):
wanted to help me. Joe competitors wanted to help me.
It was uncanny, you know, Ultimately they wanted to be competitors.
Troy Tomlinson wanted to help me a publisher. Um, because
it my enthusiasm begot their wanting. Man, I want this
(11:10):
guy to succeed. And then some stuff happened that you know,
ingratiated me to the community. The the head of the
c m A was ousted and I was asked to
run the what do you call it? The search committee
that ultimately led to us bringing in Sarah Trey Hern.
And we did such a good job with that. God
bless you, Sarah Trey Hearn. That they asked me to
(11:31):
be the chairman of the c m A board. And
and so I'm kind of pinching myself. A kid from
punk Stani, Pennsylvania via New York City who couldn't have
named ten artists on the chart is the head of
the c m A board five years into coming down here.
I think that people know, and this is self aggrandizing,
(11:53):
but I think they know. I'm sincere. I just want
good ship to happen. We allowed to curse where do
you want? Okay, that's the rules. Since the car's words
are okay, I'm closing my speech tonight. I'll give you
a preview. Is that what you have there? Your speech?
You you just know this is just some notes in
case I forgot who's signed to my label. That's funny, uh,
(12:17):
But by speech tonight to close this Hall of Fame event,
says you know. But when all is said and done,
you know, while I'd love to give you a great advice,
the only right, real advice I can give you is
signed great and our people and get the fucking record played. Yeah,
I mean it's a two B. If you can do that,
everything else just kind of falls in and solve every
(12:37):
problem in the world with three minutes and thirty seconds
of magic. Whenever you talk about magic, and I say,
what magic comes to mind? And that's such a vague question.
But the three minutes and thirty seconds can be any
song that you as a head believed in quickly and
said that's it. Because again, you're a player. People to
know this too. You're when you love music. It's not
(12:58):
just listening like you are musical in every way. You're
not torious. People come and play with you in your office,
like after the CMA. Sorry, what what's the magic for
you that when you think that song was magic? Immediately, well,
I can tell you a few pop to my head
when you say that. And then I want to go
back to a little Blake Shelton story. But I remember
(13:18):
when Blake was second guessing himself, he already had number
one records and thinking, well, maybe they don't care about
me anymore. And I went to a dinner with him
and Gwen Um and you know. We both were telling him,
you know, get over that. You know people want you,
(13:40):
and he said, well, I got something booked for the
studio on Monday. I don't know. I just don't know,
you know anyhow, And on Thursday Walks a song called
God's Country. As soon as we heard the demo, Blake
sends me the most hilarious texts in the world, many
of which I couldn't uh but anybody ever see. Um,
(14:04):
But it was you know, I actually wish I could
find that one right now and share it with you,
but it would be something along the lines of ESPO.
I think I just found money, real money. And I said, okay, Scott,
send me this song. And I hear the demo of
of God's Country. There's an artist on Thursday morning, not
(14:27):
sure he wants to go to the studio, who puts
out the biggest song of his career that it's recorded
three days later, and you knew the magic of that song,
and you knew that he was going to deliver it.
I felt the same thing, um a lot when I
heard a demo which my buddy Dan Smires is still
piste off at me about of from the ground up,
(14:48):
and it was with a little drum machine and an
acoustic guitar, and you just knew that song was gonna
change people's lives. It such a resonance, such a um,
such a such an amazing message in it. I started
playing it for a few people who came in the office,
and the word got back to him, and he says,
don't you ever do that again? You know, he's he's
(15:09):
one of these the finished product only guys. He you know,
we're Smiers is a club super close to us, and
Caitlin and Abbey are really great friends. And Dan is
no c d guying myself everything, it's got to be
in the exact order. He's a he's a perfectionist um.
And I was telling him that you guys did such
(15:32):
a good job yourself, your team, Dan and Shay from
that song, because that was a graduation for them, whenever
you guys did for the ground up. Because I remember
the I still remember the visuals, and I see visuals
of everything all the time. I'm constantly inundated with new music,
new clips, new content, what about this, what about I
remember what you guys did and how you built the
that like the church, that all of it, all the
aesthetic for that song. You graduated them at that point
(15:55):
because you believed in that song so much, and so
as you say that, that to me was a big
point of Dan and Jay's career because they had they
did the work, and you guys believed in it so
much that you pushed it and it was massive and
it led them to the next graduation step. You've gotta
be proud of those guys. I am. I'll tell you
if anny story about Dan and Shaye. I was riding
(16:16):
to a studio to meet Jay Joyce, a producer of
of Very Much Notoriety here in town, and on the
way Ben Vaughan, who runs the Warner publishing company Warner Chapel, said,
I got this new song from this duo called ragtop Red.
(16:37):
You've gotta listen to it, and on comes UM nineteen.
You and me, I think it's damn near the finished product.
We ended up putting out. I said, ragtop Red, what's that?
He goes, You just got to meet these guys. So
the next day I had Dan and Shay in my
office and you know, you you do these auditions and
(16:59):
you think they're gonna lie about forty five minutes. There
are some you wish were over in ten minutes, but
you still have to be courteous, right. I never wanted
anybody they got their final moment to get there in
front of the head of a label. You know. Well,
after about ten songs, I'm looking over at Scott Hendricks,
our ahead of eight, R, A and R at the
time and ultimately the producer of eighty number one records
(17:21):
in this format, and I'm like nodding. He's giving me
a little nod, but you know, we've never done this before,
and I'm like on my fifth nod, and I finally said,
you guys are signing to Warner today. You're not leaving
until you're signing to Warner. Okay. I went over and
I locked the door, and I said, what do you
want to drink? It turned into six hours in my office,
(17:43):
them playing one smash after another, and then I realized
they didn't have a pot to piston. So I called
up my wife and said, Sean, tell but you please
cook dinner for them. Cook dinner for them five nights
in a row over in that Bell meat house, and
just said, I'm telling you I'm not letting you go
on too. You become Warner brothers artists here and you
(18:04):
know that thankfully it worked out. What about ragtop Red?
How did you convince them to lose? Oh yeah, I
forgot that part of the Well. Yeah, I mean a
very good name, you know. And it also doesn't represent
them top Bread, it didn't walot so too funny pieces
in this vignette. I have a Steeler's wall in my
(18:26):
office because I grew up in the Pittsburgh area, and
Dan Smiers walks right up to and stairs at it,
and I said, you're not from Cleveland, are you? No? No,
I'm from Pittsburgh. I'm thinking good, I got one. I
got one here. Hey, guys, But about that name? And
without mr a beat, they said, oh, we hate that name.
We dropped it. We're Dan in Shay And I thought,
(18:48):
I don't have to have that. Goddamn but that's funny.
So that was it. That was what we already thought it.
We're just um. Whenever it came to the branding of
those guys, that and that cross, that whatever that is, like,
that's what I think of when I think of them.
That decision obviously had to be okayed by you as well,
(19:11):
because it's Dan and shake. Even that little thing that
is so branded, is so important. Do you remember when
you get settled on that even well you do. I'm
you'll laugh as I say this. We love those guys.
There are certain things you just don't argue with. So
it was them that was that, Yeah, it's good, it's good,
it works if it makes you feel good, you know, um,
(19:34):
and you know we It probably created a little confusion
in the early days in terms of what is it?
Is it Dan plus you know, yeah, you get a
couple of hit records, people forget yeah exactly, and they
learn it. They forget that they were confused, and they
learn it forever. That's right. Um. I remember talking to
(19:58):
John Peaks a little bit when I first came to town,
who was always super nice to me, who another who
was a guy by the way, didn't go to dinner
with him, and he's not a record executive, but he
was a guy to whom gonna pull me aside and
was like, yeah, you're different like me, and it ain't
gonna be easy for people like you. And here's some
stuff that I've been through. And again, I was so
(20:20):
appreciative to that. And I never listen to music with
people because one it's awkward to just nod your head
and be like, yeah, I could. You always have to
act like you like it even if you don't. But
he played me this artist and he said, you know,
we're not really doing much with her now, but we
really believe in her and there's gonna be some There's
gonna be something here when we figure out exactly how
to do it, because what it is is awesome. And
(20:40):
he played me Ashley McBride because she's from Arkansas like myself,
and he kind of used that as a conduit to
get to playing the music. And what you guys have
been able to do with Ashley it feels very strategically
awesomely non traditional. How you made her a star and
to see her be a superstar now is her talent,
(21:04):
but also you your talent. You guys this talent. To
sign Ashley McBride and have a vision for her, I
imagine there was I don't know what were there a
lot of meetings like what kind of artists do we
want her to be even though she already knows who
she is. No meetings to have that discussion. Um. I
saw actually maybe six years before we signed her, and
(21:26):
there was no doubt she was incredibly talented, but um
M not ready and she admits that too. Why not
What does that mean? Not ready? Um? Green The songs
weren't captivating, Um the performance was you could tell, you
know that she could sing. She might have been over
(21:46):
singing some of it. You know, you're young, you're trying
to impress and and god, I really just can't um.
Even though I play guitar and I played drums and
I play in bands, I haven't had audition to audition
in in front of a bunch of wankers from this business.
(22:07):
So I can only imagine how people can exaggerate to
a point where it's kind of distracting. But then I
saw her about three months before we signed her, and
I was like, uh, we we have to do this.
And Chris Lacy, the now co president of our label
(22:29):
and the head of A and R, was in agreement.
And then everybody wanted to sign her. And I gotta
tell you, um, um, I think part of why she
ended up with us is because she knew we weren't
going to ask her to do anything but be yourself.
I think we have a great reputation in that regard. Um.
I hear, I hear horror stories of people who actually
(22:51):
go and mix records for artists that they the artists
didn't even know they were doing. It's like, are you
kidding me? I'd fire me if if that ever happened,
but I'll never forget for the rest of my life. Um,
this will be self aggrandizing comment eight. Probably Um, everybody's
trying to sign her and John Pets, who I really love.
(23:14):
That guy is the real deal. He's he's the smartest
um dude, you know, and creative and and willing to
go on non traditional paths with all the artists on
as roster. He calls me up. I'm in Nantucket. He says,
I've never done this before, but I want you to
agree to something. And I said, what's that. He goes,
(23:38):
Ashley only wants to be with you. Well, you just
promise me you'll give us a fair deal. She doesn't
want to take another meeting with another record label. She's
found her home and she's sick of this game, and
can we just shake that. We're going to work out
terms everybody will be happy with. And I said, I've
never done that before either, But yes, I knew she
would be that important, you know. And I think that
(24:01):
one of the great things about what we've been able
to do. Part of it's probably accidental because I didn't
know about country music. Our roster is very diverse because
it's filled with people that go from Ingrid Andrew's, which
you wouldn't necessarily think why would you sign her to
a country label, right, or Dan and Shay. They were
(24:23):
pretty pops out, you know, um were they are, Um
they can be um um. Ashley so traditional and there
was nothing that we had in the twelve songs that
were album one that we thought no brainer to get
played on country radio. But boy, once people got to
(24:44):
hear her and got to experience it live, it was
going to become a thing. And we have to have
the patients. Now with that comes you have to have
Blake Shelton's and Kenny Chesney's and Dan and Shays and
Brett eld Region others producing millions. For me, the joy
is the success they can all have. But getting to
(25:04):
play in sandboxes with people like Abrianna right and know
that you can be changing lives, you know, by taking
a risk on somebody who skirts the edge of whatever
people might call country music, but it's important music. We
just signed a new artist named Jordan Shellhart. I can't
wait for the world to hear her. And you know
(25:25):
it's Joni Mitchell meets uh um Um. I don't know
who the hell house, but it is so refreshing distinctive.
It sounds so good when you listen to it, but
if you dive in the lyrics, you go, oh my god,
she's talking about subject matters that people you know, they'll
misinterpret the song and then they'll eventually you know, this
(25:48):
is really odd, but I'm on my fourth Steely Dan book.
Um book, Yeah, wow, you're that and a Steely Dan
Oh yeah. It started with I wanted to know who
played guitar on every damn record and their notorious for things.
This may bore your country listeners completely, but they would
get the best studio musicians in in the world to
(26:11):
come in, and the musicians couldn't find out if they
made the record until the record was released because there
were twenty five guitars who came in to play the
solo one peg. You know. Money Out started with that
sort of obsession, but it became they purposely wrote words
that nobody could ever literally um figure out. It was
(26:35):
all jokes to them about their neurosis, etcetera. So you
listen in Their Their their Thing, Donald and Walder talk
about we wanted to be very pleasant sounding music that
you didn't have to scratch the surface to figure out
what Ricky don't Lose that number actually meant because it
just sounded good and you humme it, you know, and
(26:55):
there's something very intriguing about that. You know. Jordan's Shellhart
she may she she'd appreciate that reference. I think Arihanna,
if you listen to the lyrics of Arianna as a narcissist,
how the hell did a seventeen year old come up
with that lyric? You know? So part of this joy
of my my tenure down here has been that if
(27:19):
we had enough people paying the bills, I could play
in some different sandboxes and it will all go back
to Ashley McBride and now here we have Lindyville, which
is one of the most important and magic records, you know,
And to know I was associated with that. Ashley said
to me once when we were, you know, in the
signing process. She goes, you know, I like you because
(27:42):
you're always in the back of the room and your
head's always Bob you're actually paying attention. My wife came
to me. COVID kind of blurs the years, and there's
a kid, his man now, but from like two towns
over from where she grew up, and she's gay. He's like,
he's awesome. And she would listen to him on her phone,
(28:04):
mostly on her phone, especially at first on TikTok, and
she'd play songs and we'd be in the car and
we're all bluetoothed up for everything, and she would play him,
just playing on on TikTok over and over again. And
she's in a lot of ways, she's become my compass
on what is happening right this second, because it's a
few layers to get to me, and I don't like
that sometimes, but it is the house that's been built
(28:26):
at this point. But she just gethers. Guys. He's like, yeah,
she grew up around me. It doesn't live in Nashville.
It's Zac Brian. And she just she was on and
on to the point where I was just getting annoyed,
and I was like, I don't want to listen to
Zack Brian because you love him so much you won't
stop playing him all the time. But then I grew
again a real love for stylistically like that's my jam.
I love slow, emotional and I can hear the lyrics,
(28:49):
feel my version of what he's singing. And I became
a massive fan without being very educated on him, just
because I love the music sonically. I got to the
point where I was like, man, I can't get enough
now Zach Brian is with you? Guys, when you sign
somebody that has and they'll last a couple of years,
that has grown so much because of their virility, like TikTok,
(29:10):
they blow up? Is that a whole different negotiation? How
did that come together? Are these artists that blow up?
Or is it different to negotiate with them than someone
who you just know is going to be good playing
a showcase somewhere? Well? I dare say, um as a
generalization which I tend to hate. Um. The rules of
engagement have changed so very much in a very short
(29:31):
period of time. UM, I would say, And they're changing ever,
um right now, right before us, but maybe go back
two years. Uh it was for the first bunch of
years before that. Hey, I only want to sign with
(29:54):
you if you tell me when the radio ad date
is now it is tell me how you're going to
bring the story of my artist to the world. Um,
you know, I dare say and I tell you, Buddy
Rod Phillips this all the time. Radio, by getting records
to take a year to get up the chart is
(30:16):
hurting itself because people need discovery. But it's forced a
lot of looking at and it's not just streaming, although
streaming is a lot of fun when when you happen
to get that joy early on, but just ways to
get a story told through various social media places and
(30:37):
hopefully the result of getting some streaming um early on
has has become the day you know, and I swear
to God, I don't go after that in the name
of being in lieu of radio, because the big win
is when you get to the top twenty at radio
(30:59):
and everything's um, you know, it tends to be smoking
along in terms of how much consumption. There is a
word that Kenny Chesney hates. I think he's kind of
come around to understand that that is some weird part
of our vernacular. Now I kind of hate it too.
I hate product, you know, I never call it a product.
(31:19):
But anyhow, um, my long winded way of saying so,
now artists are coming in and with a story like
Zach Bryan, they have negotiating power that's very different than
the one who's begging you to come see them in
the club. And they haven't built a following, you know,
And do I think that will become more mainstay? Yeah?
(31:43):
Do I think it becomes. It goes from probably five
percent of what gets signed to no, but it's gonna
be probably closer to thirty or you know, there's still
going to be things like hey, um Bailey Zimmerman, who
I loved. When you know, folks, Bobby will just every
once in a while text me and say, hey, I
(32:06):
just met with this artist. I think they're the real deal, right,
question mark? Because I know that you will even if
they're your person, I know that you'll still be honest
with me and go like they haven't they have the
real potential to be the real deal. Or you'll go like, yep,
they sure are. You know you'll be honest with me,
And that's what I said, I always will. And I
(32:27):
was thinking to myself, well, here's a guy working on
a pipeline two years ago, never picked up a guitar
and sang boy. He has a way of connecting with people. Um.
He was kind of in between the Zach Brian building
an audience over a period of time and um and
and the artist who you know as one song and
(32:49):
you're hoping you you bet on the right song. But
I do think that we're going to get more and
more people trying to create a story that becomes compelling.
It makes it here for the manager and lawyers when
they come knock on our door, you know. And you know,
I have a I don't mind being held up if
I believe there's a long term there. I was talking
(33:12):
to Rod. I kind of cornered him on the air.
I later apologized to him because I didn't mean to
do it, but if we're on and I'm doing the show,
I just follow instinct and then apologize Later's if we're live,
you know that's a deal. And he was walking behind
and see him and I say, hey, Rod. I talked
to him about a couple of things, and I say, hey,
why what's the deal with Zach Bryan. Why are we
not playing him more? Like I We can't get enough?
(33:32):
I said, And I understand it's different. I want a
national syndicated show. They don't just go Willy nillion throw
songs into that, but I'm talking about just generally, like
why aren't we and he goes, listen, I love them too.
It's doesn't sound like what everything else sounds. So we're
like playing in certain places to make sure. And I'm
just like, can't you just go what's awesome and and
do it? And I kind of got him into trouble
(33:54):
because the people started attacking him, which I didn't mean
to do, but I was just saying how I felt,
and he was like, don't apologize. You do what you do.
That's what you do on the air, and I'll do
and I'm I'm cool to have to stand by something
even if I personally don't agree with this is what
he said. He goes, I love Zach Bryan. I would
play him on every station all the time. But if
I do that, and he went down this executive talk
(34:16):
that he has to report to his ball right. So
that being said, did that ever get back to that
I was fighting with Rod about Zach Bryan on their
Uh no, the the that's probably because I'm too distracted
in life period um um. But I understand the notion.
This is an odd retort or response to your question.
(34:38):
I was with a radio programmer in Pittsburgh. I happen
to go to Pittsburgh a lot because I I like
my hometown. And he goes, are you guys releasing Zach
Brian now to purposely piss all of us people off
who have been playing him for months? And now we
played him too many times? And I said, only if
(34:58):
we were that smart, you know. No, we we didn't
know whether anybody would ever want it. And then we
kept seeing you all who were playing this in these
because we were playing in the morning show. I was
playing them in the morning and you'd get spins in
these I mean streams in these markets that were off
the hook, and it was like, okay, even us geniuses
should not overthink this and just put the damn record
(35:21):
out and look what it's doing. It's been the top
stream song in country music. I think it's in its
twelfth week or something like that, and it's probably in
the radio chart somewhere in the high twenties. I think
is where we've reached. It's starting to now it starting
to really have some some balls, you know, and as
far as people have to pay attention to it, because
(35:42):
it's climbing so high, that it says, hello, I'm here,
you'd play me, because if you don't, you're real. You're real, idiot.
What do you do now? Like you finished your last
day on Friday? Like what? Because I think for the
first month I would do I say, I don't stop working,
(36:03):
but I think when I finally stop, I'm not doing
anything for a month. I'm just gonna lay. I think
that my family's placing bets on my ability to do that.
The advice I'm getting from anybody of you know, deep
consequence in my life, which is mostly my family and
um a couple of other people who have been with
(36:25):
me for this long ride is shutdown. In January. You're
gonna have so many people asking you to do something.
The stupidest thing you could do is think you should
go do something. Find out what it's like to not
have to make a decision every five minutes. Right, And
I'm going to try my damnedest, I really am. I
have a list of things that I'll do, um well,
(36:48):
that I'm intending to do. The book is turning into
two books. Um Um. Cooking class, I'm want to go
to the culinary Institute. I'm a really good cook, but
I'm sure, I've been slicing some vegetables incorrectly for all
my life. Are you going to cooking classical school? Because
it sounds like that's school school. Um. I'm going to
(37:10):
pick my guitar up more because boy, when I do
it fulfills me. And then I get busy again and
I lose my callouses and all that. But I just
want to see it. For the month of January, I
can sit still. I want to meditate more during the day.
I want to do these sorts of things. I made
the decision to asked to be relieved with me creating
(37:35):
the succession plan of I promoted four years ago. The
two people who will be the co presidents of the label,
Ben klined to GM and Chris Lacity in our with
the purpose that it gave me an option. But I
thought to myself, and this may sound horrible, to screw it,
(37:55):
you know, I am what I am. I was asked
to come and take a a label that used to
be called the artist Protection Program by everybody in town
because if we got signed at Warner, you were never
seen again. Um to um a very productive label. We've
actually grown almost six times. That's just since I said
(38:18):
for it's going two more times, you know, and and
and I'm getting to ride out on a nice high.
But I've been sitting in these marketing meetings on Wednesday
and feeling like it feels like groundhog Day. I'm sorry.
It was one thing when you had to add a
second artist to the Blake Shelton thing we had going on.
(38:41):
And this is not an indictment of Warner. This is
the nature of the music business. Suddenly you find out
you have thirty five artists. And I'm really good at
hand holding individual artist. It gets harder for me to
hear the social media stats on the fifth artist on
the thing. Let alone get to the twelfth artist and
all that. So let the kids do that. I'll find
(39:03):
a way to be involved. My if I have a gift,
I'm an artist whisperer, and I love it. I love
that they trust me. I love that I have some
many years of experience where I can offer sage advice.
And one of them will be with Brett Aldridge, one
of my dearest friends on the planet Earth. You know, um, um,
(39:24):
you know, and we talk about that openly. I just
I'm not looking for compensation. I'm looking for the joy
of knowing that I could help guide the handful of
people artists along in a meaningful way. And then I
know it's just going to unveil itself to me, that
somebody's gonna say, what you do this with me or that?
(39:46):
Because I have to be busy, because I really just
don't sit still well, and that's my entire life. Let's
do personally and professionally. Personally, the best decision you ever
made marrying Sean Tell, actually, oh my kids they're not whatever.
Um uh, you know, deciding that the first one wasn't working,
(40:09):
and then being brave enough at the time of forty
nine years old to say, well, whatever, I know, I'm
not happy. I gotta go find some happiness somewhere. And accidentally,
two months later, somebody said, we got a seat filler
for you at the Grammys, and it was Chantelle Baine,
who is now eighteen years with me in fifteen years
of marriage. And I've never been fucking happier in my life.
(40:32):
So that was the best personal decision, professionally, best decision
you ever made. Um. Announcing to a group of people
in a building on twenty Music Square East in Nashville
that we're going to build the building around Blake Shelton.
And I don't care how bad things are going for
(40:53):
Blake Shelton. We got to prove to the town that
if we could break Blake Shelton to big time, um um,
people will believe in us, and more managers and artists
and lawyers will knock on our door. Because nobody was
coming to the Warner Building. And I looked at Blake
in the I after he played the Grand Old Opera.
(41:14):
He's told this story a couple of times, and I said, dude,
I'm about to build the building around you. You better
work as hard as I do. Not that I was
worried about it, but I had to make some sort
of statement. Mind you up, I was looking like this
because he's six five and I'm squeezing out almost six three.
He looks so much bigger than me. And picture he
(41:35):
also had big boots. He would like this morning, he's
like up six five, and I'm like, yeah, but you're
like six seven and a half when you were big.
That's fair enough. But I think that you know that
that was probably it. Although I will tell you this
not that you need me to talk anymore, but what
led to me coming down here I was running. I
was the president of WE, a distribution company for Warner
(41:58):
The letters stood for Warner Elector A good Warner Electra Atlantic,
and I had helped take it out of the ashes
into a phoenix rising, and about seven and a half
years into it, I swear to God this is true.
I went down to my boss Lee or Cohen were
the characters of all characters and the history of the
(42:18):
music business, and I said, I've succession planned. I'm bored shitless,
promote me or fire me. I can't do this anymore.
He started smiling, told me to walk down the hall
to Edgar Brafman's office. Edgar was the chairman. He's smiling.
I'm thinking I just got set up for something. The
next day they asked me to move to Nashville and
run this. That's how it happened. Yeah I did. I mean,
(42:44):
truth be told. I had just signed a new three
year deal, so if they fired me, I was going
to have a little money to figure it out. But
I just knew when I was bored, I couldn't do
it anymore. You know. It's kind of like what I'm
going through now. I need a new chapter. Boy. In
the hindsight, it still was pretty silly of me to
just I feel like any advice I ever give anybody,
(43:08):
if it's a good advice, it's because I've done it
and messed up. I've done it and had to struggle.
That's where I have gained my knowledge because it just
comes to me easy, which is very few things. I
don't if I can pass anything along because it was
just natural. So a lot of anything that I can
share to people is through hard work or sacrifice or
doing it wrong. So I say that in the vein
(43:28):
of what professionally was your worst decision, where it was
a bad decision, but you know now because it happened
to you, it made you smarter or you're able to
help others because of what happened. That's a great one
right there. I've made a couple of I have a thing.
There's probably a better one than this, but sitting on
my emporium shelf of shelf, one of my shelves of
(43:51):
all this junk in my office is this thing called
Furry Creatures. And it's a um um probably eight or
nine inch hall um clay model of something where somebody
came to me in my old job and said we
can bring you two million dollars a year in um
new revenue, and it can build to this. All you
(44:14):
have to do is make this investment. And I went
to the chairman of the company and I said, listen,
I know this is not um my purview, but should
I take a chance. And he goes, listen, you've been
good so far. Why don't you take a chance? While
we lost about four million dollars in the process. And
I leave that thing sitting on my shelf to remind
myself that I was in the music business. What did
(44:37):
I think I needed to be in some weird video
game that I do nothing about business? But I'm sure,
I'm sure I've done stupider things than that. Smash that thing. Oh,
good for you for keeping it and letting that be
a reminder of your growth. That's funny. Bad When you
(45:03):
were a kid, who was your hero? Dean Martin was
probably one of my real heroes because he had such
a swagger about him, and he had that TV show
with the gold Diggers, which you know, politically correct wouldn't
be allowed today, but he'd sit there on a stool.
Everybody loves some of us sometime, Well, these blondes are
(45:26):
walking around in skimpy dressed and I thought, God, someday
I just want to sing and have them love me
like that, you know. Uh. My dad though, really, when
all of a sudden done my you know, I'm I
think it's the Martin or Mark Twain line that the
older I got, the smarter my father got. My father
and I. I was one of six, I was the
(45:48):
black sheep, always in trouble, always in trouble, always stretching
the boundaries. I've broken nearly every bone in my body.
I have stitches everywhere in this body of mine, just
from falling again, beat up or what No, just climbing
a tree and the tree broke and I fell out
and there's a compound fracture of that leg, you know,
and just just doing ship. And my father was always
(46:13):
you know, grumpy, mad at me, But ultimately we became
best friends when I was about twenty because he realized
I just wanted to adventure and that it was going
to serve me well. And you know, all my siblings
that just fine. I ended up having the closest relationship
with my dad because we would end up getting involved
(46:35):
in conversations about pretty heavy things, you know, and my
dad was typical World War Two veteran and orphan who
you know, had to make his own way in life.
And he's my hero. My leadership style is one my
father's influence. I could watch him walk into a room
of angry people and diffuse it by asking the unquestioned
(47:01):
that made them all have to shut up because they
didn't even know what they were fighting about. You know,
people get all rebbed up. And I thought, man, that
guy just listens, He lets everybody spew. And then you
asked the one, you know, checkmate. Thing. You know, I
was talking with somebody yesterday about um, and it's probably
(47:22):
all the emotional stuff related to this h cathartic moment
that that is going on to be moving on to
some next stage. When my father died, Um, there was
a road between Princeton, New Jersey, and where I had
a farmhouse out in the country. I used to commute
into New York on the train that I called my
(47:44):
father every day on this one road, and it was
about a three mile stretch of road and just so
we could say hey, you know, and ask each other
a couple of questions. When he died, I could not
ride on that road anymore. Because all I would do
is ball every time I was on that route. I've
gone back since just to see if I still have
and I do the emotion. You know, I don't live
(48:07):
there now twenty years, but god, it just affected me
because that memory is so locked in, and you know,
I was happy, and in so far as when my
dad died, I didn't end up being one of those
guys going I wish I had had a relationship. You know,
there was there was no no time lost or whatever
(48:31):
the right expression is. Thanks for sharing that story. That
is like, I'm jealous of that story in a lot
of ways. And it sounds like a dad was a
important part of who you are and even who you
who you are and who you are even today, because
you say your managerial, your leadership style comes directly from him. Um.
(48:52):
When did you notice your your dad's son early in
your career or did it take a while before you
started to go, oh, I am kind of inadvertently my
dad as I'm managing folks. That's a great question. If
I don't romanticize it, it probably was sometime in my
my twenties. Um, Um, just because I found myself in
(49:16):
a room full of people saying something that could you know,
shut the room down. Not with the intention of shut up,
but like, that's crazy that you did that. And then
I go, God, that's what he used to do. That's
what I used to as a kid watch him do
with people. And you know, there's this other part. My
father would never let my head get big. He he
(49:38):
loved my success, but he would just make sure. You know,
I remember every once in a while I would try
to explain why I was doing well. He says, stop
the ship. You start explaining why you're doing well, you're
going to ruin it. Just be yourself, It'll it'll be okay.
Stop talking about yourself. You know I haven't done an
(50:01):
effective job of that. Yeah, listen, the job is to
talk about you. I'm very interested in you. Um, the
first time because and we have like five minutes left.
I want to get to a few other quick things,
but I want to do first and last, the first
time that you were genuinely starstruck, where you're like, wow,
I can not believe I'm that close to this person.
(50:21):
Um Uh, I'm sorry. There's always more than one. The
first one was when I was sitting in Chason's restaurant,
famous in U l A. Johnny Carson always used to
talk about going to Chasen's, and I was there because
I was a buyer at Macy's and the Fisher I'll
never forget it was Fisher Electronics had us out for
(50:44):
dinner and Chasen's and the cast of Dynasty was over
here and blah blah blah blah blah, and two tables
over Frank Sinatra sitting there having dinner with the Princess Caroline.
I think her name is Grace's daughter, and I don't know.
I just decided to walk over and introduce myself. And
he was gracious and I didn't take up more than
(51:06):
fifteen seconds of his time. But I couldn't be that
close to somebody who was such a hero. But I
remember my knees were shaking. You know. That's a cool story.
And the second one, I'm highly involved in environmental things,
and so I I'm on the Global Leadership Council of
(51:26):
the Natural Resources Defense Counsel in r DC. I go
to Washington and lobby senators and congressmen to get environmental
laws stiffened, and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
and I go to an event and my daughter's working
for the organization. She accidentally gets put at the front
of the ballroom and I'm at a table Warner Bot
(51:47):
a table where fifty ft back, and I noticed she's
sitting with Paul McCartney, and I'm thinking, that little bitch,
what what is going on? So at the end of
the night and the reason Paul McCartney was there is
Stella was the honoree, you know, because of her environmental
(52:12):
orientation and you know, not eating um meat or any
living thing. Anyhow, cutting to the chase we're in at
the meeting ends and there my phone's ringing and Jessica,
my daughter, Paul wants to meet you. And I said,
Paul doesn't want to meet me. No, no, no, Paul
wants to meet you. And I said, don't know, it's cool,
so we're good. Say hi to Paul for me. You know,
(52:35):
all I could imagine is walking up and being one
of the five germs on Paul McCartney. Five minutes later,
Paul wants to meet you. I said, Jessica, it's cool.
I'm good. Well, Linda Eastman's sister came back, Linden. Linda
was was Paul's wife many years who passed from cancer,
(52:57):
and said, are you coming up to meet Paul or not?
Now this is relative. I'm okay, this is serious. So
I go up and there's Paul McCartney standing nearer the exit,
but he's waiting for me, and um, he goes, hello,
John Esposito, and I said, well, hello, Paul McCartney. You
don't know anything about me, but I know a lot
(53:19):
about you. He goes, I know everything about you, and
he starts rattling off a bunch of ship that apparently
my daughter told him. And I'm sitting there thinking a
beatle has just talked to me, you know, not just
a beatle, it's Paul McCartney. And we probably talked for
a good two minutes and then I felt like, whoa,
that's royalty. Yeah that's one. Uh final three questions. Um,
(53:41):
the last time your star struck? M hmm, right, now
come on as well. You can see me anytime any day.
That ain't the same, Um, the last time I was
star struck. And this is years I've been around famous people,
(54:02):
becoming jaded in ways, and you still it could be
ten years ago, I don't know, And that's probably what
it is, um jay Z. So I'm an Island def Jam.
I'm called by Lear Cohen, I'm the GM of Island
def Jam. He tells me I need to get on
a helicopter and fly with jay Z to Albany, New York.
We're gonna help launch his new record. And I said,
(54:23):
why am I going to fly in a helicopter? The
president of def Jam, Kevin Lyles, is sick, so we
want you to do it. And I knew j had,
you know, been in some meetings with him. But I'm
gonna write a helicopter with jay Z the whole way
to Albany from there, and and it I was. I
was genuinely gob smacks, starstruck, thrilled, nicest damn guy, smart
(54:48):
as all get out. And there's a real quick story,
and I know we're running out of the time. Um,
we get done with surprising this room full of people
who are about to launch a new album. It was
a big record retailer that we needed their full support,
but they didn't know jay Z was walking into their
marketing meeting. We get done. We get in the car
to head back to the airport and Jay says, I'm hungry,
(55:11):
sees a burger King, and the he said, okay, we'll
stop at the burger King. We walk in and there's
this lovely, probably in her fifties, um African American woman
behind the counter, her back turned to us, and you
know she's filling other people's order. She turns around and
she says, what can I get? I am not seeing
(55:32):
jay Z. I am not seeing jay Z right now. No,
I'm not seeing jay Z. Pretty soon, the whole restaurants over.
Everybody's taking pictures, and he was so gracious. Okay, I'm
taking up all the time. But yeah, I still got
two things left and the site. This next one is
going to be a little quick series, so I I
went quick ones here because I have a few. But
(55:52):
I want to give you an artist that you have
on your label. You may have a personal relationship with me,
but the only I just want you to tell me
a line about them when I say her name, like
what comes up about them? For example, Charlie Worsam genius.
I feel you only want one word, well a sentence,
a genius that I wish the world would hear more from.
(56:15):
I agree with that wholeheartedly. In the world deserves to
want to hear more from they should yea, they should. Um.
Kenny Chesney man, he is a soul brother. Um. He
he rescued me from a an island and didn't even
know who the hell I was twenty years ago. I
(56:36):
don't understand. I'm at an island belong before I'm running
this record label tortola Um. The house of the people
I'm staying with was busted into by a guy out
of his mind on drugs. Um. Big Kenny, which is
who I was with, calls a Kenny on the phone
and said, Kenny, can you come over and get us?
(56:58):
We take us over to ghost van Dyke. We how
to get out of here. I have no idea who
the Kenny is. We go down to the dock and
it's pouring rain, and up comes a boat and then
comes the dinghy. I guess you call it piloted by
Kenny Chesney who's carrying the bags and the pouring rain
onto that boat. And I said, Kenny, you don't need
to do that, go come on man. And then we
(57:20):
went over to this other island and sat and just
talk music for two or three hours. And I'm thinking,
he really is he really is special, you know, And
it started a level of intense friendship that you can't
make up. You know, I'm so proud of that boy
(57:41):
that that what is it called a single Saturday Night
cut through the chase, despite how hard radio made it
for us, and who later came back and said, you
were right now. Yeah, you added thirty years or thirty
weeks to his life with that, bought him another twenty
years and put him in position to have that massive
(58:02):
duet and and then the one he has now. Um,
that's way more than a word or a sentence. But
I think Cole is the one who's next, poised for superstardom,
playing in in stadiums and able to command it one more.
And I love her Madeline Edwards, Yeah, man, you know
(58:24):
you feel it when you're in the room with her
period and you know I love her music, but I
love her spirit so much in her where she's coming from.
And we've had some you know, tearful moments. Um. Some
people know that I like scotch. I've shared some scotch
with her just because she said, how am I going
(58:44):
to be at this label and miss you having a
hand in all of this? And I said, I'm always available.
We'll go to dinner in January. You deserve it. You're special.
You're special, and you know I'll be a big cheer
leader for that gal. She deserved it. Final question, what
are you gonna miss the most? You know, I am.
(59:11):
I was asked a question, So I'm going to try
to reproduce the answer. What will you miss the least
and what will you miss the most? And I said, oddly,
the answer is the same. I will not miss going
to CRS and having lecturous old men with some hot
young girl on their arms and hand me a CD
(59:33):
and say this is my new star, you know, and thinking,
oh man, can they just leave me alone? But I'm
gonna miss walking around the streets and people looking at
me going like you could change my life. You signed
me to a record deal. You know, that's a big
that's a big deal. That was that was that was
food for the soul for all you know. I hope
(59:56):
I didn't let it go to my head, but I
sure like being able to do that and have a
number of them turn out That's what I'm going to
miss the most. Well, I respect you so much professionally, However,
that pells in comparison to the feelings that I have
accumulated for you personally. I just even if we didn't
(01:00:21):
talk for nine months, I always knew it didn't matter.
We hadn't talked for nine months. I mean, that's that's
the end of that. And it didn't It just didn't
matter what it was. I knew if I needed it,
I could call you and sometimes to be two years,
but it's it was just that I just just new,
you know, and and it's not leaving and you're not
dying and you're not moving. But I just want to
(01:00:43):
tell you this because we're kind of celebrating you. Is
I didn't have a relationship with because I purposefully fought
the idea of even knowing any executive because I just
wanted to be the guy who did my own crap.
I don't want to hear from people giving me. I
was just anti everything, um probably ignorantly a little bit,
but that's how I came into this place. And I
(01:01:03):
think it was you who kind of show me, hey,
don't be idiot, open your eyes and ears a little bit,
and you can have good people in your life. And
so that is that. That is my feeling about you personally.
It's way more personal than professional although this town is
it's gonna be different without you running that label that
I only know as a massive label. You you flipped
(01:01:23):
it by the time I got here. But I just
I just respect you, but like a value you personally.
I will treasure those words forever. I mean it, I am.
I'm insanely proud of you. I know you weren't soliciting
a compliment back but it was so fun to watch
you plow through those early days and get to the
(01:01:47):
place where you got not just respect, but you've got
all sorts of opportunities. And I just hope for you
that you can stop and smell the roses. Everyone. That's
a that's a challenge for hard chargers like us, and
you you take it to a new level. But you know, yeah,
I'll end with this. When somebody is dear to me,
(01:02:09):
as Brett Aldridge tells me how important you are to him,
you know that's vouching in a way that because he's
got a hell of a meter and I didn't need
him to do that, but boy do I love that
somebody that discerning would say you mean so much in
your relationship and that and and so I'm happy about that.
(01:02:29):
But I'm happy you came over, um and we're done.
But did you ever I'm sure there have been different times.
Did you get really pissed at me for saying something
or like just really no? Actually, if we are done,
I was so proud of you sing Oh, I've got
so much trouble for that. The people publicly that we're
ripping me, we're also privately going sorry many Yeah, it's tough,
(01:02:54):
but that's tough. Well nothing you ever did buck me out,
buddy'll take it. Hey, you man,
Host
Bobby Bones
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