Songwriter Josh Jenkins (@joshcjenkins) sits down with Bobby Bones to talk about the many levels of his music career. He revisits his years of touring in his band, Green River Ordinance, then deciding to move to Nashville to be a songwriter. He also shares what it's like that his brother, Matt Jenkins, is also a successful songwriter in Nashville and how special it was to write Jordan Davis's and Luke Bryan's song "Buy Dirt" together. Josh also talks about why the day they wrote Walker Hayes' "Fancy Like" was memorable, what it was like when the song went viral and how he feels about the impact TikTok has had on the music industry. Josh also shares the Nashville formula to writing a hit song in 90 minutes and more!
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
He and part of this wisdom to he stuck with me.
He said, we're in the service industry. The place that
I'm just fighting to be in and live in and
plant myself in is.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
We create music for people. Episode four twenty three of
The Bobby Cast with Josh Jenkins. There's a lot to Josh.
Let's talk about a couple of number ones. Jordan Davis
by Dirt Badger, I'm no one. You can't write that.
Also a writer on Walker Hayes. Fancy like yeah, we
fancy like the current song he's got on the chart
(00:36):
right now? Is Tucson too late? With Jordan Davis, I'm
crazing through the desert. They can back and really as
a wonderful writer. But I've been a fan of this
guy even as an artist. He is the lead singer
and writer and you know, just the guy in Green
River Ordnance and this is dancing shoes, food on lou
(00:58):
Nancy and shoes singing, which is super cool, Like it's weird.
I get to be a fan of him in like
two different versions. Josh Jenkins a Grammy nominated singer songwriter.
He's had ours recorded from Walker Hayes, Jordan Davis Dustin Lynch,
Randy Houser, a whole bunch more. He's tall, I don't know,
(01:21):
he's super thoughtful, smart, very philosophical, very much. So it's kind.
I didn't know that him and one of my friends
were as close as they are until after this interview.
He brings it up and then I called him and
he was I'll let you hear it later, but he
was like, that's one of my best friends since like college.
And I was like, that's weird. And I said, do
you like Green River Ordinance? And he goes, you know,
(01:41):
Green River Ordinates. You know, we had a whole thing,
you know. But he's from Fort Worth, Texas. He had
a family band. As a kid, he started writing songs
with his brother, Matt Jenkins, who's a big writer when
you know they were younger. So I'm just gonna play
this for you. Thought this was great. This is one
of those days too, if I'm being honest, where we
had a lot going on and we were leaving town
for a few days, just backed up one to the next. However,
(02:03):
I really enjoyed this and I was able to slow
down and just sit with Josh and talk. Where sometimes
if I'm just so wired and maybe me and the
guests aren't clicking as much, it won't be like that.
But this was really good, so hope you guys enjoy it.
You can follow Josh at Josh C. Jenkins on Instagram
Josh see Jenkins, or go to Josh Jenkins music dot com.
(02:24):
And here we go the Bobbycast with Josh Jenkins. Josh,
how are you, Budy? Doing good? Doing good? So today
you were doing what? Because I was listening, But then
I wanted to stop listening because I didn't want you
to say it and to get my reaction before I
gave it to you for real. So you had all
these songs that you wrote that you feel like they're
probably good songs, but they weren't cut. Yeah, and so
(02:45):
now you're gonna play them. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
So the band that I was in grew up in
a band called Greenover Ordinance out of Texas.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I loved Greenover Ordinance.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Did I have a funny story about you? And that
I mean loved, Well, you were kind, you were you
were still in Texas. My cousin texted me and she
just said, Bobby Bones just played dance and shoes.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah. So I was a massive fan. Well, that was.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
That was when we left our label, left the label
Capitol in New York, and then we went independent and
then that song released and people like yourself supported it
as an independent band, it changed the game for us.
But we hadn't made music in like ten years, and
I'm you know, I've been writing all these songs and
I was like, I was like, there's no better time.
I was just songs that I love that are near
and dear to me. I was like, it's time to
(03:27):
put some music out. So all the guys are coming
in town. Three of us live here, but the other
two still live in Texas, So they're all coming in
town next week.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Do you feel like the songs that you're cutting? And
allow me just to geek out a little bit because
I'm I was a huge fan, still am a huge fan.
Didn't know it had been ten years since you guys
had had worked on I knew it had been a while,
I didn't know ten years. Are these songs that you've
written specifically for the group, for you? Are these songs
that you've written just generally speaking, And like, dang, that's
a good song and I still have it right here.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
I would say eighty percent of them are songs that
specifically wrote for the band, and then there's one or
two that fits. My biggest kind of objective with the
whole thing was like, I don't want this to sound
like songs that I wrote for whoever that are now
green riverse songs. I was like, so I really we
did a reunion show. This is what kicked it up.
We did a reunion show in Texas two nights, one
(04:15):
in Dallas and one in Fort Worth, kind of not knowing,
and both of them sold out and a bunch of
people flew in, and I was like, I started getting
sentimental about all the time with the band, and so
I started thinking about songs that would be personal to us,
as you know guys that you know a couple of
us are married and have multiple kids and just like
that point of life. And so I embarked on trying
to write for that. And there's a few songs that
(04:37):
I've written written in town that will probably shape up
as well, but some of most of it's pretty personal
to the band.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Thinking of well, I guess we used to call them
g RRO. That's right, thinking of that, and also thinking
of some of the songwriting stuff that you've done where
you haven't been the face of it like Fancy, like
with Walker. Yep, it's very different, a way different. It's
very absolutely, it is very very different. Yeah. And so
is that a place that you had to get as
a writer when you got to Nashville, where you had
(05:06):
to transition from You've been doing all this stuff for
Green River, I would just call them g R O.
I don't want to be two in the weeds here.
But now you're you're in Nashville and you're trying to
write songs and people are going to record and are
going to be on the charts. It's it seems a
bit like it's a different version of what a lot
of people do where they come from out of country,
and then they're like, I got to figure out to
(05:27):
write country where you're going from? I mean you're as country.
I mean that's just country as it gets a version
of it. And now it's like I'm going to come
and write some for lack of a better term, pop country. Yeah,
that was that a shift.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yeah, you know, a lot of it was my upbringing
and or upbringing to music was I was a product
of my dad was a traditional country you know, songwriter,
and we played opryes in Texas, so I grew up
on like Geene Watson, Merle Haggard songs as like a
twelve year old, and then I got into like Mashbox
twenty and Third Out Blind and all of the more
pop rock things. So as a kid, I was kind
(06:00):
of consuming all of it. And then as Green Ever
came about, it started as a blues rock band that
folded into kind of a rootsy country Texas thing like
Americana Texas a specific exactly, yeah, and it had a
little pop influence and so but stylistically I loved so
much music that come into Nashville. It really trained me
how to go hey, when you enter the room, like
(06:22):
you have like a proverbial palette of colors you can
paint with, and like when you enter in with certain
artists you get to open up certain parts of your
creative thing. Like with Walker, it's like we get to
open up all these colors that like otherwise I wouldn't
be able to say or use. And so some of
my like I used to add our shows with freestyle
or whatever like that kind of thing, and so there
was elements of that that were like, man, I get
(06:43):
to bring that into some of this music that's not
greenervert at all, and so it was pretty fun. It
was definitely a learned thing. I was like, how do
I tap into that part of my brain?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
But yeah, it's muscles that you've used, but not in
situations like you'll be using them now, ye, which is
super cool to see. And I definitely want to go
through your story, but and I rarely just start with
the songs, but I do want to do a couple
of the songs first, and let's start with Walkers as
we brought that up fancy like, which just was I mean,
(07:12):
it was humongous. It was a shifter. It shifted, It
shifted all of it. It shifted people on TikTok going, oh,
I can also be a country artist.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
It shifted country artists to go I should be on TikTok.
It shifted songs getting in commerce, I mean it, which
it did a lot. And I when the song was written,
it probably wasn't assumed it would do all that because
nothing does that. So tell me about that day and
who walks in the room when you finished it, where
you're like, this is good, but I've written with the
(07:40):
walker before. When you finished the Walker. It's definitely a
Walker Yep. It's like, well, this is a Walker thing. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So what was that whole the whole day? Was it
memorable at all? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (07:52):
It was, And it was memorable in a personal way.
It was you know, obviously we were coming back into
the rhythm of writing in the room and after Covid
and I had known Walker for so long. We were
writing back at the shack forever ago, and you know,
and so I'd known him forever, and we would write
a ton of songs that I love, and I just
grew to admire who he was as a person, his
(08:14):
story and his craft. And so that day, man, I
would be honest, I was a little like coming in
a little burned out, and I looked at my calendar.
I was like, if it wasn't Walker, I wouldn't be
on this day.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
And but I show up.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I know with Walker we're going to have great conversation
and laugh. And I never had met Shane Stevens or
Cambo before. And we walked in the room and none
of us had the idea or anything. All that we
had was we started talking about life and journey and
Walker's story with addiction. It was really because I had
never met Shane Stevens and we just started. He was
sharing his story and so it was just really awesome,
(08:45):
you know, hour and a half of like life stuff.
And then Walker's like, I want to write some fun
and he's like he had just finished country stuff and
he's like, my cruise hyped about this country stuff song. Word,
let's write something fun that's all with Jake. Yeah, got it,
And so he grabs it. He's kind of talking and
he's like, and I grab a guitar and I'm kind
of jamming, and he starts talking about how people obviously
(09:05):
think they're bougie because he's in a band, he's an artist,
and he goes the nicest restaurants and he's like, I
just loaded the kids in the van and we go
to waffle House or Applebee's. And so we literally had
no idea. We started jamming and fumbled out fancy like
and and then and then Walker and Chewalker fashion spits
out the first two lines of the chorus. We're like,
oh my gosh, what is this? And then like two
(09:25):
hours later we had the song and just laughed and
had a lot of fun. But I remember Robert Carlton
was like before I went in the room, He's like,
we need a Walker radio song, And I was like,
what won?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
What is that too?
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I left there going, this is probably the most fun
I've ever had in a room. But I don't know
if people will play it. You know, you have a
perceived idea of what radio would play.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
And that was that.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
I loved it and I thought it was super fun.
But like Walker, I go, I don't know where this lives.
I just know I love it. And uh, and then
it got His team heard it and were hyped on it,
and then and then he did the day and it
was just like this thing where there was no calculation.
The thing I love about the story of Fancy like
is there was zero calculation for a TikTok.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Dance or like we need to get a brand so someone.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
It was literally we had a lot of fun and
then it saw the domino of people responding really sent
the song to where it went. It was no sort
of calculation or like big machine that was like we're
going to push this over the mountain.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
We got a huge label. It felt it felt.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Like from our end that when the TikTok dance happened,
and people started grabbing a hold of it that it
just started moving in such a way that we just
kind of held on for it, and the whole ride
was like kind of.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Surreal because it was zero expectation for what it did.
Those days in a writing room when everybody's just kind
of talking. Again, you're far more knowledgeable, far more experience
than I am, but mostly you sitting there and talk
because you don't have really an idea to jump on immediately.
It's like, hey, good to see you. And if you
meet somebody new, you're like, hey, what's up, we'll talk.
But if you got something, yeah, and you got something
that you really brought to the room on purpose, you're like,
(10:59):
I feel good about this, let's go. Yeah. Some days
you just don't, even if it's not a songwriting room,
even if it's i' trying to write jokes, I'm like, man,
I just burnt out. Was that a bit of what
that was? Or did you try some ideas and just
didn't hit and then you ended up an hour and
a half later going let's do this, Like what did
the room start at?
Speaker 1 (11:17):
It was, honestly, there was no sort of Sometimes you
walk in a room and you feel the.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Pressure like what are we going to write today?
Speaker 1 (11:24):
It literally just felt, you know, and kind of like
I'm thankful that it did a very peaceful like getting
to know so I don't even know how we got
into the conversation about Shane and I started talking about
his story and where he's been, and then Walker starts
chiming in, and it really just felt like we didn't
even get around even throwing any idea. Really, it just
(11:45):
was literally like to the point that, you know, not
to be emo, but like there was moments of like
almost tears of like the journey of of Shane's story
and then Cambo being from California, and then but Walker
really kind of sharing a lot of his story in
that way because obviously I've had a lot of ton
of conversations with Walker, but not with Shane Stevens, you know,
in that dynamic, and so it was really beautiful. Honestly,
(12:07):
it was like the honestly I thought I had a
moment in the right before we wrote this song, thinking
are we going to write a song today? And if
we don't, I'm not even mad about it because I'm
loving Like it felt like a therapy session in a way,
and so that to me felt like it primed the
whole room felt like, man, we really got to know
each other. And then and then fancy like happened and
(12:28):
the rest is crazy.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
This is where you're mature as a human, way more
mature than I am. Because I would be in the
room and everybody talking, myself included, and I would go, Man,
they feel like I'm wasting their time, Like we've talked
for forty minutes and I know I don't know these guys.
They didn't come to Nashville to have a therapy session. Yeah.
I would start to worry about that and be concerned
because I wouldn't have the security in myself to just
(12:50):
sit back and let it happen. Yeah. But had it
not happened, the song probably would have never come out. Yeah.
So that being said, are there times that happens but
there's no song ever written at all? Yeah? And do
you leave going why did I just spend four hours there? Yeah?
Because I would.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yeah, I do think you you feel anxiety sometimes in
a room you're like or you come in with something
you know you like and you're itching to get to it.
I think the times that I have been like really
just relaxed, like let the song come to you, let
the field the room. And I do think there's a
time when you're like, hey, y'all, we got to write
a song, but.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
That five minutes in, Yeah, shut up, write a song.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
But sometimes, and I found this true, is you kind
of you know, the best scenario is there is an
energy of like getting to know each other or catching up,
and then in that you can oh, you said something
and that may be a better idea than what you had.
It's like sitting in the room with Shane and Josh
oh or whoever. Like their ability. I've learned from their
(13:48):
ability to banter and to like play off each other
and talk. It kind of like loosens any sort of
creative anxiety you get in a room you're like, Okay,
write a song and it's like dance and you're like,
well I don't, and versus hey, like, let's relax and
so a lot of that I feel like I'm trying
to implement of just getting a lot of reps and
doing it going. Man, I feel like I'm personally better
(14:09):
when there's a little bit of like a you know,
we're like there's a little bit of a relaxing you know,
stretching up in there.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
But I do get the thought of, like y'all and
there's been I would feel bad. I would feel guilty, yeah,
because I would feel like they think I'm wasting their time.
Even if they didn't, even if everything about them said
they're in the moment having a good time, I would go,
they think I'm a loser and I have no idea,
and I'm trying to just go yeah, so good for you.
That's a compliment, Like you're mature enough to sit in
it some days, some days not some days. I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
I'm like, we got to write a song because I'm
looking at my clock, going, oh, I gotta like, how
much time do we have? And then I have to
remind myself a song doesn't have to be built in
the day, and I gotta go. Our town can be
really good about songsong song, But like it's cool even
if we get there's a little old school voice that
I've heard from mentors of mine being like, hey, dude,
we used to break for lunch. We used to be
We used to like if you got a good idea
(14:57):
in a day, like there's a little bit of a
you know, one of my mentors is Alan Shambling.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
He's like, man, if you've got a good idea, you
leave that day.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Hi, You're like yes, So it's like we might look
all day for And that voice is one that I
try to keep present versus the current state of song
song song, because I get you. You're like, we got
to be out here by four, and I got this
and I got that, and sometimes you just miss the
good ones.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
And I think with me, it wouldn't even be about me,
it would be about them. I would just be like,
they have to have stuff to do, exactly. It's like
I feel when I'm talking to anybody. I don't go
to a bunch of parties because I'm not that cool.
But if I'm in any social setting and I'm talking
to somebody, but there's also like forty twenty eight people
around and I'm talking to somebody face to face, I'm like,
they do not even though we're having a conversation. I'm like,
they don't want to talk to me any They definitely
want to go somewhere else and talk to somebody else
(15:40):
where the conversation is probably a little better, and I
would be feeling that yeah, in the room. But you know,
some of us are mature like you. Some of us aren't.
I'm with you. So that song, it's weird that you
don't that TikTok doesn't pay for music. Oh gosh, dude,
I wish they did. I asked them.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I was like, because at one point they were like, look,
how many people have reused your song?
Speaker 2 (15:57):
And I was like, do we get paid for that?
Speaker 1 (15:59):
And they're like, in the true music business fashion, yeah,
I think somebody worked out a deal somewhere and it
was just like the most vague and I was like, oh, cool, cool,
that doesn't sound promising.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
And luckily it translates yep. But we had a song,
a Christmas song that Eddie and I really called Elf
on the Shelf, and it was all Christmas. It was
just getting spread and played like crazy and I was like, oh,
I can't wait to see the chick. Oh I have
a TikTok doesn't pay anything. Yeah. Yeah. That sucked. Yeah,
And we didn't even nobody even carried outside of TikTok,
so we made like literally nothing. That song blew up
(16:31):
so much it really couldn't be denied in that I
don't deal with music as far as country music on
the radio. I don't pick songs or anything, but I
remember a lot of the executives going, do we play this?
But it was just such a jack hammer that if
you didn't play it, you were going to be a loser.
It wasn't even they wanted to run to play it. Ye, yeah,
(16:52):
because it was so not what people were used to.
So it wasn't people racing out to go, let's get
fancy like on. It was people hold had as long
as they possibly could. It was crazy to see bro
id that trickled down and I heard a lot about that. Yeah,
I was crazy. It was a weird.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Mix of emotions because on one hand, you're like, this
is so fun. It's such a wild ride, and that
would That was my first number one. Not that number
ones matter, but it was my first song that was
that impactful, and I was like, oh gosh, is country
radio gonna play My insecure mind was like, is country
really gonna play it? You know, And you get all
the you know, you feel like there's probably resistance on it,
(17:28):
but at the end of the day, it was it
was you know, it was wild to see it.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
It was total resistance, but it still broke through. Yeah,
even with it may be the most resisted song I've
ever seen. Yeah, at the same time, it was also
a number one song and a pop culture moment, you know,
because I would be flipping through satellite radio and be
on the pop station and I would hear it, Yeah,
that's big. That doesn't happen very often. No, and I'm
assuming that song you did pretty well even with twenty
(17:54):
five percent split. It was great.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Yeah, I have four kids, four kids now. Actually I
remember a moment where it was. It was it was
on the commercial and it was during fall college football,
and I kept getting text from my buddies being like,
if I hear your song one more time the Applebe's commercial,
And I was like, buddy, just know this. Every time
you hear it that I'm buying diapers from my kids.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
So every time it gets used anywhere, are you making money?
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Like yeah, I think television, television, and yeah, TV and
stuff is great like that that makes that's actually gets
to us and then obviously radio. But outside of that, TikTok, nothing, nothing,
But you know, you realize at that point this song
would have not been what. I don't believe without the
TikTok completely. It doesn't happen.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Absolutely I agree, and also getting lucky with the algorithm.
I've seen some things that are awesome not catch, yep,
and I've seen some things that are like why catch
and be massive? You caught and it was great yep.
We rode the way. It was the rare both of
them hit. The product was amazing and the algorithm hit
and people kept spreading it and it worked. It's it's
(18:57):
just such a lightning and a bottle type thing. And
to catch lining in a you gotta have lightning. That's it.
And he had lightning.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
We didn't know we had. We knew he liked it,
we knew he loved it. But that's the beauty of
this business is you don't you go. I've surrendered a
little bit of the ideas like is this a hit
or not a hit? I just go, Man, do I
love it. At the end of the day, people will decide.
But I think we all left going we love this song.
Whatever it is, I don't know. And it was just
a cool kind of coming back point to go and
as creators we just had to love it and then
(19:24):
send it out in the world. And then sometimes you
just sometimes it goes and sometimes you get the rocket
ship hang tight.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
The Bobby Cast will be right back. Wow, and we're
back on the Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
What was it growing up like for you? What was
the town that you grew up in.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
We grew up in a town thirty minutes west of
Fort Worth called Aledo, Texas. They hold this the amount
of state championships in Texas, so it's like Friday night
lights five. I was not good at sports at all. Football,
football school, football town. Yeah, And my bro and I
grew up playing music with my mom and dad. We
were in a family band and we would travel around
Texas and play these little opryes Hole in the Wall, Cleeburn, Wileye, Weatherford, Grapevine,
(20:09):
anywhere that would have a little house band and they
would play predominantly.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Old country music. And that's what you guys did. That's
what we did.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
And the crowd was predominantly forty plus an age, and
we grew up singing George Jones and Geene Watson and
Meryl Haggard songs and Tracy Byrd and all the early
country and we were just that was our school into music.
That was what only music I thought existed, really, and
then grew up and then my brother was like I
want to go to Nashville and be an artist. And
then I joined Green River as a fifteen year old
(20:38):
and was like, I don't want to be a country artist.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
And I don't want to, you know, I went.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
So it was like it became we each kind of
went our own separate ways, but mom and dad were supportive.
And then I joined the band and we were playing
in high school slinging CDs and and then and went
to college for a year, and then a manager that
was our manager for a long time, and me, Paul Steele,
was like, hey, out of school after a year, and
let's we're going to buy a van and trailer. We're
(21:03):
going to tour independently for two years, playing every place
we can. We're going to hustle and try to get
a record deal. So we made zero dollars for the
longest time, just like I think I was making a
thousand dollars a month, enough to pay rent and get
some food. And then we were traveling in the van
and doing the thing. And then we got a hold
of Capital Records out of New York and sign a deal.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
So that was my Green River journey. So you're in
college for you to where'd you go to school TCC baby,
and so man, I would say it was fortunate your
parents were musicians, but I don't think you would have
been in the place anyway without your parents being yeah,
musicians and music lovers. So what was their story? What
did they want to do when they were seventeen eighteen
years old?
Speaker 1 (21:42):
My mom she worked at the courthouse in Fort Worth
as like a twenty year old, and she worked there
her whole life and she left to go work at
a at a law firm. That came back, but that
was her story. She worked bottom up and then straight
from just like interning to then working with a judge.
Did she want to be an artist? She never, she
just my dad was the creator. I remember as a kid,
(22:04):
my dad would get a yellow legal pad and he
would be writing hooks out. And my dad, at that
point in time, was working full time, created as a
graphic design company, was not able to go do music
because of us. But he loved music so much and songs.
He said, if you're going to play music, write your
own songs, and so we would do the family band thing.
But he also is like he would always just write
(22:27):
hooks out and he would I remember sheets and sheets
of hooks that he would write and he would be like,
that was his passion, and so that kind of spilled
over onto my brother and I. He would send us
into separate rooms and say, write a song. Is like
eleven year olds each you go into the room and
write a song and bring it back.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
We'll play it.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
And so they loved music. I think my mom loved music,
but because of my dad's passion, she just was like, hey,
he taught her how to sing harmony. And then we're
off in the races as a family band.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
And that was older than you write. Two years. Yeah,
two years. It's kind of a long time when you're brother.
It's not once you get older. But what did he
was he like a big older brother to you? Did
it feel or did you guys feel like buddies? We
felt I mean he felt like a big older brother.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
I mean he's the more like dominant alpha and I'm
probably more like reserved, emotional quiet one. And so you know,
we never wrote together ever until probably the last six
or so years. We never, at no point our childhood,
wrote a song together. I think we stylistically just were
a part of maybe our egos were like you know,
the brotherly thing, the brotherly competition. So I was doing
(23:28):
the band thing. He never wrote on any of that,
and then he was doing his artist thing, which then
it turned into a writing thing. And so it wasn't
until honestly, right around the time we met Jordan that
we started writing together, which is crazy.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
That's pretty wild that you grew up in the same
house with the same parents. Yeah, doing the same music. Yeah. Yeah,
you don't hop in and go, let's creatively do something together.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yeah, it's weird looking back now because we're so close
in that regard.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Did you avoid it then or was it he doesn't like,
because I'm sure you didn't go we're never going to
write together, yeah, Or did just not come up. I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Maybe there was just like some brotherly Stylistically we kind
of were different, but I think maybe there was some
brotherly like competition, like healthy competition.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Did you look up to him.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
I've always looked up to him, Yeah, you know, especially
you know he came to town and was doing the
artist thing and I was doing the label thing out
in New York, grinding, and we shared similar struggles in
that regard, like he was on Universal South and music
never came out and I was on the band, and
then we left the label, and so we were always
aligned in that regard. Stylistically a little different, but aligned
(24:31):
in the journey of music. And so but I always
have looked up to him. He is truly my best
you know, outside of my wife. He's my best butt
in town. And so it's been really sweet.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
But your mom and dad creative, they're singing, they're playing music,
but they're also they have stable jobs. Yeah, so you
don't anymore. I know, because when you said you were
in the family band, and I knew that by reading
about you, I was like, well, then his parents were like,
run be free because we were no they had real jobs,
they had to pay a mortgage. Yeah, so what do
(25:03):
they say when you're like, I'm checking out of here,
you're in college, I'm going so they say, go ahead,
but then come back if it's not working.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
That's pretty much all of the parents in the band
and my parents were like, hey, you're young, you have
time to go do this. If this doesn't work out,
you can always come back. But even you know, throughout
the years of the band that were like, you know,
being in a band is incredibly hard because of the
economics of splitting it five ways, and but we we
built a following. But even then, you know, when I
met my wife and we're scrapping by and I'm in
(25:30):
the band still and we're the shows are great, but
you know, you just it's just hard. My parents have
always been like, what do you want to do, Like
you're a man now, if you want to if you
can make that work. But they never at one point
were like, you need to get off the road or
you need to stop doing this, because they trusted me
to make that decision.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
So why'd you move to Nashville.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
I was traveling with the guys and we were doing
that and I kept coming to town and being around
my bros. Crew and seeing this kind of creative engine
that when I was off the road with Green River,
it just I didn't really have that. And I think
at that point in my mind, I started thinking about
do I want a tour for the rest of my
life or like for the most of my you know,
(26:12):
until I can't anymore to make a living. And I
was like, I don't think I do. I really felt
like I had met my wife Jules, and I'd started
thinking about like the next five six years and so
moving to Nashville was a way for me to invest
in things, being in a community that would provide an opportunity,
no promises, but to pursue something that would I could
be here and be around my family and so that
(26:33):
was start of the start of that thought process for me.
So coming to town was a little bit on. My
bro was like, you should be here, you would love it,
you would do great. And also just going, you know,
let's get out of Texas. Let's go to Nashville and
see if there's some something for us up there outside
of the band.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
So what do you do when you get here, because
it's not like there's a big pot of gold waiting
for you, like, oh yeah, dud, Josh's coming, here's here's
your money. Like what do you do because it doesn't
feel like you're coming with the dreams of pursuing full
artistry because you gotta get back on the road again.
And you know what that's like. That sucks. It's hard, yeah,
and it's awesome, but it sucks. Yeah. So you're kind
of starting over, starting over.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I mean, Cobalt was adminting all the band stuff, and
so they were plugged in here with writers.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
And it was a good transition because the.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Band was still going and there was still money, and
there's still work to be had and music out and
a lot of things we were doing. It was a
time where that kind of covered us to get here.
I mean, granted, my wife worked at US. She's a
math major from A and M. And she worked for
a Texas energy company, so she was carrying us because
I wasn't making a ton of money. But it was
(27:36):
a scenario that the transition to that was like, hey,
this is going to be a process. I didn't expect
my mind, I'm going to go to Nashville and like
how they hit tomorrow And she deserves an award for
how patient. And she's been along the journey for a
long time. You know, we've been here for twelve years.
So I came in and I just dove straight into
the songwriting thing, and it was it was hard. It
was a learning curve for.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Sure, writing co writes with Randoms. Yes, especially at first.
That's that's that's new, right, Yeah, just walking in the room.
I never met you, Let's write a song. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Because the band, the way I wrote with the band
was always much it was like a free open ride
when I want to write, and then you come to
Nashville and it's very much like show up. You get
a do you have an idea, and it really in
a tough way you learn the craft right it like
it works. You over to go, oh I got to
be prepared or oh, I like I got to learn
more about how this works. And so it was definitely
(28:30):
a learning curve. And I even listened back to the
songs I thought were good and they're not. They were
like these are these are bad? And I was writing
them at the time.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
You do.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Sometimes you don't see your growth until you listen back
and go, goodness gracious, like those were tough. But I
had a team around me that was willing to kind
of invest, and that really got the ball rolling in
that way.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Did you have super fans that were like, hey, why
aren't you putting out music? Yeah, what's up?
Speaker 1 (28:52):
At that point, we were putting out music, and I
think the band's profile, like having dance and choosing some songs,
it helped me transition into town because people are like, oh,
we've heard a green of ordinance, like we'll write with Josh,
and so that helped me and we at that time
were still putting music out, so it wasn't like we
had gone dark yet.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
You mentioned a mentor earlier. Tell me who that was
again and how did he end up being your mentor?
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Well, Alan Shanmlin has just been a buddy. I met
him through Robin Palmer a long time ago, and my
brother and I have just connected with him at different
points in our career and I took he took me
to coffee forever ago, and you know, he is just
he kind of embodies a little bit of what.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
I kind of aspire to be as a creator.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
And he moves at such a beautiful, peaceful, slow pace
because his process is so different than the song song, song,
song song thing. He's very methodical and just like patients
of creating something beautiful. And you know the songs he's written,
the House That Built Me and I Can't Make You
Love Me and Don't Laugh At Me and his story.
You know how those songs came about, and the patients
(29:58):
it took to get there trickle down into our process
going like you know, we want, we're we're trying to like, Okay,
we're just twenty twenty three. There's a different climate of
creating music but we can lean back and learn a
little bit from that. And so he's just been we
you know, he's been a dear friend. We actually were
My bro and I were flying out to Colorado to
do a private gig and he happened to be on
(30:19):
our flight, and so we're like, you know, hugged him
and we sat and talked for two hours and he.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Sit there and he talked about life and the soul
of what we do.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
And you know, he said this about music, and I
admire it. He said, music is spiritual, like what we do.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
It's not all.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
We live at the crossroads of the art and commerce.
And he carries like you can hear it in house
that built me Like here. He really tries to get
to the soul of in the heart of what needs
to be said, and he takes the time to say it.
And so he's been a person, not only personally but professionally.
I just I always go, man, I just want that
to I want to be baptized in that thought a
(30:52):
little bit.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Did you ever write early on when you move to
town and you're writing with whomever. For me, it was
probably when I first moved here was Miller, because I
was just like, I mean, he'd written Jamie Johnson, he
had written you know you, and I was just like,
this is crazy. And Nelly and I are friends, but
I was just like, I can't. I'm actually a little
bit intimidated. Yeah, and here I am trying to write
comedy music with a guy who's got a ton of success,
(31:15):
and I was I don't really know what to do.
I was a little bit I felt like over my
skis caught up. Yeah, it was all good, But who
was that for you? Whenever you moved to town and
you're like, I'm writing with I don't know a B
or C. Or you got in a room and you
didn't know them and all of a sudden, I mean
they're throwing one hundred and three miles on our fastballs. Oh.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
There was plenty of those where people are seasoned in
and you're like, I don't know what I'm doing and
you're insecure and you're going, I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
I'm not good at this. Can I do this? You know?
Speaker 1 (31:42):
I think coming into town there was just there was
just you know, people that had been doing it, you know.
And I remember sitting in the room with Josh oh
and Josh Osborn and Trevor Rosen, and they were kind
of enough. They were fans of the band and they
were friends of my bros. And we wrote and I
was just like trying to keep up, and I was
like it was they were so good and so like
on the track that I just was like, I got
(32:03):
a long way to go. I got some learning to do.
And so, you know, battling through insecurity and self doubt
and all the things to stick with it and see
that slow progression. But those guys and the beauty of
this town is everybody, nobody. I really haven't had a
write where somebody made me feel bad about myself, which
I'm thankful for because I know those exist. But so
everybody was always supportive. But I always felt like, man,
(32:24):
I got a waste. I got some work to do.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
You know who is super cool? Can't mention those two
dudes already or three? You can't mention any of those Shane, Josh,
And you can't mention maybe else you say a minute ago,
any name you've mentioned. You can't mention who is super cool?
Maybe became friends with them, Maybe he just loved being
being around them. I'll vamp while you do that for me,
(32:47):
it was Jim Bievers and at this point Jim and
I have written thirty comedy songs together, right, and I
was just like, this dude's funny. He's also written red
solo cup. He's also written Tim McGraw, but he's like hello,
and I was like, I gotta be this guy's friends.
And then we started playing with them. We're friends more
than anything professional now, like who was super cool? The
(33:08):
writing room made a friendship with who?
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Hmm, goodness gracious. There's so many of them. I'm trying
to think like a really good one.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Early on, there was.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
A girl named Robin Lerner who wrote She's my kind
of Reign, and she was yeah, and she was masterful
at like melody in this element of like commercial and
poetic in this thing, and so early on, like being
in a room with her and watching her kind of
craft was I remember that was that was impactful on
(33:45):
me because I was like, oh my gosh, like I'd
never seen that was one of my most impactful early rights.
That was just she was kind and she was gracious.
And from then obviously there's people that you meet I
think you know people before, but like the lorries of
the World and the Allen of the World.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
And the.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Obviously I can say Shane because I'm part of the
Shame Company. But I think those kind of people what
they did for me is they never had an ego
in the room and I think that's unique to me.
Just you kind of go and go and this person's
gonna be like they have the right to be whatever,
and I go, oh, Like there's a graciousness to those
guys like Shane. The way he creates is so gracious
(34:23):
and collaborative and building up of you know, your your
co writers that I was. That has floored me to
be in the room with people like that that were like, oh, dang,
you deserve you could be whatever, but you're not.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
That's funny that you mentioned that because I had done
a couple of things with Walker and he is a
confidence giver mm hm, because I know what I A'm
good at and walk and be like that's it, yeah,
come on, yeah, WHOA And I'm like maybe I am.
And I knew I wasn't, but I was like, maybe
I am. Okay, like that you're you're right. There was
a real confidence even that Walker would give me that
(34:59):
I would be like, make me better honestly because heart
rate we go down a little bit so you could
actually breathe, so you could actually whatever perform means right create.
But there is it's a superpower. Yes, some people have.
It is to instill confidence and folks actually let them
be a better yea performer. Ye.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
It brings out the best in everybody. And I think
there's a I've learned that from them, and I try
to carry that. I go like, man, if you leave
the room and if someone feels small because you've been
in the room with them, I'm like, this is not
this is we haven't met our purpose here. Like being
with those guys and they build you up and they
give you confidence. You don't see yourself like that's it.
You know, when shame looks like that's it.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Go with that. You're like, you go, oh, maybe maybe
I kind of know what I'm doing. You know I belong,
Maybe I belong. That fails back to me exactly, and
so I really appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Even to this day. Man, I go, there is a
real thing. Because we're all in secure creators. It's like, dude,
we doubt ourselves and so to have people in the
room that are speaking that life.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
I think it unlocks like the songs, because.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
I think if you're like insecure and you're only thinking
about yourself, you're probably not going to be creative as
creative as you could be otherwise.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
So it's like shoot freeers. That's right, you know, Tyer,
You get where you're gonna shoot and lock up, you
get the yips. Oh yeah, golf kinda dang, live the yips.
My whole life is the yips.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
The Bobby Cast will be right back. This is the
Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
The most excited I've ever been an Awards show is
when by Dirt won ever And I've been to a
bunch and been part of a bunch, but I mean,
you and your brother wrote that with Jordan his brother,
and obviously Jordan and I were very close, and I
was just like, come on, come on. I couldn't believe it,
but not in the way of like I couldn't believe
(36:55):
it because it shouldn't happen. I couldn't believe it because
it just felt like something that I wanted and something
that was that good. Surely it's not gonna win. What
did you think about going into that when that song
was was up for the CMA.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
I think you just try to protect yourself a little bit, going, man,
getting the nomination is winning, which I believed to a degree, right,
I was like, you try to pad your expectation, but
you just you kind of go in a little even
you go in going, am I really here? Is this
really happened? The whole process you know, of that song,
how it was born, and the guys and the relational equity,
(37:30):
and then going to the all of the stuff and
then the awards, it just felt like we've already won,
like not in this since we've won the award, but
I go this is this to go here with my bro,
like the journey of this my wife and our journey
in Jacob and Jordan, And so I think I was
a little bit just patting my.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Expectation, being like we already won. Man, we're good. You know,
we tell these others told each other that.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
My bro and I were like, we already went, we're here,
this is the win and we just had NSAI Awards
and we're like, man, and so you know, I think
you're trying to protect yourself, but yeah, when when it happened,
you're just like I just remember being like, oh my gosh,
like what is this even I don't even.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Know what I'm feeling. What were you listening for, bah
or Joh? I think the the ba from from from
Reva Yeah bye by Oh my god, that would have
been crazy. It was, dude.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
It was like you're sitting there and you're like, oh God,
stand up. You're like, you know, you can't prepare for
moments where you're you're like you have that out of
body experience where you're like you're you're trying to soak
it in.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
But it's such a big thing that it all felt.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
And obviously we saw you back there and it was
just like we still were like, oh my gosh, it's great.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
I rushed back there. I was I was with my
wife sitting and as soon as I went, I was like,
I gotta go. Yeah, and I was God, I was
so happy for you guys. That was the coolest moment. Well, man,
I we appreciate your love on it.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Man. It was if we felt it and it was
special for us in so many ways, and even outside
of being a hit or song of the year whatever,
it's like, words are great. It was like the soul
of the song and the journey it took us on
as brothers and friends and husbands and fathers and and
people like yourself supporting it.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Were like was the sweet spot. Sometimes people say stuff
like you know, brothers in love and I don't believe them.
I believe it with you. For some reason, I feel
like that like you're I feel like you're like very
grounded and respectful of why you're hearing, what you feel
you're supposed to do and how you're supposed to do it,
Like you're like country Buddha sitting next to you.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Is what it feels like, Bro, I'm I'm trying, man.
I think as a dad, and the journey of this
thing I've thought a lot about. I've had a lot
of internal you know, the thing is successful. The thing
success will do to you is it will reveal a
little of your motive. And I've had to recorrect and
not that we have bad motives, but it taught me
a lot to go okay at this point in my career. Actually,
(39:47):
Ben and I had this conversation about your buddy of ours.
He and part of this wisdom to me stuck with me.
He said, we're in the service.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Industry, which Ben Rector, Oh okay, got it, and it
blew my mind to go.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Okay, So much of our world, if we're not careful,
can be about I want to have a hit, I
want to be successful, I want to get a plaque.
I want to and then it becomes egocentric, and the
Alan Shamlin voice that comes into my head or the
Shane voice or whoever, is like, hey, that is not bad.
The place that I'm just fighting to be in and
(40:19):
live in and plant myself in is we create music
for people. And when I'm in that posture, going hey, man,
what song would be, whether it's fun or lighthearted, it's
a service injury of me in a benevolence, going like
I want to give a song to the world that
helps people or like makes them laugh or whatever. But
when I assume that posture and I redirect, like I
(40:43):
don't like awards, I don't like lights, like I don't
like giving. I don't like because to me, it tangles
up my ego and makes it just it distracts me,
And so I think from those things. I felt a
little bit of like having to pull away from that.
As sweet as awards are, I was like, man, what
I enjoy way more? And you know, I remember sitting
in a room with Mark D. Sanders, and he was like,
(41:05):
the best, the best it ever gets is the four walls,
man inside these four walls.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
And I just had I'm just.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Recorrecting back to a place of like I gotta do
this for the I gotta go to a show and
I gotta feel people. And then I got to go
back and go, what is a song that they would
want to hear? When I'm in that stream, it's like
so fun. But when I think about, Josh, you need
another hit, you got a deal coming up?
Speaker 2 (41:24):
What about?
Speaker 1 (41:25):
What are you gonna do your fancy? Like, I just
want to shrivel up in the corner and be like,
I don't know, I'm not that good. I'm I'm better
at if you and I you're talking about your life
and you're like pour something out and like we'll write that.
I'm better at that than going the calculated part of it.
So to answer to come back to all of that, it's.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
A country Buddha. Like You've been called that never, but
I will I will take that. You's word of the badge, dude,
I will create a tech a literal badge country Buddha,
Country Buddha. Has there ever been a song called pour
Something Out, but it feels like you're it's the double meaning, right,
you guys are great at it. Pour something out and
it's pour something out. It's like well lick, except it's not.
(42:01):
It's it's opening up. Yeah, Hey, we'll treat for me
to you. We should write it. You don't want me
writing now? You don't want me writing? Hey?
Speaker 3 (42:12):
You no, no, Hey, Let's take a quick pause for
a message from our sponsor.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
Welcome back to the Bobby cast by Dirt.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Wasn't supposed to be a duo. What do you call it? Collaboration?
They only sing to each other. But you know, when
you guys write that song, was it a Jordan song
when you finished? Or did you guys all write and go,
let's just write the best song and we'll see what happens.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
I think we were where we were, you know, And
truly to your point when you say people love each other.
I love those boys man, obviously, my bros, my best
I love him deeply, the dearest friend that I could
ever have, you know. And but meeting Jacob and Jordan,
and Jacob was still doing his artist thing. Jordan like,
wasn't even when we were writing with Jacob. We hadn't
even met Jordan, and then Jordan comes in and start
(43:06):
doing his artist thing and just developing.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
So there was so much.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
There was a culmination of relationship that led to that
moment we were outside of town. I remember the morning
we were sitting outside with the coffee talking about fathers
and husbands and some of our shortcomings and and that song.
If we would have written that song in a national
writing room, it not would have been what it would
have not been what it was. It was in a way,
it felt preserved for a moment that we were vulnerable
(43:30):
about life. And then we were start talking about our
grandpas and that song happened, and immediately it felt like
a Jordan song.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
To me.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
It felt like, hey, this is personal to us all.
But like I said earlier, like I don't think any
of us were, like we knew we loved it. But
that's I was doing the demo later, going like all
I know is when I listen, I feel my hair
on my arm stand up, and I go, that is
the indicator to me that we now have to surrender
it to the world.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
But I can't.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
I know that we've done our part because I believe
in what we're saying, and so it always felt like
a Jordan song to me. You know, at that point
in his career, it was a different flavor for him
from coming off some of the other stuff. So it
was it was like almost broadening what he does a
little bit. What was You're right it Okay, it's Jordan's
gonna cut it. Then it's Jordan's cutting it.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
But Luke's what was that? How did that go? Kind
of walk me through that. Yeah, we had written, it
had been cut, and anybody cut it before Jordan. No,
we didn't even pitch it. Really.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Jordan's like, I'm cutting this and then you know, I
had done the demo. I was like, it needs I
need to make it sound like a single. So I
like done it up and it you know, it does
all the try to add energy to it. And then
Paul di Giovanni, his producer, in a masterful way, was
like not stripping it all back and he kept it small.
And I remember Jordan playing us the version and being like, Okay,
it sounds like we're laid back, and Paul's like, trust me,
(44:49):
I think this will serve the song best.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
And at that point Jordan's like, I think I'm gonna
send it to Luke.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
I think we may like And then he had sent it,
and then he kind of communicated a little bit of
the response, and I think at that point, you know,
you go, Luke Bryan, You're like, oh my gosh, like
this is all of us were like, holy smokes, this
is crazy. And it was really cool to hear his
voice on it because it felt like something, you know,
it felt true to who he is. It wasn't like
he was trying to be anything other than he was,
(45:14):
so it was beautiful and honestly, at that point Jordan
and Luke kind of formed a friendship that was cool
to see.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
As well. Give me the formula which doesn't exist, but
it does, of writing a hit song. I mean my formula,
the Nashville formula to write a hit song. What's the
Nashville formula?
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Oh gosh, A memorable melody, I think a hook that
is clever. Sometimes, well, it depends you can go the
heart route. You need to find a song that is
so such a freight train of emotion that is crafted
in such a way that you can't that you feel
lost in it. You forget you're listening to the house
(45:54):
that built me those kind of songs, or.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
What do you have ninety minutes? You only have ninety
minutes to write a hit song? What's that formula? Find
a catchy hook? Whistles and claps.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
I'm going whistles and claps. I'm going, I'm going somebody
give me a vulnerable title. If we don't have it,
we're going whistles and claps. I'm gonna see if we
can't find something, I call it fabric.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
I go, what you know?
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Music comes in and out. And there's an old obviously
uh author that said this. You know you want you
want something to have enough thing on it that you
says it just slightly like you haven't heard it. Because
we're so used, especially now, so much content. What's gonna
hit you in a way? We go, Oh, I'm gonna
listen to that.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Is it a voice? Is it a production? Is it
a progression? Is it a melody? Is it a hook?
So I would go, what are where is our secret sauce?
It's like, okay, that's our secret sauce.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Let's whistles and claps and and then we'll find a
way to get to that to where you hear it
and you go, that's the fabric on that's gonna grab
you a little bit, because that, to me, what we
want when people hear a song is them to go,
I want to hear it again, And so like, what
kind of fabric are we putting in it to grab
a hole of you. It's like if it goes down
so smooth, you don't remember anything about it, then, So
(46:59):
I would say ninety minutes. So I would do a
quick survey of what heart songs we have and if
they're if you said it, I have heart like a truck,
I'm going we're writing that song.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
I know how to do that.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Probably wouldn't have written it as good as they did,
but I will try. But I know that, like you
can weave in a little bit of the heart with
what Nashville does, which is the metaphor, which is beautiful
song length.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
It's a bit of an issue now they just edit
them down. And again I'm not directly involved what radio
or satellite radio does, but I know they like to
songs to be shorts. They move on to the next one.
You know, when we were younger, you could have a
four and a half minute so I know you can't
do that anymore. If you're writing the grade and it's long,
(47:38):
You're like, well, what are we going to cut out?
Like do we need to cut the bridge in half?
Do we need? Is that always on your mind? Like
how long the song is? Or do you wait till
it's over to make that decision?
Speaker 1 (47:47):
I kind of wait and I go to me, it's
just like a feeling. I go, Okay, this feels appropriate.
If they want a shorten it, they will. You know,
we're not going to write a bridge.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
I don't need it.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
But I normally I go, how do we preserve? To
me a song with hell? And that sounds so wacky,
like a song will tell you. But so a lot
of times I go, it feels complete, Like it feels
like if we pull that out, that just feels incomplete.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
So like, let's deliver it complete.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
And if they come back and say, hey we need
a trim it, granted, if you're making a five minute song,
you're going like, hey, i'll make a five minute song.
We just got to know that maybe they'll cut it,
but maybe it'll be track seventeen whatever you know, you may,
but I'd like even the single thing. The more I
think about that, I go, I just don't want to
miss a song because I'm trying to think about a
radio song. I go, I would rather I'd rather have
(48:30):
a song that feels like a five minute song that
people go have you heard that song on the record,
And they'd be like, well, maybe it's not a single.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
Then go like have to cut everything down. I want
to do best and worst. The best thing about the
music industry now and what's the most difficult, what's the
worst thing? Hmm.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
The best thing about the music business now is I
think it's fractured in a positive way where the structures
of songs finding their way or artists finding their way
has fractured in a way where I feel like there's
a hour shift. And as a songwriter, what I want
to see with my friends that are artists is their
ability to get music out and have some level of
(49:08):
control of that process. And you're seeing with technology obviously
that that is. I've seen people that don't have anything
going that are friends that connect and build an audience
outside of a label structure. I love labels, but I go, man,
it's nice to see that. I get excited about that
because as a creator, I go and I can write
with you and we can get stuff going and you
can connect and build something and it doesn't have to
(49:31):
be well I'm going to go I've got to go
the traditional route, and then if radio doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
We don't have a plan.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
It's like, to me, that is beautiful and also complicated,
because without radio, what a songwriters make money on?
Speaker 2 (49:43):
So snowballing off of that.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
It's the most optimistic I have been about seeing songs
connect with people and people build fan bases. It's the
most confused I've been about how do we as songwriters.
We have fifty million streams on a song, but we're
not making any money, and I'm seeing careers take off
and without a radio and labels are tentative to work singles.
(50:06):
You know, I have friends that are like, have songs
that have a ton of streams that they don't get
a single on. And so as writers are going like, man,
I want to show up every day and do this
because I love it.
Speaker 2 (50:15):
But how do we do this? You know?
Speaker 1 (50:17):
You know there's some sort of we're edging towards a
better solution. So I would say, batter the best and worst.
Maybe complicated at the moment.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
Where can the most growth happen? Right now?
Speaker 1 (50:30):
I think the most growth could happen if this is
a long shot, but this is speaking as a songwriter.
The ecosystem of music needs to I think needs to
be recalibrated in a way where songwriters can have some
level of benefit from songs not being on radio. And
(50:54):
I think it's a it's a weird world when it's
like a baseball reference. It's like, man, every time you
get up to the plate, you have to at home run.
You're like, dude, I don't know if I could do that.
I think sometimes the idea that a writer is going
to get and it get hits and so everything below
that food chain is not sustainable. To me, seems like
the whole ecosystem is suffering because of that foundation is
(51:16):
not set. So I look at all my friends and
I go, man, there's got to be a way to
include songwriters. If it's included on the mo be awesome.
If some big artist was like, hey, dude, you know what,
we're going to cut a deal. We have power with
the labels, like we're going to cut a deal and
we're going to give a ten percent of the masters
split between the writers. Like, to me, it's hard to
get that because it's not a norm at the moment,
(51:37):
But I go, that would be a game changer, And
then the ecosystem all thrives because now you're writing songs,
not trying to get a number one, but you're writing
songs because you love them, because you and I both
know right now a lot of songs that are working
don't fit the traditional radio format.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
And I go, man, I want to write.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
I want to go into a room and think about
a five minute song and what if it gets fifty
million streams but it's never a number one. I'm like,
what if we had access to any sort of ownership
on a master that the I go, then the ecosystem,
and I honestly think the main objective that I see
from that is not songwriters making a living. It is
songs getting better because writers aren't writing songs trying to
(52:13):
make something that fits in this space.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
And I go when that happens, I know a lot
of my friends man right, going, well, it's not for radio? What?
And I go, but no, what is in you? It's
beautiful and fearless and brave.
Speaker 1 (52:25):
I want to hear that song. I like, I don't
need to hear your three and a half minute beer song.
That's cool, give me your song. It's like the deep cut, Like,
that's the one I want, and I go. I think
more than ever people have an appetite for it. Writers
are scared to go there because they don't think they'll
make money, and I go, okay, let's figure that out.
So that would be a thing where I go, God,
(52:46):
that would and not just as a songwriter. I think
the ecosystem then benefits. It would set a precedent.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
If one one and a half major artists yep did it,
it would set a precedent. YEP. Now that's a lot
of sacrifice from everybody that owns I mean ten percents
a lot. But it would absolutely change the game. I've
often thought, and again this is just a cock maamy idea.
And I'll relate it to like the podcast network that
I have, and I've got six seven shows. And if
(53:13):
this show, this show does really well, this podcast here
does tons and tons of streams, and it makes a
really good amount of money. But what happens is I
make the money, but there's all We'll just give it
a number. Twenty percent of that streams down to the
other shows in the network automatically, so everybody who kills
it kills it, but we root for everybody because if
I kill it, Carolina Hobby makes a little money off
(53:35):
of it, Amy makes a little if Amy kills it.
I'm so what if you did that sort of system
on a we'll call it a project, an EP and LP.
So whatever song, let's just call it song number two,
Oh blur, my favorite song back in the day. It
crushes and gets a billion streams and gets played on
(53:56):
the radio, And well, that song there should be like
a you say ten percent of the masters, what about
ten to fifteen percent of like a profit share type
thing for all the music on that project. So the
artist is also picking songs that they are passionate about
as well as songs that they think will be hits.
And it gives people a reason to write wonderful songs
and hit songs, because you can't just write all wonderful
(54:17):
songs all the time, because you know what, you gotta
pay the bills, that's right, and art is only worth
anything as far as money goes as people buy it.
If not, you're gonna be van go and die and
then you're gonna get famous. So I always felt like
there was a profit share on a project type. Man,
that's a model, not a lot. All it takes is
a little All it takes is just a section ten
to fifteen percent of the profit that dribbles into everything.
(54:42):
But everything else dribbles back up into that too. That way,
everybody makes a little something. Man, you can have that too. Amen,
pour something out and you can have that model. Country
Buddha gonna change change the game.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
I'm just I think I feel optimistic. I think we're
in a place where Yeah, me too, I think we're
headed towards growth in a lot of ways that I
go it's going to be good for not only songwriters,
but the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (55:05):
Yeah, I agree content just in general, songs, you don't
you don't have to be anything to have a song
and build an audience. You don't have to be anything. No,
you don't have to be anywhere. It's great to be places,
and it helps the times to be places, for sure.
It helps to have a label, It helps to get
ready to play at times, it helps to get playlisted.
But if you're not that for sure doesn't mean you
can't do it. You just have to have something that
(55:27):
works it and that people that resonates with folks and
if you can do that, it's the first time I
think in my life i've seen that happen. If you're
just good, and you're good consistently, it's it's going to exist.
And that excites me. I'm with you, man, Even about content,
it excites me because it used to be Well, if
you don't have a major radio station or screw that,
(55:49):
get you a microphone. It's going to be hard. It
would be easier to be put on all these markets. Sure,
but get your box record it. And if you're so compelling,
sure you're starting from a detriment, but if it's so compelling,
you're gonna be in the game. Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah,
I agree.
Speaker 1 (56:04):
And I think even early band days, I god, well
we didn't have Instagram until you know, a little later.
But I go, all of the tools to get to people,
I go. I tell my friends, now I go. You
can't be too precious with any sort of technology. You
just use it as a way that you get access
to people. They may not react, but like you said,
the ability to connect is there. You just you gotta
be great and you gotta be consistent, like you said.
Speaker 2 (56:26):
And so I'm with you, man. I love that I
love that.
Speaker 1 (56:29):
There's it's things can catch fire and go and then
and I don't I love labels, but I go, I
like that like they have to then go what we
didn't think that. I go, that's good for the business.
It's good that like sometimes you don't know. Sometimes Joe
Smow from wherever that plays on a guitar in his
bedroom has more streams than your artist that it's on radio,
(56:49):
And I go, that's good for music.
Speaker 2 (56:50):
That's how music should be. It's a little bit of
the wild West. I feel enlightened. I'm be honest with you.
I feel country unlightened. Dud. I'm gonna carry that with me.
He should. I'm gonna carry with me too, out of here.
What's the goal? That's a very vague, broad question, purposefully,
but what's the goal I'm chasing.
Speaker 1 (57:11):
I'm chasing purpose amidst a business that is built on
being commercial and successful on radio. So I'm trying to
the goal for me at this point is looking inward
and trying to chase the songs that I want to write.
(57:32):
And they're not ones that come I know. To get
to the songs I want to write takes a unique
path because I want to write diddies and uptempo and
they don't have to be slow. But this, like I said,
mentors I have in the songs I'm trying to get to,
I go, I'm gonna have to do a little bit
of I can't be chasing success. So that's the next
(57:54):
chapter for me, is going, Okay, we've had some we've
got the monkey off the back, dig into your soul
and dig into tune into the world, and go what
needs to be said and how are you going to
chase and pursue those ideas? That is your purpose going forward.
It's not to go I personally to each his own.
My objective is not I want to make a living
doing this because I have four kids, But I go, God,
(58:17):
it's better when I feel connected to the purpose and
not just go like I want to go have a
bunch of hits.
Speaker 2 (58:22):
I want to do that.
Speaker 1 (58:24):
I want to have songs that work to make money,
to provide for my family and my life. But ultimately,
the most satisfying thing is hopefully writing a song that
says something and green reve ordinance. That's right, what's up,
it's coming. We're gonna We're gonna do a reunion show.
Another one in the in the spring, and once again
I go, I think there was a period of our
(58:45):
career that I was like, we're thinking about you're thinking
about what do people want to hear? Versus Hey, this
is what I want to say. We created backwards, Well
we need to what do people want to hear? Let's
create And I think I'm back to a place of going,
let's just tell the truth. And so so I'm excited
about that as a thirty eight year old going, let's
just make some music that feels truthful to us, as
thirty eight year olds that have been through marriages falling
(59:07):
apart and valleys and mountains, and let's put some stuff
in a thing. And just like you have said, let's
we have the ability to connect, why wouldn't we do
this even if there's a couple of thousand people that
it starts a conversation with and you get that email
and you've had it with your show and everything that
you do. It's like when someone hits you it said, men,
thank you for what you do, like you have helped me,
(59:28):
or hey man, this song is our daughter's song, or
what you said on that joke whatever. It's like those
kind of trickle down valuable things on a soul level
or go I want to engage in those conversations, and
not not in an ego way, but in a way
where I go, man, why not?
Speaker 2 (59:44):
I like it? I like I like you, and I'll
end with that. It's pretty, it's pretty astute, it's pretty.
I like you. I'll take it. Yeah, we have, you know,
a lot of mutual friends. Yeah, I've been a big
fan of you for a long time, but before I
knew you, and I don't feel like I know you
know you now, but I we've met, and yeah, we
definitely have mutual friends. So I am a big fan.
Good luck, man. I know the New Jordan's song too Soon,
(01:00:05):
Too Late is now on the chart, and for your sake,
I hope it doesn't become a hit. Well, I hope
it's just an art song that people related to. Oh no,
you don't want that, I know. Here's the deal we
thread about. I said I got to make a living
if I was getting equity.
Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
Shit.
Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
No, but it's that's the song that I love. And yeah,
I'm just kidding you know, I'm messing with you. It's
just an easy one, easy, all right, you guys follow
we told you at the beginning of this Josh C.
Jenkins on Instagram Josh Jenkins music dot com A huge fan.
Good luck and I'll see you at the next CMA's
or wherever you're getting your awards. Thanks pretty cool, I
appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (01:00:38):
Thanks for listening to a Bobby Cast production
He and part of this wisdom to he stuck with me.
He said, we're in the service industry. The place that
I'm just fighting to be in and live in and
plant myself in is.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
We create music for people. Episode four twenty three of
The Bobby Cast with Josh Jenkins. There's a lot to Josh.
Let's talk about a couple of number ones. Jordan Davis
by Dirt Badger, I'm no one. You can't write that.
Also a writer on Walker Hayes. Fancy like yeah, we
fancy like the current song he's got on the chart
(00:36):
right now? Is Tucson too late? With Jordan Davis, I'm
crazing through the desert. They can back and really as
a wonderful writer. But I've been a fan of this
guy even as an artist. He is the lead singer
and writer and you know, just the guy in Green
River Ordnance and this is dancing shoes, food on lou
(00:58):
Nancy and shoes singing, which is super cool, Like it's weird.
I get to be a fan of him in like
two different versions. Josh Jenkins a Grammy nominated singer songwriter.
He's had ours recorded from Walker Hayes, Jordan Davis Dustin Lynch,
Randy Houser, a whole bunch more. He's tall, I don't know,
(01:21):
he's super thoughtful, smart, very philosophical, very much. So it's kind.
I didn't know that him and one of my friends
were as close as they are until after this interview.
He brings it up and then I called him and
he was I'll let you hear it later, but he
was like, that's one of my best friends since like college.
And I was like, that's weird. And I said, do
you like Green River Ordinance? And he goes, you know,
(01:41):
Green River Ordinates. You know, we had a whole thing,
you know. But he's from Fort Worth, Texas. He had
a family band. As a kid, he started writing songs
with his brother, Matt Jenkins, who's a big writer when
you know they were younger. So I'm just gonna play
this for you. Thought this was great. This is one
of those days too, if I'm being honest, where we
had a lot going on and we were leaving town
for a few days, just backed up one to the next. However,
(02:03):
I really enjoyed this and I was able to slow
down and just sit with Josh and talk. Where sometimes
if I'm just so wired and maybe me and the
guests aren't clicking as much, it won't be like that.
But this was really good, so hope you guys enjoy it.
You can follow Josh at Josh C. Jenkins on Instagram
Josh see Jenkins, or go to Josh Jenkins music dot com.
(02:24):
And here we go the Bobbycast with Josh Jenkins. Josh,
how are you, Budy? Doing good? Doing good? So today
you were doing what? Because I was listening, But then
I wanted to stop listening because I didn't want you
to say it and to get my reaction before I
gave it to you for real. So you had all
these songs that you wrote that you feel like they're
probably good songs, but they weren't cut. Yeah, and so
(02:45):
now you're gonna play them. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
So the band that I was in grew up in
a band called Greenover Ordinance out of Texas.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I loved Greenover Ordinance.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Did I have a funny story about you? And that
I mean loved, Well, you were kind, you were you
were still in Texas. My cousin texted me and she
just said, Bobby Bones just played dance and shoes.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah. So I was a massive fan. Well, that was.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
That was when we left our label, left the label
Capitol in New York, and then we went independent and
then that song released and people like yourself supported it
as an independent band, it changed the game for us.
But we hadn't made music in like ten years, and
I'm you know, I've been writing all these songs and
I was like, I was like, there's no better time.
I was just songs that I love that are near
and dear to me. I was like, it's time to
(03:27):
put some music out. So all the guys are coming
in town. Three of us live here, but the other
two still live in Texas, So they're all coming in
town next week.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Do you feel like the songs that you're cutting? And
allow me just to geek out a little bit because
I'm I was a huge fan, still am a huge fan.
Didn't know it had been ten years since you guys
had had worked on I knew it had been a while,
I didn't know ten years. Are these songs that you've
written specifically for the group, for you? Are these songs
that you've written just generally speaking, And like, dang, that's
a good song and I still have it right here.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
I would say eighty percent of them are songs that
specifically wrote for the band, and then there's one or
two that fits. My biggest kind of objective with the
whole thing was like, I don't want this to sound
like songs that I wrote for whoever that are now
green riverse songs. I was like, so I really we
did a reunion show. This is what kicked it up.
We did a reunion show in Texas two nights, one
(04:15):
in Dallas and one in Fort Worth, kind of not knowing,
and both of them sold out and a bunch of
people flew in, and I was like, I started getting
sentimental about all the time with the band, and so
I started thinking about songs that would be personal to us,
as you know guys that you know a couple of
us are married and have multiple kids and just like
that point of life. And so I embarked on trying
to write for that. And there's a few songs that
(04:37):
I've written written in town that will probably shape up
as well, but some of most of it's pretty personal
to the band.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Thinking of well, I guess we used to call them
g RRO. That's right, thinking of that, and also thinking
of some of the songwriting stuff that you've done where
you haven't been the face of it like Fancy, like
with Walker. Yep, it's very different, a way different. It's
very absolutely, it is very very different. Yeah. And so
is that a place that you had to get as
a writer when you got to Nashville, where you had
(05:06):
to transition from You've been doing all this stuff for
Green River, I would just call them g R O.
I don't want to be two in the weeds here.
But now you're you're in Nashville and you're trying to
write songs and people are going to record and are
going to be on the charts. It's it seems a
bit like it's a different version of what a lot
of people do where they come from out of country,
and then they're like, I got to figure out to
(05:27):
write country where you're going from? I mean you're as country.
I mean that's just country as it gets a version
of it. And now it's like I'm going to come
and write some for lack of a better term, pop country. Yeah,
that was that a shift.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yeah, you know, a lot of it was my upbringing
and or upbringing to music was I was a product
of my dad was a traditional country you know, songwriter,
and we played opryes in Texas, so I grew up
on like Geene Watson, Merle Haggard songs as like a
twelve year old, and then I got into like Mashbox
twenty and Third Out Blind and all of the more
pop rock things. So as a kid, I was kind
(06:00):
of consuming all of it. And then as Green Ever
came about, it started as a blues rock band that
folded into kind of a rootsy country Texas thing like
Americana Texas a specific exactly, yeah, and it had a
little pop influence and so but stylistically I loved so
much music that come into Nashville. It really trained me
how to go hey, when you enter the room, like
(06:22):
you have like a proverbial palette of colors you can
paint with, and like when you enter in with certain
artists you get to open up certain parts of your
creative thing. Like with Walker, it's like we get to
open up all these colors that like otherwise I wouldn't
be able to say or use. And so some of
my like I used to add our shows with freestyle
or whatever like that kind of thing, and so there
was elements of that that were like, man, I get
(06:43):
to bring that into some of this music that's not
greenervert at all, and so it was pretty fun. It
was definitely a learned thing. I was like, how do
I tap into that part of my brain?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
But yeah, it's muscles that you've used, but not in
situations like you'll be using them now, ye, which is
super cool to see. And I definitely want to go
through your story, but and I rarely just start with
the songs, but I do want to do a couple
of the songs first, and let's start with Walkers as
we brought that up fancy like, which just was I mean,
(07:12):
it was humongous. It was a shifter. It shifted, It
shifted all of it. It shifted people on TikTok going, oh,
I can also be a country artist.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
It shifted country artists to go I should be on TikTok.
It shifted songs getting in commerce, I mean it, which
it did a lot. And I when the song was written,
it probably wasn't assumed it would do all that because
nothing does that. So tell me about that day and
who walks in the room when you finished it, where
you're like, this is good, but I've written with the
(07:40):
walker before. When you finished the Walker. It's definitely a
Walker Yep. It's like, well, this is a Walker thing. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So what was that whole the whole day? Was it
memorable at all? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (07:52):
It was, And it was memorable in a personal way.
It was you know, obviously we were coming back into
the rhythm of writing in the room and after Covid
and I had known Walker for so long. We were
writing back at the shack forever ago, and you know,
and so I'd known him forever, and we would write
a ton of songs that I love, and I just
grew to admire who he was as a person, his
(08:14):
story and his craft. And so that day, man, I
would be honest, I was a little like coming in
a little burned out, and I looked at my calendar.
I was like, if it wasn't Walker, I wouldn't be
on this day.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
And but I show up.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I know with Walker we're going to have great conversation
and laugh. And I never had met Shane Stevens or
Cambo before. And we walked in the room and none
of us had the idea or anything. All that we
had was we started talking about life and journey and
Walker's story with addiction. It was really because I had
never met Shane Stevens and we just started. He was
sharing his story and so it was just really awesome,
(08:45):
you know, hour and a half of like life stuff.
And then Walker's like, I want to write some fun
and he's like he had just finished country stuff and
he's like, my cruise hyped about this country stuff song. Word,
let's write something fun that's all with Jake. Yeah, got it,
And so he grabs it. He's kind of talking and
he's like, and I grab a guitar and I'm kind
of jamming, and he starts talking about how people obviously
(09:05):
think they're bougie because he's in a band, he's an artist,
and he goes the nicest restaurants and he's like, I
just loaded the kids in the van and we go
to waffle House or Applebee's. And so we literally had
no idea. We started jamming and fumbled out fancy like
and and then and then Walker and Chewalker fashion spits
out the first two lines of the chorus. We're like,
oh my gosh, what is this? And then like two
(09:25):
hours later we had the song and just laughed and
had a lot of fun. But I remember Robert Carlton
was like before I went in the room, He's like,
we need a Walker radio song, And I was like,
what won?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
What is that too?
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I left there going, this is probably the most fun
I've ever had in a room. But I don't know
if people will play it. You know, you have a
perceived idea of what radio would play.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
And that was that.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
I loved it and I thought it was super fun.
But like Walker, I go, I don't know where this lives.
I just know I love it. And uh, and then
it got His team heard it and were hyped on it,
and then and then he did the day and it
was just like this thing where there was no calculation.
The thing I love about the story of Fancy like
is there was zero calculation for a TikTok.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Dance or like we need to get a brand so someone.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
It was literally we had a lot of fun and
then it saw the domino of people responding really sent
the song to where it went. It was no sort
of calculation or like big machine that was like we're
going to push this over the mountain.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
We got a huge label. It felt it felt.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Like from our end that when the TikTok dance happened,
and people started grabbing a hold of it that it
just started moving in such a way that we just
kind of held on for it, and the whole ride
was like kind of.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Surreal because it was zero expectation for what it did.
Those days in a writing room when everybody's just kind
of talking. Again, you're far more knowledgeable, far more experience
than I am, but mostly you sitting there and talk
because you don't have really an idea to jump on immediately.
It's like, hey, good to see you. And if you
meet somebody new, you're like, hey, what's up, we'll talk.
But if you got something, yeah, and you got something
that you really brought to the room on purpose, you're like,
(10:59):
I feel good about this, let's go. Yeah. Some days
you just don't, even if it's not a songwriting room,
even if it's i' trying to write jokes, I'm like, man,
I just burnt out. Was that a bit of what
that was? Or did you try some ideas and just
didn't hit and then you ended up an hour and
a half later going let's do this, Like what did
the room start at?
Speaker 1 (11:17):
It was, honestly, there was no sort of Sometimes you
walk in a room and you feel the.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Pressure like what are we going to write today?
Speaker 1 (11:24):
It literally just felt, you know, and kind of like
I'm thankful that it did a very peaceful like getting
to know so I don't even know how we got
into the conversation about Shane and I started talking about
his story and where he's been, and then Walker starts
chiming in, and it really just felt like we didn't
even get around even throwing any idea. Really, it just
(11:45):
was literally like to the point that, you know, not
to be emo, but like there was moments of like
almost tears of like the journey of of Shane's story
and then Cambo being from California, and then but Walker
really kind of sharing a lot of his story in
that way because obviously I've had a lot of ton
of conversations with Walker, but not with Shane Stevens, you know,
in that dynamic, and so it was really beautiful. Honestly,
(12:07):
it was like the honestly I thought I had a
moment in the right before we wrote this song, thinking
are we going to write a song today? And if
we don't, I'm not even mad about it because I'm
loving Like it felt like a therapy session in a way,
and so that to me felt like it primed the
whole room felt like, man, we really got to know
each other. And then and then fancy like happened and
(12:28):
the rest is crazy.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
This is where you're mature as a human, way more
mature than I am. Because I would be in the
room and everybody talking, myself included, and I would go, Man,
they feel like I'm wasting their time, Like we've talked
for forty minutes and I know I don't know these guys.
They didn't come to Nashville to have a therapy session. Yeah.
I would start to worry about that and be concerned
because I wouldn't have the security in myself to just
(12:50):
sit back and let it happen. Yeah. But had it
not happened, the song probably would have never come out. Yeah.
So that being said, are there times that happens but
there's no song ever written at all? Yeah? And do
you leave going why did I just spend four hours there? Yeah?
Because I would.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yeah, I do think you you feel anxiety sometimes in
a room you're like or you come in with something
you know you like and you're itching to get to it.
I think the times that I have been like really
just relaxed, like let the song come to you, let
the field the room. And I do think there's a
time when you're like, hey, y'all, we got to write
a song, but.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
That five minutes in, Yeah, shut up, write a song.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
But sometimes, and I found this true, is you kind
of you know, the best scenario is there is an
energy of like getting to know each other or catching up,
and then in that you can oh, you said something
and that may be a better idea than what you had.
It's like sitting in the room with Shane and Josh
oh or whoever. Like their ability. I've learned from their
(13:48):
ability to banter and to like play off each other
and talk. It kind of like loosens any sort of
creative anxiety you get in a room you're like, Okay,
write a song and it's like dance and you're like,
well I don't, and versus hey, like, let's relax and
so a lot of that I feel like I'm trying
to implement of just getting a lot of reps and
doing it going. Man, I feel like I'm personally better
(14:09):
when there's a little bit of like a you know,
we're like there's a little bit of a relaxing you know,
stretching up in there.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
But I do get the thought of, like y'all and
there's been I would feel bad. I would feel guilty, yeah,
because I would feel like they think I'm wasting their time.
Even if they didn't, even if everything about them said
they're in the moment having a good time, I would go,
they think I'm a loser and I have no idea,
and I'm trying to just go yeah, so good for you.
That's a compliment, Like you're mature enough to sit in
it some days, some days not some days. I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
I'm like, we got to write a song because I'm
looking at my clock, going, oh, I gotta like, how
much time do we have? And then I have to
remind myself a song doesn't have to be built in
the day, and I gotta go. Our town can be
really good about songsong song, But like it's cool even
if we get there's a little old school voice that
I've heard from mentors of mine being like, hey, dude,
we used to break for lunch. We used to be
We used to like if you got a good idea
(14:57):
in a day, like there's a little bit of a
you know, one of my mentors is Alan Shambling.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
He's like, man, if you've got a good idea, you
leave that day.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Hi, You're like yes, So it's like we might look
all day for And that voice is one that I
try to keep present versus the current state of song
song song, because I get you. You're like, we got
to be out here by four, and I got this
and I got that, and sometimes you just miss the
good ones.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
And I think with me, it wouldn't even be about me,
it would be about them. I would just be like,
they have to have stuff to do, exactly. It's like
I feel when I'm talking to anybody. I don't go
to a bunch of parties because I'm not that cool.
But if I'm in any social setting and I'm talking
to somebody, but there's also like forty twenty eight people
around and I'm talking to somebody face to face, I'm like,
they do not even though we're having a conversation. I'm like,
they don't want to talk to me any They definitely
want to go somewhere else and talk to somebody else
(15:40):
where the conversation is probably a little better, and I
would be feeling that yeah, in the room. But you know,
some of us are mature like you. Some of us aren't.
I'm with you. So that song, it's weird that you
don't that TikTok doesn't pay for music. Oh gosh, dude,
I wish they did. I asked them.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I was like, because at one point they were like, look,
how many people have reused your song?
Speaker 2 (15:57):
And I was like, do we get paid for that?
Speaker 1 (15:59):
And they're like, in the true music business fashion, yeah,
I think somebody worked out a deal somewhere and it
was just like the most vague and I was like, oh, cool, cool,
that doesn't sound promising.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
And luckily it translates yep. But we had a song,
a Christmas song that Eddie and I really called Elf
on the Shelf, and it was all Christmas. It was
just getting spread and played like crazy and I was like, oh,
I can't wait to see the chick. Oh I have
a TikTok doesn't pay anything. Yeah. Yeah. That sucked. Yeah,
And we didn't even nobody even carried outside of TikTok,
so we made like literally nothing. That song blew up
(16:31):
so much it really couldn't be denied in that I
don't deal with music as far as country music on
the radio. I don't pick songs or anything, but I
remember a lot of the executives going, do we play this?
But it was just such a jack hammer that if
you didn't play it, you were going to be a loser.
It wasn't even they wanted to run to play it. Ye, yeah,
(16:52):
because it was so not what people were used to.
So it wasn't people racing out to go, let's get
fancy like on. It was people hold had as long
as they possibly could. It was crazy to see bro
id that trickled down and I heard a lot about that. Yeah,
I was crazy. It was a weird.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Mix of emotions because on one hand, you're like, this
is so fun. It's such a wild ride, and that
would That was my first number one. Not that number
ones matter, but it was my first song that was
that impactful, and I was like, oh gosh, is country
radio gonna play My insecure mind was like, is country
really gonna play it? You know, And you get all
the you know, you feel like there's probably resistance on it,
(17:28):
but at the end of the day, it was it
was you know, it was wild to see it.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
It was total resistance, but it still broke through. Yeah,
even with it may be the most resisted song I've
ever seen. Yeah, at the same time, it was also
a number one song and a pop culture moment, you know,
because I would be flipping through satellite radio and be
on the pop station and I would hear it, Yeah,
that's big. That doesn't happen very often. No, and I'm
assuming that song you did pretty well even with twenty
(17:54):
five percent split. It was great.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Yeah, I have four kids, four kids now. Actually I
remember a moment where it was. It was it was
on the commercial and it was during fall college football,
and I kept getting text from my buddies being like,
if I hear your song one more time the Applebe's commercial,
And I was like, buddy, just know this. Every time
you hear it that I'm buying diapers from my kids.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
So every time it gets used anywhere, are you making money?
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Like yeah, I think television, television, and yeah, TV and
stuff is great like that that makes that's actually gets
to us and then obviously radio. But outside of that, TikTok, nothing, nothing,
But you know, you realize at that point this song
would have not been what. I don't believe without the
TikTok completely. It doesn't happen.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Absolutely I agree, and also getting lucky with the algorithm.
I've seen some things that are awesome not catch, yep,
and I've seen some things that are like why catch
and be massive? You caught and it was great yep.
We rode the way. It was the rare both of
them hit. The product was amazing and the algorithm hit
and people kept spreading it and it worked. It's it's
(18:57):
just such a lightning and a bottle type thing. And
to catch lining in a you gotta have lightning. That's it.
And he had lightning.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
We didn't know we had. We knew he liked it,
we knew he loved it. But that's the beauty of
this business is you don't you go. I've surrendered a
little bit of the ideas like is this a hit
or not a hit? I just go, Man, do I
love it. At the end of the day, people will decide.
But I think we all left going we love this song.
Whatever it is, I don't know. And it was just
a cool kind of coming back point to go and
as creators we just had to love it and then
(19:24):
send it out in the world. And then sometimes you
just sometimes it goes and sometimes you get the rocket
ship hang tight.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
The Bobby Cast will be right back. Wow, and we're
back on the Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
What was it growing up like for you? What was
the town that you grew up in.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
We grew up in a town thirty minutes west of
Fort Worth called Aledo, Texas. They hold this the amount
of state championships in Texas, so it's like Friday night
lights five. I was not good at sports at all. Football,
football school, football town. Yeah, And my bro and I
grew up playing music with my mom and dad. We
were in a family band and we would travel around
Texas and play these little opryes Hole in the Wall, Cleeburn, Wileye, Weatherford, Grapevine,
(20:09):
anywhere that would have a little house band and they
would play predominantly.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Old country music. And that's what you guys did. That's
what we did.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
And the crowd was predominantly forty plus an age, and
we grew up singing George Jones and Geene Watson and
Meryl Haggard songs and Tracy Byrd and all the early
country and we were just that was our school into music.
That was what only music I thought existed, really, and
then grew up and then my brother was like I
want to go to Nashville and be an artist. And
then I joined Green River as a fifteen year old
(20:38):
and was like, I don't want to be a country artist.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
And I don't want to, you know, I went.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
So it was like it became we each kind of
went our own separate ways, but mom and dad were supportive.
And then I joined the band and we were playing
in high school slinging CDs and and then and went
to college for a year, and then a manager that
was our manager for a long time, and me, Paul Steele,
was like, hey, out of school after a year, and
let's we're going to buy a van and trailer. We're
(21:03):
going to tour independently for two years, playing every place
we can. We're going to hustle and try to get
a record deal. So we made zero dollars for the
longest time, just like I think I was making a
thousand dollars a month, enough to pay rent and get
some food. And then we were traveling in the van
and doing the thing. And then we got a hold
of Capital Records out of New York and sign a deal.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
So that was my Green River journey. So you're in
college for you to where'd you go to school TCC baby,
and so man, I would say it was fortunate your
parents were musicians, but I don't think you would have
been in the place anyway without your parents being yeah,
musicians and music lovers. So what was their story? What
did they want to do when they were seventeen eighteen
years old?
Speaker 1 (21:42):
My mom she worked at the courthouse in Fort Worth
as like a twenty year old, and she worked there
her whole life and she left to go work at
a at a law firm. That came back, but that
was her story. She worked bottom up and then straight
from just like interning to then working with a judge.
Did she want to be an artist? She never, she
just my dad was the creator. I remember as a kid,
(22:04):
my dad would get a yellow legal pad and he
would be writing hooks out. And my dad, at that
point in time, was working full time, created as a
graphic design company, was not able to go do music
because of us. But he loved music so much and songs.
He said, if you're going to play music, write your
own songs, and so we would do the family band thing.
But he also is like he would always just write
(22:27):
hooks out and he would I remember sheets and sheets
of hooks that he would write and he would be like,
that was his passion, and so that kind of spilled
over onto my brother and I. He would send us
into separate rooms and say, write a song. Is like
eleven year olds each you go into the room and
write a song and bring it back.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
We'll play it.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
And so they loved music. I think my mom loved music,
but because of my dad's passion, she just was like, hey,
he taught her how to sing harmony. And then we're
off in the races as a family band.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
And that was older than you write. Two years. Yeah,
two years. It's kind of a long time when you're brother.
It's not once you get older. But what did he
was he like a big older brother to you? Did
it feel or did you guys feel like buddies? We
felt I mean he felt like a big older brother.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
I mean he's the more like dominant alpha and I'm
probably more like reserved, emotional quiet one. And so you know,
we never wrote together ever until probably the last six
or so years. We never, at no point our childhood,
wrote a song together. I think we stylistically just were
a part of maybe our egos were like you know,
the brotherly thing, the brotherly competition. So I was doing
(23:28):
the band thing. He never wrote on any of that,
and then he was doing his artist thing, which then
it turned into a writing thing. And so it wasn't
until honestly, right around the time we met Jordan that
we started writing together, which is crazy.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
That's pretty wild that you grew up in the same
house with the same parents. Yeah, doing the same music. Yeah. Yeah,
you don't hop in and go, let's creatively do something together.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yeah, it's weird looking back now because we're so close
in that regard.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Did you avoid it then or was it he doesn't like,
because I'm sure you didn't go we're never going to
write together, yeah, Or did just not come up. I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Maybe there was just like some brotherly Stylistically we kind
of were different, but I think maybe there was some
brotherly like competition, like healthy competition.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Did you look up to him.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
I've always looked up to him, Yeah, you know, especially
you know he came to town and was doing the
artist thing and I was doing the label thing out
in New York, grinding, and we shared similar struggles in
that regard, like he was on Universal South and music
never came out and I was on the band, and
then we left the label, and so we were always
aligned in that regard. Stylistically a little different, but aligned
(24:31):
in the journey of music. And so but I always
have looked up to him. He is truly my best
you know, outside of my wife. He's my best butt
in town. And so it's been really sweet.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
But your mom and dad creative, they're singing, they're playing music,
but they're also they have stable jobs. Yeah, so you
don't anymore. I know, because when you said you were
in the family band, and I knew that by reading
about you, I was like, well, then his parents were like,
run be free because we were no they had real jobs,
they had to pay a mortgage. Yeah, so what do
(25:03):
they say when you're like, I'm checking out of here,
you're in college, I'm going so they say, go ahead,
but then come back if it's not working.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
That's pretty much all of the parents in the band
and my parents were like, hey, you're young, you have
time to go do this. If this doesn't work out,
you can always come back. But even you know, throughout
the years of the band that were like, you know,
being in a band is incredibly hard because of the
economics of splitting it five ways, and but we we
built a following. But even then, you know, when I
met my wife and we're scrapping by and I'm in
(25:30):
the band still and we're the shows are great, but
you know, you just it's just hard. My parents have
always been like, what do you want to do, Like
you're a man now, if you want to if you
can make that work. But they never at one point
were like, you need to get off the road or
you need to stop doing this, because they trusted me
to make that decision.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
So why'd you move to Nashville.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
I was traveling with the guys and we were doing
that and I kept coming to town and being around
my bros. Crew and seeing this kind of creative engine
that when I was off the road with Green River,
it just I didn't really have that. And I think
at that point in my mind, I started thinking about
do I want a tour for the rest of my
life or like for the most of my you know,
(26:12):
until I can't anymore to make a living. And I
was like, I don't think I do. I really felt
like I had met my wife Jules, and I'd started
thinking about like the next five six years and so
moving to Nashville was a way for me to invest
in things, being in a community that would provide an opportunity,
no promises, but to pursue something that would I could
be here and be around my family and so that
(26:33):
was start of the start of that thought process for me.
So coming to town was a little bit on. My
bro was like, you should be here, you would love it,
you would do great. And also just going, you know,
let's get out of Texas. Let's go to Nashville and
see if there's some something for us up there outside
of the band.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
So what do you do when you get here, because
it's not like there's a big pot of gold waiting
for you, like, oh yeah, dud, Josh's coming, here's here's
your money. Like what do you do because it doesn't
feel like you're coming with the dreams of pursuing full
artistry because you gotta get back on the road again.
And you know what that's like. That sucks. It's hard, yeah,
and it's awesome, but it sucks. Yeah. So you're kind
of starting over, starting over.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I mean, Cobalt was adminting all the band stuff, and
so they were plugged in here with writers.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
And it was a good transition because the.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Band was still going and there was still money, and
there's still work to be had and music out and
a lot of things we were doing. It was a
time where that kind of covered us to get here.
I mean, granted, my wife worked at US. She's a
math major from A and M. And she worked for
a Texas energy company, so she was carrying us because
I wasn't making a ton of money. But it was
(27:36):
a scenario that the transition to that was like, hey,
this is going to be a process. I didn't expect
my mind, I'm going to go to Nashville and like
how they hit tomorrow And she deserves an award for
how patient. And she's been along the journey for a
long time. You know, we've been here for twelve years.
So I came in and I just dove straight into
the songwriting thing, and it was it was hard. It
was a learning curve for.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Sure, writing co writes with Randoms. Yes, especially at first.
That's that's that's new, right, Yeah, just walking in the room.
I never met you, Let's write a song. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Because the band, the way I wrote with the band
was always much it was like a free open ride
when I want to write, and then you come to
Nashville and it's very much like show up. You get
a do you have an idea, and it really in
a tough way you learn the craft right it like
it works. You over to go, oh I got to
be prepared or oh, I like I got to learn
more about how this works. And so it was definitely
(28:30):
a learning curve. And I even listened back to the
songs I thought were good and they're not. They were
like these are these are bad? And I was writing
them at the time.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
You do.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Sometimes you don't see your growth until you listen back
and go, goodness gracious, like those were tough. But I
had a team around me that was willing to kind
of invest, and that really got the ball rolling in
that way.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Did you have super fans that were like, hey, why
aren't you putting out music? Yeah, what's up?
Speaker 1 (28:52):
At that point, we were putting out music, and I
think the band's profile, like having dance and choosing some songs,
it helped me transition into town because people are like, oh,
we've heard a green of ordinance, like we'll write with Josh,
and so that helped me and we at that time
were still putting music out, so it wasn't like we
had gone dark yet.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
You mentioned a mentor earlier. Tell me who that was
again and how did he end up being your mentor?
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Well, Alan Shanmlin has just been a buddy. I met
him through Robin Palmer a long time ago, and my
brother and I have just connected with him at different
points in our career and I took he took me
to coffee forever ago, and you know, he is just
he kind of embodies a little bit of what.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
I kind of aspire to be as a creator.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
And he moves at such a beautiful, peaceful, slow pace
because his process is so different than the song song, song,
song song thing. He's very methodical and just like patients
of creating something beautiful. And you know the songs he's written,
the House That Built Me and I Can't Make You
Love Me and Don't Laugh At Me and his story.
You know how those songs came about, and the patients
(29:58):
it took to get there trickle down into our process
going like you know, we want, we're we're trying to like, Okay,
we're just twenty twenty three. There's a different climate of
creating music but we can lean back and learn a
little bit from that. And so he's just been we
you know, he's been a dear friend. We actually were
My bro and I were flying out to Colorado to
do a private gig and he happened to be on
(30:19):
our flight, and so we're like, you know, hugged him
and we sat and talked for two hours and he.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Sit there and he talked about life and the soul
of what we do.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
And you know, he said this about music, and I
admire it. He said, music is spiritual, like what we do.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
It's not all.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
We live at the crossroads of the art and commerce.
And he carries like you can hear it in house
that built me Like here. He really tries to get
to the soul of in the heart of what needs
to be said, and he takes the time to say it.
And so he's been a person, not only personally but professionally.
I just I always go, man, I just want that
to I want to be baptized in that thought a
(30:52):
little bit.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Did you ever write early on when you move to
town and you're writing with whomever. For me, it was
probably when I first moved here was Miller, because I
was just like, I mean, he'd written Jamie Johnson, he
had written you know you, and I was just like,
this is crazy. And Nelly and I are friends, but
I was just like, I can't. I'm actually a little
bit intimidated. Yeah, and here I am trying to write
comedy music with a guy who's got a ton of success,
(31:15):
and I was I don't really know what to do.
I was a little bit I felt like over my
skis caught up. Yeah, it was all good, But who
was that for you? Whenever you moved to town and
you're like, I'm writing with I don't know a B
or C. Or you got in a room and you
didn't know them and all of a sudden, I mean
they're throwing one hundred and three miles on our fastballs. Oh.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
There was plenty of those where people are seasoned in
and you're like, I don't know what I'm doing and
you're insecure and you're going, I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
I'm not good at this. Can I do this? You know?
Speaker 1 (31:42):
I think coming into town there was just there was
just you know, people that had been doing it, you know.
And I remember sitting in the room with Josh oh
and Josh Osborn and Trevor Rosen, and they were kind
of enough. They were fans of the band and they
were friends of my bros. And we wrote and I
was just like trying to keep up, and I was
like it was they were so good and so like
on the track that I just was like, I got
(32:03):
a long way to go. I got some learning to do.
And so, you know, battling through insecurity and self doubt
and all the things to stick with it and see
that slow progression. But those guys and the beauty of
this town is everybody, nobody. I really haven't had a
write where somebody made me feel bad about myself, which
I'm thankful for because I know those exist. But so
everybody was always supportive. But I always felt like, man,
(32:24):
I got a waste. I got some work to do.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
You know who is super cool? Can't mention those two
dudes already or three? You can't mention any of those Shane, Josh,
And you can't mention maybe else you say a minute ago,
any name you've mentioned. You can't mention who is super cool?
Maybe became friends with them, Maybe he just loved being
being around them. I'll vamp while you do that for me,
(32:47):
it was Jim Bievers and at this point Jim and
I have written thirty comedy songs together, right, and I
was just like, this dude's funny. He's also written red
solo cup. He's also written Tim McGraw, but he's like hello,
and I was like, I gotta be this guy's friends.
And then we started playing with them. We're friends more
than anything professional now, like who was super cool? The
(33:08):
writing room made a friendship with who?
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Hmm, goodness gracious. There's so many of them. I'm trying
to think like a really good one.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Early on, there was.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
A girl named Robin Lerner who wrote She's my kind
of Reign, and she was yeah, and she was masterful
at like melody in this element of like commercial and
poetic in this thing, and so early on, like being
in a room with her and watching her kind of
craft was I remember that was that was impactful on
(33:45):
me because I was like, oh my gosh, like I'd
never seen that was one of my most impactful early rights.
That was just she was kind and she was gracious.
And from then obviously there's people that you meet I
think you know people before, but like the lorries of
the World and the Allen of the World.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
And the.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Obviously I can say Shane because I'm part of the
Shame Company. But I think those kind of people what
they did for me is they never had an ego
in the room and I think that's unique to me.
Just you kind of go and go and this person's
gonna be like they have the right to be whatever,
and I go, oh, Like there's a graciousness to those
guys like Shane. The way he creates is so gracious
(34:23):
and collaborative and building up of you know, your your
co writers that I was. That has floored me to
be in the room with people like that that were like, oh, dang,
you deserve you could be whatever, but you're not.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
That's funny that you mentioned that because I had done
a couple of things with Walker and he is a
confidence giver mm hm, because I know what I A'm
good at and walk and be like that's it, yeah,
come on, yeah, WHOA And I'm like maybe I am.
And I knew I wasn't, but I was like, maybe
I am. Okay, like that you're you're right. There was
a real confidence even that Walker would give me that
(34:59):
I would be like, make me better honestly because heart
rate we go down a little bit so you could
actually breathe, so you could actually whatever perform means right create.
But there is it's a superpower. Yes, some people have.
It is to instill confidence and folks actually let them
be a better yea performer. Ye.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
It brings out the best in everybody. And I think
there's a I've learned that from them, and I try
to carry that. I go like, man, if you leave
the room and if someone feels small because you've been
in the room with them, I'm like, this is not
this is we haven't met our purpose here. Like being
with those guys and they build you up and they
give you confidence. You don't see yourself like that's it.
You know, when shame looks like that's it.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Go with that. You're like, you go, oh, maybe maybe
I kind of know what I'm doing. You know I belong,
Maybe I belong. That fails back to me exactly, and
so I really appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Even to this day. Man, I go, there is a
real thing. Because we're all in secure creators. It's like, dude,
we doubt ourselves and so to have people in the
room that are speaking that life.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
I think it unlocks like the songs, because.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
I think if you're like insecure and you're only thinking
about yourself, you're probably not going to be creative as
creative as you could be otherwise.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
So it's like shoot freeers. That's right, you know, Tyer,
You get where you're gonna shoot and lock up, you
get the yips. Oh yeah, golf kinda dang, live the yips.
My whole life is the yips.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
The Bobby Cast will be right back. This is the
Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
The most excited I've ever been an Awards show is
when by Dirt won ever And I've been to a
bunch and been part of a bunch, but I mean,
you and your brother wrote that with Jordan his brother,
and obviously Jordan and I were very close, and I
was just like, come on, come on. I couldn't believe it,
but not in the way of like I couldn't believe
(36:55):
it because it shouldn't happen. I couldn't believe it because
it just felt like something that I wanted and something
that was that good. Surely it's not gonna win. What
did you think about going into that when that song
was was up for the CMA.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
I think you just try to protect yourself a little bit, going, man,
getting the nomination is winning, which I believed to a degree, right,
I was like, you try to pad your expectation, but
you just you kind of go in a little even
you go in going, am I really here? Is this
really happened? The whole process you know, of that song,
how it was born, and the guys and the relational equity,
(37:30):
and then going to the all of the stuff and
then the awards, it just felt like we've already won,
like not in this since we've won the award, but
I go this is this to go here with my bro,
like the journey of this my wife and our journey
in Jacob and Jordan, And so I think I was
a little bit just patting my.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Expectation, being like we already won. Man, we're good. You know,
we tell these others told each other that.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
My bro and I were like, we already went, we're here,
this is the win and we just had NSAI Awards
and we're like, man, and so you know, I think
you're trying to protect yourself, but yeah, when when it happened,
you're just like I just remember being like, oh my gosh,
like what is this even I don't even.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Know what I'm feeling. What were you listening for, bah
or Joh? I think the the ba from from from
Reva Yeah bye by Oh my god, that would have
been crazy. It was, dude.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
It was like you're sitting there and you're like, oh God,
stand up. You're like, you know, you can't prepare for
moments where you're you're like you have that out of
body experience where you're like you're you're trying to soak
it in.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
But it's such a big thing that it all felt.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
And obviously we saw you back there and it was
just like we still were like, oh my gosh, it's great.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
I rushed back there. I was I was with my
wife sitting and as soon as I went, I was like,
I gotta go. Yeah, and I was God, I was
so happy for you guys. That was the coolest moment. Well, man,
I we appreciate your love on it.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Man. It was if we felt it and it was
special for us in so many ways, and even outside
of being a hit or song of the year whatever,
it's like, words are great. It was like the soul
of the song and the journey it took us on
as brothers and friends and husbands and fathers and and
people like yourself supporting it.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Were like was the sweet spot. Sometimes people say stuff
like you know, brothers in love and I don't believe them.
I believe it with you. For some reason, I feel
like that like you're I feel like you're like very
grounded and respectful of why you're hearing, what you feel
you're supposed to do and how you're supposed to do it,
Like you're like country Buddha sitting next to you.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Is what it feels like, Bro, I'm I'm trying, man.
I think as a dad, and the journey of this
thing I've thought a lot about. I've had a lot
of internal you know, the thing is successful. The thing
success will do to you is it will reveal a
little of your motive. And I've had to recorrect and
not that we have bad motives, but it taught me
a lot to go okay at this point in my career. Actually,
(39:47):
Ben and I had this conversation about your buddy of ours.
He and part of this wisdom to me stuck with me.
He said, we're in the service.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Industry, which Ben Rector, Oh okay, got it, and it
blew my mind to go.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Okay, So much of our world, if we're not careful,
can be about I want to have a hit, I
want to be successful, I want to get a plaque.
I want to and then it becomes egocentric, and the
Alan Shamlin voice that comes into my head or the
Shane voice or whoever, is like, hey, that is not bad.
The place that I'm just fighting to be in and
(40:19):
live in and plant myself in is we create music
for people. And when I'm in that posture, going hey, man,
what song would be, whether it's fun or lighthearted, it's
a service injury of me in a benevolence, going like
I want to give a song to the world that
helps people or like makes them laugh or whatever. But
when I assume that posture and I redirect, like I
(40:43):
don't like awards, I don't like lights, like I don't
like giving. I don't like because to me, it tangles
up my ego and makes it just it distracts me,
And so I think from those things. I felt a
little bit of like having to pull away from that.
As sweet as awards are, I was like, man, what
I enjoy way more? And you know, I remember sitting
in a room with Mark D. Sanders, and he was like,
(41:05):
the best, the best it ever gets is the four walls,
man inside these four walls.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
And I just had I'm just.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Recorrecting back to a place of like I gotta do
this for the I gotta go to a show and
I gotta feel people. And then I got to go
back and go, what is a song that they would
want to hear? When I'm in that stream, it's like
so fun. But when I think about, Josh, you need
another hit, you got a deal coming up?
Speaker 2 (41:24):
What about?
Speaker 1 (41:25):
What are you gonna do your fancy? Like, I just
want to shrivel up in the corner and be like,
I don't know, I'm not that good. I'm I'm better
at if you and I you're talking about your life
and you're like pour something out and like we'll write that.
I'm better at that than going the calculated part of it.
So to answer to come back to all of that, it's.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
A country Buddha. Like You've been called that never, but
I will I will take that. You's word of the badge, dude,
I will create a tech a literal badge country Buddha,
Country Buddha. Has there ever been a song called pour
Something Out, but it feels like you're it's the double meaning, right,
you guys are great at it. Pour something out and
it's pour something out. It's like well lick, except it's not.
(42:01):
It's it's opening up. Yeah, Hey, we'll treat for me
to you. We should write it. You don't want me
writing now? You don't want me writing? Hey?
Speaker 3 (42:12):
You no, no, Hey, Let's take a quick pause for
a message from our sponsor.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
Welcome back to the Bobby cast by Dirt.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Wasn't supposed to be a duo. What do you call it? Collaboration?
They only sing to each other. But you know, when
you guys write that song, was it a Jordan song
when you finished? Or did you guys all write and go,
let's just write the best song and we'll see what happens.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
I think we were where we were, you know, And
truly to your point when you say people love each other.
I love those boys man, obviously, my bros, my best
I love him deeply, the dearest friend that I could
ever have, you know. And but meeting Jacob and Jordan,
and Jacob was still doing his artist thing. Jordan like,
wasn't even when we were writing with Jacob. We hadn't
even met Jordan, and then Jordan comes in and start
(43:06):
doing his artist thing and just developing.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
So there was so much.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
There was a culmination of relationship that led to that
moment we were outside of town. I remember the morning
we were sitting outside with the coffee talking about fathers
and husbands and some of our shortcomings and and that song.
If we would have written that song in a national
writing room, it not would have been what it would
have not been what it was. It was in a way,
it felt preserved for a moment that we were vulnerable
(43:30):
about life. And then we were start talking about our
grandpas and that song happened, and immediately it felt like
a Jordan song.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
To me.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
It felt like, hey, this is personal to us all.
But like I said earlier, like I don't think any
of us were, like we knew we loved it. But
that's I was doing the demo later, going like all
I know is when I listen, I feel my hair
on my arm stand up, and I go, that is
the indicator to me that we now have to surrender
it to the world.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
But I can't.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
I know that we've done our part because I believe
in what we're saying, and so it always felt like
a Jordan song to me. You know, at that point
in his career, it was a different flavor for him
from coming off some of the other stuff. So it
was it was like almost broadening what he does a
little bit. What was You're right it Okay, it's Jordan's
gonna cut it. Then it's Jordan's cutting it.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
But Luke's what was that? How did that go? Kind
of walk me through that. Yeah, we had written, it
had been cut, and anybody cut it before Jordan. No,
we didn't even pitch it. Really.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Jordan's like, I'm cutting this and then you know, I
had done the demo. I was like, it needs I
need to make it sound like a single. So I
like done it up and it you know, it does
all the try to add energy to it. And then
Paul di Giovanni, his producer, in a masterful way, was
like not stripping it all back and he kept it small.
And I remember Jordan playing us the version and being like, Okay,
it sounds like we're laid back, and Paul's like, trust me,
(44:49):
I think this will serve the song best.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
And at that point Jordan's like, I think I'm gonna
send it to Luke.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
I think we may like And then he had sent it,
and then he kind of communicated a little bit of
the response, and I think at that point, you know,
you go, Luke Bryan, You're like, oh my gosh, like
this is all of us were like, holy smokes, this
is crazy. And it was really cool to hear his
voice on it because it felt like something, you know,
it felt true to who he is. It wasn't like
he was trying to be anything other than he was,
(45:14):
so it was beautiful and honestly, at that point Jordan
and Luke kind of formed a friendship that was cool
to see.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
As well. Give me the formula which doesn't exist, but
it does, of writing a hit song. I mean my formula,
the Nashville formula to write a hit song. What's the
Nashville formula?
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Oh gosh, A memorable melody, I think a hook that
is clever. Sometimes, well, it depends you can go the
heart route. You need to find a song that is
so such a freight train of emotion that is crafted
in such a way that you can't that you feel
lost in it. You forget you're listening to the house
(45:54):
that built me those kind of songs, or.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
What do you have ninety minutes? You only have ninety
minutes to write a hit song? What's that formula? Find
a catchy hook? Whistles and claps.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
I'm going whistles and claps. I'm going, I'm going somebody
give me a vulnerable title. If we don't have it,
we're going whistles and claps. I'm gonna see if we
can't find something, I call it fabric.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
I go, what you know?
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Music comes in and out. And there's an old obviously
uh author that said this. You know you want you
want something to have enough thing on it that you
says it just slightly like you haven't heard it. Because
we're so used, especially now, so much content. What's gonna
hit you in a way? We go, Oh, I'm gonna
listen to that.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Is it a voice? Is it a production? Is it
a progression? Is it a melody? Is it a hook?
So I would go, what are where is our secret sauce?
It's like, okay, that's our secret sauce.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Let's whistles and claps and and then we'll find a
way to get to that to where you hear it
and you go, that's the fabric on that's gonna grab
you a little bit, because that, to me, what we
want when people hear a song is them to go,
I want to hear it again, And so like, what
kind of fabric are we putting in it to grab
a hole of you. It's like if it goes down
so smooth, you don't remember anything about it, then, So
(46:59):
I would say ninety minutes. So I would do a
quick survey of what heart songs we have and if
they're if you said it, I have heart like a truck,
I'm going we're writing that song.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
I know how to do that.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Probably wouldn't have written it as good as they did,
but I will try. But I know that, like you
can weave in a little bit of the heart with
what Nashville does, which is the metaphor, which is beautiful
song length.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
It's a bit of an issue now they just edit
them down. And again I'm not directly involved what radio
or satellite radio does, but I know they like to
songs to be shorts. They move on to the next one.
You know, when we were younger, you could have a
four and a half minute so I know you can't
do that anymore. If you're writing the grade and it's long,
(47:38):
You're like, well, what are we going to cut out?
Like do we need to cut the bridge in half?
Do we need? Is that always on your mind? Like
how long the song is? Or do you wait till
it's over to make that decision?
Speaker 1 (47:47):
I kind of wait and I go to me, it's
just like a feeling. I go, Okay, this feels appropriate.
If they want a shorten it, they will. You know,
we're not going to write a bridge.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
I don't need it.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
But I normally I go, how do we preserve? To
me a song with hell? And that sounds so wacky,
like a song will tell you. But so a lot
of times I go, it feels complete, Like it feels
like if we pull that out, that just feels incomplete.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
So like, let's deliver it complete.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
And if they come back and say, hey we need
a trim it, granted, if you're making a five minute song,
you're going like, hey, i'll make a five minute song.
We just got to know that maybe they'll cut it,
but maybe it'll be track seventeen whatever you know, you may,
but I'd like even the single thing. The more I
think about that, I go, I just don't want to
miss a song because I'm trying to think about a
radio song. I go, I would rather I'd rather have
(48:30):
a song that feels like a five minute song that
people go have you heard that song on the record,
And they'd be like, well, maybe it's not a single.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
Then go like have to cut everything down. I want
to do best and worst. The best thing about the
music industry now and what's the most difficult, what's the
worst thing? Hmm.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
The best thing about the music business now is I
think it's fractured in a positive way where the structures
of songs finding their way or artists finding their way
has fractured in a way where I feel like there's
a hour shift. And as a songwriter, what I want
to see with my friends that are artists is their
ability to get music out and have some level of
(49:08):
control of that process. And you're seeing with technology obviously
that that is. I've seen people that don't have anything
going that are friends that connect and build an audience
outside of a label structure. I love labels, but I go, man,
it's nice to see that. I get excited about that
because as a creator, I go and I can write
with you and we can get stuff going and you
can connect and build something and it doesn't have to
(49:31):
be well I'm going to go I've got to go
the traditional route, and then if radio doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
We don't have a plan.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
It's like, to me, that is beautiful and also complicated,
because without radio, what a songwriters make money on?
Speaker 2 (49:43):
So snowballing off of that.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
It's the most optimistic I have been about seeing songs
connect with people and people build fan bases. It's the
most confused I've been about how do we as songwriters.
We have fifty million streams on a song, but we're
not making any money, and I'm seeing careers take off
and without a radio and labels are tentative to work singles.
(50:06):
You know, I have friends that are like, have songs
that have a ton of streams that they don't get
a single on. And so as writers are going like, man,
I want to show up every day and do this
because I love it.
Speaker 2 (50:15):
But how do we do this? You know?
Speaker 1 (50:17):
You know there's some sort of we're edging towards a
better solution. So I would say, batter the best and worst.
Maybe complicated at the moment.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
Where can the most growth happen? Right now?
Speaker 1 (50:30):
I think the most growth could happen if this is
a long shot, but this is speaking as a songwriter.
The ecosystem of music needs to I think needs to
be recalibrated in a way where songwriters can have some
level of benefit from songs not being on radio. And
(50:54):
I think it's a it's a weird world when it's
like a baseball reference. It's like, man, every time you
get up to the plate, you have to at home run.
You're like, dude, I don't know if I could do that.
I think sometimes the idea that a writer is going
to get and it get hits and so everything below
that food chain is not sustainable. To me, seems like
the whole ecosystem is suffering because of that foundation is
(51:16):
not set. So I look at all my friends and
I go, man, there's got to be a way to
include songwriters. If it's included on the mo be awesome.
If some big artist was like, hey, dude, you know what,
we're going to cut a deal. We have power with
the labels, like we're going to cut a deal and
we're going to give a ten percent of the masters
split between the writers. Like, to me, it's hard to
get that because it's not a norm at the moment,
(51:37):
But I go, that would be a game changer, And
then the ecosystem all thrives because now you're writing songs,
not trying to get a number one, but you're writing
songs because you love them, because you and I both
know right now a lot of songs that are working
don't fit the traditional radio format.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
And I go, man, I want to write.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
I want to go into a room and think about
a five minute song and what if it gets fifty
million streams but it's never a number one. I'm like,
what if we had access to any sort of ownership
on a master that the I go, then the ecosystem,
and I honestly think the main objective that I see
from that is not songwriters making a living. It is
songs getting better because writers aren't writing songs trying to
(52:13):
make something that fits in this space.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
And I go when that happens, I know a lot
of my friends man right, going, well, it's not for radio? What?
And I go, but no, what is in you? It's
beautiful and fearless and brave.
Speaker 1 (52:25):
I want to hear that song. I like, I don't
need to hear your three and a half minute beer song.
That's cool, give me your song. It's like the deep cut, Like,
that's the one I want, and I go. I think
more than ever people have an appetite for it. Writers
are scared to go there because they don't think they'll
make money, and I go, okay, let's figure that out.
So that would be a thing where I go, God,
(52:46):
that would and not just as a songwriter. I think
the ecosystem then benefits. It would set a precedent.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
If one one and a half major artists yep did it,
it would set a precedent. YEP. Now that's a lot
of sacrifice from everybody that owns I mean ten percents
a lot. But it would absolutely change the game. I've
often thought, and again this is just a cock maamy idea.
And I'll relate it to like the podcast network that
I have, and I've got six seven shows. And if
(53:13):
this show, this show does really well, this podcast here
does tons and tons of streams, and it makes a
really good amount of money. But what happens is I
make the money, but there's all We'll just give it
a number. Twenty percent of that streams down to the
other shows in the network automatically, so everybody who kills
it kills it, but we root for everybody because if
I kill it, Carolina Hobby makes a little money off
(53:35):
of it, Amy makes a little if Amy kills it.
I'm so what if you did that sort of system
on a we'll call it a project, an EP and LP.
So whatever song, let's just call it song number two,
Oh blur, my favorite song back in the day. It
crushes and gets a billion streams and gets played on
(53:56):
the radio, And well, that song there should be like
a you say ten percent of the masters, what about
ten to fifteen percent of like a profit share type
thing for all the music on that project. So the
artist is also picking songs that they are passionate about
as well as songs that they think will be hits.
And it gives people a reason to write wonderful songs
and hit songs, because you can't just write all wonderful
(54:17):
songs all the time, because you know what, you gotta
pay the bills, that's right, and art is only worth
anything as far as money goes as people buy it.
If not, you're gonna be van go and die and
then you're gonna get famous. So I always felt like
there was a profit share on a project type. Man,
that's a model, not a lot. All it takes is
a little All it takes is just a section ten
to fifteen percent of the profit that dribbles into everything.
(54:42):
But everything else dribbles back up into that too. That way,
everybody makes a little something. Man, you can have that too. Amen,
pour something out and you can have that model. Country
Buddha gonna change change the game.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
I'm just I think I feel optimistic. I think we're
in a place where Yeah, me too, I think we're
headed towards growth in a lot of ways that I
go it's going to be good for not only songwriters,
but the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (55:05):
Yeah, I agree content just in general, songs, you don't
you don't have to be anything to have a song
and build an audience. You don't have to be anything. No,
you don't have to be anywhere. It's great to be places,
and it helps the times to be places, for sure.
It helps to have a label, It helps to get
ready to play at times, it helps to get playlisted.
But if you're not that for sure doesn't mean you
can't do it. You just have to have something that
(55:27):
works it and that people that resonates with folks and
if you can do that, it's the first time I
think in my life i've seen that happen. If you're
just good, and you're good consistently, it's it's going to exist.
And that excites me. I'm with you, man, Even about content,
it excites me because it used to be Well, if
you don't have a major radio station or screw that,
(55:49):
get you a microphone. It's going to be hard. It
would be easier to be put on all these markets. Sure,
but get your box record it. And if you're so compelling,
sure you're starting from a detriment, but if it's so compelling,
you're gonna be in the game. Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah,
I agree.
Speaker 1 (56:04):
And I think even early band days, I god, well
we didn't have Instagram until you know, a little later.
But I go, all of the tools to get to people,
I go. I tell my friends, now I go. You
can't be too precious with any sort of technology. You
just use it as a way that you get access
to people. They may not react, but like you said,
the ability to connect is there. You just you gotta
be great and you gotta be consistent, like you said.
Speaker 2 (56:26):
And so I'm with you, man. I love that I
love that.
Speaker 1 (56:29):
There's it's things can catch fire and go and then
and I don't I love labels, but I go, I
like that like they have to then go what we
didn't think that. I go, that's good for the business.
It's good that like sometimes you don't know. Sometimes Joe
Smow from wherever that plays on a guitar in his
bedroom has more streams than your artist that it's on radio,
(56:49):
And I go, that's good for music.
Speaker 2 (56:50):
That's how music should be. It's a little bit of
the wild West. I feel enlightened. I'm be honest with you.
I feel country unlightened. Dud. I'm gonna carry that with me.
He should. I'm gonna carry with me too, out of here.
What's the goal? That's a very vague, broad question, purposefully,
but what's the goal I'm chasing.
Speaker 1 (57:11):
I'm chasing purpose amidst a business that is built on
being commercial and successful on radio. So I'm trying to
the goal for me at this point is looking inward
and trying to chase the songs that I want to write.
(57:32):
And they're not ones that come I know. To get
to the songs I want to write takes a unique
path because I want to write diddies and uptempo and
they don't have to be slow. But this, like I said,
mentors I have in the songs I'm trying to get to,
I go, I'm gonna have to do a little bit
of I can't be chasing success. So that's the next
(57:54):
chapter for me, is going, Okay, we've had some we've
got the monkey off the back, dig into your soul
and dig into tune into the world, and go what
needs to be said and how are you going to
chase and pursue those ideas? That is your purpose going forward.
It's not to go I personally to each his own.
My objective is not I want to make a living
doing this because I have four kids, But I go, God,
(58:17):
it's better when I feel connected to the purpose and
not just go like I want to go have a
bunch of hits.
Speaker 2 (58:22):
I want to do that.
Speaker 1 (58:24):
I want to have songs that work to make money,
to provide for my family and my life. But ultimately,
the most satisfying thing is hopefully writing a song that
says something and green reve ordinance. That's right, what's up,
it's coming. We're gonna We're gonna do a reunion show.
Another one in the in the spring, and once again
I go, I think there was a period of our
(58:45):
career that I was like, we're thinking about you're thinking
about what do people want to hear? Versus Hey, this
is what I want to say. We created backwards, Well
we need to what do people want to hear? Let's
create And I think I'm back to a place of going,
let's just tell the truth. And so so I'm excited
about that as a thirty eight year old going, let's
just make some music that feels truthful to us, as
thirty eight year olds that have been through marriages falling
(59:07):
apart and valleys and mountains, and let's put some stuff
in a thing. And just like you have said, let's
we have the ability to connect, why wouldn't we do
this even if there's a couple of thousand people that
it starts a conversation with and you get that email
and you've had it with your show and everything that
you do. It's like when someone hits you it said, men,
thank you for what you do, like you have helped me,
(59:28):
or hey man, this song is our daughter's song, or
what you said on that joke whatever. It's like those
kind of trickle down valuable things on a soul level
or go I want to engage in those conversations, and
not not in an ego way, but in a way
where I go, man, why not?
Speaker 2 (59:44):
I like it? I like I like you, and I'll
end with that. It's pretty, it's pretty astute, it's pretty.
I like you. I'll take it. Yeah, we have, you know,
a lot of mutual friends. Yeah, I've been a big
fan of you for a long time, but before I
knew you, and I don't feel like I know you
know you now, but I we've met, and yeah, we
definitely have mutual friends. So I am a big fan.
Good luck, man. I know the New Jordan's song too Soon,
(01:00:05):
Too Late is now on the chart, and for your sake,
I hope it doesn't become a hit. Well, I hope
it's just an art song that people related to. Oh no,
you don't want that, I know. Here's the deal we
thread about. I said I got to make a living
if I was getting equity.
Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
Shit.
Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
No, but it's that's the song that I love. And yeah,
I'm just kidding you know, I'm messing with you. It's
just an easy one, easy, all right, you guys follow
we told you at the beginning of this Josh C.
Jenkins on Instagram Josh Jenkins music dot com A huge fan.
Good luck and I'll see you at the next CMA's
or wherever you're getting your awards. Thanks pretty cool, I
appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (01:00:38):
Thanks for listening to a Bobby Cast production
Host
Bobby Bones
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