June 15, 2021 • 27 mins
This is Amy’s ‘5th Thing’ (a bonus episode). ‘4 Things With Amy Brown’ comes out every Thursday, but on Tuesdays Amy shares emails and answers questions that have been sent in. Kat Defatta {therapist & host of @YouNeedTherapyPodcast} joined Amy to help discuss the emails!! You can send Amy a note for the 5th thing here: 4ThingsWithAmyBrown@gmail.com!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Happy Tuesday. Welcome to the Fifth Thing, the bonus episode
to the Four Things podcast, and I've got my friend
Kat here with me. Kat Defata, host of You Need
Therapy podcast, and she's going to go over some of
the emails that you have sent in. That's what we
dedicate this episode two. But Cat, I always start this
episode off with a quote, and I'm just going to
(00:25):
quote you and your merch because I'm wearing a UNED
Therapy podcast shirt and it just says feel your feelings.
I also have a coffee mug that says feel your feelings.
So that is our quote for today. I like that quote,
feel your feelings. And then coming up, one of the
listeners actually emailed me about finding a therapist, and Cat
(00:45):
is a licensed therapist, so I thought she'd be perfect
to bring on for this. And I get asked that
a lot, and we've addressed it here on the podcast before.
I think Kat has even maybe addressed it at some
point or another. But you never know in conversation how
something might hit you differently, if if you've heard us
addressed this before. And we'll get to that question and
just a little bit. But my first email is from
Taylor in California, and she said, Hey, Amy, I'm listening
(01:06):
to your first Thing and Cat. She's referring to last
Thursday's episode because Mary was on with me for the
first thing. So she said, I was listening to your
first Thing with Mary about her calling you out. Ha ha,
Sorry Mary, What a great friend. But it got me thinking,
I was really surprised to hear you say you were
insecure about aging or how your eyes look, because when
I see photos of you, I would never ever have
(01:28):
thought those things. The exact opposite, actually, and I thought
it was a great reminder that we can be our
own worst critics, and we need to be a lot
nicer to ourselves and see ourselves the way others do,
because I can guarantee others aren't being nearly as critical
of us as we may be to ourselves, and if
they are, then well maybe we don't really care about
their opinion anyways. All that to say, thank you for
(01:49):
sharing that with us and encourage me to be nicer
to myself about my insecurities, realizing that they probably aren't
as big or noticeable as I think they are. All Right,
Kat and other listeners, I can give you the back
story that I had been around Mary a lot in
person because of a lot of different things that were
going on, and she was with me and also with
me during a lot of hard stuff, and I think
(02:12):
that I was just feeling down and on the inside,
and so what was coming out is I was looking
in the mirror and just so tired looking and not
happy with myself. So I was picking my face apart
of uh, it looks so tired, it looks so old,
like what's wrong with my eyes? And this, you know.
And she noticed it once she got back home to
California because the people she was hanging out with, nobody
was commenting on their looks that way. And so then
(02:35):
we were on FaceTime one night and I said it
again and she sort of called me out on it,
and I was grateful for it because she did it
in a very kind way. But she's like, hey, stop
talking about yourself that way. I mean, I'm kind of
paraphrasing it. People can go back and listen to our
chat if they want to his last Thursday's episode, But yeah,
I was just a good reminder of how you can
communicate with a friend, like if you notice a pattern
(02:58):
or something going on with them, and that it's okay
because you're saying it in love and as a friend.
But then also there's a reminder to to not talk
so badly about yourself to yourself. And Mary even pointed
out that I've made so much progress when it comes
to body and food in that area, but then it's
almost like it shifted into somewhere somewhere else, which that
(03:19):
is interesting because what we do know about like body
image and how we see what we look like, it's
based on the interceptive messages we have inside. So how
we feel is how we see ourselves. And so you
probably have been working a lot on being kind to
yourself when you look at your body and commenting on
your body, but you still feel that feeling because you're
going through something hard or tough or whatever that was,
(03:42):
and so those feelings come out in different ways, like
you just said, and so that is an indicator I
would say to anybody if you find yourself being really
horrible to yourself, that's an indicator that it might not
be really what you look like. You're seeing how you feel,
so you see something different than what I see. And
that's why so often a friend will be like, oh
my gosh, I so disgusting or this or that, and
they'll be like, what are you talking about? Because we
(04:03):
see one thing and you see what you feel. It's
so interesting to me. The other thing, though, that I
think is important to point out when it comes to
this stuff, is if you tell yourself something enough times,
your brain is going to start to attach to it
and believe it. You're teaching yourself something about yourself. So
if I say, will say bags under my eyes or
(04:25):
I look tired or I look old. If I say
I look old enough times, eventually my brain is gonna
be like you look old. Versus if I say I
look bright or I look radiant, or I look happy
or I like whatever, that's actually going to be what
you believe about yourself. We have a lot of power
in that. Yeah, And that's what I've had to lean
into ever since, you know, she brought it to my attention.
(04:46):
We were saying she called me out. That's why the
listener even apologized sorry Mary in the email, because Mary's like,
I don't like the way that sounds. I wasn't trying
to call you out, but it's just in a nutshell,
it's sort of what happened. But she brought it to
my attention, and once I was made aware of it,
I've been able to focus on it and I'm working
hard to undo it. But that's exactly what happened. It's
it became a pattern in my brain every single day
(05:07):
and every time I looked in the mirror. So that's
what she was hearing all the time, because that's what
I was saying out loud to her. And you know,
that's exhausting for her as a friend to hear a
friend doing that. But then she said to what can happen?
But it may not be this exact scenario. I'm just
saying for other listeners, what ends up happening to those
around you is then you may cause them to then
look at themselves in a weird way that they never
(05:29):
would have thought of, and then they're starting to break
down if they look tired or old and they're like, well,
if Amy feels old, because I'm old, Because if it's like, well,
if what Amy looks like is what old looks like,
and I feel like Amy looks younger than me, then
that means I really look old. If she thinks she
looks old, you know what I mean? And that's really
confusing and so you don't. You think it's just about you,
(05:49):
but because we are culture of comparison, it becomes about
all of us. Yep. The other thing I would like
to say about the calling people out where I used
to work, we would do it once a week. I'm like,
we would have a group with the clients in once
a week. We would kind of confront each other. We
called them carefrontations. It's like kind, but it's actually like
what Mary did is a really kind thing, Like she said, Hey,
(06:13):
I care about you enough to not ignore this behavior.
It feels like it's hurting you. It might be also
hurting me. But confrontation gets such a bad reputation when
really it can be a very caring, loving thing to
do with a friend. I want my friends to tell
me what they see. If they see something like that,
I don't want them to just like ignore it. And well,
and I think what I was breaking down when I
(06:34):
was processing what happened. Again, we were on FaceTime, but
I received it, And I think if I wasn't in
a good place, I would have gotten defensive and been upset.
But I think because I was been doing so much
work and I'm in a place where I can be
self reflective right now and I can look inside myself
and evaluate maybe there is some truth to that. It
(06:56):
wasn't right away, but it was on the in the
time of the face call that I know that I
was able to say, hey, thanks for saying that to me. Yeah,
and it's also about delivery. I don't think she probably
was mean to you, and she said that no, really
bad has to be a care care frontation. Alright. So
next email is from Elizabeth and South Carolina. I've had
(07:17):
people start to tell me where they're emailing me from
because I'm very curious. So the last one was Taylor
in California. Now we've moved either to South Carolina. Elizabeth said, Hey, Amy,
I absolutely love the genes you're wearing in your recent
Pimp and Joy photo shoot. Where are they from? And
I will tell you they are Mousey vintage m O
(07:37):
U S S Y or maybe it's Mousey. Honestly, I
don't know how to say it. I'm too cool for
these genes. I mean, these are too cool for you.
Switch that these genes are too cool for me. Actually, Kelly,
who's at Velvet's Edge on Instagram, she got me these
genes before the pandemic hit and and I thought, wow,
(08:01):
these are just so out there. But Kelly knows style
was happening. Man, she was way ahead of the curve,
like I'm just now to wear Like, okay, fine, I'll
wear these. They're cool because they're the total straight leg
and wide. Now I wear them all the time, so
I will say they are a little bit of an
investment there, the Odessa wide straight leg jeans. The are cute,
(08:22):
I know, but see, could you imagine maybe two years
ago I would be like, yeah, And that's what I
tried to tell Kelly, but she said, trust me, you're
going to want these. So I think I wore them
once for whatever she wanted me to wear with with heels,
and I felt okay with it. But now I wear
them with flats. These have Now I'm always late to
the trends, but I will say, if you are wanting
(08:44):
to invest in a pair, these are pretty awesome. I
know that made Well has some super cute ones which
would be a different price point and take you down
a little bit. If you bring a pair of jeans
to made Well, you get a discount. If you bring
to donate, they'll do a swap. You can yes, give
them your like denim to recycle, and then yes, they
(09:05):
will give you a discount, and then I think it's
wild fable. I was just at Target. Well I'm trying
to make sure it was wild fable, or I think
it was. They had a wide leg or it's like
a straight leg wide situation. I don't know exactly how
to describe it. But the Target had a pair as well.
(09:26):
There's different varieties of this look, but yeah, if you
go to my Instagram at Radio Amy and you look
at the Bobby Bones Show Pimp and Joy photo from
last week, you'll see the jeans that we're talking about,
and then maybe you can find a pair similar, because yes,
they are very, very very cute. And I mean I'm
not even patting my own self on the back for
that because I didn't pick them out and actually I
was resisting them for quite some time. So thank you
(09:49):
for the note, Elizabeth. And now Kat is over here
shopping but there is only one size left. But can
I make a comment about jeans. Yeah, I've gone through
this revelation the past couple of weeks, which feels seems
like I should have gone through this revelation earlier. But
this year, I decided one I'm going to invest in
pants that I really think I feel good in, especially
(10:10):
Jane shorts. It's summer, and I've always had an issue
with finding Gene shorts that actually fit my body because
of you know just how Geene shorts are made, and
this is a very simple thing. But this year, I
said to myself, I'm not going to go to a
million stores and by a million pairs of shorts and
try to make myself fit in in this pear of
Jeenes or this peara Jeanes, or this pear of genes
(10:31):
and get frustrated when I don't. I'm going to find
a pair of genes that I like that fit in
one area of my body, and then I'm going to
make the genes fit me by altering them. It's a
little thing, but in in my head it's why have I,
for the past thirty something years been trying to fit
my body into this one mold when bodies are so different.
We know that all bodies are in all different shapes
(10:52):
and sizes. It really is crazy to think that the
same style and cut of one thing would be right
for me and you because we're so different, and that
doesn't have to do with you being better and me
being worse when it comes to what our bodies looks like.
So it was very empowering for me to find a
pair of Jeene shorts like how they fit in one
part of my body, and then go get them taken
(11:13):
in or altered that fit the other part of my body.
And now, for the first time literally in my life
where I have not been in an active eating disorder,
I was so excited to put on Geene shorts yesterday.
I love that. That's awesome that and you also just
posted recently about sports our sports back. Well one scorts
are back, but I just got it. Scot is so cute.
(11:35):
Two years from now, I will be working because I'm
always behind. But yeah, so tell people what a scort
is in case they don't know. Well, a scirt is
something that is it's shorts, but it looks like a
skirt from the front. And I got this super cute
Gene skirt from American Eagle that I saw somebody on
Instagram wearing and I'm obsessed with it. It's so comfortable,
(11:57):
it's stretchy, it's the best. American Eagle. They also have
good genes, so does Abercrombie, just saying they have some
mom Even if you're not a mom, you're gonna what
the I bought a pair of shorts from them and
it's there, they said. It's advertising. Really gets me when
people use words like our number one best seller. I'm like, well, okay,
then I'll get that one. Oh, I guess I need
(12:18):
to buy it. And then I'm thinking, don't fall for that.
But they really are awesome, and they're like the mom
high waisted short and they're a little bit longer in
the back and then like there's a slit and so
they rise up a little bit in the front but
not too short. So there's some options for some denom
So hopefully you can find something in there that you like.
(12:38):
Thank you for the email, Elizabeth Alright. Next note is
from Aaron Man. I don't think Aaron, but where she
was from won't want We'll just have to guess or
not know, or you can pretend she's from wherever. But
she said, hey me a longtime Bobby Bones show listener
and New R four Things listener. Here. I'm writing because
(13:00):
I wanted to see if you had any advice on
how to find the right therapist as I listened to
the Bobby Bones show and podcast. I hear you talk
very openly about your own therapy, and I know you're
very passionate about your time with your therapist. I find
myself in a place where I think talking to someone
would really help with some internal struggles that I'm having.
There are so many options psychiatrist, psychologist, licensed clinical social worker,
(13:23):
et cetera. I was curious if you would be comfortable
sharing your experience and finding someone and if you had
any thoughts on the differences between all of the many options. So, Cat,
what is the difference between a psychiatrist and a psychologist
and a licensed clinical social work? Okay, so that I
actually like that. She added that part because a psychologist,
a psychiatrist, and a therapist are all different things. Yes,
(13:45):
a psychiatrist is somebody who goes their doctors, they go
to med school, and they specialize in psychiatry, like they
could prescribe your medicine. They're great for one thing, but
you don't usually see a psychiatrist for therapy. A psychologist
can be a therapist as well, but most of the
time somebody who's a psychologist is going to be more
invested in research and that area than just doing one
(14:09):
on one private practice, although they can, and a lot
of times people that become psychologists get a master's degree
in like um clinical counseling or something like that on
their way to becoming a psychologist, if that makes sense. Ye.
When it comes to therapy, they're the main things a
license professional counselor. So that's what I am. There is
a licensed clinical social worker, that's somebody who gets a
(14:32):
master's in social work. And then there is a marriage
and family therapist who gets their graduate degree in marriage
and family therapy. All of those can operate as a therapist.
They can all We can all do essentially the same thing,
but we have different backgrounds and different trainings, and we
are taught and invest more time in certain areas and
certain things. Okay, So I know that my person that
(14:53):
I go to my therapist now is a licensed clinical
social worker, So what are you again? Licensed profession counselor.
The initials at the end of our names are different,
but we can do the same thing, okay. And then
there are experiential therapists. I've learned this, So the person
that I'm seeing, she is experiential and like Linda who
I did my intensive with she was experiential, So explain
(15:18):
that for people, because I've really personally enjoyed that. So
experiential therapist you can get extra trainings in that, but
that's not like you go to school for that. So
I am an experiential therapist, but I don't do that
in every session with every single client. But experiential therapy
just brings in metaphor and experience into the therapy room,
(15:39):
so you're not just talking. We'll do things like I'll
get a box of scarves out and be like, pick
a scarf that represents how you're feeling, or pick a
scarf that represents your mom, like Linda made me pick
out a beanie baby yes or well yes. Or when
I did adventure therapy that was experiential, we would go
out in the woods and do all these really cool
initiatives and act ativities that mimicked the feelings we have
(16:03):
that are going on and what we're dealing with inside.
That makes sense. And so to circle back to Aaron's email,
like how does she best find out who's for her?
And again, this is a question I get a lot.
I know it's a question. You get a lot, especially
being a therapist and you're on Instagram and you host
you need therapy podcasts, So I know that you get
this question as well, So how do you respond to it?
(16:25):
So when I have a post on you need Therapy
Podcasts Instagram account and it's in the highlights, So if
you go to at you need therapy podcast you can
find it in the highlights and it gives you a
couple of steps to find somebody. But basically, what I
would recommend anybody to do is first figure out, like
what is it that you're wanting? What do you want
to go to therapy for? Because yeah, somebody could have
(16:46):
the same degree and letters behind their name is me,
but I might do something different. Where I specialized in
one thing, they might specialize in another. So really tried
if you can get an understanding of what you want
and what you're looking for. And then what I would
really recommend is if you can try to ask around
and get a word of mouth referral. I think those
can be the most beneficial and the most helpful, maybe
(17:07):
if you have a friend that sees a therapist. My
clients all the time asked me for referrals for their
friends because a lot of times you don't want your
friend to also see your same therapist, because what if
you talk about each other and you know, it's just
a weird, awkward Yeah, but I have people that I
can then my clients and then their friends will go
see them. So if you can find a word of mouth,
that's a really really helpful way to do that. You
(17:28):
can also look online at places like Psychology Today, and
you can look at what people say that they specialize
in when it comes to picking somebody based on psychiatrist, psychologist,
social worker, this, that whatever. If you're looking for therapy,
like the therapy that we talk about, you're really going
to be looking for a licensed professional counselor marriage and
family therapist, or a licensed clinical social worker. All three
(17:51):
of those can do the same things. I worked at
a place that half of the people were licensed clinical
social workers, so we did the same thing, we just
had different background. Yeah, and you might have to go
try it out with people, or there are resources online
where therapy is becoming more accessible, and you know, you
might find someone that you can do virtual sessions with.
(18:12):
I mean sometimes even just talking things out helps so much,
but you want to make sure you vibe with the
person and I've honestly had therapists afore. I just thought,
you know, I just don't end up going back because
it's not a good fit. And then I find you
know the right person, and I know it's a good fit,
but I'm still having to put in a lot of
work and effort because yeah, it's not fun starting that
(18:34):
process over because there is a lot that they need
to get to know and understand about you, and that
takes times. You have to be patient. It's not something
that's just going to be a quick fix, or you
think you can go a couple of times and then Waila.
I think that you'll have sessions where you walk out
feeling better. Sometimes you have sessions where you walk out
feeling really heavy, and I'm like, I feel like we
just unpacked some stuff. But then hopefully the next week
(18:56):
you can start putting some of it back together. But
I guess my thing with that is it's nothing's overnight, right,
and it's it's ongoing work. I think there are different
seasons in your life where you may need it more
than others, and your therapist may tell you it's appropriate
to take a break. You know, I read that book,
Maybe you should talk to someone Lori Gottlieb, and I
think in there she talked about and maybe you might
(19:18):
remember because I know you read it too, but that, yeah,
there comes a time where the therapist even feels it too,
that like, hey, we're done, we're kind of done, so
you're you're free be a bird by way, and also
like you can be done with what I can offer you,
and maybe you need somebody else. And that's two things. One,
there's so much power in being okay with taking the
(19:42):
initiative to find the therapist that's right for you and
not feeling like the first person you go and talk
to has to be your therapist. Now, if you were
going to not go back after the first session, I
would encourage you to dig deeper into that because sometimes
people just get scared and walk away. But I also
think it's okay to say, like, that didn't feel right,
that wasn't a match for me. So often I think
(20:02):
people go back because they feel bad for us the therapist,
and I would offer you don't have to worry about
that because we can take care of ourselves, and a
good therapist will not take it personally because we know
we're not the best fit for everybody. And then the
other part is when it's time to terminate therapy or
transition or whatever you want to say, is, yeah, our
goal isn't for you to come forever. Our goal is
(20:24):
for you at one point not need us. And so
it's actually a really cool conversation when a client tells me,
I think I'm ready to go, like I'm ready for
something else. That also is not something that as a
therapist we should be taking personally, because that's a good
that means we did our job essentially, right, Yeah, yeah, no,
that's I mean, it's good for people to understand the
full process that it may not you don't have to
(20:44):
be scared of, Like if you sign up for therapy,
then now you're signing up for something the rest of
your life with that person. And my I have a
therapist and I'll see her. I saw her for like
three years, probably once a week or every other week,
and now I see her when something's going on, I'll
go see her for a uple weeks in a row,
and then I'll take a break. Like I still have
her in my life and she's really helpful and I
(21:05):
really really adore her and value her, but I don't
have to see her every single week and she's okay
with that too. That's like the point. Yeah, well, so
good luck with that. Um, thank you for the email, Aaron.
I know it's it's a big leap to start something
like that, so we just want to send encouragement your way.
And in the meantime too, you could also listen to
I mean shameless plug here for Cat, but you could
(21:26):
also listen to her podcast. It's not a replacement for
therapy by any means, but there are a lot of
great resources on that Instagram page for the podcast, and
then in the podcast itself with different interviews and talks
and topics that Cat brings up. So check it out, subscribe, rate,
and review you need therapy podcast. Thank you. Cat is
(21:48):
on my podcast network by the way, in case anybody
didn't know, UM, but I'm thankful to have her on
there because I think Cat is really awesome. She's very smart.
I think she delivers things and are really easy to
understand and way, and I was honored to have you
come aboard the podcast with Lisa Ham who has a
podcast called Truthius Life, and you're about to go on
(22:10):
that too. I am as well, so Cat and I
will both be I don't know where that's going to
be on. Lisa's podcast is Truthius Life, which y'all should
subscribe right in review to that podcast too. And then
Lisa and I co host out Way Together, which Lisa
is gonna be having a baby soon, so there might
be some episodes cat where you and I are. I
would love co hosting out Way Together. Love that all right.
(22:32):
Last and final, which is the fourth email, is from
Colleen oh Man. Again no no, no city, but yes,
in case you are a new listener, I love to
hear well your name and where you're from, and then
you can sign the email your friend because we're gonna
from Arizona. Oh she is, okay, So quick question. This morning,
(22:52):
you mentioned the cell phone that has been working for
your daughter. I looked it up, but I was in
the middle of getting ready and I need the cell
name again because I tried to pull it back up
on my browser and it was gone. So I guess
she has a son and it's summertime and he's gonna
be around the neighborhood and hanging out with friends. So
if you are looking to get your kid a cell phone,
what we gave our daughter is the gab Wireless. So
(23:16):
I pulled something from their website and says, gab Wireless
is dedicated to providing a safe cellphone for kids. No
really a safe cellphone for kids, no internet, no social media,
no games, no worries. So boring, I know, but supposed
to do right and so she's able to call us
if she needs to call us. Now full disclosure, my
(23:37):
daughter does have an iPad that has certain games on it.
Really we got that for her because she really wanted
to Procreate, which is an art app. She loves art
and drawing and coloring. And then from there she does
have access to you know, text and FaceTime with certain people.
But it's linked up with an iPhone that my husband
(23:57):
and I have, so we can see every single interaction
that happens on that iPad because it's not the main
purpose of it. But she does have certain apps on there,
but no social media. She doesn't have Instagram or anything.
And I don't know when that day will come. I mean,
she's fourteen, so we're just kind of feeling some stuff out.
But she has adopted. She's only been in America three
(24:19):
and a half years, so she's a little bit behind,
thank goodness. Uh, socially and emotionally and stuff like that.
So even though she's fourteen, I don't feel like I'm
dealing with what some other parents of fourteen year olds
might be dealing with, you know what I'm saying. So
thankful for that. But the GAB wireless it looks kind
of like an iPhone, so it's not like a cheesy
(24:40):
kid phone. It doesn't look childish, and I think that
that's helpful because you know, a fourteenerald doesn't want to
be embarrassed with their cute little like frog phone that
can call three people, you know, because like she's or
like what we had, like a brick Nokia like walkie talkie.
Well I didn't even what I had when I when
I was pager, we didn't have definitely doesn't want to yeah,
(25:04):
she well, we might go back to that and I'll
be like, and you have to find find a pay
phone or a school phone and just look like an iPhone.
It does, yeah, I mean, and I feel like We've
been super happy with it. So Colleen, Gab wireless, hopefully
that's something you can check out for your son. And
thanks for the email, all right, and thank you everyone
that is listening and for sending in notes. Love hearing
(25:25):
from you. Four Things with Amy Brown at gmail dot
com is where you can send emails and if you
want something to end up on the fifth thing, I
just asked that you put fifth thing in the subject
line whether you have a question or something encouraging you
want to share with us, or a quote or anything,
because I mean, I feel like we're our own little
community here and we all help each other out. So
(25:46):
you may have some wisdom that I can read and
share to someone else listening, and it may be exactly
what they needed to hear. So I love hearing from
you all. Appreciate all the notes. And then I know
we were talking about cell phones and ages, but you're
younger than me. Like I had a pager, you probably
never had a page. What year were you born? Nine? Okay?
Well I was asking because we put out our born
(26:07):
year sweatshirts and they're super cute. We only had a
few years to begin with. But just heads up, so
you'll know we have thirty three years now available. Eighty
nine is available. I'm eighty one, it's available, sixty nine
is available? What up? My sister Kim was born in
sixty nine, which He's like, I don't know that I
really want to wear that on a sweatshirt. But we've
sold like ten, so there's ten sixty nine sweatshirts out there.
(26:30):
We kind of didn't think anybody was gonna buy sixty
nine because it's it's awkward. Yeah they do, it's there
you two. So we have yeah, ninety one, which could
be good because a lot of people are turning thirty
this year. The eight ones for people turning forty, O
and O one, so check them out if you want to.
Those are up at shop espoix dot com. And I
(26:53):
hope you'll have a great week and we will see
you on Thursday. Bye bye, cat Cat to fight everybody.
Thank you. You can clot for yourself too, Okay, okay,
Bye
Happy Tuesday. Welcome to the Fifth Thing, the bonus episode
to the Four Things podcast, and I've got my friend
Kat here with me. Kat Defata, host of You Need
Therapy podcast, and she's going to go over some of
the emails that you have sent in. That's what we
dedicate this episode two. But Cat, I always start this
episode off with a quote, and I'm just going to
(00:25):
quote you and your merch because I'm wearing a UNED
Therapy podcast shirt and it just says feel your feelings.
I also have a coffee mug that says feel your feelings.
So that is our quote for today. I like that quote,
feel your feelings. And then coming up, one of the
listeners actually emailed me about finding a therapist, and Cat
(00:45):
is a licensed therapist, so I thought she'd be perfect
to bring on for this. And I get asked that
a lot, and we've addressed it here on the podcast before.
I think Kat has even maybe addressed it at some
point or another. But you never know in conversation how
something might hit you differently, if if you've heard us
addressed this before. And we'll get to that question and
just a little bit. But my first email is from
Taylor in California, and she said, Hey, Amy, I'm listening
(01:06):
to your first Thing and Cat. She's referring to last
Thursday's episode because Mary was on with me for the
first thing. So she said, I was listening to your
first Thing with Mary about her calling you out. Ha ha,
Sorry Mary, What a great friend. But it got me thinking,
I was really surprised to hear you say you were
insecure about aging or how your eyes look, because when
I see photos of you, I would never ever have
(01:28):
thought those things. The exact opposite, actually, and I thought
it was a great reminder that we can be our
own worst critics, and we need to be a lot
nicer to ourselves and see ourselves the way others do,
because I can guarantee others aren't being nearly as critical
of us as we may be to ourselves, and if
they are, then well maybe we don't really care about
their opinion anyways. All that to say, thank you for
(01:49):
sharing that with us and encourage me to be nicer
to myself about my insecurities, realizing that they probably aren't
as big or noticeable as I think they are. All Right,
Kat and other listeners, I can give you the back
story that I had been around Mary a lot in
person because of a lot of different things that were
going on, and she was with me and also with
me during a lot of hard stuff, and I think
(02:12):
that I was just feeling down and on the inside,
and so what was coming out is I was looking
in the mirror and just so tired looking and not
happy with myself. So I was picking my face apart
of uh, it looks so tired, it looks so old,
like what's wrong with my eyes? And this, you know.
And she noticed it once she got back home to
California because the people she was hanging out with, nobody
was commenting on their looks that way. And so then
(02:35):
we were on FaceTime one night and I said it
again and she sort of called me out on it,
and I was grateful for it because she did it
in a very kind way. But she's like, hey, stop
talking about yourself that way. I mean, I'm kind of
paraphrasing it. People can go back and listen to our
chat if they want to his last Thursday's episode, But yeah,
I was just a good reminder of how you can
communicate with a friend, like if you notice a pattern
(02:58):
or something going on with them, and that it's okay
because you're saying it in love and as a friend.
But then also there's a reminder to to not talk
so badly about yourself to yourself. And Mary even pointed
out that I've made so much progress when it comes
to body and food in that area, but then it's
almost like it shifted into somewhere somewhere else, which that
(03:19):
is interesting because what we do know about like body
image and how we see what we look like, it's
based on the interceptive messages we have inside. So how
we feel is how we see ourselves. And so you
probably have been working a lot on being kind to
yourself when you look at your body and commenting on
your body, but you still feel that feeling because you're
going through something hard or tough or whatever that was,
(03:42):
and so those feelings come out in different ways, like
you just said, and so that is an indicator I
would say to anybody if you find yourself being really
horrible to yourself, that's an indicator that it might not
be really what you look like. You're seeing how you feel,
so you see something different than what I see. And
that's why so often a friend will be like, oh
my gosh, I so disgusting or this or that, and
they'll be like, what are you talking about? Because we
(04:03):
see one thing and you see what you feel. It's
so interesting to me. The other thing, though, that I
think is important to point out when it comes to
this stuff, is if you tell yourself something enough times,
your brain is going to start to attach to it
and believe it. You're teaching yourself something about yourself. So
if I say, will say bags under my eyes or
(04:25):
I look tired or I look old. If I say
I look old enough times, eventually my brain is gonna
be like you look old. Versus if I say I
look bright or I look radiant, or I look happy
or I like whatever, that's actually going to be what
you believe about yourself. We have a lot of power
in that. Yeah, And that's what I've had to lean
into ever since, you know, she brought it to my attention.
(04:46):
We were saying she called me out. That's why the
listener even apologized sorry Mary in the email, because Mary's like,
I don't like the way that sounds. I wasn't trying
to call you out, but it's just in a nutshell,
it's sort of what happened. But she brought it to
my attention, and once I was made aware of it,
I've been able to focus on it and I'm working
hard to undo it. But that's exactly what happened. It's
it became a pattern in my brain every single day
(05:07):
and every time I looked in the mirror. So that's
what she was hearing all the time, because that's what
I was saying out loud to her. And you know,
that's exhausting for her as a friend to hear a
friend doing that. But then she said to what can happen?
But it may not be this exact scenario. I'm just
saying for other listeners, what ends up happening to those
around you is then you may cause them to then
look at themselves in a weird way that they never
(05:29):
would have thought of, and then they're starting to break
down if they look tired or old and they're like, well,
if Amy feels old, because I'm old, Because if it's like, well,
if what Amy looks like is what old looks like,
and I feel like Amy looks younger than me, then
that means I really look old. If she thinks she
looks old, you know what I mean? And that's really
confusing and so you don't. You think it's just about you,
(05:49):
but because we are culture of comparison, it becomes about
all of us. Yep. The other thing I would like
to say about the calling people out where I used
to work, we would do it once a week. I'm like,
we would have a group with the clients in once
a week. We would kind of confront each other. We
called them carefrontations. It's like kind, but it's actually like
what Mary did is a really kind thing, Like she said, Hey,
(06:13):
I care about you enough to not ignore this behavior.
It feels like it's hurting you. It might be also
hurting me. But confrontation gets such a bad reputation when
really it can be a very caring, loving thing to
do with a friend. I want my friends to tell
me what they see. If they see something like that,
I don't want them to just like ignore it. And well,
and I think what I was breaking down when I
(06:34):
was processing what happened. Again, we were on FaceTime, but
I received it, And I think if I wasn't in
a good place, I would have gotten defensive and been upset.
But I think because I was been doing so much
work and I'm in a place where I can be
self reflective right now and I can look inside myself
and evaluate maybe there is some truth to that. It
(06:56):
wasn't right away, but it was on the in the
time of the face call that I know that I
was able to say, hey, thanks for saying that to me. Yeah,
and it's also about delivery. I don't think she probably
was mean to you, and she said that no, really
bad has to be a care care frontation. Alright. So
next email is from Elizabeth and South Carolina. I've had
(07:17):
people start to tell me where they're emailing me from
because I'm very curious. So the last one was Taylor
in California. Now we've moved either to South Carolina. Elizabeth said, Hey, Amy,
I absolutely love the genes you're wearing in your recent
Pimp and Joy photo shoot. Where are they from? And
I will tell you they are Mousey vintage m O
(07:37):
U S S Y or maybe it's Mousey. Honestly, I
don't know how to say it. I'm too cool for
these genes. I mean, these are too cool for you.
Switch that these genes are too cool for me. Actually, Kelly,
who's at Velvet's Edge on Instagram, she got me these
genes before the pandemic hit and and I thought, wow,
(08:01):
these are just so out there. But Kelly knows style
was happening. Man, she was way ahead of the curve,
like I'm just now to wear Like, okay, fine, I'll
wear these. They're cool because they're the total straight leg
and wide. Now I wear them all the time, so
I will say they are a little bit of an
investment there, the Odessa wide straight leg jeans. The are cute,
(08:22):
I know, but see, could you imagine maybe two years
ago I would be like, yeah, And that's what I
tried to tell Kelly, but she said, trust me, you're
going to want these. So I think I wore them
once for whatever she wanted me to wear with with heels,
and I felt okay with it. But now I wear
them with flats. These have Now I'm always late to
the trends, but I will say, if you are wanting
(08:44):
to invest in a pair, these are pretty awesome. I
know that made Well has some super cute ones which
would be a different price point and take you down
a little bit. If you bring a pair of jeans
to made Well, you get a discount. If you bring
to donate, they'll do a swap. You can yes, give
them your like denim to recycle, and then yes, they
(09:05):
will give you a discount, and then I think it's
wild fable. I was just at Target. Well I'm trying
to make sure it was wild fable, or I think
it was. They had a wide leg or it's like
a straight leg wide situation. I don't know exactly how
to describe it. But the Target had a pair as well.
(09:26):
There's different varieties of this look, but yeah, if you
go to my Instagram at Radio Amy and you look
at the Bobby Bones Show Pimp and Joy photo from
last week, you'll see the jeans that we're talking about,
and then maybe you can find a pair similar, because yes,
they are very, very very cute. And I mean I'm
not even patting my own self on the back for
that because I didn't pick them out and actually I
was resisting them for quite some time. So thank you
(09:49):
for the note, Elizabeth. And now Kat is over here
shopping but there is only one size left. But can
I make a comment about jeans. Yeah, I've gone through
this revelation the past couple of weeks, which feels seems
like I should have gone through this revelation earlier. But
this year, I decided one I'm going to invest in
pants that I really think I feel good in, especially
(10:10):
Jane shorts. It's summer, and I've always had an issue
with finding Gene shorts that actually fit my body because
of you know just how Geene shorts are made, and
this is a very simple thing. But this year, I
said to myself, I'm not going to go to a
million stores and by a million pairs of shorts and
try to make myself fit in in this pear of
Jeenes or this peara Jeanes, or this pear of genes
(10:31):
and get frustrated when I don't. I'm going to find
a pair of genes that I like that fit in
one area of my body, and then I'm going to
make the genes fit me by altering them. It's a
little thing, but in in my head it's why have I,
for the past thirty something years been trying to fit
my body into this one mold when bodies are so different.
We know that all bodies are in all different shapes
(10:52):
and sizes. It really is crazy to think that the
same style and cut of one thing would be right
for me and you because we're so different, and that
doesn't have to do with you being better and me
being worse when it comes to what our bodies looks like.
So it was very empowering for me to find a
pair of Jeene shorts like how they fit in one
part of my body, and then go get them taken
(11:13):
in or altered that fit the other part of my body.
And now, for the first time literally in my life
where I have not been in an active eating disorder,
I was so excited to put on Geene shorts yesterday.
I love that. That's awesome that and you also just
posted recently about sports our sports back. Well one scorts
are back, but I just got it. Scot is so cute.
(11:35):
Two years from now, I will be working because I'm
always behind. But yeah, so tell people what a scort
is in case they don't know. Well, a scirt is
something that is it's shorts, but it looks like a
skirt from the front. And I got this super cute
Gene skirt from American Eagle that I saw somebody on
Instagram wearing and I'm obsessed with it. It's so comfortable,
(11:57):
it's stretchy, it's the best. American Eagle. They also have
good genes, so does Abercrombie, just saying they have some
mom Even if you're not a mom, you're gonna what
the I bought a pair of shorts from them and
it's there, they said. It's advertising. Really gets me when
people use words like our number one best seller. I'm like, well, okay,
then I'll get that one. Oh, I guess I need
(12:18):
to buy it. And then I'm thinking, don't fall for that.
But they really are awesome, and they're like the mom
high waisted short and they're a little bit longer in
the back and then like there's a slit and so
they rise up a little bit in the front but
not too short. So there's some options for some denom
So hopefully you can find something in there that you like.
(12:38):
Thank you for the email, Elizabeth Alright. Next note is
from Aaron Man. I don't think Aaron, but where she
was from won't want We'll just have to guess or
not know, or you can pretend she's from wherever. But
she said, hey me a longtime Bobby Bones show listener
and New R four Things listener. Here. I'm writing because
(13:00):
I wanted to see if you had any advice on
how to find the right therapist as I listened to
the Bobby Bones show and podcast. I hear you talk
very openly about your own therapy, and I know you're
very passionate about your time with your therapist. I find
myself in a place where I think talking to someone
would really help with some internal struggles that I'm having.
There are so many options psychiatrist, psychologist, licensed clinical social worker,
(13:23):
et cetera. I was curious if you would be comfortable
sharing your experience and finding someone and if you had
any thoughts on the differences between all of the many options. So, Cat,
what is the difference between a psychiatrist and a psychologist
and a licensed clinical social work? Okay, so that I
actually like that. She added that part because a psychologist,
a psychiatrist, and a therapist are all different things. Yes,
(13:45):
a psychiatrist is somebody who goes their doctors, they go
to med school, and they specialize in psychiatry, like they
could prescribe your medicine. They're great for one thing, but
you don't usually see a psychiatrist for therapy. A psychologist
can be a therapist as well, but most of the
time somebody who's a psychologist is going to be more
invested in research and that area than just doing one
(14:09):
on one private practice, although they can, and a lot
of times people that become psychologists get a master's degree
in like um clinical counseling or something like that on
their way to becoming a psychologist, if that makes sense. Ye.
When it comes to therapy, they're the main things a
license professional counselor. So that's what I am. There is
a licensed clinical social worker, that's somebody who gets a
(14:32):
master's in social work. And then there is a marriage
and family therapist who gets their graduate degree in marriage
and family therapy. All of those can operate as a therapist.
They can all We can all do essentially the same thing,
but we have different backgrounds and different trainings, and we
are taught and invest more time in certain areas and
certain things. Okay, So I know that my person that
(14:53):
I go to my therapist now is a licensed clinical
social worker, So what are you again? Licensed profession counselor.
The initials at the end of our names are different,
but we can do the same thing, okay. And then
there are experiential therapists. I've learned this, So the person
that I'm seeing, she is experiential and like Linda who
I did my intensive with she was experiential, So explain
(15:18):
that for people, because I've really personally enjoyed that. So
experiential therapist you can get extra trainings in that, but
that's not like you go to school for that. So
I am an experiential therapist, but I don't do that
in every session with every single client. But experiential therapy
just brings in metaphor and experience into the therapy room,
(15:39):
so you're not just talking. We'll do things like I'll
get a box of scarves out and be like, pick
a scarf that represents how you're feeling, or pick a
scarf that represents your mom, like Linda made me pick
out a beanie baby yes or well yes. Or when
I did adventure therapy that was experiential, we would go
out in the woods and do all these really cool
initiatives and act ativities that mimicked the feelings we have
(16:03):
that are going on and what we're dealing with inside.
That makes sense. And so to circle back to Aaron's email,
like how does she best find out who's for her?
And again, this is a question I get a lot.
I know it's a question. You get a lot, especially
being a therapist and you're on Instagram and you host
you need therapy podcasts, So I know that you get
this question as well, So how do you respond to it?
(16:25):
So when I have a post on you need Therapy
Podcasts Instagram account and it's in the highlights, So if
you go to at you need therapy podcast you can
find it in the highlights and it gives you a
couple of steps to find somebody. But basically, what I
would recommend anybody to do is first figure out, like
what is it that you're wanting? What do you want
to go to therapy for? Because yeah, somebody could have
(16:46):
the same degree and letters behind their name is me,
but I might do something different. Where I specialized in
one thing, they might specialize in another. So really tried
if you can get an understanding of what you want
and what you're looking for. And then what I would
really recommend is if you can try to ask around
and get a word of mouth referral. I think those
can be the most beneficial and the most helpful, maybe
(17:07):
if you have a friend that sees a therapist. My
clients all the time asked me for referrals for their
friends because a lot of times you don't want your
friend to also see your same therapist, because what if
you talk about each other and you know, it's just
a weird, awkward Yeah, but I have people that I
can then my clients and then their friends will go
see them. So if you can find a word of mouth,
that's a really really helpful way to do that. You
(17:28):
can also look online at places like Psychology Today, and
you can look at what people say that they specialize
in when it comes to picking somebody based on psychiatrist, psychologist,
social worker, this, that whatever. If you're looking for therapy,
like the therapy that we talk about, you're really going
to be looking for a licensed professional counselor marriage and
family therapist, or a licensed clinical social worker. All three
(17:51):
of those can do the same things. I worked at
a place that half of the people were licensed clinical
social workers, so we did the same thing, we just
had different background. Yeah, and you might have to go
try it out with people, or there are resources online
where therapy is becoming more accessible, and you know, you
might find someone that you can do virtual sessions with.
(18:12):
I mean sometimes even just talking things out helps so much,
but you want to make sure you vibe with the
person and I've honestly had therapists afore. I just thought,
you know, I just don't end up going back because
it's not a good fit. And then I find you
know the right person, and I know it's a good fit,
but I'm still having to put in a lot of
work and effort because yeah, it's not fun starting that
(18:34):
process over because there is a lot that they need
to get to know and understand about you, and that
takes times. You have to be patient. It's not something
that's just going to be a quick fix, or you
think you can go a couple of times and then Waila.
I think that you'll have sessions where you walk out
feeling better. Sometimes you have sessions where you walk out
feeling really heavy, and I'm like, I feel like we
just unpacked some stuff. But then hopefully the next week
(18:56):
you can start putting some of it back together. But
I guess my thing with that is it's nothing's overnight, right,
and it's it's ongoing work. I think there are different
seasons in your life where you may need it more
than others, and your therapist may tell you it's appropriate
to take a break. You know, I read that book,
Maybe you should talk to someone Lori Gottlieb, and I
think in there she talked about and maybe you might
(19:18):
remember because I know you read it too, but that, yeah,
there comes a time where the therapist even feels it too,
that like, hey, we're done, we're kind of done, so
you're you're free be a bird by way, and also
like you can be done with what I can offer you,
and maybe you need somebody else. And that's two things. One,
there's so much power in being okay with taking the
(19:42):
initiative to find the therapist that's right for you and
not feeling like the first person you go and talk
to has to be your therapist. Now, if you were
going to not go back after the first session, I
would encourage you to dig deeper into that because sometimes
people just get scared and walk away. But I also
think it's okay to say, like, that didn't feel right,
that wasn't a match for me. So often I think
(20:02):
people go back because they feel bad for us the therapist,
and I would offer you don't have to worry about
that because we can take care of ourselves, and a
good therapist will not take it personally because we know
we're not the best fit for everybody. And then the
other part is when it's time to terminate therapy or
transition or whatever you want to say, is, yeah, our
goal isn't for you to come forever. Our goal is
(20:24):
for you at one point not need us. And so
it's actually a really cool conversation when a client tells me,
I think I'm ready to go, like I'm ready for
something else. That also is not something that as a
therapist we should be taking personally, because that's a good
that means we did our job essentially, right, Yeah, yeah, no,
that's I mean, it's good for people to understand the
full process that it may not you don't have to
(20:44):
be scared of, Like if you sign up for therapy,
then now you're signing up for something the rest of
your life with that person. And my I have a
therapist and I'll see her. I saw her for like
three years, probably once a week or every other week,
and now I see her when something's going on, I'll
go see her for a uple weeks in a row,
and then I'll take a break. Like I still have
her in my life and she's really helpful and I
(21:05):
really really adore her and value her, but I don't
have to see her every single week and she's okay
with that too. That's like the point. Yeah, well, so
good luck with that. Um, thank you for the email, Aaron.
I know it's it's a big leap to start something
like that, so we just want to send encouragement your way.
And in the meantime too, you could also listen to
I mean shameless plug here for Cat, but you could
(21:26):
also listen to her podcast. It's not a replacement for
therapy by any means, but there are a lot of
great resources on that Instagram page for the podcast, and
then in the podcast itself with different interviews and talks
and topics that Cat brings up. So check it out, subscribe, rate,
and review you need therapy podcast. Thank you. Cat is
(21:48):
on my podcast network by the way, in case anybody
didn't know, UM, but I'm thankful to have her on
there because I think Cat is really awesome. She's very smart.
I think she delivers things and are really easy to
understand and way, and I was honored to have you
come aboard the podcast with Lisa Ham who has a
podcast called Truthius Life, and you're about to go on
(22:10):
that too. I am as well, so Cat and I
will both be I don't know where that's going to
be on. Lisa's podcast is Truthius Life, which y'all should
subscribe right in review to that podcast too. And then
Lisa and I co host out Way Together, which Lisa
is gonna be having a baby soon, so there might
be some episodes cat where you and I are. I
would love co hosting out Way Together. Love that all right.
(22:32):
Last and final, which is the fourth email, is from
Colleen oh Man. Again no no, no city, but yes,
in case you are a new listener, I love to
hear well your name and where you're from, and then
you can sign the email your friend because we're gonna
from Arizona. Oh she is, okay, So quick question. This morning,
(22:52):
you mentioned the cell phone that has been working for
your daughter. I looked it up, but I was in
the middle of getting ready and I need the cell
name again because I tried to pull it back up
on my browser and it was gone. So I guess
she has a son and it's summertime and he's gonna
be around the neighborhood and hanging out with friends. So
if you are looking to get your kid a cell phone,
what we gave our daughter is the gab Wireless. So
(23:16):
I pulled something from their website and says, gab Wireless
is dedicated to providing a safe cellphone for kids. No
really a safe cellphone for kids, no internet, no social media,
no games, no worries. So boring, I know, but supposed
to do right and so she's able to call us
if she needs to call us. Now full disclosure, my
(23:37):
daughter does have an iPad that has certain games on it.
Really we got that for her because she really wanted
to Procreate, which is an art app. She loves art
and drawing and coloring. And then from there she does
have access to you know, text and FaceTime with certain people.
But it's linked up with an iPhone that my husband
(23:57):
and I have, so we can see every single interaction
that happens on that iPad because it's not the main
purpose of it. But she does have certain apps on there,
but no social media. She doesn't have Instagram or anything.
And I don't know when that day will come. I mean,
she's fourteen, so we're just kind of feeling some stuff out.
But she has adopted. She's only been in America three
(24:19):
and a half years, so she's a little bit behind,
thank goodness. Uh, socially and emotionally and stuff like that.
So even though she's fourteen, I don't feel like I'm
dealing with what some other parents of fourteen year olds
might be dealing with, you know what I'm saying. So
thankful for that. But the GAB wireless it looks kind
of like an iPhone, so it's not like a cheesy
(24:40):
kid phone. It doesn't look childish, and I think that
that's helpful because you know, a fourteenerald doesn't want to
be embarrassed with their cute little like frog phone that
can call three people, you know, because like she's or
like what we had, like a brick Nokia like walkie talkie.
Well I didn't even what I had when I when
I was pager, we didn't have definitely doesn't want to yeah,
(25:04):
she well, we might go back to that and I'll
be like, and you have to find find a pay
phone or a school phone and just look like an iPhone.
It does, yeah, I mean, and I feel like We've
been super happy with it. So Colleen, Gab wireless, hopefully
that's something you can check out for your son. And
thanks for the email, all right, and thank you everyone
that is listening and for sending in notes. Love hearing
(25:25):
from you. Four Things with Amy Brown at gmail dot
com is where you can send emails and if you
want something to end up on the fifth thing, I
just asked that you put fifth thing in the subject
line whether you have a question or something encouraging you
want to share with us, or a quote or anything,
because I mean, I feel like we're our own little
community here and we all help each other out. So
(25:46):
you may have some wisdom that I can read and
share to someone else listening, and it may be exactly
what they needed to hear. So I love hearing from
you all. Appreciate all the notes. And then I know
we were talking about cell phones and ages, but you're
younger than me. Like I had a pager, you probably
never had a page. What year were you born? Nine? Okay?
Well I was asking because we put out our born
(26:07):
year sweatshirts and they're super cute. We only had a
few years to begin with. But just heads up, so
you'll know we have thirty three years now available. Eighty
nine is available. I'm eighty one, it's available, sixty nine
is available? What up? My sister Kim was born in
sixty nine, which He's like, I don't know that I
really want to wear that on a sweatshirt. But we've
sold like ten, so there's ten sixty nine sweatshirts out there.
(26:30):
We kind of didn't think anybody was gonna buy sixty
nine because it's it's awkward. Yeah they do, it's there
you two. So we have yeah, ninety one, which could
be good because a lot of people are turning thirty
this year. The eight ones for people turning forty, O
and O one, so check them out if you want to.
Those are up at shop espoix dot com. And I
(26:53):
hope you'll have a great week and we will see
you on Thursday. Bye bye, cat Cat to fight everybody.
Thank you. You can clot for yourself too, Okay, okay,
Bye
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
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