September 26, 2023 • 39 mins
In this episode, Leanne and special guest Pastor Kevin Queen delve into the beliefs that often keep people from forming a meaningful relationship with God. They explore the misconceptions, worldly views, and unbiblical beliefs that can hinder individuals from connecting with their spirituality, inviting listeners to consider new possibilities.
Beliefs Explored Were:
"I’m too broken-- too far gone."
Addressing feelings of unworthiness, the podcast highlights God's love and forgiveness.
"My shame is different/worse than others'."
Emphasizing that shame is a common struggle, the episode provides a biblical perspective on coping.
"I’ve been this way far too long."
Discussing transformation and redemption, the podcast assures it's never too late to begin anew with God.
"God is mad at me."
Correcting the misconception of God's anger, the episode emphasizes His love and forgiveness.
"I was around religion growing up, and I know what it’s like. I don't want 'that'."
Distinguishing religion from a genuine relationship with God, the podcast encourages exploration.
"What would my family think?" and "What would my friends think?"
Addressing concerns about family and peer reactions, listeners are urged to explore their beliefs independently.
The episode wraps up by reiterating the invitation to listeners: "Just try on this new story, this new possibility." It emphasizes the importance of challenging and reevaluating these beliefs about God, regardless of your current beliefs, to open your hearts and minds to a different perspective on spirituality and God.
HOST: @LeanneEllington
GUEST: Pastor Kevin Queen @crosspoint.tv or https://crosspoint.tv/
To learn more about Leanne, head over to www.LeanneEllington.com, and to share your to share your thoughts, questions, feedback, or guest suggestions instantly, head on over to www.WhatsGodGotToDoWithIt.com.
What's God Got to Do With It is an iHeartRadio podcast on the Amy Brown Podcast network. It's written and hosted by Leanne Ellington, Executive Produced by Elizabeth Fazio, Post Production and Editing by Houston Tilley, and Original music written by Cheryl Stark & produced by Adam Stark.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
If you want to go on a journey.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
If you're skeptical, don't worry.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Not here to preach, want to keep it clean and
talk to me and recad where faith needs, stops nature
and get in touch with your creator with a bacon,
love and jo She even speaks Hebrew.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
What's that? As well? Sation? You should talking transformation?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
What's done?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Got to do?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
All right, we are back and I'm back with my
good friend Kevin Queen. Hello, Kevin, welcome back.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Good to be back.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Thanks for having that on.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yes, well, last episode was a powerhouse and I think,
you know, one of the things that's really helpful and
was helpful for me is, you know, meeting myself in
my doubt, right, because when we talk about this idea
of believing in what you can't yet see or smell
or taste or touch, you know, that's part of what
faith is. And you know, sometimes we have to meet
ourselves in our doubt to bring ourselves over to a
(01:13):
new sense of certainty or really dipping our toes into
the next level of what we want to try on.
So one of the things the big things that kept
coming up for me were and I talk about this
in the work that I do with with my clients
is we have these beliefs, you know, and it's really
just thoughts that we think over and over again, and
then they become beliefs. They become a download of what
(01:35):
we perceive to be true about ourselves. And then we
live in these beliefs and we think that they're true
or we think that they're real because they feel real,
and then they become part of our identity. They become
part of our self image, and they turn into those
I am statements like Oh I am this way or
this is just what I do, this is just who
I am. And I think some of the beliefs that
I had to really just come to head with and
(01:58):
really just unvail also to speak so I could reveal
them and not have them really kind of sabotage what
I was thinking and doing and saying needed to be
brought to light for me to even see that they
were kind of keeping me far from God and keeping
me from thinking that I was worthy of having this
relationship with God. So some of the ones that came
up for me, some of the ones that my clients
(02:19):
have shared with me have come up for them when
they're entering into the spiritual conversation, and I'd love to
just get your take on them, hear what you say here,
what scripture says, because I think part of it too
is it's easy for us to recognize when something's not
true or that it can't be true, But then what
is the new truth? What actually resonates with us? You know,
And it's a big departure to be like, oh, I'm
(02:41):
so broken, I'm awful to know I'm so lovable. It's
not a jump like that. It can't be. We've got
to meet ourselves in our doubt. So before we dive in,
i'd love to hear, like, just what are your thoughts
about the beliefs that come up for us and that
we download and walk around with, and just kind of
share your take on that.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Yeah, I think that so much of our battlefield is
in our mind right. And there's a movie called The
Usual Suspects, And at the end of Usual Suspects, it's
starting with one of the greatest tricks that the that
Satan never used was commencing people that he doesn't exist,
you know. But I think one of the one of
(03:17):
the evidences of Gosh of the way that the enemy
that Satan works. And Jesus said, you know, he said,
Satan is like a like a lion who prowls around
looking for who he would devour. He said, I've come,
I've come. She would have abundant life.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
He said. The enemy comes to steal, kill, and destroy.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
And one of the ways that he steals our joy,
and that he he kills our hope, and that he
destroys like life to the full are with these what
I would call like defeatist beliefs, you know, and these
these which truly are lies. He's the father of lies.
That's another way that Jesus talks about him.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
And and he's he's.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Counterfeiter, you know, and so like really they call him
the father.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
You're a father of things you create.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
The only thing that say never created was lies and
so so many of us, and it's so easy to
get entangled and lies that have been informed maybe from
our for our past and maybe aren't part of that truth.
So what I'd love to do, I mean, is we
kind of talk, maybe talk through some of those lies
or some of those thoughts, and how do we replace
those lies with truth? And maybe the way we get
(04:29):
to some truth. You said something In the last episode,
you talked about putting on a new story, and so
what if we put on some new stories and look
at some stories of how Jesus interacted with people in
the Gospels. And what I hope people understand is that
God is not a favorite person's all right, So he
loves everybody who are all. We've all been created in
(04:51):
the image of God. He loves everybody the same, and
it's his will that all, it's his desire that all
would come to know him. And so maybe we can
do is see ourselves as of these people in the
Gospels and to see the way the disciples were Like Jesus,
if you show us, the Father will believe, and He's like,
if you've seen me, you've seen the Father. In other words,
if you want to know what God looks like, look
at me. And so let's find truth like Jesus and
(05:14):
I'm the way the truth in life.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Let's find truth by looking at.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Jesus and the way that he treats people, you know,
and the way that he interacts with people who maybe
would have believed some of these lies.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
That's cold.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
So I think that's a beautiful framework. So let's just
dive right in you know one, this is a big one.
But you know, the first belief or lie that comes
up and keeps people far from God or keeps them
from having a relationship is I'm too broken or I'm
too far gone. Yeah, what do you say about that one?
Speaker 4 (05:42):
You know?
Speaker 3 (05:42):
I think that for me that resonates for when I
was arrested at sixteen, like being in the back of
a police car, and I think about like, in that moment,
I'm like, man, I had lived this double life for
so long, but there was the moment where I.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Was like, Okay, am I going to follow Jesus? Or
am I going to go ride in the back of.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Police cars cycle in the future?
Speaker 4 (06:02):
But this this the.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Lie in that moment was I'm too far gone, like
that I can't come back from this moment, that this
is going to be my history, you know, forever. And
I think we've probably all had moments like that where
a lie like that comes in. I think about this
one guy. His name was Legion, and he lived on
the other side of the Sea of Galilee, which is
like a region called the Decapitalists. And it said that
(06:24):
he lived in the tombs and he had chains that
had been broken and he cut himself with rocks. So
here's this guy who is just tormented, either from things
that have happened to him or things has past. Jesus
takes the disciples and they go on a boat ride
to the de capitalist to the other side. They get
over there and it says, this man runs at Jesus.
So think about it, like you're one of the Talmudim.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
You wanted the disciples.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
You're like, this is it, Like this is how the
Messiah goes down like some crazy and this said the
man was naked, some crazy naked man running at the Messiah.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Like to take it. He's got that he's living among
the tombs.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
It's like this man is too far gone in their perspective.
Jesus has a conversation. He comes to me, falls at Jesus' feet.
Jesus heals him. Next thing we know, the man is
like dressed and in his right mind. The talentspeople are
coming out, going what has happened. The man pleads with
Jesus and he's like, let me go with you, and
Jesus said, no.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Go home, into your story.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
I go tell your family. He sends him back to
his family. I love that story, because if anybody was
too far gone, it was this man who people knew
his legions, you know, this man who was living among
the tombs, like and Jesus goes to the I believe
Jesus went to the other side of the Sea of Galilee,
the lake, right, They went to the other side of
the lake for this one man, just so that we
(07:38):
would have a picture to go nobody's too far gone,
you know. And that's how he meets us in that
place if we just come to him, that he can
bring us freedom, and he can reveal to us who
we truly are, and then he sends us back, you know,
back into life to be to live out that new
identity in him.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
So absolutely, And I remember when I first started again
learning about this guy called Jesus, you know, I would
hear him like, yeah, he hung out with murderers and adults,
ers and you know, thieves and all these things. And
it's not that he was condoning it, right, So I
think part of this idea of healing really and and
(08:19):
coming home to yourself and going home is really acknowledging Hey,
yes I have shame, but this isn't who I want
to be any longer and really renewing and committing to
that transformation. It's not this like, oh I have Jesus,
it's a get out of jail free card to just
keep sinning and keep shaming and you know, keep doing
the thing that's causing shame. There's obviously an element of
(08:40):
you know, restoration and renewal, but don't disqualify yourself from
being being worthy of that because of your shath.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
And maybe what we do is draw a distinction between
guilt and shame. So guilt says I've done a bad thing,
you know, Shame says I am a bad person. And yeah,
that's the toxic shame piece. And so I think, you know,
we talked about like the way Satan works.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Here's one of.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
The things that just made that makes me like when
I think back about like temptation, So temptation, we might
be tempted to do a certain thing, like let's say,
the temptation to lie. Did I tell the truth? And
so we get in a situation, maybe you get in
a situation at work and may do I tell the
truth or do I life lie get out of it?
And so we were like, nah, I don't need a lie.
(09:27):
But then we come, we just tell the lie. Then
the temptation before is, hey, if you tell this lie,
nobody's going to know. Everything's going to be easier. You're
going to get through this, not a big deal. But
then the moment you tell the lie and then the
shame comes in, You're a liar, you're a loser.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
Everybody's going to know.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
The way that things shift in that moment. For me,
that's more of an apologetic or an understanding of like
that evil and that satan and that lies and temptation
like is really goes back to this, there is this
foreset play to pull us away from who we're created
to be, you know. And so the way that lies work,
(10:12):
that shame that comes after that moment that says.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
You're a bad person.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
At first it was just do a thing, and then
it became a part of well, this is part of
your identity. And I'm just like, that's just the way
that that satan works. It's evidence of that the Father
of lies.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Absolutely, what you did is not who you are, and
where you are is not who you are, and your
circumstances are not who you are. And I think we
confuse the two and we take what we did, and
we identify as the thing, and that's what turns into
toxic shame. And when it doesn't get acknowledged and shine
a light on, and then of course the secrecy that
usually comes alongside shame, it just festers and then builds
(10:48):
on layer on top of layer. So yeah, that's such
an important distinction. And it's interesting. The second belief or
lie that I was going to talk about is that
my shame is different or worse than others. So I
think we talked about this little bit last time where
we kind of categorize our shame, you know, and again
just talking about you know, Jesus hung out with not condoting,
but you know, murders, adulters, you know, all the things
(11:10):
and I you know, all the things that you hear
about that come up in in your church community, whether
you know you have men that are addicted to plural
or set or women too. I'm sure you know. I know,
I deal with a lot of women that have you know,
they feel addicted to sugar and food, whether it is
you know, adultery, drugs, crime, whatever it is. You know,
And there's testimony after testimony of testimony of you know,
(11:32):
becoming a new creation but what do you say about
if somebody has a belief of like no, you don't understand,
like that shame is fine, Like that can be forgiven
about my shame? No, what do you say about if
(11:52):
somebody has a belief of like no, you don't understand,
like that shame is fine, Like that can be forgiven
about my shame?
Speaker 3 (11:58):
No. So I think that that the enemy's strategy are
secrets and isolation. You know, And then you probably heard
to said like, we're only as sick as our secrets.
So in the scriptures it talks about confess your sin
to one another and you'll be healed. You probably heard
have said like that, we're only as sick as our secrets.
And if we confess our sins, to want to know,
(12:18):
like there's healing, that healing that takes place. So I
just encourage like if maybe there's an intrusive thought or
maybe there's a struggle, be able to say that to
somebody else, because then we realized, we realize I'm not
alone and there are other people with us. Well, you know,
I think about like talking about story and narrative and
putting a story on There was a time where Jesus
the pharisees of the religious leaders brought a woman who
(12:40):
was caught in adultery to Jesus and they wanted to
shame her. Actually they wanted to they want to kill
her because you know, according to the law that was
what adultery.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Would lead to death.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Jesus is sitting there. They bring this woman up, and
it's interesting. He starts drawing in the sand, and we
don't know what he was drawing, but he starts drawing
in the sand, and then he tells him. He says, hey,
let whichever one of you is without sin, let them
cast the first stone. Now, what happens next is that
all of the religious leaders they start dropping those stones
(13:15):
and then they leave and it's the woman who's standing
there with Jesus. Jesus, where are your accusers? He said, well,
I don't condemn you either. He said, I'll go and
send no more.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
And he is the only one who was without sin.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
But he didn't pick up a stone, because he would
take he would become the sacrifice for our sin, for
her sin, for all of us. I think the reason
that he drew in the sand is to draw the
attention off of her nakedness, off of what she would
have fell in that moment with shame to draw the
(13:54):
attention off of her, and to draw the attention because
when somebody's writing in the sand, everybody wils to know
what are they writing. And maybe he wrote the names
of people who in that in that group, who were
committed the same sin. Right, But you just see the
beauty of Jesus as a rabbi and his you know,
his willingness to remove shame, to take shame off of
(14:15):
other people, and then to be able to set.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Her free and to go. I don't condemn you either,
just go go and live.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
And I think every time we fail, we can come
to him.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
And because he's not.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
A favorite person's, he loves us all the same.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
He loves us like he.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Does that woman. We bring our shame to him and
he loves the shame off of us.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Wow, he loves the shame off of us. Gosh, that's
so powerful. And I think it also brings up the
point that it's so important to find people that you
feel safe sharing with, because you know that's part of it.
It's like people that have so much toxic shame, they
don't want to share because they don't feel safe, because
they feel like they're being judged. And one of the reasons,
(14:57):
you know, over the years in the work that I do,
I've left with my own shame of like here's mine, right,
it because it enables people to be safe to share
their own and know that they're not going to be judged.
And I think that you know, different there's different elements
for different people that they need to feel that safety.
But I think part of it is for me, at least,
(15:17):
it was when I met people that knew Jesus and
knew the love of Jesus. It's almost like my shame
and my sin didn't matter because the love was there
and the acceptance was there, and it almost like tore
down the walls of secrecy because there was this element
of safety. And so I think, you know, surrounding yourself,
if I mean we all haven't too. We know those
(15:38):
people in our lives were like, we're not safe to
be who we really are. They're going to judge us, right,
And that's okay. You don't have to go audit all
of your friends, but you know who people are, and
know who people are and in your life and really seek
out that safety for yourself, psychological safety almost to be
able to be who you are and get that help,
because the first step to acknowledging that you have a
(16:00):
problem is first and foremost acknowledging yourself, but feeling able
to to voice it and get that support and be
heard and have it received.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Yeah, I think all of us have a sense of intuition,
with spidey sense, right, I mean, we we can tell
when somebody's safer, when they're not, and if that's been damaged,
either because of trauma or because of what's happened in
the past. I'm like, you can start with a counselor,
but the moment then you share it is somebody is
no longer a secret, you know. And so I think,
I think go to a professional. I think you will
(16:28):
start when we talk about you know, pastor pastors. By
by law, confidentiality is required. But I'm saying if if
you don't feel there, if you don't feel safe there,
go to a counselor. I think looking at friends, I mean,
I think it's like trusting them with a little bit
at a time, you know.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
And I think sure learning over time who.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
You can trust and that in those in those deeper ways,
it just really is really is a gift.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
It has our sorrows and it doubles our joys. You know,
have a friend like.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
That, absolutely absolutely. So coming to the next belief, which
or lie we should say, is I've been this way
for far too long. So it's another way of saying
like I'm far too gone. But like again, when we
look at historically who we've been and how we've shown up,
and we think like, no, you don't understand. I've been
this way my entire life. You're telling me that there
(17:17):
is hope. Yeah, what would you say to that?
Speaker 3 (17:20):
So when Jesus was on the cross, there were two
people that was one on his left when I was right, and.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
And he what was a murderer when was a thief?
Speaker 3 (17:27):
And he got to Jesus, He's like one of curses him,
and the other says.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Will you remember me? You know today?
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Will you?
Speaker 4 (17:35):
And so I'm like, Okay.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
That guy had been there, been that way his entire life,
and here he was coming to the end of his.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
Life and Jesus tells him, surely.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Today, like you'll be with him like the moment at
the end of his life like that, he's on his
deathbed and he puts his faith in his trust, and
Jesus brings him a word of peace and just like
I'm gonna, I'm gonna take.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Care of you.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
So I'm like, I don't know of another picture in
scripture if somebody weird your entire life, and even if
it is to that moment, to know that that coming home.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
So I would say, at any point we come.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
And I think, you know, when I think of people
that I know in my life, I.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
Think about you.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
My grandfather who was eighty six years old, and he
lived a certain kind of way, and it was that
we still have the chair that he was sitting in.
I mean, he passed away years ago, but we still
held onto the chair where he put his faith in
trust and he finally knew forgiveness and and some to
receive forgiveness from God. And so you received that forgiveness
(18:34):
from God in that chair, and I think at that
moment he was able to forgive himself, you know. And
that so that chair is a picture that no matter
how long you've been in that place, that transformation is
always possible. And I saw it in his life so absolutely.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
And you know what this gave time for me too,
is like this idea of you know, for my own
versions of I've been this way for far too long.
One thing that I can look back and say, well,
I never addressed it. It was a spiritual struggle, you know.
So it's like, well, what are you what have you done?
I know a lot of women I talked to They're like, oh,
I've done therapy, I've done this and that, and like, well,
have you ever in the case of you know, their
(19:10):
relationship with food and their bodies, have you ever taken
like a brain based approach? And then if people do
have a spiritual life, I'm like, have you ever taken
a spiritual approach to this? So part of it too
is like, you know, what have you been doing to
address you know, the thing that you've been air quotes
doing for as long as you can remember? And have
you ever given it over to God and surrendered it
and you know, released, relinquished these chains of control which
(19:32):
are just they're such a facade in a way, you know.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
And I think that's one of the lies. One of
the lies is that I knew for me in struggles
and things that I've had in my past, I knew
for me. And there was there was one struggle where
I thought I'll always remember the last time. And I
was like, I'll know that I have breakthrough when I
can't remember the last time.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
And for that.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Particular struggle, dude, like I can't remember the last time. Yeah,
and so I have evidence in my life that, you know,
the lie was, I'll always be able to remember if
I can't now. So I think that's and if that
can happen with me, like that can happen with anybody,
you know. And uh, and so I think getting around
some other people who have experienced the breakthrough in the
(20:15):
transfer and then there's hope, and then having conversation about like, well,
how how has that been true?
Speaker 4 (20:22):
You know for you? How has that?
Speaker 3 (20:23):
I think that's one of the gifts of AA. Yeah,
getting in a community with some people, having a conversation
about our vulnerability in that place of surrender where we're
not in surrender by ourselves, we're in community with others.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, and you're almost in borrowing other people's faith and
borrowing other people's beliefs, you know, until you build your own,
it's right, you know. So I love that. Okay, this
is a big one. I'm sure the God is mad
(20:56):
at me.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Lie.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
You know, they feel like maybe they disappointed him again,
there's that toxic shame. God is bad at me. Talk
to us about that, lie.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Yeah, I think if if your God is mad at you,
you might have.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
It awn on Amen, Like, can you say more about that?
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (21:12):
I mean I think where Jesus will go back when
he says, if you've.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Seen me, you seen the Father.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
The only time we really see Jesus mad, well, they
were a couple of times, but they were It was
like in the temple where he's flipping over tables. And
the reason that he did that is because the religious
leaders they had well, I mean they're people who had
set up these these tables to try to try to
take advantage of gentiles who were trying to get in
(21:38):
and offer their sacrifice. And so they were like up
charging them and they were they were just trying to
take them in, and so they had turned the court
of gentiles, the place where those gentiles would worship, into
a marketplace. And so Jesus turns over those tables and
he's like, my father's house is a house of prayer,
because that would have been the place where where the
gentiles would have come in and been able to pray.
(22:00):
And I think that's that's what makes Jesus mad is
when people create other barriers for other people to encounter
the heart of God. You know, Yeah, so does Jesus
get mad? Yeah, but it's not with people because they
(22:20):
admit their own brokenness and.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
Because of their sin and because there.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
And when that mad thing, it was because there were barriers.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
And so I think what we see.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
In Jesus, he's tearing down every barrier. And his heart
is a heart of unconditional love for people to draw near.
And so if you feel like God is mad, you know,
at you, so you might have their own one, you know,
because his heart is full of love, and in pursuit.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
He just wants you to come home.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
It's just kind. He wants you to come home unto him.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
And I think the enemy wants us to leave that
so that we'll stay far off. And so we think, well,
I got to work and like act a certain way
so that then God likes you. He likes you right
now and he's in a really good mood toward you.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
But we just we just asked him.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
He said, he said a really really good goodnod. And
that's what it means to be loved unconditionally. But so
many of us have never known, you know, love like that.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Absolutely. Yeah, And that's where I would say, try on
a new story, like you see, you've got the wrong God.
It's like, yeah, that's something God.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
I know.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
The God Ido would just be so happy that you're
showing up now, like I said, the God that I do.
He didn't care that it was a rabbi or a pastor.
It happened to be a pastor. It didn't care that
it was a church or temple. It happened to be
a church. He was just glad that at thirty five
years old, now it was five years ago. I just said, yes,
I want to know you.
Speaker 4 (23:46):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
And if he got mad in the scriptures, it was
because people were putting up barriers so that people could
know that he's not mad, right really, like I mean,
he was wanting people to know that so much that
he was tearing those states and so that kind of
religion that would cause people to think that like that's
the thing that gree is or.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Absolutely, and that's actually a perfect segue into the next
liear belief is you know a lot of people they
grew up in a certain type of you know, religion,
or you know, the good, bad, right, wrong, should shouldn't
kind of mentality, the shame driven kind of mentality. So
this idea of like, no, you know, the whole God conversation,
like I don't really want that. I grew up around it,
and I saw what it did to my mom or
(24:26):
my dad, and I just I don't like it. So
what would you say to that? I might even just
be a continuation of that last conversation.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
I think going back, I think this is so powerful
from your story of like just going back to the Gospels,
going back to the historical Jesus, going back to those
narrow narrative accounts, and just asking God, if you're real,
you know, Jesus, if you're real, would you reveal who
you really.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Are to me?
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Because there are people who get Jesus wrong, Like there
are people who have taken the Christ in scripture and
have misconstrued who he is. So asking asking him, reveal
who you really are to me? And I think there's
a personal encounter. And get around, get around people, get
around some people who, like I said to you, look
(25:11):
for the authentic Christ. If you get around a faith
group that doesn't talk about like that, say they're Christian,
but they never talk about Jesus.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
They never use the word yeah and be concerned, you know,
like we want to go back to.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Who is the historical Jesus and be on that process
of having a relationship with him, not rules.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
He's about the heart exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Absolutely. I think how many times as humans. I know
for myself, I've met somebody and I've totally prejudged them
or made up a story about who they are, and
then once I get to know them, I was like, wow,
that is not who I thought them to be and
they're amazing, or you know, sometimes the opposite, you know,
But in this case, I'm like, try on this story
that you don't know, Like, you haven't met the God
(25:56):
that you think you met. If you think that he's
mad at you, you're far gone that it's this you know, again,
you have to earn it. There's this shame driven whatever
upbringing you had. And also I want to invite you
into like you are allowed to choose who you want
to be today as an adult. Like it doesn't have
to be you know, you're always going to be influenced
by what you're influenced by. But like, again, what if
(26:17):
you started choosing what you want to be influenced by
in this conversation, and again, wipe the slate, claim give
yourself permission. You know this is coming from me. I
was not guided or led in a spirituality or even
a religious based conversation growing up. And it's something that
you can choose at any time, any age.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
That's right, Yeah, that's good, right where you're at.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Let's actually talk about these last two which and we
can kind of put them together because I think they
go hand in hand. But one is, you know, what
would my family think if I just started trying on
this god conversation now? So again, maybe you have you're Jewish,
you're Catholic, Hindu, atheist, whatever it is. But then also
like what would my friends think? So maybe you're used
to hanging around people and like the central part of
(26:59):
your connection is drinking or gossiping or you know, I
know with what a lot of my clients it's like,
you know, talking about our weight and you know, and
talking about that kind of things are shaming ourselves, right,
being frivolous with money, because that can be contagious, right,
having idols, right fill in the blank, chasing whatever, chasing relationships,
you know, cars, money, whatever, you know, So when your
(27:22):
influence is not really aligned with the direction that you're
going in, and the belief or the lie is like,
oh my gosh, what would my family think. They're gonna
they're gonna judge me. They're not going to approve what
my friends think. They're gonna judge me. They're not going
to approve. What would you say to that?
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Yeah, I mean I think we're we're wired and we're
created us Or why where we we want other people's
like we want other people's approval. Yeah, we can live
our lives based on the fear of man, which is
a prison to live in. And so we can go
around and thinking, man, I need I need everybody's approval.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
For everything that I that I.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Do, and that is like, it's just is a miserable
way to live. And so I think we can be grateful.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
For our families of origin.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
There are a lot of things we can be grateful
for and not necessarily be controlled by them, and there
is an influence of our life. But I think to
start at that place of gratitude and be grateful for
our families and be grateful for friends, but be in
that pursuit of truth and when we look at Jesus' life,
like his family like thought he was crazy.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
I mean, there was a moment.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Where where they were standing outside of the house and
they're trying to they're trying to talk him out and
fulfilling his mission and doing the thing. But then at
the end we see Mary when he's on the cross.
I remember, Luke wrote the Gospel of Luke, and one
of his primary sources, you know, for the story of Jesus'
life was Mary, and James was one of his brothers
(28:50):
that didn't believe. In Paulses, this is one of the
evidences of the resurrection is because James, who was this
brother of Jesus who thought he was crazy, who didn't believe,
but then saw him when he was re ed and
then becomes a leader al ultimately is killed as as
one of the church leaders in Jerusalem, and he found
Jesus after the resurrector, after he saw Jesus raisement day,
(29:11):
He's like, he's worth giving. He's not just my brother Jesus,
He's can you imagine having a brother wouldn't be the Messiah, right,
you know, But like I mean, I know what feeling
compared to my brother you know, and my sister.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
Like having a brother that's perfect, you know.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
And and James thought he was crazy is when Jesus was.
And then he sees the resurre to Christ and he's like,
now he was who he says he was.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
He is who he says he is, and then he
lays his life down for it.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
And so you look at this, you look at the
story like Jesus knew what it was like Hebrews talks
about he has known every like he's known every struggle.
He can empathize with us in our weakness, like we
have this high priest who his gone, but he to
use that phrase like this, we have one who has
gone before us, and he lived life perfectly.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
He's endured. He knows what it's like be rejected by family.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
And you have fulfill the call that he's None of
us can fulfill the call that God has for us,
or the mission or the purpose that he has for
us in life. And have you know our earthly parents'
approval or have our friends approve us? All that that's
(30:21):
a very that's a very small life.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
There were people who didn't.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Want us to move up to Nashville to pastor with
this ship. We just knew it was what God was
calling us to call us to do. And so I
think at some point you have to make a decision.
Am I going to live to please people? Or am
I going to live to please God? And whatever whatever
that means. And Jesus said this way, He say, if
anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and
(30:48):
take up his cross and follow me. And so that deny,
deny self, take up a cross. There is a suffering,
there is sacrifice, yes, but that's he says. If you,
if you when you lose your life, that's when you
really find it, like when you surrender, just like we
talked about last surrendered them with open hand.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
That's what.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
And it's it's hard, it is, it is hard, but
it's Remember when I was over in, I was over
in talking with a man he was Muslim background and
he had come to faith in Jesus.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
I had a friend who said that he was a
Jewish friend.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
He said, the only way that that Jews and Muslims
come together is Jesus. Like that's it, it does the
only way like there was and it was in you know,
it was in past Anian territory when I met this.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Jesus or full of Jesus.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
Yeah, he cut together.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
But this man was telling me, you know, I was
over in Palastaian territory and he this man was and
it was he was in hiding and he was like
his parents and put out a hit on his life
because he had found Jesus.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
And it became he went.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
On Facebook, and he went on Facebook and he looked
for a Christian on Facebook found a woman in Michigan
who had a Christian under He started a conversation with
her and ends up coming to coming to faith. And
he was in hiding when I met him, and I
was just like, man, what it cost him? Like what
it cousted him to put faith in Jesus.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
But when I when I would look at him and
I could look in.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
His eyes, I still I kept on to he had
some there's some tea, and there was some sage in
the in the tea, and I kept it was some
kind of I kept.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
I don't have no idea what.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
I kept it as a memory of that conversation because
I'm like, here's a man who knows what it is
to to sacrifice, to lay down for what matters most.
But you could see in his eye, he was he
was free, he was free of that fear of man,
and truly found himself in that and uh, and so
I just think how how wild it is for us
(32:44):
to be sitting here right now talking about that man
in that conversation, but just going there's a there was
a freedom that comes, a freedom from the fear of man,
which for so many people controls him their entire life absolutely.
But it's through that surrender that we truly foore lots.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
And you know, when your identity is rooted in the
opinions of other people, or your perception of what other
people think, or you know, even the airput's authority in
your life, whatever your authority is, and you know when
you have when you give so much weight to that authority,
it by default your certainty and who you are is
going to be kind of, you know, frail or weakened.
(33:21):
And but what I've discovered is like as your certainty
gets filled in and as you create more authority in
the knowingness of who you are, it's not that other
people's opinions don't matter. They'll always matter, but they don't
make a difference in how you choose to show up.
And I think that's part of what happens when you
get your identity rooted in something so much deeper and
so much bigger than And I'm not discounting the weight
(33:44):
of how we you know, we definitely care about what
our faily thinks and all of that, right, I mean,
I shared about it in one of the first episodes
about how I called my parents and I was like, listen,
I do care what you think. But I'm also I'm
a Christian, you know, and I'm Jewish, you know. And
it took me a while. So I think part of
it is like giving yourself that space to keep it
(34:05):
sacred until you know what it is, and then share,
but again, build that certainty, build your own sense of
authority and who you are and the knowingness, and it's
not going to be so scary, that's right. Yeah, yeah, awesome,
Well there. I mean, there are so many beliefs and
lies that we could go through and maybe this will
become a theories, but thank you so much for sharing
just anything in terms of this idea of you know,
(34:28):
meeting people in their current beliefs of like I can't
have a relationship with God, or maybe it's the worldly
views or the unbiblical beliefs keeping them from having this
relationship with God and carrying around this toxic shame. Obviously,
we shared new truths and new beliefs, and obviously our
invitation is just to try this on and try on
this new possibility, but just to kind of put a
wrapper on it. What would you want to leave everybody watter?
Speaker 4 (34:52):
I'll just tell you what I do.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
I've got this shortcut on my keyboard on my computer,
a journally never noted every day, and I ten D
D C and I don't know why, but when I
push in ten d C, it's ten declarative statements that
just pop up. And I've written out these statements that
tell me you know who I am. And I need
(35:15):
those reminders every single day. And so I don't do
it every single day. I do it when I need
that reorientation, when I need that reminder. I do it
a lot of days because I need that a lot
of days. So I don't think, wherever we're at on
the journey, we need that reminder, that recalibration for the soul.
So some mine are like, you know, I'm a follower
(35:36):
of Jesus, just I'm a man of integrity.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
I love my wife.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
I'll exhaust myself, you know, to love her, serve her,
care for her, remind myself I'm a father who loves
my children. I want to lead them to truth and
to wisdom and lead by grace, you know. Yeah, I
write these down or just this a shortcut so where,
but I just read through them. And so I think
(36:01):
so many of us we have this this background noise
telling us a different story. And I think it's super
helpful to go ahead and write write out who you
are and who God has called you to be, who
He's made you to be, so that you can return
to that place you know, every single day. The best
way to combat lies is with truth, and so I
(36:22):
think can be intentional with the truth. Write out those
ten declarative statements, write out the truth so that we
can be transformed, so that we'd be mad nude by
the renewing of our mind.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Yeah, I know that for me. One of the prayers
I prayed when I first started just kind of unpeeling
bout these lies, and I wrote it down, Actually is God,
I don't know you, but I want to know you,
and I'm here, was the first thing I kept refeeding
that over and over again. But it was because part
of it too is like just acknowledging that we have
these lies or these untruths, and now it's like, okay,
show me what to believe. It's almost like this open
(36:53):
ended dot dot dot conversation, right, So I know, I
was just always like, you know, give me the eyes
to see what I'm not seeing, and give me the
wisdom to understand what I'm not understanding, and give me
faith to believe what I'm not yet believing, because again
the faith thing was a big step for me. And
then show me who I really am, like not who
I'm trying to hustle to be. Show me how you
(37:15):
see me, and give me new visions of who I
am and who I can continue to grow into and
plant new seeds in my heart because for me, when
I recognizing the untruths or the lies was step one,
but coming up with new truths it took some time,
and so that was part of the prey. Like the
type of prayers I would ask is just like God,
I'm not sure what my new beliefs are yet, but
(37:36):
like I feel like you'll help, You'll show them to me,
So just keep you know, working on me and just
keep showing up, you know. So that's also like an
interim step if you're not sure, like because I know
the declarative statements that you have. I was listening to them,
and I'm like, I think I want to put some
of those in my vowels or have my Charles put
them in his vowels, you know, No, just kidding, But
that being said, it's like, to get to those declarative statements,
(37:56):
I can only imagine how much heart soul went into
that for you, the noness of who you are, you know,
And so that's the kind of thing. Or if you're
listening to this and you're like I want those, like
just pray for them. He'll reveal Yeah, it's good.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Yeah, I think, pray for him. And then I think
that's one of the gifts of scripture. He's like, we
don't have to wonder what God thinks. Yeah, He's already revealed.
Like and so I think to go to go to
scripture and just even open up it, go would you
reveal to me who you are? Would you reveal to
me who I am? And just take note and take notes?
(38:29):
It's good?
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Oh so good? Well, thank you so much for being here.
Just set in the tone you guys are going to
be hearing more from Kevin and his amazing wife Free.
Thank you so much for being here, and we'll sign
up for now good bye. We will be back with
more What's God Got to Do with It? But in
the meantime, I would love to hear from you, so
(38:51):
just tell me where you are in your own story
or maybe what questions you have. You know, where do
you feel like you need more clarity or wisdom or
direction in your own journey. I definitely want to hear
from you, so head on over to What's God Got
to Do with It? Dot com and.
Speaker 5 (39:08):
Scroll down to the forum to share your thoughts, questions,
or feedback instantly.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
That's What's God Got to Do with It? Dot com?
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Speaker 5 (39:17):
And want to hear more, follow like and subscribe wherever
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Speaker 2 (39:24):
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Speaker 2 (39:32):
It really means so much. What's God Got to Do
With It?
Speaker 5 (39:36):
Is an iHeartRadio podcast on the Amy Brown Podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
It's written and hosted by me Leanne Ellington
Speaker 5 (39:43):
Executive produced by Elizabeth Fozzio, post production and editing by
Houston Tilley, and original music written by Cheryl Stark and
produced by Adam Stark
If you want to go on a journey.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
If you're skeptical, don't worry.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Not here to preach, want to keep it clean and
talk to me and recad where faith needs, stops nature
and get in touch with your creator with a bacon,
love and jo She even speaks Hebrew.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
What's that? As well? Sation? You should talking transformation?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
What's done?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Got to do?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
All right, we are back and I'm back with my
good friend Kevin Queen. Hello, Kevin, welcome back.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Good to be back.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Thanks for having that on.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yes, well, last episode was a powerhouse and I think,
you know, one of the things that's really helpful and
was helpful for me is, you know, meeting myself in
my doubt, right, because when we talk about this idea
of believing in what you can't yet see or smell
or taste or touch, you know, that's part of what
faith is. And you know, sometimes we have to meet
ourselves in our doubt to bring ourselves over to a
(01:13):
new sense of certainty or really dipping our toes into
the next level of what we want to try on.
So one of the things the big things that kept
coming up for me were and I talk about this
in the work that I do with with my clients
is we have these beliefs, you know, and it's really
just thoughts that we think over and over again, and
then they become beliefs. They become a download of what
(01:35):
we perceive to be true about ourselves. And then we
live in these beliefs and we think that they're true
or we think that they're real because they feel real,
and then they become part of our identity. They become
part of our self image, and they turn into those
I am statements like Oh I am this way or
this is just what I do, this is just who
I am. And I think some of the beliefs that
I had to really just come to head with and
(01:58):
really just unvail also to speak so I could reveal
them and not have them really kind of sabotage what
I was thinking and doing and saying needed to be
brought to light for me to even see that they
were kind of keeping me far from God and keeping
me from thinking that I was worthy of having this
relationship with God. So some of the ones that came
up for me, some of the ones that my clients
(02:19):
have shared with me have come up for them when
they're entering into the spiritual conversation, and I'd love to
just get your take on them, hear what you say here,
what scripture says, because I think part of it too
is it's easy for us to recognize when something's not
true or that it can't be true, But then what
is the new truth? What actually resonates with us? You know,
And it's a big departure to be like, oh, I'm
(02:41):
so broken, I'm awful to know I'm so lovable. It's
not a jump like that. It can't be. We've got
to meet ourselves in our doubt. So before we dive in,
i'd love to hear, like, just what are your thoughts
about the beliefs that come up for us and that
we download and walk around with, and just kind of
share your take on that.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Yeah, I think that so much of our battlefield is
in our mind right. And there's a movie called The
Usual Suspects, And at the end of Usual Suspects, it's
starting with one of the greatest tricks that the that
Satan never used was commencing people that he doesn't exist,
you know. But I think one of the one of
(03:17):
the evidences of Gosh of the way that the enemy
that Satan works. And Jesus said, you know, he said,
Satan is like a like a lion who prowls around
looking for who he would devour. He said, I've come,
I've come. She would have abundant life.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
He said. The enemy comes to steal, kill, and destroy.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
And one of the ways that he steals our joy,
and that he he kills our hope, and that he
destroys like life to the full are with these what
I would call like defeatist beliefs, you know, and these
these which truly are lies. He's the father of lies.
That's another way that Jesus talks about him.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
And and he's he's.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Counterfeiter, you know, and so like really they call him
the father.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
You're a father of things you create.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
The only thing that say never created was lies and
so so many of us, and it's so easy to
get entangled and lies that have been informed maybe from
our for our past and maybe aren't part of that truth.
So what I'd love to do, I mean, is we
kind of talk, maybe talk through some of those lies
or some of those thoughts, and how do we replace
those lies with truth? And maybe the way we get
(04:29):
to some truth. You said something In the last episode,
you talked about putting on a new story, and so
what if we put on some new stories and look
at some stories of how Jesus interacted with people in
the Gospels. And what I hope people understand is that
God is not a favorite person's all right, So he
loves everybody who are all. We've all been created in
(04:51):
the image of God. He loves everybody the same, and
it's his will that all, it's his desire that all
would come to know him. And so maybe we can
do is see ourselves as of these people in the
Gospels and to see the way the disciples were Like Jesus,
if you show us, the Father will believe, and He's like,
if you've seen me, you've seen the Father. In other words,
if you want to know what God looks like, look
at me. And so let's find truth like Jesus and
(05:14):
I'm the way the truth in life.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Let's find truth by looking at.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Jesus and the way that he treats people, you know,
and the way that he interacts with people who maybe
would have believed some of these lies.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
That's cold.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
So I think that's a beautiful framework. So let's just
dive right in you know one, this is a big one.
But you know, the first belief or lie that comes
up and keeps people far from God or keeps them
from having a relationship is I'm too broken or I'm
too far gone. Yeah, what do you say about that one?
Speaker 4 (05:42):
You know?
Speaker 3 (05:42):
I think that for me that resonates for when I
was arrested at sixteen, like being in the back of
a police car, and I think about like, in that moment,
I'm like, man, I had lived this double life for
so long, but there was the moment where I.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Was like, Okay, am I going to follow Jesus? Or
am I going to go ride in the back of.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Police cars cycle in the future?
Speaker 4 (06:02):
But this this the.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Lie in that moment was I'm too far gone, like
that I can't come back from this moment, that this
is going to be my history, you know, forever. And
I think we've probably all had moments like that where
a lie like that comes in. I think about this
one guy. His name was Legion, and he lived on
the other side of the Sea of Galilee, which is
like a region called the Decapitalists. And it said that
(06:24):
he lived in the tombs and he had chains that
had been broken and he cut himself with rocks. So
here's this guy who is just tormented, either from things
that have happened to him or things has past. Jesus
takes the disciples and they go on a boat ride
to the de capitalist to the other side. They get
over there and it says, this man runs at Jesus.
So think about it, like you're one of the Talmudim.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
You wanted the disciples.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
You're like, this is it, Like this is how the
Messiah goes down like some crazy and this said the
man was naked, some crazy naked man running at the Messiah.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Like to take it. He's got that he's living among
the tombs.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
It's like this man is too far gone in their perspective.
Jesus has a conversation. He comes to me, falls at Jesus' feet.
Jesus heals him. Next thing we know, the man is
like dressed and in his right mind. The talentspeople are
coming out, going what has happened. The man pleads with
Jesus and he's like, let me go with you, and
Jesus said, no.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Go home, into your story.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
I go tell your family. He sends him back to
his family. I love that story, because if anybody was
too far gone, it was this man who people knew
his legions, you know, this man who was living among
the tombs, like and Jesus goes to the I believe
Jesus went to the other side of the Sea of Galilee,
the lake, right, They went to the other side of
the lake for this one man, just so that we
(07:38):
would have a picture to go nobody's too far gone,
you know. And that's how he meets us in that
place if we just come to him, that he can
bring us freedom, and he can reveal to us who
we truly are, and then he sends us back, you know,
back into life to be to live out that new
identity in him.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
So absolutely, And I remember when I first started again
learning about this guy called Jesus, you know, I would
hear him like, yeah, he hung out with murderers and adults,
ers and you know, thieves and all these things. And
it's not that he was condoning it, right, So I
think part of this idea of healing really and and
(08:19):
coming home to yourself and going home is really acknowledging Hey,
yes I have shame, but this isn't who I want
to be any longer and really renewing and committing to
that transformation. It's not this like, oh I have Jesus,
it's a get out of jail free card to just
keep sinning and keep shaming and you know, keep doing
the thing that's causing shame. There's obviously an element of
(08:40):
you know, restoration and renewal, but don't disqualify yourself from
being being worthy of that because of your shath.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
And maybe what we do is draw a distinction between
guilt and shame. So guilt says I've done a bad thing,
you know, Shame says I am a bad person. And yeah,
that's the toxic shame piece. And so I think, you know,
we talked about like the way Satan works.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Here's one of.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
The things that just made that makes me like when
I think back about like temptation, So temptation, we might
be tempted to do a certain thing, like let's say,
the temptation to lie. Did I tell the truth? And
so we get in a situation, maybe you get in
a situation at work and may do I tell the
truth or do I life lie get out of it?
And so we were like, nah, I don't need a lie.
(09:27):
But then we come, we just tell the lie. Then
the temptation before is, hey, if you tell this lie,
nobody's going to know. Everything's going to be easier. You're
going to get through this, not a big deal. But
then the moment you tell the lie and then the
shame comes in, You're a liar, you're a loser.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
Everybody's going to know.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
The way that things shift in that moment. For me,
that's more of an apologetic or an understanding of like
that evil and that satan and that lies and temptation
like is really goes back to this, there is this
foreset play to pull us away from who we're created
to be, you know. And so the way that lies work,
(10:12):
that shame that comes after that moment that says.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
You're a bad person.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
At first it was just do a thing, and then
it became a part of well, this is part of
your identity. And I'm just like, that's just the way
that that satan works. It's evidence of that the Father
of lies.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Absolutely, what you did is not who you are, and
where you are is not who you are, and your
circumstances are not who you are. And I think we
confuse the two and we take what we did, and
we identify as the thing, and that's what turns into
toxic shame. And when it doesn't get acknowledged and shine
a light on, and then of course the secrecy that
usually comes alongside shame, it just festers and then builds
(10:48):
on layer on top of layer. So yeah, that's such
an important distinction. And it's interesting. The second belief or
lie that I was going to talk about is that
my shame is different or worse than others. So I
think we talked about this little bit last time where
we kind of categorize our shame, you know, and again
just talking about you know, Jesus hung out with not condoting,
but you know, murders, adulters, you know, all the things
(11:10):
and I you know, all the things that you hear
about that come up in in your church community, whether
you know you have men that are addicted to plural
or set or women too. I'm sure you know. I know,
I deal with a lot of women that have you know,
they feel addicted to sugar and food, whether it is
you know, adultery, drugs, crime, whatever it is. You know,
And there's testimony after testimony of testimony of you know,
(11:32):
becoming a new creation but what do you say about
if somebody has a belief of like no, you don't understand,
like that shame is fine, Like that can be forgiven
about my shame? No, what do you say about if
(11:52):
somebody has a belief of like no, you don't understand,
like that shame is fine, Like that can be forgiven
about my shame?
Speaker 3 (11:58):
No. So I think that that the enemy's strategy are
secrets and isolation. You know, And then you probably heard
to said like, we're only as sick as our secrets.
So in the scriptures it talks about confess your sin
to one another and you'll be healed. You probably heard
have said like that, we're only as sick as our secrets.
And if we confess our sins, to want to know,
(12:18):
like there's healing, that healing that takes place. So I
just encourage like if maybe there's an intrusive thought or
maybe there's a struggle, be able to say that to
somebody else, because then we realized, we realize I'm not
alone and there are other people with us. Well, you know,
I think about like talking about story and narrative and
putting a story on There was a time where Jesus
the pharisees of the religious leaders brought a woman who
(12:40):
was caught in adultery to Jesus and they wanted to
shame her. Actually they wanted to they want to kill
her because you know, according to the law that was
what adultery.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Would lead to death.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Jesus is sitting there. They bring this woman up, and
it's interesting. He starts drawing in the sand, and we
don't know what he was drawing, but he starts drawing
in the sand, and then he tells him. He says, hey,
let whichever one of you is without sin, let them
cast the first stone. Now, what happens next is that
all of the religious leaders they start dropping those stones
(13:15):
and then they leave and it's the woman who's standing
there with Jesus. Jesus, where are your accusers? He said, well,
I don't condemn you either. He said, I'll go and
send no more.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
And he is the only one who was without sin.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
But he didn't pick up a stone, because he would
take he would become the sacrifice for our sin, for
her sin, for all of us. I think the reason
that he drew in the sand is to draw the
attention off of her nakedness, off of what she would
have fell in that moment with shame to draw the
(13:54):
attention off of her, and to draw the attention because
when somebody's writing in the sand, everybody wils to know
what are they writing. And maybe he wrote the names
of people who in that in that group, who were
committed the same sin. Right, But you just see the
beauty of Jesus as a rabbi and his you know,
his willingness to remove shame, to take shame off of
(14:15):
other people, and then to be able to set.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Her free and to go. I don't condemn you either,
just go go and live.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
And I think every time we fail, we can come
to him.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
And because he's not.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
A favorite person's, he loves us all the same.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
He loves us like he.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Does that woman. We bring our shame to him and
he loves the shame off of us.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Wow, he loves the shame off of us. Gosh, that's
so powerful. And I think it also brings up the
point that it's so important to find people that you
feel safe sharing with, because you know that's part of it.
It's like people that have so much toxic shame, they
don't want to share because they don't feel safe, because
they feel like they're being judged. And one of the reasons,
(14:57):
you know, over the years in the work that I do,
I've left with my own shame of like here's mine, right,
it because it enables people to be safe to share
their own and know that they're not going to be judged.
And I think that you know, different there's different elements
for different people that they need to feel that safety.
But I think part of it is for me, at least,
(15:17):
it was when I met people that knew Jesus and
knew the love of Jesus. It's almost like my shame
and my sin didn't matter because the love was there
and the acceptance was there, and it almost like tore
down the walls of secrecy because there was this element
of safety. And so I think, you know, surrounding yourself,
if I mean we all haven't too. We know those
(15:38):
people in our lives were like, we're not safe to
be who we really are. They're going to judge us, right,
And that's okay. You don't have to go audit all
of your friends, but you know who people are, and
know who people are and in your life and really seek
out that safety for yourself, psychological safety almost to be
able to be who you are and get that help,
because the first step to acknowledging that you have a
(16:00):
problem is first and foremost acknowledging yourself, but feeling able
to to voice it and get that support and be
heard and have it received.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Yeah, I think all of us have a sense of intuition,
with spidey sense, right, I mean, we we can tell
when somebody's safer, when they're not, and if that's been damaged,
either because of trauma or because of what's happened in
the past. I'm like, you can start with a counselor,
but the moment then you share it is somebody is
no longer a secret, you know. And so I think,
I think go to a professional. I think you will
(16:28):
start when we talk about you know, pastor pastors. By
by law, confidentiality is required. But I'm saying if if
you don't feel there, if you don't feel safe there,
go to a counselor. I think looking at friends, I mean,
I think it's like trusting them with a little bit
at a time, you know.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
And I think sure learning over time who.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
You can trust and that in those in those deeper ways,
it just really is really is a gift.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
It has our sorrows and it doubles our joys. You know,
have a friend like.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
That, absolutely absolutely. So coming to the next belief, which
or lie we should say, is I've been this way
for far too long. So it's another way of saying
like I'm far too gone. But like again, when we
look at historically who we've been and how we've shown up,
and we think like, no, you don't understand. I've been
this way my entire life. You're telling me that there
(17:17):
is hope. Yeah, what would you say to that?
Speaker 3 (17:20):
So when Jesus was on the cross, there were two
people that was one on his left when I was right, and.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
And he what was a murderer when was a thief?
Speaker 3 (17:27):
And he got to Jesus, He's like one of curses him,
and the other says.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Will you remember me? You know today?
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Will you?
Speaker 4 (17:35):
And so I'm like, Okay.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
That guy had been there, been that way his entire life,
and here he was coming to the end of his.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
Life and Jesus tells him, surely.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Today, like you'll be with him like the moment at
the end of his life like that, he's on his
deathbed and he puts his faith in his trust, and
Jesus brings him a word of peace and just like
I'm gonna, I'm gonna take.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Care of you.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
So I'm like, I don't know of another picture in
scripture if somebody weird your entire life, and even if
it is to that moment, to know that that coming home.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
So I would say, at any point we come.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
And I think, you know, when I think of people
that I know in my life, I.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
Think about you.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
My grandfather who was eighty six years old, and he
lived a certain kind of way, and it was that
we still have the chair that he was sitting in.
I mean, he passed away years ago, but we still
held onto the chair where he put his faith in
trust and he finally knew forgiveness and and some to
receive forgiveness from God. And so you received that forgiveness
(18:34):
from God in that chair, and I think at that
moment he was able to forgive himself, you know. And
that so that chair is a picture that no matter
how long you've been in that place, that transformation is
always possible. And I saw it in his life so absolutely.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
And you know what this gave time for me too,
is like this idea of you know, for my own
versions of I've been this way for far too long.
One thing that I can look back and say, well,
I never addressed it. It was a spiritual struggle, you know.
So it's like, well, what are you what have you done?
I know a lot of women I talked to They're like, oh,
I've done therapy, I've done this and that, and like, well,
have you ever in the case of you know, their
(19:10):
relationship with food and their bodies, have you ever taken
like a brain based approach? And then if people do
have a spiritual life, I'm like, have you ever taken
a spiritual approach to this? So part of it too
is like, you know, what have you been doing to
address you know, the thing that you've been air quotes
doing for as long as you can remember? And have
you ever given it over to God and surrendered it
and you know, released, relinquished these chains of control which
(19:32):
are just they're such a facade in a way, you know.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
And I think that's one of the lies. One of
the lies is that I knew for me in struggles
and things that I've had in my past, I knew
for me. And there was there was one struggle where
I thought I'll always remember the last time. And I
was like, I'll know that I have breakthrough when I
can't remember the last time.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
And for that.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Particular struggle, dude, like I can't remember the last time. Yeah,
and so I have evidence in my life that, you know,
the lie was, I'll always be able to remember if
I can't now. So I think that's and if that
can happen with me, like that can happen with anybody,
you know. And uh, and so I think getting around
some other people who have experienced the breakthrough in the
(20:15):
transfer and then there's hope, and then having conversation about like, well,
how how has that been true?
Speaker 4 (20:22):
You know for you? How has that?
Speaker 3 (20:23):
I think that's one of the gifts of AA. Yeah,
getting in a community with some people, having a conversation
about our vulnerability in that place of surrender where we're
not in surrender by ourselves, we're in community with others.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, and you're almost in borrowing other people's faith and
borrowing other people's beliefs, you know, until you build your own,
it's right, you know. So I love that. Okay, this
is a big one. I'm sure the God is mad
(20:56):
at me.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Lie.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
You know, they feel like maybe they disappointed him again,
there's that toxic shame. God is bad at me. Talk
to us about that, lie.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Yeah, I think if if your God is mad at you,
you might have.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
It awn on Amen, Like, can you say more about that?
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (21:12):
I mean I think where Jesus will go back when
he says, if you've.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Seen me, you seen the Father.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
The only time we really see Jesus mad, well, they
were a couple of times, but they were It was
like in the temple where he's flipping over tables. And
the reason that he did that is because the religious
leaders they had well, I mean they're people who had
set up these these tables to try to try to
take advantage of gentiles who were trying to get in
(21:38):
and offer their sacrifice. And so they were like up
charging them and they were they were just trying to
take them in, and so they had turned the court
of gentiles, the place where those gentiles would worship, into
a marketplace. And so Jesus turns over those tables and
he's like, my father's house is a house of prayer,
because that would have been the place where where the
gentiles would have come in and been able to pray.
(22:00):
And I think that's that's what makes Jesus mad is
when people create other barriers for other people to encounter
the heart of God. You know, Yeah, so does Jesus
get mad? Yeah, but it's not with people because they
(22:20):
admit their own brokenness and.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
Because of their sin and because there.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
And when that mad thing, it was because there were barriers.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
And so I think what we see.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
In Jesus, he's tearing down every barrier. And his heart
is a heart of unconditional love for people to draw near.
And so if you feel like God is mad, you know,
at you, so you might have their own one, you know,
because his heart is full of love, and in pursuit.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
He just wants you to come home.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
It's just kind. He wants you to come home unto him.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
And I think the enemy wants us to leave that
so that we'll stay far off. And so we think, well,
I got to work and like act a certain way
so that then God likes you. He likes you right
now and he's in a really good mood toward you.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
But we just we just asked him.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
He said, he said a really really good goodnod. And
that's what it means to be loved unconditionally. But so
many of us have never known, you know, love like that.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Absolutely. Yeah, And that's where I would say, try on
a new story, like you see, you've got the wrong God.
It's like, yeah, that's something God.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
I know.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
The God Ido would just be so happy that you're
showing up now, like I said, the God that I do.
He didn't care that it was a rabbi or a pastor.
It happened to be a pastor. It didn't care that
it was a church or temple. It happened to be
a church. He was just glad that at thirty five
years old, now it was five years ago. I just said, yes,
I want to know you.
Speaker 4 (23:46):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
And if he got mad in the scriptures, it was
because people were putting up barriers so that people could
know that he's not mad, right really, like I mean,
he was wanting people to know that so much that
he was tearing those states and so that kind of
religion that would cause people to think that like that's
the thing that gree is or.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Absolutely, and that's actually a perfect segue into the next
liear belief is you know a lot of people they
grew up in a certain type of you know, religion,
or you know, the good, bad, right, wrong, should shouldn't
kind of mentality, the shame driven kind of mentality. So
this idea of like, no, you know, the whole God conversation,
like I don't really want that. I grew up around it,
and I saw what it did to my mom or
(24:26):
my dad, and I just I don't like it. So
what would you say to that? I might even just
be a continuation of that last conversation.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
I think going back, I think this is so powerful
from your story of like just going back to the Gospels,
going back to the historical Jesus, going back to those
narrow narrative accounts, and just asking God, if you're real,
you know, Jesus, if you're real, would you reveal who
you really.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Are to me?
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Because there are people who get Jesus wrong, Like there
are people who have taken the Christ in scripture and
have misconstrued who he is. So asking asking him, reveal
who you really are to me? And I think there's
a personal encounter. And get around, get around people, get
around some people who, like I said to you, look
(25:11):
for the authentic Christ. If you get around a faith
group that doesn't talk about like that, say they're Christian,
but they never talk about Jesus.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
They never use the word yeah and be concerned, you know,
like we want to go back to.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Who is the historical Jesus and be on that process
of having a relationship with him, not rules.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
He's about the heart exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Absolutely. I think how many times as humans. I know
for myself, I've met somebody and I've totally prejudged them
or made up a story about who they are, and
then once I get to know them, I was like, wow,
that is not who I thought them to be and
they're amazing, or you know, sometimes the opposite, you know,
But in this case, I'm like, try on this story
that you don't know, Like, you haven't met the God
(25:56):
that you think you met. If you think that he's
mad at you, you're far gone that it's this you know, again,
you have to earn it. There's this shame driven whatever
upbringing you had. And also I want to invite you
into like you are allowed to choose who you want
to be today as an adult. Like it doesn't have
to be you know, you're always going to be influenced
by what you're influenced by. But like, again, what if
(26:17):
you started choosing what you want to be influenced by
in this conversation, and again, wipe the slate, claim give
yourself permission. You know this is coming from me. I
was not guided or led in a spirituality or even
a religious based conversation growing up. And it's something that
you can choose at any time, any age.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
That's right, Yeah, that's good, right where you're at.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Let's actually talk about these last two which and we
can kind of put them together because I think they
go hand in hand. But one is, you know, what
would my family think if I just started trying on
this god conversation now? So again, maybe you have you're Jewish,
you're Catholic, Hindu, atheist, whatever it is. But then also
like what would my friends think? So maybe you're used
to hanging around people and like the central part of
(26:59):
your connection is drinking or gossiping or you know, I
know with what a lot of my clients it's like,
you know, talking about our weight and you know, and
talking about that kind of things are shaming ourselves, right,
being frivolous with money, because that can be contagious, right,
having idols, right fill in the blank, chasing whatever, chasing relationships,
you know, cars, money, whatever, you know, So when your
(27:22):
influence is not really aligned with the direction that you're
going in, and the belief or the lie is like,
oh my gosh, what would my family think. They're gonna
they're gonna judge me. They're not going to approve what
my friends think. They're gonna judge me. They're not going
to approve. What would you say to that?
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Yeah, I mean I think we're we're wired and we're
created us Or why where we we want other people's
like we want other people's approval. Yeah, we can live
our lives based on the fear of man, which is
a prison to live in. And so we can go
around and thinking, man, I need I need everybody's approval.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
For everything that I that I.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Do, and that is like, it's just is a miserable
way to live. And so I think we can be grateful.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
For our families of origin.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
There are a lot of things we can be grateful
for and not necessarily be controlled by them, and there
is an influence of our life. But I think to
start at that place of gratitude and be grateful for
our families and be grateful for friends, but be in
that pursuit of truth and when we look at Jesus' life,
like his family like thought he was crazy.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
I mean, there was a moment.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Where where they were standing outside of the house and
they're trying to they're trying to talk him out and
fulfilling his mission and doing the thing. But then at
the end we see Mary when he's on the cross.
I remember, Luke wrote the Gospel of Luke, and one
of his primary sources, you know, for the story of Jesus'
life was Mary, and James was one of his brothers
(28:50):
that didn't believe. In Paulses, this is one of the
evidences of the resurrection is because James, who was this
brother of Jesus who thought he was crazy, who didn't believe,
but then saw him when he was re ed and
then becomes a leader al ultimately is killed as as
one of the church leaders in Jerusalem, and he found
Jesus after the resurrector, after he saw Jesus raisement day,
(29:11):
He's like, he's worth giving. He's not just my brother Jesus,
He's can you imagine having a brother wouldn't be the Messiah, right,
you know, But like I mean, I know what feeling
compared to my brother you know, and my sister.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
Like having a brother that's perfect, you know.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
And and James thought he was crazy is when Jesus was.
And then he sees the resurre to Christ and he's like,
now he was who he says he was.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
He is who he says he is, and then he
lays his life down for it.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
And so you look at this, you look at the
story like Jesus knew what it was like Hebrews talks
about he has known every like he's known every struggle.
He can empathize with us in our weakness, like we
have this high priest who his gone, but he to
use that phrase like this, we have one who has
gone before us, and he lived life perfectly.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
He's endured. He knows what it's like be rejected by family.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
And you have fulfill the call that he's None of
us can fulfill the call that God has for us,
or the mission or the purpose that he has for
us in life. And have you know our earthly parents'
approval or have our friends approve us? All that that's
(30:21):
a very that's a very small life.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
There were people who didn't.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Want us to move up to Nashville to pastor with
this ship. We just knew it was what God was
calling us to call us to do. And so I
think at some point you have to make a decision.
Am I going to live to please people? Or am
I going to live to please God? And whatever whatever
that means. And Jesus said this way, He say, if
anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and
(30:48):
take up his cross and follow me. And so that deny,
deny self, take up a cross. There is a suffering,
there is sacrifice, yes, but that's he says. If you,
if you when you lose your life, that's when you
really find it, like when you surrender, just like we
talked about last surrendered them with open hand.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
That's what.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
And it's it's hard, it is, it is hard, but
it's Remember when I was over in, I was over
in talking with a man he was Muslim background and
he had come to faith in Jesus.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
I had a friend who said that he was a
Jewish friend.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
He said, the only way that that Jews and Muslims
come together is Jesus. Like that's it, it does the
only way like there was and it was in you know,
it was in past Anian territory when I met this.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Jesus or full of Jesus.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
Yeah, he cut together.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
But this man was telling me, you know, I was
over in Palastaian territory and he this man was and
it was he was in hiding and he was like
his parents and put out a hit on his life
because he had found Jesus.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
And it became he went.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
On Facebook, and he went on Facebook and he looked
for a Christian on Facebook found a woman in Michigan
who had a Christian under He started a conversation with
her and ends up coming to coming to faith. And
he was in hiding when I met him, and I
was just like, man, what it cost him? Like what
it cousted him to put faith in Jesus.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
But when I when I would look at him and
I could look in.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
His eyes, I still I kept on to he had
some there's some tea, and there was some sage in
the in the tea, and I kept it was some
kind of I kept.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
I don't have no idea what.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
I kept it as a memory of that conversation because
I'm like, here's a man who knows what it is
to to sacrifice, to lay down for what matters most.
But you could see in his eye, he was he
was free, he was free of that fear of man,
and truly found himself in that and uh, and so
I just think how how wild it is for us
(32:44):
to be sitting here right now talking about that man
in that conversation, but just going there's a there was
a freedom that comes, a freedom from the fear of man,
which for so many people controls him their entire life absolutely.
But it's through that surrender that we truly foore lots.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
And you know, when your identity is rooted in the
opinions of other people, or your perception of what other
people think, or you know, even the airput's authority in
your life, whatever your authority is, and you know when
you have when you give so much weight to that authority,
it by default your certainty and who you are is
going to be kind of, you know, frail or weakened.
(33:21):
And but what I've discovered is like as your certainty
gets filled in and as you create more authority in
the knowingness of who you are, it's not that other
people's opinions don't matter. They'll always matter, but they don't
make a difference in how you choose to show up.
And I think that's part of what happens when you
get your identity rooted in something so much deeper and
so much bigger than And I'm not discounting the weight
(33:44):
of how we you know, we definitely care about what
our faily thinks and all of that, right, I mean,
I shared about it in one of the first episodes
about how I called my parents and I was like, listen,
I do care what you think. But I'm also I'm
a Christian, you know, and I'm Jewish, you know. And
it took me a while. So I think part of
it is like giving yourself that space to keep it
(34:05):
sacred until you know what it is, and then share,
but again, build that certainty, build your own sense of
authority and who you are and the knowingness, and it's
not going to be so scary, that's right. Yeah, yeah, awesome,
Well there. I mean, there are so many beliefs and
lies that we could go through and maybe this will
become a theories, but thank you so much for sharing
just anything in terms of this idea of you know,
(34:28):
meeting people in their current beliefs of like I can't
have a relationship with God, or maybe it's the worldly
views or the unbiblical beliefs keeping them from having this
relationship with God and carrying around this toxic shame. Obviously,
we shared new truths and new beliefs, and obviously our
invitation is just to try this on and try on
this new possibility, but just to kind of put a
wrapper on it. What would you want to leave everybody watter?
Speaker 4 (34:52):
I'll just tell you what I do.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
I've got this shortcut on my keyboard on my computer,
a journally never noted every day, and I ten D
D C and I don't know why, but when I
push in ten d C, it's ten declarative statements that
just pop up. And I've written out these statements that
tell me you know who I am. And I need
(35:15):
those reminders every single day. And so I don't do
it every single day. I do it when I need
that reorientation, when I need that reminder. I do it
a lot of days because I need that a lot
of days. So I don't think, wherever we're at on
the journey, we need that reminder, that recalibration for the soul.
So some mine are like, you know, I'm a follower
(35:36):
of Jesus, just I'm a man of integrity.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
I love my wife.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
I'll exhaust myself, you know, to love her, serve her,
care for her, remind myself I'm a father who loves
my children. I want to lead them to truth and
to wisdom and lead by grace, you know. Yeah, I
write these down or just this a shortcut so where,
but I just read through them. And so I think
(36:01):
so many of us we have this this background noise
telling us a different story. And I think it's super
helpful to go ahead and write write out who you
are and who God has called you to be, who
He's made you to be, so that you can return
to that place you know, every single day. The best
way to combat lies is with truth, and so I
(36:22):
think can be intentional with the truth. Write out those
ten declarative statements, write out the truth so that we
can be transformed, so that we'd be mad nude by
the renewing of our mind.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Yeah, I know that for me. One of the prayers
I prayed when I first started just kind of unpeeling
bout these lies, and I wrote it down, Actually is God,
I don't know you, but I want to know you,
and I'm here, was the first thing I kept refeeding
that over and over again. But it was because part
of it too is like just acknowledging that we have
these lies or these untruths, and now it's like, okay,
show me what to believe. It's almost like this open
(36:53):
ended dot dot dot conversation, right, So I know, I
was just always like, you know, give me the eyes
to see what I'm not seeing, and give me the
wisdom to understand what I'm not understanding, and give me
faith to believe what I'm not yet believing, because again
the faith thing was a big step for me. And
then show me who I really am, like not who
I'm trying to hustle to be. Show me how you
(37:15):
see me, and give me new visions of who I
am and who I can continue to grow into and
plant new seeds in my heart because for me, when
I recognizing the untruths or the lies was step one,
but coming up with new truths it took some time,
and so that was part of the prey. Like the
type of prayers I would ask is just like God,
I'm not sure what my new beliefs are yet, but
(37:36):
like I feel like you'll help, You'll show them to me,
So just keep you know, working on me and just
keep showing up, you know. So that's also like an
interim step if you're not sure, like because I know
the declarative statements that you have. I was listening to them,
and I'm like, I think I want to put some
of those in my vowels or have my Charles put
them in his vowels, you know, No, just kidding, But
that being said, it's like, to get to those declarative statements,
(37:56):
I can only imagine how much heart soul went into
that for you, the noness of who you are, you know,
And so that's the kind of thing. Or if you're
listening to this and you're like I want those, like
just pray for them. He'll reveal Yeah, it's good.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Yeah, I think, pray for him. And then I think
that's one of the gifts of scripture. He's like, we
don't have to wonder what God thinks. Yeah, He's already revealed.
Like and so I think to go to go to
scripture and just even open up it, go would you
reveal to me who you are? Would you reveal to
me who I am? And just take note and take notes?
(38:29):
It's good?
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Oh so good? Well, thank you so much for being here.
Just set in the tone you guys are going to
be hearing more from Kevin and his amazing wife Free.
Thank you so much for being here, and we'll sign
up for now good bye. We will be back with
more What's God Got to Do with It? But in
the meantime, I would love to hear from you, so
(38:51):
just tell me where you are in your own story
or maybe what questions you have. You know, where do
you feel like you need more clarity or wisdom or
direction in your own journey. I definitely want to hear
from you, so head on over to What's God Got
to Do with It? Dot com and.
Speaker 5 (39:08):
Scroll down to the forum to share your thoughts, questions,
or feedback instantly.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
That's What's God Got to Do with It? Dot com?
And if you like this podcast.
Speaker 5 (39:17):
And want to hear more, follow like and subscribe wherever
you listen to podcasts to get your weekly dose of.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
What's God Got to Do with It?
Speaker 5 (39:26):
New episodes drop every Tuesday, and while you're there, be
sure to rate and review to show your support.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
It really means so much. What's God Got to Do
With It?
Speaker 5 (39:36):
Is an iHeartRadio podcast on the Amy Brown Podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
It's written and hosted by me Leanne Ellington
Speaker 5 (39:43):
Executive produced by Elizabeth Fozzio, post production and editing by
Houston Tilley, and original music written by Cheryl Stark and
produced by Adam Stark
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
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