February 13, 2021 • 28 mins
Dale Borchiver, cofounder of @sweatsinthecity shares her story for the first time of how her eating disorder crept in on her, the difference between life during and after, PLUS why/how she agreed to get help.
We cover: tell tale signs you’re suffering (but may not know it), maintaining a positive relationship with all foods, and an inside look at how a picture on Instagram fails to tell a person’s story.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I won't lend my body out me out way everything
that I'm made do. Won't spend my life trying to change.
I'm learning a love who I am, I get I'm strong,
I feel free, I know who every part of me.
It's beautiful and I will always out way if you
(00:24):
feel it. With your hays in the air, she'll some
love to the MOOI at there say good day and
time did you and die out? Welcome back to Outweigh today.
Our guest is Dale Borsheverr. She is half of the
Instagram account and the blog Sweats in the City, and
we're here to talk to Dale about her intuitive eating
(00:46):
journey and all the things that kind of led her
to get help both internally and publicly to share that
story with her followers. So welcome Dale, So excited to
see you. Thank you both so much for having me.
I'm so excited to be on here. I know it's
in a little bit since you talked about this part
of your journey. It was very present on your Instagram
account as you were moving through it, which I thought
(01:08):
was very brave, especially a wellness blog where you're kind
of expected to kind of contribute to the noise in
some way. It takes bravery to say, okay, we need
to pull it back here. So you entered wellness blogging
and kind of found yourself in over your head when
it came to wellness trends. So how did the noise
(01:30):
of wellness infiltrate your mind in the beginning of your
career or maybe it was the middle of your career,
maybe not the exact beginning. Yeah, that's exactly right. You know,
when Elizabeth and I first started sweats in the City,
our main goal was to review studios and that was
my passion. I loved going to studios. I love the
community aspects of fujiq Fitness, and our account. The original
(01:51):
like pictures going way back, was just of the studio.
We weren't planning to be these influencer models, whatever you
like to call it. As we kind of gravitated towards
and then you know, we were starting to be asked
to do photo shoots and modeling clothing, and I think
there was a part of me that was wrongfully the way,
you know, my own insecurity, my own views of the world,
(02:14):
that I wasn't necessarily worthy of that position I had
in over my head. I'm like I don't have this
like perfect Instagram body with these rock hard abs, and like, yeah,
I always grew up like thin and I have a
lot of thin privileged but I just didn't feel like
I deserved to be in that position. Although I wasn't
a fitness trainer or anything. It was my own insecurities
(02:35):
that were holding me back. And you know, I was
comfortable wearing certain things on camera and I would generally
wear like a tea and leggings, and then I had
to wear crop tops and then I turned to bras
and like, it just stressed me out because I myself
didn't feel so comfortable, and I remember thinking, I was like, well,
you know what, instead of me trying to look inward
(02:56):
and be like a six pack of abs, that's not
my value, I decided I'm going to change how I
look until I get there and that will make me
feel better. So that's kind of where it started. And
there was a lot of things going on in my
life that made its spiral out of control, but there
was that insecurity inside me that definitely sparked from all this,
and I think it was just unleashing the beast, like
(03:19):
waiting for it to kind of come out Okay. So
I feel like we have a lot of listeners that
don't even realize that some of their behaviors are disordered,
because again, it's just so out there in society and
it's what we grow up seeing and viewing. And so
for you, yeah, you didn't look inward first. You were like, oh,
if I just go get this body that I quote
unquote need for Instagram, then everything will be fine and
(03:41):
I'll be happy. So I don't want to trigger anybody
with ideas of what you were doing, but I also
want you to share those ideas because it also might
make a lightbulb go off in some people's heads of like, oh,
I kind of do that. And this is not a
place where we want to call people out, and that's
not the point. But I think gets important that people
share their journey and when you had the wake up call,
(04:04):
because so many of us are just brainwashed. I was
for years. I didn't realize the disservice I was doing
to myself and my followers, because on your Instagram account
you have followers by not being aware of how disordered
my patterns were. Absolutely, I think that's a really great
question because I think I was kind of tricked, not tricked,
(04:25):
but I tricked myself into thinking I was being extremely
healthy and that visible body parts meant health, and in order,
once I got there, that meant that it would look
like I was extremely healthy and fit. So for me,
I was an extreme denial because I wasn't abusing any
pills or weighing myself. I was not even weighing myself.
I wasn't throwing up. It was just extreme restriction. And
(04:48):
at first what it started was I would say something
like orthorexia. I was scared to eat outside of my house.
I unfortunately took poor advice from other trainers who kind
of taught me would get there. I followed certain diets
that I were led to believe that were good for
my health that weren't. And for me, I think I'm
already a small person, so my body fights to be
(05:11):
at this set point weight, and in order for me
to exceed that set point weight, extreme restriction had to
be in place because it wasn't so easy for me
to just lose a few pounds, like you know, maybe
a few, but not much more than that. So what
went from being like started some health emales at home
and some swaps that I thought were good for me
(05:32):
turned into extreme fear of social situations, going out to
eat food that I didn't know what was inside the ingredients.
I wouldn't say calories, but I had an overall like
sense of what what things were higher calories. I honestly
don't even know what I was eating. But the truth
is many people had to approach me about it, and
(05:53):
at first I was so resistant. People were like, you
lost a lot of weight, and at first it was compliments,
and I think it's definitely triggered me to keep going
like wow, like clearly it's working and maybe I am
going to be this fitness professional that I've dreamed of
by people asking me what my method is. And then
it turned into okay, people are getting worried. I was
getting comments on social media, and then it turned into
(06:14):
like a full on intervention from my family that were
like you got to stop this or get off of
social media because this is not gonna end well if
you don't get help now. So that's kind of what
turned it around for me. And I was so resistant.
I mean I wasn't fully resistant. I listened to them,
but I was like, you don't get it, Like I
am so healthy I'm doing all the workouts the other
(06:34):
girls are doing. I just didn't see it. I was
so deep and I thought it was normal and it wasn't.
And I think that was just deep denial. And there's
kind of two angles of this way. I really wanted
to hear your story. And number one is because you
kind of transitioned very quickly from the regular person, if
you will, to wellness expert, and with that came a
(06:57):
very abrupt kind of learning of this is what you
do when you're healthy. You don't eat this, you eat this.
There's a substitute for just about everything. And it starts
off really, you know, exciting and positive and wow, this
taste just like my favorite Da dada, And before you
know it, you develop these fears of foods and you're
(07:18):
crutching onto these foods and you won't go out of
your house. And it's very easy to happen to anybody.
And I think that's kind of what I want, and
quickly it could happen very quickly, especially with the access
to these foods that we have. And number two is
because you are an influencer who you know. I'm sure
those pictures that you were posing in during that time
(07:38):
people thought you had it all figured out. And I
think it's just important when we look at anybody's photos
to know that every one of us is on a
journey of some kind, and it's important to just you know,
not mimic what somebody else is doing or even judge them,
but really, you know, figure our stuff out for ourselves.
So it sounds like your wake up call was your
(08:00):
family really stepping in, which is powerful when you're in
your mid twenties or so. Right. Yeah, absolutely, I think
it took that to really make me go seek help
because there was, you know, the comments. It's very easy
on social media to be like, oh, these are just haters,
and I completely agree haters do exist. But I knew
something was up, and I think I just wouldn't admit it.
(08:22):
And I think, like, as you said, portraying this idea
of having it all figured out is such a common
theme that we see, and it's it's crazy that a
lot of people who act like they haven't figured out
really are are struggling. So it it definitely did take
a strong wake up call. And even so, like I
didn't even realize it when my parents were like, we
(08:43):
just want you to talk to someone, we just want
you to go to a dietitian. Again, like I'm not
I don't have any credentials. I was never giving advice
to anyone that was not that's not what I'm certified in.
Our goal was to make a fun, boutique fitness account,
and I didn't want people to mimic me, but I
found the people were looking to me to you know,
what are you eating, what are you what supplements you're taking,
(09:05):
what shoes are you wearing? So it was kind of
became like an all encompassing thing. It wasn't just about
reviewing studios anymore. It was who are you? And how
can I become that? And that was what was so
much pressure for me of someone who would literally before this,
I was ordering pet tie and pizza and like, I
never worried about my weight. It was just not a thing.
(09:25):
And then all of a sudden, I felt that pressure.
So I want to do a little activity with you
for people, because I think a lot of times when
you're scrolling on Instagram, Yeah, you see this body or
that body, and you wonder what they're doing. And so
let's pretend we're talking about one of your pictures that
you were super proud of you finally got to where
you were Like again, on the inside, you weren't feeling
that great, but on the outside you're like, Yes, this
(09:47):
is what I've been working for. Now what if and
this is what I think would be amazing if this
was possible on social media. What if you see that
picture but then coming out of your head was a
bubble of what you were really feeling on the inside
at that moment because we all double tap and then
you know, comment, And when I say we, I mean
the collective. That's like still part of that narrative of
(10:09):
like what are you doing giving all the details? I
want your body, even though everybody's body is completely different.
But say someone is commenting like, oh my gosh, she
looks so great. I want to know all your details.
But like what if that person was able to double
tap your photo and then get a look inside your
brain at that very moment, Like what what are some
adjectives to describe what you were feeling like inside? Yeah?
(10:31):
I love that question. I think that just my world
was so small. I would wake up, I think about food,
I think about what I'm going to eat, how I'm
gonna hide, what I'm gonna eat, how I'm gonna avoid
a social gathering, how I'm gonna get energy to go
through my class? And everything became about me restricting. I'm
going to say one of the things that my friends
(10:51):
told me, she said this about me, which was interesting.
She said, you know, you were the kind of person
that would light up a room when you would come
through as a friend gathering, and when you were going
through this period, it was like you were there was
nothing there, and I just it's it's hard for me
to see because I was in it, but to have
an outside perspective of people being like that wasn't dale.
(11:12):
And when I look back, I would journal during that time,
it was just like I now to this day, don't
even recognize that person. It wasn't me. So to tell
someone like it's one thing to make a healthy lifestyle
change and something that you feel good about and proud
about and having goals is amazing, But when you take
it too far and that becomes your world, it's not
(11:32):
something to glamorize. So a lot of people want to
move away from diet culture recognize that they have disordered
eating or poor body image or some sort of tendencies
that are not their healthiest, they don't feel like their
best self. But I think very few people work with
a professional, whether that's a mental health professional or a
registered dietitian. And what I see a lot on the
(11:55):
internet is a lot of people saying I tried not dieting,
intuitive eating, quitting diets, whatever, and it didn't work because X.
But I think there's something very important. And we've had
some amazing intuitive eating dietitians and therapists on the podcast
that are great resources for anybody who wants to kind
of go back and listen to them. But what was
(12:16):
it like to work with a professional while also, you know,
never taking a break from the public eye. I worked
with a team, so I had a nutritionist that eventually
I went to see a dietitian. I had a therapist
who specialized. Part of our specialty was in in disorders,
and then I also had a doctor who specialized in that.
So I know this isn't for everyone. But you don't
(12:37):
have to be a certain weight to be to have
an E disorder. I know that for sure, but in
my particular case, I had to be gaining a certain
amount of weight each week, so they put me, you know,
on a meal plan, and you know, at first, again
I was so resistant, But I think why that was
so effective for me. First of all, I think I
don't know. I don't know if anyone can recover on
(12:58):
their own. That I never imagine. Because you are fighting
against your own thoughts, you need someone to guide you.
And I think my therapist did some of the best work.
I think she was incredible. She really cracked down about
what was going through. And and this was like two years,
Like this isn't just like I went to a few
therapy sessions, I'm good now, Like this was me coming
(13:20):
back going from two times a week to a therapist
two times a week, to nutritionists and a group session
and to the doctor every single week to eventually every
week and then every other week and then eventually you
know that kind of stuff. So it kind of was
a lot of them not letting me quit. And then
there was that also at the beginning especially, they told
(13:41):
me like, we will not even continue with you and
we will send you to a higher level of care
if you don't do not cooperate with us. I grew
up like I always followed the rules. I love to
do well in school. So for me, like there was
two sides of me. There was the part that was
so resistant, but the part that wanted to like impress
them and do well and get my straight A. It
was weird, Like I was like every time I would
(14:02):
get away in like it was just the most stressful time. Souse.
I'm like, I wanted to be proud of me, but
I don't want to gain weight, And it was just
this fight. But eventually they were so supportive that it
started to trickle away. And I mean, it definitely wasn't easy,
but I think they had the right tools to get
me out of the mindset and be that support for me.
And then at one point you were very open about
(14:24):
working with the intuitive eating Dietitian. I remember you did
a ton of Q and a S on your your story.
Was that kind of after the treatment plan was solidified,
was this continued care? Yeah, So actually I electively decided
to do that. I originally saw nutritionist, but I felt
as though, and I think this is where the intuitive
eating thing is very necessary. I find that a lot
(14:44):
of people who may choose to recover by themselves or
go through things, they tied their disorder into a new
a new disorder. Maybe it's not everyone, but maybe it's veganism,
maybe it's inn and a fasting. Maybe they're just trying
to make an excuse of how they can maintain that troll.
And with the intuitive Eater, she really got those labels away,
like she had worked with me to be like there's
(15:07):
nothing that's gonna keep you controlled, like we are just
doing what's right for you. So when I was done
with the nutritionists, I found I still had a lot
more work to do in that area. I didn't feel
like the nutritionist I was with was as intuitive as I.
I was started following accounts on Instagram that we're very intuitive,
and I was like, I kind of want to see
someone like that. So I ended up seeing someone who
was super helpful, and we went through a program and
(15:30):
she doesn't actually see anyone who needs treatment and weigh
ins like this was kind of like after So it
was really that was like the final stage. And by
then I felt comfortable talking about it because I felt
like I was actually implementing the things that I should
be talking about. At the beginning, I wasn't comfortable because
I wasn't in a position to be talking about it
because I was still so disordered, so I kind of
(15:51):
kept that away from the public until I realized, Okay,
like this is actually how I'm living my life now.
And it was hard because I had this fear of
what if I bounced the other way and then no
one wanted to follow me because I was just promoting
junk food of time, so I was battling it. And
then I was like, wait, there is this like middle
ground I can find that's like healthy but also not
(16:12):
restrictive and enjoying my life, you know, and and nourishing
my body so in the best way possible. And I
think you do a really good job now of kind
of showing that on your account. One of my favorite
things that you do is you're really playful with food
and you'll you know, find something at like I don't know,
for lack of a better example here, like a gas
station or like a food that you've kind of forgot
(16:34):
about from your youth, and then you'll try them on
your stories and again, like on an account where you
expect the gluten free, grain free, dairy free version, you're
exposing it, and whether it's for yourself or for other people,
it's a really positive example to see it and normalize
it Is that intentional? Do you try to be a
good role model for others? Or is that now just
(16:57):
kind of like naturally who you are. I think now
that's naturally who I am. But I do like to
show both sides of the coin. I'm really careful in
again like not showing everything I eat. I don't want
like what I eat in a day's I don't want
people to compare themselves to me. I'm also again like
not certified in any way, so do people taking nutrition
advice for me? I like to show snippets of like
(17:18):
my green juices and my smoothies too, and something at
a restaurant or a new chip I found or froyo
or something that's more of like a treat and and
something that I'd love to enjoy. And so I think
that's definitely something I'd like to show and show that
you can enjoy all foods and they can all fit
(17:38):
into your daily incake. So yeah, and I think, now
that's like very telling of me. And I sometimes I
forget and I am like, am I healthy? Am I not?
Am I eating enough treats? Am I not? And then
I remember spending a couple of months with my family
this summer and they were like, you have your dessert,
you eat your greens, like they're like, wow, out like
(18:00):
you don't go crazy when the dessert comes and have
like a whole tub, but you know how to portion it.
And I was like, wow, that was honestly, so I
wasn't that I need validation, but it's good to know that, like,
because some of you in your own thoughts, and it's
good to know that I actually find myself like living
that way and people who are around me feel that
I'm not to one way or the other. So I
(18:21):
think it's kind of my life now. And I'm sure
that your family and your friends they notice bad about you,
but also that you're probably back to lighting up the
room when you walk in. That's so true because my
sister also said that to me this summer. She was
like a couple of summers ago, you came home and
she was like, I honestly was like, was dale always
(18:42):
like this? Was that? Like she she's like I started
to question my own sanity. She's like, I just remember,
like She's like I started to question myself because again,
I was such a chatterbox growing up. I was like
always in place and just again, like I had this
energy and she was like, and now I see it
and it's back. And I knew that it was just
like the because you were in this state, and but
(19:02):
she was like, I honestly questioned myself many times, being like,
maybe that wasn't the deal I remember. So it was
very interesting to hear that from my own sister, who
I speak to every single day, and you know, I
haven't lived there in like a decade, in in the
same cities, but it was it was really refreshing to
hear that I had been brought back to life and
there was a reason why I should never go back
(19:23):
to that stage. I feel like this right here gives
people hope. If they currently feel like they don't even
know themselves anymore, there's hope that you can get back
to that and they are there no matter how many
years it's been. Because for some people, they've been living
with their eating disorder since they were a teenager, and
we get emails from people in their fifties and sixties
and it's been decades. And I just don't want people
(19:45):
to think because it's been so long that they can't
get to who they really are. At the heart of
things and people can get to know the real them,
because yeah, I feel like I spent way too many
years just in this like emptiness becau is your brain
space is so preoccupied. Well, when you asked sort of
fill in her bubbles of what she was thinking in
(20:06):
that picture where she might have looked confident to an outsider.
You know, it's funny, Dale, you couldn't even come up
with what your thoughts were because they were so limited
and preoccupied to food, workout, hide your food, you know,
whatever you said. So I found that very telling of
your head space and were our headspace what it gets
shrunk down to? Its kind of the best way to
(20:28):
put it, and the main word that Dale used, because
I think I was like, when I pictured the activity,
I just sprung it on you, Dale. But I was like,
let's just do a rundown of adjectives, because wouldn't that
be a cool feature for Instagram to add of, like
if they could just do a brain scan and really
see what's going on in our our messed up heads
when we post something. But the adjective you did use
right away was small. You felt your world felt small,
(20:51):
and that's exactly what it is. I think that's a
perfect description totally. And I think what a lot of
people forget is they're so fearful of aiming weight. But
think about all the other things you've gained from that weight.
Think about or I know it's not for everyone and
some people's weight doesn't change and it's just their mindset.
But I had to really think of all the other
things I've gained. And my therapist I remember, said to me,
(21:14):
she's like, go look back at your because I'm a writer,
like I like to write bog posts, Go look back
at your blog post during that time, and they sucked.
My writing was just not as good. My ideas were
not as good. I just remember sometimes in sessions being
like what And there were just times when things first
when I was first going you know, so it was
(21:35):
just a lot of your right the brain, your brain
space is just preoccupied with that. How can you have
room for anything else? And it's just you're just in
fight or flight mode the whole time. And as you said,
people are in this for years. And I'm so grateful
I had a quick turnaround, but a lot of people don't,
and it's years of your life. And I just didn't
(21:55):
want to to take any more of my life away,
especially you know, being in my now I'm thirty but
late funnies in New York City building career, like it
really shrinks your world. I feel like maybe you could
offer advice to someone listening, since you did have family
and friends come to you, and I know you touched
on this, but maybe if you could get a little specific,
(22:15):
because we do get emails of like, you know, I
have a friend that's struggling, or a family member or
a daughter or whatever, but I don't know how to
bring it up to them without scaring the way or
get them getting super defensive or hurting their feelings. And honestly,
that might happen no matter what, but I just would
like for you to share a little bit more about
how they did that with you, and even if there
(22:36):
was resistance, if you could offer encouragement to people that
might have to be the person intervening. I think it's
actually you don't focus on the weight. I think people
who are a disorder, they all they think about his weight,
and if you tell them that they look too skinny,
they either get triggered by it. What helped me was
someone saying, you know, I feel like you're not yourself.
(22:56):
I feel like you are maybe unhappy. I feel like
again these words that like your personality. I just feel
like you're not the same and things seem off and
to actually get me to go. And I remember my
now fiance like said, he's like, you don't have to
gain weight, just talk to someone, and I think that
eased my fear and being like okay, like now I'll
(23:17):
go if they don't. Because the scariest thing for someone
who was in my position was that I was gonna
wake up one morning and gain all this weight. But
you don't realize that when I did gain the weight,
I actually gained a lot more body confidence. It was
when I was at my worst point that I had
my lowest body confidence. So it's really important to not
make it like you need to gain weight, you need
(23:37):
to eat more, and just be like you you know,
your personality has been different, Like why don't you talk
to someone and really just kind of crack you just
need to crack them open a little bit and just
get to them, be like something's different, like I'm here
to talk, no judgment and there you do. You have
to have some safe people you can talk to. For me,
that was my fiance, some of my friends, my sister,
(23:59):
and they just have to sympathize and understand that it's
not going to make sense for that person right now.
It's not going to be so simple just eat. And
I think another thing as a friend, I think the
most helpful thing was going to dinner with friends who
ordered like the pasta and didn't make a comment on
the pasta and they just like, like, I remember I
had a friend I was out for dinner and this
was like in a phase when like everyone was so
(24:20):
carb obsessed, carb demonizing, and she was like, um, actually
when did the pastor like I just feel like it
And I was like, and none of my friends would
do that like at that time, and I was like, oh,
and I remember, like those moments were moments that really
helped me in my journey and my recovery. So even
just being a good example as a friend, like don't
talk about diets, because I have friends all the time
(24:41):
that would still tell me about their diet knowing it.
So that's just really to be aware of that. I
love that advice. I think that's really helpful and I
try and also be Now now you can be that
person for other people and that's kind of the fun
part of being a bit on the other side. All right,
we don't want to take up too much of your time,
but boutique fitness kind of isn't what it was when
you started with COVID. There isn't you know, all the
(25:02):
places to review, and you and Elizabeth over at Sweats
in the City did make a huge pivot in the
last few weeks and you launched Sweat with Sweats and
this I think has a lot to do with mental
health in a way we can bring the joy back
to exercise. So can you tell us a little bit
about that and where we can find it? Yes, thank
you so much. So, Yes, we launched the platform. It
(25:24):
is on our website, Sweats and City dot com, and
Sweat with Sweats is essentially a online platform and we
have live workout hostings every day with different instructors or
almost every day, and we also do meditations and postural
alignment classes and it's all about kind of getting the
community together. And you know what we're all lacking at
(25:45):
home is that sense of community. There are so many options,
there are so many on demand options, but it's the
idea of like waking up or if it's an afternoon
class and having the ability to be on with people
and experience the energy and the connection. And we also
state into on demanding case you miss them, and just
getting a variety of different instructors and it's kind of
(26:05):
just all the workouts we love to do, you know,
even if you can get in twenty minutes of your day,
And that's just kind of what sparked it in our
minds to come up with this, and it's been awesome.
Well I've gotten to try it out too, and I
love that there is that meditation and that postural alignment
because it really does show your expanded version of feeling
confident in your body, not just you know, hit classes
(26:27):
or just really you know, the sweaty, hardcore stuff, and
just being able to see people. I know it's been
really lonely and a lot of people are experiencing disordered eating, exercise, addiction,
all these things for the first time because you know,
avoid was created in the past year of of really
being alone and not having the endorphins that are creating
and just seeing people. So I do love that community
(26:48):
aspect of jumping on a zoom and seeing a bunch
of people that you don't know, and there's something really
nice about that. Yeah, completely, and I think there's something
to be said about Yeah, there was like the dream
exercise addiction, but also finding that ground into being like
starting your day off with mindful movement, it's such an
effect on the rest of your day, Like once you
(27:09):
do something for yourself and carve out that time because
you love your body and you want to move it
versus I'm going to get a sweaty hour in and
not you know, skip out on food because they didn't exercise. Like,
that's not what it's about. It's more about Yeah, just
exactly said, like mindful movement and feeling good in your
body and your mind and just all those things. I
(27:32):
love everything that you shared, so Dale, thank you for
sharing your story with us. We'll put Sweats in the
City and the new Sweats with Sweats in the show
notes below. Thank you Dale for bravely telling your story.
I know that wasn't easy. We love and appreciate you.
Thank you so much. Yeah, that's the first time I've
ever been so open about my story. So thank you. Guys.
So honored to be on the platform. Yeah, thank you,
(27:54):
thanks for sharing it with us.
I won't lend my body out me out way everything
that I'm made do. Won't spend my life trying to change.
I'm learning a love who I am, I get I'm strong,
I feel free, I know who every part of me.
It's beautiful and I will always out way if you
(00:24):
feel it. With your hays in the air, she'll some
love to the MOOI at there say good day and
time did you and die out? Welcome back to Outweigh today.
Our guest is Dale Borsheverr. She is half of the
Instagram account and the blog Sweats in the City, and
we're here to talk to Dale about her intuitive eating
(00:46):
journey and all the things that kind of led her
to get help both internally and publicly to share that
story with her followers. So welcome Dale, So excited to
see you. Thank you both so much for having me.
I'm so excited to be on here. I know it's
in a little bit since you talked about this part
of your journey. It was very present on your Instagram
account as you were moving through it, which I thought
(01:08):
was very brave, especially a wellness blog where you're kind
of expected to kind of contribute to the noise in
some way. It takes bravery to say, okay, we need
to pull it back here. So you entered wellness blogging
and kind of found yourself in over your head when
it came to wellness trends. So how did the noise
(01:30):
of wellness infiltrate your mind in the beginning of your
career or maybe it was the middle of your career,
maybe not the exact beginning. Yeah, that's exactly right. You know,
when Elizabeth and I first started sweats in the City,
our main goal was to review studios and that was
my passion. I loved going to studios. I love the
community aspects of fujiq Fitness, and our account. The original
(01:51):
like pictures going way back, was just of the studio.
We weren't planning to be these influencer models, whatever you
like to call it. As we kind of gravitated towards
and then you know, we were starting to be asked
to do photo shoots and modeling clothing, and I think
there was a part of me that was wrongfully the way,
you know, my own insecurity, my own views of the world,
(02:14):
that I wasn't necessarily worthy of that position I had
in over my head. I'm like I don't have this
like perfect Instagram body with these rock hard abs, and like, yeah,
I always grew up like thin and I have a
lot of thin privileged but I just didn't feel like
I deserved to be in that position. Although I wasn't
a fitness trainer or anything. It was my own insecurities
(02:35):
that were holding me back. And you know, I was
comfortable wearing certain things on camera and I would generally
wear like a tea and leggings, and then I had
to wear crop tops and then I turned to bras
and like, it just stressed me out because I myself
didn't feel so comfortable, and I remember thinking, I was like, well,
you know what, instead of me trying to look inward
(02:56):
and be like a six pack of abs, that's not
my value, I decided I'm going to change how I
look until I get there and that will make me
feel better. So that's kind of where it started. And
there was a lot of things going on in my
life that made its spiral out of control, but there
was that insecurity inside me that definitely sparked from all this,
and I think it was just unleashing the beast, like
(03:19):
waiting for it to kind of come out Okay. So
I feel like we have a lot of listeners that
don't even realize that some of their behaviors are disordered,
because again, it's just so out there in society and
it's what we grow up seeing and viewing. And so
for you, yeah, you didn't look inward first. You were like, oh,
if I just go get this body that I quote
unquote need for Instagram, then everything will be fine and
(03:41):
I'll be happy. So I don't want to trigger anybody
with ideas of what you were doing, but I also
want you to share those ideas because it also might
make a lightbulb go off in some people's heads of like, oh,
I kind of do that. And this is not a
place where we want to call people out, and that's
not the point. But I think gets important that people
share their journey and when you had the wake up call,
(04:04):
because so many of us are just brainwashed. I was
for years. I didn't realize the disservice I was doing
to myself and my followers, because on your Instagram account
you have followers by not being aware of how disordered
my patterns were. Absolutely, I think that's a really great
question because I think I was kind of tricked, not tricked,
(04:25):
but I tricked myself into thinking I was being extremely
healthy and that visible body parts meant health, and in order,
once I got there, that meant that it would look
like I was extremely healthy and fit. So for me,
I was an extreme denial because I wasn't abusing any
pills or weighing myself. I was not even weighing myself.
I wasn't throwing up. It was just extreme restriction. And
(04:48):
at first what it started was I would say something
like orthorexia. I was scared to eat outside of my house.
I unfortunately took poor advice from other trainers who kind
of taught me would get there. I followed certain diets
that I were led to believe that were good for
my health that weren't. And for me, I think I'm
already a small person, so my body fights to be
(05:11):
at this set point weight, and in order for me
to exceed that set point weight, extreme restriction had to
be in place because it wasn't so easy for me
to just lose a few pounds, like you know, maybe
a few, but not much more than that. So what
went from being like started some health emales at home
and some swaps that I thought were good for me
(05:32):
turned into extreme fear of social situations, going out to
eat food that I didn't know what was inside the ingredients.
I wouldn't say calories, but I had an overall like
sense of what what things were higher calories. I honestly
don't even know what I was eating. But the truth
is many people had to approach me about it, and
(05:53):
at first I was so resistant. People were like, you
lost a lot of weight, and at first it was compliments,
and I think it's definitely triggered me to keep going
like wow, like clearly it's working and maybe I am
going to be this fitness professional that I've dreamed of
by people asking me what my method is. And then
it turned into okay, people are getting worried. I was
getting comments on social media, and then it turned into
(06:14):
like a full on intervention from my family that were
like you got to stop this or get off of
social media because this is not gonna end well if
you don't get help now. So that's kind of what
turned it around for me. And I was so resistant.
I mean I wasn't fully resistant. I listened to them,
but I was like, you don't get it, Like I
am so healthy I'm doing all the workouts the other
(06:34):
girls are doing. I just didn't see it. I was
so deep and I thought it was normal and it wasn't.
And I think that was just deep denial. And there's
kind of two angles of this way. I really wanted
to hear your story. And number one is because you
kind of transitioned very quickly from the regular person, if
you will, to wellness expert, and with that came a
(06:57):
very abrupt kind of learning of this is what you
do when you're healthy. You don't eat this, you eat this.
There's a substitute for just about everything. And it starts
off really, you know, exciting and positive and wow, this
taste just like my favorite Da dada, And before you
know it, you develop these fears of foods and you're
(07:18):
crutching onto these foods and you won't go out of
your house. And it's very easy to happen to anybody.
And I think that's kind of what I want, and
quickly it could happen very quickly, especially with the access
to these foods that we have. And number two is
because you are an influencer who you know. I'm sure
those pictures that you were posing in during that time
(07:38):
people thought you had it all figured out. And I
think it's just important when we look at anybody's photos
to know that every one of us is on a
journey of some kind, and it's important to just you know,
not mimic what somebody else is doing or even judge them,
but really, you know, figure our stuff out for ourselves.
So it sounds like your wake up call was your
(08:00):
family really stepping in, which is powerful when you're in
your mid twenties or so. Right. Yeah, absolutely, I think
it took that to really make me go seek help
because there was, you know, the comments. It's very easy
on social media to be like, oh, these are just haters,
and I completely agree haters do exist. But I knew
something was up, and I think I just wouldn't admit it.
(08:22):
And I think, like, as you said, portraying this idea
of having it all figured out is such a common
theme that we see, and it's it's crazy that a
lot of people who act like they haven't figured out
really are are struggling. So it it definitely did take
a strong wake up call. And even so, like I
didn't even realize it when my parents were like, we
(08:43):
just want you to talk to someone, we just want
you to go to a dietitian. Again, like I'm not
I don't have any credentials. I was never giving advice
to anyone that was not that's not what I'm certified in.
Our goal was to make a fun, boutique fitness account,
and I didn't want people to mimic me, but I
found the people were looking to me to you know,
what are you eating, what are you what supplements you're taking,
(09:05):
what shoes are you wearing? So it was kind of
became like an all encompassing thing. It wasn't just about
reviewing studios anymore. It was who are you? And how
can I become that? And that was what was so
much pressure for me of someone who would literally before this,
I was ordering pet tie and pizza and like, I
never worried about my weight. It was just not a thing.
(09:25):
And then all of a sudden, I felt that pressure.
So I want to do a little activity with you
for people, because I think a lot of times when
you're scrolling on Instagram, Yeah, you see this body or
that body, and you wonder what they're doing. And so
let's pretend we're talking about one of your pictures that
you were super proud of you finally got to where
you were Like again, on the inside, you weren't feeling
that great, but on the outside you're like, Yes, this
(09:47):
is what I've been working for. Now what if and
this is what I think would be amazing if this
was possible on social media. What if you see that
picture but then coming out of your head was a
bubble of what you were really feeling on the inside
at that moment because we all double tap and then
you know, comment, And when I say we, I mean
the collective. That's like still part of that narrative of
(10:09):
like what are you doing giving all the details? I
want your body, even though everybody's body is completely different.
But say someone is commenting like, oh my gosh, she
looks so great. I want to know all your details.
But like what if that person was able to double
tap your photo and then get a look inside your
brain at that very moment, Like what what are some
adjectives to describe what you were feeling like inside? Yeah?
(10:31):
I love that question. I think that just my world
was so small. I would wake up, I think about food,
I think about what I'm going to eat, how I'm
gonna hide, what I'm gonna eat, how I'm gonna avoid
a social gathering, how I'm gonna get energy to go
through my class? And everything became about me restricting. I'm
going to say one of the things that my friends
(10:51):
told me, she said this about me, which was interesting.
She said, you know, you were the kind of person
that would light up a room when you would come
through as a friend gathering, and when you were going
through this period, it was like you were there was
nothing there, and I just it's it's hard for me
to see because I was in it, but to have
an outside perspective of people being like that wasn't dale.
(11:12):
And when I look back, I would journal during that time,
it was just like I now to this day, don't
even recognize that person. It wasn't me. So to tell
someone like it's one thing to make a healthy lifestyle
change and something that you feel good about and proud
about and having goals is amazing, But when you take
it too far and that becomes your world, it's not
(11:32):
something to glamorize. So a lot of people want to
move away from diet culture recognize that they have disordered
eating or poor body image or some sort of tendencies
that are not their healthiest, they don't feel like their
best self. But I think very few people work with
a professional, whether that's a mental health professional or a
registered dietitian. And what I see a lot on the
(11:55):
internet is a lot of people saying I tried not dieting,
intuitive eating, quitting diets, whatever, and it didn't work because X.
But I think there's something very important. And we've had
some amazing intuitive eating dietitians and therapists on the podcast
that are great resources for anybody who wants to kind
of go back and listen to them. But what was
(12:16):
it like to work with a professional while also, you know,
never taking a break from the public eye. I worked
with a team, so I had a nutritionist that eventually
I went to see a dietitian. I had a therapist
who specialized. Part of our specialty was in in disorders,
and then I also had a doctor who specialized in that.
So I know this isn't for everyone. But you don't
(12:37):
have to be a certain weight to be to have
an E disorder. I know that for sure, but in
my particular case, I had to be gaining a certain
amount of weight each week, so they put me, you know,
on a meal plan, and you know, at first, again
I was so resistant, But I think why that was
so effective for me. First of all, I think I
don't know. I don't know if anyone can recover on
(12:58):
their own. That I never imagine. Because you are fighting
against your own thoughts, you need someone to guide you.
And I think my therapist did some of the best work.
I think she was incredible. She really cracked down about
what was going through. And and this was like two years,
Like this isn't just like I went to a few
therapy sessions, I'm good now, Like this was me coming
(13:20):
back going from two times a week to a therapist
two times a week, to nutritionists and a group session
and to the doctor every single week to eventually every
week and then every other week and then eventually you
know that kind of stuff. So it kind of was
a lot of them not letting me quit. And then
there was that also at the beginning especially, they told
(13:41):
me like, we will not even continue with you and
we will send you to a higher level of care
if you don't do not cooperate with us. I grew
up like I always followed the rules. I love to
do well in school. So for me, like there was
two sides of me. There was the part that was
so resistant, but the part that wanted to like impress
them and do well and get my straight A. It
was weird, Like I was like every time I would
(14:02):
get away in like it was just the most stressful time. Souse.
I'm like, I wanted to be proud of me, but
I don't want to gain weight, And it was just
this fight. But eventually they were so supportive that it
started to trickle away. And I mean, it definitely wasn't easy,
but I think they had the right tools to get
me out of the mindset and be that support for me.
And then at one point you were very open about
(14:24):
working with the intuitive eating Dietitian. I remember you did
a ton of Q and a S on your your story.
Was that kind of after the treatment plan was solidified,
was this continued care? Yeah, So actually I electively decided
to do that. I originally saw nutritionist, but I felt
as though, and I think this is where the intuitive
eating thing is very necessary. I find that a lot
(14:44):
of people who may choose to recover by themselves or
go through things, they tied their disorder into a new
a new disorder. Maybe it's not everyone, but maybe it's veganism,
maybe it's inn and a fasting. Maybe they're just trying
to make an excuse of how they can maintain that troll.
And with the intuitive Eater, she really got those labels away,
like she had worked with me to be like there's
(15:07):
nothing that's gonna keep you controlled, like we are just
doing what's right for you. So when I was done
with the nutritionists, I found I still had a lot
more work to do in that area. I didn't feel
like the nutritionist I was with was as intuitive as I.
I was started following accounts on Instagram that we're very intuitive,
and I was like, I kind of want to see
someone like that. So I ended up seeing someone who
was super helpful, and we went through a program and
(15:30):
she doesn't actually see anyone who needs treatment and weigh
ins like this was kind of like after So it
was really that was like the final stage. And by
then I felt comfortable talking about it because I felt
like I was actually implementing the things that I should
be talking about. At the beginning, I wasn't comfortable because
I wasn't in a position to be talking about it
because I was still so disordered, so I kind of
(15:51):
kept that away from the public until I realized, Okay,
like this is actually how I'm living my life now.
And it was hard because I had this fear of
what if I bounced the other way and then no
one wanted to follow me because I was just promoting
junk food of time, so I was battling it. And
then I was like, wait, there is this like middle
ground I can find that's like healthy but also not
(16:12):
restrictive and enjoying my life, you know, and and nourishing
my body so in the best way possible. And I
think you do a really good job now of kind
of showing that on your account. One of my favorite
things that you do is you're really playful with food
and you'll you know, find something at like I don't know,
for lack of a better example here, like a gas
station or like a food that you've kind of forgot
(16:34):
about from your youth, and then you'll try them on
your stories and again, like on an account where you
expect the gluten free, grain free, dairy free version, you're
exposing it, and whether it's for yourself or for other people,
it's a really positive example to see it and normalize
it Is that intentional? Do you try to be a
good role model for others? Or is that now just
(16:57):
kind of like naturally who you are. I think now
that's naturally who I am. But I do like to
show both sides of the coin. I'm really careful in
again like not showing everything I eat. I don't want
like what I eat in a day's I don't want
people to compare themselves to me. I'm also again like
not certified in any way, so do people taking nutrition
advice for me? I like to show snippets of like
(17:18):
my green juices and my smoothies too, and something at
a restaurant or a new chip I found or froyo
or something that's more of like a treat and and
something that I'd love to enjoy. And so I think
that's definitely something I'd like to show and show that
you can enjoy all foods and they can all fit
(17:38):
into your daily incake. So yeah, and I think, now
that's like very telling of me. And I sometimes I
forget and I am like, am I healthy? Am I not?
Am I eating enough treats? Am I not? And then
I remember spending a couple of months with my family
this summer and they were like, you have your dessert,
you eat your greens, like they're like, wow, out like
(18:00):
you don't go crazy when the dessert comes and have
like a whole tub, but you know how to portion it.
And I was like, wow, that was honestly, so I
wasn't that I need validation, but it's good to know that, like,
because some of you in your own thoughts, and it's
good to know that I actually find myself like living
that way and people who are around me feel that
I'm not to one way or the other. So I
(18:21):
think it's kind of my life now. And I'm sure
that your family and your friends they notice bad about you,
but also that you're probably back to lighting up the
room when you walk in. That's so true because my
sister also said that to me this summer. She was
like a couple of summers ago, you came home and
she was like, I honestly was like, was dale always
(18:42):
like this? Was that? Like she she's like I started
to question my own sanity. She's like, I just remember,
like She's like I started to question myself because again,
I was such a chatterbox growing up. I was like
always in place and just again, like I had this
energy and she was like, and now I see it
and it's back. And I knew that it was just
like the because you were in this state, and but
(19:02):
she was like, I honestly questioned myself many times, being like,
maybe that wasn't the deal I remember. So it was
very interesting to hear that from my own sister, who
I speak to every single day, and you know, I
haven't lived there in like a decade, in in the
same cities, but it was it was really refreshing to
hear that I had been brought back to life and
there was a reason why I should never go back
(19:23):
to that stage. I feel like this right here gives
people hope. If they currently feel like they don't even
know themselves anymore, there's hope that you can get back
to that and they are there no matter how many
years it's been. Because for some people, they've been living
with their eating disorder since they were a teenager, and
we get emails from people in their fifties and sixties
and it's been decades. And I just don't want people
(19:45):
to think because it's been so long that they can't
get to who they really are. At the heart of
things and people can get to know the real them,
because yeah, I feel like I spent way too many
years just in this like emptiness becau is your brain
space is so preoccupied. Well, when you asked sort of
fill in her bubbles of what she was thinking in
(20:06):
that picture where she might have looked confident to an outsider.
You know, it's funny, Dale, you couldn't even come up
with what your thoughts were because they were so limited
and preoccupied to food, workout, hide your food, you know,
whatever you said. So I found that very telling of
your head space and were our headspace what it gets
shrunk down to? Its kind of the best way to
(20:28):
put it, and the main word that Dale used, because
I think I was like, when I pictured the activity,
I just sprung it on you, Dale. But I was like,
let's just do a rundown of adjectives, because wouldn't that
be a cool feature for Instagram to add of, like
if they could just do a brain scan and really
see what's going on in our our messed up heads
when we post something. But the adjective you did use
right away was small. You felt your world felt small,
(20:51):
and that's exactly what it is. I think that's a
perfect description totally. And I think what a lot of
people forget is they're so fearful of aiming weight. But
think about all the other things you've gained from that weight.
Think about or I know it's not for everyone and
some people's weight doesn't change and it's just their mindset.
But I had to really think of all the other
things I've gained. And my therapist I remember, said to me,
(21:14):
she's like, go look back at your because I'm a writer,
like I like to write bog posts, Go look back
at your blog post during that time, and they sucked.
My writing was just not as good. My ideas were
not as good. I just remember sometimes in sessions being
like what And there were just times when things first
when I was first going you know, so it was
(21:35):
just a lot of your right the brain, your brain
space is just preoccupied with that. How can you have
room for anything else? And it's just you're just in
fight or flight mode the whole time. And as you said,
people are in this for years. And I'm so grateful
I had a quick turnaround, but a lot of people don't,
and it's years of your life. And I just didn't
(21:55):
want to to take any more of my life away,
especially you know, being in my now I'm thirty but
late funnies in New York City building career, like it
really shrinks your world. I feel like maybe you could
offer advice to someone listening, since you did have family
and friends come to you, and I know you touched
on this, but maybe if you could get a little specific,
(22:15):
because we do get emails of like, you know, I
have a friend that's struggling, or a family member or
a daughter or whatever, but I don't know how to
bring it up to them without scaring the way or
get them getting super defensive or hurting their feelings. And honestly,
that might happen no matter what, but I just would
like for you to share a little bit more about
how they did that with you, and even if there
(22:36):
was resistance, if you could offer encouragement to people that
might have to be the person intervening. I think it's
actually you don't focus on the weight. I think people
who are a disorder, they all they think about his weight,
and if you tell them that they look too skinny,
they either get triggered by it. What helped me was
someone saying, you know, I feel like you're not yourself.
(22:56):
I feel like you are maybe unhappy. I feel like
again these words that like your personality. I just feel
like you're not the same and things seem off and
to actually get me to go. And I remember my
now fiance like said, he's like, you don't have to
gain weight, just talk to someone, and I think that
eased my fear and being like okay, like now I'll
(23:17):
go if they don't. Because the scariest thing for someone
who was in my position was that I was gonna
wake up one morning and gain all this weight. But
you don't realize that when I did gain the weight,
I actually gained a lot more body confidence. It was
when I was at my worst point that I had
my lowest body confidence. So it's really important to not
make it like you need to gain weight, you need
(23:37):
to eat more, and just be like you you know,
your personality has been different, Like why don't you talk
to someone and really just kind of crack you just
need to crack them open a little bit and just
get to them, be like something's different, like I'm here
to talk, no judgment and there you do. You have
to have some safe people you can talk to. For me,
that was my fiance, some of my friends, my sister,
(23:59):
and they just have to sympathize and understand that it's
not going to make sense for that person right now.
It's not going to be so simple just eat. And
I think another thing as a friend, I think the
most helpful thing was going to dinner with friends who
ordered like the pasta and didn't make a comment on
the pasta and they just like, like, I remember I
had a friend I was out for dinner and this
was like in a phase when like everyone was so
(24:20):
carb obsessed, carb demonizing, and she was like, um, actually
when did the pastor like I just feel like it
And I was like, and none of my friends would
do that like at that time, and I was like, oh,
and I remember, like those moments were moments that really
helped me in my journey and my recovery. So even
just being a good example as a friend, like don't
talk about diets, because I have friends all the time
(24:41):
that would still tell me about their diet knowing it.
So that's just really to be aware of that. I
love that advice. I think that's really helpful and I
try and also be Now now you can be that
person for other people and that's kind of the fun
part of being a bit on the other side. All right,
we don't want to take up too much of your time,
but boutique fitness kind of isn't what it was when
you started with COVID. There isn't you know, all the
(25:02):
places to review, and you and Elizabeth over at Sweats
in the City did make a huge pivot in the
last few weeks and you launched Sweat with Sweats and
this I think has a lot to do with mental
health in a way we can bring the joy back
to exercise. So can you tell us a little bit
about that and where we can find it? Yes, thank
you so much. So, Yes, we launched the platform. It
(25:24):
is on our website, Sweats and City dot com, and
Sweat with Sweats is essentially a online platform and we
have live workout hostings every day with different instructors or
almost every day, and we also do meditations and postural
alignment classes and it's all about kind of getting the
community together. And you know what we're all lacking at
(25:45):
home is that sense of community. There are so many options,
there are so many on demand options, but it's the
idea of like waking up or if it's an afternoon
class and having the ability to be on with people
and experience the energy and the connection. And we also
state into on demanding case you miss them, and just
getting a variety of different instructors and it's kind of
(26:05):
just all the workouts we love to do, you know,
even if you can get in twenty minutes of your day,
And that's just kind of what sparked it in our
minds to come up with this, and it's been awesome.
Well I've gotten to try it out too, and I
love that there is that meditation and that postural alignment
because it really does show your expanded version of feeling
confident in your body, not just you know, hit classes
(26:27):
or just really you know, the sweaty, hardcore stuff, and
just being able to see people. I know it's been
really lonely and a lot of people are experiencing disordered eating, exercise, addiction,
all these things for the first time because you know,
avoid was created in the past year of of really
being alone and not having the endorphins that are creating
and just seeing people. So I do love that community
(26:48):
aspect of jumping on a zoom and seeing a bunch
of people that you don't know, and there's something really
nice about that. Yeah, completely, and I think there's something
to be said about Yeah, there was like the dream
exercise addiction, but also finding that ground into being like
starting your day off with mindful movement, it's such an
effect on the rest of your day, Like once you
(27:09):
do something for yourself and carve out that time because
you love your body and you want to move it
versus I'm going to get a sweaty hour in and
not you know, skip out on food because they didn't exercise. Like,
that's not what it's about. It's more about Yeah, just
exactly said, like mindful movement and feeling good in your
body and your mind and just all those things. I
(27:32):
love everything that you shared, so Dale, thank you for
sharing your story with us. We'll put Sweats in the
City and the new Sweats with Sweats in the show
notes below. Thank you Dale for bravely telling your story.
I know that wasn't easy. We love and appreciate you.
Thank you so much. Yeah, that's the first time I've
ever been so open about my story. So thank you. Guys.
So honored to be on the platform. Yeah, thank you,
(27:54):
thanks for sharing it with us.
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Amy Brown
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