Top 10 Simple Pleasures in Life {& more!!} w/ Therapist Kat Defatta

Amy & Kat {licensed therapist, @KatDefatta} go over the TOP 10 SIMPLE PLEASURE IN LIFE, according to a new survey. This topic was supposed to just be the FIRST THING, but Amy & Kat had so much to say about/between each simple pleasure that they ran out of time for the other things. WHOOPS. Hope you enjoy today’s "thing" and that you're able to enjoy some of life’s simple pleasures! *RadioAmy.com*

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Okay, little food for you so life. Oh it's pretty,
but it's pretty beautiful thing that's a little moth kick

(00:30):
with four. Okay, hey guys, it's Amy and I'm doing
a little intro to the episode because well, the episode
took a turn. I did not plan to do just
one thing with Kat. I've got Cat de Fodda here
with me. You'll hear it in the intro coming up
in just a second, say hey Kt, Hi, guys, and

(00:50):
we just were talking and we just let everything flow
and we went a million different directions from our birds.
Really loved ones visiting us that have passed on. There's
some of the Rachel Hollis drama, like neural pathways in
the brain, the intensive therapy work that I did and
the therapist I was working with, and just things that

(01:11):
I learned from her as I was working through some trauma.
What else do we talk about? Ice cream? Cookies? You
literally talked about everything. We talked about everything. But you'll
hear in the intro in just a second, I'm saying, oh,
Cat's gonna be with me for all four things. And yeah,
I felt like I needed to come and give you
a heads up that we covered like twenty five things,

(01:35):
and it's all in one swoop, so there might be
some commercial breaks mixed in, but I hope that you'll
stick with us the entire episode because Kat is a
therapist and offered a lot of insight, and I shared
some things that we're going on with me that might
be helpful for you. And then yeah, we covered the
top ten simple pleasures in life according to America. There

(01:56):
was a study that was done and it takes us
a long time, but we get through all ten. So
I want you to hear tin through one. And yeah,
so this little intro and now here is the episode.
But don't be fooled when I say she's going to
be here for all four things, because really she's here
for all five things. Alright, Happy Thursday. Welcome to the

(02:21):
four Things podcast. I'm Amy and I am back. I
have not been back on a Thursday four Things episode,
and I don't know three or four weeks, maybe like
a month. I've got Cat Defada joining me here. She
is a licensed therapist who have likely heard of my
podcast before. She's also my friend and she is also
on my podcast network, and she hosts her own podcast

(02:41):
called You Need Therapy. Cat State your credentials please, So
I'm a licensed professional counselor. The letters that go behind
my name would be m h SPS, a Mental Health
Service provider, which gives me also the ability to treat
and diagnose people. Right, So, being that this is my
first Thursday episode back, who better to have by my
side the service? Who can you know, help me with

(03:05):
my mental health and overall help all of us with
our mental health? I think it's super important. But really,
I mean, yeah, Cat's my friend, and it was helpful
last week when I did the fifth thing, having my
friend Mary with me, having Mary here and being like, hey,
let's just go record, it allowed me to do it.
And so I had a fifth thing last week, but
I didn't have a fourth thing because I just couldn't

(03:27):
rally and pull it together. I'm trying to ease back
into work life and just so that I keep it together.
I don't even know really where to start or what
to say. But the first thing we're gonna get into,
and Cat's going to be here for all four things
is an article that I found about America's favorite simple
pleasures and it ranked them. And I don't know that
I need to go in order of the ranking, But really,

(03:48):
I just want to point out for sure what came
in at number six on the list, and it was
a simple pleasure in life is spotting a species of
a bird that you've never seen before. And let me
just tell y'all about how I saw this really exotic
blue bird in my backyard last week. I'd never seen

(04:09):
this bird before, cat it was beautiful. So you're saying,
out of all your avid bird watching days that we've
all been witnessing the past couple of months, you've never
seen no this this All of a sudden, I look
at my feeder and I see this blue bird, and
I'm like, I better get my chart because I need
to identify this rare bird. And so I go to

(04:30):
the chart and I'm able to see pretty quickly that
it's a blue jay. And I was like, oh, well,
it's not as rare and exotic as I thought it's
a blue jay, but still it was stunning and I
had never seen one before, and now I see them
like you. We were downstairs earlier and I was like, oh,
there's a blue jay, and I said it's my dad.

(04:51):
Because when after my mom died, my sister would see
cardinals like, right after my mom died, she saw a
cardinal at the window, and it became this whole thing,
and now when we see cardinals, we're just like, hey mom.
And then I posted on Instagram that I saw the
blue jay. Well, first I said I've spotted a rare bird,
and then I firmed with my chart that it was

(05:12):
a blue jay. And multiple people said, hey, you know
you've never seen that bird in your backyard, but like, now, hey,
that's your dad. And so now whenever I see a
blue jay, I say, hey Dad. And then my cousin,
who is a psychic of sorts, I don't know. Again,
jury is still out on whether or not I even

(05:33):
believe in any of this, but she is my cousin,
and she has made some really crazy accurate predictions or
statements about people and life, and I want to support
her as a cousin, Like I don't know that necessarily
I believe it, but I don't know who am I
to say. I don't know. She's tapping into some higher
level of I don't know. And she sent me a

(05:56):
text and was like, oh my gosh, it's so fitting
of your dad to show up as a blue jay.
She's like I'm laughing because that's totally him, like his
style to be a blue jay. So I don't know, Cat,
your mental health expert, what are your thoughts on this?
I have a couple of thoughts. One, I don't know
anything about birds, so I don't know anything about that.

(06:17):
But what is interesting is even talking about that article
because the article is talking about simple pleasures. So what
I do think is there could be a lot of meaning,
and you're the one that would pull it out because
it's yours, it's your life. There could be a lot
of meaning and one you noticing this thing that you've
never noticed before right after this happened in your life,
and that could mean that that's your dad. Also could

(06:37):
mean something about you slowing down and noticing things you've
never noticed before. It could be it could mean a
lot of things. That doesn't matter what anybody else thinks
about it. It's whatever you want to attach to it.
So I got to be your dad, gets to be
your dad? Well, I know. And my daughter was in
the kitchen whenever you heard it earlier, and I was like, hey, dad,
and she looks at me and she's like, mom, that

(06:58):
is not pebble, you know. She just thinks it's ridiculous,
but it is something. Yes, I think that is comforting
for me. So I'm just going to continue with it
regardless of if I really believe it or not. I mean,
do I really believe that it's my dad? Probably not,
but I don't know, and I like the thought of
him coming to visit me as a blue jay. I

(07:18):
think you do believe that, you do? Okay, I don't know,
because I think you're questioning it because it's weird, like
it is. You feel like you sound like crazy because
you think your dad's coming back to see you as
a bird. Yes, yes, I do sound crazy, Okay. I mean,
but if you happen to think that, I don't think
that you're crazy, just like if you happen to believe
in like my cousin, for example, I don't think you're

(07:38):
crazy if you want to reach out to her and
you're into that. I'm I'm at a place now where
I'm comfortable, and I guess my faith and what I believe.
I don't really know everything in the universe that there
is to know, so I guess I leave space for just,
you know, people interpreting things the way they want to
interpret them. There you go. If that's how you want

(07:59):
to inters seeing something new for the first time and
it's comforting, then you get to do that. I'm going
to share some of the other simple pleasures that were
listed in case people need to slow down and enjoy
life a little bit. So in at number ten was
a match on a dating site. I guess that means
you have to be on a dating site to enjoy that.

(08:22):
But Cat has said that she's done with those. That's
not a simple pleasure anymore. Uh huh. And I have
seen some of her matches or her swife my matches.
I have seen some of her options, and yeah, the
fish and the c are interesting to say the least

(08:42):
these days. And at number nine, home cooked meal. In
at number eight, wearing an outfit that makes you feel good.
Seven seeing flowers and trees blossom. I don't know that
I've quite gotten there. I have, which, if I think,
is weird because I noticed I moved into my house
last year, so I didn't know what was there and
like the springtime and this year, I walked onto my

(09:04):
door one day, my front door, and there were two
daftdills that had just bloomed in my front yard, and
I literally took a picture and said to my mom
and I said, this is the most beautiful surprise I've
ever had. And then I was like what, like what
since when do I like stop and like actually take
a picture of like a random flower. But then it
was nice of like I used to not notice this.
That's great. See you were taking in a simple pleasure.

(09:25):
Now that we've talked about it, I might notice something blossoming. Um.
Then at number six was spotting a species of a
bird that you've never seen before. Five doing some exercise
or something. At four, finishing a really good book. I
want that pleasure right now. I feelishing a good book.
I like it when the book lasts forever, Okay, but

(09:45):
I mean the idea. I guess you're getting to the
conclusion of something, like I want that, especially if it's
a series. Maybe you finished the first book and then
you moved to the second. It's like a trilogy or something.
But right now I'm just engulfed and mental health self
health type books that yeah, I'm not enjoying reading really,

(10:08):
And I just did this therapy intensive and I like
that the therapist I was working with kind of held
her fist up as like your brain, and it talked
about like and then you take your palm of your
other hand and just lay it on top. And that
palm that you're laying on top that could basically be
all the self help type things that you consume. But

(10:28):
really it's just a layer on top unless you go
in and try to really maybe do some of the
work in the brain and release it through the body.
Which brings me to one of the books that I'm
listening to on audible and reading because it's so much
information I want both the visual and the audio of
the body keeps the score and it makes me think, yes,
makes you think about that, like we can kind of

(10:49):
do all these different things to try to like help
us with our trauma or different things that are going
on in our life. But it really is I guess
there's a podcast you really see my visual but it's
kind of like a little blanket for your brain and
you're laying it on top and it's great, might keep
you warm, but like you may have some stuff going

(11:10):
on inside of there that needs to be released and
it's not going to happen unless you're able to really
do the work. And I know that I say that
coming from a place of privilege, being someone who had
the opportunity to go do that. And this isn't me
being like, oh look at me, I got to go
do it. Like I really do have a lot of
gratitude for being able to go do something like that

(11:32):
because I did some brain spotting. I went pretty deep
into some I guess you call them and cat you
may know more about this, but like picture little time
capsules in the back of your brain that haven't been
opened up and who knows how long, maybe you didn't
even know some of them were even there, and you're
able to open them up and release them with emotion
and thought and then kind of reframe them. But it

(11:55):
takes work. It's not easy stuff at all. And maybe
even the framing for me, I don't even know that
that part fully sunken. But you can kind of tell
yourself the story of ultimately that you're safe and everything's
going to be okay, and then your body can be
Like so right now, I'm consuming a lot of things

(12:16):
that are my blanket on top of my brain, but
I have to do more. Well. I do feel like
I've done the work, but I have continued work to
do it, just makes me think of like just how
many people out there are suffering in a sense and
going through so much and they never either exposed to
the opportunity or they don't have the resources, or it's

(12:38):
just like there's shame in therapy, or yeah, that's so
good because I'm really grateful for the like amount of
resources that there are in the world for people to
learn about themselves and dive into that kind of stuff.
And at the same time, what I want people to
know is that, like, if that's all you have, I

(12:59):
want you to utilize that, yes, as much as you can,
but it's one it's not a one size fits all,
and two it's not the whole like shebang, and it
can only take you so far. Even as like I'll
use this as an example, I can go to school
for years and years and years and learn learn learn
everything there is to know about the brain and mental health,
but I'm not going to actually really know how to
be a therapist until I go do therapy and do that.

(13:21):
And that's the same as a client as I can
read and read and read and soak in information, but
until I actually go through the experiences of applying that
through therapeutic practices that are experiential and which is what
I was doing, which is what you're doing. Experience. That's
how you make the real shifts and change within your body,
within your brain. You can't change your brain by just

(13:41):
reading right. Yeah, I'll throw that out there as a
thing too. If you are looking for a therapist, I
do get emails sometimes, I'm sure you do. Two cat
of like, how do I even know how to find
the right one. This is my first time really working
in person with an experiential therapist. I have done some
things over zoom because was that was just the way

(14:04):
we had to do it. But any therapists before they
were just normal talk, which is totally fine. Where do
you fall both both? I do. I mean, some of
what we do is talk, but I was trying to experientially.
When you're doing real trauma work, that talking only takes
you so far. That is why virtual therapy can be
really hard, because it's hard to get the client in

(14:25):
a space where they're able to even settle down into
that stuff. Yeah. I'm trying to get my sister to
go do what I did, because right before I left
to go, she ended up in the hospital thinking she
was having a heart attack, but she was literally having
a panic anxiety attack. I mean her said her hands

(14:46):
were nom she was sweating, like her heart like she
really felt a dent. She walked into the hospital and
her pajamas At one am. She was like, I don't
even want to put real clothes on because her husband's like,
let's get dressed. We'll go to the er, see what happens.
She's like, no, get in the car, let's go. And
we both just lost our dad and also have had
other things happening to and even some of my stuff

(15:08):
that she's been a part of because she was here,
Like there just was a lot. She's juggling a lot,
and she's a mom of four and there's business owners
and they're shooting a TV show something that my dad
would have been like so proud of her for. I'm
so sad he's not going to be able to see that.
But she's been in denial, like literal denial that this
is going to TV. It really is. They've filmed the pilot.

(15:31):
We can't say the network name yet, but it's a
design build type firm, so you probably guess hopefully I
don't get fine for that, but you know, it's gonna
be really cool. But she's freaking out. I don't even
think she's healed from when our mom died and process
some of that trauma because we're you. Until you started
doing a lot of his work, you know, I think

(15:51):
that I worked through a lot just even unfinished business
with my mom, even though she's been dead seven years.
What was crazy was being able to almost talk to
her in a sense because I drew her and then
I had conversations with her as I looked at her,
and it was, yes, experiential, and it felt personal, and

(16:13):
I felt like I was able to release some things
that I had been holding onto, maybe that I didn't
even know I was holding. That we're living in your body.
They were living in my body, and manifesting is something else.
And so with my sister, I think, yes, hers is
absolutely manifesting. Christie, if you're listening right now, I love you,
and you need to call Linda. Linda was my therapist
that I worked with for an intensive and shout out

(16:37):
Linda like she was seventy three years old, and so
you know, I was working with someone that was very wise.
She didn't beat around the bush. She told it to
me like it was, Yeah, we're kind of digressing from
the simple pleasures. But I would love to know if
you could tell us, like three things that Linda taught you. Okay,
I can tell you. One thing I learned for sure

(16:58):
was keep it down the middle. Linda would say, Amy,
keep it down the middle. She told me that needs
to be a shirt because I told her about our
it's fine, I'm fine, everything is fine shirt and she
loved it. Already mailed a one. So I was confused
by Okay, let's say that someone is codependent and a

(17:19):
behavior of that might be worries all the time. Use
the phrase symptom okay, symptom okay. So a symptom of
codependency is worries all the time. Another symptom of codependency
is never worries. Okay. So to me, that was confusing.
This is just an example too. It could be of anything,

(17:40):
but it was confusing that. Wait, no I thought that this,
But really there can be so many symptoms of so
many different types of people and dependencies of this and
that and whatever. But it's really everyone. We're all made
so differently, and we have a different filter, a life
filter that we're putting things through. We have different traumas

(18:00):
that are going to cause us to react, either an
anxious hot mess or someone that's totally detached and not
worrying at all. But I was confused. I was like, well,
how can it be? Those are two opposite things. So
if you keep it down the middle, that's the healthy place.
I was confused because they I thought the symptom had
to be one or the other. Either you are anxious

(18:22):
or you're not anxious, like but not that people that
could be a symptom of different people. Does that make sense?
What I'm saying you're talking about is black versus white,
which is all of the work you've done with outweigh
and the gray area. A lot of what I help
people do is move from all or nothing thinking to
the middle ground, which is the gray area. So that's
what you're saying, is to keep it down the middle.

(18:42):
So that, yeah, it makes perfect. So it's like you
want to have a little bit of worry in you,
I mean that's normal. You don't want to be completely
anxious and wearing all the time. But you also don't
want to be never worrying at all there because that's
not Both of those are unhealthy. Behaviors or symptoms. So
then I was like, oh, okay, keep it down in

(19:04):
the middle. So that's one thing I do like that
that I learned from my sweet Linda, Okay. And another
thing that I learned from Linda, and this is personal
to me, but I might speak to somebody else listening,
is that I am an eagle going to I can fly,
I can sore, I can do I can spread my

(19:25):
wings and I can fly, and there's a sun out there,
and that my future looks bright and I can do that.
So we worked on things to help me believe in
myself because yeah, I mean full disclosure, I did some
stuff that indicated that I my self worth is pretty low,

(19:45):
and I felt like even when we determined that, it
made me feel almost like a not a fraud. I
don't think I walk around with that. I have believe
in myself all the time, but I am doing things
or I'm out here in this space where people might
think that I have higher self forth than I do,

(20:07):
or I really do believe in myself. I do want
my listeners to believe in themselves and I want them
to feel empowered. But then here I am doing all
this hard work and realizing like, oh, so I kind
of had this moment of like really a reality check
of oh. But then I'm like, well, it really doesn't matter.
I'm not putting myself out. There is something else. But

(20:27):
I just thought if people were fly on the wall
right now watching me do this work, they almost be like,
I don't believe it. You're looking at me like I'm
saying something really crazy, Like you're you're giving me weird
therapist face, like you your faces. I mean, but does
that make sense what I'm saying, or now I feel

(20:48):
like what I'm saying is crazy. But what I feel
like is a lot of my listeners might be like, WHOA,
I would have never thought that Amy had low self
worth and and and I would look up at them
being the fly on the all, and I'd be like,
better believe it, Like I really, I did all this
experiential thing where she had the sheet and like all
these arrows and I filled stuff out and like I

(21:10):
walked on the path and then I ended and I
landed in the pain and the pain area was self worth,
and I wasn't to the next side, which is recovery.
And then I wasn't even off the sheet, which is
beyond recovery, which is in a different field. So like
she's like, we're in this box where we've got to
do a lot of work because for whatever reason, we

(21:30):
traced it back to my childhood and literally even some
teachers and different comments that were made to me that
I can remember specifically that made me feel as though
I was stupid. I don't even like using that word.
And even sometimes I say that out loud and I
don't mean it, but I'll do something and then I'll
be like, oh, this is stupid, and I want to
stop doing that because I don't want that narrative in

(21:52):
my head at all, even if I'm saying in a
joking manner, but like it's rooting from somewhere, and I
one have experiences as a child where I felt as
though I was not smart, and then that became my
story and I never felt smart, and then when I
went to college, I didn't know what to major in
because I didn't feel like I was going to amount

(22:13):
to anything, and I didn't have goals and I didn't
know what I wanted to do because I didn't think
I was going to do anything. I don't think that
this is bad at all. Because I think that being
a stay at home mom or being a housewife like
that is great if that is your life. I have
goals now, like I'm forty, and I have career goals now.
When I was eighteen, I was quoted in my high

(22:34):
school yearbook as the mask of me where I was
going to be in five or ten years or something.
And that's like this huge quote from Amy Moffatt that says, like,
I'm just going to be a stay at home wife
or something housewife or something. There's two things that I
want to pick out of that. What you're saying is
I didn't realize that I had any other options. There
are some people that that's their dream, and that's that

(22:56):
is awesome because that's their dream. But you said that
because I thought I was too stupid in your words,
too or your teacher's words to do anything else. Well,
they didn't say the words stupid to me, but it
made me feel that stupid. But yes, so thank you
for clarifying that, because I want to be sensitive to
the fact that I'm sure there are a number of
housewives or Satan wombs listening that is not what this

(23:18):
is about. Because I think that that is great I
think then you can use your time for a lot
of other really amazing things, like I don't know what
all you have your hand in, but it is. It
was because I didn't think I had options, because the
only option. That's like saying that's like kind of similar
when somebody says that they're going to work for the
family business because they think that's their only option to

(23:40):
or something like that, or it could be any career,
because that literally is because they think it's their only option.
So that's one part that The other part that I
think is important about that and about all the self
worth and saying all that stuff is because one of
the like pillars that I stand on as a therapist
is we can't heal anything that we're not acknowledging. We
can't change anything that we don't know is there or

(24:02):
that we were refused to acknowledge that is there. And
you can't work on your self worth and you can't
create more self worth if you don't ever realize that
you don't have any. And I think that what the
world tells us is we're not supposed to not have
self worth, but I don't know that's not true. We're
supposed to have self worth because we're not supposed to
not have it. We do all of these things to
make it look like we do, so then we can't

(24:23):
realize that we don't, so then we can't heal it.
That makes sense, Yeah, totally. So this is like huge
for you because I don't think you went through your
life thinking I don't have self worth, no, like in fact,
when that was like my real pain factor. It is
like we were doing it. It's like we were dissecting
me and kind of putting things on this sheet shooting almond,

(24:46):
like there was like arrows and it was like, Okay,
one thing that we dissected led us to the next thing,
and then we dissected that and it led us to
the next thing. We're Ultimately, once we got done dissecting everything,
we were able to conclude that it's self worth was
left in the pain box. And so I didn't know
that that was going to be the outcome, but when

(25:08):
we unpacked it all, it made sense. It made total sense.
Even and how I behave in relationships and that are
complete opposite. So I was talking to Mary about it
after I got home from the trip, and I think
we were downstairs like working on a puzzle or just talking.
And she was having tea and I was having coffee,
and you know, she was like, gosh, I was giving

(25:29):
you an example of sometimes the first thought that's in
my head because of something. And she was like, oh wow,
I think like the exact opposite. And I'm like that
was evidence right there, just how our brains filter things differently,
depict our screens are different depending on our life experiences.
And not that either one of us was right or wrong.
She wasn't saying like, oh it's better, although I do
think her way was better, but I think that whatever

(25:51):
filter that's going through for her is a little bit healthier,
maybe because of her upbringing or her exposure that maybe
some stuff she didn't encounter, whereas we may have other
things that cross differently. But for that particular example, I
do think her filter was healthier. And I need to
get to that point, and I think I can correct

(26:20):
me if I'm wrong on this. But just because my screen,
I filter it through one way and half for so long,
like if I put in the work, then my my
filter changes. Yeah, okay, I just wanted to have an
excess the point of the all the work, right, that's
the point of all the work. But I mean it's
not to say that that other filter though, still doesn't
show up. I think that because it's not like it's

(26:42):
totally eliminated. Yeah, I think that. How I how I
really frame that is I think of so we have
our screens, but I also think about those like automatic
reactions that we have, the ways that our brains just
go to. One thing I think of as like a river,
and how rivers are formed is you run water down them,
and you run water down them, and you run water
on them. The more water you run down the river,

(27:02):
the deeper the river is, the stronger it is. All
of that. Those are our screens because we've we've run
water down those our whole life. So our screens become
actual neuropathways in our brain. Well, the work is creating
a new river, So we're starting with nothing and we
run water down it. Every time we start to think
that way or we recognize the cool thing about our
brains is when we stop running water down that other

(27:25):
neural pathway that is not so helpful, the river dries up, right,
So then in our brains that neuropathway actually drives up.
If we don't use it, we don't need it, we
don't use it, so we're creating a new one, and
we also have the other one. But I think to
an extent, we're going to have like even the indention
in the ground where the water once was or something
like that, or there's gonna be some area where you

(27:45):
can see something once was there, even though if it's
not like the strong river that we used to run
down before, is that kind of like her forest metaphor? Yep,
I mean totally the exact same thing. And that's what
we were working on. And our intensive was creating the
new pathways. But yes, and it's not overnight. What we
were going to try to do was try to at

(28:06):
least get the floodgate open in a different direction. And
then yeah, the repetition and doing it over and over
and over and over again will hopefully get me going
in a different direction regarding multiple different things. I mean,
our brains are so complex. When my brain stops to

(28:27):
really think about our brains, I get an overload because
I've been studying it in a way to where even
not for myself, but some other stuff that's going on,
like looking at scans of trauma and seeing like in
in just even the technology that can show you, oh

(28:48):
see that yet all that yellow right there that's fear
and anxiety than this blue over here is like a
little bit of depression. Like it's just blows my mom.
Like what other smart, amazing brains have been able to
show us about our brains Because it's like a way
over my head for sure. But the beautiful and cool

(29:11):
part is is that it's it's multiple. The plasticity of
our brains is cool, Like just because it's one way
doesn't mean it has to be that way. Now there
are other components like addiction or something like that where
it's like, well, I don't know. I don't really think
that that part can change. I would say what you're

(29:31):
talking about is what is necessary for change is noticing
that there's hope. The brain is really really overwhelming to
a lot of people, and I think what you're saying
right now offers a lot of hope to people that
don't really understand and think that they're always gonna be
routed you here all the time. It's always been this way.
I've always been this way, And I said recently on Instagram,

(29:52):
I said something like, because it's always been this way
is not a good enough excuse to keep being that
way because we have hope improof out there that we
can shift and change things in our lives. We just
need to believe that there is hope and proof out there,
which is what you've been learning. But one thing I
brought back especially I was as I was doing re
entry and going back even to the Bobby Bones Show

(30:14):
and kind of feeling like and even here at the
podcast explaining I had to go away for a couple
of weeks, was to return with a story of hope.
Now I'm not totally to the other side yet, I'm
still in the thick of a lot of things. But

(30:34):
the eagle picture right the sun like me, the fact
that like I could look at that and I was
really visualizing it and picturing it, and like felt like
this warm feeling and like could smile, and like I
felt like my brain was processing that and I really
believed it. So I walked away with that hope that

(30:56):
I'm going to get there, and I'm going to continue
to put in the war work so that I do
get there. I do see where sometimes people may get
stuck because it is it can be a lot and
then maybe you're just like forget it. I need a break.
And that's where, you know, before I went and did
the work, that's when I was like deep diving into

(31:17):
Rachel Hollis like you would not believe, because she was
having her downward spiral situation and I was just looking
to get lost in anything because I didn't want to
face the music. And again I clarified this on the
Bobby Bones Show and my Instagram stories that it wasn't
that I was wanting to watch someone fall. It was
really that her whole story was fascinating to me and

(31:40):
everything that's unfolded in the last year that I really
didn't know all of the details too. I mean I
knew some of them, but I didn't know everything even
over the last let's call it since two thousand seventeen,
like her other books, like I hadn't read them, I
didn't know a lot of that. Linda called my Rachel
Hollis deep dive my medication. Well, what you're doing, which

(32:00):
is I think what a lot of people gravitate towards
in other ways too. But why we do get so
fascinated and stuff like that is because that is literally
helping you dissociate from your own things. So it is
your medication. It's like a central nervous system to pressing
like alcohol. And so that's another thing that is better
than alcohol, right, it is better than alcohol extent maybe,

(32:22):
but because I mean and I was able to I
had some boundaries, I was able to reel myself back in.
I wasn't totally lost. And sorry I keep interrupting you,
but that's why I said that one time, that like,
it's okay that people get lost in trash TV sometimes,
like I say, trash TV, but what I mean is housewives. Now,
if that's actually affecting your morals and values and how

(32:43):
you live your life and how you feel about yourself,
not so great. But if that's what you do to
help slow down your nervous system sometimes, then I don't
think that that has to be bad unless you take
it to an extreme, right, And that's where Linda, yes,
gave me that permission to do that. But I did think,
and I was like, and now this is hilarious that
I am at a intensive week for myself and somehow

(33:05):
I'm freaking talking about Rachel Hollis, Like I don't even understand,
Like I've never talked about or said the name Rachel
Hollis probably more than a few times in my life,
and in the last few weeks I have said it
every conversation. I mean five hundred million times. Obviously it's
an exaggeration, but I know Cat came over today and

(33:27):
I was like, did you see she released a statement
a message on her podcast? And then I made Cat
listen to it. And but that was my little medication association.
But really I wanted to see what she was going
to say. And if you haven't listened to it, I
encourage you to go listen to it. The whole thing
just confuses me, and I guess we'll just I still

(33:47):
want to wait and see. Jury still out on what's
what's happening with that. But she I did learn from that.
And you know we have platforms, right, you have a podcast.
I have a podcast them on a nationally syndicated radio
show that's in you know, a lot of markets. Sometimes
I don't even like to think how many and blisteners

(34:09):
call in and ask us advice. And I told Bobby
when I came back, I'm like, we need to start
prefacing that, like we are not experts, because sometimes people
call in and they want like real life advice and
like we don't know what is really going on in
their situation and be there. In five, Kate Kennedy she

(34:29):
had given some love her Yeah, she had given an
analogy about how sometimes when people give this life changing
advice and they're telling people this is how it should be,
and they're not a licensed type therapist and they don't
know the individuals circumstances. She gave an example of like
if someone was cheating, and then do you go tell

(34:51):
that other person that they're cheating? And it's like, well, okay,
you know, collectively, if you were to put this on Facebook,
people would be like, oh, hey, yeah, you gotta go
tell them. You gotta tell on them, Like your friend
can't be going through that. But she's like, well, but
is the person that that friend is with do they
have a safe relationship? Is there any type of abuse
going on? Like do you know if if you were
to unload that type of information, didn't that put that

(35:12):
person's life in danger? Like there's all these things we
don't think about at times that can be really really dangerous.
And I get sometimes people call into the show or
they email in for the fifth thing and they're asking
more of like truvia ice like what's your skincare routine
at night? And I'm like, um here something like that.

(35:33):
Or I have mentioned that if they want real hardcore advice,
I reach out to you because I know that I'm
going to give an answer from someone that this is
their field, their expertise. I host out way with Lisa
because she is a registered dietitian, and so I've got
my experts, like I've armed myself with people like I
can bring storytelling and experience, but like I can't ever

(35:56):
like yeah, and I can bring my life experience in
my opinion. But what I found interesting about Rachel was, yeah,
her lack of credentials and her basically like telling people
how to live or what to do, and so that
was interesting to me, and it just reminded me to
try to always set up that I'm not I don't
ever want to come across like I'm telling anybody what

(36:17):
to do and that I'm not an expert. It was
just a reminder for me publicly how to handle myself
because I know that I've spread toxic information before. I
know that before I had I was in recovery and
now in this new place with food and body image
Oh my gosh, my four Things podcast. When I first started,
basically the first thing might be like, Okay, you need

(36:38):
to wake up every morning and you need to have
hot lemon water or basically don't get out of bed.
I wasn't saying it to that extreme, but pretty much.
I mean sometimes people take what I say and they're like, Okay,
I gotta have hot limon water every morning, and it's
like no, And guess what, guys, I haven't had hot
lemon water in over a year, and I feel great.
But I mean, there was a time in my life
where I thought my day, I traveled to Haiti. I

(37:02):
went to other countries with lemons in my bag. I
don't even think you're supposed to take fruit through customs,
but I did it. I did it anyway because I
needed my little organic lemons with me in Haiti so
that I could wake up every morning and have my
hot lemon water or I was going to have a
bad day. That's the weight that lemon water. And that's

(37:25):
just one example of the mini toxic things that I did.
Now is having hot lemon water bad for you? No,
but it was like my everything, that's when it becomes bad.
I would like to add that even because you're right,
you have to be careful of who you're asking for advice.
And when we give advice, when we're not experts, we're
giving basically my experience, which is what you do. Now

(37:48):
you're like, based on my experiences what I do. Even
with your skin care, when you talk about your skins care,
you always say this is what works for me and
your skin. And I even say, like this, and my
expert is carry the National Beauty Girl, but she programmed
it to fit my skin, so your skin might be different. Also,
it may not fit your budget, Like I don't ever
want to be like, go buy this product because dad.

(38:11):
So I have a Q and a on you need
Therapy comes out every Wednesday, and I have people write
questions in and couch talk couch talk yes, and so
people will ask me questions and usually how I answer
them is through asking them questions because I don't know
them and I don't know their story. I don't know
the details. And so if it's a question like how

(38:31):
do I find a therapist, that's different. But like my
husband has been drinking multiple times a week, and I
don't know if I should tell them or not or
should I break up with? Questions like that are about
personal things, or my friend is struggling with this, how
should I approach it. I can't give solid advice because
I don't know all of the things that are around that.
And so even as a therapist with my clients, I

(38:54):
don't tell them what to do. A therapist doesn't give advice.
They help somebody figure out what they should do based
on their feelings in their life, and ultimately they have
to make the best decisions exactly. And so I think
that that's what I try. Now. Sometimes I do give
more detailed feedback. I really try to stay in the
lane of I'm not telling anybody what to do or
what not to trust me. And Linda was the same way,

(39:16):
and I wanted Linda to just tell me and tell
me what to do. I was like, Linda, just tell me, Linda,
and she's like, Amy, I think we're mapping it out
and I think you know what to do. And I'm like,
it's about empowering people to figure it out. And I
think when people like Rachel Hollis, it's less about empowering
and it becomes more about them becoming almost like god like,
where people just listen to anything they say without question.

(39:37):
And I never want to be that way as a therapist.
I always want people to question me because I don't
know everything. I don't know everything about my clients lives.
I don't know everything about your life. I know a
lot about my life. I'm the expert in my life,
but all of my clients and everybody else in the
world gets to be the expert of their life. And
I want to keep it that way. And I mean,
you see a therapist as well. And Linda told me,

(39:58):
she said, I will never see a therapist for myself
that doesn't go to a therapist themselves. That actually is
one of my things. If if you ask your therapist
and do you a therapy and they say no, runaway.
If they say what would be helpful about you knowing that?
Then that's okay if they're keeping a boundary. But if
they just blankets say like no, I don't need to
get therapy, then that's a sign that I don't know

(40:19):
your therapist. Kind of wacky, right, I mean that could
be I know that we do get messages being like
how do I know if I'm finding a good therapist?
That could be a question that you ask or if
you need a therapist that specializes in a particular maybe
you're looking for experiential, maybe you have a needing disorder.
There's different Like that's how I got linked up with
Cat was because she was on outweigh and you specialize

(40:41):
in that. But I mean you can probably meet with
a variety of different people. But there's therapists that kind
of have their their things, their things. There's things I
don't do too, yeah, because I mean I've tried to
talk to you about parenting stuff before and you're like,
I have no idea what to say. Can you talk
to somebody else? Please? Things? Um, okay, So back to

(41:02):
the simple pleasures, um finishing and I don't even think.
I think we got to number four, which was finishing
a really good book. Then that went to the self
help books and the blanket analogy, which led to the
new I mean, this is the rabbit hole we just
went down in number I think I said three watching
your favorite movie at to a simple pleasure that we
love is a nice dinner, which Cat and I just

(41:23):
had True Food Kitchen and that's so good. And oh
crumble cookies crumble without any Cat brought them at the end,
which if you have a True Food in your town,
you gotta go. Or if you're visiting Nashville or somewhere
in California or Austin, Texas, like those are places I've
been to True Food or New York. It's just so good.
And then Crumble Cookie Google and see if they have

(41:46):
one near you. And if your friend has a birthday
or they just got a job promotion, or they just
had a baby, order some Crumble cookie and it's just
a day and you want a cookie because yes, well,
I'm saying that they're good because they'll liver warm, just
like TIFFs treats. Like that's another good one. If you
don't have Crumble near you, I love sending warm TIFFs treats,

(42:06):
like there's something about cookies. Whenever my dad died, we
got tons of flowers, which is nice, thank you. My
house looked like a funeral home. I mean, Mary and
I were kind of laughing at my sister because I'm
not like the biggest flower person in the world, but
I mean I get it, like people are being nice
like some flowers, and we were just laughing, like more
flowers just derived or we would leave to go run

(42:27):
an errand and come back and there would be like
more flowers on the porch, which I think is like,
can you guys send more crumble cookie? It's thoughtful you
and Lesa sent me some bath stuff and some tea,
which I thought was thoughtful, And then I think flowers
are great. I do not want to come across as
though I'm not grateful at all, So I'm going to
say this one more time, just so that I feel better.
The flowers were so thoughtful and sweet and kind, but

(42:48):
it was it just was like, yeah, I felt like
a just a lot. But then I had a couple
of people that sent Jenny's ice cream, and I thought
that that was amazing and something I would have never
thought of. And so now I have that in my
back pocket. Of I mean, if you go downstairs in
my freezer right now, it's full of Jenny's little pint size,
like they just sent a variety of flavors. And that

(43:10):
came in handy because there were some days where we
were all me and my siblings were sitting around and
we were like, let's see it some ice cream and Stashira,
my daughter, she's so cute. She must have seen this
on a TV show somewhere or whatever, and she's like, yeah, mom, listen,
whenever you all get said, you just go. You get
your own pint and then you take it to the
couch with a spoon and you sit there and you
watch TV and you eat your feelings. And like I

(43:32):
just thought, I was like, yes, yes, you got this
that you got it down, Like that's so accurate and
that's what I want to do. And thank you for
giving me that permission. Child. But I thought that that
was smart. So now I have that in my back
pocket of if I've got a friend going through something hard,
maybe yeah, my go to would maybe be too sin Flowers,

(43:52):
but now I might send Jenny's ice cream or Bluebell
or maybe Crumble cookies. But yeah, there was something comforting
about the whole ice cream thing, I will say. And Jenny's,
which I have not tried this yet, but they came
out with a new Dolly parton flavor and it's like
strawberry and pretzels or something. You're making a face that
don't know that I like strawberry ice cream. Well, I

(44:13):
don't be there, but I like and ice cream would
be good salty and sweet. I do like that combination. Okay,
so now I think we're going to make it through
the list. I have the number one thing that is
our simple pleasure here in America, and it's listening to
your favorite songs. Simple pleasure check. Have you been doing that?
I'm not not really now I've been listening to books.

(44:35):
Here's something I do need to process a little bit more.
My favorite song in the whole world is Amarillo by
Morning by George Strait. And when my my dad was
on life support, my sister made a playlist and it
was twenty five random songs like so they were on shuffle,
so any song could be playing at any moment. We
did not pick which song was going to play. Win

(44:56):
And we're laying there with my dad and the doctor
had started to remove him from life support. It was
a decision we had to make. We could have kept
him alive for days. He wouldn't want that, so we
had to make that tough decision after already keeping him
on it for days. And me and my sister and
my half brother and my half sister and were laying
around him and we're just waiting for him to take

(45:16):
his last breath. We didn't know if it would take,
you know, a minute or three hours, we didn't know,
but ended up taking less than five minutes. And one
of the last full song that my dad heard was
Amarilla by Morning, And of course we're laying there with
him and that song came on and we all are
just like we've all danced with him to that song.

(45:38):
He loved George straight too, and that song is so
special to me, and now when I hear it, I
can't help but get crazy emotional because that song played
in its entirety and then the next song came on
and it didn't even play for that long, and the
nurse came in and said, hey, I just wanted to
all to know he's already taken his final breath, and

(45:59):
so I just said, well, what time did he What
time was that? And then we did the math and
it was like after the George Strait song ended, and
so we all had this, you know, picture in our
head of him too, stepping his way into heaven. But
that was my favorite song. And now I don't know
what do I do. I need to do some brain
spotting around Amarilla by Morning or something. We can still

(46:20):
be your favorite song. But I mean, I used to
want to listen to it. It It made me feel good
and now I listened to it. Well, I mean I
I haven't, but if it did come on because we
still had the playlist going while we stall had family
in town. After we came home and my sister just
put everything on Alexa, which reminds me of there was
a Willie Nelson song in the playlist called roll Me
Up and Smoke Me when I Die, and my dad

(46:42):
loved Willie Nelson, and you know kids, they pay attention
to everything and out of nowhere. One day, so she
was like, hey, Mom, when I die, I want you
to roll me up and smoke me. And I was like,
what where did you learn that? What are kids at
school talking about? Like I'm thinking like and then a
light bulb went off and I'm like, oh my gosh,

(47:03):
she heard the Willie Nelson song rolled Me Up and
spot Me when I Die. But anyway, Amarilla by morning
also would come on and I would get really, really
really emotional, and so I don't know what to do
to get back to where that is a simple pleasure
for me in life would be listening to that song.
I think that is like the picture of grief work though,

(47:23):
where it's like this up and down, backwards forwards, encircles
kind of thing where right now, that song reminds you
of him taking his last breath, and that's really really
emotional in a sad way, and maybe that might always
be sad, but as you move through your grief that
at one point that could have a different feeling for you.
You could have a different interpretation and it could be
an exciting thing of like, oh, this reminds me of

(47:45):
my dad walking into heaven. Oh okay, I hadn't thought
of that prospective time. It does make me think of
something else I learned from Linda, though, let's talk. It's
that grief never ends, and I think sometimes we feel
as though it's some point we're not going to grief,
and it's like, oh, it's been long enough, why am
I still doing this? And so Linda gave me that

(48:08):
permission too, because a lot of stuff resurfaced. Being with
my mom for her final breath. I feel lucky I
was by her side for that, and then being by
my dad's side for his final breath, but a lot
of things resurfaced and I thought, gosh, why am I
dealing with mom stuff now when I'm to be dealing
with dad, and she's like, you're not ever going to

(48:30):
stop grieving your mother, and like do you want to know?
But I mean, I guess we just feel as though,
sure I do, so maybe if anybody else out there
has felt that way before about their grief, like gosh,
why am I not in a better place? I mean, sure,
that might mean there is some work you could do
to get in a better place, But it doesn't mean

(48:52):
that the grief is ever going to go away, or
it might not. It might hit you one year when
you haven't cried about it in three years, and then boom,
you're balling crying. There's nothing wrong with that. I think that,
and I hear that all the time of like I
should be over this by now, or when is this
going to end, or any of that. I don't think that,
especially when it comes to death, we're ever going to
look back and be like I'm I'm finally okay and

(49:14):
over that this person is no longer in my life.
That's a weird thing to think that we would ever feel.
And I think that one of the things that has
gotten us in that mode of thinking that there should
be an ending is the stages of grief becoming a
really well known thing. And the truth is a stage
of grief, if you are familiar with them, have been
very misinterpreted by the public. They're not like a a ladder.

(49:36):
You climb and then you get to the top. It's
all over the place. And does everybody have all five stages? No,
and they've actually added a stage. I thinks burn At
Brown had um one of the people that developed the
stages on her podcast Pretty Sure Unlocking Us, and he
talked about the sixth stage that he added, and it
was finding meaning. And one thing is, I don't think

(49:59):
everybody moves through all six And the other thing is
we might get to the sixth stage and then go
back to the second one three days later, or a
month later, or three years later. And so everybody's process
looks different. Going back to what we talked to before,
because of our different experiences and what we've been through
in our screens. There you go America's Favorite Simple Pleasures.
We went through Alton, and it took us. I don't

(50:19):
even know how long it's And we were going to
do four things, guys, but that this one was supposed
to be one of the things, and I had four
other topics here for us to get into. But that's
a wrap. So thanks for listening. Welcome to four Things
with Amy Brown. But sometimes we just spend so long

(50:40):
on the first thing that it's the one thing, which
I mean is totally fine. That's another thing. It's like
sometimes I feel like I've built these how it's supposed
to be, and then I don't really like go with
the flow very well. I try to act like I'm breezy.
I'm breezy, it's fine, but then I'm really not at times,

(51:00):
and then I can be really hard on myself, and
then you know, some days I just need to be like,
you know what. This is fourth ONEm with Amy Brown,
but like follow me here. It's fine. Cats here, we're
just talking and I feel like, yeah, we covered a
lot of a lot of things. So thank you cat
for joining me, and thank you listeners for tuning in.

(51:21):
For people still stay tuning in. I oh my gosh,
it's so funny. I literally was talking on my podcast.
I was like, thanks for tuning in, and I was like,
you're not tuning in because this is a podcast on
your phone. Don't you tune into a radio? What is
tuning in? Yeah? I know, I'm on a radio show
and I don't streaming, say I don't know. Yeah, thanks

(51:43):
for downloading. Maybe thanks for subscribing. That's the real thank you.
So subscribe. Listen if you're listening to this right now.
Subscribe to four Things with Amy Brown if you haven't already,
but maybe you are if you're listening. But also go
subscribe to cats, which is unique therapy. Maybe right, and
we're you. I know this is a big ask because
it's it's time consuming. It's not lost on me that

(52:04):
someone takes a few minutes out of their day. Even
though it's just a few minutes, it's still your precious time.
But go ahead and do it. And then you can
go over to Outweigh and subscribe to the Eating Disort
of podcasts at Lisa and I host about that Gray Area,
and rate and review if you want to. And then
Lisa also has a podcast called The Truth Eist Life,

(52:27):
which is also on my network, and so you can
go find that she's got a lot of awesome episodes,
and you can subscribe and rate and review, and you'll
be a part of our little club. I don't know
what you said, club, but I often forget to remind
people to do that, And I really feel like if
I were to just ask people, they would do it.
And then I listened to Oprah Super Soul Sunday and

(52:49):
Oprah is not shy about asking people to go rate
and review, and I'm like, oh, you're Oprah, you don't
need people to do that, but look at you still asking.
So if Oprah can do it, I can do it.
And I can ask you to write in review and subscribe.
And then I guess I'll just quickly say tomorrow is April.
That's Friday. You're listening to this on the twenty nine

(53:11):
if you listen to the day that comes out, And
I think this weekend, like and like May one is
the cut off for Mother's Day shopping if you are
looking to get anything for things or from a spois
and the cute Mother's Day stuff that we've released, like
the one that says I need a nap or any
cool mom items or raise them kind, which the raise

(53:33):
them kind is in my handwriting, which is super fun
to see. I worked really hard on that. I mean
is how I write, but I mean I was like
really being like extra careful to make sure that it
looked cute for the sweatshirts. So I'm really happy with
how it turned out. So go check out any of
that if you have some Mother's Day shopping to do.

(53:54):
I just wanted to remind you that this is the
cut off and everything that we have up is supporting
object Meta Share and their maternity center there in Haiti,
specifically a new ambulance fund. They need a new ambulance
to transport pregnant mothers and new moms back and forth
to the clinic. So we want to help contribute towards

(54:15):
the ambulance goal, which in Haiti things are just always
more expensive there, so it's a lot, but we want
to contribute and we're able to do that if you'll support,
and that's you supporting maybe by maybe shopping if you can,
or maybe just spreading the word. Maybe you don't have
anybody to shop for, but you know of someone that's
looking to find something unique and special and maybe a

(54:37):
gift that gives back. You can spread the word about
SPLA and what we do and the different gift options
that we have. I mean not even just the cool
mom all the new pullovers and shirts that we have,
but we have our star necklace, we have our Gratitude Journal.
We have our four Things totes. All of those are
great Mother's Day gifts as well, and you can just
go to the shop forward dot com slash mom M

(55:02):
O M mom. Okay cat, thanks for coming on, and
I'm I'm back. I'm back in business, so I will
see you all on Tuesday for a fifth thing all right, bye,