August 23, 2025 • 23 mins
On this episode of What’s God Got To Do With It?, we’re diving into another Ask the God Pod! In this episode, we tackle a question that weighs heavily on many hearts: Forgiveness. Leanne welcomes back Ketric Newell & Scott Stephensdives as they dive deep into the question of whether God forgives all sins, even the ones we knowingly committed.
Exploring different perspectives and drawing on scripture, the episode unpacks the power of true remorse and God's boundless love. Whether you're wrestling with past mistakes or simply seeking reassurance, this episode offers comfort and clarity on the path to forgiveness.
HOST: Leanne Ellington // StresslessEating.com // @leanneellington
GUEST: Ketric Newell & Scott Stephens
To learn more about Leanne, head over to www.LeanneEllington.com, and to share your thoughts, questions, feedback, or guest suggestions instantly, head on over to www.WhatsGodGotToDoWithIt.com.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
If you want to go on a journey. If you're skeptical,
don't worry. Not here to preach.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm gonna keep the clean and talk to me and
recall where faith needs stops nature, get in touch with
your creator with a baking love and joke. She even
speaks Hebrew. What's done?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
What's this?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
We'll send the talking transformation, What's stop?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Down? Hey, hey, and welcome back to What's God got
to do with It? We are here for the very
first episode of a recurring series called Ask the Godpod,
where you listeners have sent in amazing questions, letting us
know what you're curious about, what you're wondering about, where
you feel stuck or stumbling. So I'm here with two
(01:04):
members of my spiritual advisory committee, Scott and Ketric, who
you've heard before on previous episodes. Scott was here for
our ridiculously Hopeful episode with his wife Malia, and then
Ketric was here from Self Reliance to God's Guidance that episode.
So we'll link those in the show notes.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
But welcome back, guys. Glad to have you here, Thanks
for having us. Yes, yes, top of the morning to you.
I love it.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Well, we're going to go ahead and dive on in
with our first question from Karen, and Karen wrote in
is God going to forgive all of our sins, even
the ones we knew were wrong when we were doing them,
if we are truly sorry for them? Is God going
to forgive all of our sins? So? Who wants to
(01:52):
kick us off with answering Karen.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
It's all depending upon the relationship with Jesus and what
we believe of coming into that real life relationship with him.
When Jesus died on the cross, he died for all
of our sins, and so it's in that that we're
covered by his blood. He didn't die for some, he
didn't die for half. He died for all. And as
long as we are someone who has received that from him,
(02:15):
what he did on the cross be applied to our life,
then I see that as all sins are forgiven. Obviously
there's the verse of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, but
that is more in my opinion, that is me saying
I don't want what you have. So that's me choosing
to reject the spirit. That's me choosing to say you
(02:35):
have given something to me, I choose not to want
it because God wouldn't want to give us something that
we don't want to take on. And so that's the
way that I see some of that. And maybe that's
what she's talking about when she says all of my sins.
I'm not sure, but obviously there's that part of it,
you know.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
And obviously, Karen, you're not here to tell us specifically
what you mean, but I can only imagine that it's like, oh, well,
God will forgive their sins, but my sins are way
deeper or more, you know, I'm more broken than somebody else,
you know. So I think if you were to speak
to that specifically, would your answer change.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
It wouldn't change in that at all, because I think
sometimes it's easier for us to believe it's possible for
someone else than it is for ourselves, because we know
ourselves inside and out. The great thing is is that
God knows us better than we know ourselves. So it
says there's nothing hidden from God, and some people will
be like, oh, that's scary. It's actually freeing because there's
nothing you've done that He has not seen, and seeing it,
(03:29):
he then addressed it on the cross. So when Jesus
died on the cross, he took on, yes, all of
our sin, but he first had to see it and
experience it. So Jesus felt it all, experienced it all,
and he didn't He didn't miss anything, even the little
things in the corner that you wish no one else
could hear.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
He saw it all.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
And that's a really good thing because he still then
accepted us when we accept his son.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
When I first found God and started a relationship, I
had met a lot of people that had previously existing
relationships with God. They were afraid that he was mad
at them, or that he wouldn't forgive them, or he
was a shame filled you know, you know, the god
fearing type of God right versus. I got introduced to
the grace gospel. My favorite definition of grace is that
(04:13):
unconditional love and unconditional acceptance even when you don't think
you deserve it, That even if kind of love, like
even if you're doing this or even when you're not
doing this right. He doesn't have this list in my beliefs.
He doesn't have this list of like, well, that's forgivable,
but like when you do that, that's not forgivable. But
the thing that really came up for me too, and
I experienced this firsthand. Was like, what's the difference between
(04:37):
being forgiven of all my sins and not having to
carry that weight in that burden versus my human desire
to feel like now I have this permission slip to
just go do whatever I want to do because I'm forgiven.
And that was one of the questions and distinctions that
came up for me, is like, it's not this unwritten
permission slip to just go do whatever you want because
Jesus says, and then go sin.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
No more, you know.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
And to me that was it's like this desire to
be forgiven, but also a recommitment to do all you
can do to not enter into that sinly experience again
if sinlely is a word that I may have just
made up, But so that's the big distinctions that are
coming up for me, Like it's the even if kind
of love and that even when you do this and
don't think you're forgivable kind of forgiveness and love and acceptance.
(05:22):
But it's also not this like open ended permission slip
to just go do whatever you want because you think like, oh,
God will forgive me anyways. At least that's my perception.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
There's a psalm that says, farther than from a sunrise
to a sunset, that's how far you've removed our guilt
from us. And when you imagine experiencing guilt, which we
all do or have, it's gone, like the reality. You
may feel it. There are consequences to sin, but the
(05:50):
way that God views us, our position is that the
guilt is gone. Leanne knows this. Jewish people understand that
there was a lamb, I know what they called it,
but they would put the blood on the lamb, and
the lamb took that guilt and that shame. Well, Jesus
was a picture of the ultimate lamb. It's not like
(06:12):
the Jews had to do it every so often. It
was a one time thing. Does that mean we're all forgiven?
It could? It means if you accept this, if you
accept the invitation from Jesus. Once you do that, you're clear.
You know the only way God sees you from then
on is as Jesus, which is very hard to believe.
There's a verse in John that says he must increase
(06:34):
and I must decrease. And so what I found is
moving closer to the Lord, like where I feel God's
presence after I've sinned, and where I see growth in
my life is when I'm focusing more on Jesus and
less on myself.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
And I think if you.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Grow up religious, the focus is generally on you and
you actually hear that verse like my sin is increasing
and his grace is decreasing. But when you actually look
at Jesus, it's he must increase. The grace that he
wants to give you is beyond anything you can imagine.
The more you focus on that, the less you focus
(07:16):
on yourself, the more freedom you live in daily, the
more you grow like He's doing it all. It's very
hard to believe, but it starts with believing. Just like
when you became a Christ, Foller, it's you believed in Jesus.
You believed he took your guilt and shame. Now you
need to believe that you are the righteousness of Christ.
You are right with God at all times. And the
(07:36):
more you focus on that, the less you will sin.
It's just a natural byproduct of right believing.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
And I want to just you know, share Karen and
anyone who is also asking these same questions. I think
sometimes it's easy to compare the relationship with God to
a relationship with other humans, right, And sometimes maybe we've
all had those relationships with a person, maybe it's a parent,
maybe it's a sibling, a boss, whatever it is, where
it's like, oh, we're in their good graces when we're
like air quotes, being perfect, or when we're doing everything
(08:04):
that we air quotes should be doing right. And to me,
that's not the relationship with God. And so when we
focus more on the relationship more than the rules and
the regulations that we think we're supposed to uphold when
it comes to having a relationship with God. And again
coming back to that word relationship, you know, to me,
that is why i need Jesus right, because I'm not
going to be perfect.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
I am going to sin.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
I'm a human, right, But having that place to just
come down on my knees and surrender and be like, hey,
I know I'm not perfect.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
This is why I need you, right.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
And that's to me what comes up and completes this
concept of a relationship versus more of like a roles
and rules and the kind of the legalism that I
think I grew up with in Judaism.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Right.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
So I'm curious to hear you know y'all's perspective to
share how this comes into play when it comes to
this relationship role with God and with Jesus.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
I don't know who said it, someone said that rules
of that relationship equal rebellion, and I think a lot
of that's true is that we've learned the right rules
to do, and then those rules that become performance, and
then your performance then determines how close or how far.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
You are from God. And so it's that part.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Of it that if I told you in my relationship
my wife, if I said to you that, well, I
do these things because that's my responsibility, that's an okay thing.
That's an okay motivation, right Like I if I do
these things so that I won't get punished like as
a little kid, the external is an okay motivation. But
(09:37):
when it comes internal of I don't want to break
my connection with you, Yeah, that's a whole other level
of maturity is I want to be as close as
I can to you, and anytime that I feel distant
from you, I want to come back to you. That's
a lot of things that we've been learning about. It's
the difference in a relationship or a covenant relationship, the
(09:59):
covenant relationlationship says I'll do anything in my power to
stay connected to you, okay, because in connection is where
I'm going to be the greatest me and I can
experience the greatest of what He has for me right
of who he is.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
And so that's the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
That's a whole another that's internal, that's an internal motivation.
If I'm still spanking my son at twenty, right, there's
a problem because he's only doing what I want him
to do because of punishment. And so many people can
live until they're sixty thinking that God's got there going
to spank them and they're still living from that. But
(10:39):
that's not intimacy. Intimacy is I want to stay connected
to you, and I will do whatever it takes to
do that. That's the difference in Jesus being your savior
and being your Lord Savior is he gave me some benefits,
and that's why I'm in this relationship. I can be
in relationships with other people and get benefits from with benefits.
(11:00):
We know the story, right, it's because it's a one
sided deal to get me out of things. But it
has nothing to do with intimacy. It's what I can
take from the relationship. But real intimacy is when I
can say, how can I give to you right in return?
And when that happens, there's a history that you create
(11:21):
with the Lord that is actually intimacy, and everything you
long for is found in that. Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
And just one little gold and nugget that you said
that I really wanted to reiterate to anyone who is
struggling with this. Just one little golden nuggat that you
said that I really wanted to reiterate to anyone who
is struggling with this is there's a maturity in a
(11:50):
relationship that takes place and giving yourself permission to not
feel like you're doing you have to do it all
right right away. That's why we have a loving God
that forgives us. You know, there is a journey. It's
it's a never ending process. It's never this like, oh,
I've mastered my life and I've mastered my relationship with God,
so like it's a one and done. It's constantly evolving,
and that's why we need him.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
The picture that came to mind as we're talking about relationship,
and I think what Leanne does a great job of
is helping us understand. It's an experience with Jesus, and
we experience him through a lot of different ways, prayer,
the word communion with each other. But the picture I
got was, imagine, Karen, when you're walking into your office,
(12:32):
if every time you walk through that door there's broken glass,
and like the way that you have to enter your office,
it's a tough way to start your day. Imagine if
your house, every time you walk through your house there's
just broken glass. When you're focused on stopping from sinning,
right when you're focused on the sin, it's like everywhere
you enter there's broken glass and you just have to
(12:54):
tiptoe around. And there's a story where one of Jesus'
disciples sees Jesus from the boat and starts walking on water.
It's wild and the reason he's able to walk on
water is because his focus is on Jesus, it's not
on himself. And so the great revelation is as you mature,
(13:16):
it's your focus becomes more about Jesus, and then you
see him and the way he sees you. And if
you don't know how he sees you, start reading just
the moments that Jesus had for people start asking Jesus,
how do you see me? And what will happen is
you'll walk in your office or you're walk in your
(13:36):
house and you will feel like you're walking on water.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
I love this, such a powerful conversation. So just before
we end, I'd love to touch on this little specific
piece of Karen's question where she said, even the sins
when we knew we were wrong doing them and we're
truly sorry for them. So I think, I mean, and
I totally get what you're saying, Karen, When we know
we're doing something air quotes wrong, it feels even worse
than if we accidentally stumble upon sin. Right, So I'll
(14:01):
just give some examples of you know, the clients that
I work with there, like Leanne, I just had, you know,
a binge again, and I'm trying to be free of this,
right anyone who you know? You know, I've heard testimonies
of people who have had affairs and drug users, and
you know, we we've heard we all know somebody who's
been accused of something and gone to jail for something,
you know, big sins that of course, at one point
in time, they thought they weren't able to be forgiven
(14:23):
and found found the Lord. And again this is not
a permission slip to go do wrong. But to me,
it's like the intent shaping the content, like when like
when something happens and you feel out of control. To me,
it's all about like who do you become after that?
Like do you go back to Jesus? Do you have
a compass to come back to? So I think oftentimes
we get really caught up in the sin itself and
(14:43):
then we self abandon or we self reject, and then
we become even closer to the sin and farther away
from God. And so to me it's about like, Okay,
this just happened, and I don't have to like it, right,
And yes I'm consciously aware of it. Does that mean
that it's even worse? No, it's like now what who
do I want to become? And that's why to me,
I need God?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Right?
Speaker 3 (15:03):
So, could you guys speak into like what happens when
you're consciously sinning and you've like said I never want
to do this again or I should know better, but
you see it happening again because it maybe feels like
you're out of control. Maybe it's a compulsion, maybe it's
an addiction. I think sometimes that might feel harder for
us when we think we should know better.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
You know, this is so countercultural to the way that
we're trained as Americans, like like fix your stuff right,
you know, like you need to pull your bootstraps up
and get better.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Yeah, just will your way through it, like you're supposed to.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
The people that Leanne helps, they've that's where they've all been,
That's how they think. And she knows we all know.
It doesn't work, whether you're you're trying to like lose
weight or quit a habit, like, it doesn't work. So
the the internal leads to the external and the wildest
prayer I've found a prey and it sounds it sounds
so opposite. Even when you're in that sin, you're intentionally
(15:58):
doing that you can't stop doing, is Lord, I can't,
but you can't. So good I can't, but you can.
Like when Jesus died, it wasn't yesterday, and it wasn't tomorrow.
It was like two thousand years ago, but God, in
his grace covered every sin, past, president and future in
that moment. He covered it all.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
I don't know if she's.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Asking how do I stop? Right? But I think there's
an understanding like I still sin sometimes intentionally. Is that covered?
And once again it's your focus on Jesus and the truth,
which is he says it's from sunset to sunrises. That's
how far apart it is. That's the way he sees you.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
When I first came a relationship with the Lord, I
didn't understand the renewal process because I was told tewon corinthing,
it is five seventeen. Therefore you're in Christ, your new creation,
the oldest gonne the news coming. I was like, thank
you Jesus, the old left. Yeah, Like I mean, I
had the moment, you know, I cried when up front
did the thing said yes to Jesus. I was like,
this is awesome, Like, dude, it's gone.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I can tell it's gone right now, nothing you know
getting me.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
I'm bulletproof, right And then I go home and I
realized I packed that stuff up and it showed back
up my front doorstep three weeks later, and I was like,
hold up, I read the verse. I know the verse,
the old is gone, the news come, what's wrong?
Speaker 1 (17:17):
And so what I do?
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Well my Baptist self right, because that's where I grew
up in it was the Baptist world. I rededicated my rededication.
I did that about nine times. I gave myself to
the ministry. I did all the things like I did, baptize,
all the stuff.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
And I'm like, I'm still not there.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
I'm not there, and I never understood the renewal process.
Salvation happens in an instant. Sanctification is a process. Glorification
is what we get on the other side when we're perfect. Okay,
Salvation is I get it all. Sanctification is I'm learning
(17:52):
to walk in the new me that I don't know
that I have yet. So Romans twelve to two, be
ye transformed, get transformed, be transformed by the renewing of
my mind. So I've got all Jesus, his whole spirit
lives in me. The same spirit the regions from the
dead lives inside of me. That's not the problem. The
problem is not the spirit that lives in me, because
(18:13):
it's complete, whole and pure, all of it. The same
one that live in Jesus lives in me. Okay, then
what's the problem. It's the soul. My soul's made up
my mind, my will, and my emotions. How do I
renew my soul then, because that's the problem. It's through
the word. If I can get the word. It's not
my opinions, not my past, not what someone else has
said that's going to set me free. It's his truth
that sets us free. It's the only thing that frees us.
(18:35):
It's not that we're not free. It's not that we
need more from out here to get in here.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
It's we have all of it in us.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
We need to renew our minds so that what's in
us will flow from us. And when you do that,
that's where you find the freedom that's always been there.
It just hasn't manifested itself in your life because there's
still things in your own mind that's been clogging the
things to come forth. Don't run after Jesus and try
to get more of it.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
You got him. When you know you got him, it matters.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I'm at the age now where sometimes I'll be looking
for my keys and they're my hand. Until I know
they're my hand and acknowledge I have them in my hand,
I can now go drive my jeep and do what
it's meant to do. Some of you have the keys
in your hand and have no idea, but you need
to understand the same exact spirit there is Jesus Christ,
the dead man to life lives in you. When you
(19:25):
get that understanding, now you don't have to run after
try to get more.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
You can just live from what you already are.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
So so good. Wow, what a great question. I'm so
glad that you asked this, Karen, because it led to
this powerful conversation. And one thing I just want to,
you know, kind of rap with is you know, Karen
and anyone who's listening, because I know that you are
speaking into all of our hearts when you ask this,
just keep coming back to him like that's it. Like,
just keep running back. You fall down, keep running back.
(19:54):
You feel like you've sinned, Keep running back. You don't
know if you've sinned, but you're afraid you did. Keep
coming back. It is about this never ending relationship because
that's the opposite of what we mostly do when we
sin We run away.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
I'm gonna mess this up and I'm gonna try to
say it. So get as quick back to Jesus as
you can. And in your own mind, he's already there,
so it's not like he's walking away or he's disconnected.
He's there. But in your own mind, get back to
him as quick as possible, because the distance you leave
is the where the enemy's going to try to steal
things from you that's already yours and tell you things
(20:27):
it's not true. Because how many times in my own
struggles and my own show is in the past with pornography,
the moments that I let three weeks go by and go,
oh God, when I'm serious, I'm going to come back
to you. That whole three weeks the enemy just pounded
me and beat me up with lies that were there.
The last thing God says to Adam and Eve when
they're in the garden he made them in Genesis two
(20:49):
twenty five is that they were naked and they felt
no shame. When you feel shame, I don't mean guilt.
I feel bad about what I did, but that I
am what I did. When you feel that I am
this thing, I am dirty, I am that thing I'm
going back to. That is the toxic shame in therapy world.
But I'm talking about that shame that is not the
(21:11):
voice of God. He is not the one wanting you
to run from him. He knows that he is the
answer to your problem. It's running to him. Last thing,
there's a difference in condemnation and conviction. Condemnation says I
need to run from God. Conviction says I need to
run to God because he's the answer to my problem
(21:31):
and the one that's when I need help. So that's
the difference in those two things.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Yeah, so be convicted but not condemned. That is such
a powerful distinction. I'm so glad that this all came up. Karen,
Thank you so much for asking this question. We are
going to end this episode of Ask the God Pod,
but we will be back for more, so see you
next time. Bye. We'll be back with more What's God
Got to Do with It? But in the meantime, I
(21:58):
would definitely love to hear from you, So just tell
me where you are in your story or maybe what
questions you have, like where do you feel you need
clarity or support or wisdom in your own journey. I
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and scroll down to the form to share your thoughts,
(22:18):
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Speaker 1 (22:20):
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Speaker 1 (22:41):
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Speaker 3 (22:43):
It really means so much. What's God Got to Do
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Speaker 2 (22:52):
It's written and hosted by.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Me Leanne Ellington, Executive produced by Elizabeth Fozzio, post production
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If you want to go on a journey. If you're skeptical,
don't worry. Not here to preach.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm gonna keep the clean and talk to me and
recall where faith needs stops nature, get in touch with
your creator with a baking love and joke. She even
speaks Hebrew. What's done?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
What's this?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
We'll send the talking transformation, What's stop?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Down? Hey, hey, and welcome back to What's God got
to do with It? We are here for the very
first episode of a recurring series called Ask the Godpod,
where you listeners have sent in amazing questions, letting us
know what you're curious about, what you're wondering about, where
you feel stuck or stumbling. So I'm here with two
(01:04):
members of my spiritual advisory committee, Scott and Ketric, who
you've heard before on previous episodes. Scott was here for
our ridiculously Hopeful episode with his wife Malia, and then
Ketric was here from Self Reliance to God's Guidance that episode.
So we'll link those in the show notes.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
But welcome back, guys. Glad to have you here, Thanks
for having us. Yes, yes, top of the morning to you.
I love it.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Well, we're going to go ahead and dive on in
with our first question from Karen, and Karen wrote in
is God going to forgive all of our sins, even
the ones we knew were wrong when we were doing them,
if we are truly sorry for them? Is God going
to forgive all of our sins? So? Who wants to
(01:52):
kick us off with answering Karen.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
It's all depending upon the relationship with Jesus and what
we believe of coming into that real life relationship with him.
When Jesus died on the cross, he died for all
of our sins, and so it's in that that we're
covered by his blood. He didn't die for some, he
didn't die for half. He died for all. And as
long as we are someone who has received that from him,
(02:15):
what he did on the cross be applied to our life,
then I see that as all sins are forgiven. Obviously
there's the verse of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, but
that is more in my opinion, that is me saying
I don't want what you have. So that's me choosing
to reject the spirit. That's me choosing to say you
(02:35):
have given something to me, I choose not to want
it because God wouldn't want to give us something that
we don't want to take on. And so that's the
way that I see some of that. And maybe that's
what she's talking about when she says all of my sins.
I'm not sure, but obviously there's that part of it,
you know.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
And obviously, Karen, you're not here to tell us specifically
what you mean, but I can only imagine that it's like, oh, well,
God will forgive their sins, but my sins are way
deeper or more, you know, I'm more broken than somebody else,
you know. So I think if you were to speak
to that specifically, would your answer change.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
It wouldn't change in that at all, because I think
sometimes it's easier for us to believe it's possible for
someone else than it is for ourselves, because we know
ourselves inside and out. The great thing is is that
God knows us better than we know ourselves. So it
says there's nothing hidden from God, and some people will
be like, oh, that's scary. It's actually freeing because there's
nothing you've done that He has not seen, and seeing it,
(03:29):
he then addressed it on the cross. So when Jesus
died on the cross, he took on, yes, all of
our sin, but he first had to see it and
experience it. So Jesus felt it all, experienced it all,
and he didn't He didn't miss anything, even the little
things in the corner that you wish no one else
could hear.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
He saw it all.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
And that's a really good thing because he still then
accepted us when we accept his son.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
When I first found God and started a relationship, I
had met a lot of people that had previously existing
relationships with God. They were afraid that he was mad
at them, or that he wouldn't forgive them, or he
was a shame filled you know, you know, the god
fearing type of God right versus. I got introduced to
the grace gospel. My favorite definition of grace is that
(04:13):
unconditional love and unconditional acceptance even when you don't think
you deserve it, That even if kind of love, like
even if you're doing this or even when you're not
doing this right. He doesn't have this list in my beliefs.
He doesn't have this list of like, well, that's forgivable,
but like when you do that, that's not forgivable. But
the thing that really came up for me too, and
I experienced this firsthand. Was like, what's the difference between
(04:37):
being forgiven of all my sins and not having to
carry that weight in that burden versus my human desire
to feel like now I have this permission slip to
just go do whatever I want to do because I'm forgiven.
And that was one of the questions and distinctions that
came up for me, is like, it's not this unwritten
permission slip to just go do whatever you want because
Jesus says, and then go sin.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
No more, you know.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
And to me that was it's like this desire to
be forgiven, but also a recommitment to do all you
can do to not enter into that sinly experience again
if sinlely is a word that I may have just
made up, But so that's the big distinctions that are
coming up for me, Like it's the even if kind
of love and that even when you do this and
don't think you're forgivable kind of forgiveness and love and acceptance.
(05:22):
But it's also not this like open ended permission slip
to just go do whatever you want because you think like, oh,
God will forgive me anyways. At least that's my perception.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
There's a psalm that says, farther than from a sunrise
to a sunset, that's how far you've removed our guilt
from us. And when you imagine experiencing guilt, which we
all do or have, it's gone, like the reality. You
may feel it. There are consequences to sin, but the
(05:50):
way that God views us, our position is that the
guilt is gone. Leanne knows this. Jewish people understand that
there was a lamb, I know what they called it,
but they would put the blood on the lamb, and
the lamb took that guilt and that shame. Well, Jesus
was a picture of the ultimate lamb. It's not like
(06:12):
the Jews had to do it every so often. It
was a one time thing. Does that mean we're all forgiven?
It could? It means if you accept this, if you
accept the invitation from Jesus. Once you do that, you're clear.
You know the only way God sees you from then
on is as Jesus, which is very hard to believe.
There's a verse in John that says he must increase
(06:34):
and I must decrease. And so what I found is
moving closer to the Lord, like where I feel God's
presence after I've sinned, and where I see growth in
my life is when I'm focusing more on Jesus and
less on myself.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
And I think if you.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Grow up religious, the focus is generally on you and
you actually hear that verse like my sin is increasing
and his grace is decreasing. But when you actually look
at Jesus, it's he must increase. The grace that he
wants to give you is beyond anything you can imagine.
The more you focus on that, the less you focus
(07:16):
on yourself, the more freedom you live in daily, the
more you grow like He's doing it all. It's very
hard to believe, but it starts with believing. Just like
when you became a Christ, Foller, it's you believed in Jesus.
You believed he took your guilt and shame. Now you
need to believe that you are the righteousness of Christ.
You are right with God at all times. And the
(07:36):
more you focus on that, the less you will sin.
It's just a natural byproduct of right believing.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
And I want to just you know, share Karen and
anyone who is also asking these same questions. I think
sometimes it's easy to compare the relationship with God to
a relationship with other humans, right, And sometimes maybe we've
all had those relationships with a person, maybe it's a parent,
maybe it's a sibling, a boss, whatever it is, where
it's like, oh, we're in their good graces when we're
like air quotes, being perfect, or when we're doing everything
(08:04):
that we air quotes should be doing right. And to me,
that's not the relationship with God. And so when we
focus more on the relationship more than the rules and
the regulations that we think we're supposed to uphold when
it comes to having a relationship with God. And again
coming back to that word relationship, you know, to me,
that is why i need Jesus right, because I'm not
going to be perfect.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
I am going to sin.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
I'm a human, right, But having that place to just
come down on my knees and surrender and be like, hey,
I know I'm not perfect.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
This is why I need you, right.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
And that's to me what comes up and completes this
concept of a relationship versus more of like a roles
and rules and the kind of the legalism that I
think I grew up with in Judaism.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Right.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
So I'm curious to hear you know y'all's perspective to
share how this comes into play when it comes to
this relationship role with God and with Jesus.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
I don't know who said it, someone said that rules
of that relationship equal rebellion, and I think a lot
of that's true is that we've learned the right rules
to do, and then those rules that become performance, and
then your performance then determines how close or how far.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
You are from God. And so it's that part.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Of it that if I told you in my relationship
my wife, if I said to you that, well, I
do these things because that's my responsibility, that's an okay thing.
That's an okay motivation, right Like I if I do
these things so that I won't get punished like as
a little kid, the external is an okay motivation. But
(09:37):
when it comes internal of I don't want to break
my connection with you, Yeah, that's a whole other level
of maturity is I want to be as close as
I can to you, and anytime that I feel distant
from you, I want to come back to you. That's
a lot of things that we've been learning about. It's
the difference in a relationship or a covenant relationship, the
(09:59):
covenant relationlationship says I'll do anything in my power to
stay connected to you, okay, because in connection is where
I'm going to be the greatest me and I can
experience the greatest of what He has for me right
of who he is.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
And so that's the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
That's a whole another that's internal, that's an internal motivation.
If I'm still spanking my son at twenty, right, there's
a problem because he's only doing what I want him
to do because of punishment. And so many people can
live until they're sixty thinking that God's got there going
to spank them and they're still living from that. But
(10:39):
that's not intimacy. Intimacy is I want to stay connected
to you, and I will do whatever it takes to
do that. That's the difference in Jesus being your savior
and being your Lord Savior is he gave me some benefits,
and that's why I'm in this relationship. I can be
in relationships with other people and get benefits from with benefits.
(11:00):
We know the story, right, it's because it's a one
sided deal to get me out of things. But it
has nothing to do with intimacy. It's what I can
take from the relationship. But real intimacy is when I
can say, how can I give to you right in return?
And when that happens, there's a history that you create
(11:21):
with the Lord that is actually intimacy, and everything you
long for is found in that. Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
And just one little gold and nugget that you said
that I really wanted to reiterate to anyone who is
struggling with this. Just one little golden nuggat that you
said that I really wanted to reiterate to anyone who
is struggling with this is there's a maturity in a
(11:50):
relationship that takes place and giving yourself permission to not
feel like you're doing you have to do it all
right right away. That's why we have a loving God
that forgives us. You know, there is a journey. It's
it's a never ending process. It's never this like, oh,
I've mastered my life and I've mastered my relationship with God,
so like it's a one and done. It's constantly evolving,
and that's why we need him.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
The picture that came to mind as we're talking about relationship,
and I think what Leanne does a great job of
is helping us understand. It's an experience with Jesus, and
we experience him through a lot of different ways, prayer,
the word communion with each other. But the picture I
got was, imagine, Karen, when you're walking into your office,
(12:32):
if every time you walk through that door there's broken glass,
and like the way that you have to enter your office,
it's a tough way to start your day. Imagine if
your house, every time you walk through your house there's
just broken glass. When you're focused on stopping from sinning,
right when you're focused on the sin, it's like everywhere
you enter there's broken glass and you just have to
(12:54):
tiptoe around. And there's a story where one of Jesus'
disciples sees Jesus from the boat and starts walking on water.
It's wild and the reason he's able to walk on
water is because his focus is on Jesus, it's not
on himself. And so the great revelation is as you mature,
(13:16):
it's your focus becomes more about Jesus, and then you
see him and the way he sees you. And if
you don't know how he sees you, start reading just
the moments that Jesus had for people start asking Jesus,
how do you see me? And what will happen is
you'll walk in your office or you're walk in your
(13:36):
house and you will feel like you're walking on water.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
I love this, such a powerful conversation. So just before
we end, I'd love to touch on this little specific
piece of Karen's question where she said, even the sins
when we knew we were wrong doing them and we're
truly sorry for them. So I think, I mean, and
I totally get what you're saying, Karen, When we know
we're doing something air quotes wrong, it feels even worse
than if we accidentally stumble upon sin. Right, So I'll
(14:01):
just give some examples of you know, the clients that
I work with there, like Leanne, I just had, you know,
a binge again, and I'm trying to be free of this,
right anyone who you know? You know, I've heard testimonies
of people who have had affairs and drug users, and
you know, we we've heard we all know somebody who's
been accused of something and gone to jail for something,
you know, big sins that of course, at one point
in time, they thought they weren't able to be forgiven
(14:23):
and found found the Lord. And again this is not
a permission slip to go do wrong. But to me,
it's like the intent shaping the content, like when like
when something happens and you feel out of control. To me,
it's all about like who do you become after that?
Like do you go back to Jesus? Do you have
a compass to come back to? So I think oftentimes
we get really caught up in the sin itself and
(14:43):
then we self abandon or we self reject, and then
we become even closer to the sin and farther away
from God. And so to me it's about like, Okay,
this just happened, and I don't have to like it, right,
And yes I'm consciously aware of it. Does that mean
that it's even worse? No, it's like now what who
do I want to become? And that's why to me,
I need God?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Right?
Speaker 3 (15:03):
So, could you guys speak into like what happens when
you're consciously sinning and you've like said I never want
to do this again or I should know better, but
you see it happening again because it maybe feels like
you're out of control. Maybe it's a compulsion, maybe it's
an addiction. I think sometimes that might feel harder for
us when we think we should know better.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
You know, this is so countercultural to the way that
we're trained as Americans, like like fix your stuff right,
you know, like you need to pull your bootstraps up
and get better.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Yeah, just will your way through it, like you're supposed to.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
The people that Leanne helps, they've that's where they've all been,
That's how they think. And she knows we all know.
It doesn't work, whether you're you're trying to like lose
weight or quit a habit, like, it doesn't work. So
the the internal leads to the external and the wildest
prayer I've found a prey and it sounds it sounds
so opposite. Even when you're in that sin, you're intentionally
(15:58):
doing that you can't stop doing, is Lord, I can't,
but you can't. So good I can't, but you can.
Like when Jesus died, it wasn't yesterday, and it wasn't tomorrow.
It was like two thousand years ago, but God, in
his grace covered every sin, past, president and future in
that moment. He covered it all.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
I don't know if she's.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Asking how do I stop? Right? But I think there's
an understanding like I still sin sometimes intentionally. Is that covered?
And once again it's your focus on Jesus and the truth,
which is he says it's from sunset to sunrises. That's
how far apart it is. That's the way he sees you.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
When I first came a relationship with the Lord, I
didn't understand the renewal process because I was told tewon corinthing,
it is five seventeen. Therefore you're in Christ, your new creation,
the oldest gonne the news coming. I was like, thank
you Jesus, the old left. Yeah, Like I mean, I
had the moment, you know, I cried when up front
did the thing said yes to Jesus. I was like,
this is awesome, Like, dude, it's gone.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I can tell it's gone right now, nothing you know
getting me.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
I'm bulletproof, right And then I go home and I
realized I packed that stuff up and it showed back
up my front doorstep three weeks later, and I was like,
hold up, I read the verse. I know the verse,
the old is gone, the news come, what's wrong?
Speaker 1 (17:17):
And so what I do?
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Well my Baptist self right, because that's where I grew
up in it was the Baptist world. I rededicated my rededication.
I did that about nine times. I gave myself to
the ministry. I did all the things like I did, baptize,
all the stuff.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
And I'm like, I'm still not there.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
I'm not there, and I never understood the renewal process.
Salvation happens in an instant. Sanctification is a process. Glorification
is what we get on the other side when we're perfect. Okay,
Salvation is I get it all. Sanctification is I'm learning
(17:52):
to walk in the new me that I don't know
that I have yet. So Romans twelve to two, be
ye transformed, get transformed, be transformed by the renewing of
my mind. So I've got all Jesus, his whole spirit
lives in me. The same spirit the regions from the
dead lives inside of me. That's not the problem. The
problem is not the spirit that lives in me, because
(18:13):
it's complete, whole and pure, all of it. The same
one that live in Jesus lives in me. Okay, then
what's the problem. It's the soul. My soul's made up
my mind, my will, and my emotions. How do I
renew my soul then, because that's the problem. It's through
the word. If I can get the word. It's not
my opinions, not my past, not what someone else has
said that's going to set me free. It's his truth
that sets us free. It's the only thing that frees us.
(18:35):
It's not that we're not free. It's not that we
need more from out here to get in here.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
It's we have all of it in us.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
We need to renew our minds so that what's in
us will flow from us. And when you do that,
that's where you find the freedom that's always been there.
It just hasn't manifested itself in your life because there's
still things in your own mind that's been clogging the
things to come forth. Don't run after Jesus and try
to get more of it.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
You got him. When you know you got him, it matters.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I'm at the age now where sometimes I'll be looking
for my keys and they're my hand. Until I know
they're my hand and acknowledge I have them in my hand,
I can now go drive my jeep and do what
it's meant to do. Some of you have the keys
in your hand and have no idea, but you need
to understand the same exact spirit there is Jesus Christ,
the dead man to life lives in you. When you
(19:25):
get that understanding, now you don't have to run after
try to get more.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
You can just live from what you already are.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
So so good. Wow, what a great question. I'm so
glad that you asked this, Karen, because it led to
this powerful conversation. And one thing I just want to,
you know, kind of rap with is you know, Karen
and anyone who's listening, because I know that you are
speaking into all of our hearts when you ask this,
just keep coming back to him like that's it. Like,
just keep running back. You fall down, keep running back.
(19:54):
You feel like you've sinned, Keep running back. You don't
know if you've sinned, but you're afraid you did. Keep
coming back. It is about this never ending relationship because
that's the opposite of what we mostly do when we
sin We run away.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
I'm gonna mess this up and I'm gonna try to
say it. So get as quick back to Jesus as
you can. And in your own mind, he's already there,
so it's not like he's walking away or he's disconnected.
He's there. But in your own mind, get back to
him as quick as possible, because the distance you leave
is the where the enemy's going to try to steal
things from you that's already yours and tell you things
(20:27):
it's not true. Because how many times in my own
struggles and my own show is in the past with pornography,
the moments that I let three weeks go by and go,
oh God, when I'm serious, I'm going to come back
to you. That whole three weeks the enemy just pounded
me and beat me up with lies that were there.
The last thing God says to Adam and Eve when
they're in the garden he made them in Genesis two
(20:49):
twenty five is that they were naked and they felt
no shame. When you feel shame, I don't mean guilt.
I feel bad about what I did, but that I
am what I did. When you feel that I am
this thing, I am dirty, I am that thing I'm
going back to. That is the toxic shame in therapy world.
But I'm talking about that shame that is not the
(21:11):
voice of God. He is not the one wanting you
to run from him. He knows that he is the
answer to your problem. It's running to him. Last thing,
there's a difference in condemnation and conviction. Condemnation says I
need to run from God. Conviction says I need to
run to God because he's the answer to my problem
(21:31):
and the one that's when I need help. So that's
the difference in those two things.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Yeah, so be convicted but not condemned. That is such
a powerful distinction. I'm so glad that this all came up. Karen,
Thank you so much for asking this question. We are
going to end this episode of Ask the God Pod,
but we will be back for more, so see you
next time. Bye. We'll be back with more What's God
Got to Do with It? But in the meantime, I
(21:58):
would definitely love to hear from you, So just tell
me where you are in your story or maybe what
questions you have, like where do you feel you need
clarity or support or wisdom in your own journey. I
definitely want to hear from you, So head on over
to What's God Got to Do with It? Dot com
and scroll down to the form to share your thoughts,
(22:18):
your questions, your feedback, and.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
You can do that instantly. So What's God Got to
Do with It?
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Dot Com? You'll find all the ways to do that,
And if you like this podcast and want to hear more,
go ahead and follow, like, and subscribe wherever you listen
to podcasts to get your weekly dose of What's God
Got to Do With It? New episodes drop every single Tuesday,
and while you're there.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Be sure to rate and review to show your support.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
It really means so much. What's God Got to Do
With It is an iHeartRadio podcast on the Amy Brown
Podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
It's written and hosted by.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Me Leanne Ellington, Executive produced by Elizabeth Fozzio, post production
and editing by here Used Antilly and original music written
by Cheryl Stark and produced by Adam Stark
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
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