June 28, 2016 • 70 mins
This guy is one the most successful songwriters in country music. He has written 15 #1 songs, more than 10 top 10 songs, and over 1000 songs recorded by artists including Reba, Brooks & Dunn, George Strait, Faith Hill and Tim McGraw. He has had such a colorful life filled with beginning in a rock-n-roll band from Youngston Ohio, moving to Nashville, becoming a session player, which lead him to writing songs, which lead him to a whirl-wind life of success, a marriage and divorce to Pam Tillis, partying and living the wild life, to sobering up and settling down with the love of his life Leslie Tomasina. Bob does not hold a thing back, and is the most charismatic, kind soul. He is a member of the Nashville Songwriter Hall of Fame and the Nashville Walk of Fame. I left this interview feeling completely inspired!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Carola. She's the queen of talking. He was sown, you man.
She's only is side. She got the snoop on the
on the ones to side. No one can do with clide, Carola, Carola.
(00:29):
No one can do with clid like Carola Tile. Caroline. Hey, y'all,
welcome to Hyper Caroline Hobby. I am your host, Caroline Hobby.
I know music, I know people, and I know the
questions do you want to ask? So let's get hyper
heads up. These are adults having adult conversations, so there
could be adult content. Today. We have bobbed up Hero.
(00:55):
He is one of the most amazing songwriters in Nashville.
He's written over fift number one hits, He's written over
ten top ten hits, and then over a thousand songs
he has written have been cut for other artists. He
also happens to be one of the funniest, most endearing,
charming men ever, and he talks all about his journey
to Nashville from Ohio. So interesting. Here he is welcome
(01:18):
Bob to Bureau. Hello Bob ro Hello Caroline Hobby. You
got it right because you knew he was Caroline cut Berth.
I did know he was Caroline cut Berth and now
I know he was Caroline cut birth Hobbies, correct, Demondo.
So this is a fun day and a fun way
(01:38):
to start this interview because I got to hear this
song you just wrote with Fancy, with Fancy and Ian Keggy,
and it's called dirty Love, Dirty Love, and it lives
up to that time. Actually it's just called dirty. It's
basically like, don't love me unless it's dirty, don't watch
your love unless it's dirty. Hook up song. Well, yeah
(02:02):
it is, but it's also I don't know, you know,
it's a very sexual song, but it's also about I
just want it all right? Where do you get your inspiration?
Like where does the song like that come up? Do
you do you walk in and be like, okay, I
want to walk up. I want to write about hooking up,
but you don't have a stick around, you know, it
(02:24):
would it would surprise you where that came from. It
came from some deep conversation that I was having. You
know that happens with Leslie, when my wife Leslie, and
it was a very serious conversation. And what was it about. Well,
it was about being honest with each other and uh
(02:49):
being just letting it out, like sexually everything. Hi, Leslie?
Oh sorry, Leslie? Comes, say how we're talking about you?
Come on, we're talking about on this podcast. We're talking
about how dirty was inspired by you guys. Well, I
was telling her it was inspired by a conversation we
(03:12):
had that was not It was serious. It was a
serious conversation. Yes, I'm not a dirty girl, adventurous girl,
but listen, to keep a marriage spicy, you have to
stay at venturous. Well, I get out, by the way,
anyone listening Leslie Thomasina. Her name is Leslie Thomasina. Dapiro
(03:32):
no is smoking hot. Bob has a rocking hot wife.
And she was just in the Vagina Monologues in Nashville.
You were there, and you were in the vagina audience,
and I was laughing. I was, I was, I was
in the vagina. I never knew how much I loved
vaginas until I saw you in it. All vaginas. We
have vagina crushes on each other. There you go. Do
(03:54):
you need to tell Bob something? Well I was going
to tell him. I gotta go running over the other clients. Well,
see you get home. Look how cute you guys are?
We okay, get that dirty love ready for when he's home. Okay,
So it's inspired by a conversation. Yeah, And songs are
(04:16):
usually to come about you have to get really deep.
But that's I mean, what's interesting about co writing is
that the subject matter might mean something to me that's
totally different from what it means to my co writer.
You know, where maybe Fancy was just thinking about some
(04:36):
dirty love, but I was thinking about this other thing.
But you know, you put the minds together and something
bigger shows up, you know. So we're sitting here in
this room we're calling it the Bunker, which is your studio,
and literally wall to wall of songs that you have written,
(04:57):
like huge freaking hits. You've had fifteen number one, fifteen
number one songs. Let me throw some of those out there.
American made by oak Ridge Boys. That was your first
number one song, first number one song in nine three.
I was wow you were born, then I'm sold. Okay.
(05:19):
You're from a steel manufacturing center of Youngstown, Youngstown, Ohio, Youngstown, Ohio,
which used to be Did your family work in steel? No,
believe it or not, there were. We were one of
the very few families who didn't. My my dad actually
was a foot doctor, a pediatrist. Yes, he was a
(05:42):
foot doctor. And my mom was a housewife. She was
a stay at home housewife. Okay, so how did you
discover this love of music because you also went to
music college, I did you know, and you were in
hard rock bands, yes, or bands that I mean. I
went through a series of bands, you know. But it
(06:04):
started out, you know, like so many people of my age,
my vintage, Uh, seeing the Beatles on TV for the
first time, that was it. I was blinded by the light.
I mean, it was just like, okay, I want to
do that. What about that excited you? Well, the music
(06:31):
was more like magic to me at the time. You know,
it's just how do they do that? And they were
smiling and girls were screaming at them of course of
course blooded American male, Yes, and uh, it was it
was that. And so, like everybody else, I bought a
(06:54):
guitar and went into the garage with my brother and
some of his friends, and we had this not really
good band, you know, and we played Beatles songs and
and I it just never stopped for me. Yeah, I sang.
I started out I'm going to tell you something you
(07:15):
don't know. I started out as a ROADI. I think
I was the first official ROADI really for your for
your brother's bandy my brother's band. Uh. They had gotten
a New Year's Eve gig. I wasn't playing in that band,
(07:35):
but I so wanted and and we were so young
that none of us drove. So the drummer's dad came
over to pick my brother up, and while we were
waiting for him to show up, my brother was like,
you can't go. He's really like, that's so it got
(08:00):
You can't You're not gonna go. You're not gonna go.
And and Ralph Desimon was the drummer's name. His dad
showed up and he opened the door, came in the
house and goes ready to do. Yeah, how about you, Bobby?
You ready? I'm not going? Well why not? Well, Don
said I couldn't go. Of course you can go, come on,
(08:22):
and my brother's like dash. I just Thenity took the
open opportunity and I just jumped in there and she
started being the ROADI eventually got asked to be in
the man No I. Eventually, while I was a roady,
I eventually picked up a tambourine and I would kind
(08:42):
of play it off to the side, you know, and
I'd inch up a little bit more. I totally it's
my way in the story of my life. Hey, but
I mean, Bob, it's not like there's a whole lot
of options in the steel town of Ohio, right. No,
there wasn't. But I was just in this. You're the
(09:03):
I'm the younger brother, and I just I just had
to be involved. I just had to be involved. So
I was practicing guitar and doing all this stuff, and
I just had to be involved. And that was so
I got into a band. I got into that band,
and and then he went to the music college. Did
the band ever getting success? Or was that just like
(09:24):
the gateway drug into the world? It was. It was
kind of a gateway drug. But that band went through
several incarnations, and my brother and I were playing together,
and then we started yet another band with the same
Ralph I was telling you about, and another Ralph. We
(09:44):
had Ralph and Ralph. Did you we should have? Oh
we weren't smarter? That so much smarter? So you go
to college, go to college after this band, and do
you start really studying music? Yes, I mean the band.
You asked me if we had any success? We got
hooked up with a lead singer who was also from
(10:06):
the next time, but he was older than us, and
somehow he had gotten some kind of for cocta record
deal from from this very unknown label called Paula Records
in Shreveport, Louisiana, and so somehow they didn't want a
solo singer. They wanted a band. So he said, you're
(10:26):
my band, and so we flew down to Shreveport, Louisiana
and started recording, and nothing really came of it, excepted
I started to see a scratch. Oh man, I got
a big old dose of it, and I loved every
minute of it. So came back and and Youngstown State University,
(10:48):
which is where I went and where I graduated from,
had a small part of that school called the Danas
School of Music and it and I was, I was just,
to be honest, I was just trying to stay out
of the army because they had the draft back then,
and I was I was not into what was happening,
(11:10):
you know. So I just hung onto my draft deferment
by going to school and I'm going, well, I'm here.
I love music, and so I started taking music courses
and I I was like so many musicians. I couldn't
really read music hardly at all, but I had a
really good I had developed an ear so that I
(11:31):
could hear something, I could play it back, so I
would fake a lot of but I just heard it,
you know, and I could get pretty close to it.
And so yeah, I went there and I started taking
really traditional theory and harmony. It's not like what we
know today like Belmont offers here, just very contemporary music business,
(11:56):
recording arts, all that stuff. It was just a real
bag that traditional theory and harmony course. And I played
in the jazz Man there, and I studied classical guitar,
and I sucked at classical guitar because I'd sit there
and start practicing these studies, and about twenty minutes in
I'd be writing a song. So that's when you discovered songwriting. Yeah,
(12:21):
I mean songwriting came from for me being in a band.
Everything sprung from being in a band because my heroes
at the time were the Beatles and the Rolling Stones,
and I'd read all their their album covers and I'd
look and it was Lenna McCartney, Lenna McCartney, Jagger Richards,
Jagger Richards, and these guys write their own songs. So, well,
(12:44):
if you're in a band, you write your own songs. Okay,
I'm gonna write my songs. Were you good at writing
songs in the beginning, I don't know. I know, I
mean I was. I guess I could see that, I knew,
I knew how it went, I knew how how the
structure went, and I was I was really good at
(13:06):
seeing images in my head, well just stories in your
head kind of sort of or or to me, I
always described as like a piece of d N A,
you know, like what they do now they can clone
as sheep from one little piece of d N as
Like if I just got a title, that's somewhere that
(13:29):
I can grow the song from. Or if I just
got a little guitar part, well that's another part I
can grow the song from. Or we're talking about something
and I get a feeling, well that's another piece of
DNA that can grow a song. Imagination. I have a
wild amagage very well, But you can grow a whole
(13:50):
song from a tiny little nugget. I guess that's the
best way to describe it. Yeah, I guess it is
inspiration that you can grow it. Yes, I always say
I I pray. When I pray, I don't pray for
a hit song. I pray for inspiration. Ohays, say, God,
just give me the inspiration. I'll do all the heavy lifting.
(14:11):
That's amazing. It's it's what I've done all this time.
And I have friends and and they've got like the
they've got like the secret recipe to coke that they
just keep churning an app But for me, it's always
I'm looking around. I think you have that sec your recipe.
(14:32):
I guess. I don't know. It doesn't feel like that.
It's always a new new feeling. I think that's the
sign of a true person who's not You're not. You're
not satisfied as all you've accomplished, like you're still hungry
for it. Like even though you are in the Songwriters
Hall of Fame, which is huge, you've had fifteen number ones. Like,
how many top tens did you have? I don't know,
(14:56):
Honest to god, I don't know. You've written over a
thousand songs that have been cut by Yeah, that's crazy,
that's stupid. I've written too many songs. No, that's crazy.
You have your you have a star on the Songwriters
Walk of Fame, Nashville's Walk of Fame in between Jimi
Hendrix and Barbara Mandrell, which I always said pretty much
(15:16):
is exactly where I'm at, somewhere between Jimmy Andricks and Barbara.
I love that. Well, So, Okay, you're in this band,
you start writing songs, you go to school, you keep
continuing your craft. What is a moment where you're like,
I'm moving to Nashville to be a songwriter. I was
in college, I was playing in bands at night. I
(15:38):
was given guitar lessons in the late afternoon to pay
the rent. And uh. I had some neighbors who lived
in an apartment where I was living, and they were
also songwriters, and but they were really and then they
were really songwriters. And they started talking about going to Nashville.
(16:02):
So I heard this week, why would you go to Nashville?
Not at all? I mean I knew zero minus zero
about country music, honest honestly, there were I don't remember
any country radio stations up there, or maybe I just
didn't want to hear. I only listen to Top forty
(16:24):
radio and rock and roll. You know, That's that's what
I listened to, you know. And and so to make
a living. I would sometimes I go to the only
recording studio in Youngstown, which was this Polkas Studio. Youngstown
is very well known for their polka bands, if I
had to, I mean, I'm not saying that I don't
(16:46):
like polka, but actually there's many Grammy winners come from Youngstound,
Ohio because it's doing polka. So fact, there's a fun
fact right there, Like rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Oh yeah, that's like trickling down in the Ohio area.
Oh absolutely absolutely trickled down. And during all this time,
(17:10):
I would go out to the bars at night and
listen to the rock and roll bands, and I saw
Bob Seger playing in clubs, and I would see the
James Gang with Joe Walsh playing in clubs. And I'd
come home and I go, I'm so screwed. If every
little talent Youngstown has got guys like that, I got
(17:31):
no chance. But it really informed me what excellent really was.
Started off seeing great right away, yeah I did, and
it really was well and and me and me thinks
you're really good, you know, but and that makes you
feel good, But what is good? You know? And even
going to school and learning the true theory of harmony
(17:57):
inform me what was really exceptional. So I got that
in my head. Okay, that's that's what exceptional is. Joe
Walsh is exceptional. You know. Bob Seeger is really really good.
You know, did you from the beginning put pressure on
yourself to be one of the greats? Like? Is that
(18:19):
the category that you were striving for? Is that the
company that you like? Nothing below that great status would work?
Is that where you set your bar? You know? I
wish I would say yes, but I was just floating
in the music I didn't have. I'm going to be
Elvis Presley. It really wasn't like that. I just wanted
(18:41):
to play music, and I wanted to be in a band,
and I saw those guys and and all I would
think was, Man, wouldn't it be great to be like that?
You know what? It would be so great? And I
would just get this in my mind and think about
it and dream it. So I guess I dreamed it.
And my my dad always said and I had delusions
(19:01):
of grandear. He would he you know, I'd say, Dad,
and I'm gonna go down. I'm gonna write these songs,
and and he's going you have delusions of grandear. You know,
this is gonna burn out and you're gonna finally get
a job. What are you talking about? You know? And
as time went on, these delusions of grand ear became reality. So, okay,
(19:21):
speaking of that, you your friends are in college. They're saying,
we're going to Nashville. You're like, what the heck is Nashville?
What's country music? You start hearing about it, You're like, okay,
I'm coming with you. I didn't they moved, Okay, they
said we're going. They weren't college guys, they were just
street guys, and they said, we're moving to Nashville to
the songwriters and artists. They wanted if there were two guys,
(19:42):
and they wanted to be a duo. They wanted to
be the Everly Brothers or something. And so I kept
in contact with him, and I decided, and I honestly
say this, I knew my car would not make it
to l A, but I knew it could make NATS. Phil,
you should write that song, I know. Actually that's a
(20:05):
great visual. You need inspirations. I mean, I had gone
to New York City to try and peddle this album
we made, and it just I'm not being honest. It
just totally overwhelmed me and NWY it was just like
whoa I was. I wasn't ready for it. But uh,
(20:28):
and then in the meantime, I had started writing songs,
you know, and Uh, I would trade out time with
the only studio in Youngstown. I would. I would say,
you have a bread commercial, Okay, I'll write your bread commercial,
and you give me the studio from ten o'clock at
night till six o'clock in the morning. And that's what
(20:51):
I would do. I'd go in there and record these
record as bread commercial and then I'd record these songs
I was writing. And those were the songs that I
brought to Nashville. Was American made in that batch? It
was not in that batch. No, none of those songs,
none of the songs you're describing, was in that batch.
Let me give you a little rundown really fastest. Some
(21:12):
of the number one songs that Bob Papiro has written
American made. Oakridge Boys, Wink, Neil McCoy, I love that song,
Blue Clear Sky, George Straight, Oh my God, love it,
Daddy's Money, Ricochet, World's Apart, Vince Gill, that rock Won't Roll,
Restless Heart, Little Rock by Reba, Do You Love Me
Just Say Yes? Highway one oh one, Church on Cumberland Road,
(21:34):
Shannon Doah, Money in the Bank, John Anderson, Take Me
As I Am, Faith Hill, Oh my gosh, I love
that song Till You Love Me Reba, their Planner Song,
Neil McCoy, If you ever stopped loving me, begun, re
Gentry Southern Voice, timor Gal. I mean number one songs.
You've had fifteen number one songs. That's not even your
top ten songs, which I won't even go through all those,
because I think you have over like how many top
(21:56):
tens do you have? How many Top Caroline? I couldn't
tell you. I'm not that kind of guy that goes, well,
you know what, I have thirty Top twenties, i have
twenty two Top eight teams, I've got seven Top five.
I know how many number ones I have and after that,
I don't. I'm not counting. It's it's like, yes, I
(22:17):
like number one songs. Number one songs are great. I
love to get more of them, you know, But I'm
just just inspiration for inspiration every day. Yeah, yeah, it's
not about counting the number ones or what and it's
not about what happened. It's to me, it's always about
(22:38):
what's going to happen. So you do not live in
the past. No, And it really pains me when I
see a lot of my contemporaries who do living off
their past achievements. Well yeah, not that that they shouldn't
be saluted. No, they should be saluted. But I mean, well,
back when I was having my big success, music was
(23:01):
so much better. This music sucks now, you know. It's like,
come on, man, you know there's good. You know, there's
good everywhere, and there's bad everywhere, you know, and and
they kind of get caught in that space, you know.
But I've always wanted to just move forward. And I
saw that you said you always want to stay relevant,
(23:22):
And what how do you do that? Because you have,
how have you done that? And what is your secret
for staying relevant? I just try to keep a student's heart.
You know, A student is always learning and just when
I when, if I ever think I know it, then
I'm screwed. Because to me, to be relevant, you have
(23:45):
to always be learning. Everything is, everything's always changing. The
language changes, you know, how we speak today. In two
thousand and sixteen, is not how we spoke in nineteen
three or nineties or two thousands career since well, actually,
my first song I ever had entered the charts was
(24:09):
Reba McIntyre song called I Can See Forever in Your
Eyes that I wrote by myself, and it was like
en eighty two or and yeah, it surprises me, but
you know, you you learn the language of music. In music,
there's only so many chords, especially in country music. It's
(24:32):
like primary colors as far as the harmony and the melodies.
You know, you get to other types of music and
there's pale blue, there's smoky, dusty roads, youngstound, I mean
youngstanding country music. They're very primary. But within those primary
colors are so many alternatives. And that's what keeps it
(24:56):
fresh for me. And also love working with the new
kids in town. I love it. It's it informs my
mind and informs my brain and informs my musicianship, it
informs my tech brain. You know, it's just Okay, that's
(25:19):
what these guys are thinking about, and okay, that's how
that's how we're speaking now, and oh, this is a
gear that's really working. You know. Although I still if
I followed everybody, I would wouldn't be here. You know,
I follow myself. Yeah, I learned, you know, I write
(25:43):
with Craig Wiseman, I'm learning, you know, if I write
with Fancy, I'm learning, you know, if I write with
someone of that stature, I'm learning what I'm right? How
amazing because a lot of people with your kind of success,
I feel like I'm the big wig. I'm the alpha
of this co write and as you are. And it
(26:05):
works for that for those people, and that's cool. But
I've always tried to offer writers who might look upon
me as the big kna a welcoming space. Look, we're
both staring at the same blank page here, you know,
(26:27):
we're both starting nowhere. Let's go somewhere together. So you
come in with just no ego, and I try not to.
You know, if someone starts egoing out on me, and
it really rarely happens. I can be a big ego
to jerk if I need to be, I can, But
(26:49):
I don't like me as that, and I don't choose
to be that. Okay, so you got to Nashville because
your car wouldn't make it to California. How long when
did you show up in Nashville? I started making trips.
I started making trips to Nashville. Like two years before
I moved to Nashville, I came down to visit my buddies.
(27:12):
Then I came down again, and I brought some songs
with me, and I started just what everybody else who
has ever made it or who's ever gotten the music
business does, knocked on doors. You knocked on doors literally
embarrassed or scared I was going to be in the
(27:33):
music bus. You had no like nervousness about that. No, Honestly,
after after getting through music school, which I had no
business being in, and actually graduating, and being under that
much pressure and that much scrutiny, and after seeing all
(27:55):
these great artists who went on to become icons, I
was isn't afraid. I was like, I want this, you
gotta go. I just I was thrilled just to be here.
But I had to get somewhere. So, you know, nobody
sent for me. You know, people say, you know, Jed
(28:17):
Atkins didn't call me up and say, Bob, we really
need an Italian hillbilly down here. You know, I just
I just showed up. And I was a rock and
roll guitar player, and I literally had zero knowledge of
country music. You know, so many people say, oh, well,
look at all these guys today moving here from l
(28:38):
A and other pop guys. They're just track guys, and
I wonder if they're gonna have a track guy hall
of fame, you know. And they're just these young guys
and they think they know everything. Well, I was that
young guy who thought I knew everything, and I was
I was a rock guy, and they needed some rock.
They needed some life in country music, and I was
(29:00):
the guy to bring it, you know. So so I
just I did. I would literally walk up and down
the street. Do you think you dazzle people with your confidence?
Do you think they gave you a shot because you
were so confident? I don't know. I wasn't like get
a lot of this. You know. It's like, wow, am
I glad to be here? And man, I am I
(29:21):
glad you're talking to me? And here are some songs
I really like? And I was being honest. So how
did you get your first big break before the cut,
first big number one? How did you get your break
into the country music industry? Well, I had moved here
and I was making my living in Nashville, being a
(29:42):
guitar teacher, teaching guitar two kids after school, you know,
and uh, you know, they show up, I want to
learn back in black, and I teach it back in
black or I want to learn. So that's what I
was doing to make a living. But then I got
(30:03):
hold of a billboard magazine that said Combine Music looking
to expand its pop arm and I went, oh, I'm pop.
You know. So I was not affiliate with bm I,
(30:24):
but I had met someone from bm I, Jerry Smith,
and so I called him up and I said, hey, Jerry,
I'd really like to talk to somebody at Combine Music
because it says right here in the magazine that they're
they're looking to expand their their industry bigger than country.
And so Jerry made an introduction to Al Cooley, who
(30:46):
was the song plugger, the general manager at Combine Music,
home of Chris Christofferson at the time and Larry Gatlin
and blah blah, Dolly part and blah blah blah. Very
small independent company, was not a corporation, And so he
made me this this appointment, and I showed up with
(31:08):
my tape and I gave it to Al Cooley and
I'm sitting there and he plays it and he goes,
hold on hold of state right here, and he runs upstairs.
I don't know where he's going, comes back downstairs and
he says, all right, come upstairs with me, and he
takes me upstairs and he takes me in this big office.
(31:29):
And there is this guy named Bob Beckham who was
the publisher, the main guy of this publishing and Combine music.
And he kind of had his own language. You know.
He was from Oklahoma. I never met anybody from Oklahoma
from Ohio, you know. And he's, ah'm I shtaying the
(31:50):
sun fire are all I could all I could make
out that what he was saying was and and we're
gonna make a lot of money. And he dismissed. He
heard it, and so he thought you had something. He
thought I had something, And so did he sign you
to publishing. He said, you're welcome to come here. You're
(32:12):
welcome to come here. Any time you want to drink
the coffee, hang out, You're welcome to come here. So
I was the quintessential hair and a biscuit man. I
was there and I was hanging and I was drinking
the coffee, and yeah, I was you couldn't get me
(32:32):
out of it, man, he said, you said, yes, sir, yeah,
You're welcome to hang out. And and luckily at the
time there were guys like me, guys who had come
from different parts of the country who were trying to
do a similar thing. They were trying to write. They
were trying to figure out my artist and my writer.
(32:53):
What am I? All I know is that I love music,
and I met like minded guys. You know. I met
Steve Earle there, who has just come to Texas, and
he played me Devil's right hand right after he wrote it.
And I'm like, oh, it's screwed I write that, you know,
but it once again, it informed me about that's what
(33:15):
is excellent. I know that I feel that you can
tell an excellent song because I feel like I've been
a song pucker and listening to hear what hits are.
Sometimes I cannot tell what I Honestly, I can't tell
all the time. When I wrote Blue Clear Sky, I
liked it, I didn't think, yeah, I didn't think it
(33:37):
would ever go to somebody like George Strait, and I
never thought it would be be the title track of
the c M A album of the year. I liked it,
you know, and I remember pulling the faders. I'm going, wow,
this is a good song. But it never occurred to
me this is the number one smash, you know, because
I had other songs I thought were much better and
(33:59):
no one even responded to. But there were certain songs
that would just oh man, that is such a hit
that it's once again, it's hard. It's hard for me
to say. Uh. I thought Southern Voice that I wrote
(34:22):
with Tom Douglas was crazy good, not good. I thought
it was as good a song as I could humanly
right at that point. And I thought it said something
that meant something but had been said differently in a
way that had not been said before. And I thought
(34:46):
that's really unique and different and I think it's excellent
and I and then we can translate that into music.
Row language was that's a hit, you know. So I
was pretty certain that was a hit song. Yeah, And
and there have been others. I mean, I really loved
(35:06):
the song you mentioned really early in my career that
rock Won't Roll. It was just like, oh man, this
is so cool. What a good idea. Yeah, it was
a great idea, and it's a perfect example of Keith
Digging because I wrote that with John Scott Cheryl and
we had written this song called that Rock Won't Roll.
(35:33):
The whole song finished done, and we went back and
listen to it and said, man, there's nothing good about
this song except the title. So we just scrapped that
whole song. And because once you built this little creature
that is a song, well it is scary, but I
(35:56):
think it's it's prageous. You have to know when to
hold them. Yeah, there's a difference between stupidity and fearlessness.
I don't know what we're that like, truly, truly, but
I mean I think we both felt as such a
cool idea that we just scrapped that whole song and
(36:17):
started over, and thank god we did. Yeah, I think
we once again, I wrote a song about love but
wrote it in a way that may not have exactly
been said like that before. And you you make me
think of something interesting. I feel like sometimes on music
Row people can get into the habit of just showing
(36:39):
up with their co write, working for four or five hours,
calling it a day, and just like, oh, that's okay,
that's that's good, that's a fine song. But really, sometimes
you do have to put in the extra effort and
really like work harder because you can't get into an
easy routine. I felt, not you a particular but songwriter. Yeah,
And and there's a lot to be said for that.
(36:59):
I mean, writers that hit that sweet spot in their career,
it's like they can do no wrong. Everything they're writing
is getting recorded or getting listened to, and it's like, oh, yeah, okay,
it's five o'clock, I'm leaving now and fully expecting the
song to be recorded or looked at, you know. And
(37:20):
that's a portion of a career right there. But I
know what you're saying, but I think some songs don't
need to be reworked or rewritten. They're just blue Curt
I mean, yeah, blue clear Sky. We never changed the word,
never changed the note of melody. It was as it
(37:43):
was written. Oh shoot, yeah, absolutely. I think I think
in the creative process there's there's talent that's involved, and
there's when you become you know. I always said that
a trained seal can write one number one song, but
(38:08):
to write three, four, five and beyond, something's going on,
and I think that is talent. I think it's just perseverance,
you know. I think it's expecting a miracle, you know,
and luck is involved. Cannot say that that's not part
(38:33):
of it, or some people might call it my better
angels or it's my luck. But something helps. Do you
feel like you have to be open to receiving that
extra help? Oh? Yeah, I think so. I mean yeah,
I mean, I'm I'm a I'm a very I'm a
spiritual person of a problem with organized religion, but I
(38:58):
feel it. I believe, and songs are magical. Yeah, and
it really I think Keith Richards in his book really
described at least to me, it made sense where he
said that he feels like an antenna and he's just
got it up there and he's just waiting to receive
(39:18):
and it's like a radio and sometimes you can't get
the station, and sometimes you can hear parts of it,
and sometimes it's loud and clear, you know, and just
I just try to be open, you know. Oh, it's
a great book on for creative people too. I mean,
it's his version. There's no one way, there is no
(39:40):
one that is the truth. And actually, like talking to
people like I've gotten to do with the podcast, you
hear their stories and it's all over all over the map,
and that's good. It is because there is no one way.
Perseverance I think. Yeah, I think somebody said, you know,
if you want to get to California, you can walk
and take a bus, you take a jet, you take
(40:03):
a private jet. You could back, you could you could drive,
and you'll get there. But there are just so many
different ways to get there as long as you get
to California. About your car breaking down in Nashville, I mean,
you got that's your next infiration, Bob. I just like, Okay,
so you're the hair in the biscuit. That's where we stopped.
I kind of your hair in a biscuits. So I'm
(40:24):
hanging out this and I'm I'm running into guys like me.
But when you're much younger and hadn't started, Yeah, you know,
twentysomething guys that come from all different parts of the country.
And it's the first time I really met guys from
the South. Like, I'm from Mississippi, I'm from Atlanta, I'm
(40:46):
from I'm from Oklahoma, I'm from Texas. I'm from Florida. Well,
I thought Florida was Miami Beach. No, Florida is deep country,
you know. And but they all had the same passion
I had, and so it was easy to connect with
them and we both we all wanted to write something,
(41:10):
whether it was for our solo projects or we wanted
to have songs to be recorded by the artists of
the day. And so I fell in with these people
and started writing with them, and I guess I turned
in and those songs that finally this Bob Beckham said,
I want to sign you to a deal, son, And
(41:31):
I love that you're turning in songs that you don't
even have a publishing deal. Oh no, that your heart,
the eager heart. You wanted it. Well. I wanted to
show them. I wanted to show them how serious I
was and and that I'm going to do this and
if you're with me, cool, and if you're not with me,
I'm gonna do it somewhere else. But it was in
(41:52):
my heart to write these songs, you know. And so
finally said I'm gonna give you a deal, son. Yeah,
I'm gonna give you a seventy five dollars a week
every week. I'm like to me, it was because someone
was actually gonna pay me to write songs. That's a yeah.
I'm this guy from Young side Ohio. It was getting paid,
(42:14):
you know, five dollars a night and all the beer
I could drink in a bar band playing brown Sugar
or whatever, the songs of the day word, you know,
and this guy's paying me to write songs. So it
was huge. And and and that's what I That's what
I did. And I told you I was teaching guitar
(42:36):
when I first moved to Nashville. So I would show
up there on o'clock and I just hang out and
and then i'd start making writer appointments and i'd write
with my writer friends until about three o'clock. And then
i'd have to go all the way up to Rivergate Mall,
(42:57):
which is where I taught guitar in this real little
music store, and I would teach guitar to all the
kids from like three thirty two whenever they stopped coming,
you know. And then I'd come home and I right
by Combine to see if anybody was there, and if
they were there, I was there, you know, And I
(43:19):
just I just did that. But you have such an
infectious personality to that that must have really shown how
badly you wanted this. You know, he's got to love
your perseverance. Well, I'm you know, Bob Beckham was an
old school publisher, but a publisher nonetheless, just like I
(43:40):
don't know Detroit Thomlinson is today a great publisher in
our town right now? Or Mark Brown? You know, Uh,
they recognize, they recognized talent and drive. They recognized the package.
Talent is no good about d They recognize it's the package.
(44:01):
He's got, the talent, he's got the drive. Doesn't look
like he's taken over Nancy. And I think he's got
delusions of great You know, when I first moved to town,
I always felt like, how will people know that I
want to be here? You know? And I do agree
with what you're saying. Now that I've been here for
(44:23):
almost twelve years, you can tell when someone wants it.
It's not it's not it's not a regular thing. Not
everyone has the drive. I think that's a key ingredient. Yeah,
I think it is too. And I think it's it's
how you present yourself, you know. I mean, I think
(44:44):
I'm a pretty good guitar player, but I never showed
up with the attitude. Is I'm really hot shot? Elect
a guitar player? Get ready for this? You know or
someone I mean and honestly I'm not this is what
I think, or someone like you. You're very beautiful woman,
but you do not lead with that. You don't lead
(45:07):
with it, whereas a lot of women lead with that,
they lead with the sexual that last five seconds last. Yeah,
but you lead with your heart. I feel, you know,
and I think that's why you're here and where you
are right now, you know, and and all the other
stuff kition whenever you not just all this extra stuff
(45:28):
you got to use, you know. But I think you
lead with your heart, and I think I lead with
my art, and you can, and you can get hurt,
you can, But why why why not put yourself out
there so you can also get grandiose, grandiose life visions
of grandiose. Yeah, that's that. And yeah, so I just
kept working so you got the publishing. How did it
(45:49):
feel when you got inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame?
Starting from this whole journey. Now you've had your all,
your number ones, all your success, and now you're getting
inducted into the Country Music Hall of Fame. I mean,
are you like freaking out? Yes? It really was like otherworldly.
It was like a dream. It's like you dream of
(46:12):
since you were a kid. Yeah, it's like I'm watching
it happen from somewhere up here or something. Wow. Look
there's Bob and they're walking up and people are standing
up and clapping. And I wasn't necessarily in the moment
of Okay, I'm feeling this, I'm seeing this. It's just
like it was almost an out of body experience, you know.
(46:34):
And to see my peers and to see people like
whoever was in the audience, Vince gil Garth Brooks acknowledging
my work and a lot of them have both of
them have both of those guys, and and so it
felt they felt otherworldly. But I didn't feel like I
(47:01):
shouldn't be there. You felt like you deserved it. I
had worked, I know, the the time I put in there,
and I I always tried to do my best work,
and they were honoring me for my best work. What's
your motto a song writing? What's my motto? Yeah? Like
(47:21):
what you're like, go to what gets you up to
do it? Every day? Get up and put your pants on?
Show up, show up? Show up? Does somebody wants to
know the secret? That's the secret? Show up? Are you, okay,
if you have a day where you write a song
that you don't feel like it's great or does that
bump you out? Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm I'm a
(47:43):
competitive creature, just like praying, but everybody else on music grow.
I want to write a great song. But as time
has gone on, I've learned to accept that. I mean,
it's like an athlete. Athletes don't have old metal performances
every day, you know. Football players don't kill it. Cam
(48:05):
Newton kind of sucked in Super Bowl, you know, but
I'm sure he's gonna show up and play again and
make great plays. But it's just part of the deal,
you know. I hate it when that happens, but I mean, yeah,
just show up and just do that be. I really
(48:26):
have never felt that I've competed with. I want to
be just like whoever Rodney Clawson. I want to be
just like Mark Sanders. You know. I've always tried to
just be the best Bob Depiro and mostly I compete
with myself. Yeah, and while being aware of what's around me.
(48:52):
And I think songwriters are like reporters, you know, we're
just reporting on on what we've seen and what we've
you and what we hear and what we think. You know,
we're this is the daily news. Okay. So in the
middle of all this, you had there was a moment
where you were the songwriter of the Year multiple times.
(49:15):
What songs were a songwriter of the Year for which
is a huge procetious honor for Nashville to be honored
by the entire community of songwriters, all of like the artists,
it's the whole the whole town. And you were the
songwriter of the Year. I can't be honest, I can't
even tell you what those songs were. I knew. I
(49:36):
know during that period of time there were songs like
Blue Clear Sky and Daddy's Money and World's a Park
I had written with Vince. And you also got the
Triple Play Award for a couple of times during this
which is where you have three number ones within one year,
And I think, did you have a double triple play?
I had two, had earned to Triple Play awards. So
(50:00):
in two separate years, you've had three number one. That's
a big freaking deal. It was a big freaking deal
for me, for anyone. Yeah, I mean yeah, And you
know these days guys are getting multiple number multiple triple
plays a lot. But I think that's a that's the
(50:22):
result of the fact that our whole life is sped up.
You know that that our whole media wheel, our whole
radio wheel has just sped up, and they're just spitting
them out as soon as they get to number one, next, next, next, next, next,
and the guys that are in the golden circle, or
(50:43):
it's time for me to get them, you know. But
I was, I mean I never I never had it
in my mind that I was gonna get three number
one records in a year, or do it twice. I mean,
that's insane. Okay, So I'm looking at Cleopatrick Lean Denial.
I love that song from Pam tell us you guys
were married from we were married for it was seven years.
Were did you just write songs all the time when
(51:05):
we were around? I mean, when we were in songwriting mode.
Was that harving marriage an artist who's traveling all the time. Well,
I can only speak to my experience, and my experience
was that when Pam's career as an artist started, I mean,
(51:27):
she had really been at it trying to become an artist,
and she got out to l A for a rock
pop Madonna type deal at the time that didn't work,
and so she had been at it. She'd been knocking
at it. But when but when she started dating, she
was not quote unquote famous. She was mel Tillius's daughter.
(51:48):
That's that was the extent of her fame. And I
was already in my role as a songwriter of note,
you know. But Pam has always been a great songwriter,
you know. So as soon as we got married. The
day we got married, her first single, Uh, Don't tell
(52:13):
Me what to Do went number one. Yeah, I mean
too wish I had written it. And and immediately we
she was shot out of a kid. She's on a
rocket and she's starting out. So her hubby, Bobby is
playing in the band. I played guitar in the band.
(52:38):
We travel on the road. Melt Tillis for his wedding,
President Us gave us, gave us one of his old
tour bus, and it's a it was a old tour
of us and its still had bus seats in it,
you know. But we have a bus, you know. So
we just took off and and all of a sudden
(52:59):
we were on the road more than we were home.
It was fun until it wasn't fun, you know. Yeah,
I mean there was a time when we were really
killing it as a couple, but there was always this
competition thing going on that I was always I'm not
(53:20):
saying anything bad, but I was always like, hey, we're
a team. Isn't it a great gay for us? You know?
And the h and we were killing it, you know.
I think at one time two of us had half
of the top ten with her stuff with my stuff,
with our stuff together. Uh and uh, like I said,
(53:45):
it was a lot of fun until it wasn't fun anymore.
And and just what happens, you know, there's it's not
a cliche that people break up that are in show business.
I mean there's sometimes there's it's just impossible situations you
find yourself in. Why is that that so many people
(54:06):
break up and show business? But I think that's just
the same because people just break up in general. People
do break up in general. And I think you're right,
and I think it's just because they're famous and people
love to follow people who work not even famous, but celebrities,
and they get invited in their relationship like the Kardashians
(54:29):
and celebrities. You know, they they don't do anything but
they're they're celebrities people though they are, you know, and
I think that kind of spotlight on you personally in
your life. I mean, being married is hard enough without
somebody looking through your windows while you're being married, truly,
(54:52):
you know, and that at least this is my experience.
I'm not Dr Phil or anything, just my experience that
added to the insanity and the success we were having
was just just beyond beyond, you know, and all that
(55:14):
rolled into one and all the all the little devils
that come out from that, you know, envy and oh
look at that pretty women, look at that pretty guy,
all that stuff. Yeah, when you're on top, everyone wants
everyone watch every and everybody is in your ear, and
(55:34):
all of a sudden, sometimes the voices start screaming. I guess, well,
sometimes you start listening to them more than you listen
to your wife, or you start listening to your husband.
You're listening outside of the marriage, and you're putting more
weight on those voices rather than your own voices as
(56:00):
a couple. In a married couple, you know, well, I
guess it's easy to get lost in that big fog
because so many people are involved with you as a
brand and a product, and yeah, you're invested in your life. Yeah,
and it's it's such a it's it's it throws you off.
It threw me off balance, you know, because all these
(56:24):
people are invested in your life and all of a sudden,
it's just overwhelming, you know. And you know, drugs and
alcohol didn't help. So was that happening? Oh yeah. Do
you think there's a way to be moderate or is it? Oh? Yeah, absolutely,
(56:45):
it's hard to be moderate sometimes because it's don't you
feel like, in a way in this industry it's okay
to like And I'm not talking about Pam, I'm talking
about me, right, right, right. Don't you think it's sort
of like okay to drink every day? And well that's
the deal. I mean, that's you are right, you know.
You know in corporate America you have to take piss
(57:09):
tests and and they check you to see if you're high.
And here it's almost like you gotta mark against you
if you don't drink. You know. I remember going to
my later later publisher and telling her, listen, I've got it.
I've got to check out. I'm I've got to go
to rehab. I'm really in trouble and I'm gonna go
(57:30):
to rehab to deal with this. And and she was
like on the phone and hang her phone up, putting
her leash on her dog, and she goes, oh, that's great. Uh. Tommy,
someone who's the head of a record label in New York,
he just went to one and he said he had
a great time. I'll see when you get back. And
she just walk out and tell her I'm I'm spiraling
(57:55):
out to get and she goes, okay, bye. Or I've
heard people say I love to sign a writer if
they're going through a divorce because the inspiration is the
chance the pain. So yeah, and I haven't you had
another old publisher just had this this slogan of pain
(58:15):
and beauty. It's pain and beauty. Be upset? Yeah? Yeah
are you? Are you really upset? Book yourself today? Yeah.
So anyway, I'm not blaming anybody but me, you know,
but that's that's involved. So, so you decided to cut
drugs and anocohol out of your life at some point,
that's right. When did you decide? When did you decide
(58:37):
it was time to like xanay that when I felt
that I was dying. Yeah, I had gotten that bad.
It's not like I woke up from a hangover one
day and said, I don't want to feel like this anymore. No,
it was bad. It was bad, bad. You know, all
(58:58):
of the major food groups. I loved them all, Like marijuana.
I was awakened, bake kind of guy. Did that help
you write songs? No? I thought I did. And and
to me, cocaine was this was this exotic, taboo drug.
(59:20):
But that Dwayne Almand did a lot of cocaine, and
I loved Dwayne Almand, Keith Richards feel a lot of cocaine,
and so I want to be like them. So I
guess I'm gonna do cocaine, you know. And I did it,
and I liked it and everything else that was there,
and of course alcohol was always there. And so at
(59:42):
the end of my marriage to Pam Uh, as soon
as we got divorced, all of a sudden, I was
partners in an independent publishing company called Little Big Town,
which is where a Little Big Town got their name
from our publishing company because it came and asked us, well,
you're not using your name and where can we use it?
(01:00:04):
Which I came up was I came on, and so
we had sold this company to Sony a TV, like
so many corporations gobble up companies. And I just got
dumped on this gigantic mountain of money. And I'd just
(01:00:24):
gone through a divorce, and I was nuts, and I
had nobody to be accountable to. I was living here,
my family was in Ohio, and I just went down
the rabbit hole and I, you know, I had a
housekeeper tell me that. You know, I was always afraid
(01:00:45):
I was going to come to clean your house and
find you in your bed dead. Yes, and and so
thank god I recognized that. And and so I didn't
know what to do about it. And so I called
my old friend Steve Earle full Circle, who I knew
(01:01:07):
it had gone through this and more. But I called
him up and I said, Steve, Man, I'm I think
I'm in really deep trouble. I think I said something
funny like I'm surrounded by the Prudian Army or something
like that. You know, I can always make fun of anything.
And I said, but I don't know what to do.
And he said, well, man, I wasn't just you go
(01:01:31):
to rehab. And there's this place in Minnesota called a
Handley Hazelton and that's a great place. And I went there,
but still in my brain at the time, I was going,
I'm not calling to Minnesota in February hitting me. So
I started looking around, you know what. I found a
branch of Amiston in West Palm Beach, Florida. So I
(01:01:54):
think I'll go there. You know, I had nothing to
do and help. I'm in trouble. But where's yeah, I mean,
where's the sun? I want to go there. You know.
If I would have known about Eric Clapton's rehab place
in the Caribbean Islands, I would have gone there, you know,
But I didn't. I showed up there and and did
(01:02:15):
you get it right the first time? I got it
right the first time. I have no idea why. Well,
I think they isn't it part of the saying that
you have to want it yourself? Yeah? I think they
say you have to be willing. Is only the dying
can be to want it, you know. And I was willing,
and I was willing to do anything. Are you just
(01:02:40):
so ready? I was just so ready? I was. I
had scared myself sober, and I knew I couldn't do
it myself. And so I went there and I was
still an asshole. When I first got there, a bunch
of bullshit Psycho Babbo. I think this is a cult.
It sucks, you know. And then one day while I
(01:03:02):
was there, I just woke up and I was like, wow,
I think this can help me, you know. And I
just and I have no idea why I've been sober
this long? How many years have you been sober? A
couple of weeks ago was fourteen years. Knowing that I
could leave this interview and go jump off, that's the thing.
(01:03:26):
It's a daily every day. Some days it's so easy,
I never think about it. And some days it's not
so easy. But that's part of the deal. But I
know this. I know that had I continued on h
I would have probably died and I would never have
(01:03:48):
met Leslie. Who's your wife? Now? Who's my wife? Now?
It's probably my first sober relationship, it's probably since high school.
And she's like beyond, I don't deserve her, you know,
But I was. I was clear headed, and I was sober.
I'd been sober for a couple of years before I
had ever met her. And that's when I found that.
(01:04:12):
I always thought that I wrote all these songs because
I did drugs. But what I came to find out
was I wrote all these songs in spite of doing
all these drugs, because after I got clean and sober,
I went on having kept having hits, kept having the
you know if you ever stopped loving me? And and
(01:04:32):
Southern voice and on and on and on. So it's
got a huge moment of like relief in a way,
and then also like freedom. It's it's a feeling of
awakening and knowing something I didn't know. You didn't have
to depend on anything anymore. Yeah, and just I had
(01:04:57):
this all wrong? Really, what did you have wrong? I
thought that if I got high that it was cool
and and it helped me be here. And all my
friends drink until they fall over, and I want to
hang out with them, and so I'm going to drink
until I fall over. Well, some of my friends can
do that and then go home and they're over it.
(01:05:18):
But me, I keep going, you know. So I figured
that out about myself and uh to do something about it. Yeah,
but I'm not strong enough that I can pull this
off myself, you know. So I do all to do.
I go to the meetings, and thankfully my wife has
(01:05:41):
been a great help. You know, she gets it. She said,
what I call a civilian she doesn't have this is
um and uh, you know, and most of my friends
get it. They all get it, and I'm don't and
(01:06:01):
I'm not that good of friends with them anymore. Yeah,
that's amazing. I mean, that's almost probably it's big of
accomplishment as these songs on your wall. It is to
me knowing what I know now. I mean, I get this,
I get this. I know it's amazing. Literally has like
(01:06:24):
fifty number one time. I really I get this, and
I'm now able to take in or before I didn't
know what I was taking it. You're just in it.
I was just high. I was high and I was
in it, you know. So here we are, sixteen and
I just got done writing a really good song today
called dirty Love. Okay, so we gotta wrap up, even
(01:06:44):
though it's been an hour. I want to talk to
you forever because you probably are one of the most
interesting humans on earth. Your story is so colorful. Yes,
I'm a colorful guy. You are a colorful guy. Look
at my phone. It's colorful. So I like to end
all of my interviews with something I call leave your Light.
(01:07:07):
So leave me some inspiration, like inspire us with something
that means something to you or has inspired you, or
that you want to inspire on others. I think if
you want a life in the creative arts, especially in
the entertainment business, whether you're a songwriter or or an entertainer,
(01:07:32):
always have the heart of a student. Be willing to learn,
be willing to try stuff that you've never tried, you know,
be open to it. And have fun while you're doing it,
because sometimes that fun is all you're going to get
out of it. So have you know, have a good
time while you're doing this. Have fun. I love that,
(01:07:53):
even if funds all that it is, yeah, because there's
a lot of times, you know, write a great song, man,
we had a great time and nothing ever comes to
the song, but we had a good time while we're
doing it, you know. But go after what you want,
go after your dreams. Don't be afraid to ask for
what you want, and be the hair and somebody's biscuit.
Be the hair and somebody's biscuit. Just show up. And
(01:08:15):
I will say that there's a fine line between stalking
and networking, and you need to find out where your
line is. That line between being a pest and pestering
and networking, or how to speak to somebody or how
to show up just enough or at the right time.
(01:08:38):
That is an art. It's it's very much part of
being in the music business and you can figure it out,
but you have to know who you are, so if
you don't find out. Thank you so much for interview.
Thank you, Caroline. I enjoyed every month. Carol Love. She's
(01:09:02):
a queen of talking. No one can Carol Love. Carola.
Thank you all so much for tuning into hyper Caroline Hobby,
(01:09:24):
I hope you loved hearing from Bob to Piro. He
is one of my favorite humans on Earth, and I
just loved having him as a guest. Next week, I
am freaking thrilled because I have the o G, the original,
the one and only Cody Allen. He host on CMT
and I have loved him and looked up to him forever,
and he gives me lessons on how to host and
(01:09:45):
it's so fun. And then we hear his whole story
on how he got into hosting and how he became
the household name that he is in the CMT sensation,
So y'all get excited for Cody Allen and please tune
in every week and subscribe on iTunes and leave some comments.
Thank you guys so much, See you next week. Bye
(01:10:11):
mm hmm
Carola. She's the queen of talking. He was sown, you man.
She's only is side. She got the snoop on the
on the ones to side. No one can do with clide, Carola, Carola.
(00:29):
No one can do with clid like Carola Tile. Caroline. Hey, y'all,
welcome to Hyper Caroline Hobby. I am your host, Caroline Hobby.
I know music, I know people, and I know the
questions do you want to ask? So let's get hyper
heads up. These are adults having adult conversations, so there
could be adult content. Today. We have bobbed up Hero.
(00:55):
He is one of the most amazing songwriters in Nashville.
He's written over fift number one hits, He's written over
ten top ten hits, and then over a thousand songs
he has written have been cut for other artists. He
also happens to be one of the funniest, most endearing,
charming men ever, and he talks all about his journey
to Nashville from Ohio. So interesting. Here he is welcome
(01:18):
Bob to Bureau. Hello Bob ro Hello Caroline Hobby. You
got it right because you knew he was Caroline cut Berth.
I did know he was Caroline cut Berth and now
I know he was Caroline cut birth Hobbies, correct, Demondo.
So this is a fun day and a fun way
(01:38):
to start this interview because I got to hear this
song you just wrote with Fancy, with Fancy and Ian Keggy,
and it's called dirty Love, Dirty Love, and it lives
up to that time. Actually it's just called dirty. It's
basically like, don't love me unless it's dirty, don't watch
your love unless it's dirty. Hook up song. Well, yeah
(02:02):
it is, but it's also I don't know, you know,
it's a very sexual song, but it's also about I
just want it all right? Where do you get your inspiration?
Like where does the song like that come up? Do
you do you walk in and be like, okay, I
want to walk up. I want to write about hooking up,
but you don't have a stick around, you know, it
(02:24):
would it would surprise you where that came from. It
came from some deep conversation that I was having. You
know that happens with Leslie, when my wife Leslie, and
it was a very serious conversation. And what was it about. Well,
it was about being honest with each other and uh
(02:49):
being just letting it out, like sexually everything. Hi, Leslie?
Oh sorry, Leslie? Comes, say how we're talking about you?
Come on, we're talking about on this podcast. We're talking
about how dirty was inspired by you guys. Well, I
was telling her it was inspired by a conversation we
(03:12):
had that was not It was serious. It was a
serious conversation. Yes, I'm not a dirty girl, adventurous girl,
but listen, to keep a marriage spicy, you have to
stay at venturous. Well, I get out, by the way,
anyone listening Leslie Thomasina. Her name is Leslie Thomasina. Dapiro
(03:32):
no is smoking hot. Bob has a rocking hot wife.
And she was just in the Vagina Monologues in Nashville.
You were there, and you were in the vagina audience,
and I was laughing. I was, I was, I was
in the vagina. I never knew how much I loved
vaginas until I saw you in it. All vaginas. We
have vagina crushes on each other. There you go. Do
(03:54):
you need to tell Bob something? Well I was going
to tell him. I gotta go running over the other clients. Well,
see you get home. Look how cute you guys are?
We okay, get that dirty love ready for when he's home. Okay,
So it's inspired by a conversation. Yeah, And songs are
(04:16):
usually to come about you have to get really deep.
But that's I mean, what's interesting about co writing is
that the subject matter might mean something to me that's
totally different from what it means to my co writer.
You know, where maybe Fancy was just thinking about some
(04:36):
dirty love, but I was thinking about this other thing.
But you know, you put the minds together and something
bigger shows up, you know. So we're sitting here in
this room we're calling it the Bunker, which is your studio,
and literally wall to wall of songs that you have written,
(04:57):
like huge freaking hits. You've had fifteen number one, fifteen
number one songs. Let me throw some of those out there.
American made by oak Ridge Boys. That was your first
number one song, first number one song in nine three.
I was wow you were born, then I'm sold. Okay.
(05:19):
You're from a steel manufacturing center of Youngstown, Youngstown, Ohio, Youngstown, Ohio,
which used to be Did your family work in steel? No,
believe it or not, there were. We were one of
the very few families who didn't. My my dad actually
was a foot doctor, a pediatrist. Yes, he was a
(05:42):
foot doctor. And my mom was a housewife. She was
a stay at home housewife. Okay, so how did you
discover this love of music because you also went to
music college, I did you know, and you were in
hard rock bands, yes, or bands that I mean. I
went through a series of bands, you know. But it
(06:04):
started out, you know, like so many people of my age,
my vintage, Uh, seeing the Beatles on TV for the
first time, that was it. I was blinded by the light.
I mean, it was just like, okay, I want to
do that. What about that excited you? Well, the music
(06:31):
was more like magic to me at the time. You know,
it's just how do they do that? And they were
smiling and girls were screaming at them of course of
course blooded American male, Yes, and uh, it was it
was that. And so, like everybody else, I bought a
(06:54):
guitar and went into the garage with my brother and
some of his friends, and we had this not really
good band, you know, and we played Beatles songs and
and I it just never stopped for me. Yeah, I sang.
I started out I'm going to tell you something you
(07:15):
don't know. I started out as a ROADI. I think
I was the first official ROADI really for your for
your brother's bandy my brother's band. Uh. They had gotten
a New Year's Eve gig. I wasn't playing in that band,
(07:35):
but I so wanted and and we were so young
that none of us drove. So the drummer's dad came
over to pick my brother up, and while we were
waiting for him to show up, my brother was like,
you can't go. He's really like, that's so it got
(08:00):
You can't You're not gonna go. You're not gonna go.
And and Ralph Desimon was the drummer's name. His dad
showed up and he opened the door, came in the
house and goes ready to do. Yeah, how about you, Bobby?
You ready? I'm not going? Well why not? Well, Don
said I couldn't go. Of course you can go, come on,
(08:22):
and my brother's like dash. I just Thenity took the
open opportunity and I just jumped in there and she
started being the ROADI eventually got asked to be in
the man No I. Eventually, while I was a roady,
I eventually picked up a tambourine and I would kind
(08:42):
of play it off to the side, you know, and
I'd inch up a little bit more. I totally it's
my way in the story of my life. Hey, but
I mean, Bob, it's not like there's a whole lot
of options in the steel town of Ohio, right. No,
there wasn't. But I was just in this. You're the
(09:03):
I'm the younger brother, and I just I just had
to be involved. I just had to be involved. So
I was practicing guitar and doing all this stuff, and
I just had to be involved. And that was so
I got into a band. I got into that band,
and and then he went to the music college. Did
the band ever getting success? Or was that just like
(09:24):
the gateway drug into the world? It was. It was
kind of a gateway drug. But that band went through
several incarnations, and my brother and I were playing together,
and then we started yet another band with the same
Ralph I was telling you about, and another Ralph. We
(09:44):
had Ralph and Ralph. Did you we should have? Oh
we weren't smarter? That so much smarter? So you go
to college, go to college after this band, and do
you start really studying music? Yes, I mean the band.
You asked me if we had any success? We got
hooked up with a lead singer who was also from
(10:06):
the next time, but he was older than us, and
somehow he had gotten some kind of for cocta record
deal from from this very unknown label called Paula Records
in Shreveport, Louisiana, and so somehow they didn't want a
solo singer. They wanted a band. So he said, you're
(10:26):
my band, and so we flew down to Shreveport, Louisiana
and started recording, and nothing really came of it, excepted
I started to see a scratch. Oh man, I got
a big old dose of it, and I loved every
minute of it. So came back and and Youngstown State University,
(10:48):
which is where I went and where I graduated from,
had a small part of that school called the Danas
School of Music and it and I was, I was just,
to be honest, I was just trying to stay out
of the army because they had the draft back then,
and I was I was not into what was happening,
(11:10):
you know. So I just hung onto my draft deferment
by going to school and I'm going, well, I'm here.
I love music, and so I started taking music courses
and I I was like so many musicians. I couldn't
really read music hardly at all, but I had a
really good I had developed an ear so that I
(11:31):
could hear something, I could play it back, so I
would fake a lot of but I just heard it,
you know, and I could get pretty close to it.
And so yeah, I went there and I started taking
really traditional theory and harmony. It's not like what we
know today like Belmont offers here, just very contemporary music business,
(11:56):
recording arts, all that stuff. It was just a real
bag that traditional theory and harmony course. And I played
in the jazz Man there, and I studied classical guitar,
and I sucked at classical guitar because I'd sit there
and start practicing these studies, and about twenty minutes in
I'd be writing a song. So that's when you discovered songwriting. Yeah,
(12:21):
I mean songwriting came from for me being in a band.
Everything sprung from being in a band because my heroes
at the time were the Beatles and the Rolling Stones,
and I'd read all their their album covers and I'd
look and it was Lenna McCartney, Lenna McCartney, Jagger Richards,
Jagger Richards, and these guys write their own songs. So, well,
(12:44):
if you're in a band, you write your own songs. Okay,
I'm gonna write my songs. Were you good at writing
songs in the beginning, I don't know. I know, I
mean I was. I guess I could see that, I knew,
I knew how it went, I knew how how the
structure went, and I was I was really good at
(13:06):
seeing images in my head, well just stories in your
head kind of sort of or or to me, I
always described as like a piece of d N A,
you know, like what they do now they can clone
as sheep from one little piece of d N as
Like if I just got a title, that's somewhere that
(13:29):
I can grow the song from. Or if I just
got a little guitar part, well that's another part I
can grow the song from. Or we're talking about something
and I get a feeling, well that's another piece of
DNA that can grow a song. Imagination. I have a
wild amagage very well, But you can grow a whole
(13:50):
song from a tiny little nugget. I guess that's the
best way to describe it. Yeah, I guess it is
inspiration that you can grow it. Yes, I always say
I I pray. When I pray, I don't pray for
a hit song. I pray for inspiration. Ohays, say, God,
just give me the inspiration. I'll do all the heavy lifting.
(14:11):
That's amazing. It's it's what I've done all this time.
And I have friends and and they've got like the
they've got like the secret recipe to coke that they
just keep churning an app But for me, it's always
I'm looking around. I think you have that sec your recipe.
(14:32):
I guess. I don't know. It doesn't feel like that.
It's always a new new feeling. I think that's the
sign of a true person who's not You're not. You're
not satisfied as all you've accomplished, like you're still hungry
for it. Like even though you are in the Songwriters
Hall of Fame, which is huge, you've had fifteen number ones. Like,
how many top tens did you have? I don't know,
(14:56):
Honest to god, I don't know. You've written over a
thousand songs that have been cut by Yeah, that's crazy,
that's stupid. I've written too many songs. No, that's crazy.
You have your you have a star on the Songwriters
Walk of Fame, Nashville's Walk of Fame in between Jimi
Hendrix and Barbara Mandrell, which I always said pretty much
(15:16):
is exactly where I'm at, somewhere between Jimmy Andricks and Barbara.
I love that. Well, So, Okay, you're in this band,
you start writing songs, you go to school, you keep
continuing your craft. What is a moment where you're like,
I'm moving to Nashville to be a songwriter. I was
in college, I was playing in bands at night. I
(15:38):
was given guitar lessons in the late afternoon to pay
the rent. And uh. I had some neighbors who lived
in an apartment where I was living, and they were
also songwriters, and but they were really and then they
were really songwriters. And they started talking about going to Nashville.
(16:02):
So I heard this week, why would you go to Nashville?
Not at all? I mean I knew zero minus zero
about country music, honest honestly, there were I don't remember
any country radio stations up there, or maybe I just
didn't want to hear. I only listen to Top forty
(16:24):
radio and rock and roll. You know, That's that's what
I listened to, you know. And and so to make
a living. I would sometimes I go to the only
recording studio in Youngstown, which was this Polkas Studio. Youngstown
is very well known for their polka bands, if I
had to, I mean, I'm not saying that I don't
(16:46):
like polka, but actually there's many Grammy winners come from Youngstound,
Ohio because it's doing polka. So fact, there's a fun
fact right there, Like rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Oh yeah, that's like trickling down in the Ohio area.
Oh absolutely absolutely trickled down. And during all this time,
(17:10):
I would go out to the bars at night and
listen to the rock and roll bands, and I saw
Bob Seger playing in clubs, and I would see the
James Gang with Joe Walsh playing in clubs. And I'd
come home and I go, I'm so screwed. If every
little talent Youngstown has got guys like that, I got
(17:31):
no chance. But it really informed me what excellent really was.
Started off seeing great right away, yeah I did, and
it really was well and and me and me thinks
you're really good, you know, but and that makes you
feel good, But what is good? You know? And even
going to school and learning the true theory of harmony
(17:57):
inform me what was really exceptional. So I got that
in my head. Okay, that's that's what exceptional is. Joe
Walsh is exceptional. You know. Bob Seeger is really really good.
You know, did you from the beginning put pressure on
yourself to be one of the greats? Like? Is that
(18:19):
the category that you were striving for? Is that the
company that you like? Nothing below that great status would work?
Is that where you set your bar? You know? I
wish I would say yes, but I was just floating
in the music I didn't have. I'm going to be
Elvis Presley. It really wasn't like that. I just wanted
(18:41):
to play music, and I wanted to be in a band,
and I saw those guys and and all I would
think was, Man, wouldn't it be great to be like that?
You know what? It would be so great? And I
would just get this in my mind and think about
it and dream it. So I guess I dreamed it.
And my my dad always said and I had delusions
(19:01):
of grandear. He would he you know, I'd say, Dad,
and I'm gonna go down. I'm gonna write these songs,
and and he's going you have delusions of grandear. You know,
this is gonna burn out and you're gonna finally get
a job. What are you talking about? You know? And
as time went on, these delusions of grand ear became reality. So, okay,
(19:21):
speaking of that, you your friends are in college. They're saying,
we're going to Nashville. You're like, what the heck is Nashville?
What's country music? You start hearing about it, You're like, okay,
I'm coming with you. I didn't they moved, Okay, they
said we're going. They weren't college guys, they were just
street guys, and they said, we're moving to Nashville to
the songwriters and artists. They wanted if there were two guys,
(19:42):
and they wanted to be a duo. They wanted to
be the Everly Brothers or something. And so I kept
in contact with him, and I decided, and I honestly
say this, I knew my car would not make it
to l A, but I knew it could make NATS. Phil,
you should write that song, I know. Actually that's a
(20:05):
great visual. You need inspirations. I mean, I had gone
to New York City to try and peddle this album
we made, and it just I'm not being honest. It
just totally overwhelmed me and NWY it was just like
whoa I was. I wasn't ready for it. But uh,
(20:28):
and then in the meantime, I had started writing songs,
you know, and Uh, I would trade out time with
the only studio in Youngstown. I would. I would say,
you have a bread commercial, Okay, I'll write your bread commercial,
and you give me the studio from ten o'clock at
night till six o'clock in the morning. And that's what
(20:51):
I would do. I'd go in there and record these
record as bread commercial and then I'd record these songs
I was writing. And those were the songs that I
brought to Nashville. Was American made in that batch? It
was not in that batch. No, none of those songs,
none of the songs you're describing, was in that batch.
Let me give you a little rundown really fastest. Some
(21:12):
of the number one songs that Bob Papiro has written
American made. Oakridge Boys, Wink, Neil McCoy, I love that song,
Blue Clear Sky, George Straight, Oh my God, love it,
Daddy's Money, Ricochet, World's Apart, Vince Gill, that rock Won't Roll,
Restless Heart, Little Rock by Reba, Do You Love Me
Just Say Yes? Highway one oh one, Church on Cumberland Road,
(21:34):
Shannon Doah, Money in the Bank, John Anderson, Take Me
As I Am, Faith Hill, Oh my gosh, I love
that song Till You Love Me Reba, their Planner Song,
Neil McCoy, If you ever stopped loving me, begun, re
Gentry Southern Voice, timor Gal. I mean number one songs.
You've had fifteen number one songs. That's not even your
top ten songs, which I won't even go through all those,
because I think you have over like how many top
(21:56):
tens do you have? How many Top Caroline? I couldn't
tell you. I'm not that kind of guy that goes, well,
you know what, I have thirty Top twenties, i have
twenty two Top eight teams, I've got seven Top five.
I know how many number ones I have and after that,
I don't. I'm not counting. It's it's like, yes, I
(22:17):
like number one songs. Number one songs are great. I
love to get more of them, you know, But I'm
just just inspiration for inspiration every day. Yeah, yeah, it's
not about counting the number ones or what and it's
not about what happened. It's to me, it's always about
(22:38):
what's going to happen. So you do not live in
the past. No, And it really pains me when I
see a lot of my contemporaries who do living off
their past achievements. Well yeah, not that that they shouldn't
be saluted. No, they should be saluted. But I mean, well,
back when I was having my big success, music was
(23:01):
so much better. This music sucks now, you know. It's like,
come on, man, you know there's good. You know, there's
good everywhere, and there's bad everywhere, you know, and and
they kind of get caught in that space, you know.
But I've always wanted to just move forward. And I
saw that you said you always want to stay relevant,
(23:22):
And what how do you do that? Because you have,
how have you done that? And what is your secret
for staying relevant? I just try to keep a student's heart.
You know, A student is always learning and just when
I when, if I ever think I know it, then
I'm screwed. Because to me, to be relevant, you have
(23:45):
to always be learning. Everything is, everything's always changing. The
language changes, you know, how we speak today. In two
thousand and sixteen, is not how we spoke in nineteen
three or nineties or two thousands career since well, actually,
my first song I ever had entered the charts was
(24:09):
Reba McIntyre song called I Can See Forever in Your
Eyes that I wrote by myself, and it was like
en eighty two or and yeah, it surprises me, but
you know, you you learn the language of music. In music,
there's only so many chords, especially in country music. It's
(24:32):
like primary colors as far as the harmony and the melodies.
You know, you get to other types of music and
there's pale blue, there's smoky, dusty roads, youngstound, I mean
youngstanding country music. They're very primary. But within those primary
colors are so many alternatives. And that's what keeps it
(24:56):
fresh for me. And also love working with the new
kids in town. I love it. It's it informs my
mind and informs my brain and informs my musicianship, it
informs my tech brain. You know, it's just Okay, that's
(25:19):
what these guys are thinking about, and okay, that's how
that's how we're speaking now, and oh, this is a
gear that's really working. You know. Although I still if
I followed everybody, I would wouldn't be here. You know,
I follow myself. Yeah, I learned, you know, I write
(25:43):
with Craig Wiseman, I'm learning, you know, if I write
with Fancy, I'm learning, you know, if I write with
someone of that stature, I'm learning what I'm right? How
amazing because a lot of people with your kind of success,
I feel like I'm the big wig. I'm the alpha
of this co write and as you are. And it
(26:05):
works for that for those people, and that's cool. But
I've always tried to offer writers who might look upon
me as the big kna a welcoming space. Look, we're
both staring at the same blank page here, you know,
(26:27):
we're both starting nowhere. Let's go somewhere together. So you
come in with just no ego, and I try not to.
You know, if someone starts egoing out on me, and
it really rarely happens. I can be a big ego
to jerk if I need to be, I can, But
(26:49):
I don't like me as that, and I don't choose
to be that. Okay, so you got to Nashville because
your car wouldn't make it to California. How long when
did you show up in Nashville? I started making trips.
I started making trips to Nashville. Like two years before
I moved to Nashville, I came down to visit my buddies.
(27:12):
Then I came down again, and I brought some songs
with me, and I started just what everybody else who
has ever made it or who's ever gotten the music
business does, knocked on doors. You knocked on doors literally
embarrassed or scared I was going to be in the
(27:33):
music bus. You had no like nervousness about that. No, Honestly,
after after getting through music school, which I had no
business being in, and actually graduating, and being under that
much pressure and that much scrutiny, and after seeing all
(27:55):
these great artists who went on to become icons, I
was isn't afraid. I was like, I want this, you
gotta go. I just I was thrilled just to be here.
But I had to get somewhere. So, you know, nobody
sent for me. You know, people say, you know, Jed
(28:17):
Atkins didn't call me up and say, Bob, we really
need an Italian hillbilly down here. You know, I just
I just showed up. And I was a rock and
roll guitar player, and I literally had zero knowledge of
country music. You know, so many people say, oh, well,
look at all these guys today moving here from l
(28:38):
A and other pop guys. They're just track guys, and
I wonder if they're gonna have a track guy hall
of fame, you know. And they're just these young guys
and they think they know everything. Well, I was that
young guy who thought I knew everything, and I was
I was a rock guy, and they needed some rock.
They needed some life in country music, and I was
(29:00):
the guy to bring it, you know. So so I
just I did. I would literally walk up and down
the street. Do you think you dazzle people with your confidence?
Do you think they gave you a shot because you
were so confident? I don't know. I wasn't like get
a lot of this. You know. It's like, wow, am
I glad to be here? And man, I am I
(29:21):
glad you're talking to me? And here are some songs
I really like? And I was being honest. So how
did you get your first big break before the cut,
first big number one? How did you get your break
into the country music industry? Well, I had moved here
and I was making my living in Nashville, being a
(29:42):
guitar teacher, teaching guitar two kids after school, you know,
and uh, you know, they show up, I want to
learn back in black, and I teach it back in
black or I want to learn. So that's what I
was doing to make a living. But then I got
(30:03):
hold of a billboard magazine that said Combine Music looking
to expand its pop arm and I went, oh, I'm pop.
You know. So I was not affiliate with bm I,
(30:24):
but I had met someone from bm I, Jerry Smith,
and so I called him up and I said, hey, Jerry,
I'd really like to talk to somebody at Combine Music
because it says right here in the magazine that they're
they're looking to expand their their industry bigger than country.
And so Jerry made an introduction to Al Cooley, who
(30:46):
was the song plugger, the general manager at Combine Music,
home of Chris Christofferson at the time and Larry Gatlin
and blah blah, Dolly part and blah blah blah. Very
small independent company, was not a corporation, And so he
made me this this appointment, and I showed up with
(31:08):
my tape and I gave it to Al Cooley and
I'm sitting there and he plays it and he goes,
hold on hold of state right here, and he runs upstairs.
I don't know where he's going, comes back downstairs and
he says, all right, come upstairs with me, and he
takes me upstairs and he takes me in this big office.
(31:29):
And there is this guy named Bob Beckham who was
the publisher, the main guy of this publishing and Combine music.
And he kind of had his own language. You know.
He was from Oklahoma. I never met anybody from Oklahoma
from Ohio, you know. And he's, ah'm I shtaying the
(31:50):
sun fire are all I could all I could make
out that what he was saying was and and we're
gonna make a lot of money. And he dismissed. He
heard it, and so he thought you had something. He
thought I had something, And so did he sign you
to publishing. He said, you're welcome to come here. You're
(32:12):
welcome to come here. Any time you want to drink
the coffee, hang out, You're welcome to come here. So
I was the quintessential hair and a biscuit man. I
was there and I was hanging and I was drinking
the coffee, and yeah, I was you couldn't get me
(32:32):
out of it, man, he said, you said, yes, sir, yeah,
You're welcome to hang out. And and luckily at the
time there were guys like me, guys who had come
from different parts of the country who were trying to
do a similar thing. They were trying to write. They
were trying to figure out my artist and my writer.
(32:53):
What am I? All I know is that I love music,
and I met like minded guys. You know. I met
Steve Earle there, who has just come to Texas, and
he played me Devil's right hand right after he wrote it.
And I'm like, oh, it's screwed I write that, you know,
but it once again, it informed me about that's what
(33:15):
is excellent. I know that I feel that you can
tell an excellent song because I feel like I've been
a song pucker and listening to hear what hits are.
Sometimes I cannot tell what I Honestly, I can't tell
all the time. When I wrote Blue Clear Sky, I
liked it, I didn't think, yeah, I didn't think it
(33:37):
would ever go to somebody like George Strait, and I
never thought it would be be the title track of
the c M A album of the year. I liked it,
you know, and I remember pulling the faders. I'm going, wow,
this is a good song. But it never occurred to
me this is the number one smash, you know, because
I had other songs I thought were much better and
(33:59):
no one even responded to. But there were certain songs
that would just oh man, that is such a hit
that it's once again, it's hard. It's hard for me
to say. Uh. I thought Southern Voice that I wrote
(34:22):
with Tom Douglas was crazy good, not good. I thought
it was as good a song as I could humanly
right at that point. And I thought it said something
that meant something but had been said differently in a
way that had not been said before. And I thought
(34:46):
that's really unique and different and I think it's excellent
and I and then we can translate that into music.
Row language was that's a hit, you know. So I
was pretty certain that was a hit song. Yeah, And
and there have been others. I mean, I really loved
(35:06):
the song you mentioned really early in my career that
rock Won't Roll. It was just like, oh man, this
is so cool. What a good idea. Yeah, it was
a great idea, and it's a perfect example of Keith
Digging because I wrote that with John Scott Cheryl and
we had written this song called that Rock Won't Roll.
(35:33):
The whole song finished done, and we went back and
listen to it and said, man, there's nothing good about
this song except the title. So we just scrapped that
whole song. And because once you built this little creature
that is a song, well it is scary, but I
(35:56):
think it's it's prageous. You have to know when to
hold them. Yeah, there's a difference between stupidity and fearlessness.
I don't know what we're that like, truly, truly, but
I mean I think we both felt as such a
cool idea that we just scrapped that whole song and
(36:17):
started over, and thank god we did. Yeah, I think
we once again, I wrote a song about love but
wrote it in a way that may not have exactly
been said like that before. And you you make me
think of something interesting. I feel like sometimes on music
Row people can get into the habit of just showing
(36:39):
up with their co write, working for four or five hours,
calling it a day, and just like, oh, that's okay,
that's that's good, that's a fine song. But really, sometimes
you do have to put in the extra effort and
really like work harder because you can't get into an
easy routine. I felt, not you a particular but songwriter. Yeah,
And and there's a lot to be said for that.
(36:59):
I mean, writers that hit that sweet spot in their career,
it's like they can do no wrong. Everything they're writing
is getting recorded or getting listened to, and it's like, oh, yeah, okay,
it's five o'clock, I'm leaving now and fully expecting the
song to be recorded or looked at, you know. And
(37:20):
that's a portion of a career right there. But I
know what you're saying, but I think some songs don't
need to be reworked or rewritten. They're just blue Curt
I mean, yeah, blue clear Sky. We never changed the word,
never changed the note of melody. It was as it
(37:43):
was written. Oh shoot, yeah, absolutely. I think I think
in the creative process there's there's talent that's involved, and
there's when you become you know. I always said that
a trained seal can write one number one song, but
(38:08):
to write three, four, five and beyond, something's going on,
and I think that is talent. I think it's just perseverance,
you know. I think it's expecting a miracle, you know,
and luck is involved. Cannot say that that's not part
(38:33):
of it, or some people might call it my better
angels or it's my luck. But something helps. Do you
feel like you have to be open to receiving that
extra help? Oh? Yeah, I think so. I mean yeah,
I mean, I'm I'm a I'm a very I'm a
spiritual person of a problem with organized religion, but I
(38:58):
feel it. I believe, and songs are magical. Yeah, and
it really I think Keith Richards in his book really
described at least to me, it made sense where he
said that he feels like an antenna and he's just
got it up there and he's just waiting to receive
(39:18):
and it's like a radio and sometimes you can't get
the station, and sometimes you can hear parts of it,
and sometimes it's loud and clear, you know, and just
I just try to be open, you know. Oh, it's
a great book on for creative people too. I mean,
it's his version. There's no one way, there is no
(39:40):
one that is the truth. And actually, like talking to
people like I've gotten to do with the podcast, you
hear their stories and it's all over all over the map,
and that's good. It is because there is no one way.
Perseverance I think. Yeah, I think somebody said, you know,
if you want to get to California, you can walk
and take a bus, you take a jet, you take
(40:03):
a private jet. You could back, you could you could drive,
and you'll get there. But there are just so many
different ways to get there as long as you get
to California. About your car breaking down in Nashville, I mean,
you got that's your next infiration, Bob. I just like, Okay,
so you're the hair in the biscuit. That's where we stopped.
I kind of your hair in a biscuits. So I'm
(40:24):
hanging out this and I'm I'm running into guys like me.
But when you're much younger and hadn't started, Yeah, you know,
twentysomething guys that come from all different parts of the country.
And it's the first time I really met guys from
the South. Like, I'm from Mississippi, I'm from Atlanta, I'm
(40:46):
from I'm from Oklahoma, I'm from Texas. I'm from Florida. Well,
I thought Florida was Miami Beach. No, Florida is deep country,
you know. And but they all had the same passion
I had, and so it was easy to connect with
them and we both we all wanted to write something,
(41:10):
whether it was for our solo projects or we wanted
to have songs to be recorded by the artists of
the day. And so I fell in with these people
and started writing with them, and I guess I turned
in and those songs that finally this Bob Beckham said,
I want to sign you to a deal, son, And
(41:31):
I love that you're turning in songs that you don't
even have a publishing deal. Oh no, that your heart,
the eager heart. You wanted it. Well. I wanted to
show them. I wanted to show them how serious I
was and and that I'm going to do this and
if you're with me, cool, and if you're not with me,
I'm gonna do it somewhere else. But it was in
(41:52):
my heart to write these songs, you know. And so
finally said I'm gonna give you a deal, son. Yeah,
I'm gonna give you a seventy five dollars a week
every week. I'm like to me, it was because someone
was actually gonna pay me to write songs. That's a yeah.
I'm this guy from Young side Ohio. It was getting paid,
(42:14):
you know, five dollars a night and all the beer
I could drink in a bar band playing brown Sugar
or whatever, the songs of the day word, you know,
and this guy's paying me to write songs. So it
was huge. And and and that's what I That's what
I did. And I told you I was teaching guitar
(42:36):
when I first moved to Nashville. So I would show
up there on o'clock and I just hang out and
and then i'd start making writer appointments and i'd write
with my writer friends until about three o'clock. And then
i'd have to go all the way up to Rivergate Mall,
(42:57):
which is where I taught guitar in this real little
music store, and I would teach guitar to all the
kids from like three thirty two whenever they stopped coming,
you know. And then I'd come home and I right
by Combine to see if anybody was there, and if
they were there, I was there, you know, And I
(43:19):
just I just did that. But you have such an
infectious personality to that that must have really shown how
badly you wanted this. You know, he's got to love
your perseverance. Well, I'm you know, Bob Beckham was an
old school publisher, but a publisher nonetheless, just like I
(43:40):
don't know Detroit Thomlinson is today a great publisher in
our town right now? Or Mark Brown? You know, Uh,
they recognize, they recognized talent and drive. They recognized the package.
Talent is no good about d They recognize it's the package.
(44:01):
He's got, the talent, he's got the drive. Doesn't look
like he's taken over Nancy. And I think he's got
delusions of great You know, when I first moved to town,
I always felt like, how will people know that I
want to be here? You know? And I do agree
with what you're saying. Now that I've been here for
(44:23):
almost twelve years, you can tell when someone wants it.
It's not it's not it's not a regular thing. Not
everyone has the drive. I think that's a key ingredient. Yeah,
I think it is too. And I think it's it's
how you present yourself, you know. I mean, I think
(44:44):
I'm a pretty good guitar player, but I never showed
up with the attitude. Is I'm really hot shot? Elect
a guitar player? Get ready for this? You know or
someone I mean and honestly I'm not this is what
I think, or someone like you. You're very beautiful woman,
but you do not lead with that. You don't lead
(45:07):
with it, whereas a lot of women lead with that,
they lead with the sexual that last five seconds last. Yeah,
but you lead with your heart. I feel, you know,
and I think that's why you're here and where you
are right now, you know, and and all the other
stuff kition whenever you not just all this extra stuff
(45:28):
you got to use, you know. But I think you
lead with your heart, and I think I lead with
my art, and you can, and you can get hurt,
you can, But why why why not put yourself out
there so you can also get grandiose, grandiose life visions
of grandiose. Yeah, that's that. And yeah, so I just
kept working so you got the publishing. How did it
(45:49):
feel when you got inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame?
Starting from this whole journey. Now you've had your all,
your number ones, all your success, and now you're getting
inducted into the Country Music Hall of Fame. I mean,
are you like freaking out? Yes? It really was like otherworldly.
It was like a dream. It's like you dream of
(46:12):
since you were a kid. Yeah, it's like I'm watching
it happen from somewhere up here or something. Wow. Look
there's Bob and they're walking up and people are standing
up and clapping. And I wasn't necessarily in the moment
of Okay, I'm feeling this, I'm seeing this. It's just
like it was almost an out of body experience, you know.
(46:34):
And to see my peers and to see people like
whoever was in the audience, Vince gil Garth Brooks acknowledging
my work and a lot of them have both of
them have both of those guys, and and so it
felt they felt otherworldly. But I didn't feel like I
(47:01):
shouldn't be there. You felt like you deserved it. I
had worked, I know, the the time I put in there,
and I I always tried to do my best work,
and they were honoring me for my best work. What's
your motto a song writing? What's my motto? Yeah? Like
(47:21):
what you're like, go to what gets you up to
do it? Every day? Get up and put your pants on?
Show up, show up? Show up? Does somebody wants to
know the secret? That's the secret? Show up? Are you, okay,
if you have a day where you write a song
that you don't feel like it's great or does that
bump you out? Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm I'm a
(47:43):
competitive creature, just like praying, but everybody else on music grow.
I want to write a great song. But as time
has gone on, I've learned to accept that. I mean,
it's like an athlete. Athletes don't have old metal performances
every day, you know. Football players don't kill it. Cam
(48:05):
Newton kind of sucked in Super Bowl, you know, but
I'm sure he's gonna show up and play again and
make great plays. But it's just part of the deal,
you know. I hate it when that happens, but I mean, yeah,
just show up and just do that be. I really
(48:26):
have never felt that I've competed with. I want to
be just like whoever Rodney Clawson. I want to be
just like Mark Sanders. You know. I've always tried to
just be the best Bob Depiro and mostly I compete
with myself. Yeah, and while being aware of what's around me.
(48:52):
And I think songwriters are like reporters, you know, we're
just reporting on on what we've seen and what we've
you and what we hear and what we think. You know,
we're this is the daily news. Okay. So in the
middle of all this, you had there was a moment
where you were the songwriter of the Year multiple times.
(49:15):
What songs were a songwriter of the Year for which
is a huge procetious honor for Nashville to be honored
by the entire community of songwriters, all of like the artists,
it's the whole the whole town. And you were the
songwriter of the Year. I can't be honest, I can't
even tell you what those songs were. I knew. I
(49:36):
know during that period of time there were songs like
Blue Clear Sky and Daddy's Money and World's a Park
I had written with Vince. And you also got the
Triple Play Award for a couple of times during this
which is where you have three number ones within one year,
And I think, did you have a double triple play?
I had two, had earned to Triple Play awards. So
(50:00):
in two separate years, you've had three number one. That's
a big freaking deal. It was a big freaking deal
for me, for anyone. Yeah, I mean yeah, And you
know these days guys are getting multiple number multiple triple
plays a lot. But I think that's a that's the
(50:22):
result of the fact that our whole life is sped up.
You know that that our whole media wheel, our whole
radio wheel has just sped up, and they're just spitting
them out as soon as they get to number one, next, next, next, next, next,
and the guys that are in the golden circle, or
(50:43):
it's time for me to get them, you know. But
I was, I mean I never I never had it
in my mind that I was gonna get three number
one records in a year, or do it twice. I mean,
that's insane. Okay, So I'm looking at Cleopatrick Lean Denial.
I love that song from Pam tell us you guys
were married from we were married for it was seven years.
Were did you just write songs all the time when
(51:05):
we were around? I mean, when we were in songwriting mode.
Was that harving marriage an artist who's traveling all the time. Well,
I can only speak to my experience, and my experience
was that when Pam's career as an artist started, I mean,
(51:27):
she had really been at it trying to become an artist,
and she got out to l A for a rock
pop Madonna type deal at the time that didn't work,
and so she had been at it. She'd been knocking
at it. But when but when she started dating, she
was not quote unquote famous. She was mel Tillius's daughter.
(51:48):
That's that was the extent of her fame. And I
was already in my role as a songwriter of note,
you know. But Pam has always been a great songwriter,
you know. So as soon as we got married. The
day we got married, her first single, Uh, Don't tell
(52:13):
Me what to Do went number one. Yeah, I mean
too wish I had written it. And and immediately we
she was shot out of a kid. She's on a
rocket and she's starting out. So her hubby, Bobby is
playing in the band. I played guitar in the band.
(52:38):
We travel on the road. Melt Tillis for his wedding,
President Us gave us, gave us one of his old
tour bus, and it's a it was a old tour
of us and its still had bus seats in it,
you know. But we have a bus, you know. So
we just took off and and all of a sudden
(52:59):
we were on the road more than we were home.
It was fun until it wasn't fun, you know. Yeah,
I mean there was a time when we were really
killing it as a couple, but there was always this
competition thing going on that I was always I'm not
(53:20):
saying anything bad, but I was always like, hey, we're
a team. Isn't it a great gay for us? You know?
And the h and we were killing it, you know.
I think at one time two of us had half
of the top ten with her stuff with my stuff,
with our stuff together. Uh and uh, like I said,
(53:45):
it was a lot of fun until it wasn't fun anymore.
And and just what happens, you know, there's it's not
a cliche that people break up that are in show business.
I mean there's sometimes there's it's just impossible situations you
find yourself in. Why is that that so many people
(54:06):
break up and show business? But I think that's just
the same because people just break up in general. People
do break up in general. And I think you're right,
and I think it's just because they're famous and people
love to follow people who work not even famous, but celebrities,
and they get invited in their relationship like the Kardashians
(54:29):
and celebrities. You know, they they don't do anything but
they're they're celebrities people though they are, you know, and
I think that kind of spotlight on you personally in
your life. I mean, being married is hard enough without
somebody looking through your windows while you're being married, truly,
(54:52):
you know, and that at least this is my experience.
I'm not Dr Phil or anything, just my experience that
added to the insanity and the success we were having
was just just beyond beyond, you know, and all that
(55:14):
rolled into one and all the all the little devils
that come out from that, you know, envy and oh
look at that pretty women, look at that pretty guy,
all that stuff. Yeah, when you're on top, everyone wants
everyone watch every and everybody is in your ear, and
(55:34):
all of a sudden, sometimes the voices start screaming. I guess, well,
sometimes you start listening to them more than you listen
to your wife, or you start listening to your husband.
You're listening outside of the marriage, and you're putting more
weight on those voices rather than your own voices as
(56:00):
a couple. In a married couple, you know, well, I
guess it's easy to get lost in that big fog
because so many people are involved with you as a
brand and a product, and yeah, you're invested in your life. Yeah,
and it's it's such a it's it's it throws you off.
It threw me off balance, you know, because all these
(56:24):
people are invested in your life and all of a sudden,
it's just overwhelming, you know. And you know, drugs and
alcohol didn't help. So was that happening? Oh yeah. Do
you think there's a way to be moderate or is it? Oh? Yeah, absolutely,
(56:45):
it's hard to be moderate sometimes because it's don't you
feel like, in a way in this industry it's okay
to like And I'm not talking about Pam, I'm talking
about me, right, right, right. Don't you think it's sort
of like okay to drink every day? And well that's
the deal. I mean, that's you are right, you know.
You know in corporate America you have to take piss
(57:09):
tests and and they check you to see if you're high.
And here it's almost like you gotta mark against you
if you don't drink. You know. I remember going to
my later later publisher and telling her, listen, I've got it.
I've got to check out. I'm I've got to go
to rehab. I'm really in trouble and I'm gonna go
(57:30):
to rehab to deal with this. And and she was
like on the phone and hang her phone up, putting
her leash on her dog, and she goes, oh, that's great. Uh. Tommy,
someone who's the head of a record label in New York,
he just went to one and he said he had
a great time. I'll see when you get back. And
she just walk out and tell her I'm I'm spiraling
(57:55):
out to get and she goes, okay, bye. Or I've
heard people say I love to sign a writer if
they're going through a divorce because the inspiration is the
chance the pain. So yeah, and I haven't you had
another old publisher just had this this slogan of pain
(58:15):
and beauty. It's pain and beauty. Be upset? Yeah? Yeah
are you? Are you really upset? Book yourself today? Yeah.
So anyway, I'm not blaming anybody but me, you know,
but that's that's involved. So, so you decided to cut
drugs and anocohol out of your life at some point,
that's right. When did you decide? When did you decide
(58:37):
it was time to like xanay that when I felt
that I was dying. Yeah, I had gotten that bad.
It's not like I woke up from a hangover one
day and said, I don't want to feel like this anymore. No,
it was bad. It was bad, bad. You know, all
(58:58):
of the major food groups. I loved them all, Like marijuana.
I was awakened, bake kind of guy. Did that help
you write songs? No? I thought I did. And and
to me, cocaine was this was this exotic, taboo drug.
(59:20):
But that Dwayne Almand did a lot of cocaine, and
I loved Dwayne Almand, Keith Richards feel a lot of cocaine,
and so I want to be like them. So I
guess I'm gonna do cocaine, you know. And I did it,
and I liked it and everything else that was there,
and of course alcohol was always there. And so at
(59:42):
the end of my marriage to Pam Uh, as soon
as we got divorced, all of a sudden, I was
partners in an independent publishing company called Little Big Town,
which is where a Little Big Town got their name
from our publishing company because it came and asked us, well,
you're not using your name and where can we use it?
(01:00:04):
Which I came up was I came on, and so
we had sold this company to Sony a TV, like
so many corporations gobble up companies. And I just got
dumped on this gigantic mountain of money. And I'd just
(01:00:24):
gone through a divorce, and I was nuts, and I
had nobody to be accountable to. I was living here,
my family was in Ohio, and I just went down
the rabbit hole and I, you know, I had a
housekeeper tell me that. You know, I was always afraid
(01:00:45):
I was going to come to clean your house and
find you in your bed dead. Yes, and and so
thank god I recognized that. And and so I didn't
know what to do about it. And so I called
my old friend Steve Earle full Circle, who I knew
(01:01:07):
it had gone through this and more. But I called
him up and I said, Steve, Man, I'm I think
I'm in really deep trouble. I think I said something
funny like I'm surrounded by the Prudian Army or something
like that. You know, I can always make fun of anything.
And I said, but I don't know what to do.
And he said, well, man, I wasn't just you go
(01:01:31):
to rehab. And there's this place in Minnesota called a
Handley Hazelton and that's a great place. And I went there,
but still in my brain at the time, I was going,
I'm not calling to Minnesota in February hitting me. So
I started looking around, you know what. I found a
branch of Amiston in West Palm Beach, Florida. So I
(01:01:54):
think I'll go there. You know, I had nothing to
do and help. I'm in trouble. But where's yeah, I mean,
where's the sun? I want to go there. You know.
If I would have known about Eric Clapton's rehab place
in the Caribbean Islands, I would have gone there, you know,
But I didn't. I showed up there and and did
(01:02:15):
you get it right the first time? I got it
right the first time. I have no idea why. Well,
I think they isn't it part of the saying that
you have to want it yourself? Yeah? I think they
say you have to be willing. Is only the dying
can be to want it, you know. And I was willing,
and I was willing to do anything. Are you just
(01:02:40):
so ready? I was just so ready? I was. I
had scared myself sober, and I knew I couldn't do
it myself. And so I went there and I was
still an asshole. When I first got there, a bunch
of bullshit Psycho Babbo. I think this is a cult.
It sucks, you know. And then one day while I
(01:03:02):
was there, I just woke up and I was like, wow,
I think this can help me, you know. And I
just and I have no idea why I've been sober
this long? How many years have you been sober? A
couple of weeks ago was fourteen years. Knowing that I
could leave this interview and go jump off, that's the thing.
(01:03:26):
It's a daily every day. Some days it's so easy,
I never think about it. And some days it's not
so easy. But that's part of the deal. But I
know this. I know that had I continued on h
I would have probably died and I would never have
(01:03:48):
met Leslie. Who's your wife? Now? Who's my wife? Now?
It's probably my first sober relationship, it's probably since high school.
And she's like beyond, I don't deserve her, you know,
But I was. I was clear headed, and I was sober.
I'd been sober for a couple of years before I
had ever met her. And that's when I found that.
(01:04:12):
I always thought that I wrote all these songs because
I did drugs. But what I came to find out
was I wrote all these songs in spite of doing
all these drugs, because after I got clean and sober,
I went on having kept having hits, kept having the
you know if you ever stopped loving me? And and
(01:04:32):
Southern voice and on and on and on. So it's
got a huge moment of like relief in a way,
and then also like freedom. It's it's a feeling of
awakening and knowing something I didn't know. You didn't have
to depend on anything anymore. Yeah, and just I had
(01:04:57):
this all wrong? Really, what did you have wrong? I
thought that if I got high that it was cool
and and it helped me be here. And all my
friends drink until they fall over, and I want to
hang out with them, and so I'm going to drink
until I fall over. Well, some of my friends can
do that and then go home and they're over it.
(01:05:18):
But me, I keep going, you know. So I figured
that out about myself and uh to do something about it. Yeah,
but I'm not strong enough that I can pull this
off myself, you know. So I do all to do.
I go to the meetings, and thankfully my wife has
(01:05:41):
been a great help. You know, she gets it. She said,
what I call a civilian she doesn't have this is
um and uh, you know, and most of my friends
get it. They all get it, and I'm don't and
(01:06:01):
I'm not that good of friends with them anymore. Yeah,
that's amazing. I mean, that's almost probably it's big of
accomplishment as these songs on your wall. It is to
me knowing what I know now. I mean, I get this,
I get this. I know it's amazing. Literally has like
(01:06:24):
fifty number one time. I really I get this, and
I'm now able to take in or before I didn't
know what I was taking it. You're just in it.
I was just high. I was high and I was
in it, you know. So here we are, sixteen and
I just got done writing a really good song today
called dirty Love. Okay, so we gotta wrap up, even
(01:06:44):
though it's been an hour. I want to talk to
you forever because you probably are one of the most
interesting humans on earth. Your story is so colorful. Yes,
I'm a colorful guy. You are a colorful guy. Look
at my phone. It's colorful. So I like to end
all of my interviews with something I call leave your Light.
(01:07:07):
So leave me some inspiration, like inspire us with something
that means something to you or has inspired you, or
that you want to inspire on others. I think if
you want a life in the creative arts, especially in
the entertainment business, whether you're a songwriter or or an entertainer,
(01:07:32):
always have the heart of a student. Be willing to learn,
be willing to try stuff that you've never tried, you know,
be open to it. And have fun while you're doing it,
because sometimes that fun is all you're going to get
out of it. So have you know, have a good
time while you're doing this. Have fun. I love that,
(01:07:53):
even if funds all that it is, yeah, because there's
a lot of times, you know, write a great song, man,
we had a great time and nothing ever comes to
the song, but we had a good time while we're
doing it, you know. But go after what you want,
go after your dreams. Don't be afraid to ask for
what you want, and be the hair and somebody's biscuit.
Be the hair and somebody's biscuit. Just show up. And
(01:08:15):
I will say that there's a fine line between stalking
and networking, and you need to find out where your
line is. That line between being a pest and pestering
and networking, or how to speak to somebody or how
to show up just enough or at the right time.
(01:08:38):
That is an art. It's it's very much part of
being in the music business and you can figure it out,
but you have to know who you are, so if
you don't find out. Thank you so much for interview.
Thank you, Caroline. I enjoyed every month. Carol Love. She's
(01:09:02):
a queen of talking. No one can Carol Love. Carola.
Thank you all so much for tuning into hyper Caroline Hobby,
(01:09:24):
I hope you loved hearing from Bob to Piro. He
is one of my favorite humans on Earth, and I
just loved having him as a guest. Next week, I
am freaking thrilled because I have the o G, the original,
the one and only Cody Allen. He host on CMT
and I have loved him and looked up to him forever,
and he gives me lessons on how to host and
(01:09:45):
it's so fun. And then we hear his whole story
on how he got into hosting and how he became
the household name that he is in the CMT sensation,
So y'all get excited for Cody Allen and please tune
in every week and subscribe on iTunes and leave some comments.
Thank you guys so much, See you next week. Bye
(01:10:11):
mm hmm
Host
Caroline Hobby
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