Stevie is everybody’s best friend. Or at least everybody wants to be her best friend. Her smile and laugh are infectious. Then she drops her sense of humor and good time on you, and you can’t be anything short of glamoured by her spirit. Stevie talks to me openly about how life has been amazing and awful at the same time. While in the middle of battling breast cancer, her husband won songwriter of the year. While feeling her worst, she and her husband’s publishing company, Rhythm House (under Jay-Z’s Entertainment Company), started thriving and bringing in multiple #1 hits. Stevie also goes into vivid detail about the time she met Beyoncé at the company Christmas party and talked to her after multiple tequilas... they basically are best friends now lol! What I love about Stevie is her honesty and humor about life. She knows how to take things in stride. She’s not scared of dealing with the truth. She also knows how to really have fun and enjoy life no matter what season or struggle she may be facing, she finds the laughter and light!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
For this week's episode of Get Real, I am bringing
back one of my favorite episodes ea Stevie Fraser. She's
so funny, makes me pee my pants laughing. She has
worked every job in this music industry, country music industry,
from being an intern to her desk was outside of
(00:21):
her boss's office because there's no space for her to
have a desk, but she like created a spot for
herself because she's such a hustler, I'm telling you. Like
then she talks about meeting Beyonce and jay Z and
how she kept really trying to create a conversation with
Beyonce like four times, and it's so funny. Stevie has
these stories in her life that are wild that you
(00:42):
wouldn't believe could really happen until you hear them out
of her own mouth because they're just so funny and
she's such an inspiration. She she's a cancer survivor and
she's a boss. She has a publishing company with her
husband Jesse, who also is a DJ, and goes on
tour with Thomas Rhett. They're awesome, so cool. This interview
is amazing. Check it out. Stevie Fraser, my girl, Hey everyone,
(01:06):
I'm here with someone who's so fabulous Stevie Fraser, what's up?
Everything's up, Everything's up, and everything stays on. I'm like,
that's a true super busy, super bored. No, I'm not bored.
I'm not bored. I would love to be bored for
like five minutes. I know, well I don't. I know
(01:28):
you said if you're not bored, But like that's how
I am. Sometimes I feel like I am so unbelievably busy,
and then all of a sudden, I'll just like have nothing.
But there's always this running list in my head. Always
is there always a running list for you? There's so
I have this app called Wonder List, and in the
middle of the night or it's crazy, I could get
to bed to the actual bed by like nine ten
(01:50):
o'clock and then I'm still awake. I'm like, I have
a puzzle app. I'm like trying to calm my mind.
I'm taking meloton and gummies and I'm just like, okay,
I'm gonna chill out. I have this little meditation meditation
I do I have? UM, I have these U C.
L A meditations that Rita Wilson sent me, and she
(02:11):
was just like, oh, like Tom Hanks's wife, Rita Wilson
slide that one in. Yeah, you know when I got
when I got cleared of breast cancer last year and
Jesse was at the b m My Awards he was
winning Writer of the Year. You have to talk about
that because you had cancer and your husband win Songwriter
of the Year in the same year, Like you've had
just a wild journey. It's so crazy because we were
(02:33):
saying this the other day. It's fine, someone's ringing the
doorbell and I'm just gonna ignore it. It's probably a
package because I have eight seven Sugar and Sunday is
trying to sleep. This is how real it is. Sunday
is trying to sleep. Michael's not home yet, so Pranks
didn't cry. We get packages dropped off all the time.
I need to write a note, please don't ring the doorbell,
but don't, and then Sugar barks. But luckily Sunny sleeps
(02:53):
at We don't have a doorbell, so any commercial that
has like doorbell rings or whatever, Gus has no clue.
And so I'm like, oh, this is awesome. We've never
had a doorbell. But if my phone ings, he thinks
it's the dogs that are coming. To get him and
he loses his mind. He's like, she's hair like nobody.
She loves so much more than me. No, well at
(03:17):
first I was like, he loves you more than me.
She's like no, She's like it's like we have joint
custody and you pay me child support and I'm the
fun parents. Like She's like, he comes over and gets
to play, and you have to like enforce the rules,
like you kind of get the ship into the stick.
Though she's making the money, having all the fun and
you're having to be the disciplinarian that pays. She gets
(03:37):
to be like fun dad, you know, like dad's are
always like, oh what am I gonna do with the kids?
When I get him, I'll take him to chuck e
Cheese And the mom is like, do your homework, Dada,
screw her And I'm just kidding. Love her. I love her.
It's so funny. When we're gone, she's sending us pictures
and I'm like, thank God, I don't have to worry
about this crazy dog because he has a ton of energy,
doesn't he so much? Yeah? Is he like a dog
(03:59):
that needs to be extra size? What kind of dog
is he? He's a Wimer owner. They like to run.
He likes to run, he likes to jump, he likes
to But then it's also crazy. He could have his
brain going a mile a minute and then I'll say,
do you want to sit in my lap? And I'll
get in the couch in the corner and he curls
up in like a little roly poly position. So he's
like the best of both worlds. Yeah, except sometimes I'm
(04:21):
just like having to work and he's like, look at
me pulling blankets off the couch. Yeah, watched me, watch
me back to Rita Wilson and so we were rains
of pores. Everything is good, everything is bad. We were
trying to do IVF and I was doing it at
(04:44):
a clinic that was just starting up at a pretty
reputable place, and I was just like so excited of like, Okay,
we're going to collect some eggs. We're gonna you know,
I have the Bracka geen. So it's the the b
r c A. Jean, my mom has it, um probably
my aunt, I'm not sure, but it's just a gene
that puts you at a higher risk for breast of
(05:06):
varying skin cancer, all these kind of crazy things. And
my mom got diagnosed with breast cancer five years ago,
I think now. And so then we all got tested,
me and my two sisters, UM and me and my
middle sister. I'm the oldest of three. My middle sister
had it and I had it, thankfully, my little sister,
(05:28):
little ast sister didn't. But you'll both had breast cancer.
We did. Yeah, and you had no idea. You only
got tested because your mom had this gene yes and
so for the past five years, well not in the
last year and a half, but I was going to
get tested. UM doing mammograms and every six months, I'll
do a breast MRI I mammogram, mr I mamogram. And
(05:49):
at first Jesse was like, I don't want you to
get tested because I just think it's gonna stress you out.
It's going to freak you out. And I was like, dude,
I want to be ahead of this because it's coming,
like there's no my aunt had breast cancer four times,
my mom or three times, three or four, I can't remember,
but my mom had it. Then my mom got skin cancer.
So it was just like I want to be ready. Yeah,
(06:12):
And he said, living in denial that it couldn't happen,
and my sister, she got tested, knew she had the gene,
but I found a lump and ignored it. So she
kind of your sister came into it like stage there's
it's really weird. It's like stage one to three four,
(06:32):
but then there's like levels in each stage. So she
came into it pretty close to a stage three and
had to deal with a lot of chemo, a lot
of medicine. And it's also really crazy that we all
have a different kind of breast cancer. So like when
people are just like, why haven't we found a care
for breast cancer or whatever, or any cancers or whatever,
(06:52):
it's like there's so many. Oh wow. So it's not
just like you get it's like vanilla ice cream. Here's secure.
It's like it's like vanillailla bean French vanilla. Really yeah.
So she has a hormone lead one I don't, so
she has to take medicine forever. Um, I shouldn't take
any medicine I had. My mom had a triple negative.
(07:14):
My sister had a her too. What's a triple negative.
It's just an aggressive fast it's like a fast growing
But my mom found it very early because my aunt
had it. My aunt and my sister have the same kind.
It's it's just crazy. You can't take medicine. Why isn't no? Um,
so I can't take any hormones? Uh because mine is
(07:36):
hormone fed. My sister has to take a hormone. Yeah,
so like a diabetic can't have sugar. Yeah, it's crazy.
Which it was nuts and and Jesse was just like,
I don't want I don't want to stress you out
because I'm a warrior. I mean, I like, we'll have
a puppy and be like one day he's gonna be
old and he's like, oh my god, what is love?
(08:00):
And I do that too. I'm so I have so
much trouble loving the now me. I'm like anxiety seven.
I am trying to love the now like that is
my goal hardcore because I am so tired of having anxiety?
Are you? Oh? Yes? And I'll just be like okay,
I'm gonna breathe. I'm like looking it up these techniques.
I'll get in a mind space app and I'm like,
(08:20):
all right, everything is fine. And then I'm like, oh
my god, did I ever get to turn off the oven?
I know? And stuff. I'm like, oh, I haven't used
the oven in three days. No, it's fine. I'm like,
I haven't curled my hair. I'm like the curling iron CD.
I run through a list of every single thing that
could go wrong at all times, constantly, and man, I thought,
for the most part, don't worry about it. Oh No.
The other day, I woke up super early to take
(08:43):
a flight, and I'm trying to be all quiet, and
I opened the door and Jesse had left his keys
in the door, and so I'm like, turn on the alarm,
you know, do all this stuff. And then I opened
the door and I'm like, oh cool, he's right here,
you know, it's fine. And I'm like slamming the door.
I'm like, god, I'm cutting us a murder. And he's like,
(09:04):
what's happening. And I'm like like, all night the keys
are just in the door all night long. Oh my gosh.
I know. Meanwhile, I'm like, did you lock the door,
did you lock the bedroom door? Did you like the
door to get to the door to the screen door
that He's like, oh, oh my god, So how are
you combating this? Um? You know, I don't know that
(09:25):
I am. I mean, I think it's just Honestly, it's
the being busy. Sometimes I don't have time to be worried.
That's can we just stop worrying? Like can we just
hand it over to God? That's what I'm trying to do,
Like I'm trying to do these Gabby Bernstein mantras, start
your day off right, like I am blessed, I am abundant,
(09:46):
I am healthy, who I am calm, and just starting
off with that, and then I'm just trying to stay
in the moment, Like I have a big calendar now,
so I write everything down and I stay in ahead
of it, and then I'm like, Okay, I don't need
to run a loop in my head because it's on
the calendar, and like I'm going to write now what
I need to do this day, so then I don't
(10:07):
have to run this loop. Yes, that's why I'm laying
in bed and I'm like, oh crap, I've got to
do this. And then I'm like, Okay, pull the wonder
list app out, put it in the list, and then
you go to bed. But I can do that with
things that I have to do more than I can
do it with thoughts of like why are we here?
What is life? What is the meaning of existence. I
(10:30):
love you. Oh my gosh, why am I thinking this
right now? And I'm it's insane. I'm like, oh, my parents,
they're growing older, and I'm like, I'm getting older. Oh
my god, you can't stop aging. Oh my god, you
can't stop death. And then I'm just like, Okay, I
love you guys, I love you, Jesse, like, I'm just like,
sing a song in my head, go to bed. Stevie's crazy.
(10:52):
I that's the best description I've ever heard of my
own brain. Yeah, it's nuts, because like as soon as
I get the work seven immediate needs to off. It's like,
let's go to the big wide huven world of the
universe of everything that's happening and anything that could go wrong.
But I don't want to think about the things that
can go wrong well, and I don't want to do anymore.
Is like worry about that. It's weird. Though sometimes it's
(11:14):
not even stuff that goes wrong. And here's the thing too,
growing up my parents, my grandparents, which I appreciate and
probably with my own children I would do to a
certain extent. But even my littlest sister and I talked
about this all the time. Like it was you know,
look both ways, don't talk to strangers, don't you know,
(11:36):
like walk to your car prepared and you know, always
look around you be aware of your surroundings, look in
the backseat, lock all the doors, which I appreciate because
it's gotten me through life. And I'm safe and I'm
healthy now and i'm and nothing bad happened to me,
and so I think about like my nephew and nieces
and go, you know, okay, I mean it was to
(11:56):
the point of like, don't park next to a car
that looks like this, Like it was intense, so you're
just like on guard all the time. So it was
like running list of keep myself safe, key checklist, con yes,
And I appreciate that it got me through life, you know,
like watch your drink, don't ever you know. It was
(12:17):
just constant from parents, from my parents, from my grandparents,
like walk to your car with your key's in your
hand like this. It was everything. Here's some mace on
a key chain. Here is so I felt always on guard,
but then always like cool at me, I dare you
you know what I mean. It was just like I
felt completely scared and also like I could be a
(12:40):
badass at any moment. So I was like, oh, I
am ready, but also please don't hurt me, right, So
I can't help but go, Okay, everyone's safe. And then
I'm I take it to the like in degree oh
the universe, like why are we here? What's going to happen?
Is one day our Earth can to just explode from
the that out are we really gonna like all fry up?
(13:02):
Like in global warming? Like I think about that the
fires in Australia, like what's the world's ending? Like, oh
my god, all the animals And then I get sad
and then I have to stop, and then I'm like
depressed for the whole world. I'm like, I'm too heavy
for one person. We watched some like one Strange Rock
I think it was with Smith and it was just
(13:22):
like about the planets and it was astronauts who had
like seen the Earth from outer space watch that. I
was just like, man, this is so fascinating. And then
you're like, okay, where does God fit into this? And
then you're like where what are we here for a
billion years? And then the other day I just asked
Jesse out of blue, I'm like, do you think like
we've got maybe like a hundred years left of the
(13:44):
earth or and he's like what And I'm like, you know,
like like probably not going to be forever, right, And
he's like, I don't know, like you think it'll be
our our lifetime, like our kids, like if we have kids,
is that going to be their lifetime? Like I just
want to know, like you know, how to yeah, like
should we have a kid, because like what if they're
in like a weird time. And he's just like, dude,
(14:07):
you gotta just like let it be. I'm like, yeah,
I know, I know. And I'm like yeah, I'm totally
letting it be. But like, also, what's gonna happen? He's
just like, oh man, it's it's just I can't turn
it off. Ste I love your brain. Yeah. But also
another friend of mine, I was just like, do you
think like this? And she's like oh, she goes, I
(14:30):
wish I could just be like ignorance is bliss, Like
oh my gosh, this day is so great and whatever
happens today and this minute is awesome. And I'm like, oh,
me too, how do we do that? I'm like, oh,
we're too smart for own good like geniuses. So I'm
(14:51):
like I always feel like I it's better, Like sometimes like,
is it it's better to know less? I know, you
just know what you need to know, and that's it. Well,
and and so I've started to take some steps back
away from like knowing too much about politics in the
big scheme. I'm like, Okay, let's bring it down. When
we start to have some local things, I'll learn about
(15:12):
these people, I'll get more involved this way. And then
when it gets to like bigger elections and it's narrowed
down some, it just is too much. Like I'm like,
I can't think about everything. It's too much to think
about on a deep broad level, because like your soul
and your heart can only handle so much. So if
you're thinking about every tiny detail that is possibly out
(15:35):
there that you can gather about politics, if you're thinking
about every tiny detail that is possibly out there that
you can gather about the universe, about like what's happening
in the world, Like what's happening in our lifetime, what's
happening in health, like all the different everything that are
going on in the world help good and bad? What
bad things? And you're just like, if you're handling all
of this on the biggest level. It's too much. It's
(15:57):
so much. We can't handle all that. The other day,
I say, I kind of want to just like sometimes
I want to think about how I would raise a
kid to be just kind of an asshole who doesn't care.
Because sometimes I'm like holding the door for someone and
they just like breeze by, or they'll let it slam
in my face and I'm like, you're welcome, and then
I'm just like, what is my problem? Like, man, if
(16:18):
if I was an asshole, I just wouldn't even care.
And then he's like, yeah, but you could never you know,
Like I just think about you think about people and
every yes and just go from people. I'm like, I
would rather get my feelings hurt being nicer to someone
than go through life and not have the like connection
(16:39):
being a jerk. I get that it's worth it for
the connection. Yeah, And I would want my kids to
be like the kids. I just remember my we had
to say like yes, ma'am, no, ma'am, yes, stuff. And
I remember just having my mom's friends be like Stevie
is so sweet, or you know, I just love when
she comes over. And I remember having friends that my
(17:02):
mom would just be like, I cannot wait for this
kid to go home, you know, And so I'm like,
I would want a kid like that too. I want want,
I want the good. I want this person that feels
a little more empathetic than and gets their feelings hurt,
but is a good human versus just a little a
little tornado and not really caring about anybody else, Even
(17:24):
though it might be more fun to be in your
own tornado because then you just do you all the time.
You kild have a hybrid, if you could be in
your own little world and then still be considerate and
care about the people that you love, but for the
most part you're just operating in your own little universe. Yeah,
maybe that's the ticket. How would do that? I think too. Sometimes,
like working in the business, there's like there's a moment
(17:47):
where you're kind of a sweet asshole because you're a publisher.
Your partner, I got partner with jay Z. We are
are our company is partnered with rock Nation, which is
jay Z's company, And um, have you met j D
jay Z? I did, And you gotta tell your story
because this is my favorite story. So for all listening,
Stevie is a badass publisher. You and your husband have
(18:08):
a publishing company together. And a publishing company is where
you have songwriters that write for you, and they write
songs and then you get them to artists to put
on their basically a a babysitter of grown up humans,
manage their their writer calendars and and pair them. It's
like matchmaking with other songwriters. They come write a song,
(18:29):
give it to me. I take it to the producers
or the artists or the labels and say, please cut
this song on your next record. When I was younger,
I would just like stare at the c D or
the cassette, you know, inserts, and be like, who wrote
these songs? And really, oh, I was obsessed. You're obsessed
with the makers of the song. Yeah, And because at
first you think like the singer wrote everything, yeah, and
(18:52):
then or you just think the songs appear somehow totally.
And then you're like reading all the lyrics and then
you see in the parentheses the songwriter's and you're like,
I don't see Faith Hill on this. Who is you know,
who's so and so? Right? Yeah, who's Stephanie Smith? Who
is this person? And I'm just like, oh my gosh, okay,
And then you come to town and you start working.
(19:13):
And I was in the tape room, which at the
time publishing company at E. M I, which now doesn't
exist anymore, but it was a it was a major
and I got hired to basically burn CDs four song clickers,
which is what I am now. So they would come
to me and say, hey, put these five songs on
a CD. I'd burn it, they'd take it to a meeting,
play it for a person, and they'd say, oh, yeah,
(19:34):
we want to hold these songs and cut them on
the next record. And so is that how you started
realizing that that was the job you wanted? Like, how
did you narrow down what job you wanted? Again? I
came here to sing, so I didn't even know what
a music publisher was. I was like, I'm just gonna
go to Nashville. My Mom's like you have to have
a fallback plan, and I was like, okay, Well, a
friend of mine said you could go to school for
(19:55):
music business and I was like, no, I went to
MT s U. And it was just because a high
school friend of mine went to MT s U. That's
the I was used, Just like did you know you
could go to school? And like learn about record labels
and stuff. I was like, what, so you know from
a young age you wanted to be in the music industry.
Oh yeah. Like when I would meet people or or
date someone back home in Georgia, I'd be like, just
(20:18):
so you know, I'm going to Nashville, so I can't
get too serious. Stevie. I feel like I was the
same way. I swear to you, like I relate to
your story so much. I never thought I was going
to stay in Texas or Wako. I was always going
to Nashville. Always. I knew it was Nashville for me.
All yes, me too. It wasn't like, oh I have
to find out where music is. It was like, I'm
going to Nashville to be a country singer. How do
(20:38):
you find out Nashville? My mom sang when we were younger,
and I would sing in bands and like harmonize for her,
and um she was it's so crazy. She was in
like contest a bunch and then she won a trip
to Nashville to sing at this place called the Nashville
Sound and like one a and then like want a
(20:58):
trip to like sing and sing and sing and sing
and whatever. But um, so I was like, okay, well
that must be where music is made. Yeah, like really early,
I don't know you. I don't even know, Like I
just knew I was singing. Yeah. Like also, my parents
would be like, come out here and sing lavira for everybody,
(21:19):
or come out here and demand a hundred percent you're fearless.
I was like, look at me, I'm singing. Yeah, I'm like,
love me, give me attention, to give me applause, Stevie,
are you for on there? No, I'm a two with
an eight wing. I know, so two is a helper
and an eight is the challenge. That's how you're like,
(21:39):
I'll help you, I love you, but come at me.
I know. It's so weird. I'm like, Hi, is there
anything you need? Don't ask for too much? Are you
better appreciate this? So yeah, I was just like that's
always doing a combo. Well kind of. Then you're like
super empathetic, and then you're like why people appreciate every
(22:00):
think I could do it for them? Oh it's a
it's a headache, isn't It's a blessing and a curse.
It's crazy. Okay, So you're like, I'm coming to Nashale.
Your mom went to the Music Business program at mt
s U and then interned at Warner Brothers. Interning was
a game changer for me? Was it a game changer
because in the music industry it's a way in Yeah,
(22:20):
and the young I mean, honestly, we could do a
lot of jobs without going to school. But there's no
way you could come here and get a job without
knowing what the jobs are, yes, and how to get
into players are and and you don't do that without interning.
I totally agree. I feel like school to me was
worth it for the internships. Belmont and I interned all
(22:43):
interned at Capital Records, I interned at publishing companies. I
interned for songwriters all over the place. And that is
how I learned the music business. But you have to
be in school kind of or no, you don't. I
guess you have to be in school to intern, you do. Yeah,
Like for us, we cannot have an intern who isn't
getting school credit because you're not paying them and it's
um and there's no pay. I mean, let's be real,
(23:04):
nobody here in Nashville is paying people to do anything
I could get for free. Yeah, and for us to
our company is so small even though we're attached to
Rock Nation, everything is us like going, okay, we have
to whatever we pay anybody for anything, whether it's candles
for the office or snacks for the writers, it's coming
(23:27):
out of our red balance. So we have to make
this money back and fill up this hole that they're
lending us to run. So can you get someone for free?
You're gonna get some resolutely, And a lot of those
jobs that you need in your office aren't like you
don't have to have a full skill set yet. You
can just be curious and hungry and you can kind
of teach them how to do it. It's just tedious
(23:47):
stuff like burning a CD a long time, like typing
up lyrics and letting you know writers and artists in
the building and not being a weirdo. I mean exactly basically.
Actually it goes so much further than it's really cool,
but just like a good personality, one that vibes with people,
a good hang, like even in our writers, you know,
(24:10):
like we have We're so lucky that rock Nation has
been so nice to us to be like, hey, we
trust you. We see that you have an eye and
an ear for talent. And Jesse's just killing it, So
it's it's kind of like, let us know if you
need us, so y'all get to run it however you want.
And they just support you and Blacky and they're like,
(24:32):
you fly a little bird, yes, and your big daddy
over here if you need me to drop the hammer,
totally got this. We'll say, hey, we really love this writer.
Here's the music. And before they even listen, and they
always listen, but before they even listen, they're like, do
you like it? Are you passionate about this? Is this
something you just do it? Are you gonna work it?
Believe in it? Because basically they're not in Nashville. That's
(24:54):
not their honeyhole. Like they're obviously killing the rock, the
hip hop world, and the pop world, so it's like, Okay,
they're hiring who they think is killing it in the
country world, which is your husband, Jesse Fraser, who's writing
every number one song in the world, and you as
the publisher running God. You are like a total power couple.
And it's so funny that once he's Jesse gotten, he
(25:14):
has in in country and he had he had the
Kine Brown Marshmallow song. I freaking love that song. What's
up to one thing right, I got one thing right. Yes,
Oh my god, that is such an honest song. Oh
my god. When I heard that song for the first
time Caine singing it, I was like, dang, he is
(25:35):
like really being vulnerable. I know, I know. And I
loved that for him. Loved that for him. I feel
like like marriage and fatherhood is like changing him in
a great way. And it's so fun too, because those
kind of songs, like for our family. For my nephew
who's eleven, he's like obsessed with marshmallow and he's like,
oh my gosh, Uncle Jesse like sending marshmallow geared to
(25:59):
him and he's like, this is amazing. Oh my god,
you like win. It's so cute. Like the first time
Jesse had written south Side with Christap and no, it's
uh that Southbound, but south Side was a tr song,
tam Toms rhette song, and it was in the Chipmunk movie,
and it was like the like Jesse had done all
(26:19):
these things, but all of a sudden, he's cool because
he had a song in a Chipmunk movie. Isn't it
so funny? Perspective? Yeah, yeah, kids, I mean truly, And
now it's like Marshmallows always like cool again. What are
some of Jesse's biggest songs, Uh, let's see um. He
wrote Dirt on My Boots for John Party. My favorite
(26:41):
part is but I can only gift so oh, I
love it. He wrote that one with Rhett Aikins and
Ashley Gorley, and I remember them turning in the demo
and Rhett was singing it and it had such a
no dignity vibe, like it was so kind of hip
hop with just these country lyrics, and I was like,
(27:02):
oh my god, I'm obsessed with this song. And m
and John just took it to a whole other lesson
Party crushed it. It was like made for John Party.
It was so good and I just, yeah, I love that.
I read I always get It's Akins, Yes Atkins Aikins.
Red Aikins is Thomas Rhet's dad. Just really cool because
they write together and Thomas took him on tour with him,
(27:23):
which it's so crazy. T r Thomas Rhet camp. It's
fun like that there's a crew of y'all. Y'all are
like a camp. Y'all are a posse. Yes, it is
we What's so weird is that I first worked with
Rhett at E M. I. So, y'all have been in
business a long time. Yeah, I knew him, and I
remember going no, he writes for Chapel, But I remember
(27:44):
going out to lunch. We were like at J Alexander's
sitting there and he's like, yeah, my son wants to
get into music and I don't know, I don't know
if I want to, you know whatever. And I was like, well,
it's probably gonna happen. I mean, if he wants to,
it's gonna happen because everybody's gonna look at you. At
the time, Rhett had just come out of right all
(28:05):
those big hits, like you know, all the big new
country stuff was coming in. It was like he was
just catching fire again as a songwriter now not an artist. Yeah,
and so he's just like, oh, no, if I want
And I think tr was like fourteen, it was happening,
and I'm just like, WHOA. So you were in on
it from the beginning. But what's weird is that then
we lost touch for such a long time because I
(28:26):
left EM I went to l A Publishing. I've been
publishing for about fifteen years and I left went to
l A. Then I started working with Pat higden Um
once he left a major and restarted up his independent
and it was called Patrick Joseph Music, and we had
a lot of fun and and it was the first
(28:47):
time that I had a person in the music business
who was like such a mentor to me. And I
just kind of was like figuring it out on my own.
Like when I was in the tape room, it was
kind of like, here's your job. Burn CDs, don't make
any waves, just put your head down, do whatever it takes.
And then it'd be like, well, a m I was huge.
Were you telling yourself that or that? It was the vibe.
(29:10):
It was like, okay, the song pluggers do this, you
burn CDs. And then it's like, okay, well I want
to do what they do, so I'm gonna what did
you like about what they did? I just I loved.
Once I got I didn't even know what publishing was.
It was I had internet record labels. And then a
friend of mine was like, hey, this publisher friend of mine,
(29:32):
they need to hire someone. I was getting out of college.
It was like, take the job, whatever the job is,
and then figure out what I want to do later totally,
and so I get in. Yeah, like get in and
whatever it is. As long as I'm on some kind
of creative side, then I'll figure it out. I feel
like that's really good advice for anyone who wants to
(29:52):
be in the music business, Like get in, yes, and
learn the players, take the trash out lust your ass.
Ask what else you can do? Ask if you can,
like if you got a cool vibe in a good hang, yes,
try to go to events, you know, try to go
to like number one parties and like go to Evans
if you can. And network. Yes, i was making like
eighteen grand a year and I'm like, okay, I have
(30:13):
ten bucks extra this week. If I go to this
showcase and I'm watching you know, a writer or artists
try to get a deal. But I see the head
of a label or I see someone in an A
and R department who is going to be a good
contact for me, I'm gonna use that ten bucks to
buy them a bud light. And then that's a that's
a very like cool move. Well because it's like I'm
(30:35):
not getting into kind of like expense account and I'm
broke as hell, but this is if they like me,
then they'll let me pitch them a song one day
were when I get to that level, they're gonna go,
oh yeah, she's cool, Yeah, sure, come on in, you know,
and it did. It did that for me that way
offer you and you can use your internship as you're
like card like, hey, I'm in college, I'm already interning
(30:56):
for so and so so so this, like you know,
you can just be bold lutely. And once I started
at E M I, it was just kind of like, hey,
you know Tom, Tom Lutheran, can I go to a
meeting with you? Or so you just asked, oh yeah,
or are be scared to ask em? I was huge
and had so many songs and songwriters that you know,
once these songs come in and they're brand new and
they're hot, all the pluggers are taking them out. They
(31:18):
want everyone to hear them as quick as they can
because new songs are being written every day and coming
in new. So I'd be like, hey, is it okay
if I pitched these old songs this back catalog and
they're just like, oh okay, that's cute cut, Yeah, I
do whatever. And then I'm like, all right, if I
can buy Brian Wright a beer at Universal and he's
Universal for you know, at the time, anyone like Julie
(31:40):
Roberts or whatever, and and I'm going, okay, maybe then
he'll listen to a song from me for Luke Brian
one day and like wheels turning all the time. People,
this is great if you want to make it happen.
Like you took your opportunity and then you explored every
(32:01):
different door that you can walk through from that opportunity
instead of just going in and showing up and making
your basic job. You're like, Okay, here's an angle where
I can like work harder do something that, say, you
get a cut on the back catalog. And now Tom
Luther in the head of Sony Publishing is like, well, shoot,
he benefits because they're not needing any other song pluckers.
(32:22):
But if you're gonna for full right, but if I'm
going to get some activity. I left the tape room
pretty quickly because the assistant, the creative assistant in the office.
It's like I went from a little room burning c
ds to the hallway where the desk was to be
the assistant, you know, keeping track of all the holds
and all the cuts, and you know, the tip sheet
(32:43):
of who's looking and holds mean that an artist has
heard a song, or someone who represents artist has heard
the song and they like it enough to put it
into the big mix of songs that they're considering to
record for the album. And it kind of lets, you know, like, Okay,
pitch this song. They like it enough to say, hold
that for me, I'm not going to pitch it to
anyone else until they give me an idea of the
artist likes it, let's take it the next step. We're
(33:04):
gonna take it into the studio. Maybe we cut it
in the you know, and record it, and then you know,
that becomes what's on the album or you know, or
it goes off hold and I keep track of that
and go, okay, we can pitch it to the next person.
And so I'm just like going okay. Meanwhile, I'm sitting
in the hallway and Buddy Cannon is listening for Kenny Chesney. Yeah,
(33:24):
and I'm gonna take this song. And I'm sitting there
and the writers really got I love songwriters, and the
writer's really got to know me. So I was sitting
in the hallway one day and I remember Dave Turnbull
brought a song in and He's like where is everybody?
And I'm like, oh, no, I guess they're at a meeting.
I don't know really what's happening. And he's like, oh man,
(33:44):
I've I've just got a new one and it's so
good and I'm like okay, and so I listened. He's like, oh, well,
you know, let'm play it for you and I was
like yes, like first chance. And so he played it
for me and I'm like, dude, this is so good.
I called Buddy Cannon's assistant Um Shannon at the time,
(34:06):
and I was just like, Hey, I have one song.
Do you think Buddy would let me play it for him?
And so you just took action. You didn't even wait
for tom or and hear the song. You're like sitting
there going like if I can do this, if I
get hold, if I get cuts, I'm going to be
a song plugger. You saw your moment and I'm like,
(34:27):
he's gonna happen, Stevie. You jump. You didn't even and
I'm like, I'm probably gonna get in trouble, but I'm
doing it forgiveness later. And that's the way. Buddy, who
am in love with you? Very hard on songs. He
is very hard like. And it's just like, you don't
bring him a lot of stuff, you know, don't overwhelm him,
bring him something away. If you've got a top five,
you narrow it down to three and then you take
(34:49):
it to buddy and he listens and he says, no,
I'm gonna pass on that. Thank you by and he said, oh,
and I took. I said one song. I just have
one song. He said, all right, come on right now,
and a wint person played him the song. Weren't to
leave where, you know, I wasn't supposed to do nothing.
I was like, I'm going. And of course, Dave, it's
(35:10):
just like your songwriters are just like anyone who is
obsessed with the song. They love you right then because
they want because you are their resource to getting their songs,
and they're like, okay, do this girl. And the more
people the better, Honestly. I mean, you could have four
song pluggers. They could all love your song, or they
could be one person to be like this is my
(35:30):
favorite full time, and the other person go, you want
the person on fire. The songwriter wants the person on fire.
So you're the one on fire. Yeah, Rand Buddy, he said,
oh my god, I love this, I'm gonna play it
for Kenny. He said, put this on hold, and I'm like,
I mean it was so that was like, did you
like cry in your car the angels? The clouds parted,
the sun broke down on me, and the angels was like, oh,
(35:52):
you did it. And so you were so bold. You
took somebody risk. You're like terrified, but you were carving
your path. You said, I'm gonna get this. Yes, So
I sent out an e mail and I'm like, you know,
the hold email, which is the holy grail. I felt good,
but also scared, like you might get in trouble. Yeah,
And so you already got it to the head guy,
you know, you know User and Kenny. It's like, what
(36:12):
more can they have done? I only had permission to
pitch old songs that you crossed the line, and here's
a song no one's heard and you took it in yeah,
and I'm like this yeah, And so I was just
like probably, oh my god, I'm so obsessed with you.
So you said, okay, I'm just going to deal with
the consequence. So you sent out to the whole staff,
all the head that you got the hold and waited hold.
(36:35):
The song title the writers Hold for Kenny Chesney per
Buddy Cannon, and yeah, it's not like even like someone
heard it to play for, but you got it to
the top dog. And then I'm getting like, how did
you how did you get this song? Hold? What song
is this? And I'm just like somebody, But then they're like, hell, yes,
(36:58):
Kenny Chesney, he's gonna hear a song long you know
Buddy like to and Hold by Buddy. You could play
a hundred songs and he might like one. And I
played one and he liked the one, and so Kenny
ended up cutting it. It didn't make the record. You
gotta cut on your first pitch, Yes, you little stinker,
I know by Kenny Chesney. It didn't make the record.
But to get a song cut by Kenny Chesny got
(37:20):
me huge a song plug I got. I became a
song plugger because after that they're like, okay, you're already
in the system. Like if they're gonna if they need
a new song plugger, of course they're gonna hire you.
So that's why internships and being bold pay off. Yes,
so you got hired right out hired right after that,
it's like okay, well they you know my spot was
open in the tape room and they're like, fill that.
(37:42):
And then the next person coming out of the tape
room was going to fill the creative assistant position, which
is where I was. And then I got my own office,
and I got a raise, and I got a promotion,
and I got a tiny expense account and like, yes,
I'm not buying beers out of my own pockets, but that,
I mean it was. That was what did it. And
they were so driven and focused and you figured out
(38:05):
how to make the extracept. So many people wait for
someone else to do it for them. I feel like
that is the fatal flaw of people. Like you can
be the most talented person, but if you were waiting
for someone to make it happen for you, totally you're screwed. Yeah,
because somebody else is going to do it around you.
And like, you had the talent and the drive and
the ability to do it, but then you also had
(38:26):
the extra hustle and the extra vision to be creative
and getting in don't have that. I'm like, okay, I'd
rather get in trouble and and have them be like,
don't you know that's stay in your lane. Don't do
that again. Whatever, But you kind of if you know
that you've got a good shot and they really can't say, hey,
(38:51):
don't ever get us Kenny Chesney holds again, you know
what I mean, Like it's like, Okay, that just showed
that Buddy would allow me to come play him a song.
Like whether I got the hold or not wasn't the thing.
The thing was is that I had made the connection
and I had networked enough that Buddy would let me
go directly to him, go to him, and it just
(39:13):
like gave me street cred because they're like shoots, you
can go straight to Buddy. Yeah, because a big deal.
There's like five major producers. No, there's more now, but
there back then, there's like only like a handful of
major producers for sure. So if you have a direct
line of one of those major producers already, then yeah,
you're ahead of the game. And I was already like
making friends in the A and our world because I
(39:33):
was going out to every show. I could get to
every I mean it was exhausting, but going out of
the game and A and on people of everyone listening,
they're like the creative direct They're like what an artist
in a repertoire. They listened for songs like the label Scout,
they find the artists they want to they want to
sign at the label, and then they find their music.
(39:54):
You know, if the artist isn't necessarily a writer, or
even if they are, they know the players in town
who are writing the hits and they're going, you guys
need to get with my new artist, or they're like,
play me the songs that you have that would be
like a you know, George Strait type thing or whatever.
So I was just kind of going, Okay, I'm gonna
(40:15):
be cool to everybody. I'm gonna buy beers when I can.
And then one day I'm gonna get into this spot
and you did it. I did, And then it was
just you have your own little expense account, you got
your own little office. Now your song now what? Now
I'm just well And then I'm newbie. You know, It's
like you go, I was at E. M. I and
(40:37):
then in the in that you know, hierarchy of tape
room assistant, now a plugger. But it's like each place
is brand new, because even though I know everybody in
the building, it's like I've started another job where. Okay,
now you get the writers that you know are maybe
(40:57):
needing more attention or now you're getting the people that
you know everybody's worked with, but it just didn't click,
and so you're I was like in the land of
misfit toys, you know what I mean. And then it
was like, hey, I'm I'm good. If I felt like, okay,
they're all going, oh damn it, I'm getting the new
kid like and I'm going I love everything you do.
(41:22):
Bring me all your songs. Let's go out, let's do this,
and you want to prove yourself. Yeah, and they're like, oh,
this isn't so bad. I'm getting lots of attention. And
because so the more I guess the veteran songbuggers like
it's not they're not as I'm not saying that as hungry,
but like they just have a lot more on their plate. Yes,
and you're trying to me. I'm like, oh, I don't
have anything to do yet, so let me get something
(41:44):
to do. And it's gonna be you, your career, your songs.
And that's where I was really becoming close with Morgan
Hayes at the time, who is now Morgan Stapleton, married
to Chris and Chris was at Sea Gale, which was
our parent company, and Jesse was just kind of how
you met Jesse. We knew each other. Um, we so crazy.
(42:06):
I was married before and I was working at the
Melting Pot while I was going to Oh Baby, Baby,
Yes baby, and I worked at the Melting Pot and
in turned at Water Brothers with Jesse's girlfriend, and so
we all knew each other. And then the music business
is like small, small, small, and so we just kind
(42:29):
of knew each other. And um, after my divorce, I
had five years, six years a long time for a kid,
for a totally, but I think two. I was so
ambitious and I was like, probably if I was a
(42:50):
little bit older when I was doing that, I'm like, Okay,
I need to figure out a balance of my work.
You aren't ready for balance new I'm like, I will
do and go to any show no matter what time
of day. If I have to be out all night long,
get up early in the morning, which you don't really
in the music business, but like I would whatever they say.
So if my home life suffers, so be it. I'll
(43:11):
get to that later. Is that kind of what happened? Yeah,
you just couldn't prioritize he's a good guy. I'm a
good girl. It was just whatever and um, and now
he's remarried and Jesse and I are together, and Jesse
was just kind of starting to write, and so Chris
was having a lot of success as a writer. It's
Chris Tableton and me and Morgan were hanging out all
(43:32):
the time, and um, it would be like Jesse was
doing remixes at home or you know, kind of coming
up with Jesse start off as a producer. He got
me my first internship. And when you said that, I
was like, what, I didn't know that I've known Jesse
for He's like one of the first people I knew
in this crazy which I love a small world. I
(43:52):
think it's so fun. Yeah, and it all comes back
full circy, like what, no way. And that's why I'm like, uh,
everybody needs to be nice to everybody one bridge exactly.
That's another key. You are not acting for your bridges
because you could be knocked down tomorrow and on top
of the world and we've seen it happen and we've
lived it all. And don't think that someone coming in,
(44:13):
you know, a new, just graduated person is beneath you
or whatever. Running the head of the company. Yes, things
happen fast and things happen slow, and so it's just
kind of like, you know, you could be on fire
one day and writing all the hits, and the next
day you can't get a co write to save your life,
or you your songs just aren't listening to the same
(44:36):
and it doesn't matter if you're good or bad. So
it's just kind of like everyone says, it's like if
you're on your streak, like, if you get your streak,
you cannot be touched. You are like on fire. But
then the streak ends, and then someone else gets a streak.
You can get another street can come back around. But
like it is like lightning fast. Yeah, And if you're
if you're a hit writer, and you are, you know,
(44:57):
everybody gets their own crew, and you like that. You
find the people that you write your most amazing songs with,
but also the people that you have the most fun with,
which I think matters more than a good song. If
you're having a good time in the room, something happens
with that song versus, oh, here are three badass writers.
(45:18):
It should make magic putting them together. And then they're like,
you get it back and you're like, oh, that's good.
It's all Trump Meltz was going to happen, but this
is cool. And then you could have the people who
are just like buds hanging out, you know, shooting the
ship in the room and being like, yes, this is
the song that is supposed to happen today, because they
(45:39):
get to truth place faster because probably they're all really
enjoy life and they're writing real but it's important that
they always leave room for the new guy or girl
to come in and go, Okay, yes I have my crew,
but I'll try anything once, or if it's my job
to go, hey, I know you don't know this person,
(46:01):
and you might be at a different level than they are,
but I think this is going to be a good
match and they just have to go and that's where
they trust to play. Let's see and yeah, I mean
I try it once and it might not work, but
it's worth a try, absolutely, And you have to find
your days to do that. I mean, I can't throw
in brand new ideas every day because we still gotta
(46:25):
get commercial songs and we've still got to get hits happening.
And if I know this person with Jesse makes this
kind of magic. We're keeping that for sure, but there's
always room to try something new and let this new
person in that you know, maybe I've heard that they
don't know anything about and you're going, yeah. So that's
where you have to stay up to who's the new writers,
(46:46):
what's happening, Like, what's going on outside of total little
world that you built? Yeah, And so Jesse was making
tracks at home, just you know, basically like karaoke music
from scratch on the computer, and it was like, Okay,
you and Chris should like hang out and do this
because I think it would be so cool. Chris obviously
(47:09):
has this amazing voice, which she said forever to hit
and it's so crazy. He had a few record deals
before he had the Chris Stapleton thing, and so it
was just like, why don't you all just hang out?
And it was so funny because Chris is just this
country songwriter Jesse loves like E D M and pop
(47:30):
and motown coming from Detroit, and so it was just like,
y'all get together. And Jesse had this whole idea of
what he thought he was going to do with Chris Stapleton,
and Chris is like, are we gonna make like rap songs,
what's happening? And so the first song they ever did
was hysterical. It had like crazy little dinosaur sounds in
the background. Oh yeah. And and then and they were
(47:51):
both kind of going, um, is this what we're supposed
to do? Is this right? And they get this song
and I'm like, what is this? And he was like,
I don't know. I think he's like, I think I
would like to convince him to like write with me
one more time. He said, I would really love to
make like an Adele record, an adult Chris Stapleton song.
(48:13):
And I'm like, yeah, that'd be so good. And so
they wrote Crash and Burn and yeah, and it was
just like Thomas, Oh my gosh, it was. It changed everything.
They wrote another song called Lonely Girl, which m Charles
Kelly ended up cutting on his solo record. That song
was so incredible. Justin Timberlake ended up hearing that song
(48:37):
somehow and I was like, wow, this is so cool.
Well all thought, oh my god, maybe we'll get a justice.
That's all Justin Timberly heard about Chris Stapleton's. They started
like getting to know each other from that kind of thing,
and then just those things like random little songs, nighttime
hangs in the studio, and you know, Chris and Jesse,
(48:59):
I mean, it just kind of they just clicked after that.
They yeah, it really did. And it took Jesse from UM,
I'm making some little pop tracks, and you know, my songwriters,
I'm a publisher, so I can't say he was doing
this while he was a publisher. And so it was
like he couldn't just go in and be like song
writer and they're like, no, you work for songwriter. But
(49:21):
what was so cool about his writers was that they
kind of had this thing. They were all their own
little like Carrie Barlow, who now writes for us UM,
had come from the World Rock World and had also
gotten Christian cuts and hits with Toby Mack and so
Carrie'd be like, man, some of these tracks, I feel
like Toby would like. And so while they would hang
(49:44):
out and Jesse was kind of doing demos for the
guys at the office. It was that thing where track
guys were just getting started in Nashville and was kind
of weird because the songwriters would get together, write a
song recorded on a tay or on their voice memo
or whatever, take it to the plub publishers. They would say, yeah,
(50:05):
let's go make a demo session hire song. You know,
guitar players, drummers, whatever, cut these songs in a studio
to pitch. These are the demos. And Jesse was the
first person going, I think I could take your song
that you have the voice memo and just kind of
put a loop to it and you know, program some
beats behind it and you could play guitar. And it
(50:26):
was he's only cutting edge of tracks. He really was,
I mean, and it was a game changer because it
costs money to go in the studio and do that,
and to do a full demo with like players, session players,
instrument you gotta pay them by the hour to dollars
a song. And now you can just do it with
one person on their computer. And Jesse was just kind
of doing it as a favor and going, oh, I can. Also,
(50:50):
you're you're writing all these songs and then you pick,
out of ten songs, what five you want to go
in the studio and make demos of. Well, now you
could just make a demo out of all of them.
You don't have to pick. You can have all that
and you don't have to wait, and you don't have
to go, well, we don't have the money to cut
all ten of these in the studio, but we could
do five. So what five do I think are the best?
(51:12):
What five do you think are the best? And maybe
that lines up and maybe a song gets left behind. Yeah,
So it kind of went into like Jesse ended up
cutting them or like creating a loop and all that
for American Honey that Carrie wrote with Shane Stevens and
Hillary Lindsay that later became Lady Annabellum's number one. So
(51:33):
it's just kind of like, Okay, I see the value
in this, And while he's doing that, they're like, well,
what else do you have? The writers were doing that
and Carrie's going what do you have? Just like tracks?
What's going on? And be like, oh, I'm gonna take
this to Toby Mac And then they end up writing
a day after work and Jesse gets a Christian cut
(51:54):
on Toby Mac and then it becomes a number one,
and then he's got these pop tracks and Shane Stevens
going hey, can I have that and on top line
to it and I'll write the lyrics and come back
and you record me. And they're getting like cuts in
Germany and so it all start having faster it did.
It was really weird. It went from you know, please
let me program to your work tape and make a
(52:16):
demo for you to save us some money in the
publishing side of things. They're getting cut. This is actually
an asset, like this is like a game changer, and
he got like a cut on Hot Shell Ray and
then it was just kind of like he also DJ
and at the time, and he DJs for Thomas right
now on tour. Yeah, and what's crazy is that Carolyn
(52:39):
Mobley who I used to pitch songs too at R
C A A and R there and then she went
to Warner Brothers. And when she was leaving Sony to
go Sony R C A to go to Warner Brothers,
she said, hey, doesn't Jesse DJ And I was like, yeah,
he DJs, you know, parties whatever. She said, I would
love to have in dj a party for me that
I'm like going to Warner Brothers and it's my new thing.
(53:01):
So he did that. She loved him and said, hey,
I have a friend who's looking for a DJ for
their party planner that's coming to town. And it was
Colin Cowie, who is a huge lifestyle party planner for
like Oprah, and like he had a he had a
little um like I remember seeing him in in Style
magazine in the back. It would be like him with
(53:22):
DJ for these big parties. Yes, and so so what parties? Uh?
He DJ Kim Josiac Berman's wedding, He DJ cash Money
Records which is still be charged to the party right, yes,
and he DJ um Alissa Milano's wedding And then yeah,
he was just getting because Jesse is a perfect mix
of right left brain. He has the business mind to go, oh,
(53:43):
I'm gonna show up on time and I'm gonna do
this job and whatever. But then he's so creative that
he's a great whatever he wants to do. I mean,
he's just a little gold mine. Yeah. So at the
time he's like DJing on the side. And Seth England,
who was at the time Florida Georgia Lines manager, said Hey,
we really want to bring a DJ out on the
road to DJ in between the sets of the opener
(54:05):
and then F G L and whatever, um would you
do it for us? And he was just like, I mean,
he's a publisher, he's working a full time job, but
it's like, I will do this if you help me
get a right with the guys, Like if I'm out
on the road and I bring you guys both are
so good at like working it like you've got to
(54:27):
like it's just not gonna happen and just take what
they give you, yes and yep. And so he's like,
if you can make this happen for me, I'll DJ.
I'll you know. It's like if I could get one right,
just one. And he's like, I'll see what I can do.
Let's try it out. So he goes out on the road.
He's on a bus and he takes Carrie Barlow and
then Sarah Buston and another great songwriter amazing, and they're
(54:51):
like the bus had broken down. I mean it was
a hot mess and he fell off the stage like
trying to help move his DJ. I mean it was
h this is the first time, Yeah, the first night. No,
Luckily it wasn't his first night. I think he probably
would have died, but he was already into the like,
had hung out with the guys. Everybody loved him. And
(55:12):
and then just but the day that they were gonna
like bringing the songwriters out was going to be the
time to write, and so he's just like when you
go out on the bus with people, artists are very busy.
They've got radio things to do, they've got meet and
greets to happen, and so they don't always have time
to write. But you're just going and hoping that you
(55:35):
see them at catering at breakfast and you're like, hey, guys,
uh got the rigs set up in the you know,
the little mobile studio on the bus if you if
you want, like, because you have to be cool, but
you're burning up. Artist's dying, I think you know. At
first they don't and they're just like, oh cool, we'll cool. Yeah, well,
(55:58):
if we want to write, we'll get to it. Your
whole life is hinging. And now they feel because they
are doing a lot more bus riding, they feel the
pressure of wow, we brought these people out. And then
they take writers out just specifically to write. Jenn was
the DJ back in the day and he was not
a known writer, and so um f GL had pretty
much finished the record, but they get to the venue
(56:20):
wherever it was, and he set up the rig and
he had somehow heard that that Tyler and Brian were
like wanting a reggae vibe or something, and Carrie had
done a song for Toby called Made to Love. It's
very reggae influenced, and so he's like, well, let's just
meet you and Sarah like come up with some vibes
and whatever and like bump it out of the bus
(56:41):
speakers and you know, and the guys ended up coming
up onto the bus, so they just turned it up
loud and they're like I love that, Like, oh god,
when we got these writers and I want to do this,
but I feel bad, and thank god they came on
and wrote Sundays, Are you serious? And then wrote the
song called good Good, and um, the record was mostly
(57:05):
finished and there they cut him last minute and Sundays
was a Sunday single and hash number one. Yeah wow,
but okay, I just gotta reiterate. You and Jesse both
do this like you just don't take no for an answer,
Like you're just like, Okay, I have this opportunity. How
can I exploit every angle of this opportunity so it
happens for me and not be annoying. It's not being annoying,
(57:26):
And yeah, that's the balance. You have to walk that
line because inside you're going oh my god, oh my god,
I'm I'm going and then on the outside you're like, hey, guys,
what's that. I'm cool, everything's crazy. And then you're just
like please, you know. Or every day I'm pitching songs
and if someone says to me that's a pass well,
that's one person's opinion. So it's like, Okay, that was
(57:48):
the A and R person, but the the artist hasn't
heard it, that was the label, but the producer hasn't hurt, Like,
I'm not going to give up opinion. Yes, because American
Honey was passed on a up times, and you know,
it just happened to get to Paul Worley, who was
producing Lady A at the time. It got to the
band and they're like, we love this. I mean, that's
(58:09):
just you cannot give up. No, you cannot give up.
It wasn't Strawberry Wine passed on like
For this week's episode of Get Real, I am bringing
back one of my favorite episodes ea Stevie Fraser. She's
so funny, makes me pee my pants laughing. She has
worked every job in this music industry, country music industry,
from being an intern to her desk was outside of
(00:21):
her boss's office because there's no space for her to
have a desk, but she like created a spot for
herself because she's such a hustler, I'm telling you. Like
then she talks about meeting Beyonce and jay Z and
how she kept really trying to create a conversation with
Beyonce like four times, and it's so funny. Stevie has
these stories in her life that are wild that you
(00:42):
wouldn't believe could really happen until you hear them out
of her own mouth because they're just so funny and
she's such an inspiration. She she's a cancer survivor and
she's a boss. She has a publishing company with her
husband Jesse, who also is a DJ, and goes on
tour with Thomas Rhett. They're awesome, so cool. This interview
is amazing. Check it out. Stevie Fraser, my girl, Hey everyone,
(01:06):
I'm here with someone who's so fabulous Stevie Fraser, what's up?
Everything's up, Everything's up, and everything stays on. I'm like,
that's a true super busy, super bored. No, I'm not bored.
I'm not bored. I would love to be bored for
like five minutes. I know, well I don't. I know
(01:28):
you said if you're not bored, But like that's how
I am. Sometimes I feel like I am so unbelievably busy,
and then all of a sudden, I'll just like have nothing.
But there's always this running list in my head. Always
is there always a running list for you? There's so
I have this app called Wonder List, and in the
middle of the night or it's crazy, I could get
to bed to the actual bed by like nine ten
(01:50):
o'clock and then I'm still awake. I'm like, I have
a puzzle app. I'm like trying to calm my mind.
I'm taking meloton and gummies and I'm just like, okay,
I'm gonna chill out. I have this little meditation meditation
I do I have? UM, I have these U C.
L A meditations that Rita Wilson sent me, and she
(02:11):
was just like, oh, like Tom Hanks's wife, Rita Wilson
slide that one in. Yeah, you know when I got
when I got cleared of breast cancer last year and
Jesse was at the b m My Awards he was
winning Writer of the Year. You have to talk about
that because you had cancer and your husband win Songwriter
of the Year in the same year, Like you've had
just a wild journey. It's so crazy because we were
(02:33):
saying this the other day. It's fine, someone's ringing the
doorbell and I'm just gonna ignore it. It's probably a
package because I have eight seven Sugar and Sunday is
trying to sleep. This is how real it is. Sunday
is trying to sleep. Michael's not home yet, so Pranks
didn't cry. We get packages dropped off all the time.
I need to write a note, please don't ring the doorbell,
but don't, and then Sugar barks. But luckily Sunny sleeps
(02:53):
at We don't have a doorbell, so any commercial that
has like doorbell rings or whatever, Gus has no clue.
And so I'm like, oh, this is awesome. We've never
had a doorbell. But if my phone ings, he thinks
it's the dogs that are coming. To get him and
he loses his mind. He's like, she's hair like nobody.
She loves so much more than me. No, well at
(03:17):
first I was like, he loves you more than me.
She's like no, She's like it's like we have joint
custody and you pay me child support and I'm the
fun parents. Like She's like, he comes over and gets
to play, and you have to like enforce the rules,
like you kind of get the ship into the stick.
Though she's making the money, having all the fun and
you're having to be the disciplinarian that pays. She gets
(03:37):
to be like fun dad, you know, like dad's are
always like, oh what am I gonna do with the kids?
When I get him, I'll take him to chuck e
Cheese And the mom is like, do your homework, Dada,
screw her And I'm just kidding. Love her. I love her.
It's so funny. When we're gone, she's sending us pictures
and I'm like, thank God, I don't have to worry
about this crazy dog because he has a ton of energy,
doesn't he so much? Yeah? Is he like a dog
(03:59):
that needs to be extra size? What kind of dog
is he? He's a Wimer owner. They like to run.
He likes to run, he likes to jump, he likes
to But then it's also crazy. He could have his
brain going a mile a minute and then I'll say,
do you want to sit in my lap? And I'll
get in the couch in the corner and he curls
up in like a little roly poly position. So he's
like the best of both worlds. Yeah, except sometimes I'm
(04:21):
just like having to work and he's like, look at
me pulling blankets off the couch. Yeah, watched me, watch
me back to Rita Wilson and so we were rains
of pores. Everything is good, everything is bad. We were
trying to do IVF and I was doing it at
(04:44):
a clinic that was just starting up at a pretty
reputable place, and I was just like so excited of like, Okay,
we're going to collect some eggs. We're gonna you know,
I have the Bracka geen. So it's the the b
r c A. Jean, my mom has it, um probably
my aunt, I'm not sure, but it's just a gene
that puts you at a higher risk for breast of
(05:06):
varying skin cancer, all these kind of crazy things. And
my mom got diagnosed with breast cancer five years ago,
I think now. And so then we all got tested,
me and my two sisters, UM and me and my
middle sister. I'm the oldest of three. My middle sister
had it and I had it, thankfully, my little sister,
(05:28):
little ast sister didn't. But you'll both had breast cancer.
We did. Yeah, and you had no idea. You only
got tested because your mom had this gene yes and
so for the past five years, well not in the
last year and a half, but I was going to
get tested. UM doing mammograms and every six months, I'll
do a breast MRI I mammogram, mr I mamogram. And
(05:49):
at first Jesse was like, I don't want you to
get tested because I just think it's gonna stress you out.
It's going to freak you out. And I was like, dude,
I want to be ahead of this because it's coming,
like there's no my aunt had breast cancer four times,
my mom or three times, three or four, I can't remember,
but my mom had it. Then my mom got skin cancer.
So it was just like I want to be ready. Yeah,
(06:12):
And he said, living in denial that it couldn't happen,
and my sister, she got tested, knew she had the gene,
but I found a lump and ignored it. So she
kind of your sister came into it like stage there's
it's really weird. It's like stage one to three four,
(06:32):
but then there's like levels in each stage. So she
came into it pretty close to a stage three and
had to deal with a lot of chemo, a lot
of medicine. And it's also really crazy that we all
have a different kind of breast cancer. So like when
people are just like, why haven't we found a care
for breast cancer or whatever, or any cancers or whatever,
(06:52):
it's like there's so many. Oh wow. So it's not
just like you get it's like vanilla ice cream. Here's secure.
It's like it's like vanillailla bean French vanilla. Really yeah.
So she has a hormone lead one I don't, so
she has to take medicine forever. Um, I shouldn't take
any medicine I had. My mom had a triple negative.
(07:14):
My sister had a her too. What's a triple negative.
It's just an aggressive fast it's like a fast growing
But my mom found it very early because my aunt
had it. My aunt and my sister have the same kind.
It's it's just crazy. You can't take medicine. Why isn't no? Um,
so I can't take any hormones? Uh because mine is
(07:36):
hormone fed. My sister has to take a hormone. Yeah,
so like a diabetic can't have sugar. Yeah, it's crazy.
Which it was nuts and and Jesse was just like,
I don't want I don't want to stress you out
because I'm a warrior. I mean, I like, we'll have
a puppy and be like one day he's gonna be
old and he's like, oh my god, what is love?
(08:00):
And I do that too. I'm so I have so
much trouble loving the now me. I'm like anxiety seven.
I am trying to love the now like that is
my goal hardcore because I am so tired of having anxiety?
Are you? Oh? Yes? And I'll just be like okay,
I'm gonna breathe. I'm like looking it up these techniques.
I'll get in a mind space app and I'm like,
(08:20):
all right, everything is fine. And then I'm like, oh
my god, did I ever get to turn off the oven?
I know? And stuff. I'm like, oh, I haven't used
the oven in three days. No, it's fine. I'm like,
I haven't curled my hair. I'm like the curling iron CD.
I run through a list of every single thing that
could go wrong at all times, constantly, and man, I thought,
for the most part, don't worry about it. Oh No.
The other day, I woke up super early to take
(08:43):
a flight, and I'm trying to be all quiet, and
I opened the door and Jesse had left his keys
in the door, and so I'm like, turn on the alarm,
you know, do all this stuff. And then I opened
the door and I'm like, oh cool, he's right here,
you know, it's fine. And I'm like slamming the door.
I'm like, god, I'm cutting us a murder. And he's like,
(09:04):
what's happening. And I'm like like, all night the keys
are just in the door all night long. Oh my gosh.
I know. Meanwhile, I'm like, did you lock the door,
did you lock the bedroom door? Did you like the
door to get to the door to the screen door
that He's like, oh, oh my god, So how are
you combating this? Um? You know, I don't know that
(09:25):
I am. I mean, I think it's just Honestly, it's
the being busy. Sometimes I don't have time to be worried.
That's can we just stop worrying? Like can we just
hand it over to God? That's what I'm trying to do,
Like I'm trying to do these Gabby Bernstein mantras, start
your day off right, like I am blessed, I am abundant,
(09:46):
I am healthy, who I am calm, and just starting
off with that, and then I'm just trying to stay
in the moment, Like I have a big calendar now,
so I write everything down and I stay in ahead
of it, and then I'm like, Okay, I don't need
to run a loop in my head because it's on
the calendar, and like I'm going to write now what
I need to do this day, so then I don't
(10:07):
have to run this loop. Yes, that's why I'm laying
in bed and I'm like, oh crap, I've got to
do this. And then I'm like, Okay, pull the wonder
list app out, put it in the list, and then
you go to bed. But I can do that with
things that I have to do more than I can
do it with thoughts of like why are we here?
What is life? What is the meaning of existence. I
(10:30):
love you. Oh my gosh, why am I thinking this
right now? And I'm it's insane. I'm like, oh, my parents,
they're growing older, and I'm like, I'm getting older. Oh
my god, you can't stop aging. Oh my god, you
can't stop death. And then I'm just like, Okay, I
love you guys, I love you, Jesse, like, I'm just like,
sing a song in my head, go to bed. Stevie's crazy.
(10:52):
I that's the best description I've ever heard of my
own brain. Yeah, it's nuts, because like as soon as
I get the work seven immediate needs to off. It's like,
let's go to the big wide huven world of the
universe of everything that's happening and anything that could go wrong.
But I don't want to think about the things that
can go wrong well, and I don't want to do anymore.
Is like worry about that. It's weird. Though sometimes it's
(11:14):
not even stuff that goes wrong. And here's the thing too,
growing up my parents, my grandparents, which I appreciate and
probably with my own children I would do to a
certain extent. But even my littlest sister and I talked
about this all the time. Like it was you know,
look both ways, don't talk to strangers, don't you know,
(11:36):
like walk to your car prepared and you know, always
look around you be aware of your surroundings, look in
the backseat, lock all the doors, which I appreciate because
it's gotten me through life. And I'm safe and I'm
healthy now and i'm and nothing bad happened to me,
and so I think about like my nephew and nieces
and go, you know, okay, I mean it was to
(11:56):
the point of like, don't park next to a car
that looks like this, Like it was intense, so you're
just like on guard all the time. So it was
like running list of keep myself safe, key checklist, con yes,
And I appreciate that it got me through life, you know,
like watch your drink, don't ever you know. It was
(12:17):
just constant from parents, from my parents, from my grandparents,
like walk to your car with your key's in your
hand like this. It was everything. Here's some mace on
a key chain. Here is so I felt always on guard,
but then always like cool at me, I dare you
you know what I mean. It was just like I
felt completely scared and also like I could be a
(12:40):
badass at any moment. So I was like, oh, I
am ready, but also please don't hurt me, right, So
I can't help but go, Okay, everyone's safe. And then
I'm I take it to the like in degree oh
the universe, like why are we here? What's going to happen?
Is one day our Earth can to just explode from
the that out are we really gonna like all fry up?
(13:02):
Like in global warming? Like I think about that the
fires in Australia, like what's the world's ending? Like, oh
my god, all the animals And then I get sad
and then I have to stop, and then I'm like
depressed for the whole world. I'm like, I'm too heavy
for one person. We watched some like one Strange Rock
I think it was with Smith and it was just
(13:22):
like about the planets and it was astronauts who had
like seen the Earth from outer space watch that. I
was just like, man, this is so fascinating. And then
you're like, okay, where does God fit into this? And
then you're like where what are we here for a
billion years? And then the other day I just asked
Jesse out of blue, I'm like, do you think like
we've got maybe like a hundred years left of the
(13:44):
earth or and he's like what And I'm like, you know,
like like probably not going to be forever, right, And
he's like, I don't know, like you think it'll be
our our lifetime, like our kids, like if we have kids,
is that going to be their lifetime? Like I just
want to know, like you know, how to yeah, like
should we have a kid, because like what if they're
in like a weird time. And he's just like, dude,
(14:07):
you gotta just like let it be. I'm like, yeah,
I know, I know. And I'm like yeah, I'm totally
letting it be. But like, also, what's gonna happen? He's
just like, oh man, it's it's just I can't turn
it off. Ste I love your brain. Yeah. But also
another friend of mine, I was just like, do you
think like this? And she's like oh, she goes, I
(14:30):
wish I could just be like ignorance is bliss, Like
oh my gosh, this day is so great and whatever
happens today and this minute is awesome. And I'm like, oh,
me too, how do we do that? I'm like, oh,
we're too smart for own good like geniuses. So I'm
(14:51):
like I always feel like I it's better, Like sometimes like,
is it it's better to know less? I know, you
just know what you need to know, and that's it. Well,
and and so I've started to take some steps back
away from like knowing too much about politics in the
big scheme. I'm like, Okay, let's bring it down. When
we start to have some local things, I'll learn about
(15:12):
these people, I'll get more involved this way. And then
when it gets to like bigger elections and it's narrowed
down some, it just is too much. Like I'm like,
I can't think about everything. It's too much to think
about on a deep broad level, because like your soul
and your heart can only handle so much. So if
you're thinking about every tiny detail that is possibly out
(15:35):
there that you can gather about politics, if you're thinking
about every tiny detail that is possibly out there that
you can gather about the universe, about like what's happening
in the world, Like what's happening in our lifetime, what's
happening in health, like all the different everything that are
going on in the world help good and bad? What
bad things? And you're just like, if you're handling all
of this on the biggest level. It's too much. It's
(15:57):
so much. We can't handle all that. The other day,
I say, I kind of want to just like sometimes
I want to think about how I would raise a
kid to be just kind of an asshole who doesn't care.
Because sometimes I'm like holding the door for someone and
they just like breeze by, or they'll let it slam
in my face and I'm like, you're welcome, and then
I'm just like, what is my problem? Like, man, if
(16:18):
if I was an asshole, I just wouldn't even care.
And then he's like, yeah, but you could never you know,
Like I just think about you think about people and
every yes and just go from people. I'm like, I
would rather get my feelings hurt being nicer to someone
than go through life and not have the like connection
(16:39):
being a jerk. I get that it's worth it for
the connection. Yeah, And I would want my kids to
be like the kids. I just remember my we had
to say like yes, ma'am, no, ma'am, yes, stuff. And
I remember just having my mom's friends be like Stevie
is so sweet, or you know, I just love when
she comes over. And I remember having friends that my
(17:02):
mom would just be like, I cannot wait for this
kid to go home, you know, And so I'm like,
I would want a kid like that too. I want want,
I want the good. I want this person that feels
a little more empathetic than and gets their feelings hurt,
but is a good human versus just a little a
little tornado and not really caring about anybody else, Even
(17:24):
though it might be more fun to be in your
own tornado because then you just do you all the time.
You kild have a hybrid, if you could be in
your own little world and then still be considerate and
care about the people that you love, but for the
most part you're just operating in your own little universe. Yeah,
maybe that's the ticket. How would do that? I think too. Sometimes,
like working in the business, there's like there's a moment
(17:47):
where you're kind of a sweet asshole because you're a publisher.
Your partner, I got partner with jay Z. We are
are our company is partnered with rock Nation, which is
jay Z's company, And um, have you met j D
jay Z? I did, And you gotta tell your story
because this is my favorite story. So for all listening,
Stevie is a badass publisher. You and your husband have
(18:08):
a publishing company together. And a publishing company is where
you have songwriters that write for you, and they write
songs and then you get them to artists to put
on their basically a a babysitter of grown up humans,
manage their their writer calendars and and pair them. It's
like matchmaking with other songwriters. They come write a song,
(18:29):
give it to me. I take it to the producers
or the artists or the labels and say, please cut
this song on your next record. When I was younger,
I would just like stare at the c D or
the cassette, you know, inserts, and be like, who wrote
these songs? And really, oh, I was obsessed. You're obsessed
with the makers of the song. Yeah, And because at
first you think like the singer wrote everything, yeah, and
(18:52):
then or you just think the songs appear somehow totally.
And then you're like reading all the lyrics and then
you see in the parentheses the songwriter's and you're like,
I don't see Faith Hill on this. Who is you know,
who's so and so? Right? Yeah, who's Stephanie Smith? Who
is this person? And I'm just like, oh my gosh, okay,
And then you come to town and you start working.
(19:13):
And I was in the tape room, which at the
time publishing company at E. M I, which now doesn't
exist anymore, but it was a it was a major
and I got hired to basically burn CDs four song clickers,
which is what I am now. So they would come
to me and say, hey, put these five songs on
a CD. I'd burn it, they'd take it to a meeting,
play it for a person, and they'd say, oh, yeah,
(19:34):
we want to hold these songs and cut them on
the next record. And so is that how you started
realizing that that was the job you wanted? Like, how
did you narrow down what job you wanted? Again? I
came here to sing, so I didn't even know what
a music publisher was. I was like, I'm just gonna
go to Nashville. My Mom's like you have to have
a fallback plan, and I was like, okay, Well, a
friend of mine said you could go to school for
(19:55):
music business and I was like, no, I went to
MT s U. And it was just because a high
school friend of mine went to MT s U. That's
the I was used, Just like did you know you
could go to school? And like learn about record labels
and stuff. I was like, what, so you know from
a young age you wanted to be in the music industry.
Oh yeah. Like when I would meet people or or
date someone back home in Georgia, I'd be like, just
(20:18):
so you know, I'm going to Nashville, so I can't
get too serious. Stevie. I feel like I was the
same way. I swear to you, like I relate to
your story so much. I never thought I was going
to stay in Texas or Wako. I was always going
to Nashville. Always. I knew it was Nashville for me.
All yes, me too. It wasn't like, oh I have
to find out where music is. It was like, I'm
going to Nashville to be a country singer. How do
(20:38):
you find out Nashville? My mom sang when we were younger,
and I would sing in bands and like harmonize for her,
and um she was it's so crazy. She was in
like contest a bunch and then she won a trip
to Nashville to sing at this place called the Nashville
Sound and like one a and then like want a
(20:58):
trip to like sing and sing and sing and sing
and whatever. But um, so I was like, okay, well
that must be where music is made. Yeah, like really early,
I don't know you. I don't even know, Like I
just knew I was singing. Yeah. Like also, my parents
would be like, come out here and sing lavira for everybody,
(21:19):
or come out here and demand a hundred percent you're fearless.
I was like, look at me, I'm singing. Yeah, I'm like,
love me, give me attention, to give me applause, Stevie,
are you for on there? No, I'm a two with
an eight wing. I know, so two is a helper
and an eight is the challenge. That's how you're like,
(21:39):
I'll help you, I love you, but come at me.
I know. It's so weird. I'm like, Hi, is there
anything you need? Don't ask for too much? Are you
better appreciate this? So yeah, I was just like that's
always doing a combo. Well kind of. Then you're like
super empathetic, and then you're like why people appreciate every
(22:00):
think I could do it for them? Oh it's a
it's a headache, isn't It's a blessing and a curse.
It's crazy. Okay, So you're like, I'm coming to Nashale.
Your mom went to the Music Business program at mt
s U and then interned at Warner Brothers. Interning was
a game changer for me? Was it a game changer
because in the music industry it's a way in Yeah,
(22:20):
and the young I mean, honestly, we could do a
lot of jobs without going to school. But there's no
way you could come here and get a job without
knowing what the jobs are, yes, and how to get
into players are and and you don't do that without interning.
I totally agree. I feel like school to me was
worth it for the internships. Belmont and I interned all
(22:43):
interned at Capital Records, I interned at publishing companies. I
interned for songwriters all over the place. And that is
how I learned the music business. But you have to
be in school kind of or no, you don't. I
guess you have to be in school to intern, you do. Yeah,
Like for us, we cannot have an intern who isn't
getting school credit because you're not paying them and it's
um and there's no pay. I mean, let's be real,
(23:04):
nobody here in Nashville is paying people to do anything
I could get for free. Yeah, and for us to
our company is so small even though we're attached to
Rock Nation, everything is us like going, okay, we have
to whatever we pay anybody for anything, whether it's candles
for the office or snacks for the writers, it's coming
(23:27):
out of our red balance. So we have to make
this money back and fill up this hole that they're
lending us to run. So can you get someone for free?
You're gonna get some resolutely, And a lot of those
jobs that you need in your office aren't like you
don't have to have a full skill set yet. You
can just be curious and hungry and you can kind
of teach them how to do it. It's just tedious
(23:47):
stuff like burning a CD a long time, like typing
up lyrics and letting you know writers and artists in
the building and not being a weirdo. I mean exactly basically.
Actually it goes so much further than it's really cool,
but just like a good personality, one that vibes with people,
a good hang, like even in our writers, you know,
(24:10):
like we have We're so lucky that rock Nation has
been so nice to us to be like, hey, we
trust you. We see that you have an eye and
an ear for talent. And Jesse's just killing it, So
it's it's kind of like, let us know if you
need us, so y'all get to run it however you want.
And they just support you and Blacky and they're like,
(24:32):
you fly a little bird, yes, and your big daddy
over here if you need me to drop the hammer,
totally got this. We'll say, hey, we really love this writer.
Here's the music. And before they even listen, and they
always listen, but before they even listen, they're like, do
you like it? Are you passionate about this? Is this
something you just do it? Are you gonna work it?
Believe in it? Because basically they're not in Nashville. That's
(24:54):
not their honeyhole. Like they're obviously killing the rock, the
hip hop world, and the pop world, so it's like, Okay,
they're hiring who they think is killing it in the
country world, which is your husband, Jesse Fraser, who's writing
every number one song in the world, and you as
the publisher running God. You are like a total power couple.
And it's so funny that once he's Jesse gotten, he
(25:14):
has in in country and he had he had the
Kine Brown Marshmallow song. I freaking love that song. What's
up to one thing right, I got one thing right. Yes,
Oh my god, that is such an honest song. Oh
my god. When I heard that song for the first
time Caine singing it, I was like, dang, he is
(25:35):
like really being vulnerable. I know, I know. And I
loved that for him. Loved that for him. I feel
like like marriage and fatherhood is like changing him in
a great way. And it's so fun too, because those
kind of songs, like for our family. For my nephew
who's eleven, he's like obsessed with marshmallow and he's like,
oh my gosh, Uncle Jesse like sending marshmallow geared to
(25:59):
him and he's like, this is amazing. Oh my god,
you like win. It's so cute. Like the first time
Jesse had written south Side with Christap and no, it's
uh that Southbound, but south Side was a tr song,
tam Toms rhette song, and it was in the Chipmunk movie,
and it was like the like Jesse had done all
(26:19):
these things, but all of a sudden, he's cool because
he had a song in a Chipmunk movie. Isn't it
so funny? Perspective? Yeah, yeah, kids, I mean truly, And
now it's like Marshmallows always like cool again. What are
some of Jesse's biggest songs, Uh, let's see um. He
wrote Dirt on My Boots for John Party. My favorite
(26:41):
part is but I can only gift so oh, I
love it. He wrote that one with Rhett Aikins and
Ashley Gorley, and I remember them turning in the demo
and Rhett was singing it and it had such a
no dignity vibe, like it was so kind of hip
hop with just these country lyrics, and I was like,
(27:02):
oh my god, I'm obsessed with this song. And m
and John just took it to a whole other lesson
Party crushed it. It was like made for John Party.
It was so good and I just, yeah, I love that.
I read I always get It's Akins, Yes Atkins Aikins.
Red Aikins is Thomas Rhet's dad. Just really cool because
they write together and Thomas took him on tour with him,
(27:23):
which it's so crazy. T r Thomas Rhet camp. It's
fun like that there's a crew of y'all. Y'all are
like a camp. Y'all are a posse. Yes, it is
we What's so weird is that I first worked with
Rhett at E M. I. So, y'all have been in
business a long time. Yeah, I knew him, and I
remember going no, he writes for Chapel, But I remember
(27:44):
going out to lunch. We were like at J Alexander's
sitting there and he's like, yeah, my son wants to
get into music and I don't know, I don't know
if I want to, you know whatever. And I was like, well,
it's probably gonna happen. I mean, if he wants to,
it's gonna happen because everybody's gonna look at you. At
the time, Rhett had just come out of right all
(28:05):
those big hits, like you know, all the big new
country stuff was coming in. It was like he was
just catching fire again as a songwriter now not an artist. Yeah,
and so he's just like, oh, no, if I want
And I think tr was like fourteen, it was happening,
and I'm just like, WHOA. So you were in on
it from the beginning. But what's weird is that then
we lost touch for such a long time because I
(28:26):
left EM I went to l A Publishing. I've been
publishing for about fifteen years and I left went to
l A. Then I started working with Pat higden Um
once he left a major and restarted up his independent
and it was called Patrick Joseph Music, and we had
a lot of fun and and it was the first
(28:47):
time that I had a person in the music business
who was like such a mentor to me. And I
just kind of was like figuring it out on my own.
Like when I was in the tape room, it was
kind of like, here's your job. Burn CDs, don't make
any waves, just put your head down, do whatever it takes.
And then it'd be like, well, a m I was huge.
Were you telling yourself that or that? It was the vibe.
(29:10):
It was like, okay, the song pluggers do this, you
burn CDs. And then it's like, okay, well I want
to do what they do, so I'm gonna what did
you like about what they did? I just I loved.
Once I got I didn't even know what publishing was.
It was I had internet record labels. And then a
friend of mine was like, hey, this publisher friend of mine,
(29:32):
they need to hire someone. I was getting out of college.
It was like, take the job, whatever the job is,
and then figure out what I want to do later totally,
and so I get in. Yeah, like get in and
whatever it is. As long as I'm on some kind
of creative side, then I'll figure it out. I feel
like that's really good advice for anyone who wants to
(29:52):
be in the music business, Like get in, yes, and
learn the players, take the trash out lust your ass.
Ask what else you can do? Ask if you can,
like if you got a cool vibe in a good hang, yes,
try to go to events, you know, try to go
to like number one parties and like go to Evans
if you can. And network. Yes, i was making like
eighteen grand a year and I'm like, okay, I have
(30:13):
ten bucks extra this week. If I go to this
showcase and I'm watching you know, a writer or artists
try to get a deal. But I see the head
of a label or I see someone in an A
and R department who is going to be a good
contact for me, I'm gonna use that ten bucks to
buy them a bud light. And then that's a that's
a very like cool move. Well because it's like I'm
(30:35):
not getting into kind of like expense account and I'm
broke as hell, but this is if they like me,
then they'll let me pitch them a song one day
were when I get to that level, they're gonna go,
oh yeah, she's cool, Yeah, sure, come on in, you know,
and it did. It did that for me that way
offer you and you can use your internship as you're
like card like, hey, I'm in college, I'm already interning
(30:56):
for so and so so so this, like you know,
you can just be bold lutely. And once I started
at E M I, it was just kind of like, hey,
you know Tom, Tom Lutheran, can I go to a
meeting with you? Or so you just asked, oh yeah,
or are be scared to ask em? I was huge
and had so many songs and songwriters that you know,
once these songs come in and they're brand new and
they're hot, all the pluggers are taking them out. They
(31:18):
want everyone to hear them as quick as they can
because new songs are being written every day and coming
in new. So I'd be like, hey, is it okay
if I pitched these old songs this back catalog and
they're just like, oh okay, that's cute cut, Yeah, I
do whatever. And then I'm like, all right, if I
can buy Brian Wright a beer at Universal and he's
Universal for you know, at the time, anyone like Julie
(31:40):
Roberts or whatever, and and I'm going, okay, maybe then
he'll listen to a song from me for Luke Brian
one day and like wheels turning all the time. People,
this is great if you want to make it happen.
Like you took your opportunity and then you explored every
(32:01):
different door that you can walk through from that opportunity
instead of just going in and showing up and making
your basic job. You're like, Okay, here's an angle where
I can like work harder do something that, say, you
get a cut on the back catalog. And now Tom
Luther in the head of Sony Publishing is like, well, shoot,
he benefits because they're not needing any other song pluckers.
(32:22):
But if you're gonna for full right, but if I'm
going to get some activity. I left the tape room
pretty quickly because the assistant, the creative assistant in the office.
It's like I went from a little room burning c
ds to the hallway where the desk was to be
the assistant, you know, keeping track of all the holds
and all the cuts, and you know, the tip sheet
(32:43):
of who's looking and holds mean that an artist has
heard a song, or someone who represents artist has heard
the song and they like it enough to put it
into the big mix of songs that they're considering to
record for the album. And it kind of lets, you know, like, Okay,
pitch this song. They like it enough to say, hold
that for me, I'm not going to pitch it to
anyone else until they give me an idea of the
artist likes it, let's take it the next step. We're
(33:04):
gonna take it into the studio. Maybe we cut it
in the you know, and record it, and then you know,
that becomes what's on the album or you know, or
it goes off hold and I keep track of that
and go, okay, we can pitch it to the next person.
And so I'm just like going okay. Meanwhile, I'm sitting
in the hallway and Buddy Cannon is listening for Kenny Chesney. Yeah,
(33:24):
and I'm gonna take this song. And I'm sitting there
and the writers really got I love songwriters, and the
writer's really got to know me. So I was sitting
in the hallway one day and I remember Dave Turnbull
brought a song in and He's like where is everybody?
And I'm like, oh, no, I guess they're at a meeting.
I don't know really what's happening. And he's like, oh man,
(33:44):
I've I've just got a new one and it's so
good and I'm like okay, and so I listened. He's like, oh, well,
you know, let'm play it for you and I was
like yes, like first chance. And so he played it
for me and I'm like, dude, this is so good.
I called Buddy Cannon's assistant Um Shannon at the time,
(34:06):
and I was just like, Hey, I have one song.
Do you think Buddy would let me play it for him?
And so you just took action. You didn't even wait
for tom or and hear the song. You're like sitting
there going like if I can do this, if I
get hold, if I get cuts, I'm going to be
a song plugger. You saw your moment and I'm like,
(34:27):
he's gonna happen, Stevie. You jump. You didn't even and
I'm like, I'm probably gonna get in trouble, but I'm
doing it forgiveness later. And that's the way. Buddy, who
am in love with you? Very hard on songs. He
is very hard like. And it's just like, you don't
bring him a lot of stuff, you know, don't overwhelm him,
bring him something away. If you've got a top five,
you narrow it down to three and then you take
(34:49):
it to buddy and he listens and he says, no,
I'm gonna pass on that. Thank you by and he said, oh,
and I took. I said one song. I just have
one song. He said, all right, come on right now,
and a wint person played him the song. Weren't to
leave where, you know, I wasn't supposed to do nothing.
I was like, I'm going. And of course, Dave, it's
(35:10):
just like your songwriters are just like anyone who is
obsessed with the song. They love you right then because
they want because you are their resource to getting their songs,
and they're like, okay, do this girl. And the more
people the better, Honestly. I mean, you could have four
song pluggers. They could all love your song, or they
could be one person to be like this is my
(35:30):
favorite full time, and the other person go, you want
the person on fire. The songwriter wants the person on fire.
So you're the one on fire. Yeah, Rand Buddy, he said,
oh my god, I love this, I'm gonna play it
for Kenny. He said, put this on hold, and I'm like,
I mean it was so that was like, did you
like cry in your car the angels? The clouds parted,
the sun broke down on me, and the angels was like, oh,
(35:52):
you did it. And so you were so bold. You
took somebody risk. You're like terrified, but you were carving
your path. You said, I'm gonna get this. Yes, So
I sent out an e mail and I'm like, you know,
the hold email, which is the holy grail. I felt good,
but also scared, like you might get in trouble. Yeah,
And so you already got it to the head guy,
you know, you know User and Kenny. It's like, what
(36:12):
more can they have done? I only had permission to
pitch old songs that you crossed the line, and here's
a song no one's heard and you took it in yeah,
and I'm like this yeah, And so I was just
like probably, oh my god, I'm so obsessed with you.
So you said, okay, I'm just going to deal with
the consequence. So you sent out to the whole staff,
all the head that you got the hold and waited hold.
(36:35):
The song title the writers Hold for Kenny Chesney per
Buddy Cannon, and yeah, it's not like even like someone
heard it to play for, but you got it to
the top dog. And then I'm getting like, how did
you how did you get this song? Hold? What song
is this? And I'm just like somebody, But then they're like, hell, yes,
(36:58):
Kenny Chesney, he's gonna hear a song long you know
Buddy like to and Hold by Buddy. You could play
a hundred songs and he might like one. And I
played one and he liked the one, and so Kenny
ended up cutting it. It didn't make the record. You
gotta cut on your first pitch, Yes, you little stinker,
I know by Kenny Chesney. It didn't make the record.
But to get a song cut by Kenny Chesny got
(37:20):
me huge a song plug I got. I became a
song plugger because after that they're like, okay, you're already
in the system. Like if they're gonna if they need
a new song plugger, of course they're gonna hire you.
So that's why internships and being bold pay off. Yes,
so you got hired right out hired right after that,
it's like okay, well they you know my spot was
open in the tape room and they're like, fill that.
(37:42):
And then the next person coming out of the tape
room was going to fill the creative assistant position, which
is where I was. And then I got my own office,
and I got a raise, and I got a promotion,
and I got a tiny expense account and like, yes,
I'm not buying beers out of my own pockets, but that,
I mean it was. That was what did it. And
they were so driven and focused and you figured out
(38:05):
how to make the extracept. So many people wait for
someone else to do it for them. I feel like
that is the fatal flaw of people. Like you can
be the most talented person, but if you were waiting
for someone to make it happen for you, totally you're screwed. Yeah,
because somebody else is going to do it around you.
And like, you had the talent and the drive and
the ability to do it, but then you also had
(38:26):
the extra hustle and the extra vision to be creative
and getting in don't have that. I'm like, okay, I'd
rather get in trouble and and have them be like,
don't you know that's stay in your lane. Don't do
that again. Whatever, But you kind of if you know
that you've got a good shot and they really can't say, hey,
(38:51):
don't ever get us Kenny Chesney holds again, you know
what I mean, Like it's like, Okay, that just showed
that Buddy would allow me to come play him a song.
Like whether I got the hold or not wasn't the thing.
The thing was is that I had made the connection
and I had networked enough that Buddy would let me
go directly to him, go to him, and it just
(39:13):
like gave me street cred because they're like shoots, you
can go straight to Buddy. Yeah, because a big deal.
There's like five major producers. No, there's more now, but
there back then, there's like only like a handful of
major producers for sure. So if you have a direct
line of one of those major producers already, then yeah,
you're ahead of the game. And I was already like
making friends in the A and our world because I
(39:33):
was going out to every show. I could get to
every I mean it was exhausting, but going out of
the game and A and on people of everyone listening,
they're like the creative direct They're like what an artist
in a repertoire. They listened for songs like the label Scout,
they find the artists they want to they want to
sign at the label, and then they find their music.
(39:54):
You know, if the artist isn't necessarily a writer, or
even if they are, they know the players in town
who are writing the hits and they're going, you guys
need to get with my new artist, or they're like,
play me the songs that you have that would be
like a you know, George Strait type thing or whatever.
So I was just kind of going, Okay, I'm gonna
(40:15):
be cool to everybody. I'm gonna buy beers when I can.
And then one day I'm gonna get into this spot
and you did it. I did, And then it was
just you have your own little expense account, you got
your own little office. Now your song now what? Now
I'm just well And then I'm newbie. You know, It's
like you go, I was at E. M. I and
(40:37):
then in the in that you know, hierarchy of tape
room assistant, now a plugger. But it's like each place
is brand new, because even though I know everybody in
the building, it's like I've started another job where. Okay,
now you get the writers that you know are maybe
(40:57):
needing more attention or now you're getting the people that
you know everybody's worked with, but it just didn't click,
and so you're I was like in the land of
misfit toys, you know what I mean. And then it
was like, hey, I'm I'm good. If I felt like, okay,
they're all going, oh damn it, I'm getting the new
kid like and I'm going I love everything you do.
(41:22):
Bring me all your songs. Let's go out, let's do this,
and you want to prove yourself. Yeah, and they're like, oh,
this isn't so bad. I'm getting lots of attention. And
because so the more I guess the veteran songbuggers like
it's not they're not as I'm not saying that as hungry,
but like they just have a lot more on their plate. Yes,
and you're trying to me. I'm like, oh, I don't
have anything to do yet, so let me get something
(41:44):
to do. And it's gonna be you, your career, your songs.
And that's where I was really becoming close with Morgan
Hayes at the time, who is now Morgan Stapleton, married
to Chris and Chris was at Sea Gale, which was
our parent company, and Jesse was just kind of how
you met Jesse. We knew each other. Um, we so crazy.
(42:06):
I was married before and I was working at the
Melting Pot while I was going to Oh Baby, Baby,
Yes baby, and I worked at the Melting Pot and
in turned at Water Brothers with Jesse's girlfriend, and so
we all knew each other. And then the music business
is like small, small, small, and so we just kind
(42:29):
of knew each other. And um, after my divorce, I
had five years, six years a long time for a kid,
for a totally, but I think two. I was so
ambitious and I was like, probably if I was a
(42:50):
little bit older when I was doing that, I'm like, Okay,
I need to figure out a balance of my work.
You aren't ready for balance new I'm like, I will
do and go to any show no matter what time
of day. If I have to be out all night long,
get up early in the morning, which you don't really
in the music business, but like I would whatever they say.
So if my home life suffers, so be it. I'll
(43:11):
get to that later. Is that kind of what happened? Yeah,
you just couldn't prioritize he's a good guy. I'm a
good girl. It was just whatever and um, and now
he's remarried and Jesse and I are together, and Jesse
was just kind of starting to write, and so Chris
was having a lot of success as a writer. It's
Chris Tableton and me and Morgan were hanging out all
(43:32):
the time, and um, it would be like Jesse was
doing remixes at home or you know, kind of coming
up with Jesse start off as a producer. He got
me my first internship. And when you said that, I
was like, what, I didn't know that I've known Jesse
for He's like one of the first people I knew
in this crazy which I love a small world. I
(43:52):
think it's so fun. Yeah, and it all comes back
full circy, like what, no way. And that's why I'm like, uh,
everybody needs to be nice to everybody one bridge exactly.
That's another key. You are not acting for your bridges
because you could be knocked down tomorrow and on top
of the world and we've seen it happen and we've
lived it all. And don't think that someone coming in,
(44:13):
you know, a new, just graduated person is beneath you
or whatever. Running the head of the company. Yes, things
happen fast and things happen slow, and so it's just
kind of like, you know, you could be on fire
one day and writing all the hits, and the next
day you can't get a co write to save your life,
or you your songs just aren't listening to the same
(44:36):
and it doesn't matter if you're good or bad. So
it's just kind of like everyone says, it's like if
you're on your streak, like, if you get your streak,
you cannot be touched. You are like on fire. But
then the streak ends, and then someone else gets a streak.
You can get another street can come back around. But
like it is like lightning fast. Yeah, And if you're
if you're a hit writer, and you are, you know,
(44:57):
everybody gets their own crew, and you like that. You
find the people that you write your most amazing songs with,
but also the people that you have the most fun with,
which I think matters more than a good song. If
you're having a good time in the room, something happens
with that song versus, oh, here are three badass writers.
(45:18):
It should make magic putting them together. And then they're like,
you get it back and you're like, oh, that's good.
It's all Trump Meltz was going to happen, but this
is cool. And then you could have the people who
are just like buds hanging out, you know, shooting the
ship in the room and being like, yes, this is
the song that is supposed to happen today, because they
(45:39):
get to truth place faster because probably they're all really
enjoy life and they're writing real but it's important that
they always leave room for the new guy or girl
to come in and go, Okay, yes I have my crew,
but I'll try anything once, or if it's my job
to go, hey, I know you don't know this person,
(46:01):
and you might be at a different level than they are,
but I think this is going to be a good
match and they just have to go and that's where
they trust to play. Let's see and yeah, I mean
I try it once and it might not work, but
it's worth a try, absolutely, And you have to find
your days to do that. I mean, I can't throw
in brand new ideas every day because we still gotta
(46:25):
get commercial songs and we've still got to get hits happening.
And if I know this person with Jesse makes this
kind of magic. We're keeping that for sure, but there's
always room to try something new and let this new
person in that you know, maybe I've heard that they
don't know anything about and you're going, yeah. So that's
where you have to stay up to who's the new writers,
(46:46):
what's happening, Like, what's going on outside of total little
world that you built? Yeah, And so Jesse was making
tracks at home, just you know, basically like karaoke music
from scratch on the computer, and it was like, Okay,
you and Chris should like hang out and do this
because I think it would be so cool. Chris obviously
(47:09):
has this amazing voice, which she said forever to hit
and it's so crazy. He had a few record deals
before he had the Chris Stapleton thing, and so it
was just like, why don't you all just hang out?
And it was so funny because Chris is just this
country songwriter Jesse loves like E D M and pop
(47:30):
and motown coming from Detroit, and so it was just like,
y'all get together. And Jesse had this whole idea of
what he thought he was going to do with Chris Stapleton,
and Chris is like, are we gonna make like rap songs,
what's happening? And so the first song they ever did
was hysterical. It had like crazy little dinosaur sounds in
the background. Oh yeah. And and then and they were
(47:51):
both kind of going, um, is this what we're supposed
to do? Is this right? And they get this song
and I'm like, what is this? And he was like,
I don't know. I think he's like, I think I
would like to convince him to like write with me
one more time. He said, I would really love to
make like an Adele record, an adult Chris Stapleton song.
(48:13):
And I'm like, yeah, that'd be so good. And so
they wrote Crash and Burn and yeah, and it was
just like Thomas, Oh my gosh, it was. It changed everything.
They wrote another song called Lonely Girl, which m Charles
Kelly ended up cutting on his solo record. That song
was so incredible. Justin Timberlake ended up hearing that song
(48:37):
somehow and I was like, wow, this is so cool.
Well all thought, oh my god, maybe we'll get a justice.
That's all Justin Timberly heard about Chris Stapleton's. They started
like getting to know each other from that kind of thing,
and then just those things like random little songs, nighttime
hangs in the studio, and you know, Chris and Jesse,
(48:59):
I mean, it just kind of they just clicked after that.
They yeah, it really did. And it took Jesse from UM,
I'm making some little pop tracks, and you know, my songwriters,
I'm a publisher, so I can't say he was doing
this while he was a publisher. And so it was
like he couldn't just go in and be like song
writer and they're like, no, you work for songwriter. But
(49:21):
what was so cool about his writers was that they
kind of had this thing. They were all their own
little like Carrie Barlow, who now writes for us UM,
had come from the World Rock World and had also
gotten Christian cuts and hits with Toby Mack and so
Carrie'd be like, man, some of these tracks, I feel
like Toby would like. And so while they would hang
(49:44):
out and Jesse was kind of doing demos for the
guys at the office. It was that thing where track
guys were just getting started in Nashville and was kind
of weird because the songwriters would get together, write a
song recorded on a tay or on their voice memo
or whatever, take it to the plub publishers. They would say, yeah,
(50:05):
let's go make a demo session hire song. You know,
guitar players, drummers, whatever, cut these songs in a studio
to pitch. These are the demos. And Jesse was the
first person going, I think I could take your song
that you have the voice memo and just kind of
put a loop to it and you know, program some
beats behind it and you could play guitar. And it
(50:26):
was he's only cutting edge of tracks. He really was,
I mean, and it was a game changer because it
costs money to go in the studio and do that,
and to do a full demo with like players, session players,
instrument you gotta pay them by the hour to dollars
a song. And now you can just do it with
one person on their computer. And Jesse was just kind
of doing it as a favor and going, oh, I can. Also,
(50:50):
you're you're writing all these songs and then you pick,
out of ten songs, what five you want to go
in the studio and make demos of. Well, now you
could just make a demo out of all of them.
You don't have to pick. You can have all that
and you don't have to wait, and you don't have
to go, well, we don't have the money to cut
all ten of these in the studio, but we could
do five. So what five do I think are the best?
(51:12):
What five do you think are the best? And maybe
that lines up and maybe a song gets left behind. Yeah,
So it kind of went into like Jesse ended up
cutting them or like creating a loop and all that
for American Honey that Carrie wrote with Shane Stevens and
Hillary Lindsay that later became Lady Annabellum's number one. So
(51:33):
it's just kind of like, Okay, I see the value
in this, And while he's doing that, they're like, well,
what else do you have? The writers were doing that
and Carrie's going what do you have? Just like tracks?
What's going on? And be like, oh, I'm gonna take
this to Toby Mac And then they end up writing
a day after work and Jesse gets a Christian cut
(51:54):
on Toby Mac and then it becomes a number one,
and then he's got these pop tracks and Shane Stevens
going hey, can I have that and on top line
to it and I'll write the lyrics and come back
and you record me. And they're getting like cuts in
Germany and so it all start having faster it did.
It was really weird. It went from you know, please
let me program to your work tape and make a
(52:16):
demo for you to save us some money in the
publishing side of things. They're getting cut. This is actually
an asset, like this is like a game changer, and
he got like a cut on Hot Shell Ray and
then it was just kind of like he also DJ
and at the time, and he DJs for Thomas right
now on tour. Yeah, and what's crazy is that Carolyn
(52:39):
Mobley who I used to pitch songs too at R
C A A and R there and then she went
to Warner Brothers. And when she was leaving Sony to
go Sony R C A to go to Warner Brothers,
she said, hey, doesn't Jesse DJ And I was like, yeah,
he DJs, you know, parties whatever. She said, I would
love to have in dj a party for me that
I'm like going to Warner Brothers and it's my new thing.
(53:01):
So he did that. She loved him and said, hey,
I have a friend who's looking for a DJ for
their party planner that's coming to town. And it was
Colin Cowie, who is a huge lifestyle party planner for
like Oprah, and like he had a he had a
little um like I remember seeing him in in Style
magazine in the back. It would be like him with
(53:22):
DJ for these big parties. Yes, and so so what parties? Uh?
He DJ Kim Josiac Berman's wedding, He DJ cash Money
Records which is still be charged to the party right, yes,
and he DJ um Alissa Milano's wedding And then yeah,
he was just getting because Jesse is a perfect mix
of right left brain. He has the business mind to go, oh,
(53:43):
I'm gonna show up on time and I'm gonna do
this job and whatever. But then he's so creative that
he's a great whatever he wants to do. I mean,
he's just a little gold mine. Yeah. So at the
time he's like DJing on the side. And Seth England,
who was at the time Florida Georgia Lines manager, said Hey,
we really want to bring a DJ out on the
road to DJ in between the sets of the opener
(54:05):
and then F G L and whatever, um would you
do it for us? And he was just like, I mean,
he's a publisher, he's working a full time job, but
it's like, I will do this if you help me
get a right with the guys, Like if I'm out
on the road and I bring you guys both are
so good at like working it like you've got to
(54:27):
like it's just not gonna happen and just take what
they give you, yes and yep. And so he's like,
if you can make this happen for me, I'll DJ.
I'll you know. It's like if I could get one right,
just one. And he's like, I'll see what I can do.
Let's try it out. So he goes out on the road.
He's on a bus and he takes Carrie Barlow and
then Sarah Buston and another great songwriter amazing, and they're
(54:51):
like the bus had broken down. I mean it was
a hot mess and he fell off the stage like
trying to help move his DJ. I mean it was
h this is the first time, Yeah, the first night. No,
Luckily it wasn't his first night. I think he probably
would have died, but he was already into the like,
had hung out with the guys. Everybody loved him. And
(55:12):
and then just but the day that they were gonna
like bringing the songwriters out was going to be the
time to write, and so he's just like when you
go out on the bus with people, artists are very busy.
They've got radio things to do, they've got meet and
greets to happen, and so they don't always have time
to write. But you're just going and hoping that you
(55:35):
see them at catering at breakfast and you're like, hey, guys,
uh got the rigs set up in the you know,
the little mobile studio on the bus if you if
you want, like, because you have to be cool, but
you're burning up. Artist's dying, I think you know. At
first they don't and they're just like, oh cool, we'll cool. Yeah, well,
(55:58):
if we want to write, we'll get to it. Your
whole life is hinging. And now they feel because they
are doing a lot more bus riding, they feel the
pressure of wow, we brought these people out. And then
they take writers out just specifically to write. Jenn was
the DJ back in the day and he was not
a known writer, and so um f GL had pretty
much finished the record, but they get to the venue
(56:20):
wherever it was, and he set up the rig and
he had somehow heard that that Tyler and Brian were
like wanting a reggae vibe or something, and Carrie had
done a song for Toby called Made to Love. It's
very reggae influenced, and so he's like, well, let's just
meet you and Sarah like come up with some vibes
and whatever and like bump it out of the bus
(56:41):
speakers and you know, and the guys ended up coming
up onto the bus, so they just turned it up
loud and they're like I love that, Like, oh god,
when we got these writers and I want to do this,
but I feel bad, and thank god they came on
and wrote Sundays, Are you serious? And then wrote the
song called good Good, and um, the record was mostly
(57:05):
finished and there they cut him last minute and Sundays
was a Sunday single and hash number one. Yeah wow,
but okay, I just gotta reiterate. You and Jesse both
do this like you just don't take no for an answer,
Like you're just like, Okay, I have this opportunity. How
can I exploit every angle of this opportunity so it
happens for me and not be annoying. It's not being annoying,
(57:26):
And yeah, that's the balance. You have to walk that
line because inside you're going oh my god, oh my god,
I'm I'm going and then on the outside you're like, hey, guys,
what's that. I'm cool, everything's crazy. And then you're just
like please, you know. Or every day I'm pitching songs
and if someone says to me that's a pass well,
that's one person's opinion. So it's like, Okay, that was
(57:48):
the A and R person, but the the artist hasn't
heard it, that was the label, but the producer hasn't hurt, Like,
I'm not going to give up opinion. Yes, because American
Honey was passed on a up times, and you know,
it just happened to get to Paul Worley, who was
producing Lady A at the time. It got to the
band and they're like, we love this. I mean, that's
(58:09):
just you cannot give up. No, you cannot give up.
It wasn't Strawberry Wine passed on like
Host
Caroline Hobby
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