This interview was super emotionally intense and real. Holly is a survivor of human trafficking, abuse, and addiction. When she hit rock bottom, she found herself homeless and crying out on the floor of a public bathroom. She got real with me about when her childhood abuse began, and how that affected so much of her life thereafter. She talked about signs to look for with your children and why it’s so important to pay attention to changes in your child’s behavior. She then walked me through her journey into trafficking. I didn’t realize that most women become trafficked through a boyfriend or someone close to them. Now she is truly thriving in life. She is a force of light and goodness. Holly is the Founder/CEO of a company helping other women break out of the dark cycle. Sanctuary Project is a survivor-run nonprofit jewelry enterprise, based in Austin, that provides meaningful employment and job training to women who have survived trafficking, violence and addiction. The jewelry is stunning and carried in Target! Holly is now a wife, mom author and speaker. She and I spent the most magical day together with our families after our interview; I am blessed to know Holly and anyone who listens to this episode will be blessed by her story!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Carola, she's a queen. She's getting not afraid of it.
Just let flow. No one cal sounds Carol. Okay, this
is really exciting. It's already even a blast hanging out
(00:31):
with Polly Christine Hayes. We've already been hanging out, like
it feels like for more than an hour, just becoming
friends and so fast friends, which I love. I love
that because you know, like when you meet people like
I like everyone who's like a nice person, and I'm
like pretty much like down to hang with anyone. But
then you meet some people You're like, oh my gosh,
we're like really connecting out a lot of levels really fast.
It's like the Kindred Spirit thing where it's like, wait,
(00:53):
I know your soul and even have daughters who like
look alike and you're like the same age. So yeah,
this is very spy. You're from Austin, which Austin is
near and dear to my heart, from Texas, from Waco, Texas.
My sister, brother in law and nieces live in Austin.
And so did you grow up around the branch Davidians.
That's what everybody thinks. I mean, it's either Branch Davidians
(01:14):
or Joanna Gaines. Joanne again has come in and like
changed everything. It's just I'm so grateful. A really bad
rap with the Branch Davidio. I mean, growing up, that's
all I knew about Waco and now all anyone talks about.
Of course it's Magnolia. So it's either it's either Branch
Davidians or Magnolia. Two cults, both both have strengths in
(01:35):
their own right. Yeah, yeah, no, I mean join against.
Have you been to Magnolia? You're required to when you
live in Texas. I think you're it's a requirement to guess.
I have been like emotional the first time I went
in there. It's beautiful, beautiful. I'm like, yes, I know
she's perfect from just watching on Fix her Upper, and
I like her marriage is amazing. I mean, I'm sure
they obviously have like their life issues. I don't think
(01:57):
they do. I don't think they do either. Actually, Chuckings
is definitely my like celebrity card. I know who ever
thought that he would be like the one that all
of us are growing off. Every wife in America is
like likes. But it's like he's so funny, he's so cool,
and I feel like he really brings a silly out
in her too, because she's not you see it coming.
(02:18):
And then she grounds him too when he needs to
be grounded. I mean they're really perfect. I mean, are
we best friends with him too? What we are? I
was talking about that with someone recently. I've had dreams
that Joanna Gaines and I are like friends and then happen.
I feel like it's going to happen. She would love
thank you. I feel like she would love you too.
I feel like she would love us. I think she
would love us. So if you're a friend of Joanna's
and you're hearing this right now, please send this to
(02:40):
Joanna and say, these girls would be your best friends.
I have a lot to offer, we do. I feel
like you guys can even collaborate. I feel like we should.
I mean we we have been so. I have had
Sanctuary project at celebration one year, which was like incredible,
already happening. It's already happening, right, happen. We're basically there.
So yeah, Joanna, if you're hearing us, we love you.
(03:00):
We love you, Chip. If you're hearing this, we're both
happily married, but we wish our husbands were more like
you because he's so funny. Yes, I mean he really
He's capitalized on his strengths and he like does all
the hard work of like you know, rebuilding houses and
stuff like I just feel like if my husband, it's
just like I have a to do list for my husband,
and all I dream of is like a man like
(03:21):
Chip Gains that would go in there and just knock
out that to do last you know, he seems so
happy to do it. Yes, he's always like in a
great move. Yeah. He's never like you need me to
do what? Really want me to move this wall? He's
always like sure, was like yeah, and he done with
like a funny little dance to thank you. Why don't
our husbands do there to do dance? I'm like, yeah,
why didn't you have a little more fun like Chip,
(03:41):
come on? Okay, So we got it worked out. Magnalia,
Chip and Joanna have it all nailed. They do. They're winning.
They do there, and I think they've probably they're probably
a far better cult than the original. Oh yeah, they've
really they've done a good thing. They've created a good
uh cult mentality. Yeah, of course, you never know where
it's going to go because at one point we I'd
have thought the Branch Davidians had created a good cult too.
(04:02):
So did you watch that series? I did. I was
actually really sad how they got like taken out. I
mean it's terrible. I remember watching it as a kid
on TV, and I mean you must were you there?
Were you living there? So it's like, okay, so you
live in Austin and then like there's like dripping springs
and there's like bauda yeah like that, so it would
be like a Baudha type thing. Okay, so you were
(04:23):
like or like okay, yeah, so you weren't like it's
like thirty minutes outside. Wasn't like you'd see the flames
of the No, no, no, we couldn't see it. They
just tied it to Waco because we're the closest big city.
But I mean it was like right outside of it,
it was this big city. Yeah. But actually Lego has
kind of come a big city. I mean the Doctor
Pepper museums there, everything, people, it's like a tourist traction.
It absolutely is. There's that like miles to Magnolia sign
(04:45):
and people are are journeying there like Mecca. I know.
I think it is the mecca of home improvement at least,
just like they have like a baseball field and they
have like potato sacks, and like they have like all
these little tiny little shops you walk around. I'm like, literally,
Joanna is perfect, like vision is, there's enough, it's flawless.
I have to imagine she has like just an incredible
(05:05):
team behind her, Like she can't possibly do all this right? Right?
Or does she do all of it? And we're just
like inadequate as humans? I think because she also has
like ten children and she looks perfect. I know I
had one, and I'm like, I still can't get it
back together. It's hard. It is so hard. I'm like
started a health turning and it's been two years since
I worked out. I just started like two weeks ago.
Maybe you can encourage me and inspire me to work out,
(05:26):
but because I haven't done any. People like Joanna who's
running an empire, has five children, looks perfect, has a
great marriage. How that much bandwidth? No, my bandwidth is
much smaller. Yeah. I like naps, Like naps, I like
I need some downtime. I feel like those people don't
have downtime. No, she must not. Well, we're impressed. Okay,
so let's get to you, Holly, because you you're talking
(05:48):
like Joanna is doing something crazy, which she is, but
you are amazing. Like I already kind of emotional about
your story and I don't even know how to get
into it. So I'm going to let you start. You've survived,
you literally have gone through hell, and you've turned it
into a sanctuary, which is the name of your company,
and it's about helping women who are trafficked get on
(06:10):
their feet. And you make jewelry, a beautiful jewelry. I'm
sure this is all it. I looked at your website.
It's so beautiful. So tell me your story and tell
me about trafficking. Because something that you mentioned that I
didn't know on your Good Morning, Good Morning American interview
is that a lot of times people are trafficked by
someone they know, which I didn't know that. In fact,
(06:30):
the majority of cases in America are actually a known person,
which a lot of people are surprised to hear that
because I think we think of trafficking as this kidnapping
scenario always and um, you know, and someone has just
taken from their family and their chained to a bed,
somewhere and sold to strangers and you know, and and
it doesn't always look like that. In the vast majority
(06:52):
of cases, actually the trafficker is a known person, either
becomes a boyfriend or it's a family member. And so
I think it's important for people to understand that trafficking
is first of all, it's not an over their problem
that happens here in America, and and that it's and
that it's not, um that it's not a sensationalized sort
of thing like the movie Taken. Always oftentimes it's so
(07:12):
manipulative and coercive that you don't even know what's happening.
And that was the case for me. So I, Um,
I grew up in a good home and a good family,
but there was some sexual abuse in my childhood and
that really imprinted on me and just I think affected
how I saw myself and and my sense of self
worth and value and and so um, when I got
into my early teen years, I really started acting out.
(07:34):
I think from that that place of trauma, acting out, sexually,
acting out with drugs and alcohol, and I like, you
can't tell anybody, right, right, I mean, and I think
I just felt like the secret shame and confusion and um,
I'm sorry, yeah, I mean it's it's so sad, right,
and I mean the statistics on that are horrific, which
I don't even want to think about as a girl mom. Right,
I'm like, I'm like, don't look at my child, like,
(07:55):
don't no one is allowed to go anywhere near my
child because it is. Um. The statistics on that are
horrific really and um and so with the statistics on
child sexual abuse. So yeah, I mean it's just like
that that in and of itself and the damage it does.
And it's always someone close to the kids, yes, because
it's a trusted person that you know, a friend or
(08:17):
a family member or in my case, it was an
after school care and you know, you're as a parent,
you're interested, yes, And so you think about that and
it's like, my daughter goes to a little preschool now,
and like just to think that something like that could
happen when you're sending or trying your parents are trying
to keep you safe, yes, you know, yeah, yeah, And
(08:37):
so those things are really important for us to understand
as parents, to really have like a watchful eye on
behaviors from your child and stuff. Because I know like
my mom will talk about that time and she she
always says, I thought it was so weird that you
wouldn't take your coat off when you came home from there.
You never wanted to take your coat off. And um,
I still love coats today. But why was that just?
I think just because yeah, the coat made me feel safe.
(09:00):
And they just kind of wrote it off, right, they
because they didn't know what was going on. They just said, oh,
how cute she she really loves her coat. Um right.
I mean it's just you think about that stuff. But
I think it's important to really recognize your children and see, Okay,
if they're doing something that's off and you see a
behavior that you're questioning when they're coming back from a
place like that and there's uh and you're and you're
(09:23):
questioning it in your gut as a parent, go with that,
fallok into that, follow through with that, ask questions, talk
to other parents, because it wasn't until many years later
that it came out that it was happening to a
bunch of the kids in this How do community? How
do they do that with all the kids there? Do
they go to a private room? Yeah? So, I I
don't remember all the details because I, um my brain
(09:45):
actually blocked in, yeah, which I'm grateful for. I remember
a little flashes, but my older sister remembers the details,
and um, I know that it was happening in bath
in the bathroom because that's like where my trauma kind
of was always and where I like where I I
was like afraid to go into bathrooms without with the
door closed, like I wouldn't. I would never close the
door in the bathroom and I would freak out if
(10:05):
someone closed the door. And so my parents also saw
stuff like that, and they were like, why does she
freak out so much about being in the bathroom? Why
does why is the door closed such a big deal? Um?
And so yeah, that, uh, those kinds of red flags
in retrospect, they probably should have investigated. But you just
would never think as a parent, you would never think
that anyone you know or trust would hurt a child.
(10:30):
So fast forward to those years where I was, you know,
in my teenage years acting out from that trauma. Um
I UM, I started becoming very promiscuous and I was
the party girl and it was fun for a while,
and I was I was enjoying myself and I thought
I was being young and cool and having a good time,
and it was the nineties. I was raving, it was
(10:52):
you know, and this was like San Francisco in the nineties,
like the heart of the rave scene culture. I was
in it. I was living my best life. Um. But
that kind of quickly spiraled downhill and and I started
having a lot of consequences, and I started getting arrested,
and I started ending up an abusive relationships and abusive situations.
The drugs got harder and harder, to the point that
(11:13):
I was all of a sudden addicted to meth. And
you know, I thought I was just having a good time,
and all of a sudden, the drugs and alcohol had
taken over my life and started making choices for me. Um.
And then at nineteen, I met a man at a
party who was very charming and charismatic, and I think
he saw me from across the room and was like
(11:34):
that one, the drunk one with no self esteem. Um,
I'll take that one, and and he I know, um yeah,
I mean I was targeted for sure. And earlier before
we started recording, we were talking about how traffickers look
for easy targets, right, and they want that path of
least resistance. They don't want to traffic a girl who's
(11:54):
secure in her identity and her sense of self worth
and comes from good parents who she's calling every week. Right,
he found me, and I was perfect because I was
already estranged from my parents at that point, um fully
addicted to drugs and alcohol and acting out sexually and
um leading with my sexuality already, And so it was
very easy for him to take me from that to
(12:17):
two clicks to the right, and and he could suggest
that um that he starts selling me and and I
actually was feeling like that was a step up from
what I was experiencing, just um, you know, giving it
away essentially, And he was like, well, I want to
take care of you, and and all you have to
do is do this in exchange. And this scenario that
I that I walked through, this trafficking scenario that I
(12:39):
walked through, is actually what we seem most commonly in
trafficking scenarios here in America, where it's a point a
person who comes in as a boyfriend and manipulates the situation.
And pretty quickly I learned he had other women, and
that created a sense of competition where I wanted to
be his favorite. I wanted to be the best. Think
you loved him, absolutely, I mean, and I thought you
(13:00):
loved me, you know. And and he was the first
person who made me feel like valued. And even him
selling me, even him suggesting that he sell me, was it.
He made it seem like it was like, you're so valuable,
You're so beautiful, men would pay so much for you.
Who are the types of people that want to buy this?
I mean it's mostly lonely men, I hate to say it,
(13:20):
you know, like men who have like jobs and stuff. Yes, absolutely,
and men who like you think, are like respectable men. Absolutely,
I mean, I um. You know my scenario where I
was being trafficked. I was living in Boston, Massachusetts at
the time. I was in college. UM, I was at
a top musical theater conservatory, and I was being sold
to men in Harvard Square who were professors and um
(13:41):
and who were family men and who were um, you know,
who were uh. You would pass by them on the
street and you definitely would never think they were buying sex.
Do they think they're buying a prostitute or what do
they think they're buying? Yeah, And that's the problem because
I think there's this myth out there that like, oh,
prostitutes are all just like they love their work and
they just they're just dying to have sex with you
(14:03):
and how fun, you know, and just like this fantasy
behind like a prostitution, right and then and then even
for for girls who have been pulled into um prostitution,
it's I mean almost a hundred percent of the time
it is a trafficking situation. UM. I think the statistics
are of of prostitutes, and I put that in air quotes,
(14:23):
are are experiencing exploitation, are being forced into it through
through a trafficker or a pimp, through force, fraud, or coercion,
which leaves another fifteen percent that I guess you could
say maybe are um happy to do it, But you
have to wonder what life circumstances have have made them
want that or or choose that, right, UM, I would say,
(14:45):
in in my from my experience and the women I
work with, a dent of the women working in prostitution
either have a sexual trauma and their their childhood or
a history of abuse and their family. Um, there's always
a reason that someone ends up damage to the point
that they think it's the best life option to sell
(15:06):
their body. And so I think it's important for men
to know, hey, when you're buying sex, like, you're not
buying sex from some willing girl, um, you are buying
sex from someone who is most likely being exploited on
the other end. And I think that's so so important,
it's so important. And the same thing is true pornography.
You know, people watch pornography thinking this is just innocent
(15:27):
and I'm just seeing people act out my fantasies. But
the same statistics are true of the women acting in pornography.
They are almost of the time not there by choice.
They are there because there's someone pulling the strings exploiting them. Oftentimes,
these these videos are being recorded even without their knowledge, um,
which Pornhub is now being like sued dramatically for releasing
(15:48):
so much content that was released without people's permission. So
it's so important for us to to understand as a society,
how us going thinking like innocently. I mean, I don't
know how innocent it is, but that I'll just go bisex,
You're actually creating a massive problem on the back end
with supply and demand, and the demand the supply needing
to meet the demand and the supply having to come
(16:11):
from exploitation. So when you started, when you started it,
when you're in college in Boston, what was it. Did
you enjoy it in the beginning or not? Not not
necessarily like the sex part, But did you like, I
feel like you were, like you said, you wanted to
compete and be the best, And do you feel like
you were like in something that you were kind of
like did you ever? I never did. I mean, I
(16:33):
know there are other people i've I've worked with who
who were okay, who felt comfortable in it. I actually
never felt comfortable in it. Um. I felt really icky
from day one. Um, you know, I think partially because
like I mean, our sexuality is so like precious, and
you know, it's like even even though I was like
giving it away, at least I was like choosing who
I was giving it away to. It was like, oh,
(16:54):
the hot guy from the club or whatever. But this
was like I didn't have a choice, and I felt that.
I felt that really immediately. And yeah, you didn't have
the choice in the situation. Yeah, when you're Yeah, it
was gross. It was just gross, Like I just felt
gross and I felt so disgusting about myself, and I
saw really quickly. I mean I was already not in
a good headspace, but very quickly I just felt awful
(17:15):
and like it just kept getting worse and worse, and
my sense of self worth and dignity just got more
and more degraded, to the point that I was completely suicidal.
And so I just kept getting drunk and high and
then not showing up for the jobs he was lining
up for me. So what happened Then he kicked me out.
So I ended up homeless because he because I stopped
showing up for the jobs he was lining up for me,
(17:37):
he didn't want anything to do with me anymore. He
kicked me out, and um, and so I was. I
was homeless and um and and just surviving however, I could.
Were you living with him before before? I? Yeah? Before
I had been. I mean it was I don't know
if I would say living with him. I was crashing
at his place, um, but but yeah, I had. He
(17:57):
had been letting me stay with him. I had actually
gotten evicted from an apartment even before that, because he'd
encouraged me to stop paying my rent and kind of
set up a scenario where my only option was to
stay with him, which then set up the scenario even
further that I had to do whatever he asked and
depend on him solely exactly and so um. But then
there were times when he would be with another woman
and he would lock me out and I was like
(18:19):
scrambling to try to find anywhere else to sleep. So
even while I was living with him, he created this
sense of instability that at any point I knew if
I didn't do what he wanted, I was out. And
ultimately I was out for good in February of two
thousand one, and UM and ended up um on the
streets and just going home with whoever would take me home.
(18:40):
I would I did what's called survival sex, where I
would go into a bar and just like try to
find someone to take me home with them so that
I had a place to sleep. Occasionally I would meet
someone who would let me stay for a few days
or a little while, and that was like the best
I could hope for. Um. And then I ended up
just completely wrecked and on the floor of a public
(19:01):
bathroom in February of two thousand one, and I was
watching my tears hit the floor, and I just said,
God help me, and I'd never believed in God. I
didn't know many god people, had no experience with God.
But that night I met someone who got me into
a recovery program. And I've been sober since that day
and safe since that day. Life just completely turned around
from that moment. So him kicking you out was a
(19:23):
huge blessing. Is the best thing that can ever happen
to you getting kicked out by your trafficker? Yeah, I
mean for a long time, I was like, Wow, I
am the ultimate failure. Like you think prostitution is the
lowest you can go in society, but I went one
lower and like failed at prostitution. But it ended up
being the biggest blessing that could ever have happened. And
and at that point, to having nowhere to go was
(19:44):
actually a blessing. I you know, my family had kind
of tough loved me because they knew I was an
addict and they knew I was going down a bad path,
and so they had separated themselves from me and cut
me off. And that was the best thing they could
have done too, because I had nowhere to go. I
ended up completely really lost and hopeless, and I was
able to hit bottom at the age of twenty one,
(20:04):
instead of you know, having anyone enabling me and and
letting that addiction and that lifestyle go on. Any That's
a good point. So that is why they say to
tough to do the tough look, yeah, because otherwise you
can just keep skating by, yeah, and then you never
hit bottom, so you never get help. Right. Had I
not been homeless, alone, addicted, lost in and out of jail,
(20:25):
you know, totally defeated, and having failed at the one
backup plan I had, which was prostitution, right, I would
never have gotten to the point where I was on
my knees and willing to cry out for help from
God or recovery community or anyone at all. Right, did
you meet someone in the bathroom? No, it was later
that night. So I actually went to a party that
night and was just trying to get drunk and high
(20:45):
and ended up meeting someone at this party that didn't drink,
and I was like trying to. I would always just
go to go around to men and ask them if
they had anything to drink, and he was like, no,
I don't drink, and I'm like, well, what are you
doing here? I was like, why don't you drink? And
he said, it's a long story. And I was like,
love to hear that long story about why you don't drink.
And he shared his whole story with me, and it
sounded just like mine. He'd been through so much of
(21:07):
the same stuff I had been through, but he had
gone to a recovery program and gotten sober and his
life had started to turn around. And at that point
he was eighteen years old, and he was three years sober,
and he'd gotten sober when he was like fifteen. And
I remember thinking, Man, if I'd gotten sober when I
was fifteen, like, think of all those rapes that never
would have happened, Think of all those arrests that never
would have happened. I would have graduated from high school.
(21:29):
And then the very next thought was, Holly, you are
twenty one years old. If you got sober today, think
of all those future rapes that won't happen. I think
of all those future arrests that won't happen. I think
of the life you could build that this you know,
you might never have to go to jail again. And
in this whole new life just unraveled before my eyes
that I could I could be a whole new person,
and you are. The life you are living today is extraordinary.
(21:54):
It's it's definitely beyond my wildest dreams. I mean we're
just running through your life when you got in here
and it's like, oh my gosh, it's beautiful and what
you've done with your company. So tell me what happened?
You turn it over, You went to recovery and from
that day forward, like you just you stayed in that program?
(22:14):
Were you able to how did you work through it all? Like?
What was the process? It was a long journey. I
mean I spent a lot of years in and out
of counseling. I say, in and out because I would
try it, it wouldn't work, I'd go back again years later,
you know. I mean just like I kind of tried everything,
um and so over the years, it was just this
journey of like getting better and then like hitting bottom
again and you know and emotionally and um, bad relationship
(22:37):
after bad relationship. I mean that was the area of
my life that just took the longest to heal. And
just to be even attracted to a man that wasn't
like an abusive narcissist. Yeah, yeah, I would meet an
abusive narcissist and be like he's so hot, He's my type.
You're the one, yeah, um, and so yeah. It was
just a long, long journey of recovering. And and then
(22:58):
over those years I started to work with other women
and mentor other women and sponsor other women in that
recovery program, and I saw myself and them, and I
saw the challenges I faced, and one of those really
was was rebuilding um, my life and from an employment standpoint,
because I had a criminal record right Um, I had
been a drug dealer and a prostitute, and I'd failed
at both, and so it was like where do I
(23:20):
Where do I go from here? And and I and
I saw that time and time again with women I
was working with, was like the big missing piece here.
And the thing that ultimately ended up helping me rebuild
was when I when I got into a career that
I loved and I was able to find purpose and
meanings and success and and so I started to see
(23:40):
that this missing link in the recovery piece was not
getting trauma care and finding housing. It was it was
finding meaningful and dignified employment that was going to sustain
the rest of my life. And and for them, it
was that was what I saw missing for them too,
And so this dream really got birth to building a
place that could be a safe landing place for women
(24:02):
coming out of trafficking and violence and addiction and incarceration
and being a place that that would rebuild their lives
and their resumes and that sense of self worth and
value and dignity. And early on I had worked for
the Shoe Shine Stand that was this. It was like
it was all people in recovery, and it was like
a place where we all were like trying to get better,
(24:23):
and everyone understood that everyone was in recovery, and we
were all like early in recovery, and we were allowed
to cry at work, and if someone was having a
bad day, you could like go home and take a nap.
But all day long we were shining shoes and these
shoes would come in all dirty and we would get
to make them beautiful. And so all day long I
started getting this message that I'm someone who makes beautiful things.
I'm someone who makes beautiful things. I can take broken
(24:45):
things and make them beautiful, and it was so sweet
and it really started to rebuild my self esteem. And
so with Sanctuary Project and this this dream and this beautiful.
Isn't this special? All day long? You heard that, yes,
only in front of your face. And it's and it's
who I am today. Like if you ask me, like
who I am to my court today, I would say,
(25:05):
I'm someone who makes beautiful things, because it's so it's
so got implanted in me that this is who I am.
I can take something broken and I can make it beautiful.
And so with with the women I get to employ today,
we do the same thing, right, Like, they come in
and they see a pile of chain and a pile
of jump rings, and a pile of pendance and a
pile of ear ring hooks, and and then we get
(25:25):
to train them to make beautiful things. And all day
long they're making beautiful things, and they're packaging beautiful things,
and they're selling beautiful things, and they're building a company
that's full of beautiful things. And and so I watch
them transformed today because they come in, you know, and
they're always like, I'm not really into girly stuff, Like
I'm not, you know, I don't like jewelry, but like
I'm really grateful for a job, you know, I'm happy
(25:46):
to be here, and but I'm probably not going to
ever wear the jewelry, and I'm like, totally, that's fine.
And then they'll be working with us for like a
month and they're like, I guess I like this one necklace.
And then after three months they're like head to toe
Sanctuary Project jewelry. They're wearing dresses, they're like, they're wearing makeup,
and and I see this like identity being re birthed
in them of like I'm someone who makes beautiful things.
(26:07):
I'm a beautiful thing. My friends are beautiful things. Um.
And so it's such a beautiful gift to get to
see that transformation time and again in not just in
my own life, but but now in so many other
women's lives. Dang, Holly, that's a really big deal that
you took your story and your journey and you made
(26:29):
it beautiful things with it. I mean, how did you
just how did you come up with jewelry? How did
you come up with like, I want to do jewelry.
So I had visited an organization in Thailand back in
Tleven called night Light, and they worked with women coming
out of the brothels, coming out of trafficking in Bangkok
in the Pet Pong Red light district, and they trained
them to make jewelry. And I saw these girls like
(26:51):
sitting in a circle together making jewelry and they would
finish a piece and hold it up and the other
girls were like, wow, that's so beautiful. And and I
saw this sweet community they built um And and for me,
one thing that was always frustrating was like I bought
a couple of the pieces, but I never wore them
because they weren't my style. You know. They were kind
of they were like beated and feathered, and like it's
(27:12):
a look, it's a mood, but it's not my mood,
you know, and love that and and I and I
always felt a little bit frustrated with the sort of
compassion jewelry business world because it felt like it was
um It felt like it was missing that fashion piece.
It felt like it was missing that I for what
are the trends, what do women love? What are women
(27:33):
buying and wearing? What are the big brands doing? And
how can we do something that that has that same feeling?
And so I had always kind of dreamed of maybe
maybe going and working with some of these organizations and
helping them to make jewelry that was on trend and
that was something that Western women would want to buy,
and then we could get into a Nordstrom, and that
we could get into target, into target, what's up, you
(27:54):
got your jewey and targeting. But that means such a
testament to write that, like what we've created, it is
something that it's not just something that you're going to
be drawn to because you care about fighting trafficking and
you want to employ survivors. I actually want to wear it.
I want our jewelry to be something that stands on
its own and that you would buy and wear just
because it's cute and just because it's priced rite and
(28:16):
just because it's price so right. Yeah, I mean that's
like that forty dollar necklace price point right where it's
like I can buy a forty dollars exactly and it's
beautiful and it's beautiful. And that's where that's where I
started to realize we we were missing that piece in
the social impact world of creating product that actually had
a market already existing for it. Because if you're buying
(28:37):
a necklace just to support survivors of trafficking, you're going
to make that purchase one time. But if you're buying
a necklace to support survivors of trafficking that you love
and you're wearing all the time. More you're gonna have
conversations with people where they're like, that necklace is so cute?
Where is that from? And then you're talking about us
and the word spreads and so I really I think
saw this this market for a different kind of comp
(29:00):
fashion product that had a trendy piece to it. And
so it's been so fun because I've always been a
girly girl and a fashion girl and I'm just having
a blast like watching trends and getting to create things
based on on what the trends are, but tie them
back to our purpose and our mission. And you know,
if we're doing chain necklaces like what I'm wearing that
are that are sort of a trend that's been happening
(29:20):
for the last year, I'm making it a chain breaker
necklace and we're going to talk about how we're breaking
chains of slavery and and if you know, and if
the coin necklace is a trend, we're going to make
coins that that talk about UM, about the Saint, the
patron Saint of trafficking and of trafficked women, and and
um and find ways to tie it back to our
missions so that people can feel good about shopping those trends,
but also know that they're doing much more than that. Wow,
(29:45):
So how did you start this? I mean, how did
you start a business? Obviously my kitchen? Yeah, I don't
even know how to do it, and I didn't how
did you? Guys? I'm still trying to figure it out.
And now you're running a company that's a target with
a lot of employees, you're saving lives, Like, how do
you do this? I mean? It was really just like
one step at a time in some ways. I mean
I had, well, first of all, the only other business
I've ever built with my drug dealing business when I
(30:06):
was seventeen. So I knew about margins, I knew about
customer service, I knew about supply and demand, um. But
I but I had to learn everything else. So I
I mean, I taught myself how to make jewelry watching
videos on YouTube and um and just like found a
supplier I could buy chains from and dependence from, and
I'm putting together pieces on my kitchen table. And then
I met a girl in the jail who was coming
(30:27):
out and needed a job. And then she's sitting there
with me, making jewelry with me at my kitchen table.
But I had to really learn how to run a
business in the midst of all of this, and um,
but I did it so like one step at a time.
You know. I look at it today and I'm like,
how is this? How did this happen? Because I only
remember waking up each day and just doing the thing
that was in front of me. Build a website. Okay,
(30:49):
I can do that on like Wicks, you know. Um,
you know, Register is a business, Okay, I can do that.
Register is a nonprofit. Okay, I can do that. And
just learning one step at a time what I needed
to do. And a lot of our first two years
were really me throttling growth because I felt like there
was momentum and I felt like there was a market
for it, and people were loving the jewelry and they
were wanting to shop, and I was getting wholesale in
(31:12):
querries and things right away, and I was like, I'm
not ready for this. I need to make sure I
have a really stable business in place before I allow
any growth to happen. And so so much of it
was like learning how to hold back and say no
to even opportunities and doors I would have wanted to
walk through, because I knew I needed to get a
solid structure in place that could scale. And so today
(31:33):
now I'm I. You know, now I look at like
all the work I did in years one and two,
and now we're only in year three. I mean, we're
still we're I mean it's we just had our three
year anniversary in February, so we're still a really young company.
But now I'm seeing just exponential growth because we did
that groundwork and I and I leaned back and I said,
I need to make sure I build a structure that
(31:54):
can sustain this, because ultimately, everything I do, I want
to create a sense of safety and secure prity for
the women we employ. And so a lot of that
is even in our systems. And there are times when
I've had to say, we're not we're not in growth mode.
This quarter. We do a sort of quarterly planning, and
I've had to say to the girls, this this quarter
is about everyone here finding sanctuary. So there's some girls
(32:15):
who need to be in counseling. There's some stuff going
on in my personal life this year. This quarter, We're
not going to grow this quarter, we're staying stable, and
so a lot of a lot of running this business
is actually about taking a pulse on my team and
what they can handle in any given season, and then
and then sort of adjusting our speed accordingly and saying, okay,
what can I handle? What can they handle? All right,
let's go full force. Like last fall we went full
(32:37):
force with the Target release, and right now we've pulled
back a little bit because we know we can and
and um and and that feels safe and um and
there's a lot of there's a lot of changes happening
in people's lives right now. But then fall we're planning
on going full force again. And so it's fun to
actually run a business in a really unique way that
it's not just about it's not just about making money
(32:57):
and right on what it's actually about the whole for
the variants of the people working with the wow and
it's really cleol. So it's like, I'm not just looking
at the numbers, I'm looking at the results, which is
the lives of the women that we're working with. And
if my production manager is trying to get her degree
right now, which she is, and she's amazing, and she's
like in school full time and working full time. I'm like,
(33:19):
that's more important to me than than doing X number
of dollars in sales this quarter. I want her to
get through. I want K which is her first initial,
to get through school, you know. I want her to
get through this semester at school that's been very stressful.
Or my director of operations is looking at a move
and potentially you know, moving out of Sanctuary Project and
going on to her next career move, and so I
(33:41):
want to make space for that, you know, And we
all are processing that with her, and we're taking time
and we're pulling back, and we're getting other people trained
to move into her role. And all of this feels
so special because it's not the way a typical companies are.
Un Right, everything was soul and hard. That's the hope. Wow, Holly,
So if you want to job, you can come work.
I mean, it's beautiful, it's pretty special. It's just amazing
(34:04):
that you are able to carry those values so strongly
through an actual company that's running. Like you are not
willing to sacrifice any of that to make money, which
is incredible. Your purpose is to heal these women and
then make beautiful things and what's cool is we end
up making money at the end of the day. I
think because the internal culture is healthy, and because the
(34:27):
women that are working for us feel valued and feel
safe and I feel safe. We actually are doing really well.
And so even when we're throttling back, like, we're still
seeing growth, and even when we're pulling back and um
and trying not to overwhelm ourselves, we're still doing really well.
It's like nothing gets lost when we're focusing on on
(34:48):
that care for the soul. Wow. How many employees do
you have or how many girls are on your team
right now? It's nine? Wow, And it's such a sweet group.
I I feel like it's a sisterhood and a and
sweet community. And we've been as as large as twelve
and as small as four, and um, this feels like
a really sweet spot. Um. But I also feel ready
for growth in the next probably in the fall or
(35:10):
the winter. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like I feel like
we're ready to scale up and I'm excited to see
what that looks like. How do people find you to
join your team? So Sanctuary project dot com best place
to go, and you can find us on social media too,
So Sanctuary Underscore project and um, yeah, send a d
M or or contact us and we um if if
(35:31):
there's a survivor of trafficking, violence and addiction listening, please
reach out and become a part of our community, even
if it's not as an employee. We want to know you,
and we want to be in a relationship with you,
and we want to point you to resources for healing
and hope and um and we want to walk alongside
you and probably send you send you jewelry and and
help you to feel a part of us, even if
(35:52):
you're in a different city and can't be with us physically.
So what what do you want to tell women who
might be listening, who are in the throes of it?
Like how do you get out? Like how do you
encourage someone to like take those steps? What's the first step?
I think the first step is recognizing that there's a
problem always, you know. I mean this is in the
recovery community. It's like the first step is admitting you
(36:13):
have a problem. You probably already know you have a problem. Um,
you know. For me, I was easily able to identify
that the relationship was violent and that I was struggling
with addiction and maybe I wasn't ready to identify as
a trafficking survivor, but I knew that there was something wrong.
And so if you're listening today and you know there's
something wrong in the relationship you're in, and you know
(36:33):
that there's something manipulative or coercive happening in your life
right now, I just would say, you know they're you're
not alone, there's hope, there's help. UM. The National Human
Trafficking Hotline is a wonderful resource you can call that
is not going to interrupt your life, where you can
just get information about where to go and what to
do if you decide you want to leave. UM. I
(36:56):
am a big proponent of people staying as long as
they need to to hit bottom and UM, but don't
stay one day too long, because you know, we've also
seen girls die in this and so so know that
you are, that you are loved, and that there's a
community of survivors waiting for you on the other side.
And UH, and I hope that you feel empowered to
reach out to me today and to reach out to
(37:17):
my team at Sanctuary Project and UM and find out
what your true value is. That you are made for
so much more than this, and that you're actually made
to make beautiful things. That's amazing. Ah gosh, this is
really powerful stuff, Like you are an angel on this earth. Holly. Oh,
I don't know about that. I mean, I've done some stuff,
(37:41):
but you, but you have just turned your life into
something so beautiful in what you're I just like, it's
just incredible to me how you have taken all of
your pain and all the trauma and you figured out
how to make this beautiful company that's just so power full.
Like I mean, I can't get over it. Honestly, it
(38:03):
feels like a gift. I think, like when you've walked
through so much heartbreak and pain, to see it used
for good is like the only gift you really can
get out of it. Because I can't go back and
have a different life, right, I can't. I can't go
back and unho trauma. I can't go back and make
a different choice and not go home with that guy
that night, you know, um, with my trafficker um. And
(38:24):
I can't go back and undo any of the pain
that happened to me or the pain I caused. But
I can I can see how it gets used today
for for good and and that makes it all. I
don't want to say worth it because it's like is
it ever worth it? Right? But it does make it
all feel like, um, like hope is not lost and
(38:46):
and that there's that there's something I have to offer
from it that can help someone else. That's amazing. Okay,
so tell me how you have to Paris because you
lived in Paris for a while, which is incredible. Yes,
and it's funny. So I actually, um, I thought I
was gonna We talked about how I thought I was
going to go and work for one of these nonprofits
helping them make on trend jewelry. And so I did
(39:06):
a little trip around the world sort of like trying
to decide and visiting all these different organizations that were
doing this work and trying to decide if I would
want to move to one of these places. So I
started in South Africa, and then I went to Ethiopia, Kenya, UM, Uh, Egypt,
UM and then UH and then Thailand, Cambodia, UM and
(39:28):
then and then UM, Middle East, a little bit, Turkey, Greece,
and then down to Australia and New Zealand. And at
the end of this trip, after visiting with all these organizations.
I didn't feel like I knew what I wanted and um,
and so I was like, well, I'll just go to
my favorite city because at this point, like I had
Airbnb my my condo in San Francisco, and I was
(39:49):
like I was on the road, right, like I was
living on the road. It was kind of like the
Amazing Race, except there was never any like money that
I was going to win. But I did have the
money from my Airbnb right in the Golden Prize of Jewel. Yeah,
in the Golden Prize of like maybe I'd find my purpose. Um,
but yes, it was. It was totally an eat, Pray love.
It was definitely that. And it was like I was
in my early thirties and still still single and just
(40:11):
like I don't know what I'm doing with my life,
but I might as well have an adventure, right um
And and I didn't have cameras following me, which was nice,
and no one was chasing me and there was no clock.
So so I, um, at the end of that trip,
really didn't know what I wanted. And I was like,
I'll just go to Paris for the summer, and um,
and I'll just kind of like you know, spend some
time in Paris, being my favorite city, and just let
(40:33):
it all soak in and and just kind of try
to figure out what's next. And while I was there, I, um,
there was a church in my neighborhood and I had
done music stuff with the church. I my degrees in
musical theater and so I'd always been a singer and
I and I'd worked in a church in San Francisco
leading music there and and so I just told that
church like, Hey, I'm in town and I'm a singer,
(40:53):
and I'd love to I'd love to, like, you know,
sing with you guys if if there's an opportunity for that,
and they were like, yes, come be with us, and
um and then um. While I was there, it turned
out that the woman who was leading their music was
actually about to leave and go on maternity leave, and
they were like, we want you to stay and take
over her job. And and so I ended up, just
like with the Sweet Gig, leading the music for this
(41:16):
church for one service on Sundays. We had band practice
on Saturday service on Sunday, and then the rest of
the week I was able to just be in Paris
and and write and I mean it was just this
like dream country. It was a dream. I mean, it
was like living in Paris the single and it was
as dreamy as you imagine it would be. My apartment
had a view of the Eiffel Tower. I was on
the same block as the Eiffel Tower, so like so
(41:38):
like out my window was literally like the Eiffel Tower.
It was just right there enough, like enough to get by. Yeah,
I speak French badly like an immigrant, but yes, it
was there like a language bearer or was that fine?
It was fine, you know. I think what I found
was that most French people want to practice their English,
and I wanted to practice my French. And so most
of my conversations were me speaking bad friend at people
(41:59):
with them speaking bad English back at me. And it
was like it worked, It worked, and it was so romantic.
I mean it was just I fell in love with
This is going to sound cheesy, but I fell in
love with myself in that time, you know, like it
was like I mean, it was like the pray love
and like that was the love, like you really fell
in love with yourself. You It wasn't easy. It was
a me season and I'm so grateful I had it
(42:21):
because I ended up. My husband and I had met
before that in San Francisco, but he never asked me out.
And then he waited till I was like dating someone
else and we lived in different countries, and then he
asked me out. I mean always always, always right. Yes,
Chip Gains would never do that. You would never do
you know You're right. He probably asked her out like
the day he met her. He was you, I love you,
let's get married. Yes, But my husband just stared at
(42:45):
me awkwardly when we were around each other, and then
waited two years and and a whole continent away to
ask me out. Um, but we did start dating and um,
and and had like our whole dating time and got
married in Paris, and um, he actually moved to Paris
for us to be together at day. It was so romantic.
I mean, we had this courtship just like in the
(43:05):
back with the backdrop of of Paris. How fun did
he moved there with you? It was really sweet, It
was really special and um, and just a time that
like I cherish and treasure and um, I'm a great
way to start your relationship totally. I mean it was
a dream. It was a dream, and I think there's
times now when we look back and we hold onto that.
You know, it's like we've always have Paris anyone in
(43:29):
those moments when we're hating each other, and like, at
least we had a dream courtship, you know, exactly, at
least I can remember those times when like the Eiffel
Tower was twinkling and we were eating crepes and he
was holding me, and yeah, it's perfect, it's perfect. It's
pretty perfect. Oh my gosh. And now you have Havanatanna
and she's perfect too, perfect, I mean, little dream trial.
(43:52):
You said her name, and I'm like, are we done recording?
Can I go be with her? I know, I love
playing at the house and yeah, I up to How
has being a mom changed you? The coolest thing about
being a mom for me is like I thought I
had too much trauma to be a mom. I thought
that I wouldn't be able to love um. I thought
that um my relationship with my mom was really strained
(44:13):
and really hard, and I thought I would have that
same tension. So I was afraid. I was afraid to
become a mom. And I cannot even tell you, but
the moment that girl came out, my whole world was hers,
and I have never experienced a love like that, And
I think I UM, I believe so, I really believe
so many lies about myself that I wasn't capable of loving,
(44:37):
of being, of being loving and of loving, of like
really unselfishly totally fully loving with my whole heart. And UM,
I didn't think I was nurturing. I didn't think that
I was UM. I didn't think I could be soft.
I didn't think I thought that it would feel like
a burden when she cried or needed something from me.
But it's just been the sweetest gift. It showed me
(44:58):
who I actually am. Like it showed me that no,
I am loving, I am nurturing and UM and everything
you're supposed to feel as a mom, like like that
sense of purpose and meaning I have. I feel all
those things, you know, And I think it's been the
most healing thing I've ever been through, actually, because I
feel like I UM. It feels like the completion in
(45:19):
a way of of this story that I now get
to UM have this beautiful, perfect relationship. I mean it's
perfect because she's only two, but like, I've never felt
anything negative toward her. I don't even know how to
describe it. But it's like when she's frustrated, I'm just like,
how can I help you? Know? And when she's sad,
I'm like, how can I make you feel better? And
(45:40):
they're just it's just the sweetest thing. And it feels
really God given, like it feels like I mean, it's
like we're it's like we're just made for it. And
and I think I was afraid I was broken and
that I wasn't made for it. Um. But to find
out that I am has been just so sweet and redemptive, yes,
and and and really has like healed my relationship with
(46:00):
my mom in a way too, because that helped it
has I think, just to understand the love of a mother,
because I think I just never I never thought that
I never felt loved. I think or I never understood
it or something. Um. But but now to understand the
love of our time of showing love, especially like even
like the older generation, it wasn't as like nurturing necessarily.
(46:21):
They weren't free to like Machigo show lass or. And
I think that and I think there were probably expectations
and things she had mixed in there that I probably
have let go of, um because I'm just like glad
I'm alive, you know, And I'm glad she's alive, and
I'm like, we're all alive, but this is remaining, you know,
yes where you know when I'm also forty one now,
and like I had her when I was thirty nine,
(46:42):
and like my mom was Like when I think about
how older moms were when they had us, my mom
was like twenty four or something. I'm like three, moly,
Like don't get like, do not give twenty four year
old me a child? She wouldn't mess her up so badly.
That's what I'm talking about. I feel grateful to be
an older mom. I feel like it is a huge
blessing because especially when you just so desperately want to
(47:03):
be a mom, Yeah, and then you finally get that
gift and you're like, I got it. I get to
do it. And the same thing, I had all the
fears like I don't know how to do any of this,
like what's going to happen? But I felt so unbelievably
grateful to be a mom. It's just because you realize
how precious it is and like how amazing it is,
and like it's like miraculous every day feels like a miracle.
(47:24):
I can't believe that that little child is mine, Like
I like, I can't believe she's mine. I know, and
we get to keep them forever ever. I mean, I
guess at one point they'll move away, but like they're
listening them same, I'm gonna get a little port. I'm
be right here, like I'm not going to bother you,
but like you can always come over. And then I
got excited the other day like she's going to have
(47:45):
kids too, and then I can be like all up
in their life and like be like like Grandma all
up and everything everywhere. So I'm never she's never getting
rid of me. I am going to be annoying mom
who's saying we like we're matching outfits all the time
and we're really cheesy. That's really cute. That's so cute.
It's the best. And the other thing is like I
think I've spent my whole life looking for a purpose,
and meaning I wrote a book, I traveled the world.
(48:05):
All yeah, tell me about your book. Well, I mean,
I wrote a book. You know, you can find it
on Amazon, but it's called From Basement to sanc Based
Into Sanctuary and it tells my story. But but but
what I think, Like I spent so much of my
life trying to find meaning, even building Sanctuary Project and
working with other survivors, And what's been so cool about
being a mom is like everything I was searching for
in all of those things that I thought would give
(48:27):
me meaning, I actually found it in just being a mom.
And I was like, I feel you, dude, I should
have just done this earlier. I didn't even need to
do all that stuff. I feel you on this same
were you Like I didn't even need to be a
country star and an amazing race star, and like you
didn't need any of this, right I was. I've been
trying to validate myself my whole life, like I always
like insecurity and I don't really even know why, Like
(48:48):
I didn't have any kind of trauma our society tells
us to write it's like prove your worth. Yeah, I
always just felt like I wasn't good enough and like that,
you know, just struggled all that stuff. And so I've
spent a whole life trying to validate myself. Like here
I am on amis your rays. Here I'm a country singer.
Here I am like validated by people who are cool
and like. But for now, I'm like, I don't even care.
(49:11):
I don't even care because everything that was missing is
like fulfilled in them. It's like, oh my gosh, Like
this is actually what matters is this is it? And
all I want to do is just be sunny all
day day. I mean, I'm I'm sorry to say it,
but like a part of me just wants to like
quit Sanctuary Project and shut it up down and just
be like a stay at home mom. Yes, so if
you're a stay at home mom listening like you have
(49:32):
a good girl, I know, I know, I know. I
feel you so much. I feel so thankful, and I
can't wait for our girls. I know they're already like
I feel it. I mean, they're they're they're little spirits,
just look like they belong together. I can't believe it.
We'll have to like Havannah, how did you come up
with Havannah? Well, we were in Cuba when you got pregnant. No,
(49:53):
not when I got pregnant, but like right after we
got married, and we were trying to get pregnant, and
we were um and we were how we were in
Havannah and I was like I said it, like I
said something like Havannah is beautiful and I and then
I thought like, wow, that's such a beautiful name, and
like I've never known anyone named Havannah. Why does no
one name their daughters Havannah? You hear like every other
(50:14):
city like London and and Savannah and Austin, Austin. Yeah,
I feel like Georgia, like you have like all these
other names that people name their children, but never Havannah.
And then I looked it up and the meaning was
breath of grace, and I thought that was so beautiful,
like just that like the idea that like she would
live her life with this like with this grace on
it and um and just a sweetness on it. And
(50:36):
I loved the idea of like breath and life and
Hava means life and breath and um and anna means
grace or favor. And I just thought that was so
sweet and special and so and we have such a
common last name Hayes, you know, And so I was like, Okay, good,
this will give her like an uncommon name she won't
be one of like Havannah. Hay's a great name. I know.
She sounds like a country star. Right, she sounds like
(50:58):
a star, so she has a total star. She's a
total star. Amazing, Holly, you are amazing. So you already
mentioned where everyone can find you, but tell us again
where we can go find all sanctuary and all of Holly. Yeah,
so find me too. Um. I'm on social media at
Holly Christine Hayes um and uh website is Holly Christine
Hayes dot com. I just launched a podcast called Finding
(51:19):
Sanctuary where we're sharing other people's stories of finding hope
and healing in the midst of a trial. So, um,
find me there too. And and here's some some inspiring
stories like mine from just other other people who have
been through various struggles. So, and you can buy all
Sanctuary jewelry online yep, at Sanctuary project dot com you
(51:40):
can find all the jewelry and um target dot com
if you're a Target girl, that's Target dot com. That's amazing, Holly,
that's amazing. Okay. So I always wrap up. There's a
big plane flying by. We live by. Uh, I guess
the airport in a train track, so we've got lots
of background exciting noises. Um. I always wrap up with
leave your light, which is what do you want people
to know? Which is open ended. Oh my gosh, what
(52:04):
do I want people to know? I think I want
people to know that you are so valuable. You know,
when I think about the things that led to my exploitation,
it was really just wanting to feel like I had value.
And some of the stuff we talked about of like
all those things we do to try to make our
life have meaning. Um, But I think what I've realized
in in my in my life and in this journey
(52:25):
of working with survivors is that we are We are
inherently valuable. Um. You are valuable. If you're here, it's
because you are valuable. There are people that you matter to.
There is a destiny for you. There is a perfect
little place in this world carved out just for you,
and you matter. Wow, Holly, you are amazing. I feel
(52:46):
so honored to like know you and be friends with
you now, and like, God, you're just doing great things.
You're doing amazing things. Thank you. Well. I need all
the friends alongside me doing it because it is not
something I can do alone. So I'm so honored and
scited to meet you and just to be here with you,
and thank you so much for having so got me
to this in person. I know. That's so great. I
(53:07):
know I've been doing in person interviews, you know, and
Zoom is like you would have been like huh. And
then if we wouldn't have had all these connections and
we wouldn't have had my daughter here with me now
playing in your playroom. It's just like the person is
always better, isn't it. It really is, and I'm so
grateful that the world is getting back to that. Thank
you so much for joining Polly Hayes amazing Beacon of Light.
(53:28):
You're incredible. This is awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Hi
Carola, she's a queen. She's getting not afraid of it.
Just let flow. No one cal sounds Carol. Okay, this
is really exciting. It's already even a blast hanging out
(00:31):
with Polly Christine Hayes. We've already been hanging out, like
it feels like for more than an hour, just becoming
friends and so fast friends, which I love. I love
that because you know, like when you meet people like
I like everyone who's like a nice person, and I'm
like pretty much like down to hang with anyone. But
then you meet some people You're like, oh my gosh,
we're like really connecting out a lot of levels really fast.
It's like the Kindred Spirit thing where it's like, wait,
(00:53):
I know your soul and even have daughters who like
look alike and you're like the same age. So yeah,
this is very spy. You're from Austin, which Austin is
near and dear to my heart, from Texas, from Waco, Texas.
My sister, brother in law and nieces live in Austin.
And so did you grow up around the branch Davidians.
That's what everybody thinks. I mean, it's either Branch Davidians
(01:14):
or Joanna Gaines. Joanne again has come in and like
changed everything. It's just I'm so grateful. A really bad
rap with the Branch Davidio. I mean, growing up, that's
all I knew about Waco and now all anyone talks about.
Of course it's Magnolia. So it's either it's either Branch
Davidians or Magnolia. Two cults, both both have strengths in
(01:35):
their own right. Yeah, yeah, no, I mean join against.
Have you been to Magnolia? You're required to when you
live in Texas. I think you're it's a requirement to guess.
I have been like emotional the first time I went
in there. It's beautiful, beautiful. I'm like, yes, I know
she's perfect from just watching on Fix her Upper, and
I like her marriage is amazing. I mean, I'm sure
they obviously have like their life issues. I don't think
(01:57):
they do. I don't think they do either. Actually, Chuckings
is definitely my like celebrity card. I know who ever
thought that he would be like the one that all
of us are growing off. Every wife in America is
like likes. But it's like he's so funny, he's so cool,
and I feel like he really brings a silly out
in her too, because she's not you see it coming.
(02:18):
And then she grounds him too when he needs to
be grounded. I mean they're really perfect. I mean, are
we best friends with him too? What we are? I
was talking about that with someone recently. I've had dreams
that Joanna Gaines and I are like friends and then happen.
I feel like it's going to happen. She would love
thank you. I feel like she would love you too.
I feel like she would love us. I think she
would love us. So if you're a friend of Joanna's
and you're hearing this right now, please send this to
(02:40):
Joanna and say, these girls would be your best friends.
I have a lot to offer, we do. I feel
like you guys can even collaborate. I feel like we should.
I mean we we have been so. I have had
Sanctuary project at celebration one year, which was like incredible,
already happening. It's already happening, right, happen. We're basically there.
So yeah, Joanna, if you're hearing us, we love you.
(03:00):
We love you, Chip. If you're hearing this, we're both
happily married, but we wish our husbands were more like
you because he's so funny. Yes, I mean he really
He's capitalized on his strengths and he like does all
the hard work of like you know, rebuilding houses and
stuff like I just feel like if my husband, it's
just like I have a to do list for my husband,
and all I dream of is like a man like
(03:21):
Chip Gains that would go in there and just knock
out that to do last you know, he seems so
happy to do it. Yes, he's always like in a
great move. Yeah. He's never like you need me to
do what? Really want me to move this wall? He's
always like sure, was like yeah, and he done with
like a funny little dance to thank you. Why don't
our husbands do there to do dance? I'm like, yeah,
why didn't you have a little more fun like Chip,
(03:41):
come on? Okay, So we got it worked out. Magnalia,
Chip and Joanna have it all nailed. They do. They're winning.
They do there, and I think they've probably they're probably
a far better cult than the original. Oh yeah, they've
really they've done a good thing. They've created a good
uh cult mentality. Yeah, of course, you never know where
it's going to go because at one point we I'd
have thought the Branch Davidians had created a good cult too.
(04:02):
So did you watch that series? I did. I was
actually really sad how they got like taken out. I
mean it's terrible. I remember watching it as a kid
on TV, and I mean you must were you there?
Were you living there? So it's like, okay, so you
live in Austin and then like there's like dripping springs
and there's like bauda yeah like that, so it would
be like a Baudha type thing. Okay, so you were
(04:23):
like or like okay, yeah, so you weren't like it's
like thirty minutes outside. Wasn't like you'd see the flames
of the No, no, no, we couldn't see it. They
just tied it to Waco because we're the closest big city.
But I mean it was like right outside of it,
it was this big city. Yeah. But actually Lego has
kind of come a big city. I mean the Doctor
Pepper museums there, everything, people, it's like a tourist traction.
It absolutely is. There's that like miles to Magnolia sign
(04:45):
and people are are journeying there like Mecca. I know.
I think it is the mecca of home improvement at least,
just like they have like a baseball field and they
have like potato sacks, and like they have like all
these little tiny little shops you walk around. I'm like, literally,
Joanna is perfect, like vision is, there's enough, it's flawless.
I have to imagine she has like just an incredible
(05:05):
team behind her, Like she can't possibly do all this right? Right?
Or does she do all of it? And we're just
like inadequate as humans? I think because she also has
like ten children and she looks perfect. I know I
had one, and I'm like, I still can't get it
back together. It's hard. It is so hard. I'm like
started a health turning and it's been two years since
I worked out. I just started like two weeks ago.
Maybe you can encourage me and inspire me to work out,
(05:26):
but because I haven't done any. People like Joanna who's
running an empire, has five children, looks perfect, has a
great marriage. How that much bandwidth? No, my bandwidth is
much smaller. Yeah. I like naps, Like naps, I like
I need some downtime. I feel like those people don't
have downtime. No, she must not. Well, we're impressed. Okay,
so let's get to you, Holly, because you you're talking
(05:48):
like Joanna is doing something crazy, which she is, but
you are amazing. Like I already kind of emotional about
your story and I don't even know how to get
into it. So I'm going to let you start. You've survived,
you literally have gone through hell, and you've turned it
into a sanctuary, which is the name of your company,
and it's about helping women who are trafficked get on
(06:10):
their feet. And you make jewelry, a beautiful jewelry. I'm
sure this is all it. I looked at your website.
It's so beautiful. So tell me your story and tell
me about trafficking. Because something that you mentioned that I
didn't know on your Good Morning, Good Morning American interview
is that a lot of times people are trafficked by
someone they know, which I didn't know that. In fact,
(06:30):
the majority of cases in America are actually a known person,
which a lot of people are surprised to hear that
because I think we think of trafficking as this kidnapping
scenario always and um, you know, and someone has just
taken from their family and their chained to a bed,
somewhere and sold to strangers and you know, and and
it doesn't always look like that. In the vast majority
(06:52):
of cases, actually the trafficker is a known person, either
becomes a boyfriend or it's a family member. And so
I think it's important for people to understand that trafficking
is first of all, it's not an over their problem
that happens here in America, and and that it's and
that it's not, um that it's not a sensationalized sort
of thing like the movie Taken. Always oftentimes it's so
(07:12):
manipulative and coercive that you don't even know what's happening.
And that was the case for me. So I, Um,
I grew up in a good home and a good family,
but there was some sexual abuse in my childhood and
that really imprinted on me and just I think affected
how I saw myself and and my sense of self
worth and value and and so um, when I got
into my early teen years, I really started acting out.
(07:34):
I think from that that place of trauma, acting out, sexually,
acting out with drugs and alcohol, and I like, you
can't tell anybody, right, right, I mean, and I think
I just felt like the secret shame and confusion and um,
I'm sorry, yeah, I mean it's it's so sad, right,
and I mean the statistics on that are horrific, which
I don't even want to think about as a girl mom. Right,
I'm like, I'm like, don't look at my child, like,
(07:55):
don't no one is allowed to go anywhere near my
child because it is. Um. The statistics on that are
horrific really and um and so with the statistics on
child sexual abuse. So yeah, I mean it's just like
that that in and of itself and the damage it does.
And it's always someone close to the kids, yes, because
it's a trusted person that you know, a friend or
(08:17):
a family member or in my case, it was an
after school care and you know, you're as a parent,
you're interested, yes, And so you think about that and
it's like, my daughter goes to a little preschool now,
and like just to think that something like that could
happen when you're sending or trying your parents are trying
to keep you safe, yes, you know, yeah, yeah, And
(08:37):
so those things are really important for us to understand
as parents, to really have like a watchful eye on
behaviors from your child and stuff. Because I know like
my mom will talk about that time and she she
always says, I thought it was so weird that you
wouldn't take your coat off when you came home from there.
You never wanted to take your coat off. And um,
I still love coats today. But why was that just?
I think just because yeah, the coat made me feel safe.
(09:00):
And they just kind of wrote it off, right, they
because they didn't know what was going on. They just said, oh,
how cute she she really loves her coat. Um right.
I mean it's just you think about that stuff. But
I think it's important to really recognize your children and see, Okay,
if they're doing something that's off and you see a
behavior that you're questioning when they're coming back from a
place like that and there's uh and you're and you're
(09:23):
questioning it in your gut as a parent, go with that,
fallok into that, follow through with that, ask questions, talk
to other parents, because it wasn't until many years later
that it came out that it was happening to a
bunch of the kids in this How do community? How
do they do that with all the kids there? Do
they go to a private room? Yeah? So, I I
don't remember all the details because I, um my brain
(09:45):
actually blocked in, yeah, which I'm grateful for. I remember
a little flashes, but my older sister remembers the details,
and um, I know that it was happening in bath
in the bathroom because that's like where my trauma kind
of was always and where I like where I I
was like afraid to go into bathrooms without with the
door closed, like I wouldn't. I would never close the
door in the bathroom and I would freak out if
(10:05):
someone closed the door. And so my parents also saw
stuff like that, and they were like, why does she
freak out so much about being in the bathroom? Why
does why is the door closed such a big deal? Um?
And so yeah, that, uh, those kinds of red flags
in retrospect, they probably should have investigated. But you just
would never think as a parent, you would never think
that anyone you know or trust would hurt a child.
(10:30):
So fast forward to those years where I was, you know,
in my teenage years acting out from that trauma. Um
I UM, I started becoming very promiscuous and I was
the party girl and it was fun for a while,
and I was I was enjoying myself and I thought
I was being young and cool and having a good time,
and it was the nineties. I was raving, it was
(10:52):
you know, and this was like San Francisco in the nineties,
like the heart of the rave scene culture. I was
in it. I was living my best life. Um. But
that kind of quickly spiraled downhill and and I started
having a lot of consequences, and I started getting arrested,
and I started ending up an abusive relationships and abusive situations.
The drugs got harder and harder, to the point that
(11:13):
I was all of a sudden addicted to meth. And
you know, I thought I was just having a good time,
and all of a sudden, the drugs and alcohol had
taken over my life and started making choices for me. Um.
And then at nineteen, I met a man at a
party who was very charming and charismatic, and I think
he saw me from across the room and was like
(11:34):
that one, the drunk one with no self esteem. Um,
I'll take that one, and and he I know, um yeah,
I mean I was targeted for sure. And earlier before
we started recording, we were talking about how traffickers look
for easy targets, right, and they want that path of
least resistance. They don't want to traffic a girl who's
(11:54):
secure in her identity and her sense of self worth
and comes from good parents who she's calling every week. Right,
he found me, and I was perfect because I was
already estranged from my parents at that point, um fully
addicted to drugs and alcohol and acting out sexually and
um leading with my sexuality already, And so it was
very easy for him to take me from that to
(12:17):
two clicks to the right, and and he could suggest
that um that he starts selling me and and I
actually was feeling like that was a step up from
what I was experiencing, just um, you know, giving it
away essentially, And he was like, well, I want to
take care of you, and and all you have to
do is do this in exchange. And this scenario that
I that I walked through, this trafficking scenario that I
(12:39):
walked through, is actually what we seem most commonly in
trafficking scenarios here in America, where it's a point a
person who comes in as a boyfriend and manipulates the situation.
And pretty quickly I learned he had other women, and
that created a sense of competition where I wanted to
be his favorite. I wanted to be the best. Think
you loved him, absolutely, I mean, and I thought you
(13:00):
loved me, you know. And and he was the first
person who made me feel like valued. And even him
selling me, even him suggesting that he sell me, was it.
He made it seem like it was like, you're so valuable,
You're so beautiful, men would pay so much for you.
Who are the types of people that want to buy this?
I mean it's mostly lonely men, I hate to say it,
(13:20):
you know, like men who have like jobs and stuff. Yes, absolutely,
and men who like you think, are like respectable men. Absolutely,
I mean, I um. You know my scenario where I
was being trafficked. I was living in Boston, Massachusetts at
the time. I was in college. UM, I was at
a top musical theater conservatory, and I was being sold
to men in Harvard Square who were professors and um
(13:41):
and who were family men and who were um, you know,
who were uh. You would pass by them on the
street and you definitely would never think they were buying sex.
Do they think they're buying a prostitute or what do
they think they're buying? Yeah, And that's the problem because
I think there's this myth out there that like, oh,
prostitutes are all just like they love their work and
they just they're just dying to have sex with you
(14:03):
and how fun, you know, and just like this fantasy
behind like a prostitution, right and then and then even
for for girls who have been pulled into um prostitution,
it's I mean almost a hundred percent of the time
it is a trafficking situation. UM. I think the statistics
are of of prostitutes, and I put that in air quotes,
(14:23):
are are experiencing exploitation, are being forced into it through
through a trafficker or a pimp, through force, fraud, or coercion,
which leaves another fifteen percent that I guess you could
say maybe are um happy to do it, But you
have to wonder what life circumstances have have made them
want that or or choose that, right, UM, I would say,
(14:45):
in in my from my experience and the women I
work with, a dent of the women working in prostitution
either have a sexual trauma and their their childhood or
a history of abuse and their family. Um, there's always
a reason that someone ends up damage to the point
that they think it's the best life option to sell
(15:06):
their body. And so I think it's important for men
to know, hey, when you're buying sex, like, you're not
buying sex from some willing girl, um, you are buying
sex from someone who is most likely being exploited on
the other end. And I think that's so so important,
it's so important. And the same thing is true pornography.
You know, people watch pornography thinking this is just innocent
(15:27):
and I'm just seeing people act out my fantasies. But
the same statistics are true of the women acting in pornography.
They are almost of the time not there by choice.
They are there because there's someone pulling the strings exploiting them. Oftentimes,
these these videos are being recorded even without their knowledge, um,
which Pornhub is now being like sued dramatically for releasing
(15:48):
so much content that was released without people's permission. So
it's so important for us to to understand as a society,
how us going thinking like innocently. I mean, I don't
know how innocent it is, but that I'll just go bisex,
You're actually creating a massive problem on the back end
with supply and demand, and the demand the supply needing
to meet the demand and the supply having to come
(16:11):
from exploitation. So when you started, when you started it,
when you're in college in Boston, what was it. Did
you enjoy it in the beginning or not? Not not
necessarily like the sex part, But did you like, I
feel like you were, like you said, you wanted to
compete and be the best, And do you feel like
you were like in something that you were kind of
like did you ever? I never did. I mean, I
(16:33):
know there are other people i've I've worked with who
who were okay, who felt comfortable in it. I actually
never felt comfortable in it. Um. I felt really icky
from day one. Um, you know, I think partially because
like I mean, our sexuality is so like precious, and
you know, it's like even even though I was like
giving it away, at least I was like choosing who
I was giving it away to. It was like, oh,
(16:54):
the hot guy from the club or whatever. But this
was like I didn't have a choice, and I felt that.
I felt that really immediately. And yeah, you didn't have
the choice in the situation. Yeah, when you're Yeah, it
was gross. It was just gross, Like I just felt
gross and I felt so disgusting about myself, and I
saw really quickly. I mean I was already not in
a good headspace, but very quickly I just felt awful
(17:15):
and like it just kept getting worse and worse, and
my sense of self worth and dignity just got more
and more degraded, to the point that I was completely suicidal.
And so I just kept getting drunk and high and
then not showing up for the jobs he was lining
up for me. So what happened Then he kicked me out.
So I ended up homeless because he because I stopped
showing up for the jobs he was lining up for me,
(17:37):
he didn't want anything to do with me anymore. He
kicked me out, and um, and so I was. I
was homeless and um and and just surviving however, I could.
Were you living with him before before? I? Yeah? Before
I had been. I mean it was I don't know
if I would say living with him. I was crashing
at his place, um, but but yeah, I had. He
(17:57):
had been letting me stay with him. I had actually
gotten evicted from an apartment even before that, because he'd
encouraged me to stop paying my rent and kind of
set up a scenario where my only option was to
stay with him, which then set up the scenario even
further that I had to do whatever he asked and
depend on him solely exactly and so um. But then
there were times when he would be with another woman
and he would lock me out and I was like
(18:19):
scrambling to try to find anywhere else to sleep. So
even while I was living with him, he created this
sense of instability that at any point I knew if
I didn't do what he wanted, I was out. And
ultimately I was out for good in February of two
thousand one, and UM and ended up um on the
streets and just going home with whoever would take me home.
(18:40):
I would I did what's called survival sex, where I
would go into a bar and just like try to
find someone to take me home with them so that
I had a place to sleep. Occasionally I would meet
someone who would let me stay for a few days
or a little while, and that was like the best
I could hope for. Um. And then I ended up
just completely wrecked and on the floor of a public
(19:01):
bathroom in February of two thousand one, and I was
watching my tears hit the floor, and I just said,
God help me, and I'd never believed in God. I
didn't know many god people, had no experience with God.
But that night I met someone who got me into
a recovery program. And I've been sober since that day
and safe since that day. Life just completely turned around
from that moment. So him kicking you out was a
(19:23):
huge blessing. Is the best thing that can ever happen
to you getting kicked out by your trafficker? Yeah, I
mean for a long time, I was like, Wow, I
am the ultimate failure. Like you think prostitution is the
lowest you can go in society, but I went one
lower and like failed at prostitution. But it ended up
being the biggest blessing that could ever have happened. And
and at that point, to having nowhere to go was
(19:44):
actually a blessing. I you know, my family had kind
of tough loved me because they knew I was an
addict and they knew I was going down a bad path,
and so they had separated themselves from me and cut
me off. And that was the best thing they could
have done too, because I had nowhere to go. I
ended up completely really lost and hopeless, and I was
able to hit bottom at the age of twenty one,
(20:04):
instead of you know, having anyone enabling me and and
letting that addiction and that lifestyle go on. Any That's
a good point. So that is why they say to
tough to do the tough look, yeah, because otherwise you
can just keep skating by, yeah, and then you never
hit bottom, so you never get help. Right. Had I
not been homeless, alone, addicted, lost in and out of jail,
(20:25):
you know, totally defeated, and having failed at the one
backup plan I had, which was prostitution, right, I would
never have gotten to the point where I was on
my knees and willing to cry out for help from
God or recovery community or anyone at all. Right, did
you meet someone in the bathroom? No, it was later
that night. So I actually went to a party that
night and was just trying to get drunk and high
(20:45):
and ended up meeting someone at this party that didn't drink,
and I was like trying to. I would always just
go to go around to men and ask them if
they had anything to drink, and he was like, no,
I don't drink, and I'm like, well, what are you
doing here? I was like, why don't you drink? And
he said, it's a long story. And I was like,
love to hear that long story about why you don't drink.
And he shared his whole story with me, and it
sounded just like mine. He'd been through so much of
(21:07):
the same stuff I had been through, but he had
gone to a recovery program and gotten sober and his
life had started to turn around. And at that point
he was eighteen years old, and he was three years sober,
and he'd gotten sober when he was like fifteen. And
I remember thinking, Man, if I'd gotten sober when I
was fifteen, like, think of all those rapes that never
would have happened, Think of all those arrests that never
would have happened. I would have graduated from high school.
(21:29):
And then the very next thought was, Holly, you are
twenty one years old. If you got sober today, think
of all those future rapes that won't happen. I think
of all those future arrests that won't happen. I think
of the life you could build that this you know,
you might never have to go to jail again. And
in this whole new life just unraveled before my eyes
that I could I could be a whole new person,
and you are. The life you are living today is extraordinary.
(21:54):
It's it's definitely beyond my wildest dreams. I mean we're
just running through your life when you got in here
and it's like, oh my gosh, it's beautiful and what
you've done with your company. So tell me what happened?
You turn it over, You went to recovery and from
that day forward, like you just you stayed in that program?
(22:14):
Were you able to how did you work through it all? Like?
What was the process? It was a long journey. I
mean I spent a lot of years in and out
of counseling. I say, in and out because I would
try it, it wouldn't work, I'd go back again years later,
you know. I mean just like I kind of tried everything,
um and so over the years, it was just this
journey of like getting better and then like hitting bottom
again and you know and emotionally and um, bad relationship
(22:37):
after bad relationship. I mean that was the area of
my life that just took the longest to heal. And
just to be even attracted to a man that wasn't
like an abusive narcissist. Yeah, yeah, I would meet an
abusive narcissist and be like he's so hot, He's my type.
You're the one, yeah, um, and so yeah. It was
just a long, long journey of recovering. And and then
(22:58):
over those years I started to work with other women
and mentor other women and sponsor other women in that
recovery program, and I saw myself and them, and I
saw the challenges I faced, and one of those really
was was rebuilding um, my life and from an employment standpoint,
because I had a criminal record right Um, I had
been a drug dealer and a prostitute, and I'd failed
at both, and so it was like where do I
(23:20):
Where do I go from here? And and I and
I saw that time and time again with women I
was working with, was like the big missing piece here.
And the thing that ultimately ended up helping me rebuild
was when I when I got into a career that
I loved and I was able to find purpose and
meanings and success and and so I started to see
(23:40):
that this missing link in the recovery piece was not
getting trauma care and finding housing. It was it was
finding meaningful and dignified employment that was going to sustain
the rest of my life. And and for them, it
was that was what I saw missing for them too,
And so this dream really got birth to building a
place that could be a safe landing place for women
(24:02):
coming out of trafficking and violence and addiction and incarceration
and being a place that that would rebuild their lives
and their resumes and that sense of self worth and
value and dignity. And early on I had worked for
the Shoe Shine Stand that was this. It was like
it was all people in recovery, and it was like
a place where we all were like trying to get better,
(24:23):
and everyone understood that everyone was in recovery, and we
were all like early in recovery, and we were allowed
to cry at work, and if someone was having a
bad day, you could like go home and take a nap.
But all day long we were shining shoes and these
shoes would come in all dirty and we would get
to make them beautiful. And so all day long I
started getting this message that I'm someone who makes beautiful things.
I'm someone who makes beautiful things. I can take broken
(24:45):
things and make them beautiful, and it was so sweet
and it really started to rebuild my self esteem. And
so with Sanctuary Project and this this dream and this beautiful.
Isn't this special? All day long? You heard that, yes,
only in front of your face. And it's and it's
who I am today. Like if you ask me, like
who I am to my court today, I would say,
(25:05):
I'm someone who makes beautiful things, because it's so it's
so got implanted in me that this is who I am.
I can take something broken and I can make it beautiful.
And so with with the women I get to employ today,
we do the same thing, right, Like, they come in
and they see a pile of chain and a pile
of jump rings, and a pile of pendance and a
pile of ear ring hooks, and and then we get
(25:25):
to train them to make beautiful things. And all day
long they're making beautiful things, and they're packaging beautiful things,
and they're selling beautiful things, and they're building a company
that's full of beautiful things. And and so I watch
them transformed today because they come in, you know, and
they're always like, I'm not really into girly stuff, Like
I'm not, you know, I don't like jewelry, but like
I'm really grateful for a job, you know, I'm happy
(25:46):
to be here, and but I'm probably not going to
ever wear the jewelry, and I'm like, totally, that's fine.
And then they'll be working with us for like a
month and they're like, I guess I like this one necklace.
And then after three months they're like head to toe
Sanctuary Project jewelry. They're wearing dresses, they're like, they're wearing makeup,
and and I see this like identity being re birthed
in them of like I'm someone who makes beautiful things.
(26:07):
I'm a beautiful thing. My friends are beautiful things. Um.
And so it's such a beautiful gift to get to
see that transformation time and again in not just in
my own life, but but now in so many other
women's lives. Dang, Holly, that's a really big deal that
you took your story and your journey and you made
(26:29):
it beautiful things with it. I mean, how did you
just how did you come up with jewelry? How did
you come up with like, I want to do jewelry.
So I had visited an organization in Thailand back in
Tleven called night Light, and they worked with women coming
out of the brothels, coming out of trafficking in Bangkok
in the Pet Pong Red light district, and they trained
them to make jewelry. And I saw these girls like
(26:51):
sitting in a circle together making jewelry and they would
finish a piece and hold it up and the other
girls were like, wow, that's so beautiful. And and I
saw this sweet community they built um And and for me,
one thing that was always frustrating was like I bought
a couple of the pieces, but I never wore them
because they weren't my style. You know. They were kind
of they were like beated and feathered, and like it's
(27:12):
a look, it's a mood, but it's not my mood,
you know, and love that and and I and I
always felt a little bit frustrated with the sort of
compassion jewelry business world because it felt like it was
um It felt like it was missing that fashion piece.
It felt like it was missing that I for what
are the trends, what do women love? What are women
(27:33):
buying and wearing? What are the big brands doing? And
how can we do something that that has that same feeling?
And so I had always kind of dreamed of maybe
maybe going and working with some of these organizations and
helping them to make jewelry that was on trend and
that was something that Western women would want to buy,
and then we could get into a Nordstrom, and that
we could get into target, into target, what's up, you
(27:54):
got your jewey and targeting. But that means such a
testament to write that, like what we've created, it is
something that it's not just something that you're going to
be drawn to because you care about fighting trafficking and
you want to employ survivors. I actually want to wear it.
I want our jewelry to be something that stands on
its own and that you would buy and wear just
because it's cute and just because it's priced rite and
(28:16):
just because it's price so right. Yeah, I mean that's
like that forty dollar necklace price point right where it's
like I can buy a forty dollars exactly and it's
beautiful and it's beautiful. And that's where that's where I
started to realize we we were missing that piece in
the social impact world of creating product that actually had
a market already existing for it. Because if you're buying
(28:37):
a necklace just to support survivors of trafficking, you're going
to make that purchase one time. But if you're buying
a necklace to support survivors of trafficking that you love
and you're wearing all the time. More you're gonna have
conversations with people where they're like, that necklace is so cute?
Where is that from? And then you're talking about us
and the word spreads and so I really I think
saw this this market for a different kind of comp
(29:00):
fashion product that had a trendy piece to it. And
so it's been so fun because I've always been a
girly girl and a fashion girl and I'm just having
a blast like watching trends and getting to create things
based on on what the trends are, but tie them
back to our purpose and our mission. And you know,
if we're doing chain necklaces like what I'm wearing that
are that are sort of a trend that's been happening
(29:20):
for the last year, I'm making it a chain breaker
necklace and we're going to talk about how we're breaking
chains of slavery and and if you know, and if
the coin necklace is a trend, we're going to make
coins that that talk about UM, about the Saint, the
patron Saint of trafficking and of trafficked women, and and
um and find ways to tie it back to our
missions so that people can feel good about shopping those trends,
but also know that they're doing much more than that. Wow,
(29:45):
So how did you start this? I mean, how did
you start a business? Obviously my kitchen? Yeah, I don't
even know how to do it, and I didn't how
did you? Guys? I'm still trying to figure it out.
And now you're running a company that's a target with
a lot of employees, you're saving lives, Like, how do
you do this? I mean? It was really just like
one step at a time in some ways. I mean
I had, well, first of all, the only other business
I've ever built with my drug dealing business when I
(30:06):
was seventeen. So I knew about margins, I knew about
customer service, I knew about supply and demand, um. But
I but I had to learn everything else. So I
I mean, I taught myself how to make jewelry watching
videos on YouTube and um and just like found a
supplier I could buy chains from and dependence from, and
I'm putting together pieces on my kitchen table. And then
I met a girl in the jail who was coming
(30:27):
out and needed a job. And then she's sitting there
with me, making jewelry with me at my kitchen table.
But I had to really learn how to run a
business in the midst of all of this, and um,
but I did it so like one step at a time.
You know. I look at it today and I'm like,
how is this? How did this happen? Because I only
remember waking up each day and just doing the thing
that was in front of me. Build a website. Okay,
(30:49):
I can do that on like Wicks, you know. Um,
you know, Register is a business, Okay, I can do that.
Register is a nonprofit. Okay, I can do that. And
just learning one step at a time what I needed
to do. And a lot of our first two years
were really me throttling growth because I felt like there
was momentum and I felt like there was a market
for it, and people were loving the jewelry and they
were wanting to shop, and I was getting wholesale in
(31:12):
querries and things right away, and I was like, I'm
not ready for this. I need to make sure I
have a really stable business in place before I allow
any growth to happen. And so so much of it
was like learning how to hold back and say no
to even opportunities and doors I would have wanted to
walk through, because I knew I needed to get a
solid structure in place that could scale. And so today
(31:33):
now I'm I. You know, now I look at like
all the work I did in years one and two,
and now we're only in year three. I mean, we're
still we're I mean it's we just had our three
year anniversary in February, so we're still a really young company.
But now I'm seeing just exponential growth because we did
that groundwork and I and I leaned back and I said,
I need to make sure I build a structure that
(31:54):
can sustain this, because ultimately, everything I do, I want
to create a sense of safety and secure prity for
the women we employ. And so a lot of that
is even in our systems. And there are times when
I've had to say, we're not we're not in growth mode.
This quarter. We do a sort of quarterly planning, and
I've had to say to the girls, this this quarter
is about everyone here finding sanctuary. So there's some girls
(32:15):
who need to be in counseling. There's some stuff going
on in my personal life this year. This quarter, We're
not going to grow this quarter, we're staying stable, and
so a lot of a lot of running this business
is actually about taking a pulse on my team and
what they can handle in any given season, and then
and then sort of adjusting our speed accordingly and saying, okay,
what can I handle? What can they handle? All right,
let's go full force. Like last fall we went full
(32:37):
force with the Target release, and right now we've pulled
back a little bit because we know we can and
and um and and that feels safe and um and
there's a lot of there's a lot of changes happening
in people's lives right now. But then fall we're planning
on going full force again. And so it's fun to
actually run a business in a really unique way that
it's not just about it's not just about making money
(32:57):
and right on what it's actually about the whole for
the variants of the people working with the wow and
it's really cleol. So it's like, I'm not just looking
at the numbers, I'm looking at the results, which is
the lives of the women that we're working with. And
if my production manager is trying to get her degree
right now, which she is, and she's amazing, and she's
like in school full time and working full time. I'm like,
(33:19):
that's more important to me than than doing X number
of dollars in sales this quarter. I want her to
get through. I want K which is her first initial,
to get through school, you know. I want her to
get through this semester at school that's been very stressful.
Or my director of operations is looking at a move
and potentially you know, moving out of Sanctuary Project and
going on to her next career move, and so I
(33:41):
want to make space for that, you know, And we
all are processing that with her, and we're taking time
and we're pulling back, and we're getting other people trained
to move into her role. And all of this feels
so special because it's not the way a typical companies are.
Un Right, everything was soul and hard. That's the hope. Wow, Holly,
So if you want to job, you can come work.
I mean, it's beautiful, it's pretty special. It's just amazing
(34:04):
that you are able to carry those values so strongly
through an actual company that's running. Like you are not
willing to sacrifice any of that to make money, which
is incredible. Your purpose is to heal these women and
then make beautiful things and what's cool is we end
up making money at the end of the day. I
think because the internal culture is healthy, and because the
(34:27):
women that are working for us feel valued and feel
safe and I feel safe. We actually are doing really well.
And so even when we're throttling back, like, we're still
seeing growth, and even when we're pulling back and um
and trying not to overwhelm ourselves, we're still doing really well.
It's like nothing gets lost when we're focusing on on
(34:48):
that care for the soul. Wow. How many employees do
you have or how many girls are on your team
right now? It's nine? Wow, And it's such a sweet group.
I I feel like it's a sisterhood and a and
sweet community. And we've been as as large as twelve
and as small as four, and um, this feels like
a really sweet spot. Um. But I also feel ready
for growth in the next probably in the fall or
(35:10):
the winter. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like I feel like
we're ready to scale up and I'm excited to see
what that looks like. How do people find you to
join your team? So Sanctuary project dot com best place
to go, and you can find us on social media too,
So Sanctuary Underscore project and um, yeah, send a d
M or or contact us and we um if if
(35:31):
there's a survivor of trafficking, violence and addiction listening, please
reach out and become a part of our community, even
if it's not as an employee. We want to know you,
and we want to be in a relationship with you,
and we want to point you to resources for healing
and hope and um and we want to walk alongside
you and probably send you send you jewelry and and
help you to feel a part of us, even if
(35:52):
you're in a different city and can't be with us physically.
So what what do you want to tell women who
might be listening, who are in the throes of it?
Like how do you get out? Like how do you
encourage someone to like take those steps? What's the first step?
I think the first step is recognizing that there's a
problem always, you know. I mean this is in the
recovery community. It's like the first step is admitting you
(36:13):
have a problem. You probably already know you have a problem. Um,
you know. For me, I was easily able to identify
that the relationship was violent and that I was struggling
with addiction and maybe I wasn't ready to identify as
a trafficking survivor, but I knew that there was something wrong.
And so if you're listening today and you know there's
something wrong in the relationship you're in, and you know
(36:33):
that there's something manipulative or coercive happening in your life
right now, I just would say, you know they're you're
not alone, there's hope, there's help. UM. The National Human
Trafficking Hotline is a wonderful resource you can call that
is not going to interrupt your life, where you can
just get information about where to go and what to
do if you decide you want to leave. UM. I
(36:56):
am a big proponent of people staying as long as
they need to to hit bottom and UM, but don't
stay one day too long, because you know, we've also
seen girls die in this and so so know that
you are, that you are loved, and that there's a
community of survivors waiting for you on the other side.
And UH, and I hope that you feel empowered to
reach out to me today and to reach out to
(37:17):
my team at Sanctuary Project and UM and find out
what your true value is. That you are made for
so much more than this, and that you're actually made
to make beautiful things. That's amazing. Ah gosh, this is
really powerful stuff, Like you are an angel on this earth. Holly. Oh,
I don't know about that. I mean, I've done some stuff,
(37:41):
but you, but you have just turned your life into
something so beautiful in what you're I just like, it's
just incredible to me how you have taken all of
your pain and all the trauma and you figured out
how to make this beautiful company that's just so power full.
Like I mean, I can't get over it. Honestly, it
(38:03):
feels like a gift. I think, like when you've walked
through so much heartbreak and pain, to see it used
for good is like the only gift you really can
get out of it. Because I can't go back and
have a different life, right, I can't. I can't go
back and unho trauma. I can't go back and make
a different choice and not go home with that guy
that night, you know, um, with my trafficker um. And
(38:24):
I can't go back and undo any of the pain
that happened to me or the pain I caused. But
I can I can see how it gets used today
for for good and and that makes it all. I
don't want to say worth it because it's like is
it ever worth it? Right? But it does make it
all feel like, um, like hope is not lost and
(38:46):
and that there's that there's something I have to offer
from it that can help someone else. That's amazing. Okay,
so tell me how you have to Paris because you
lived in Paris for a while, which is incredible. Yes,
and it's funny. So I actually, um, I thought I
was gonna We talked about how I thought I was
going to go and work for one of these nonprofits
helping them make on trend jewelry. And so I did
(39:06):
a little trip around the world sort of like trying
to decide and visiting all these different organizations that were
doing this work and trying to decide if I would
want to move to one of these places. So I
started in South Africa, and then I went to Ethiopia, Kenya, UM, Uh, Egypt,
UM and then UH and then Thailand, Cambodia, UM and
(39:28):
then and then UM, Middle East, a little bit, Turkey, Greece,
and then down to Australia and New Zealand. And at
the end of this trip, after visiting with all these organizations.
I didn't feel like I knew what I wanted and um,
and so I was like, well, I'll just go to
my favorite city because at this point, like I had
Airbnb my my condo in San Francisco, and I was
(39:49):
like I was on the road, right, like I was
living on the road. It was kind of like the
Amazing Race, except there was never any like money that
I was going to win. But I did have the
money from my Airbnb right in the Golden Prize of Jewel. Yeah,
in the Golden Prize of like maybe I'd find my purpose. Um,
but yes, it was. It was totally an eat, Pray love.
It was definitely that. And it was like I was
in my early thirties and still still single and just
(40:11):
like I don't know what I'm doing with my life,
but I might as well have an adventure, right um
And and I didn't have cameras following me, which was nice,
and no one was chasing me and there was no clock.
So so I, um, at the end of that trip,
really didn't know what I wanted. And I was like,
I'll just go to Paris for the summer, and um,
and I'll just kind of like you know, spend some
time in Paris, being my favorite city, and just let
(40:33):
it all soak in and and just kind of try
to figure out what's next. And while I was there, I, um,
there was a church in my neighborhood and I had
done music stuff with the church. I my degrees in
musical theater and so I'd always been a singer and
I and I'd worked in a church in San Francisco
leading music there and and so I just told that
church like, Hey, I'm in town and I'm a singer,
(40:53):
and I'd love to I'd love to, like, you know,
sing with you guys if if there's an opportunity for that,
and they were like, yes, come be with us, and
um and then um. While I was there, it turned
out that the woman who was leading their music was
actually about to leave and go on maternity leave, and
they were like, we want you to stay and take
over her job. And and so I ended up, just
like with the Sweet Gig, leading the music for this
(41:16):
church for one service on Sundays. We had band practice
on Saturday service on Sunday, and then the rest of
the week I was able to just be in Paris
and and write and I mean it was just this
like dream country. It was a dream. I mean, it
was like living in Paris the single and it was
as dreamy as you imagine it would be. My apartment
had a view of the Eiffel Tower. I was on
the same block as the Eiffel Tower, so like so
(41:38):
like out my window was literally like the Eiffel Tower.
It was just right there enough, like enough to get by. Yeah,
I speak French badly like an immigrant, but yes, it
was there like a language bearer or was that fine?
It was fine, you know. I think what I found
was that most French people want to practice their English,
and I wanted to practice my French. And so most
of my conversations were me speaking bad friend at people
(41:59):
with them speaking bad English back at me. And it
was like it worked, It worked, and it was so romantic.
I mean it was just I fell in love with
This is going to sound cheesy, but I fell in
love with myself in that time, you know, like it
was like I mean, it was like the pray love
and like that was the love, like you really fell
in love with yourself. You It wasn't easy. It was
a me season and I'm so grateful I had it
(42:21):
because I ended up. My husband and I had met
before that in San Francisco, but he never asked me out.
And then he waited till I was like dating someone
else and we lived in different countries, and then he
asked me out. I mean always always, always right. Yes,
Chip Gains would never do that. You would never do
you know You're right. He probably asked her out like
the day he met her. He was you, I love you,
let's get married. Yes, But my husband just stared at
(42:45):
me awkwardly when we were around each other, and then
waited two years and and a whole continent away to
ask me out. Um, but we did start dating and um,
and and had like our whole dating time and got
married in Paris, and um, he actually moved to Paris
for us to be together at day. It was so romantic.
I mean, we had this courtship just like in the
(43:05):
back with the backdrop of of Paris. How fun did
he moved there with you? It was really sweet, It
was really special and um, and just a time that
like I cherish and treasure and um, I'm a great
way to start your relationship totally. I mean it was
a dream. It was a dream, and I think there's
times now when we look back and we hold onto that.
You know, it's like we've always have Paris anyone in
(43:29):
those moments when we're hating each other, and like, at
least we had a dream courtship, you know, exactly, at
least I can remember those times when like the Eiffel
Tower was twinkling and we were eating crepes and he
was holding me, and yeah, it's perfect, it's perfect. It's
pretty perfect. Oh my gosh. And now you have Havanatanna
and she's perfect too, perfect, I mean, little dream trial.
(43:52):
You said her name, and I'm like, are we done recording?
Can I go be with her? I know, I love
playing at the house and yeah, I up to How
has being a mom changed you? The coolest thing about
being a mom for me is like I thought I
had too much trauma to be a mom. I thought
that I wouldn't be able to love um. I thought
that um my relationship with my mom was really strained
(44:13):
and really hard, and I thought I would have that
same tension. So I was afraid. I was afraid to
become a mom. And I cannot even tell you, but
the moment that girl came out, my whole world was hers,
and I have never experienced a love like that, And
I think I UM, I believe so, I really believe
so many lies about myself that I wasn't capable of loving,
(44:37):
of being, of being loving and of loving, of like
really unselfishly totally fully loving with my whole heart. And UM,
I didn't think I was nurturing. I didn't think that
I was UM. I didn't think I could be soft.
I didn't think I thought that it would feel like
a burden when she cried or needed something from me.
But it's just been the sweetest gift. It showed me
(44:58):
who I actually am. Like it showed me that no,
I am loving, I am nurturing and UM and everything
you're supposed to feel as a mom, like like that
sense of purpose and meaning I have. I feel all
those things, you know, And I think it's been the
most healing thing I've ever been through, actually, because I
feel like I UM. It feels like the completion in
(45:19):
a way of of this story that I now get
to UM have this beautiful, perfect relationship. I mean it's
perfect because she's only two, but like, I've never felt
anything negative toward her. I don't even know how to
describe it. But it's like when she's frustrated, I'm just like,
how can I help you? Know? And when she's sad,
I'm like, how can I make you feel better? And
(45:40):
they're just it's just the sweetest thing. And it feels
really God given, like it feels like I mean, it's
like we're it's like we're just made for it. And
and I think I was afraid I was broken and
that I wasn't made for it. Um. But to find
out that I am has been just so sweet and redemptive, yes,
and and and really has like healed my relationship with
(46:00):
my mom in a way too, because that helped it
has I think, just to understand the love of a mother,
because I think I just never I never thought that
I never felt loved. I think or I never understood
it or something. Um. But but now to understand the
love of our time of showing love, especially like even
like the older generation, it wasn't as like nurturing necessarily.
(46:21):
They weren't free to like Machigo show lass or. And
I think that and I think there were probably expectations
and things she had mixed in there that I probably
have let go of, um because I'm just like glad
I'm alive, you know, And I'm glad she's alive, and
I'm like, we're all alive, but this is remaining, you know,
yes where you know when I'm also forty one now,
and like I had her when I was thirty nine,
(46:42):
and like my mom was Like when I think about
how older moms were when they had us, my mom
was like twenty four or something. I'm like three, moly,
Like don't get like, do not give twenty four year
old me a child? She wouldn't mess her up so badly.
That's what I'm talking about. I feel grateful to be
an older mom. I feel like it is a huge
blessing because especially when you just so desperately want to
(47:03):
be a mom, Yeah, and then you finally get that
gift and you're like, I got it. I get to
do it. And the same thing, I had all the
fears like I don't know how to do any of this,
like what's going to happen? But I felt so unbelievably
grateful to be a mom. It's just because you realize
how precious it is and like how amazing it is,
and like it's like miraculous every day feels like a miracle.
(47:24):
I can't believe that that little child is mine, Like
I like, I can't believe she's mine. I know, and
we get to keep them forever ever. I mean, I
guess at one point they'll move away, but like they're
listening them same, I'm gonna get a little port. I'm
be right here, like I'm not going to bother you,
but like you can always come over. And then I
got excited the other day like she's going to have
(47:45):
kids too, and then I can be like all up
in their life and like be like like Grandma all
up and everything everywhere. So I'm never she's never getting
rid of me. I am going to be annoying mom
who's saying we like we're matching outfits all the time
and we're really cheesy. That's really cute. That's so cute.
It's the best. And the other thing is like I
think I've spent my whole life looking for a purpose,
and meaning I wrote a book, I traveled the world.
(48:05):
All yeah, tell me about your book. Well, I mean,
I wrote a book. You know, you can find it
on Amazon, but it's called From Basement to sanc Based
Into Sanctuary and it tells my story. But but but
what I think, Like I spent so much of my
life trying to find meaning, even building Sanctuary Project and
working with other survivors, And what's been so cool about
being a mom is like everything I was searching for
in all of those things that I thought would give
(48:27):
me meaning, I actually found it in just being a mom.
And I was like, I feel you, dude, I should
have just done this earlier. I didn't even need to
do all that stuff. I feel you on this same
were you Like I didn't even need to be a
country star and an amazing race star, and like you
didn't need any of this, right I was. I've been
trying to validate myself my whole life, like I always
like insecurity and I don't really even know why, Like
(48:48):
I didn't have any kind of trauma our society tells
us to write it's like prove your worth. Yeah, I
always just felt like I wasn't good enough and like that,
you know, just struggled all that stuff. And so I've
spent a whole life trying to validate myself. Like here
I am on amis your rays. Here I'm a country singer.
Here I am like validated by people who are cool
and like. But for now, I'm like, I don't even care.
(49:11):
I don't even care because everything that was missing is
like fulfilled in them. It's like, oh my gosh, Like
this is actually what matters is this is it? And
all I want to do is just be sunny all
day day. I mean, I'm I'm sorry to say it,
but like a part of me just wants to like
quit Sanctuary Project and shut it up down and just
be like a stay at home mom. Yes, so if
you're a stay at home mom listening like you have
(49:32):
a good girl, I know, I know, I know. I
feel you so much. I feel so thankful, and I
can't wait for our girls. I know they're already like
I feel it. I mean, they're they're they're little spirits,
just look like they belong together. I can't believe it.
We'll have to like Havannah, how did you come up
with Havannah? Well, we were in Cuba when you got pregnant. No,
(49:53):
not when I got pregnant, but like right after we
got married, and we were trying to get pregnant, and
we were um and we were how we were in
Havannah and I was like I said it, like I
said something like Havannah is beautiful and I and then
I thought like, wow, that's such a beautiful name, and
like I've never known anyone named Havannah. Why does no
one name their daughters Havannah? You hear like every other
(50:14):
city like London and and Savannah and Austin, Austin. Yeah,
I feel like Georgia, like you have like all these
other names that people name their children, but never Havannah.
And then I looked it up and the meaning was
breath of grace, and I thought that was so beautiful,
like just that like the idea that like she would
live her life with this like with this grace on
it and um and just a sweetness on it. And
(50:36):
I loved the idea of like breath and life and
Hava means life and breath and um and anna means
grace or favor. And I just thought that was so
sweet and special and so and we have such a
common last name Hayes, you know, And so I was like, Okay, good,
this will give her like an uncommon name she won't
be one of like Havannah. Hay's a great name. I know.
She sounds like a country star. Right, she sounds like
(50:58):
a star, so she has a total star. She's a
total star. Amazing, Holly, you are amazing. So you already
mentioned where everyone can find you, but tell us again
where we can go find all sanctuary and all of Holly. Yeah,
so find me too. Um. I'm on social media at
Holly Christine Hayes um and uh website is Holly Christine
Hayes dot com. I just launched a podcast called Finding
(51:19):
Sanctuary where we're sharing other people's stories of finding hope
and healing in the midst of a trial. So, um,
find me there too. And and here's some some inspiring
stories like mine from just other other people who have
been through various struggles. So, and you can buy all
Sanctuary jewelry online yep, at Sanctuary project dot com you
(51:40):
can find all the jewelry and um target dot com
if you're a Target girl, that's Target dot com. That's amazing, Holly,
that's amazing. Okay. So I always wrap up. There's a
big plane flying by. We live by. Uh, I guess
the airport in a train track, so we've got lots
of background exciting noises. Um. I always wrap up with
leave your light, which is what do you want people
to know? Which is open ended. Oh my gosh, what
(52:04):
do I want people to know? I think I want
people to know that you are so valuable. You know,
when I think about the things that led to my exploitation,
it was really just wanting to feel like I had value.
And some of the stuff we talked about of like
all those things we do to try to make our
life have meaning. Um, But I think what I've realized
in in my in my life and in this journey
(52:25):
of working with survivors is that we are We are
inherently valuable. Um. You are valuable. If you're here, it's
because you are valuable. There are people that you matter to.
There is a destiny for you. There is a perfect
little place in this world carved out just for you,
and you matter. Wow, Holly, you are amazing. I feel
(52:46):
so honored to like know you and be friends with
you now, and like, God, you're just doing great things.
You're doing amazing things. Thank you. Well. I need all
the friends alongside me doing it because it is not
something I can do alone. So I'm so honored and
scited to meet you and just to be here with you,
and thank you so much for having so got me
to this in person. I know. That's so great. I
(53:07):
know I've been doing in person interviews, you know, and
Zoom is like you would have been like huh. And
then if we wouldn't have had all these connections and
we wouldn't have had my daughter here with me now
playing in your playroom. It's just like the person is
always better, isn't it. It really is, and I'm so
grateful that the world is getting back to that. Thank
you so much for joining Polly Hayes amazing Beacon of Light.
(53:28):
You're incredible. This is awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Hi
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