Getting Real with Naomi Johnson: From Cults to Clarity, Former Lead Singer of Runaway June, is Ready to Speak Her Truth

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
A carry line.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
She's a queen and talking, so she's getting really not
afraid to feel its.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
Episode, so just let it flow. No one can do
we quite like cary line is sound for Caroline.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
I'm here with LIAMI Johnson.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Hello, you look so beautiful, so do you.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
I'm so happy to see you.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
It's happy to see you.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
We have such a we have such a backstory, which
we will get injury. We do have history. Isn't that
fun to have history? I mean, we have like real history,
which I value a lot me too. You kind of
are the reason I'm doing a podcast, which we'll get into,
because when we went are separate ways, that's when I
started podcasting.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
That's true, Yes, and boy, were you meant to do this?

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Yeah, that's why I like and I love how your
philosophy on life is kind of like you're very spiritual
and connected and I am also, And the older I
get and the more I have lived through seasons of
my life, I am so sure that when seasons happen,
they're meant to happen, and when they close, their ment
to close. And if you can truly get an alignment

(01:18):
and trust your intuition, it leads you on the most
beautiful journey that you could never plan. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
Total, I couldn't agree with that more. Yeah, I think
and and like I've learned to not make decisions from fear.
I'm not perfect at it yet, okay, but like recognizing
when when you're making a decision out of fear anxiety
that just sends you down, You're either going to take
a much longer road to get back to where you were,

(01:47):
or it's just gonna like you might never come back.
So I just try to I try to not make
decisions out of fear, which is not always easy.

Speaker 3 (01:56):
How do you know when it's a fear based I
can feel it in my body.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
I start to you know, kind of spiral or I
start to think about a ton of different scenarios.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
Okay, that that.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
Might happen if I don't if I don't like, I
start to think a lot more than if I feel
something other than fear. So if I'm feeling a different thing,
like excitement or something, I don't think as much. Oh
you're not like analyzing how it takes me right out
of my body. I get right into my head and
I completely get ripped out of my feminine energy and

(02:30):
like I'm in masculine like problem solving and thinking and
moving and like I don't that's not a creative space
for me, and I'm usually not making great decisions from
my masculine.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
That's so interesting that you talk about that, because I
have a very strong masculine energy.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, but really very I find you to be very feminine.

Speaker 3 (02:46):
No, I feel like a half the time. Oh when
I look at the mirror, I feel like something when
I have done my spiritual journeys before, and I'm funny, this.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Is like I am a very manly girl.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
I am very very fiercely. I'm very protective over myself.
That's mother, that's but over myself. Yeah, start calling myself
and now it is my daughter. But like I started
so feminine, but I can be so like intense, like
and I'm strong and I'm physical and so I'm not
like a dainty flower.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
No, I'm not like the woman who is like so
beautiful and like so feminine, who's like I am very
much like I'm going to be in the mud, like
pushing this sw.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
I'm the same way.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
Yeah, So I feel very manly because like I can
definitely take care of myself.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
Well, I think that's a misconception about female energy. Like
when you when people think, oh I'm very feminine, they
think of like a flowy skirt and like dancing in
the rain and like all that. But to me, I
think that's a part of feminine energy. It just I
think being feminine energy at its core is just being
inside of your body and like having feelings and intuitions

(04:01):
inside of your body. But I'll tell you I have
never felt more vicious, more protective, stronger, more clear, more
like I would rip someone's head off than once I
had a baby. I think that's like a very feminine thing.
But I think for me, masculine energy is trying to

(04:23):
fix things all the time, trying to problem solve, get
ahead of my husband, kind of worrying a lot, future tripping,
that stuff that men do very well, you know, Like
that's kind of when they're in that masculine energy space.
That's kind of when they're like at optimal working capacity.
I'm not really I need to like feel I'm very creative,

(04:47):
but I feel all that stuff in my body too,
Like I feel I feel instincts to kill.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
Yeah, which is why you're you're song mommy. Yeah, Yeah,
I love the thing you were like talk about having
a loaded good next to your bible, like, don't mess
in they have.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah, no, and that's real. That's not a metaphor for me,
it is a metaphor, but it's also he really do.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I keep it on me at
all times.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
So you have with her?

Speaker 1 (05:12):
Yeah, oh right, guess where it is.

Speaker 3 (05:16):
I'm trying not to be afraid of guns because I
I know, I'm texted and I've shot so many guns
I have gone. Yeah. I literally like grew up around guns,
but I just I get so afraid of their power
because I'm like, cause it's like it's holding all that power,
which is like the point.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
I hope they does some respect. Is good, but I think,
like the only real dangerous gun is one that you
can't use. Well, yeah, so did you grow up my dad?
My dad was a really avid, passionate hunter, and he
hunted for our food. I really didn't have a steak
till I was like, I don't know, fourteen or fifteen,

(05:54):
Like we only ate medicine and stuff that he would
bring home. And so he he loved guns. He had
like a gun collection, but he taught us all how
to shoot really young, and then it was like, stay
away from these guns unless I'm with you. But he
taught us how to use them. So I've I've always
had a comfortability around guns and an understanding of what
they're for. Yeah, since I was little.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
Yeah, yeah, Okay, So you've really started to share your life?
Yeah a lot, because like back in the day a
few years ago, when we were hanging out, like you
weren't ready to share. Yes, what change that made you
want to start sharing your life? Because you have such
an amazing life. I know it's so fun and I
can tell you're proud of it now because I feel
like you had to go on a journey to get

(06:39):
comfortable with sharing it. And now I can see like
your pride because it taught you so much and it
gave you a just a tapestry of skills and understanding
and just knowledge that no one else would ever have gotten. Yeah,
you have such a unique upbringing.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
Thank you. You know. I remember, Gosh, when we first met,
you were like, Naomi is crazy, and I was, yeah,
I had. I had some things about my past, my
life that I didn't have a very strong understanding of.
I just had a lot of pain, a lot of confusion,

(07:18):
a lot of feelings, and a lot of you know,
not so happy memories attached. There are a lot of happy,
funny memories and years that were good, but the painful
ones were really close at that time, and I didn't
really know how to talk about it without you know,
I'm not really a shock value person and that story

(07:39):
has a lot of shock value, and so I wasn't
really in a place where I wanted people to like
lean in and be like, holy can I cuss on?
Holy shit?

Speaker 3 (07:49):
You know?

Speaker 1 (07:50):
And then you know, oh, you grew up around the Amish,
you know, I was kind of like And then also
in the band setting, it really I was in that
for so long. It really wasn't a place to talk
about my life and depth. You know. It was really
like we were on the radio. You have, you know,
ninety second sound bites for radio stuff, and it's really
people want to know who are you touring with and

(08:13):
what project are you working on? Or we kind of
want them to get to know us as a band.
So we're kind of talking about that, and I think
people knew I had a lot of siblings and there's
always a huge story there. Then it's like, well, are
you guys Mormon. Are you a Catholic? You know? And
it's like, no, we're just we're just hippies. We grew
up around the Amish. And then it's all, you know,
it's all over. So I held that a little close

(08:35):
to my chest because I was very focused on the
band then and making sure those stories got told. But man,
a lot happened. First of all, I went on the
Bobby podcast. He asked me to come on his podcast,
and this was early and I knew he wanted to
talk about my story.

Speaker 3 (08:55):
Were you still in Runaway June or are yeah? Hello?

Speaker 1 (08:57):
I was in Rhunaway June then, And gosh, I listened
back to that podcast a few months ago and I
was even like sugarcoating everything like that you talked about it.

Speaker 3 (09:10):
Oh yeah, yeah, because I actually remember that you posted
the video of your band that you lived in the
school a school. That was the first time you ever
talked about that.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
Yeah. And again, you know, Bobby's podcast was huge. I
was kind of nervous. I'm comfortable with him, but I
also timelines, because I've had trauma throughout, timelines have gotten
really kind of monked up, and so I don't know,
I didn't really have. I was very protective over my mother.
Then I was very protective over like the image of

(09:41):
my siblings. My siblings were kind of feeling weird about
me talking about stuff.

Speaker 3 (09:45):
So when you talk about your life, you're talking about
all of y'all. Yeah, and there's tin siblings, including you,
your mom, your dad. Yeah I know, yeah, your dad
had you pass away, yes, yeah, yeah, okay, he did
pass away. So but you have like all of your
family that you're speaking on behalf of and that's like, yeah,
so everyone has to be comfortable.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
Yeah, And I was at a point where a lot
of them weren't. You know, this is like pre pandemic.
Like a lot of my siblings are working office jobs,
you know, and like a couple of them, one of
my sisters, like works for the federal government and another
one is, you know, an accountant, and they just didn't
want Deborah peeking over the you know, their cubicle. You

(10:24):
were amish, you know, like I didn't know, Yeah, yeah,
you were cults, and so I get that. And then,
you know, after the pandemic, some things just changed. I
feel like, you know, my siblings and I were really
open with talking about it and we put a lot

(10:44):
of humor on this stuff. But as they became more comfortable,
I also, you know, I went solo and I was like, guys, like,
I'm I am a public figure of types, like this
is part of who I am. I was born to
tell stories and this is the music that's coming out

(11:04):
of me, and like, you know, I want your blessing,
but I'm telling my story. And that doesn't that that
I shouldn't have to not tell my story because you
guys are interwoven with mine.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
So that's so delicate, you know, but it's so true
because you have to tell the truth. And that's why
I think the music you're making us so great because
it's so real.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
Thank you? Yeah, yeah, So.

Speaker 3 (11:28):
What do they say when you said that?

Speaker 1 (11:29):
So once I became really confident and I decided like,
and we can get into this. But I had some
events happen. One of them was I almost died giving
birth to my daughter. Came really close to losing my life.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
And you're super private. I didn't even know you had
a daughter for a while, so I saw it every
now and then pop up the back of the head
with a heart on it, and I'm like, she's got
a daughter, she's got a kid.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah. Yeah, So I had some things happen that changed
my life forever, and I decided to really tell the
truth about my life and not sugarcoat it and not
be afraid of it being raw and gritty and sometimes painful.

Speaker 3 (12:12):
That's what makes it so amazing.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah, you know what, Caroline, I was really afraid, really afraid.
I had a lot of fear around how I was
going to feel talking about this stuff and delving back
into these stories and like what that meant, and like
the child abuse that we really experienced and you know
that's that's very painful stuff, and then putting it into

(12:37):
music and trying to do that in the right way
and like trusting my collaborators.

Speaker 3 (12:42):
Talk to you about it at their own discretion, like
they can just ask you any retional question about your
life because it's out there.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
And so now it's like public. Yes, so people feel
like they have like.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
You know, yeah, and they do because I gave it,
you know, That's what I how I see music is like,
once you put it out, it's no longer yours. You're
you're giving it away. And so I had to get
to a place in my life where I was ready
for that, and that just so happened to be, you know,
a couple of years ago. So I yeah, so I

(13:11):
almost died giving birth and I had to get her
restraining order on my mom really, and I just started
to write a whole new record.

Speaker 3 (13:21):
Yeah, why you had to get her restraining order?

Speaker 1 (13:25):
I will say this, My mom is has borderline personality
disorder and bipolar disorder and is an alcoholic. Yes, she
had those tendencies. She wasn't drinking alcohol then because they
were my parents are super religious. But yes, when I

(13:47):
look back, it was definitely there. Now, I think, like
with ten kids, you're distracted from your own mental illness
a lot. Yeah, which is probably in part why they
she kept having so many kids. She was avoiding the
problem that she had, and she was a severely abused child.

Speaker 3 (14:04):
She was.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yes, my dad too, and that's how they kind of
found each other. That's also why as freaking cult they
were drawn to it, or they were looking for love
and family, and those types of groups are very at
the front. You know, they'll just kind of become whatever
you need. They'll just morph into that to get you in.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
Did your mom and dad kind of run into each
other to avoid their own traumas. Oh yeah, and then
they were looking for relief and like safety and love together.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
H yeah. And I think they found that in Jesus
at first, you know, they found this in religion. They
found these these these home churches and stuff when they
were young that really saved them. And they were able
to get like parental kind of support from these people,
find peers that loved them, and then they sort of like,

(14:54):
I don't know, my parents were always searching for more
because they wouldn't deal with their trauma.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
Not looking with it. Yeah, uh huh.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
So yeah, so that's how we ended up in these cults.
But I think that's why. And again I was always
afraid to talk about this because for some reason, I
felt like it was like I was telling people that
these were my decisions. These were not my decisions. I
was a child, these were my parents were doing this
crazy stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
Well, and also I think too. I interviewed this author
she's written a bunch of books. Her named Shauna Nyquist,
and she said, for her, she is an advocate that
like you should share from a scar, not an open wound,
and so maybe you just needed your story to become
a scar.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
You know, that is a beautiful way to put it.
That's absolutely, that is absolutely what happened.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
Yeah, because if it's a wide open wound, and every
time you talk about it, it's like throwing salt and
like a dagger right back into that womb. Yes, you
know you don't have the protection you need to like
handle it.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yes, yeah. Yeah. And the older I get, the more
I didn't really have this understanding of like, Okay, my
parents abused children, this leads them to do X y Z.
I didn't have that zoom out. And I don't think
that you really get that until you become a little older.
And I think that understanding something sometimes is like more

(16:14):
powerful than forgiveness. Even I think it can lead to forgiveness.
And sometimes there's times where it's like I just choose
to forgive this and move on without understanding. And sometimes
you're called to that, but man, I really understand. Like
my dad's dad was a severe alcoholic out of World
War Two and beat the crap out of his kids
and his wife, and he grew up in that environment.

(16:36):
And now I know why my dad never touched alcohol.
You know, he didn't talk about that really and he
would say some things about his childhood, sometimes in like
a funny joking way about like how rough and tumble
him and his brothers were, And my mom would always
get this weird energy about it. And I didn't find
out until later that my dad was kind of like sugarcoating,

(16:57):
like him getting the absolute crap beat out of him.
She knew that, and she didn't want him telling us
those stories. But then also again, she came from a
very traumatized, abusive family, So it's it's I have an
understanding and a compassion for them, but I choose to

(17:17):
end that trauma with me.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
Yeah, and how do you do that? How do you
end all that trauma? Because that's a lot of stuff
to dive into and detangle.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
I'm working on it, you know, but I I just
know that my child will never know the things that
I knew. I'll never drag her around while I'm trying
to figure my stuff out, Like I promise to figure
out my own traumas and my own my own tendencies
that come through my bloodline, through my female line, Like

(17:50):
there's a lot of generational curses that came through and
my mom, you know, she I remember growing up in
her telling me that her mother was very abuseiuve and
that she was not going to pass that on. And
you know, she went through a lot, but somewhere she
completely lost that path and it didn't end with her.

(18:13):
But it's gonna end with me, my child. Never know
that it will. It will stop right here.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
But I even wonder if your mom had a chance
to even like get into it like you're talking about,
because like having ten kids, Yeah, like always looking for
a place to belong into, plant roots and always on
the go. Like when do you have a moment, like
I know how hard it is to have one kid?

Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yeah, like yeah, you know, like how does she have
some ways? You know, I do think in some ways
that having the children was a band aid, and she
does she deals with mental illness that I do not have.
You know, I know that I don't have what she has.
I was not abused by my mother or like she was.

(19:02):
But because she wasn't, you know, she had opportunities to
do therapy and they did marriage counseling, and anytime there
was certain problems brought up, she would just get up
and leave, you know, started drinking to cover up pain.
You know, she never dealt with my brother's death in
a healthy way. So there are things where there are

(19:24):
choices made. And I know that mental illness. I don't
have that. So it's really or at least I think
I don't.

Speaker 3 (19:32):
The fact that you're even like aware and working out,
you know, I think you have them, indulgent illness. You
don't really know you have it.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
Unless people around you are saying, yeah, you got this,
especially professionals that you've seen that are saying, hey, yeah,
you really do have some problems. And I think we
should talk about it, and she says, no, we're not gonna.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
I don't want to crack it over.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah. And so I have gotten to a place in
my life where, even if it's super super super super hard,
and it has been a few times, I will work
on my marriage to make that stronger, and I will
work on myself so that my daughter doesn't my daughters
that I can be someone who she can turn to
for advice. I don't have that, and I want to

(20:13):
be that for her. And what does that mean. That
means I need to read self help books. I need
to do the work so that you know, when she's
twenty fifteen, sixty, whatever age, and she knows that she
can come to me for sound advice and I don't
go like, oh my gosh, am I going to give
her the right advice, Like that's what's something I really
want for her because I don't have that.

Speaker 3 (20:31):
Man, So because my mom really does do that. I
felt that same way because I had always struggled with
like self worth, like I just never felt like worthy ever. Yeah,
and just never felt like I just never really felt
worthy of anything great. I struggled that way even when
we were back in the day, when we were pursuing
Runaway June together back I.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
Know, let it out. Yeah, I know, so so crazy.

Speaker 3 (20:55):
I have to say that that was a very pivotal
time for me too, because I I just for everyone listening,
Naomi and I like we were on our own musical
careers and like the universe brought us together. Literally Yeah, yeah,
because I just feel like, can I quickly tell our sorry, yes,
because this is a huge pivotal part of my life.
And when I really started realizing I have to figure

(21:16):
out my worth without anything attached to it, we you
were you, which.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Is also takes a lot of strength because where we
were it was like we were off to the races,
and for you to go whoa wait a second.

Speaker 3 (21:31):
Literally this was one of the most pivotal times in
my life. Was you have truly one of the greatest
voices I've ever heard in my entire world. Like your
voice is so beautiful and it is so real. But
like I mean, you just have like it is just
it is just a true gift from God. And it's
not like put on. It's not like you were like

(21:52):
tried to like make this sound like this is just
the way you speak. Your truth is through your voice
and you can feel that in your music. And I've
just always that way by you. Thank you, And so
you were you kind of got discovered like through you had.
First off, your jobs you had before, like on a
salmon boat. Like you're like working in a salmon boat.
You start gigging on your eight playing guitar to like

(22:13):
get money for your parents because you are living on
a school bus so you can have gas money. I mean,
your life is you will have a movie about your life.
It's phenomenal.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 (22:22):
But you had really gotten going in music. And Benny Brown,
the owner and president of Broken Boat, like loved you,
but he didn't want to sign a solo female somehow.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
Do you remember that in that time what was that,
twenty thirteen or something, labels were like looking at girls
and saying, you're a star, but we're not signing females.

Speaker 3 (22:42):
Yeah, but we're not signing female.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
They would never say that today, like you could get
sued for saying that, but they were literally telling girls,
Like I remember Carly Pearis was like, could not get
a record deal. Yeah, she's such an obvious sign Yeah.
Oh it was insane. Yeahh so, yeah, he wanted to
put like a dixiech He wanted to do the Dixie Chicks. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:01):
He was like, so he loved me and Jin, but
he didn't think we were solo and had a lead
singer voice, and he thought you had the greatest voice ever.
Was totally agree and he was like basically like, if
y'all can become a trio, you have a record deal.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:14):
I'm like, well damn, we're going to become a trio.
And honestly, it was a great experience except for I
feel like that's when I realized I was not meant
to be a singer.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:24):
That was the moment that changed everything for me. Because
I had moved to Nashville ten years ago. Tried to
be a singer, could not learn harmonies, could not play
the freaking mandolin, And here I am trying to play
the mandolin in the van and be a harmony and.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
Be a harmony singer. I'm like, this is not yeah,
is not it? Yeah? And you know, for the person
who who who it is, you go, oh, this is
it and this is going to be hard and I'm
gonna and I feel the impetus, the urge to like
figure this out or you go, whoa, this is so
obviously glaring not my path, which is what you did,

(23:59):
which's not easy to We had already signed our deal.

Speaker 3 (24:02):
We were making the album, were studio. We were making
the album in the studio and I literally had a
full blown panic attack. That was the second panic attack
I've ever had in my life.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:12):
Yeah, we were in there and I was like, I
think we were even singing like Blue Roses or something,
and the harmony is so hard on Blue Roses and
I was just in there. I'd just gotten married my
has and Michael was in a band tour, and I
was like, I am doing this is not what I'm
supposed to be doing. Like I can't. I don't enjoy it.
It's not joyful to me, Like I'm bringing y'all down

(24:35):
because I am doing something I'm not supposed to be doing.
And like you said, if you're supposed to do it,
then you like step up to it. You want it hard?

Speaker 1 (24:44):
But boy do I want it? Yes? Which I've felt
that my whole life.

Speaker 3 (24:47):
Yes, And I was like, this is hard and I can't.
I can't do this. And also it's not fair to
you guys, because like what if I'm trying to fill
this role that is not really my role and someone
else is supposed to do it, But like knowing that
that's the bigger picture, So.

Speaker 1 (24:59):
It takes so much courage to live.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
I was so young and stupid. But anyway, so I
had that panic attack and ended up just kind of
like leaving the band. But I have to say, Naomi,
that was the moment that changed my whole life because
that's when I realized, Okay, what do I really want
to do?

Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (25:16):
And what am I really good at? And I realized
it wasn't actually music, even though I had moved to
Nashville to do it ten years ago. So like you
are a huge You're you and jan are like the
reason why I ultimately came over here and this is
what I love. But I've never have gotten here without that.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Yes. And also podcasting was like just starting to do
its thing. Yeah, and yeah, I think you have a
gift of talking to people like and I love it,
and you had done that before, which is why you
guys were so good at promotion was like talking to people,
getting to know people, feeling authentic. It didn't feel patronizing ever,

(25:53):
Like this is what you're good at and there's a
huge I mean people need this, you know. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
Oh, how did you know it was time for You've
always been you? I mean you're just such your own
shooting star. I mean you really are. You are just
like such. You can play and sing with anyone, but
you are just your own entity. Like it's just that's
just how you're made. How did you know that it
was time to like step away? Because Runaway Junior had

(26:22):
gotten like a number two or one or something.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yeah, we were We got in a top five, our
top five, Yeah, yeah, which is huge, huge, huge, huge,
absolutely massive. We had Yeah, we had had some chart
success and we made some money and we traveled around
the world and tour bites, Oh my gosh. We toured
with Carrie Underwood, tied out Garth Brooks and Willie Nelson

(26:45):
and like like dreams coming true just and you know, gosh,
I was the lead singer of that group for seven years.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
No way, No, you were not seven years.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, start to from when we s it's been that
many years. Yeah. And then I really it was like
there was just a feeling I got on on on
the last tour that we did, where I started writing
these songs in writing rooms, start being ready, yes, And

(27:21):
I had this realization when we were starting to make
a new record that none of these songs that I
was writing, we're ever going to make this record. And
it just wasn't the place for it. It was not
like a heartbreak. I wasn't like, oh no, you know,
but your story is first of all, if you're going
to write your story, yeah, And it wasn't right for

(27:42):
me to force that the band to sing these songs
in their mine when they're my song, they're not the
band stories. And so that it was right then and
in there coupled with that podcast I did with Bobby
where you know, I've said this, but there was a
time where I really kind of wasn't even sure I

(28:03):
had a story worth telling.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
And you have these stories.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
I mean this, and I mean this in a way
of like I have met so many people Caroline with
like outrageous stories and that had like, you know, way
more sometimes like worse stories, but like, you know, crazy
robust stories. I never felt like, WHOA, I'm special, I

(28:27):
have got to tell this, you know. And so it
was really a couple of things like that, like the
Bobby cast and then me starting to be in the
writing rooms and trusting my collaborators and seeing that I
started to have this I had had the songwriting chops
now to write these songs and make them sound right.

(28:47):
That it was a culmination of that where I was like,
you know, I think it's just time for me to
do my own thing. Yeah, I think it's time. Yeah,
And that's a hard thing to do in a band.

Speaker 3 (28:57):
That's like you have a deal yet contract You're like going, yeah,
so we.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
Live together, we share money, we have you know, future
plans and stuff, and that.

Speaker 3 (29:06):
Is very hard to walk away.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah, it's not easy to walk away. It wasn't and
it took me. It honestly took me, like two years,
yeah to do it. And I also I didn't want
to abandon my my bandmates, and so it started off
with like I'm going to do I'm just going to
do a solo project, and that was not warmly welcomed. Yeah,
and so I was like, Okay, that's not something that's

(29:30):
going to be something we do.

Speaker 3 (29:33):
Yeah, And which as I can see the other side,
because you know, if you start doing a solo project,
then it feels like maybe you're yes, you know, one
foot in, one foot out, or what if the solo
takes off and then yeah, it's just like, yeah, I
get it.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
I you were still I was still committed to the
bandits level, and I didn't I wasn't sure I wanted
to fully abandon it, like where I had built so
much and spent so much time. But I was like,
I've got it. I was feeling this inside, this impetus,
this calling, and so I was trying to figure out
what that meant, and what ultimately meant was that I
needed to do my own thing and not and not

(30:04):
force you know, a square pagan a round hole. And
and then I got pregnant and a lot of stuff
started happening with my family, my dad died, my mom,
just my relationship with her.

Speaker 3 (30:18):
Did it really fall apart after your dad died?

Speaker 1 (30:20):
Before that? Rely after I got married? Yeah, okay, yeah,
they got divorced. They've been divorced a long time, but
they were married twenty four years. I'm like, stick it out,
you guys, having been like, you're both you're both crazier
than you know, anything I've ever seen.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
You know, So, were you close with your dad?

Speaker 1 (30:40):
Not really?

Speaker 3 (30:41):
No, my're not super close with your parents.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
No. No, it's very complicated and very difficult with them.
My mother is a you know, like I was saying,
she's she's a unique bird. She's very very very complicated,
very very very traumatized. And as she continued to get older,
you know, those things, they just get darker and more fragmented,

(31:08):
and you don't you don't heal with time, essentially with
what she's got going on. And so right around the
time I got married, I told her that she needed
to really take some steps to improve, Like, I don't
care if it's you go into a Buddhist temple once
a week, Like you cannot just like continue to deteriorate

(31:31):
and then expect us to have like this wholesome relationship, Like,
that's not the relationships I want. Yeah, I don't want that,
And I don't want to avoid your calls and I
don't want to avoid and then pretend like, oh, you know,
I've got this mom, Like, I don't want that. I
want real I want a real relationship with you, and
I will work with you.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
You know.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
I want to be a better daughter, a better wife,
a better friend. Like I want that. And if you
can't even make little steps.

Speaker 3 (31:57):
Then you towards that.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
You can't make her Yeah, no, and had I had
my own family to protect and to foster, and you
know I have to make boundaries for that. You know.
Once I got married, it was like really clear that, like,
I have my own family that I'm starting now, and
it's my choice who's allowed in those relationships. And I
want to continue to get you know, I want to

(32:19):
have healthier, stronger relationships. I want to grow from where
I came from. Yeah, and you know, I have a
husband who he's been sober fifteen years. He works really
hard to like on all of his relationships, and I'm
just really inspired by that. And some of my siblings
are the same way. So it was really it was.
It was that. It was around my wedding when I

(32:40):
told her like, I cannot continue to have this relationship
with you. I want a new one and are you
willing to do that with me? And it was a
resounding no, No, I'm not because nothing's wrong with me.
So I said, Okay, well the door is open, but
I'm not walking through it. And when you just I
had to improve your life, I'm here and that still

(33:02):
stands true to me. I'm not like this bitter closed
door person. I'm always hopeful and kind of waiting for
her to make the steps. But yeah, it was that
and then realizing like I had this whole like female
line on her side that had a lot of dangerous
curses and spiritual flaws that could easily drip out of

(33:26):
me and pass on to my daughter. And I was like,
oh no, no, no, no, no no, how do you
break that? Yeah? I strengthened my relationship with God every
day that you Yes, yes, I do. I'm very much
into prayer and I go to church. I surround myself

(33:48):
with with people that are trying to be spiritually healthy.
I spend a lot of time in nature, which is God. Yeah,
yea yeah, it's so important to me, I mean, Caroline,
and I think that's like one of the biggest flaws
with our with our culture. Yes, people do not are
not connected to nature and agreed.

Speaker 3 (34:07):
I remember I was telling your manager and publicist, like
when you would show up we would practice, you would
come with your jar of food that you would have
like all these natural foods that I feel like you
like picked a lot of them out of the garden
or you'd be walking, Oh that's a way of a
plant and you just eat it like you just like
know all about nature.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
Ran Yes, Yeah, it's actually like health in that space,
not like in the like raw raw gym rat health space.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
Legit know what is healing too?

Speaker 1 (34:34):
Yeah, I know a lot about it and I continue
my education there, I really but I really find a
lot of spiritual growth there. Yeah, because it makes me
feel closer to our creator through the earth and through you.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
Know, gave us these plants right here, yes, for our healing.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
Yeah, and not just to eat sometimes, Like this sounds
probably crazy to some people, but like when you when
you become really connected with nature, you get to know
like the different spirits of different plants, Like just sitting
beside certain plants give you company and they fill your spirit.
Like what, I'm also Cherokee, So this like is very
I wish we.

Speaker 3 (35:11):
Had this very yeah you're saying, and I agree, Like
this is what is missing is the connection to nature.
Is realizing we're all part of the circle of life.
Is realizing we all work together.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, and everything has a life and a spirit and
intelligence that that's like ready and waiting to share with you.
And we're missing out on so much wisdom. But yeah,
so that's that's really where I have found a ton
of growth and security, and my spiritual practice is really
through nature. But I've strengthened my relationship with God and

(35:43):
I found a great church in Park City that I love,
and just surround myself with younger families that are trying
to just be better is huge. It's a small step, but
it's massive. Okay.

Speaker 3 (35:54):
So when you're growing up, your parents, you're you're living
on a school bus. Yeah, kids, a dog, two parents,
and y'all are traveling around nine kids.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
Yeah. Because my oldest brother didn't go and then he
stayed in Virginia he was sixteen. It's a whole nother,
whole nother rabbits rabbits rabbit hole and that your brother
passed away. Yes, yeah, so he didn't go with us.
Him and my dad had a really strained relationship. He's
not my dad's biological son. My dad adopted him when

(36:25):
he was three. But they always they really struggled. And
Christian today would probably be diagnosed with like aspergers or
autism or something like that. But in the nineties and
my parents, again, they were in these super religious communities
and among the Amish, so you know this, but we
grew up around the Amish. We lived among them because

(36:46):
my mom was their midwife in northern Virginia and they
don't go to the hospital to have babies or really
kind of for any reason. Yeah, and so she was
like an herbal healer and she helped She was also
a death duellist, so she helped a lot of people die.
So beautiful, Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
Then she also passed to me and my sisters. Yeah, like, yes,
that I'm actually able to hold, which is really beautiful,
but which really kind of I think about those attributes
that she had when I was younger that I've modeled
my own mothering over. So no, it's not all bad
with her. It's just currently in my adulthood, my relationship

(37:30):
with her has become really difficult, non existent. Yeah. So yeah,
so we were among these Amish, and when a child
has any type of issues, it's usually you know, something
weird and spiritual or you're not spanking them hard enough.
So there's a lot of child abuse in Amish communities.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
Yeah, there's a lot of sexual abuse, not just Amish communities,
but closed off communities in general, cults men and I I,
you know, I'm sure that some going on in you know,
the Mormon Church, like those kind of like DNSE closed
off somewhat communities. There's a lot of child abuse. How
does it happen?

Speaker 3 (38:08):
Like, how does how does it sneak in?

Speaker 1 (38:11):
I just think there's evil everywhere. Yeah, I think there's
evil everywhere. And I guess I can. I can really
only speak for the homage because it's my only real experience.
But they do not interact with the outside world. So
if you if you're having problems with sexual abuse, you
don't call the authorities.

Speaker 3 (38:28):
You handle it within.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
You handle it within, and how they handle it as
they kind of just move that person around to other
communities to do more damage. So and they're also like, well,
you need to repent, you know, and that person will
like repent or be purged from demons and then they'll
just move them along.

Speaker 3 (38:43):
Are you afraid as a kid and these kids like
when your parents, because you said you join a cult
called Zion, Yeah, were you afraid? Like are you scared?
Because like it sounds like your parents had good intentions,
but yeah, maybe didn't know how to like handle.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
All of your protective instincts.

Speaker 3 (38:59):
Yeah, tech like you aren't really protected. It feels like, yes,
you know, I think it's a good question.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
I didn't feel afraid. I was I felt very happy
as a child. That's good. My dad. I think my
dad was a big guy. He was like six' two
and kind of, stocky AND i think men were just
a little intimidated by him. Anyway so that kept a
lot of that stuff at, bay even though he, had you,
know seven beautiful little, girls.

Speaker 3 (39:25):
Because all your sisters are stunning you and your sisters are,
gorgeous thank.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
You, YEAH i mean even little boys like you have
all these. Kids but my dad was just a little
bit of an intimidating. Figure SO i think just that
innately would help kind of keep things at, bay but you,
know unfortunately it didn't one hundred. Percent and what happened
with me WHEN i was five years old AND i

(39:50):
was sexually assaulted by someone in The amish, community AND
i had this relationship with my parents WHERE i immediate told,
them like immediately told them what, happened and they talked
with me about it and my. Dad you, KNOW i
WISH i would have asked my dad, like what did you?

(40:11):
Think because it was a very close family friend of
ours usually. Is we ended up leaving the community for good, then,
though because the same person did that to my sister
and my other. Sister but he told her that he
would hurt her if she told. ANYONE i don't remember
him telling me. That maybe he, did AND i was
just like, whatever BUT i, uh, YEAH i don't remember being.

(40:37):
Afraid BUT i remember this the cult that we went.
INTO i remember going this is. Weird, YEAH i do feel.
IT i was old, ENOUGH i, was, YEAH i was
three years older Than. Sonny.

Speaker 3 (40:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
Yeah AND i think when you get when you get
hurt like that, little your intuition gets raised really. High
So I'VE i HAVE i have a really really crazy
discernment for people yea and, yeah AND i remember being
eight and feeling like that that community was weird and
that there were really weird people in.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
There not to harp on this BECAUSE i don't want
to like make you relive s, up but it's, like
when that, happens does how does that change you as a,
Kid because that's very that's that's such a.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
Violation, YES i think there's a spiritual aspect to. It
AND i think when you're unprotected like that and you're
hurt by an, adult you get these these instincts that
kick in to protect yourself from it, again and so
you're you're you just get really, heightened your sensitivities. HEIGHTENED
i know mine, did AND i mean to this, day
AND i really think it comes from that exact, thing

(41:51):
but also being in dangerous situations where you, KNOW i
didn't feel super protected OR i didn't feel like my
parents were super alert AND i had to be. Alert
and then you have all these younger siblings That i'm
alert for them as, well AND i MEAN i, can, oh,
yeah very, Young, YEAH i can spot a dirt, bag,

(42:13):
yeah a million miles.

Speaker 3 (42:16):
Immediately it's more just like a, feeling, Right, yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
It's a, feeling but it's. Weird i've talked about it
with therapists. BEFORE i notice little micro eye, movements different
ways that someone starts to breathe if they're. LYING i
can REALLY I and of Course i'm Sure i've been wrong.
Before i've been wrong about people. Before BUT i am

(42:41):
so Like i'm like a cat in a, Room LIKE
i am LIKE i can see.

Speaker 3 (42:45):
Everything do you analyze every room you go? INTO i
feel LIKE i.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
Do, Yeah, YEAH i. DO i think, it you, know
especially like in a in professional, settings Like i'm in,
There i'm kind of LIKE i have this like like
a feeline kind of a tote of animal that comes
out Or i'm very very sensitive to you, know danger

(43:09):
or Even, Yeah i'm a lot more sensitive in rooms with,
people but it does drain my. BATTERY i can only
kind of do it for a couple. Hours and, Like
i'm over, this so over.

Speaker 3 (43:21):
This you have so Many you're just so, wise, THOUGH
i just want to briefly like go through some of
the jobs you've had as your, timeline just so people. Know,
yeah so you're born into a, Family, yeah one to ten.
Kids you travel in a school, bus you live in
a school. Bus, no heating or or no. Air y'all
travel all over the, place.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
No, food no.

Speaker 3 (43:41):
Food you're like no, money and you join some, cults
have a lot of, experiences some. Trauma then you leave
and you're out of money, again so you start playing.
Guitar you learn guitar from the kid at the. Cult
then you start playing, guitar like at gas stations for
money so you can provide for your family to drive

(44:02):
and to drive your your the school. Bus you're home
around did y'all ever know where you were? Going?

Speaker 1 (44:09):
YEAH i think there was a. IF i. REMEMBER i
was talking to my sister about this a couple of days,
ago because you, Know i'm so, Little Like i'm looking
at this picture Of sonny and she's five and she's so.
SWEET i was only three years older than, Her Like
i'm a little, child AND i forget how young that
is UNTIL i see someone that. Little but, yeah SO

(44:29):
i don't really remember a lot of that stuff. MYSELF
i have to ask my siblings. Sometimes but she told
me my sister was fifteen in the, bus like started
her period in the, bus like had SUCH i COULDNNOT.

Speaker 3 (44:40):
I imagine what is it like living on the.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
BUS i don't, know you should interview. Her she's. Great
but what was it like for?

Speaker 3 (44:45):
You?

Speaker 1 (44:46):
Like what is you? Know it was really for a
while because we were such wild, kids it felt really.
Free we were outside all the. Time we had no
authority figures telling us what to. Do we were not in.
School we really only needed to listen to our, parents
and they let us be buck. WILD i mean we
were gone all day exploring in the, woods, barefoot.

Speaker 3 (45:08):
Like NO, tv no, Technology like.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
If we got, hungry we would we would eat some
plants that we, knew or we'd crack. Nuts and we
literally we had no technology at. All we had never
been in, school so there was no one like looking
for us when we. Disappeared how are?

Speaker 3 (45:22):
You are you getting registered for school or y'all just non?

Speaker 1 (45:25):
Existent, No i'm like what they call an unschooled. PERSON
i have like barely a fifth grade. Education but you're
so smart and, you, yeah how did you learn all?
This i'm an excellent. Reader i'm an excellent.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
Reader you, Reader so it kind of just goes to
show you really don't need all the stuff you learn at.
School it's kind of a.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
Nice it's. TRUE i put a high value on. EDUCATION
i really love to, learn and and SO i do
learn BECAUSE i love to. Learn AND i think a
lot of people That i've met that desire to learn
get stamped out of them somehow in public. School So
i'm grateful in that aspect that never. DID. I i

(46:03):
still have a burning desire to. Learn BUT i was
taught how to. READ i have some, dyslexia SO i
learned how to read a little later than my. Siblings
but ONCE i learned how to, READ i was reading
at a college reading level at like. Fourteen AND i
did learn, that, like if you can read really, well
you can learn pretty much. Anything. Yeah then YouTube comes. On,

(46:23):
yeah AND, i, DUDE i have fixed so much stuff from.
YouTube i. HAVE i learn everything from, YouTube LIKE i
take full advantage of. It but my mom is very.
Intelligent my dad's really smart, too SO I I they're
all my siblings are smart and super. Capable you're all, yeah, like,
yeah flourishing in your own.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
Ways we. Are.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Yeah it could have really gone, Different that's What i'm.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
Saying it could have gone another, road but it.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
Didn't, yeah it really could. Have, YES I, Yeah i'm
so proud of how my siblings have turned. Out how
did that come.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
From where did that drive come?

Speaker 1 (46:56):
From my? Parents early, on they surrounded themselves with some really, beautiful,
smart successful, people and then they started to drift away
as these people started to kind of tell my mom
and my, dad, hey why don't you guys slow down having?
Kids this was around like AFTER i was, born why
don't you guys slow, down get some get some health,

(47:17):
insurance maybe buy a, house you, know and then continue your.
Family BUT i think it's probably smart if you guys
just like pump the branks a little bit and start
getting your lives in. Order you're pretty. Young and that was,
like my mom is not someone that you tell what
to do at, all even if it's good advice she.
Has if she has something in her, head she's gonna do.

(47:37):
It like it doesn't matter who gets, hurt who gets run,
over what she has to, do she will do. It
and so it was literally they left this whole community
of people that they, had but those people stayed in
touch with us kids kind of our whole, lives and
so we had these EXAMPLES i think to look towards

(47:58):
our people that we kind of wanted to make, proud
AND i really attribute that a little. BIT i think what.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
Were you and your siblings like together growing? UP i
remember one time y'all were, like did y'all have like
a pet lama or?

Speaker 1 (48:11):
Something we got so many, PANELS i, know but, like
what were? You you know THE emu? STORY I i love.
IT i love all of. Them oh my, God, Caroline,
yes that's. Right, yeah we had three. EMUs this story
on the bus with, you. Dude, no this was after
we got out of the, bus but we had our

(48:31):
dog with. Us my one sister was born on the. Bus,
yeah that was. Wild did you help give? BIRTH i
watched her be? Born? Yeah, YEAH i watched like five
of my siblings be, born including one with a sea.
SECTION i saw her get. Born who did the sea?
Section this was a backwoods now it's not were you

(48:52):
a hospital sea? Section you're In, Okay i'm, like you're
doing it on the. Bus who's doing? Section? YEAH i
mean after all these, stories that WOULD i would believe?

Speaker 3 (49:01):
That?

Speaker 1 (49:03):
Yeah, yeah, crazy lots of crazy. Stuff but we had
the EMUs were after The we're after the. Best that's
a hilarious. Story But i'll tell another.

Speaker 3 (49:13):
Time that's the thing with, You you have so many stories
which they could.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
Get, yeah it's like it's not all, dark but you
know a lot of. IT i had to go to
these dark places AND i had to like relive these
to get my, SCAR i, think like to cover up
the wound that was. OPEN i had to like go
back through it in order to write these. Songs and your.

Speaker 3 (49:35):
Song, okay so you have the two songs that you
just put. Out, yeah they wit making sure have. Bricks,
yeah bricks make bricks make houses And mommy And. Jesus,
yeah and they're so deeply.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
Personal, yeah SUPER i, mean and they're not even scratching
the surface on some of the other ONES i have
on the, record but, yeah bricks make houses like. THAT
i decided to put that one out first because it's to,
me that was the best place to start to come
to tell people like HOW i started my musical. JOURNEY i,
mean like where DO i? Start, like you, know because

(50:07):
my musical journey started in the, bus like WHEN i
started playing my guitar for gas money And i'm, Eight
AND i decided to use the single cover as was
a real picture of us like all sitting outside the
bus and were stranded In. Texas, dude do you remember
when we were In? Waco you said you had got
stranded In, waco and you were, like wait a, minute we.

Speaker 3 (50:30):
Have all sorts of groups. Here, yeah, yeah and you
had like spent some time with Some waco, groups, right
we know we were just passed.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
Through we were parked in some state park for like two,
months a long time In, waco AND i just remember
my dad being extremely, depressed like he would. Sleep my
dad had like crippling depression issues and he would sleep
all day and like couldn't, work like couldn't move like

(50:59):
in like like disabled with. Depression AND i don't my
mom was like they were not doing. Well their marriage
completely fell apart when we were in the. Bus But
waco is a particular.

Speaker 3 (51:11):
TIME i think wake is an energy. FIELD i think
there's something.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
Else, YEAH i couldn't agree with you.

Speaker 3 (51:15):
MORE i always FEEL i couldn't agree.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
More AND i don't. KNOW i don't remember if it
was bad or, good BUT i think it brings people
there for some, reason like it has. All. Yeah so, yeah,
okay so this picture we're, in do you know Where
South Padre island? IS i, don't, yeah BUT i just
remember we were there and we were stranded there and
like we were like living like going to food banks

(51:39):
and stuff like, that and that picture is taken there
and SO i remember that's a picture THAT i kind
of held close to my chest up until. Recently, yes
it's just very much like here it, is but it's the.
Truth LIKE i learned how to play guitar and a,
cult you KNOW, I and that's where my musical journey.
Started SO i decided to like put that song out

(52:00):
because you, know we lived in that bus and that
was my, home but the home That i've always, Felt
like you, asked you, know what was it like with
you and your? Siblings like we've always been very, close
and you, know this this journey that we were all
put on, together it really bonded us in a. Way you.
Know some of it's trauma. Bonding some of it is

(52:21):
just like we're just bonded together with this story and
this past and the same, parents and but it was
it was. AMAZING i MEAN i LOVED i love. Them
we had so much. Fun we did such wild. Stuff
it was us against the, World like we didn't go
to school and like no, one no one left with,
us and we were totally tons of. Friends, yeah and

(52:43):
other kids were like really drawn to. Us we made
friends very easily once we were in one spot long.
Enough but, yeah it was like people make homes as
the bricks make. Houses people make homes as the. Hook AND,
i you, KNOW i had a lot of love in my.
Family my parents loved, us AND i think they did
the best that they could with what they. Had, Yeah

(53:04):
and did they make mistakes and bad, choices, Yes but
that doesn't mean they didn't do the best that they. Could,
Yeah so yeah it, then you, KNOW i would go
over people's houses that had like these, big beautiful houses
and it all looked the, same and their parents hated
each other or they didn't like you, know they they
didn't have anything like WHAT i. Had AND i lived
in a dilapidated farmhouse after we got out of the,

(53:27):
bus with you, know sharing beds with my, siblings no.
Acne we never had any heating and air. Ever you,
know a whole a literal hole in our one bathroom.
Floor you could like see the ground through. It and
but you know, what LIKE i don't, KNOW i think
that being able to piling. Too, yeah and this is

(53:47):
not me sugarcoating. It LIKE i look back And i'm,
LIKE i had so much, Love LIKE i knew if
someone came into the house that my dad would protect,
me or IF i had a bad, DREAM i could
crawl in bed with him and my, mom and like
so many kids that couldn't do that are they were
afraid of their. Dad and SO i THINK i think
being able to like write that song and put it

(54:08):
out and start telling my story it felt like the,
right the right, way and it felt perfect has been. Healing, Yes,
yes Because i've also been able to talk to people
and get to, know Like i've had fans for so
long that like are telling me stuff that they've never
told me. Before UNTIL i opened this door that was, Like,

(54:30):
okay the conversation is no longer, superficial like we're getting.
Real and you, know, fans, friends people in the industry
have known for ten plus years that, like, well all
of a, sudden just strict drop a bomb after they've
listened to one of these. Songs i'm, LIKE i did
not know that about your. Mother you've never talked about
your mom. Before and so that feels really good because
much like, YOU i kind of wanted superficial like small

(54:52):
talk is like very draining for. ME i kind of
want to jump in, GIRL i want to beat a dead.
HORSE i want to dive to the. Bottom you KNOW
i do.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
TOO i want to know the root cause core, GENUINELY
i want to know why you're. MOTIVATED i want to
know because the Thing i've realized now doing all these
podcasts is everybody has. Trauma every single person has. TRAUMA
i think it's the human condition without. TRAUMA i used
to think people didn't have. Trauma, YEAH i used to
think LIKE i used to think that.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Too.

Speaker 3 (55:18):
YEAH i used to think there were people.

Speaker 1 (55:20):
Out there that, like we're just completely fine.

Speaker 3 (55:22):
And it's all, different and some people have like major,
trauma like te CAPITAL t, trauma LITTLE t, trauma but
it's like everybody has. Trauma everybody's nervous system is jacked
up as a kid, somehow you. Know and it's like
you create all these beliefs that you have to like
figure out actually the. Truth AND i think that that
has been very healing to me is to realize to have,
stories like talk to people like you and just realize

(55:43):
we're all on this. Journey nobody knows what the f they're, doing,
literally AND i feel like you have to get to
the point where you come to your own alignment your
own guidance. System you realize what you actually are drawn,
to what feels, right, ye what your gifts. Are and
that's just a. Journey, yeah it literally is a personal.

Speaker 1 (56:01):
Journey, yes, yeah you.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
Know, yes how has marriage changed your? Life BECAUSE i
know you love being. MARRIED i love being. Married you're
married to a rock. Star, YEAH i. Know he's a total,
Dreamboat Martin. Johnson boys like.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
GIRLS i, mean, yeah he's a total rock.

Speaker 3 (56:15):
Star yeah he.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
Is you, know being married to him has been such
a healing thing, because LIKE i, REMEMBER i was single
for a little while BEFORE i met, him AND i
Told god THAT i the next PERSON i, dated, SERIOUSLY
i wanted them to have a great relationship with their.
Parents And i'd met so many guys that just had,

(56:37):
like you, know faulty. Relationships that's, FINE i, did you,
KNOW i, Do BUT i really wanted someone that had healthy.
Relationships and, he, gosh he he's just a dream. Boat
he has such a great relationship with his, dad his.
Mom his mom died when he was, sixteen but they
had a great. Marriage they never fought in front of.
Him you, know they didn't have money growing, up but

(56:58):
they did everything they could to provide a good life for,
him and you, know he's had his own. Battles he you,
know he almost died when he was twenty. Three he
got really, famous really, soon really. Fast terrible drug. Addict
couldn't handle the fame and it almost killed him a few.
Times and like the team that was around him was

(57:19):
making so much money that they just would like he
like overdosed in a bathroom over over international waters and
they kind of just drug him out and sat him.
Up they're, like, oh this happens to. Him he's, fine
this happens all the. Time and like he almost died
like that a couple, times and then he got. Sober
he's been sober fifteen.

Speaker 3 (57:37):
Years so, amazing and he is.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
Just like such an example for so many other people
that he. Helps and you, know we talk about things
as a. Family there's, problems we talk them, through we.
Communicate you, know we have a beautiful. DAUGHTER i JUST
i love being. Married when you're with the right, person
it's so.

Speaker 3 (57:57):
Good how did you know it was the right? PERSON
a couple of different.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
Things our second, date we went grocery shopping because he
was gonna cook for. Me this was so. Cute food
is very emotional to, me LIKE i have a very
emotional connection with, food like, FOREVER i even IF i
was on the road a, TON i needed my refrigerator
to be full of food BECAUSE i had so many
years with an empty fridge and that always kept me
feeling like very uncertain and, anxious and a full refrigerator

(58:27):
made me feel. Secure so food is very. Emotional so
our second, date we're like shopping and he's like running
around the. Store he's very high. Energy like WHEN i
first met, HIM i was, like there's no way this
guy is not doing. Cocaine like there's no, way or
he's just done so much it's just permanently in a.
System like he's got like these wild blue. Eyes he's

(58:51):
like covered in, tattoos his hair is like sticking, up
and he's just ready to. Go he's just a wild. Guy.
YEAH i cannot imagine him on, drugs because You idia
has so. MUCH i JUST i cannot imagine. Him so
he's like running around this grocery, store like piling this
cart full of groceries for just us. Too AND i
just had this moment WHERE i saw him down the

(59:14):
aisle AND i Heard god speak to me and he,
said that's your. HUSBAND i just knew, it and THEN
i quickly put it. OUT i was, like oh, God
i'm gonna get. Hurt i'm gonna get. Hurt i'm catching
feelings like if this isn't, IT i want something like,
this like this is very close and this guy's meant
to come into my life to like push me further
to the. One BUT i don't. Know there was something

(59:36):
about his like wild. Nature he made me laugh so,
much AND i just felt completely relaxed with. Him he's
always two steps ahead of, me like taking care of
stuff like always and Super. Yeah it just makes me
feel really LIKE i have a lot of certainty in
my life because of. Him so and that's. Amazing he's extremely,

(59:57):
thoughtful like oh my, gosh so.

Speaker 3 (59:58):
Too people don't expect.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
That, yeah, yeah, no you know it's, funny like and
of COURSE i think my husband is so, handsome but
like he's he's got these striking. Features WHEN i saw,
HIM i was, like there's no way this guy's, nice
you know WHAT i? Mean and then, oh there's one other.
THING i remember we were. TALKING i was pretty rude
to him at first BECAUSE i was like, WHATEVER i

(01:00:21):
was like not dating artists at all, yeah and he
slid into MY dms AND i was, like oh, god you,
know AND i didn't know who he. WAS i thought
he was a songwriter and he was at the, time
but he HE i asked, him SO i found out
that he had written a bunch of these pop hits
AND i was kind of texting, him like kind of
bored on an, airplane and he was like texting. Me

(01:00:43):
SO i was, like all, Right i'll flirt with this
guy for a. While AND i asked. Him i'm, like
what's something you've done in your life that you're most proud?
Of and he answered With i've been sober nine. Years
i'm really proud of, That i've become a the son
THAT i really. Want i'm proud of my relationship with
my dad and my. Friends and he's, Like i'm really

(01:01:05):
most proud of having like healthy relationships with PEOPLE i
went to middle school. WITH i did not expect this. Answer,
no that is so. Deep he worked on he doesn't. Work,
yeah he did not mention his career at, all like
almost like thought he was being baited or. Something AND i, Went,

(01:01:26):
okay oh, god, okay this guy's got some. Depth like
HE i misjudged him so, hard and that was kind
of WHEN i was.

Speaker 3 (01:01:33):
Like, Okay i'm here for.

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
This, yeah but it was really that grocery store When
GOD i heard. IT i heard a, voice, go that's your,
Husband scott.

Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
Speak to you a lot like. That, yeah he. Does,
yeah like you hear.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
Voices sometimes it's you, know here his.

Speaker 3 (01:01:48):
Voice.

Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
YEAH i mean SOMETIMES i hear it like, Definitive Like
i'll get an image in my head of the future
that's so, definitive that's almost like a day ja, thing
And i'm, like that's going to, happen and it. Does
and then sometimes you, know his voice is very. Mysterious
it comes through different people will speak to, you Or
i'll Feel i'll feel something or but, Yeah i've heard

(01:02:10):
the voice like that, before And i'm a human, being
So i'm, like, ah that's not what, happened you. Know
but sometimes it's, like, no, no that's exactly what it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Is you have a very strong relationship With.

Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
GOD i JUST i feel like sick IF i. MINE
i Wish god spoke to me like wor could your.
Voice i've never heard a voice other than, uh, well
like WHEN i left the band and.

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
Then WHEN i Left.

Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
Michael the last. Time my two biggest Leavings i've ever
Done michae WHEN i broke up AND i FELT i
pushed it just as far AS i could, go and
then my body shut me. Down you know What i'm.
Saying it's LIKE i used to do that WHEN i was.
YOUNGER i would push things so far Because i'd be, like,
no this is WHAT i want to, do this is
going to, happen and then finally my body would shut me.
Down and that's the only two panic Backs i've ever

(01:03:03):
had WHERE i literally couldn't catch my.

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
Breath, yeah can't.

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
Breathe and so NOW i can feel. IT i just feel.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
IT i WISH i could imagine going to your therapist
and being LIKE i need meds instead of being, LIKE,
whoa that is. Something so that's WHAT i, Mean like
we're all faced with. Choices you can all of a
sudden like go pick up twenty airport bottles and slurp
those back and get through your, anxiety or you don't
and go what is?

Speaker 3 (01:03:26):
This what is? This why AM i feeling this? Way?
Exactly AND i feel Like i've always had to confront,
mine LIKE i can't block it, out AND i think
no one really. Can't, ultimately it's going to get. You,
Yeah and SO i can feel, it like When i'm
out of, line WHEN i, LIKE i feel Like i've
healed my nervous. System i've really worked on it for
the past like five. Years, yeah like just. Amazing, well

(01:03:47):
being a mom made me want to do. That, Yes
AND i feel like you're the. Same like WHEN i
became a, MOM i was, Like i'm healing this broken
version of me That i've been operating on in different
forms for so many. Years Like i'm not going to
not love myself WHEN i look in the, mirror And
i'm not gonna like look in the mirror and feel. Unworthy,
yeah because IF i don't feel, worthy then how on
earth CAN i make her Feel how.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
CAN i make her feel? Worthy, Yeah i've Even i've
even gotten to the point where Like i'm really aware
of like how much SKINCARE i keep on my counter
and like what AM i trying to cover? Up what
kind of insecurity is AM i trying to. MASK i
don't want my daughter walking in there and seeing a
pile of skincare and makeup and all this, Stuff LIKE

(01:04:28):
i want her to see me growing and aging truly
gracefully and. Happily, like how AM i going to tell
her that she's beautiful and that she can age this
way and that she doesn't need, to, like you, know
dampen herself down or make a new face on herself
If i'm doing, That SO i keep it and she
is watching. Me oh, man right now she watches EVERYTHING

(01:04:48):
i freaking. Do it is wild the things that you.
Think she's kind of, distracted and she is listening out everything.
Everything so it's Like i'm starting with that stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
Now but do you feel reborn as a?

Speaker 1 (01:05:01):
Mom? Yeah, Yeah OH i feel completely. Different. Different and
that was so. Scary like WHEN i SO i had
her SO i had an allergic reaction to the Potosin
SO i had a an at home water birth planned

(01:05:21):
AND i started off that. WAY i went into. LABOR
i was in labor for three days at. Home it
was it was really. BEAUTIFUL i went in and out
of labor and like we were dancing and, cooking AND
i was in and out of the tub and like
she just wasn't. Progressing AND i was forty two weeks
and three, days SO i had gone over this. Time,

(01:05:42):
yeah and my midwife was like there's just something we're not,
seeing like she's in a weird. POSITION i can't get
her to. Move we need to transfer because legally she
can't deliver me at home. Anymore and SO i. TRANSFERRED
i ended up getting on potocin trying to kick start
my labor back IN i had an allergic. Reaction long story,
SHORT i ended up getting a cesarean section AND i hemorrhaged,

(01:06:06):
horribly like almost lost my. Uterus they couldn't stop the
bleeding and they had to do like three different types
of stitches on my uterus to try to get the
bleeding to. Stop it just. WOULDN'T i was just gushing
blood and Like, Martin martin literally said that he could
hear my blood dripping on the, floor like it was

(01:06:26):
just like A he said he looked up into the
light and he could see a reflection of the doctor
and she was just like covered in blood and the
baby had been. Born, Yeah AND i started to go
gray AND i felt. This they put my baby on
the chest AND i felt the steep breath, Like, OKAY

(01:06:49):
i can. GO i felt, it, well you could. Leave
i'm telling, you It's i'm gonna cry thinking about it
because it's so profound when you're when you're faced with.

Speaker 3 (01:07:00):
Life the hot breath of.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
Death.

Speaker 3 (01:07:02):
Time, yeah you've just given.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
BIRTH i had just given. BIRTH i had this like
my my purpose is. FULFILLED i had just given birth to.
HER i was in a DIFFERENT i was in a different.
HEADSPACE i wasn't really in my my mammalian like human.
HEADSPACE i was, like, YEAH i did my, job AND
i felt like the warm tingleis that people talk about
when they come really close to LIKE i just felt

(01:07:26):
completely like this, peaceful like warm feeling LIKE i was.

Speaker 3 (01:07:32):
Ready, yeah what brought you?

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
Back i'll tell you what brought me. Back it's so.
WEIRD i heard the voice of my. Anesthesiologists he, said that's.
Pooling what are we gonna? Do that's pooling like?

Speaker 3 (01:07:46):
Pooling what is pooling like?

Speaker 1 (01:07:48):
POOLING i was just like they couldn't stop my, bleeding
and SO i heard, that AND i was, like what's?
Pooling BECAUSE i couldn't feel. Anything and they ripped my
baby off of the chest of my, chest and THEN
i felt this this shock in my, shoulder just like
this this like. Wamn it felt like it felt like
someone stuck something that thick into my. Shoulder but my

(01:08:10):
anesthesiologist hit me with an adrenaline shot to stop my,
bleeding and it was like adrenaline and potosin, mix but
it was this huge needle and it felt like it
went to the bone and it like jerked me out
of that like thing THAT i was, feeling AND i was, like,
wow how.

Speaker 3 (01:08:25):
Do you not know that you're allergic? To?

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Wait what was? It, potocin which is like the synthetic
oxytocin that it does apparently it will stop, bleeding which is.
Weird how do you know you're allergic to? POTOSIN i,
Mean i'd never had it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:40):
Before they don't test.

Speaker 1 (01:08:41):
Beforehand, no my sister's really allergic to it. Too she,
hemorrhaged AND i didn't know that my older sister when
she gave, birth she was really allergic to. It so,
yeah there's no way to. Know but my midwife was,
LIKE i wasn't reacting to the, potosin and they kept
putting higher and higher and higher, levels and ONCE i
got to like this kind of dangerous high level and
uterus wasn't, responding she, went she's allergic to this and

(01:09:03):
we need to cut her off. Immediately she was like
she's gonna hemorrhage and we have to go into the O.
R so it, was, uh it, was it was. Crazy but,
yeah SO i came really close to. Dying AND i
felt like when she was, BORN i had this identity
crisis after AND i had like all this postpartum depression

(01:09:26):
AND i was like the PERSON i was. Before they
don't warn you about, THIS i think. Enough no one
talked me through. This that you, die you go through a, death,
yes and you are mourning the death of this, person
and your new self is about to be, born but
you don't know, when and you don't know that. Person

(01:09:48):
you trust, her and she's fragile and you don't know
what she looks.

Speaker 3 (01:09:51):
Like she doesn't know how to, do so she's.

Speaker 1 (01:09:53):
Gonna Wear she doesn't freaking know. Anything she doesn't know
how to do, anything and you think this old self
does and you're.

Speaker 3 (01:09:58):
Kind of like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no relying all
stuff because, she like you, said she don't know anything
about the. News she don't know anything, either, no and
she definitely can't coach you do this new self.

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
And, exactly so excuse, Me you're like sitting in this
very vulnerable kind of like gray area of, like oh
my freaking, god and there's no one that can really
kind of walk you through. That you'll go through. It
it's your own.

Speaker 3 (01:10:22):
WALK i. Know you can lean on people and have
friends and support and look to, guides but, like ultimately it's.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
You, YEAH i. Know and SO i, YEAH i had
this like full blown like identity crisis WHERE i was,
like who AM i as a? Mother who AM i As?
Naomi who AM i as you, know a sexual? Woman
to my, husband who AM? I who AM? I? YEAH
i don't freaking. KNOW i, like what AM i gonna?

(01:10:48):
Do AND i have all these. SIBLINGS i was a.
NANNY i felt LIKE i was, like you, know the most,
equipped you're? Ready? Yeah oh, Yeah OH i got my
my ego blown up and it needed to Be, yeah
but it was all so Then caro that LIKE i
had this realization that, like HAD i, died which women, do,

(01:11:08):
YEP a lot of women have died bringing children into the,
world and a lot of children have. Died like it's
it is something that it's a big. Deal it's a big.
Deal you can die doing. It AND i was, like you,
know what if IF i had gone and my daughter
went to iTunes Or spotify or whatever to listen to my.

(01:11:30):
Music she would, hear you, know a couple of ditties
and some Runaway june. Stuff but like she would never know.
Me she would never freaking know me at, all as a,
mother as a, daughter as a as a, child as a,
Wife like she would never know WHO i. Was by
listening to those you, know those songs Where i'm trying
to sell beer at a, festival.

Speaker 3 (01:11:51):
And it just became super important to.

Speaker 1 (01:11:53):
You it came so, clear like she's blonde haired and blue,
eyed like she doesn't know she's. Cherokey she could never
look in the mirror and SAY i Have cherokee. BLOOD i,
can LIKE i can look in the mirror and be
like that.

Speaker 3 (01:12:04):
Makes, sense something's.

Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
Up, Yeah but she. Wouldn't and so it became like
it nothing became more important than me, going, okay it
is time for me to tell these.

Speaker 3 (01:12:15):
Stories to walk in your absolute truth and everything you.

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
Do, yeah and that that near death, experience, man it
made Me i'm there's really Nothing i'm afraid of. Anymore that's.
INCREDIBLE i, Mean i'm SURE i will be faced with
it being but you, know yeah, HUGE i mean.

Speaker 3 (01:12:34):
To take the fear of dying, away especially when you're
holding your child for the first, time Because.

Speaker 1 (01:12:39):
I'm even more afraid of dying now THAT i have a,
KID i, know but you're, right there was a there
was A. Yeah it was a gift to come that
close BECAUSE i had such a metamorphois like life change
THAT i. KNEW i had a knowing THAT i didn't
really have. BEFORE i was kind of, like, uh you, Know,
Okay i've got. This i've got. This you know this

(01:13:00):
history of me as a singer WHERE i love to.
Perform you've seen me. PERFORM i love. IT i love
being on. Stage i'm born to do. THAT i the
voice that you. Have thank, you it's thank.

Speaker 3 (01:13:11):
You the most beautiful voice Of i've thank you so.

Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
Much, YEAH i love. It but it WAS i was
really focused on LIKE i was. IN i was in you,
know fairs and festival, mode touring. Mode i'm, Like i'm
a stage. DWELLER i like to be up. Here i'm
going to sell beer AND t shirts and do high
kicks and, like you, know yeah show you, know show
my belly button and, Yeah and that was WHO i,
was that, Person, yeah. Genuinely but ONCE i had this

(01:13:38):
experience AND i started writing this southern. Music it was, like,
oh BUT i have a lot of other people THAT
i want to show this other side of me, Too
AND i think that that gives me a lot more
longevity as, well because this is WHO i am at my, Core,
like this is WHO i. Am that's like the performing
nail me and LIKE i loved. That but that was the.
Maiden you, Know i've, Trained i've transformed into the, mother

(01:14:02):
AND i think our society doesn't really glorify the mother
like they do the. Maiden, this you, know this sexual
being who kind of is very you, know naive and.
Whatever there's like all this sex around, her you, know but,
man the woman is the mother is something a completely new.

Speaker 3 (01:14:20):
Creature it is it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
IS i love. IT i do.

Speaker 3 (01:14:23):
TOO i do. Too now we man your. JOURNEY i
LITERALLY i could talk to you for. Hours, NOW i could.

Speaker 1 (01:14:31):
Talk to you For let's do.

Speaker 3 (01:14:32):
It, Actually i'm so happy to catch up with. You
i'm so happy you put out new. Music so you
put out two? Songs, yeah, yeah where can everyone find? Them?

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
Everywhere were you stream? Music?

Speaker 3 (01:14:42):
Jesus, yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:14:43):
Yep and uh And Bricks Make? Houses is that the?

Speaker 3 (01:14:45):
Single or are they? Both they both Are.

Speaker 1 (01:14:47):
Yeah, yeah, Yeah Mommy jesus is a song about LIKE
i don't want to go on a tangent, here but
LIKE i was telling a friend this the other. DAY
I i often like go out to a supermarket or somewhere,
else you, know in, public AND i see these moms
and they're always like a little distracted or, like you,

(01:15:09):
know they've got their, kids they're chasing their. Kids you
can tell they, have you, know something to. Accomplish they're
reading their, lists or they just look super vulnerable and.
Feminine AND i observe them all the. Time and but
what's interesting is, like just underneath that vulnerable like lovely
woman is a fucking. Killer is the most, vicious dangerous

(01:15:34):
creature on the. Planet, Yeah AND i find that to
be so. Fascinating And i'm that. Now And i've always
had like a maternal protective instinct over my, siblings but
it's way different now my. Senses like that, woman if
you try to approach, her she's got eyes in the
back of her head and her back and. Everything she
can if someone even thinks about her, kids she can feel.

(01:15:56):
It it's like that is so fascinating to. Me and
so that's What mommy And jesus is about, like you,
know we kind of were perceived a certain way in
the world and maybe we are a little bit. That you,
Know i'm vulnerable and feminine and and you KNOW i
like to be seen that way as. Well BUT i
will cut someone's head. Off, yeah like, Legit, yeah if

(01:16:18):
they try to hurt my.

Speaker 3 (01:16:18):
Kid he doesn't.

Speaker 1 (01:16:22):
Hesitate i'm a hippie wanted that's.

Speaker 3 (01:16:25):
Amazing but you're so. Right it. Is it is a
fierceness like you like none. Other it's like you will
kill for your.

Speaker 1 (01:16:33):
Child oh my. GOD i write to someone literally LIKE
i will, kill steel, destroyed like, yeah AND i feel.
It and it's like but at the same, Time i'm
trying to teach her to be a good person that does,
good you, Know and and it's it's a very it's
a very, interesting, complicated exciting journey to be. On so,

(01:16:56):
YEAH i love being a. Mother i've never felt more
feminine and sexual and enlightened in my, life LIKE i
was kind of afraid, Of, like, OH i felt like
kind of that stuff would go away WHEN i became a,
mom but it. Doesn't, Fine oh, yeah, yeah that's.

Speaker 3 (01:17:11):
Amazing, Yeah i'm so happy for. You i'm so happy
for your. Journey your life is so beautiful and just
what a tapestry that you have really turned.

Speaker 1 (01:17:21):
Into this a beautiful thing to. Say it's like a beautiful.
History yeah it.

Speaker 3 (01:17:25):
Is it's just so pretty how it all comes, together
and like you can see how it's made you into
who you, are and, yeah like the wisdom that you
have is.

Speaker 1 (01:17:34):
Deep, yeah thank, You thank you so much for saying.

Speaker 3 (01:17:38):
That It's, yeah what can everyone be looking forward to from?
You where can they keep up with?

Speaker 1 (01:17:43):
You i'm putting out a full length record which is
going to be so. Fun there's like seventeen songs on.
It so this is the story of your. Life, yeah
this is an autobiographical. Album is it going to start
at the? Beginning it's going to start at the. Beginning
there's a song That i'm likely going to open the
record with Called, bloodline and it talks about it's it's

(01:18:03):
actually in My cherokee, expression Which i've never done before
in my, music and like we we. KNEW i always
KNEW i Was cherokee growing. Up my dad is like Half,
cherokee and it was like always fun as a kid
to like know we were we were, natives but it
became really important to, me like much many other things,
did to really LIKE i don't, know express, it and

(01:18:27):
LIKE i, WANNA i want to incorporate it into my,
Music LIKE i really want to showcase that part of.
Me it's so important to me. Now SO i opened
the record with it and it's got like some native
chanting and drums and. Stuff it's really really, cool and
So i'm PLANNING i will probably be done with this
record like mid, summer so it'll be coming OUT i don't,

(01:18:50):
know early autumn. Sometime we're going to keep it like. That, yeah,
yeah that's What I'm i'm really exciting to, it And
i'm co producing. It SO i have to like be
In utah to like be in the, saddle which is very.
Fun do you.

Speaker 3 (01:19:03):
Feel nervous that you're putting your whole life? Out they're.

Speaker 1 (01:19:04):
Excited both both more excited THOUGH i feel super opposed
to do. This, yeah so it's less, scary and the
MORE i talk to, people the less scary, becomes And
i'm just more excited to talk about.

Speaker 3 (01:19:19):
It do you Love, okay this would be my last
couple of questions and we'll wrap. Up do you love
living In, utah off the, grid out Of. NASHVILLE i
know you're part time, here but is it nice to
be out of the? Grind?

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
Yes, YES i really really needed. THAT i needed to go.
Somewhere So i'm producing this record With Josh, kelly Who's
Charles kelly's, brother and he's a.

Speaker 3 (01:19:40):
Lady he's.

Speaker 1 (01:19:40):
Dude he is such a genius.

Speaker 3 (01:19:42):
And he lives In. Utah he lives In is that
why you are?

Speaker 1 (01:19:44):
There, well we know it's not why we're, there BUT
i happened to Meet josh and he lives in the
next town. Over it was very, Serendipitous.

Speaker 3 (01:19:52):
Okay also confirmation that like you're doing.

Speaker 1 (01:19:55):
Oh my god crazy and so, yeah it's it living In.
UTAH i needed, That LIKE i needed to get away
From nashville and like work with someone who wasn't like
backed up with twenty five TikTok artists that could, like you,
know he's so, unjaded he's such a child like in
the creative room and he's just like throwing AND i needed,

(01:20:15):
to LIKE i needed these songs to dare to, suck
AND i needed to write a few bad songs in
order to really like make this because It's it's not
been an easy project to put. Together AND i didn't
want people like breathing down my neck or like feeling
LIKE i just wanted someone just wanted to write a.
Hit you. KNOW i needed to. Unhits, YEAH i needed

(01:20:39):
to write the story the right, version and like we're
in the shadow of these beautiful mountains AND i get to,
Like i'm making the record in the, stable so there's
like all these animals and this beautiful stream that runs through.
IT i just really needed to like make this record
and be closer to nature and the creator in order
to be more creative with just one collaborator and.

Speaker 3 (01:20:59):
It's just you and and wrote all of.

Speaker 1 (01:21:00):
Them we. Wrote No i've written songs with other. People
there's a lot of two ways on. There this is
the first Project i've ever written anything With. Martin we
wrote two songs on this. One how is do y'all write?
Together or is this you?

Speaker 3 (01:21:12):
DO i don't make together work and pleasure because two
as living together that could be tricking.

Speaker 1 (01:21:18):
Much less two lead, singers like that's working that way to?
Go we thank. You we really don't mix, it, okay
and unless it benefits our, marriage and it rarely benefits our,
marriage and so we keep. IT i think that's really
our best little rule is like we do not do
anything unless it benefits our, marriage and working together really
doesn't benefit our marriage in any. Way, yeah it benefits our,

(01:21:40):
careers but our careers aren't first our. Marriages so what
happened with these two songs is they just kind of.
Started we just kind of started to accidentally write them
together while we were. Driving they're just they had not
pumped in, yeah and that Was, god and we just
we just did it and they both made the. Records
so there's a lot of me and someone, else but
it's pretty sparse and it's really, really really. Wonderful it

(01:22:02):
feels really. Good that's.

Speaker 3 (01:22:03):
Amazing thank, you, Congratulations thank. You i'm gonna send you
some STUFF i want to hear.

Speaker 1 (01:22:07):
It you like.

Speaker 3 (01:22:08):
It, OH i don't know all of. It, OKAY i
seriously think you are truly one of the most gifted
singers That i've ever, met because it's just so. Real thank,
You it's just so. Real. OKAY i always wrap up
with leave Your, light and it's just a super open ended.
Question what do you want people to? Know what some
inspiration you want to DROP.

Speaker 1 (01:22:23):
I want people to return to, nature even if that
is walking outside of your apartment in the, morning take
your shoes off and just find a little patch of
grass and put your feet on the. Earth, LIKE i
think there is so much healing when you connect with,
nature because nature is the creator whatever that is to,
you you. KNOW i think that that is like a

(01:22:47):
remedy to heal a sick culture is to get back to.
Nature there's parks, everywhere you, know looking out your window
and just watching a little squirrel like for five, seconds
like that is a connect. Action AND i think you
remember yourself and you just become a better person when you're.
Connected when when you just connect with nature once a.

(01:23:09):
Day so that's my little. PIECE i love.

Speaker 3 (01:23:12):
That thank you so much for joining. Me where can
everyone find? You you're On, instagram Na.

Speaker 1 (01:23:17):
Johnson, Yeah I'm Naomi johnson On, insta TikTok all that. Stuff,
yeah follow me if you.

Speaker 3 (01:23:22):
Dare, OKAY i know we've been. Talking oh my, gosh
this has been almost an hour and a. Half this
is thank you for staying with. ME i have you
for like five more minutes and you answer a few
questions for a both this. Episode, okay it's Called we're
gonna do a quick bonus episode called Tell Me More Naomi.
Johnson it'll be On. Thursday thank you so much For
jo's amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:23:41):
Me this is so. Fun

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