Leigh Nash and Matt Slocum of Sixpence None the Richer join Caroline Hobby for this episode of Get Real. Leigh and Matt share about being ‘two kids from New Braunfels, Texas’ that went on to find massive success with iconic hits like “Kiss Me” and “There She Goes.” Leigh, lead singer of the group, grew up wanting to be the next (fellow Texan) Tanya Tucker. Leigh and Matt described not being ‘cool’ enough to break into the Austin music scene, but they were accepted in the Dallas scene. Matt would get out of college classes and drive himself and Leigh, who was still in high school, up to Dallas to perform and that’s how they got their start. The two detail their love / hate relationship with “Kiss Me” which was a massive hit early in their career, prompted by tv/movie placements like “She’s All That” and “Dawson’s Creek.” They discuss getting a massive break with David Letterman having them on his show to perform and then pulling them in for an unplanned interview. Leigh and Matt share about the pressures of fame and success and going through a season of burn out and more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Ada, added carl N.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
She's a queen and talking song.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
She's getting on a three to finger this episode, so
just let it flow. No one can do we quiet
Calne is sounding Carol all right.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I am so excited to have Lee and Matt from
sixpence none the richer on the podcast. I mean, you guys,
thank you. It's really a thrill and an honor to
have you guys here.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I'm sure y'all get that all the time. I was
kind of talking to you briefly about this. Y'all are
one of those bands that, Yes, kiss Me came out
twenty five years ago, and we're doing a big celebration
about it, a new re release of the album plus
a new song on There the Tide, which is so exciting.
But even though kiss Me came out twenty five years ago,
(01:06):
it's one of those songs that just it hit so
hard when it came out and it's like lived on,
like it never got old. I feel like it stayed
strong this past all these past years, Like do y'all
feel that has it just been the song that what
a great what a great song just to have like
as a gift, like you know, it's like it's like,
(01:27):
oh my god, that's your that's who you guys are musically,
that's who y'all came out with. The world found you,
loved you, and like has never let it go right.
Speaker 5 (01:36):
Yeah, the world has been like a dog with a
bone with that song. But there's, uh, there's certainly no
reason to complain about it. I think we both realized,
even more recently just what a gift it is, and that,
you know, a song like that can follow you around
and keep you from being able to it's a really
long shadow. Yeah, I can look at it that way,
(01:59):
but you can also look at it as well. It's
helped me to have a solo career, and it's helped
our name has stayed around and has been somewhat evergreen
with the song, and that's a huge gift. So I'm
just thankful really for the realization, the co realization from
all of us.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
There's two more of us not here.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Obviously they're all still together. Yeah, like, no, the band
never fell apart or anything.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Oh, there was some of that time.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I mean, my husband's in a band and they've been
in a band since they were ten and now they're thirty.
Five and like to stay a band. It's a marriage.
It's a true marriage. The fact that you have been
a band now since you were thirteen. Okay, so the
story's really cool. You are from New Bronfos, Texas. I'm
from Texas also love Texas. And Matt, you were writing
(02:50):
songs singing in high school and are writing songs and
you need a singer and you Lee are like this
great song word and he asked you to sing on
the song and that's how started. When you're thirteen years old.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
Well, yeah, I might have been fourteen when you when
you threw that tape at me, Like literally, no I didn't,
he didn't throw it, but it was I think, you know,
it was just we were on our ways. That's the
way I remember it. But he handed me the tape.
But I was probably fourteen.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a long time ago. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
How did how did y'all know each other? From school? Church? Church?
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (03:25):
From what I remember, I was going to the Baptist
church and Matt you were going.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
To what was it, Yeah, the Episcopal church right across
the street.
Speaker 5 (03:33):
And they didn't do cool stuff, they didn't stuff whatever.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
So we had more youth group events.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
So he came over to the Baptist church and we
were going on a trip or something and that's yeah,
so I kind of got to know him.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
But I was at that real awkward, terrible age.
Speaker 5 (03:52):
I was terrified of everyone, so they're all like very awkward, terrible.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
But I had started singing in church and at school,
and I I knew he played guitar, and obviously then
he showed me that song.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
And what was the song? Realthing just kind of cracked open.
It was called trust in the Lord.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Well you had you had been singing around New Brothels too,
just singing country songs, and you had a really cool outfit.
Speaker 5 (04:15):
You always have came a cool thank you my big
old britches today.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Looking good.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
So she I think she knew early what she wanted
to do, and it was I mean, it was very
visible to me. It was I felt lucky that she
kind of wanted to even engage.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
It's really sweet.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
I wasn't going to get out of the shadow of
who was it that singer from Dallas, Kelly Willis?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Is that her name? Kelly Willis?
Speaker 4 (04:44):
Mary married to Bruce Oh.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Bruce Robison.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
Oh yea yeah, yeah, yeah, we're Kelly Willis again.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
But she was the big thing in Texas that yeah, yeah,
they're still.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Kind of a big duo or did they divorce.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
And then they's somehow to much to the chicks. I think, like, yeah,
there was some producing that.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Yeah, Lloyd Main's Nowly's daddy.
Speaker 5 (05:10):
And I just wasn't I wasn't bold enough or connected
in my family. My mom was a teacher. My dad
was kind of this, uh, I don't even know how
to describe it. Well, he was awesome, but he was
like a banker turned inventor and kind of followed that
passion for this invention.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
That he had inventor what did he invent? That's really
I'll keep it really well.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
You could you could say he was ahead of his time.
Speaker 5 (05:37):
And it was absolutely like it was this muscle stimulator
that was to the purpose was to cure a diabetic neuropathy.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Cool.
Speaker 5 (05:47):
And he was the business manager for the guy that
had was trying to get it off the ground, and
his name was Alan Blackthorne, and my dad was the
kind of keeping the books for him, and then Alan
asked my to start cooking the books and my dad
said no. And Alan went on to become a terrible killer.
So everyone can google that later. But that was part
(06:09):
of my childhood.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Terrible killer.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
Yeah, yeah, I'll leave it at that. This is too
nice of a place to talk about that are so weird,
I know, But my dad, so back to him, he
kept he.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Carried the torch, but actually did it correctly.
Speaker 5 (06:23):
And he just spent the rest of his life in
libraries and running clinical trials in Mexico and doing so
many interesting things and just had just piles and piles.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Of papers, so he wanted everywhere.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
He really did. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
Wow, he was really interesting now, just very very eclectic,
very free spirit. And so anyway, I guess my point
is I didn't really have the backing.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
I guess I don't know what I would I had
to do. I was too shy to become like Leanne
Rhymes or something.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
She kind of came out pretty around that time time.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
All the Yeah, the artists coming out, it was a
big that was a big moment for music. There's a
one of great artists coming out. Then.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
I wanted to be the next Tanya Tucker. And you
want to the country Matt oh desperately because you were
listening to Patsy Klein desperately country. Okay, desperately, it was
not desperately country.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Unfortunately I was late to the party. Was a shame
to say as a text, and but we eventually discovered
it all.
Speaker 5 (07:25):
Yeah, but I think I think it was a miracle
that he came along. And I mean, how did two
kids from New bron fules achieve you know what you know?
And we didn't achieve it. I think God did through us.
I still think that way, sure, But I guess I
just thank god I didn't go that route only because
(07:48):
I just don't. It wouldn't have had the effect. My
voice is for something else.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
And I feel like sometimes bands are just meant to be,
especially when you get together super young. I just know
this from my husband's experience too, because I mean, he's
a great singer. He could probably definitely do something on
his own, for sure if he wants to. But something
about when a band really forms, especially at that young
age where you're discovering everything together. You're discovering music together,
(08:14):
you're discovering your voice together, you're discovering what you like,
and then you come together as kids and you do
it together. There's a magic there that just doesn't happen
out of outside of adolescence. I don't personally think that's interesting.
And if you can hang in there as a band
like y'all have for all these years, it's just like
it's so rare.
Speaker 5 (08:33):
Yeah, it is, it is, and we really I guess
we started in ninety three and then I graduated in
ninety four, and I'm talking a lot about myself.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
I'm sorry, Matts.
Speaker 5 (08:46):
Matt was living a really cool life also, but I'm
just trying to get so.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
At ninety four, I graduated.
Speaker 5 (08:56):
And we left, like within a week of me graduating,
were cool with you going on the road.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
I think they were relieved, not because I was a
bad kid.
Speaker 5 (09:04):
I think it was just more like, what is she
going to do if she doesn't go do this?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Because you have an eccentric personality priority you needed to
express yourself. With the fact that you could lock it
into music is.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
A good That's why I categorized this whole thing as
a as a god breathed thing for I don't have
a question in my mind about it, So very thankful
for that.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
But from ninety three to two, well yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Well, looking back, looking back, it was we didn't think
anything of it. Back then. But when I went to
University Texas at Austin, so my freshman year lawns yeah,
and we had we had finished.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Wait yeah, wait no this right yeah sorry yeah yeah
not I love you, but I love.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
You, but we she had come back for your junior
year with it with a finished album. I think. So
she's at high school, she's like the only girl that's,
you know, recorded a record that's been released. And so
we couldn't get into the Austin scene. We weren't cool
enough for Austin at that point. They weren't having it.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
But because y'all were like Christian rock pop all the things,
you couldn't be all those things back then. You had
to be more defined, right.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
It was very delineated black and white. Yeah, And but
Dallas like really accepted us, like that whole deep LM
scene and club Dotta Trees all that. So we were
having to drive up there for all the gigs that
we got. So her parents were letting me they would
drive her up to Austin. I'd get out of class,
(10:41):
we'd drive up to Dallas, play a show, and then
high tail it back and she'd be in school the
next morning. I could sleep in because I was in college.
But for you know, she's always been a hard worker.
But it was right from the beginning, you know.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
I think I just knew that it was something bigger
than myself. You did, yeah, you know that because of
the way.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
That I felt singing to crowds, like when I first
singing his words, like when when I was sorry pointed
at you. That's rude. But I think we're passed. But
trust me, I won't.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Those nails are phenomenal anyway, your fingers, but they look amazing.
Speaker 5 (11:26):
I know, I can't do anything. I'm surprised I could
drive here today. But yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Know for beauty, but yeah, singing words on stage.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
Connect that, the connection between audience and myself kind of selfishly,
if I'm gonna make it all about me, just became
I mean, that's still what drives me. There's nothing there's
nothing like it, and it's yeah, it's selfish, but it's
also there's a gratification of knowing like you've I don't know,
(11:59):
you've made a conne with another human being, and it's everything.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
It's just everything.
Speaker 5 (12:04):
Human connection and kindness and love, and yeah, I'm an
addict of it. I can't get enough, so as long
as somebody wants to show up and like whatever, And
it's not just one sided. I love talking to people
afterwards after shows as well. But yeah, it's just kind
of the whole thing for me is about hugging people,
(12:28):
loving people.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
I really really love people. I don't think it's selfish
when God has given you a gift and you use it.
I actually think it's what we're supposed to do. You know,
if everyone in the world could figure out their gift
that they were given and were able to use it,
don't you feel like the world would be such a
(12:49):
happier place because all these people are doing all these
things they don't want to do or clocking in. They're
spending their days in these jobs where they don't feel
fulfilled at all. But like you, guys are filling are
working so hard, but you're being filled up while filling
other people up. That's actually like the most beautiful symbiotic
relationship you can have.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
It's a huge blessing to have to get to have
known what I wanted to do from such an early
age and then but it wouldn't have worked without Matt.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
In my opinion, it's divine.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's amazing she got to I mean,
she knew that at such an early age. But then
the fact that the opportunities came early to of course,
we made a lot of mistakes.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
What were some of the mistakes that you made?
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Well, I think I think we were just when your kids.
You just you don't know business that well, you know.
I mean, there's just a lot of pitfalls that we
fell into, like.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Some recondal issues.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
We made a lot of mistakes. But looking back, it's
almost you know that we had the luxury of time
in that respect to you because we're still we're not
spring chickens anymore, but we're still pretty young, and it
feels like we've lived a whole lifetime in the business
even though we're not that.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
But when you start when you're teenagers, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yeah, so you know, it's it's and for Lee it's
like she's singing, you know, the best she's ever been singing.
You know, he a whole lot. So it's it's amazing
that you have that time to discover what you want
to do, figure out your craft, and uh, I think
for Lee to uh to master that and then move
(14:23):
into the writing aspect and really really express herself that
way is amazing to you. So, yeah, you can discover
this early. It's in this business. You have a lot
of time to figure it out. It's great.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
So where did kiss Me come from? Because you guys
were like a Christian band and that I mean that
feels like sexy. I don't know if that's like Christian
a music back in the.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
Day music, I'll say this like Matt, like, so, we
had a record called The Fatherless and the Widow, a
lot of very dark, dark themes about a very beautiful
you know about faith, right because you.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Were really uncovering your faith because you're cat from Catholicism
and a piscopilion and you were like on a journey
to find your own faith. Is that where that came from? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (15:11):
I think I think, uh, I think we both kind
of had our own separate journeys and music was. I
think we've we've both lost a parent, we've we've we've
been through a lot of similar things and music has
always been a way to process that or figure it out,
I guess in real time. And so a lot of
(15:34):
our music has been us figuring out dark things or
or existential things.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
That's a gift. That's a gift to yourself and to
those hearing it.
Speaker 5 (15:43):
And I still hear from people that are maybe in
a marginalized area of our culture unfortunately, that are like,
if it wasn't for your music, Like maybe it was
a kid that was they knew they were gay when
they were young, and they knew their parents it was
(16:04):
going to be hell if they found out and the
parents are like, well, you can only listen to Christian music.
And we were a band that kind of slipped under
the cracks, and it's like because it wasn't, Yeah, it wasn't,
and we didn't consider ourselves ever, I don't think a
Christian band.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
I mean maybe we kind of.
Speaker 5 (16:19):
Tried to go hit the flow until we figured out
we hated it. Really, do you have to be I
just I shouldn't have said. I just meant that that
we were free, didn't feel like we belonged there.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
That's all in that industry.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Well I did.
Speaker 5 (16:38):
I shouldn't have said hate, but but but yeah, I
had a I was very intimidated and still am, and
as I should be of him as a writer. Uh
but anyway, go ahead tell him about kiss Me Matt.
I didn't write that song.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Well, no, I mean that, I guess to lead into
what we're saying that that song is a bit of
an anomaly for us in that way, I think. I think, uh,
I mean, I think going back to what you said,
for us to have that song is so huge because
that's essentially what everybody wants, is this kind of song
that connects all over the world and then and yeah,
(17:15):
and it's and it'll I mean, we'll have it our
whole lives, you know, for better for worse. I think
at one point we wanted to kill it, and we're
just so tired of it, especially Lee, having to just
do it over and over and over again so that
it's still fresh and that people are sort of reinterpreting
it in the world. Is it is nice. We're lucky
(17:37):
to have that, I guess, but we definitely went through
periods of of loathing and hatred for for you know,
what seems like sort of a little anomaly in our
whole catalog, But but it's it's helps us connect with
the world. And I think a lot of our other
music that is sort of the opposite of that has
(17:58):
connected on small levels, but still that connection is the
same that makes sense. So, uh, it's nice to know
that well one Lee can deliver anything and sound amazing,
but that we can explore everything. You know, people think
people still want to hear it. So that's cool.
Speaker 5 (18:16):
Thanks for saying that, But yeah, it still kissed me.
Came from like, I don't you were reading some really
deep literature like poetry, and you know, I would call
Dylan Thomas that's pretty you know down in there.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
I guess, as one does in college.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
I guess this is inspired by.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
A well that that was more just I think that
song was one of those songs that's sort of like
I don't know if you've seen that Rick Ruben book
The Creative Uh is it The Creative act Or?
Speaker 4 (18:52):
I have no idea. I've just heard it's his.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
It's his new book on like how the creative process.
And he'll say, like, describe the way something calm. And
usually the things that just show up in an instant
always seem to have a high rate of success. I
don't know why that is. And that song was certainly
one that just sort of came out of the sheet
in half an hour.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Really but just fell up.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
But the original lyrics were just placeholders out of some weird,
weird poetry.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
I like that. I like that you're deep into the
books because like sixpence, none the richer is from mere Christianity, right.
I like that there's this like deep face. It's like
you're you're I can tell you're like understand trying to
understand your life and faith and all these big thoughts
that we're all dealing with, but putting them in music.
(19:41):
And that is their faith. It was it was their
faith inspired and kiss me? Or was that just like no,
I'm just no.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
No, no, yeah. I mean my dad owned a bookstore,
and my whole family they're all bookish people.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
So it's just that's.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
When you're an only kid, it's kind of what else
is there to do when everybody's reading, you know how,
everybody to play with, you know, and you're at the
bookstore all day? You know, what do you do?
Speaker 2 (20:05):
That's amazing, that's actually amazing.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Yeah, apparently I had too many people to play with.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Matt never showed up.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
In the van for a tour without a stack of
books and some journals, and I was always kind of like,
I don't know, jealous, because I'm like, that's a whole
bunch of stuff I'm not going to know.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Right, and I don't even want to read it. I
wish I'd love to read. I know that's a terrible
thing to say, but like, how amazing I think you
can make yourself.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
I know I need a discipline.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
It is a discipline. It's the whole you know, it's
a bigger issue here, the discipline issue. Actually it's my problem.
Tap into Okay, so y'all blow up. It was like
the end of the nineteenth nineteen nineties, like into it's
weird to say, the ninth nineties, end of the nineteenth century, No,
(20:57):
the twentieth. So the end of the nineteen ninety nineteen,
eighteen ninety nine, I guess, okay, last year in Yeah,
and y'all are young. So you're still teen?
Speaker 4 (21:08):
Are you'll know?
Speaker 2 (21:09):
You're in college? Are you still teenager?
Speaker 4 (21:10):
I wasn't married, wasn't I?
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (21:12):
I married when I was nineteen. I got hitched up.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Are you still married the same person?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
No?
Speaker 5 (21:17):
But he's one of my best friends and he's my
son's father.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Congrats on having a great divorce and friendship.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
That's huge accomplishment, truly truly a lot of affection there,
and so that's good. But yeah, nineteen I was married
and we were yeah, very young, but we had already
just traveled really part of the world together, but all
over the United States and a van and a car
and you know sometimes and then eventually we graduated. I
(21:46):
mean we traveled in all kinds of things with wheels.
There was never a wheelbarrow, but if everything.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
But we slogged pretty hard.
Speaker 5 (21:58):
And that's why I think a lot of people, well
don't They're like, oh, they're a one hit wonder, the
overnight sensation.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
But it wasn't that way at all.
Speaker 5 (22:05):
We played and like First Church's youth group stuff like
we're going to get a pizza, everybody come and and
people were like crowd crowdsurfing and like acting ridiculous to
you know, our songs. But they what we were. We
are a rock band. I think people, you know, it's
(22:28):
easily kind of slips into oh they're a pop band,
kiss me.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
But you come see a show.
Speaker 5 (22:32):
It's loud and those kids were banging up against each
other pretty hard. And we knocked a kid out once
or we didn't do it, but she fell, and sure
your risks.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, So what is it like to get this dream
when you're super young, lock in form a band, you
know this is what you're going to do. You start
traveling around and then kiss Then you have a song,
kiss Me, and it lows up and your dreams are
coming true. It's like in the hottest movies and TV shows.
(23:06):
It's in Dawson's Creek, It's and she's all that. I
was talking to Morgan, my producer. We're walking down here
that iconic scene and she's all that where Rachel Lee
Cook is walking down the stairs, and it's like it
was the moment it kissed me? Was the song? And
it was like in a queen's wedding or something princess.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
I forget who, but yeah, it was. It was I wish.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I mean, it was worldwide. It was wonderful, but I was.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
So like, liked, they please let us come and do
that live?
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Oh my god, right, it would have been insane but sane.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
But anyway, I think it was Prince Andrew or something.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
I don't did all of those TV shows in movie placements.
Is that what catapulted kiss Me? Or what was the
moment that shot the song into super stardom? Like what
what made it all come together? How did it become
a rocket ship?
Speaker 5 (23:54):
I think radio and the and the the placements like
She's all that definitely was that a big one must
have played a big part.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
But radio we worked pretty hard to I don't know
if this was new for the time, but we traveled
all over the country and showed up at radio stations
and just with our guitars and said can we just
play for you in the break room or it was
very very personal based, like we were going around meeting
(24:25):
a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Just talking to people and boots on the ground.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
And yeah, and they they that gave us a lot
of momentum in the radio front. And then I remember
saw that that thing you do kind of moment that
we had because we were out there working hard and
then we finally heard it on a radio station.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
And you know, breaked out.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah. But I think when it did hit the film world,
that's when it really sort of really went like a
rocket ship.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
And those shows like in the in the nineteen hundreds,
the late nineteen hundred, it's so crazy. In the late
nineteen hundreds, it was like those shows were epic. Everybody
was watching Dawson's Creek. Everybody when a new movie like
She's all that came out. Everybody was watching it. You know.
(25:18):
It's like, I feel like there's so much more out
there now, it's like a little bit more. Uh get
lost and lost. You can get lost, but like you
did not get lost in it back then. It's like
you were eagerly anticipating the next episodes of these shows,
you know, these movies and so, and then when the
moment happened and y'all are the song with the moment,
(25:39):
it's like, whoa it impacts on such a big level?
Did I guess it did? It didn't feel I don't
know what it felt like it felt. Do you feel
like you were a star every night? Oh?
Speaker 4 (25:51):
No, I know.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
I've never a day in my life felt like a star.
You've never a day in your life felt like a star?
No way. Man.
Speaker 5 (25:57):
Maybe the day after we played letter I felt I
was feeling myself.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
You should.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
I feel like I start on Letterman and it's played
like a long show on Letterman because somebody dropped out
or had a fight. I don't know if it was
a fight.
Speaker 5 (26:09):
I think Letterman got a little got a little testy
with the first with the only guests, because it was
one guest was Chris Rock and it was us and
maybe somebody didn't show up.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
I'm not sure, but there was extra time made.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Those are those moments you could never plan for. It's like,
y'all go to play your song and then there's a
you know, conflict on the set, so you end up
doing an interview. Did y'all play like another song too?
It's like you end up getting this bigger slot on
a huge We just.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
Did the one song?
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, did we too?
Speaker 2 (26:38):
You know?
Speaker 1 (26:38):
We did well? I think I think I just remember
he kept you up there, he talked to you for
a really long time. I think you just lovely. It
was like instantly it was of disarmed by you a
little bit.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
Yeah, it was really sweet and I just could There
was no way to predict that, so it was so
quick the walking out and then suddenly because there was
really not any warning for that. It was like play
the song and then afterwards you're gonna go there and talk.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
To your hero. Yeah, and I love David Letterman. I
still do. Oh jeez, nobody does it like David Letterman.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
I was freaking out.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Man. I bet that's a huge moment because David Letterman,
like the David Letterman Show. Yeah. Also again, then those
shows are not that they don't matter today, because they do.
But it's just like there weren't tons of outlets to
go get interviewed and talk about your music and to
be heard and seen. So when you made it to
one of those big moment monumentous, monumental outlets, it's like,
(27:35):
holy cow, you know, to be talking to David Letterman
when you dreamed this up at thirteen and sixteen years
old or whatever, that's I gotta be crazy.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah, And I don't know if I think we've talked
about this, but it's it's like we got to be
a little part of talk show television history because that
era is kind of kind of gone. Lenno's gone, Conan's gone,
you know, so we got to see that from the inside,
which is pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, you said you never felt like a star, But
did you feel the difference of like having people now
listening to your music and wanting your music and buying
your music and selling it? Like, did your shows change?
Did the fans change?
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
What changed?
Speaker 4 (28:14):
That was nice? Oh yeah, I guess.
Speaker 5 (28:16):
But even then, like I look back at some of
those shows that you know, you could see them on YouTube,
and there's thousands of people in the crowd. I mean
to me, looking now, it looks like twenty thousand people.
And I'm sure there were, but they were radio festivals.
They weren't all just there to see us. But but yeah,
those I would think I was maybe more anxious than
I was, Like.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
Look at me, Yeah, you're.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Right, Just what were you anxious about? Oh?
Speaker 4 (28:41):
Just being in front of all those people.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
I've always been pretty shy, but I think that at
this point, I think everybody knows that's not true.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
But I used to be shy.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
That's a lot just to all of a sudden it
was in front of.
Speaker 5 (28:54):
A Yeah, it really was people. And I look at myself.
I look at my face, and I'm trying to think
of what I was thinking because I can't remember it,
you know, that thing we did and when Staying was
there and that was a huge night. And I look,
I don't remember what I was thinking. But I'm looking
at my face, not at the same time, but on
the same night, yeah, same bill, And uh, yeah, I
(29:18):
don't know what I was thinking, but I think I
was always trying to keep just keep my head on
my shoulders. My mom is she's still with us, thank God.
And she's always been such a great like wise voice
in my head. And I've got some things in there
that are to who much is given, much is required,
don't forget where you came from. You come from good stock,
(29:41):
don't forget it. And I just refused to. So that
that's you know, humility was always first, and Matt kind
of set that into motion as well, just with the
idea for the name sixpence and on the richer. But
it really fell in line with how I was brought
up and how my sister and I both were brought up.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
So just and those type of events too. It's almost
like delayed processing because that was a festival in Verona,
Italy and one of the colise that one of the
coliseums it's still intact, and yeah it was. It was
an incredible night, sting red hot chili peppers, oh man.
And but what's crazy because you don't quite know what's
(30:24):
going on or you kind of can implode a little
and not quite you're just freaking out. And I remember
my wife's parents hosted these kids from Italy that came
over to study here in Nashville, and and they're like,
oh man, we saw you at festival Bar and Verona,
and that's when you that's kind of crazy, you know,
(30:46):
that's when it starts hitting home, like the impact that
was made. Right, you're not quite seeing it when you're when.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
You're in it right, because I'm sure it's like a tornado.
It's just happening so fast.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Yeah, Oh, it's like that just happened. That was really cool.
Still drink wine?
Speaker 2 (30:59):
What was it? Drink? What was the trajectory of your
moment in Like, just y'all were the it band, So
kiss Me came out? Then there she goes and y'all
had some more songs come out. What how hot? Fast
was the rise? And then when did y'all start taking
a break? Because y'all took a break y'all said, you've
(31:19):
had some moments of the band, like tell me about
that the high to like the transitioning out of the
high and now coming back.
Speaker 5 (31:27):
Well, I think from my vantage point, all that the
record contracts and some of the business stuff, it started
to really grow very tiresome and wear on us as people,
as individuals and certainly as a band. We were in
dangerous territory really for a long time.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
I feel like we should have.
Speaker 5 (31:51):
I don't know what we could have done, but I
wish that things have been different. Dangerous territory just because
it is like it is a marriage of sorts, you know,
time with the label, well in the band, like just
I think when just when the music becomes like, I
feel like we were sort of a lynch pin for
(32:12):
some other things. Am I just I'm all over the
place right now.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Well, she liked to phone a friend.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Well, I think I think it's like what she was saying.
It wasn't We had been working very hard even to
get to that point, and then when the wave hit,
which was massive. Uh, we worked really really hard, uh,
pretty intensely. And we also the label that we were
on had been started by one of our close friends,
(32:41):
Mark was a are there. It was a very it
was a it was a big family affair, and I think, uh,
just stuff happens. Things get messy, and relationships broke apart.
There's weird business stuff. Everybody was burned out, and you know,
I think I think we personally, I feel really lucky,
(33:04):
lucky that we did go in after all that and
make a really great album that's very important to us.
But then after doing that and touring again, I think
a lot of us are just out of gas and that, Yeah,
that was kind of unfortunate timing, and not everybody handles
success the same way. I guess how did you?
Speaker 2 (33:23):
How did you personally handle success?
Speaker 1 (33:25):
So that that was like really difficult for me because
it just you know, I tend to be more introverted
and reading, and it kind of overwhelmed me, to be honest, Yeah,
it probably burned me out quicker than a lot of
the others.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
If you grew up like truly in a bookstore, reading
in your own mind, like very introspective, and now all
of a sudden you're with all the people you know
wanting to talk to you and be with you and
have opinions and like y'all going on. That's a lot
of stimulation.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think it's it's weird because
you go back and say, would I change this? Would
changed that? But then maybe you know that would have
led to not any of this happening.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
So so many people who are like, fame and success
are amazing. When you get it, it's going to be awesome.
But I've talked to so many people it's like when
you get fame and success, it's actually not always awesome.
It comes to the whole new world of anxieties, pressures, obligations, responsibilities,
people wanting things. You don't really know everyone's intentions. All
the time, you got people's energy on you that you
(34:23):
would have never known otherwise a lot If you don't
know how to protect yourself from that, which who does,
especially when you're that young, it can really probably get
all over you.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
But you're right.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
We made we made a record that we're really proud of.
Speaker 5 (34:40):
It's called Divine Discontent, and that was sort of like
you said, we toured it and then I got.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
Pregnant right two thousand.
Speaker 5 (34:49):
I mean I know I did, but I just right
now it's a cute phone in a friend in two thousand.
Well he was born in two thousand and four, so
so anyway, so that's that's kind of when the stopping
point was for a while. And we still we made
a Christmas album that I absolutely we love it, and
(35:09):
then another record called Lost and Transition, and you know,
so we've done stuff, but I also really focused on
being a mother and I'm in love with that child
for the rest of my life. Like we all understand
that's the way the way it works with the kids.
But I also got a chance to do solo stuff
(35:30):
because I was like, wow, I still need a job,
so I can't just look at this baby all day.
I got to make some money, and so I made
a solo couple solo records.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
Or quite a few, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (35:42):
I did some stuff right now, it's all it just
seems like just a big wad of time and so much.
The only thing that matters is that I've got this
twenty year old son that I'm so proud of and
out of all that time. But I know something else
happened that was very important. I got my legs as
a songwriter, you know, apart from Matt.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
But now getting back into like we're writing.
Speaker 5 (36:07):
Again, and I'm starting to feel like, well, I'm really
out of my depth. I I love a lot of
the songs that I've written, I really do.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
I'm really proud of them.
Speaker 5 (36:17):
But when I just personally like match them up to
stuff that I hear Matt writing and some of the
words that he'll come up with, and.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
It's just infuriating.
Speaker 5 (36:27):
But also I'm just so proud to know him and
get to get to be a partner, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
I think it's wonderful that y'all have this music musical partnership.
Was there ever any romance connection with the band?
Speaker 1 (36:39):
No, No, it's always nobody.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Nobody was never It's always.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Been a brother's sister for us.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
That's awesome. Yeah, you can always keep that. We'll keep
that very separated. Yeah, like sometimes that doesn't Sometimes it
gets messy with that. Yeah, but never.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
No, not a Fleetwood Mac situation. Okay, And I think
that's great. That's good that that because that would have
really tanked us sitting here.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yeah, you could have musical differences and come back around,
but when you have like romantic differences a little bit different.
Speaker 5 (37:10):
And since I had sort of a dad, I mean,
we've all everybody, we've got dad issues.
Speaker 4 (37:16):
Whatever some people do.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
But it was I really needed brothers and that that
was really really good strong male support.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
Yeah, yeah I did. And then I kind of got that.
Speaker 5 (37:29):
Well a lot of really funny jokes and dirty jokes too.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
But yeah, she'll hang with hang with the best of them,
no doubt, she'll put us all under the table. Bit
I was gonna say, uh, she you know, there's this
(37:55):
like imposter syndrome thing I think that we both struggle with.
And so, you know, I look to her and go,
you're an amazing writer. Your records are great, you know.
But she can, you know, kind of look at herself
and be like, I'm not. No, there's this questioning aspect
that a lot of creatives have, and we have. We
both have it pretty bad. So it's it's nice that
(38:16):
we can kind of hey, no, you're great, You're amazing,
because you know, it seems like when one of it,
when one of us is down in that pit, you know,
it's like, no, come on, you know, you're amazing, and
it goes back and forth.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Even after all this time and all that success, you
still have imposter syndrome.
Speaker 5 (38:33):
Oh I don't think it ever leaves if you're yeah,
I don't, maybe just not for us, but having.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Talked to a lot of people that have that, well.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
I think all artists have it for sure.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
But I mean when you look at your life like
you have proof now you know that you are not
an impost you know that you are truly. But maybe
that's what keeps artists so great, is like you never
think you're great, you know, And so you're always striving
to be better. And like I even saw Taylor Swift
say that when she was in the lull of her career.
It's like she's like, I just gotta make a better album.
(39:05):
And then she goes on some talk show and they
play a song and she said, sixpence down the richer
kissed Me was the first song she ever played a guitar.
I know, which is so cool. Wild You're affecting the
whole world, the biggest star on the planet, Taylor Swift,
you guys impacted the first song she learned on guitar. So,
I mean, I think.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
It's just free tickets.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Maybe, yeah, Taylor fall her or opening. Actually, Taylor Swift
would be the kind of artist that would put y'all
on a show. I know she Actually I could see
her doing something like that.
Speaker 5 (39:34):
You should.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
I'm just putting that out in the universe. So was
there when y'all had the height of your fame, the
height of your success. You guys are all like navigating that,
and then you know, things start to change, You get pregnant,
you guys realize you're gonna kind of like not tour
as much. Was there some tension? Was there? Some friction.
Did y'all end well, did y'all say we're gonna have
(39:56):
a hard stop or did it just kind of dissipate?
Was everyone okay? Was we're all on good terms? Matt?
Speaker 5 (40:02):
I think you and I were. Yeah, you didn't even
you he Did you delay your trip to Japan just
to be there when Henry was born?
Speaker 2 (40:11):
No?
Speaker 1 (40:11):
I came. I came to the hospital right when I
got back.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
So sweet, Like, how do you navigate?
Speaker 4 (40:16):
It wasn't ugly, There wasn't anything.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
No, because navigating a long band relationship is not easy.
It's like a marriage.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
I think we knew. I mean I think maybe somewhere
we knew that it was. It wasn't over forever, It
just was, you know, obviously we're just moving into a
different chapter of our lives.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
I expose me.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
I definitely was with my baby, my fresh, little, fresh
little baby.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Was it hard to go from the top of the
mountain to like stopping as a band? Probably probably on
some levels that I didn't even perceive.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
I don't know. Yeah, I remember just being kind of
a relief.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Like I thought I wanted to do this, but actually
it really had been by that time.
Speaker 5 (41:00):
We're talking about it's two thousand and four, and so
from we'd already been together and so busy, and it
was our lives for all those years, from ninety four,
ninety three, ninety four to two thousand and four, and
so yeah, I think it called probably life called.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
For a little break and really and we got it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
What did y'all do in the break and the reset?
So Matt's relieved, He's like, I'm gonna go back to
the bookstore. I'm going to read my books and hang
out in my little covey. What did y'all do when
y'all had the break? And did y'all like talk to
each other or was it just like y'all like, we're
just we love each other, but we're going to have
our own lives for a while. And how long was
that break?
Speaker 5 (41:41):
Long?
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Break, guys, I guess, but.
Speaker 5 (41:43):
We always we never just didn't like stop talking for
any ugly reason.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
I don't think what did you get into, Matt when
y'all took your break?
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Well, So, if I'm remembering, I think I think it
was around two thousand and five that Henry was born
four two thousand and four, and then I remember us
doing a smattering of shows and things through two thousand
and five maybe, and then I just i'd just gotten
some other indie bands that it was a lot of fun,
(42:13):
but it never really moved the needle. I studied classical
cello at University Texas, so I kind of re engaged
in some session work, not on a full time level,
but but it was fun to be a part of
other people's records.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
So you enjoy that break from the rocket ship, Well,
I just.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
It made me realize that I love the record making process,
and I love being in Nashville and being able to
like enhance other people's music too, So that was it
was a nice perspective to kind of go, I'm not
burned out on the core of what's important to me here.
But I got I got married and had kids, and
(42:55):
and that I mentioned the kids that came over from
Italy for for college. So we got a return favor
from those kids parents, and we lived in Italy for
a few months and we awesome. We just uh, I
don't know, but it really wasn't that long, because I
think it was only about three years before we came
back and made the Christmas record and then made you know,
(43:19):
we just sort of hovered. We were sort of back
to our indie rock status, indie rock ways, and I
don't know, trying to just again, uh, realizing the core
was still there, that that that that that was not
burned out. But uh, but then you're realizing, like, man,
(43:40):
we were on a huge wave. We probably shouldn't have
got off of it. But but that's it's all right.
You know, we'll find it back. You know, we'll find
another one.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
It's hard to well, you have to trust. You have
to trust your internal guidance system. You know, if your
internal guidance system is shutting down saying we need a break,
this isn't working, then you know it's not going to
probably be good. If you keep pushing it, something's gonna crack, right. Yeah,
So do you guys now that you have had this
(44:08):
time to have this introspective thought about your band, your success,
your impact. It's been twenty five years since kiss Me
came out. Now you are coming back, you know, putting
out the album. You added the Tide to it, which
is an amazing new song. You are going back on tour.
Would you embrace another rocket ship moment? Like would you
(44:29):
embrace being on the top of the Mountain again on
that level or is it more just like this is
what is in your heart and you want to go
out there and just play music as six minutes then
the richer and like remind, give people, give the people
what they want. Like, what is the goal now that
you've had all this time and all this life and
all this music and success and experiences. I think just what.
Speaker 5 (44:51):
It was from the very beginning for me just to
just do it, just keep doing it, make more music,
and then do.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
We have a goal, like a final goal? Has there
ever been an ultimate goal? No? Is there for you?
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Well? Well, I mean to just answer your your first thing. Uh,
we didn't. We didn't have social media when we were
doing all that, so it was uh.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
Nice, you know right, Yeah, it's like a whole new
job on top of it.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
It's nice. But like I have found that when she
when she starts posting things about the past and the
band and old records, it gets mirrored back to you.
You can you can see it all across the world.
People like this music was really important to me, it's
really special. It meant this to me. So uh, I
(45:41):
think I think it's like what like you said, that
was the original goal and it comes full circle.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
And uh, was the goal ever money and fame or
is that just a byproduct?
Speaker 1 (45:51):
I mean, naive teenagers probably were thinking that way the
the that's nice to have, but from the beginning, I
don't know if that was pus. I don't know, but.
Speaker 5 (46:02):
I've never been very I don't like attention. I don't
like people looking at me, which is really weird because
I definitely take the wrong job, but but I do
there is.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
An element I do. I love to entertain.
Speaker 5 (46:13):
I love, you know, making people laugh, maybe making them
cry and the same show. So that doesn't sound like
somebody that doesn't like to be looked at. But I
think it's just just everyday life. I don't I you know,
I live way out, way out in the country and
we live very What.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
Do you feel when you feel that attention on you?
Speaker 5 (46:31):
Oh, like at the store or something I would be
I've had people come up, not often, I mean like
maybe twice in the last year, but like TJ Max
or the grocery store, like my local one.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
You know, when the song is playing.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Like hey, what's up?
Speaker 2 (46:47):
And I get a picture with you.
Speaker 5 (46:48):
And and it's sweet since it doesn't happen but if
it was happening all the time, like really famous people
have to deal with that stuff, I would not do well.
I feel everything, yes, But I also I think that
can be called hypervigilance, just because I'm very sensitive from
my childhood trauma.
Speaker 4 (47:06):
Oh yeah, I feel everything.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Okay, So your childhood was kind of rough. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (47:13):
I mean every everybody's got a thing, but yeah, I
definitely there's a lot of trauma. So yeah, very very empathic,
and I'm thankful for that.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
It's like super it's a superpower, and it can also
I'm super empathic too, and like it used to like
take me down, it used to debilitate me. And then
I've done so much work on myself and I'm like
that's good. Everyone's on their own journey, so you're not
here to save everyone. You just have to let people
have help where you can. But like, it's like people
are just crazy.
Speaker 4 (47:42):
I have to learn to slough it off.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
I have noticed this. So I have noticed though, And
I was actually doing the Bobby Cast with Bobby Bones
yesterday and I was telling him this because we were
talking about traumas, and I've noticed when people have childhood trauma,
everybody has trauma, Like, no one escapes trauma. But when
you have childhood trauma and you that's the first thing
you start off with, you don't realize that there's another
(48:07):
way to do life because that's you're wiring, that's what
you're born into. That's you're an innocent child. You can't
take care of yourself, You're relying on these caregivers. And
so it's like, when that's your entrance into the world,
I feel like it's in my personal opinion, I feel
like it's harder to like understand that that doesn't have
to be whole life is because that's all you know, right,
you know, when you get trauma later in your life, Okay,
(48:29):
you're like, I've lived this other life. I know that
this isn't there, This isn't my entire existence. It's a moment.
But I've had other existences that didn't feel like this,
you know, right, But when it's your first one, it's
kind of hard to understand that doesn't have to be
like that, right.
Speaker 5 (48:43):
It informs your choices about people that you choose to
be around, and you'll choose people that are familiar, and
it was really that's another huge blessing about Matt coming
around when he did. Is he's always been maybe not
I mean yeah, always like safe, safe place, safe person
for me. And so that's that's huge, and that's such
(49:06):
a formative age. And then to still have him in
my life is really great. So he wasn't a bad choice.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
Maybe that was a blessing. Maybe that was just what
you both needed, you know.
Speaker 4 (49:17):
Yeah, yeah, hopefully.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Have you been able to heal some of your childhood trauma?
Speaker 4 (49:23):
I think so.
Speaker 5 (49:24):
And I've got a like I said, my mom's around.
I have an amazing support system within my family. I
missed my dad. He passed away really young at fifty nine.
That's passed away really young as well. And why and
you were really young? I was twenty seven, but I had,
you know, had a young child when my dad passed,
(49:45):
and it was really really it was unexpected, just completely
out of the blue. So that hit me like a
ton of bricks. So I had to at that point
start working through some of the trauma because it just
all of a sudden, it's like this giant monster in
your face screaming at you, like you got to deal
with this else I'm going to swallow you.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
Yeah, what have you learned about yourself by doing this
hard work that I am. Well, I got it.
Speaker 5 (50:25):
I know it's annoying, but I always go maybe it's
not annoying, but I always go back to.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Our creator, who I believe, you.
Speaker 5 (50:33):
Know, is closer than my breath, and so I can
do all things through Christ who strengthens me. There's the Baptist.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
But I really do yeah, I really, I really.
Speaker 4 (50:46):
Do believe it.
Speaker 5 (50:46):
I don't take credit for much, you know, it's from
a higher power I do. I feel like, yeah, something
went well, it's not really generally because of me. But
of course I can make good. I'm the vessel if
I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. And sometimes
I have not been doing what I've been you know,
probably supposed to be doing.
Speaker 4 (51:06):
But but yeah, that's my goal, is.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
To be in alignment with your calling right and your purpose.
That would be good for it, that would be really good.
Speaker 4 (51:15):
I'm trying.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
Yeah, that's awesome. You know. All we can do is try,
you know, all we can do is try. And like
we all are born into life with like a set
of circumstances, some super traumatic Then when you have all
this life debris that you have to sort through and
just like I was. My husband and I've been talking
about this light lately because we're like just in the
big middle of it. We have a four year old,
we're in the middle of careers, in the middle of
(51:37):
just like life. Friends are getting divorced, people are dying,
things are changing, like everyone's having kids. Like the world
feels like it's on fire. It's like what is happening here?
But it's honestly, it's like you're born into this game
of life with no rule book and certain caregivers, and
then you just have to like figure out what you're
drawn to, what your talents are. You just have to
like feel your way through this existence by trusting your intuition,
(52:00):
which in my opinion is God. And then you look
to guides, you look to books, you look to teachers,
but you have to piece the whole thing together. It's
like the biggest craziest experiment game you could ever play.
And we're all doing it right, you know, and trying
to figure out how to do it well and correctly,
and we are blundering all over the place. And then
(52:21):
you have to, like, you know, it's just so much.
Now you get a massive platform and people are like
looking to you, guys as like inspiration as you look
to your books, you know, like people look to you
guys like for answers because you have these songs that
move them. It's just crazy. The whole human experience is wild.
Speaker 4 (52:40):
It is, It really is, and it is.
Speaker 5 (52:42):
And I'll reiterate what a blessing it is to be
able to be the you know, the front woman of
this band, because I know that's one thing about myself
that gives me a lot of I don't know, just courage,
extra courage is that this I'm I'm here for this job.
And I know in a band I will be I
(53:04):
will be there with that hug or that conversation that
might mean something after the show, and I will be
there on that stage and I will give it my all.
And that's what I know about me. I am a
hard worker and I love this.
Speaker 4 (53:19):
I love music. That's what I know about me.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
It's interesting to see too, talking about her dad, because
her dad was such a huge music fan and was
so really wanted that for you, I mean, so it
was amazing for him to see that. But the way
that like so I mean, for that first record, that
was sort of me processing my dad passing away, and
(53:44):
then you've kind of worked and built all these skills
and then when your dad goes, you have this ability
to express. It's a great outlet, you know, and wrote
some beautiful music about that. And then Lee's husband, Stephen
Wilson Junior, he's got a new record.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
He's a great musician and it's.
Speaker 1 (54:04):
It's all it's all born out of him losing a
father and wow. So it's interesting kind of.
Speaker 2 (54:09):
See these because his album is called Son of a Father,
Son of Dad Dad, and his father passed away at
fifty nine too, and that was my father in law,
so he was, you know, Big Steve. He was my
dad too and I loved him very much.
Speaker 5 (54:24):
So it was Yeah, it's been a it's been a
tough five years, but it's been really wonderful to see
Stephen go through his grieving journey and create this incredible album.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
Yeah, that's so amazing. It's like alchemy, you know, when
you have this experience that hits you, that's so painful,
and then to have an outlet like you guys have
to turn this pain, to transform it within yourself and
to turn it into music that can then heal you
and others. I mean that is truly, it is alchemy,
and it's a gift and it's using. I think that's
(54:55):
the point. See, I'm getting alleary about it because I
think that's the whole point of this life is to
figure out. We're all struggling, we all don't know how
to do it, we're all having pain, we're all like
hitting these moments that we need help navigating. And it's like,
oh my god, this person makes me feel seen. Make
this music makes me feel heard, This makes me feel
not alone, This makes everything feel happy, This makes me
(55:16):
feel joy. It's we have to have it, you know,
And but somebody has to transmute those feelings into the
songs so those of us who don't can understand and
have something to like lock into when we're in those moments.
Speaker 5 (55:29):
Right right, Yeah, Music is one It's one way to
do it. And there's you're doing what You're having these
beautiful conversations with people, and you've had a beautiful journey
in music that doesn't it ends wherever you want it to.
You keep going forever. And that's kind of what I
think we intend to do. Just do it so we
can't do it anymore.
Speaker 2 (55:49):
So how what are we excited about most about this
re release? And then we'll wrap up? Tell me, yeah,
tell me, tell me what's on the horizon. How we
feel about doing the big it's like twenty five years,
it's a moment, you know, this like a golden anniversary
of Kissed Me and you're re releasing the record, adding
a new song, going on tour. What are y'all most
excited about right now?
Speaker 1 (56:11):
Yeah? I well, I multiple things. I mean, I mean,
the it's exciting to me that a re release is
always exciting because it just sort of means, like what
you did all those years ago still has value, still
still matters. That's I mean, that's major fuel to keep going.
I don't I can't think of anything better. So that's
(56:34):
very exciting to me. I think making new music with
like a long like a long term plan is exciting.
And I think just in general, starting to play shows
again because I think you forget how much you miss
it maybe in a way. And we we did a
(56:56):
tour in the fall le and I sort of subbed
in with this band ten thousand Maniacs. Oh yeah, and
we hadn't really toured together like that and a long time,
and we were in a support role, you know, but man,
it just felt amazing too. And they're like five hundred
six hundred see places and it was just so much fun.
Speaker 2 (57:18):
You guys show love of the music and the exercise.
Speaker 4 (57:21):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (57:22):
The hugs, yeah, I love the hugs, I know.
Speaker 1 (57:24):
So anyway, get to get to do it again. As
as as a band, Uh, I'm really excited about that.
I hope people buy tickets and come.
Speaker 5 (57:32):
I know, but and with fresh eyes I think you
just said that, but with fresh perspective from you know,
age and hopefully wisdom.
Speaker 2 (57:40):
How what truly what a great gift this is to be.
Speaker 5 (57:43):
Able to give, And yeah, I just want to give
it until until I can't no more.
Speaker 2 (57:48):
I have three questions and we can just answer sort
of quickly. First off, tell me each of y'all a
bucket list moment that you experienced, Because not everyone gets
to have a top song in the world that is
in every movie, every hit TV show and people screaming
your names and like obsessed with this song across the world.
Most people don't have that moment. So when you were
in that moment, what was a bucket list thing that
(58:10):
happened that you didn't even know was a bucketless item.
Speaker 4 (58:12):
I have to meet Guy Clark.
Speaker 2 (58:14):
Okay, how was that? Okay, oh so that's the one
for you. Yes, but you have someone else tattooed on
your arm. It's Aaron Neville. Yeah, okay, so I would
think Hue I met him too, because did you have
the tattoo yet? No, you're like Aaron. I think I
was a big baby.
Speaker 4 (58:31):
We were in New.
Speaker 2 (58:32):
Orleans, Metior heroes has not been bad for you.
Speaker 5 (58:34):
I had to meet Phil Collins too. Holy cow, that
was insane.
Speaker 2 (58:38):
But yeah I would. I would say Guy Clark, he's
my songwriting hero. Okay, okay, bucket list moment for you?
Speaker 1 (58:46):
Well, I I mean I got to say all the
late night TV stuff was was amazing, probably in particular
Conan because uh, well Letterman two. You just growing up
as a kid watching those things, you know, on the
weekends that that was a huge moment.
Speaker 2 (59:03):
And then actually being the one on them.
Speaker 1 (59:05):
Yeah, that was a big deal. Yeah, yeah, that's probably
a big one for me.
Speaker 2 (59:11):
What is the secret to having longevity as a band?
Speaker 4 (59:17):
I don't think we're there ones.
Speaker 2 (59:20):
Because you have it.
Speaker 5 (59:21):
I suppose just an appreciation for what you have and
don't don't take it for granted.
Speaker 4 (59:25):
And if you do, then move on do something else.
Because the world needs.
Speaker 2 (59:30):
Light, Yes it does. Yes, here is we can get it.
So the world does need light. That's that's the goal here.
You have light to give it is it is our
duty to give it. I actually I view it like
that more now, because like I have no idea what
I'm trying to do or where I'm trying to go
with any of this at all. But I'm also just
like I know, I'm trying to put light in the world.
Speaker 4 (59:50):
You are, and.
Speaker 2 (59:51):
That's what we have to do because so many people
are trying to put dark in the world and if
we don't put light in the world, then we're gonna
get swallowed by darkness. But here we are light workers,
so that's amazing.
Speaker 4 (01:00:03):
Yeah, So just spreading light, that's my mission.
Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
What do you think the secret to a band staying together?
Obviously I've had seasons, but like the longevity of like
being able to come back and tour and still appreciate
each other.
Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
And yeah, I mean I think you mentioned the empathic
side of yourself. If you can get in touch with
that and like sort of always be looking at what
it's like to be and the other guy she's got.
That goes a long way. I think that would avoid
a lot of typical fights and things that happened, and
(01:00:38):
just trying to keep that spirited community and sharing going
and not being territorial. Really, I mean, these are all
things that we've done that have that have you know,
caused a lot of issues. But looking back, just look
look at the other guy what he's feeling, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
So wise, it profound. Yeah, all these practices like these
ancient and practices from like God and you know, Christianity
or whatever, even spiritual practice people tune into. They're rude.
They're there to protect us. They're there too, but you
have to get above her ego. It's so hard, you know,
it's so hard to like think about the other person,
to calm down, to not get triggered. You know. It's
(01:01:18):
like it's such a practice in mental maturity. But y'all
are so wise. Y'all have the most humble rock stars
I've ever met.
Speaker 5 (01:01:24):
I think I think it might start with the we
don't think we're rock stars at all. That's probably what
it is. But I mean I'm trying like slip and
slip into my main character. You're totally these nails, but
this is not me.
Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Y'all are total rock stars.
Speaker 4 (01:01:40):
Thank you, you're a rock star.
Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
Well, okay, I always wrap up with leave your Light,
and it's super open ended. But you've had an amazing life.
You've had such a cool journey that you found your
dream so young. I always find that so amazing when
someone finds their dream young, because we're all looking for
our dreams and sometimes it takes people a long time.
Sometimes they never it. So when you know you've had
this dream and it happened, and you know you work
(01:02:03):
so hard and then you've got all these moments and
you got the success and you got what you dreamed
of and more probably you've lived so much life. You've
had such a connection with so many people. You've seen
the world, You've had just like a lot of incredible experiences.
What do you want people to know? Just open end it,
just to leave some some inspiration for people. What do
(01:02:24):
you want them to know? Well, from my from.
Speaker 5 (01:02:27):
My faith perspective, and it really I listened to and
read I do read some tick not Han and I
love Richard Rohrer.
Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
I went to his convention, oh says the first half
of your life is like like your your understanding and
you're digging through the shadows. And the next half you're
like you can actually.
Speaker 5 (01:02:46):
Living upward that book, Yeah if there, if you haven't
read that book or even listened to that Falling Upward
it is. That's so the first and second part of life.
I love that incredible.
Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
Everyone's listening is like, don't be stressed out when the
first half of your life is just kind of ye,
you're sorting through everything that.
Speaker 5 (01:03:01):
You're building that the strength of the wine skin that
the wine eventually goes into. And yeah, I think I'm
saying that right, but yeah, just these these wise teachers,
and I got to include my mom.
Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
But I would just say that just.
Speaker 5 (01:03:19):
She always tells me say your prayers and do the
next thing, and don't make yourself, I mean, don't overinflate yourself.
We're all like, you know the Methuselah tree and out west,
I've never seen it.
Speaker 4 (01:03:32):
Have you seen it?
Speaker 5 (01:03:33):
It's like thousands and thousands of years old, And I
watched a guy walk around it the other day doing
a talk.
Speaker 4 (01:03:38):
I'm sorry I didn't let you answer.
Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
Just no, anyway, it's old as hell.
Speaker 5 (01:03:44):
And he was walking around the tree and he he
was just basically as he walked around and just saying,
this tree is still going to be here when you're gone.
Just keep that in mind, like the things that you
worry about and focus on, you know, make sure it's
something worth focus sing on.
Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
I love that. Yeah, that's good, thank you, leave it
drop it for us.
Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
Matt All right, Well, I referenced that Rick Rubin book
while ago, and I'm just getting a lot out of
it right now. But I think one of the things
I read this morning, he was saying, uh, it's it's uh, really,
it's all about what you have to give to the
world is your point of view, how you filter things
(01:04:25):
and see things. It's it's don't get so fixated on
you know, how well you have your technical skills or
your or your you know, the business side or whatever.
Really what people want and the thing that you can
give is your is your filter and perspective. And everybody
can do that. So I keep we keep thinking like,
(01:04:49):
what why are people connecting with this? And they still
are and it's really just we're basically just trying to
be ourselves and give our point of view. And that's
it's a lot harder than and it sounds, but I
think it's like really liberating for people to hear and
whatever they're doing. It's it takes the pressure off.
Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
I guess, just be you as true as you can because.
Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
That's what that's essentially what other people want, you know,
at the end of the day.
Speaker 5 (01:05:13):
Yeah, yeah, Otherwise there's just it's a shell that you're
presenting exactly authenticity.
Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
I love that. I love that. Okay, will you guys
stick around for a few little burning questions? I do
a little bonus episode. It's real quick where we answer
some burning questions. Of course, as you know, especially if
they're burning, we got to burn it up. Okay, thank
y'all so much for joining me. It was truly an
honor to get to talk to you guys too. Y'all
have impacted me on such a big level. And to
get sit here and hear your heart and your story
and your journey and connect with you was amazing. So everyone,
(01:05:41):
you'll go check out sixpence now they're richer, they're back
on tour, they have an album coming out. When's the album?
Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
We're doing. We just recorded some new songs, recorded some
new songs and that shall be coming soon, so stay tuned, tuned.
It is the album out though the anniversary album is out,
so go grab that with a new song.
Speaker 4 (01:06:00):
I mean, it's so good.
Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
I'm so happy you are like burning up the roads
again and touring and getting out there need and Taylor
Swift shall be calling soon. I can't wait see you
on the Air's tour. Y'all are the best. Thank you
so thank you. Hi
Ada, added carl N.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
She's a queen and talking song.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
She's getting on a three to finger this episode, so
just let it flow. No one can do we quiet
Calne is sounding Carol all right.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I am so excited to have Lee and Matt from
sixpence none the richer on the podcast. I mean, you guys,
thank you. It's really a thrill and an honor to
have you guys here.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I'm sure y'all get that all the time. I was
kind of talking to you briefly about this. Y'all are
one of those bands that, Yes, kiss Me came out
twenty five years ago, and we're doing a big celebration
about it, a new re release of the album plus
a new song on There the Tide, which is so exciting.
But even though kiss Me came out twenty five years ago,
(01:06):
it's one of those songs that just it hit so
hard when it came out and it's like lived on,
like it never got old. I feel like it stayed
strong this past all these past years, Like do y'all
feel that has it just been the song that what
a great what a great song just to have like
as a gift, like you know, it's like it's like,
(01:27):
oh my god, that's your that's who you guys are musically,
that's who y'all came out with. The world found you,
loved you, and like has never let it go right.
Speaker 5 (01:36):
Yeah, the world has been like a dog with a
bone with that song. But there's, uh, there's certainly no
reason to complain about it. I think we both realized,
even more recently just what a gift it is, and that,
you know, a song like that can follow you around
and keep you from being able to it's a really
long shadow. Yeah, I can look at it that way,
(01:59):
but you can also look at it as well. It's
helped me to have a solo career, and it's helped
our name has stayed around and has been somewhat evergreen
with the song, and that's a huge gift. So I'm
just thankful really for the realization, the co realization from
all of us.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
There's two more of us not here.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Obviously they're all still together. Yeah, like, no, the band
never fell apart or anything.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Oh, there was some of that time.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I mean, my husband's in a band and they've been
in a band since they were ten and now they're thirty.
Five and like to stay a band. It's a marriage.
It's a true marriage. The fact that you have been
a band now since you were thirteen. Okay, so the
story's really cool. You are from New Bronfos, Texas. I'm
from Texas also love Texas. And Matt, you were writing
(02:50):
songs singing in high school and are writing songs and
you need a singer and you Lee are like this
great song word and he asked you to sing on
the song and that's how started. When you're thirteen years old.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
Well, yeah, I might have been fourteen when you when
you threw that tape at me, Like literally, no I didn't,
he didn't throw it, but it was I think, you know,
it was just we were on our ways. That's the
way I remember it. But he handed me the tape.
But I was probably fourteen.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a long time ago. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
How did how did y'all know each other? From school? Church? Church?
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (03:25):
From what I remember, I was going to the Baptist
church and Matt you were going.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
To what was it, Yeah, the Episcopal church right across
the street.
Speaker 5 (03:33):
And they didn't do cool stuff, they didn't stuff whatever.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
So we had more youth group events.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
So he came over to the Baptist church and we
were going on a trip or something and that's yeah,
so I kind of got to know him.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
But I was at that real awkward, terrible age.
Speaker 5 (03:52):
I was terrified of everyone, so they're all like very awkward, terrible.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
But I had started singing in church and at school,
and I I knew he played guitar, and obviously then
he showed me that song.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
And what was the song? Realthing just kind of cracked open.
It was called trust in the Lord.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Well you had you had been singing around New Brothels too,
just singing country songs, and you had a really cool outfit.
Speaker 5 (04:15):
You always have came a cool thank you my big
old britches today.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Looking good.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
So she I think she knew early what she wanted
to do, and it was I mean, it was very
visible to me. It was I felt lucky that she
kind of wanted to even engage.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
It's really sweet.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
I wasn't going to get out of the shadow of
who was it that singer from Dallas, Kelly Willis?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Is that her name? Kelly Willis?
Speaker 4 (04:44):
Mary married to Bruce Oh.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Bruce Robison.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
Oh yea yeah, yeah, yeah, we're Kelly Willis again.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
But she was the big thing in Texas that yeah, yeah,
they're still.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Kind of a big duo or did they divorce.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
And then they's somehow to much to the chicks. I think, like, yeah,
there was some producing that.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Yeah, Lloyd Main's Nowly's daddy.
Speaker 5 (05:10):
And I just wasn't I wasn't bold enough or connected
in my family. My mom was a teacher. My dad
was kind of this, uh, I don't even know how
to describe it. Well, he was awesome, but he was
like a banker turned inventor and kind of followed that
passion for this invention.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
That he had inventor what did he invent? That's really
I'll keep it really well.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
You could you could say he was ahead of his time.
Speaker 5 (05:37):
And it was absolutely like it was this muscle stimulator
that was to the purpose was to cure a diabetic neuropathy.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Cool.
Speaker 5 (05:47):
And he was the business manager for the guy that
had was trying to get it off the ground, and
his name was Alan Blackthorne, and my dad was the
kind of keeping the books for him, and then Alan
asked my to start cooking the books and my dad
said no. And Alan went on to become a terrible killer.
So everyone can google that later. But that was part
(06:09):
of my childhood.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Terrible killer.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
Yeah, yeah, I'll leave it at that. This is too
nice of a place to talk about that are so weird,
I know, But my dad, so back to him, he
kept he.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Carried the torch, but actually did it correctly.
Speaker 5 (06:23):
And he just spent the rest of his life in
libraries and running clinical trials in Mexico and doing so
many interesting things and just had just piles and piles.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Of papers, so he wanted everywhere.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
He really did. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
Wow, he was really interesting now, just very very eclectic,
very free spirit. And so anyway, I guess my point
is I didn't really have the backing.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
I guess I don't know what I would I had
to do. I was too shy to become like Leanne
Rhymes or something.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
She kind of came out pretty around that time time.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
All the Yeah, the artists coming out, it was a
big that was a big moment for music. There's a
one of great artists coming out. Then.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
I wanted to be the next Tanya Tucker. And you
want to the country Matt oh desperately because you were
listening to Patsy Klein desperately country. Okay, desperately, it was
not desperately country.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Unfortunately I was late to the party. Was a shame
to say as a text, and but we eventually discovered
it all.
Speaker 5 (07:25):
Yeah, but I think I think it was a miracle
that he came along. And I mean, how did two
kids from New bron fules achieve you know what you know?
And we didn't achieve it. I think God did through us.
I still think that way, sure, But I guess I
just thank god I didn't go that route only because
(07:48):
I just don't. It wouldn't have had the effect. My
voice is for something else.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
And I feel like sometimes bands are just meant to be,
especially when you get together super young. I just know
this from my husband's experience too, because I mean, he's
a great singer. He could probably definitely do something on
his own, for sure if he wants to. But something
about when a band really forms, especially at that young
age where you're discovering everything together. You're discovering music together,
(08:14):
you're discovering your voice together, you're discovering what you like,
and then you come together as kids and you do
it together. There's a magic there that just doesn't happen
out of outside of adolescence. I don't personally think that's interesting.
And if you can hang in there as a band
like y'all have for all these years, it's just like
it's so rare.
Speaker 5 (08:33):
Yeah, it is, it is, and we really I guess
we started in ninety three and then I graduated in
ninety four, and I'm talking a lot about myself.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
I'm sorry, Matts.
Speaker 5 (08:46):
Matt was living a really cool life also, but I'm
just trying to get so.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
At ninety four, I graduated.
Speaker 5 (08:56):
And we left, like within a week of me graduating,
were cool with you going on the road.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
I think they were relieved, not because I was a
bad kid.
Speaker 5 (09:04):
I think it was just more like, what is she
going to do if she doesn't go do this?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Because you have an eccentric personality priority you needed to
express yourself. With the fact that you could lock it
into music is.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
A good That's why I categorized this whole thing as
a as a god breathed thing for I don't have
a question in my mind about it, So very thankful
for that.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
But from ninety three to two, well yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Well, looking back, looking back, it was we didn't think
anything of it. Back then. But when I went to
University Texas at Austin, so my freshman year lawns yeah,
and we had we had finished.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Wait yeah, wait no this right yeah sorry yeah yeah
not I love you, but I love.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
You, but we she had come back for your junior
year with it with a finished album. I think. So
she's at high school, she's like the only girl that's,
you know, recorded a record that's been released. And so
we couldn't get into the Austin scene. We weren't cool
enough for Austin at that point. They weren't having it.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
But because y'all were like Christian rock pop all the things,
you couldn't be all those things back then. You had
to be more defined, right.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
It was very delineated black and white. Yeah, And but
Dallas like really accepted us, like that whole deep LM
scene and club Dotta Trees all that. So we were
having to drive up there for all the gigs that
we got. So her parents were letting me they would
drive her up to Austin. I'd get out of class,
(10:41):
we'd drive up to Dallas, play a show, and then
high tail it back and she'd be in school the
next morning. I could sleep in because I was in college.
But for you know, she's always been a hard worker.
But it was right from the beginning, you know.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
I think I just knew that it was something bigger
than myself. You did, yeah, you know that because of
the way.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
That I felt singing to crowds, like when I first
singing his words, like when when I was sorry pointed
at you. That's rude. But I think we're passed. But
trust me, I won't.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Those nails are phenomenal anyway, your fingers, but they look amazing.
Speaker 5 (11:26):
I know, I can't do anything. I'm surprised I could
drive here today. But yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Know for beauty, but yeah, singing words on stage.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
Connect that, the connection between audience and myself kind of selfishly,
if I'm gonna make it all about me, just became
I mean, that's still what drives me. There's nothing there's
nothing like it, and it's yeah, it's selfish, but it's
also there's a gratification of knowing like you've I don't know,
(11:59):
you've made a conne with another human being, and it's everything.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
It's just everything.
Speaker 5 (12:04):
Human connection and kindness and love, and yeah, I'm an
addict of it. I can't get enough, so as long
as somebody wants to show up and like whatever, And
it's not just one sided. I love talking to people
afterwards after shows as well. But yeah, it's just kind
of the whole thing for me is about hugging people,
(12:28):
loving people.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
I really really love people. I don't think it's selfish
when God has given you a gift and you use it.
I actually think it's what we're supposed to do. You know,
if everyone in the world could figure out their gift
that they were given and were able to use it,
don't you feel like the world would be such a
(12:49):
happier place because all these people are doing all these
things they don't want to do or clocking in. They're
spending their days in these jobs where they don't feel
fulfilled at all. But like you, guys are filling are
working so hard, but you're being filled up while filling
other people up. That's actually like the most beautiful symbiotic
relationship you can have.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
It's a huge blessing to have to get to have
known what I wanted to do from such an early
age and then but it wouldn't have worked without Matt.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
In my opinion, it's divine.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's amazing she got to I mean,
she knew that at such an early age. But then
the fact that the opportunities came early to of course,
we made a lot of mistakes.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
What were some of the mistakes that you made?
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Well, I think I think we were just when your kids.
You just you don't know business that well, you know.
I mean, there's just a lot of pitfalls that we
fell into, like.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Some recondal issues.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
We made a lot of mistakes. But looking back, it's
almost you know that we had the luxury of time
in that respect to you because we're still we're not
spring chickens anymore, but we're still pretty young, and it
feels like we've lived a whole lifetime in the business
even though we're not that.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
But when you start when you're teenagers, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yeah, so you know, it's it's and for Lee it's
like she's singing, you know, the best she's ever been singing.
You know, he a whole lot. So it's it's amazing
that you have that time to discover what you want
to do, figure out your craft, and uh, I think
for Lee to uh to master that and then move
(14:23):
into the writing aspect and really really express herself that
way is amazing to you. So, yeah, you can discover
this early. It's in this business. You have a lot
of time to figure it out. It's great.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
So where did kiss Me come from? Because you guys
were like a Christian band and that I mean that
feels like sexy. I don't know if that's like Christian
a music back in the.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
Day music, I'll say this like Matt, like, so, we
had a record called The Fatherless and the Widow, a
lot of very dark, dark themes about a very beautiful
you know about faith, right because you.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Were really uncovering your faith because you're cat from Catholicism
and a piscopilion and you were like on a journey
to find your own faith. Is that where that came from? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (15:11):
I think I think, uh, I think we both kind
of had our own separate journeys and music was. I
think we've we've both lost a parent, we've we've we've
been through a lot of similar things and music has
always been a way to process that or figure it out,
I guess in real time. And so a lot of
(15:34):
our music has been us figuring out dark things or
or existential things.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
That's a gift. That's a gift to yourself and to
those hearing it.
Speaker 5 (15:43):
And I still hear from people that are maybe in
a marginalized area of our culture unfortunately, that are like,
if it wasn't for your music, Like maybe it was
a kid that was they knew they were gay when
they were young, and they knew their parents it was
(16:04):
going to be hell if they found out and the
parents are like, well, you can only listen to Christian music.
And we were a band that kind of slipped under
the cracks, and it's like because it wasn't, Yeah, it wasn't,
and we didn't consider ourselves ever, I don't think a
Christian band.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
I mean maybe we kind of.
Speaker 5 (16:19):
Tried to go hit the flow until we figured out
we hated it. Really, do you have to be I
just I shouldn't have said. I just meant that that
we were free, didn't feel like we belonged there.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
That's all in that industry.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Well I did.
Speaker 5 (16:38):
I shouldn't have said hate, but but but yeah, I
had a I was very intimidated and still am, and
as I should be of him as a writer. Uh
but anyway, go ahead tell him about kiss Me Matt.
I didn't write that song.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Well, no, I mean that, I guess to lead into
what we're saying that that song is a bit of
an anomaly for us in that way, I think. I think, uh,
I mean, I think going back to what you said,
for us to have that song is so huge because
that's essentially what everybody wants, is this kind of song
that connects all over the world and then and yeah,
(17:15):
and it's and it'll I mean, we'll have it our
whole lives, you know, for better for worse. I think
at one point we wanted to kill it, and we're
just so tired of it, especially Lee, having to just
do it over and over and over again so that
it's still fresh and that people are sort of reinterpreting
it in the world. Is it is nice. We're lucky
(17:37):
to have that, I guess, but we definitely went through
periods of of loathing and hatred for for you know,
what seems like sort of a little anomaly in our
whole catalog, But but it's it's helps us connect with
the world. And I think a lot of our other
music that is sort of the opposite of that has
(17:58):
connected on small levels, but still that connection is the
same that makes sense. So, uh, it's nice to know
that well one Lee can deliver anything and sound amazing,
but that we can explore everything. You know, people think
people still want to hear it. So that's cool.
Speaker 5 (18:16):
Thanks for saying that, But yeah, it still kissed me.
Came from like, I don't you were reading some really
deep literature like poetry, and you know, I would call
Dylan Thomas that's pretty you know down in there.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
I guess, as one does in college.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
I guess this is inspired by.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
A well that that was more just I think that
song was one of those songs that's sort of like
I don't know if you've seen that Rick Ruben book
The Creative Uh is it The Creative act Or?
Speaker 4 (18:52):
I have no idea. I've just heard it's his.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
It's his new book on like how the creative process.
And he'll say, like, describe the way something calm. And
usually the things that just show up in an instant
always seem to have a high rate of success. I
don't know why that is. And that song was certainly
one that just sort of came out of the sheet
in half an hour.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Really but just fell up.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
But the original lyrics were just placeholders out of some weird,
weird poetry.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
I like that. I like that you're deep into the
books because like sixpence, none the richer is from mere Christianity, right.
I like that there's this like deep face. It's like
you're you're I can tell you're like understand trying to
understand your life and faith and all these big thoughts
that we're all dealing with, but putting them in music.
(19:41):
And that is their faith. It was it was their
faith inspired and kiss me? Or was that just like no,
I'm just no.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
No, no, yeah. I mean my dad owned a bookstore,
and my whole family they're all bookish people.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
So it's just that's.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
When you're an only kid, it's kind of what else
is there to do when everybody's reading, you know how,
everybody to play with, you know, and you're at the
bookstore all day? You know, what do you do?
Speaker 2 (20:05):
That's amazing, that's actually amazing.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Yeah, apparently I had too many people to play with.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Matt never showed up.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
In the van for a tour without a stack of
books and some journals, and I was always kind of like,
I don't know, jealous, because I'm like, that's a whole
bunch of stuff I'm not going to know.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Right, and I don't even want to read it. I
wish I'd love to read. I know that's a terrible
thing to say, but like, how amazing I think you
can make yourself.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
I know I need a discipline.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
It is a discipline. It's the whole you know, it's
a bigger issue here, the discipline issue. Actually it's my problem.
Tap into Okay, so y'all blow up. It was like
the end of the nineteenth nineteen nineties, like into it's
weird to say, the ninth nineties, end of the nineteenth century, No,
(20:57):
the twentieth. So the end of the nineteen ninety nineteen,
eighteen ninety nine, I guess, okay, last year in Yeah,
and y'all are young. So you're still teen?
Speaker 4 (21:08):
Are you'll know?
Speaker 2 (21:09):
You're in college? Are you still teenager?
Speaker 4 (21:10):
I wasn't married, wasn't I?
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (21:12):
I married when I was nineteen. I got hitched up.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Are you still married the same person?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
No?
Speaker 5 (21:17):
But he's one of my best friends and he's my
son's father.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Congrats on having a great divorce and friendship.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
That's huge accomplishment, truly truly a lot of affection there,
and so that's good. But yeah, nineteen I was married
and we were yeah, very young, but we had already
just traveled really part of the world together, but all
over the United States and a van and a car
and you know sometimes and then eventually we graduated. I
(21:46):
mean we traveled in all kinds of things with wheels.
There was never a wheelbarrow, but if everything.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
But we slogged pretty hard.
Speaker 5 (21:58):
And that's why I think a lot of people, well
don't They're like, oh, they're a one hit wonder, the
overnight sensation.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
But it wasn't that way at all.
Speaker 5 (22:05):
We played and like First Church's youth group stuff like
we're going to get a pizza, everybody come and and
people were like crowd crowdsurfing and like acting ridiculous to
you know, our songs. But they what we were. We
are a rock band. I think people, you know, it's
(22:28):
easily kind of slips into oh they're a pop band,
kiss me.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
But you come see a show.
Speaker 5 (22:32):
It's loud and those kids were banging up against each
other pretty hard. And we knocked a kid out once
or we didn't do it, but she fell, and sure
your risks.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, So what is it like to get this dream
when you're super young, lock in form a band, you
know this is what you're going to do. You start
traveling around and then kiss Then you have a song,
kiss Me, and it lows up and your dreams are
coming true. It's like in the hottest movies and TV shows.
(23:06):
It's in Dawson's Creek, It's and she's all that. I
was talking to Morgan, my producer. We're walking down here
that iconic scene and she's all that where Rachel Lee
Cook is walking down the stairs, and it's like it
was the moment it kissed me? Was the song? And
it was like in a queen's wedding or something princess.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
I forget who, but yeah, it was. It was I wish.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I mean, it was worldwide. It was wonderful, but I was.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
So like, liked, they please let us come and do
that live?
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Oh my god, right, it would have been insane but sane.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
But anyway, I think it was Prince Andrew or something.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
I don't did all of those TV shows in movie placements.
Is that what catapulted kiss Me? Or what was the
moment that shot the song into super stardom? Like what
what made it all come together? How did it become
a rocket ship?
Speaker 5 (23:54):
I think radio and the and the the placements like
She's all that definitely was that a big one must
have played a big part.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
But radio we worked pretty hard to I don't know
if this was new for the time, but we traveled
all over the country and showed up at radio stations
and just with our guitars and said can we just
play for you in the break room or it was
very very personal based, like we were going around meeting
(24:25):
a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Just talking to people and boots on the ground.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
And yeah, and they they that gave us a lot
of momentum in the radio front. And then I remember
saw that that thing you do kind of moment that
we had because we were out there working hard and
then we finally heard it on a radio station.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
And you know, breaked out.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah. But I think when it did hit the film world,
that's when it really sort of really went like a
rocket ship.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
And those shows like in the in the nineteen hundreds,
the late nineteen hundred, it's so crazy. In the late
nineteen hundreds, it was like those shows were epic. Everybody
was watching Dawson's Creek. Everybody when a new movie like
She's all that came out. Everybody was watching it. You know.
(25:18):
It's like, I feel like there's so much more out
there now, it's like a little bit more. Uh get
lost and lost. You can get lost, but like you
did not get lost in it back then. It's like
you were eagerly anticipating the next episodes of these shows,
you know, these movies and so, and then when the
moment happened and y'all are the song with the moment,
(25:39):
it's like, whoa it impacts on such a big level?
Did I guess it did? It didn't feel I don't
know what it felt like it felt. Do you feel
like you were a star every night? Oh?
Speaker 4 (25:51):
No, I know.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
I've never a day in my life felt like a star.
You've never a day in your life felt like a star?
No way. Man.
Speaker 5 (25:57):
Maybe the day after we played letter I felt I
was feeling myself.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
You should.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
I feel like I start on Letterman and it's played
like a long show on Letterman because somebody dropped out
or had a fight. I don't know if it was
a fight.
Speaker 5 (26:09):
I think Letterman got a little got a little testy
with the first with the only guests, because it was
one guest was Chris Rock and it was us and
maybe somebody didn't show up.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
I'm not sure, but there was extra time made.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Those are those moments you could never plan for. It's like,
y'all go to play your song and then there's a
you know, conflict on the set, so you end up
doing an interview. Did y'all play like another song too?
It's like you end up getting this bigger slot on
a huge We just.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
Did the one song?
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, did we too?
Speaker 2 (26:38):
You know?
Speaker 1 (26:38):
We did well? I think I think I just remember
he kept you up there, he talked to you for
a really long time. I think you just lovely. It
was like instantly it was of disarmed by you a
little bit.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
Yeah, it was really sweet and I just could There
was no way to predict that, so it was so
quick the walking out and then suddenly because there was
really not any warning for that. It was like play
the song and then afterwards you're gonna go there and talk.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
To your hero. Yeah, and I love David Letterman. I
still do. Oh jeez, nobody does it like David Letterman.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
I was freaking out.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Man. I bet that's a huge moment because David Letterman,
like the David Letterman Show. Yeah. Also again, then those
shows are not that they don't matter today, because they do.
But it's just like there weren't tons of outlets to
go get interviewed and talk about your music and to
be heard and seen. So when you made it to
one of those big moment monumentous, monumental outlets, it's like,
(27:35):
holy cow, you know, to be talking to David Letterman
when you dreamed this up at thirteen and sixteen years
old or whatever, that's I gotta be crazy.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah, And I don't know if I think we've talked
about this, but it's it's like we got to be
a little part of talk show television history because that
era is kind of kind of gone. Lenno's gone, Conan's gone,
you know, so we got to see that from the inside,
which is pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, you said you never felt like a star, But
did you feel the difference of like having people now
listening to your music and wanting your music and buying
your music and selling it? Like, did your shows change?
Did the fans change?
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
What changed?
Speaker 4 (28:14):
That was nice? Oh yeah, I guess.
Speaker 5 (28:16):
But even then, like I look back at some of
those shows that you know, you could see them on YouTube,
and there's thousands of people in the crowd. I mean
to me, looking now, it looks like twenty thousand people.
And I'm sure there were, but they were radio festivals.
They weren't all just there to see us. But but yeah,
those I would think I was maybe more anxious than
I was, Like.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
Look at me, Yeah, you're.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Right, Just what were you anxious about? Oh?
Speaker 4 (28:41):
Just being in front of all those people.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
I've always been pretty shy, but I think that at
this point, I think everybody knows that's not true.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
But I used to be shy.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
That's a lot just to all of a sudden it
was in front of.
Speaker 5 (28:54):
A Yeah, it really was people. And I look at myself.
I look at my face, and I'm trying to think
of what I was thinking because I can't remember it,
you know, that thing we did and when Staying was
there and that was a huge night. And I look,
I don't remember what I was thinking. But I'm looking
at my face, not at the same time, but on
the same night, yeah, same bill, And uh, yeah, I
(29:18):
don't know what I was thinking, but I think I
was always trying to keep just keep my head on
my shoulders. My mom is she's still with us, thank God.
And she's always been such a great like wise voice
in my head. And I've got some things in there
that are to who much is given, much is required,
don't forget where you came from. You come from good stock,
(29:41):
don't forget it. And I just refused to. So that
that's you know, humility was always first, and Matt kind
of set that into motion as well, just with the
idea for the name sixpence and on the richer. But
it really fell in line with how I was brought
up and how my sister and I both were brought up.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
So just and those type of events too. It's almost
like delayed processing because that was a festival in Verona,
Italy and one of the colise that one of the
coliseums it's still intact, and yeah it was. It was
an incredible night, sting red hot chili peppers, oh man.
And but what's crazy because you don't quite know what's
(30:24):
going on or you kind of can implode a little
and not quite you're just freaking out. And I remember
my wife's parents hosted these kids from Italy that came
over to study here in Nashville, and and they're like,
oh man, we saw you at festival Bar and Verona,
and that's when you that's kind of crazy, you know,
(30:46):
that's when it starts hitting home, like the impact that
was made. Right, you're not quite seeing it when you're when.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
You're in it right, because I'm sure it's like a tornado.
It's just happening so fast.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Yeah, Oh, it's like that just happened. That was really cool.
Still drink wine?
Speaker 2 (30:59):
What was it? Drink? What was the trajectory of your
moment in Like, just y'all were the it band, So
kiss Me came out? Then there she goes and y'all
had some more songs come out. What how hot? Fast
was the rise? And then when did y'all start taking
a break? Because y'all took a break y'all said, you've
(31:19):
had some moments of the band, like tell me about
that the high to like the transitioning out of the
high and now coming back.
Speaker 5 (31:27):
Well, I think from my vantage point, all that the
record contracts and some of the business stuff, it started
to really grow very tiresome and wear on us as people,
as individuals and certainly as a band. We were in
dangerous territory really for a long time.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
I feel like we should have.
Speaker 5 (31:51):
I don't know what we could have done, but I
wish that things have been different. Dangerous territory just because
it is like it is a marriage of sorts, you know,
time with the label, well in the band, like just
I think when just when the music becomes like, I
feel like we were sort of a lynch pin for
(32:12):
some other things. Am I just I'm all over the
place right now.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Well, she liked to phone a friend.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Well, I think I think it's like what she was saying.
It wasn't We had been working very hard even to
get to that point, and then when the wave hit,
which was massive. Uh, we worked really really hard, uh,
pretty intensely. And we also the label that we were
on had been started by one of our close friends,
(32:41):
Mark was a are there. It was a very it
was a it was a big family affair, and I think, uh,
just stuff happens. Things get messy, and relationships broke apart.
There's weird business stuff. Everybody was burned out, and you know,
I think I think we personally, I feel really lucky,
(33:04):
lucky that we did go in after all that and
make a really great album that's very important to us.
But then after doing that and touring again, I think
a lot of us are just out of gas and that, Yeah,
that was kind of unfortunate timing, and not everybody handles
success the same way. I guess how did you?
Speaker 2 (33:23):
How did you personally handle success?
Speaker 1 (33:25):
So that that was like really difficult for me because
it just you know, I tend to be more introverted
and reading, and it kind of overwhelmed me, to be honest, Yeah,
it probably burned me out quicker than a lot of
the others.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
If you grew up like truly in a bookstore, reading
in your own mind, like very introspective, and now all
of a sudden you're with all the people you know
wanting to talk to you and be with you and
have opinions and like y'all going on. That's a lot
of stimulation.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think it's it's weird because
you go back and say, would I change this? Would
changed that? But then maybe you know that would have
led to not any of this happening.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
So so many people who are like, fame and success
are amazing. When you get it, it's going to be awesome.
But I've talked to so many people it's like when
you get fame and success, it's actually not always awesome.
It comes to the whole new world of anxieties, pressures, obligations, responsibilities,
people wanting things. You don't really know everyone's intentions. All
the time, you got people's energy on you that you
(34:23):
would have never known otherwise a lot If you don't
know how to protect yourself from that, which who does,
especially when you're that young, it can really probably get
all over you.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
But you're right.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
We made we made a record that we're really proud of.
Speaker 5 (34:40):
It's called Divine Discontent, and that was sort of like
you said, we toured it and then I got.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
Pregnant right two thousand.
Speaker 5 (34:49):
I mean I know I did, but I just right
now it's a cute phone in a friend in two thousand.
Well he was born in two thousand and four, so
so anyway, so that's that's kind of when the stopping
point was for a while. And we still we made
a Christmas album that I absolutely we love it, and
(35:09):
then another record called Lost and Transition, and you know,
so we've done stuff, but I also really focused on
being a mother and I'm in love with that child
for the rest of my life. Like we all understand
that's the way the way it works with the kids.
But I also got a chance to do solo stuff
(35:30):
because I was like, wow, I still need a job,
so I can't just look at this baby all day.
I got to make some money, and so I made
a solo couple solo records.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
Or quite a few, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (35:42):
I did some stuff right now, it's all it just
seems like just a big wad of time and so much.
The only thing that matters is that I've got this
twenty year old son that I'm so proud of and
out of all that time. But I know something else
happened that was very important. I got my legs as
a songwriter, you know, apart from Matt.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
But now getting back into like we're writing.
Speaker 5 (36:07):
Again, and I'm starting to feel like, well, I'm really
out of my depth. I I love a lot of
the songs that I've written, I really do.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
I'm really proud of them.
Speaker 5 (36:17):
But when I just personally like match them up to
stuff that I hear Matt writing and some of the
words that he'll come up with, and.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
It's just infuriating.
Speaker 5 (36:27):
But also I'm just so proud to know him and
get to get to be a partner, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
I think it's wonderful that y'all have this music musical partnership.
Was there ever any romance connection with the band?
Speaker 1 (36:39):
No, No, it's always nobody.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Nobody was never It's always.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Been a brother's sister for us.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
That's awesome. Yeah, you can always keep that. We'll keep
that very separated. Yeah, like sometimes that doesn't Sometimes it
gets messy with that. Yeah, but never.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
No, not a Fleetwood Mac situation. Okay, And I think
that's great. That's good that that because that would have
really tanked us sitting here.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yeah, you could have musical differences and come back around,
but when you have like romantic differences a little bit different.
Speaker 5 (37:10):
And since I had sort of a dad, I mean,
we've all everybody, we've got dad issues.
Speaker 4 (37:16):
Whatever some people do.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
But it was I really needed brothers and that that
was really really good strong male support.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
Yeah, yeah I did. And then I kind of got that.
Speaker 5 (37:29):
Well a lot of really funny jokes and dirty jokes too.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
But yeah, she'll hang with hang with the best of them,
no doubt, she'll put us all under the table. Bit
I was gonna say, uh, she you know, there's this
(37:55):
like imposter syndrome thing I think that we both struggle with.
And so, you know, I look to her and go,
you're an amazing writer. Your records are great, you know.
But she can, you know, kind of look at herself
and be like, I'm not. No, there's this questioning aspect
that a lot of creatives have, and we have. We
both have it pretty bad. So it's it's nice that
(38:16):
we can kind of hey, no, you're great, You're amazing,
because you know, it seems like when one of it,
when one of us is down in that pit, you know,
it's like, no, come on, you know, you're amazing, and
it goes back and forth.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Even after all this time and all that success, you
still have imposter syndrome.
Speaker 5 (38:33):
Oh I don't think it ever leaves if you're yeah,
I don't, maybe just not for us, but having.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Talked to a lot of people that have that, well.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
I think all artists have it for sure.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
But I mean when you look at your life like
you have proof now you know that you are not
an impost you know that you are truly. But maybe
that's what keeps artists so great, is like you never
think you're great, you know, And so you're always striving
to be better. And like I even saw Taylor Swift
say that when she was in the lull of her career.
It's like she's like, I just gotta make a better album.
(39:05):
And then she goes on some talk show and they
play a song and she said, sixpence down the richer
kissed Me was the first song she ever played a guitar.
I know, which is so cool. Wild You're affecting the
whole world, the biggest star on the planet, Taylor Swift,
you guys impacted the first song she learned on guitar. So,
I mean, I think.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
It's just free tickets.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Maybe, yeah, Taylor fall her or opening. Actually, Taylor Swift
would be the kind of artist that would put y'all
on a show. I know she Actually I could see
her doing something like that.
Speaker 5 (39:34):
You should.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
I'm just putting that out in the universe. So was
there when y'all had the height of your fame, the
height of your success. You guys are all like navigating that,
and then you know, things start to change, You get pregnant,
you guys realize you're gonna kind of like not tour
as much. Was there some tension? Was there? Some friction.
Did y'all end well, did y'all say we're gonna have
(39:56):
a hard stop or did it just kind of dissipate?
Was everyone okay? Was we're all on good terms? Matt?
Speaker 5 (40:02):
I think you and I were. Yeah, you didn't even
you he Did you delay your trip to Japan just
to be there when Henry was born?
Speaker 2 (40:11):
No?
Speaker 1 (40:11):
I came. I came to the hospital right when I
got back.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
So sweet, Like, how do you navigate?
Speaker 4 (40:16):
It wasn't ugly, There wasn't anything.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
No, because navigating a long band relationship is not easy.
It's like a marriage.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
I think we knew. I mean I think maybe somewhere
we knew that it was. It wasn't over forever, It
just was, you know, obviously we're just moving into a
different chapter of our lives.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
I expose me.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
I definitely was with my baby, my fresh, little, fresh
little baby.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Was it hard to go from the top of the
mountain to like stopping as a band? Probably probably on
some levels that I didn't even perceive.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
I don't know. Yeah, I remember just being kind of
a relief.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Like I thought I wanted to do this, but actually
it really had been by that time.
Speaker 5 (41:00):
We're talking about it's two thousand and four, and so
from we'd already been together and so busy, and it
was our lives for all those years, from ninety four,
ninety three, ninety four to two thousand and four, and
so yeah, I think it called probably life called.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
For a little break and really and we got it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
What did y'all do in the break and the reset?
So Matt's relieved, He's like, I'm gonna go back to
the bookstore. I'm going to read my books and hang
out in my little covey. What did y'all do when
y'all had the break? And did y'all like talk to
each other or was it just like y'all like, we're
just we love each other, but we're going to have
our own lives for a while. And how long was
that break?
Speaker 5 (41:41):
Long?
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Break, guys, I guess, but.
Speaker 5 (41:43):
We always we never just didn't like stop talking for
any ugly reason.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
I don't think what did you get into, Matt when
y'all took your break?
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Well, So, if I'm remembering, I think I think it
was around two thousand and five that Henry was born
four two thousand and four, and then I remember us
doing a smattering of shows and things through two thousand
and five maybe, and then I just i'd just gotten
some other indie bands that it was a lot of fun,
(42:13):
but it never really moved the needle. I studied classical
cello at University Texas, so I kind of re engaged
in some session work, not on a full time level,
but but it was fun to be a part of
other people's records.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
So you enjoy that break from the rocket ship, Well,
I just.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
It made me realize that I love the record making process,
and I love being in Nashville and being able to
like enhance other people's music too, So that was it
was a nice perspective to kind of go, I'm not
burned out on the core of what's important to me here.
But I got I got married and had kids, and
(42:55):
and that I mentioned the kids that came over from
Italy for for college. So we got a return favor
from those kids parents, and we lived in Italy for
a few months and we awesome. We just uh, I
don't know, but it really wasn't that long, because I
think it was only about three years before we came
back and made the Christmas record and then made you know,
(43:19):
we just sort of hovered. We were sort of back
to our indie rock status, indie rock ways, and I
don't know, trying to just again, uh, realizing the core
was still there, that that that that that was not
burned out. But uh, but then you're realizing, like, man,
(43:40):
we were on a huge wave. We probably shouldn't have
got off of it. But but that's it's all right.
You know, we'll find it back. You know, we'll find
another one.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
It's hard to well, you have to trust. You have
to trust your internal guidance system. You know, if your
internal guidance system is shutting down saying we need a break,
this isn't working, then you know it's not going to
probably be good. If you keep pushing it, something's gonna crack, right. Yeah,
So do you guys now that you have had this
(44:08):
time to have this introspective thought about your band, your success,
your impact. It's been twenty five years since kiss Me
came out. Now you are coming back, you know, putting
out the album. You added the Tide to it, which
is an amazing new song. You are going back on tour.
Would you embrace another rocket ship moment? Like would you
(44:29):
embrace being on the top of the Mountain again on
that level or is it more just like this is
what is in your heart and you want to go
out there and just play music as six minutes then
the richer and like remind, give people, give the people
what they want. Like, what is the goal now that
you've had all this time and all this life and
all this music and success and experiences. I think just what.
Speaker 5 (44:51):
It was from the very beginning for me just to
just do it, just keep doing it, make more music,
and then do.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
We have a goal, like a final goal? Has there
ever been an ultimate goal? No? Is there for you?
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Well? Well, I mean to just answer your your first thing. Uh,
we didn't. We didn't have social media when we were
doing all that, so it was uh.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
Nice, you know right, Yeah, it's like a whole new
job on top of it.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
It's nice. But like I have found that when she
when she starts posting things about the past and the
band and old records, it gets mirrored back to you.
You can you can see it all across the world.
People like this music was really important to me, it's
really special. It meant this to me. So uh, I
(45:41):
think I think it's like what like you said, that
was the original goal and it comes full circle.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
And uh, was the goal ever money and fame or
is that just a byproduct?
Speaker 1 (45:51):
I mean, naive teenagers probably were thinking that way the
the that's nice to have, but from the beginning, I
don't know if that was pus. I don't know, but.
Speaker 5 (46:02):
I've never been very I don't like attention. I don't
like people looking at me, which is really weird because
I definitely take the wrong job, but but I do
there is.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
An element I do. I love to entertain.
Speaker 5 (46:13):
I love, you know, making people laugh, maybe making them
cry and the same show. So that doesn't sound like
somebody that doesn't like to be looked at. But I
think it's just just everyday life. I don't I you know,
I live way out, way out in the country and
we live very What.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
Do you feel when you feel that attention on you?
Speaker 5 (46:31):
Oh, like at the store or something I would be
I've had people come up, not often, I mean like
maybe twice in the last year, but like TJ Max
or the grocery store, like my local one.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
You know, when the song is playing.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Like hey, what's up?
Speaker 2 (46:47):
And I get a picture with you.
Speaker 5 (46:48):
And and it's sweet since it doesn't happen but if
it was happening all the time, like really famous people
have to deal with that stuff, I would not do well.
I feel everything, yes, But I also I think that
can be called hypervigilance, just because I'm very sensitive from
my childhood trauma.
Speaker 4 (47:06):
Oh yeah, I feel everything.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Okay, So your childhood was kind of rough. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (47:13):
I mean every everybody's got a thing, but yeah, I
definitely there's a lot of trauma. So yeah, very very empathic,
and I'm thankful for that.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
It's like super it's a superpower, and it can also
I'm super empathic too, and like it used to like
take me down, it used to debilitate me. And then
I've done so much work on myself and I'm like
that's good. Everyone's on their own journey, so you're not
here to save everyone. You just have to let people
have help where you can. But like, it's like people
are just crazy.
Speaker 4 (47:42):
I have to learn to slough it off.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
I have noticed this. So I have noticed though, And
I was actually doing the Bobby Cast with Bobby Bones
yesterday and I was telling him this because we were
talking about traumas, and I've noticed when people have childhood trauma,
everybody has trauma, Like, no one escapes trauma. But when
you have childhood trauma and you that's the first thing
you start off with, you don't realize that there's another
(48:07):
way to do life because that's you're wiring, that's what
you're born into. That's you're an innocent child. You can't
take care of yourself, You're relying on these caregivers. And
so it's like, when that's your entrance into the world,
I feel like it's in my personal opinion, I feel
like it's harder to like understand that that doesn't have
to be whole life is because that's all you know, right,
you know, when you get trauma later in your life, Okay,
(48:29):
you're like, I've lived this other life. I know that
this isn't there, This isn't my entire existence. It's a moment.
But I've had other existences that didn't feel like this,
you know, right, But when it's your first one, it's
kind of hard to understand that doesn't have to be
like that, right.
Speaker 5 (48:43):
It informs your choices about people that you choose to
be around, and you'll choose people that are familiar, and
it was really that's another huge blessing about Matt coming
around when he did. Is he's always been maybe not
I mean yeah, always like safe, safe place, safe person
for me. And so that's that's huge, and that's such
(49:06):
a formative age. And then to still have him in
my life is really great. So he wasn't a bad choice.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
Maybe that was a blessing. Maybe that was just what
you both needed, you know.
Speaker 4 (49:17):
Yeah, yeah, hopefully.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Have you been able to heal some of your childhood trauma?
Speaker 4 (49:23):
I think so.
Speaker 5 (49:24):
And I've got a like I said, my mom's around.
I have an amazing support system within my family. I
missed my dad. He passed away really young at fifty nine.
That's passed away really young as well. And why and
you were really young? I was twenty seven, but I had,
you know, had a young child when my dad passed,
(49:45):
and it was really really it was unexpected, just completely
out of the blue. So that hit me like a
ton of bricks. So I had to at that point
start working through some of the trauma because it just
all of a sudden, it's like this giant monster in
your face screaming at you, like you got to deal
with this else I'm going to swallow you.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
Yeah, what have you learned about yourself by doing this
hard work that I am. Well, I got it.
Speaker 5 (50:25):
I know it's annoying, but I always go maybe it's
not annoying, but I always go back to.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Our creator, who I believe, you.
Speaker 5 (50:33):
Know, is closer than my breath, and so I can
do all things through Christ who strengthens me. There's the Baptist.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
But I really do yeah, I really, I really.
Speaker 4 (50:46):
Do believe it.
Speaker 5 (50:46):
I don't take credit for much, you know, it's from
a higher power I do. I feel like, yeah, something
went well, it's not really generally because of me. But
of course I can make good. I'm the vessel if
I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. And sometimes
I have not been doing what I've been you know,
probably supposed to be doing.
Speaker 4 (51:06):
But but yeah, that's my goal, is.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
To be in alignment with your calling right and your purpose.
That would be good for it, that would be really good.
Speaker 4 (51:15):
I'm trying.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
Yeah, that's awesome. You know. All we can do is try,
you know, all we can do is try. And like
we all are born into life with like a set
of circumstances, some super traumatic Then when you have all
this life debris that you have to sort through and
just like I was. My husband and I've been talking
about this light lately because we're like just in the
big middle of it. We have a four year old,
we're in the middle of careers, in the middle of
(51:37):
just like life. Friends are getting divorced, people are dying,
things are changing, like everyone's having kids. Like the world
feels like it's on fire. It's like what is happening here?
But it's honestly, it's like you're born into this game
of life with no rule book and certain caregivers, and
then you just have to like figure out what you're
drawn to, what your talents are. You just have to
like feel your way through this existence by trusting your intuition,
(52:00):
which in my opinion is God. And then you look
to guides, you look to books, you look to teachers,
but you have to piece the whole thing together. It's
like the biggest craziest experiment game you could ever play.
And we're all doing it right, you know, and trying
to figure out how to do it well and correctly,
and we are blundering all over the place. And then
(52:21):
you have to, like, you know, it's just so much.
Now you get a massive platform and people are like
looking to you, guys as like inspiration as you look
to your books, you know, like people look to you
guys like for answers because you have these songs that
move them. It's just crazy. The whole human experience is wild.
Speaker 4 (52:40):
It is, It really is, and it is.
Speaker 5 (52:42):
And I'll reiterate what a blessing it is to be
able to be the you know, the front woman of
this band, because I know that's one thing about myself
that gives me a lot of I don't know, just courage,
extra courage is that this I'm I'm here for this job.
And I know in a band I will be I
(53:04):
will be there with that hug or that conversation that
might mean something after the show, and I will be
there on that stage and I will give it my all.
And that's what I know about me. I am a
hard worker and I love this.
Speaker 4 (53:19):
I love music. That's what I know about me.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
It's interesting to see too, talking about her dad, because
her dad was such a huge music fan and was
so really wanted that for you, I mean, so it
was amazing for him to see that. But the way
that like so I mean, for that first record, that
was sort of me processing my dad passing away, and
(53:44):
then you've kind of worked and built all these skills
and then when your dad goes, you have this ability
to express. It's a great outlet, you know, and wrote
some beautiful music about that. And then Lee's husband, Stephen
Wilson Junior, he's got a new record.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
He's a great musician and it's.
Speaker 1 (54:04):
It's all it's all born out of him losing a
father and wow. So it's interesting kind of.
Speaker 2 (54:09):
See these because his album is called Son of a Father,
Son of Dad Dad, and his father passed away at
fifty nine too, and that was my father in law,
so he was, you know, Big Steve. He was my
dad too and I loved him very much.
Speaker 5 (54:24):
So it was Yeah, it's been a it's been a
tough five years, but it's been really wonderful to see
Stephen go through his grieving journey and create this incredible album.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
Yeah, that's so amazing. It's like alchemy, you know, when
you have this experience that hits you, that's so painful,
and then to have an outlet like you guys have
to turn this pain, to transform it within yourself and
to turn it into music that can then heal you
and others. I mean that is truly, it is alchemy,
and it's a gift and it's using. I think that's
(54:55):
the point. See, I'm getting alleary about it because I
think that's the whole point of this life is to
figure out. We're all struggling, we all don't know how
to do it, we're all having pain, we're all like
hitting these moments that we need help navigating. And it's like,
oh my god, this person makes me feel seen. Make
this music makes me feel heard, This makes me feel
not alone, This makes everything feel happy, This makes me
(55:16):
feel joy. It's we have to have it, you know,
And but somebody has to transmute those feelings into the
songs so those of us who don't can understand and
have something to like lock into when we're in those moments.
Speaker 5 (55:29):
Right right, Yeah, Music is one It's one way to
do it. And there's you're doing what You're having these
beautiful conversations with people, and you've had a beautiful journey
in music that doesn't it ends wherever you want it to.
You keep going forever. And that's kind of what I
think we intend to do. Just do it so we
can't do it anymore.
Speaker 2 (55:49):
So how what are we excited about most about this
re release? And then we'll wrap up? Tell me, yeah,
tell me, tell me what's on the horizon. How we
feel about doing the big it's like twenty five years,
it's a moment, you know, this like a golden anniversary
of Kissed Me and you're re releasing the record, adding
a new song, going on tour. What are y'all most
excited about right now?
Speaker 1 (56:11):
Yeah? I well, I multiple things. I mean, I mean,
the it's exciting to me that a re release is
always exciting because it just sort of means, like what
you did all those years ago still has value, still
still matters. That's I mean, that's major fuel to keep going.
I don't I can't think of anything better. So that's
(56:34):
very exciting to me. I think making new music with
like a long like a long term plan is exciting.
And I think just in general, starting to play shows
again because I think you forget how much you miss
it maybe in a way. And we we did a
(56:56):
tour in the fall le and I sort of subbed
in with this band ten thousand Maniacs. Oh yeah, and
we hadn't really toured together like that and a long time,
and we were in a support role, you know, but man,
it just felt amazing too. And they're like five hundred
six hundred see places and it was just so much fun.
Speaker 2 (57:18):
You guys show love of the music and the exercise.
Speaker 4 (57:21):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (57:22):
The hugs, yeah, I love the hugs, I know.
Speaker 1 (57:24):
So anyway, get to get to do it again. As
as as a band, Uh, I'm really excited about that.
I hope people buy tickets and come.
Speaker 5 (57:32):
I know, but and with fresh eyes I think you
just said that, but with fresh perspective from you know,
age and hopefully wisdom.
Speaker 2 (57:40):
How what truly what a great gift this is to be.
Speaker 5 (57:43):
Able to give, And yeah, I just want to give
it until until I can't no more.
Speaker 2 (57:48):
I have three questions and we can just answer sort
of quickly. First off, tell me each of y'all a
bucket list moment that you experienced, Because not everyone gets
to have a top song in the world that is
in every movie, every hit TV show and people screaming
your names and like obsessed with this song across the world.
Most people don't have that moment. So when you were
in that moment, what was a bucket list thing that
(58:10):
happened that you didn't even know was a bucketless item.
Speaker 4 (58:12):
I have to meet Guy Clark.
Speaker 2 (58:14):
Okay, how was that? Okay, oh so that's the one
for you. Yes, but you have someone else tattooed on
your arm. It's Aaron Neville. Yeah, okay, so I would
think Hue I met him too, because did you have
the tattoo yet? No, you're like Aaron. I think I
was a big baby.
Speaker 4 (58:31):
We were in New.
Speaker 2 (58:32):
Orleans, Metior heroes has not been bad for you.
Speaker 5 (58:34):
I had to meet Phil Collins too. Holy cow, that
was insane.
Speaker 2 (58:38):
But yeah I would. I would say Guy Clark, he's
my songwriting hero. Okay, okay, bucket list moment for you?
Speaker 1 (58:46):
Well, I I mean I got to say all the
late night TV stuff was was amazing, probably in particular
Conan because uh, well Letterman two. You just growing up
as a kid watching those things, you know, on the
weekends that that was a huge moment.
Speaker 2 (59:03):
And then actually being the one on them.
Speaker 1 (59:05):
Yeah, that was a big deal. Yeah, yeah, that's probably
a big one for me.
Speaker 2 (59:11):
What is the secret to having longevity as a band?
Speaker 4 (59:17):
I don't think we're there ones.
Speaker 2 (59:20):
Because you have it.
Speaker 5 (59:21):
I suppose just an appreciation for what you have and
don't don't take it for granted.
Speaker 4 (59:25):
And if you do, then move on do something else.
Because the world needs.
Speaker 2 (59:30):
Light, Yes it does. Yes, here is we can get it.
So the world does need light. That's that's the goal here.
You have light to give it is it is our
duty to give it. I actually I view it like
that more now, because like I have no idea what
I'm trying to do or where I'm trying to go
with any of this at all. But I'm also just
like I know, I'm trying to put light in the world.
Speaker 4 (59:50):
You are, and.
Speaker 2 (59:51):
That's what we have to do because so many people
are trying to put dark in the world and if
we don't put light in the world, then we're gonna
get swallowed by darkness. But here we are light workers,
so that's amazing.
Speaker 4 (01:00:03):
Yeah, So just spreading light, that's my mission.
Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
What do you think the secret to a band staying together?
Obviously I've had seasons, but like the longevity of like
being able to come back and tour and still appreciate
each other.
Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
And yeah, I mean I think you mentioned the empathic
side of yourself. If you can get in touch with
that and like sort of always be looking at what
it's like to be and the other guy she's got.
That goes a long way. I think that would avoid
a lot of typical fights and things that happened, and
(01:00:38):
just trying to keep that spirited community and sharing going
and not being territorial. Really, I mean, these are all
things that we've done that have that have you know,
caused a lot of issues. But looking back, just look
look at the other guy what he's feeling, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
So wise, it profound. Yeah, all these practices like these
ancient and practices from like God and you know, Christianity
or whatever, even spiritual practice people tune into. They're rude.
They're there to protect us. They're there too, but you
have to get above her ego. It's so hard, you know,
it's so hard to like think about the other person,
to calm down, to not get triggered. You know. It's
(01:01:18):
like it's such a practice in mental maturity. But y'all
are so wise. Y'all have the most humble rock stars
I've ever met.
Speaker 5 (01:01:24):
I think I think it might start with the we
don't think we're rock stars at all. That's probably what
it is. But I mean I'm trying like slip and
slip into my main character. You're totally these nails, but
this is not me.
Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Y'all are total rock stars.
Speaker 4 (01:01:40):
Thank you, you're a rock star.
Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
Well, okay, I always wrap up with leave your Light,
and it's super open ended. But you've had an amazing life.
You've had such a cool journey that you found your
dream so young. I always find that so amazing when
someone finds their dream young, because we're all looking for
our dreams and sometimes it takes people a long time.
Sometimes they never it. So when you know you've had
this dream and it happened, and you know you work
(01:02:03):
so hard and then you've got all these moments and
you got the success and you got what you dreamed
of and more probably you've lived so much life. You've
had such a connection with so many people. You've seen
the world, You've had just like a lot of incredible experiences.
What do you want people to know? Just open end it,
just to leave some some inspiration for people. What do
(01:02:24):
you want them to know? Well, from my from.
Speaker 5 (01:02:27):
My faith perspective, and it really I listened to and
read I do read some tick not Han and I
love Richard Rohrer.
Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
I went to his convention, oh says the first half
of your life is like like your your understanding and
you're digging through the shadows. And the next half you're
like you can actually.
Speaker 5 (01:02:46):
Living upward that book, Yeah if there, if you haven't
read that book or even listened to that Falling Upward
it is. That's so the first and second part of life.
I love that incredible.
Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
Everyone's listening is like, don't be stressed out when the
first half of your life is just kind of ye,
you're sorting through everything that.
Speaker 5 (01:03:01):
You're building that the strength of the wine skin that
the wine eventually goes into. And yeah, I think I'm
saying that right, but yeah, just these these wise teachers,
and I got to include my mom.
Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
But I would just say that just.
Speaker 5 (01:03:19):
She always tells me say your prayers and do the
next thing, and don't make yourself, I mean, don't overinflate yourself.
We're all like, you know the Methuselah tree and out west,
I've never seen it.
Speaker 4 (01:03:32):
Have you seen it?
Speaker 5 (01:03:33):
It's like thousands and thousands of years old, And I
watched a guy walk around it the other day doing
a talk.
Speaker 4 (01:03:38):
I'm sorry I didn't let you answer.
Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
Just no, anyway, it's old as hell.
Speaker 5 (01:03:44):
And he was walking around the tree and he he
was just basically as he walked around and just saying,
this tree is still going to be here when you're gone.
Just keep that in mind, like the things that you
worry about and focus on, you know, make sure it's
something worth focus sing on.
Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
I love that. Yeah, that's good, thank you, leave it
drop it for us.
Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
Matt All right, Well, I referenced that Rick Rubin book
while ago, and I'm just getting a lot out of
it right now. But I think one of the things
I read this morning, he was saying, uh, it's it's uh, really,
it's all about what you have to give to the
world is your point of view, how you filter things
(01:04:25):
and see things. It's it's don't get so fixated on
you know, how well you have your technical skills or
your or your you know, the business side or whatever.
Really what people want and the thing that you can
give is your is your filter and perspective. And everybody
can do that. So I keep we keep thinking like,
(01:04:49):
what why are people connecting with this? And they still
are and it's really just we're basically just trying to
be ourselves and give our point of view. And that's
it's a lot harder than and it sounds, but I
think it's like really liberating for people to hear and
whatever they're doing. It's it takes the pressure off.
Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
I guess, just be you as true as you can because.
Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
That's what that's essentially what other people want, you know,
at the end of the day.
Speaker 5 (01:05:13):
Yeah, yeah, Otherwise there's just it's a shell that you're
presenting exactly authenticity.
Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
I love that. I love that. Okay, will you guys
stick around for a few little burning questions? I do
a little bonus episode. It's real quick where we answer
some burning questions. Of course, as you know, especially if
they're burning, we got to burn it up. Okay, thank
y'all so much for joining me. It was truly an
honor to get to talk to you guys too. Y'all
have impacted me on such a big level. And to
get sit here and hear your heart and your story
and your journey and connect with you was amazing. So everyone,
(01:05:41):
you'll go check out sixpence now they're richer, they're back
on tour, they have an album coming out. When's the album?
Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
We're doing. We just recorded some new songs, recorded some
new songs and that shall be coming soon, so stay tuned, tuned.
It is the album out though the anniversary album is out,
so go grab that with a new song.
Speaker 4 (01:06:00):
I mean, it's so good.
Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
I'm so happy you are like burning up the roads
again and touring and getting out there need and Taylor
Swift shall be calling soon. I can't wait see you
on the Air's tour. Y'all are the best. Thank you
so thank you. Hi
Host
Caroline Hobby
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