April 19, 2023 • 22 mins
Ben Garthwaite serves as CEO of Fors Marsh and guides the company’s business growth and diversification. He cultivates a purpose-driven culture focused on using business as a force for good, with the belief that businesses must share responsibility for strengthening the systems in which we operate. Over Ben’s tenure, Fors Marsh has grown from 20 employees and $5M in revenue to more than 400 employees with annual revenues exceeding $100M. Prior to joining Fors Marsh, he spent a decade in the technology industry supporting and leading programs serving military personnel and their families.
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(00:00):
Change is the main subject today onCEOs. You should know Phoenix Alli.
My name is Rob Hunter. Ifyou're like me, you've ben through plenty
of personal changes, some force,some on purpose. You understand that change
is quite the challenging endeavor. Changingyourself is incredibly hard. Changing the world
is that much harder. But changeswhat forres Marsh specializes in. So today
(00:23):
we talk to CEO Ben Garthwaite aboutthe massive issues that his company researches in
hopes of making the country and theworld that much better. For CEO,
Ben Garthwaite is working on the mostcomplex issues like veterans, suicide, the
importance of nutrition and children, andkeeping our elections secure, but not just
(00:44):
working on those issues, working onsolutions. So I think this is a
perfect lesson of what we should bedoing here in America. So enjoy CEOs.
You should know Phoenix as Ben walksus through how to create lasting change.
And So I was born and raisedin the great state of Wisconsin and
Milwaukee. I went to school andat the University of Wisconsin, which is
(01:08):
pretty closer there in Madison, andthen came out to DC area after I've
been here ever since. All Right, we've got a badger in our midst
so look out. He's a Midwesternboy. Does that mean you're a Packer
fan too? I am? Iam. It's not exactly the year to
talk it up too much, butyou know, we have our ups and
downs over the year. You've hadsome good years though with Aaron Rodgers.
(01:30):
I know things are a little weirdright now, but you've had a lot
of good years there. He's beena lot of fun. He's never born
in Green Bay, I'll tell youthat much. When it comes to the
football team, well, listen,we're here to talk everything about Forrest Marsh
Group. And I didn't want todo this before we do anything else.
I know that you know, you'vebeen there for thirteen years and you've worked
your way up the system like alot of people doing a lot of leaders.
(01:53):
And you know, I can seeby your background and what you've done
about your attraction when it comes tothe company, and that's what I'm always
very interested. I see about whatthe company saw on you, But what
did you see in the companies saidthat I have to join this team.
Well, so you know I've beenin and around government, in community from
(02:15):
the you know, the youngest age, right. My dad was that the
Departments of Veterans Affairs gave his entirecareer service of veterans pres retired there.
My mom was a social worker andguidance counselor, so came out to the
DC area to work largely in technologysector, but with military families and personnel
(02:38):
programs. And you know, Ithink I was at a company that that
had priorities that were largely around uh, you know, traditional shareholder values making
your quarter numbers, and there wasa lot of pressure on that and I
think Force Marsh at that time wasabout twenty people, small company, but
(03:00):
the priorities were different. The prioritieswere around outcomes, and it was a
chance to go somewhere and really havea voice in building something that I believed
in. And so, yeah,that was compelling. It was a little
risky, but you know, itwas a chance to set a different trajectory.
(03:22):
Well, there's a common thread inall of our leaders and CEOs that
you just talked about, and that'staking a risk and a lot of people
have done it. If you gowith your passion and you take that chance
and roll the dice, it mightnot work out sometimes, but you know
in your case it did and that'swonderful. And I also wanted you to
speak this a little bit on thisin general terms, because I understand that
everybody's situation is different when they joineda company than moving up the ranks from
(03:45):
their passion to experience to the timingof it a little luck. But with
all that said, if you wereto impart any advice on your ascension to
CEO, what would you get buddingleaders out there to look forward to,
whether it's pitfalls or challenges. Well, I think for me it's been about
openness to growing from the first daybecause I'm I mean, I don't know
(04:09):
what percentage of the way through beingthe leader I have the potential to be.
I am, but I got along ways ahead of me as well.
And I think, you know,if there's one thing that served me
well, it is entering every day, week, month, year and saying,
Okay, how can I how canI learn? How can be a
better leader tomorrow? And you know, for me, it's been a lot
(04:30):
about it's been about the team.It's not really I mean, I my
job, as much as as anythingelse, is about representing U the organization
and making sure we're all headed inthe same direction, and we and it's
the direction that we believe in.But you know, they don't really work.
(04:51):
People don't work for me at ForestMarsh. I'm I have a rule
to play amongst that it's nowhere nearthe most critical role. Let's talk about
mission statement. What is that forForce Marsh? So we exist to bring
lasting positive change. And I admitthat is a broad, high level statement,
(05:12):
but it's an important place to start. So you know, then you
got to go from there and yougot to say, well, what kind
of change is that? And howand so so what kind of change?
We're talking about change that improves people'slives and in every instance we can we
are driving to get at past thesymptom to what are the underlying systems that
are at the route and so asmall taste to the stuff we're working on.
(05:38):
We're working on reducing suicide among ourmilitary service members. We're working on
improving absentee ballot processes and communications sothat people overseas can have their voice heard.
We're working on helping prepare individuals andcommunities for potential natural disasters and emergencies.
We're working to get more citizens todonate blood in the midst of critical
(06:00):
shortages. So that's type of stuffwe're dealing in terms of how do we
do it well. We're research firstcompanies, so research isn't all we do,
but it is absolutely at the foundationof how we approach every challenge.
So we frame that. We frameour approach as listen, act and learn.
So listen is about that evidence,right, bringing voices to the table.
(06:25):
Nothing can be done without this step, acting that community. Number of
things, policy, it can beprocessed, training, technology, A lot
of times it's communication. I thenlearned back to the evidence, you know
what worked, what didn't, Howdo we improve? Always learned? Then
I imagine when you join thirteen plusyears ago and there are only twenty people.
You know, you guys were justthat that new feeling and all the
(06:47):
ideas that you had, and Iimagine the growth has been exponential. And
as I look and I read yourgorgeous website. By the way, it's
whoever did that is that's impressive?By the way, we'll give the website
at the end. I'm sure peopleare googling already, but it is a
beautiful website. Needsy to navigate thathelping people. There are so many different
avenues to do, so I imagineyou have to say, well, we
got to pump the brakes a littlebit. Here, here are our past
(07:10):
that we're going to take, Here'swhat we want to do. Here is
my vision. So I'm curious asa leader, and there's so many different
areas that you can help people,and you just touched on several of them.
What cause you to say, wecan go in this direction, but
we have to be careful about goingin that direction with the team. Yeah,
you know, well it may seemlike it's been a rapid growth,
you know, really it's been steadyactually, and it's been a few new
(07:34):
clients every year. And what happensis once we get in and start working
with folks, they see that workingwith us is different and I We're able
to get deeper and deeper into helpingthem address and drive the outcomes if they
want to. Ben, let's talkabout your very exciting podcast that I know
as a Passion Project Empathy Effect podcast. You can hear it on the iHeart
(07:56):
podcast network. But this is agreat extension of your brand and great storytelling
that you might not get out inany other way. So please tell us
how important this podcast is and reallywhat is it all about? Oh my
gosh, yeah, empathy effect.I am the biggest fan. It's so
often I see and hear government talkedabout in public discourse, and it's from
(08:20):
politicians, and it clouds the incrediblework that's actually going on inside of government
and the inspiring people that have committedtheir careers to service. And so our
view is the more we share theirstories, their agencies, programs, and
priorities, the better opportunity is forcollaboration for better outcomes, whether that's within
(08:43):
government or with partners, greater understandingwith the public as well. So yeah,
if you list if you listen toto the podcast, I'll tell you
it's striking hearing the stories and thecommitment and yeah, it's just something I'm
really proud to be part of.And I think we're just getting started on
it um and it's it's these areuntold stories. You know, you hear
(09:07):
about government, but you don't hearfrom the folks that are doing a day
and day out and their experiences andthe passion that comes through when they speak.
It's it's moving. I could hearit in your voice band, and
I think it's important and once againthe title of the podcast Empathy Affect Podcast.
You know when we talk to radio, when we talk about podcasts or
social media, it's the same forcompanies like yours. It's an extension of
(09:31):
your brand and gives you an opportunityto tell stories you might not normally do
that in everyday life. So itmakes so much sense about why you do
it and how powerful this for allthe stories that you have to share with
people. Listen if if I can'texplain thirty seconds what we do, listen
to one of our podcasts. You'llhear how somebody's been affected and how it's
changed your life. And that makesa lot of sense. Absolutely, And
(09:52):
it's and it's about those uh,those civil servants, and they are center
stage and it's really a time tohighlight them who too often are behind the
scenes, and you know, theirmessage should be amplified. Let's talk about
the future. I know that everybody'sthinking ahead and smart people like you are
(10:13):
always thinking five ten years ahead ofthings, and we don't want to get
anything that would be proprietary or secretor anything like that. But with that
said, as you look at maybesome of the people that you're going to
help maybe some of the different facetsor directions that you and the company might
go. What are you looking forin the future the next five ten years
that could be very big for yourcompany, for your clients, but also
(10:33):
you really have your eye and earon Well, there's there are a couple
of things that I think stand outthis. We could have a long conversation
on this one. I bet wecould. I'll you know, I'll narrow
it down to a couple of things. So one I think I see us
really continue to dig in on thistopic of getting at the underlying systems.
(10:56):
You know, I'll tell you.In twenty seven, team we certified as
a b corp. And if ifyou're not familiar with that, that is
a third party certification that looks atyou the way that you balance all of
your stakeholders as a business, sonot just your shareholders, but your employees
or clients, the planet, yourcommunity, and so to us, that
(11:22):
was a huge step in the evolutionof the company and a lot of the
things that we are seeing that weare us and many others are working to
address in the world around us,whether that's substance use disorder, or it's
inequity in wealth, and income,or it's the climate emergency. These are
(11:43):
a lot of them are manmade,man made issues and their result of and
a lot of times greed. Andso for us, if we look at
the way we are operating our businessand how many others are operating their businesses
in that manner, we can getto system level change so we can avoid
(12:07):
having to do address all these oneoff topics that continue to come up as
a result of the way the systemhas been in the past. More specific
to a topic, we are goingto be deeper and deeper. In sud
We've been invested really heavily in therecovery aspects of that. What we've found
(12:30):
in our work in substanitute disorder isthat the recovery aspects of it are underinvested
in. People talk to spend ontreatment and prevention, and without the recovery
infrastructure, you have relapsed. Andso there's a lot we can do to
take what is overlooked today and bringit the resources the attention that it needs.
(12:54):
For a moll, I'm glad youtalked about that last thing. You
know, somebody explained to me severalmore months ago, because I'm passionate about
the homeless issue. I live inthe district, and I lived on the
West Coast, and it's it's blowingup in San Francisco and seat on Portland.
It really is an epidemic and nowsouthern California. And I know you're
very well over there that because it'sone of your passion projects to take care
(13:16):
of people. But it was interestinghow they explained it to me about you
know, you just can't give homelesspeople someplace to stay because a lot of
these people have mental health issues orthere's drug issues, and about cleaning them
out and how you do that,and there are so many different things before
actually getting them housing that you haveto do to take care of people that
I'm going I really didn't realize howmany layers that were involved in this.
(13:37):
And as I think of all thethings that you do, it's not simple
what you do with your team.There are layers to try to figure out
these problems, diagnose them, andthen try and improve the situation. It
just blew my head up by it. It's an incredible thing out there,
It's true, and it takes community, and it takes it takes building an
(13:58):
infantry, right, yeah, Andthese are tough. These are tough challenges
that face us, and so youknow, our view is government has a
role, nonprofits have a role,every you know, all of us is
citizens have a role. But businesshas a role too in the way that
we operate and what we do withour resources. I want to ask you
(14:20):
one more question about leadership. Youobviously are passionate about what you do.
You have a great team there.I know it's grown over the last thirteen
years as CEO. I mean,you have a plan, and I'm sure
you go over that plan, buthow do you make sure that the people
that are underneath you, whether they'remanagers, the rest of your staff,
are making sure that and I'm nottalking about do what they're told to do,
(14:43):
That's not what I'm trying to getat, but to make sure that
they're on the same page, notonly with your passion but also your ideals.
To make sure that we're on thesame page, because as you talk
about some of the different layers andthe different avenues that you're going in,
there's a lot of complex things goingon and you have to make sure that
there's communication, people are following throughexecution. I could go on and on
about that, but I'm curious aboutyour leadership, how you make sure your
(15:07):
message gets across to everybody that isexecuted correctly. First, and you talk
about the ideals and the things thatwe don't negotiate on. We have five
values that we you know, Iknow it's common in companies to see their
values on the website or something likethat, and they're there, but they're
not something that is felt by everyonein the company. I'll tell you it.
(15:31):
Towards mars. Everybody knows the valuesand we talk about them. We
do a peer awards on the valuesevery quarter when people are demonstrating nominated by
their peers for that. So thosethings are the non the goals with those
are the stakes in the ground thatwe cannot move on. And that's those
(15:52):
include you know, doing things theright way, which talks about how we
show up for our clients and it'sit's and it's things like growth mindset I
talked about. You know, I'mable to make progress in my career because
I'm not static. I am constantlythirsty to learn and grow. That is
the organizational approach. That's a teamapproach, that's individual approach. Because that's
(16:14):
something that we've put a stake inthe ground on that. So those things
are we've made that firm in termsof following through on the plans and my
vision. Really it's not my visionI am. I am a steward of
the shared vision of our leadership,and we're trying to do leadership at scale.
So you know, for me,even talking about myself doesn't feel right
(16:37):
because really what I'm talking about todayis this company and the company. You
know, you talk about CEOs,you should know. This is a company
you should know. Yes, me, not that big a deal. There's
four hundred of us, though,I like that that is well said,
Ben. I want to ask youone more question about your team. I
always ask all the leaders, especiallythe successful ones, about having access to
(16:59):
you as a CEO. I knowyou're busy, you might be traveling all
the time, you might be movingaround all the time, but it seems
like the great CEOs a lot ofsuccess allowed their people to have access to
them. Talk about that just alittle bit. Well, it's harder now
that we're all remote. We usedto be in all in the office company
and I felt like I knew prettymuch everyone in the company at that point.
(17:22):
That's changed some, But you know, we do. We do a
leadership round table with all hands everymonth. We talk about updates. I
send emails out Friday updates on kindof what's going on in the company,
so we have a good information flowand then shoot. People can submit questions
for the leadership round table. Again, my calendars open. They can schedule
(17:47):
time anytime. They can send mea chat, just like anyone else.
I don't have a executive assistant orany of that fancy stuff, one of
four hundred people. I like it, Ben, that makes sense that you
say it that way, that I'mjust a part of the team. I
might have this title, but I'mjust I'm a part of the team.
And I love that you roll thatway, and I think your employees and
(18:11):
staff loves that too. I didwant to take just a little time out
from forest March to ask you aboutcharity, because I know that it's really
important, especially for a company likeyou. You're already helping a lot of
people, so you say, howon earth are we gonna have time for
more charity? But I know thatthere are some philanthropic and charity things that
are important to you. Could youtalk a little bit about that as well.
I don't really view, at leastat Fords March, I don't view
(18:33):
philanthropy in the same way it's traditionallytalked about, right, so often that's
talked about in donating money to acause, and we do some of that.
We do something I mean personally andas a business thing more importantly as
a business because there's much more resourcingthere. We do some of that when
there's like an emergency, urgent thingsand really there's some need. But if
(18:56):
we're talking about philanthropy, in communingour resources to drive the change we want
to see in the world, wedo that probably like no other firm you've
met. We have we have adivision that is specifically set up for that
purpose that we fund with our ownresources. So I could talk about this
all day. We have inside ofthat group, we have three kind of
(19:19):
tiers of things that they take on. One is system level big investment long
range opportunities. We have two thatwe're working on right now. One is
the recovery topic we just talked abouta little while ago. We are deep
into that. The other is growingthe B corps movement. So I talk
(19:40):
to you about the system level kindof movement in the in moving to stakeholder
based capitalism. We are invested ingrowing that movement in partnership with b LAB,
which is the nonprofit that runs theprogram. Then we do short term
projects, so these are we seea need in a community, with the
with the nonprofit or on topic,We've bring our resources in to support that.
(20:02):
But the way we support that isthe way we support every project.
So we use research, we usecommunication, we use evaluation. It's not
as much we're writing a check.There's certainly resources expended, but we're doing
the things we're really good at writingchecks is and our strength delivering outcomes with
our way. We believe in doingwork. That's our strength. I love
that, Ben, You're just doingit a different way and it's very cool.
(20:25):
I did want to ask you,as we wrap up our wonderful conversation
for our listeners, if you wereto give them one takeaway that you want
them to know about fours Marsh,what would that be. I've talked,
I've talked a fair amount about anumber of topics. I think if you're
somebody who's talented and motivated and connectedto some of the things I'm saying,
(20:45):
we're hiring, check out our website. What We're always looking for upcoming talent.
If you are someone that wants apartner on these issues, you care
about any of the things up talkedabout or that are on our site,
reach out, you're you're looking fora partner, you want to, you
(21:06):
want to. We're a potential serviceprovider to you. Always good to have
a conversation. We take on smallprojects, we take on large I think
to me, you know, ultimately, if if people hear about the company
through this and they take a stepto learn more, whether that's just checking
out the podcast or checking out thewebsite, then it's a good conversation outstanding.
(21:26):
Let's give that website and also let'sgive the name of the podcast again.
Yeah, so the website is Forsmarsdot com, frs mrsh dot com
and the podcast is Empathy Effect.I know that you're very proud of too.
And before I let you go,Ben, you and I have one
thing in common. I'm sure wehave a lot more in common. But
(21:47):
when people have hired me over theyears in radio or television, they didn't
hire me on all the experience Ihad. They said, the reason I
hired you was for your passion forradio and television sports, and it really
you know, first of all,blew me away that somebody hired me for
something outside what I thought I washired for. And what it showed me
(22:07):
is that if you have passions inlife, it can take you a long
way. It can make you ahappy person, you can grow in so
many exponential ways. But the reasonwhy I'm telling the story is that your
passion comes through our zoom interview.I'm sure our listeners have heard it,
and that's why you have so muchsuccess at Forrest March. So listen.
Continues success, good luck with acontinued podcast because I know that is so
(22:30):
important in the Empathy Effect podcast,and continue success with Forrest March. It
sounds like everything is going well,but lots of room for growth and lots
of things to handle in the worldwith you and your team. Thank you
for joining us on CEOs. Youshould know we really appreciate it. Thank
you, Dennis. I appreciate theopportunity
Change is the main subject today onCEOs. You should know Phoenix Alli.
My name is Rob Hunter. Ifyou're like me, you've ben through plenty
of personal changes, some force,some on purpose. You understand that change
is quite the challenging endeavor. Changingyourself is incredibly hard. Changing the world
is that much harder. But changeswhat forres Marsh specializes in. So today
(00:23):
we talk to CEO Ben Garthwaite aboutthe massive issues that his company researches in
hopes of making the country and theworld that much better. For CEO,
Ben Garthwaite is working on the mostcomplex issues like veterans, suicide, the
importance of nutrition and children, andkeeping our elections secure, but not just
(00:44):
working on those issues, working onsolutions. So I think this is a
perfect lesson of what we should bedoing here in America. So enjoy CEOs.
You should know Phoenix as Ben walksus through how to create lasting change.
And So I was born and raisedin the great state of Wisconsin and
Milwaukee. I went to school andat the University of Wisconsin, which is
(01:08):
pretty closer there in Madison, andthen came out to DC area after I've
been here ever since. All Right, we've got a badger in our midst
so look out. He's a Midwesternboy. Does that mean you're a Packer
fan too? I am? Iam. It's not exactly the year to
talk it up too much, butyou know, we have our ups and
downs over the year. You've hadsome good years though with Aaron Rodgers.
(01:30):
I know things are a little weirdright now, but you've had a lot
of good years there. He's beena lot of fun. He's never born
in Green Bay, I'll tell youthat much. When it comes to the
football team, well, listen,we're here to talk everything about Forrest Marsh
Group. And I didn't want todo this before we do anything else.
I know that you know, you'vebeen there for thirteen years and you've worked
your way up the system like alot of people doing a lot of leaders.
(01:53):
And you know, I can seeby your background and what you've done
about your attraction when it comes tothe company, and that's what I'm always
very interested. I see about whatthe company saw on you, But what
did you see in the companies saidthat I have to join this team.
Well, so you know I've beenin and around government, in community from
(02:15):
the you know, the youngest age, right. My dad was that the
Departments of Veterans Affairs gave his entirecareer service of veterans pres retired there.
My mom was a social worker andguidance counselor, so came out to the
DC area to work largely in technologysector, but with military families and personnel
(02:38):
programs. And you know, Ithink I was at a company that that
had priorities that were largely around uh, you know, traditional shareholder values making
your quarter numbers, and there wasa lot of pressure on that and I
think Force Marsh at that time wasabout twenty people, small company, but
(03:00):
the priorities were different. The prioritieswere around outcomes, and it was a
chance to go somewhere and really havea voice in building something that I believed
in. And so, yeah,that was compelling. It was a little
risky, but you know, itwas a chance to set a different trajectory.
(03:22):
Well, there's a common thread inall of our leaders and CEOs that
you just talked about, and that'staking a risk and a lot of people
have done it. If you gowith your passion and you take that chance
and roll the dice, it mightnot work out sometimes, but you know
in your case it did and that'swonderful. And I also wanted you to
speak this a little bit on thisin general terms, because I understand that
everybody's situation is different when they joineda company than moving up the ranks from
(03:45):
their passion to experience to the timingof it a little luck. But with
all that said, if you wereto impart any advice on your ascension to
CEO, what would you get buddingleaders out there to look forward to,
whether it's pitfalls or challenges. Well, I think for me it's been about
openness to growing from the first daybecause I'm I mean, I don't know
(04:09):
what percentage of the way through beingthe leader I have the potential to be.
I am, but I got along ways ahead of me as well.
And I think, you know,if there's one thing that served me
well, it is entering every day, week, month, year and saying,
Okay, how can I how canI learn? How can be a
better leader tomorrow? And you know, for me, it's been a lot
(04:30):
about it's been about the team.It's not really I mean, I my
job, as much as as anythingelse, is about representing U the organization
and making sure we're all headed inthe same direction, and we and it's
the direction that we believe in.But you know, they don't really work.
(04:51):
People don't work for me at ForestMarsh. I'm I have a rule
to play amongst that it's nowhere nearthe most critical role. Let's talk about
mission statement. What is that forForce Marsh? So we exist to bring
lasting positive change. And I admitthat is a broad, high level statement,
(05:12):
but it's an important place to start. So you know, then you
got to go from there and yougot to say, well, what kind
of change is that? And howand so so what kind of change?
We're talking about change that improves people'slives and in every instance we can we
are driving to get at past thesymptom to what are the underlying systems that
are at the route and so asmall taste to the stuff we're working on.
(05:38):
We're working on reducing suicide among ourmilitary service members. We're working on
improving absentee ballot processes and communications sothat people overseas can have their voice heard.
We're working on helping prepare individuals andcommunities for potential natural disasters and emergencies.
We're working to get more citizens todonate blood in the midst of critical
(06:00):
shortages. So that's type of stuffwe're dealing in terms of how do we
do it well. We're research firstcompanies, so research isn't all we do,
but it is absolutely at the foundationof how we approach every challenge.
So we frame that. We frameour approach as listen, act and learn.
So listen is about that evidence,right, bringing voices to the table.
(06:25):
Nothing can be done without this step, acting that community. Number of
things, policy, it can beprocessed, training, technology, A lot
of times it's communication. I thenlearned back to the evidence, you know
what worked, what didn't, Howdo we improve? Always learned? Then
I imagine when you join thirteen plusyears ago and there are only twenty people.
You know, you guys were justthat that new feeling and all the
(06:47):
ideas that you had, and Iimagine the growth has been exponential. And
as I look and I read yourgorgeous website. By the way, it's
whoever did that is that's impressive?By the way, we'll give the website
at the end. I'm sure peopleare googling already, but it is a
beautiful website. Needsy to navigate thathelping people. There are so many different
avenues to do, so I imagineyou have to say, well, we
got to pump the brakes a littlebit. Here, here are our past
(07:10):
that we're going to take, Here'swhat we want to do. Here is
my vision. So I'm curious asa leader, and there's so many different
areas that you can help people,and you just touched on several of them.
What cause you to say, wecan go in this direction, but
we have to be careful about goingin that direction with the team. Yeah,
you know, well it may seemlike it's been a rapid growth,
you know, really it's been steadyactually, and it's been a few new
(07:34):
clients every year. And what happensis once we get in and start working
with folks, they see that workingwith us is different and I We're able
to get deeper and deeper into helpingthem address and drive the outcomes if they
want to. Ben, let's talkabout your very exciting podcast that I know
as a Passion Project Empathy Effect podcast. You can hear it on the iHeart
(07:56):
podcast network. But this is agreat extension of your brand and great storytelling
that you might not get out inany other way. So please tell us
how important this podcast is and reallywhat is it all about? Oh my
gosh, yeah, empathy effect.I am the biggest fan. It's so
often I see and hear government talkedabout in public discourse, and it's from
(08:20):
politicians, and it clouds the incrediblework that's actually going on inside of government
and the inspiring people that have committedtheir careers to service. And so our
view is the more we share theirstories, their agencies, programs, and
priorities, the better opportunity is forcollaboration for better outcomes, whether that's within
(08:43):
government or with partners, greater understandingwith the public as well. So yeah,
if you list if you listen toto the podcast, I'll tell you
it's striking hearing the stories and thecommitment and yeah, it's just something I'm
really proud to be part of.And I think we're just getting started on
it um and it's it's these areuntold stories. You know, you hear
(09:07):
about government, but you don't hearfrom the folks that are doing a day
and day out and their experiences andthe passion that comes through when they speak.
It's it's moving. I could hearit in your voice band, and
I think it's important and once againthe title of the podcast Empathy Affect Podcast.
You know when we talk to radio, when we talk about podcasts or
social media, it's the same forcompanies like yours. It's an extension of
(09:31):
your brand and gives you an opportunityto tell stories you might not normally do
that in everyday life. So itmakes so much sense about why you do
it and how powerful this for allthe stories that you have to share with
people. Listen if if I can'texplain thirty seconds what we do, listen
to one of our podcasts. You'llhear how somebody's been affected and how it's
changed your life. And that makesa lot of sense. Absolutely, And
(09:52):
it's and it's about those uh,those civil servants, and they are center
stage and it's really a time tohighlight them who too often are behind the
scenes, and you know, theirmessage should be amplified. Let's talk about
the future. I know that everybody'sthinking ahead and smart people like you are
(10:13):
always thinking five ten years ahead ofthings, and we don't want to get
anything that would be proprietary or secretor anything like that. But with that
said, as you look at maybesome of the people that you're going to
help maybe some of the different facetsor directions that you and the company might
go. What are you looking forin the future the next five ten years
that could be very big for yourcompany, for your clients, but also
(10:33):
you really have your eye and earon Well, there's there are a couple
of things that I think stand outthis. We could have a long conversation
on this one. I bet wecould. I'll you know, I'll narrow
it down to a couple of things. So one I think I see us
really continue to dig in on thistopic of getting at the underlying systems.
(10:56):
You know, I'll tell you.In twenty seven, team we certified as
a b corp. And if ifyou're not familiar with that, that is
a third party certification that looks atyou the way that you balance all of
your stakeholders as a business, sonot just your shareholders, but your employees
or clients, the planet, yourcommunity, and so to us, that
(11:22):
was a huge step in the evolutionof the company and a lot of the
things that we are seeing that weare us and many others are working to
address in the world around us,whether that's substance use disorder, or it's
inequity in wealth, and income,or it's the climate emergency. These are
(11:43):
a lot of them are manmade,man made issues and their result of and
a lot of times greed. Andso for us, if we look at
the way we are operating our businessand how many others are operating their businesses
in that manner, we can getto system level change so we can avoid
(12:07):
having to do address all these oneoff topics that continue to come up as
a result of the way the systemhas been in the past. More specific
to a topic, we are goingto be deeper and deeper. In sud
We've been invested really heavily in therecovery aspects of that. What we've found
(12:30):
in our work in substanitute disorder isthat the recovery aspects of it are underinvested
in. People talk to spend ontreatment and prevention, and without the recovery
infrastructure, you have relapsed. Andso there's a lot we can do to
take what is overlooked today and bringit the resources the attention that it needs.
(12:54):
For a moll, I'm glad youtalked about that last thing. You
know, somebody explained to me severalmore months ago, because I'm passionate about
the homeless issue. I live inthe district, and I lived on the
West Coast, and it's it's blowingup in San Francisco and seat on Portland.
It really is an epidemic and nowsouthern California. And I know you're
very well over there that because it'sone of your passion projects to take care
(13:16):
of people. But it was interestinghow they explained it to me about you
know, you just can't give homelesspeople someplace to stay because a lot of
these people have mental health issues orthere's drug issues, and about cleaning them
out and how you do that,and there are so many different things before
actually getting them housing that you haveto do to take care of people that
I'm going I really didn't realize howmany layers that were involved in this.
(13:37):
And as I think of all thethings that you do, it's not simple
what you do with your team.There are layers to try to figure out
these problems, diagnose them, andthen try and improve the situation. It
just blew my head up by it. It's an incredible thing out there,
It's true, and it takes community, and it takes it takes building an
(13:58):
infantry, right, yeah, Andthese are tough. These are tough challenges
that face us, and so youknow, our view is government has a
role, nonprofits have a role,every you know, all of us is
citizens have a role. But businesshas a role too in the way that
we operate and what we do withour resources. I want to ask you
(14:20):
one more question about leadership. Youobviously are passionate about what you do.
You have a great team there.I know it's grown over the last thirteen
years as CEO. I mean,you have a plan, and I'm sure
you go over that plan, buthow do you make sure that the people
that are underneath you, whether they'remanagers, the rest of your staff,
are making sure that and I'm nottalking about do what they're told to do,
(14:43):
That's not what I'm trying to getat, but to make sure that
they're on the same page, notonly with your passion but also your ideals.
To make sure that we're on thesame page, because as you talk
about some of the different layers andthe different avenues that you're going in,
there's a lot of complex things goingon and you have to make sure that
there's communication, people are following throughexecution. I could go on and on
about that, but I'm curious aboutyour leadership, how you make sure your
(15:07):
message gets across to everybody that isexecuted correctly. First, and you talk
about the ideals and the things thatwe don't negotiate on. We have five
values that we you know, Iknow it's common in companies to see their
values on the website or something likethat, and they're there, but they're
not something that is felt by everyonein the company. I'll tell you it.
(15:31):
Towards mars. Everybody knows the valuesand we talk about them. We
do a peer awards on the valuesevery quarter when people are demonstrating nominated by
their peers for that. So thosethings are the non the goals with those
are the stakes in the ground thatwe cannot move on. And that's those
(15:52):
include you know, doing things theright way, which talks about how we
show up for our clients and it'sit's and it's things like growth mindset I
talked about. You know, I'mable to make progress in my career because
I'm not static. I am constantlythirsty to learn and grow. That is
the organizational approach. That's a teamapproach, that's individual approach. Because that's
(16:14):
something that we've put a stake inthe ground on that. So those things
are we've made that firm in termsof following through on the plans and my
vision. Really it's not my visionI am. I am a steward of
the shared vision of our leadership,and we're trying to do leadership at scale.
So you know, for me,even talking about myself doesn't feel right
(16:37):
because really what I'm talking about todayis this company and the company. You
know, you talk about CEOs,you should know. This is a company
you should know. Yes, me, not that big a deal. There's
four hundred of us, though,I like that that is well said,
Ben. I want to ask youone more question about your team. I
always ask all the leaders, especiallythe successful ones, about having access to
(16:59):
you as a CEO. I knowyou're busy, you might be traveling all
the time, you might be movingaround all the time, but it seems
like the great CEOs a lot ofsuccess allowed their people to have access to
them. Talk about that just alittle bit. Well, it's harder now
that we're all remote. We usedto be in all in the office company
and I felt like I knew prettymuch everyone in the company at that point.
(17:22):
That's changed some, But you know, we do. We do a
leadership round table with all hands everymonth. We talk about updates. I
send emails out Friday updates on kindof what's going on in the company,
so we have a good information flowand then shoot. People can submit questions
for the leadership round table. Again, my calendars open. They can schedule
(17:47):
time anytime. They can send mea chat, just like anyone else.
I don't have a executive assistant orany of that fancy stuff, one of
four hundred people. I like it, Ben, that makes sense that you
say it that way, that I'mjust a part of the team. I
might have this title, but I'mjust I'm a part of the team.
And I love that you roll thatway, and I think your employees and
(18:11):
staff loves that too. I didwant to take just a little time out
from forest March to ask you aboutcharity, because I know that it's really
important, especially for a company likeyou. You're already helping a lot of
people, so you say, howon earth are we gonna have time for
more charity? But I know thatthere are some philanthropic and charity things that
are important to you. Could youtalk a little bit about that as well.
I don't really view, at leastat Fords March, I don't view
(18:33):
philanthropy in the same way it's traditionallytalked about, right, so often that's
talked about in donating money to acause, and we do some of that.
We do something I mean personally andas a business thing more importantly as
a business because there's much more resourcingthere. We do some of that when
there's like an emergency, urgent thingsand really there's some need. But if
(18:56):
we're talking about philanthropy, in communingour resources to drive the change we want
to see in the world, wedo that probably like no other firm you've
met. We have we have adivision that is specifically set up for that
purpose that we fund with our ownresources. So I could talk about this
all day. We have inside ofthat group, we have three kind of
(19:19):
tiers of things that they take on. One is system level big investment long
range opportunities. We have two thatwe're working on right now. One is
the recovery topic we just talked abouta little while ago. We are deep
into that. The other is growingthe B corps movement. So I talk
(19:40):
to you about the system level kindof movement in the in moving to stakeholder
based capitalism. We are invested ingrowing that movement in partnership with b LAB,
which is the nonprofit that runs theprogram. Then we do short term
projects, so these are we seea need in a community, with the
with the nonprofit or on topic,We've bring our resources in to support that.
(20:02):
But the way we support that isthe way we support every project.
So we use research, we usecommunication, we use evaluation. It's not
as much we're writing a check.There's certainly resources expended, but we're doing
the things we're really good at writingchecks is and our strength delivering outcomes with
our way. We believe in doingwork. That's our strength. I love
that, Ben, You're just doingit a different way and it's very cool.
(20:25):
I did want to ask you,as we wrap up our wonderful conversation
for our listeners, if you wereto give them one takeaway that you want
them to know about fours Marsh,what would that be. I've talked,
I've talked a fair amount about anumber of topics. I think if you're
somebody who's talented and motivated and connectedto some of the things I'm saying,
(20:45):
we're hiring, check out our website. What We're always looking for upcoming talent.
If you are someone that wants apartner on these issues, you care
about any of the things up talkedabout or that are on our site,
reach out, you're you're looking fora partner, you want to, you
(21:06):
want to. We're a potential serviceprovider to you. Always good to have
a conversation. We take on smallprojects, we take on large I think
to me, you know, ultimately, if if people hear about the company
through this and they take a stepto learn more, whether that's just checking
out the podcast or checking out thewebsite, then it's a good conversation outstanding.
(21:26):
Let's give that website and also let'sgive the name of the podcast again.
Yeah, so the website is Forsmarsdot com, frs mrsh dot com
and the podcast is Empathy Effect.I know that you're very proud of too.
And before I let you go,Ben, you and I have one
thing in common. I'm sure wehave a lot more in common. But
(21:47):
when people have hired me over theyears in radio or television, they didn't
hire me on all the experience Ihad. They said, the reason I
hired you was for your passion forradio and television sports, and it really
you know, first of all,blew me away that somebody hired me for
something outside what I thought I washired for. And what it showed me
(22:07):
is that if you have passions inlife, it can take you a long
way. It can make you ahappy person, you can grow in so
many exponential ways. But the reasonwhy I'm telling the story is that your
passion comes through our zoom interview.I'm sure our listeners have heard it,
and that's why you have so muchsuccess at Forrest March. So listen.
Continues success, good luck with acontinued podcast because I know that is so
(22:30):
important in the Empathy Effect podcast,and continue success with Forrest March. It
sounds like everything is going well,but lots of room for growth and lots
of things to handle in the worldwith you and your team. Thank you
for joining us on CEOs. Youshould know we really appreciate it. Thank
you, Dennis. I appreciate theopportunity
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