July 21, 2024 • 37 mins
This week on Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier discuss Ardie Savea's bombshell Super Rugby switch from the Hurricanes to Moana Pasifika and the implications for him as well as both franchises before we dig into the All Blacks third test of the year against Fiji in San Diego.
We also rank the All Blacks halfbacks, discuss the chances of gold medals for the sevens sides at the Olympics and whether the NZ U20s finishing third is a positive result, as well as an assessment of Wallabies coach Joe Schmidt and Japan coach Eddie Jones' starts to their tenures.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
this and our wide range of podcast now on Iheartradiot, Inside.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
The Game from every angle.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
It's Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Welcome in to Rugby Direct, powered by Excess Solutions, elevating
you and your business to a higher level. My name
is Elligant Smith, chief rugby commentator for News Talk z'd
be alongside me as well is Liam Napier, chief sports
writer rugby correspondent for The New Zealand Herald. Liam, there
are some important things to dig into, but perhaps something
more important than a potential rift in the Rugby Direct
(00:48):
ranks around popcorn and going to the movies and shock
revelation from myself offline just before we hit record that
I'm the hugest of popcorn fans at the movies.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I don't have too many rules in life, Elliott.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
For one of those is that you must say popcorn
when you go to the movies.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
So yeah, you pretty much did to me.
Speaker 5 (01:07):
Mate saw the movie.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
We went to the Bike Riders yesterday just to inform
Liam I didn't take any popcorn and he was heartbroken. Anyway,
on to much more important matters. Let's get into the
week that was in rugby, and the biggest story probably
in Super Rugby transfer history is Ardie Savilla moving from
the Hurricanes to Mowana Pacifica. And the fact that's probably
(01:29):
just been brushed over a little bit is that he's
resigned with New Zealand Rugby through until twenty twenty seven.
But Liam, you broke this breakfast time on Friday morning,
two and a half days before it was official, and
look a huge story, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
It is?
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Indeed, as you mentioned Earliert, I guess right up there
with Joan Loomu going to the Hurricanes, Boden Barrett coming
to the Blues, I guess you know Marlono and Andrew
Ware moving from Wellington to Dunedin. Hand as it didn't
go so well do it. But look, this is Matt Massive.
It's instant credibility for Moana Pacifica. It's gonna not necessarily
(02:10):
turn their fortunes around overnight, but if you think about
the gravitas that it brings the other potential players that
may be looking at going to that franchise, everything around
sponsorship and luring eyeballs is huge for that franchise and
like you say, already going through to the twenty twenty
(02:31):
seven world cover. I don't think there were ever any
doubts around that, but to have that cleared up, to
have him locked in is massive for the All Blacks
as well.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
What's your understanding of why he's going to Mauna Pacifica
because he's been very loyal to the Hurricanes for a
number of years now. Obviously his brother plays at Mouna Pacifica.
How much did that play in his signing with Maua Pacifica.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Look, I think there's a number of different factors involved here.
Julian's presence is certainly a big one. They are an
extremely tight family that as they're also very proud of
their Polynesian heritage. Heritage, so ARTI's spoken openly over at
a number of different points in his career of a
desire to represent that heritage, and this is one way
(03:18):
where he can do that. It's fairly unlikely given he's
thirty years old now, you know, this next contract will
take him through until he's thirty three. He'd then have
to do a sort of three year stand down to
represent Snamo, So that's unlikely. So this is his chance
to represent that heritage, So that's a factor. I think
(03:41):
he probably also, you know, wants a new challenge. Going
to Japan was refreshing, going to Muana and having a
real influence there that that's a factor. Probably seeing what's
happened at the Hurricanes while he was away and the
way those loose forwards really stood up, what was a factor?
I think my understanding is that Jordi Barrett is actually
(04:03):
the highest played player at the Hurricanes, and so whether
that was a factor, I'm not sure could have thrown
a huge amount more money at Ardi, but I think
they probably could have to a degree, and I think, yeah,
at the stage of his career maybe Also I don't
(04:24):
know this for a fact, but I know Julian and
Ardi are very tight, and Julian wasn't happy about the
way that things played out at the Hurricanes with him
not being part of Clark Glade Law's Hurricanes future. So
maybe that was a potential factor as well.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
Yeah, quite possibly for me.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
I look at it and go, you're right, instant credibility
factor for more Wana pacifica and getting Ardie Savia across
the line and his magnetism.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
I suppose is.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
You know, it automatically gives that franchise credibility, but his
signature could bring others to be involved as well. Your
reporter that Via Fafita is looking likely to join more
Ona Pacifica, but there's other players as well that maybe
their Artie factor between if they have to choose between franchises,
could well see them for more on the Pacifica and
(05:17):
especially if they got Pacific Island heritage. This all of
a sudden becomes do I say that no longer a
team of players that are not good enough for the
other Super Rugby franchises, but one that aspires for success
under Ardie Savia and with Artie Savia.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
And if you think about guys like Liva Armor and
Tava Tavanawa, those guys I would go as far to say,
don't leave Mina Pacifica if Artie severe is there. Last year,
those were two shining lights for Minus Pacifica and it
was a real kick in the guts to see them
go elsewhere to further their careers. Liba Armor not a
(05:53):
great success at the Crusaders, but he went there because
he saw his future pathway, as you know, providing a
pathway through to the All Backs better and the Crusaders
than Miana. So Artie's present could change that, he could
lure more people there. And the other fact that I
didn't mention before was tana Umanger. He was a huge
(06:19):
driving factor in Ardi going Turmnor. I know he met
with him at Wellington. Tana and Tom Coventry have had
a real positive impact in improving standards at Wana last year.
I know they only won four or fourteen games and
finished second last, but their overall competitiveness throughout that season
(06:39):
lifted dramatically, didn't it. And so tana Umanger, the first
Polynesian All Black captain, his great minor and I think
his presence was huge in luring Ardi to Auckland.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Let's talk about the Hurricanes, because now they've lost Ardie Sava,
the running wheel Player of the Year. They lost Botien
Barrett through different circumstances as well in twenty nineteen. For
twenty twenty, can we linked the two and is there
a sign of a bigger issue at the Hurricanes that
they can't retain players that have won multiple World Player
(07:16):
of the Years titles.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
I don't think they Boden's transfer an Ardia intrinsically linked.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Boden moved to Auckland because.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
His wife is from Auckland's and their family wanted to move,
and the Blues could offer him exponentially more money through
their third party sponsorships. So I think also break the
teams are to a degree behind the Blues and what
they can offer financially. But look, there's no doubt despite
the Hurricanes' depth in their loose forwards that losing Artie
(07:48):
severe as a body blow, they.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Would have wanted to retain him.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
All the noises were that he was going back to
the Hurricanes, and clearly there's been a bit of a
breakdown there because Artie's a pin up guy, isn't he
spoke before about From a sponsorship perspective, you know you
can guarantee that at Mine and he's going to be
plastered all over their promotional material, their season memberships, even
though they don't actually have a home right now. So
(08:14):
he's a guy that you can really sell from a
public perspective, and he's one of your first names on
the team suit. So there's no doubt that the Hurricanes
wanted him back, expected him back, and I think they'd
be very disappointed to lose him, so I think internally
there probably are a few questions being asked about how
(08:34):
this has happened. And you know, reigning World Player of
the Year, there's not too many other people you'd want.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
In your ranks.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
No, there isn't a couple more questions, I guess on
this topic before we move on. I guess I've saw
a couple of suggestions last night that you know, Richie
mo Wolo could be next to join him, given he's
looking to come back to New Zealand. From my understanding,
if he comes back, it'll be with the Crusaders, and
(09:03):
I just don't see him going to Mona Pacifica. There's
all sorts of family reasons, et cetera, that it will
go back to to christ Church with family, so that
won't happen. But as you touched on, a major opportunity
now for Wuana Pacifica, who we've asked the question a
couple of times on this podcastle around their future and
where they go to there, As it always is in
(09:23):
the rugby world, there are whispers and things going on.
From what I heard, the financial situation at Mojuana wasn't great,
but that's never sort of come totally to light. So
you take it at you know, face value that Mourana
is continuing.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
I guess with the rebels as well.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
That was the question asked around where the Mowana could
survive too, But this could you know, this is as
you said, sponsorship wise, this is going to be a
major boost for a franchise that has struggled to find
a foothold.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
It is a major step in the right direction. It
doesn't solve everything behind the scenes. About a month ago
Mourana were actually sold to a pacifica medical group and
they involved them replacing their boards, So there has been
major changes behind the scenes there. That does provide a
(10:12):
lot of financial security to a degree. But look, this
is still a team without a home base, and that's
such a major factor in building fans because how do
you sell season memberships if you're playing in fungod Aid,
Mount Smart, Hamilton and Tonga all over the show really,
so that's a big thing for them to sort out
(10:35):
in the coming weeks. Hopefully they can lock down a base.
I don't know if they maybe look at Pookakoe and
Counties somewhere like that, but look, there's no doubt that
getting Artie does really put them on the map instant credibility.
The only other question I have for you that does
need to be addressed is this team is meant to
provide a pathway for players back to Samoa and Tonga
(10:59):
in particular with the Fijian Dura providing that pathway for
that team. You know, there's a lot of talk about
signing and all black and he's not going to play
for some or what's your read on that? And I
guess in the overall context of the purpose of Wina Pacifica.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
You know what, I think this is actually the best
thing to make that happen. In all honesty, I think
getting a player like Ardie Sava is, as we've touched on,
you know, is more likely to get those signatures of
players looking to play for some more and Tonger, especially
the bigger name players that are currently maybe playing in
Europe or abroad elsewhere, to get that signature across the line.
(11:38):
Ardie Sava is that kind of player. They're allowed what
three all blacks or three non some more and tong
and qualifying players on their books Previously, I think they
used a couple of English players this year, or they
did use a couple of English players this year. This
is a much better use of that spot that they're
allowed to use.
Speaker 5 (11:56):
So for me, I think this is the ultimate move.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
And if you could see players going actually I'm thinking
about coming back to New Zealander, I'm weighing up a
contract in Japan having played for some more or Tonga.
I think that's you know, Ardie sav Is. Prisons could
definitely make that happen. So for me, no issues there
on that front. And I think let's hope that this
is a stake in the ground from one to pacifica
(12:19):
that they really been business in super rugby.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
And look, every team, every startup team basically in history,
takes time, don't they. This is Wine has had three
years and this is their biggest move on or off
the field. You know, they've had the odd upset that
they're starting to improve, but it doesn't come any bigger
in the context of global rugby really then signing the
(12:45):
world the reigning World Rugby Player of the Year, so
massive move from Miana And like you, I hope it
really is a springboard two bigger and better things and
some real stability because you know, there has been a
lot of uncertainty, and there still is to a degree,
but having a player of his status go there does provide,
(13:06):
you know, a real law for players, for fans, and
hopefully that'll translate into on field performances as well.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Indeed, let's move on to the Test that was over
the weekend, the All Blacks beating Fiji forty in San Diego. Liam,
what do we learn from that eighty minutes of rugby?
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Look, I'm not too sure. I think I was fairly
underwhelmed by Fiji. The All Blacks were vastly improved, weren't they.
But look, they didn't face the same consuming line speed,
they didn't have Maro Tog pressuring their line outs. You know,
they weren't under a huge amount of pressure throughout that match.
(13:46):
But it was a step in the right direction. It
was very pleasing to get six rookies introduced to the
Test scene and see.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Them perform so well.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
You know, there was no sign of nerves or anxiousness
there and a lot of them really did state their cases.
So I think when you take a step back, what
it did show as there is still depth in New
Zealand rugby that Scott Robinson's got some big selection headaches.
He's probably needs to be a bit more bold and brave.
(14:18):
I think he's been very conservative to start his tenure,
particularly in those first two tests against England, who were
the big standouts for you.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Billy Procter I thought was excellent, had a superb performance
and is really putting pressure now I think on Rico
yu one and it's gonna be a fascinating selection battle
for the All Blacks. And what I thought Billy Proctor's
performance did was it opened up Caleb Clark a little
bit more. We saw Caleb Clark come into the game
better than he has in previous times with the All Blacks.
(14:50):
You look at his stats, see Caleb Clark for all
his tries at super rugby level, he struggled to score
at international level and that can be for any number
of reasons. But he was I thought excellent on the
weekend and that was because Billy Procter was playing some
superb rugby inside him.
Speaker 5 (15:04):
Looked like it took like a duct to.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Water for for Test rugby, I thought Billy Procter was
excellent and Antony let it Brown as well.
Speaker 5 (15:13):
I thought had a very very good game in the midfield.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Obviously a veteran played seventy tests now or thereabouts for
the All Blacks, but just a reminder of what his
class is and what he can do. And you know,
Jordy Barrett' obviously taking that twelve jersey and rightly so
over the last couple of seasons. But Antony let it
brown and his ability to distribute but also take on
the line shouldn't be underestimated. And I think it was
(15:36):
a real sense of haircape. We've got some real good
midfield options. I think the pressure now goes on Rico
Yowanni to respond in the Rugby Championship when he gets
his chance. I guess the other one that impressed me
was not Hotham off the bench again Slidabilly Procter didn't
take long to adjust to Test rugby, just came in.
(15:56):
Wasn't expecting to get as much game time as he
did with Quartez Ratama coming off of the park, but
he slotted in really, really well, didn't overplay his hand
and just looked ready for Test rugby. So for me,
the mid field and Noah Hotham with the standouts then,
and I don't think any one of the debuhants really
put a foot wrong but I think there's a lot
to like from what we saw in terms of the
(16:18):
individual performances over the weekend, even if we didn't learn
so much maybe about the team as a whole.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
That's right, and I'm glad you mentioned anton Lena Brown
there because Billy Proctor certainly got the plaudits and rightly so.
And the big thing that he brought wasn't it was
the distribution, just the ability to set us outsides away
Chris accurate, no hesitation, and I think that's what has
been missing. You know, that's the big criticism of Rico
(16:45):
Iwani's game, that he does tend to go himself rather
than set us outsides away. So there was a bit
of a stark contrast there. But Anton Lena Brown, you
know we've spoken before about no one really in New
Zealand rugby been able to replace what Jordi Barrett brings.
But on this occasion, Antony Leaner Brown actually did that.
He was hard running, direct, you know, he was Barrett
(17:09):
and for all intensive purposes. So that was really pleasing
to see that Angelina Brown has that ability allbit against Fiji.
You touch on some of the other debuns for me
off the bench as well Wallace Tsi, Pasilio Tossi. Those
guys have big futures. Still question marks around Tossi's scrummaging
(17:30):
ability against you know, the likes of the spring box
in England and others, but just from a pure ball carrying, dynamic, youth.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Perspective, those two guys have massive futures.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
And we talked previously about Wallace Citti's ability to change
the dynamic of that loose forward trio, and I think
that's a very live conversation because both those guys off
the bench hard, direct punch up the middle, they can offload,
they've got quick feet at the line. Just their their
pure physical dynamic. It was great to see them not
(18:08):
be overruled by the occasion and really thrive. And I
think there is some really tough decisions and it's going
to be interesting to see how the All Blacks manage
that throughout the Rugby Championship, because even from a squad perspective,
there's going to be some tough conversations, aren't they.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
There are, and I think that's going to be fascinating
to see how the thirty six are put together just
before we leave the game and or just Before we
move on, I just want to say about Luke Jacobson,
who as a player that I've never felt has really
stood up at test level, but I thought was very
very good on the weekend. But it was a real
line out target for the All Blacks. They used him
a lot during that game. I thought he carried pretty
(18:46):
strongly on occasion. But I thought that was probably one
of his better tests. Luke Jacobson was so Eathian blacket
a return to the fold maybe look short of a
gallop a little bit ethan. I found his way into
the game rather later on and I thought that was
a positive sign for the All Blacks. And Sam Derry
off the bench too. I thought when they're looking for
that size and that replacement lock, he put his hand up.
(19:06):
So there's some interesting selection quandaries ahead of the Rugby Championship.
As we touched on just on Fiji, liam really disappointing
from them. They obviously were World Cup quarter finalists last year.
They are missing some of the key players through injury.
You know Levani Botti. It wasn't there a couple of
players to join the sevens as well? Do we solve
(19:29):
not there either, So they were missing some key players,
but a really limp performance from Fiji. They ran pretty
much their entire attack around Semur and Dradra and on
times it worked, but it just wasn't going to be
able to cause issues for the All Blacks over eighty minutes.
I thought defensively they were lacks at times. Yeah, just
not a great afternoon from Fiji.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
I didn't think.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
No, it was very underwhelming, wasn't it.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
Even when they did bill phases, there was so many mistakes.
It was largely predictable, and they blew one try in
the corner but never really threatened the All Blacks. Their
scrums struggled, they never put any pressure on the line out.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Yeah, they I guess you know.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
They come off a July campaign where they've been up
to London, played the Barbarians, beat Georgia and Georgia.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
They've got a new coach and Mick Burn.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
As you mentioned, they're missing a couple of players, but
certainly expected a lot more from them given what happened
last year. They knocked over England at Twickenham Australia in
the World Cup and it did really look like they'd
fallen away significantly since then.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
So let's hope that's not a sign of things to come.
I do agree.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
Look, Jacison, that was definitely his best test for the
All Blacks, and yeah, probably underwhelmed by Ethan Blackhead. He's
a bit of a cult figure, isn't he his first test?
Since I think it's November first starting tests it's November
twenty twenty one, so maybe just coming to grips of that.
He's only played five games this year, but probably expected
a little bit more from him.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Indeed, Well, the All Blacks now, of course have a
break for three weeks, so they'reabouts until they reconvene for
the side of the Rugby Championship against Argentina in Wowing
and Leah before we take a break on the first
half of that podcast. And really sad news last week
as well, the passing of Norm Hewett age fifty five,
after he was diagnosed with murder neuron disease, which is
(21:20):
worryingly now a number of players have been diagnosed with
that number of rugby players from that era, but normal
Heewitt just a wonderful presence in rugby memories of that
showdown with Richard Cockrell, but I also admired the way
that he turned himself around towards the end of his
rugby career, then afterwards his battle with the bottle, and
then turned it into just a remarkable second half. I
(21:43):
suppose you'd say with the dancing with the stars, but
the fundraising for various charities. The SPCA, I know is
involved in drugging, alcohol abuse and everything like that. He
fund raised to help those people involved in that as well.
So really really sad news and New Zealand rugby losing
a bit of an identity in the passing of Norm Puitt.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yeah, norms a bit of.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
It's hard to summon my Actually, Jamie Wall, one of
our colleagues, did a nice piece that charted I guess
that that transition that you mentioned there and comparing it
to modern rugby and its challenges and it's trying to
change its public face to a degree, and I think
Norman did that. I've got memories of them playing in
the two thousand final great one that you'll remember fondly
(22:30):
Wellington claiming the title of Norm charging into rucks with
a broken arm b of Canterbury. So nice one for
the good guys there, and look Norm, you know he
came through in an era where Unfortunately, he spent the
vast majority of his career on the bench behind the
great Shaun Fazpatrick and was then quickly sort of usurped
(22:51):
by Antonine Oliver, but in an era where substitutions aren't
what they are today. So had he been born and
come through in a different era, would have played a
lot more tests for the All Blacks. But I think,
like you say, what he did off the field is
probably almost more meaningful and in later life. And yeah,
it is a worry that players of his generation are
(23:13):
disproportionately affected by modern neuron disease and I think there's
a lot to be said for that, and there's a
lot of research going into that.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
So your thoughts with the Hewitt family.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
But I guess great to see a guy like that
turn things around and it's a bit of a lesson
to us all.
Speaker 5 (23:31):
Yeah, an impressive legacy he leaves.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
There's a certain will take a break here on Rugby Direct,
come back with the second half after this.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 5 (23:48):
Rugby Direct.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
How You're back with Rugby Direct, power By Access Solutions,
get to get into our final four for rugby topics
that Ligham and I will debate, let's rank the All
Blacks halfbacks who have played this year if they were
all fully fit now I actually probaly need to add
a caveat there that I think we both agree that
Cam Roy is in theory the number one, but he
(24:10):
hasn't been able to play. But the All Blacks have
now used four half backs this year, Liam, having seen
three tests, how would you rank the half backs as
they stand? The ones that are fit or close to being.
Fitzel include TJ Pedanar right in this conversation.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
It was probably one of the most interesting selection debates,
isn't it. And it's very much a futuristic type conversation
with a lot of youth coming through. So I've been
extremely impressed by Cortez Ratimar. He made an immediate impact
at Eden Park coming off the bench, and while he
went off what was it thirty five minutes into that
(24:48):
Test in San Diego with an hia that will keep
him out for ten days or so. He's by far
and away made the biggest impact this year, so he's
won for me. I was impressed by t J Petinara
as well. I think in his limited time he did
show his experience. He's got a great left foot composure,
(25:08):
brings size and experience from the base, So he's two
for me, no hope them.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I was impressed by him.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
I think he does still have elements of his game
that can improve, but extremely dynamic and another one who
took to test regular conduct Towater, so he's three infinite.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Christie is very much number four for me. I think
he's in danger of falling.
Speaker 6 (25:32):
Out of the pack, and I think his selection was
probably more a nod to the previous regime and he's
not wanting to leave a guy out who was in
a World Cup squad and perhaps have too much youth
within your half back rank.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
So he's number four for me.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Are it I would go the same order, although I
think I'd flip TJ Peninara and Nah Hotham around just
on the basis of I think you don't lose.
Speaker 5 (25:59):
I mean TJ.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
I thought we had a good first half in duned him,
but I think with Hotham you've got that future.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
I look to the future there.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
I don't know that TJ, at sort of thirty five
thirty six is going to be around to the next
Rugby World Cup, so I think you look to the
future with Hotham. I think with Finlay Christie, you're right
and I'm really intrigued when the squad comes out for
the Rugby Championship as to what Scott Robertson and perhaps
more specifically Scott Hansen does around it. There was footage
(26:26):
of him in the ins of R Plus documentary talking
about how they've potentially got the you know, one of
the greatest or the greatest group of halfbacks in the
world heading into this World Cup cycle. We know Roy
Guard's on the sidelines, champion at the bit to get
his opportunity when he can. But it's going to be
fascinating to see how they weigh it up and where
the Hotham has done enough to crack into that three
and where the Finlay Christie retains his spot. I think
(26:48):
he's the one and the most jupity, isn't he?
Speaker 4 (26:50):
He is indeed, and if you cast the head, let's
win Royguards for how enticing dynamic prospect as a Roy
Guard Ratama one two punch, you know that that can
completely change the dynamic of your attacking game. Both strong defensively,
they bring great support lines. The only thing they're missing
(27:15):
is experience in big matches. But if you get them
and now build them for the next four years, that
is an absolutely lightning prospect.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Indeed, it is topic number two on our Rugby Direct
Final four. Joe Schmidt and start as Wallaby's coach, give
us a mic out of ten. Two wins over Wales,
one over Georgia. What do you give them out of ten?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Well, look, my harsh mark Earliot, we know this. I'm
only going to go five to be honest.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
I was really underwhelmed by the Wallabies performance against Georgia.
I know they made a number of changes and take
nothing away from Georgia. Look they scored try from the
end of the Earth, a lot more enterprising than we
expect from them. They traditionally cast as a bit of
a scrummaging set piece, played territory type scene, but they
(28:08):
really brought a lot more than that.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Against the Wallabies. But I think the Wallabies still had
big issues with depth. I think they need.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Some overseas players back Ben Donaldson. I don't rate as
the first five. Lola Coo was criticized for some of
his work against Wales as well, so still some big
question marks at ten. I think Joe Schmitt will improve
them over time, but it's still very much baby steps
for me at the stage.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Yeah, hush, Marker, Liam, you own up to it, but
that is harsh that we three and zero first time,
and I think about a decade that they've managed to
do that. The Wallabies, they're on the up. I give
them a six and a half out of ten. With
the players that he's got, the injuries that they've had,
I'm giving Joe Schmitt, you know, perhaps on my soft hand,
but I'm giving Joshmitt six and a half out of ten.
(28:58):
But there are some improvements that need to be made
from the Wallabies. Defensive Wise, I don't think they're quite
where they need to be. They ship twenty eight against
Wales in the second Test, twenty nine Georgia on the weekend.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
Defensively there are some real question marks.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
But what we have seen is they can score points
forty against Australia, story against the Jordan the week in
thirty six against Well, they've got points in them. It's
the conceding of it that really worries me. And I'm
fascinated to see whether he brings back some of those
overseas players for the Rugby Championship Topic three. The New
Zealand under twenties finished third at the Under twenty World
Cup in South Africa. They beat France in group play
(29:36):
but couldn't match it in the semi finals and then
bet Ireland in the third place playoff. Liam, I guess,
after a barren few years, do you consider third a
success for the New Zealand under twenties.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Just before I dive into that, I think, you know,
we've had some singing on the podcast before and I
think next time giving your marking, maybe you can come
out with, you know, always look on the bright side
of life. I think I think our listeners would.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Really enjoy that.
Speaker 5 (30:02):
We'll see, Yeah, okay.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
I'll start the campaign for that look on the under twenty.
It is a positive step in the right direction, isn't it.
I think it has been a real concern this development piece,
and I think it still is to a degree. But
John O Gibbs has come in there and he's importantly
had a lot of support from the All Blacks. I
think Leo McDonald and Jason Holland went over to visit
(30:27):
their squads when they were on the Gold Coast, so
to see that that level of connection is important.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Third is an improvement.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
They were well off the pace against France, but France
had been a domineering presence in this area of the
game and to get one up on Sorry Ireland in particular,
does show progress. So I think if they can retain
john O Gibbs, that's an important piece of the puzzle there,
(30:55):
and yet to shine a bit of a spotlight on
the under twenties and the importance it does have to
providing that pathway to the national team. So positive steps there, Eliot,
I'm with you. I'm seeing the glass half a side
of the equation here.
Speaker 5 (31:10):
It's a better way to do it.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Unfortunately, Johnny Gibbs his sign with Leon I believe, so
that's him done. I think from a New Zealand under
twenties perspective, at least of this season. For me, I
think there's almost too much put on results at the
Under twenty World Championship and titles. I think you obviously
need to see the quality players coming through, but I
think there's a little bit too much weight put on Oh,
(31:31):
they haven't mad a final in seven years, because this
is the only point in time where you are capped
by an age limit. At test level or at international level.
So me it's important to see those players coming through.
But you look at through some of the years, yep,
there's been heaps of Super Rugby and All Blacks players
that have come through the grade and made their way there.
Some years not so much. But when you combine it
to one team from an open age limit, then you
(31:56):
may have as many problems. So I think there's almost
a little bit too much waiting, especially maybe up North
around what an under twenty championship means. But a good
progress from New Zealand none the least. Topic four in
the Final four sevens at the Olympics starts Thursday morning,
live commentary on Gold Sport and iHeartRadio looking forward to
(32:17):
bring this to you that All Black sevens have two
days of competition before a break for the day of
the opening ceremony, them back into it for finals date
Len What chance of a double gold for New Zealand
at these games?
Speaker 4 (32:30):
I think there's a strong chance to a degree. But
sevens is so hit and miss, isn't it. He only
needs one drop ball, one penalty, a yellow card and
the momentum completely swings and it's so hard to get
it back a bit like twenty twenty cricket. So look,
I think I would back our woman to go there
(32:51):
and get gold.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
But the men have improved significantly in recent years and
are a strong.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
Chance, but I wouldn't be putting the house on them
to go and get gold. Double goal would be a
fantastic achievement. Both those teams that are fairly settled that
have been building to this as their pinnacle events, and
they do look like they're on track. But seven is
just so unpredictable. You never know what's coming. So it's
(33:19):
going to be fascinating to see as part of that
wider coverage and certainly looked forward to hearing your doulcet
turns in the early hours of the morning.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Yeah, put the radio under the beat or the the
iPad iPhone or whatever, chuck it on iHeartRadio. I think think
for the Blackfoo Sevens or the Women sevens as they
call it, this competition, I think for not getting gold
is probably a bit of a failure for them, even
though Australia is really on the improve. I think New
Zealand going as favorites to that competition, they should win it.
(33:46):
But as you say, anything could happen on the day.
But I think getting Sierra Hiddney back from that jury
that threatened to rule around the Olympics is a major
boost with them. They've been doing really really well in
her absence. They lost the Madrid World Championship final to Australia,
but they do in general have had their number for
a couple of years now, so let's hope that continues
(34:07):
at the Olympic game. And for the men's sevens, I
think it's so wide open. You've got France with Antonine
du Pont, the Argentina had a really really good season.
New Zealand's right, the Figi haven't had the greatest a
couple of years, but you know they'll turn up and
they've got a couple of players that have switched over there.
South Africa barely qualified, but they're a real contenter. So
there's any number I think in the men's where five, six,
(34:28):
seven teams actually could win it. So I promises to
be a fascinating Olympic sevens competition. Let's wrap up the
final four and wrap up the podcast with a quick
one on Eddie Jones defeated at the weekend comfortably by
Italy after losing to Georgia the previous week. Liam, do
you put it down to just trialing a few new
combinations and players, or has Eddie Jones gone a bit
(34:52):
Joe Biden and all the momentum's gone.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
Yeah, I think we need to start an Eddy out campaign, Eliott,
because it hasn't been a great what two years for him,
has it? I'd love to do a deep dive into
his record, but from to Australia to Japan, he's rode
the wave of reputation and it's tanking at the moment
(35:16):
because his only recent victories came with Japan, a over
the Mauldy All Blacks a few weeks ago, and some
really bad losses in recent times. Georgia, you know, that
was a shock home loss, and so I think there's
big questions mounting around whether Eddie will you know, I'm
(35:38):
sure he'd want to stick it out, and Japan known
for firing coaches, and he does have a lot of
goodwill in Japan given what he did in twenty nineteen,
but I think there's serious questions about whether he's the
right man for that job.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Indeed, and Liam, before we go, you wanted to give
a special shout out on the pod to a victorious club.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
So Elliott, it was a big weekend club Lands with
the grassroots that the heartbeat of the game around the country.
I know there's Club Final Needen and across the country
and club close to my heart Fox and We're the
won the hoop Carperty Championship defending Rahui thirty points to
(36:21):
twenty seven. That was only Rahui's second loss in three years.
So very proud day for my hometown. And it's fair
to say the fox and fizz was flowing for days.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
I'm sure it still is now. Congratulations to the Foxton lads.
I'm sure there's been plenty of celebrations down that way.
Speaker 5 (36:39):
Liam.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Thank you as always for your presence on Rugby Directs.
Good catch up as always.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
That's so you warm up those vocal tones for next week.
Speaker 5 (36:47):
Elliott, Yes, indeed, not sure if we'll be back next week.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
We'll be back certainly the week of the Test match
leading into Argentina and your podcast feeds.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
We will catch you then.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
I thanks to the last and bars English that has
been Rugby Direct powered by Excess Solutions, elevating you and
your business to a higher level.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
For more from New Talk Sat b listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
this and our wide range of podcast now on Iheartradiot, Inside.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
The Game from every angle.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
It's Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Welcome in to Rugby Direct, powered by Excess Solutions, elevating
you and your business to a higher level. My name
is Elligant Smith, chief rugby commentator for News Talk z'd
be alongside me as well is Liam Napier, chief sports
writer rugby correspondent for The New Zealand Herald. Liam, there
are some important things to dig into, but perhaps something
more important than a potential rift in the Rugby Direct
(00:48):
ranks around popcorn and going to the movies and shock
revelation from myself offline just before we hit record that
I'm the hugest of popcorn fans at the movies.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I don't have too many rules in life, Elliott.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
For one of those is that you must say popcorn
when you go to the movies.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
So yeah, you pretty much did to me.
Speaker 5 (01:07):
Mate saw the movie.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
We went to the Bike Riders yesterday just to inform
Liam I didn't take any popcorn and he was heartbroken. Anyway,
on to much more important matters. Let's get into the
week that was in rugby, and the biggest story probably
in Super Rugby transfer history is Ardie Savilla moving from
the Hurricanes to Mowana Pacifica. And the fact that's probably
(01:29):
just been brushed over a little bit is that he's
resigned with New Zealand Rugby through until twenty twenty seven.
But Liam, you broke this breakfast time on Friday morning,
two and a half days before it was official, and
look a huge story, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
It is?
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Indeed, as you mentioned Earliert, I guess right up there
with Joan Loomu going to the Hurricanes, Boden Barrett coming
to the Blues, I guess you know Marlono and Andrew
Ware moving from Wellington to Dunedin. Hand as it didn't
go so well do it. But look, this is Matt Massive.
It's instant credibility for Moana Pacifica. It's gonna not necessarily
(02:10):
turn their fortunes around overnight, but if you think about
the gravitas that it brings the other potential players that
may be looking at going to that franchise, everything around
sponsorship and luring eyeballs is huge for that franchise and
like you say, already going through to the twenty twenty
(02:31):
seven world cover. I don't think there were ever any
doubts around that, but to have that cleared up, to
have him locked in is massive for the All Blacks
as well.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
What's your understanding of why he's going to Mauna Pacifica
because he's been very loyal to the Hurricanes for a
number of years now. Obviously his brother plays at Mouna Pacifica.
How much did that play in his signing with Maua Pacifica.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Look, I think there's a number of different factors involved here.
Julian's presence is certainly a big one. They are an
extremely tight family that as they're also very proud of
their Polynesian heritage. Heritage, so ARTI's spoken openly over at
a number of different points in his career of a
desire to represent that heritage, and this is one way
(03:18):
where he can do that. It's fairly unlikely given he's
thirty years old now, you know, this next contract will
take him through until he's thirty three. He'd then have
to do a sort of three year stand down to
represent Snamo, So that's unlikely. So this is his chance
to represent that heritage, So that's a factor. I think
(03:41):
he probably also, you know, wants a new challenge. Going
to Japan was refreshing, going to Muana and having a
real influence there that that's a factor. Probably seeing what's
happened at the Hurricanes while he was away and the
way those loose forwards really stood up, what was a factor?
I think my understanding is that Jordi Barrett is actually
(04:03):
the highest played player at the Hurricanes, and so whether
that was a factor, I'm not sure could have thrown
a huge amount more money at Ardi, but I think
they probably could have to a degree, and I think, yeah,
at the stage of his career maybe Also I don't
(04:24):
know this for a fact, but I know Julian and
Ardi are very tight, and Julian wasn't happy about the
way that things played out at the Hurricanes with him
not being part of Clark Glade Law's Hurricanes future. So
maybe that was a potential factor as well.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
Yeah, quite possibly for me.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
I look at it and go, you're right, instant credibility
factor for more Wana pacifica and getting Ardie Savia across
the line and his magnetism.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
I suppose is.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
You know, it automatically gives that franchise credibility, but his
signature could bring others to be involved as well. Your
reporter that Via Fafita is looking likely to join more
Ona Pacifica, but there's other players as well that maybe
their Artie factor between if they have to choose between franchises,
could well see them for more on the Pacifica and
(05:17):
especially if they got Pacific Island heritage. This all of
a sudden becomes do I say that no longer a
team of players that are not good enough for the
other Super Rugby franchises, but one that aspires for success
under Ardie Savia and with Artie Savia.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
And if you think about guys like Liva Armor and
Tava Tavanawa, those guys I would go as far to say,
don't leave Mina Pacifica if Artie severe is there. Last year,
those were two shining lights for Minus Pacifica and it
was a real kick in the guts to see them
go elsewhere to further their careers. Liba Armor not a
(05:53):
great success at the Crusaders, but he went there because
he saw his future pathway, as you know, providing a
pathway through to the All Backs better and the Crusaders
than Miana. So Artie's present could change that, he could
lure more people there. And the other fact that I
didn't mention before was tana Umanger. He was a huge
(06:19):
driving factor in Ardi going Turmnor. I know he met
with him at Wellington. Tana and Tom Coventry have had
a real positive impact in improving standards at Wana last year.
I know they only won four or fourteen games and
finished second last, but their overall competitiveness throughout that season
(06:39):
lifted dramatically, didn't it. And so tana Umanger, the first
Polynesian All Black captain, his great minor and I think
his presence was huge in luring Ardi to Auckland.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Let's talk about the Hurricanes, because now they've lost Ardie Sava,
the running wheel Player of the Year. They lost Botien
Barrett through different circumstances as well in twenty nineteen. For
twenty twenty, can we linked the two and is there
a sign of a bigger issue at the Hurricanes that
they can't retain players that have won multiple World Player
(07:16):
of the Years titles.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
I don't think they Boden's transfer an Ardia intrinsically linked.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Boden moved to Auckland because.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
His wife is from Auckland's and their family wanted to move,
and the Blues could offer him exponentially more money through
their third party sponsorships. So I think also break the
teams are to a degree behind the Blues and what
they can offer financially. But look, there's no doubt despite
the Hurricanes' depth in their loose forwards that losing Artie
(07:48):
severe as a body blow, they.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Would have wanted to retain him.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
All the noises were that he was going back to
the Hurricanes, and clearly there's been a bit of a
breakdown there because Artie's a pin up guy, isn't he
spoke before about From a sponsorship perspective, you know you
can guarantee that at Mine and he's going to be
plastered all over their promotional material, their season memberships, even
though they don't actually have a home right now. So
(08:14):
he's a guy that you can really sell from a
public perspective, and he's one of your first names on
the team suit. So there's no doubt that the Hurricanes
wanted him back, expected him back, and I think they'd
be very disappointed to lose him, so I think internally
there probably are a few questions being asked about how
(08:34):
this has happened. And you know, reigning World Player of
the Year, there's not too many other people you'd want.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
In your ranks.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
No, there isn't a couple more questions, I guess on
this topic before we move on. I guess I've saw
a couple of suggestions last night that you know, Richie
mo Wolo could be next to join him, given he's
looking to come back to New Zealand. From my understanding,
if he comes back, it'll be with the Crusaders, and
(09:03):
I just don't see him going to Mona Pacifica. There's
all sorts of family reasons, et cetera, that it will
go back to to christ Church with family, so that
won't happen. But as you touched on, a major opportunity
now for Wuana Pacifica, who we've asked the question a
couple of times on this podcastle around their future and
where they go to there, As it always is in
(09:23):
the rugby world, there are whispers and things going on.
From what I heard, the financial situation at Mojuana wasn't great,
but that's never sort of come totally to light. So
you take it at you know, face value that Mourana
is continuing.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
I guess with the rebels as well.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
That was the question asked around where the Mowana could
survive too, But this could you know, this is as
you said, sponsorship wise, this is going to be a
major boost for a franchise that has struggled to find
a foothold.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
It is a major step in the right direction. It
doesn't solve everything behind the scenes. About a month ago
Mourana were actually sold to a pacifica medical group and
they involved them replacing their boards, So there has been
major changes behind the scenes there. That does provide a
(10:12):
lot of financial security to a degree. But look, this
is still a team without a home base, and that's
such a major factor in building fans because how do
you sell season memberships if you're playing in fungod Aid,
Mount Smart, Hamilton and Tonga all over the show really,
so that's a big thing for them to sort out
(10:35):
in the coming weeks. Hopefully they can lock down a base.
I don't know if they maybe look at Pookakoe and
Counties somewhere like that, but look, there's no doubt that
getting Artie does really put them on the map instant credibility.
The only other question I have for you that does
need to be addressed is this team is meant to
provide a pathway for players back to Samoa and Tonga
(10:59):
in particular with the Fijian Dura providing that pathway for
that team. You know, there's a lot of talk about
signing and all black and he's not going to play
for some or what's your read on that? And I
guess in the overall context of the purpose of Wina Pacifica.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
You know what, I think this is actually the best
thing to make that happen. In all honesty, I think
getting a player like Ardie Sava is, as we've touched on,
you know, is more likely to get those signatures of
players looking to play for some more and Tonger, especially
the bigger name players that are currently maybe playing in
Europe or abroad elsewhere, to get that signature across the line.
(11:38):
Ardie Sava is that kind of player. They're allowed what
three all blacks or three non some more and tong
and qualifying players on their books Previously, I think they
used a couple of English players this year, or they
did use a couple of English players this year. This
is a much better use of that spot that they're
allowed to use.
Speaker 5 (11:56):
So for me, I think this is the ultimate move.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
And if you could see players going actually I'm thinking
about coming back to New Zealander, I'm weighing up a
contract in Japan having played for some more or Tonga.
I think that's you know, Ardie sav Is. Prisons could
definitely make that happen. So for me, no issues there
on that front. And I think let's hope that this
is a stake in the ground from one to pacifica
(12:19):
that they really been business in super rugby.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
And look, every team, every startup team basically in history,
takes time, don't they. This is Wine has had three
years and this is their biggest move on or off
the field. You know, they've had the odd upset that
they're starting to improve, but it doesn't come any bigger
in the context of global rugby really then signing the
(12:45):
world the reigning World Rugby Player of the Year, so
massive move from Miana And like you, I hope it
really is a springboard two bigger and better things and
some real stability because you know, there has been a
lot of uncertainty, and there still is to a degree,
but having a player of his status go there does provide,
(13:06):
you know, a real law for players, for fans, and
hopefully that'll translate into on field performances as well.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Indeed, let's move on to the Test that was over
the weekend, the All Blacks beating Fiji forty in San Diego. Liam,
what do we learn from that eighty minutes of rugby?
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Look, I'm not too sure. I think I was fairly
underwhelmed by Fiji. The All Blacks were vastly improved, weren't they.
But look, they didn't face the same consuming line speed,
they didn't have Maro Tog pressuring their line outs. You know,
they weren't under a huge amount of pressure throughout that match.
(13:46):
But it was a step in the right direction. It
was very pleasing to get six rookies introduced to the
Test scene and see.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Them perform so well.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
You know, there was no sign of nerves or anxiousness
there and a lot of them really did state their cases.
So I think when you take a step back, what
it did show as there is still depth in New
Zealand rugby that Scott Robinson's got some big selection headaches.
He's probably needs to be a bit more bold and brave.
(14:18):
I think he's been very conservative to start his tenure,
particularly in those first two tests against England, who were
the big standouts for you.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Billy Procter I thought was excellent, had a superb performance
and is really putting pressure now I think on Rico
yu one and it's gonna be a fascinating selection battle
for the All Blacks. And what I thought Billy Proctor's
performance did was it opened up Caleb Clark a little
bit more. We saw Caleb Clark come into the game
better than he has in previous times with the All Blacks.
(14:50):
You look at his stats, see Caleb Clark for all
his tries at super rugby level, he struggled to score
at international level and that can be for any number
of reasons. But he was I thought excellent on the
weekend and that was because Billy Procter was playing some
superb rugby inside him.
Speaker 5 (15:04):
Looked like it took like a duct to.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Water for for Test rugby, I thought Billy Procter was
excellent and Antony let it Brown as well.
Speaker 5 (15:13):
I thought had a very very good game in the midfield.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Obviously a veteran played seventy tests now or thereabouts for
the All Blacks, but just a reminder of what his
class is and what he can do. And you know,
Jordy Barrett' obviously taking that twelve jersey and rightly so
over the last couple of seasons. But Antony let it
brown and his ability to distribute but also take on
the line shouldn't be underestimated. And I think it was
(15:36):
a real sense of haircape. We've got some real good
midfield options. I think the pressure now goes on Rico
Yowanni to respond in the Rugby Championship when he gets
his chance. I guess the other one that impressed me
was not Hotham off the bench again Slidabilly Procter didn't
take long to adjust to Test rugby, just came in.
(15:56):
Wasn't expecting to get as much game time as he
did with Quartez Ratama coming off of the park, but
he slotted in really, really well, didn't overplay his hand
and just looked ready for Test rugby. So for me,
the mid field and Noah Hotham with the standouts then,
and I don't think any one of the debuhants really
put a foot wrong but I think there's a lot
to like from what we saw in terms of the
(16:18):
individual performances over the weekend, even if we didn't learn
so much maybe about the team as a whole.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
That's right, and I'm glad you mentioned anton Lena Brown
there because Billy Proctor certainly got the plaudits and rightly so.
And the big thing that he brought wasn't it was
the distribution, just the ability to set us outsides away
Chris accurate, no hesitation, and I think that's what has
been missing. You know, that's the big criticism of Rico
(16:45):
Iwani's game, that he does tend to go himself rather
than set us outsides away. So there was a bit
of a stark contrast there. But Anton Lena Brown, you
know we've spoken before about no one really in New
Zealand rugby been able to replace what Jordi Barrett brings.
But on this occasion, Antony Leaner Brown actually did that.
He was hard running, direct, you know, he was Barrett
(17:09):
and for all intensive purposes. So that was really pleasing
to see that Angelina Brown has that ability allbit against Fiji.
You touch on some of the other debuns for me
off the bench as well Wallace Tsi, Pasilio Tossi. Those
guys have big futures. Still question marks around Tossi's scrummaging
(17:30):
ability against you know, the likes of the spring box
in England and others, but just from a pure ball carrying, dynamic, youth.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Perspective, those two guys have massive futures.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
And we talked previously about Wallace Citti's ability to change
the dynamic of that loose forward trio, and I think
that's a very live conversation because both those guys off
the bench hard, direct punch up the middle, they can offload,
they've got quick feet at the line. Just their their
pure physical dynamic. It was great to see them not
(18:08):
be overruled by the occasion and really thrive. And I
think there is some really tough decisions and it's going
to be interesting to see how the All Blacks manage
that throughout the Rugby Championship, because even from a squad perspective,
there's going to be some tough conversations, aren't they.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
There are, and I think that's going to be fascinating
to see how the thirty six are put together just
before we leave the game and or just Before we
move on, I just want to say about Luke Jacobson,
who as a player that I've never felt has really
stood up at test level, but I thought was very
very good on the weekend. But it was a real
line out target for the All Blacks. They used him
a lot during that game. I thought he carried pretty
(18:46):
strongly on occasion. But I thought that was probably one
of his better tests. Luke Jacobson was so Eathian blacket
a return to the fold maybe look short of a
gallop a little bit ethan. I found his way into
the game rather later on and I thought that was
a positive sign for the All Blacks. And Sam Derry
off the bench too. I thought when they're looking for
that size and that replacement lock, he put his hand up.
(19:06):
So there's some interesting selection quandaries ahead of the Rugby Championship.
As we touched on just on Fiji, liam really disappointing
from them. They obviously were World Cup quarter finalists last year.
They are missing some of the key players through injury.
You know Levani Botti. It wasn't there a couple of
players to join the sevens as well? Do we solve
(19:29):
not there either, So they were missing some key players,
but a really limp performance from Fiji. They ran pretty
much their entire attack around Semur and Dradra and on
times it worked, but it just wasn't going to be
able to cause issues for the All Blacks over eighty minutes.
I thought defensively they were lacks at times. Yeah, just
not a great afternoon from Fiji.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
I didn't think.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
No, it was very underwhelming, wasn't it.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
Even when they did bill phases, there was so many mistakes.
It was largely predictable, and they blew one try in
the corner but never really threatened the All Blacks. Their
scrums struggled, they never put any pressure on the line out.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Yeah, they I guess you know.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
They come off a July campaign where they've been up
to London, played the Barbarians, beat Georgia and Georgia.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
They've got a new coach and Mick Burn.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
As you mentioned, they're missing a couple of players, but
certainly expected a lot more from them given what happened
last year. They knocked over England at Twickenham Australia in
the World Cup and it did really look like they'd
fallen away significantly since then.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
So let's hope that's not a sign of things to come.
I do agree.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
Look, Jacison, that was definitely his best test for the
All Blacks, and yeah, probably underwhelmed by Ethan Blackhead. He's
a bit of a cult figure, isn't he his first test?
Since I think it's November first starting tests it's November
twenty twenty one, so maybe just coming to grips of that.
He's only played five games this year, but probably expected
a little bit more from him.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Indeed, Well, the All Blacks now, of course have a
break for three weeks, so they'reabouts until they reconvene for
the side of the Rugby Championship against Argentina in Wowing
and Leah before we take a break on the first
half of that podcast. And really sad news last week
as well, the passing of Norm Hewett age fifty five,
after he was diagnosed with murder neuron disease, which is
(21:20):
worryingly now a number of players have been diagnosed with
that number of rugby players from that era, but normal
Heewitt just a wonderful presence in rugby memories of that
showdown with Richard Cockrell, but I also admired the way
that he turned himself around towards the end of his
rugby career, then afterwards his battle with the bottle, and
then turned it into just a remarkable second half. I
(21:43):
suppose you'd say with the dancing with the stars, but
the fundraising for various charities. The SPCA, I know is
involved in drugging, alcohol abuse and everything like that. He
fund raised to help those people involved in that as well.
So really really sad news and New Zealand rugby losing
a bit of an identity in the passing of Norm Puitt.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yeah, norms a bit of.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
It's hard to summon my Actually, Jamie Wall, one of
our colleagues, did a nice piece that charted I guess
that that transition that you mentioned there and comparing it
to modern rugby and its challenges and it's trying to
change its public face to a degree, and I think
Norman did that. I've got memories of them playing in
the two thousand final great one that you'll remember fondly
(22:30):
Wellington claiming the title of Norm charging into rucks with
a broken arm b of Canterbury. So nice one for
the good guys there, and look Norm, you know he
came through in an era where Unfortunately, he spent the
vast majority of his career on the bench behind the
great Shaun Fazpatrick and was then quickly sort of usurped
(22:51):
by Antonine Oliver, but in an era where substitutions aren't
what they are today. So had he been born and
come through in a different era, would have played a
lot more tests for the All Blacks. But I think,
like you say, what he did off the field is
probably almost more meaningful and in later life. And yeah,
it is a worry that players of his generation are
(23:13):
disproportionately affected by modern neuron disease and I think there's
a lot to be said for that, and there's a
lot of research going into that.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
So your thoughts with the Hewitt family.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
But I guess great to see a guy like that
turn things around and it's a bit of a lesson
to us all.
Speaker 5 (23:31):
Yeah, an impressive legacy he leaves.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
There's a certain will take a break here on Rugby Direct,
come back with the second half after this.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 5 (23:48):
Rugby Direct.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
How You're back with Rugby Direct, power By Access Solutions,
get to get into our final four for rugby topics
that Ligham and I will debate, let's rank the All
Blacks halfbacks who have played this year if they were
all fully fit now I actually probaly need to add
a caveat there that I think we both agree that
Cam Roy is in theory the number one, but he
(24:10):
hasn't been able to play. But the All Blacks have
now used four half backs this year, Liam, having seen
three tests, how would you rank the half backs as
they stand? The ones that are fit or close to being.
Fitzel include TJ Pedanar right in this conversation.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
It was probably one of the most interesting selection debates,
isn't it. And it's very much a futuristic type conversation
with a lot of youth coming through. So I've been
extremely impressed by Cortez Ratimar. He made an immediate impact
at Eden Park coming off the bench, and while he
went off what was it thirty five minutes into that
(24:48):
Test in San Diego with an hia that will keep
him out for ten days or so. He's by far
and away made the biggest impact this year, so he's
won for me. I was impressed by t J Petinara
as well. I think in his limited time he did
show his experience. He's got a great left foot composure,
(25:08):
brings size and experience from the base, So he's two
for me, no hope them.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I was impressed by him.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
I think he does still have elements of his game
that can improve, but extremely dynamic and another one who
took to test regular conduct Towater, so he's three infinite.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Christie is very much number four for me. I think
he's in danger of falling.
Speaker 6 (25:32):
Out of the pack, and I think his selection was
probably more a nod to the previous regime and he's
not wanting to leave a guy out who was in
a World Cup squad and perhaps have too much youth
within your half back rank.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
So he's number four for me.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Are it I would go the same order, although I
think I'd flip TJ Peninara and Nah Hotham around just
on the basis of I think you don't lose.
Speaker 5 (25:59):
I mean TJ.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
I thought we had a good first half in duned him,
but I think with Hotham you've got that future.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
I look to the future there.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
I don't know that TJ, at sort of thirty five
thirty six is going to be around to the next
Rugby World Cup, so I think you look to the
future with Hotham. I think with Finlay Christie, you're right
and I'm really intrigued when the squad comes out for
the Rugby Championship as to what Scott Robertson and perhaps
more specifically Scott Hansen does around it. There was footage
(26:26):
of him in the ins of R Plus documentary talking
about how they've potentially got the you know, one of
the greatest or the greatest group of halfbacks in the
world heading into this World Cup cycle. We know Roy
Guard's on the sidelines, champion at the bit to get
his opportunity when he can. But it's going to be
fascinating to see how they weigh it up and where
the Hotham has done enough to crack into that three
and where the Finlay Christie retains his spot. I think
(26:48):
he's the one and the most jupity, isn't he?
Speaker 4 (26:50):
He is indeed, and if you cast the head, let's
win Royguards for how enticing dynamic prospect as a Roy
Guard Ratama one two punch, you know that that can
completely change the dynamic of your attacking game. Both strong defensively,
they bring great support lines. The only thing they're missing
(27:15):
is experience in big matches. But if you get them
and now build them for the next four years, that
is an absolutely lightning prospect.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Indeed, it is topic number two on our Rugby Direct
Final four. Joe Schmidt and start as Wallaby's coach, give
us a mic out of ten. Two wins over Wales,
one over Georgia. What do you give them out of ten?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Well, look, my harsh mark Earliot, we know this. I'm
only going to go five to be honest.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
I was really underwhelmed by the Wallabies performance against Georgia.
I know they made a number of changes and take
nothing away from Georgia. Look they scored try from the
end of the Earth, a lot more enterprising than we
expect from them. They traditionally cast as a bit of
a scrummaging set piece, played territory type scene, but they
(28:08):
really brought a lot more than that.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Against the Wallabies. But I think the Wallabies still had
big issues with depth. I think they need.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Some overseas players back Ben Donaldson. I don't rate as
the first five. Lola Coo was criticized for some of
his work against Wales as well, so still some big
question marks at ten. I think Joe Schmitt will improve
them over time, but it's still very much baby steps
for me at the stage.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Yeah, hush, Marker, Liam, you own up to it, but
that is harsh that we three and zero first time,
and I think about a decade that they've managed to
do that. The Wallabies, they're on the up. I give
them a six and a half out of ten. With
the players that he's got, the injuries that they've had,
I'm giving Joe Schmitt, you know, perhaps on my soft hand,
but I'm giving Joshmitt six and a half out of ten.
(28:58):
But there are some improvements that need to be made
from the Wallabies. Defensive Wise, I don't think they're quite
where they need to be. They ship twenty eight against
Wales in the second Test, twenty nine Georgia on the weekend.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
Defensively there are some real question marks.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
But what we have seen is they can score points
forty against Australia, story against the Jordan the week in
thirty six against Well, they've got points in them. It's
the conceding of it that really worries me. And I'm
fascinated to see whether he brings back some of those
overseas players for the Rugby Championship Topic three. The New
Zealand under twenties finished third at the Under twenty World
Cup in South Africa. They beat France in group play
(29:36):
but couldn't match it in the semi finals and then
bet Ireland in the third place playoff. Liam, I guess,
after a barren few years, do you consider third a
success for the New Zealand under twenties.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Just before I dive into that, I think, you know,
we've had some singing on the podcast before and I
think next time giving your marking, maybe you can come
out with, you know, always look on the bright side
of life. I think I think our listeners would.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Really enjoy that.
Speaker 5 (30:02):
We'll see, Yeah, okay.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
I'll start the campaign for that look on the under twenty.
It is a positive step in the right direction, isn't it.
I think it has been a real concern this development piece,
and I think it still is to a degree. But
John O Gibbs has come in there and he's importantly
had a lot of support from the All Blacks. I
think Leo McDonald and Jason Holland went over to visit
(30:27):
their squads when they were on the Gold Coast, so
to see that that level of connection is important.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Third is an improvement.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
They were well off the pace against France, but France
had been a domineering presence in this area of the
game and to get one up on Sorry Ireland in particular,
does show progress. So I think if they can retain
john O Gibbs, that's an important piece of the puzzle there,
(30:55):
and yet to shine a bit of a spotlight on
the under twenties and the importance it does have to
providing that pathway to the national team. So positive steps there, Eliot,
I'm with you. I'm seeing the glass half a side
of the equation here.
Speaker 5 (31:10):
It's a better way to do it.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Unfortunately, Johnny Gibbs his sign with Leon I believe, so
that's him done. I think from a New Zealand under
twenties perspective, at least of this season. For me, I
think there's almost too much put on results at the
Under twenty World Championship and titles. I think you obviously
need to see the quality players coming through, but I
think there's a little bit too much weight put on Oh,
(31:31):
they haven't mad a final in seven years, because this
is the only point in time where you are capped
by an age limit. At test level or at international level.
So me it's important to see those players coming through.
But you look at through some of the years, yep,
there's been heaps of Super Rugby and All Blacks players
that have come through the grade and made their way there.
Some years not so much. But when you combine it
to one team from an open age limit, then you
(31:56):
may have as many problems. So I think there's almost
a little bit too much waiting, especially maybe up North
around what an under twenty championship means. But a good
progress from New Zealand none the least. Topic four in
the Final four sevens at the Olympics starts Thursday morning,
live commentary on Gold Sport and iHeartRadio looking forward to
(32:17):
bring this to you that All Black sevens have two
days of competition before a break for the day of
the opening ceremony, them back into it for finals date
Len What chance of a double gold for New Zealand
at these games?
Speaker 4 (32:30):
I think there's a strong chance to a degree. But
sevens is so hit and miss, isn't it. He only
needs one drop ball, one penalty, a yellow card and
the momentum completely swings and it's so hard to get
it back a bit like twenty twenty cricket. So look,
I think I would back our woman to go there
(32:51):
and get gold.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
But the men have improved significantly in recent years and
are a strong.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
Chance, but I wouldn't be putting the house on them
to go and get gold. Double goal would be a
fantastic achievement. Both those teams that are fairly settled that
have been building to this as their pinnacle events, and
they do look like they're on track. But seven is
just so unpredictable. You never know what's coming. So it's
(33:19):
going to be fascinating to see as part of that
wider coverage and certainly looked forward to hearing your doulcet
turns in the early hours of the morning.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Yeah, put the radio under the beat or the the
iPad iPhone or whatever, chuck it on iHeartRadio. I think think
for the Blackfoo Sevens or the Women sevens as they
call it, this competition, I think for not getting gold
is probably a bit of a failure for them, even
though Australia is really on the improve. I think New
Zealand going as favorites to that competition, they should win it.
(33:46):
But as you say, anything could happen on the day.
But I think getting Sierra Hiddney back from that jury
that threatened to rule around the Olympics is a major
boost with them. They've been doing really really well in
her absence. They lost the Madrid World Championship final to Australia,
but they do in general have had their number for
a couple of years now, so let's hope that continues
(34:07):
at the Olympic game. And for the men's sevens, I
think it's so wide open. You've got France with Antonine
du Pont, the Argentina had a really really good season.
New Zealand's right, the Figi haven't had the greatest a
couple of years, but you know they'll turn up and
they've got a couple of players that have switched over there.
South Africa barely qualified, but they're a real contenter. So
there's any number I think in the men's where five, six,
(34:28):
seven teams actually could win it. So I promises to
be a fascinating Olympic sevens competition. Let's wrap up the
final four and wrap up the podcast with a quick
one on Eddie Jones defeated at the weekend comfortably by
Italy after losing to Georgia the previous week. Liam, do
you put it down to just trialing a few new
combinations and players, or has Eddie Jones gone a bit
(34:52):
Joe Biden and all the momentum's gone.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
Yeah, I think we need to start an Eddy out campaign, Eliott,
because it hasn't been a great what two years for him,
has it? I'd love to do a deep dive into
his record, but from to Australia to Japan, he's rode
the wave of reputation and it's tanking at the moment
(35:16):
because his only recent victories came with Japan, a over
the Mauldy All Blacks a few weeks ago, and some
really bad losses in recent times. Georgia, you know, that
was a shock home loss, and so I think there's
big questions mounting around whether Eddie will you know, I'm
(35:38):
sure he'd want to stick it out, and Japan known
for firing coaches, and he does have a lot of
goodwill in Japan given what he did in twenty nineteen,
but I think there's serious questions about whether he's the
right man for that job.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Indeed, and Liam, before we go, you wanted to give
a special shout out on the pod to a victorious club.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
So Elliott, it was a big weekend club Lands with
the grassroots that the heartbeat of the game around the country.
I know there's Club Final Needen and across the country
and club close to my heart Fox and We're the
won the hoop Carperty Championship defending Rahui thirty points to
(36:21):
twenty seven. That was only Rahui's second loss in three years.
So very proud day for my hometown. And it's fair
to say the fox and fizz was flowing for days.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
I'm sure it still is now. Congratulations to the Foxton lads.
I'm sure there's been plenty of celebrations down that way.
Speaker 5 (36:39):
Liam.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Thank you as always for your presence on Rugby Directs.
Good catch up as always.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
That's so you warm up those vocal tones for next week.
Speaker 5 (36:47):
Elliott, Yes, indeed, not sure if we'll be back next week.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
We'll be back certainly the week of the Test match
leading into Argentina and your podcast feeds.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
We will catch you then.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
I thanks to the last and bars English that has
been Rugby Direct powered by Excess Solutions, elevating you and
your business to a higher level.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
For more from New Talk Sat b listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
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