August 5, 2024 • 37 mins
This week on Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier return from a week off to talk the Black Ferns Sevens' gold medal in Paris and how to try and solve the men's Sevens issues at the Olympics.
We dig into the All Blacks squad for the Rugby Championship ahead of this weekend's test against Argentina, debate some contract news for the All Blacks and ask the question... is Antoine Dupont the GOAT? Plus plenty more.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B.
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Speaker 2 (00:20):
It's Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Welcome to Rugby Direct powered by four Klod Solutions, lifting
you and your business to a higher level.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Well after a.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Well earned week off, Elliott Smith, Liam Napier Week are
back for another episode and Liam good to be back
on the Rugby Direct horse. There has been a fair
bit going on in the one week we've taken off.
Speaker 5 (00:43):
Podcasting has indeed, Elliott's and you haven't had a week off.
You've been doing crazy hours a part of the Olympic Games,
and we'll certainly touch on that. But great to be
back and great to have the Rugby Championship on the horizon.
Always fascinating tournaments and will be the case again this year.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Certainly we'll be well.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Let's start with the Olympics gold medal for the Black
Fern sevens, A place furnished or a quarterfinal eksit, depending
on which way you want to spin it. For the
men's side, I guess first and foremost, let's celebrate the
women's side, because I think they deserve it. They've been
the pacesetters in women's sevens since it became into the Olympics.
They missed out obviously on gold in twenty sixteen, but
(01:26):
they have been quite the phenomenon over a number of years.
And it feels like that gold medal was a bit
of a closing of the book. I guess on a
generation that has delivered so much to New Zealand sevens
and New Zealand rugby and we're not going to see
Portia Woodman Wickcliffe again. We know that Tyler King is going,
(01:46):
Stacy Waka sees she'll be back, but we don't know
when others or I guess a bit up in the year.
The likes have said it hit any so it felt
like the closing of a book. But if that's the
closing of the book, then it's a hell of a
final line to what has been a great read.
Speaker 6 (02:02):
Yeah, what a team earlier.
Speaker 5 (02:03):
I mean, you can put this Black Fern's sevens team
up there with the greatest in New Zealand rugby, and
you'd say the same for some of those athletes there
that you mentioned, not just in a woman's context, but
when you're comparing them to the men as well. Back
to back gold medals at Olympic Games puts them in
(02:25):
a really elite eschelon in a New Zealand context, let
alone a global one. I guess from a tournament perspective,
it didn't go to script, did it. You know, they
perhaps had a favorable drawer. The Aussies choked I think,
and the Black Ferns made hard work of the final
(02:46):
with Porsche's yellow card. They had to really grind that out,
but you always felt like they were going to get
the job done there. But yeah, what a triumph and
an amazing way for the lacks of Porsche to finish.
Sarah hid In that you mentioned there, to even reach
that stage after her acl I think she played the
final with a fractured face. I'm not sure if it
(03:08):
was a cheap bone. So you know, you can compare
her to McCaw and the Raby World Cup final playing
with a broken foot. There's certainly parallels there in terms
of how inspirational sheh is to that team. So a
magic moment on a on a grand stage for you know,
a really special bunch of athletes as well.
Speaker 6 (03:27):
I think it's worth.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
Noting just how genuine and engaging they are in.
Speaker 6 (03:34):
All facets of.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
Their sporting realm as well, so that that certainly shines through.
Speaker 6 (03:40):
So, you know, an amazing achievement.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
It is they love their sport, they love their team.
It is really special that environment and it's been world
class for a number of years. And you're right Australia
missing out on a medal entirely is you know that
Canada women in the semi final probably the biggest upset
in women's seven's history, maybe closely followed by the bronze
(04:05):
medal match where again Australia missed out. Staggering stuff because
going into the tournament I thought it was fifty to
fifty and I thought both teams had been playing quite well.
But I was in the tournament, maybe just giving the
edge slightly to the Australigans. Madison Levi in an incredible form.
But you know, Canada, credit to them. They were unfancied,
but they just dug in and beat France the hosts
(04:30):
in the quarter final. Bit of Stratiga in the semi final,
I thought that was really really impressive. But look, the
end of an era. In many ways, I guess there's
new players coming through Georgia.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Miller is world class already.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
The likes of the others Paul and Nukhu are young
players in there so as well set up for the future.
Rissi Polti Lane co captain of the tournament, very very
young still as well, and we'll have a number of
tournaments and years in cycles of the Olympics under her belt.
So great stuff from the women's sevens team. I guess
if we look at the men liam sevens in the
(05:05):
men's format can be a funny game. But they just
were in the quarter final against South Africa. They faded
out of that game pretty badly and that was that.
And it's the cutthroat nature of sevens. You don't get
another chance and they blew it. And for me, I'm
a treat to get your thoughts on this. Seven's in
the men's context is quite challenged. I think in the
(05:27):
New Zealand rugby market, you've got all the players that
are there for the All Blacks jersey, the Mouldy All Blacks,
Super Rugby, et cetera. And sometimes through design or through
just the way that New Zealand rugby is feels like
the sevens program is a bit of an afterthought and
I don't really know the way to fix it. But
(05:49):
if we look at the tournament itself before we dig
into that, what did you make of that? Their exit?
And can it you put it down to just a
bad dabt the office or is there more at it?
Speaker 5 (05:59):
I think it is worth acknowledging that sevens is different
to fifteen's, isn't it. It's wambam, it's bounce to the ball,
a penalty here, a runaway there. It's such a brutal
format that a match result can swing momentum so quickly.
But this was a real dagger blow for the men
(06:19):
to not even really get close to meddling. I think
there's some real soul searching that needs to go on,
you know, with that results. They have performed well in
recent times, the men on the global circuit as well,
so they will be extremely disappointed. But I think you're
(06:40):
right in your assessment of where it stands in the
pecking order. I think there's a real case to be
made that New Zealand Rugby doesn't prioritize the goal medal
Olympic medals when it comes to the men's it's all
about the all Blacks and the fifteens game. And that's
why you can't compare the woman with the men, because
(07:00):
the woman that is, they have the elite of the elite.
If you look at what happened with the Black Back
Ferns and their fifteen's World Cup, those sevens players were
so influential in going back and playing fifteens and helping
the Black Ferns to that title, where the men, those
(07:21):
players go into a provincial setup and struggle to break
into those teams, so that it's really poles apart in
terms of the level of athletes that are in these teams.
So when you look at the All Blacks, I think,
you know, Will Jordan flirted with the idea, but I
don't think anyone else you know, seriously considered it. Caleb
(07:41):
Clark four years ago couldn't make the team, So making
that transition isn't as easy as it seems. But you'd
have to think that certainly that team for me lack pace,
out out and out pace, and you'd have to think
there are some better athletes out there that would be
suited to the fifteen the sevens arena. But maybe it's
just not that enticing to commit for a four year
(08:03):
cycle or six months out. You know, I think it
does need we think.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Yeah, I think the Olympics needs to be reset from
a New Zealand rugby men's perspective, and that goes for
the Insidos SIG as well. They've got to play their
role in selling what being an Olympian is all about.
I don't think they particularly sold it well. I think
there was this idea when sevens first came into the
Olympics that every man and their dog from every rugby
(08:32):
Ish sport league and fifteen's men's We're going to put
their hands up and go I want to be part
of that. But it just hasn't been realized when we
saw Sonny but Williams do it in twenty sixteen, but
it never has quite captured the imagination of the All
Blacks like many were expecting. I can remember when it
was sort of first being named in the Olympics and
(08:53):
Shawn Johnson being asked about it and those sort of things.
Well that none of that's ever materialized, and so I
think that New Zealand Rugby and the INSIDOC do need
to sell the job a bit better. But if it's
never appealed to you in terms of an Olympic medal,
and you've grown up wanting to to represent New Zealand
in fifteen's and where the All Blacks jersey and build
yourself towards a World Cup and play for the Bledder's
(09:15):
Low Cup whatever it might be, or play for Super Rugby.
Then trying to sell the stream of an Olympic gold
medal I think becomes quite tricky. And we haven't seen
the benefits from those fifteens players from New zealanderspective. Anyway,
go and do it, so I don't know what necessarily
the answers. I agree that it's hard to keep hold
of that talent and always has been for the men's team.
You know, look at the players that have you know,
(09:37):
in Gordon Kitchen's era that were he brought through and
then we're elevated to Super Rugby and beyond and he
never saw them again.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
It continues now.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
William Warbrecker was very very good for that New Zealand
men sevenside for a few seasons, got plucked by the
storm and he's going from strength to strength. I think
they're missing pace out wide, But for me, I think
it just requires a little bit of a reset as
to how they're going to plan to go forward, because
I think Liam, if you'd said rugby's going to be
in the Olympics and in the first three cycles New
(10:08):
Zealand when a men's gold medal, in fact, we'll only
get one medal from those three games, I think everyone
would have been pretty surprised.
Speaker 6 (10:16):
Yeah, big time.
Speaker 5 (10:17):
And if you think about the exposure that Seven's gives
rugby on a global stage, You've seen, you know, clips
blow up online, people go viral, particularly in the woman's scene.
It is a major stage and you know, New Zealand
rugby is in this space where it's all about building
its brand and capitalizing on global fans and all these
(10:39):
sorts of things. So from that perspective you could argue
that this is quite damaging.
Speaker 6 (10:44):
You know, from a men's side of things.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
A results a black jersey on the world stage, you know,
very underwhelming.
Speaker 6 (10:52):
So how do they feel about that? What are they
going to do?
Speaker 5 (10:56):
You know, when you talk about different athletes that are
out there attending Nino Sotutro, you know, Sean Stevenson, even
some of the nippier halfbacks going around the scene, they
would all have an impact if they were allowed a
decent lead in time, but it just doesn't seem to
be a lure. So I think it does need a rethink.
(11:19):
It does need to be really prioritized. And it is
such a major event once every four years that it's
not about investment, but I think it does need some
real attention and priority given to it.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
Yeah, that's going to be fascinating.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Right. Let's move on to the Rugby Championship and the
All Blacks. I'm in Wellington, you're gitting down tomorrow to
the Capitol and we have an All Black squad selected
a little bit a week ago for the Rugby Championship,
which has already been tinkered with with Scott Barrett out injured,
Harry Plummer, Cordon his cover for Stephen Petafetta who's carrying
a niggle ARDSRV is going to be the captain if
(11:57):
we go back a few days to win.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
The squad was named.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I guess that the big story was Finlay Christie not
being included in the squad of thirty six or one
of the three half backs. When we did our rankings
of our half backs last time out, we missed him
both out in our top three and I think we're
on the same wavelength as Scott Hansen and Scott Robertson
there evidently, Liam.
Speaker 6 (12:22):
I think it's been a long time coming.
Speaker 5 (12:23):
Elliott to a degree, Finlay's you know, we've talked about
his defensive qualities, but with the next Cropper halfbacks coming through,
he got usurped very quickly, didn't He His hesitation at
the base, Some of his kicking game was a bit errants,
and just that the pace and the accuracy that I
(12:46):
think the All Blacks want and have done for such
a long time, he doesn't really fit that mold.
Speaker 6 (12:52):
So for me it was a bit of a surprise.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
But just because of how conservative Scott Robertson and this
All Blacks coaching team have been to this point three
tests into their tenure, very conservative baby steps forward, and
I guess Finley was a guy that they inherited, but
courtiers that Artema Noah Hotham really went past them, and
(13:15):
he was probably going head to head with TJ. Pedara
for you know, that one experienced head in the half
back ranks. I guess the only other major talking points
from that squad was Will Jordan and Sam Kin coming
back any any sort of surprise there for you.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Look, I was a little bit surprised to see Sam
kin selected just on the basis and I guess that
you could make the same argument now with t J
Peternaro who's going and we'll touch on that in a moment.
But they've had an eye to the future in a
lot of ways with some of those selections they made
for the Rugby Championship around half back. Apart from TJ
(13:51):
of course, but they're almost like, well, looking a little
bit backwards, I think with Sam Kain Now, I get
you've got to live in the hero and now and
and when the Test matches in front of you, But
at the same time he has signaled he's leaving at
the end of the year. I'm not saying you can't
pick it necessarily, but just one with a just a
little bit of a backward step necessarily keeping him around
(14:14):
and ends not allowing him just to have a clean break.
I don't know, it just feels like it's perhaps a
tat unnecessary when they could be blooding someone new or
bringing someone new in. I get why you want him
in there. He's had ninety five caps of experience with
the All Blacks. I used to wonder whether maybe the
time was right to look at someone new.
Speaker 5 (14:35):
It's a delicate one, isn't it, Because if you are
planning for the future, you know you could argue someone
like a Peter Luckeye would would be gain more value
from being in that squad. I heard suggestions that Sam
kin at the start of the year was told he's
likely to get to one hundred caps, and then there
are a few whispers that maybe he was on the
(14:56):
cusp of missing out on the squad. So I don't
know quite where that ends up, but I guess what
are we six nine months ago sam Kine played his
best test for the in that World Cup quarterfinal against Ireland.
If he can produce that, he is thoroughly deserving of
his place. But then he is leaving at the end
of the year. So from an open side perspective, you know,
(15:20):
wouldn't you be better off investing in someone else, giving
them a chance to gain experience and s build a
combination with the loose forward trio.
Speaker 6 (15:29):
So it is a very delicate one.
Speaker 5 (15:31):
But I guess the All Blacks have to win every
test and Scott Robinson clearly sees Sam Kaine as being
a valuable a set to have around, you know, from
a leadership perspective as much as anything else in the background.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Probably speaking of leadership, Scott Barrett out injured for the
first two Tests of the year for the Rugby Championship.
Excuse me, Ardie Savilla predictably named as captain for the
next couple of weeks. Cody Taylor elevated into the vice
captaincy alongside Jordi Barrett this week. Look, I think no
surprise is there in terms of that, but it is
a loss at line out time for the All Blacks
(16:07):
not having Scott Barrett there. He played in all three
tiests obviously to start the season, so he's going to
set out the next two. The word is right for
South Africa if you hear Jason Ryan's assistance at the
media session today. So it's kind of interesting to see
the All Blacks this week, isn't it? Around the selections
at Locke Patrick Deuypilotto and who partners him in the
second row to face Argentina.
Speaker 6 (16:29):
You presume to Bouvia would go in there.
Speaker 5 (16:32):
Sam Derry obviously in the squad as well, but look
at the lineout was vast improved against Fiji, but was
extremely vulnerable up against Maro at Toji and England. So
it is a concern to lose your best lineout's ball winner,
your captain. And it is an interesting scenario for Scott
(16:54):
as well because he's had such a patchy year, you know,
missed along most of the vast majority of the season
for the Crusaders with their back injury and now a
finger while he's trying to establish himself as All Black captain,
so not ideal to be side lined again.
Speaker 6 (17:10):
He'll be chomping at the bit to get back for
the box.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
But I think the Pumas, if they were doing their homework,
they'll be coming straight for the All Blacks lineout to
put that under some heat and see if they can
get some pay from that area.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Also, Harry Plumber called an as cover for the injured
Stephen Petifitz. A nice reward for Harry Plumber who had
a very good Super Rugby season and gets perhaps an
opportunity or sit in the opportunity to show what he
can do. Rubin Love selected obviously for this campaign as well,
but the All Black signaling maybe they just need an
(17:42):
extra ten and looking to give Harry Plumber a little
bit of experience.
Speaker 5 (17:47):
Yeah, good reward, isn't it for a guy that guided
the Blues unheralded playmaker for a number of years, guided
the Blues a very special title for them. And I
guess the guy that offers a bit of versatility is
a bigger ten can cover twelve, so you know, quite
desirable from a bench perspective, and Rubin Love very happy
(18:07):
to see him include out and out attacking weapon, genuine
fullback and probably one step closer to a debut with
Stephen Peterfitzer, Nursing and Nigel And of course he started
those two tests at fallback against England, so pretty much
going head to head, I guess with Bowden Barrett for
you know, maybe some game time in the backfield.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
What do we expect from Argentina? Liam, I guess they
were well beaten by France in the first Test of
the year and undemanded. France then bounce back to beat
them in the second week and then thump Uriguy seventy
nine to five in the third week of the International
Block in July. What do we expect from Argentina as
(18:52):
they show up here? Last time they were in New Zealand,
they beat New Zealand in christ Church and that shock result,
then with thump the week after. But do they have
the ability to go out and give them a bit
of a tickle up at sky Stadium on the weekend.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
I think they'll be competitive, but they are an unknown
quantity out't there new coach?
Speaker 6 (19:11):
Post World Cup?
Speaker 5 (19:12):
I guess a bit of change that series against France
really hard to get a read on the French send
out a second string team had some a number of
issues off the field as well, so hard to know
quite where the Pumas are at. But they are a
team that will challenge you hard at the breakdown. They'll
contest in the air, they'll they'll play a lot of rugby,
(19:32):
will offload. So the All Blacks have been vulnerable at
the breakdown when you go back to that England series
and their inability I guess to produce lightning quickball and
secure their own their own pill So I think the
Pumas will come hard and fast there. But look, you'd
(19:52):
expect the All Blacks at this stage to win and
win reasonably comfortably. But you probably would have said the
same about that result in christ Church, so you never
ruled anything out in this climate.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Do you you don't speaking of this climates if you
change or a few cummings and goings. So over the
last couple of weeks, t Je Petenara departing after this year,
Dold and Papa Leti re signing through to twenty twenty seven,
calib Clark sticking around for twenty twenty five. What stands
out from those three putting pen to paper either in
(20:25):
New Zealand or going abroad Limb.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
I guess by and large, good business from New Zealand
rugby's perspective, isn't it.
Speaker 6 (20:32):
Caleb Clark?
Speaker 5 (20:33):
I guess you'd question why only one year extension he
leaves his options open. Hasn't really had a great crack
at the All Blacks left wing Jersey.
Speaker 6 (20:46):
I think he deserves it.
Speaker 5 (20:47):
At this point the All Blacks were sort of exposed
under the high ball with the crossfield kicks against England's.
Speaker 6 (20:52):
That's where an area he's really proficient.
Speaker 5 (20:55):
But he's talked about, you know, fluting with the idea
of going to rugby league. So maybe if he doesn't
get a serious crack over the next eighteen months, maybe
he will deflect. I think he would be a real
success in the Dolon Papolli, no real surprise committing through
to the next World Cup. We mentioned Sam Kine moving
on at the end of this year, so there's a
(21:16):
real open avenue to that. All Blacks open side Jersey
and TJ Peinar, I guess, no major surprise. I think
he was actually contracted next year. But he signed on
a three year deal with the Black Rams in Japan.
And it makes sense, doesn't it to cash in at
this stage of his career, having battle back from eighteen
(21:37):
months success of Achilles injuries, coming off off the back
of another knee injury. But it is he's got till
the end of the year, and I know it would
have been a really tough decision for a guy that's
extremely competitive. Do you think had he stuck around that,
you know, I guess maybe he was in danger of
(21:59):
being overtaken.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
I think that was definitely part of it for him.
And you look at the players that are coming through now,
and I'm sure he didn't sign the contract the last
two weeks since Noah Hotham made his debut, but I
think he probably got a sense that there were some
good young halfbacks coming through and he would be usurped
at some point, and I think he's given plenty to
(22:21):
New Zealand rugby, backed up Aaron Smith for a number
of years, played a lot of those tests off the
bench and controlled the last twenty minutes and finished the
games for the All Blacks. So I think he can
be very proud of his career, proved himself both proved
that he could make it back both to himself and
to the rugby world after that injury, making it back
(22:41):
this year with the All Blacks number one for a point,
and may still go out as the All Blacks number one,
depending on how the rest of the year shakes down.
But I think there's probably a realization that the cam
Roy guard Colled, Thesraziman, Noah Hothams of the world are
coming for that number nine and number twenty two Jusey
or twenty one Jewsey, I should say. So he's made
the call to go out on his terms, and good
luck to him. I think it's it's the right call
(23:02):
for him. Interesting as well to see that dearly signed
can include some coaching expertsperience towards the back end, so
that's interesting for future and down the track and how
that might play out for TJ. Caleb Clark. I mean
the one you deal for me is interesting because that
(23:23):
does leave that league door right open. He's a big
fan of South Sydney. He's talked about that. It would
not surprise me to see him go to Rugby League
after that. Before we take a break here on Rugby
Direct and finish up the first half of our podcast,
just some intel. We've got spies everywhere on the ground, lamb,
don't we. The Rugby Director community is very very good
(23:44):
at sharing what they're seeing out there, and I had
some intel on Friday that Richiemonger and Scott Hansen we
were seen having a coffee and then also seen on
the sidelines of the Tasman Southland game in christ Church,
the NPC build up game, and I think they met
(24:05):
halfway Tasman in Southland, but Richie Moonger on the sideline
there alongside Scott Hansen, Scott Robertson and Thomas E.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Ellison. So make of that what you will.
Speaker 5 (24:17):
It's all right, So what is it the gc SB,
the government spy agency. Least to say, Rugby Direct's got
its own people in the wings and.
Speaker 6 (24:29):
Little lasers out in the community.
Speaker 5 (24:30):
So it's not a surprise, is that that Richie's engaged
with all Blacks management. Given you know what we've heard
over the last eighteen months, but very good intel from
u LA and I would expect nothing less than you
tapping into the christ Church community.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
That's right, yeap, keep it coming. We will take any
oil if you want to send it our way. Right,
We'll take a break here on Rugby Direct. Come back
with the final four after this.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
The Rugby Direct.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Howard Badies talk it, call yourself a real Rugby fan.
This is Rugby Direct.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
You're back with Rugby Direct powered by Excess Solutions. Time
now for our final four. On the podcast four Rugby Topics,
myself and Liam debate them. Topic one Liam, this came
out as a result of Anton DuPont and if it's
with the French seven sides which was a big reason
why they won and a suggestion on x formerly Twitter
(25:31):
that he was the greatest player of all time. Where
do you stand on this?
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Is he.
Speaker 6 (25:37):
Look in short? No, he's not.
Speaker 5 (25:39):
I think Aaron Smith summed it up nicely for me.
He tweeted that he's the greatest player of this generation.
I think he certainly has claims to that, but I
think whenever there's something front and center like the Olympics,
like Anton DuPont making a seamless transition to the sevens.
We talked about some of the athletes in New Zealand
(26:01):
that haven't managed that.
Speaker 6 (26:02):
So look, he's a phenomenal talent.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
He can kick off both feet, he is change the
game from a halfback perspective. He really does do it all.
But he also hasn't done a lot. He hasn't spent
a lot of time playing in the Southern Hemisphere. He
hasn't won a World Cup, and this is you know,
he can only do so much from an individual perspective.
But when you go back to the World Cup, I think,
(26:26):
reflecting on his performance in that quarter final when the
spring box pit the French, there were moments in that
match where he wasn't very composed in the white hot
heat of a home World Cup, a knockout match, and
so I think, you know, he's one top fourteen titles,
he's won an Olympic gold. But for me, he's still young,
he's still got a bit to prove, he's still got
(26:47):
a bit to do to get to.
Speaker 6 (26:49):
That goat status.
Speaker 5 (26:50):
But it is a very strange debate, isn't it to
compare players, compare generations, but for me, he's not quite
there yet.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
No, I think he's there yet either.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Agreed he's the best player of the current generation, but
a few question marks in terms of he barely plays
outside out of Europe all the six nations, to be
quite honest, and only plays in France very rarely tours.
We won't see him in New Zealand. I wouldn't have
thought next year. It's been pretty much confirmed on that.
I think you have to. It's kind of like cricket.
(27:21):
You can't just score all your runs at home. You
kind of have to score abroad to be considered as
one of the greats. If you can score away from
home and unfamiliar conditions, then you can be called one
of the greats depending on your record. So I think
he's still got to do that. The sevens think, yep,
he was a big factor in why France won that,
(27:42):
but he wouldn't have played sevens if it wasn't in France.
It was a publicity stunt more than anything. In many ways,
I thought like good on him for doing it, and
the good on him for the French Rugby Federation and
to lose allowing him to do it and making it happen,
but it was by and larger publicity stunt. He wasn't
going to play if it was an LA he won't
be backward in the four and four years time. So
(28:03):
that was a moment to try and effectively. Listen, ticket
sales that started to France and it worked. Very very
good player. I think it's still some question marks and yeah,
I just think, you know, you kind of do have
to win a World Cup or at least be in
contention for a World Cup to be considered one of
(28:24):
the great So I think he's the best player on
the planet, maybe just alongside artisav at the moment, but
there's still a long way for him to go to
be considered the greatest of all time. Topic number two.
Some sad news for our friends and Kutter with the
news there but has been to host the nation's championship
final weekend has been rejected. What do you make of this, Lamb.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
Yes, I've been in undated actually from Rugby Direct fans
and kat that's big and pause pause to poise sorry
to buy tickets for the grand weekend that that was touted. Look,
I am quite surprised in the current climate of financial
strife across world rugby, that these unions didn't take the
(29:10):
money and run and turn a blind eye to, you know,
all the human rights issues surrounding Qatar, and basically came
down to us the usual split North feast South. So
from what I've read in a number of different outlets,
(29:30):
Island and France rejected it, and effectively they only need
one union to say no. On this occasion, there was
a split among the Southern hemisphere nations and it's caused
a real rift with the South who were absolutely dead
keen to take the money to get the bail out,
to have the guaranteed purses for the next what was it,
twelve years, So it doesn't sound like there's any comparable
(29:53):
bids from a financial perspective. But I also think I
think it's a good move because this nation's championship could
have fallen over in its first instance if you're playing
in front of no One, and that was a real
risk with that proposal, and so I think it's I'm
glad they're not going there. I think it would have
(30:14):
been all about the money, and it's going to be
really interesting to see where it does end up.
Speaker 6 (30:19):
Now.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
Yeah, I'm not how do I put this.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
I think there is a risk now I think it
probably it may fall over the entire concept. Now I
know they have agreed this whole thing. I don't have
any intel to back that up, but I just think
that I'm not sure who's going to come forward to
bankroller this is a money spinner for these unions. I'm
not sure we'll see it in its original format. Maybe
(30:44):
now I don't know. It fels like that was the
you know, the deal that was on the table. To
be honest, that wouldn't have worried me if they went
if the head through cutter everything so far gone on
sport washing, like, what's another one? And to add to
the list.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
You know, the empty crowds thing doesn't really wash with me,
I don't think, because if it's at the United States,
is a real risk it's empty over there. You take
it anywhere else in Europe. I don't know that it's
going to get full crowds that they seem to think
it will. Certainly outside the rugby nations like for example Spain,
you might get a crowd for the big final game,
(31:20):
but I don't, you know, you get it for Day
one and the twelve v twelve playoff or whatever it is.
So yeah, I can see why they rejected it. I'm
intrigued to see whether there's any deal that comes along
that that stacks up that could make it work for
these unions now. But you know, it's interesting to see
(31:41):
France and Iland hold themselves to a higher par than
perhaps the other ten unions. So we wait with beta
breath to see if someone else comes forward. I mean,
they're not necessarily running out of time, but they want
to take this to market, don't They liam to the
TV broadcasters to have it in their back pocket and
have some certainty about where it's going to be held,
and at the moment they don't have that to take
to broadcasters, with New Zealand Rugby, for instance, their TV
(32:03):
deal up at the end of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
Yeah, you're right there, there are some big to overcome now,
and I think I agree that I don't think we
will see it as a finals weekend because currently they
need to negotiate compensation for the French clubs, European clubs
in particular for an extra weekend to stage that. So
I think what you'll see now as a one off
final perhaps in Spain or Germany or one of those
(32:29):
big iconic football stadiums trying to maximize the revenue. But yeah,
I think there's massive hurdles to overcome and that's why
by all accounts, the southern Hemisphere nations South Africa, Australia
and New Zealand. I think Argentina are well as well,
are actually going as far to seek compensation from the
North for vetoying this deal. So big ructions again nothing
(32:52):
new in terms of Northeast South. But you know when
you look across the ditch at Australia in an incredibly
periless state, the states are pretty high.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Certainly are watch this space on that one. Speaking of Australia,
our friends across the Tasman, can the Wallabies stop the
spring By in the opener this weekend in Brisbane? The
funny thing about the strong Box they actually don't have
the best of records in Australia touring there over the
last way while if more losses than you would think.
But how do you see this going this weekend? Is
(33:23):
Jochmit gonna tip up Rassi in the first meeting between
the two, I.
Speaker 5 (33:27):
Don't think so. No, it is a bit of a
bizarre one though, isn't it. Maybe the Box there's a
bit of an arrogance there. When they go to Ossie,
they just expect to roll in and roll out, and
the world champions in the in the current state, you
would expect them to do just that, But funny, funnier
things have happened. I think Australia are still finding their feet.
(33:49):
I don't think they've selected all their best players. Are
still you know, the world skeletons of the world aren't
going to feature. I think against the Box, he's going
to come back for the for the Pumas. So I
think the Wallabies are still very much work in progress,
so I expect the Box to win that.
Speaker 6 (34:03):
Let me put this to you earlier. So the Rugby Championship.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
I think something like six out of the last seven
years the All Blacks have won the title.
Speaker 6 (34:12):
Who wins it this year?
Speaker 3 (34:15):
I think South Africa wins it this year. I think
they'll I think New Zealand and several will split their
tests in South Africa.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
I think South Africa.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Will win both against the Wallabies and I just think
they might get that one extra win perhaps in the
All Blacks to win the Rugby Championship. I don't see
Australia or Argentina contending for line honors this time around.
I'm going to give it to the Box.
Speaker 6 (34:41):
You.
Speaker 5 (34:43):
I think the Box start favorites because hosting those two
tests against the All Blacks. But if feel Blacks can
have a couple of big wins against the Wallabies and
Pumas get a few bonus points at the Box, maybe
struggle to get it could be a very very tight
run thing all right.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
And finally on rugby direct Provincial rugby at its finest
gets underway this weekend, the NPC and the far Palmer Cup.
Liam give us a winner for both of the competitions.
Speaker 5 (35:13):
Gone, oh, here we go. I'm gonna tip Wellington of course.
And the men's have got Billy Proctor back. They've blind
the check book again like like they're not meant to.
Canterbury looks strong, they're no stand out first five, so
I think they'll contind Auckland strong as well, and and
(35:35):
the women's are will will tip Auckland's.
Speaker 6 (35:39):
I think Philly settled squads.
Speaker 5 (35:41):
I've actually got a mates been been Ben who was
involved with the Ponti eighty five hustlers involved with the
Auckland team, so hopefully gives me some good intel and
they get up.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
For the NPC, I'm going to say Auckland, that squad
is seriously stacked, really really is you look at those
players across the park. I think Auckland wins the n
P m PC and I'm reckoning Canterbury will in the
f PC. It's coming back home in the f PC.
So that's that's good news. Great to hear Wellington's sort
of overspending again. That's that's really really good news.
Speaker 5 (36:18):
Warms the heart, doesn't it? Almost as much as Rob
Penny Coming back to.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
I was trying to like, I deliberately did not put
this on the document to discuss because I just did
not want to.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
I can't bring myself to talk about it. What are
they doing?
Speaker 6 (36:33):
Happy days? Happy days.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
On that note, that's probably about it for Rugby Direct.
Looking forward to this weekend live commentary by the way,
news Talks hereb gold Sport, iHeartRadio, All Blacks Argentina from
sky Stadium and Wellington. You can read all about it
on inzi here, dot co, dot z. That will do us.
For Rugby Direct from the Capitol now thanks to Lars
and Bars English. We will see you next time on
Rugby Direct, powered by Excess Solutions, elevating you and your
(36:57):
business to a higher level.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
For more from News Talks B listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Yet inside the game from every angle.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
It's Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Welcome to Rugby Direct powered by four Klod Solutions, lifting
you and your business to a higher level.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Well after a.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Well earned week off, Elliott Smith, Liam Napier Week are
back for another episode and Liam good to be back
on the Rugby Direct horse. There has been a fair
bit going on in the one week we've taken off.
Speaker 5 (00:43):
Podcasting has indeed, Elliott's and you haven't had a week off.
You've been doing crazy hours a part of the Olympic Games,
and we'll certainly touch on that. But great to be
back and great to have the Rugby Championship on the horizon.
Always fascinating tournaments and will be the case again this year.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Certainly we'll be well.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Let's start with the Olympics gold medal for the Black
Fern sevens, A place furnished or a quarterfinal eksit, depending
on which way you want to spin it. For the
men's side, I guess first and foremost, let's celebrate the
women's side, because I think they deserve it. They've been
the pacesetters in women's sevens since it became into the Olympics.
They missed out obviously on gold in twenty sixteen, but
(01:26):
they have been quite the phenomenon over a number of years.
And it feels like that gold medal was a bit
of a closing of the book. I guess on a
generation that has delivered so much to New Zealand sevens
and New Zealand rugby and we're not going to see
Portia Woodman Wickcliffe again. We know that Tyler King is going,
(01:46):
Stacy Waka sees she'll be back, but we don't know
when others or I guess a bit up in the year.
The likes have said it hit any so it felt
like the closing of a book. But if that's the
closing of the book, then it's a hell of a
final line to what has been a great read.
Speaker 6 (02:02):
Yeah, what a team earlier.
Speaker 5 (02:03):
I mean, you can put this Black Fern's sevens team
up there with the greatest in New Zealand rugby, and
you'd say the same for some of those athletes there
that you mentioned, not just in a woman's context, but
when you're comparing them to the men as well. Back
to back gold medals at Olympic Games puts them in
(02:25):
a really elite eschelon in a New Zealand context, let
alone a global one. I guess from a tournament perspective,
it didn't go to script, did it. You know, they
perhaps had a favorable drawer. The Aussies choked I think,
and the Black Ferns made hard work of the final
(02:46):
with Porsche's yellow card. They had to really grind that out,
but you always felt like they were going to get
the job done there. But yeah, what a triumph and
an amazing way for the lacks of Porsche to finish.
Sarah hid In that you mentioned there, to even reach
that stage after her acl I think she played the
final with a fractured face. I'm not sure if it
(03:08):
was a cheap bone. So you know, you can compare
her to McCaw and the Raby World Cup final playing
with a broken foot. There's certainly parallels there in terms
of how inspirational sheh is to that team. So a
magic moment on a on a grand stage for you know,
a really special bunch of athletes as well.
Speaker 6 (03:27):
I think it's worth.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
Noting just how genuine and engaging they are in.
Speaker 6 (03:34):
All facets of.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
Their sporting realm as well, so that that certainly shines through.
Speaker 6 (03:40):
So, you know, an amazing achievement.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
It is they love their sport, they love their team.
It is really special that environment and it's been world
class for a number of years. And you're right Australia
missing out on a medal entirely is you know that
Canada women in the semi final probably the biggest upset
in women's seven's history, maybe closely followed by the bronze
(04:05):
medal match where again Australia missed out. Staggering stuff because
going into the tournament I thought it was fifty to
fifty and I thought both teams had been playing quite well.
But I was in the tournament, maybe just giving the
edge slightly to the Australigans. Madison Levi in an incredible form.
But you know, Canada, credit to them. They were unfancied,
but they just dug in and beat France the hosts
(04:30):
in the quarter final. Bit of Stratiga in the semi final,
I thought that was really really impressive. But look, the
end of an era. In many ways, I guess there's
new players coming through Georgia.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Miller is world class already.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
The likes of the others Paul and Nukhu are young
players in there so as well set up for the future.
Rissi Polti Lane co captain of the tournament, very very
young still as well, and we'll have a number of
tournaments and years in cycles of the Olympics under her belt.
So great stuff from the women's sevens team. I guess
if we look at the men liam sevens in the
(05:05):
men's format can be a funny game. But they just
were in the quarter final against South Africa. They faded
out of that game pretty badly and that was that.
And it's the cutthroat nature of sevens. You don't get
another chance and they blew it. And for me, I'm
a treat to get your thoughts on this. Seven's in
the men's context is quite challenged. I think in the
(05:27):
New Zealand rugby market, you've got all the players that
are there for the All Blacks jersey, the Mouldy All Blacks,
Super Rugby, et cetera. And sometimes through design or through
just the way that New Zealand rugby is feels like
the sevens program is a bit of an afterthought and
I don't really know the way to fix it. But
(05:49):
if we look at the tournament itself before we dig
into that, what did you make of that? Their exit?
And can it you put it down to just a
bad dabt the office or is there more at it?
Speaker 5 (05:59):
I think it is worth acknowledging that sevens is different
to fifteen's, isn't it. It's wambam, it's bounce to the ball,
a penalty here, a runaway there. It's such a brutal
format that a match result can swing momentum so quickly.
But this was a real dagger blow for the men
(06:19):
to not even really get close to meddling. I think
there's some real soul searching that needs to go on,
you know, with that results. They have performed well in
recent times, the men on the global circuit as well,
so they will be extremely disappointed. But I think you're
(06:40):
right in your assessment of where it stands in the
pecking order. I think there's a real case to be
made that New Zealand Rugby doesn't prioritize the goal medal
Olympic medals when it comes to the men's it's all
about the all Blacks and the fifteens game. And that's
why you can't compare the woman with the men, because
(07:00):
the woman that is, they have the elite of the elite.
If you look at what happened with the Black Back
Ferns and their fifteen's World Cup, those sevens players were
so influential in going back and playing fifteens and helping
the Black Ferns to that title, where the men, those
(07:21):
players go into a provincial setup and struggle to break
into those teams, so that it's really poles apart in
terms of the level of athletes that are in these teams.
So when you look at the All Blacks, I think,
you know, Will Jordan flirted with the idea, but I
don't think anyone else you know, seriously considered it. Caleb
(07:41):
Clark four years ago couldn't make the team, So making
that transition isn't as easy as it seems. But you'd
have to think that certainly that team for me lack pace,
out out and out pace, and you'd have to think
there are some better athletes out there that would be
suited to the fifteen the sevens arena. But maybe it's
just not that enticing to commit for a four year
(08:03):
cycle or six months out. You know, I think it
does need we think.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Yeah, I think the Olympics needs to be reset from
a New Zealand rugby men's perspective, and that goes for
the Insidos SIG as well. They've got to play their
role in selling what being an Olympian is all about.
I don't think they particularly sold it well. I think
there was this idea when sevens first came into the
Olympics that every man and their dog from every rugby
(08:32):
Ish sport league and fifteen's men's We're going to put
their hands up and go I want to be part
of that. But it just hasn't been realized when we
saw Sonny but Williams do it in twenty sixteen, but
it never has quite captured the imagination of the All
Blacks like many were expecting. I can remember when it
was sort of first being named in the Olympics and
(08:53):
Shawn Johnson being asked about it and those sort of things.
Well that none of that's ever materialized, and so I
think that New Zealand Rugby and the INSIDOC do need
to sell the job a bit better. But if it's
never appealed to you in terms of an Olympic medal,
and you've grown up wanting to to represent New Zealand
in fifteen's and where the All Blacks jersey and build
yourself towards a World Cup and play for the Bledder's
(09:15):
Low Cup whatever it might be, or play for Super Rugby.
Then trying to sell the stream of an Olympic gold
medal I think becomes quite tricky. And we haven't seen
the benefits from those fifteens players from New zealanderspective. Anyway,
go and do it, so I don't know what necessarily
the answers. I agree that it's hard to keep hold
of that talent and always has been for the men's team.
You know, look at the players that have you know,
(09:37):
in Gordon Kitchen's era that were he brought through and
then we're elevated to Super Rugby and beyond and he
never saw them again.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
It continues now.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
William Warbrecker was very very good for that New Zealand
men sevenside for a few seasons, got plucked by the
storm and he's going from strength to strength. I think
they're missing pace out wide, But for me, I think
it just requires a little bit of a reset as
to how they're going to plan to go forward, because
I think Liam, if you'd said rugby's going to be
in the Olympics and in the first three cycles New
(10:08):
Zealand when a men's gold medal, in fact, we'll only
get one medal from those three games, I think everyone
would have been pretty surprised.
Speaker 6 (10:16):
Yeah, big time.
Speaker 5 (10:17):
And if you think about the exposure that Seven's gives
rugby on a global stage, You've seen, you know, clips
blow up online, people go viral, particularly in the woman's scene.
It is a major stage and you know, New Zealand
rugby is in this space where it's all about building
its brand and capitalizing on global fans and all these
(10:39):
sorts of things. So from that perspective you could argue
that this is quite damaging.
Speaker 6 (10:44):
You know, from a men's side of things.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
A results a black jersey on the world stage, you know,
very underwhelming.
Speaker 6 (10:52):
So how do they feel about that? What are they
going to do?
Speaker 5 (10:56):
You know, when you talk about different athletes that are
out there attending Nino Sotutro, you know, Sean Stevenson, even
some of the nippier halfbacks going around the scene, they
would all have an impact if they were allowed a
decent lead in time, but it just doesn't seem to
be a lure. So I think it does need a rethink.
(11:19):
It does need to be really prioritized. And it is
such a major event once every four years that it's
not about investment, but I think it does need some
real attention and priority given to it.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
Yeah, that's going to be fascinating.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Right. Let's move on to the Rugby Championship and the
All Blacks. I'm in Wellington, you're gitting down tomorrow to
the Capitol and we have an All Black squad selected
a little bit a week ago for the Rugby Championship,
which has already been tinkered with with Scott Barrett out injured,
Harry Plummer, Cordon his cover for Stephen Petafetta who's carrying
a niggle ARDSRV is going to be the captain if
(11:57):
we go back a few days to win.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
The squad was named.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I guess that the big story was Finlay Christie not
being included in the squad of thirty six or one
of the three half backs. When we did our rankings
of our half backs last time out, we missed him
both out in our top three and I think we're
on the same wavelength as Scott Hansen and Scott Robertson
there evidently, Liam.
Speaker 6 (12:22):
I think it's been a long time coming.
Speaker 5 (12:23):
Elliott to a degree, Finlay's you know, we've talked about
his defensive qualities, but with the next Cropper halfbacks coming through,
he got usurped very quickly, didn't He His hesitation at
the base, Some of his kicking game was a bit errants,
and just that the pace and the accuracy that I
(12:46):
think the All Blacks want and have done for such
a long time, he doesn't really fit that mold.
Speaker 6 (12:52):
So for me it was a bit of a surprise.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
But just because of how conservative Scott Robertson and this
All Blacks coaching team have been to this point three
tests into their tenure, very conservative baby steps forward, and
I guess Finley was a guy that they inherited, but
courtiers that Artema Noah Hotham really went past them, and
(13:15):
he was probably going head to head with TJ. Pedara
for you know, that one experienced head in the half
back ranks. I guess the only other major talking points
from that squad was Will Jordan and Sam Kin coming
back any any sort of surprise there for you.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Look, I was a little bit surprised to see Sam
kin selected just on the basis and I guess that
you could make the same argument now with t J
Peternaro who's going and we'll touch on that in a moment.
But they've had an eye to the future in a
lot of ways with some of those selections they made
for the Rugby Championship around half back. Apart from TJ
(13:51):
of course, but they're almost like, well, looking a little
bit backwards, I think with Sam Kain Now, I get
you've got to live in the hero and now and
and when the Test matches in front of you, But
at the same time he has signaled he's leaving at
the end of the year. I'm not saying you can't
pick it necessarily, but just one with a just a
little bit of a backward step necessarily keeping him around
(14:14):
and ends not allowing him just to have a clean break.
I don't know, it just feels like it's perhaps a
tat unnecessary when they could be blooding someone new or
bringing someone new in. I get why you want him
in there. He's had ninety five caps of experience with
the All Blacks. I used to wonder whether maybe the
time was right to look at someone new.
Speaker 5 (14:35):
It's a delicate one, isn't it, Because if you are
planning for the future, you know you could argue someone
like a Peter Luckeye would would be gain more value
from being in that squad. I heard suggestions that Sam
kin at the start of the year was told he's
likely to get to one hundred caps, and then there
are a few whispers that maybe he was on the
(14:56):
cusp of missing out on the squad. So I don't
know quite where that ends up, but I guess what
are we six nine months ago sam Kine played his
best test for the in that World Cup quarterfinal against Ireland.
If he can produce that, he is thoroughly deserving of
his place. But then he is leaving at the end
of the year. So from an open side perspective, you know,
(15:20):
wouldn't you be better off investing in someone else, giving
them a chance to gain experience and s build a
combination with the loose forward trio.
Speaker 6 (15:29):
So it is a very delicate one.
Speaker 5 (15:31):
But I guess the All Blacks have to win every
test and Scott Robinson clearly sees Sam Kaine as being
a valuable a set to have around, you know, from
a leadership perspective as much as anything else in the background.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Probably speaking of leadership, Scott Barrett out injured for the
first two Tests of the year for the Rugby Championship.
Excuse me, Ardie Savilla predictably named as captain for the
next couple of weeks. Cody Taylor elevated into the vice
captaincy alongside Jordi Barrett this week. Look, I think no
surprise is there in terms of that, but it is
a loss at line out time for the All Blacks
(16:07):
not having Scott Barrett there. He played in all three
tiests obviously to start the season, so he's going to
set out the next two. The word is right for
South Africa if you hear Jason Ryan's assistance at the
media session today. So it's kind of interesting to see
the All Blacks this week, isn't it? Around the selections
at Locke Patrick Deuypilotto and who partners him in the
second row to face Argentina.
Speaker 6 (16:29):
You presume to Bouvia would go in there.
Speaker 5 (16:32):
Sam Derry obviously in the squad as well, but look
at the lineout was vast improved against Fiji, but was
extremely vulnerable up against Maro at Toji and England. So
it is a concern to lose your best lineout's ball winner,
your captain. And it is an interesting scenario for Scott
(16:54):
as well because he's had such a patchy year, you know,
missed along most of the vast majority of the season
for the Crusaders with their back injury and now a
finger while he's trying to establish himself as All Black captain,
so not ideal to be side lined again.
Speaker 6 (17:10):
He'll be chomping at the bit to get back for
the box.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
But I think the Pumas, if they were doing their homework,
they'll be coming straight for the All Blacks lineout to
put that under some heat and see if they can
get some pay from that area.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Also, Harry Plumber called an as cover for the injured
Stephen Petifitz. A nice reward for Harry Plumber who had
a very good Super Rugby season and gets perhaps an
opportunity or sit in the opportunity to show what he
can do. Rubin Love selected obviously for this campaign as well,
but the All Black signaling maybe they just need an
(17:42):
extra ten and looking to give Harry Plumber a little
bit of experience.
Speaker 5 (17:47):
Yeah, good reward, isn't it for a guy that guided
the Blues unheralded playmaker for a number of years, guided
the Blues a very special title for them. And I
guess the guy that offers a bit of versatility is
a bigger ten can cover twelve, so you know, quite
desirable from a bench perspective, and Rubin Love very happy
(18:07):
to see him include out and out attacking weapon, genuine
fullback and probably one step closer to a debut with
Stephen Peterfitzer, Nursing and Nigel And of course he started
those two tests at fallback against England, so pretty much
going head to head, I guess with Bowden Barrett for
you know, maybe some game time in the backfield.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
What do we expect from Argentina? Liam, I guess they
were well beaten by France in the first Test of
the year and undemanded. France then bounce back to beat
them in the second week and then thump Uriguy seventy
nine to five in the third week of the International
Block in July. What do we expect from Argentina as
(18:52):
they show up here? Last time they were in New Zealand,
they beat New Zealand in christ Church and that shock result,
then with thump the week after. But do they have
the ability to go out and give them a bit
of a tickle up at sky Stadium on the weekend.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
I think they'll be competitive, but they are an unknown
quantity out't there new coach?
Speaker 6 (19:11):
Post World Cup?
Speaker 5 (19:12):
I guess a bit of change that series against France
really hard to get a read on the French send
out a second string team had some a number of
issues off the field as well, so hard to know
quite where the Pumas are at. But they are a
team that will challenge you hard at the breakdown. They'll
contest in the air, they'll they'll play a lot of rugby,
(19:32):
will offload. So the All Blacks have been vulnerable at
the breakdown when you go back to that England series
and their inability I guess to produce lightning quickball and
secure their own their own pill So I think the
Pumas will come hard and fast there. But look, you'd
(19:52):
expect the All Blacks at this stage to win and
win reasonably comfortably. But you probably would have said the
same about that result in christ Church, so you never
ruled anything out in this climate.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Do you you don't speaking of this climates if you
change or a few cummings and goings. So over the
last couple of weeks, t Je Petenara departing after this year,
Dold and Papa Leti re signing through to twenty twenty seven,
calib Clark sticking around for twenty twenty five. What stands
out from those three putting pen to paper either in
(20:25):
New Zealand or going abroad Limb.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
I guess by and large, good business from New Zealand
rugby's perspective, isn't it.
Speaker 6 (20:32):
Caleb Clark?
Speaker 5 (20:33):
I guess you'd question why only one year extension he
leaves his options open. Hasn't really had a great crack
at the All Blacks left wing Jersey.
Speaker 6 (20:46):
I think he deserves it.
Speaker 5 (20:47):
At this point the All Blacks were sort of exposed
under the high ball with the crossfield kicks against England's.
Speaker 6 (20:52):
That's where an area he's really proficient.
Speaker 5 (20:55):
But he's talked about, you know, fluting with the idea
of going to rugby league. So maybe if he doesn't
get a serious crack over the next eighteen months, maybe
he will deflect. I think he would be a real
success in the Dolon Papolli, no real surprise committing through
to the next World Cup. We mentioned Sam Kine moving
on at the end of this year, so there's a
(21:16):
real open avenue to that. All Blacks open side Jersey
and TJ Peinar, I guess, no major surprise. I think
he was actually contracted next year. But he signed on
a three year deal with the Black Rams in Japan.
And it makes sense, doesn't it to cash in at
this stage of his career, having battle back from eighteen
(21:37):
months success of Achilles injuries, coming off off the back
of another knee injury. But it is he's got till
the end of the year, and I know it would
have been a really tough decision for a guy that's
extremely competitive. Do you think had he stuck around that,
you know, I guess maybe he was in danger of
(21:59):
being overtaken.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
I think that was definitely part of it for him.
And you look at the players that are coming through now,
and I'm sure he didn't sign the contract the last
two weeks since Noah Hotham made his debut, but I
think he probably got a sense that there were some
good young halfbacks coming through and he would be usurped
at some point, and I think he's given plenty to
(22:21):
New Zealand rugby, backed up Aaron Smith for a number
of years, played a lot of those tests off the
bench and controlled the last twenty minutes and finished the
games for the All Blacks. So I think he can
be very proud of his career, proved himself both proved
that he could make it back both to himself and
to the rugby world after that injury, making it back
(22:41):
this year with the All Blacks number one for a point,
and may still go out as the All Blacks number one,
depending on how the rest of the year shakes down.
But I think there's probably a realization that the cam
Roy guard Colled, Thesraziman, Noah Hothams of the world are
coming for that number nine and number twenty two Jusey
or twenty one Jewsey, I should say. So he's made
the call to go out on his terms, and good
luck to him. I think it's it's the right call
(23:02):
for him. Interesting as well to see that dearly signed
can include some coaching expertsperience towards the back end, so
that's interesting for future and down the track and how
that might play out for TJ. Caleb Clark. I mean
the one you deal for me is interesting because that
(23:23):
does leave that league door right open. He's a big
fan of South Sydney. He's talked about that. It would
not surprise me to see him go to Rugby League
after that. Before we take a break here on Rugby
Direct and finish up the first half of our podcast,
just some intel. We've got spies everywhere on the ground, lamb,
don't we. The Rugby Director community is very very good
(23:44):
at sharing what they're seeing out there, and I had
some intel on Friday that Richiemonger and Scott Hansen we
were seen having a coffee and then also seen on
the sidelines of the Tasman Southland game in christ Church,
the NPC build up game, and I think they met
(24:05):
halfway Tasman in Southland, but Richie Moonger on the sideline
there alongside Scott Hansen, Scott Robertson and Thomas E.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Ellison. So make of that what you will.
Speaker 5 (24:17):
It's all right, So what is it the gc SB,
the government spy agency. Least to say, Rugby Direct's got
its own people in the wings and.
Speaker 6 (24:29):
Little lasers out in the community.
Speaker 5 (24:30):
So it's not a surprise, is that that Richie's engaged
with all Blacks management. Given you know what we've heard
over the last eighteen months, but very good intel from
u LA and I would expect nothing less than you
tapping into the christ Church community.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
That's right, yeap, keep it coming. We will take any
oil if you want to send it our way. Right,
We'll take a break here on Rugby Direct. Come back
with the final four after this.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
The Rugby Direct.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Howard Badies talk it, call yourself a real Rugby fan.
This is Rugby Direct.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
You're back with Rugby Direct powered by Excess Solutions. Time
now for our final four. On the podcast four Rugby Topics,
myself and Liam debate them. Topic one Liam, this came
out as a result of Anton DuPont and if it's
with the French seven sides which was a big reason
why they won and a suggestion on x formerly Twitter
(25:31):
that he was the greatest player of all time. Where
do you stand on this?
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Is he.
Speaker 6 (25:37):
Look in short? No, he's not.
Speaker 5 (25:39):
I think Aaron Smith summed it up nicely for me.
He tweeted that he's the greatest player of this generation.
I think he certainly has claims to that, but I
think whenever there's something front and center like the Olympics,
like Anton DuPont making a seamless transition to the sevens.
We talked about some of the athletes in New Zealand
(26:01):
that haven't managed that.
Speaker 6 (26:02):
So look, he's a phenomenal talent.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
He can kick off both feet, he is change the
game from a halfback perspective. He really does do it all.
But he also hasn't done a lot. He hasn't spent
a lot of time playing in the Southern Hemisphere. He
hasn't won a World Cup, and this is you know,
he can only do so much from an individual perspective.
But when you go back to the World Cup, I think,
(26:26):
reflecting on his performance in that quarter final when the
spring box pit the French, there were moments in that
match where he wasn't very composed in the white hot
heat of a home World Cup, a knockout match, and
so I think, you know, he's one top fourteen titles,
he's won an Olympic gold. But for me, he's still young,
he's still got a bit to prove, he's still got
(26:47):
a bit to do to get to.
Speaker 6 (26:49):
That goat status.
Speaker 5 (26:50):
But it is a very strange debate, isn't it to
compare players, compare generations, but for me, he's not quite
there yet.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
No, I think he's there yet either.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Agreed he's the best player of the current generation, but
a few question marks in terms of he barely plays
outside out of Europe all the six nations, to be
quite honest, and only plays in France very rarely tours.
We won't see him in New Zealand. I wouldn't have
thought next year. It's been pretty much confirmed on that.
I think you have to. It's kind of like cricket.
(27:21):
You can't just score all your runs at home. You
kind of have to score abroad to be considered as
one of the greats. If you can score away from
home and unfamiliar conditions, then you can be called one
of the greats depending on your record. So I think
he's still got to do that. The sevens think, yep,
he was a big factor in why France won that,
(27:42):
but he wouldn't have played sevens if it wasn't in France.
It was a publicity stunt more than anything. In many ways,
I thought like good on him for doing it, and
the good on him for the French Rugby Federation and
to lose allowing him to do it and making it happen,
but it was by and larger publicity stunt. He wasn't
going to play if it was an LA he won't
be backward in the four and four years time. So
(28:03):
that was a moment to try and effectively. Listen, ticket
sales that started to France and it worked. Very very
good player. I think it's still some question marks and yeah,
I just think, you know, you kind of do have
to win a World Cup or at least be in
contention for a World Cup to be considered one of
(28:24):
the great So I think he's the best player on
the planet, maybe just alongside artisav at the moment, but
there's still a long way for him to go to
be considered the greatest of all time. Topic number two.
Some sad news for our friends and Kutter with the
news there but has been to host the nation's championship
final weekend has been rejected. What do you make of this, Lamb.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
Yes, I've been in undated actually from Rugby Direct fans
and kat that's big and pause pause to poise sorry
to buy tickets for the grand weekend that that was touted. Look,
I am quite surprised in the current climate of financial
strife across world rugby, that these unions didn't take the
(29:10):
money and run and turn a blind eye to, you know,
all the human rights issues surrounding Qatar, and basically came
down to us the usual split North feast South. So
from what I've read in a number of different outlets,
(29:30):
Island and France rejected it, and effectively they only need
one union to say no. On this occasion, there was
a split among the Southern hemisphere nations and it's caused
a real rift with the South who were absolutely dead
keen to take the money to get the bail out,
to have the guaranteed purses for the next what was it,
twelve years, So it doesn't sound like there's any comparable
(29:53):
bids from a financial perspective. But I also think I
think it's a good move because this nation's championship could
have fallen over in its first instance if you're playing
in front of no One, and that was a real
risk with that proposal, and so I think it's I'm
glad they're not going there. I think it would have
(30:14):
been all about the money, and it's going to be
really interesting to see where it does end up.
Speaker 6 (30:19):
Now.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
Yeah, I'm not how do I put this.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
I think there is a risk now I think it
probably it may fall over the entire concept. Now I
know they have agreed this whole thing. I don't have
any intel to back that up, but I just think
that I'm not sure who's going to come forward to
bankroller this is a money spinner for these unions. I'm
not sure we'll see it in its original format. Maybe
(30:44):
now I don't know. It fels like that was the
you know, the deal that was on the table. To
be honest, that wouldn't have worried me if they went
if the head through cutter everything so far gone on
sport washing, like, what's another one? And to add to
the list.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
You know, the empty crowds thing doesn't really wash with me,
I don't think, because if it's at the United States,
is a real risk it's empty over there. You take
it anywhere else in Europe. I don't know that it's
going to get full crowds that they seem to think
it will. Certainly outside the rugby nations like for example Spain,
you might get a crowd for the big final game,
(31:20):
but I don't, you know, you get it for Day
one and the twelve v twelve playoff or whatever it is.
So yeah, I can see why they rejected it. I'm
intrigued to see whether there's any deal that comes along
that that stacks up that could make it work for
these unions now. But you know, it's interesting to see
(31:41):
France and Iland hold themselves to a higher par than
perhaps the other ten unions. So we wait with beta
breath to see if someone else comes forward. I mean,
they're not necessarily running out of time, but they want
to take this to market, don't They liam to the
TV broadcasters to have it in their back pocket and
have some certainty about where it's going to be held,
and at the moment they don't have that to take
to broadcasters, with New Zealand Rugby, for instance, their TV
(32:03):
deal up at the end of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
Yeah, you're right there, there are some big to overcome now,
and I think I agree that I don't think we
will see it as a finals weekend because currently they
need to negotiate compensation for the French clubs, European clubs
in particular for an extra weekend to stage that. So
I think what you'll see now as a one off
final perhaps in Spain or Germany or one of those
(32:29):
big iconic football stadiums trying to maximize the revenue. But yeah,
I think there's massive hurdles to overcome and that's why
by all accounts, the southern Hemisphere nations South Africa, Australia
and New Zealand. I think Argentina are well as well,
are actually going as far to seek compensation from the
North for vetoying this deal. So big ructions again nothing
(32:52):
new in terms of Northeast South. But you know when
you look across the ditch at Australia in an incredibly
periless state, the states are pretty high.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Certainly are watch this space on that one. Speaking of Australia,
our friends across the Tasman, can the Wallabies stop the
spring By in the opener this weekend in Brisbane? The
funny thing about the strong Box they actually don't have
the best of records in Australia touring there over the
last way while if more losses than you would think.
But how do you see this going this weekend? Is
(33:23):
Jochmit gonna tip up Rassi in the first meeting between
the two, I.
Speaker 5 (33:27):
Don't think so. No, it is a bit of a
bizarre one though, isn't it. Maybe the Box there's a
bit of an arrogance there. When they go to Ossie,
they just expect to roll in and roll out, and
the world champions in the in the current state, you
would expect them to do just that, But funny, funnier
things have happened. I think Australia are still finding their feet.
(33:49):
I don't think they've selected all their best players. Are
still you know, the world skeletons of the world aren't
going to feature. I think against the Box, he's going
to come back for the for the Pumas. So I
think the Wallabies are still very much work in progress,
so I expect the Box to win that.
Speaker 6 (34:03):
Let me put this to you earlier. So the Rugby Championship.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
I think something like six out of the last seven
years the All Blacks have won the title.
Speaker 6 (34:12):
Who wins it this year?
Speaker 3 (34:15):
I think South Africa wins it this year. I think
they'll I think New Zealand and several will split their
tests in South Africa.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
I think South Africa.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Will win both against the Wallabies and I just think
they might get that one extra win perhaps in the
All Blacks to win the Rugby Championship. I don't see
Australia or Argentina contending for line honors this time around.
I'm going to give it to the Box.
Speaker 6 (34:41):
You.
Speaker 5 (34:43):
I think the Box start favorites because hosting those two
tests against the All Blacks. But if feel Blacks can
have a couple of big wins against the Wallabies and
Pumas get a few bonus points at the Box, maybe
struggle to get it could be a very very tight
run thing all right.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
And finally on rugby direct Provincial rugby at its finest
gets underway this weekend, the NPC and the far Palmer Cup.
Liam give us a winner for both of the competitions.
Speaker 5 (35:13):
Gone, oh, here we go. I'm gonna tip Wellington of course.
And the men's have got Billy Proctor back. They've blind
the check book again like like they're not meant to.
Canterbury looks strong, they're no stand out first five, so
I think they'll contind Auckland strong as well, and and
(35:35):
the women's are will will tip Auckland's.
Speaker 6 (35:39):
I think Philly settled squads.
Speaker 5 (35:41):
I've actually got a mates been been Ben who was
involved with the Ponti eighty five hustlers involved with the
Auckland team, so hopefully gives me some good intel and
they get up.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
For the NPC, I'm going to say Auckland, that squad
is seriously stacked, really really is you look at those
players across the park. I think Auckland wins the n
P m PC and I'm reckoning Canterbury will in the
f PC. It's coming back home in the f PC.
So that's that's good news. Great to hear Wellington's sort
of overspending again. That's that's really really good news.
Speaker 5 (36:18):
Warms the heart, doesn't it? Almost as much as Rob
Penny Coming back to.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
I was trying to like, I deliberately did not put
this on the document to discuss because I just did
not want to.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
I can't bring myself to talk about it. What are
they doing?
Speaker 6 (36:33):
Happy days? Happy days.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
On that note, that's probably about it for Rugby Direct.
Looking forward to this weekend live commentary by the way,
news Talks hereb gold Sport, iHeartRadio, All Blacks Argentina from
sky Stadium and Wellington. You can read all about it
on inzi here, dot co, dot z. That will do us.
For Rugby Direct from the Capitol now thanks to Lars
and Bars English. We will see you next time on
Rugby Direct, powered by Excess Solutions, elevating you and your
(36:57):
business to a higher level.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
For more from News Talks B listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
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