August 11, 2024 • 35 mins
This week on Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier review the All Blacks' stunning defeat against Argentina in Wellington and dig into how it happened and what needs to be changed for the rematch against Los Pumas at Eden Park this weekend. We also put some perspective into the reason behind so many empty seats at Sky Stadium.
We also pick through the highlights of the opening round of the NPC and Farah Palmer Cup, the Springboks win over the Wallabies and Twickenham's surprising name change.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
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Yet inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct
with Elliott Smith powered by Newstalks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Forklift Solutions, lifting you
and your business to a higher level.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
We're back for another week back in.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Auckland, Elliott Smith with me, Liam Napier from the New
Zealand Heralds and Liam Well. The All Blacks are spitting
after their first loss under head coach Scott Robertson going
down thirty eight thirty to Argentina in Wellington.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
I don't think a loss that many predictors.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Again, Argentina put in New Zealands on the back foot
at home and claiming the win. Your reaction, I guess
to that defeat first and foremost from an All Blacks perspective.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
My reaction look fairly shocked. I think is probably the
best way to summon up ellis windy and whild week
in Wellington, wasn't it, as you mentioned, a result that
nobody saw coming. Really the Pumas, I'm certain, clearly had
belief that they could pull that off. And pull it off.
They did. Look, I guess there were on reflection signs
(01:24):
that this All Black team were a bit shaky and
vulnerable throughout July, that the romp against Fijis side in
San Diego. They were very unconvincing against England's actually had
some criticism for being too hard on them. You know,
I'm saying that they had some escapes. Well, look, there
(01:44):
were clearly vulnerabilities there and they've been brought to a
head again. This is a massive reality check, isn't it.
I think when you take a step back, this is
a group that is finding their feet. They haven't been
together that long. But look, Razor Robson came in. He's
been painted as a bit of a messiah in some
parts after what he did with the Crusaders phenomenal record.
(02:06):
How much of a reality check is this for Razor
and his coaching group.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Well, I think it has to be a severe one
for them because they were out coached, outplayed on the
weekend and for me, I'm struggling to see what the
game plan is from the All Blacks perspective. England got
them into an army wrescole convincingly in that both of
those two tests and New Zealand couldn't escape Fiji aside,
(02:33):
the same thing happened against Argentina. The opposition teams at
the moment seem to have a very very good way
of bringing New Zealand into an arm wrestole, realizing that
the All Blacks don't like it. The All Blacks want
to play with front football, they want to play fast,
and when the All Blacks can't, they struggle to get
their game going. Other teams seem more comfortable playing in
the arm wrestle than the All Blacks seem to be,
(02:54):
So I think there needs to be from an All
Blacks perspective, you almost need to walk towards it. Now
you have this theme this together together, we walk well,
you almost need to walk towards that arm wrestle and go.
If this is what we're going to be dragged into,
here's how we do it. Here's how we get out
out of it. But what we saw on the weekend
was a lot of scrambling from the All Blacks, a
lot of unconvincing kicking, a lot of headless and brainless
(03:19):
passing at times from the All Blacks. That one that
stands out to me is that one around the sixty
sixth minute where there were two passes back from about
fifty meter mark after a lineout steal I think mom
was SV and then another one went back into the
end goal. Recora Juana has to force it in their
goal Argentine to get the ball and then score eventually
from that. So they lack an ability I think when
(03:40):
they do get into an arm wrestil. Now, obviously they
got two wins against England and managed to win the
arm wrestle in the end on Saturday night, they didn't
against Argentina. So one was struggling to see what the
game plan is from the All Blacks, and two when
they had drawn into an arm wrestle against opposition, they
are struggling to find a way to get out of it.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
There's a few things to unpack, it, aren't they. I
I think there's a lack of leadership. Where I see
that most evident is at the back end of that game. Now,
against England, the All Blacks found a way to escape
at Eden Park. It was Boden Barrack pretty much single
handedly pulling them out of the bag there. But in Dunedin,
had Marcus Smith kick better, they could have well lost
(04:23):
both of those tests against England.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
It really was that fraud.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Now you go to Wellington and against the Pumas and
the All Blacks have been together longer. It's only five
weeks or so, but the minimum expectation was progress they
and they regressed in several areas against England. They were
very proficient under the high ball. England targeted them there
and the wings were good. Their kicking game at times
(04:48):
was good. And then you look at the Pumas and
either they didn't plan for it, they didn't execute. They
could not escape their twenty two at times with the
Pumas long deep kickoffs. TJ Perrenara running taking a number
of steps with his box kick got charged twice. There
was another occasion where they were throwing the ball wild
(05:09):
offloads and they're twenty two to try and get out.
I think it was Mark t Leah caught the ball.
So that's a clear area of focus. But the lack
of leadership I think in the you we speaking about
those passes. Artie Severe and Damian McKenzie made those passes.
They weren't Wallace a Titi and Cortez Ratima. Those are
(05:29):
two of your most experienced figures on the park, influential
characters and those uncharacteristic eras sever Reese with the tap
back just before halftime. These are unforced eras. This is
not the Puma's applying huge amount of heat in certain areas,
and they did that, but these are unforced eras brain
explosions from the All Blacks and we shouldn't be seeing
(05:51):
that at this level. So I think a real spotlight
on the on field leadership. Are the All Blacks implementing
a game plan? Is there a disconnect between players and coaches?
Is it an accuracy or execution thing. There's a number
of things for them to amend in the space of
seven days.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
There are, and I think we'll get into the selection
stuff in a moment or two, but I think that
game plan is not really becoming clear. You'd think by
game four you'd know, Okay, this is the way the
All Blacks want to play. And we tooked a couple
of months back before they even played their first test
around what we saw from Scott Robinson and the Crusaders,
(06:31):
and that wasn't a run at all cost strategy. It
was based on forward work, It was based on getting
in the right areas of the ground and using the
strengths there like the line out drive like the scrum
and getting into the right areas of the ground initially
and then backing your backs to do the work once
you were there. But there wasn't a flashy thing. Now
it seems like they're trying to get out of trouble,
(06:52):
the battling to get out of trouble. When they do,
it's more a sigh of relief than anything, and they
don't progress after that. It's more like, Okay, well we've
managed to get out of that hole, but there's no
thought of how do we actually get into the twenty two,
how do we build some attack. I think the opportunities
to sustain pressure or build pressure in the twin too
were few and far between. From the All Blacks in Wellington.
They just didn't do it for long enough, and when
(07:14):
they did, Mark t Lee was rewarded with a try
when the Fords went up the middle. And I suppose
this is an good opportunity as any to get into
some potential changes, but I think they're missing a ball
carrier in the Fords.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
We saw. I thought Sam Dowry played very well in
the line out and.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Also carried wise, but I think Ethan blackadd had a
quiet testalled and Papali as well. I think they're missing
a ball carrier there now, whether that's Samma penny Fee
now for me and I don't know whether they would
think about doing this, but I think they should seriously
consider it as moving Ardie Savia to open side Flanka
and bring in Wallace a TT at number eight. For me,
(07:49):
that gives you a dynamic ball carrier in Wallace to TT.
But you've still got Ardi there. He can do a
lot of the work. It doesn't all fall on his shoulders.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
A lot of that.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
On Saturday night we saw him making a lot of
carries trying to get some go forward for the team
with Wallacer TT there. He's a player capable of doing so.
We saw that during the Chief season, very very young.
But I think it's worthy of a consideration at least
to go with that because the Fords just aren't punching
Ford hard enough to build that sustained pressure and get
(08:18):
the all blacks at front football and getting over the
advantage line. They've been pushed backwards more often than not.
There were times on the weekend where they would get
near to the twenty two one attack and then all
of a sudden they be pushed back to the ten
meter mark one halfway. So for me that's mitigated some
What if you bring in some more ball carriers and
that loose for trier a.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
Couple of points to pick up on there. I'll start
with the loose forwards. I agree with you that the
balance and composition of the All Blacks loose forwards is
not right. And Dalton Papa le ethan blackheader, and Luke
Jacobson who was unavailable with hamstring injury at the weekend
are very similar players. They are great defenders, they high
(08:59):
work great, but they are not big ball carriers. And
with Ardie, I thought played well at the weekends from
a ball carrying perspective, but that the composition is out there,
so I agree with you that that needs a serious look.
Do they look at Sam Kine. He's not necessarily a
(09:19):
ball carrier, but he is a very abrasive character. And
one area where the All Blacks have consistently struggled this
year against England and the Pumas is the breakdown. They
knew the Pumas were coming there and they couldn't counter it.
That the Pumas had great success on turnover possession. They
scored their first try off a turnover. Pablo Monteta went
(09:43):
across the field and delivered the short ball for their
first try. Their second try came off counter attack as well,
so very good in transition. But they found a lot
of success slowing the All Blacks ball, frustrating them in
that regard. So they need to amend their breakdown and
that's not a new issue for this All Black group.
And the second is when we look at ball carriers,
(10:05):
it's not just the loose forwards, and so you probably
seeing someone like a Patrick to Polotu as well in
the second row. Like you say, Sam Darry was excellent.
I think the All Blacks won their first fourteen lineouts,
so their lineout was exceptional, but then it completely shat
the beds when it mattered most in the last quarter
when a suffer more come on came on, missed two
(10:26):
lineout throws. Now, the All Blacks have a specialist lineout
throwing coach in Corey Flynn, so this is an area
that should be proficient.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, but has never been a great lineout thrower. That's
always been a weakness of him. And to go right,
you're working with Corey Flynn. It's not magically going to
sort that out in a matter of three weeks.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
It's not. But let me put this to and look.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
It's all like the Hurricanes are ebited. This mine out
set peak coach.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
This might be harsh, but if a halfback couldn't hit
his target, would he be in the All Blacks?
Speaker 3 (10:54):
No? And that's the thing with it.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I think that there's a very shallow depth in terms
of hooker at the moment with the SAMASONI Takeyah out
injured as well. Atom a great ball carrier, impressive ball carrier,
but lineout throwing has been a weakness to his entire career.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
It's always the knock on them.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
Yep, totally.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
And when you're on the bench, in particular as a hooker,
you are going to be coming on in these pressure
moments when there's two points in a match, when you
need to come back, when the set piece is extremely important,
and when we talk about the passing moment, the lineouts
were just as fundamental. And the All Blacks losing this
game two miss lineout throws when they were looking to
(11:35):
build field position and pressure completely took their foot off
the throat, So that's another area of concern. And just
one other point I want to pick up on that
you made there. The All Blacks looked their best when
they went up the guts, ye when they went pick
and drive close to the ruck when in the heart
of the of the pomas around the fringes, quick picking
drives direct. Mark Tala scored off at Antonlina Brown's try
(11:58):
came after the All Blacks made some real inroads up
the guts. So maybe they're guilty of actually trying to
play too much rugby at times and they just need
to tuck and drive and be a bit more simplus
a bit more aggressive, a bit more direct, because that's
when they actually look their best.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
It is, but they weren't getting into the right areas
of the ground either. Then that goes back to the
kicking of both Tja Padanara and Damien McKenzie. Now I
think McKenzie's head four tests now to stamp his mark
on the team.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
I don't think it's working.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Scott Robertson said yesterday that they will stick with him.
He's back to him into stay at ten for the
time being, but that they're lacking a lot through the
kicking game at the moment, and you see Jordie's in
there as well with kicking and Bote and Barrett as well,
but they're just not getting into the right areas of
the grant And that falls back into that nineteen twelve
fifteen of the All Blacks team to get them out
(12:51):
of their own twenty two and get them into the
opposition half. It's just not clicking at the moment from
a All Black suspective. And you know, they talk about
game management being a work on for Damien McKenzie, which
is all well and good, but he's played fifty one
tests now. He's played a lot, and I know he's
spent a lot of it coming off the bench, But
you shouldn't be going game management to work on when
(13:12):
you've clocked more than fifty tes thity country.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
I agree.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
The problem is the All Blacks don't have too many
levers to pull here. It's basically him or Boden, Barrett
and Bowden hasn't played ten for the All Blacks really
for the best part of two years, so there's no
guarantees that he's going to come in and flick the
switch either. So look, Damian McKenzie did some good things
in that game. There was a chip and chase for
(13:36):
Sam Darry's opening try, he delivered the skip ball for
Antolina Brown's try. I thought he did have some better
kicking moments in that match.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Later on. He drilled the ball long and deep a
couple of times.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
But I agree he's not the commanding presence and that
is costing the All Blacks, and I think there's issues
outside him as well. Jordi Barrett looks a bit off.
His impacts been really nullified so far this year. He's
finding and even looking for contact a lot rather than
running at weakshows. So whether that's you know, changing in
(14:12):
midfield partnerships, it could be multiple voices when you look
at Lea McDonald and Jason Holland effectively you know, two
backs coaches.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
Maybe some mixed messaging there, I'm not sure.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
So if we broaden the conversation out there, we're looking
at ten right with Damian McKenzie, Boden Barrett, and you
have to bring in Will Jordan to that conversation. I
think the All Blacks will try and include all three
of them this week, and perhaps they've been very clear
that they looked at Will Jordan as a fallback first,
but I would not be surprised to see him start
(14:46):
on the wing. He came on, played thirty minutes at
the weekend and again the All Blacks looked their best
when he was on the park, challenging the fringes. A
couple of inside balls they got denied Damien McKenzie's try
for the Ford pass. I think there was actually an
obstruction for Fletcher news around that as well, but he
brought real impacts. So for me this weekend be looking
(15:08):
at Will Jordan and Caleb Clark on the wings. I
think Jordan has to come into this team because the
attack is really struggling to find that spark and penetration
as well.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
So you wouldn't have Mark t Leer in this week.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
No, I don't think so severe Reese I wouldn't have
selected last week. And I just think they need to change.
Mark to Leer didn't offer a lot for me at
the weekend. There's that's perhaps been a bit knee jerk.
You know, Mark de Leier has been in good form,
but I just think that they need to find some sparks,
some changes.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
From what you say, from what we've had from Scott
Scott Robertson and Dame McKenzie is going to remain at ten.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
What about halfback?
Speaker 4 (15:51):
That's very straightforward for me. I personally, I wouldn't have
started TJ last week and there's a number of reasons
for that. I thought he the difference in speeds both
to the base and with pass was very evident when
Cortes are to ma and Noah Hotham came into the
mix after his injury in the first Test against englm
(16:13):
TJ's also leaving at the end of the year, so
to start a guy and stick with him doesn't make
a lot of sense.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
T J Penina has played his best rugby for the
All Blacks when he's come off the bench. He's played
the majority of his career behind Aaron Smith, and I
think he's only started maybe a quarter. Roughly of his
tests have been starts, the rest have come off the bench.
He's been that changed for the All Blacks. It's a
different kettle of fish starting, especially doing it as you say,
at the back end of his All Blacks career. For me,
(16:42):
you start with Quartez Raetimer and you bring on t
J Peninara as quite unquite an insurance policy off the bench.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
Who can we very experienced had to bring.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Close out a game. That's for me the way you
go about it. You've got Noah Hotham who's waiting in
the wings as well. But for where you got the moment,
I think t J Peninah is the kind of player
that you bring off the bench and just settle things
down or whatever you the tempo of the game needs
at a certain point. That's been his skill set. He's
been very very good at at then asking him to
start and yus he's waited a long time for it.
(17:11):
Starts in All Blacks Jersey behind Aaron Smith, who I
think we usually touched on.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
We had him on the pod. You know.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
It was very very lucky with injuries, didn't have many
during his career, so he's had to wait for the chance.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
I get that.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
But his success has been closing out games and that's
where I think he should be selected this week is
in that twenty one Jersey to close out the game.
Depending on how it looks. Full pack for you look,
I would like to see a black out of Sava
and well so Tt loose Ford Triger. I don't know
if they will go with that, but I think that's
worth considering. As I touched on before, what other changes
(17:43):
may be to the pack do you think could be
in the offing this week?
Speaker 4 (17:46):
Yeah, just going back to the TJ Courtiez debate, I
agree about the way around. I'd go Courtiz to start
TJ off the bench calm heads, but they're also they
both left foots, so Courtiers come in and the red
hot focus for the All Blacks this week is on
the kicking strategy, which they didn't get right. That does
(18:08):
place a lot of pressure on Cortez, young guy and experienced.
The Puma's going to come, you know, a lot of
pressure on him. So the All Blacks, their four pack
needs to get their blockers in so the halfbacks can clear.
And while he's great support play, good runner, very sharp
from the base, kicking is probably an ongoing work on
(18:30):
for him and Noah Hotham, so very interesting to see
how that plays out. I agree with you about the
loose Fords. I wouldn't mind some of Penny coming in
just for a bit of size. I thought he was
a bit of a scapegoat against England from a physicality perspective.
He was meant to be that enforcer and didn't bring that,
but name me one all black Ford that consistently physically
(18:53):
dominated that series against England didn't have one exactly. So
again he paid the price I think for that. So
I think whether he's on the bench or starting on,
like to see Sumer Penny coming to the mix, the
Alblacks don't really have anywhere else to turn in terms
of their locks, and I think to be fair, their
(19:15):
locks were good to Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
I thought Darien had good games.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Yeah, And there was a lot of variety with the
liner I mentioned before they won their first fourteen that
was with blackhead a severe Darry Tupouvai basically their whole
four pack winning ball at lineout times. So Tupouva tacked
that box. In terms of running the line out, Sam
Darry was the key target and he was very impressive.
(19:39):
I don't think you can fault the front row. There
wasn't a scrum for sixty minutes, which is busiz.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
We haven't touched on that. It was very very odd
and you look at the All Blacks in the Test
against England. They used that scrum as a weapon and
they use it to get themselves up the fields, earned penalties,
they and they just didn't get them on the weekends.
Now whether that was just an anomaly in terms of
just not being called, but it was quite bizarre seeing
Ethan to group and Tri Loomis trudge off the field
(20:06):
without having a scrum to worry about. And I saw
and the group say it was on the All Blacks
social media channels. He found it a hard game to
get into because there were no scrums and you can't
manufacture scrums, it can't make them happen to an extent
of opposition ball, but not having that using the game
was very very unusual.
Speaker 5 (20:23):
A bizarre.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
I can't really remember a test like it, and so
very hard for a prop to get into a game
without locking horns and getting down to you know what
they know and love. So I wouldn't make any changes
in the front row. Before we come to the All
Black's back line, I guess the bench probably lacked impact
other than Will Jordan, and that's where we probably expected
(20:47):
the All Blacks to come over the top of the Pumas.
And in fact it was the Pumas bench likes of
August and Crevy and others who really brought impact for them.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yeah, it was it was Crevy and Josh Glovey in
terms of their props. So I thought came on and
really added size and impacts. Craevy was everywhere. I thought
when he came on the part, he's thirty nine years
of age and he was just getting everywhere around it. Yeah,
I thought, Actually the bench when they selected it the
all Blacks, you go, okay, there's some explosiveness near with
(21:18):
Will Jordan, who is probably only a short term option
on the bench. Rico Yuwani, you could impact causes ms TSI,
but they just it's offer on more. It just didn't happen,
just didn't click, and with the lineup beginning to struggle
when Alma came on, things just didn't really get going.
So do you put Boden Barrett back to that bench
roll where he came in for the two tests against
(21:42):
England and maybe look to Peter Fetter come back in
at fifteen again, put Will Jordan back on the on
the right wing. Petter Fetta, we don't know if he's
fit again. Didn't sound like a major issue injury issue,
but maybe Peter Fetter's worth of another look, or do
you bring him off the bench. I think there is
an issue around the bench that it looked more explosive
than it actually delivered. But they need to get that
(22:02):
mix right.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
And even the timing of it.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
I think Rico Jani and Wallace the TT only you know,
ten to fifteen minutes. I'd like to see Setisi come
on a bit earlier. From an impact point of view.
What about the back club we've talked about, you know,
McKenzie at ten. One of the big selection talking point
last week was Antelena Brown and at center over Riquowhani,
(22:25):
who had been the first choice center for the past
four years. Essentially, do you envision any changes throughout the
back club look?
Speaker 3 (22:36):
I think.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
I think it on the wings or hide stick with
Mark Khalaire. I'd stick with him there, but we could
move him across to the.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Look. You stick with him at left wing, you can
move him to the right wing. He's that capable.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
But it depends around what you do with Will Jordan,
where you play him a right wing, where you start
Ham at fullback. Severy Reese I think probably just needs
a wee bit of a break, but again he's the
kind of player now they're pretty reluctant to use a
specialist winger on the bench. We've seen a few times
as the Crusaders. The view sever Reese as someone that
can inject in the last twenty two five minutes. He's
a kind of player that you can get over the ball.
(23:12):
He can just be that spark that maybe a look
to him. It handicaps you to an extent because you
don't get that utility value out of him, but maybe
you could look to bring him off the bench. For
Angelina Brown, I thought he had a good game without
being spectacular. It was a solid game for him, but
he got found out for the first try defensively wise,
(23:32):
so I think that's a work in progress.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
Yeah, I think he did enough to warrant another start.
It would be harsh to single out he made a
couple of line breaks, but you've got skin for that
Perma's opening try. So I don't think you want to
be chopping and changing combinations every week. But I think
that the Wings definitely need a look. And you mentioned
Peter Festa. I think that's that's a worthy conversation, but
I would be surprised if Boden Bear isn't. Then that
(23:56):
makes purely from a kicking vision perspective, which is going
to be a big focus for the All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
That'll do us So our first half of our podcast
with Rugby Direct, powered by friends at Forklift Solutions.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Back with the Sea half after this.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Rugby Direct, Howard Babies Talk.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
We're back now on Rugby Direct with our final four.
Let's get into these four rugby topics. Myself and Liam
Buller have a NATA about them all. Let's change focus
from the Internationals for a half moment. The highlights of
the opening ground of the Far Apartment Cup and the NPC.
What stood out to you, Liam.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Go oh great victory for title favorites as tipped by
yours truly well Itton that Ediden park.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Over the team that I tipped his title favorite talking.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
Yes, come up to the nine and produce a very
impressive performance. So great to see the Lions get off
to a good start. I watched Tartanuki Counties as well.
Josh Jacob resigned with the chief recently. Very impressive performance
from him and kenninga Hoolo on the wing south end.
Look it looked like they'd won the comp and then
(25:07):
the cargo Stag Day was going off with their victory
over Southlands. Great to hear Steve Divine bag Canterbury's five
rolling Wall tries in christ Church and and the far
a Palmer Cup big win from one umber two and
another title favourite tiped Auckland winning so and Canterbury lost.
Speaker 5 (25:26):
So a great day all round.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Okay, thanks link, but didn't didn't agree with Steve Divine's
comments on the rolling War. I thought it was a
thing of beauty seeing the Canada the Red and Black
Pack just surge over the tunny fur. I thought a
very interesting round. Southland winning on Stag Day over Ottiga
was genuine highlight. Can they back it up and get
the shield this weekend? It'd be great to see Hawks
(25:49):
Bay lose the shield. Treated it like rubbish. Couldn't happen
soon enough. So look if it's the Stags, good luck.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
To them this week.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
And the other thing that stood out to me as well,
we've got a storm week game Bay of plenty counties
on Wednesday night, but from a far Apartmer Cup Canterbury
would be one of the title favorites. Losing to County's
Monaco and losing relatively comfortable as well. Big big score
line forty seven to twenty four. The counties Manicer Heap
applying a bit of pressure on Canterbury. So good start
for them and not such a great one for Canterbury.
(26:25):
Topic number two in the final four. Can anyone stop
the spring Box and the Rugby Championship? No, no, they can't.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
Look, the Springboks are a better team now than they
were at the World Cup. The inclusion of Tony brown
sasha their first five that came in at the weekend.
He shanked his first penalty, which is a bit of
a shocker, but he brought another dimension to that team
and look it was completely one way traffic, wasn't it
And it was a real we're talking about rarely checked
(26:54):
for the All Blacks. Well, Joe Schmidt put the Wallabies
back in their place and it shows just where the
welch you're at as well. After that, very very impressive,
very imposing, domineering performance from the spring Box. Interesting to
see where they go with a selection where they get
a bit experimental. But look that just really shines the
(27:18):
spotlight on how important this week is for the All
Blacks because that two test tour of South Africa is
now looking increasingly daunting.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
It is very impressive.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
I thought the springbox is a great first try with
the line out split and that we passed back over
the top. I thought that was innovation that we don't
often see in this era of test rugby. Credit to
Russia Rasmus and his coaching team that are willing to
bring innovation into rugby. Sometimes you go seven to one bench,
it's a bit ridiculous, but at least they're thinking outside
the box. And Test rugby has become so homogenized, so
(27:50):
stale is not the word, but just predictable that when
you've got a coach challenging the norm, I think you've
got to embrace that. We saw chesleyn Colby feeding the
set peace all sorts of little things that he's thinking
outside the box and trying and find ways and space
is at such a premium on the park at the moment.
Defensive system are so good. You've got to think outside
the box and I think credit to Rassi Erasmus, they
(28:12):
found a way to do it.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
Look, and when we talk about you know Wellington being
a curse for the All Blackstone one in seven and
the Capitol haven't won there in six years, Well, the
Springboks have a horrific record in Australia, They've only won
thirty percent of their tests there. Some Cork Stadium was
a bit of a graveyard. It's the favorite spot from
a wallaby's perspective. Well, it almost looked and felt like
(28:37):
you're in South Africa with the amount of spring Box
fans and they completely put that to bed. So another
brick in the wall for a very impressive Springbox team.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Off to Perth this week as well, which is basically
South Africa in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
A lot of New Zealander and South Africans there.
Speaker 5 (28:53):
But the north shore of Auckland.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Yeah, that's right, so they'll get a good crowd I'm
sure at Perth Stadium. Topic three, what was the deal
with the crowd in Wellings? And I know people were
surprised by that. Look for me, I don't think it
was necessarily a surprise. It wasn't sold out. It does
reflect that there are some big challenges out there in
the rugby marketplace, but also the cost of living, you know,
Wellington with the big public sector doing it tough at
(29:17):
the moment and when I guess on the surface of it,
it is disrespectful to Argentina but there is that historic
rivalry with Australia. If you are a family that can go,
we can afford to go to one test this year,
which one do you go to? You peck Australia even
though they have not won in New Zealand saw for
such a long time. But there's just that historic thing
that you go with the Wallabies rather than Argentina. Maybe
(29:39):
results like Saturday Night will help do it, but there's
so many factors at play, the job losses in Wellington,
the rugby market as a whole, I don't know that
it can sustain two tests in a city outside of Auckland.
And also it's very very hard to get people to
leave the house in general, and they're battling to try
and present Argentina as a draw card. As I say,
(30:00):
results like Saturday Night might help that for Eden Park
this weekend, but also for beyond in future seasons.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
Yeah. I think you make some good points here about
the economic realities that we're living in right now.
Speaker 5 (30:11):
You can't get away from that.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
There's you know, people genuinely struggling, but in saying that
they were hawking off tickets for as low as fifty
bucks to the stems so cut price prices, you know
midweek there I think there were ten thousand tickets still
available on the Thursday, and it does speak to I
think an apathy and probably an arrogance among all black
(30:35):
fans when it comes to Argentina, who are a tough cell.
And I think New Zealand Rugby failed mister trick in
this regard. Like you say two Cess and Wellington, they
should have taken this game to Napier, Nelson, Hamilton, christ
Church somewhere else because the rally of the Pumas there
(30:58):
are a tough cell and they always have been perhaps
always will be unless they keep winning like this. And
Eden Park this week will not be sold out for
the same reason. And I think they've sold over twenty
five thousand, so they will get a better crowd. But
you get twenty five thirty thousand to eaton Park and
it still looks pretty average from a TV perspective. So
(31:19):
those are bad optics for a normal extent. It's the optics,
isn't it, Because what do they get in the end?
Twenty five thousand for look, that's probably they get. There's
a better crowd than they'd get in sand Napier or Nelson.
Maybe not so much at Hamilton, which will probably about
exactly what they get if they sold it out into Hamilton,
better than christ Church.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
But it's the optics. It's the empty state seats that
people look at. It doesn't matter that they've actually probably
got more tickets and bums through the abums on seats
than those venues.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
So yeah, I think they just kind of got it wrong.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Now, I think I don't know how with a venue
availability played a role into this, but you could probably
go there's a more of an except population with England.
You might have had one of those England tests in Wellington,
you played Argentina and Dunedin and just changed it up
that way. Now I don't know venue availability, but there
are ways you could sort of change things around to
make it look a bit better.
Speaker 5 (32:08):
Certainly a rethink needed in the future.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Speaking of rethink, you read it a topic four, read
a recall or start calling Twickenham Alian Stadium.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
No, that's a hard note for me.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
It's one of my favorite rugby venues and I suspect
no one outside the corporate world will be calling it's
what Alian's Twickenham. I think it will be Twickenham until
the day I die.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah, it's it's hard, it's a it's a you know,
it just doesn't feel right, doesn't Twickenham the amount of
they get through the gates at ticking'am, But it shows
that they're on financial straits that they have to hock off,
you know, Twickenham they are looking to maybe even sell
the whole thing as a joint last year I think
it was, but then and move into Wimbley. They decided
against that in the end, but shows that even you know,
(32:58):
the r if You are not immune to some of
these financial issues presented in our game at the moment.
And they're going with Alion Stadium. You're right, no one's
going to call it that outside of Alians and the
rif You. But it just does show you some of
the issues that they have getting money through the gate.
They've turned down the nation's championship proposal from Katza. It's
funny because Alians doesn't have a clean corporate history themselves,
(33:21):
but it seem there's a lot better to get the
money in that way then go to Doha.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
Yeah, and I think when you've got a big venue
like that, there are realities in terms of upkeep ticking
them has been around forever in a day, so I'm
sure it needs refurbishments and all those sorts of things.
Forsyth Bar Internedin just had or as in the process
of going through a big makeover, which is costly but
(33:45):
needs to be done to attract players and deliver the
sort of standards the All Blacks are out and the
n z CIS and Upper Heart which is not cheap,
but those are the sort of level of professionalism facilities
that that players demand these days. But yeah, in terms
of naming rights, I will always call Mount Smart Mount Smart,
(34:07):
not go Meetia, you know, call it Ericson, Ericson. So yeah,
in a sense, it's easy money, but you mess with
tradition in a sport like a conservative sport like rugby
at your peril to a degree. And it does speak
to the fact that there are if you were one
of those six nations that were supportive of taking the
(34:28):
money and cutter and the financial pain across the world game.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Absolutely and look, Alice Park has had name changed.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
I think it was cock Kola for a bit, Emerancy
Aliones At the moment, I think it's still the naming
right spots sponsor, but everyone calls it Alice Park and
I come back as the kid Lancaster part being changed
to Jade Stadium. I think people started calling at Jade
Stadium after a while, but it's you know, those habits
are hard to kill, and especially when an a chonic
name of a stadium like it took in them. I
just don't see it happening.
Speaker 5 (34:55):
Yeah, I mean, we do live in the professional world.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
There was a lot of controversy around the All Blacks
putting veryous sponsorship names and across their jerseys, but that's
the reality of funding the sport as well as a
big behemoth of business that these are commercial requirements, but
(35:18):
they come at a cost to a degree.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Speaking of commercial requirements, always grateful for the support of
solutions elevating you and your business to a higher level
seamless and you're very.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
Good at that and very welcoming of anyone else that
wants to get on board. But particularly cold and flu
at this time of year, tomato juice or.
Speaker 5 (35:40):
Maybe a hot tidy you might do the trick.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Yeah, we're open to all offers. I'm sure we can
carve out something as well. Thanks to Last and bar
as English this has been Rugby Direct. We will see
you next week for another edition of Rugby Direct.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
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You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
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Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Forklift Solutions, lifting you
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Speaker 3 (00:31):
We're back for another week back in.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Auckland, Elliott Smith with me, Liam Napier from the New
Zealand Heralds and Liam Well. The All Blacks are spitting
after their first loss under head coach Scott Robertson going
down thirty eight thirty to Argentina in Wellington.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
I don't think a loss that many predictors.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Again, Argentina put in New Zealands on the back foot
at home and claiming the win. Your reaction, I guess
to that defeat first and foremost from an All Blacks perspective.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
My reaction look fairly shocked. I think is probably the
best way to summon up ellis windy and whild week
in Wellington, wasn't it, as you mentioned, a result that
nobody saw coming. Really the Pumas, I'm certain, clearly had
belief that they could pull that off. And pull it off.
They did. Look, I guess there were on reflection signs
(01:24):
that this All Black team were a bit shaky and
vulnerable throughout July, that the romp against Fijis side in
San Diego. They were very unconvincing against England's actually had
some criticism for being too hard on them. You know,
I'm saying that they had some escapes. Well, look, there
(01:44):
were clearly vulnerabilities there and they've been brought to a
head again. This is a massive reality check, isn't it.
I think when you take a step back, this is
a group that is finding their feet. They haven't been
together that long. But look, Razor Robson came in. He's
been painted as a bit of a messiah in some
parts after what he did with the Crusaders phenomenal record.
(02:06):
How much of a reality check is this for Razor
and his coaching group.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Well, I think it has to be a severe one
for them because they were out coached, outplayed on the
weekend and for me, I'm struggling to see what the
game plan is from the All Blacks perspective. England got
them into an army wrescole convincingly in that both of
those two tests and New Zealand couldn't escape Fiji aside,
(02:33):
the same thing happened against Argentina. The opposition teams at
the moment seem to have a very very good way
of bringing New Zealand into an arm wrestole, realizing that
the All Blacks don't like it. The All Blacks want
to play with front football, they want to play fast,
and when the All Blacks can't, they struggle to get
their game going. Other teams seem more comfortable playing in
the arm wrestle than the All Blacks seem to be,
(02:54):
So I think there needs to be from an All
Blacks perspective, you almost need to walk towards it. Now
you have this theme this together together, we walk well,
you almost need to walk towards that arm wrestle and go.
If this is what we're going to be dragged into,
here's how we do it. Here's how we get out
out of it. But what we saw on the weekend
was a lot of scrambling from the All Blacks, a
lot of unconvincing kicking, a lot of headless and brainless
(03:19):
passing at times from the All Blacks. That one that
stands out to me is that one around the sixty
sixth minute where there were two passes back from about
fifty meter mark after a lineout steal I think mom
was SV and then another one went back into the
end goal. Recora Juana has to force it in their
goal Argentine to get the ball and then score eventually
from that. So they lack an ability I think when
(03:40):
they do get into an arm wrestil. Now, obviously they
got two wins against England and managed to win the
arm wrestle in the end on Saturday night, they didn't
against Argentina. So one was struggling to see what the
game plan is from the All Blacks, and two when
they had drawn into an arm wrestle against opposition, they
are struggling to find a way to get out of it.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
There's a few things to unpack, it, aren't they. I
I think there's a lack of leadership. Where I see
that most evident is at the back end of that game. Now,
against England, the All Blacks found a way to escape
at Eden Park. It was Boden Barrack pretty much single
handedly pulling them out of the bag there. But in Dunedin,
had Marcus Smith kick better, they could have well lost
(04:23):
both of those tests against England.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
It really was that fraud.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Now you go to Wellington and against the Pumas and
the All Blacks have been together longer. It's only five
weeks or so, but the minimum expectation was progress they
and they regressed in several areas against England. They were
very proficient under the high ball. England targeted them there
and the wings were good. Their kicking game at times
(04:48):
was good. And then you look at the Pumas and
either they didn't plan for it, they didn't execute. They
could not escape their twenty two at times with the
Pumas long deep kickoffs. TJ Perrenara running taking a number
of steps with his box kick got charged twice. There
was another occasion where they were throwing the ball wild
(05:09):
offloads and they're twenty two to try and get out.
I think it was Mark t Leah caught the ball.
So that's a clear area of focus. But the lack
of leadership I think in the you we speaking about
those passes. Artie Severe and Damian McKenzie made those passes.
They weren't Wallace a Titi and Cortez Ratima. Those are
(05:29):
two of your most experienced figures on the park, influential
characters and those uncharacteristic eras sever Reese with the tap
back just before halftime. These are unforced eras. This is
not the Puma's applying huge amount of heat in certain areas,
and they did that, but these are unforced eras brain
explosions from the All Blacks and we shouldn't be seeing
(05:51):
that at this level. So I think a real spotlight
on the on field leadership. Are the All Blacks implementing
a game plan? Is there a disconnect between players and coaches?
Is it an accuracy or execution thing. There's a number
of things for them to amend in the space of
seven days.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
There are, and I think we'll get into the selection
stuff in a moment or two, but I think that
game plan is not really becoming clear. You'd think by
game four you'd know, Okay, this is the way the
All Blacks want to play. And we tooked a couple
of months back before they even played their first test
around what we saw from Scott Robinson and the Crusaders,
(06:31):
and that wasn't a run at all cost strategy. It
was based on forward work, It was based on getting
in the right areas of the ground and using the
strengths there like the line out drive like the scrum
and getting into the right areas of the ground initially
and then backing your backs to do the work once
you were there. But there wasn't a flashy thing. Now
it seems like they're trying to get out of trouble,
(06:52):
the battling to get out of trouble. When they do,
it's more a sigh of relief than anything, and they
don't progress after that. It's more like, Okay, well we've
managed to get out of that hole, but there's no
thought of how do we actually get into the twenty two,
how do we build some attack. I think the opportunities
to sustain pressure or build pressure in the twin too
were few and far between. From the All Blacks in Wellington.
They just didn't do it for long enough, and when
(07:14):
they did, Mark t Lee was rewarded with a try
when the Fords went up the middle. And I suppose
this is an good opportunity as any to get into
some potential changes, but I think they're missing a ball
carrier in the Fords.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
We saw. I thought Sam Dowry played very well in
the line out and.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Also carried wise, but I think Ethan blackadd had a
quiet testalled and Papali as well. I think they're missing
a ball carrier there now, whether that's Samma penny Fee
now for me and I don't know whether they would
think about doing this, but I think they should seriously
consider it as moving Ardie Savia to open side Flanka
and bring in Wallace a TT at number eight. For me,
(07:49):
that gives you a dynamic ball carrier in Wallace to TT.
But you've still got Ardi there. He can do a
lot of the work. It doesn't all fall on his shoulders.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
A lot of that.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
On Saturday night we saw him making a lot of
carries trying to get some go forward for the team
with Wallacer TT there. He's a player capable of doing so.
We saw that during the Chief season, very very young.
But I think it's worthy of a consideration at least
to go with that because the Fords just aren't punching
Ford hard enough to build that sustained pressure and get
(08:18):
the all blacks at front football and getting over the
advantage line. They've been pushed backwards more often than not.
There were times on the weekend where they would get
near to the twenty two one attack and then all
of a sudden they be pushed back to the ten
meter mark one halfway. So for me that's mitigated some
What if you bring in some more ball carriers and
that loose for trier a.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
Couple of points to pick up on there. I'll start
with the loose forwards. I agree with you that the
balance and composition of the All Blacks loose forwards is
not right. And Dalton Papa le ethan blackheader, and Luke
Jacobson who was unavailable with hamstring injury at the weekend
are very similar players. They are great defenders, they high
(08:59):
work great, but they are not big ball carriers. And
with Ardie, I thought played well at the weekends from
a ball carrying perspective, but that the composition is out there,
so I agree with you that that needs a serious look.
Do they look at Sam Kine. He's not necessarily a
(09:19):
ball carrier, but he is a very abrasive character. And
one area where the All Blacks have consistently struggled this
year against England and the Pumas is the breakdown. They
knew the Pumas were coming there and they couldn't counter it.
That the Pumas had great success on turnover possession. They
scored their first try off a turnover. Pablo Monteta went
(09:43):
across the field and delivered the short ball for their
first try. Their second try came off counter attack as well,
so very good in transition. But they found a lot
of success slowing the All Blacks ball, frustrating them in
that regard. So they need to amend their breakdown and
that's not a new issue for this All Black group.
And the second is when we look at ball carriers,
(10:05):
it's not just the loose forwards, and so you probably
seeing someone like a Patrick to Polotu as well in
the second row. Like you say, Sam Darry was excellent.
I think the All Blacks won their first fourteen lineouts,
so their lineout was exceptional, but then it completely shat
the beds when it mattered most in the last quarter
when a suffer more come on came on, missed two
(10:26):
lineout throws. Now, the All Blacks have a specialist lineout
throwing coach in Corey Flynn, so this is an area
that should be proficient.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, but has never been a great lineout thrower. That's
always been a weakness of him. And to go right,
you're working with Corey Flynn. It's not magically going to
sort that out in a matter of three weeks.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
It's not. But let me put this to and look.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
It's all like the Hurricanes are ebited. This mine out
set peak coach.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
This might be harsh, but if a halfback couldn't hit
his target, would he be in the All Blacks?
Speaker 3 (10:54):
No? And that's the thing with it.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I think that there's a very shallow depth in terms
of hooker at the moment with the SAMASONI Takeyah out
injured as well. Atom a great ball carrier, impressive ball carrier,
but lineout throwing has been a weakness to his entire career.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
It's always the knock on them.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
Yep, totally.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
And when you're on the bench, in particular as a hooker,
you are going to be coming on in these pressure
moments when there's two points in a match, when you
need to come back, when the set piece is extremely important,
and when we talk about the passing moment, the lineouts
were just as fundamental. And the All Blacks losing this
game two miss lineout throws when they were looking to
(11:35):
build field position and pressure completely took their foot off
the throat, So that's another area of concern. And just
one other point I want to pick up on that
you made there. The All Blacks looked their best when
they went up the guts, ye when they went pick
and drive close to the ruck when in the heart
of the of the pomas around the fringes, quick picking
drives direct. Mark Tala scored off at Antonlina Brown's try
(11:58):
came after the All Blacks made some real inroads up
the guts. So maybe they're guilty of actually trying to
play too much rugby at times and they just need
to tuck and drive and be a bit more simplus
a bit more aggressive, a bit more direct, because that's
when they actually look their best.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
It is, but they weren't getting into the right areas
of the ground either. Then that goes back to the
kicking of both Tja Padanara and Damien McKenzie. Now I
think McKenzie's head four tests now to stamp his mark
on the team.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
I don't think it's working.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Scott Robertson said yesterday that they will stick with him.
He's back to him into stay at ten for the
time being, but that they're lacking a lot through the
kicking game at the moment, and you see Jordie's in
there as well with kicking and Bote and Barrett as well,
but they're just not getting into the right areas of
the grant And that falls back into that nineteen twelve
fifteen of the All Blacks team to get them out
(12:51):
of their own twenty two and get them into the
opposition half. It's just not clicking at the moment from
a All Black suspective. And you know, they talk about
game management being a work on for Damien McKenzie, which
is all well and good, but he's played fifty one
tests now. He's played a lot, and I know he's
spent a lot of it coming off the bench, But
you shouldn't be going game management to work on when
(13:12):
you've clocked more than fifty tes thity country.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
I agree.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
The problem is the All Blacks don't have too many
levers to pull here. It's basically him or Boden, Barrett
and Bowden hasn't played ten for the All Blacks really
for the best part of two years, so there's no
guarantees that he's going to come in and flick the
switch either. So look, Damian McKenzie did some good things
in that game. There was a chip and chase for
(13:36):
Sam Darry's opening try, he delivered the skip ball for
Antolina Brown's try. I thought he did have some better
kicking moments in that match.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Later on. He drilled the ball long and deep a
couple of times.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
But I agree he's not the commanding presence and that
is costing the All Blacks, and I think there's issues
outside him as well. Jordi Barrett looks a bit off.
His impacts been really nullified so far this year. He's
finding and even looking for contact a lot rather than
running at weakshows. So whether that's you know, changing in
(14:12):
midfield partnerships, it could be multiple voices when you look
at Lea McDonald and Jason Holland effectively you know, two
backs coaches.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
Maybe some mixed messaging there, I'm not sure.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
So if we broaden the conversation out there, we're looking
at ten right with Damian McKenzie, Boden Barrett, and you
have to bring in Will Jordan to that conversation. I
think the All Blacks will try and include all three
of them this week, and perhaps they've been very clear
that they looked at Will Jordan as a fallback first,
but I would not be surprised to see him start
(14:46):
on the wing. He came on, played thirty minutes at
the weekend and again the All Blacks looked their best
when he was on the park, challenging the fringes. A
couple of inside balls they got denied Damien McKenzie's try
for the Ford pass. I think there was actually an
obstruction for Fletcher news around that as well, but he
brought real impacts. So for me this weekend be looking
(15:08):
at Will Jordan and Caleb Clark on the wings. I
think Jordan has to come into this team because the
attack is really struggling to find that spark and penetration
as well.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
So you wouldn't have Mark t Leer in this week.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
No, I don't think so severe Reese I wouldn't have
selected last week. And I just think they need to change.
Mark to Leer didn't offer a lot for me at
the weekend. There's that's perhaps been a bit knee jerk.
You know, Mark de Leier has been in good form,
but I just think that they need to find some sparks,
some changes.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
From what you say, from what we've had from Scott
Scott Robertson and Dame McKenzie is going to remain at ten.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
What about halfback?
Speaker 4 (15:51):
That's very straightforward for me. I personally, I wouldn't have
started TJ last week and there's a number of reasons
for that. I thought he the difference in speeds both
to the base and with pass was very evident when
Cortes are to ma and Noah Hotham came into the
mix after his injury in the first Test against englm
(16:13):
TJ's also leaving at the end of the year, so
to start a guy and stick with him doesn't make
a lot of sense.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
T J Penina has played his best rugby for the
All Blacks when he's come off the bench. He's played
the majority of his career behind Aaron Smith, and I
think he's only started maybe a quarter. Roughly of his
tests have been starts, the rest have come off the bench.
He's been that changed for the All Blacks. It's a
different kettle of fish starting, especially doing it as you say,
at the back end of his All Blacks career. For me,
(16:42):
you start with Quartez Raetimer and you bring on t
J Peninara as quite unquite an insurance policy off the bench.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
Who can we very experienced had to bring.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Close out a game. That's for me the way you
go about it. You've got Noah Hotham who's waiting in
the wings as well. But for where you got the moment,
I think t J Peninah is the kind of player
that you bring off the bench and just settle things
down or whatever you the tempo of the game needs
at a certain point. That's been his skill set. He's
been very very good at at then asking him to
start and yus he's waited a long time for it.
(17:11):
Starts in All Blacks Jersey behind Aaron Smith, who I
think we usually touched on.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
We had him on the pod. You know.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
It was very very lucky with injuries, didn't have many
during his career, so he's had to wait for the chance.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
I get that.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
But his success has been closing out games and that's
where I think he should be selected this week is
in that twenty one Jersey to close out the game.
Depending on how it looks. Full pack for you look,
I would like to see a black out of Sava
and well so Tt loose Ford Triger. I don't know
if they will go with that, but I think that's
worth considering. As I touched on before, what other changes
(17:43):
may be to the pack do you think could be
in the offing this week?
Speaker 4 (17:46):
Yeah, just going back to the TJ Courtiez debate, I
agree about the way around. I'd go Courtiz to start
TJ off the bench calm heads, but they're also they
both left foots, so Courtiers come in and the red
hot focus for the All Blacks this week is on
the kicking strategy, which they didn't get right. That does
(18:08):
place a lot of pressure on Cortez, young guy and experienced.
The Puma's going to come, you know, a lot of
pressure on him. So the All Blacks, their four pack
needs to get their blockers in so the halfbacks can clear.
And while he's great support play, good runner, very sharp
from the base, kicking is probably an ongoing work on
(18:30):
for him and Noah Hotham, so very interesting to see
how that plays out. I agree with you about the
loose Fords. I wouldn't mind some of Penny coming in
just for a bit of size. I thought he was
a bit of a scapegoat against England from a physicality perspective.
He was meant to be that enforcer and didn't bring that,
but name me one all black Ford that consistently physically
(18:53):
dominated that series against England didn't have one exactly. So
again he paid the price I think for that. So
I think whether he's on the bench or starting on,
like to see Sumer Penny coming to the mix, the
Alblacks don't really have anywhere else to turn in terms
of their locks, and I think to be fair, their
(19:15):
locks were good to Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
I thought Darien had good games.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Yeah, And there was a lot of variety with the
liner I mentioned before they won their first fourteen that
was with blackhead a severe Darry Tupouvai basically their whole
four pack winning ball at lineout times. So Tupouva tacked
that box. In terms of running the line out, Sam
Darry was the key target and he was very impressive.
(19:39):
I don't think you can fault the front row. There
wasn't a scrum for sixty minutes, which is busiz.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
We haven't touched on that. It was very very odd
and you look at the All Blacks in the Test
against England. They used that scrum as a weapon and
they use it to get themselves up the fields, earned penalties,
they and they just didn't get them on the weekends.
Now whether that was just an anomaly in terms of
just not being called, but it was quite bizarre seeing
Ethan to group and Tri Loomis trudge off the field
(20:06):
without having a scrum to worry about. And I saw
and the group say it was on the All Blacks
social media channels. He found it a hard game to
get into because there were no scrums and you can't
manufacture scrums, it can't make them happen to an extent
of opposition ball, but not having that using the game
was very very unusual.
Speaker 5 (20:23):
A bizarre.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
I can't really remember a test like it, and so
very hard for a prop to get into a game
without locking horns and getting down to you know what
they know and love. So I wouldn't make any changes
in the front row. Before we come to the All
Black's back line, I guess the bench probably lacked impact
other than Will Jordan, and that's where we probably expected
(20:47):
the All Blacks to come over the top of the Pumas.
And in fact it was the Pumas bench likes of
August and Crevy and others who really brought impact for them.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yeah, it was it was Crevy and Josh Glovey in
terms of their props. So I thought came on and
really added size and impacts. Craevy was everywhere. I thought
when he came on the part, he's thirty nine years
of age and he was just getting everywhere around it. Yeah,
I thought, Actually the bench when they selected it the
all Blacks, you go, okay, there's some explosiveness near with
(21:18):
Will Jordan, who is probably only a short term option
on the bench. Rico Yuwani, you could impact causes ms TSI,
but they just it's offer on more. It just didn't happen,
just didn't click, and with the lineup beginning to struggle
when Alma came on, things just didn't really get going.
So do you put Boden Barrett back to that bench
roll where he came in for the two tests against
(21:42):
England and maybe look to Peter Fetter come back in
at fifteen again, put Will Jordan back on the on
the right wing. Petter Fetta, we don't know if he's
fit again. Didn't sound like a major issue injury issue,
but maybe Peter Fetter's worth of another look, or do
you bring him off the bench. I think there is
an issue around the bench that it looked more explosive
than it actually delivered. But they need to get that
(22:02):
mix right.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
And even the timing of it.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
I think Rico Jani and Wallace the TT only you know,
ten to fifteen minutes. I'd like to see Setisi come
on a bit earlier. From an impact point of view.
What about the back club we've talked about, you know,
McKenzie at ten. One of the big selection talking point
last week was Antelena Brown and at center over Riquowhani,
(22:25):
who had been the first choice center for the past
four years. Essentially, do you envision any changes throughout the
back club look?
Speaker 3 (22:36):
I think.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
I think it on the wings or hide stick with
Mark Khalaire. I'd stick with him there, but we could
move him across to the.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Look. You stick with him at left wing, you can
move him to the right wing. He's that capable.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
But it depends around what you do with Will Jordan,
where you play him a right wing, where you start
Ham at fullback. Severy Reese I think probably just needs
a wee bit of a break, but again he's the
kind of player now they're pretty reluctant to use a
specialist winger on the bench. We've seen a few times
as the Crusaders. The view sever Reese as someone that
can inject in the last twenty two five minutes. He's
a kind of player that you can get over the ball.
(23:12):
He can just be that spark that maybe a look
to him. It handicaps you to an extent because you
don't get that utility value out of him, but maybe
you could look to bring him off the bench. For
Angelina Brown, I thought he had a good game without
being spectacular. It was a solid game for him, but
he got found out for the first try defensively wise,
(23:32):
so I think that's a work in progress.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
Yeah, I think he did enough to warrant another start.
It would be harsh to single out he made a
couple of line breaks, but you've got skin for that
Perma's opening try. So I don't think you want to
be chopping and changing combinations every week. But I think
that the Wings definitely need a look. And you mentioned
Peter Festa. I think that's that's a worthy conversation, but
I would be surprised if Boden Bear isn't. Then that
(23:56):
makes purely from a kicking vision perspective, which is going
to be a big focus for the All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
That'll do us So our first half of our podcast
with Rugby Direct, powered by friends at Forklift Solutions.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Back with the Sea half after this.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Rugby Direct, Howard Babies Talk.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
We're back now on Rugby Direct with our final four.
Let's get into these four rugby topics. Myself and Liam
Buller have a NATA about them all. Let's change focus
from the Internationals for a half moment. The highlights of
the opening ground of the Far Apartment Cup and the NPC.
What stood out to you, Liam.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Go oh great victory for title favorites as tipped by
yours truly well Itton that Ediden park.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Over the team that I tipped his title favorite talking.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
Yes, come up to the nine and produce a very
impressive performance. So great to see the Lions get off
to a good start. I watched Tartanuki Counties as well.
Josh Jacob resigned with the chief recently. Very impressive performance
from him and kenninga Hoolo on the wing south end.
Look it looked like they'd won the comp and then
(25:07):
the cargo Stag Day was going off with their victory
over Southlands. Great to hear Steve Divine bag Canterbury's five
rolling Wall tries in christ Church and and the far
a Palmer Cup big win from one umber two and
another title favourite tiped Auckland winning so and Canterbury lost.
Speaker 5 (25:26):
So a great day all round.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Okay, thanks link, but didn't didn't agree with Steve Divine's
comments on the rolling War. I thought it was a
thing of beauty seeing the Canada the Red and Black
Pack just surge over the tunny fur. I thought a
very interesting round. Southland winning on Stag Day over Ottiga
was genuine highlight. Can they back it up and get
the shield this weekend? It'd be great to see Hawks
(25:49):
Bay lose the shield. Treated it like rubbish. Couldn't happen
soon enough. So look if it's the Stags, good luck.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
To them this week.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
And the other thing that stood out to me as well,
we've got a storm week game Bay of plenty counties
on Wednesday night, but from a far Apartmer Cup Canterbury
would be one of the title favorites. Losing to County's
Monaco and losing relatively comfortable as well. Big big score
line forty seven to twenty four. The counties Manicer Heap
applying a bit of pressure on Canterbury. So good start
for them and not such a great one for Canterbury.
(26:25):
Topic number two in the final four. Can anyone stop
the spring Box and the Rugby Championship? No, no, they can't.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
Look, the Springboks are a better team now than they
were at the World Cup. The inclusion of Tony brown
sasha their first five that came in at the weekend.
He shanked his first penalty, which is a bit of
a shocker, but he brought another dimension to that team
and look it was completely one way traffic, wasn't it
And it was a real we're talking about rarely checked
(26:54):
for the All Blacks. Well, Joe Schmidt put the Wallabies
back in their place and it shows just where the
welch you're at as well. After that, very very impressive,
very imposing, domineering performance from the spring Box. Interesting to
see where they go with a selection where they get
a bit experimental. But look that just really shines the
(27:18):
spotlight on how important this week is for the All
Blacks because that two test tour of South Africa is
now looking increasingly daunting.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
It is very impressive.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
I thought the springbox is a great first try with
the line out split and that we passed back over
the top. I thought that was innovation that we don't
often see in this era of test rugby. Credit to
Russia Rasmus and his coaching team that are willing to
bring innovation into rugby. Sometimes you go seven to one bench,
it's a bit ridiculous, but at least they're thinking outside
the box. And Test rugby has become so homogenized, so
(27:50):
stale is not the word, but just predictable that when
you've got a coach challenging the norm, I think you've
got to embrace that. We saw chesleyn Colby feeding the
set peace all sorts of little things that he's thinking
outside the box and trying and find ways and space
is at such a premium on the park at the moment.
Defensive system are so good. You've got to think outside
the box and I think credit to Rassi Erasmus, they
(28:12):
found a way to do it.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
Look, and when we talk about you know Wellington being
a curse for the All Blackstone one in seven and
the Capitol haven't won there in six years, Well, the
Springboks have a horrific record in Australia, They've only won
thirty percent of their tests there. Some Cork Stadium was
a bit of a graveyard. It's the favorite spot from
a wallaby's perspective. Well, it almost looked and felt like
(28:37):
you're in South Africa with the amount of spring Box
fans and they completely put that to bed. So another
brick in the wall for a very impressive Springbox team.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Off to Perth this week as well, which is basically
South Africa in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
A lot of New Zealander and South Africans there.
Speaker 5 (28:53):
But the north shore of Auckland.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Yeah, that's right, so they'll get a good crowd I'm
sure at Perth Stadium. Topic three, what was the deal
with the crowd in Wellings? And I know people were
surprised by that. Look for me, I don't think it
was necessarily a surprise. It wasn't sold out. It does
reflect that there are some big challenges out there in
the rugby marketplace, but also the cost of living, you know,
Wellington with the big public sector doing it tough at
(29:17):
the moment and when I guess on the surface of it,
it is disrespectful to Argentina but there is that historic
rivalry with Australia. If you are a family that can go,
we can afford to go to one test this year,
which one do you go to? You peck Australia even
though they have not won in New Zealand saw for
such a long time. But there's just that historic thing
that you go with the Wallabies rather than Argentina. Maybe
(29:39):
results like Saturday Night will help do it, but there's
so many factors at play, the job losses in Wellington,
the rugby market as a whole, I don't know that
it can sustain two tests in a city outside of Auckland.
And also it's very very hard to get people to
leave the house in general, and they're battling to try
and present Argentina as a draw card. As I say,
(30:00):
results like Saturday Night might help that for Eden Park
this weekend, but also for beyond in future seasons.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
Yeah. I think you make some good points here about
the economic realities that we're living in right now.
Speaker 5 (30:11):
You can't get away from that.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
There's you know, people genuinely struggling, but in saying that
they were hawking off tickets for as low as fifty
bucks to the stems so cut price prices, you know
midweek there I think there were ten thousand tickets still
available on the Thursday, and it does speak to I
think an apathy and probably an arrogance among all black
(30:35):
fans when it comes to Argentina, who are a tough cell.
And I think New Zealand Rugby failed mister trick in
this regard. Like you say two Cess and Wellington, they
should have taken this game to Napier, Nelson, Hamilton, christ
Church somewhere else because the rally of the Pumas there
(30:58):
are a tough cell and they always have been perhaps
always will be unless they keep winning like this. And
Eden Park this week will not be sold out for
the same reason. And I think they've sold over twenty
five thousand, so they will get a better crowd. But
you get twenty five thirty thousand to eaton Park and
it still looks pretty average from a TV perspective. So
(31:19):
those are bad optics for a normal extent. It's the optics,
isn't it, Because what do they get in the end?
Twenty five thousand for look, that's probably they get. There's
a better crowd than they'd get in sand Napier or Nelson.
Maybe not so much at Hamilton, which will probably about
exactly what they get if they sold it out into Hamilton,
better than christ Church.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
But it's the optics. It's the empty state seats that
people look at. It doesn't matter that they've actually probably
got more tickets and bums through the abums on seats
than those venues.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
So yeah, I think they just kind of got it wrong.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Now, I think I don't know how with a venue
availability played a role into this, but you could probably
go there's a more of an except population with England.
You might have had one of those England tests in Wellington,
you played Argentina and Dunedin and just changed it up
that way. Now I don't know venue availability, but there
are ways you could sort of change things around to
make it look a bit better.
Speaker 5 (32:08):
Certainly a rethink needed in the future.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Speaking of rethink, you read it a topic four, read
a recall or start calling Twickenham Alian Stadium.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
No, that's a hard note for me.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
It's one of my favorite rugby venues and I suspect
no one outside the corporate world will be calling it's
what Alian's Twickenham. I think it will be Twickenham until
the day I die.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah, it's it's hard, it's a it's a you know,
it just doesn't feel right, doesn't Twickenham the amount of
they get through the gates at ticking'am, But it shows
that they're on financial straits that they have to hock off,
you know, Twickenham they are looking to maybe even sell
the whole thing as a joint last year I think
it was, but then and move into Wimbley. They decided
against that in the end, but shows that even you know,
(32:58):
the r if You are not immune to some of
these financial issues presented in our game at the moment.
And they're going with Alion Stadium. You're right, no one's
going to call it that outside of Alians and the
rif You. But it just does show you some of
the issues that they have getting money through the gate.
They've turned down the nation's championship proposal from Katza. It's
funny because Alians doesn't have a clean corporate history themselves,
(33:21):
but it seem there's a lot better to get the
money in that way then go to Doha.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
Yeah, and I think when you've got a big venue
like that, there are realities in terms of upkeep ticking
them has been around forever in a day, so I'm
sure it needs refurbishments and all those sorts of things.
Forsyth Bar Internedin just had or as in the process
of going through a big makeover, which is costly but
(33:45):
needs to be done to attract players and deliver the
sort of standards the All Blacks are out and the
n z CIS and Upper Heart which is not cheap,
but those are the sort of level of professionalism facilities
that that players demand these days. But yeah, in terms
of naming rights, I will always call Mount Smart Mount Smart,
(34:07):
not go Meetia, you know, call it Ericson, Ericson. So yeah,
in a sense, it's easy money, but you mess with
tradition in a sport like a conservative sport like rugby
at your peril to a degree. And it does speak
to the fact that there are if you were one
of those six nations that were supportive of taking the
(34:28):
money and cutter and the financial pain across the world game.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Absolutely and look, Alice Park has had name changed.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
I think it was cock Kola for a bit, Emerancy
Aliones At the moment, I think it's still the naming
right spots sponsor, but everyone calls it Alice Park and
I come back as the kid Lancaster part being changed
to Jade Stadium. I think people started calling at Jade
Stadium after a while, but it's you know, those habits
are hard to kill, and especially when an a chonic
name of a stadium like it took in them. I
just don't see it happening.
Speaker 5 (34:55):
Yeah, I mean, we do live in the professional world.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
There was a lot of controversy around the All Blacks
putting veryous sponsorship names and across their jerseys, but that's
the reality of funding the sport as well as a
big behemoth of business that these are commercial requirements, but
(35:18):
they come at a cost to a degree.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Speaking of commercial requirements, always grateful for the support of
solutions elevating you and your business to a higher level
seamless and you're very.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
Good at that and very welcoming of anyone else that
wants to get on board. But particularly cold and flu
at this time of year, tomato juice or.
Speaker 5 (35:40):
Maybe a hot tidy you might do the trick.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Yeah, we're open to all offers. I'm sure we can
carve out something as well. Thanks to Last and bar
as English this has been Rugby Direct. We will see
you next week for another edition of Rugby Direct.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
For more from news talks, there'd be listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcast on iHeartRadio
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