September 19, 2024 • 37 mins
Elliott Smith and Liam Napier are in Sydney this week for the opening Bledisloe Cup and in a crossover special, stopped by the ESPN Scrum Reset podcast studios to count down to Saturday’s match with Aussie rugby journos Sam Bruce and Christy Doran.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk sed B.
Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hi, welcome to this special edition of the ESPN Scrum
Reset Podcast. Sam Bruce joined us ever by Christy Dora
and Christy got a couple of special guests in the
Schmid house this week.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
He had to let.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Uslow one the Rugby direct boys, Elliott Smith, Liam Nabier,
welcome in.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Great to be here to me.
Speaker 5 (00:36):
Here's Sam Sidney's send it on for us and look
forward to one of you boys up.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
You're blowing a bit of a Meghan Gale out there
this afternoon, but glad we turned the warm weather on
for you this week. Christie has plenty to talk about.
Let us slow week. It's always a big week here
in Sydney and across Australia. First time we've had this
game here in Sydney since twenty twenty COVID times.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
We've been through two.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Coaches since them, Dave Readie into Eddie Jones, now Joe Schmith.
We're back at a Courl Stadium. The crowd around about
sixty thousand. How are you?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
How are the vibes this week? You've been in Sydney
in your travels.
Speaker 6 (01:11):
Well, you're right, the weather has turned it on. I
know that Raised Robinson will get too later on, but
he was enjoying and joining the surf and that's what
our New Zealand friends are enjoying right now. But I'll
tell you what it does seem quite. I know that
the three of us, the four of us, we love
our agy, we get to we know, we live and
breathe it. But if you look around that the Shanne landscape,
the media landscape, is the blendesslope buzz there right now,
(01:34):
I don't know if it is, but hopefully Saturday afternoon
they will be boys.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Give us a sense of the vibes in New Zealand
at I'm and around Scott robertson this new Paul Blacks
of Year, Eliot, I know you're in South Africa and
calling the games for news talk. Zed be two losses
to tight losses. What's been the I guess the feedback
the response to those two defeats of South Africa and
I guess three defeats out of four and the RUGBA gym. Yeah,
(01:59):
I think there's been a few wobbles with this team
since they started and probably haven't seen the game plan
that we was thinking we might get from Scotlarly on
his ten yures taken a wildest sort of imprint, his
fingerprints on the Seamon in South Africa.
Speaker 7 (02:11):
Maybe going over there and getting we'll win it. A
loss would have been a good return, but they've ended
up with two close losses. Glass a full approach, you see.
Actually there's some signs building there that maybe beginning to
see the game plan. But again they were defeats and
if you're an All Blacks team that hasn't ended over
the Freedom Cup to so Afya since two thousand and
a night, you've just done it for the first time
since then, you're not going to win the Rugby Championship.
(02:33):
So it does ultimately feel like a step back.
Speaker 6 (02:35):
To this point.
Speaker 7 (02:36):
It's you're optimist, you can see that there's something happening
in this All Blacks team. If you're not, you figure
it's more of the same and maybe you've step backwards
from last.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Year and Lamb.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Meanwhile, we've got Mills Lilian telling as here in Australia
it's our fault that the All Blacks are Batlan bar
under Scott Robinson and Alida Hills if you're watching Jeff
Wilson some interesting excuses.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
As well, but.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
His raising getting a bit of a free hit at
the moment. Or are you guys at the public starting
to come I guess is the tide turning because everyone
thought he was going to come in and you know
it was going to be to raise the six that
he's had with Canterbury and then the Crusaders obviously clearly
doesn't have his made man Richiemonger there, but I guess
the magic hasn't turned up in the Black Jersey just yet.
Speaker 6 (03:17):
No.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
I think you know, the War Tales obviously have to
cop their first.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Year of culpability.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
But you're right, Razor came in with a massive amount
of public goodwill. Seven titles were the Crusaders, he was
the Golden Goose, Haid the Midas Touch and I think
he's found out very quickly that Test rugby is a
very different beast, so that the midpoint in this season
he's four wins, three losses and it's been disappointing, frustrating.
(03:44):
I think the loss of Alice Park was heartening to
a degree. There was a lot of good to take
out of that, but the following week disheartening because the
All Blacks probably went backwards and they didn't improve the
final quarter meltdowns. It was a big issue and one
of the frustrations for me from a selection perspective. Razor
came in with a bit of a mandate to evolve
(04:07):
this team post World Cup. We've had a lot of departures,
there's a lot of coaching changes, and it's largely been
much of the same. He hasn't brought through a lot
of youth, and the youth he has brought through has
been largely booked, so still waiting for him to really
put his imprint. As Elliot said, the honor his game plan,
but also the selections.
Speaker 6 (04:27):
I find it surprising the idea that Rais has been
considered ben conservative. I actually think it's the other way around.
I think that Rais has done the Zach right thing
in terms of selection. He's gone with guys, the generational
change over overnight with Aaron Smith, with Brady Retallic, Sam Whitelock,
Dane Coles. You take that heartbeat out, you need to
(04:48):
keep the other familiar faces that have been there for
the last few years. So look, I'd love to know
who these faces are that people keep going what about him?
What about him? What Sam Kaine? If you don't have
a Sam Kain who's wearing the nump seven jersey tomorrow
on Saturday. Rather, I'm wondering where the experience. It's where
the leadership is because you need to have these guys
there whilst you bring in your court is Radamus who's
(05:11):
there because of injuries to other people who would have
been new faces anyway, given that Rsmith no longer.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Well it's a fair point.
Speaker 5 (05:18):
But guys like Wallace to Tt that the success stories
of this all black team have come from the youth.
So Wallace to Tt was a standout at Blindside, he
only came in against the spring Box because of injuries.
Tupu Vai has been one of the revelations at Locke
to Mighty Williams another young guy in the front row.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
And then just some of the selections.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
Riko Wanne's dropped one week, he's brought back the next
Will Jordan starts at fullback, then he's the next week
he's on the wing. So struggling to see a bit
of a plan here. And Billy Proctor is another one.
He was the standout center and super rugby was brilliant
against Fiji and he hasn't been cited since, so rika
Awani's approven talents in the midfield, but he's under a
(05:59):
bit of pressure, so I think people just want to
see the youth come through a little bit more. But
you're right, there has been massive change and there's still
some experience. But we talk about guys like Sam Kaine, TJ.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Pittanara.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
They're leaving at the end of the year, so they're
not the future. And there is the balance between the
win and the now and plan for the future. You
have to win every test as an All Black coach,
so it is a difficult balancing act.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Kind of feels like the most interesting.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Intriguing All Blacks period we've had for some time. And
I look at the squad that they've got now, and
particularly the bench, and with all due respect to the
All Blacks, and I said this from a Wallaby's perspective,
who won four and three and I go through a
massive period of change over and heap in you basis
sixteen deputantes this season. But I compare this to the
great All Blacks teams of twenty eleven to twenty fifteen,
(06:47):
and it doesn't It doesn't fright me as a Wallaby
thinking as a Wallaby supporter, and that's saying as you know,
clearly I expect them to get beaten this weekend and
beaten handsomely. But comparing this current era to that one
now and it's just not the same. We see the
Springboks having you know, a brilliant time but clearly the
world's best team. Ireland may have something to say about that,
(07:09):
but they are going through a real moment, a golden period,
and I just think that the All Blacks have come
out of that. There's going to be a shuffling period
here for Scott robertson how long it takes him to
navigate it.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
And it's an excellent.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Point around you know, TJ Paranara and Sam Cane finishing
up this year, that's even more experience going out of
that side, almost a tail end of that great generation
finishing up. And I mean Robinson's got rasores, He's got
a job ahead of it.
Speaker 7 (07:33):
Yeah, we can't managine it up gage test which experience.
It's the only way is by getting this Buzzers experience
and getting them in there and those final quarter bell
Jones that have talked about they probably haven't got that
bench exactly right and there's a little bit of experimentation
again we sit this week in with Tomasi Williams and
Pussily or tossing that coming off the bench too big
impactful props rather than off thing a fussy which are
(07:53):
new Auklands engin. So there's a little bit of trial
in Europe I think going on with this all Blacks team,
and then what the actual Beast twenty three is. We
haven't seen it through seven tes so far in the season.
We might not e con see it till perhaps the
end of the year tour and then maybe even early
next year. Where you go, okay, this is what Scott
Roberts wants to get out of this team. This is
his ideal twenty three, first choice, but at this point
it feels like it's mix and match and trying to
(08:15):
see how things work.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
They were brilliant of the breakdown in Cape Town. I
think it was four or five steals from a variety
of players. The Wallabies have only gone with one fetch
will come and we'll dig into these two teams shortly
this weekend.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Only phrasing were right.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Joshmik did comment today that he thought about considering the
two fetcher approach, which coincidentally Michael Checker the first time
he blooded Michael Hooper and David Pocock together was his
first letislough here in Sydney in twenty fifteen. There's a
little statwoy Christie.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
But I mean it's not all doom and glue. Is it?
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Like? There were patches there and at the final quarter
is clearly an issue your piece for us a couple
of weeks ago, Lamb having scored a point after the
fifty second minute there for three tests running and that's
got to be a big concern.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
I mean, can that.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I don't think it'll be a concern this week somehow
given the way that they played it here in Sydney
in recent times. But is that, I mean, what is
the issue there with the batch Didney.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
I think it's a multitude of things. It's Scot Robinson's
maintained the.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
Fact that there are opportunities there and if you look
at the last test in Cape Town, Damien McKenzie missed
I think at least two penalties, so there were opportunities
for the All Blacks to score points. But it's not
just who's on the bench. It's the use of it
as well, some weird strange use of the bench. Some
players playing five minutes, ten minutes, fifteen minutes. It's really
(09:34):
hard to get into the contest and so I think
there's been a lack of trust in that bench. You
saw the changes and the last test for the All
Blacks they went back to experience with Boden Barrett and
TJ Peinara going back to the bench this week. It
is reasonably an experience, so, like Elliott says, it is
still a bit of trial and error, and it also
is a reflection.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Of those guys who have left post World Cup. And
this has sparked a discussion in New Zealand and ongoing
discussion about should New Zealand rugby sleep from overseas because
if you bring back one or two or three players
and bolster your death, that's where the bench is feeling
the most pain. So that's an ongoing discussion.
Speaker 5 (10:14):
I know, as you guys through there's various different models
around the world in Australia, South Africa and the like
Ritchie Mooman you touched on as Raises Man. He's his
quarterback and he would desperately love them back. He can't
select them from Japan, and there's a few others leicesterifying
and look you and maybe you would bring back in
Aaron Smith, but that does compromise courts at Artima's development,
(10:37):
so that there's pros and cons the eree.
Speaker 6 (10:39):
It's a fascinating argument. I'm strongly in the camp that
Rugan Australia needs to look abroad. It's so clear that
two decades without the Bladisloe Cup and last year's embarrassing
World Cup performance, that you need to look abroad because
the talent here is just not strong enough. But comparatively,
I think it is still very much strong enough in
(11:01):
New Zealand. And even the fact that the discussions at
Richie Muwanga might well come back in a year or
two his testament to the strength of the eligibility laws
that are on offer at the moment. Richie likely will
come back. He was thinking about playing for a different
nation at the next World Cup. That won't occur if
he's back in New Zealand and super Rugby. So I
(11:22):
think it'd be so naive and short sighted to try
and ban the rules because of one or two people.
And then if you do that, you can the genie
is out of the bottle.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
It's easy to look for.
Speaker 7 (11:32):
A short term flex, isn't it. You go, Okay, we've
lost to loss two matches in South Africa, you go,
how do we fix it? Well, these players overseas that
are quite ended. But does it actually help your development
of your test team in two years time, five years time,
ten years time. I think the jury is out on that.
I do think thy professional sport moves at a real
clip and sometimes you just can't. You can't go into
the tie. Sometimes you've got to make these decisions. So
(11:52):
es fascinating to see we used on rugby lens on it.
I think they're going to at some point get to
a model where maybe it's one forward, one back or
something like that.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
To put it as all blext.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Before we come to your thoughts on the Wallabies boys,
is Damian McKenzie's honestly running out of time at number ten? Yes,
And though he hasn't grasped that ten, Jersey hasn't stated
his case and said this is mine.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
I'm going to run this team for the next four years.
But there aren't a whole lot of options there. There's Boden, Barrett,
Steven Petterfitzer Harry Plummer, but two of those guys are
unproven at test level. Boden Barrett hasn't played ten and
test rugby for the best part of two years. Raisers
stuck with Damien and he's given them every opportunity, but
(12:37):
there are real question marks around his game management in
the last quarter, goalkicking under pressure, so he needs to
show a.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
Lot more to own that jersey.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I think back to Dadad and last year and the
Wallabies were really able to rail him in that first
half and Richie came on and you know, build them
out of the line with a long range penalty there
the finish. But I mean that first half was all
Australia and Damien McKenzie just couldn't get.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Out of the pocket.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
Yeah, and a lot of it I think in that
test comes down to platform, and I would argue he's
actually had a reasonable platform. One of the big concerns
with the All Blacks going in South Africa was they
were going to get out muscled the spring Boks. We
know their physicality, but I thought the All Blacks one
of their revelations over there was their set piece, their
breakdown work. As you touched on they matched up physically,
(13:22):
so they provided a platform.
Speaker 7 (13:23):
Yeah, midgame matters we talk about you know, we're talking
about the bench as well. The last quarter. It's not
all down to the beach. It sounded the three is
five pulling the strings of the park and Damien McKinsey
remaining out there and going right, boys, this is how
we get down the other end of the park was
how we get out of trouble. And I think in
the last twenty twenty five minutes the games we haven't
quite si.
Speaker 5 (13:40):
There's also been some reveeling stats around the All Blacks
kicking and their contestable kicks. I think was it Alice
Parker or Cape Town They kept twenty five times and
only got two kicks back. So those sorts of things
are on your game drivers. They need to own those
and their massive parts of their brief.
Speaker 6 (13:56):
And that's an now element of the game where the
All Blacks when they've beaten the Wallabies well and convincingly,
they've dominated them in the kicking battle. And I think
back to Noel Lacio's deve boom in twenty twenty and
he had a Simoni outside of them, and the Wallabies
kicking game was dreadful and the All Blast kicking game
was absolutely elite and they just ran rings around the
Wallabies and I wouldn't be surprised if they go for
(14:19):
a kick heavy focus in that first twenty minutes on
Sunday afternoon.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
We've spoken about the restarts as well on our regular point,
Christie Jets tell me, I mean, what's been the reaction to.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
The wallabys woes therefore?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
And three like the All Blacks clearly a couple of
you know, heavy defeats and then also a much easier
July series against Wales and Georgia got through those you know,
I guess fairly comminently in the end. But I mean,
what's the feeling around Australia Rugby at the moment is
as bad as Mills and Jeff Wilson has believe well.
Speaker 7 (14:52):
I think last year there was a bit of shutting
fraud around Eddie Jones and the whole thing absolutely blying
up and Rugby Australia's face. Now this year I think
is what do we speak for joshmu what is ever
to do with Island, what it is able to do
with the All Blacks? And so because it was a
kiwi in charge. We like Joshmitt, so there's a you know,
watching with an interesting round. How are they going to
get the small beest team out of trouble? But I
(15:12):
think New Zealand Rugby needs the Wallabies to be strong
and be competitive and bleddersow cuts because this is you know,
they've moched together with Super Rugby app. But there's no
two ways about it. Yeah they need Yeah, of course
you said that doesn't want to have the blades lower
every year, but they need these games to feel. But
I just think that at this point in time, you know,
there's a watchful interest in no one saw them get
(15:34):
a glide out while they didn't stand to fake twenty
points to three up. But I just think that there's
probably a feeling that they don't have the.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Cattle at the moment.
Speaker 7 (15:41):
And Joe Schmidt, you know he's with Wonders with Ireland,
with wonders with the All Blacks and turned around some
of that attack that he can over time, if he's
given the time, you know, do some things with this team.
Speaker 5 (15:50):
I think there's an understanding about the Wolves being teared
down and trying to rebuild this team and just what
a salvage mission that is a head of the Lions tour.
But there was a bit of shock certainly and their
result in Argentina, I think what the Wildbies can side
sixty four plods sixty four points in the last fifteen minutes.
(16:12):
You just cannot be performing that bad as a test nation,
right And you hope and you expect that there.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
Was a one off.
Speaker 5 (16:19):
But as Eliev says, New Zealand rugby needs Australia and
I think there is still the interest there because if
you look to next week in Wellington the return Bleeders
though that sold out in Wellington, so that the history,
the legacy of the Beasow Cup still carries weight in
New Zealand's and that the test earlier this year and
Wellington against the Puma was only half full. So the Wallabies,
(16:42):
I guess, no matter what state there and still demands
the respect.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
Or the lure of the New Zealand rugby public.
Speaker 6 (16:50):
The interesting point that you made there was does a
shan Rugby have cattle? I just don't think they do.
And then if you look at two sides this swag,
I think there's only one Wallaby in the fifth day
and there started and that challenge for a place in
the all black stifth day, and I think that's wrong, Valotin.
I think Angus Bell and taniela two on potential would
be close to the twenty three it gets out. It
(17:10):
could tell when you think about someone like an Anton
Lenon Brown, you can't even get a crack or the
Billy Procters of the world. I think I don't even
know if he would. So it's complete mismatches across the
park at the moment. And that's the harsh reality of
it that no one in a Shane Rugby saint's prepared
to be able to swallow at the moment because we
occasionally fool ourselves into thinking that you odd performance against
(17:31):
Wales and Georgia. Wales sent out a second string side
really and fair world to generation themselves. They are only
a rolling war two away from losing there. And and
so look, it's a it's a it's a massive rebuilding
process and it's possible that we're not even at rock
bottom at the moment. You know, everyone thought that off
(17:52):
the back of Eddie's disaster last year that that was
rock bottom. I don't know if it is. We've already
seen the Melbourne Rebels go under this year, it does
seem like doom and gloom, but yeah, like it's it's
a it's a massive wave.
Speaker 7 (18:06):
But if you hear those players coming through at the
US roots into the under twenties, what's the quality of
players like there? Because that's where it all starts, isn't
it getting those players and wanting to play rugby? You know,
are the playing rugby League and at playing AFL because
that's where it all starts. And this is a problem
that you're dealing with now, but in reality it probably
started twenty years ago when maybe kids stopped playing rugby,
stop seeing the heroes.
Speaker 6 (18:26):
Whatever it is you're paying for it now exactly and
rus you'd be able to talk to that as well.
But last ten years it's just seen that rugby players
have been targeted, you know, private schools. Once upon a
time most came through to the World is and now
they go through on Rugby League scholarships. They certainly go
through on AFL scholarships. It's a competitive market. But when
(18:47):
the worldbies don't win, what do you want to then
turn into what their winning?
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Is the key? And it's been far too long since Australia.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Hell the burst less certainly as an Australian and there's
only you know, we've got a generation of kids now.
I've never seen it on this side of the tasmud
And you know, I remember saying to my old man
and the Third Test when Matt Burkey did he shoulder
score in the match winning try of that game, coming
down to Sydney for one of the first few times,
and how nice it would be to see a live
Letislav three And he said, don't ever say that the
(19:17):
first two games it's home and os and I didn't
know what he meant at the time, but here we are,
twenty two years on them.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I clearly understand his message.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Now let's look at the two teams this week, Christie,
it's a big well, not pigins for the wallaby some
inns for the Wallabies, I guess call them and given
you just assassinated, but you've got Noviously Nick White is
the big one coming back in at number nine.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Let's start there.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I think a lot of Wallaby's fans probably disappointed to
see that introduction. Sorry that that addition, but Joe revealing
it was a bit of illness went through the camp
in Argentina and certainly Jake Gordon and Tate McDermott were
a bit tired coming back from that journey, but also
Jake Gordon a fairly unforgivable error that offside there early
(20:04):
in the second half, which just gave Argentina that ability
to continue that momentu and that they built late in
the first half and then scored early after halftime as well.
I think he's probably paid the price for that. But
I mean, what's Nick White going to do this with it?
What does it say about the Wallabies game plan this weekend.
Speaker 6 (20:18):
Well, it's a fascinating if he's been spared because of that,
it's a really interesting selection and it's a bit of
a statement there from Joe Schmidt, so I would have
loved to have heard him talk about that. We didn't
hear any of that. We didn't hear the reasons the
rationale really behind Jake Gordon missing out other than a
somewhat of a mystery illness that's gone through. But let's
be honest. A week and a half, yeah, a week
(20:41):
and a half ago.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Look, Nick White's a prickly character and from what I've
been told, that's one of the reasons why he's been selected.
My own concern about that is that Nick what has
barely played for three months. He started against the spring
Box in Perth and looked for us and the accuracy
of his box kick was not there, kicks fast, too
long and followed actually by Jake Gordon having a pool
(21:02):
match with the Boot a week earlier. But when you're
starting someone that's barely played and you're expecting them to
be perfect, I just don't think it works. And it
didn't work during the day of any era where it
was rotating and revolving door at the night. They have
not been able to set a lot of number nine
for this team, not since Wilgetty had departed. And I
think we've seen Nick White's best tests off the bench.
(21:23):
We saw it in the twenty nineteen World Cup. We
saw it in twenty fifteen when he scored a match
when at the Olympic Park there.
Speaker 6 (21:30):
So it's a big call. It's possibly been made with
the idea of Nola and Coe their partnership, But I
think the other factor in this is that Nick White's
a controlling voice, and I don't know if there's enough
controllers that have won big matches, and when you're trying
to change the ethos of the side and restore some
(21:54):
confidence off the back of complete shellaking, where Joe Schmidt
described it as falling off a cliff. Maybe Nick White
is the sort of guy that could prove help gens.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I know Tate McDermott has a lot of fans and
easy on that you're surprised that the Wallabies haven't used
him on a more consistent basis over the past few years.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
I don't get the aversion into him.
Speaker 7 (22:12):
I think he's a very very good halfs back and
better than the other two options in the squad. Is nippy,
He's really good around the base of the ruck, has
a strong pass and yet he seems to have been
cast into being the specialist introl. He looks like a
leader on the part to me as well. I don't
give why multiple coaches now I sort of consign them
to that wearing the twenty one trees.
Speaker 5 (22:30):
If you look at where the global games going from
a half back perspective, you have to have a running
threat at nine, and Tate.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Mcdonnert is that guy.
Speaker 5 (22:40):
Courtiers Artima is to a certain degree, and Cam royguard
who will come back and be the All Blacks leading
half back as a lethal threat. Anton Dupoulon, you can
go through the list, so he's a point of difference.
When you carry the ball from the ruck, you engage
those defenders and give them so much more to think
about rather than just passing from the base. So maybe
(23:00):
there's a tactical ship with the Worldbees that the All
Blacks back three were badly exposed and Cape Town by
the All Blacks, so maybe they're going to piple them
with highballs and that's why they've gone with neck White.
But take McDermott for me is by far and away
the best halfback because he provides that different threat.
Speaker 6 (23:19):
Well. Interestingly, Eddie Jones one and perhaps the selection he's
got right was topydermot at he played a lot there,
has even given the captains he wasn't he for that
Bledisloe clash across the diction dune Eden And indeed that's
where the Wallabies were outstanding in that first half. So
I think it's a valid point. And you even look
against Argentina he of course scored that try in the
(23:40):
second half, the only points that the wall of he's
got there, but he also engaged a couple of defenders
from a set Be's turned Maerka Corabdi back inside, who
unfortunately then got banged into touch. So would have believed
that a meter out from the line. But that was
another highlights, real moment that didn't really get to be
shyed because Corbeedy didn't finish it off. But you're spot on.
(24:02):
He is a threat, and I think they need more threats.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
How much Jesse?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
You think the all Bays can think that they can
overpower this Quallaby team, particularly in the back line because
it is a small back line that's not better around
the bush, and that was a small tan Hunha will
probably plays, you know, a couple of classes out of
his body weight. He's still a small guy. Icky Tao's
got power, but built barely low to the ground up
against you know, Jordi Enrico, Caleb Clark on that wing.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Up against Andrew Kellaway.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Do they think they'll see some real ability to to
I guess, bludgeon the Wallies in the backs?
Speaker 6 (24:33):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 7 (24:33):
And I think Jordy Barrett has had a relatively quiet
Test season to this point by his own standards. But
I think you look at that channel and where he
might attack on the weekend, Tim Rico Jade. I think
we'll go down that channel very very often. Trunk make
some games there. I think they can do that. Cadile
Clark's been in superb form. We saw him one of
the probably all Blacks best in that game in Johannesburg.
He comes back in this week. He can add some
(24:55):
real running threats out wide. So I think you're right.
I think Bill Blacks will take the chances.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
There and go man to man. We've probably got one
of those numbers Laam up front. Harry Wilson a guy
that Raiser Robins had. It's pretty nice things to say
about a few years ago when he was on the
outer with the Wallabies, and I think it was a
bit like Tate McDermott, the curiousness that why the Wallabies
weren't giving Harry Wilson more time. He fill out a
favor under Dave Bran. He didn't get a look in
(25:21):
under Eddie last year. But he looks like a Joe
Schmitt player.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Yeah, he's curious for me.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
He's almost a New Zealand style los forward and has
ability to offload range in the wide channels. He's got
all the skills. Maybe he's not the biggest physical specimen.
Maybe that's why he fell out of favor, but there's
certainly surprised. He always performs well against KIV teams with
the Reds, so he works hard, which fills the Joe
(25:49):
Schmitt Cup. But just in terms of the upfront battle,
I think that's where the All Blacks. You talk about
the power based approach, I think that's where they'll really
come for the Wallabies. Their scrum was disintegrated against the
Pomas and that's been a real strength of the All
Blacks this year under Jason Ryan, so I think Mike
Cron's got a hell of a task hit of them
to keep their area stable and get some parody there.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
This week, Christie, we put the heat on James Slipper
and Alan Alatower. James Slipper breaks the record this week
and he's been an amazing servant of the Wallabies in
Australian rugby broadly for many years now. But we said
it a couple of weeks ago as I said that
there's no hiding from the fact that these two guys
were put under pressure by the Fijian drawer during Super
Rugby and again this weekend. I mean, firstly, the Wallabies
(26:34):
need more than thirty five minutes out of tan yellow tupo.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Which the way the weather's going, I think we've got
maybe a little bit cool.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Than today's sort of twenty four to twenty five degrees,
maybe a touch cooler. I kick off at four o'clock
or thereabouts. But they need at least forty five minutes
from Taniello this week surely.
Speaker 6 (26:49):
Yeah, they certainly do because as our Keywei friends have
just pointed out, there's not that many ball carriers. It's
a really small back line. The power game will be
on display. Caleb Clark will be thinking of what he
did in that semi final against the Brumbies. I think
it was where it ran straight over now along the CEO.
So you need an anger spill and a taniela Tuo
pay to go a minimum forty five really and that
(27:12):
should be the expectation now those guys have been back
for a little while that they managed. I didn't play
huge minutes so far throughout this international campaign. So the
scrum the Wallabies have to be there there abouts at
halftime to have any form of chance. Because it's an
amazing record that James Slipper is going to be achieving
(27:34):
this weekend. There's going to be a whole host of
former Wallaby's there that are flying in to congratulate him, like,
this is a guy that we should be putting up
in a mantle right now. Going one hundred and forty tests.
He's going to be playing an absolute warrior of the game,
but unfortunately he is struggling and we can't dance around
that issue at the moment. So yeah, the scrum is
(27:54):
going to be a big one. And look, you've got
some giants that you're bringing on and even a safer
a Moor the hooker, he's humongous and we saw our
damaging hewards throughout Super Unky two, so gome throw a
light out to save himself.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Totally, totally, and you compare to that he's at in
an area where the Wallabies may be able to get
a bit of it up well.
Speaker 6 (28:12):
The defensive lineup for the Wallabies has been probably one
of their strengths throughout the season, so absolutely they'll be
targeting that. Luke ant Solaqui Lodo comes out off the
bench too, so Hanger and Moosa and Luke Kahn will
help the Wallabies at a scrum perspective, particularly Brandon's definitely
the best scrummaging hooker in Australia and then Lu can't
(28:33):
packs a fair bit of weight in and so there'll
be more meat to these bones for this for this park.
But you're concerned when when your guys are bringing it
off as sever res off the bench, and we know
how damaging he was throughout, So yeah.
Speaker 7 (28:47):
Absolutely, I mean in these in the past being used
by Scott Robertson obviously started most of the games with
the Crusaders, but in the past is come on in
their twenty three jersey to the Crusaders and had a
roving commission to attack the breakdown to basically just pop
up anywhere on the park. And I can see him
trying to do the same thing on the week in
last twenty twenty five minutes because we're discussed with the
All Blacks have struggled, He's gonna up all over the
(29:09):
park And there was a step today that Josh mc minschell.
I think it's been twelve All Blacks players that have
attacked the breakdown and one breakdown ball this year. Visity
number of threats that the All Blacks are able to
try and leation that part of the game.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
Bussileo toss is the other one that Elliott mentioned. There's
only playing a sick in test. He's a former number
eight converted to tight end prop, massive unit, very dynamic
with ball in hands. So he'll come off the bench
and add.
Speaker 6 (29:34):
Some real punch and Asraezer said today, sir.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Loves the flood. Don't will Brasen mc right, Christy, we
haven't mentioned him.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
He kind of felt like the guy that the Wallabies
miss badly, particularly in that second half in Santa Fe
two weeks ago. We know his ability to get around
the paddy, covers a lot of grounds, makes a lot
of tackles. Great support player Afternoon footy again this week
it kind of feels like a game Taylor made for Fraser.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
How I guess how.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Important and he being shifting what was a fairly terrible
performance from the Wallabies two weeks ago. He's a reasonable
in as well. Yeah he is, and look I don't
want to be to negative very thin. But he's come
back from his miss last full tests, hasn't he? So
he Paisami has missed the last couple. So there's a
few new faces into this Wallaby side that are quickly
(30:22):
going to have to get up to speed and that's
including on the bench as well with Pangro Moosa having
not played since the end of March.
Speaker 6 (30:27):
So yes, Fraser is quality. I completely agree. He would
have been absolutely so helpful in Argentina. He is probably
the fittest ward. You would have to say from a
Wallaby's perspective, Tasano is an interesting and no way in
the world would have ever played both in the starting fifteen.
And if you're going to include both, I think you
(30:49):
would have started to Sana to allow Mick right to
have his running game in the last thirty. But I
think the fact that he's got such a great relationship
with Harry Wilson, with Tate McDermott from the Reds piss
army as well. To have that kind of nucleus of
the Reds kind of back row loose trio, that's a
That's an area again the wall will want to be
able to use, but you can only do that if
(31:11):
you get some front football. Because mcwright has trouble to
show against the All Blacks a little bit in the past.
He hasn't been nearly as effective on the burn. It's
a game played by Warriors International rugby and that's where
Sam Caine has really shone for the All Blacks for
so so long and to have human artist severa up
against Fraser. You just mentioned that there was twelve guys
(31:34):
that have got breakdown turnovers. Tausana got three of them
against Argentina in the first Test, barely any whatsoever in
that second match. Mcwright's going to have to be able
to fill the void of Tusana before you get some
tips poison and we'll wrap up. I want to get
your thoughts on the Lions next year. I'm sure you'll
be keen observers from the other side of the tasma.
(31:54):
Maybe even you might get a cheeky flight over her
nose for a game or two. But we've seen Ben
Youngs come out in the last seven days and take
a shot at the Wallaby saying they should send out
the twenty thirteen lines or the line should go to
South Africa. Is there enough time in your mind for
everything we've said.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Tonight around the Wallaby's depth is years, the challenge, the
short time run that Joe Shmi has got into July
next year, can you see the wall He's taking a
game from the lines next year?
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Will this be a competitive series.
Speaker 5 (32:23):
Yeah, look forward to coming back next year for the
POD and us getting stuck into things.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
Look, I think.
Speaker 5 (32:31):
It's very easy to be reactionary after on the back
of a horrific result, and you know, where as guilty
as that as anyone. I think there is enough time,
but you can't deny the scale of the rebuild of
the challenge. I think you need to bring some overseas
guys back to add some bulkanank, bulk and experience. Will Skelton,
(32:52):
you know, it's been really tough to get him out
of his French club, and there's a couple of others
that would help. But look, Joe Shmitt is shrewd. He's
only committed through to the Line series. I think he'll
have that in mind. It's still a few tests, but no,
I don't see them taking the test off the lines
at this point.
Speaker 6 (33:11):
I wouldn't roll it out. I mean the Lions, yeah,
six weeks.
Speaker 7 (33:15):
They get together beforehand and everyone forgets the Lines actually
have not had the greatest record. Everyone sees them as
a superior of four and it's because Ireland a very
good at moment and England's not bad. But in riality
they lost to a sou African team that hadn't played
for eighteen months in the last series. So why do
we always give the British Irish lines so much respect?
Speaker 3 (33:33):
I just did not get it.
Speaker 6 (33:35):
They also they go, you drew the series of you
guys in twenty seventeen, so that was apparently while to
great all Black stating it's looking like it'll be.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
Island is Yeah, I'm know the plan there's started cresting.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Andy Farrell coach, of course, would you Emily on his
Island starting team with a few key editions, Christie, I
know there's a lot of well not a hell of
a lot of time it went now and then, but
we've got this test, the return gaming weally to next
week and then the spring tour and then basically that's
it the line until the lines arrived next year. And
what do you want to see this week end? Joe
(34:08):
Schmidt has talked a lot about he's a pragmatist. He
wants to see just improvements from particularly in those areas
that were so bad in that second half in Santa Fe.
I guess what's a step forward this week for the
Wallabies If it's not a victory?
Speaker 6 (34:24):
Yeah, I can't say bang a victory and I think
All Blacks will win well. But I think interestingly, the
Wallabies typically do respond really well off the back of
the big loss. We've seen that for a long long
time in Bledisloughs. We saw it in twenty seventeen when
they nearly went and Dune Eden, and then we saw
it even last year in dun Eden. We're off the
back of a comprehensive loss. So there is definitely history
(34:47):
as well as the fact that new wall of these
coaches have typically done well against the All Blacks, But
history aside, I think what you need to see from
them is to see some starts start to come through
and if Joe Schmid is going to stick solid with
these guys, look, I think I think you'd want to
see this to ability with the hearts as the real
(35:09):
crucial element. To me, I just think the fact that
we're seeing and I know that Noah's had an injury
or so and he missed the last test, but Scott
Robinson has decided to stick with Damian McKenzie under so
much pressure this year, with a lot of people saying
he's not the solution. Well, I think we need to
see someone stick with ten here at the moment, perhaps
(35:30):
the nine, and I'm surprised he's gone back to Nick
White for this match, but that's what I want to see,
some stability there in selection because they're not going to
get anywhere by just continually throwing in the next debutante.
Sixteen is way too many, So yeah, stability.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Sixty thousand crowds remembered this week certainly, I think that's
what are are talking about. There'll be a lot of
Wallabies fans. They'll be giving the team another chance. I
guess what's then we'll have people walking away from this
weekend as a good score line. You're not seeing any
chance of a victory, is it, say, within fifteen to
twenty points? Yeah, look, I think ten points would be
(36:06):
if they couldn't loose po ten. I think at least
you're thinking that for it's going to be a dry track,
so there's no excuses from a weather perspective. It should
be an attractive game to get watch, So maybe that's
what your hope. Fans leave thinking. You know what, the
All Blacks might might win, and they might win well,
but bloody hell, they.
Speaker 6 (36:24):
Played some great rugby, so we want to see people
walk away from rugby in a positive mind.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
Denzil All Blacks by how many?
Speaker 5 (36:32):
I think the line with New Zealand book makers is
thirteen and a half and I think most New zeal
And rugby fans argue in the context of recent results
would would be disappointed if it's not their margin.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Flacks by twenty.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
If you're a Wallaby span looking for a stat the
Wellabies are undefeated with key Week coaches in their first
game against the All Blacks Robbie Deans of course winning
at Stadium Australia in twoes and eight I think it was.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
And then Dave Ready.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Coming within a couple of coats of de lux there
in Wellington of any along drought on New Zealand soil,
so the straws are everywhere. Ifutch you're calling that back
bit of one that hold on to it this week,
give you heading to the course stadium. Gents, thanks very
much for coming in. Fantastic have you in the schmid house.
Christie is ever good to see you, mate. And that's
it from us for this letter, Slow special, enjoy the
(37:19):
footy on Saturday afternoon. We'll bring you all the fallout,
all the reaction here at ESPN.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
For more from News Talk, set B listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk sed B.
Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hi, welcome to this special edition of the ESPN Scrum
Reset Podcast. Sam Bruce joined us ever by Christy Dora
and Christy got a couple of special guests in the
Schmid house this week.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
He had to let.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Uslow one the Rugby direct boys, Elliott Smith, Liam Nabier,
welcome in.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Great to be here to me.
Speaker 5 (00:36):
Here's Sam Sidney's send it on for us and look
forward to one of you boys up.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
You're blowing a bit of a Meghan Gale out there
this afternoon, but glad we turned the warm weather on
for you this week. Christie has plenty to talk about.
Let us slow week. It's always a big week here
in Sydney and across Australia. First time we've had this
game here in Sydney since twenty twenty COVID times.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
We've been through two.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Coaches since them, Dave Readie into Eddie Jones, now Joe Schmith.
We're back at a Courl Stadium. The crowd around about
sixty thousand. How are you?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
How are the vibes this week? You've been in Sydney
in your travels.
Speaker 6 (01:11):
Well, you're right, the weather has turned it on. I
know that Raised Robinson will get too later on, but
he was enjoying and joining the surf and that's what
our New Zealand friends are enjoying right now. But I'll
tell you what it does seem quite. I know that
the three of us, the four of us, we love
our agy, we get to we know, we live and
breathe it. But if you look around that the Shanne landscape,
the media landscape, is the blendesslope buzz there right now,
(01:34):
I don't know if it is, but hopefully Saturday afternoon
they will be boys.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Give us a sense of the vibes in New Zealand
at I'm and around Scott robertson this new Paul Blacks
of Year, Eliot, I know you're in South Africa and
calling the games for news talk. Zed be two losses
to tight losses. What's been the I guess the feedback
the response to those two defeats of South Africa and
I guess three defeats out of four and the RUGBA gym. Yeah,
(01:59):
I think there's been a few wobbles with this team
since they started and probably haven't seen the game plan
that we was thinking we might get from Scotlarly on
his ten yures taken a wildest sort of imprint, his
fingerprints on the Seamon in South Africa.
Speaker 7 (02:11):
Maybe going over there and getting we'll win it. A
loss would have been a good return, but they've ended
up with two close losses. Glass a full approach, you see.
Actually there's some signs building there that maybe beginning to
see the game plan. But again they were defeats and
if you're an All Blacks team that hasn't ended over
the Freedom Cup to so Afya since two thousand and
a night, you've just done it for the first time
since then, you're not going to win the Rugby Championship.
(02:33):
So it does ultimately feel like a step back.
Speaker 6 (02:35):
To this point.
Speaker 7 (02:36):
It's you're optimist, you can see that there's something happening
in this All Blacks team. If you're not, you figure
it's more of the same and maybe you've step backwards
from last.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Year and Lamb.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Meanwhile, we've got Mills Lilian telling as here in Australia
it's our fault that the All Blacks are Batlan bar
under Scott Robinson and Alida Hills if you're watching Jeff
Wilson some interesting excuses.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
As well, but.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
His raising getting a bit of a free hit at
the moment. Or are you guys at the public starting
to come I guess is the tide turning because everyone
thought he was going to come in and you know
it was going to be to raise the six that
he's had with Canterbury and then the Crusaders obviously clearly
doesn't have his made man Richiemonger there, but I guess
the magic hasn't turned up in the Black Jersey just yet.
Speaker 6 (03:17):
No.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
I think you know, the War Tales obviously have to
cop their first.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Year of culpability.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
But you're right, Razor came in with a massive amount
of public goodwill. Seven titles were the Crusaders, he was
the Golden Goose, Haid the Midas Touch and I think
he's found out very quickly that Test rugby is a
very different beast, so that the midpoint in this season
he's four wins, three losses and it's been disappointing, frustrating.
(03:44):
I think the loss of Alice Park was heartening to
a degree. There was a lot of good to take
out of that, but the following week disheartening because the
All Blacks probably went backwards and they didn't improve the
final quarter meltdowns. It was a big issue and one
of the frustrations for me from a selection perspective. Razor
came in with a bit of a mandate to evolve
(04:07):
this team post World Cup. We've had a lot of departures,
there's a lot of coaching changes, and it's largely been
much of the same. He hasn't brought through a lot
of youth, and the youth he has brought through has
been largely booked, so still waiting for him to really
put his imprint. As Elliot said, the honor his game plan,
but also the selections.
Speaker 6 (04:27):
I find it surprising the idea that Rais has been
considered ben conservative. I actually think it's the other way around.
I think that Rais has done the Zach right thing
in terms of selection. He's gone with guys, the generational
change over overnight with Aaron Smith, with Brady Retallic, Sam Whitelock,
Dane Coles. You take that heartbeat out, you need to
(04:48):
keep the other familiar faces that have been there for
the last few years. So look, I'd love to know
who these faces are that people keep going what about him?
What about him? What Sam Kaine? If you don't have
a Sam Kain who's wearing the nump seven jersey tomorrow
on Saturday. Rather, I'm wondering where the experience. It's where
the leadership is because you need to have these guys
there whilst you bring in your court is Radamus who's
(05:11):
there because of injuries to other people who would have
been new faces anyway, given that Rsmith no longer.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Well it's a fair point.
Speaker 5 (05:18):
But guys like Wallace to Tt that the success stories
of this all black team have come from the youth.
So Wallace to Tt was a standout at Blindside, he
only came in against the spring Box because of injuries.
Tupu Vai has been one of the revelations at Locke
to Mighty Williams another young guy in the front row.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
And then just some of the selections.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
Riko Wanne's dropped one week, he's brought back the next
Will Jordan starts at fullback, then he's the next week
he's on the wing. So struggling to see a bit
of a plan here. And Billy Proctor is another one.
He was the standout center and super rugby was brilliant
against Fiji and he hasn't been cited since, so rika
Awani's approven talents in the midfield, but he's under a
(05:59):
bit of pressure, so I think people just want to
see the youth come through a little bit more. But
you're right, there has been massive change and there's still
some experience. But we talk about guys like Sam Kaine, TJ.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Pittanara.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
They're leaving at the end of the year, so they're
not the future. And there is the balance between the
win and the now and plan for the future. You
have to win every test as an All Black coach,
so it is a difficult balancing act.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Kind of feels like the most interesting.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Intriguing All Blacks period we've had for some time. And
I look at the squad that they've got now, and
particularly the bench, and with all due respect to the
All Blacks, and I said this from a Wallaby's perspective,
who won four and three and I go through a
massive period of change over and heap in you basis
sixteen deputantes this season. But I compare this to the
great All Blacks teams of twenty eleven to twenty fifteen,
(06:47):
and it doesn't It doesn't fright me as a Wallaby
thinking as a Wallaby supporter, and that's saying as you know,
clearly I expect them to get beaten this weekend and
beaten handsomely. But comparing this current era to that one
now and it's just not the same. We see the
Springboks having you know, a brilliant time but clearly the
world's best team. Ireland may have something to say about that,
(07:09):
but they are going through a real moment, a golden period,
and I just think that the All Blacks have come
out of that. There's going to be a shuffling period
here for Scott robertson how long it takes him to
navigate it.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
And it's an excellent.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Point around you know, TJ Paranara and Sam Cane finishing
up this year, that's even more experience going out of
that side, almost a tail end of that great generation
finishing up. And I mean Robinson's got rasores, He's got
a job ahead of it.
Speaker 7 (07:33):
Yeah, we can't managine it up gage test which experience.
It's the only way is by getting this Buzzers experience
and getting them in there and those final quarter bell
Jones that have talked about they probably haven't got that
bench exactly right and there's a little bit of experimentation
again we sit this week in with Tomasi Williams and
Pussily or tossing that coming off the bench too big
impactful props rather than off thing a fussy which are
(07:53):
new Auklands engin. So there's a little bit of trial
in Europe I think going on with this all Blacks team,
and then what the actual Beast twenty three is. We
haven't seen it through seven tes so far in the season.
We might not e con see it till perhaps the
end of the year tour and then maybe even early
next year. Where you go, okay, this is what Scott
Roberts wants to get out of this team. This is
his ideal twenty three, first choice, but at this point
it feels like it's mix and match and trying to
(08:15):
see how things work.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
They were brilliant of the breakdown in Cape Town. I
think it was four or five steals from a variety
of players. The Wallabies have only gone with one fetch
will come and we'll dig into these two teams shortly
this weekend.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Only phrasing were right.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Joshmik did comment today that he thought about considering the
two fetcher approach, which coincidentally Michael Checker the first time
he blooded Michael Hooper and David Pocock together was his
first letislough here in Sydney in twenty fifteen. There's a
little statwoy Christie.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
But I mean it's not all doom and glue. Is it?
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Like? There were patches there and at the final quarter
is clearly an issue your piece for us a couple
of weeks ago, Lamb having scored a point after the
fifty second minute there for three tests running and that's
got to be a big concern.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
I mean, can that.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I don't think it'll be a concern this week somehow
given the way that they played it here in Sydney
in recent times. But is that, I mean, what is
the issue there with the batch Didney.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
I think it's a multitude of things. It's Scot Robinson's
maintained the.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
Fact that there are opportunities there and if you look
at the last test in Cape Town, Damien McKenzie missed
I think at least two penalties, so there were opportunities
for the All Blacks to score points. But it's not
just who's on the bench. It's the use of it
as well, some weird strange use of the bench. Some
players playing five minutes, ten minutes, fifteen minutes. It's really
(09:34):
hard to get into the contest and so I think
there's been a lack of trust in that bench. You
saw the changes and the last test for the All
Blacks they went back to experience with Boden Barrett and
TJ Peinara going back to the bench this week. It
is reasonably an experience, so, like Elliott says, it is
still a bit of trial and error, and it also
is a reflection.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Of those guys who have left post World Cup. And
this has sparked a discussion in New Zealand and ongoing
discussion about should New Zealand rugby sleep from overseas because
if you bring back one or two or three players
and bolster your death, that's where the bench is feeling
the most pain. So that's an ongoing discussion.
Speaker 5 (10:14):
I know, as you guys through there's various different models
around the world in Australia, South Africa and the like
Ritchie Mooman you touched on as Raises Man. He's his
quarterback and he would desperately love them back. He can't
select them from Japan, and there's a few others leicesterifying
and look you and maybe you would bring back in
Aaron Smith, but that does compromise courts at Artima's development,
(10:37):
so that there's pros and cons the eree.
Speaker 6 (10:39):
It's a fascinating argument. I'm strongly in the camp that
Rugan Australia needs to look abroad. It's so clear that
two decades without the Bladisloe Cup and last year's embarrassing
World Cup performance, that you need to look abroad because
the talent here is just not strong enough. But comparatively,
I think it is still very much strong enough in
(11:01):
New Zealand. And even the fact that the discussions at
Richie Muwanga might well come back in a year or
two his testament to the strength of the eligibility laws
that are on offer at the moment. Richie likely will
come back. He was thinking about playing for a different
nation at the next World Cup. That won't occur if
he's back in New Zealand and super Rugby. So I
(11:22):
think it'd be so naive and short sighted to try
and ban the rules because of one or two people.
And then if you do that, you can the genie
is out of the bottle.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
It's easy to look for.
Speaker 7 (11:32):
A short term flex, isn't it. You go, Okay, we've
lost to loss two matches in South Africa, you go,
how do we fix it? Well, these players overseas that
are quite ended. But does it actually help your development
of your test team in two years time, five years time,
ten years time. I think the jury is out on that.
I do think thy professional sport moves at a real
clip and sometimes you just can't. You can't go into
the tie. Sometimes you've got to make these decisions. So
(11:52):
es fascinating to see we used on rugby lens on it.
I think they're going to at some point get to
a model where maybe it's one forward, one back or
something like that.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
To put it as all blext.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Before we come to your thoughts on the Wallabies boys,
is Damian McKenzie's honestly running out of time at number ten? Yes,
And though he hasn't grasped that ten, Jersey hasn't stated
his case and said this is mine.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
I'm going to run this team for the next four years.
But there aren't a whole lot of options there. There's Boden, Barrett,
Steven Petterfitzer Harry Plummer, but two of those guys are
unproven at test level. Boden Barrett hasn't played ten and
test rugby for the best part of two years. Raisers
stuck with Damien and he's given them every opportunity, but
(12:37):
there are real question marks around his game management in
the last quarter, goalkicking under pressure, so he needs to
show a.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
Lot more to own that jersey.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I think back to Dadad and last year and the
Wallabies were really able to rail him in that first
half and Richie came on and you know, build them
out of the line with a long range penalty there
the finish. But I mean that first half was all
Australia and Damien McKenzie just couldn't get.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Out of the pocket.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
Yeah, and a lot of it I think in that
test comes down to platform, and I would argue he's
actually had a reasonable platform. One of the big concerns
with the All Blacks going in South Africa was they
were going to get out muscled the spring Boks. We
know their physicality, but I thought the All Blacks one
of their revelations over there was their set piece, their
breakdown work. As you touched on they matched up physically,
(13:22):
so they provided a platform.
Speaker 7 (13:23):
Yeah, midgame matters we talk about you know, we're talking
about the bench as well. The last quarter. It's not
all down to the beach. It sounded the three is
five pulling the strings of the park and Damien McKinsey
remaining out there and going right, boys, this is how
we get down the other end of the park was
how we get out of trouble. And I think in
the last twenty twenty five minutes the games we haven't
quite si.
Speaker 5 (13:40):
There's also been some reveeling stats around the All Blacks
kicking and their contestable kicks. I think was it Alice
Parker or Cape Town They kept twenty five times and
only got two kicks back. So those sorts of things
are on your game drivers. They need to own those
and their massive parts of their brief.
Speaker 6 (13:56):
And that's an now element of the game where the
All Blacks when they've beaten the Wallabies well and convincingly,
they've dominated them in the kicking battle. And I think
back to Noel Lacio's deve boom in twenty twenty and
he had a Simoni outside of them, and the Wallabies
kicking game was dreadful and the All Blast kicking game
was absolutely elite and they just ran rings around the
Wallabies and I wouldn't be surprised if they go for
(14:19):
a kick heavy focus in that first twenty minutes on
Sunday afternoon.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
We've spoken about the restarts as well on our regular point,
Christie Jets tell me, I mean, what's been the reaction to.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
The wallabys woes therefore?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
And three like the All Blacks clearly a couple of
you know, heavy defeats and then also a much easier
July series against Wales and Georgia got through those you know,
I guess fairly comminently in the end. But I mean,
what's the feeling around Australia Rugby at the moment is
as bad as Mills and Jeff Wilson has believe well.
Speaker 7 (14:52):
I think last year there was a bit of shutting
fraud around Eddie Jones and the whole thing absolutely blying
up and Rugby Australia's face. Now this year I think
is what do we speak for joshmu what is ever
to do with Island, what it is able to do
with the All Blacks? And so because it was a
kiwi in charge. We like Joshmitt, so there's a you know,
watching with an interesting round. How are they going to
get the small beest team out of trouble? But I
(15:12):
think New Zealand Rugby needs the Wallabies to be strong
and be competitive and bleddersow cuts because this is you know,
they've moched together with Super Rugby app. But there's no
two ways about it. Yeah they need Yeah, of course
you said that doesn't want to have the blades lower
every year, but they need these games to feel. But
I just think that at this point in time, you know,
there's a watchful interest in no one saw them get
(15:34):
a glide out while they didn't stand to fake twenty
points to three up. But I just think that there's
probably a feeling that they don't have the.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Cattle at the moment.
Speaker 7 (15:41):
And Joe Schmidt, you know he's with Wonders with Ireland,
with wonders with the All Blacks and turned around some
of that attack that he can over time, if he's
given the time, you know, do some things with this team.
Speaker 5 (15:50):
I think there's an understanding about the Wolves being teared
down and trying to rebuild this team and just what
a salvage mission that is a head of the Lions tour.
But there was a bit of shock certainly and their
result in Argentina, I think what the Wildbies can side
sixty four plods sixty four points in the last fifteen minutes.
(16:12):
You just cannot be performing that bad as a test nation,
right And you hope and you expect that there.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
Was a one off.
Speaker 5 (16:19):
But as Eliev says, New Zealand rugby needs Australia and
I think there is still the interest there because if
you look to next week in Wellington the return Bleeders
though that sold out in Wellington, so that the history,
the legacy of the Beasow Cup still carries weight in
New Zealand's and that the test earlier this year and
Wellington against the Puma was only half full. So the Wallabies,
(16:42):
I guess, no matter what state there and still demands
the respect.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
Or the lure of the New Zealand rugby public.
Speaker 6 (16:50):
The interesting point that you made there was does a
shan Rugby have cattle? I just don't think they do.
And then if you look at two sides this swag,
I think there's only one Wallaby in the fifth day
and there started and that challenge for a place in
the all black stifth day, and I think that's wrong, Valotin.
I think Angus Bell and taniela two on potential would
be close to the twenty three it gets out. It
(17:10):
could tell when you think about someone like an Anton
Lenon Brown, you can't even get a crack or the
Billy Procters of the world. I think I don't even
know if he would. So it's complete mismatches across the
park at the moment. And that's the harsh reality of
it that no one in a Shane Rugby saint's prepared
to be able to swallow at the moment because we
occasionally fool ourselves into thinking that you odd performance against
(17:31):
Wales and Georgia. Wales sent out a second string side
really and fair world to generation themselves. They are only
a rolling war two away from losing there. And and
so look, it's a it's a it's a massive rebuilding
process and it's possible that we're not even at rock
bottom at the moment. You know, everyone thought that off
(17:52):
the back of Eddie's disaster last year that that was
rock bottom. I don't know if it is. We've already
seen the Melbourne Rebels go under this year, it does
seem like doom and gloom, but yeah, like it's it's
a it's a massive wave.
Speaker 7 (18:06):
But if you hear those players coming through at the
US roots into the under twenties, what's the quality of
players like there? Because that's where it all starts, isn't
it getting those players and wanting to play rugby? You know,
are the playing rugby League and at playing AFL because
that's where it all starts. And this is a problem
that you're dealing with now, but in reality it probably
started twenty years ago when maybe kids stopped playing rugby,
stop seeing the heroes.
Speaker 6 (18:26):
Whatever it is you're paying for it now exactly and
rus you'd be able to talk to that as well.
But last ten years it's just seen that rugby players
have been targeted, you know, private schools. Once upon a
time most came through to the World is and now
they go through on Rugby League scholarships. They certainly go
through on AFL scholarships. It's a competitive market. But when
(18:47):
the worldbies don't win, what do you want to then
turn into what their winning?
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Is the key? And it's been far too long since Australia.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Hell the burst less certainly as an Australian and there's
only you know, we've got a generation of kids now.
I've never seen it on this side of the tasmud
And you know, I remember saying to my old man
and the Third Test when Matt Burkey did he shoulder
score in the match winning try of that game, coming
down to Sydney for one of the first few times,
and how nice it would be to see a live
Letislav three And he said, don't ever say that the
(19:17):
first two games it's home and os and I didn't
know what he meant at the time, but here we are,
twenty two years on them.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I clearly understand his message.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Now let's look at the two teams this week, Christie,
it's a big well, not pigins for the wallaby some
inns for the Wallabies, I guess call them and given
you just assassinated, but you've got Noviously Nick White is
the big one coming back in at number nine.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Let's start there.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I think a lot of Wallaby's fans probably disappointed to
see that introduction. Sorry that that addition, but Joe revealing
it was a bit of illness went through the camp
in Argentina and certainly Jake Gordon and Tate McDermott were
a bit tired coming back from that journey, but also
Jake Gordon a fairly unforgivable error that offside there early
(20:04):
in the second half, which just gave Argentina that ability
to continue that momentu and that they built late in
the first half and then scored early after halftime as well.
I think he's probably paid the price for that. But
I mean, what's Nick White going to do this with it?
What does it say about the Wallabies game plan this weekend.
Speaker 6 (20:18):
Well, it's a fascinating if he's been spared because of that,
it's a really interesting selection and it's a bit of
a statement there from Joe Schmidt, so I would have
loved to have heard him talk about that. We didn't
hear any of that. We didn't hear the reasons the
rationale really behind Jake Gordon missing out other than a
somewhat of a mystery illness that's gone through. But let's
be honest. A week and a half, yeah, a week
(20:41):
and a half ago.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Look, Nick White's a prickly character and from what I've
been told, that's one of the reasons why he's been selected.
My own concern about that is that Nick what has
barely played for three months. He started against the spring
Box in Perth and looked for us and the accuracy
of his box kick was not there, kicks fast, too
long and followed actually by Jake Gordon having a pool
(21:02):
match with the Boot a week earlier. But when you're
starting someone that's barely played and you're expecting them to
be perfect, I just don't think it works. And it
didn't work during the day of any era where it
was rotating and revolving door at the night. They have
not been able to set a lot of number nine
for this team, not since Wilgetty had departed. And I
think we've seen Nick White's best tests off the bench.
(21:23):
We saw it in the twenty nineteen World Cup. We
saw it in twenty fifteen when he scored a match
when at the Olympic Park there.
Speaker 6 (21:30):
So it's a big call. It's possibly been made with
the idea of Nola and Coe their partnership, But I
think the other factor in this is that Nick White's
a controlling voice, and I don't know if there's enough
controllers that have won big matches, and when you're trying
to change the ethos of the side and restore some
(21:54):
confidence off the back of complete shellaking, where Joe Schmidt
described it as falling off a cliff. Maybe Nick White
is the sort of guy that could prove help gens.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I know Tate McDermott has a lot of fans and
easy on that you're surprised that the Wallabies haven't used
him on a more consistent basis over the past few years.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
I don't get the aversion into him.
Speaker 7 (22:12):
I think he's a very very good halfs back and
better than the other two options in the squad. Is nippy,
He's really good around the base of the ruck, has
a strong pass and yet he seems to have been
cast into being the specialist introl. He looks like a
leader on the part to me as well. I don't
give why multiple coaches now I sort of consign them
to that wearing the twenty one trees.
Speaker 5 (22:30):
If you look at where the global games going from
a half back perspective, you have to have a running
threat at nine, and Tate.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Mcdonnert is that guy.
Speaker 5 (22:40):
Courtiers Artima is to a certain degree, and Cam royguard
who will come back and be the All Blacks leading
half back as a lethal threat. Anton Dupoulon, you can
go through the list, so he's a point of difference.
When you carry the ball from the ruck, you engage
those defenders and give them so much more to think
about rather than just passing from the base. So maybe
(23:00):
there's a tactical ship with the Worldbees that the All
Blacks back three were badly exposed and Cape Town by
the All Blacks, so maybe they're going to piple them
with highballs and that's why they've gone with neck White.
But take McDermott for me is by far and away
the best halfback because he provides that different threat.
Speaker 6 (23:19):
Well. Interestingly, Eddie Jones one and perhaps the selection he's
got right was topydermot at he played a lot there,
has even given the captains he wasn't he for that
Bledisloe clash across the diction dune Eden And indeed that's
where the Wallabies were outstanding in that first half. So
I think it's a valid point. And you even look
against Argentina he of course scored that try in the
(23:40):
second half, the only points that the wall of he's
got there, but he also engaged a couple of defenders
from a set Be's turned Maerka Corabdi back inside, who
unfortunately then got banged into touch. So would have believed
that a meter out from the line. But that was
another highlights, real moment that didn't really get to be
shyed because Corbeedy didn't finish it off. But you're spot on.
(24:02):
He is a threat, and I think they need more threats.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
How much Jesse?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
You think the all Bays can think that they can
overpower this Quallaby team, particularly in the back line because
it is a small back line that's not better around
the bush, and that was a small tan Hunha will
probably plays, you know, a couple of classes out of
his body weight. He's still a small guy. Icky Tao's
got power, but built barely low to the ground up
against you know, Jordi Enrico, Caleb Clark on that wing.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Up against Andrew Kellaway.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Do they think they'll see some real ability to to
I guess, bludgeon the Wallies in the backs?
Speaker 6 (24:33):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 7 (24:33):
And I think Jordy Barrett has had a relatively quiet
Test season to this point by his own standards. But
I think you look at that channel and where he
might attack on the weekend, Tim Rico Jade. I think
we'll go down that channel very very often. Trunk make
some games there. I think they can do that. Cadile
Clark's been in superb form. We saw him one of
the probably all Blacks best in that game in Johannesburg.
He comes back in this week. He can add some
(24:55):
real running threats out wide. So I think you're right.
I think Bill Blacks will take the chances.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
There and go man to man. We've probably got one
of those numbers Laam up front. Harry Wilson a guy
that Raiser Robins had. It's pretty nice things to say
about a few years ago when he was on the
outer with the Wallabies, and I think it was a
bit like Tate McDermott, the curiousness that why the Wallabies
weren't giving Harry Wilson more time. He fill out a
favor under Dave Bran. He didn't get a look in
(25:21):
under Eddie last year. But he looks like a Joe
Schmitt player.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Yeah, he's curious for me.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
He's almost a New Zealand style los forward and has
ability to offload range in the wide channels. He's got
all the skills. Maybe he's not the biggest physical specimen.
Maybe that's why he fell out of favor, but there's
certainly surprised. He always performs well against KIV teams with
the Reds, so he works hard, which fills the Joe
(25:49):
Schmitt Cup. But just in terms of the upfront battle,
I think that's where the All Blacks. You talk about
the power based approach, I think that's where they'll really
come for the Wallabies. Their scrum was disintegrated against the
Pomas and that's been a real strength of the All
Blacks this year under Jason Ryan, so I think Mike
Cron's got a hell of a task hit of them
to keep their area stable and get some parody there.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
This week, Christie, we put the heat on James Slipper
and Alan Alatower. James Slipper breaks the record this week
and he's been an amazing servant of the Wallabies in
Australian rugby broadly for many years now. But we said
it a couple of weeks ago as I said that
there's no hiding from the fact that these two guys
were put under pressure by the Fijian drawer during Super
Rugby and again this weekend. I mean, firstly, the Wallabies
(26:34):
need more than thirty five minutes out of tan yellow tupo.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Which the way the weather's going, I think we've got
maybe a little bit cool.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Than today's sort of twenty four to twenty five degrees,
maybe a touch cooler. I kick off at four o'clock
or thereabouts. But they need at least forty five minutes
from Taniello this week surely.
Speaker 6 (26:49):
Yeah, they certainly do because as our Keywei friends have
just pointed out, there's not that many ball carriers. It's
a really small back line. The power game will be
on display. Caleb Clark will be thinking of what he
did in that semi final against the Brumbies. I think
it was where it ran straight over now along the CEO.
So you need an anger spill and a taniela Tuo
pay to go a minimum forty five really and that
(27:12):
should be the expectation now those guys have been back
for a little while that they managed. I didn't play
huge minutes so far throughout this international campaign. So the
scrum the Wallabies have to be there there abouts at
halftime to have any form of chance. Because it's an
amazing record that James Slipper is going to be achieving
(27:34):
this weekend. There's going to be a whole host of
former Wallaby's there that are flying in to congratulate him, like,
this is a guy that we should be putting up
in a mantle right now. Going one hundred and forty tests.
He's going to be playing an absolute warrior of the game,
but unfortunately he is struggling and we can't dance around
that issue at the moment. So yeah, the scrum is
(27:54):
going to be a big one. And look, you've got
some giants that you're bringing on and even a safer
a Moor the hooker, he's humongous and we saw our
damaging hewards throughout Super Unky two, so gome throw a
light out to save himself.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Totally, totally, and you compare to that he's at in
an area where the Wallabies may be able to get
a bit of it up well.
Speaker 6 (28:12):
The defensive lineup for the Wallabies has been probably one
of their strengths throughout the season, so absolutely they'll be
targeting that. Luke ant Solaqui Lodo comes out off the
bench too, so Hanger and Moosa and Luke Kahn will
help the Wallabies at a scrum perspective, particularly Brandon's definitely
the best scrummaging hooker in Australia and then Lu can't
(28:33):
packs a fair bit of weight in and so there'll
be more meat to these bones for this for this park.
But you're concerned when when your guys are bringing it
off as sever res off the bench, and we know
how damaging he was throughout, So yeah.
Speaker 7 (28:47):
Absolutely, I mean in these in the past being used
by Scott Robertson obviously started most of the games with
the Crusaders, but in the past is come on in
their twenty three jersey to the Crusaders and had a
roving commission to attack the breakdown to basically just pop
up anywhere on the park. And I can see him
trying to do the same thing on the week in
last twenty twenty five minutes because we're discussed with the
All Blacks have struggled, He's gonna up all over the
(29:09):
park And there was a step today that Josh mc minschell.
I think it's been twelve All Blacks players that have
attacked the breakdown and one breakdown ball this year. Visity
number of threats that the All Blacks are able to
try and leation that part of the game.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
Bussileo toss is the other one that Elliott mentioned. There's
only playing a sick in test. He's a former number
eight converted to tight end prop, massive unit, very dynamic
with ball in hands. So he'll come off the bench
and add.
Speaker 6 (29:34):
Some real punch and Asraezer said today, sir.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Loves the flood. Don't will Brasen mc right, Christy, we
haven't mentioned him.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
He kind of felt like the guy that the Wallabies
miss badly, particularly in that second half in Santa Fe
two weeks ago. We know his ability to get around
the paddy, covers a lot of grounds, makes a lot
of tackles. Great support player Afternoon footy again this week
it kind of feels like a game Taylor made for Fraser.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
How I guess how.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Important and he being shifting what was a fairly terrible
performance from the Wallabies two weeks ago. He's a reasonable
in as well. Yeah he is, and look I don't
want to be to negative very thin. But he's come
back from his miss last full tests, hasn't he? So
he Paisami has missed the last couple. So there's a
few new faces into this Wallaby side that are quickly
(30:22):
going to have to get up to speed and that's
including on the bench as well with Pangro Moosa having
not played since the end of March.
Speaker 6 (30:27):
So yes, Fraser is quality. I completely agree. He would
have been absolutely so helpful in Argentina. He is probably
the fittest ward. You would have to say from a
Wallaby's perspective, Tasano is an interesting and no way in
the world would have ever played both in the starting fifteen.
And if you're going to include both, I think you
(30:49):
would have started to Sana to allow Mick right to
have his running game in the last thirty. But I
think the fact that he's got such a great relationship
with Harry Wilson, with Tate McDermott from the Reds piss
army as well. To have that kind of nucleus of
the Reds kind of back row loose trio, that's a
That's an area again the wall will want to be
able to use, but you can only do that if
(31:11):
you get some front football. Because mcwright has trouble to
show against the All Blacks a little bit in the past.
He hasn't been nearly as effective on the burn. It's
a game played by Warriors International rugby and that's where
Sam Caine has really shone for the All Blacks for
so so long and to have human artist severa up
against Fraser. You just mentioned that there was twelve guys
(31:34):
that have got breakdown turnovers. Tausana got three of them
against Argentina in the first Test, barely any whatsoever in
that second match. Mcwright's going to have to be able
to fill the void of Tusana before you get some
tips poison and we'll wrap up. I want to get
your thoughts on the Lions next year. I'm sure you'll
be keen observers from the other side of the tasma.
(31:54):
Maybe even you might get a cheeky flight over her
nose for a game or two. But we've seen Ben
Youngs come out in the last seven days and take
a shot at the Wallaby saying they should send out
the twenty thirteen lines or the line should go to
South Africa. Is there enough time in your mind for
everything we've said.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Tonight around the Wallaby's depth is years, the challenge, the
short time run that Joe Shmi has got into July
next year, can you see the wall He's taking a
game from the lines next year?
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Will this be a competitive series.
Speaker 5 (32:23):
Yeah, look forward to coming back next year for the
POD and us getting stuck into things.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
Look, I think.
Speaker 5 (32:31):
It's very easy to be reactionary after on the back
of a horrific result, and you know, where as guilty
as that as anyone. I think there is enough time,
but you can't deny the scale of the rebuild of
the challenge. I think you need to bring some overseas
guys back to add some bulkanank, bulk and experience. Will Skelton,
(32:52):
you know, it's been really tough to get him out
of his French club, and there's a couple of others
that would help. But look, Joe Shmitt is shrewd. He's
only committed through to the Line series. I think he'll
have that in mind. It's still a few tests, but no,
I don't see them taking the test off the lines
at this point.
Speaker 6 (33:11):
I wouldn't roll it out. I mean the Lions, yeah,
six weeks.
Speaker 7 (33:15):
They get together beforehand and everyone forgets the Lines actually
have not had the greatest record. Everyone sees them as
a superior of four and it's because Ireland a very
good at moment and England's not bad. But in riality
they lost to a sou African team that hadn't played
for eighteen months in the last series. So why do
we always give the British Irish lines so much respect?
Speaker 3 (33:33):
I just did not get it.
Speaker 6 (33:35):
They also they go, you drew the series of you
guys in twenty seventeen, so that was apparently while to
great all Black stating it's looking like it'll be.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
Island is Yeah, I'm know the plan there's started cresting.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Andy Farrell coach, of course, would you Emily on his
Island starting team with a few key editions, Christie, I
know there's a lot of well not a hell of
a lot of time it went now and then, but
we've got this test, the return gaming weally to next
week and then the spring tour and then basically that's
it the line until the lines arrived next year. And
what do you want to see this week end? Joe
(34:08):
Schmidt has talked a lot about he's a pragmatist. He
wants to see just improvements from particularly in those areas
that were so bad in that second half in Santa Fe.
I guess what's a step forward this week for the
Wallabies If it's not a victory?
Speaker 6 (34:24):
Yeah, I can't say bang a victory and I think
All Blacks will win well. But I think interestingly, the
Wallabies typically do respond really well off the back of
the big loss. We've seen that for a long long
time in Bledisloughs. We saw it in twenty seventeen when
they nearly went and Dune Eden, and then we saw
it even last year in dun Eden. We're off the
back of a comprehensive loss. So there is definitely history
(34:47):
as well as the fact that new wall of these
coaches have typically done well against the All Blacks, But
history aside, I think what you need to see from
them is to see some starts start to come through
and if Joe Schmid is going to stick solid with
these guys, look, I think I think you'd want to
see this to ability with the hearts as the real
(35:09):
crucial element. To me, I just think the fact that
we're seeing and I know that Noah's had an injury
or so and he missed the last test, but Scott
Robinson has decided to stick with Damian McKenzie under so
much pressure this year, with a lot of people saying
he's not the solution. Well, I think we need to
see someone stick with ten here at the moment, perhaps
(35:30):
the nine, and I'm surprised he's gone back to Nick
White for this match, but that's what I want to see,
some stability there in selection because they're not going to
get anywhere by just continually throwing in the next debutante.
Sixteen is way too many, So yeah, stability.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Sixty thousand crowds remembered this week certainly, I think that's
what are are talking about. There'll be a lot of
Wallabies fans. They'll be giving the team another chance. I
guess what's then we'll have people walking away from this
weekend as a good score line. You're not seeing any
chance of a victory, is it, say, within fifteen to
twenty points? Yeah, look, I think ten points would be
(36:06):
if they couldn't loose po ten. I think at least
you're thinking that for it's going to be a dry track,
so there's no excuses from a weather perspective. It should
be an attractive game to get watch, So maybe that's
what your hope. Fans leave thinking. You know what, the
All Blacks might might win, and they might win well,
but bloody hell, they.
Speaker 6 (36:24):
Played some great rugby, so we want to see people
walk away from rugby in a positive mind.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
Denzil All Blacks by how many?
Speaker 5 (36:32):
I think the line with New Zealand book makers is
thirteen and a half and I think most New zeal
And rugby fans argue in the context of recent results
would would be disappointed if it's not their margin.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Flacks by twenty.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
If you're a Wallaby span looking for a stat the
Wellabies are undefeated with key Week coaches in their first
game against the All Blacks Robbie Deans of course winning
at Stadium Australia in twoes and eight I think it was.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
And then Dave Ready.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Coming within a couple of coats of de lux there
in Wellington of any along drought on New Zealand soil,
so the straws are everywhere. Ifutch you're calling that back
bit of one that hold on to it this week,
give you heading to the course stadium. Gents, thanks very
much for coming in. Fantastic have you in the schmid house.
Christie is ever good to see you, mate. And that's
it from us for this letter, Slow special, enjoy the
(37:19):
footy on Saturday afternoon. We'll bring you all the fallout,
all the reaction here at ESPN.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
For more from News Talk, set B listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcast on iHeartRadio
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