Rugby Direct - Episode 167

This week on Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier wrap the Super Rugby semi-finals and assess the way the Crusaders and Chiefs were able to get there in contrasting fashion. We look ahead to this week's final and discuss who has more to gain or lose by winning this weekend.

We also select our prospective 35-man squads for the All Blacks test series against France, a week out from the real squad being named and drill down into who the new faces might be.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio, straight
down the middle.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Of dry Diny Scot.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Try these get inside the game from every angle. It's
Rugby direct with Elliot Smith and Liam Napier, powered by
News Talks EDB.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Directs, powered by Habit Health, tackling all
your aches and pains from sports and work. Elliott Smith
with me Liam napi a big old podcast for you today.
Super Rugby Finalists are set, but later on we will
dig in and reveal our all Black squads for the
July series against France ahead of the official naming next week,

(00:59):
and plenty else otherwise to get stuck into as well.
But Liam, welcome in. We have our Super Rugby finalists
and look at the start of the clubs. You said,
that's the Crusaders the Chiefs. In the final you would
have gone, yep, that's about what I expected. Doesn't tell
the false tale after what happened in the first round,
but the semifinals going to script by and large in

(01:19):
terms of who he expected to be the winners, they did.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
And I mean there was a fair bit of drama
in christ Church at least. But yeah, at the start
of the year, the Crusades and Chiefs certainly were among
the best teams in the competition. I would say the
Chiefs have the best roster, the deepest roster in Super rugby.
But I think most people would have expected the Blues
to be in the final given what they did last year,

(01:46):
their dominance in that final, the way they beat the Chiefs.
They had an amazing season and all the talk around
the Blues was that they were going to try and
back it up and have a dynasty and you know
who could stop them.

Speaker 4 (02:00):
Well, it certainly didn't pan out that way.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
They came good in the playoffs, but on the whole,
you'd have to say fairly under whelming season from the
Blues given their roster. They only really lost a kid
Awana a couple of others, but they got Boden Barrett back.

Speaker 4 (02:16):
So disappointing year for them.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
But when you look at the complexion of the finalists,
I think it's fair to say we got the two
best teams in the competition and what.

Speaker 4 (02:27):
A final it should be. Yeah, it should be absolutely.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Let's dig into the two games, and the Chiefs just
too good for the Brumbies in the end. The Brumbies
hung about and had their moments in this contest, but
the Chiefs always felt like, you know, obviously they considered earlier,
but they felt like the Chiefs were always sort of
poised and ready to take charge of the game. And
that's sort of how it eventuated. Eventuated some big penal

(02:50):
easy the side of halftime. They took their moments really well,
I thought, and just when the big moments came into
matter in the last twenty thirty minutes or so, they
began to extend out. It's probably how we saw this
game going it is, and.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
It was interesting to see the two out in Hamilton.
At least one of the stands was sort of half full,
and and given that the Chiefs did not have home
advanced secured, I was surprised by that. But it probably
does speak to Australia's record and coming to New Zealand
for Superraby finals. Never won one here and that continues.

(03:29):
So maybe there's a bit of apathy, or.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
I think there is. Until Australian teams start beating New
Zealanders at home on a regular basis, the crowds will
stay away. Well sort of last week against the Reds
in Christy. You know there were just that's that's I
was going to say, a lack of respect from New
Zealand crowds, but a deserve lack of respect. Australia have
not shown that they deserve to be respected by getting
the punters through the gates at knockout time. Yeah, and there.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
Look, Australia has improved as a collective this year with
the Melbourne Rebels demise and the spreading of that talents.
But when Bush comes to shove, you know, the Brumbies
have been their best team for a number of years
and it was the same script. Really, Yeah, the Reds
were easily cast aside in christ Church the Brumbies, as

(04:14):
you say, we're in that fight for fifty odd minutes
and then a bit of a predictable procession really from
the Chiefs.

Speaker 4 (04:23):
They did what they had to do.

Speaker 3 (04:25):
Standout Portmans performance from Damien McKenzie after being shown up
the week before by Boden Barrett really came to the
fore there kicked very well both tactically and for gold
twenty odd points. Hugely influential performance standing up at the
right time of the year. So that's what you expect
from a playmaker at this time. And yeah, I guess

(04:48):
the Chiefs showing that they can bounce back from a defeat,
But how do they then try and maintain that momentum
and go to christ Church where the Crusaders are obviously
thirty one and zero and not wanting to let go
of their beloved Apollo Project stadium.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah, it's beloved, that is that is for certain. Look,
Danie McKinsey was excellent. That try saving Tackley made on
Tom Bright was big, especially after he'd been run over
by Corey Tool earlier in the game, which is probably
the only blimish really on his night. But I thought
an excellent performance, pulled the strings really really well. I
thought simmer Penny female actually stood up as well. I
thought he was pretty poor the week before against the Blues,

(05:29):
conceded four or five penalties, especially in the closing stages
of that, But I thought he was very, very good
for the Chiefs on that night and just had the
ability to roll their sleeves up and get to work
and keep the Brumbies at bay. I thought it was
a kind of performance that you wanted if you were
Clay McMillan after the week that had been previously and

(05:50):
with a week to come. That was a good semi
final performance.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
It was, and you know, you just know behind the
scenes they would have been not thrashed at training, but
they certainly would have had the message rammed home.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
CLAYT.

Speaker 3 (06:05):
McMillan is not a standoffish guy. When he wants to
tell you something, he'll give it, hit you between the
eyes and that's what you need this time of years.
So well, it's such a fascinating final, isn't it.

Speaker 4 (06:20):
The Chiefs.

Speaker 3 (06:22):
For me, it's a redemption story, a redemption arc over
the whole final. You think of what the Crusaders went
through last year, missed the playoffs for the first time
since twenty fifteen. Yes, they had injuries, but it was
a dire season for a proud franchise that's won fourteen
supertitles and the Chiefs three failed finals a McMillan two

(06:51):
in the past two years. And you know it would
be a real fairy tale for the Chiefs to send
him off to Munster. And conversely, if they don't, then
he sort of brushed with the nearly man.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah, and there've been probably the pace setters across Super
roy regular season.

Speaker 4 (07:15):
The most consistent team for the past three years.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
They held the final in twenty three and then got
beaten that night last year. You know, the Hurricanes were
there are thereabouts, but the Chiefs have always been there
or thereabouts over the last three years. And that's great,
But there are thereabouts doesn't win your titles. You've actually
got to go and take it. And I've you know,
we'll get into the Crusader's blues game shortly, but they

(07:37):
can go down to christ Church and winner. The Crusaders
aren't the infallible team that maybe there were in previous years.
This is going to be a tight final. I suspect,
but there's no reason to produce the Chiefs can't win it.
They went down and did it earlier in the year.
They beat them in Hamilton almost put fifty on them.
But finals foot is different and there's a lot of
Crusaders players that have that experience of being there and

(07:59):
being on the right side of the ledger. Not many
of those Chiefs players have been there and again been
on the right side of ledger. They've been there, but
they don't know that winning. You know, the way to
the finish line the way the championship look.

Speaker 3 (08:09):
If you look at the two rosters, I would say
in most positions, the Chiefs are stronger man for man
purely on paper and their bench, their depth. We've seen
that throughout the year the way they've McMillan has rotated
his squad.

Speaker 4 (08:27):
But yeah, home advantage does matter.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
That that.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
Clearly creates a lot of confidence and composure for the Crusaders.
But you're already seeing the messages coming out of Hamilton
that there's no fear for the Chiefs going to christ Church.
As you mentioned, they've been there this year and actually
had a comfortable victory. I think it was fifteen sixteen points.
Even looking at what the Blues did on Friday night,

(08:56):
could have, would have, should have the way they started,
the way they couldn't finish, but they had the Crusaders
raid all at times. So it is a formidable record.
Thirty one to zero at home. There's a lot of
motive and that Crusaders team to bounce back from what
happened last year, and it was quite notable to see

(09:17):
that the passion from certain players guys like Will Jordan,
who's normally quite conservative. I think that speaks to the
rivalry and the tension that's that's been built by the
likes of Rikowane. But yeah, just from a chief's perspective,
I think they go down there to croast this week
with genuine confidence. They're not missing too many frontline guys.

(09:38):
Antonina Brown, Simon Parker not too sure where he's at.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah, I've heard possibly around six to eight weeks for him.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
Right, But of a big blow then, because he has
been a big mover, very influential, a big man, and
the Crusaders that's where their game almost starts and finishes
up fronts.

Speaker 4 (10:02):
Yeah, very interesting dynamic.

Speaker 3 (10:03):
The other one here is there's always been this belief
that you have to have a wor class playmakers to
win the Super Rugby title or any title.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
Right.

Speaker 4 (10:12):
If the Crusaders do it this year, they really banish
that theory, don't you.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
Well, they do essentially with their third choice depending on
which way you want to view second or third choice.
First five Rivers Rayhannah didn't play really for the first
half of the season. Ta Kima gets injured and Rayhunnah
comes in, I mean Rivers. Rayhanna is the kind of
player that's been mentioned around the Traps as a promising
player for a number of years, but has never really
had a extended crack at Super rugby level. He's been

(10:38):
solid in n PC, but I thought he did a
very good job on the weekend. You know, there was
a couple of errant kicks here in the air, but
played his team in the right areas of the part.
But you're right, it is absolutely rare that a team
would win Super Rugby without having an international quality first
five that is either capped by the time they win
Super Rugby or is about to be captain Super Rugby.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
There's a couple of points there that the technical kicking
can be a bit off from Rivers. But what I
like about him is he's he's brave and he is
increasingly challenging the line and having a crack And what
that does is it just holds the defenses. If you're
just shoveling, defenders can drift off. And so the ability
for him to actually stand and go has made a

(11:24):
big difference to the Crusader's attack and one of the
massive shifts for the Crusaders this year is having faith
in those young guys at ten Rob Penny last year,
how many times did it was a revolving door.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Most weekly, the change, Roley, hoil Heaper, Rayhanna, Kimmitta, who
else you know, I think someone else had to go,
David I really had to go for a week. It was,
as you say, a revolving door. This year, the picked
and sticked where they can. Obviously, Kimda got injured, but
Rayhann has been their guy for the back half of
this campaign.

Speaker 4 (11:53):
Yeah, and they also could have easily.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
There's a bit of conjecture about whether, particularly with Kimmitta's
kicking in, a lot of discussion about whether James O'Connor
should be promoted there and then when he was injured,
the same discussion. But Penny, to his credit, his instilled
faith in Rayhuna, and I think by and large he
is repaying that.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
He certainly is. Let's take a little deeper into that
game on Friday Night, Crusaders twenty one to fourteen over
the Blues. Forty phases. The Blues threw at the Crusaders
right at the very end of the game. Couldn't get
over the line. That's not the full tail of the game,
but it probably sums it up because the Blues threw
everything at it and they just came up short in
the end.

Speaker 3 (12:35):
Well, what a start from the Blues, the fourteen nil up.
They could not have asked to start that game any better,
and they actually had the Crusaders raddled. They were putting
pressure on with their tactical kicking defensively though really good,
very aggressive in their line speed and their physical contact
the Crusaders, you know, Cody Taylor dropping a couple and

(12:58):
there was another instance they were under pressure. But the
game sort of swung a wee bit on those yellow
cards for head contact. It's unfortunate, but that's part of
the modern game, whether it's accidental or not.

Speaker 4 (13:15):
The Crusaders got back into the grind.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
Personally, I didn't think James Dolman had a great game,
but I also don't believe that that costs the Blues.
There was some ill discipline on their behalf. Hoskinstitutu, one
player who in recent weeks had played really, really well,
was well contained and then had had a brain explosion
when he was Ethan Blackharry came in and shouldered really

(13:41):
unnecessary momentum swinging penalty in that regard, unfortunate late yellow cards.

Speaker 4 (13:48):
Hoskins, Tutuo but that's the whistle.

Speaker 3 (13:52):
I think it was eight to three in the first
half and the Crusaders favor and sixteen to nine by
the end of the match. If the Blues, if that
penalty account is even and the Blues tighten up some
of the ill discipline, I think they possibly win that
game because the Crusaders it just allowed them to come
back into the match, to get into the grind, to
work their way downfield to erode the Blues lead, and

(14:17):
the Crusaders scored twenty one oncer points in the end.
So while the Blues had that crack at the end,
the Crusaders really just went about their work and strangled, suffocated.
The Blues forced them into errors. So the Blues will
rue that one because from that start it was in

(14:38):
the palm of their hand.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
I was sent some stats last week from neck Bulu,
who's got the call for us this week on gold
Sport of the final. The Crusaders have a thirteen and
two record with James Domen that was heading into the weekend.
The Blues are five and seven record, So that to
me seduced that. Yeah, maybe the Blues didn't get the
rub of the green necessarily, but they haven't adapted over

(14:59):
time to Doman. You know the record in Super rugby
the last few years, you know they wonder title. You
should have a five and seven record against the New
Zealand referee, regardless of who it is, you should be,
you know, having a better record than that. So that
to me, So you're say, for a longer period of time,
they haven't adapted to whatever James Domand's idiosyncrasies are around
the way that he interprets the game.

Speaker 4 (15:19):
Yeah, one hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (15:20):
All referees are different, whether it's North South or Australia
or New Zealand's and you're up.

Speaker 4 (15:25):
You have to adapt.

Speaker 3 (15:26):
And when you look at the actual stats from that game,
the Blues had more line breaks, more carries, more post
contact meters, so they dominated a lot of it. I
think the Crusaders put pressure on at the set piece.
The Blues weren't helped by some injuries to their props.
Ricky Ricky Tully actually had to go to LuSE head

(15:47):
at one point for at least one scrum when they
were penalized, so that saw them pinned on their own line.
Then James Lay came back and sort of shored up
that area but yeah, look the Blues.

Speaker 4 (16:03):
You felt.

Speaker 3 (16:03):
I almost felt like they were going to steal out
of the death as you mentioned forty phases just and
that was while host Constitute is in the bin, so
they had no right to really be in that position.
They'd been on the rack. You know, I'm writting up
that game. I'm like, shit, I'm gonna have to rewrite
this whole thing. They're going to do it again that

(16:24):
having done it the week before. The eighty fourth minutes,
but it pops out the back of the rock Christian
Leo where he springs over and dives on the ball.
Another fantastic performance from him, and the Crusaders get out
of jail to a degree silvery shushes the crowds. And
one thing I will say is I love the social

(16:44):
media banter and even the Crusaders getting into it with
I can't remember the exact nature of their post. But
and that off field stuff is actually spilling over on
the field because there was some real tension, some real heat,
a few flare ups, and that all adds to the
to the atmosphere of it all, doesn't it.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
What is about rivalry and hard you know, and that's
what drives you know Premier League, it drives infol NBA, Nral.
Rivalries are key to it and we haven't had enough
of that. I don't think in super abian recent times
of teams not liking each other, whether it's in their
own heads, whether it's actual you know out in reality

(17:26):
that they do not get on as people or teams
as by the bye. If it's a manufactured rivalry, you
can sometimes sniff it, but it feels like there's some
real tension out on the park between those two teams,
and the more of that the better. And for the Blues,
you know, it's another game. I think it's twenty odd
years really since they've beaten the Crusaders in a game
that actually matters, actually matters. And yeah they haven't didn't

(17:49):
meet for in the playoffs for a number of years,
but think back to three at Eden Park. They've been
in the regular season when it's come to the crunch,
they have not been able to get the better of
them at home or away.

Speaker 4 (18:00):
We have been last year.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Well, they're lost in the regular season, but in a
game like a knockout game that matters, the Crusades have
risen to the occasional every time. And I think that's
we'll live in the crawl for the Blues is that, Yes,
they won the title in twenty twenty four, but the
Crusaders went at their best. This is their old rivals,
the old foes, and they would know that the Crusaders
went at the best. They didn't have to beat them
on the way to the title in the playoffs.

Speaker 4 (18:23):
Yeah, it's fair.

Speaker 3 (18:24):
And the Crusaders i think have won the last four
yep as well, so beaten them twice this year and
must have beaten them at least as you mentioned once
last year. So yeah, even when the Blues were at
their dominant best last year, the Crusaders still had their number.

Speaker 4 (18:41):
And but that's not the case of the Chiefs like that.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
It's not, No, it's not and that will probably almost
hurt the Blues. And A Robot's in the Herald on
Friday is that over the last ten to fifteen years,
it's probably the Chiefs have been the Crusader's chief rival.

Speaker 4 (18:58):
The greatest rival. Yes, because they beat them.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
Yeah, because they beat them. The Blues that you know,
got that Auckland Canterbury rivalry of old. But really it's
the Crusaders who have been tested the most by the
Chiefs over that period.

Speaker 3 (19:09):
Of time and that probably goes back to the Dave
Renni era as well, where there was genuine animosity there
and again that that stems from the chief success. And
you talked about that twenty twenty three final in Hamilton
that and I think there was the Super Rugby Autro Final.

(19:29):
Was that in Christian Yeah twenty one, Yeah, the Crusaders
won that McKenzie scored early, another type game. But twenty
twenty three is when you talk about those the Chiefs finals,
that they're blonde, that stands out, doesn't it. Well, not
last year when they were white. The Blues absolutely blew
them away that twenty twenty three final because.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
Well, our favorites for that it was the last days
of the Crusaders didn't see everyone was moving on. Scott
Robinson was moving on, Richie Wong was moving on and
they hadn't.

Speaker 4 (19:57):
Played Sam Whitelotte came back from the Achilles, It's right.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
And the Crusaders hadn't played their best periods that year
and it felt like it was I think we talked
about on the podcast at the time, it felt like
they were teetering a little bit. But they knew their
way to the finish line when it mattered one last time,
and that's the one that will hurt the Chiefs the
most out of this run, depending if they get across
the line preps on the weekend, but they will feel

(20:21):
that that was one that definitely got out of way
of the last last few.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
In all those little matches or moments in time build
the narrative for this week, don't they. And that twenty
twenty three finals swung on the line outs that I
can't remember who scored it, but McKenzie was ruled to
be offside. Yeah, and they score that try. I think
the Chief's gone to win that match, but yeah, I

(20:46):
think he moved before the.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Line something of the Crusaders had mentioned to Ben O'Keeffe previously,
and they got the message down to check it and
sure enough he was offside. And then the Chiefs gave
way some silly penalties in the last ten to fifteen minutes.
I think Sam Kaine got yellow carter for going in
from the side, and you know, the Crusaders just knew
their way to the finish line.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
Yeah, Well, we do it all again on Saturday nights.
So there's so many different battlegrounds within this as well,
isn't there when you look at you know, it's not
just Clay McMillan, but Shawn Stevenson. Moving on, Rob Penny's
probably done enough to bank at least a one year extension.
You'd think he wants it, But if you bank a title,

(21:31):
well then your cases potentially to stay there longer if.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
He wants to. Yeah, I mean it's been interesting that
he and the Crusader's staff, you know, Colem Mansbridge CEO,
parked it until after the season and have a really
good an idea of what Rob Penny wants to do
long term. He sort of mentioned initially when he came
in that maybe it was an interim deal. That's changed
now with Tomody arsen Ow full member of the All
Black staff, because he was very much seen as the
your apparents taking it over. So if he wants it,

(21:58):
he's probably going to start at to stick around for
a bit longer, I would suggest.

Speaker 4 (22:01):
Yeah, And there's no obvious next cab off the rink
right now?

Speaker 3 (22:05):
Is there? Maybe Brad More, maybe a a Ross Philipo
type character. But look, given what the Crusaders have done
this year, the way they've bounced back the lessons I've learned,
it'd be very hard to.

Speaker 4 (22:22):
Push them out the door.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
You don't make it, you don't make a final way
acident in super rugby, the number of weeks that you
have to go through. We will give our tips on
that shortly. But I think this has the potential to
be a classic final. I think the Chiefs who goes
on his favorites.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
Oh, Crusaders absolutely home advantage, Yeah, thirty one to zero,
twenty seven years since they lost the playoff game in
christ Church and they absolutely start favorites. But yeah, the
Chiefs for me, have the stronger roster, and I think
they have the ability to play more rugby as well.

(22:58):
That's a wee bit more higher risk, but I think
they have more points in them and you know the
way the Crusaders are going to play, and I think
there is the Chiefs have more variety to their game.
So I think it swings on home advantage. If this
was in Hamilton, the Chiefs would be favorites.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
Yeah, I think it's gonna be tight final. I really do.
I agree that the Chiefs have probably been that will
definitely been the better team across the course of the season.
But the Crusaders with that ability to play knockout footy
and put the squeeze on teams. It's a coin flip
game for me honestly, with probably as you say, Crusaders
just slightly in front and let's hope the final lives
up to that occasion. Live on Gold Sport and iHeartRadio,

(23:38):
Nick Buley, John Haggitt and Craig Kerr will have the
call for that one seven and five on Saturday night.
You can fid as I said, live on gold Sport
or your iHeart Radio will take a break, come back.
We've got some All Black squads to pick after this.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.

Speaker 2 (23:57):
Every try try tends sixty take every tackle, tackle, get
up again? We all I take him afore ave times.

Speaker 4 (24:05):
It's Rugby Direct Talks.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
You're back with Rugby Direct. Time now for our Final four.
And the first topic in the Final four is it's
going to be a long one because it's time to
pick out All Black squads Liam to play France in
the three Test series. It's going to be announced next Monday,
two days after the Super Rugby Final by chairm and
David Kirk. We sent you some homework. I did the same.

(24:34):
How have you gone about slicking your square before we
get into it.

Speaker 3 (24:39):
Well, it's interesting, isn't it, Because I think injuries are
going to play a part where if we talk about
offer toing a fussy. He's had neck surgery, not expected
to be available for July. I've heard that he will
be back this year for the All Blacks, and I
know they value him. He played a big role with
his experience off the bench last year, so expect him

(25:00):
to come back into the picture later in the air.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
But he was wearing one of the old Brent Todd
Nick braces who was that Blues training maybe a month
or so ago. Yeah, so hopefully he's back on the park.
He was optimistic at that point.

Speaker 3 (25:11):
It's mighty Williams. Sounds like he's probably out for the
July series as well.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
So Rock Penny interesting postgame on on Friday Nights, just
that he wasn't all out of the final just yet.
So maybe there's a Sam white Lock type resurrection the
old tree leaves, perhaps in some good Greek food or something.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
You know.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
Get down to Costas and Dmitries, did we so lucky? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (25:40):
Anything, I suspect that's mine games from what I've did,
so look that sounds like to to you, Lucia, props
gone if we go through further injuries, Antonine A.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
Brown? What was that?

Speaker 3 (25:54):
There was Colarbonel So I think he's touch and go.
Maybe they name him with a view to a third test.
Maybe maybe maybe you don't not too sure, you know
the major.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
Sam Doury's been out for also Bagby with that shoulder injury.
I noted down Simon Parker, a player we touched on
earlier in the podcast, as one of mine not considered
due to injury because I think he's been in a
very good form this year and worthy of consideration at
the very least. And that lot name I had. I'm
missing some others as Kennina holder As are not considered
because the way that he was finding form before he

(26:29):
took that injury would have been worthy of at least
consideration in their outside bag mix.

Speaker 3 (26:33):
Yeah, I've heard whispers that Peter Lucky might be carrying
an injury. And the other one is Mark Tala of
course incumbent all black swing hidden off shore. So yeah,
interesting to see where that goes.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
But I picked thirty five names I went with a
twenty to fifteen split. How do you solve it?

Speaker 4 (26:56):
Yeah, I'm not sure. I quite got to thirty five.

Speaker 3 (26:58):
A few whispers about the flexibility around that squad where
they actually named thirty five. We saw last July that
the All Blacks used all of their squad members in
two tests against England and Fiji. Obviously a lot of
changes for the third Test against Fiji. Interesting dynamic this
time with France potentially bringing out some squad, some frontline

(27:20):
players from their top fourteen final potentially for that third test,
so you would expect that to be a tougher test,
much tougher test than what Fiji would be. If we
goes to playing, you'd expect Gilbecks to be up to Neil,
maybe make some changes for the third So interesting dynamic there.
But I think they will have the same selection philosophy,

(27:41):
wanting to use all the players they named for July
throughout this series. So I think there is some flexibility
about where they nam thirty five, thirty four, whatever it is.

Speaker 4 (27:50):
But do you want to give us your squad? And
what I'll do is pick out the difference.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Is you want to go py position? Is it probably
easiest Okay, let's go with positions, so props. I've gone
Ethan de Grouz, Olie Norris and George Bauer, tight heads,
Fletch and Yule Troll, Lomax, Pussily or Tossy, noting that
to Mighty Williams is possibly out injured, otherwise Tomighty would
come in for George Bell.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
Yeah, I think it's a straight shootout between for the
tour and Norris. I agree, I would pick Norris. I
think they'll I think they'll go for the tour, you
reckon the I heard some whispers that Xavier nu Me
is the other one, and apparently he's been heavily penalized
compared to those guys and so breakby this year, so
I don't expect him to be in the mix. And

(28:41):
it sounds like from the stats I heard that that
for the tour's scrum percentage record and how many times
he's penalized reflects very well. So straight shootout I would
suggest between those two fors and Olie Norris with offer
and to Mighty missing.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
Would have been nice to see you have a bit
more of a game on on Friday night. Obviously got
yellow carded and didn't really see him up against Fletch
and Neuwele, because that would have been a good contest
if we've seen it for the duration, but ultimately ultimately not.
So that's our difference there. You've got for tour and locks,
four of them by hookers. Oh yeah, let's go hookers.

(29:18):
That's probably a good idea, isn't it. I think we're
on the same page there. But well more is the
question mark around that ankle injury. We haven't heard much
out of the Hurricanes camp.

Speaker 3 (29:27):
He's hamstring, wasn't it. Yeah, yeah, he pulled up lame
before that semi final was carted off in a midicab.

Speaker 4 (29:35):
So yeah, let's say he's in.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
I've included him in and I've gone Cody Taylor more
SEMASONI type. If he's not, George Bell comes in for
were fairly straightforward. I think they want sorry locks Scott Barrett, Tupo, VI,
Patrick Tybalt and debutant and Fabin Horned.

Speaker 3 (29:52):
Yeah, it'd be great to see him and the max
huge raps on the way he came into He obviously
played for the or Blacks fifteen, but joined the All
Blacks as a training partner. Yeah, injury cover at the
back end of last year on that you're being to
you'd when he came in.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
I think it was for the French Test in Paris.
Remember seeing him training there and you look across the
park He's like, this is a huge human. It's not
that any of the other blocks are small, but he
just stood out physically and seemed to be right in
the mix, assertive and exactly what you want to be.
You could hear his Dutch accent across the training park
when he was yelling, and you know, that's what you want.

(30:29):
He came in confident from what I saw in Paris
and Turin. So look, he's him playing some good rugby
this year. I think he's still got room to grow
as a rugby player. But with Sam Dowry out injured
and Josh Lord not just knocking enough rugby under the
belt to impress, I think you go, Fabian Hond.

Speaker 4 (30:49):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
It sounds like you did really come in and pick
up the line out calls be assertive. As you said,
a lot of rookies can come and be shy, take
a while to find their feet. I think it was
Sam Kine glowing in his praise for Holland, so I
think you bank on him been their next cab off
the rank I think would probably be KOI. I think
he's had a pretty good year for the Chiefs, But yeah,

(31:12):
I agree Fabian Holland, so.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
Pretty similar to thus far loose forward is going to
be an interesting area. I have got seven in a
squad of thirty five. Should I go all right, Ardie Savia,
I'll be surprised if you don't have him, Wallace Satiti,
Ethan Blacketdter, Luke Jacobson, Christian Leo, Willie du plus.

Speaker 4 (31:36):
Kaifi, Okay, yeah, I don't mind it.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
I think it's worth noting that Samon Parker would have
been very close to this because he is a big
lump of a lad. He's quite dynamic, probably you know,
still unrefined, but I think he would have been in
that conversation had it not been for that injury.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
He was all fifteen last year, clearly a player on
the radar.

Speaker 3 (32:02):
I think you've probably got enough number eight cover there.
When you look at severe cit t, blackheaded Jacobson, I
think they'll probably pick even though some Openia I agree
with you was a penalty magnet, and that is a
real concern because Scott Robinson is hot on discipline and

(32:24):
the semi the quarterfinal against the Blues that was not
a good match. For some opinion, I think he has
been below his best this year. I think they've invested
a lot in him and so probably more likely to
go him over Alio were but on form I agree
with you, So I've gone some Opennie the only other

(32:44):
one to consider there, Well, there's a few, isn't there
any number? So Tutu has performance at the weekend already
heard him. I don't know if he was really in
the frame conversation. No, Papali was the heir apparent at seven,
but I think Doe Carief is blowing him out of
the water this year. And Kriefe is not the biggest

(33:05):
guy and probably not as good from a ball carrying
perspective either. But turnovers it's incredibly hard to come by,
so valuable the all flexibility to strike off turnover position.
I think I think Scott Robertson will rarely value that.
Peter Luckeye is very much the future, but I think

(33:27):
had a quiet year hasn't kicked on from that performance
off the bench in Paris, played seventy eight odd minutes.

Speaker 4 (33:36):
I think you've replaced some of Penny.

Speaker 3 (33:38):
He was excellent that yeah, but hasn't come back and
continued that form, So I think that will hurt him
and potentially caring an injury as well. So yeah, I
think we're largely on the same page as the loose Wars.
That's easily the most contestable area is that there's going
to be some you think leaving Papalia.

Speaker 4 (33:55):
He's the guy that was groomed as far back as it.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
Was twenty eighteen. He got put in the mix. He
had a very good season for Auckland and was playing
some some incredible footing. I remember Alama at a beer
at the time. I remember asking him, you know, sort
of about him. He's like, well, you know, if my
mail is right, and clearly he knew he'd be on
the All Blacks. He'd be on the plane with the
All Blacks in the til Sure enough he was, and

(34:25):
you're right. The here apparent to sam Kin, but just
kind of has gone off the boil a little bit.
I think he was good for the Blues this year
buy and large, but sort of drifted out of the
All Blacks a little bit last year, didn't go on
the end of your tour through injury, and I don't
think he has been good enough this year to go, hey,
I'm back. Put me in that squad and maybe a

(34:45):
bit of NPC might be the best thing with an
eye to perhaps the end of your tour to get
him back into some real form.

Speaker 4 (34:53):
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how he takes some potential.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
If he does' miss up with mode completely wrong.

Speaker 3 (34:58):
Yeah, exactly. Let's say he does miss out. There's one
or two ways that can go right. He might see
the end of his contract and leave, or he might
dig in and say I'm going to make a real
crack of this.

Speaker 4 (35:09):
He's just about to become a father.

Speaker 3 (35:13):
I don't know whether the Blue style potentially has affected
his game, because it's fair to say that Vern Cotter's
arrival and that style of rugby hasn't brought ours best
for me. He is a guy that looks good when
he's in the wide channels, has a bit more room
to move when the Blues are playing a bit more expensively,
probably allows him to attack the breakdown a wee bit more.

(35:35):
He's very tight in his remit now and it was
last year where he really got usurped by the All
Blacks favoring Sam Kain's experience, and I think there was
a bit of grievance because do you remember the back
end of last year when him and Jacobsen and Blackhead

(35:57):
are injured and initially it was, oh, yeah, we're going
to bring one of them over when they get up
to speed. I think probably had a thumb injury or
something like that. I think that they were certainly populi
from what I can gather, was a bit miff that
that didn't transpire and actually got left behind and others
were given opportunities. So yeah, that you would have thought

(36:19):
that would put a chip on his shoulder. This year,
he's been good at times, but maybe that style of
rugby doesn't bring out his best.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
It's quite possible because it is. He was a key
part in that Leo McDonald era of the Blues, captain
for a full season with Patrick three Beloto away a
real leader, and yes, since Vnquad has come in, it
has felt like he hasn't been able to get to
his best. So I mean, certainly is the most contestable position.
You mentioned people secret for you had him as well,

(36:45):
didn't you. He we saw about penalty magnets with Sma
Penny Feene now he was a penalty magnet. His discipline
this year has been very, very good. He spected his
moments better, that's what you want. And Test rugby is
another step up in terms of that discipline, meaning to
be you know, right on the on the button.

Speaker 3 (37:02):
Yeah, and leaderships brought out the best in him. He
was co captain for the Hurricanes, but he was the
front man for the Keynes this year, very passionate, whereas
his hard on his sleeve and yeah, I just think
he's a point of difference. If you look at Blackheader,
Jacobson Populi, very similar players. Careefy does bring you that

(37:24):
genuine turnover exponent and I think that in Test rugby
is going to be incredibly valuable.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
Right, let's move on to the back line. I have
fifteen backs, three half backs, Royguard, Hotham Rutima.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
Yeah, yeah, I think Christy's probably your number four. But
the other one Preston purely almost purely because he can
kick off both feet and that's a real weapon. I
think defensively there's a few concerns about Preston, but yeah,

(37:57):
I think I don't think there's any disputing that those
will be the three half think it injury.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
It's going to be fascinating to see what happens. Do
you go back to a Finlay Christie who's been there,
done that, or do you look for another young half
becking top of Funaki don't know exactly what he's done
wrong at the Blues. You know he came in who's
playing some good rugby, became their first choice for a
period last season with Krista out. Every time he plays,

(38:21):
he gives that quick ball for me. He would be
if he was playing consistent rugby, he'd be right in
that number four mix. But he's just not.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
Yeah, limited chances I guess this year. As you mentioned,
he was the starting half back when the Blues won
the title last year and clearly he's been injured, but
they clearly lost a bit of faith in him. The
Kropper nines, there's what four or five there, but that

(38:51):
would be deemed to be ready now is actually quite limited.
I know the Hurricanes and others were scratching around to
potentially look for replacements, but there are some coming in
the form of pledgre Pleedger looks really promising at the Highlanders,
but a guy like that you'd think at least two
years off being in that sort of frame.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
Fucka Tava played some good rugby at times this year,
but I just I think the moment might have passed
for Fuckatava. Feels like he, as I said, was good distribution,
but he's still are prone Fuckatava, and I think what
you get out of Fakatava you probably get out of
a roy Guard and to a lesser extent to hope
them in terms of the way that they play. So

(39:31):
I just don't know that he provides enough to get
into an All Black Smax at the moment.

Speaker 3 (39:36):
Yeah, he's a guy that's got that experience, and he
has a point of difference. He's a bigger halfback, he's
got a real variety of passing game, lethal around the fringes.
But yeah, hasn't really been in this conversation, certainly from
the robertsonario and you have to go back to that
or was it twenty twenty two really when he played
the irs series, hasn't really been in the mixed sense.

Speaker 4 (40:01):
Injuries.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah, he has had injuries. Means eligible for Tonga from
July presumably, so whether he takes up that option will
still wants to play full Blacks. I know he's resigned
with New Zealand Rugby and apparently has had some good
conversations about where he's headed. So maybe his time will
come again, but doesn't feel like it's probably going to
be this year. First five's Boden Barrett, Damien McKenzie, Ruben Love.

(40:26):
I've included him in his first five.

Speaker 3 (40:28):
Yeah, I think you're right. It would be very hard
to select Stephen Parrient Pedifectter. He's still for me is
the next guy, but successive all Black regimes have largely
played him at fullback and had minimal faith in or
giving him chances as a ten, and he basically hasn't

(40:49):
played for the Blues this year because of a debilitating
calf injury. So I think he's still ahead of Love
in the first five picking order, but Love probably with
his versatility in a squad, whether it's wing, fallback, first five,
he will be there.

Speaker 4 (41:08):
It's just a matter of what he's considered as.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
For Paraphetter, you're right, just Tom on the park is
the issue, and he's almost one of those guys that
has been pigeonholed as a utility, even though he's been
a regular starter for the Blues. It feels like all
Blacks level has been pegged as a utility, and I
just don't know that it's ever going to happen for him,
to be honest, I think he's what twenty eight this year.

(41:34):
Ribben Love's five years younger than him. Time's probably not
on Pedifiti's side anymore in terms of being inexperienced player
at his age. Do you go with a younger player
who is also an experience and get more out of
them over a longer period of time.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
The other thing I'd say is Zee Black's a one
injury away from serious concerns at ten because the next
crop attends the gap between McKenzie and Barrett and the
rest is significant.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
Okay, so both of those players are injured, who do
you start a chest it ten? Is it rubenin Love?
Is it Stephen Fetter as Josh Sha.

Speaker 4 (42:12):
It's Peter Fetter for me?

Speaker 3 (42:13):
But wow, like, yeah, even if you lose, you lose
one of Barrett and McKenzie, and it really does shine
a spotlight on the next crop of tens in New
Zealand's and you don't have to look at like, yeah,
Jacob is promising. I don't think he's had the opportunities
or kicked on as people would have hoped this year.

Speaker 4 (42:35):
The Hrland is scratching around for tens.

Speaker 3 (42:37):
The Hurricanes head issues this year because of you know,
the stockpiled nature that the Crusaders have stuck with some
young guys. But they're certainly not in the test conversation.
So depth of ten New Zealand is not in a
great healthy state. And I think when you look at
the balance of the squad Ten and Locke to a

(42:59):
degree where the real focus from a depth point of
view should be.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
Okay, So I assume you had the same group of tens.
He didn't have a Yeah, I did have Love but
bracketed with Peter Fetter. But yes, not in a great
space midfield wise, I have five names Jordy Barrettrico, Juannie,
Billy Proctor, David Harvelli, Quinn to Pie.

Speaker 4 (43:23):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 3 (43:25):
I guess it swings on until Lenna Brown yep available,
So yeah, yeah, And whether they take five is probably
a question. I think four is enough, but because you've
effectively got three second five's there and two and two centers.

(43:45):
If it's four, I would take to pire but I
think they will take heavily.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
Yeah, yeah, I mean this is I've named thirty five
names and they may not go that that far. Outside
backs Caleb Clark, despite not scoring a single try during
Super Rugby, which is, when's the last time a starting
wing would have not had to try for an all
blacks for you know, an all blacks wing in a

(44:11):
super routine not was tryph you know, playing that sort
of rugby anyway.

Speaker 3 (44:16):
Probably it does speak to the Blue style to a degree.
But yeah, I mean Mark de Liz caut a few
Cole Forbes, others.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
Yeah, is it a Yeah, it's hard to figure out
whether it's just a weird statistical quirk or whether it's
something to be concerned about.

Speaker 3 (44:34):
The one thing about Caleb great in the air, great
with ball in hands. At times I feel like he
he goes looking for contact rather than running around people,
but he also has a week brain explosion in him
at times. It was the quick line out in Hamilton,
it was real, one real dusty pass to Boden Bearra

(44:55):
at the weekend that went beyond him. So he just
needs to minimize or reader's game of those instances because
they can be incredibly costly if they go wrong.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
He has resigned with New Zealand Rugby as well. Last
week's it puts to be the rabbit oz chat for
another couple of years. I think it was a whisper
going around. He's going to wide up Pacifica. So he's
resigned with the Blues for a couple more years. My
others in the back three will Jordan No, Ammoni Nadawa
and Leroy Carter No No Severus. Well, I toss this

(45:31):
up yesterday as I was writing these down, and I
think for the here and now, Sivrees has had a
pretty good Super Rugby season. I think for the Crusaders
obviously broke the record for most tries, but I think
with a night towards twenty twenty seven, I'm not sure
that he can get that distance, get to that distance.

(45:52):
So I'm going Leroy Carter ahead him. I like it.

Speaker 3 (45:55):
I don't think that's the way they'll go. I think
the Razors showed a lot of faith in Sevu last year,
way too much. And he was exposed at times in
the French Test for his pace and he's a wee
here brainers time at times as I was. And he
goes He's like a fly in a wine bottle. You

(46:16):
never know quite what he's going to do, and sometimes
it works, sometimes it doesn't. There was a tap back
instance in the South African game, which proves costly.

Speaker 4 (46:26):
I mean, these are little instances, but I.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
Think he's improved under the high ball big time. That's
been noticeable in Super Ragy this year. He's worked on that.

Speaker 4 (46:34):
He's good over the ball.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
Yeah, And for me, I don't think he's had a
bad SUPERB. I think he's had a good Super Ravy season.
But someone had to be squeezed out of that for
and he was down for a second, but I yeah,
changed it. Who are your our sobacks?

Speaker 3 (46:47):
I had rece just because I think they will pick him,
and I've got Lee Ricarda, so I didn't select him
on in an hour, but I would like to see
hit a Rees. I just want to touch on Lea Riccarda.
He's a guy that has just taken this competition by
storm this year, and some of it's in ways that
you wouldn't necessarily notice. So defensively, he is brave. He

(47:12):
is you know, tackles low. Very few people get past them,
and I think that comes from the seventh scene because
there's so much less space you have to make your tackles.
If you don't, you get you know, it's glaringly obvious.
And the other thing he brings which we don't have
a lot of, surprisingly and new Zello Rabia's out and
outpace and you look at the French wing who came

(47:35):
from SEVENS as well, and the real point of difference
dynamic pace that he brings.

Speaker 4 (47:48):
Our wings generally aren't that rapid.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
No, they're not. No. It's one of the weird things
when Will Jordan's a fast player, but he's not out
and out pace. He usually beats you before you know
he's gone. And that's the trick with Will Jordan, how
good he is that you can see things happening before
it's actually happened. Lero Kara does bring out and it
reminds me a lot of Australian style of wing Corey
tool almost you know, smaller but punchier. We don't tend

(48:15):
to produce a lot of those players and I think
his SEVENS background has helped big time in that regard.

Speaker 3 (48:20):
Yeah, and I think there will be elements of his
game that will be really tested, you know, under the
high ball. How does he go with a barrage of
big South Africans bearing down on him, you know, just
high hoists all day. Test rugby can be very different
to Super rugby.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
But it looks something like Cheoslan Colby and how you know,
maybe felt like he might have been prepared too small
for Test rugby, but boy, he's been one of those
players Test rugby for years now.

Speaker 3 (48:46):
Yeah, and I think wings you pick on form part
you can have an element of faith, sure, but there
has to be a place in the game for smaller
players and particularly on the edge. So yeah, I think
Lea Ricarter is a great show. I'd love to see
him included.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
So our squad was relatively similar. Couple of differences here
and there, But for me, I mean, how many debutants
that I pick one and one prop one, two, three
Holland or five Leo, Willie Kreifi, Holland, Norris and Leroy Carter.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
Yes, I didn't have Leo Weddis, So I think we've
got I had four. Gil Black said ten rookies last year,
and I think we are going to see that titan
four or five. I'd say it's probably at the upper end.
There will be a bigger squad for the end of
their tour. But the closer you get to the World Cup,

(49:41):
the more it's going to be about building cohesion combinations.
There will be room for the odd person breaking in,
but you certainly at the start of a cycle have
a lot more room to expand your squads bring through
fresh players than you do closer to that pinnacle tournament.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
Yeah, and I would also say that I don't know
that enough players outside of the All Blacksmiths have put
their hands up regularly enough this year to warrant selection.
I mean the ones we've named there that I you have,
But there's a lot of pecking stick with this squad,
and I think there's players certainly around the traps that
you know, maybe could have been in the All Blacks

(50:20):
if they put together more consistent performances. I think of
a tough Tather Nahwai. His name was mentioned at the
start of the year. He was good for periods, but
wasn't consistent enough. Yeah. I know people like the vat
Can Jackal, but I don't think he does his core
skills any better than the midfielders that we've selected. I've
selected and you're selected there today there's been others as well,
but I think there probably hasn't been enough names knocking

(50:42):
down the door of Scott Robson and co. To justify
pushing out some of those more experienced players that maybe
didn't have the best of twenty twenty fours.

Speaker 4 (50:50):
Yeah, and two other points.

Speaker 3 (50:53):
If you listen to the consistent messages coming out of
the All Blacks, it's that they felt like they created
more than everyone else last year and they didn't finish.
So that's where it comes back to your pick and
stick and just refining a lot of those finishing moments
the players that they already have. And there's also a
number of players in a thirty four to thirty five

(51:15):
man squad that didn't see enough time last year that
were in the squad last year, Billy Procter prime example.
So giving those guys perhaps more opportunities, you can have
changes within your starting team, not necessarily within your squad.
So I don't think we'll see a spate of rookies,
certainly not ten this year, right those are.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
At All Black squads. The real thing will be announced
midday Monday, the twenty third of June. You can follow
that on inzi Herol dot cot inzed Or on gold Sport,
newstalksb and iHeartRadio Time Awter the rest of the final
four Totic number two Olie Mathis. This is an interesting situation.
A player that our listeners I'm sure will be aware
of most recently been playing for the New Zealand Sevens.

(51:58):
Played NPC for Wakato last year. A hugely promising player.
His ability to play on the wing and also in
flink maybe off the cheers on overtime. Maybe what didn't
get a Super Raby contract this year obviously went down
the sevens path. He's been popping up playing club rugby
in Christch. I know he's played a few games of
high school boys at flanker, blindside, open side and on

(52:21):
the wing. Is a player of interest Liam, what's going on? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (52:28):
Age grade star Oli Methos.

Speaker 3 (52:30):
I think he scored four tries in one game maybe
against Ossie and yeah the schools on the twenties, something
like that. So a player of real interest and promise
is wa Wakato born and Breds. But sounds like classic
case of shady crusaders dealings here earlier you told.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
Me the story off here. Just sounds like a professional
rugby environment.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
Yees, so well, the story goes apparently the Chiefs requested
to bring him into their their squad this year as
as injury cover and they got denied, and the Crusaders
did the same request and it was approved. And I've
heard that they overlooked an under twenties flanker from Tasman

(53:15):
to do that. So Oli Mathis has been training with
the Crusaders this year and I'm sure they've got Scott
Barrett and Is here and whoever else sold him the
dream of playing for the Crusaders. Obviously the Chiefs want
to keep him homegrown talent, so I've heard the Chiefs
are very aggrieved about the process, but clearly there's a
fight for his future. So interesting to see where that

(53:40):
ends up, because he is someone that's in demand.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
He certainly is, and the ability to play multiple positions,
I mean obviously going off with the New Zealand under
twenties in a few weeks to their World championship. So
this is probably something that's going to be sorted in
the coming months as to where he ends up for
twenty twenty six and beyond. I'm sure the Crusaders are interested,
I mean from their perspective. Ethan Blackadder hasn't resigned beyond

(54:04):
this year as yet, Tom Christi is perhaps coming towards
the close of his career. I know they've got a
promising player now, whether it was when you mentioned or not,
was Johnny Lee. He's been in the other he was
injured as well, so maybe that's allowed Methods to come
in at that point because I know the Crusaders were
listing him as an injured player, so maybe that was
part of it. Is if we list him as an

(54:24):
injured player, we might be able to get Methis down.
So yeah, watch the Space I guess. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:30):
I think it's worth noting that it's not uncommon for
someone to Sam Darry play for Canterbury and the Blues. Yeah,
so in a modern professional world this is not unprecedented.
But clearly the Chiefs the desperate to keep them and
the Crusader's doing all they can to lure them.

Speaker 4 (54:46):
So an interesting fight for his future.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
It was mentioned to me that he's obviously very loyal
to Wakato, but whether that extends to the Chiefs I'm
not sure, but I think he's a Moodler man through
and through. So watch the Space top at number three.
You're busy over the weekend Liam catching up on the
European finals. What did you make of it?

Speaker 4 (55:04):
Oh, it's plenty happening.

Speaker 3 (55:05):
Bath won the Premiership title, their first title and I
think it was ninety ninety six.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
So yeah, the prem for next season. You see that
brand rebrandship well, Galliga Premiership to the Preme.

Speaker 3 (55:19):
Well, don't get too creative, yes and yeah, big celebrations
in Bath. They had an impromptu one in the car
parket Twickers and then a bus parades and Bath and
then across the channel Leinster broke their title droughts. I
think was it four years?

Speaker 2 (55:41):
Someone longer than you think.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
Yeah, which is staggering really for the the incredible depth
of their roster. So Jordi Barrett will return home as
a u RC champion. Scored a brilliant tries a chip
over the top from the half back. Jordi Barrack comes
flying through and then puts a bit of a fly
kick in, chases the ball down and scored. So if
you haven't seen that, seek out the highlights. So I'm

(56:04):
sure Jordie tucked into a few Guinness and signed off
his time in Ireland before joining us in Coastal for
the All Black squad naming next week.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
Next week, Yeah, look forward to hearing from Jordian about
how is the time in the USC went. I must
have didn't see a lot of the USC throughout the season.
It's very hard to access here in New Zealand. I
know a lot of European rugby. Scribe has watched a
lot of Super Rugby, but the same just Nott applying reverse.
I'm afraid tough to say. Yeah, I'm sure it's a
good comp As always, the USC taking along nicely And

(56:34):
this is a story you broke on Friday. Brine Evans
Topic four and the final four. Brane Evens, former two
Tests All Black slock and owned nine has joined the
All Blacks coaching staff as line out coach for this year.

Speaker 3 (56:47):
Interesting development I think we've discussed and I was always
of the view that Jason Ryan's briefest forward coach, well,
there's too much, too broad when you think about the breakdown,
the line out, the scrum Kerry Cleans, there's so much
that goes into that, and not only most international teams,
most professional teams, Super Rugby or whatever it is have

(57:07):
multiple four coaches right scrum coach, line out coach, you
know the Blues, Greg Fek, Paul.

Speaker 4 (57:12):
Tito, it goes on.

Speaker 3 (57:14):
So it was always a bit bizarre to me that
the All Blacks had their coaching groups so heavily weighted
towards the backs, with Jason holland Scott Hansen, somebody Ellison
to a degree, they're all Backsdonald Liam McDonald was there,
so it does make sense that bringing in someone else.

(57:35):
I think it's a surprise. It's fair to say it's
Brent Evans. He's not the biggest name. He's only been
coaching for since twenty twenty three. He does have vast
experience in the Northern Hemisphere, played up there for twelve years,
and from what I can gather in conversations spoke to
Jason Ryan and web it to Scott Robertson, that's his

(57:59):
recall of lineouts. Apparently he can just talk about some
lineout from five years ago. So I think that that yeah,
very niche, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (58:10):
Yeah. I think right move for the All Blacks in
terms of appointing someone there, because there was a lot
to be on jas Ryan's plate for the season, and
I wonder whether it was a matter of waiting until
I found the right person rather than jumping in and
appointing someone until the end. Rhyme is going to look
after everything, and so clearly sounds like they found the

(58:30):
right guy.

Speaker 3 (58:31):
Yeah, the only thing I would say is wouldn't they
love to have Sam white Lock in their mix?

Speaker 2 (58:36):
Yep, yep. But from what I say, Sam Whitelock's sort
of inching towards beginning of coaching career. I think he's
doing some work in Argentina in the next week while
around some coaching camps over the year, very early days.
And no one's doubting that the class of Sam white
Lock and is the rugby ability. But it's also a

(58:57):
different matter coaching to being a great player versus a
great coach. And yeah, Sam white Locke called the All Blacks,
lineouts and various things for a number of years. But
you know, Brene Evans was a two test All Black.
But doesn't mean it wasn't a great rugby mind. And
sometimes you've got players that are better rugby mines and
their bodies will actually allow them to be on the park.
You know, they can see everything happening, they can do it,
they just can't quite physically do it, so that may

(59:20):
be one of those cases here and Brilliants was a
very very good Super Rugby player, very good you know,
domestic player up north as well.

Speaker 3 (59:26):
Johnny sixth didn't waste any time mate, straight into island
the British and Irish Lions.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
Yeah, but what did Johnny sixthon actually win? It's one
for our all right, that's probably a good night to
move into the tipping and let's tip the Super Rugby Final,
last tip of the season. I lead by seven points.

Speaker 4 (59:46):
Is it all or nothing?

Speaker 2 (59:47):
It's not quit it sure fucking anything else? I lead
by seven points, fifty seven point five to fifty point five.
You picked the Blues Chiefs Final. I picked Crusaders Chiefs
Liam who will win Super Rugby?

Speaker 4 (01:00:00):
It's got two words for you, Elliott Chiefs Mina, I've.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
Got two words back for your crusade on out a
third Crusader on b I'm going to Crusaders. You're going
to cheat. I don't think there's anything I'm never any
doubt about that was there? No. I'll best luck and
your three two ones in the Rugby Direct MVP Middle
the weekend confirmed actually by the way that Artie Savia

(01:00:25):
is the winner of our MVP medal, the most important
MVP medal going around. He is going to be on
cloud nine. He can't, he will be. He can't be
overtaken now because Boden Barrett's one isn't playing the final
and well two isn't getting any points from me for
this week, so he can't make up the eleven point
gap over the couple of weeks. So congratulations Artie savi

(01:00:46):
a on twenty five from Boden Baron on fourteen. Hoskins
so two too on twelve. I don't think Hoskins is
going to get any points this week either somehow. But
my three two ones I'll go first. Will Jordan three,
Damian McKinzie two, Ethan Blackhead are one. I don't thinkre's
any explanation needed for any of those. They were the
standout players from those games.

Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
Yeah, no, fair enough, I'm going McKinsey three, Blackhead. I
think it didn't make twenty.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
Thirty or ten sackles thing was in the India and
I was going.

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
To give it to Heavily or Jordan, but I'm actually
going to give one to James Dolman just for helping
your crusaders to the final.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
No, I won't accept that down.

Speaker 4 (01:01:21):
All right, we'll go heavily.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
Then it's great news. Did you have a villion you're
All Black squad? You did?

Speaker 4 (01:01:27):
I didn't know. I went to play. Okay, Well, so
big big heads to hit this week.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
There's a consolation point there for you in the relationship.
I just try to find the number of tackles that
black Headed to make because it was a hell of
a shift. Thirty one thirty one Yeah at a rugby
union game. So it's a good one.

Speaker 4 (01:01:42):
Beaten and bloodied. What do you have four or five
stitches in his eye?

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
So yeah, beg effort, big old go for Ethan blackadded,
they'll do us for rugby Derick for another week through
to our friends that have it health techling, will your
aches and pains for sporting will be back next week.
It's going to be a busy old Monday for us
with the All Black Squad naming, also a super Rugby
final to wrap up as well, hopefully Monday on your feeds.
If not, then we'll be back with you on at

(01:02:06):
some point Tuesday to wrap up the All Black Squad
and a busy weekend of rugby.

Speaker 4 (01:02:10):
Yeah, look forward to that.

Speaker 3 (01:02:11):
Hopefully Smiley Barrett's should be an open Barret coast to
us to speak.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
What's the local drop down there? I was actually asking
Scott Robinson that the other day and we couldn't quite
place it. So have to teach us the way, Smiley
of what the tuna mucky local droppers look forward to that.

Speaker 4 (01:02:25):
Yeah, I can't imagine he's brought a beer in.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
Must be Yarrow's beer or something like that right there,
or do us? Thanks to last and bars English. As always,
we will catch you.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
Next week for more from News talks'd be listen live
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