June 30, 2025 • 40 mins
This week on Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier count down to the opening All Blacks test of 2025 against France in Dunedin and speculate on what a couple of injury withdrawals might mean for the make up of the first test side.
We also assess what to expect from France across the series and if you can really prepare for a side with so few international caps between them.
We also dig into the opening British and Irish Lions game, the Maori All Blacks big win over Japan and Moana Pasifika's funding woes and how that might affect their future in Super Rugby
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
Straight down the Middle of Dry dipny score by try these.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct
with Elliot Smith and Leam Napier, powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Very, powered by Habit Health, tackling all
your aches and pains from sports and work. Elliott Smith
with me Liam Napier, Back for another week of rugby
Snannigan's and covering everything else that's gone on in the
rugby globe this time. A week ago, Liam, we had
the All Black squads locked in thirty three names, and
inevitably we come back and reconvene a week later, and
(01:01):
the squad has changed somewhat. Wallace a Titi out first
and foremost that came out late last week and now
on the we record to Mighty Williams also out for
the French series with a torn at meniscus, so a
couple of blows there from the All Blacks perspective. These
are both first choice players so in certainly ended that
last year as their first choice players in key positions.
(01:23):
So a bit of a blow for Scott Robertson.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Big setbacks Elliott. They were two of the All Black's
best performance last year. Wallas Titi was the All Black's
Player of the Year and World Rugby Breakthrough Player for
a good reason, the way he came on the test scene,
the impact he had and to Mighty Williams was a
big mover last year, went past Ethan de Grout on
that Northern tour and then this season really cemented that status.
(01:50):
He can play both sides of the scrum. He's a
destructive scrummager. He plays big minutes for a big man,
great ball in hands, scores from close range, great feet,
good hands. Really does it all for a modern day
prop so it does while it does a lot of
talking points and give others opportunities. We've got Christian Leo
(02:12):
ready coming into the full squad as well as George Bauer.
Those are two big setbacks Phil Blacks.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
They are as you mentioned, those players coming in there.
But it would tend to sugguce that Ethan de group
will start in Dunedin. Team will be named as per
on a Thursday afternoon, Thursday morning, late Thursday morning, Thursday
afternoon New Zealand. Ethan, the group should come in you
would think as starting prop. The loose Ford max is
very interesting because Luke Jacobson has been ruled out as
(02:39):
well this week, So how does that shake down for
this testing to need and your three starters and player
coming off the bench. To me, it's just is going
to be probably a couple of debutants, one starting, one
coming off the bench.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
It's going to be multiple debutantes across this all black team.
Because I agree Ethan, the group will come in and start,
and then you'll highly likely have Olie Norris coming off
the bench for his first cap, so it'll be a
big moment for him. You wouldn't imagine George Bauer, having
just been called in over the weekend, will come on
to the bench and it is a nice mix of
(03:13):
having an experienced play with the debutant there and the
loose forward mix.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
Yeah, really up for grabs.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Luke Jacobson, I think first and foremost it should be
questions about why and how he came back to finish
that game having passed his HIA and then been ruled
out mandatory twelve days standown.
Speaker 5 (03:34):
So he's out of this first test.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Well, it does present to question because his eyes were
like sources that night, and look, you can only trust
what information you were given, and if you were if
he's been passed to play through the ha protocols to
come back on the field, you know it's a fifteen
minute stand down, they have to go through a cognitive test.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Is past that.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Questions whether that test is rigorous enough, whether this or
just a one off, whether he was fine to pass
that test and then had spells afterwards. There's a little
bit up in the air as to what happened there.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Yeah, I think it's one those examples where if you,
I mean most people watching live, it looked like he
had been knocked unconscious and so he probably shouldn't have
even gone through the HIA protocols. He should have been
ruled out then and there I guess at least he's
been ruled out subsequently. But in that moment, I definitely
(04:29):
don't think he should have came back and finished that
game and losing him as another blow. Because of his versatility,
he can play six seven eights, and that's one of
the reasons he has been included in this squad. So
let's go to the balance of that loose forward trio,
and for me, it really comes down to where.
Speaker 5 (04:49):
Artie Severe plays.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Now.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
All indications were that Artie was going to move to
seven this year. The All Blacks were impressed by what
he did for Moana at seven. Wallace a Titi's preferred
position was eight. It was all set up for that
to happen. And now they're going to have to have
a rethink. Do they stick with Ardie seven or do
they just push that out a little bit and and
(05:14):
Plamer eight, where he has featured for the All Blacks
and the Hurricanes previously for what the best part of
two three years.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Well, I think we're down to a question of whether
you start Duplessy Kafi on deboo or whether you start
Christian Leo Willi on deboo' that's the option, and for me,
I almost think that having Artie back at seven would
be the preferred option.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
This week.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I like the balance probably a little bit better of
female Savia Christian Leo Willi than I would female Kadifi Savia.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
Well, female starts at six regardless.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
As Lockton's unless then move to po II or Scott
Barrett to start at six, which was sort of mentioned
last week by Scott Robertson that they could are going
to have a couple of locks that will cover blindside.
Now two of them can two of them probably can't
tap a lot in holand being the ones that can't.
Is that an option this week or do you just
(06:07):
go with the loose forwards that you've selected in the squad.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
I think it's it's a live option, but I think
it's probably something you look at in game or later
in the match, rather than a starting rather than getting
too cute. It's something that you go to, maybe out
of necessity if you had an injury later in the week.
We saw that previously with to provide starting at six
in the All Blacks lost to France at the World Cup.
(06:32):
But there is enough loose for cover in that All
Black squad, so I agree with you that it does
come down to where Ardi plays and whether they throw
Christianly aware straight in. I think they probably will. Personally,
I would put Arty to eight and give Duple C
the crack from the outset. I think he has earned it,
(06:55):
not that Weady hasn't, but Dup was firstly selected in
the squad. Leo Weirdy was injury cover, and I think
I would like to see grief he given an extended
crack at that seven jersey.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
It looks so would I to an extent.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I don't know that the hierarchy of your selected first
kind of matters though, because they didn't select enough loose Fords.
I don't think in the first place they went one short,
they could have.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Slipkepd at thirty five players they sent left themselves exposed
by yeah, selecting five and Ethan.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Black At, according to Scott Robinson speaking to Jason Pine
on his show yesterday, has a medical issues so not
available for selection currently. He would have been in contention
potentially to come in with that Satiti injury, at least
his injury cover, which is what Dalton Papaliti's role is
at the moment. But they've left themselves a little bit
(07:47):
short there, and maybe if Simon Parker was fit, they
might have also looked to blood him, but they have basically,
as I see it, two options this week. I think
you're going one way. I'm probably going the other. I
don't think there's a well they probably is a right
or wrong answer, but either way we're going to see
two new all Blacks in the loose Ford Mikes this weekend.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Well, it's a matter of whether Leah Whitt is on
the bench or Carefair, and I think whatever the case,
it is an exciting proposition, isn't it to see? The
loose forwards were always the most contentious element of the
squad from the outset. Now you've had it further injury setbacks.
Now there's going to be a couple of rookies thrust
into the mix, and it will be a bit of
(08:27):
an evolving picture as the seria goes on. But yeah,
as it stands, I'd leave Ardi at eight. I'll put
through Perceeed a seven and Summer Penny at six. But
there is less flexibility with your bench options as well
having those injuries, because you don't have a guy like
Ja Gibson, you don't have a guy likes tiqu both
(08:49):
of whom can play multiple positions.
Speaker 5 (08:51):
What about Leo Weady? Would you consider him as a six?
Speaker 3 (08:54):
I think he's played a bit of six before, hasn't
he for a Tigo? I'm not sure about the Crusaders.
Off the top of my head, I think there would
be the less than ideal scenario, and given you've got
also to provide in the twenty three, you would think
he could potentially cover that blind side, so I wouldn't
necessarily want to see him there at six. At test level,
(09:15):
he hasn't played a lot of it, but it's probably
if you had a couple of injuries, you could probably
slote in there.
Speaker 5 (09:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
So while there'll be a lot of focus on seven
and eight, whether it's Ardi Carrefi or Leo Werdi, this
series is really set up for female. Jacobson will return
and will likely get a crack, but female has not
convinced at test level. The All Blacks partly selected him
(09:42):
because they felt like he was really ready to go
before that French the loss to France and Paris last year,
and he got knocked down in the first minute or
so when luck I came on, Luckeye came on, and
so they've invested a lot in him and he hasn't
repaid that faith yet and he needs too soon.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Well, he's the prototype that they want, and in selecting
him of a black Adder, they've gone, this is the
kind kind of player that we want, a player that
gets over the game line, that has will post contact
meters than Blackadder is involved in that intangible of explosiveness.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
But he has that explosiveness a genue about him.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
Line out figure.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Exactly, but a threat with ball and hands and black
added simply isn't that he busted and put a number
of tackles in. We saw that in the super ruggy Plovs.
I think, what thirty against the Blues and another big
shifter against the Chiefs in the final. But that's not
what they're looking for at the moment. So they've gone
with the prototype. This is the body, this is the
kind of player that we want. Now they need the
(10:45):
player to match up. Will they get it in this
French series? They kind of have to. They've invested a
lot in them.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
They have and while this is a seconds very much
a second string French side, we are going to find
out about female because it will be a big French
pack that that's a non negotiables that's how they approach it.
The other big thing with female discipline. He had some
issues with the Chiefs this season. In the final series
(11:15):
he got pinged a couple of times. I think it
was against the Blue.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Well, he was awful in that Blue.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
His last the last twenty five minutes of the Blue
I think considered four or five penalties.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
And his penchant for hunting and smashing first fives is great,
but he very much borders on the line of the
law with tackle heights and timing. So he needs to
get that discipline right because there's a real bugbear of
Scott Robertson as well, and it can cost you test matchic.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
It can and it's not definitely ruled it test well.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
It is definitely ruled at Test level, but that's something
they watched for at Test level a lot more than
maybe at Super rugby level. The margins are so thin.
You give something that's going to be flagged up to
the TMO, that's red rag to a bull. The TMO
loves getting involved, they love getting their paycheck out. You
can't do that at Test level. So he's going to
have to be right on this week. Let's go through
the rest of the run on side then, because we've
talked about the loose fords the front row nowree Taylor Lomax,
(12:09):
is that perck itself? Yep, same with the locks. So
let's say Barrett and to provide yeah, okay, we'll skip
over the loose forwards regard and Barrett nine and ten.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Yeah, I don't think it's interesting, isn't it that there
seems to be a bit of a push to generate
debate about who starts at ten. For me, I don't
think there's really a question. I don't think there is
either that question was answered.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
I know Mackenzie had a great testing in Siland last year,
but if you look at where they ended the year,
they ended with Boten Bart as their first choice ten.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
And what happened in Super Agbi.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
There was Mackenzie his moments this season, and I think
he's a more dynamic attacking prospect. Yeah, he really can
spark a team, but there were some big question marks
and big games towards the end of the season about
his ability to imprint himself on the game or game
(13:09):
manage that that sort of tag still hangs over his head,
doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
It does wings, Caleb Clark, Sevy Reese. That's probably where
I'm looking at.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
I think so, and I think that we obviously will
see change there, and I think we will see whether
it's in a starting or positional shift later in a match.
Guys like Riquowhani will play spend time on the wing,
and Ruben Love. I think we will see those guys
feature there, but I think for a first test all
(13:41):
Blacks teams generally pretty scratchy to start the year. You're
bringing different super rugby teams together. Last year, with the
All Blacks so much change with a complete coaching overhaul,
the All Blacks were guilty of overloading and they really
struggled to come together for the first two weeks against England.
So I think what we'll see the general theme will
(14:02):
be cohesion and established combinations, and then you'll see some
changes throughout the series.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Fall back and then Barrett Jordy that is, and Yuanni
and midfield. There's been a few whispers around that maybe
Procter might be the guy to start this week. I
guess we'll find out Thursday. Would that surprise you whispers?
Speaker 4 (14:22):
I mean nothing to back it up. You know, people
throw things out and it wouldn't surprise me because Jordie
and Billy have an established combination. But it would surprise
me because it's the first test of the year. I
think the penny has dropped with the All Blacks that
they need to invest in Procter, give them more game time.
Didn't use them in the Rugby Championship last year. That
(14:45):
was a massive oversight, and so we will see him
start at thirteen in this series, but I do not
expect it to be this first test the bench Tokyojo.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
You would suspect Norris will come in tight head, reserved,
tight head, would think the loose forward that we talked
about a bit.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
Earlier McKenzie, and then maybe maybe a Proctor or a
Lenna Brown.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Yeah, with Lennet Brown's fit was the question, I suppose,
and Procton, who really covers center, doesn't give you a
lot of versatility and the outside backs, and that's probably
we got unstuck a little bit in terms of game
time last year, is that he can only cover that
one position. Interesting to see where they go.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Yeah, you're right, Lennard Brown does give you a lot
more versatility. I was thinking across that back line, you
don't really have another second five eight option. If Jeordie
went down, your had belly on the on the bench.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
So would it open the door for a top of
tab of Nawai potentially to come off the bench for
a debut.
Speaker 5 (15:50):
Not yet, I think maybe third test for a tub
of toab naha.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Okay, all right, A couple of other things just on
that obviously we mentioned to Mighty Williams out at the top.
This is becoming a wee bit of a tradition, all
Blacks players fighting through injury to play a Super Rugby
final then being out for an extended peer. You think
Sam Whitelocke in twenty twenty three against the Chiefs played
eighty minutes on I think it was leg injury again
(16:14):
and said Kelly's, Kelly's. He said to me after the
game that the Blacks coaches won't be happy. I don't
think they were having ready in Foster's book and talked
to him at the time about it. He missed I
think the first two tests of that World Cup year.
Patrick Toyp a lot too slightly different, was expected to
be out until midway through the All Blacks July series,
came back early, played in July, but then was ruled
(16:35):
out with a calf injury a bit later on. They
excuse me, And now to mighty Williams with that knee
injury that when knew were back quarter finally played semi
final from Rey didn't finally played. Now he's out for
six to eight weeks. Acording to Scott Robertson, it's an
annual tradition.
Speaker 5 (16:51):
Now there's some real iron, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
That Scott Robinson's up today and he's been questioned about
whether to Mighty Williams should have played in the Super
ABI final and you can sense the anks there now
he's all Black coage, but the shoe was on the
other foot in a big way when he was lording
Sam Whitelock as a godlike immortal for playing eighty minutes
(17:14):
on Achilles. That's hanging on by a three in twenty
twenty three.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Yeah, it's funny how perspectives changed very very quickly given
that all Black's job. And you just do not want
to see players engine or push themselves in Super Rugby
beyond their limits.
Speaker 5 (17:27):
That's a right look.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
Scarbb has made the point that players want to play
and I can completely understand that if you have invested
yourself in a Super Rugby campaign, if you're on the
cusp and it's a one off game final, of course
you want to give everything you can to try and
win a championship for your team. But there is a
natural conflict that exists there where Tamaty Williams is now
(17:53):
unavailable for six to eight weeks, is to have surgery
on that knee, and maybe that wouldn't have been the case.
Maybe it would have healed without surgery. If he doesn't
play the final, the All Blacks have some depth there.
Sam Whitelock's absence wasn't terminal for the All Blacks, but
there's a question, I guess, of what takes priority, and
(18:14):
that there is a very real conflict that exists that
the All Blacks don't have jurisdiction to say you're not playing.
We should they but they would bloody well. I'd love to, yeah,
but I don't think they should. And you know, you're
got to play what's in front of you.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
You can only play if you want to play a
Super Rugby final and you think you're fit to play
and you can push yourself through it. Then I think
I've got no problem with them playing. And if that
comes at the expense of them missing the All Blacks,
then good. We've sat too long where the best players
aren't playing Super Rugby and I have kept themselves either
medically fresh for the season or you know, in terms
of reaching the bar of what they're capable of on
(18:48):
the park, you know, until later in the Super Rugby season.
I think it's good that we've got players putting Super
Rugby ahead of international rugby because for so long it's
been prioritized international rugby. Rest in rotation got to say
that games. I've got no issue with it.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
I agree, but I'll throw a question at you. Do
the Crusaders win that Super Rugby title if George Bauer
starts well.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
To Mighty Williams was a minse in that final.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Jorde Bow's a handy replacement and he's come obviously the
All Black squad, I think they probably still do. Fletcher
Neul was huge on the other side. It sounds like
he's good to go with spite also playing through an
injury on the other side of the scrums he had
two injured props.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Deal to the Chiefs on that night. They probably still wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
It'd be an interesting question to ask to Mighty as well,
would you do it again knowing that you will miss
at least three tests for the All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
And go back a couple of years. You know, Sam
Whitelocke that was his last Crusader's game that one.
Speaker 5 (19:45):
So he was important context.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
You know, it was a final and everything like that.
If it was a round fifteen game and they're out
of the playoffs. Probably doesn't play it. Yeah, it was
more the irony today totally. Yeah, And as I say,
I just read about that chapter in Ian Foster's book
where it was it was brought up and obviously his
frustrations as you would have as the All Blacks. Which
(20:09):
what do we expect from the French this week? It's
going to be interesting old week. I have seen a
lot of theories around their team. Sounds like they'll probably
be an average of about maybe a total of eighty
two caps in the pack is what I've heard, so
average about ten caps you know in the pack per player.
(20:30):
Gl Fku in the back line is probably going to
contribute about ninety five caps himself roughly off the top
of my head. There's some players that New Zealanders may
have heard of in passing and that have been here before,
all played the All Blacks prior.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
But it's a green French team, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Look let's not get away from the fact that this
is a second during French team and that's not disrespectful.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
That is fact.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Well, if the All Blacks had not seen players in
the Crusaders and Chiefs, you know into the series and
said I actually will come in for the second.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Then we would be saying the same thing.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
Yeahred percent. And it's just a few facts. I guess
that the average age of the squad, there's a thirty
eight man squad the French twenty five years. The average
number of caps is nine eighteen. Of the thirty man
squad almost half uncapped. Of players with eighteen caps or more,
(21:21):
there's only six of them, and so it's very green.
And that's not to say that the French haven't built depth,
that they don't have talents, that they don't have experience
winning in the Southern hemisphere, that they could not cause
an upset. But this is not the best of the best.
But it is interesting because the All Blacks are very
(21:44):
on edge about the narrative that this is a b
French team, that they're gonna have their backs to the wall,
they've got nothing to lose, and that's somehow the media
is sort of complicit in fueling that narrative and giving
them another arm to grow.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
So I think our colleagues at the breakdown last night
company the exact where they use was a disgraceful or
shambola around the lack of selection around that.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Do you subscribe to that?
Speaker 5 (22:15):
I think I think it's insulting to.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Use you to international rugby and and the the concept
that of nationalism of yeah, let's the reverse. So the
All Black scot front Paris last year and rolled out
a second string team. They get beaten, well beaten. That
damages their brands. But I think the other point is
(22:43):
this is nothing new for France. They have not not
invested in this test calendar in terms of the July
window for some time. It was the same when they
went to Argentina last year, and there is a clear
reason for that, and that's because their their top fourteen
runs so long. The clubs run their their game is
(23:05):
extremely well supported. You know the scenes from Toulouse, We've
been there. It's a passionate rugby town that takes priority
at this summer year. And so the five players from
that final are meant to be coming out later in
this series. But it is a great shame, isn't it.
(23:27):
It takes the wind out of the series. Yeah, the
game in d Eden's still sold out, so there's massive
interest in the All Blacks. But I think it doesn't
change the expectation that the All Blacks will be expected
to win three nil and win reasonably comfortably when the
All Blecks have lost their last three tests to Fronts
and twenty eighteen was the last time they beat them,
(23:49):
and that was in a similar window. It was June,
but it was the same sort of concept and they
won very comfortably. So that that's the sort of expectation
that's around the series and that's why Scott Robinson and
the All Blacks are nervous.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Yeah, it's a dangerous expectation to set when you're expected
to win, as the All Blacks are every time they
go in the park, but when it's the opposition that's
a little creaky. I guess there are issues around that.
This is a French thing that not a lot of
play people would know about. We know the big names
French Stop fourteen is not on TV here, we're not
exposed to it, so there is a real sense of
(24:24):
the unknown this week. But for the French it's a
chance to blood a lot of players. They've got tremendous
depth as it is, they's only going to grow two
years out from the World Cup.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Yeah, and there's also no more excuses for the All
Blacks like yes, coming into July, there are a wee
bit scratchy, But this is a coaching group that has
been together largely for the best part of a year.
They've developed a lot of these combinations well established. Now
they should be on the same page. They don't have to,
you know, it's not starting afresh like it was last
(24:53):
year's They've had the best part of six months to
review last year and absorb the lessons and map out
how they want to play their games. So I think
the expectation on the All Blacks is fully justified.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I think so too.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
All Blacks team around lunchtime on Thursday, the French naming
their team Wednesday nights. I believe you can follow it
on Inzi Herald, Doctor Inzy and all the lattice news
on News Talks inb as well. We'll take a break
here on Rugby Direct with Habit Health, then come back
with the second half after this.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fares.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Every try try and sixty second every tackle tackles.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Get up again.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Before I'm not it's Rugby Direct. You're back with Rugby Direct.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
I'm now for the final four four Rugby topics plenty
to get stuck into The Lions open the Ossie part
of their tour against the Western Force with a big
win fifty four points to seven. She was fairly comfortable
in the second spell. They just ran over the top
of a Force team they hadn't played in a few weeks.
We're missing a few people in the Wallabies about what
(26:04):
we probably expected out of that game.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
It is.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
Yeah, the Force were Australia's worst team and like you say,
missing their best players. So it's a tune up match
for the Lions. It's not their full strength team. And
I looked at some of the stats even in their
loss to the Pumas and that Lion's team they made
so many more line breakspak so many more defenders.
Speaker 5 (26:29):
So this is a really good Lions team, it is.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
I think I'd be worried about the miss tackle stat
from the weekend. I think it was and I don't
the numbers in front of me, but it was a
lot for a team that won fifty four points to
seven they missed. I think it was more than twenty tackles.
It was a fast game last game, yep. A lot
of fatigue at the back end, even of the first half.
Players are blowing a lot of kicking, a lot of running,
(26:58):
so I'm not overly surprised by that. But yeah, the
Lions tour is also a hectic schedule, now, isn't it.
They play the Reds mid week and then the Warratars
on the weekends and then you know, the first Test
in a couple of weeks. The Wallabies have a tune
up against Fiji, so it will be in an engrossing series.
(27:19):
But look, let's be honest, if you paint the picture
of this series, there's every expectation rightfully, so that line
should win three nil. The Wallabies have made great improvements
under Joe Schmitt, but they are still very much developing
into that where this is the best of the best
of Europe, France and Italy excluded. You know, Ireland's England's
(27:45):
Finn Russell's in great form. I think there's one or
two Welshmen have managed to crack the squad. Thomas Williams
might be on his way home, so I'm got anyone
left actually, But look, it is a very good lines team.
What do you think do you think they'll win three nil?
They're expected to, as you said, If the Wallabies don't
win the first Test in Brisbane. It will be three
(28:08):
nil because the lines will get better and better, and
we've seen that in recent tours I think, so if
you had to pin me down, I'd say they will
win three now all right, it's.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Two to one.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Topic number two in multi All Black surge and their
second spell against Japan fairly comfortable in the end. It
was a tight first spell, played in a bit of
heats over in Japan, but just ultimately too good the
Maldi All Blacks. For a team that only flew out
on the Wednesday Langdon into Tokyo that night and then
played on Saturday, not too bad in terms of the
score they ran up.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
I think they had a bit of unfinished business this team.
They lost one game out in Japan last time. Ecklam
mentioned that postmatch that sort of stuck in the kraps,
so I think that would have been part of their motivation.
And it's an interesting series, isn't it. You get the
feeling like I'm not. I don't want to undermine the
Maldi team because it does. It has steeped in history,
(29:04):
but from I don't know, it's not something you put
on a pedestal. If you think about the previous some
of the itineries that the Mouldi All Blacks have had
when they've played the Lions, played England, when they've come
out to tour New Zealand.
Speaker 5 (29:19):
New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
Raby has this memorandum of understanding of Japan and clearly
there's stipulations about how many games they have to play
each year over there, and it does feel like the
Mouldy All Blacks and the All Blacks fifteen a fulfilling
a lot of those commitments.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
It does, and I don't know whether that's the right
thing for the Moldy All Blacks to be treated that way,
but I also don't see a path to them getting
more games. You know, the test calendar is so congested
as it is. It really is only those times of
the year when you know the calendar when the Lions
(29:55):
are coming in and they can potentially play games against
them or these sort of series. You got Scotland obviously
in fang Ada over the weekend. It's going to be
second string Scotland. They're keeping their international team active while
the lines are going on. Those seem to be the
opportunities and even you know, I think that they obviously
played Ireland twenty twenty two in that series, which was great,
(30:19):
But for next year those go as well, those three
ties series, there will be any of those opportunities. So
it feels like it's been a little bit marginalized the
Muldi All Blacks. But also don't see where on the
calendar you could fit players in or fit a team
in and play regular international fixtures against top teams.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Yeah, it's bloody tough, isn't it to uphold the prestige
of that team because I've got vivid memories. I think
it was that John o' gibbs who led the muldy
All Blacks to victory of the Lions, and just the
emotion and the scenes and the passion and the pride
around those sort of results.
Speaker 5 (30:57):
I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
Did they beat England down in New Zealand as well? Yep,
so some massive results, you know, And wouldn't it be
great to see them play the spring Box or the Wallabies,
But that's but fanciful in the current climate. So it's
important to maintain that team. But the context and the
relevance of going to Japan and playing a couple of
(31:20):
one off games, it doesn't necessarily wit the appetite.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
You'll be interesting to see in twenty thirty when the
Sutifrakan too comes here whether there is an opportunity to
play the Moldy All Blacks, so whether it's you know,
only the Super Rugby teams, that'll be fascinating, but it's
hard to see them getting much of an increase program
to this point.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Topic number three.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
We touched on this a little bit last week when
we did our Super Rugby Final rap and also the
All Black squad. But chance now to just rate CLAYD
mcmillon's tenure. I think he's off this week to begin
a new life in Munster. How would you write his
time in charge of the Chiefs also the Mouldi All
Blacks as well. He's been a plenty. He's been pretty
good servants in New Zealand rugby and I'm sure it
would be more to come.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
Yeah, All Blacks fifteen as well. So very much in
that high performance on the cusp of the All Blacks
five year, ten year with the Chiefs. I think in
the cold lighted day in the media aftermath of losing
a fourth final and how disappointing that is for those
in Chiefs country, it's easy to forget where he started
(32:22):
coming in as an interim coach Warren Gatlin going to
coach the Lions in South Africa was only ever meant
to be a six month tenure and the Chiefs were
in a real bad place. They went on to match
their worst ever losing streaker. I think it was eleven
matches with McMillan. I think he presided over two of
(32:45):
those and then really turned it around. And he did
that by drilling down into their culture, by getting by in.
He promoted a lot of players to the All Blacks
in that time as well, and brought through a number
of different coaches.
Speaker 5 (33:03):
I'd give him eight out of ten.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
I think those finals there's clearly something that he would
reflect on and something he would maybe missing in the
tool belt. The inability to get over that hump, that
mental hurd or whatever it is to not deliver a
championship having been that their most consistent team in the
(33:24):
last three years will great him. But I really hope
he goes to Monster and has a real impact at
a club that will have big expectations but has a
similar sort of investment in the pride and their history
and all those sorts of things. And been exposed to
different styles and players I think will only benefit him.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Yeah, I think it will too.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
I'll go to give him seven and a half out
of ten, probably doctor point till half a point for
those lost finals. But he's been great for the Chiefs,
has instilled a real culture in them that had probably
been missing since the day of Rainy Days and Wayne
Smith that sort of was there, but then it's sort
of unraveled and they've been closed. But he got them
back to the you know, the top table in terms
(34:10):
of New Zealand Super Rugby sides. And yeah, that final defeat,
four of them will stick with them, and the fact
that they all lost in different ways. It wasn't just
one thing that can signed them to defeat. That was
probably an easy fix twenty twenty one in Super Abiot
or twenty three in the Super Rugby final against the Crusaders.
(34:31):
You know they didn't concede a point when they had
fifteen players in the park and said at all their
points while they were down to fourteen men, got blown
up by the Blues last year, lost and arm wrestled
against the Crusaders. So in a weird way, he's lost
in different ways and that might actually gnaw at him
a little bit more that it's not one thing, easy
fix sort of scenario. It's been a number of things.
But he's a very good coach and I think promising
(34:51):
in the New Zealand set up. If we look at
a World Cup cycle away or maybe two from here
on inwards, I'm sure he's going to be back in
All Blacks contention, especially if his monster tenure goes well.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
Yeah, and interesting just to watch that from a five.
Rob Penny spent two years I think at a Munster.
Dave Rennie went to Glasgow, Scott Robin not Scott Robertson,
Todd Blackhead.
Speaker 5 (35:12):
It was it Edinburgh.
Speaker 4 (35:14):
So there's a long list of New Zealand coaches. Pat
lamb as he took Connock to It wasn't the USC,
then it was some other previous iteration. Twelve I think
it used to be a Pro twelve it was and
then he went on to Prostal. So if you can
(35:34):
make an impact then I think that could potentially be
very much a stepping stone to international rugby, whether that's
what the All Blacks or another team.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
It could well be topic number four.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Sorry you broke last week alongside one of our colleagues
here at the heralds kennemc namara more on a pacificate
and the funding saga look at an important story obviously
around where some of the funding's coming and come in
and is going and where it's going to for next year.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
I guess in a pure rugby sense we look.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
At it and go Moana's future is under a bit
of a cloud, would it be fair to say on.
Speaker 5 (36:09):
A knife edge? Yeah, all.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
Revenue streams compromised or under threats. And I guess if
you've broaden it out like you say to a rugby
Contextas as a team that had its most successful year
in history, lurid Arde Severe won six matches, knocked off
four of the five New Zealand teams, cultivated or generated,
brought in more social media followed, was than the other
(36:37):
New Zealand teams and the Super Rugby account combined, so
you know, real engagements.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
There.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
But yet money matters, and from everything from their broadcast
funding to their skyfront a Jersey to World Rugby to
their backers, the Pacific Medical Association is now under the
spotlight and it would be horrenous, wouldn't it if this
(37:06):
team didn't survive. I think there's a lot of good
will and a lot of parties need to come together
to get them over the line. But it is also
a continuation of what we've seen in Australia with the
Melbourne Rebels and that the Brumby has been bailed out
by Rugby Australia and the Hurricanes losing two million dollars
in recent times and having to tap up investors for
(37:27):
another million dollars.
Speaker 5 (37:29):
So super Rugby.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
It costs about twelve to thirteen million to run a
club and it is proving really difficult for Mauana to
find that money. Do you think we'll be on the
start line next year? I think they will, but it's
not just next year. It's been sustainable because it's one
thing to get a Nani laal Marpi or a Nadi
(37:54):
Severe to come over. That's a positive step, but then
it's finding backers who will stick and who have viable
funding streams. It's challenging because is not a profitable business.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
And they're still pushing on with making signings, announcing players,
you know Smisi to portay Law recommitting for another couple
of years. So they're barreling on as as business as usual,
But we've got this clouding hanging over them and it's
going to come to a head at some point it is.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
And I think it's certainly before the end of the year.
You can't have that uncertainty and jeopardy hanging over a
competition with drawers need to be finalized and players futures
and all the rest of it. But you just have
to look at the broadcast deal that New zeal Rugby
(38:46):
and skygaing to stitch together. It's going to be a reduction,
So there goes you know, the overall pool is shrunk
for the eleven teams. So where the world rugby are
asked to stump up some cash? Maybe Rugby Australia, but yeah,
the pacifica Medical Association brought Winer last year. They've lost
(39:07):
over half their very you so where do they go to?
Speaker 5 (39:11):
Are they in it for the long haul?
Speaker 4 (39:13):
Does somebody else need to come and can other investors
be found? Should the team be based in New Zealand
so they have to move offshore. There's a lot of
big questions to be worked through.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Indeed, they're aspecting of different big questions. We didn't get
any response on you know, good suit plays cheese roll
place ineed and our listeners didn't quite come to the
party on that one.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
No, you might have to hit up our Dunedin local
Paul Cully, he might know some spot for a bit
of west We get our colders and then you know,
you look at the temperature and you're a Southerner man.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
No, but you look at the temperature and you go,
I can handle that. But you've actually got to incorporate
the windshill which actually you sort of deducts about fifteen
degrees off the temperature that it's listed as.
Speaker 5 (39:53):
Cash in your Southern CARDA. Don't tell Ethan the group,
you won't be welcome anyway.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
That's probably a good place to end it.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
That'll do it for Rugby Directs with our friends and
habitat tackling or your aches and pains, resport on work
and thanks.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
The last of Bars English back for another edition next week.
Catch them
Speaker 1 (40:13):
For more from News Talks at b Listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
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You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Straight down the Middle of Dry dipny score by try these.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct
with Elliot Smith and Leam Napier, powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Very, powered by Habit Health, tackling all
your aches and pains from sports and work. Elliott Smith
with me Liam Napier, Back for another week of rugby
Snannigan's and covering everything else that's gone on in the
rugby globe this time. A week ago, Liam, we had
the All Black squads locked in thirty three names, and
inevitably we come back and reconvene a week later, and
(01:01):
the squad has changed somewhat. Wallace a Titi out first
and foremost that came out late last week and now
on the we record to Mighty Williams also out for
the French series with a torn at meniscus, so a
couple of blows there from the All Blacks perspective. These
are both first choice players so in certainly ended that
last year as their first choice players in key positions.
(01:23):
So a bit of a blow for Scott Robertson.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Big setbacks Elliott. They were two of the All Black's
best performance last year. Wallas Titi was the All Black's
Player of the Year and World Rugby Breakthrough Player for
a good reason, the way he came on the test scene,
the impact he had and to Mighty Williams was a
big mover last year, went past Ethan de Grout on
that Northern tour and then this season really cemented that status.
(01:50):
He can play both sides of the scrum. He's a
destructive scrummager. He plays big minutes for a big man,
great ball in hands, scores from close range, great feet,
good hands. Really does it all for a modern day
prop so it does while it does a lot of
talking points and give others opportunities. We've got Christian Leo
(02:12):
ready coming into the full squad as well as George Bauer.
Those are two big setbacks Phil Blacks.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
They are as you mentioned, those players coming in there.
But it would tend to sugguce that Ethan de group
will start in Dunedin. Team will be named as per
on a Thursday afternoon, Thursday morning, late Thursday morning, Thursday
afternoon New Zealand. Ethan, the group should come in you
would think as starting prop. The loose Ford max is
very interesting because Luke Jacobson has been ruled out as
(02:39):
well this week, So how does that shake down for
this testing to need and your three starters and player
coming off the bench. To me, it's just is going
to be probably a couple of debutants, one starting, one
coming off the bench.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
It's going to be multiple debutantes across this all black team.
Because I agree Ethan, the group will come in and start,
and then you'll highly likely have Olie Norris coming off
the bench for his first cap, so it'll be a
big moment for him. You wouldn't imagine George Bauer, having
just been called in over the weekend, will come on
to the bench and it is a nice mix of
(03:13):
having an experienced play with the debutant there and the
loose forward mix.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
Yeah, really up for grabs.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Luke Jacobson, I think first and foremost it should be
questions about why and how he came back to finish
that game having passed his HIA and then been ruled
out mandatory twelve days standown.
Speaker 5 (03:34):
So he's out of this first test.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Well, it does present to question because his eyes were
like sources that night, and look, you can only trust
what information you were given, and if you were if
he's been passed to play through the ha protocols to
come back on the field, you know it's a fifteen
minute stand down, they have to go through a cognitive test.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Is past that.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Questions whether that test is rigorous enough, whether this or
just a one off, whether he was fine to pass
that test and then had spells afterwards. There's a little
bit up in the air as to what happened there.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Yeah, I think it's one those examples where if you,
I mean most people watching live, it looked like he
had been knocked unconscious and so he probably shouldn't have
even gone through the HIA protocols. He should have been
ruled out then and there I guess at least he's
been ruled out subsequently. But in that moment, I definitely
(04:29):
don't think he should have came back and finished that
game and losing him as another blow. Because of his versatility,
he can play six seven eights, and that's one of
the reasons he has been included in this squad. So
let's go to the balance of that loose forward trio,
and for me, it really comes down to where.
Speaker 5 (04:49):
Artie Severe plays.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Now.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
All indications were that Artie was going to move to
seven this year. The All Blacks were impressed by what
he did for Moana at seven. Wallace a Titi's preferred
position was eight. It was all set up for that
to happen. And now they're going to have to have
a rethink. Do they stick with Ardie seven or do
they just push that out a little bit and and
(05:14):
Plamer eight, where he has featured for the All Blacks
and the Hurricanes previously for what the best part of
two three years.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Well, I think we're down to a question of whether
you start Duplessy Kafi on deboo or whether you start
Christian Leo Willi on deboo' that's the option, and for me,
I almost think that having Artie back at seven would
be the preferred option.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
This week.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I like the balance probably a little bit better of
female Savia Christian Leo Willi than I would female Kadifi Savia.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
Well, female starts at six regardless.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
As Lockton's unless then move to po II or Scott
Barrett to start at six, which was sort of mentioned
last week by Scott Robertson that they could are going
to have a couple of locks that will cover blindside.
Now two of them can two of them probably can't
tap a lot in holand being the ones that can't.
Is that an option this week or do you just
(06:07):
go with the loose forwards that you've selected in the squad.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
I think it's it's a live option, but I think
it's probably something you look at in game or later
in the match, rather than a starting rather than getting
too cute. It's something that you go to, maybe out
of necessity if you had an injury later in the week.
We saw that previously with to provide starting at six
in the All Blacks lost to France at the World Cup.
(06:32):
But there is enough loose for cover in that All
Black squad, so I agree with you that it does
come down to where Ardi plays and whether they throw
Christianly aware straight in. I think they probably will. Personally,
I would put Arty to eight and give Duple C
the crack from the outset. I think he has earned it,
(06:55):
not that Weady hasn't, but Dup was firstly selected in
the squad. Leo Weirdy was injury cover, and I think
I would like to see grief he given an extended
crack at that seven jersey.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
It looks so would I to an extent.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I don't know that the hierarchy of your selected first
kind of matters though, because they didn't select enough loose Fords.
I don't think in the first place they went one short,
they could have.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Slipkepd at thirty five players they sent left themselves exposed
by yeah, selecting five and Ethan.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Black At, according to Scott Robinson speaking to Jason Pine
on his show yesterday, has a medical issues so not
available for selection currently. He would have been in contention
potentially to come in with that Satiti injury, at least
his injury cover, which is what Dalton Papaliti's role is
at the moment. But they've left themselves a little bit
(07:47):
short there, and maybe if Simon Parker was fit, they
might have also looked to blood him, but they have basically,
as I see it, two options this week. I think
you're going one way. I'm probably going the other. I
don't think there's a well they probably is a right
or wrong answer, but either way we're going to see
two new all Blacks in the loose Ford Mikes this weekend.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Well, it's a matter of whether Leah Whitt is on
the bench or Carefair, and I think whatever the case,
it is an exciting proposition, isn't it to see? The
loose forwards were always the most contentious element of the
squad from the outset. Now you've had it further injury setbacks.
Now there's going to be a couple of rookies thrust
into the mix, and it will be a bit of
(08:27):
an evolving picture as the seria goes on. But yeah,
as it stands, I'd leave Ardi at eight. I'll put
through Perceeed a seven and Summer Penny at six. But
there is less flexibility with your bench options as well
having those injuries, because you don't have a guy like
Ja Gibson, you don't have a guy likes tiqu both
(08:49):
of whom can play multiple positions.
Speaker 5 (08:51):
What about Leo Weady? Would you consider him as a six?
Speaker 3 (08:54):
I think he's played a bit of six before, hasn't
he for a Tigo? I'm not sure about the Crusaders.
Off the top of my head, I think there would
be the less than ideal scenario, and given you've got
also to provide in the twenty three, you would think
he could potentially cover that blind side, so I wouldn't
necessarily want to see him there at six. At test level,
(09:15):
he hasn't played a lot of it, but it's probably
if you had a couple of injuries, you could probably
slote in there.
Speaker 5 (09:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
So while there'll be a lot of focus on seven
and eight, whether it's Ardi Carrefi or Leo Werdi, this
series is really set up for female. Jacobson will return
and will likely get a crack, but female has not
convinced at test level. The All Blacks partly selected him
(09:42):
because they felt like he was really ready to go
before that French the loss to France and Paris last year,
and he got knocked down in the first minute or
so when luck I came on, Luckeye came on, and
so they've invested a lot in him and he hasn't
repaid that faith yet and he needs too soon.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Well, he's the prototype that they want, and in selecting
him of a black Adder, they've gone, this is the
kind kind of player that we want, a player that
gets over the game line, that has will post contact
meters than Blackadder is involved in that intangible of explosiveness.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
But he has that explosiveness a genue about him.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
Line out figure.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Exactly, but a threat with ball and hands and black
added simply isn't that he busted and put a number
of tackles in. We saw that in the super ruggy Plovs.
I think, what thirty against the Blues and another big
shifter against the Chiefs in the final. But that's not
what they're looking for at the moment. So they've gone
with the prototype. This is the body, this is the
kind of player that we want. Now they need the
(10:45):
player to match up. Will they get it in this
French series? They kind of have to. They've invested a
lot in them.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
They have and while this is a seconds very much
a second string French side, we are going to find
out about female because it will be a big French
pack that that's a non negotiables that's how they approach it.
The other big thing with female discipline. He had some
issues with the Chiefs this season. In the final series
(11:15):
he got pinged a couple of times. I think it
was against the Blue.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Well, he was awful in that Blue.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
His last the last twenty five minutes of the Blue
I think considered four or five penalties.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
And his penchant for hunting and smashing first fives is great,
but he very much borders on the line of the
law with tackle heights and timing. So he needs to
get that discipline right because there's a real bugbear of
Scott Robertson as well, and it can cost you test matchic.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
It can and it's not definitely ruled it test well.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
It is definitely ruled at Test level, but that's something
they watched for at Test level a lot more than
maybe at Super rugby level. The margins are so thin.
You give something that's going to be flagged up to
the TMO, that's red rag to a bull. The TMO
loves getting involved, they love getting their paycheck out. You
can't do that at Test level. So he's going to
have to be right on this week. Let's go through
the rest of the run on side then, because we've
talked about the loose fords the front row nowree Taylor Lomax,
(12:09):
is that perck itself? Yep, same with the locks. So
let's say Barrett and to provide yeah, okay, we'll skip
over the loose forwards regard and Barrett nine and ten.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Yeah, I don't think it's interesting, isn't it that there
seems to be a bit of a push to generate
debate about who starts at ten. For me, I don't
think there's really a question. I don't think there is
either that question was answered.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
I know Mackenzie had a great testing in Siland last year,
but if you look at where they ended the year,
they ended with Boten Bart as their first choice ten.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
And what happened in Super Agbi.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
There was Mackenzie his moments this season, and I think
he's a more dynamic attacking prospect. Yeah, he really can
spark a team, but there were some big question marks
and big games towards the end of the season about
his ability to imprint himself on the game or game
(13:09):
manage that that sort of tag still hangs over his head,
doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
It does wings, Caleb Clark, Sevy Reese. That's probably where
I'm looking at.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
I think so, and I think that we obviously will
see change there, and I think we will see whether
it's in a starting or positional shift later in a match.
Guys like Riquowhani will play spend time on the wing,
and Ruben Love. I think we will see those guys
feature there, but I think for a first test all
(13:41):
Blacks teams generally pretty scratchy to start the year. You're
bringing different super rugby teams together. Last year, with the
All Blacks so much change with a complete coaching overhaul,
the All Blacks were guilty of overloading and they really
struggled to come together for the first two weeks against England.
So I think what we'll see the general theme will
(14:02):
be cohesion and established combinations, and then you'll see some
changes throughout the series.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Fall back and then Barrett Jordy that is, and Yuanni
and midfield. There's been a few whispers around that maybe
Procter might be the guy to start this week. I
guess we'll find out Thursday. Would that surprise you whispers?
Speaker 4 (14:22):
I mean nothing to back it up. You know, people
throw things out and it wouldn't surprise me because Jordie
and Billy have an established combination. But it would surprise
me because it's the first test of the year. I
think the penny has dropped with the All Blacks that
they need to invest in Procter, give them more game time.
Didn't use them in the Rugby Championship last year. That
(14:45):
was a massive oversight, and so we will see him
start at thirteen in this series, but I do not
expect it to be this first test the bench Tokyojo.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
You would suspect Norris will come in tight head, reserved,
tight head, would think the loose forward that we talked
about a bit.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
Earlier McKenzie, and then maybe maybe a Proctor or a
Lenna Brown.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Yeah, with Lennet Brown's fit was the question, I suppose,
and Procton, who really covers center, doesn't give you a
lot of versatility and the outside backs, and that's probably
we got unstuck a little bit in terms of game
time last year, is that he can only cover that
one position. Interesting to see where they go.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Yeah, you're right, Lennard Brown does give you a lot
more versatility. I was thinking across that back line, you
don't really have another second five eight option. If Jeordie
went down, your had belly on the on the bench.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
So would it open the door for a top of
tab of Nawai potentially to come off the bench for
a debut.
Speaker 5 (15:50):
Not yet, I think maybe third test for a tub
of toab naha.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Okay, all right, A couple of other things just on
that obviously we mentioned to Mighty Williams out at the top.
This is becoming a wee bit of a tradition, all
Blacks players fighting through injury to play a Super Rugby
final then being out for an extended peer. You think
Sam Whitelocke in twenty twenty three against the Chiefs played
eighty minutes on I think it was leg injury again
(16:14):
and said Kelly's, Kelly's. He said to me after the
game that the Blacks coaches won't be happy. I don't
think they were having ready in Foster's book and talked
to him at the time about it. He missed I
think the first two tests of that World Cup year.
Patrick Toyp a lot too slightly different, was expected to
be out until midway through the All Blacks July series,
came back early, played in July, but then was ruled
(16:35):
out with a calf injury a bit later on. They
excuse me, And now to mighty Williams with that knee
injury that when knew were back quarter finally played semi
final from Rey didn't finally played. Now he's out for
six to eight weeks. Acording to Scott Robertson, it's an
annual tradition.
Speaker 5 (16:51):
Now there's some real iron, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
That Scott Robinson's up today and he's been questioned about
whether to Mighty Williams should have played in the Super
ABI final and you can sense the anks there now
he's all Black coage, but the shoe was on the
other foot in a big way when he was lording
Sam Whitelock as a godlike immortal for playing eighty minutes
(17:14):
on Achilles. That's hanging on by a three in twenty
twenty three.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Yeah, it's funny how perspectives changed very very quickly given
that all Black's job. And you just do not want
to see players engine or push themselves in Super Rugby
beyond their limits.
Speaker 5 (17:27):
That's a right look.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
Scarbb has made the point that players want to play
and I can completely understand that if you have invested
yourself in a Super Rugby campaign, if you're on the
cusp and it's a one off game final, of course
you want to give everything you can to try and
win a championship for your team. But there is a
natural conflict that exists there where Tamaty Williams is now
(17:53):
unavailable for six to eight weeks, is to have surgery
on that knee, and maybe that wouldn't have been the case.
Maybe it would have healed without surgery. If he doesn't
play the final, the All Blacks have some depth there.
Sam Whitelock's absence wasn't terminal for the All Blacks, but
there's a question, I guess, of what takes priority, and
(18:14):
that there is a very real conflict that exists that
the All Blacks don't have jurisdiction to say you're not playing.
We should they but they would bloody well. I'd love to, yeah,
but I don't think they should. And you know, you're
got to play what's in front of you.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
You can only play if you want to play a
Super Rugby final and you think you're fit to play
and you can push yourself through it. Then I think
I've got no problem with them playing. And if that
comes at the expense of them missing the All Blacks,
then good. We've sat too long where the best players
aren't playing Super Rugby and I have kept themselves either
medically fresh for the season or you know, in terms
of reaching the bar of what they're capable of on
(18:48):
the park, you know, until later in the Super Rugby season.
I think it's good that we've got players putting Super
Rugby ahead of international rugby because for so long it's
been prioritized international rugby. Rest in rotation got to say
that games. I've got no issue with it.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
I agree, but I'll throw a question at you. Do
the Crusaders win that Super Rugby title if George Bauer
starts well.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
To Mighty Williams was a minse in that final.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Jorde Bow's a handy replacement and he's come obviously the
All Black squad, I think they probably still do. Fletcher
Neul was huge on the other side. It sounds like
he's good to go with spite also playing through an
injury on the other side of the scrums he had
two injured props.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Deal to the Chiefs on that night. They probably still wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
It'd be an interesting question to ask to Mighty as well,
would you do it again knowing that you will miss
at least three tests for the All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
And go back a couple of years. You know, Sam
Whitelocke that was his last Crusader's game that one.
Speaker 5 (19:45):
So he was important context.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
You know, it was a final and everything like that.
If it was a round fifteen game and they're out
of the playoffs. Probably doesn't play it. Yeah, it was
more the irony today totally. Yeah, And as I say,
I just read about that chapter in Ian Foster's book
where it was it was brought up and obviously his
frustrations as you would have as the All Blacks. Which
(20:09):
what do we expect from the French this week? It's
going to be interesting old week. I have seen a
lot of theories around their team. Sounds like they'll probably
be an average of about maybe a total of eighty
two caps in the pack is what I've heard, so
average about ten caps you know in the pack per player.
(20:30):
Gl Fku in the back line is probably going to
contribute about ninety five caps himself roughly off the top
of my head. There's some players that New Zealanders may
have heard of in passing and that have been here before,
all played the All Blacks prior.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
But it's a green French team, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Look let's not get away from the fact that this
is a second during French team and that's not disrespectful.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
That is fact.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Well, if the All Blacks had not seen players in
the Crusaders and Chiefs, you know into the series and
said I actually will come in for the second.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Then we would be saying the same thing.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
Yeahred percent. And it's just a few facts. I guess
that the average age of the squad, there's a thirty
eight man squad the French twenty five years. The average
number of caps is nine eighteen. Of the thirty man
squad almost half uncapped. Of players with eighteen caps or more,
(21:21):
there's only six of them, and so it's very green.
And that's not to say that the French haven't built depth,
that they don't have talents, that they don't have experience
winning in the Southern hemisphere, that they could not cause
an upset. But this is not the best of the best.
But it is interesting because the All Blacks are very
(21:44):
on edge about the narrative that this is a b
French team, that they're gonna have their backs to the wall,
they've got nothing to lose, and that's somehow the media
is sort of complicit in fueling that narrative and giving
them another arm to grow.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
So I think our colleagues at the breakdown last night
company the exact where they use was a disgraceful or
shambola around the lack of selection around that.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Do you subscribe to that?
Speaker 5 (22:15):
I think I think it's insulting to.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Use you to international rugby and and the the concept
that of nationalism of yeah, let's the reverse. So the
All Black scot front Paris last year and rolled out
a second string team. They get beaten, well beaten. That
damages their brands. But I think the other point is
(22:43):
this is nothing new for France. They have not not
invested in this test calendar in terms of the July
window for some time. It was the same when they
went to Argentina last year, and there is a clear
reason for that, and that's because their their top fourteen
runs so long. The clubs run their their game is
(23:05):
extremely well supported. You know the scenes from Toulouse, We've
been there. It's a passionate rugby town that takes priority
at this summer year. And so the five players from
that final are meant to be coming out later in
this series. But it is a great shame, isn't it.
(23:27):
It takes the wind out of the series. Yeah, the
game in d Eden's still sold out, so there's massive
interest in the All Blacks. But I think it doesn't
change the expectation that the All Blacks will be expected
to win three nil and win reasonably comfortably when the
All Blecks have lost their last three tests to Fronts
and twenty eighteen was the last time they beat them,
(23:49):
and that was in a similar window. It was June,
but it was the same sort of concept and they
won very comfortably. So that that's the sort of expectation
that's around the series and that's why Scott Robinson and
the All Blacks are nervous.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Yeah, it's a dangerous expectation to set when you're expected
to win, as the All Blacks are every time they
go in the park, but when it's the opposition that's
a little creaky. I guess there are issues around that.
This is a French thing that not a lot of
play people would know about. We know the big names
French Stop fourteen is not on TV here, we're not
exposed to it, so there is a real sense of
(24:24):
the unknown this week. But for the French it's a
chance to blood a lot of players. They've got tremendous
depth as it is, they's only going to grow two
years out from the World Cup.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Yeah, and there's also no more excuses for the All
Blacks like yes, coming into July, there are a wee
bit scratchy, But this is a coaching group that has
been together largely for the best part of a year.
They've developed a lot of these combinations well established. Now
they should be on the same page. They don't have to,
you know, it's not starting afresh like it was last
(24:53):
year's They've had the best part of six months to
review last year and absorb the lessons and map out
how they want to play their games. So I think
the expectation on the All Blacks is fully justified.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I think so too.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
All Blacks team around lunchtime on Thursday, the French naming
their team Wednesday nights. I believe you can follow it
on Inzi Herald, Doctor Inzy and all the lattice news
on News Talks inb as well. We'll take a break
here on Rugby Direct with Habit Health, then come back
with the second half after this.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fares.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Every try try and sixty second every tackle tackles.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Get up again.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Before I'm not it's Rugby Direct. You're back with Rugby Direct.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
I'm now for the final four four Rugby topics plenty
to get stuck into The Lions open the Ossie part
of their tour against the Western Force with a big
win fifty four points to seven. She was fairly comfortable
in the second spell. They just ran over the top
of a Force team they hadn't played in a few weeks.
We're missing a few people in the Wallabies about what
(26:04):
we probably expected out of that game.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
It is.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
Yeah, the Force were Australia's worst team and like you say,
missing their best players. So it's a tune up match
for the Lions. It's not their full strength team. And
I looked at some of the stats even in their
loss to the Pumas and that Lion's team they made
so many more line breakspak so many more defenders.
Speaker 5 (26:29):
So this is a really good Lions team, it is.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
I think I'd be worried about the miss tackle stat
from the weekend. I think it was and I don't
the numbers in front of me, but it was a
lot for a team that won fifty four points to
seven they missed. I think it was more than twenty tackles.
It was a fast game last game, yep. A lot
of fatigue at the back end, even of the first half.
Players are blowing a lot of kicking, a lot of running,
(26:58):
so I'm not overly surprised by that. But yeah, the
Lions tour is also a hectic schedule, now, isn't it.
They play the Reds mid week and then the Warratars
on the weekends and then you know, the first Test
in a couple of weeks. The Wallabies have a tune
up against Fiji, so it will be in an engrossing series.
(27:19):
But look, let's be honest, if you paint the picture
of this series, there's every expectation rightfully, so that line
should win three nil. The Wallabies have made great improvements
under Joe Schmitt, but they are still very much developing
into that where this is the best of the best
of Europe, France and Italy excluded. You know, Ireland's England's
(27:45):
Finn Russell's in great form. I think there's one or
two Welshmen have managed to crack the squad. Thomas Williams
might be on his way home, so I'm got anyone
left actually, But look, it is a very good lines team.
What do you think do you think they'll win three nil?
They're expected to, as you said, If the Wallabies don't
win the first Test in Brisbane. It will be three
(28:08):
nil because the lines will get better and better, and
we've seen that in recent tours I think, so if
you had to pin me down, I'd say they will
win three now all right, it's.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Two to one.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Topic number two in multi All Black surge and their
second spell against Japan fairly comfortable in the end. It
was a tight first spell, played in a bit of
heats over in Japan, but just ultimately too good the
Maldi All Blacks. For a team that only flew out
on the Wednesday Langdon into Tokyo that night and then
played on Saturday, not too bad in terms of the
score they ran up.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
I think they had a bit of unfinished business this team.
They lost one game out in Japan last time. Ecklam
mentioned that postmatch that sort of stuck in the kraps,
so I think that would have been part of their motivation.
And it's an interesting series, isn't it. You get the
feeling like I'm not. I don't want to undermine the
Maldi team because it does. It has steeped in history,
(29:04):
but from I don't know, it's not something you put
on a pedestal. If you think about the previous some
of the itineries that the Mouldi All Blacks have had
when they've played the Lions, played England, when they've come
out to tour New Zealand.
Speaker 5 (29:19):
New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
Raby has this memorandum of understanding of Japan and clearly
there's stipulations about how many games they have to play
each year over there, and it does feel like the
Mouldy All Blacks and the All Blacks fifteen a fulfilling
a lot of those commitments.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
It does, and I don't know whether that's the right
thing for the Moldy All Blacks to be treated that way,
but I also don't see a path to them getting
more games. You know, the test calendar is so congested
as it is. It really is only those times of
the year when you know the calendar when the Lions
(29:55):
are coming in and they can potentially play games against
them or these sort of series. You got Scotland obviously
in fang Ada over the weekend. It's going to be
second string Scotland. They're keeping their international team active while
the lines are going on. Those seem to be the
opportunities and even you know, I think that they obviously
played Ireland twenty twenty two in that series, which was great,
(30:19):
But for next year those go as well, those three
ties series, there will be any of those opportunities. So
it feels like it's been a little bit marginalized the
Muldi All Blacks. But also don't see where on the
calendar you could fit players in or fit a team
in and play regular international fixtures against top teams.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Yeah, it's bloody tough, isn't it to uphold the prestige
of that team because I've got vivid memories. I think
it was that John o' gibbs who led the muldy
All Blacks to victory of the Lions, and just the
emotion and the scenes and the passion and the pride
around those sort of results.
Speaker 5 (30:57):
I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
Did they beat England down in New Zealand as well? Yep,
so some massive results, you know, And wouldn't it be
great to see them play the spring Box or the Wallabies,
But that's but fanciful in the current climate. So it's
important to maintain that team. But the context and the
relevance of going to Japan and playing a couple of
(31:20):
one off games, it doesn't necessarily wit the appetite.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
You'll be interesting to see in twenty thirty when the
Sutifrakan too comes here whether there is an opportunity to
play the Moldy All Blacks, so whether it's you know,
only the Super Rugby teams, that'll be fascinating, but it's
hard to see them getting much of an increase program
to this point.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Topic number three.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
We touched on this a little bit last week when
we did our Super Rugby Final rap and also the
All Black squad. But chance now to just rate CLAYD
mcmillon's tenure. I think he's off this week to begin
a new life in Munster. How would you write his
time in charge of the Chiefs also the Mouldi All
Blacks as well. He's been a plenty. He's been pretty
good servants in New Zealand rugby and I'm sure it
would be more to come.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
Yeah, All Blacks fifteen as well. So very much in
that high performance on the cusp of the All Blacks
five year, ten year with the Chiefs. I think in
the cold lighted day in the media aftermath of losing
a fourth final and how disappointing that is for those
in Chiefs country, it's easy to forget where he started
(32:22):
coming in as an interim coach Warren Gatlin going to
coach the Lions in South Africa was only ever meant
to be a six month tenure and the Chiefs were
in a real bad place. They went on to match
their worst ever losing streaker. I think it was eleven
matches with McMillan. I think he presided over two of
(32:45):
those and then really turned it around. And he did
that by drilling down into their culture, by getting by in.
He promoted a lot of players to the All Blacks
in that time as well, and brought through a number
of different coaches.
Speaker 5 (33:03):
I'd give him eight out of ten.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
I think those finals there's clearly something that he would
reflect on and something he would maybe missing in the
tool belt. The inability to get over that hump, that
mental hurd or whatever it is to not deliver a
championship having been that their most consistent team in the
(33:24):
last three years will great him. But I really hope
he goes to Monster and has a real impact at
a club that will have big expectations but has a
similar sort of investment in the pride and their history
and all those sorts of things. And been exposed to
different styles and players I think will only benefit him.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Yeah, I think it will too.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
I'll go to give him seven and a half out
of ten, probably doctor point till half a point for
those lost finals. But he's been great for the Chiefs,
has instilled a real culture in them that had probably
been missing since the day of Rainy Days and Wayne
Smith that sort of was there, but then it's sort
of unraveled and they've been closed. But he got them
back to the you know, the top table in terms
(34:10):
of New Zealand Super Rugby sides. And yeah, that final defeat,
four of them will stick with them, and the fact
that they all lost in different ways. It wasn't just
one thing that can signed them to defeat. That was
probably an easy fix twenty twenty one in Super Abiot
or twenty three in the Super Rugby final against the Crusaders.
(34:31):
You know they didn't concede a point when they had
fifteen players in the park and said at all their
points while they were down to fourteen men, got blown
up by the Blues last year, lost and arm wrestled
against the Crusaders. So in a weird way, he's lost
in different ways and that might actually gnaw at him
a little bit more that it's not one thing, easy
fix sort of scenario. It's been a number of things.
But he's a very good coach and I think promising
(34:51):
in the New Zealand set up. If we look at
a World Cup cycle away or maybe two from here
on inwards, I'm sure he's going to be back in
All Blacks contention, especially if his monster tenure goes well.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
Yeah, and interesting just to watch that from a five.
Rob Penny spent two years I think at a Munster.
Dave Rennie went to Glasgow, Scott Robin not Scott Robertson,
Todd Blackhead.
Speaker 5 (35:12):
It was it Edinburgh.
Speaker 4 (35:14):
So there's a long list of New Zealand coaches. Pat
lamb as he took Connock to It wasn't the USC,
then it was some other previous iteration. Twelve I think
it used to be a Pro twelve it was and
then he went on to Prostal. So if you can
(35:34):
make an impact then I think that could potentially be
very much a stepping stone to international rugby, whether that's
what the All Blacks or another team.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
It could well be topic number four.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Sorry you broke last week alongside one of our colleagues
here at the heralds kennemc namara more on a pacificate
and the funding saga look at an important story obviously
around where some of the funding's coming and come in
and is going and where it's going to for next year.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
I guess in a pure rugby sense we look.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
At it and go Moana's future is under a bit
of a cloud, would it be fair to say on.
Speaker 5 (36:09):
A knife edge? Yeah, all.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
Revenue streams compromised or under threats. And I guess if
you've broaden it out like you say to a rugby
Contextas as a team that had its most successful year
in history, lurid Arde Severe won six matches, knocked off
four of the five New Zealand teams, cultivated or generated,
brought in more social media followed, was than the other
(36:37):
New Zealand teams and the Super Rugby account combined, so
you know, real engagements.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
There.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
But yet money matters, and from everything from their broadcast
funding to their skyfront a Jersey to World Rugby to
their backers, the Pacific Medical Association is now under the
spotlight and it would be horrenous, wouldn't it if this
(37:06):
team didn't survive. I think there's a lot of good
will and a lot of parties need to come together
to get them over the line. But it is also
a continuation of what we've seen in Australia with the
Melbourne Rebels and that the Brumby has been bailed out
by Rugby Australia and the Hurricanes losing two million dollars
in recent times and having to tap up investors for
(37:27):
another million dollars.
Speaker 5 (37:29):
So super Rugby.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
It costs about twelve to thirteen million to run a
club and it is proving really difficult for Mauana to
find that money. Do you think we'll be on the
start line next year? I think they will, but it's
not just next year. It's been sustainable because it's one
thing to get a Nani laal Marpi or a Nadi
(37:54):
Severe to come over. That's a positive step, but then
it's finding backers who will stick and who have viable
funding streams. It's challenging because is not a profitable business.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
And they're still pushing on with making signings, announcing players,
you know Smisi to portay Law recommitting for another couple
of years. So they're barreling on as as business as usual,
But we've got this clouding hanging over them and it's
going to come to a head at some point it is.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
And I think it's certainly before the end of the year.
You can't have that uncertainty and jeopardy hanging over a
competition with drawers need to be finalized and players futures
and all the rest of it. But you just have
to look at the broadcast deal that New zeal Rugby
(38:46):
and skygaing to stitch together. It's going to be a reduction,
So there goes you know, the overall pool is shrunk
for the eleven teams. So where the world rugby are
asked to stump up some cash? Maybe Rugby Australia, but yeah,
the pacifica Medical Association brought Winer last year. They've lost
(39:07):
over half their very you so where do they go to?
Speaker 5 (39:11):
Are they in it for the long haul?
Speaker 4 (39:13):
Does somebody else need to come and can other investors
be found? Should the team be based in New Zealand
so they have to move offshore. There's a lot of
big questions to be worked through.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Indeed, they're aspecting of different big questions. We didn't get
any response on you know, good suit plays cheese roll
place ineed and our listeners didn't quite come to the
party on that one.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
No, you might have to hit up our Dunedin local
Paul Cully, he might know some spot for a bit
of west We get our colders and then you know,
you look at the temperature and you're a Southerner man.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
No, but you look at the temperature and you go,
I can handle that. But you've actually got to incorporate
the windshill which actually you sort of deducts about fifteen
degrees off the temperature that it's listed as.
Speaker 5 (39:53):
Cash in your Southern CARDA. Don't tell Ethan the group,
you won't be welcome anyway.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
That's probably a good place to end it.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
That'll do it for Rugby Directs with our friends and
habitat tackling or your aches and pains, resport on work
and thanks.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
The last of Bars English back for another edition next week.
Catch them
Speaker 1 (40:13):
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