April 15, 2026 • 38 mins
On this week’s episode of Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier delve into the uncertain future of Moana Pasifika and what their potential exit could mean for Super Rugby as a whole. How would the competition be reshaped if they were to walk away?
The boys also preview Round 10 of Super Rugby Pacific, before opening the mailbag to pick their first All Blacks XV of the 2026 season.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B.
Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio
Straight Down. They get inside the game from every end goal.
(00:32):
It's Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith and Liam Napier powered
by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Heaven Health Physio book
today and stay in the game. Back for our midweek
podcast and I can't believe it. Back face to face
for the first time in what this must be two months,
I think, Liam Napier, Good to see your face again.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
You too earlier. It's been a long haul. It's still
a long haul head, but yeah, great to see your face.
And thanks for shaving for me.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It's making exactly you know, I did think about shaving
this what age? I thought, Now I can go another
another day or two. So it is looking really sloppy.
Some big news this week since we recorded on Tuesday,
Mowana pacificat disbanding the Pacific Medical Association, their owners saying
that they are unable to fund them for future seasons
of Super Rugby Pacific, so this will be their last
(01:24):
year as it stands, although, as The Herald has reported
that you know new Ze New Zealand Rugby is saying
there could be some interested parties out there that they're
willing to talk to around securing the license and the
ability to run Mowana Pacifica. But on the surface of it,
they are gone from Super Rugby after the season. Your
initial reaction to the fact that that one is pulling pin.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
I think, first and foremost, it's it's sad, isn't it.
You never want to see a team go under, particularly
one with a stated purpose of building depth and connection
with the Pacific Island community and back to the island nations.
But it's not a surprise at all. This has been
brewing for probably since their inception, really had visions of
(02:12):
being based in the Islands. I've taken games back there
and it's it's a business. Rugby is a business. This
is not a club team. This is a team that
needs to come up with ten to twelve million a
year to stay afloat. That's what it costs to run
a Super Rugby team. And yeah, I wouldn't draw a
(02:34):
line through them just yet because there is a possibility
that White Night emerges, but it does seem increasingly unlikely
that they had a tender process out at the end
of last year, so what are we five six months
on from that and they haven't found anyone yet. There
was talk about a consortium in Melbourne. Ali Williams had
(02:55):
a bit of a look at it and then decided
against it. So unless someone's willing to come in and
throw money at it and be prepared to lose upwards
potentially of three four five million a year one as
this will be there last year, well it.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Would have to be a philanthropic venture or an ego
venture or whatever it means. You know, the idea of
owning a sports team, because a twigging someone like that
that's got not going to miss the amount of money
that they're going to lose on this, because running a
sports team in this part of the world is a
loss making venture and the Foundation Super Rugby franchises find
it hard going hard yakat to turn a profit or
(03:32):
even break even. We've heard a number of times about
the fact that a lot of the Super Rugby sides
rely on making the playoffs and having a home playoff
game to break even in a year. So when you
combine Mowana's poor results, their poor gate revenue, their ability
and ability to prep secure big names from the Pacific
for the team. It had become dre I say it,
(03:53):
you know ardisav aside, but it wasn't you know. There
were certainly players like Miracle Fire Lungey, they'd come through
moan as pathways and done very very well. But a
lot of the players were using it for one last contract.
And yes that bad names Julian Sarva, Nonula up A.
There are others there, Leediafano, Sikorpikiph even you know, players
(04:14):
that we know we're looking for one last contract and
to retire as and want a player, and that is,
you know, a noble thing to do. But it's also
you know, at the back end of their career, is
not getting in their prime. So it feels like Milana's
death is buy a thousand cuts. There's no one specific reason,
but ever since they entered the competition, and it felt
like they were almost on borrowed time from the start.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Yeah. Look, look the financial picture is grim from Winer
and has been for some time. They when they came
into the competition, they relied on massive government grant I
think it was four million dollars. They in recent times,
Sky were their front a Jersey sponsor. I think that
was worth maybe three hundred k. That's not likely that
(04:57):
that wasn't going to continue. They get a share of
the broadcast revenue, but it's not a great deal. And
then they had funding from World Rugby which is going
to cease apparently as well. So you have to find sponsors,
you have to find backers. And I did a lot
of reporting about the Pacifica Medical Association. They lost a
(05:19):
massive contract so they were always up against it whether
they could continue beyond this year. So the financial picture
did not look good. And when you take a step
back about professional rugby at this level globally, one aren't alone.
We've seen the Melbourne Rebels go under. We've seen major
league rugby teams fall over consistently over their premiership clubs
(05:43):
are losing money hand over fist. Welsh rugby is in
a die financial state. So the other New Zealand Super
Rugby teams, as you say, rely on playoff games. The
Hurricanes last year I think lost two point five million
dollars and Wellington Rugby had to sell their share their
stake in the Hurricanes. So this is not an isolated
(06:07):
financial situation running a Super rugby club in this part
of the world, or a professional club in any part
of the world is a highly expensive and very challenging
thing to do.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
I spoke to Limasopouwanga yesterday on News Talk ZB and
he talked about, you know, ideally, get there's a you know,
Ryan Reynolds type that you know, Rex and FC that
can come make a Netflix or a Disney Plus show
and the Rock Jason Momoa, Taikawa tit whoever it might
be red Bull potentially you know someone that can intervene
and maybe have a Red Bull more on a Pacifica.
(06:39):
But these are all nice ideas and look, maybe something
does happen in that in that realm, but it's hard
to see at this point. Is this something that World Rugby, though,
should be looking to fund more regularly? You know, is
this beneficial to World Rugby that they could keep funding
at and dig a little deeper into their pockets and
(07:01):
help out Wanner Pacifica in terms of keeping them alive.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Look, I think it's a very valid question because if
you look around the global game, the proliferation of Pacific
players is very evident, whether it be in the All
Blacks or England or professional rugby in any part of
the world. The Pacific players bring that flair, that athleticism,
(07:28):
and there's not a lot that funnels back to those
national teams are they You look at Samoa, Tonga, Fiji's
the exception. The Dura have really made an impact and
Fiji have improved and they've actually come to the top
table from an international perspective. But there's a real argument
(07:52):
that will Rugby needs to do more and there's a
there's a duty of care. But there's also longstanding problems
in the Pacific of corruption about where this money goes,
where it's spent, and that's not a need thing to
solve either.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
No it's not. And speaking of as I said, death
by a thousand cuts for Mwana. You know, ideally this
was the vision that they were going to be based
in the Pacific, whether it's an up again and lookal
ward over and run or co run by Samora and
Tonga and rugby unions, and that was the dream initially,
but never quite got to that point. They started at
Mount Smart, they've ended up at North Harbor Stadium. They
(08:31):
played a few home games in Pokakoe Rot. I'm sure
they try the other places that played as well as
home games. There've been no mads, but the fact that
they were never based in those Pacific islands didn't help
bring that connection like the Drua have done in Lowtoka
and Suba and bar wherever.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
They've played every I think every match because it was
the Chiefs of the Crusaders. The Blues have actually taken
games to the Pacific as well, and all those games
have been lost making ventures and one were meant to
go to Nolfaloka this year and ended up playing in
Pukakoe because the facilities weren't there, because they were going
(09:11):
to lose a lot of money. So it's very easy
to sit back and say rugby needs a team based
in Sarmon, Tonga, and yeah, they probably do, but there's
all sorts of questions around that, do players want to
live there, what are the facilities? Does it stack up
financially and most of those concerns don't stack up, and
(09:34):
so it's a real vexed issue that nobody's been able
to solve about how you contribute to the Pacific nations
that give so much to the global game it is.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Indeed, there's also been the criticism or their ability to
retain some of their key talents Levi and Muller, Tamathy
tavetav naw Way, Cirentine wifel Hour have all been quote
unquote picked off by New Zealand franchises. Part of me goes,
that's not what one was built for, was to give
these players pathway. The other part of me goes, well,
it's professional sport. You're entered in a professional arena and
(10:08):
part of that is the retaining and signing of players
or letting go of players. But again it's been used
a little bit as a shop window for some of
the New Zealand teams to get some talent through the
doors in the franchises.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Yeah. I think the one exception was they managed to
come up with the cash to get more Ardi there
when he was paid more to play for Muana than
he was the Hurricanes or what the Hurricanes were willing
to offer him. So that's the one exception. The problem
there is those players you mentioned or view the All
(10:45):
Blacks as a superior pathway, a superior way to set
themselves up financially, and that's a reality. Players who go
back to represent their island nations have endured many issues,
whether it be insurance or travel or not getting paid.
(11:06):
And the disparity between playing for Tonga and Samoa and
the All Blacks is massive.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
It's huge, isn't it. It really is huge that they
you know, and if you have the eligibility and think
you're a genuine chance of making the All Blacks, you
can't do it out of playing for more on Pacifica.
Those are the rules. So Tom Wilf had to move elsewhere.
They retained Subi sid to Paultayler who was unwanted by
the Highlanders, didn't make their full squad. He got them
(11:34):
in their last year and now he's resigned for a
couple of years. So but he would be ineligible for
the All Blacks despite having you know, All Blacks eligibility.
So there are there are players like that little fish
hooks right around the system. I guess, the question being
we're too now for a number of these players, including
Ardisavia who is under contract for more Wanda Pacifica for
(11:56):
twenty twenty seven and what would probably be is last
year in New Zealand rugby.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Yeah, it's a big question. And unless some white knight
comes in and does prop up More for another year,
which does seem increasingly unlikely. Ardie will become a free agent. Look,
he could make bank abroad by going on another sabbatical
without be Japan.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Do you think New Zealand Rugby would allow that.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
No.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
In short notes, this his last year probably of his contract,
one of the new je rug also his current contract.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
And it's a World Cup year. I think you if
there's one year you're reluctant to let players leave the
country and not be in the shop window, and not
be monitored from a workload perspective, all those things. If
he went to France or Leinster. It's a big old
year with a World Cup on the horizon. So no,
I wouldn't completely draw a line through him going offshore.
(12:52):
But I think New zeal Rugby would be hugely reluctant,
having already granted him two sabbaticals in this World Cup
cycle and having come close to losing him. Look at
this point, I would say, I don't know this for
a fa but I would say the Blues are favorites
to land Ardi because the Hurricanes have great depth and
(13:14):
their loose forwards. Mentioned that they're loss last year. From
a financial perspective, they're not gonna be able to break
the bank and pay Ardie what he wants. Probably, you've
got guys like Jordie. I think he's their top earner
and that's not going to change. And the Hurricanes are
going great. They're not going to break the bank for
one guy. The Blues are the richest New Zealand franchise.
(13:39):
They have a suite of sponsors. John Hart has rich
businessman in his pockets and contributing. They're losing Dalton, Papali,
Hoskinsitutu and others. I've got Anton Signa. But it does
make a lot of sense. The only thing is Ardie's
family is based in Wellington. But at this point I
(14:00):
would say if Minor folds that that's where I think
he would.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
He would have been expecting to spend most of the
season in Auckland with more Waner Pacifica, so that's a
natural switch that he could go play for the Blues.
His brother Julian obviously is up in Auckland and playing
for Morena at the moment and living in Auckland, so
that's a possibility. Look pretty good in red and black
at the new Stadium. Yes, I thought, you know, I
(14:24):
don't think anything Blackett assigned for next year for the Crusaders,
so that they may be in the market potentially.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Some thought, somehow I can't see that penny ass.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
But there are other players obviously other than ard that A. Now,
well that's the question. You know, if you're a player
that is either on contract for twenty seven or off
contract with more Wana Pacifica, is your contract now null
and void with more Wanna Pacifica. You know, yes there
might be some new owners, but does that contract hold?
Are you now a free agent? Would you trust that
(14:55):
there could be someone to come through? So if you're
a player that is under contract, are you able to
break that contract because there's no ownership. So that's the
intriguing thing for me is that surely these players not
bound by the contracts that they may have in their
name for twenty seven and possibly beyond that.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Yeah, I think if you're a player in that vulnerable
situation right now, you are looking elsewhere and you would
have the right to secure your future by moving on.
The closest comparison is the Rebels. We saw them fold
and by and large a lot of those players are
snapped up by other Australian teams. Some of them went offshore,
(15:32):
but the pool of professionals of contracts in New Zealand
is going to shrink drastically if WINA falls over. The
other question is I don't know if it's a question
as such, but think back, this is from a results perspective,
things have changed drastically, haven't they. The financial concerns were
(15:52):
always there, but last year Wina were riding such a high.
They were on the cusp of the playoffs. Ardie Severe
was the best player in the competition named MVP before
the end of the regular season. The crowds were coming,
the vibes were there, and then it's just all unraveled
from a results perspective, from a momentum perspective, very quickly.
(16:16):
But it is the financials that's ultimately potentially going to
be there undoing.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
It is indeed, and you're right, they were riding high
last year. Artie was getting the wins, that big win
over the Blues at North Harbor Stadium. There are others
in Christy, the Hurricanes. Yeah, there was a real sense
of self belief last year that this team was building
and you know, obviously take our Artie sav and that's
always going to hurt things. But Look, if you've been
(16:44):
there this year, the crowds might have been bigger, the
results would have probably been better. I don't think they
would have been in the situation that they.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Are, but the ownership situation doesn't.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
That that doesn't change either, And they would have had
to pay Arti an extra season that maybe they couldn't
have afforded to, but knowing that he was only going
to be there for twenty five and twenty seven. So
there are all sorts of little things. But yeah, if
you're a player like a Miracle Filene, surely New Zealand
franchise is looking to him now. Player with leadership crudentials
some on international could slot in somewhere around the traps
(17:18):
in New Zealand franchise. He's a quality players and he's
he tupor Tayler, you know from Southland. Maybe the Highlanders
look at him for next year under Jammie Joseph.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yeah, I think his own franchise will we look at them.
I've heard whispers already that Miracle will probably go to Japan.
I don't know if Artie's potentially opened a few doors
up there for him, but whether he goes, you wish
him well. Don't you His pathway from an unknown talent
in Samoa to captaining a Super Rugby franchise and he's
(17:50):
a pin up boy now for someone in rugby.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
He was he was picked by more in the Pacific,
his talent, scouts of coaches at a combine and some
more out of club rugby and some more. He's where
it's worked well, but there are a number of issues
where it hasn't worked well for more in a Pacific.
Where does this leave Super Rugby for twenty twenty seven
and beyond that?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
It's another massive kicking the balls from the credibility. When
did the Rebels fold? Was it two years ago? Now?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah, it was twenty four? I think it was from
memory yea.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Yeah. See, you've had a couple of teams go under
in recent times and a competition that is struggling to
get fans through the door. I don't know why are
in a massive draw card, but an eleven team competition
wasn't ideal either, but it does nothing for your credibility
(18:45):
of your competition when you're losing teams, when there's uncertainty
around your competition, when you can't put together a draw
right now for next year, when there's questions about the
financial viability of the competition, the structure of it for
next year, How does it work, how does it look?
It doesn't do a lot for your brand, does it.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
No, it's certantly over the last ten years being in
a state of flux. And this is again another unwanted
chapter for Super Rugby. And this goes back to even
before the South African size left. You know, they tinker
with it so often, got to eighteen teams. It was bloated,
it was a horrible structure. There was too many teams
(19:28):
at one point. There was a confusing competition structure in
some ways. And now they have another thing to deal with.
Is it viable with ten teams going forward?
Speaker 3 (19:38):
It probably has to be. Look, the on field product
is actually pretty good. But the other problem with Super
Rugby is it's just highly predictable, isn't it. There's a
real lack of jeopardy. The top six right now is
the same as last year. You could probably pick the
semi finals before the season starts. There's the odd upset.
(19:58):
But even for you know, bolted on rugby fans, is
it generating the interest it needs?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
No, it's tired. It is as predictable. Look, you know,
we know that the top Sex by and load there
might be you know, one team that exits and one
team that comes through, but other than that, they're bolted on.
And they've been bolted on already and there are still
five six weeks of Super Rugby round robin to go.
I don't think that's healthy for the state of the competition.
(20:27):
And there is an inherent dip and interest, at least
on this side of the Tasman when New Zealand teams
are playing Australian sides, and that's because of the records
that New Zealand teams hold against the Australian sides. And
yeah they've picked up the odd win here or there,
but until you really do have the jeopardy in those games,
then it is going to continue to be a competition
(20:48):
where the derbies generate more, much more interest than the
Blues playing the war Tars, Blues playing the fours, Hurricanes
playing the you know, the Brumbies. Even even though that's
been a rivalry of sorts and there's been an up
and down results, it's.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Still I've had great results against the Zealand teams this year.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
But again, you sit on Tuesday. They couldn't win the camp.
They've been and everyone but the Hurricane. I stand by
there and this is where the competition is. So is
it feasible to continue Super Rugby?
Speaker 3 (21:15):
I think it has to be. But the other point
to make is it pretty much has to be a
ten team competition because when the Rebels folded, there was
all sorts of talk and speculation about where they would
get a twelfth team from. They investigated the Huguardias, they
looked at potential on the West coast of America. But
(21:37):
a startup team would almost potentially be the death kniel
of this competition. Bringing in a whipping boy is not
what this competition needs only for it to fall over.
I just can't see any viable option in that regard.
So it has to be a ten team competition.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Our friend of the podcast, Christy Dorian, brought yesterday in
The Australian that stand the Australian broadcast is a keen
on a conference model for Super Rugby, which would split
the teams into two pools. Obviously you'd have probably have
the Druid jumping in with the Australian sides, and that
conference model would mean that Australian sides more easily make
(22:19):
the playoffs and particularly home games, you'd probably well ten teams.
I'm not sure how many you'd qualify for the playoffs,
but potentially have to before we think so. But yeah,
I mean the guaranteed Australian sides you maybe have two
from each. That that again hurts the credibility I think
of the competition, double round robin could bigger possibility, but again,
as anyone you know, again, that would elongate the competition
(22:41):
by a little bit. You might be able eliminate a
bye week potentially or something there. But again it's is
anyone wanting to see the Highlanders play the Force in
Perth and Dunedin twice in the season or even you know,
even some of the you know games like internally in
New Zealand. Does it really hold muster to make that
(23:02):
a double round robin.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
I think there's a clash of ideals here that revolves
around revenue and broadcasters between what fan interests. I think
from my perspective, there only would need to be a
home and away once and it's a short hit, but
the interest is far more than dragging something out longer.
(23:26):
But from a broadcast and revenue perspective. They want more games,
So again there's that tension between interest and what would
engage fans, between where the money comes from.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah. Again, I mentioned this. Spoke with Limosopowanga, the former
All Blacks and some on International yesterday and new Stik
ZB and he said ten teams was a mickey mouse
competition for super rugby and promotion. And this is an
idea that comes up every so often of supercharged NPC competition. Now,
I think in fancy it sounds great. In reality it's
(24:01):
probably looks a little bit different because players think that
the All Blacks will be spread around. They'll all go
to their home franchise. As you have the Barrett brothers
playing for Tartanaki. You'll have players that grew up in
those regions going home and playing NPC. That only works
because they can do it for a short hit or
maybe outside their All Blacks commitments can align themselves with
an MPC team. It's a lot different for a competition,
(24:22):
and again the financials would be the question mark whether
that could generate the revenue required for New Zealand rugby.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Yeah, I don't mind the idea. I think there's a
real patriotism that comes from the NPC that super rugby
has never really been able to capture, maybe in its
early years, but certainly not probably for the last decade.
That there's not that staunch loyal following or honestly passion
(24:51):
that people have for their provinces. But a sole domestic
competition would not generate as much revenue because you don't
have multiple broadcasters, and maybe the players then wouldn't be
able to be paid as much because you're spreading them
around more, there's more team so that the pot is diluted,
and then maybe more of those top players are actually
(25:13):
looking off shore, so there are spin off effects. But
I think from a interest point of view, it would
probably be.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
More following yep, And now I think I think it
genuinely would be. I think there would be more following and.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
You could have a crossover with Australia at the end
of it.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah, and there's the blubb Board Cup potentially coming down
the line as well in a couple of years. But
it feels like that may be the recipe needed. Again,
usual on rugby likely to say the financials just don't
stack up to deliver this competition, But at some point
you've got to figure out what fans want and what
the interest levels would be and how much blood is
(25:52):
left in the stone I guess of these New Zealand
franchises and indeed the competition which is losing teams. So
it feels like Super Rugby is at a very delicate
and perhaps a wee bit of a tipping point, doesn't
it It does?
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Yeah, and look at that conference mode you talk about
the other thing we haven't discussed as an open free market.
So Australians can come to New Zealand's any New Zealand
can go to Australia and it's a free for all.
They can still be picked for their national teams. I
think that would boost the competitiveness of the competition. But
(26:31):
good luck telling the Crusaders to let Rich and Wong
and go when he comes home.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Or but again they could go to market and try
and pick up Joseph Suliki or whether it might.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Be that would generate massive interest in a draft alone
about where players end up. But does Joseph suiely you
want to go and live in christ Church?
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Wouldn't seems like a weird argument to make, Glenn. But again,
yet that this is The thing is that this is
another one that's been floated as a possibility. But again,
like you're not getting paid enough to go Yep, we'll
move over to that part of the world. You know,
even if the force of willing to pay overs to
(27:14):
get you, you've still got to pick up your life
and move over to Western Australia and that may not
suit you, your family, whatever it might be. Whereas we're
talking about this offline before we recorded, in North American sports,
you're getting paid so much money and you're at the
will of these team owners that you get told where
to go. And that's not the same in Southern Hemisphestal.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
It's not. No, you're comparing apples with oranges. We've discussed previously.
Maybe teams get to protect twenty six players and then
beyond that there's a draft. I think that's a viable option,
but I can't see a world in which it's a
complete free for all.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
No, no interesting times for a super Rugby will keep
across it here on Rugby Direct. Let's get into our
tipping us before we jump into the mail bag. Liam,
you have a two point lead in our tip and competition,
so good on you.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
I've also rocketed up the fantasy have you. I think
I'm in the top ten now.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Because I forgot to do my team a couple of
weeks ago.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
McKinsey, mate, Okay, yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Troubled captain Will Jordan two weeks ago against the drawer
and he distributed a lot that night, but didn't get
a lot of points. Unfortunately.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
It's going to be special when I take home the
championship winning Hurricanes jersey.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yeah. Well you can pay for it out of your
own pocket. Blues Highlanders kicked us off seven o five
on a Friday night on Gold Sport on iHeartRadio. Blues
belted last week at on Ree Stadium and Wellington. Do
they return home and get the win over the Hohinders?
Speaker 3 (28:39):
They do. The Cavalry's returning, aren't they Patrick two, Polo
two and others coming back for the Blues. I suspect
they do it pretty comfortably.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yeah, there's a definite steal to their full pack that
was missing last week when you put in Papaleisatusu into
the mix, and that elevates the starting side but also
elevates the bench because you can tweak it with those players.
They've gone with a six two split on the bench
as well, which is interesting.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Probably tells you where they're going to go at the Landers,
doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Yeah, I just can't see the Hunders coming out to
Aqui and winning unfortunately for them. I think they've run
their race. Wartors more onea Pacifica in Sydney on Friday night.
This is interesting, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (29:18):
And this is a bit a bit of feeling around
this one there and whether when a team loses a
coach or there's a big off field issue brewing and
Mowana's case, potentially counting down the days that they've got
a lot to play for they do.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Is there he willing to pick them? I'm not, no,
are you I'm going to pick them? I think there
will be fire in the bellley. The Wartors have been
up and down this season. Yeah, I think I think
there will be a bit of a motion around Winer Pacifica.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Yeah, I think so too, And there's probably a bit
of there might be a decent turnout.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yep for that as well. Yeah. I noticed Prince Harry's
going that was announced before more wide to shutdowns, so
it's another thing he's ruined. Prince Harry Chiefs Hurricane seven
oh five on Saturday night Game of the Round again
we had one D two larg this week. We've now
conspired to get one v two again in Super Rugby
the Chiefs and second Hurricanes and first.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Grand Final preview earlier calling it now.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
And it's later in the night when the Force play
the Crusaders mate Chiefs Hurricanes.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
Well, of course I'm going to go the Cane train,
but I'm a bit nervous for this game. I think
the Chiefs. Chiefs have found a bit of form, getting
a few bodies back, Wallace to Titi back on the
bench for the first time in a long time, Quintupire
to center in an all black trial matchup I think
against Billy Proctor. So very intrigued to see how that
(30:44):
plays out. But on top of my Canes mate.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Luke Jacobson is one hundredths as well for the Chiefs
to play for them. They've got No. Two po vai
this week, which I think is a big loss and
that's why I'm also going to go with the Hurricanes
at coming in and getting the win away. Brumby's Fiji
and Drew and Canberra. Hard to see the drawer going
to sunny Canberra and picking up points there isn't it?
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Yes, a bit of a contrast and which they won't enjoy.
So I'll go the Brumby Stair.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
And forced Crusaders. A lot of outs of the Crusaders injuries,
they would have Villian concussion protocols. Christian Leo Willy captaining
this week. George Bridges at center form the Crusader for
the Force. Zach Lomax is starting for them on the
right wing. They were disappointing in sloppy last week the
Crusaders and now they've lost some more bodies. Can you
(31:32):
can you see which way do you see this one going?
Speaker 3 (31:34):
I'm going to go the Force, he Earliott. Okay, that
Crusaders team is extremely lightweight. You've even gone no Hopem's
on the bench. I think it's a great risk after Yeah,
there's a massive injury outs, but I didn't like what
I saw for the Crusaders last week, and Perth can
be a bit of a bogey place to go. The
Force have been better this year, so big upset on
(31:57):
the cards.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
I'm going to the Crusaders, but I think it'll be tight.
Will Jordan out for three to five weeks so that
rules them out of the opener at the New Stadium
next week, but also some big derby's coming up, and
we've seen what the Crusaders without Will Jordan, not only
this year but previous couple of years. That might be
enough to draw a line through them this season if
they can't find a way to win without him and
the next week while then I can't see them winning
(32:19):
the comp.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Yeah, big outs. I think they'll go to them all
and try and use that against the Force. But I've
always liked the Force, Elliot.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, You've always been a big Force Gype. You bought
a jersey when we're over there last year, you had
the Force Camp everything like that. You can get in
touch and follow us in the fantasy as well, as
you mentioned on Rugby Direct a podcast. Time now though
to jump into the mail bag, producer Mark has slid
into the studio. Producer Mark, you have something out of
the mailbag for us, Yes, thank you, Elliott.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
This is coming from our man Floyd over in Sydney.
Thanks for emailing and Floyd through nine rounds of Super
Rugby less than seventy days away from that first All
Blacks test of the year. What's your Blacks fifteen looking
like for that first game at France. I believe even
christ isn't it. We will start with our guest and
(33:11):
studio Liampe.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Great.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Great to meet you and see you. Finally, it's right
great to great to be be back with a bionic arm.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah, a lot of a lot of equipment that you
brought in with you.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
It's a hell of a nick. Sorry, maybe we should
put that out there for the world to see it.
I'm going to go fairly stock standard Ethan the grouts,
Cody Taylor, Fletcher Newle with Tyler L. Lomax not playing
a lot this year to provide in great form locks interesting.
(33:46):
I'm going to back to Scott Barratt to come back
and get in some sort of form, so I'm gonna
leave him in the starter's capacity, with Fabian Hollands out
for the whole year. Patrick two Polocho hasn't played any rugby.
Josh Lord has been in good form. I'm gonna promote
Devin Flanders for his debut blindside. I think sue rugby
(34:07):
form has to count for up me. He's been knocking
on the door for a number of years. That blindside
role needs to be solved and I think Simon Parker
has been a bit indifferent this year for the Chiefs.
He doesn't offer as much as Devon from an offensive perspective.
Alreadie openside. I'm going Peter Luckeye at number eight. He
was brilliant last year. He's played predominantly eights. Cam Roy
(34:31):
guards ten is very tough. Rich Warner is not available yet,
so I'm gonna stick with Bowden. Not entirely convinced about that.
Jeordi at twelve, Quinti Pie at thirteen, Caleb Clark on
the left, and you know what, I'm going to pick Forehei.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Before he goes to newcast.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Yeah, get him in there, mates, he's not going I'm
putting the foot down right on the rights. And Will
Jordan at fullback.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Okay, I am similar across the board. Thank you Floyd
for your question. I think this first at least this
first run on team will be fairly standard. The squad
might have a few different players in there, but there's
so little time together for Dave Rennie. He's obviously got
a mission before the World Cup to get these players
(35:21):
up to speed, but he's got so little time with
him before the first Test that I think it'll be
about keeping things simple and we might see some more
variations as time goes on throughout the course of the year.
So my front row is the same de Groot, Taylor Newell.
My second row is slightly different. I've gone Lord and Barrett,
Scott Barrett, I believe. Yeah, I'm backing him to come
(35:41):
back and just int form. I could have gone to
it a lot too, but again he hasn't played with
Seeing him this weekend for the first time two po
Vis at blindside flanker for me.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Yeah, yeah, I'm not sold on him as a sex
I think he lacks a better pace.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
I'm not sold on him six either, but I'm not
sure about Flant like I really I think Flanders having
exceptional season. He would be in my squad at this point,
but not in this first team of the year. So
via open side, Flanka Satiti at number eight, Roy gard
A half back, Boden Barrowed at ten. Did think about Love,
but I think he's got to work his way and
see a bit more from him the Super Rugby season.
(36:15):
But I think we will see Rubin Love at ten
a bit later in the year for the All Blacks potentially.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Yeah, needs a crack there.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Yeah, and it's gonna interesting to see how Dave Rennie
approaches that. Caleb Clark and Caleb tungkytower to Caleb's and
my wings, midfielders barrot In Supier, and fullbackers Will Jordan.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Yeah, fairly similar.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Yeah. I think this first team, this is run on
team or the twenty three of the year, is going
to be fairly straightforward from Dave Rennie. I might be
completely wrong.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Yeah, I think in the wider squad there will be
some players that he picks on work great and character,
maybe some guys that are not necessarily on the radar.
We saw that during his time with the Chiefs, so
I think there will be a couple of surprises. But
from a starting perspective, you're right, they're not going to
have a lot of time and a lot of those
(37:04):
players picked themselves.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Yeah, and it'd be great to go, Yep, you're gonna
try Ruben Love at team. You're gonna do this, You're
gonna do that. You've still gotta beat France, and yeah,
it might be a second string France that comes, but
there is a job to do. We've got eh Lee
the following week and with all due respect to your
Italian heritage that is, and the way they've been playing,
they've been very good, but there can be some changes
for that week before you got Island in week three.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Yeah, and look, the South African Tour on the horizon
has those midweek games where you are going to have
a chance to give fringe guys game time, and that's
hugely beneficial because there's been too many examples Ruben Love
stands out of players who have sat idle and not
had enough opportunities in recent times at that level.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yeah. Absolutely, And look, I know the argument is made
around the lack of Tier two teams that the All
Backs have played over the last two years, but you
do need to text some risks at some point as well,
so we'll see how that unfolds. We might do a
proper all black squad draft or a picking a bit
closer to the announcer in which I believe is around
the end of Super Rugby as per that'll do us
(38:07):
for rugby, Dric. There is another question the Malbury that
I do want to get to, but Tim has been
asking around Ruben loveve Dang Carter. I do need to
run the stats, so I'm going to try and dig
into that before. You will get to that in a
week or two here on Rugby Direct, but you can
get in touch with us Rugby Direct at newstalk zb
dot co dot z's great to see you back in studio, Liam,
don't be a stranger.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
I won't be punching you with the left hand this year.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
No, that's right. You know we're going to be safe
from injury on tour, which is really good for me.
Thanks Mark Kelly for producing. We will see you back
after the weekend of Super Rugby. Enjoy your Rugby could
see Oh Heaven Health is her book today. Stay in
the game
Speaker 1 (38:46):
For more from News Talks EDB, listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B.
Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio
Straight Down. They get inside the game from every end goal.
(00:32):
It's Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith and Liam Napier powered
by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Heaven Health Physio book
today and stay in the game. Back for our midweek
podcast and I can't believe it. Back face to face
for the first time in what this must be two months,
I think, Liam Napier, Good to see your face again.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
You too earlier. It's been a long haul. It's still
a long haul head, but yeah, great to see your face.
And thanks for shaving for me.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It's making exactly you know, I did think about shaving
this what age? I thought, Now I can go another
another day or two. So it is looking really sloppy.
Some big news this week since we recorded on Tuesday,
Mowana pacificat disbanding the Pacific Medical Association, their owners saying
that they are unable to fund them for future seasons
of Super Rugby Pacific, so this will be their last
(01:24):
year as it stands, although, as The Herald has reported
that you know new Ze New Zealand Rugby is saying
there could be some interested parties out there that they're
willing to talk to around securing the license and the
ability to run Mowana Pacifica. But on the surface of it,
they are gone from Super Rugby after the season. Your
initial reaction to the fact that that one is pulling pin.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
I think, first and foremost, it's it's sad, isn't it.
You never want to see a team go under, particularly
one with a stated purpose of building depth and connection
with the Pacific Island community and back to the island nations.
But it's not a surprise at all. This has been
brewing for probably since their inception, really had visions of
(02:12):
being based in the Islands. I've taken games back there
and it's it's a business. Rugby is a business. This
is not a club team. This is a team that
needs to come up with ten to twelve million a
year to stay afloat. That's what it costs to run
a Super Rugby team. And yeah, I wouldn't draw a
(02:34):
line through them just yet because there is a possibility
that White Night emerges, but it does seem increasingly unlikely
that they had a tender process out at the end
of last year, so what are we five six months
on from that and they haven't found anyone yet. There
was talk about a consortium in Melbourne. Ali Williams had
(02:55):
a bit of a look at it and then decided
against it. So unless someone's willing to come in and
throw money at it and be prepared to lose upwards
potentially of three four five million a year one as
this will be there last year, well it.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Would have to be a philanthropic venture or an ego
venture or whatever it means. You know, the idea of
owning a sports team, because a twigging someone like that
that's got not going to miss the amount of money
that they're going to lose on this, because running a
sports team in this part of the world is a
loss making venture and the Foundation Super Rugby franchises find
it hard going hard yakat to turn a profit or
(03:32):
even break even. We've heard a number of times about
the fact that a lot of the Super Rugby sides
rely on making the playoffs and having a home playoff
game to break even in a year. So when you
combine Mowana's poor results, their poor gate revenue, their ability
and ability to prep secure big names from the Pacific
for the team. It had become dre I say it,
(03:53):
you know ardisav aside, but it wasn't you know. There
were certainly players like Miracle Fire Lungey, they'd come through
moan as pathways and done very very well. But a
lot of the players were using it for one last contract.
And yes that bad names Julian Sarva, Nonula up A.
There are others there, Leediafano, Sikorpikiph even you know, players
(04:14):
that we know we're looking for one last contract and
to retire as and want a player, and that is,
you know, a noble thing to do. But it's also
you know, at the back end of their career, is
not getting in their prime. So it feels like Milana's
death is buy a thousand cuts. There's no one specific reason,
but ever since they entered the competition, and it felt
like they were almost on borrowed time from the start.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Yeah. Look, look the financial picture is grim from Winer
and has been for some time. They when they came
into the competition, they relied on massive government grant I
think it was four million dollars. They in recent times,
Sky were their front a Jersey sponsor. I think that
was worth maybe three hundred k. That's not likely that
(04:57):
that wasn't going to continue. They get a share of
the broadcast revenue, but it's not a great deal. And
then they had funding from World Rugby which is going
to cease apparently as well. So you have to find sponsors,
you have to find backers. And I did a lot
of reporting about the Pacifica Medical Association. They lost a
(05:19):
massive contract so they were always up against it whether
they could continue beyond this year. So the financial picture
did not look good. And when you take a step
back about professional rugby at this level globally, one aren't alone.
We've seen the Melbourne Rebels go under. We've seen major
league rugby teams fall over consistently over their premiership clubs
(05:43):
are losing money hand over fist. Welsh rugby is in
a die financial state. So the other New Zealand Super
Rugby teams, as you say, rely on playoff games. The
Hurricanes last year I think lost two point five million
dollars and Wellington Rugby had to sell their share their
stake in the Hurricanes. So this is not an isolated
(06:07):
financial situation running a Super rugby club in this part
of the world, or a professional club in any part
of the world is a highly expensive and very challenging
thing to do.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
I spoke to Limasopouwanga yesterday on News Talk ZB and
he talked about, you know, ideally, get there's a you know,
Ryan Reynolds type that you know, Rex and FC that
can come make a Netflix or a Disney Plus show
and the Rock Jason Momoa, Taikawa tit whoever it might
be red Bull potentially you know someone that can intervene
and maybe have a Red Bull more on a Pacifica.
(06:39):
But these are all nice ideas and look, maybe something
does happen in that in that realm, but it's hard
to see at this point. Is this something that World Rugby, though,
should be looking to fund more regularly? You know, is
this beneficial to World Rugby that they could keep funding
at and dig a little deeper into their pockets and
(07:01):
help out Wanner Pacifica in terms of keeping them alive.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Look, I think it's a very valid question because if
you look around the global game, the proliferation of Pacific
players is very evident, whether it be in the All
Blacks or England or professional rugby in any part of
the world. The Pacific players bring that flair, that athleticism,
(07:28):
and there's not a lot that funnels back to those
national teams are they You look at Samoa, Tonga, Fiji's
the exception. The Dura have really made an impact and
Fiji have improved and they've actually come to the top
table from an international perspective. But there's a real argument
(07:52):
that will Rugby needs to do more and there's a
there's a duty of care. But there's also longstanding problems
in the Pacific of corruption about where this money goes,
where it's spent, and that's not a need thing to
solve either.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
No it's not. And speaking of as I said, death
by a thousand cuts for Mwana. You know, ideally this
was the vision that they were going to be based
in the Pacific, whether it's an up again and lookal
ward over and run or co run by Samora and
Tonga and rugby unions, and that was the dream initially,
but never quite got to that point. They started at
Mount Smart, they've ended up at North Harbor Stadium. They
(08:31):
played a few home games in Pokakoe Rot. I'm sure
they try the other places that played as well as
home games. There've been no mads, but the fact that
they were never based in those Pacific islands didn't help
bring that connection like the Drua have done in Lowtoka
and Suba and bar wherever.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
They've played every I think every match because it was
the Chiefs of the Crusaders. The Blues have actually taken
games to the Pacific as well, and all those games
have been lost making ventures and one were meant to
go to Nolfaloka this year and ended up playing in
Pukakoe because the facilities weren't there, because they were going
(09:11):
to lose a lot of money. So it's very easy
to sit back and say rugby needs a team based
in Sarmon, Tonga, and yeah, they probably do, but there's
all sorts of questions around that, do players want to
live there, what are the facilities? Does it stack up
financially and most of those concerns don't stack up, and
(09:34):
so it's a real vexed issue that nobody's been able
to solve about how you contribute to the Pacific nations
that give so much to the global game it is.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Indeed, there's also been the criticism or their ability to
retain some of their key talents Levi and Muller, Tamathy
tavetav naw Way, Cirentine wifel Hour have all been quote
unquote picked off by New Zealand franchises. Part of me goes,
that's not what one was built for, was to give
these players pathway. The other part of me goes, well,
it's professional sport. You're entered in a professional arena and
(10:08):
part of that is the retaining and signing of players
or letting go of players. But again it's been used
a little bit as a shop window for some of
the New Zealand teams to get some talent through the
doors in the franchises.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Yeah. I think the one exception was they managed to
come up with the cash to get more Ardi there
when he was paid more to play for Muana than
he was the Hurricanes or what the Hurricanes were willing
to offer him. So that's the one exception. The problem
there is those players you mentioned or view the All
(10:45):
Blacks as a superior pathway, a superior way to set
themselves up financially, and that's a reality. Players who go
back to represent their island nations have endured many issues,
whether it be insurance or travel or not getting paid.
(11:06):
And the disparity between playing for Tonga and Samoa and
the All Blacks is massive.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
It's huge, isn't it. It really is huge that they
you know, and if you have the eligibility and think
you're a genuine chance of making the All Blacks, you
can't do it out of playing for more on Pacifica.
Those are the rules. So Tom Wilf had to move elsewhere.
They retained Subi sid to Paultayler who was unwanted by
the Highlanders, didn't make their full squad. He got them
(11:34):
in their last year and now he's resigned for a
couple of years. So but he would be ineligible for
the All Blacks despite having you know, All Blacks eligibility.
So there are there are players like that little fish
hooks right around the system. I guess, the question being
we're too now for a number of these players, including
Ardisavia who is under contract for more Wanda Pacifica for
(11:56):
twenty twenty seven and what would probably be is last
year in New Zealand rugby.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Yeah, it's a big question. And unless some white knight
comes in and does prop up More for another year,
which does seem increasingly unlikely. Ardie will become a free agent. Look,
he could make bank abroad by going on another sabbatical
without be Japan.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Do you think New Zealand Rugby would allow that.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
No.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
In short notes, this his last year probably of his contract,
one of the new je rug also his current contract.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
And it's a World Cup year. I think you if
there's one year you're reluctant to let players leave the
country and not be in the shop window, and not
be monitored from a workload perspective, all those things. If
he went to France or Leinster. It's a big old
year with a World Cup on the horizon. So no,
I wouldn't completely draw a line through him going offshore.
(12:52):
But I think New zeal Rugby would be hugely reluctant,
having already granted him two sabbaticals in this World Cup
cycle and having come close to losing him. Look at
this point, I would say, I don't know this for
a fa but I would say the Blues are favorites
to land Ardi because the Hurricanes have great depth and
(13:14):
their loose forwards. Mentioned that they're loss last year. From
a financial perspective, they're not gonna be able to break
the bank and pay Ardie what he wants. Probably, you've
got guys like Jordie. I think he's their top earner
and that's not going to change. And the Hurricanes are
going great. They're not going to break the bank for
one guy. The Blues are the richest New Zealand franchise.
(13:39):
They have a suite of sponsors. John Hart has rich
businessman in his pockets and contributing. They're losing Dalton, Papali,
Hoskinsitutu and others. I've got Anton Signa. But it does
make a lot of sense. The only thing is Ardie's
family is based in Wellington. But at this point I
(14:00):
would say if Minor folds that that's where I think
he would.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
He would have been expecting to spend most of the
season in Auckland with more Waner Pacifica, so that's a
natural switch that he could go play for the Blues.
His brother Julian obviously is up in Auckland and playing
for Morena at the moment and living in Auckland, so
that's a possibility. Look pretty good in red and black
at the new Stadium. Yes, I thought, you know, I
(14:24):
don't think anything Blackett assigned for next year for the Crusaders,
so that they may be in the market potentially.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Some thought, somehow I can't see that penny ass.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
But there are other players obviously other than ard that A. Now,
well that's the question. You know, if you're a player
that is either on contract for twenty seven or off
contract with more Wana Pacifica, is your contract now null
and void with more Wanna Pacifica. You know, yes there
might be some new owners, but does that contract hold?
Are you now a free agent? Would you trust that
(14:55):
there could be someone to come through? So if you're
a player that is under contract, are you able to
break that contract because there's no ownership. So that's the
intriguing thing for me is that surely these players not
bound by the contracts that they may have in their
name for twenty seven and possibly beyond that.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Yeah, I think if you're a player in that vulnerable
situation right now, you are looking elsewhere and you would
have the right to secure your future by moving on.
The closest comparison is the Rebels. We saw them fold
and by and large a lot of those players are
snapped up by other Australian teams. Some of them went offshore,
(15:32):
but the pool of professionals of contracts in New Zealand
is going to shrink drastically if WINA falls over. The
other question is I don't know if it's a question
as such, but think back, this is from a results perspective,
things have changed drastically, haven't they. The financial concerns were
(15:52):
always there, but last year Wina were riding such a high.
They were on the cusp of the playoffs. Ardie Severe
was the best player in the competition named MVP before
the end of the regular season. The crowds were coming,
the vibes were there, and then it's just all unraveled
from a results perspective, from a momentum perspective, very quickly.
(16:16):
But it is the financials that's ultimately potentially going to
be there undoing.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
It is indeed, and you're right, they were riding high
last year. Artie was getting the wins, that big win
over the Blues at North Harbor Stadium. There are others
in Christy, the Hurricanes. Yeah, there was a real sense
of self belief last year that this team was building
and you know, obviously take our Artie sav and that's
always going to hurt things. But Look, if you've been
(16:44):
there this year, the crowds might have been bigger, the
results would have probably been better. I don't think they
would have been in the situation that they.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Are, but the ownership situation doesn't.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
That that doesn't change either, And they would have had
to pay Arti an extra season that maybe they couldn't
have afforded to, but knowing that he was only going
to be there for twenty five and twenty seven. So
there are all sorts of little things. But yeah, if
you're a player like a Miracle Filene, surely New Zealand
franchise is looking to him now. Player with leadership crudentials
some on international could slot in somewhere around the traps
(17:18):
in New Zealand franchise. He's a quality players and he's
he tupor Tayler, you know from Southland. Maybe the Highlanders
look at him for next year under Jammie Joseph.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yeah, I think his own franchise will we look at them.
I've heard whispers already that Miracle will probably go to Japan.
I don't know if Artie's potentially opened a few doors
up there for him, but whether he goes, you wish
him well. Don't you His pathway from an unknown talent
in Samoa to captaining a Super Rugby franchise and he's
(17:50):
a pin up boy now for someone in rugby.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
He was he was picked by more in the Pacific,
his talent, scouts of coaches at a combine and some
more out of club rugby and some more. He's where
it's worked well, but there are a number of issues
where it hasn't worked well for more in a Pacific.
Where does this leave Super Rugby for twenty twenty seven
and beyond that?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
It's another massive kicking the balls from the credibility. When
did the Rebels fold? Was it two years ago? Now?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah, it was twenty four? I think it was from
memory yea.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Yeah. See, you've had a couple of teams go under
in recent times and a competition that is struggling to
get fans through the door. I don't know why are
in a massive draw card, but an eleven team competition
wasn't ideal either, but it does nothing for your credibility
(18:45):
of your competition when you're losing teams, when there's uncertainty
around your competition, when you can't put together a draw
right now for next year, when there's questions about the
financial viability of the competition, the structure of it for
next year, How does it work, how does it look?
It doesn't do a lot for your brand, does it.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
No, it's certantly over the last ten years being in
a state of flux. And this is again another unwanted
chapter for Super Rugby. And this goes back to even
before the South African size left. You know, they tinker
with it so often, got to eighteen teams. It was bloated,
it was a horrible structure. There was too many teams
(19:28):
at one point. There was a confusing competition structure in
some ways. And now they have another thing to deal with.
Is it viable with ten teams going forward?
Speaker 3 (19:38):
It probably has to be. Look, the on field product
is actually pretty good. But the other problem with Super
Rugby is it's just highly predictable, isn't it. There's a
real lack of jeopardy. The top six right now is
the same as last year. You could probably pick the
semi finals before the season starts. There's the odd upset.
(19:58):
But even for you know, bolted on rugby fans, is
it generating the interest it needs?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
No, it's tired. It is as predictable. Look, you know,
we know that the top Sex by and load there
might be you know, one team that exits and one
team that comes through, but other than that, they're bolted on.
And they've been bolted on already and there are still
five six weeks of Super Rugby round robin to go.
I don't think that's healthy for the state of the competition.
(20:27):
And there is an inherent dip and interest, at least
on this side of the Tasman when New Zealand teams
are playing Australian sides, and that's because of the records
that New Zealand teams hold against the Australian sides. And
yeah they've picked up the odd win here or there,
but until you really do have the jeopardy in those games,
then it is going to continue to be a competition
(20:48):
where the derbies generate more, much more interest than the
Blues playing the war Tars, Blues playing the fours, Hurricanes
playing the you know, the Brumbies. Even even though that's
been a rivalry of sorts and there's been an up
and down results, it's.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Still I've had great results against the Zealand teams this year.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
But again, you sit on Tuesday. They couldn't win the camp.
They've been and everyone but the Hurricane. I stand by
there and this is where the competition is. So is
it feasible to continue Super Rugby?
Speaker 3 (21:15):
I think it has to be. But the other point
to make is it pretty much has to be a
ten team competition because when the Rebels folded, there was
all sorts of talk and speculation about where they would
get a twelfth team from. They investigated the Huguardias, they
looked at potential on the West coast of America. But
(21:37):
a startup team would almost potentially be the death kniel
of this competition. Bringing in a whipping boy is not
what this competition needs only for it to fall over.
I just can't see any viable option in that regard.
So it has to be a ten team competition.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Our friend of the podcast, Christy Dorian, brought yesterday in
The Australian that stand the Australian broadcast is a keen
on a conference model for Super Rugby, which would split
the teams into two pools. Obviously you'd have probably have
the Druid jumping in with the Australian sides, and that
conference model would mean that Australian sides more easily make
(22:19):
the playoffs and particularly home games, you'd probably well ten teams.
I'm not sure how many you'd qualify for the playoffs,
but potentially have to before we think so. But yeah,
I mean the guaranteed Australian sides you maybe have two
from each. That that again hurts the credibility I think
of the competition, double round robin could bigger possibility, but again,
as anyone you know, again, that would elongate the competition
(22:41):
by a little bit. You might be able eliminate a
bye week potentially or something there. But again it's is
anyone wanting to see the Highlanders play the Force in
Perth and Dunedin twice in the season or even you know,
even some of the you know games like internally in
New Zealand. Does it really hold muster to make that
(23:02):
a double round robin.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
I think there's a clash of ideals here that revolves
around revenue and broadcasters between what fan interests. I think
from my perspective, there only would need to be a
home and away once and it's a short hit, but
the interest is far more than dragging something out longer.
(23:26):
But from a broadcast and revenue perspective. They want more games,
So again there's that tension between interest and what would
engage fans, between where the money comes from.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah. Again, I mentioned this. Spoke with Limosopowanga, the former
All Blacks and some on International yesterday and new Stik
ZB and he said ten teams was a mickey mouse
competition for super rugby and promotion. And this is an
idea that comes up every so often of supercharged NPC competition. Now,
I think in fancy it sounds great. In reality it's
(24:01):
probably looks a little bit different because players think that
the All Blacks will be spread around. They'll all go
to their home franchise. As you have the Barrett brothers
playing for Tartanaki. You'll have players that grew up in
those regions going home and playing NPC. That only works
because they can do it for a short hit or
maybe outside their All Blacks commitments can align themselves with
an MPC team. It's a lot different for a competition,
(24:22):
and again the financials would be the question mark whether
that could generate the revenue required for New Zealand rugby.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Yeah, I don't mind the idea. I think there's a
real patriotism that comes from the NPC that super rugby
has never really been able to capture, maybe in its
early years, but certainly not probably for the last decade.
That there's not that staunch loyal following or honestly passion
(24:51):
that people have for their provinces. But a sole domestic
competition would not generate as much revenue because you don't
have multiple broadcasters, and maybe the players then wouldn't be
able to be paid as much because you're spreading them
around more, there's more team so that the pot is diluted,
and then maybe more of those top players are actually
(25:13):
looking off shore, so there are spin off effects. But
I think from a interest point of view, it would
probably be.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
More following yep, And now I think I think it
genuinely would be. I think there would be more following and.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
You could have a crossover with Australia at the end
of it.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah, and there's the blubb Board Cup potentially coming down
the line as well in a couple of years. But
it feels like that may be the recipe needed. Again,
usual on rugby likely to say the financials just don't
stack up to deliver this competition, But at some point
you've got to figure out what fans want and what
the interest levels would be and how much blood is
(25:52):
left in the stone I guess of these New Zealand
franchises and indeed the competition which is losing teams. So
it feels like Super Rugby is at a very delicate
and perhaps a wee bit of a tipping point, doesn't
it It does?
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Yeah, and look at that conference mode you talk about
the other thing we haven't discussed as an open free market.
So Australians can come to New Zealand's any New Zealand
can go to Australia and it's a free for all.
They can still be picked for their national teams. I
think that would boost the competitiveness of the competition. But
(26:31):
good luck telling the Crusaders to let Rich and Wong
and go when he comes home.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Or but again they could go to market and try
and pick up Joseph Suliki or whether it might.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Be that would generate massive interest in a draft alone
about where players end up. But does Joseph suiely you
want to go and live in christ Church?
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Wouldn't seems like a weird argument to make, Glenn. But again,
yet that this is The thing is that this is
another one that's been floated as a possibility. But again,
like you're not getting paid enough to go Yep, we'll
move over to that part of the world. You know,
even if the force of willing to pay overs to
(27:14):
get you, you've still got to pick up your life
and move over to Western Australia and that may not
suit you, your family, whatever it might be. Whereas we're
talking about this offline before we recorded, in North American sports,
you're getting paid so much money and you're at the
will of these team owners that you get told where
to go. And that's not the same in Southern Hemisphestal.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
It's not. No, you're comparing apples with oranges. We've discussed previously.
Maybe teams get to protect twenty six players and then
beyond that there's a draft. I think that's a viable option,
but I can't see a world in which it's a
complete free for all.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
No, no interesting times for a super Rugby will keep
across it here on Rugby Direct. Let's get into our
tipping us before we jump into the mail bag. Liam,
you have a two point lead in our tip and competition,
so good on you.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
I've also rocketed up the fantasy have you. I think
I'm in the top ten now.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Because I forgot to do my team a couple of
weeks ago.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
McKinsey, mate, Okay, yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Troubled captain Will Jordan two weeks ago against the drawer
and he distributed a lot that night, but didn't get
a lot of points. Unfortunately.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
It's going to be special when I take home the
championship winning Hurricanes jersey.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yeah. Well you can pay for it out of your
own pocket. Blues Highlanders kicked us off seven o five
on a Friday night on Gold Sport on iHeartRadio. Blues
belted last week at on Ree Stadium and Wellington. Do
they return home and get the win over the Hohinders?
Speaker 3 (28:39):
They do. The Cavalry's returning, aren't they Patrick two, Polo
two and others coming back for the Blues. I suspect
they do it pretty comfortably.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yeah, there's a definite steal to their full pack that
was missing last week when you put in Papaleisatusu into
the mix, and that elevates the starting side but also
elevates the bench because you can tweak it with those players.
They've gone with a six two split on the bench
as well, which is interesting.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Probably tells you where they're going to go at the Landers,
doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Yeah, I just can't see the Hunders coming out to
Aqui and winning unfortunately for them. I think they've run
their race. Wartors more onea Pacifica in Sydney on Friday night.
This is interesting, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (29:18):
And this is a bit a bit of feeling around
this one there and whether when a team loses a
coach or there's a big off field issue brewing and
Mowana's case, potentially counting down the days that they've got
a lot to play for they do.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Is there he willing to pick them? I'm not, no,
are you I'm going to pick them? I think there
will be fire in the bellley. The Wartors have been
up and down this season. Yeah, I think I think
there will be a bit of a motion around Winer Pacifica.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Yeah, I think so too, And there's probably a bit
of there might be a decent turnout.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yep for that as well. Yeah. I noticed Prince Harry's
going that was announced before more wide to shutdowns, so
it's another thing he's ruined. Prince Harry Chiefs Hurricane seven
oh five on Saturday night Game of the Round again
we had one D two larg this week. We've now
conspired to get one v two again in Super Rugby
the Chiefs and second Hurricanes and first.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Grand Final preview earlier calling it now.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
And it's later in the night when the Force play
the Crusaders mate Chiefs Hurricanes.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
Well, of course I'm going to go the Cane train,
but I'm a bit nervous for this game. I think
the Chiefs. Chiefs have found a bit of form, getting
a few bodies back, Wallace to Titi back on the
bench for the first time in a long time, Quintupire
to center in an all black trial matchup I think
against Billy Proctor. So very intrigued to see how that
(30:44):
plays out. But on top of my Canes mate.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Luke Jacobson is one hundredths as well for the Chiefs
to play for them. They've got No. Two po vai
this week, which I think is a big loss and
that's why I'm also going to go with the Hurricanes
at coming in and getting the win away. Brumby's Fiji
and Drew and Canberra. Hard to see the drawer going
to sunny Canberra and picking up points there isn't it?
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Yes, a bit of a contrast and which they won't enjoy.
So I'll go the Brumby Stair.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
And forced Crusaders. A lot of outs of the Crusaders injuries,
they would have Villian concussion protocols. Christian Leo Willy captaining
this week. George Bridges at center form the Crusader for
the Force. Zach Lomax is starting for them on the
right wing. They were disappointing in sloppy last week the
Crusaders and now they've lost some more bodies. Can you
(31:32):
can you see which way do you see this one going?
Speaker 3 (31:34):
I'm going to go the Force, he Earliott. Okay, that
Crusaders team is extremely lightweight. You've even gone no Hopem's
on the bench. I think it's a great risk after Yeah,
there's a massive injury outs, but I didn't like what
I saw for the Crusaders last week, and Perth can
be a bit of a bogey place to go. The
Force have been better this year, so big upset on
(31:57):
the cards.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
I'm going to the Crusaders, but I think it'll be tight.
Will Jordan out for three to five weeks so that
rules them out of the opener at the New Stadium
next week, but also some big derby's coming up, and
we've seen what the Crusaders without Will Jordan, not only
this year but previous couple of years. That might be
enough to draw a line through them this season if
they can't find a way to win without him and
the next week while then I can't see them winning
(32:19):
the comp.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Yeah, big outs. I think they'll go to them all
and try and use that against the Force. But I've
always liked the Force, Elliot.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, You've always been a big Force Gype. You bought
a jersey when we're over there last year, you had
the Force Camp everything like that. You can get in
touch and follow us in the fantasy as well, as
you mentioned on Rugby Direct a podcast. Time now though
to jump into the mail bag, producer Mark has slid
into the studio. Producer Mark, you have something out of
the mailbag for us, Yes, thank you, Elliott.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
This is coming from our man Floyd over in Sydney.
Thanks for emailing and Floyd through nine rounds of Super
Rugby less than seventy days away from that first All
Blacks test of the year. What's your Blacks fifteen looking
like for that first game at France. I believe even
christ isn't it. We will start with our guest and
(33:11):
studio Liampe.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Great.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Great to meet you and see you. Finally, it's right
great to great to be be back with a bionic arm.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah, a lot of a lot of equipment that you
brought in with you.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
It's a hell of a nick. Sorry, maybe we should
put that out there for the world to see it.
I'm going to go fairly stock standard Ethan the grouts,
Cody Taylor, Fletcher Newle with Tyler L. Lomax not playing
a lot this year to provide in great form locks interesting.
(33:46):
I'm going to back to Scott Barratt to come back
and get in some sort of form, so I'm gonna
leave him in the starter's capacity, with Fabian Hollands out
for the whole year. Patrick two Polocho hasn't played any rugby.
Josh Lord has been in good form. I'm gonna promote
Devin Flanders for his debut blindside. I think sue rugby
(34:07):
form has to count for up me. He's been knocking
on the door for a number of years. That blindside
role needs to be solved and I think Simon Parker
has been a bit indifferent this year for the Chiefs.
He doesn't offer as much as Devon from an offensive perspective.
Alreadie openside. I'm going Peter Luckeye at number eight. He
was brilliant last year. He's played predominantly eights. Cam Roy
(34:31):
guards ten is very tough. Rich Warner is not available yet,
so I'm gonna stick with Bowden. Not entirely convinced about that.
Jeordi at twelve, Quinti Pie at thirteen, Caleb Clark on
the left, and you know what, I'm going to pick Forehei.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Before he goes to newcast.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Yeah, get him in there, mates, he's not going I'm
putting the foot down right on the rights. And Will
Jordan at fullback.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Okay, I am similar across the board. Thank you Floyd
for your question. I think this first at least this
first run on team will be fairly standard. The squad
might have a few different players in there, but there's
so little time together for Dave Rennie. He's obviously got
a mission before the World Cup to get these players
(35:21):
up to speed, but he's got so little time with
him before the first Test that I think it'll be
about keeping things simple and we might see some more
variations as time goes on throughout the course of the year.
So my front row is the same de Groot, Taylor Newell.
My second row is slightly different. I've gone Lord and Barrett,
Scott Barrett, I believe. Yeah, I'm backing him to come
(35:41):
back and just int form. I could have gone to
it a lot too, but again he hasn't played with
Seeing him this weekend for the first time two po
Vis at blindside flanker for me.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Yeah, yeah, I'm not sold on him as a sex
I think he lacks a better pace.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
I'm not sold on him six either, but I'm not
sure about Flant like I really I think Flanders having
exceptional season. He would be in my squad at this point,
but not in this first team of the year. So
via open side, Flanka Satiti at number eight, Roy gard
A half back, Boden Barrowed at ten. Did think about Love,
but I think he's got to work his way and
see a bit more from him the Super Rugby season.
(36:15):
But I think we will see Rubin Love at ten
a bit later in the year for the All Blacks potentially.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Yeah, needs a crack there.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Yeah, and it's gonna interesting to see how Dave Rennie
approaches that. Caleb Clark and Caleb tungkytower to Caleb's and
my wings, midfielders barrot In Supier, and fullbackers Will Jordan.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Yeah, fairly similar.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Yeah. I think this first team, this is run on
team or the twenty three of the year, is going
to be fairly straightforward from Dave Rennie. I might be
completely wrong.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Yeah, I think in the wider squad there will be
some players that he picks on work great and character,
maybe some guys that are not necessarily on the radar.
We saw that during his time with the Chiefs, so
I think there will be a couple of surprises. But
from a starting perspective, you're right, they're not going to
have a lot of time and a lot of those
(37:04):
players picked themselves.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Yeah, and it'd be great to go, Yep, you're gonna
try Ruben Love at team. You're gonna do this, You're
gonna do that. You've still gotta beat France, and yeah,
it might be a second string France that comes, but
there is a job to do. We've got eh Lee
the following week and with all due respect to your
Italian heritage that is, and the way they've been playing,
they've been very good, but there can be some changes
for that week before you got Island in week three.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Yeah, and look, the South African Tour on the horizon
has those midweek games where you are going to have
a chance to give fringe guys game time, and that's
hugely beneficial because there's been too many examples Ruben Love
stands out of players who have sat idle and not
had enough opportunities in recent times at that level.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yeah. Absolutely, And look, I know the argument is made
around the lack of Tier two teams that the All
Backs have played over the last two years, but you
do need to text some risks at some point as well,
so we'll see how that unfolds. We might do a
proper all black squad draft or a picking a bit
closer to the announcer in which I believe is around
the end of Super Rugby as per that'll do us
(38:07):
for rugby, Dric. There is another question the Malbury that
I do want to get to, but Tim has been
asking around Ruben loveve Dang Carter. I do need to
run the stats, so I'm going to try and dig
into that before. You will get to that in a
week or two here on Rugby Direct, but you can
get in touch with us Rugby Direct at newstalk zb
dot co dot z's great to see you back in studio, Liam,
don't be a stranger.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
I won't be punching you with the left hand this year.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
No, that's right. You know we're going to be safe
from injury on tour, which is really good for me.
Thanks Mark Kelly for producing. We will see you back
after the weekend of Super Rugby. Enjoy your Rugby could
see Oh Heaven Health is her book today. Stay in
the game
Speaker 1 (38:46):
For more from News Talks EDB, listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcast on iHeartRadio.
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