The Aratere is on its way back to Wellington, but how was it that NZ First revealed the suspected cause of the grounding?
Also, is Labour actually looking at introducing an inheritance tax policy, and should Darleen Tana resign from Parliament?
Those were the questions for our politics panel, consisting of Housing Minister Chris Bishop and Labour's health and Wellington issues spokesperson Ayesha Verrall.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said b focusing in on the issues
that matter politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings, news Talk said bolazician.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Can you make a right decision for all of us?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
For all of us joining us for politics Thursday?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
This week is Housing Minister and Hunts South MP Chris Bishop, Good.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Morning, Chris, good mornings.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
Are we great?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Thank you? Beautiful day and paradise.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
The heart? Donner out here?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Are you at the heart.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
I'm out of the heart. That's the heart.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Donner, Get into the bee I have and do some work.
You're lazy. Barger Labor, Health and Willington issue spokesperson is
Shaveria goodbody is.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Sha wedding neck. Hi, Chris, I'm sure you.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Beat at the beehive of working away. I shall, haven't you.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
I had been on some sunny days, but my hope
for today is to get a jog in in the sunshine.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Wow, there you go. That sounds pretty good. Let's start
with our Ratichi oratari. I'll get it right eventually. Let's
start with the Ratarya was revealed last night that a
preliminary investigation found the raitary likely ran the ground because
the autopilot was engaged and couldn't be disengaged. I'll start
(01:29):
with you, I sure on this one. Can you believe this?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Look certainly a lot of questions about about how that
played out on the on the Faiy, which you know,
an investigations underway to get to the get to the
bottom of that. I can believe it because they're you know,
getting used to using new pieces of equipment in complex
situations is challenging. But anyway, let's let's find out what
(01:54):
the what the report says. But what I can't believe
is that the way we learned about this was a
tweet from New Zealand first, which seemed to try and
get out to little get this out of the in
the news a bit a bit earlier, with a claim
that someone was having a cup of coffee when this
(02:15):
when this happened, and that seems to me to be
pretty odd behavior within a government. And then when Christopher
Luxon's overseas on his big trip, him having to answer
questions about what his deputy prime minister is up to,
it's all a bit of a circus.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Really were acting prime minister at the time? Indeed, so
I mean it even becomes worse than that. Chris Bishop,
New Zealand first seemed to sort of reveal us on
social media. Why would they be muddling into the investigations,
and that is you know underway already.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Well there's there's quite a few roomors flying around Wellington,
you know, Wellington being well and harsher not all sorts
of start flying around town. I think the key point
is that the three separate investigations underway Transport Excellent Investoration Commission,
Maritime New Zealand and probably one other as well, so
we don't need to find out exactly what happened, and
(03:08):
no doubt the officials as through the inquiries we'll get
to the bottom of it. And you know that's really
important because what happened was you know, pretty bad obviously,
and no one what's to say it happen again, and you.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I should seem okay with it, you think there's just
a simple mistake that was made.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
I don't think it's okay at all. But you know,
these sorts of investigations remind me of the sorts of
investigations as a doctor I used to see when something
goes wrong in the healthcare setting and you're you know,
the sort of thing that's always stressed in those situations
is that human factors, like when a process is simple
and involves pressing a single button that can easily go wrong,
(03:48):
do tend to play a role in things. So I
guess I'm just saying I'm not surprised by that. But
as Chris says, the investigation is really important because unless
you do it and do it properly, you can't prevent
these sorts of things happening again. So once again, why
is the deputy Prime minister acting prime minister out there
trying to get ahead of a proper investigation.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, and Chris, it was five seconds, so it wasn't
like you just, you know, to hold the button down
five seconds. That's quite a long time. So obviously there's something.
I know you're going to say, we'll wait for the
investigation to come out, but it seems to be all
getting leaked out anyway. So you know, what do you
reckon has really gone on here?
Speaker 5 (04:26):
Well?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
I don't know. I don't know how to steer a ship.
I don't know how to run a boat. You know,
I am the last person you would want running a ferry,
So I don't know. I'm just a simple politician, so
who knows. Let's wait and see what exactly what it shows.
But you know, clearly doesn't sound great. You know, everyone
(04:46):
consider acknowledge that, and you know we've just got to
wait for the inquiries to come back. But like the
you know something up north with the transpower pylon that
cut the power of the North. You know it's you know,
the investigations underway on that as well. Just wait and see.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
All right, let's move on. MP Darling Tanner has resigned
from the Greens but remains an independent MP, at least
for the time being. Her husband's business was accused of
migrant exploitation and this investigation found out Tana a parent
appeared to know about the allegations, apparently because we haven't
seen the report. Do you think it's acceptable for China
(05:23):
to remain as an independent MP or should the Greens
trigger the Waker jumping legislation and get rid of it.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
Yeah, well, our view is migrant exploitation is unacceptable based
on what we know. We you know, Labour thinks Darlene
Tanner should resign and you know, when you think about
this Waker jumping legislation, which is where these discussions go to.
I don't think voters are voted for the Greens voted
for Darlene Tanner and so as a list MP, you know,
(05:52):
what's her claim to stay in Parliament after she's out
of the Greens.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah, Chris, I know the Greens opposed to the Walker jumping,
but so did National strongly opposed too. Is it something
that you're looking at repealing or you know, what do
you think is going to happen here?
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Well, it's a myth, there's no doubt about it. And
you know that they've had the support underway, expensive report
for that matter, that's taken longer to produce than she's
been an MP, I think one hundred and sixteen days
or something like that, as long as she was actually
a suthing MP. So it's miss He's no doubt about that,
(06:28):
and you know it's ultimately a matter for the Greens. Look,
I don't know exactly what's happened. I haven't read the report.
The report's not to me. You wouldn't expect that someone
that's been leaked, you know, it's made its way into
the public domain, but it looked missy and untidy. Ultimately,
what happens is for the Greens. I have actually quite
a degree of sympathy for for ICE's view, which is
(06:52):
that you know, with the exception of you know, close
friends and family, how many people vote for the Greens
on the basis that darling Tana would get into parliament. Well,
probably not that many. I'm not saying that to be disparaging,
but it's just the reality. And you know, now she's
basically been expelled from the Greens, so you know, time
will tell doesn't sound much she's going anywhere anytime soon,
(07:14):
as I understand it from the media reports. She disputes
the report and says she hasn't been allowed natural justice.
So it feels like this has got a bit of
a way to run. So being Missy for a while, I'd.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Say, yeah, I really want to know about the walker
jumping thing, whether you you know you strongly opposed it,
Are you going to do anything about it?
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Well, we we've historically opposed it, you know, for good reason.
I've got to say, we've got higher priorities on our
work program than repealing the walker jumping legislation. So we
don't have any immediate plans or or not taking any
sticks to do that, but then you know the National
Party historically opposed it, but you know, obviously the New
Zealand First Party is a strong supporter of it, and
(07:54):
we're a coalition government, so it's not an hour not
in our we're program.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I should the other MP's that have left the parties
that sort of remember the guy from why cant that?
The doctor that left? You guys, none of them seemed
to do any Sharma never done any sort of damage.
Shoud we just leave her in the background and let
it forget about it?
Speaker 4 (08:14):
Yeah? That, I mean you could say say that, and
just just to remind you that doctor Sharma was an
electric MP, which is a different situation than Darlene.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
But he didn't do any damage. He promised to do
all this damage to labor, he never did any.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
They've become irrelevant very quickly. But shouldn't the people of
New Zealand have the proportional Parliament that they voted for
in place? I think that's the argument, and that one
person doing You know, from the correspondence I get from
from voters, they're pretty eager to see all of their
MPs working hard. So one person being irrelevant and a
(08:51):
achieving nothing as an independent when they weren't voted for
as an independent I think would go against what many
people want.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Let's talk about inheritance tax. It was reported this week
that Labor is seriously considering it his party policy, looking
at the Islands model. First off, I shaw, is this
some think Labor is potentially really interested?
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Well, thanks for drawing this to my attention. I had
absolutely no idea about this proposal. So as a member
of the Labor front bench and sitting on Labour's Policy Council,
I can tell you unequivocally that it's not Zia. It's
not something that's caught my attention, and there'll be a
bunch of ideas circulating amongst the past.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Why would the media get hold of it? If they did,
you get it.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
From probably mischief making, it would be my guess.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
But have you asked around and if anyone know anything
about it?
Speaker 4 (09:39):
I have because I knew you'd ask me about this,
so I made some calls. So we don't know where
this where this has come from. But in any case,
what you will know is Labor has a democratic process
that we go through with our party members about deciding
our policy. There's absolutely no doubt that we all sorts
of ideas circulating out there, and maybe some z B
(10:02):
talk show hosts are actually secret members of the Labor
Party who know more about this than I.
Speaker 5 (10:06):
Have you heard anything about it, Chris, I was just
laughing at the idea that Nick, you'd be a member
of the Labor Party.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Can't afford it, buddy, I can't afford it.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Well, I think the thing with labor taxes, you can't
trust him, right, So you know, they might deny they're
looking at adherents tax, but they're definitely looking at some
sort of wealth tax or a capital aims tax or
something in that realm. And there's no doubt about that.
And I think I should would say that that's all
part of the mix, because Chris Sipkins gave a speech
at the start of the year in which he said, well,
(10:43):
everything's on the table again when it comes to tax reform.
So that's the last thing that is on the economy
needs at this time. Frankly, wish in need tax relief,
and that's what's going to happen at the end of
July when our tax package comes in and puts more
money in the back pockets of New Zealanders. That's what
we need. We need lower taxes, don't need more in
New Texas.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Yeah, well, see that. The problem with the priorities that
your government has put in place with that tax cut
is that having done that, my email inbox is full
of healthcare professionals writing to me saying that we can't
get our vacancies full because next the coming financial year's
budget or this financial year's budget for de Fatora is
(11:22):
so tight that after promising that you'll fell frontline jobs,
you now can't do that. And nurses and graduate nurses
are not being able to get the jobs in New
Zealand hospitals. And you saw on the TV news last
night that nurses are saying the state staffing in Northland
hospitals are unsafe because of what those tax cuts have
(11:43):
meant for our public services. So there is certainly a
cost to the approach that you have taken to tax
and it's being felt in our public services and there
will be more and more of that news coming out
over time.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Well, I just reject that. I mean, we have taken
a lot of resources in the back office across the
public service and redirected it to the front line, and
the increase in the health budget was significant in budget
twenty twenty four and a huge boost going into health,
including up the front line in.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
New Zealander is getting four percent less spent on their
health in real terms under this budget than compared to
the last. In real terms when you count for inflation
and those sorts of costs, you're not able to keep up.
And that's why the staffing situation is tight, and that's
why you're starting to hear these services from healthcare workers
who are being told that the gaps they were trying
(12:35):
to fill and are no longer able to be filled.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
So this is the sounds like the line that Labor
used to run is that National used to cut health spending.
Reality is a massive amount more of spind there going
into the health system, and we're very focused on cleaning
up the mess that was bequeased to us from the
last government, particularly in the healthcare system and shape readies
looking hard on that. So I just completely reject that
towards there.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Thanks Chris. Actually, the amount you have to put into
the health system is not keeping up with inflation or
population growth, and that is why healthcare workers coming forward
every day to say that they have gaps in their
system that are unsafe.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
That's it, Okay, let's move on. The Reserve Bank left
the OCEA unchanged at five point five percent yesterday, and
there's some hopes rates will ease by the end of
this year. Chris, when are you hoping for interest rates
to start coming down? To give us some hint.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Well, look at the first thing to acknowledge is that
it is really tough out there for people, and interest
rates are really biting heard, there's no doubt about that.
You have a lot of people refixing their mortgage. Is
that you know, we're the seven in front of it
who might have had a two or three in the past.
So I just want to acknowledge that that is really
tough for people, and it's having an economy wide effect.
We are dealing with the consequence of a massive increase
(13:53):
in spending under the last government eighty percent increase in
six years, allied to a very loose monetary policy during
the COVID years as well, and so that real pressure
on inflation. It peaked at seven point three percent, and
so the ocr has risen very quickly and that slowed
through to interest rates as well. The best thing we
can do as government is take the fiscal impulse out
(14:16):
of the economy and start to essentially have fiscal policy
to be a friend to monetary policy so that interest
rates can come down faster and sooner than they otherwise would.
And that's what the budget was all about, and you
saw some reflections on that and the statement of the
governor yesterday when he did the ocr update. You can't
(14:39):
remember the exact words in my head, but essentially an
indication that aggregate being taken out of the economy through
restraining restraint of government policy having an effect that is desired,
and so that's a good thing. So we're trying to
make sure that we act in concert with the reserve
banks that we can get interest rates down because that
is very, very important for the future that is in
(15:01):
an economy. But it is going to be tough for
you know, it's going to be tough for a while, unfortunately.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
I think, Chris, that your government could actually do more
to help, do you reckon They could actually, I don't know,
it just feels like that the government. We know, everyone's
told to hold on till next year. You know we're
going to get there next year. Meanwhile, you know, small
businesses are getting absolutely screwed in every way and it's
struggling to struggling to stay that keep your doors open.
(15:27):
And yet we don't have any help whatsoever. The government
aren't saying well, yes, we'll make sure you get through it.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Well, we are doing all that we can to get
through this period. So tax really for help with the
cost is living that comes at the end of July.
We're trying to strip costs out of the economy, redirect
government resources from the back office to the front line.
We're starting to get some of the ridism of the
red tape that is having an effect on the economy,
and so that we can once we get through this
(15:54):
next tough period, we can go for growth again with
lower interest rates, and that is very very important because
ultimately that's the sustainable way to list the economy and
lifting comes and lift our prosperity.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
I share you sing any of the economy rebounding, certainly
not in the businesses that I speak to or the
people in households that I that I hear from. It's
pretty tough out there. And as you mentioned, Nick, the
you know, support for businesses and households is being pulled away.
So in Wellington We're very aware of the many innovative
(16:27):
businesses that grants through Callahan and NZTE are being those
opportunities for developing those innovative businesses are being being lost,
and for the individual's prescription charges are back half priced,
public transporters is gone, and rents continue to go up.
So it's it's tough all round, and it's important to
be empathetic about that. But the thing that gets me
(16:51):
is that the government. You know, I'd be sympathetic to
Chris's point if only the sort of whole story hung together.
It's it's not you know, many economists argued against the
government's tax cuts because it was coming at this time
when inflation was high, and therefore there was a risk
of prolonging this period of high interest rates because of that.
(17:13):
So I think it's not really not really the case
that the government's doing everything it can to bring inflation down.
It prioritized its tax cuts much higher than that.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Prime Minister's in the US this week Washington today, in
or if to San Francisco today he's meeting with Nato Leedis,
who's already met with Canada's justin Turou this morning to
do this morning Chris, what is the government hoping to
achieve from this trip.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Well, I think it's very important that the Prominence was
invited to attend the NATO some and I think anyone
who takes a cursory look at what's going on in
the world stage, whether it's geopolitical tensions through the Pacific
or you know, persons appalling war on Ukraine, will realize
that it's we're in troubled times geopolitically and strategically, and
(18:02):
so benezelland to be there playing our part of part
of the conversations about dealing with that those issues is
I think very important. So he's over there. I think
it's a good thing here. He's obviously got a range
of meetings with a range of world leaders, some of
whom he'll have talked to on the phone, but some
of whom he'll meet in person for the first time.
(18:22):
You know, it's only been seven months or so, so
as Prime Minister and as I understand it, he's got
a swin through the West coast of the United States
and the way back, which is much more of a
business focus, very very important for New Zealand. That connection
into the West coast the United States is important. So
I think, you know, we as a government have really
tried to lift our engagement on the world stage. I'm
(18:44):
not saying that previous governments haven't, but we really tried
to make sure that we put our best foot forward
on the world stage, from the Prime Minister down and
obviously Winston Peters has been offshore a lot since since
he became Foreign Minister as well.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
I sure these Zealand government's committed another sixteen million to Ukraine.
That brings our total commitment to about one hundred and
thirty million. From you guys, imagine what could be done
with that money if it stayed in New Zealand. Are
we contributing too much money to Ukraine?
Speaker 4 (19:13):
No, I wouldn't put it that way. That conflict in
Ukraine is extremely threatening to the world New Zealand is it,
and we have to make sure that we're playing our
part to uphold the international rules based order. And that
means that Vladimir Putin cannot decide to invade a sovereign
sovereign nation without there being a fight back. So you know,
(19:36):
obviously wars have a tremendous humanitarian costs and it would
be much better to see diplomacy prevail, but we shouldn't
also let there be impunity for invading a sovereign and
democratic nation with a democratically elected government. Look, I agree
with Chris those for that like NATO being there is
(20:01):
important to New Zealand, but it is really important that
we do put a best foot forward there. I think
once a great Christopher Luxen has shown himself to be
somewhat gaff prone in those settings, saying that he's reporting
to journalists that he's met everyone from the German chancellor
down to the iceland Prime minister. That really isn't the
(20:21):
sort of thing you should do to suggest that all
nations are not equal. As a small country, ourselves are
saying that the implying that people leaders of other cut
small countries are sort of less important doesn't get us anywhere.
It makes the job that we have to do as
a country so much harder. He really needs to up
(20:42):
his game in that respect.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Oh, cut on, that's I think being prettychurelish, to be honest,
I mean, you're trying to see something that's not there.
I mean I can't I can't believe that. I mean
that the really is there are big countries and there
are small countries, and Germany's a lot bigger than Iceland.
I mean, I think I don't know. I haven't seen those.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
It sounds a lot like a C list to comment
to me, Chris, I don't think it's a good Oh.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
I think you're I think you are being you are
trying to politicize something that is I think that you've
just been cheerless. To be honest, that's ridiculous. I mean,
I haven't seen the comments reported, but I suspect what
he was saying is that, you know, he's managed to
meet with a whole range of different countries began small.
Speaker 4 (21:23):
You know, life could have said that, he could have
said that, couldn't they Well, well, instead he says things
about clisters and bottom feeders and nah, you know.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
You just you just you never missed the opportunity to
have a go. And I think you know, I think
people can see it for all of those. Frankly, that's Chris.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Can I just quickly ask, because I know you've got
to go, Can I just quickly ask you if you
think we're paying spending too much money in Ukraine? I
mean one hundred and thirty million dollars as I said
in my in trades. There's a lot of hip operations,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
It is? But you know, so as standing up for
democracy and standing up for a rules based international order,
and you know, there comes a time when, you know,
the Western nations you have to stand up and you
have to stand up for your values and that comes
with money. And you know what Vaalamir Putin has done.
(22:15):
You know, it's the first hot land war in Europe
in a large number of years in which a one
sovereign nation has literally invaded another nation across a land border,
completely unprovoked, for no reason other than essentially conquest and
(22:37):
some misguided sense that the Ukrainian people and the land
mass as part of Greater Russia, that that is, that
is Putin's view, and at some level you have to
stand up and say, I'm sorry, but the way international
law works and the way morality works is that is wrong.
(22:58):
And Ukraine to have given them that gives them great credit.
Has fought back and has done much better fighting back
than I think many people thought.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Because they've got so much money from around the world.
I mean, that's why before back.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Isn't it if they have And of course New Zealand's
never going to be able to match Germany in the
United States and France's contribution because we're a smaller country.
But all we can do is contribute, you know, where
we can, and that's what we've done, and so I
think the contributions are entirely appropriate, and I'm actually really
proud of the fact that the Zilam's doing that as
part of the collective effort from Western countries to stand
(23:32):
up against Russia's territorial aggression. I'm really proud of it.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Thank you very much for joining us. Chris Bishop and
Aishaverel have a great day, enjoy Wellington on a beautiful
Armie Day.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks There'd Be Wellington from nine to am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said b focusing in on the issues
that matter politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings, news Talk said bolazician.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Can you make a right decision for all of us?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
For all of us joining us for politics Thursday?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
This week is Housing Minister and Hunts South MP Chris Bishop, Good.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Morning, Chris, good mornings.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
Are we great?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Thank you? Beautiful day and paradise.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
The heart? Donner out here?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Are you at the heart.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
I'm out of the heart. That's the heart.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Donner, Get into the bee I have and do some work.
You're lazy. Barger Labor, Health and Willington issue spokesperson is
Shaveria goodbody is.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Sha wedding neck. Hi, Chris, I'm sure you.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Beat at the beehive of working away. I shall, haven't you.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
I had been on some sunny days, but my hope
for today is to get a jog in in the sunshine.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Wow, there you go. That sounds pretty good. Let's start
with our Ratichi oratari. I'll get it right eventually. Let's
start with the Ratarya was revealed last night that a
preliminary investigation found the raitary likely ran the ground because
the autopilot was engaged and couldn't be disengaged. I'll start
(01:29):
with you, I sure on this one. Can you believe this?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Look certainly a lot of questions about about how that
played out on the on the Faiy, which you know,
an investigations underway to get to the get to the
bottom of that. I can believe it because they're you know,
getting used to using new pieces of equipment in complex
situations is challenging. But anyway, let's let's find out what
(01:54):
the what the report says. But what I can't believe
is that the way we learned about this was a
tweet from New Zealand first, which seemed to try and
get out to little get this out of the in
the news a bit a bit earlier, with a claim
that someone was having a cup of coffee when this
(02:15):
when this happened, and that seems to me to be
pretty odd behavior within a government. And then when Christopher
Luxon's overseas on his big trip, him having to answer
questions about what his deputy prime minister is up to,
it's all a bit of a circus.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Really were acting prime minister at the time? Indeed, so
I mean it even becomes worse than that. Chris Bishop,
New Zealand first seemed to sort of reveal us on
social media. Why would they be muddling into the investigations,
and that is you know underway already.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Well there's there's quite a few roomors flying around Wellington,
you know, Wellington being well and harsher not all sorts
of start flying around town. I think the key point
is that the three separate investigations underway Transport Excellent Investoration Commission,
Maritime New Zealand and probably one other as well, so
we don't need to find out exactly what happened, and
(03:08):
no doubt the officials as through the inquiries we'll get
to the bottom of it. And you know that's really
important because what happened was you know, pretty bad obviously,
and no one what's to say it happen again, and you.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I should seem okay with it, you think there's just
a simple mistake that was made.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
I don't think it's okay at all. But you know,
these sorts of investigations remind me of the sorts of
investigations as a doctor I used to see when something
goes wrong in the healthcare setting and you're you know,
the sort of thing that's always stressed in those situations
is that human factors, like when a process is simple
and involves pressing a single button that can easily go wrong,
(03:48):
do tend to play a role in things. So I
guess I'm just saying I'm not surprised by that. But
as Chris says, the investigation is really important because unless
you do it and do it properly, you can't prevent
these sorts of things happening again. So once again, why
is the deputy Prime minister acting prime minister out there
trying to get ahead of a proper investigation.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, and Chris, it was five seconds, so it wasn't
like you just, you know, to hold the button down
five seconds. That's quite a long time. So obviously there's something.
I know you're going to say, we'll wait for the
investigation to come out, but it seems to be all
getting leaked out anyway. So you know, what do you
reckon has really gone on here?
Speaker 5 (04:26):
Well?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
I don't know. I don't know how to steer a ship.
I don't know how to run a boat. You know,
I am the last person you would want running a ferry,
So I don't know. I'm just a simple politician, so
who knows. Let's wait and see what exactly what it shows.
But you know, clearly doesn't sound great. You know, everyone
(04:46):
consider acknowledge that, and you know we've just got to
wait for the inquiries to come back. But like the
you know something up north with the transpower pylon that
cut the power of the North. You know it's you know,
the investigations underway on that as well. Just wait and see.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
All right, let's move on. MP Darling Tanner has resigned
from the Greens but remains an independent MP, at least
for the time being. Her husband's business was accused of
migrant exploitation and this investigation found out Tana a parent
appeared to know about the allegations, apparently because we haven't
seen the report. Do you think it's acceptable for China
(05:23):
to remain as an independent MP or should the Greens
trigger the Waker jumping legislation and get rid of it.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
Yeah, well, our view is migrant exploitation is unacceptable based
on what we know. We you know, Labour thinks Darlene
Tanner should resign and you know, when you think about
this Waker jumping legislation, which is where these discussions go to.
I don't think voters are voted for the Greens voted
for Darlene Tanner and so as a list MP, you know,
(05:52):
what's her claim to stay in Parliament after she's out
of the Greens.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah, Chris, I know the Greens opposed to the Walker jumping,
but so did National strongly opposed too. Is it something
that you're looking at repealing or you know, what do
you think is going to happen here?
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Well, it's a myth, there's no doubt about it. And
you know that they've had the support underway, expensive report
for that matter, that's taken longer to produce than she's
been an MP, I think one hundred and sixteen days
or something like that, as long as she was actually
a suthing MP. So it's miss He's no doubt about that,
(06:28):
and you know it's ultimately a matter for the Greens. Look,
I don't know exactly what's happened. I haven't read the report.
The report's not to me. You wouldn't expect that someone
that's been leaked, you know, it's made its way into
the public domain, but it looked missy and untidy. Ultimately,
what happens is for the Greens. I have actually quite
a degree of sympathy for for ICE's view, which is
(06:52):
that you know, with the exception of you know, close
friends and family, how many people vote for the Greens
on the basis that darling Tana would get into parliament. Well,
probably not that many. I'm not saying that to be disparaging,
but it's just the reality. And you know, now she's
basically been expelled from the Greens, so you know, time
will tell doesn't sound much she's going anywhere anytime soon,
(07:14):
as I understand it from the media reports. She disputes
the report and says she hasn't been allowed natural justice.
So it feels like this has got a bit of
a way to run. So being Missy for a while, I'd.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Say, yeah, I really want to know about the walker
jumping thing, whether you you know you strongly opposed it,
Are you going to do anything about it?
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Well, we we've historically opposed it, you know, for good reason.
I've got to say, we've got higher priorities on our
work program than repealing the walker jumping legislation. So we
don't have any immediate plans or or not taking any
sticks to do that, but then you know the National
Party historically opposed it, but you know, obviously the New
Zealand First Party is a strong supporter of it, and
(07:54):
we're a coalition government, so it's not an hour not
in our we're program.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I should the other MP's that have left the parties
that sort of remember the guy from why cant that?
The doctor that left? You guys, none of them seemed
to do any Sharma never done any sort of damage.
Shoud we just leave her in the background and let
it forget about it?
Speaker 4 (08:14):
Yeah? That, I mean you could say say that, and
just just to remind you that doctor Sharma was an
electric MP, which is a different situation than Darlene.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
But he didn't do any damage. He promised to do
all this damage to labor, he never did any.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
They've become irrelevant very quickly. But shouldn't the people of
New Zealand have the proportional Parliament that they voted for
in place? I think that's the argument, and that one
person doing You know, from the correspondence I get from
from voters, they're pretty eager to see all of their
MPs working hard. So one person being irrelevant and a
(08:51):
achieving nothing as an independent when they weren't voted for
as an independent I think would go against what many
people want.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Let's talk about inheritance tax. It was reported this week
that Labor is seriously considering it his party policy, looking
at the Islands model. First off, I shaw, is this
some think Labor is potentially really interested?
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Well, thanks for drawing this to my attention. I had
absolutely no idea about this proposal. So as a member
of the Labor front bench and sitting on Labour's Policy Council,
I can tell you unequivocally that it's not Zia. It's
not something that's caught my attention, and there'll be a
bunch of ideas circulating amongst the past.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Why would the media get hold of it? If they did,
you get it.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
From probably mischief making, it would be my guess.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
But have you asked around and if anyone know anything
about it?
Speaker 4 (09:39):
I have because I knew you'd ask me about this,
so I made some calls. So we don't know where
this where this has come from. But in any case,
what you will know is Labor has a democratic process
that we go through with our party members about deciding
our policy. There's absolutely no doubt that we all sorts
of ideas circulating out there, and maybe some z B
(10:02):
talk show hosts are actually secret members of the Labor
Party who know more about this than I.
Speaker 5 (10:06):
Have you heard anything about it, Chris, I was just
laughing at the idea that Nick, you'd be a member
of the Labor Party.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Can't afford it, buddy, I can't afford it.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Well, I think the thing with labor taxes, you can't
trust him, right, So you know, they might deny they're
looking at adherents tax, but they're definitely looking at some
sort of wealth tax or a capital aims tax or
something in that realm. And there's no doubt about that.
And I think I should would say that that's all
part of the mix, because Chris Sipkins gave a speech
at the start of the year in which he said, well,
(10:43):
everything's on the table again when it comes to tax reform.
So that's the last thing that is on the economy
needs at this time. Frankly, wish in need tax relief,
and that's what's going to happen at the end of
July when our tax package comes in and puts more
money in the back pockets of New Zealanders. That's what
we need. We need lower taxes, don't need more in
New Texas.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Yeah, well, see that. The problem with the priorities that
your government has put in place with that tax cut
is that having done that, my email inbox is full
of healthcare professionals writing to me saying that we can't
get our vacancies full because next the coming financial year's
budget or this financial year's budget for de Fatora is
(11:22):
so tight that after promising that you'll fell frontline jobs,
you now can't do that. And nurses and graduate nurses
are not being able to get the jobs in New
Zealand hospitals. And you saw on the TV news last
night that nurses are saying the state staffing in Northland
hospitals are unsafe because of what those tax cuts have
(11:43):
meant for our public services. So there is certainly a
cost to the approach that you have taken to tax
and it's being felt in our public services and there
will be more and more of that news coming out
over time.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Well, I just reject that. I mean, we have taken
a lot of resources in the back office across the
public service and redirected it to the front line, and
the increase in the health budget was significant in budget
twenty twenty four and a huge boost going into health,
including up the front line in.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
New Zealander is getting four percent less spent on their
health in real terms under this budget than compared to
the last. In real terms when you count for inflation
and those sorts of costs, you're not able to keep up.
And that's why the staffing situation is tight, and that's
why you're starting to hear these services from healthcare workers
who are being told that the gaps they were trying
(12:35):
to fill and are no longer able to be filled.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
So this is the sounds like the line that Labor
used to run is that National used to cut health spending.
Reality is a massive amount more of spind there going
into the health system, and we're very focused on cleaning
up the mess that was bequeased to us from the
last government, particularly in the healthcare system and shape readies
looking hard on that. So I just completely reject that
towards there.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Thanks Chris. Actually, the amount you have to put into
the health system is not keeping up with inflation or
population growth, and that is why healthcare workers coming forward
every day to say that they have gaps in their
system that are unsafe.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
That's it, Okay, let's move on. The Reserve Bank left
the OCEA unchanged at five point five percent yesterday, and
there's some hopes rates will ease by the end of
this year. Chris, when are you hoping for interest rates
to start coming down? To give us some hint.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Well, look at the first thing to acknowledge is that
it is really tough out there for people, and interest
rates are really biting heard, there's no doubt about that.
You have a lot of people refixing their mortgage. Is
that you know, we're the seven in front of it
who might have had a two or three in the past.
So I just want to acknowledge that that is really
tough for people, and it's having an economy wide effect.
We are dealing with the consequence of a massive increase
(13:53):
in spending under the last government eighty percent increase in
six years, allied to a very loose monetary policy during
the COVID years as well, and so that real pressure
on inflation. It peaked at seven point three percent, and
so the ocr has risen very quickly and that slowed
through to interest rates as well. The best thing we
can do as government is take the fiscal impulse out
(14:16):
of the economy and start to essentially have fiscal policy
to be a friend to monetary policy so that interest
rates can come down faster and sooner than they otherwise would.
And that's what the budget was all about, and you
saw some reflections on that and the statement of the
governor yesterday when he did the ocr update. You can't
(14:39):
remember the exact words in my head, but essentially an
indication that aggregate being taken out of the economy through
restraining restraint of government policy having an effect that is desired,
and so that's a good thing. So we're trying to
make sure that we act in concert with the reserve
banks that we can get interest rates down because that
is very, very important for the future that is in
(15:01):
an economy. But it is going to be tough for
you know, it's going to be tough for a while, unfortunately.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
I think, Chris, that your government could actually do more
to help, do you reckon They could actually, I don't know,
it just feels like that the government. We know, everyone's
told to hold on till next year. You know we're
going to get there next year. Meanwhile, you know, small
businesses are getting absolutely screwed in every way and it's
struggling to struggling to stay that keep your doors open.
(15:27):
And yet we don't have any help whatsoever. The government
aren't saying well, yes, we'll make sure you get through it.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Well, we are doing all that we can to get
through this period. So tax really for help with the
cost is living that comes at the end of July.
We're trying to strip costs out of the economy, redirect
government resources from the back office to the front line.
We're starting to get some of the ridism of the
red tape that is having an effect on the economy,
and so that we can once we get through this
(15:54):
next tough period, we can go for growth again with
lower interest rates, and that is very very important because
ultimately that's the sustainable way to list the economy and
lifting comes and lift our prosperity.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
I share you sing any of the economy rebounding, certainly
not in the businesses that I speak to or the
people in households that I that I hear from. It's
pretty tough out there. And as you mentioned, Nick, the
you know, support for businesses and households is being pulled away.
So in Wellington We're very aware of the many innovative
(16:27):
businesses that grants through Callahan and NZTE are being those
opportunities for developing those innovative businesses are being being lost,
and for the individual's prescription charges are back half priced,
public transporters is gone, and rents continue to go up.
So it's it's tough all round, and it's important to
be empathetic about that. But the thing that gets me
(16:51):
is that the government. You know, I'd be sympathetic to
Chris's point if only the sort of whole story hung together.
It's it's not you know, many economists argued against the
government's tax cuts because it was coming at this time
when inflation was high, and therefore there was a risk
of prolonging this period of high interest rates because of that.
(17:13):
So I think it's not really not really the case
that the government's doing everything it can to bring inflation down.
It prioritized its tax cuts much higher than that.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Prime Minister's in the US this week Washington today, in
or if to San Francisco today he's meeting with Nato Leedis,
who's already met with Canada's justin Turou this morning to
do this morning Chris, what is the government hoping to
achieve from this trip.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Well, I think it's very important that the Prominence was
invited to attend the NATO some and I think anyone
who takes a cursory look at what's going on in
the world stage, whether it's geopolitical tensions through the Pacific
or you know, persons appalling war on Ukraine, will realize
that it's we're in troubled times geopolitically and strategically, and
(18:02):
so benezelland to be there playing our part of part
of the conversations about dealing with that those issues is
I think very important. So he's over there. I think
it's a good thing here. He's obviously got a range
of meetings with a range of world leaders, some of
whom he'll have talked to on the phone, but some
of whom he'll meet in person for the first time.
(18:22):
You know, it's only been seven months or so, so
as Prime Minister and as I understand it, he's got
a swin through the West coast of the United States
and the way back, which is much more of a
business focus, very very important for New Zealand. That connection
into the West coast the United States is important. So
I think, you know, we as a government have really
tried to lift our engagement on the world stage. I'm
(18:44):
not saying that previous governments haven't, but we really tried
to make sure that we put our best foot forward
on the world stage, from the Prime Minister down and
obviously Winston Peters has been offshore a lot since since
he became Foreign Minister as well.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
I sure these Zealand government's committed another sixteen million to Ukraine.
That brings our total commitment to about one hundred and
thirty million. From you guys, imagine what could be done
with that money if it stayed in New Zealand. Are
we contributing too much money to Ukraine?
Speaker 4 (19:13):
No, I wouldn't put it that way. That conflict in
Ukraine is extremely threatening to the world New Zealand is it,
and we have to make sure that we're playing our
part to uphold the international rules based order. And that
means that Vladimir Putin cannot decide to invade a sovereign
sovereign nation without there being a fight back. So you know,
(19:36):
obviously wars have a tremendous humanitarian costs and it would
be much better to see diplomacy prevail, but we shouldn't
also let there be impunity for invading a sovereign and
democratic nation with a democratically elected government. Look, I agree
with Chris those for that like NATO being there is
(20:01):
important to New Zealand, but it is really important that
we do put a best foot forward there. I think
once a great Christopher Luxen has shown himself to be
somewhat gaff prone in those settings, saying that he's reporting
to journalists that he's met everyone from the German chancellor
down to the iceland Prime minister. That really isn't the
(20:21):
sort of thing you should do to suggest that all
nations are not equal. As a small country, ourselves are
saying that the implying that people leaders of other cut
small countries are sort of less important doesn't get us anywhere.
It makes the job that we have to do as
a country so much harder. He really needs to up
(20:42):
his game in that respect.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Oh, cut on, that's I think being prettychurelish, to be honest,
I mean, you're trying to see something that's not there.
I mean I can't I can't believe that. I mean
that the really is there are big countries and there
are small countries, and Germany's a lot bigger than Iceland.
I mean, I think I don't know. I haven't seen those.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
It sounds a lot like a C list to comment
to me, Chris, I don't think it's a good Oh.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
I think you're I think you are being you are
trying to politicize something that is I think that you've
just been cheerless. To be honest, that's ridiculous. I mean,
I haven't seen the comments reported, but I suspect what
he was saying is that, you know, he's managed to
meet with a whole range of different countries began small.
Speaker 4 (21:23):
You know, life could have said that, he could have
said that, couldn't they Well, well, instead he says things
about clisters and bottom feeders and nah, you know.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
You just you just you never missed the opportunity to
have a go. And I think you know, I think
people can see it for all of those. Frankly, that's Chris.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Can I just quickly ask, because I know you've got
to go, Can I just quickly ask you if you
think we're paying spending too much money in Ukraine? I
mean one hundred and thirty million dollars as I said
in my in trades. There's a lot of hip operations,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
It is? But you know, so as standing up for
democracy and standing up for a rules based international order,
and you know, there comes a time when, you know,
the Western nations you have to stand up and you
have to stand up for your values and that comes
with money. And you know what Vaalamir Putin has done.
(22:15):
You know, it's the first hot land war in Europe
in a large number of years in which a one
sovereign nation has literally invaded another nation across a land border,
completely unprovoked, for no reason other than essentially conquest and
(22:37):
some misguided sense that the Ukrainian people and the land
mass as part of Greater Russia, that that is, that
is Putin's view, and at some level you have to
stand up and say, I'm sorry, but the way international
law works and the way morality works is that is wrong.
(22:58):
And Ukraine to have given them that gives them great credit.
Has fought back and has done much better fighting back
than I think many people thought.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Because they've got so much money from around the world.
I mean, that's why before back.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Isn't it if they have And of course New Zealand's
never going to be able to match Germany in the
United States and France's contribution because we're a smaller country.
But all we can do is contribute, you know, where
we can, and that's what we've done, and so I
think the contributions are entirely appropriate, and I'm actually really
proud of the fact that the Zilam's doing that as
part of the collective effort from Western countries to stand
(23:32):
up against Russia's territorial aggression. I'm really proud of it.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Thank you very much for joining us. Chris Bishop and
Aishaverel have a great day, enjoy Wellington on a beautiful
Armie Day.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks There'd Be Wellington from nine to am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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