July 11, 2024 • 33 mins
US President Joe Biden will be gone as Democratic nominee by the end of next week, Childfund CEO Josie Pagani and Infrastructure NZ CEO Nick Leggett are picking.
The pair joined Nick Mills for Friday Faceoff this week, where they talked about Biden's future after another day of gaffes, what the Greens should do about Darleen Tana, and the future of the Interislander.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk Said B dissecting the week sublime and
ridiculous Friday face off with Quinovic Property Management a better
rental experience for all Call eight hundred Quinovic.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
So I don't care about you. Rib Jotting has Friday
face off. This week is former hood you doo a
mayor and Infrastructure in New Zealand CEO Nick Legan, Good morning, Nick,
Good morning neck you sometan. Have you've been overseas?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
I have been overseas actually learning about infrastructure in Europe
and the United Kingdom.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Ill you spent a bit of time some tanning as well.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Really boring Netflix series doesn't look like.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
And of course you would have heard her already because
she can't wait to be introduced. She's got a button
whenever she can. There's Child Fund CEO Josie mcgaraney. I
said him in the morning. Good morning, jose Good morning Nick.
I said it in the morning Briefing show. At least
I won't have to say more than seven words in
the whole hour with Lick legg At Joseph mcgardy of
the show, why don't you.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Go to the toilet.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Ethan is laughing like you wouldn't believe in the next
room at that.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Well, that's so funny. Well he knows both. If you
well enough to know that there's going to be no chance,
I'd say, I mean, you're three of us. Is we're
fighting for you?
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Questions?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Nick, Okay, let's start with Joe Biden. It's been further
calls this week. I mean it's even got more modern
than that, but further cause this week for him to
step down, including from George Clooney. Just an hour ago
he introduced Ukane's president Zelenski has president putin, that's all
sort of stuff that I would do, Josie, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
No, you would never do that, Nick, I mean, that's
just terrible, isn't it. And he quickly corrected himself. But
the damage has done his reputation. Is what's so tragic
about this is he's been a really successful, quite transformative,
even heroic president, and he's shattering his legacy. He haspitically
of infrastructure and by that, you know, we mean roads.
(02:10):
We mean I've just been in the states that the
federally funded ice state roads are amazing. So he's pumped
money into infrastructure, roads, broadband, climate, you know, renewable energy,
as well as actually gas talking of running out of
gas in New Zealand. So he's done a hell of
a lot, and he's kept inflation. He's got inflation down
(02:30):
there more just created jobs. So he's thrashing this legacy.
He's just blowing it up by behaving like the mad King.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Nick. Can he possibly win this election? And will he
be there?
Speaker 3 (02:45):
I look, I becked. I'm a strong Biden supporter. I
you know, you remember how he came into the nomination.
It was all very last minute. He won the North
Carolina primary and people thought he was dead in the water,
and then he came on and he took the presidency.
I have faith in Joe Biden. I think he's a
(03:05):
great human. I think he's been, like Josie, a very
good president. But when I saw that debate, I you know,
I was on a plane before it took off, waiting
and I was clenching myself in my seat, and there
were three people, two other people across the aisle who
were all we were all watching, and we were reacting
in the same way. He in my view, has to
(03:25):
go for the good of his legacy, but also because
I think people have forgotten in the States the reality
of a Donald Trump presidency. Joe Biden has not caused
the chaos. He hasn't been in the media. He's been
doing the job. And we need we they need a
candidate who can act.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
We need we do.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
The world needs, the world needs, and this is about
I think this is a fight for democracy and.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Well as a leader of the free will it was.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Exactly but we need a candidate that can articulate and
remind people the reality of a Trump presidency. When I
saw Trump speaking very skillfully in that debate about abortion
and women's reproductive rights, talking about and I knew who he.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Was talking to.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
He was talking to moderate Republican women in the suburbs,
and he was saying, look, I'm actually quite liberal on this.
I believe an abortion in some instances, but not the
Supreme Courts put it back to the States, and that's
for the States to decide.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Very smart.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Kamala Harris, as if she'd been on that stage, would
have destroyed him on that point. Biden sat there lamely, and.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
She was very strong. Can I just interrupt because she
was really strong. After it wasn't she. After that, she
came out and I looked at her because I've you know,
I've read all the stuff about her being a control
freak and no one likes her and she's all that,
you know, you know, I saw her in the interview
afterwards and I went, wow, I.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Thought, she's been hiding under a bushel and has been
hidden under a bushel?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Can she wondering about?
Speaker 4 (04:56):
Yeah, well, she's not popular, but she's more popular at
the moment than Biden.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Just is that just because she's a powerful woman.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
I think that I think the issue around if you
look at her, she was a prosecutor. She was a
prosecutor in California, so she was a very tough crime
I tough on, tough on crime democrats. So she was
trusted as the kind of Democrat like Biden who talks
about you know, the working class, about family, about flag,
about crime and being tough on crime and so on,
(05:25):
safe streets, etc. And then during the back in twenty twenty,
when she was running as president for the nomination against Biden,
she kind of lurched to the left around identity politics
and so on. She started talking about herself as you know,
I was bussed to school. You know, I'm a black
woman and so on, and she played the card that
(05:46):
where she basically lost I think a lot of trust
and sounded a bit inauthentic because she had been this, really,
I'm a black woman who's a prosecutor of criminals, and
I make no apology for that. And then suddenly she
was playing the sort of identity politics stuff. So the
problem with her is that she started to sound inauthentic.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
You know what I believe in politics. We know what
my thought is on that, and I'll come to you
on this one, Nick, is that we love female politicians,
but we don't like tough female politicians. You know, just
under dun was the you know, your friend next door thing.
You know, we just don't like those tough woman politicians,
do we? Or I got that wrong?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Look, I think I've given some thought to that question,
because you know, Hillary Clinton was a woman. Evidently, in
the United States, despite the recent history with civil rights,
it was easier for a black man to be elected
president than a woman. Hillary came with bag, so let's yeah,
(06:46):
so let's not and she won three million more popular votes.
I agree with Josie on the Harris story. I think Harris,
if she is herself, she has a chance.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Now.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
I saw polling overnight come out. She's two points ahead
of Trump in a couple of the latest polls. This
is possible, right, and we're the Democrats have to go now.
They're in disarray. They have to go for the possible.
And to me, she looks far more of alive even way.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
It's a roll of the dice the way. But I
just saw you one quick story. I've just been in Atlanta.
I was in My family live in Atlanta, my youngest
brother and my stepmother and my dad was there for
many years. And I was there for the debate and
the debate was in Atlanta at CNN. And on the
night of the debate, I went to a bar which
where my dad used to go, very working class bar.
(07:35):
It's full of like ceiling to floor pictures of firefighters, cops.
Every Democratic president since JFK, when they come to Atlanta,
they do a pilgrimage to pay homage to working class
in Atlanta and they go to that bar. They shake hands,
they have a beer. It's every time Obama's been there.
(07:55):
I've met Bill Clinton there one year when I was there.
This year, I went thinking, oh, I'm going to go
and I'll see Biden. He didn't come. So he is
wrapped in this Michael Jackson level bubble where they do
not want to expose him to the public. And that's
not you cannot win a campaign.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Well they can't not they can't expose them.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
They can't, So you can't win if he can't campaign.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
I felt very strongly last campaign, when he was in
his basement campaigning, that that inoculated him from the same
thing because it didn't wear down his energy. He was
able to do it from home and Trump was so
badly under himself. And so I actually I agree with
you completely. I think this has been a problem for
a while. Look, as I say, I'm a big Biden fan,
(08:39):
me too, but they have to and Joseie's right, it's
risk it's risky the way my view is just guid
and will not win.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
What's your gut feeling. Do you reckon, you'll stand, do
you reckon you'll go to the end?
Speaker 4 (08:51):
I think the drums are beating, and I think this
time next week he will have gone.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
I agree, Wow, this time next week, God.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Nick and I agree, he's probably gonna.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
I think we'll let me and Harris will do it.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
D Arduin, I think I hope she doesn't do it,
just Sinder.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Remember she came from nowhere. She came from nowhere. This
was the other thing.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
I think.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Kamila Harris is the vice president of the United States,
so she's not really coming from nowhere, and she's got.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Yeah, but it's let's treat her as a serious candidate
and someone who's more than capable of being the president.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
You know what they should do though, what they should
do is have a very quick two week primary session
where you get other candidates and you debate. So then
Kamala Harris will have the mandate.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
She doesn't need a coronation.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
She cannot be Yeah, she can't be just coronated by
the Biden camp. Whether they'll do that or not, I
don't know, but they could.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Let's talk Darling Tanna, she's resigned from the Green Party
but remains in Parliament, saying the investigation into whether she
knew about migrant expectation, was her in her husband's business
or so called in her husband's business, nothing's been Actually
we don't know anything yet. Well, I mean, it's a
story that we don't know anything. She said it was unfair. Josie. Uh,
you know had your struggles with parliamentary people in your lifetime.
(10:11):
I mean, how do you feel about this right now?
Do you think Darling should go? Should she stay? What
would you do in the same situation.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
She should go? Absolutely. I mean it's unacceptable to be
an MP and refuse to front up. I know she
says she feels that she's been she hasn't had a
chance to put her side of the story. We'll put
your side of the story. But also the Greens, you know,
I think they have handled this badly. It should never
have lasted as long as it's lasted one hundred and
sixteen days or something. I mean, they're talking about privacy,
(10:39):
the need to tell people who involved before they publish
only the executive summary of this report. So we don't,
as you say, Nick, we don't really know what's in
the report.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
We don't know anything, do we. We know that there's
some guy that's standing up and saying I was not
looked after I was dusted, and that it's all we
get it, Yeah, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
What kind of accent was that that?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
I don't know it was supposed to be Mexican.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
But the one thing I would say is that when
you look at when you sort of look above this
and look at it, because you know, next just been
in the UK elections in the UK, I got back
from the US, and you look at this darling ton
of story and you go, for goodness sake, what is
it with our politicis? And I look at it from
a you know, trying to see what is going on
in the Green Party, and there is this element of
(11:20):
holier than thou in the Greens where they think they're
better people and what this shows, and what the Julian
Genta debacle showed, and the Elizabeth Kitty ketty and even
going back as far as Matilia tore they have as
many nutcases and narcissistic egos in their party as any
other political party. So I think we'd feel more sympathetic
(11:41):
for them if they weren't quite so holier than thou
that they are somehow better people. And the thing the
Greens need to learn is the world isn't divided into
good and bad people. It isn't divided into right and wrong.
There are all sorts of areas are gray, and you
get more done when you understand that the world is
complicated and doesn't have simple solutions.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Nick Leggett, what are your thoughts on the Darling Tana saga.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
I think Josie stolen my speech.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Look, oh god, she's not a board me. Now, both
of you you can talk about is how you've been
to America. One's been to Europe. I had I had
Friday night at the Ridges Hotel at the airport.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Oh well it's a good hotel, actually.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Very good hotel. But I'm saying you don't have to
be so skytery about your overseas.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
I think politics gets really it is.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
It's down in the We're down in the weeds and
in the gutter. And look, I'm a bit of a
purist where it comes to electoral systems. So that's my
nerd zone. And we've got a proportional parliament, you know,
that's the m MP right. People voted for the Greens
and for the Greens to get a certain amount of seats.
Darlene Tanner has she's left the Green she's no longer
(12:49):
a member of the Green Party. She should resign so
the Greens can have their full allocation. And I agree
with Josie every workplace. Every party has its fair share
of challenges and troubles with people, and I think the
Greens need to actually front foot that and they're not
perfect and humans and that things are not always right
(13:12):
inside that tent. And yeah, it's it's I mean, I
sort of I feel for any party that goes. So
that's because every party has had it right, every party
in Parliament's had this kind of thing happen.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
I think she should stay, do you, I think we've
seen nothing. Bring the stats out, show us the stats,
let us make the decision. But until we know, we
don't know. There's two sides to every story. Her husband
might have done. If she hasn't gone.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
To the she's over days, and to tell her that
it hasn't.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Gone to the employment tribune, well, you know, don't know
the severity of it.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
This is this is politics rather, this isn't like a
workplace relationship thing. So you're right. If she was an employee,
she's and you're entitled to natural justice and you go
through a performance review process and it may take one
hundred and fifteen days. But this is politics, right. She's
been elected as a List Green MP, not as her
(14:12):
Darlene Tanner and she's she's had one hundred and sixteen
days to be able to tell.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Her that's not her fault? Is it her fault any time?
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Anytime?
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Come out? All right, okay, all right, maybe maybe I.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
Got the thing on that what I mean about the
Greens being holier than that. Look at how they attacked
someone like Shane Jones. I mean, some of the stuff
that was coming out was really personal, really nasty. So
if they're going to ask us for sympathy when things
go wrong with Goryet Scaraman, with Julian Jenta, fine, but also.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
You've only got an hour'readly got an hour to mention
those names. I mean, you can go on forever.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
I know, I know, but just don't divide the people
into good people in bad world into good and bad people.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
So you both strongly feel she should go next list,
next person up on the list comes in and get
on with your life. Goodness, will they do that? Under
the walker jumping that's so anti If she doesn't resign, just.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Goes to Josie's point, though, doesn't it like the Greens, Oh,
we don't believe in wucker jumping legislation, because you know,
we believe in the sanctity of democracy and parliamentary elections
and now you know, principal meets practice and they're not.
They are mutually exclusive. The Greens should bite the bullet
and you know, call on the Wucker jumping legislation and
(15:25):
and and bring the next person on the list in,
because that's the other thing. The Greens need to be
a bit more pragmatic. I mean, I think most New
Zealanders would have more than a kernel of sympathy with
some of the Green agenda. And yet they limit themselves
by bye bye, by sort of isolating themselves on the
political spectrum on many issues. Here's a chance to actually say,
(15:46):
lo lot, we've stuffed up, but actually and we can
see there's some benefit of the Wacker jumping legislation, and
we're going to do things differently from now on.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
And they don't have to go that far to say
that we agree with anything in the Walker jumping. They
don't have to. They sort of do if they're gonna, well,
they can say we don't like it, but we want
to get rid of us, so we'll we'll do it
to do that, cann't they?
Speaker 4 (16:06):
They They do what they do have to do, and
what actually most political parties have to do is get
much better at working at selecting people on their list
and doing a due diligence process about who goes on
their list, because you wouldn't have had to google much
to see that there was a problem here with that
business and with her husband, and that she was involved
in that business. Who knows what the report says, but
(16:26):
you should have They should have done better due diligence.
And they're not the only political party who doesn't do
enough of that.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
A story that's kind of I don't know. It's been
been part of our psych for about a year now
after it was a tragic accident happened. Johnsonville Rugby Club
says says that it loses its liquor license. The club's
application to renew its license is opposed by the licensing
inspector and the family of Cass Maguire who was killed
by a drunking, speeding driver Jason Toutama, who had just
(16:56):
left the rugby club. Anyway, long story short, they're up
for their license. Their license has been opposed. Nick Leggett,
what consequences should the club, or if any, should the
club face because of one of their members and it
wasn't like he jumped from bar to bar. He played
a game of rugby, went into the rugby club and
then drove home and had this horrific accent.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Look, I think this is a this is a tragic case,
and that you know that that young mother that was
that was that was hit and left injured on the
road and then she subsequently died. It's an appalling thing.
And we want the law to come down harshly on
on on offenders in these cases. And then you look back,
(17:40):
You've got to look at that link in that chain
and that chain of responsibility as they talk about, and
there is surely some kind of responsibility that goes back
to a drinking establishment. We need to we do need
to lock in responsibility. I don't think the club should
lose its license. I agree with you Nick, that there
(18:05):
should be some stringent ramifications that that increase host responsibility.
But these you know, these these places help fund clubs.
And what I say is it's not about people when
it shouldn't be about people getting pissed on a Saturday
after the game. But if you think about a rugby
club or any sports club actually doing great work in
(18:27):
the community, it's about bringing the kids through. It's about
opportunities that keep kids off the streets, get them into sport,
get them fit, get them as part of a team
with some discipline. That's the stuff we've got to remember.
It's it's it's all those those things. So I will
defend community organizations and clubs, you know, to keep operating,
(18:49):
but they also need to take responsibility, so it is
a fine balance. The other thing I would say is
often these license discussions are led by public bodies who
want to, you know, stop alcohol being sold. It's it's
often safer for our cohold be sold in the suburbs
so people are closer to home. I do not share
(19:11):
the wowser prohibition mentality of some people in public entities
that want to stop all things, all alcohol being sold,
because ultimately, when you drive alcohol underground, it pops up
in places you can control it even less. So, you know,
we've got a culture of too much drinking in this country,
(19:33):
and actually Key we are drinking less, and young people
are drinking less. We've still got a long way to go,
and a lot of that comes, in my view, from
prohibition in the thirties, the culture that suppressed alcohol. Then
we had the six o'clock swell where bars closed at
six o'clock at night. That's not where we should be going.
There has to be a balance and we need some
common sense. This isn't appalling case, and there are other
(19:57):
appalling cases like this, and alcohol is at the root
of a lot of problems in our society. But we
don't solve those problems by driving it underground. We sold
of it by having it open and getting people, all
people involved in the sale and the distribution of alcohol
to take more responsibility.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Josie, your thoughts.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
On this, Yeah, And I'm sure for the family, you
know what they're looking to see. I know that they
don't want this license renewed, but actually, you know, I'm
sure that for them if they could see more done
about exactly what you talk about, this drinking culture that
we have in New Zealand. And I think you're right
it dates back to the prohibition period. I'm a twenty
one year old son who said he's training to do
(20:36):
his yardie and I go, why would you do that? Son?
You know, it's just and I don't understand that everyone
takes videos and then a laugh because you throw up
because you can't possibly consume that mych alcohol. How do
we get to a state where that's somehow your twenty first.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Call thing so still a thing?
Speaker 4 (20:53):
Oh my gosh, okay, thanks yeah, my family.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
But I think also here what you've got, You've got
a confusion. And I do understand that as a parent,
this is one This is a parent's nightmare, and I
understand their anger and their desire to see something change.
I think there's a confusion here about licensing, which shouldn't
be about health and safety and workplace safety, which is separate,
separate legislation for that. I think licensing is really, isn't it, Nick.
(21:26):
I mean, you know, it's a environment that you're licensed in.
Are there too many schools around? Is it in an
area where there's vulnerability? And yes, you can use it
as a stick you take away your license of your
behave valley, but it should I think there's a danger
of us thinking of licensing as stick and carrot around
health and safety. We've got health and safety legislation, so
(21:47):
use the health and safety legislatre.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Well.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
I was at a meeting with the City Council, Public
Health and Police yesterday. They want to object to one
of our restaurants. It's had a license for twenty one years,
never had any sort of con any sort of telling
off anything. They want to reject it because they don't
want any licenses in a certain areas. So how do
(22:10):
you how do you work that one out?
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Well, I did say to you before, Nick, perhaps a
bit too subtly. You know, it's it's these public entities
that have kind of power. Power, but also this idea
that you just ban stuff and every problem goes away,
and actually it doesn't. What we want to do is
to force responsibility. We've got to bring things out in
(22:35):
the open. And I recognize that most people who drink
do so in a moderate way, responsibly, responsibly, that should
be the rule of thumb. And we deal with the
problems using evidence and expertise. And actually a lot of
these problems are cultural. We challenge it, We challenge it.
(22:55):
You don't challenge a culture by pushing things. It's a
typical repressed key we thing to do to push every
ban everything, stop everything. That is not the way we're
going to do.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
It's something that we have never done. On Friday, face
off before. We're going to change the topic. Because Nick Leggett,
who has hosted the show before and well known to
all of you, said he wants to talk about something,
so we're going to talk about it, and Josie said, yes,
that's a good idea. TV One can reveal an independent
advisory group has recommended to ministers that Kiwi Rail no
longer run the cook straight fairies now. Don't get too excited.
(23:29):
They don't want to sell it off and bring it
back to the private which they did many years ago
and then had to end up buying it back off
them because it was a problem. So they just want
a new government entity to run the fairies. Now. This
is the first we've heard from this independent inquiry, which
is costing us a lot of money. Nick, you're obviously
reasonably passionate about this. You would have read what we've
seen on the media. What do you think? Yeah, look
(23:51):
what I wanted.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
The reason I thought we should talk about this is
because I do detect a high degree of public untrust.
You know, the people I talk to, they're interested in
the fairies and you know, we kind of feel a
sense of ownership here in Wellington. I reckon, but you
know that the fairies are kind of somehow, you know,
ours a little bit and we do. We worry about
the connection. People here understand that the fairies carry freight
(24:16):
to and from the South Island. You know, it is
an extension of State Highway one and this the ruptures
we've seen in recent months are they're challenging. The point Nick,
I think that I want to make first of all,
is you know there's actually a private service in the
form of Blue Bridge that runs I think very well
(24:38):
across the cock Strait.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Would it be an advantage to us though, Josie, if
we had two privates going at each other and dropping
the price and competing against each other, would that be
an advantage for us or not?
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Yeah? I mean we don't know whether we necessarily hear
of everything that goes wrong on the Blue Bridge ferries
right when we do hear about Interne and ferry because
it's key we rail because it's publicly owned. I mean,
certainly we haven't had Blue Bridge. I mean Bluebridge ferries
they just take a ferry out and do the maintenance.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
And you know how many do they have? We do here?
Speaker 3 (25:06):
We do hear about it because actually there were two
fairies out on dry dock, I think, one from each service,
and so we do. There is sometimes a focus on that.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
And I mean, certainly ki we Rail have dropped the
ball big time on this. You know, when the last
government wanted to spend way too much money on the
on the wrong yeah, on the wrong choice. You know,
the internal and fairies make what they don't make a profit.
I mean they basically their revenue is limited and they
wanted and the government, Labor government wanted to spend billions
(25:37):
on it, so that was crazy. Just didn't have a
return on investment. But you know the real issue here
is that Key we Rail have dropped the ball right,
They're not. They haven't managed the maintenance of it. They
haven't mad, they haven't said right, we're going to get
the Toyota Corolla version of a replacement ferry. They've gone,
They've allowed the government, the last Labor government to go.
(25:57):
We want the Ferrari, you know, we want the best fairies.
We want to rebuild the peer.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
That we want a Ferrari for taking our family of
six children across the way.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
They should have gone to the government. We want the
Toyota Corolla version replacement. Get us some decent ferries that
aren't going to break down. That's all we need and
that coming. We don't need a role, We don't need
trains to be able.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
To do we do. They not take trains across anyway.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
They take what's in trains across, but not the trains itself.
So this is the point, right, we talk about in
the infrastructure industry a lot. We need to more bipartisan
approach to the way we make decisions in this country,
less ideologically driven, less party political, because that way, when
a government changes, you don't get the toing and froing.
(26:43):
The reason KiwiRail are in this dilemma is because they
were directed to build a rail enabled ferry with the
cost of which was really signific much more signal, and
then the cost of the port side infrastructure huge, far
more than it needed to be for the services that
we require. That was politically driven, and we were the
(27:04):
only because it was rail and because it was I
mean they were because because.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
The labor gument made it clear they don't, you know,
they don't prioritize roads and trucks over public transport and
trains and so on because of climate right, and I
think where Kiwi Rail fell down is that that was
a politically driven decision the government has a right to
do that. What a board should be doing in Kiwi
Rail is pushing back on that and saying, look at
(27:29):
the evidence, look at the data. You do not need
It wasn't a Ferrari version of a ferry that has
a train that goes on it and a train that
comes off it.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
We were the only country in the world building rail
enabled fairies. There is a message there right from the
market idea.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I mean, you're an infrastructure, you know what they need
to do. Give me in thirty seconds, because I want
to come back to Josie to give her version to
what's needed right now.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
A reliable, resilient, safe service between Picton and Wellington that
carries freight and often freight and time, food, perishable goods
as well as other goods and people that both the
freight moving sector and the wider New Zealand economy and
(28:18):
passengers and travelers can rely on. That's what we need
and that doesn't have to be gold standard. It absolutely
has to be safe primarily. But if you look at Bluebridge,
they come in and they lower it down on the
back deck and the cars and the trucks come off.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
It's not rock that.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Compare that to the sophisticated, very expensive rail enablement that
was being proposed. We couldn't afford it. We need reliability,
and actually we need some contesting. We need a bit
of competitiveness and a bit of tensure.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
And I think, and this comes back to what it
was saying about what we need is a cross party
view of what we're doing with our infrastructure in New Zealand.
And one of this to come back to Biden. One
of the successes that Biden had was that he managed
to get a massive infrastructure bill ross the Congress and
Senate in America and got the Republicans on side. So
(29:12):
you know, that's one of one of his big legacy successes,
which he's busy, you know, shooting himself on the foot with. Now,
that's what we need here and next absolutely right, you
know we don't. We need to look at what is
the what is the problem we're trying to solve here,
and it's reliability. They could go out now and lease
the basic versions of a replacement fairy and make sure
(29:33):
that people feel safe because quite frankly, I'm not sure
I feel entirely safe getting here.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
That's the next that's the next question We asked ourselves
this morning in the newsroom, would you actually feel safe
helping on fairy Well, that's a question that's you know,
it's one of the worst straits in the world, and
you know the Friday let's go hot, so not, Josie
BEGANNI start with that one.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Okay, my heart is this recent study I read about
people who drink black coffee are more likely to exhibit
psychopathic traits, which made me think that people who order
a quad shot non fat vanilla soy light wet with
caramel drizzle are more likely to be their victims.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
They deserve to be if they're ordering that, josey.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
Am, I not hot is a more serious one. You
know the organization I work for, Child Fund, we're working
in the Pacific. There are kids in the Pacific. We
go on holiday there, guys, it's our shared home. There
are kids in the Pacific, about one out of fourteen
dying of dirty water. So we've got a massive campaign.
It's a fixable problem. We can't solve everything in the world,
but we can actually do something about clean water in
(30:41):
the Pacific. And it's our home too. So yeah, Child
Fund got orged and said.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Thanks Jose Thanks Josey.
Speaker 4 (30:49):
Dare you to mock me on that one? It is
actually something I think if you can do something about it,
why not.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Come on, Nick, leg it, give us your hots and
not so my hot is because you forced me to
do this, nake you.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
I actually I didn't force you to do anything. I
want to make it I have not forced you to
do anything. And I've known you for about seven or
eight years and you're not a person that can be
forced to do anything you don't want the very don't.
Don't try and sell that to our whole vulnerable listeners.
I'm very obliging.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
The thing is, I'm pretty also not that great at
preparing these things. But my hot is I went on
to study tours, one to Europe, one to the UK.
As I've said at the start of the show, the
one we went to Dublin and talked to a whole
lot of officials and businesses in Ireland about how that
country has just gone through the roof the most productive
(31:38):
country in the world, basically at the top of the OECD,
the highest level of education. Now you look back fifty
years they weren't and this is a model for New Zealand.
This country needs to decide what it is going to be,
what it's trying to be, what is our vision or
the country we're trying to become. And it's not really
on show for me. And I think we've got to
(31:58):
decide that as a country, and then we've got to
take the steps. You know, Ireland power. You know that
they massively invest in education in the seventies. Thirty five
percent of Irish people have a master's degree. They've lowered
their corporate tax right, they've welcomed foreign direct invests, a
lot of.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
Foreign and they've got a lot of entrepreneurial support R
and D. That's a hot and are not hot?
Speaker 2 (32:20):
What you're not hot? Are not hot?
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Is it's going to be car parks? Those car parks
that have been leased to wetter. It is wetter, isn't.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
It, Sir Peter Jackson, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Stone.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Streets, Stone Streets, Now, I know that back in the day.
You know, I can understand why that decision was made.
It's about helping a business in a suburban part of Wellington.
Good show, but they should be paying a market rate.
Parking is not free and shouldn't come cheap. We need
to better price all of these things. Including our roads
(32:54):
by the way, just to get the infrastructure line in there.
But people won't like the idea that a business is
getting a free run.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
And they should have asked the people who live in
those streets.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Right, I've got to go now. Thank you, Joseph, you're
running out the door. You put your jacket on, you've
got your handbag. Nick Naggett, thank you very much, appreciate
you both. Love you both, have a great weekend. Catch
you next time.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news Talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk Said B dissecting the week sublime and
ridiculous Friday face off with Quinovic Property Management a better
rental experience for all Call eight hundred Quinovic.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
So I don't care about you. Rib Jotting has Friday
face off. This week is former hood you doo a
mayor and Infrastructure in New Zealand CEO Nick Legan, Good morning, Nick,
Good morning neck you sometan. Have you've been overseas?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
I have been overseas actually learning about infrastructure in Europe
and the United Kingdom.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Ill you spent a bit of time some tanning as well.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Really boring Netflix series doesn't look like.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
And of course you would have heard her already because
she can't wait to be introduced. She's got a button
whenever she can. There's Child Fund CEO Josie mcgaraney. I
said him in the morning. Good morning, jose Good morning Nick.
I said it in the morning Briefing show. At least
I won't have to say more than seven words in
the whole hour with Lick legg At Joseph mcgardy of
the show, why don't you.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Go to the toilet.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Ethan is laughing like you wouldn't believe in the next
room at that.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Well, that's so funny. Well he knows both. If you
well enough to know that there's going to be no chance,
I'd say, I mean, you're three of us. Is we're
fighting for you?
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Questions?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Nick, Okay, let's start with Joe Biden. It's been further
calls this week. I mean it's even got more modern
than that, but further cause this week for him to
step down, including from George Clooney. Just an hour ago
he introduced Ukane's president Zelenski has president putin, that's all
sort of stuff that I would do, Josie, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
No, you would never do that, Nick, I mean, that's
just terrible, isn't it. And he quickly corrected himself. But
the damage has done his reputation. Is what's so tragic
about this is he's been a really successful, quite transformative,
even heroic president, and he's shattering his legacy. He haspitically
of infrastructure and by that, you know, we mean roads.
(02:10):
We mean I've just been in the states that the
federally funded ice state roads are amazing. So he's pumped
money into infrastructure, roads, broadband, climate, you know, renewable energy,
as well as actually gas talking of running out of
gas in New Zealand. So he's done a hell of
a lot, and he's kept inflation. He's got inflation down
(02:30):
there more just created jobs. So he's thrashing this legacy.
He's just blowing it up by behaving like the mad King.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Nick. Can he possibly win this election? And will he
be there?
Speaker 3 (02:45):
I look, I becked. I'm a strong Biden supporter. I
you know, you remember how he came into the nomination.
It was all very last minute. He won the North
Carolina primary and people thought he was dead in the water,
and then he came on and he took the presidency.
I have faith in Joe Biden. I think he's a
(03:05):
great human. I think he's been, like Josie, a very
good president. But when I saw that debate, I you know,
I was on a plane before it took off, waiting
and I was clenching myself in my seat, and there
were three people, two other people across the aisle who
were all we were all watching, and we were reacting
in the same way. He in my view, has to
(03:25):
go for the good of his legacy, but also because
I think people have forgotten in the States the reality
of a Donald Trump presidency. Joe Biden has not caused
the chaos. He hasn't been in the media. He's been
doing the job. And we need we they need a
candidate who can act.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
We need we do.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
The world needs, the world needs, and this is about
I think this is a fight for democracy and.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Well as a leader of the free will it was.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Exactly but we need a candidate that can articulate and
remind people the reality of a Trump presidency. When I
saw Trump speaking very skillfully in that debate about abortion
and women's reproductive rights, talking about and I knew who he.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Was talking to.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
He was talking to moderate Republican women in the suburbs,
and he was saying, look, I'm actually quite liberal on this.
I believe an abortion in some instances, but not the
Supreme Courts put it back to the States, and that's
for the States to decide.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Very smart.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Kamala Harris, as if she'd been on that stage, would
have destroyed him on that point. Biden sat there lamely, and.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
She was very strong. Can I just interrupt because she
was really strong. After it wasn't she. After that, she
came out and I looked at her because I've you know,
I've read all the stuff about her being a control
freak and no one likes her and she's all that,
you know, you know, I saw her in the interview
afterwards and I went, wow, I.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Thought, she's been hiding under a bushel and has been
hidden under a bushel?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Can she wondering about?
Speaker 4 (04:56):
Yeah, well, she's not popular, but she's more popular at
the moment than Biden.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Just is that just because she's a powerful woman.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
I think that I think the issue around if you
look at her, she was a prosecutor. She was a
prosecutor in California, so she was a very tough crime
I tough on, tough on crime democrats. So she was
trusted as the kind of Democrat like Biden who talks
about you know, the working class, about family, about flag,
about crime and being tough on crime and so on,
(05:25):
safe streets, etc. And then during the back in twenty twenty,
when she was running as president for the nomination against Biden,
she kind of lurched to the left around identity politics
and so on. She started talking about herself as you know,
I was bussed to school. You know, I'm a black
woman and so on, and she played the card that
(05:46):
where she basically lost I think a lot of trust
and sounded a bit inauthentic because she had been this, really,
I'm a black woman who's a prosecutor of criminals, and
I make no apology for that. And then suddenly she
was playing the sort of identity politics stuff. So the
problem with her is that she started to sound inauthentic.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
You know what I believe in politics. We know what
my thought is on that, and I'll come to you
on this one, Nick, is that we love female politicians,
but we don't like tough female politicians. You know, just
under dun was the you know, your friend next door thing.
You know, we just don't like those tough woman politicians,
do we? Or I got that wrong?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Look, I think I've given some thought to that question,
because you know, Hillary Clinton was a woman. Evidently, in
the United States, despite the recent history with civil rights,
it was easier for a black man to be elected
president than a woman. Hillary came with bag, so let's yeah,
(06:46):
so let's not and she won three million more popular votes.
I agree with Josie on the Harris story. I think Harris,
if she is herself, she has a chance.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Now.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
I saw polling overnight come out. She's two points ahead
of Trump in a couple of the latest polls. This
is possible, right, and we're the Democrats have to go now.
They're in disarray. They have to go for the possible.
And to me, she looks far more of alive even way.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
It's a roll of the dice the way. But I
just saw you one quick story. I've just been in Atlanta.
I was in My family live in Atlanta, my youngest
brother and my stepmother and my dad was there for
many years. And I was there for the debate and
the debate was in Atlanta at CNN. And on the
night of the debate, I went to a bar which
where my dad used to go, very working class bar.
(07:35):
It's full of like ceiling to floor pictures of firefighters, cops.
Every Democratic president since JFK, when they come to Atlanta,
they do a pilgrimage to pay homage to working class
in Atlanta and they go to that bar. They shake hands,
they have a beer. It's every time Obama's been there.
(07:55):
I've met Bill Clinton there one year when I was there.
This year, I went thinking, oh, I'm going to go
and I'll see Biden. He didn't come. So he is
wrapped in this Michael Jackson level bubble where they do
not want to expose him to the public. And that's
not you cannot win a campaign.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Well they can't not they can't expose them.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
They can't, So you can't win if he can't campaign.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
I felt very strongly last campaign, when he was in
his basement campaigning, that that inoculated him from the same
thing because it didn't wear down his energy. He was
able to do it from home and Trump was so
badly under himself. And so I actually I agree with
you completely. I think this has been a problem for
a while. Look, as I say, I'm a big Biden fan,
(08:39):
me too, but they have to and Joseie's right, it's
risk it's risky the way my view is just guid
and will not win.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
What's your gut feeling. Do you reckon, you'll stand, do
you reckon you'll go to the end?
Speaker 4 (08:51):
I think the drums are beating, and I think this
time next week he will have gone.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
I agree, Wow, this time next week, God.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Nick and I agree, he's probably gonna.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
I think we'll let me and Harris will do it.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
D Arduin, I think I hope she doesn't do it,
just Sinder.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Remember she came from nowhere. She came from nowhere. This
was the other thing.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
I think.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Kamila Harris is the vice president of the United States,
so she's not really coming from nowhere, and she's got.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Yeah, but it's let's treat her as a serious candidate
and someone who's more than capable of being the president.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
You know what they should do though, what they should
do is have a very quick two week primary session
where you get other candidates and you debate. So then
Kamala Harris will have the mandate.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
She doesn't need a coronation.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
She cannot be Yeah, she can't be just coronated by
the Biden camp. Whether they'll do that or not, I
don't know, but they could.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Let's talk Darling Tanna, she's resigned from the Green Party
but remains in Parliament, saying the investigation into whether she
knew about migrant expectation, was her in her husband's business
or so called in her husband's business, nothing's been Actually
we don't know anything yet. Well, I mean, it's a
story that we don't know anything. She said it was unfair. Josie. Uh,
you know had your struggles with parliamentary people in your lifetime.
(10:11):
I mean, how do you feel about this right now?
Do you think Darling should go? Should she stay? What
would you do in the same situation.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
She should go? Absolutely. I mean it's unacceptable to be
an MP and refuse to front up. I know she
says she feels that she's been she hasn't had a
chance to put her side of the story. We'll put
your side of the story. But also the Greens, you know,
I think they have handled this badly. It should never
have lasted as long as it's lasted one hundred and
sixteen days or something. I mean, they're talking about privacy,
(10:39):
the need to tell people who involved before they publish
only the executive summary of this report. So we don't,
as you say, Nick, we don't really know what's in
the report.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
We don't know anything, do we. We know that there's
some guy that's standing up and saying I was not
looked after I was dusted, and that it's all we
get it, Yeah, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
What kind of accent was that that?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
I don't know it was supposed to be Mexican.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
But the one thing I would say is that when
you look at when you sort of look above this
and look at it, because you know, next just been
in the UK elections in the UK, I got back
from the US, and you look at this darling ton
of story and you go, for goodness sake, what is
it with our politicis? And I look at it from
a you know, trying to see what is going on
in the Green Party, and there is this element of
(11:20):
holier than thou in the Greens where they think they're
better people and what this shows, and what the Julian
Genta debacle showed, and the Elizabeth Kitty ketty and even
going back as far as Matilia tore they have as
many nutcases and narcissistic egos in their party as any
other political party. So I think we'd feel more sympathetic
(11:41):
for them if they weren't quite so holier than thou
that they are somehow better people. And the thing the
Greens need to learn is the world isn't divided into
good and bad people. It isn't divided into right and wrong.
There are all sorts of areas are gray, and you
get more done when you understand that the world is
complicated and doesn't have simple solutions.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Nick Leggett, what are your thoughts on the Darling Tana saga.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
I think Josie stolen my speech.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Look, oh god, she's not a board me. Now, both
of you you can talk about is how you've been
to America. One's been to Europe. I had I had
Friday night at the Ridges Hotel at the airport.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Oh well it's a good hotel, actually.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Very good hotel. But I'm saying you don't have to
be so skytery about your overseas.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
I think politics gets really it is.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
It's down in the We're down in the weeds and
in the gutter. And look, I'm a bit of a
purist where it comes to electoral systems. So that's my
nerd zone. And we've got a proportional parliament, you know,
that's the m MP right. People voted for the Greens
and for the Greens to get a certain amount of seats.
Darlene Tanner has she's left the Green she's no longer
(12:49):
a member of the Green Party. She should resign so
the Greens can have their full allocation. And I agree
with Josie every workplace. Every party has its fair share
of challenges and troubles with people, and I think the
Greens need to actually front foot that and they're not
perfect and humans and that things are not always right
(13:12):
inside that tent. And yeah, it's it's I mean, I
sort of I feel for any party that goes. So
that's because every party has had it right, every party
in Parliament's had this kind of thing happen.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
I think she should stay, do you, I think we've
seen nothing. Bring the stats out, show us the stats,
let us make the decision. But until we know, we
don't know. There's two sides to every story. Her husband
might have done. If she hasn't gone.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
To the she's over days, and to tell her that
it hasn't.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Gone to the employment tribune, well, you know, don't know
the severity of it.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
This is this is politics rather, this isn't like a
workplace relationship thing. So you're right. If she was an employee,
she's and you're entitled to natural justice and you go
through a performance review process and it may take one
hundred and fifteen days. But this is politics, right. She's
been elected as a List Green MP, not as her
(14:12):
Darlene Tanner and she's she's had one hundred and sixteen
days to be able to tell.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Her that's not her fault? Is it her fault any time?
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Anytime?
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Come out? All right, okay, all right, maybe maybe I.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
Got the thing on that what I mean about the
Greens being holier than that. Look at how they attacked
someone like Shane Jones. I mean, some of the stuff
that was coming out was really personal, really nasty. So
if they're going to ask us for sympathy when things
go wrong with Goryet Scaraman, with Julian Jenta, fine, but also.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
You've only got an hour'readly got an hour to mention
those names. I mean, you can go on forever.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
I know, I know, but just don't divide the people
into good people in bad world into good and bad people.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
So you both strongly feel she should go next list,
next person up on the list comes in and get
on with your life. Goodness, will they do that? Under
the walker jumping that's so anti If she doesn't resign, just.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Goes to Josie's point, though, doesn't it like the Greens, Oh,
we don't believe in wucker jumping legislation, because you know,
we believe in the sanctity of democracy and parliamentary elections
and now you know, principal meets practice and they're not.
They are mutually exclusive. The Greens should bite the bullet
and you know, call on the Wucker jumping legislation and
(15:25):
and and bring the next person on the list in,
because that's the other thing. The Greens need to be
a bit more pragmatic. I mean, I think most New
Zealanders would have more than a kernel of sympathy with
some of the Green agenda. And yet they limit themselves
by bye bye, by sort of isolating themselves on the
political spectrum on many issues. Here's a chance to actually say,
(15:46):
lo lot, we've stuffed up, but actually and we can
see there's some benefit of the Wacker jumping legislation, and
we're going to do things differently from now on.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
And they don't have to go that far to say
that we agree with anything in the Walker jumping. They
don't have to. They sort of do if they're gonna, well,
they can say we don't like it, but we want
to get rid of us, so we'll we'll do it
to do that, cann't they?
Speaker 4 (16:06):
They They do what they do have to do, and
what actually most political parties have to do is get
much better at working at selecting people on their list
and doing a due diligence process about who goes on
their list, because you wouldn't have had to google much
to see that there was a problem here with that
business and with her husband, and that she was involved
in that business. Who knows what the report says, but
(16:26):
you should have They should have done better due diligence.
And they're not the only political party who doesn't do
enough of that.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
A story that's kind of I don't know. It's been
been part of our psych for about a year now
after it was a tragic accident happened. Johnsonville Rugby Club
says says that it loses its liquor license. The club's
application to renew its license is opposed by the licensing
inspector and the family of Cass Maguire who was killed
by a drunking, speeding driver Jason Toutama, who had just
(16:56):
left the rugby club. Anyway, long story short, they're up
for their license. Their license has been opposed. Nick Leggett,
what consequences should the club, or if any, should the
club face because of one of their members and it
wasn't like he jumped from bar to bar. He played
a game of rugby, went into the rugby club and
then drove home and had this horrific accent.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Look, I think this is a this is a tragic case,
and that you know that that young mother that was
that was that was hit and left injured on the
road and then she subsequently died. It's an appalling thing.
And we want the law to come down harshly on
on on offenders in these cases. And then you look back,
(17:40):
You've got to look at that link in that chain
and that chain of responsibility as they talk about, and
there is surely some kind of responsibility that goes back
to a drinking establishment. We need to we do need
to lock in responsibility. I don't think the club should
lose its license. I agree with you Nick, that there
(18:05):
should be some stringent ramifications that that increase host responsibility.
But these you know, these these places help fund clubs.
And what I say is it's not about people when
it shouldn't be about people getting pissed on a Saturday
after the game. But if you think about a rugby
club or any sports club actually doing great work in
(18:27):
the community, it's about bringing the kids through. It's about
opportunities that keep kids off the streets, get them into sport,
get them fit, get them as part of a team
with some discipline. That's the stuff we've got to remember.
It's it's it's all those those things. So I will
defend community organizations and clubs, you know, to keep operating,
(18:49):
but they also need to take responsibility, so it is
a fine balance. The other thing I would say is
often these license discussions are led by public bodies who
want to, you know, stop alcohol being sold. It's it's
often safer for our cohold be sold in the suburbs
so people are closer to home. I do not share
(19:11):
the wowser prohibition mentality of some people in public entities
that want to stop all things, all alcohol being sold,
because ultimately, when you drive alcohol underground, it pops up
in places you can control it even less. So, you know,
we've got a culture of too much drinking in this country,
(19:33):
and actually Key we are drinking less, and young people
are drinking less. We've still got a long way to go,
and a lot of that comes, in my view, from
prohibition in the thirties, the culture that suppressed alcohol. Then
we had the six o'clock swell where bars closed at
six o'clock at night. That's not where we should be going.
There has to be a balance and we need some
common sense. This isn't appalling case, and there are other
(19:57):
appalling cases like this, and alcohol is at the root
of a lot of problems in our society. But we
don't solve those problems by driving it underground. We sold
of it by having it open and getting people, all
people involved in the sale and the distribution of alcohol
to take more responsibility.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Josie, your thoughts.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
On this, Yeah, And I'm sure for the family, you
know what they're looking to see. I know that they
don't want this license renewed, but actually, you know, I'm
sure that for them if they could see more done
about exactly what you talk about, this drinking culture that
we have in New Zealand. And I think you're right
it dates back to the prohibition period. I'm a twenty
one year old son who said he's training to do
(20:36):
his yardie and I go, why would you do that? Son?
You know, it's just and I don't understand that everyone
takes videos and then a laugh because you throw up
because you can't possibly consume that mych alcohol. How do
we get to a state where that's somehow your twenty first.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Call thing so still a thing?
Speaker 4 (20:53):
Oh my gosh, okay, thanks yeah, my family.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
But I think also here what you've got, You've got
a confusion. And I do understand that as a parent,
this is one This is a parent's nightmare, and I
understand their anger and their desire to see something change.
I think there's a confusion here about licensing, which shouldn't
be about health and safety and workplace safety, which is separate,
separate legislation for that. I think licensing is really, isn't it, Nick.
(21:26):
I mean, you know, it's a environment that you're licensed in.
Are there too many schools around? Is it in an
area where there's vulnerability? And yes, you can use it
as a stick you take away your license of your
behave valley, but it should I think there's a danger
of us thinking of licensing as stick and carrot around
health and safety. We've got health and safety legislation, so
(21:47):
use the health and safety legislatre.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Well.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
I was at a meeting with the City Council, Public
Health and Police yesterday. They want to object to one
of our restaurants. It's had a license for twenty one years,
never had any sort of con any sort of telling
off anything. They want to reject it because they don't
want any licenses in a certain areas. So how do
(22:10):
you how do you work that one out?
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Well, I did say to you before, Nick, perhaps a
bit too subtly. You know, it's it's these public entities
that have kind of power. Power, but also this idea
that you just ban stuff and every problem goes away,
and actually it doesn't. What we want to do is
to force responsibility. We've got to bring things out in
(22:35):
the open. And I recognize that most people who drink
do so in a moderate way, responsibly, responsibly, that should
be the rule of thumb. And we deal with the
problems using evidence and expertise. And actually a lot of
these problems are cultural. We challenge it, We challenge it.
(22:55):
You don't challenge a culture by pushing things. It's a
typical repressed key we thing to do to push every
ban everything, stop everything. That is not the way we're
going to do.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
It's something that we have never done. On Friday, face
off before. We're going to change the topic. Because Nick Leggett,
who has hosted the show before and well known to
all of you, said he wants to talk about something,
so we're going to talk about it, and Josie said, yes,
that's a good idea. TV One can reveal an independent
advisory group has recommended to ministers that Kiwi Rail no
longer run the cook straight fairies now. Don't get too excited.
(23:29):
They don't want to sell it off and bring it
back to the private which they did many years ago
and then had to end up buying it back off
them because it was a problem. So they just want
a new government entity to run the fairies. Now. This
is the first we've heard from this independent inquiry, which
is costing us a lot of money. Nick, you're obviously
reasonably passionate about this. You would have read what we've
seen on the media. What do you think? Yeah, look
(23:51):
what I wanted.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
The reason I thought we should talk about this is
because I do detect a high degree of public untrust.
You know, the people I talk to, they're interested in
the fairies and you know, we kind of feel a
sense of ownership here in Wellington. I reckon, but you
know that the fairies are kind of somehow, you know,
ours a little bit and we do. We worry about
the connection. People here understand that the fairies carry freight
(24:16):
to and from the South Island. You know, it is
an extension of State Highway one and this the ruptures
we've seen in recent months are they're challenging. The point Nick,
I think that I want to make first of all,
is you know there's actually a private service in the
form of Blue Bridge that runs I think very well
(24:38):
across the cock Strait.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Would it be an advantage to us though, Josie, if
we had two privates going at each other and dropping
the price and competing against each other, would that be
an advantage for us or not?
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Yeah? I mean we don't know whether we necessarily hear
of everything that goes wrong on the Blue Bridge ferries
right when we do hear about Interne and ferry because
it's key we rail because it's publicly owned. I mean,
certainly we haven't had Blue Bridge. I mean Bluebridge ferries
they just take a ferry out and do the maintenance.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
And you know how many do they have? We do here?
Speaker 3 (25:06):
We do hear about it because actually there were two
fairies out on dry dock, I think, one from each service,
and so we do. There is sometimes a focus on that.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
And I mean, certainly ki we Rail have dropped the
ball big time on this. You know, when the last
government wanted to spend way too much money on the
on the wrong yeah, on the wrong choice. You know,
the internal and fairies make what they don't make a profit.
I mean they basically their revenue is limited and they
wanted and the government, Labor government wanted to spend billions
(25:37):
on it, so that was crazy. Just didn't have a
return on investment. But you know the real issue here
is that Key we Rail have dropped the ball right,
They're not. They haven't managed the maintenance of it. They
haven't mad, they haven't said right, we're going to get
the Toyota Corolla version of a replacement ferry. They've gone,
They've allowed the government, the last Labor government to go.
(25:57):
We want the Ferrari, you know, we want the best fairies.
We want to rebuild the peer.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
That we want a Ferrari for taking our family of
six children across the way.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
They should have gone to the government. We want the
Toyota Corolla version replacement. Get us some decent ferries that
aren't going to break down. That's all we need and
that coming. We don't need a role, We don't need
trains to be able.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
To do we do. They not take trains across anyway.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
They take what's in trains across, but not the trains itself.
So this is the point, right, we talk about in
the infrastructure industry a lot. We need to more bipartisan
approach to the way we make decisions in this country,
less ideologically driven, less party political, because that way, when
a government changes, you don't get the toing and froing.
(26:43):
The reason KiwiRail are in this dilemma is because they
were directed to build a rail enabled ferry with the
cost of which was really signific much more signal, and
then the cost of the port side infrastructure huge, far
more than it needed to be for the services that
we require. That was politically driven, and we were the
(27:04):
only because it was rail and because it was I
mean they were because because.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
The labor gument made it clear they don't, you know,
they don't prioritize roads and trucks over public transport and
trains and so on because of climate right, and I
think where Kiwi Rail fell down is that that was
a politically driven decision the government has a right to
do that. What a board should be doing in Kiwi
Rail is pushing back on that and saying, look at
(27:29):
the evidence, look at the data. You do not need
It wasn't a Ferrari version of a ferry that has
a train that goes on it and a train that
comes off it.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
We were the only country in the world building rail
enabled fairies. There is a message there right from the
market idea.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I mean, you're an infrastructure, you know what they need
to do. Give me in thirty seconds, because I want
to come back to Josie to give her version to
what's needed right now.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
A reliable, resilient, safe service between Picton and Wellington that
carries freight and often freight and time, food, perishable goods
as well as other goods and people that both the
freight moving sector and the wider New Zealand economy and
(28:18):
passengers and travelers can rely on. That's what we need
and that doesn't have to be gold standard. It absolutely
has to be safe primarily. But if you look at Bluebridge,
they come in and they lower it down on the
back deck and the cars and the trucks come off.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
It's not rock that.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Compare that to the sophisticated, very expensive rail enablement that
was being proposed. We couldn't afford it. We need reliability,
and actually we need some contesting. We need a bit
of competitiveness and a bit of tensure.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
And I think, and this comes back to what it
was saying about what we need is a cross party
view of what we're doing with our infrastructure in New Zealand.
And one of this to come back to Biden. One
of the successes that Biden had was that he managed
to get a massive infrastructure bill ross the Congress and
Senate in America and got the Republicans on side. So
(29:12):
you know, that's one of one of his big legacy successes,
which he's busy, you know, shooting himself on the foot with. Now,
that's what we need here and next absolutely right, you
know we don't. We need to look at what is
the what is the problem we're trying to solve here,
and it's reliability. They could go out now and lease
the basic versions of a replacement fairy and make sure
(29:33):
that people feel safe because quite frankly, I'm not sure
I feel entirely safe getting here.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
That's the next that's the next question We asked ourselves
this morning in the newsroom, would you actually feel safe
helping on fairy Well, that's a question that's you know,
it's one of the worst straits in the world, and
you know the Friday let's go hot, so not, Josie
BEGANNI start with that one.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Okay, my heart is this recent study I read about
people who drink black coffee are more likely to exhibit
psychopathic traits, which made me think that people who order
a quad shot non fat vanilla soy light wet with
caramel drizzle are more likely to be their victims.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
They deserve to be if they're ordering that, josey.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
Am, I not hot is a more serious one. You
know the organization I work for, Child Fund, we're working
in the Pacific. There are kids in the Pacific. We
go on holiday there, guys, it's our shared home. There
are kids in the Pacific, about one out of fourteen
dying of dirty water. So we've got a massive campaign.
It's a fixable problem. We can't solve everything in the world,
but we can actually do something about clean water in
(30:41):
the Pacific. And it's our home too. So yeah, Child
Fund got orged and said.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Thanks Jose Thanks Josey.
Speaker 4 (30:49):
Dare you to mock me on that one? It is
actually something I think if you can do something about it,
why not.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Come on, Nick, leg it, give us your hots and
not so my hot is because you forced me to
do this, nake you.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
I actually I didn't force you to do anything. I
want to make it I have not forced you to
do anything. And I've known you for about seven or
eight years and you're not a person that can be
forced to do anything you don't want the very don't.
Don't try and sell that to our whole vulnerable listeners.
I'm very obliging.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
The thing is, I'm pretty also not that great at
preparing these things. But my hot is I went on
to study tours, one to Europe, one to the UK.
As I've said at the start of the show, the
one we went to Dublin and talked to a whole
lot of officials and businesses in Ireland about how that
country has just gone through the roof the most productive
(31:38):
country in the world, basically at the top of the OECD,
the highest level of education. Now you look back fifty
years they weren't and this is a model for New Zealand.
This country needs to decide what it is going to be,
what it's trying to be, what is our vision or
the country we're trying to become. And it's not really
on show for me. And I think we've got to
(31:58):
decide that as a country, and then we've got to
take the steps. You know, Ireland power. You know that
they massively invest in education in the seventies. Thirty five
percent of Irish people have a master's degree. They've lowered
their corporate tax right, they've welcomed foreign direct invests, a
lot of.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
Foreign and they've got a lot of entrepreneurial support R
and D. That's a hot and are not hot?
Speaker 2 (32:20):
What you're not hot? Are not hot?
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Is it's going to be car parks? Those car parks
that have been leased to wetter. It is wetter, isn't.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
It, Sir Peter Jackson, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Stone.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Streets, Stone Streets, Now, I know that back in the day.
You know, I can understand why that decision was made.
It's about helping a business in a suburban part of Wellington.
Good show, but they should be paying a market rate.
Parking is not free and shouldn't come cheap. We need
to better price all of these things. Including our roads
(32:54):
by the way, just to get the infrastructure line in there.
But people won't like the idea that a business is
getting a free run.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
And they should have asked the people who live in
those streets.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Right, I've got to go now. Thank you, Joseph, you're
running out the door. You put your jacket on, you've
got your handbag. Nick Naggett, thank you very much, appreciate
you both. Love you both, have a great weekend. Catch
you next time.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news Talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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