August 21, 2024 • 23 mins
In this week's politics segment, Finance Minister Nicola Willis and Labour's Health and Wellington Issues spokesperson Ayesha Verrall debate Chris Luxon's sharp warning to councils over spending.
They also discuss the Commerce Commission's recommendations to make the baking industry more competitive, and how the Darleen Tana situation is playing out in Parliament.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said b focusing in on the issues
that matter politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings, news Talk said Blazisian,
can you make a right decision for all of us?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Politics? Thursday. Today, we've been joined by Finance Minister Nichola Willis.
Good morning, Nicola, Good morning. How are you.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I'm very well. It's great to be back on the show.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yeah, a long time missed you.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yeah, I've missed being on the show, but don't worry.
I've still been listening in so I'm looking forward to
a check today.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
You could have said I missed you too.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
You know I've missed you. To absolutely again, I.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Said I missed you. I gave you the line that
you just wouldn't come back, but I missed you too.
Labour's Health and Wellington Issue spokesperson Aishevirol, Good.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Morning, morning, next morning, Nichola, Good morning.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I know that you'd miss me. I sure if I
wasn't here, so I mean, you know, we don't have
to say that. I want to start today on something
that we've been talking about for the first two hours
and it's been going nuts on our caller board. Prior
Minister yesterday told the country's mayors at Wellington Conference that
the council needs, councils need to refrain in fantasies, stop
(01:26):
the spending on wasteful projects, and invest in the basics.
It was met with a kind of a frosty reception
from the mayors and councilor Nicola I mean, isn't that
one oh one local body politics?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Good on him speaking truth to power. And there he
was in that one hundred and eighty million dollar convention center,
having driven there over speed bumps that no one asked for,
through puddles that should have had the pipes repaired, and
pass cycle ways that had disrupted local businesses and removed
(02:01):
car parks. So actually he was saying exactly what make
payer is saying to me just about everywhere I go,
which is my new rates bill is killing me. Won't
the council just focus on the basics. So good on
them for delivering that message.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I sure were the Prime Minister's comments justified.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
No, I don't believe they were. I think they have
hung cut councils out to dry hair after ripping the
rug out from under them when they refuse to fund
their water reform and as a result, councils do have
to face massive rate increases. So I see an exercise
(02:44):
in political management here, the part Prime Minister is getting
in early and putting the blame in on councils for
rate increases, when in fact the blame lies with central
government because they have abandoned the three water plans that
we had in place that would have made water much
more affordable, and instead given councils no options to be
(03:05):
able to finance these that are going to take the
pressure off them in the longer term. So this is
the government's fault, and this is a whole exercise and
deflecting and managing blame.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Surely you can't be taking the blame for this.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Nikola, Well exactly. I mean, good luck to Labor if
their messages really that a byzantine co governance system was confiscated,
local water assets were somehow going to reduce the rates bill.
No one believes that. What is happening in New Zealand
right now is there are people who are getting their
rates bills and looking at them and feeling real stress.
(03:38):
So I've had pensioners get in touch with me saying
they genuinely don't know how they're going to stay in
their home. And these same people are looking at what
the Council's focused on and it doesn't match their priorities.
And yet you've got counselors there complaining that it's not
Mars enhancing for the Prime Minister to dare to say
(04:00):
focus on the basics, pick up the rubbish, fix the pipes,
fill in the potholes. And I think the disc cannect
peer is actually between some of our local leaders and
what New Zealanders need them to be doing right now.
So I think it's a very fair challenge from the
Prime Minister, and I actually just want to be clear
there are many counselors around the country who completely agree
(04:24):
and are working hard around the council table to get
their colleagues focused on what should be priorities, and we
should all support them. Maybe Fit what did.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
You make a share of willing to meror Tory Fano's
comment about her being punched down. I didn't get a
good vibe about that comment.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
Well, I didn't hear all of the mayor's comments and
full so I won't comment directly on that, but what
I will say is that all of those councilors, no
matter where they're from, are elected representatives of New Zealanders actually,
just like Nikola, myself and the Prime Minister are. And
so I do think that as central government politicians going
(05:04):
in and lecturing group of people who are also democratic
representatives of their community is patronizing.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Now.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
The fact is that they spend just as much time
carefully managing their budgets weighing up their community's needs as
we do in central government, and some respect for them
wouldn't go amiss.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
See Nikola, I don't agree with isiser. I think that
we as especially Wellington, which I'm a little bit more
of fae with than anywhere else, we need to cut
our cloth to fit and we have not. You know,
you're doing it with government. Why are local councils not
cutting their costs exactly?
Speaker 3 (05:43):
I mean it's one thing to demand respect, it's another
thing to respect rate payers money. And I know that
many households in Wellington and actually across New Zealand have
been feeling disrespected because they drive to work across all
of these speed bumps, which are apparently the big priority.
They drive to work seeing the basics haven't been done
(06:06):
now we've just heard on your bulletin now about these
gold plated bus stops that are being proposed, and yet
again you hear a counselor saying, oh, well, you know
this is what we want to do. Well, actually, there
are households who are having to turn the heater off
at night because your rates bill has come in so heavy.
So let's think about them and ask our counselors to
(06:28):
put their needs served in trances on the basic tasks.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Yeah, and is it a basic task of government to
give two a two hundred and sixteen million dollar tax
breaks to Philip Morris, Because that's it's very easy to
lecture people and what they should be doing. But Nicola,
I think there are some quiet, stand out examples of
wasted money by your government, and that has to be
one of the most egregious. So once again I just
say my point that I don't think it's appropriate for
(06:52):
us to go around lecturing other elected representatives that are
doing an important job of balancing their budgets and the
needs of their community.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Well, I stand by our record on what we're doing
for the cost of living, thanksful to your government straight
to dropping and we've also delivered tax release because we
want to very seriously, we have delivered tax release, the
lower interest rates, lower inflation. These things are making a
meaningful difference, and it's not too much to expect that
councils will take a deep breath and say, actually, now's
(07:24):
the time to just focus on the basis and not
be doing the gold plast stuff.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Can I just ask you, Nikola, if there's more to
come on this? Is there a plan in place to
get Wellington's or the city councils across the country. I
know I'm single visioned on Wellington at the moment, but
it's right around the country. Is there another plan? Is
there more to come on this?
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yes? There is. So we are intending to reform the
laws which currently sets out the multiple well beings which
the local councils are expected to uphold in their work.
We think that's actually led to a confused mandate for
their councils, so we're going to make it clear that
they should be sticking to their knitting and their core purpose.
(08:06):
We are also going to be doing some regional deals
over the next year, which is that we want to
work with regions to say, well, what are your infrastructure
priorities over the next decade. What contribution will local government
make to those? What contribution can central government make to those?
Let's get an agreed plan that we can both confidently
go out to taxpayers and rate payers with and make
(08:27):
sure that we're prioritizing things on the right order and
give everyone certainty. So we do want a very constructive
relationship with local government. But it would be useful if
we could also in the same place, which is times
are tough, so many keyworks. Isn't a lot of spare
cash floating around. Let's make sure we spend it. When
we spend it, all we spend it in the right place.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Would it be good? I go as far as to say,
and I'm just asking you the question is whether the
government will tell Wellington City Council not to go ahead
with a Golden Mile or relook at the Golden Mile
and try and save money there.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Ah.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Well, the agreements that are in ZTA and at the
months have spoken to at the moment is that we
will be working with Wellington Council on that, but that
being clear also that they were going to be doing
more consulting on it and to make sure that the
proposal came through actually fit everyone's objectives.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
I show your view on that.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Yeah. Look, I think deals for those cities are good
options and I think I'd like to see how that
progresses in Wellington. But the government has to start building
partnerships with the elected officials that Wellingtonians have chosen, and
I think getting in and giving them all electure as
(09:41):
if there's some errant tier two manager rather than an
elected official is not the right way to go about that.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
I think they are tier two management. I think it does.
I do believe that that's their job.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
There are people in our city who voted for the
council that way and we have to respect that.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yep, yeah, you're right. I can't argue with that. A
and z Is hit back at the Commerce Commissions report,
which says there's little competition in the sector. The government
will act on fourteen recommendations to give Kiwi Bank a
greater access to capital to better compete with the Australian
owned banks. Aisha, how much of a bad look is
this was having these Australian banks taking millions and billions
(10:25):
and billions of dollars out in New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
Yeah, that's right, that's why Labour set up the study
when we were in government and we suspected that lack
of competition was meaning that we're paying far too much
for banking services because it is an adequate competition between
those small number of banks. We do support some of
the recommendations of that report, particularly to capitalize Kiwibank, to
(10:51):
make sure that it can be more disruptive presence in
the banking market, bring down prices across the other.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Are it's viewers when you're in government brought back all
the shares and Kiwi Bank, they wanted it to be
owned by New Zealand. What do you think of n
Killer and her government start selling that off again.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
We do think it's important that care We Bank is
in New Zealand hands. And the issue there is if
there's another owner, like the super Fund for example, it's
if they then choose to onsell it to someone else.
That is what presents the challenge in terms of ownership.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Nikola, do you actually believe that you can do anything
against it? I suppose to go against the Big four?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Yeah, absolutely, because what we get it from the study
is conclusive evidence that banks in New Zealand much more
profitable than banks and other parts of the world that
we had what's called an oligopoly at the top of
those top four, we're basically they're in a cozy pillow fighte.
So instead of aggressively competing for customers, they're all leaning
(11:56):
back and just enjoying the profits coming in. So we've
got to di rutch that and report gives us multiple
things to do. Beefing up TWI bank can be more
disruptives is one of those things. And break de sea
today that keys Banks reported an excellent result. It's continuing
to increase market share and doing well. These islanders, I
(12:17):
think enjoy the idea of the other bank that can
do that. The second area, though, is allowing innovative new
financial providers to enter the market. And we can do
that by requiring the banks to share their data more
easily so that you can switch banks so that your
data can be shared with another financial provider. So that's
another area. There's also a role for how we set
(12:39):
the rules that the Reserve Bank has making sure that
they aren't making it really easy to be one of
the big banks but really hard to be a little bank.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Why are they making it so hard, Nicholas, Why are
the Reserve Bank. And this is not attack on you
or your government because it's been there for a while.
Why is the Reserve Bank making it so difficult for
a Chinese bank or Japanese bank or German bank to
come into New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah, Well, ultimately the Reserve Bank has a job which
is to ensure financial stability. We all think that's a
good idea, don't we. But the balance that we then
have to strike is how much of a price do
we pay for absolute financial stability compared with also allowing
competition to occur and allowing you people to enter the market.
(13:22):
And what the report from the Commerce Commission says is
that balance has got a bit out of whack. Actually,
our Reserve Bank is more conservative on a global scale
than it needs to be. And so I've got a
job as the Finance Minister to make it clear to
the Reserve Bank that my expectation is that they weigh
competition more heavily in their decision making across all of
(13:43):
their rules, even little things like allowing more people to
call themselves a bank. The rules for that are really
strict at the moment, making sure that the limit of
how much money you have to have to provide a
financial service, which is now that you have to have
thirty million in capital, actually lowering that so more people
can get involved, so small practical things to make it
(14:04):
a more competitive banking environment. And none of this is
the silver bullet stuff, nick. But what we have I
think is a really important piece of evidence in front
of us that we're not getting a good deal for
New Zealand bank users at the moment. This means that
your fees are too high, you're not getting fair enough pricing,
because if it was more competitive, you'd be getting a
better deal.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
I show why is why does the government not bank
with Kiwibank? If you do you know that reason? When
you've had six years in power? Do you know why
they didn't?
Speaker 4 (14:34):
No? I don't, But I think perhaps perhaps Nichola, it's
her portfolio. But I think you know.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
It's kind of weird, isn't it. Do you think it's
weird that like we own our own bank and yet
you know all our you know, our money's not paid
through it. Our government employees aren't paid through it, Nicola.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Ah. So basically there's a government contract that finishes in
twenty twenty seven, the current one because it's a contract
all of the government's banking services and it goes out
every few years, and when the government tenders for that contract,
we basically ask everyone to see them their best offer,
and we do so on an eating basis. So at
the moment that contract is with Westpac, and in future
(15:18):
you'd expect that Kiwibank would be able to compete for
that contract. I think it's pretty important that the government
doesn't go in there necessarily from day one favoring one
provider over the other, because we've actually got to dry
for the best deal as well, so that we're getting
a good steal for tax payers.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Okay, that's changed tacked a little bit. Police redundancy, more specifically,
two hundred and fifty jobs are coming out of the
police as can we actually sit back here and be
certain that that won't impact the front line. I know
that it's no frontline jobs going, but those jobs still
have to be done by someone. If they're not wearing
(15:53):
a suit, are they going to be wearing a uniform?
Speaker 4 (15:56):
That's exactly right. And what we're seeing in parts of
the public service public sector, including the health system, is
that these back office cuts result in our frontline start
having to do more admin and that's the thing that
would have to watch out for with these cuts in police,
(16:19):
with the cuts in Uranga Tamariki, with the savings that
are going on in the health system as well. Also
worth noticing noting that the net number of police officers
are reduced at the moment in New Zealand relative to
when this government took office, so a lot of pressure
on police to meet the meet the needs that are
out their own our community in terms of fighting crime.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Nikola, we do have a problem, don't we, Because if
you cut out people that are doing all the back
office work, someone has to do that work and suddenly
you're going to have a person in a uniform instead
of being on the beat or doing their job, actually
doing an office job.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Well, look, we all have a job to make sure
that we're being productive and efficient as possible, and that's
why in the budget our government committed funding for five
hundred additional front line off and if you talk to
one of those frontline police officers, you'll find quite a
few will quietly say, look, why there's so much money
(17:15):
being spent at HQ and so good on Commissioner Costa,
he is doing an exercise that media, government agencies, many
businesses done across the country, which is working out how
can we make our operation in the back office more efficient,
more productive so that we can support the front line.
But tell us the right place.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Can you tell us categorically that there will be no
uniformed people taking off doing a job out the front
and put into doing a job out the bank.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Well Andrew Coft, a commissioner, is responsible for operational decision
making to the police. It would be wrong for me
to direct him, but I have said his public comments
that he believes these changes can be made in a
way that won't adversely impact the frontline.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Politics. Thursday, Finance Minister Nichola Willison labored Health and Willington
Issues spokesperson Aisha Verral, We've got a few more. It's left.
I want to quickly go through a couple of things
that are not troubling me. But I'd like to ask
you about as thousands of public services service servants find
themselves out of work, where learning that David Seymour's new
Ministry of Regulations has more than ninety staff paid an
(18:22):
average of one hundred and fifty thousand dollars eiesha, How
does this actually sit with you when you read this.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Yeah, I mean we learned about it on a day
when two hundred and thirty people had their jobs on
the line at the mills in the Rual pair Who district.
And it does seem like a hypocritical after campaigning against
high salaries in the public service, that he does seem
to have set up a ministry that replicates exactly exactly
(18:51):
that for himself. It seems to me another example of
the government's principles miraculously evaporating every time the coalition agreement
comes into play.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Nikola David Seymour said, it's good value for money. Can
you really believe that?
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Well, I think it's important that every government agency deliver
good value for money, and this ministry will be judged
by how successful it is in reducing the costs of
New Zealander's faith as a result for regulation, and I
do think it's important we think of the context here,
which is that this is a government that's taken one
(19:28):
and a half billion dollars a year out of costs
and government agencies, and exercise that was opposed at every
turn by our opponents who never saw a job in
a public agency. They didn't want to protect and never
saw a public salary they didn't want to increase dramatically,
so that is the context of this. I'm also crowd
(19:51):
that we have in the past a few months since
becoming government dramatically decreased the amount that we are spending
on consultants and contractors, because in the past, under labor
a lot of this sort of specialist work would have
been farmed out to one of the big consultan company
a considerable expense, and we're driving those costs down and
(20:12):
building up expertise in the core public service.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Okay, I have a story that just won't go away.
Former Green MP Darling Tana has formally declined the Green
Party's request that she resign and she'll stay as an independent.
The Greens will meet on September first to decide whether
they'll use the party hopping legislation. Nicola, how messy is
(20:35):
this and is it a distraction for parliament going about
their job?
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Well, look, I'm sure it's a distraction for the Green
Party and obviously messy for them and their leaders to
always have these personnel issues at their feet, but ultimately
it's a mess for them. I can be lely keep
up with it, Mack.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
No, nor can I, but it doesn't seem to want
to go away. Aisha, do you feel a little bit
strange or uneasy that people elected on a party list
can actually stay in Parliament when the party don't want them.
They just basically employees, aren't they?
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Well, yes, I do feel strange, and I do, and
that is why we have agreed that Darlene Tanner. The
right thing for Darlne Tanner to do would be to resign.
She is not an electorate MP, she's a list MP.
I think very few people voted for Darlene Tanner when
many thousands of people, hundreds of thousands of people voted
(21:30):
for the Green So I think the dignified thing to
do would be for her to go. But she has
chosen not to do that.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
But Nikola put it the other way. She was part
of the whole Green thing. Darlinge for Green, for Darling,
there was her slogan. She was part of the whole
thing that got them so many votes. So surely she
should be able to stay.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Well, surely everyone who voted for the Green Party can
reflect on that decision. And we think next time that.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Darhli greed for Dahlid or dahlied for greed?
Speaker 5 (22:02):
Was it.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Right? Something that annoyed me, and you both will probably
think that I'm out of line on this. New Zealand
Transport Association could spend up to a million dollars protecting
a very fancy snail and lizard from a long awaited
o Taki deliver in motorway. Come on, I should tell
me this is money well spent.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
I will tell you that those snails are really special
neck threatened species. They're large, beautiful, multi colored snails, and
I think I might just leave it there.
Speaker 5 (22:36):
Nicola, your thoughts when you read this, well, you know
we have to acknowledge that EMZTA is complying the law
as it stands, and obviously there's a need to protect
New Zealand's native wildlife.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
But I do not think very many Kiwis would be
happy with more than a million dollars being spent on
relocating snails.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Especially when you're talking about cutting costs.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Really, so and so, look, this is one of the
areas of the law that we are looking at. See
how can we make sure that that balance is better
struck on these major projects.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Great thank you both for joining us this morning. Oicheverel
and Nikola Willis, It's Wellington Mornings.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks. There'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said b focusing in on the issues
that matter politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings, news Talk said Blazisian,
can you make a right decision for all of us?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Politics? Thursday. Today, we've been joined by Finance Minister Nichola Willis.
Good morning, Nicola, Good morning. How are you.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I'm very well. It's great to be back on the show.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yeah, a long time missed you.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yeah, I've missed being on the show, but don't worry.
I've still been listening in so I'm looking forward to
a check today.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
You could have said I missed you too.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
You know I've missed you. To absolutely again, I.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Said I missed you. I gave you the line that
you just wouldn't come back, but I missed you too.
Labour's Health and Wellington Issue spokesperson Aishevirol, Good.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Morning, morning, next morning, Nichola, Good morning.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I know that you'd miss me. I sure if I
wasn't here, so I mean, you know, we don't have
to say that. I want to start today on something
that we've been talking about for the first two hours
and it's been going nuts on our caller board. Prior
Minister yesterday told the country's mayors at Wellington Conference that
the council needs, councils need to refrain in fantasies, stop
(01:26):
the spending on wasteful projects, and invest in the basics.
It was met with a kind of a frosty reception
from the mayors and councilor Nicola I mean, isn't that
one oh one local body politics?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Good on him speaking truth to power. And there he
was in that one hundred and eighty million dollar convention center,
having driven there over speed bumps that no one asked for,
through puddles that should have had the pipes repaired, and
pass cycle ways that had disrupted local businesses and removed
(02:01):
car parks. So actually he was saying exactly what make
payer is saying to me just about everywhere I go,
which is my new rates bill is killing me. Won't
the council just focus on the basics. So good on
them for delivering that message.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I sure were the Prime Minister's comments justified.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
No, I don't believe they were. I think they have
hung cut councils out to dry hair after ripping the
rug out from under them when they refuse to fund
their water reform and as a result, councils do have
to face massive rate increases. So I see an exercise
(02:44):
in political management here, the part Prime Minister is getting
in early and putting the blame in on councils for
rate increases, when in fact the blame lies with central
government because they have abandoned the three water plans that
we had in place that would have made water much
more affordable, and instead given councils no options to be
(03:05):
able to finance these that are going to take the
pressure off them in the longer term. So this is
the government's fault, and this is a whole exercise and
deflecting and managing blame.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Surely you can't be taking the blame for this.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Nikola, Well exactly. I mean, good luck to Labor if
their messages really that a byzantine co governance system was confiscated,
local water assets were somehow going to reduce the rates bill.
No one believes that. What is happening in New Zealand
right now is there are people who are getting their
rates bills and looking at them and feeling real stress.
(03:38):
So I've had pensioners get in touch with me saying
they genuinely don't know how they're going to stay in
their home. And these same people are looking at what
the Council's focused on and it doesn't match their priorities.
And yet you've got counselors there complaining that it's not
Mars enhancing for the Prime Minister to dare to say
(04:00):
focus on the basics, pick up the rubbish, fix the pipes,
fill in the potholes. And I think the disc cannect
peer is actually between some of our local leaders and
what New Zealanders need them to be doing right now.
So I think it's a very fair challenge from the
Prime Minister, and I actually just want to be clear
there are many counselors around the country who completely agree
(04:24):
and are working hard around the council table to get
their colleagues focused on what should be priorities, and we
should all support them. Maybe Fit what did.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
You make a share of willing to meror Tory Fano's
comment about her being punched down. I didn't get a
good vibe about that comment.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
Well, I didn't hear all of the mayor's comments and
full so I won't comment directly on that, but what
I will say is that all of those councilors, no
matter where they're from, are elected representatives of New Zealanders actually,
just like Nikola, myself and the Prime Minister are. And
so I do think that as central government politicians going
(05:04):
in and lecturing group of people who are also democratic
representatives of their community is patronizing.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Now.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
The fact is that they spend just as much time
carefully managing their budgets weighing up their community's needs as
we do in central government, and some respect for them
wouldn't go amiss.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
See Nikola, I don't agree with isiser. I think that
we as especially Wellington, which I'm a little bit more
of fae with than anywhere else, we need to cut
our cloth to fit and we have not. You know,
you're doing it with government. Why are local councils not
cutting their costs exactly?
Speaker 3 (05:43):
I mean it's one thing to demand respect, it's another
thing to respect rate payers money. And I know that
many households in Wellington and actually across New Zealand have
been feeling disrespected because they drive to work across all
of these speed bumps, which are apparently the big priority.
They drive to work seeing the basics haven't been done
(06:06):
now we've just heard on your bulletin now about these
gold plated bus stops that are being proposed, and yet
again you hear a counselor saying, oh, well, you know
this is what we want to do. Well, actually, there
are households who are having to turn the heater off
at night because your rates bill has come in so heavy.
So let's think about them and ask our counselors to
(06:28):
put their needs served in trances on the basic tasks.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Yeah, and is it a basic task of government to
give two a two hundred and sixteen million dollar tax
breaks to Philip Morris, Because that's it's very easy to
lecture people and what they should be doing. But Nicola,
I think there are some quiet, stand out examples of
wasted money by your government, and that has to be
one of the most egregious. So once again I just
say my point that I don't think it's appropriate for
(06:52):
us to go around lecturing other elected representatives that are
doing an important job of balancing their budgets and the
needs of their community.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Well, I stand by our record on what we're doing
for the cost of living, thanksful to your government straight
to dropping and we've also delivered tax release because we
want to very seriously, we have delivered tax release, the
lower interest rates, lower inflation. These things are making a
meaningful difference, and it's not too much to expect that
councils will take a deep breath and say, actually, now's
(07:24):
the time to just focus on the basis and not
be doing the gold plast stuff.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Can I just ask you, Nikola, if there's more to
come on this? Is there a plan in place to
get Wellington's or the city councils across the country. I
know I'm single visioned on Wellington at the moment, but
it's right around the country. Is there another plan? Is
there more to come on this?
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yes? There is. So we are intending to reform the
laws which currently sets out the multiple well beings which
the local councils are expected to uphold in their work.
We think that's actually led to a confused mandate for
their councils, so we're going to make it clear that
they should be sticking to their knitting and their core purpose.
(08:06):
We are also going to be doing some regional deals
over the next year, which is that we want to
work with regions to say, well, what are your infrastructure
priorities over the next decade. What contribution will local government
make to those? What contribution can central government make to those?
Let's get an agreed plan that we can both confidently
go out to taxpayers and rate payers with and make
(08:27):
sure that we're prioritizing things on the right order and
give everyone certainty. So we do want a very constructive
relationship with local government. But it would be useful if
we could also in the same place, which is times
are tough, so many keyworks. Isn't a lot of spare
cash floating around. Let's make sure we spend it. When
we spend it, all we spend it in the right place.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Would it be good? I go as far as to say,
and I'm just asking you the question is whether the
government will tell Wellington City Council not to go ahead
with a Golden Mile or relook at the Golden Mile
and try and save money there.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Ah.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Well, the agreements that are in ZTA and at the
months have spoken to at the moment is that we
will be working with Wellington Council on that, but that
being clear also that they were going to be doing
more consulting on it and to make sure that the
proposal came through actually fit everyone's objectives.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
I show your view on that.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Yeah. Look, I think deals for those cities are good
options and I think I'd like to see how that
progresses in Wellington. But the government has to start building
partnerships with the elected officials that Wellingtonians have chosen, and
I think getting in and giving them all electure as
(09:41):
if there's some errant tier two manager rather than an
elected official is not the right way to go about that.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
I think they are tier two management. I think it does.
I do believe that that's their job.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
There are people in our city who voted for the
council that way and we have to respect that.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yep, yeah, you're right. I can't argue with that. A
and z Is hit back at the Commerce Commissions report,
which says there's little competition in the sector. The government
will act on fourteen recommendations to give Kiwi Bank a
greater access to capital to better compete with the Australian
owned banks. Aisha, how much of a bad look is
this was having these Australian banks taking millions and billions
(10:25):
and billions of dollars out in New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
Yeah, that's right, that's why Labour set up the study
when we were in government and we suspected that lack
of competition was meaning that we're paying far too much
for banking services because it is an adequate competition between
those small number of banks. We do support some of
the recommendations of that report, particularly to capitalize Kiwibank, to
(10:51):
make sure that it can be more disruptive presence in
the banking market, bring down prices across the other.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Are it's viewers when you're in government brought back all
the shares and Kiwi Bank, they wanted it to be
owned by New Zealand. What do you think of n
Killer and her government start selling that off again.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
We do think it's important that care We Bank is
in New Zealand hands. And the issue there is if
there's another owner, like the super Fund for example, it's
if they then choose to onsell it to someone else.
That is what presents the challenge in terms of ownership.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Nikola, do you actually believe that you can do anything
against it? I suppose to go against the Big four?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Yeah, absolutely, because what we get it from the study
is conclusive evidence that banks in New Zealand much more
profitable than banks and other parts of the world that
we had what's called an oligopoly at the top of
those top four, we're basically they're in a cozy pillow fighte.
So instead of aggressively competing for customers, they're all leaning
(11:56):
back and just enjoying the profits coming in. So we've
got to di rutch that and report gives us multiple
things to do. Beefing up TWI bank can be more
disruptives is one of those things. And break de sea
today that keys Banks reported an excellent result. It's continuing
to increase market share and doing well. These islanders, I
(12:17):
think enjoy the idea of the other bank that can
do that. The second area, though, is allowing innovative new
financial providers to enter the market. And we can do
that by requiring the banks to share their data more
easily so that you can switch banks so that your
data can be shared with another financial provider. So that's
another area. There's also a role for how we set
(12:39):
the rules that the Reserve Bank has making sure that
they aren't making it really easy to be one of
the big banks but really hard to be a little bank.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Why are they making it so hard, Nicholas, Why are
the Reserve Bank. And this is not attack on you
or your government because it's been there for a while.
Why is the Reserve Bank making it so difficult for
a Chinese bank or Japanese bank or German bank to
come into New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah, Well, ultimately the Reserve Bank has a job which
is to ensure financial stability. We all think that's a
good idea, don't we. But the balance that we then
have to strike is how much of a price do
we pay for absolute financial stability compared with also allowing
competition to occur and allowing you people to enter the market.
(13:22):
And what the report from the Commerce Commission says is
that balance has got a bit out of whack. Actually,
our Reserve Bank is more conservative on a global scale
than it needs to be. And so I've got a
job as the Finance Minister to make it clear to
the Reserve Bank that my expectation is that they weigh
competition more heavily in their decision making across all of
(13:43):
their rules, even little things like allowing more people to
call themselves a bank. The rules for that are really
strict at the moment, making sure that the limit of
how much money you have to have to provide a
financial service, which is now that you have to have
thirty million in capital, actually lowering that so more people
can get involved, so small practical things to make it
(14:04):
a more competitive banking environment. And none of this is
the silver bullet stuff, nick. But what we have I
think is a really important piece of evidence in front
of us that we're not getting a good deal for
New Zealand bank users at the moment. This means that
your fees are too high, you're not getting fair enough pricing,
because if it was more competitive, you'd be getting a
better deal.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
I show why is why does the government not bank
with Kiwibank? If you do you know that reason? When
you've had six years in power? Do you know why
they didn't?
Speaker 4 (14:34):
No? I don't, But I think perhaps perhaps Nichola, it's
her portfolio. But I think you know.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
It's kind of weird, isn't it. Do you think it's
weird that like we own our own bank and yet
you know all our you know, our money's not paid
through it. Our government employees aren't paid through it, Nicola.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Ah. So basically there's a government contract that finishes in
twenty twenty seven, the current one because it's a contract
all of the government's banking services and it goes out
every few years, and when the government tenders for that contract,
we basically ask everyone to see them their best offer,
and we do so on an eating basis. So at
the moment that contract is with Westpac, and in future
(15:18):
you'd expect that Kiwibank would be able to compete for
that contract. I think it's pretty important that the government
doesn't go in there necessarily from day one favoring one
provider over the other, because we've actually got to dry
for the best deal as well, so that we're getting
a good steal for tax payers.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Okay, that's changed tacked a little bit. Police redundancy, more specifically,
two hundred and fifty jobs are coming out of the
police as can we actually sit back here and be
certain that that won't impact the front line. I know
that it's no frontline jobs going, but those jobs still
have to be done by someone. If they're not wearing
(15:53):
a suit, are they going to be wearing a uniform?
Speaker 4 (15:56):
That's exactly right. And what we're seeing in parts of
the public service public sector, including the health system, is
that these back office cuts result in our frontline start
having to do more admin and that's the thing that
would have to watch out for with these cuts in police,
(16:19):
with the cuts in Uranga Tamariki, with the savings that
are going on in the health system as well. Also
worth noticing noting that the net number of police officers
are reduced at the moment in New Zealand relative to
when this government took office, so a lot of pressure
on police to meet the meet the needs that are
out their own our community in terms of fighting crime.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Nikola, we do have a problem, don't we, Because if
you cut out people that are doing all the back
office work, someone has to do that work and suddenly
you're going to have a person in a uniform instead
of being on the beat or doing their job, actually
doing an office job.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Well, look, we all have a job to make sure
that we're being productive and efficient as possible, and that's
why in the budget our government committed funding for five
hundred additional front line off and if you talk to
one of those frontline police officers, you'll find quite a
few will quietly say, look, why there's so much money
(17:15):
being spent at HQ and so good on Commissioner Costa,
he is doing an exercise that media, government agencies, many
businesses done across the country, which is working out how
can we make our operation in the back office more efficient,
more productive so that we can support the front line.
But tell us the right place.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Can you tell us categorically that there will be no
uniformed people taking off doing a job out the front
and put into doing a job out the bank.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Well Andrew Coft, a commissioner, is responsible for operational decision
making to the police. It would be wrong for me
to direct him, but I have said his public comments
that he believes these changes can be made in a
way that won't adversely impact the frontline.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Politics. Thursday, Finance Minister Nichola Willison labored Health and Willington
Issues spokesperson Aisha Verral, We've got a few more. It's left.
I want to quickly go through a couple of things
that are not troubling me. But I'd like to ask
you about as thousands of public services service servants find
themselves out of work, where learning that David Seymour's new
Ministry of Regulations has more than ninety staff paid an
(18:22):
average of one hundred and fifty thousand dollars eiesha, How
does this actually sit with you when you read this.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Yeah, I mean we learned about it on a day
when two hundred and thirty people had their jobs on
the line at the mills in the Rual pair Who district.
And it does seem like a hypocritical after campaigning against
high salaries in the public service, that he does seem
to have set up a ministry that replicates exactly exactly
(18:51):
that for himself. It seems to me another example of
the government's principles miraculously evaporating every time the coalition agreement
comes into play.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Nikola David Seymour said, it's good value for money. Can
you really believe that?
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Well, I think it's important that every government agency deliver
good value for money, and this ministry will be judged
by how successful it is in reducing the costs of
New Zealander's faith as a result for regulation, and I
do think it's important we think of the context here,
which is that this is a government that's taken one
(19:28):
and a half billion dollars a year out of costs
and government agencies, and exercise that was opposed at every
turn by our opponents who never saw a job in
a public agency. They didn't want to protect and never
saw a public salary they didn't want to increase dramatically,
so that is the context of this. I'm also crowd
(19:51):
that we have in the past a few months since
becoming government dramatically decreased the amount that we are spending
on consultants and contractors, because in the past, under labor
a lot of this sort of specialist work would have
been farmed out to one of the big consultan company
a considerable expense, and we're driving those costs down and
(20:12):
building up expertise in the core public service.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Okay, I have a story that just won't go away.
Former Green MP Darling Tana has formally declined the Green
Party's request that she resign and she'll stay as an independent.
The Greens will meet on September first to decide whether
they'll use the party hopping legislation. Nicola, how messy is
(20:35):
this and is it a distraction for parliament going about
their job?
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Well, look, I'm sure it's a distraction for the Green
Party and obviously messy for them and their leaders to
always have these personnel issues at their feet, but ultimately
it's a mess for them. I can be lely keep
up with it, Mack.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
No, nor can I, but it doesn't seem to want
to go away. Aisha, do you feel a little bit
strange or uneasy that people elected on a party list
can actually stay in Parliament when the party don't want them.
They just basically employees, aren't they?
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Well, yes, I do feel strange, and I do, and
that is why we have agreed that Darlene Tanner. The
right thing for Darlne Tanner to do would be to resign.
She is not an electorate MP, she's a list MP.
I think very few people voted for Darlene Tanner when
many thousands of people, hundreds of thousands of people voted
(21:30):
for the Green So I think the dignified thing to
do would be for her to go. But she has
chosen not to do that.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
But Nikola put it the other way. She was part
of the whole Green thing. Darlinge for Green, for Darling,
there was her slogan. She was part of the whole
thing that got them so many votes. So surely she
should be able to stay.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Well, surely everyone who voted for the Green Party can
reflect on that decision. And we think next time that.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Darhli greed for Dahlid or dahlied for greed?
Speaker 5 (22:02):
Was it.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Right? Something that annoyed me, and you both will probably
think that I'm out of line on this. New Zealand
Transport Association could spend up to a million dollars protecting
a very fancy snail and lizard from a long awaited
o Taki deliver in motorway. Come on, I should tell
me this is money well spent.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
I will tell you that those snails are really special
neck threatened species. They're large, beautiful, multi colored snails, and
I think I might just leave it there.
Speaker 5 (22:36):
Nicola, your thoughts when you read this, well, you know
we have to acknowledge that EMZTA is complying the law
as it stands, and obviously there's a need to protect
New Zealand's native wildlife.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
But I do not think very many Kiwis would be
happy with more than a million dollars being spent on
relocating snails.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Especially when you're talking about cutting costs.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Really, so and so, look, this is one of the
areas of the law that we are looking at. See
how can we make sure that that balance is better
struck on these major projects.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Great thank you both for joining us this morning. Oicheverel
and Nikola Willis, It's Wellington Mornings.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks. There'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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