The Wellington City Council has dropped $550,000 to install a bike rack on a lane off The Terrace - is this responsible spending?
That was the big question for the Friday Faceoff panel this week, with Rongotai MP and Green transport spokeswoman Julie Anne Genter, and Wellington City Councillor John Apanowicz.
Also on the agenda was the tourist levy, more business closures in Wellington, and the couple who found $230k in their ceiling.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said B dissecting the week sublime and
ridiculous Friday face off with Quinovic Property Management a better
rental experience for all Call oh eight hundred Quinovic Thursday Dozens.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Joining us for Friday face off this week is rob
Ati MP and Green Transport spokesperson Julian Genta.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Good morning, good morning, How are you great?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Would you buy here from Parliament?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Not from Parliament from baron pour? Oh, it's the fastest
way to get around the city. Easiest way to park too.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Did you find a park out the front?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
I did very easy. Was there one year right outside
the building?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Was there like Canberras and it was like really exclusive
and classy.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
No, I just actually locked my bike to itself outside
your building.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Okay, hopefully it'll be safe because otherwise Wellington City councilor
who's joining us now, John Panaba, will actually organize us
to have a big five hundred thousand dollars bike rack
out the front way. You morning and welcome.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Morning Nick, morning June and good to see you both right.
Lovely day outside noe beautiful?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Did you ride your bike from the councilcause you'vet always
pikes around you.
Speaker 5 (01:21):
Now I walk around Wellington a lot O great, I.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Thought you'd bike down, but now you've got this new anyway,
let's talk about bike talked about it all morning, got
a lot of callers about it. We have to start
with it. In case of another exorbitant spending by Wellington
City Council. They spent five hundred and fifty thousand a
little bit over that upgrading a lane way, specifically so
they could install a designer bike rack, which costs one
(01:45):
hundred and thirty thousand. Julie and Jener, How on earth
is this spending responsible when Wellingtonians, which you are, face
a twenty percent rate rise.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
It's really interesting because all of the infrastructure for bikes
is always characterized in the media as being expensive, but
when we look at the numbers, it's actually a very
tiny percentage of the overall council budget. You know, I
was looking at the rate rises less than one percent.
(02:18):
If the rate rise is attributable to the cycleway network,
ten times more money at least is being spent on
the pipes, and that work is attributable to the pipes.
And you know, if five hundred thousand dollars wouldn't buy
you five car parks in Wellington Central. So I think
we just have to put it in context and that
you know, all of this infrastructure if it helps people
(02:40):
use bikes more, that's beneficial for everyone because they take
up so much less space than one person in a car.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
But even I mean you're a green impay, you would
think couldn't we save money?
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Well, I just don't think you would notice that same.
I mean when we look later at the transport budget
and the amount of money that's going on car oriented infrastructure,
literally thousands of times more money. So I just think,
like I don't. Of course, five hundred thousand dollars sounds
like a lot to you or me as a person,
But when you look at transport budgets and the amount
of money being spent on infrastructure, the amount being spent
(03:11):
on bikes is like one percent. It's tiny, and it
has some of the highest return because think about every
time one person feels safe to ride their biken and.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
We're not I mean, the arguments not about that at all. Yeah,
argument is about couldn't we have done it cost?
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Could we have done it for eighty thousand I mean potentially,
I don't I don't know, but even if, like I
doubt it.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Right, bring in John, you're a city councilor. Did the
city council vote? Did you as a councilor vote on this?
Speaker 4 (03:40):
This would probably go through our Rigs Committee, which I
don't sit on, and that's where a lot of the
transport items go through.
Speaker 5 (03:48):
I mean the long term plan and then your plan.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
We go through a process which allocates money to activity
so that activity will.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
Have a bucket of money.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
And did you see this one go through?
Speaker 4 (03:58):
No, I don't remember it. Literally today as it came
into the news, I was like, well.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
That's but it's not a good thing to do.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
And I can see it. I can see the corner
of it out out of their council window because it's
down Shell Lane and so had a look at it
and it was there was one bike in there. Probably
it's gonna be a hell of a lot more now
because we've advertised hell out yet.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
We're doing great.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
And then I walked here and it went through Featherston
Strength and a bit of check out what the other
one is?
Speaker 5 (04:26):
One we were just talking about before U and it
was full. So that was it's comparison of cost us.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Because what I want to put in spective was I
reckon that that Featherston Street by Rex been there for
at least ten years, been there for a lot longer
than what you know. And I bit you, I bet
your dollars for donuts that it would have cost a
hell of a lot less than five hundred.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Pounds, even accounting for inflation and the rest of it. Yeah,
because well, the I mean, the rack itself wasn't five
hundred thousand dollars, it was only one hundred.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Why are we spending this is what it was.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Only that you said, shouldn't it be eighty thousand? It
was only just a bit over one hundred thousand. And
the civil works for the lane way is what costs
five hundred thousand. And that sounds very That sounds totally
within the no range of civil works around Wellington or
anywhere in the country.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
My question to both of you, I'll start with you, Julianne.
I mean, we're trying to save money, we're trying to
tighten our belts. We're all in hard times. You know
that twenty percent your rate increase with twenty percent, it's
the same as mine. Isn't that. I mean, maybe you're
earn a lot more. You're definitely in a lot more
than me. So doesn't that affect you? Doesn't it make
you think that our councils should be pulling their damn heated?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Well, actually, they're providing a huge amount of services to us,
and there are services we can't buy on our own
as individuals, so if we cut back on those will
be even worse off. The big thing driving the cost
for counsels is the ketch up on thirty years of
deferred maintenance plus the Kaikora earthquake and the impact that's
had on the pipes and ultimately that under investment and
(05:54):
that infrastructure happened because everybody was complaining about raids rises.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
So are you going to tell me, are you going
to tell me and our listeners that you're quite happy
with the fact that we're paying twenty percent more or
nenty twenty percent more and you're not not worried about
it and you think our council.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Wing a good How do you feel about paying more
at businesses when they're costs go up when you go
out to the restaurant and when you're you know, buying
a new gadget.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Away very simply can walk out the door, very simply.
I don't have to pay at that restaurant. If that
restaurant's charging too much, I say thank you, And I've
done that. I've looked at the menu as hit sure
as I can't afford that, I've done that and walked out.
We can't walk away from our rates.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
But we also can't pay for them as individuals. So
if we don't pay for it together as a group,
then where our city is actually going to be worse off.
How are we going to have the infrastructure to make
this a good place to live, to attract and support
business and tourism and visitors and a good quality of
life if we don't all chip in together and invest
in those things we can't buy by ourselves. We can't
(06:50):
buy our water pipes as individuals.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
No, I get that, and I'm not saying that we
shouldn't be spending money on it anyway. Let's go to John.
I could argue for a whole hour with you on
that one. I mean, I've just got a list today
that my producer gave me. I mean, it's five places
that are closed.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
The last four traits. That's because the government laying off
public sector workers and crashing them.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
They've crashed the Sorry, I mean I disagree with you. John,
come in here, please try and defend the indefensible.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Ryan tell me, I think Julian's done a great job
being a city councilor as it is. But I'll take
the point. You know, when we started the long term
plan process is a lengthy process with huge engagement. Everybody
comes to us with the wish list. They want things,
things cost money. There's fifty eight activities in our long
(07:44):
term Plan. Fifty three of them we have to statually
do via government. Costs have gone up significantly across the board,
and I was really quite I was trying to target a.
Speaker 5 (07:55):
Ten percent increase, and I'm the deputy on this committee.
We nearly got their pre Christmas. We were thirteen point
four or five. We came back.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
Everybody went, look, we want more stuff, and it's hard
as a politician to say no, because you know, everybody
has their own thing they want to do.
Speaker 5 (08:13):
And we ended up sixteen point nine plus the sludge,
which is the add on. Then the regional council. When
you bring that in, which was twenty percent, it just
it's it's.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
A big number, and it's really really difficult to then
go to people and say, look, I'm sorry, we're not
going to fund your pipes.
Speaker 5 (08:33):
We're not going to do your rubbish collection. We're not
going to do We're not.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Talking about this is what really frustrates me, and it
frustrates a lot of our listeners. We're not talking about
the pipes and the rubbish. Ye, We're talking about things
like Wow, We're talking about things like add ons, like
expensive bike racks when they could be cheap bike racks.
No one's saying we don't need bike parking. No one's
saying that. But surely we can say, hey, right now,
(08:58):
I don't need to buy a fancy shirt. I can
wear my old shirt from last year. And that's the
state of the living we're in at the moment. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
Well, I just the first and I'll say is when
we went out with the long term plan, we have
prime consult consultations on three items. First one was water
one point eight billion over ten years, because it was
it was the biggest issue we were facing over that
Christmas period. It's huge, so we had to do something
about it. We added more in as well, which is
(09:25):
part of that increase of the rates. Second one, we
talk about waste, the waste system, how we operate. You know,
we've got a significant issue with the Southern landfill is
just basically filling up.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Once again, John, I'm really sorry, and I don't want
to sound rude, but we're not talking about water waste.
We're talking about the spend that we don't need, the
ta Keenas, the luxuries, the old town Hall, the live
We're talking about things that you know what, My life
doesn't change if we don't have the old town Hall finished.
My life doesn't change if the library is not the
(09:58):
Flashes library, because I can go down to my Mirrima
I want and get a book. What I'm asking you
is why can't you tell us and be straight about it?
Why are you spending money that we don't have?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Nick? Can I just jump in because you know, I
completely agree with you and am frustrated about the amount
on the town Hall. But as I understand it, there
was no option that was significantly less. And that's where
you get you know, like, even if you spent less
on the bike cracks, that wouldn't make it different. No
one would even notice in the overall rates that's what
I'm saying. It's such a tiny percentage, it's not the
(10:30):
major cost driver, so you know, fair enough, I understand
everyone's frustrated, but like right now, Teqina is probably one
of the things bringing you know, and I wouldn't agreed
with that. I would have preferred to invest in light
rail than Tequina. But these were previous councils ten years ago,
twelve years ago that made these decisions. And right now
that facility is bringing people to Wellington, which is helping
(10:53):
support businesses.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Hold On.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Central government is trying to kill Wellington.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Hold On. Can I say that venue is losing money.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Yeah, but but it brings people to town who then
go out to eat. Like the local government conference being here,
people were out eating in the restaurants, they were out
going to the bars. That's it's I agree. Look, I
don't think convention centers are a good investment relative to
other things, but it wasn't these counselors who made that year.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
There are a lot of things which aren't like economically
a great option, but they still are required by the
residence of Wellington.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Well you didn't need to keep them.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
To be fair, we didn't well well yeah, I mean
I was.
Speaker 5 (11:33):
I was.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
We've got it to paper at the time of that decision,
and we had exhibitions and they are hard to make
that they're literally so hard to make money. One and
two loses money. We've had the situation here, we've got
We've had some great exhibitions. I sit on the board
of Wellington n Z now and what we need to
do is actually promote these things so people come and
see them, they know they're there, and they actually actively
(11:56):
engage and use these facilities because people want to do that.
Well well was also sort of semi funded via Wellington
d Z using the facilities that we have.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I think that if Wellington people knew what WOW actually
costs them, they'd have a different tune about WOW. The
government's raising the tourist levy to pay it the money
you pay at the border, from thirty five dollars to
one hundred dollars, and there's fears that's from some of
the tourist industry. This could mean fifty thousand fewer tourists
come to New Zealand. John, I want to start with
(12:28):
you on this. We're only sort of eighty percent of
the pre COVID tourism, Lezles. Is this the right move
to do right now?
Speaker 5 (12:34):
I don't think so.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
I am concerned because you know, like Wellington is a
tourist destination in the summer and the springtime. You know,
the city Council have a lot of facilities which are
designated to tourism. If you look at the cable car, Zelandier,
the Zoo, our Museum, that all of these things thrive
when tourists come to Wellington and it gives a whole
(12:58):
different impact in the summer time. To slap attacks on
now which we don't get anything for. Remember that Wellington,
we're not going to any money out.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Of are You're not going to get something to help
you put some more toilets on and stuff.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
Oh well yeah, a lot of people come to me
on that sort of thing. But no, probably not so.
I think just the timing is wrong. I'd like to
see increased tourism. I think the issue we have.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
This summer is that the number of cruise ships will
be down. So that is gonna that is gonna is
that public? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Yeah, well known, not sure, not sure exact numbers, but
it has been discussed. Wellington and z came into the
presentation before I was on the board. So it is
it is known you can track who how many come
in and into Wellington.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
But yeah, that creates a big boost.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
What's a fair price to you there? What do you
think do you think? I mean you were once a tourist?
Speaker 3 (13:51):
No, I came here as a resident. Yeah, well to study,
so but I might you know, I have family and
friends who've come to visit and been tourists, and I
think there's a really strong case for a tourism levey
that as long as that money is put into things
like conservation and the infrastructure that you know, tourists put
(14:13):
pressure on our infrastructure. And you know there's places like Queenstown.
If you're worried about rates, think about you know, the
Southern Lakes district. They don't have a really huge population
they have to pay for all of this infrastructure, but
they have all the tourists putting pressure on the infrastructure.
So the issue isn't really so much to the tourism levey.
There's two issues with what the government's proposing now. One
is the steepness of the increase, Like a threefold increase
(14:35):
seems like a very steep increase to me. I would
have preferred to see it in a more staged manner.
But the real problem is not them. I don't see
a guarantee that money is going to be put into
conservation and the infrastructure that local councils need.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
What are you saying it's just a money great.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Well, I think yeah, I do think the government is
looking to raise revenue in different ways. And you know
what we were talking about earlier, where the pressure comes
on councils and everyone's scrutinizing what councils do. Actually, the
real pressure should be on central government because they are
not giving local government enough funding to invest in the
infrastructure and service responsibilities they have. And so I think
(15:15):
rather than complaining about council you should be complaining about
government not funding more of the pipes right infrastructure?
Speaker 4 (15:23):
Yeah we we, I would say, I mean, and Unikanism
really is rights as well.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
You could Julianne is saying you should be getting more
from government well.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
For the infrastructure and services that you're legally mandated to
provide and that the community wants it needs.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Definitely to be fear you guys had six years on
the left head, six years I was.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Not I was not a formal member of a coalition
government at any point in the last in those six years,
so you might not have been going out differently than
La Juliette.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
You might not have been going out with them, but
you're definitely holding hands with.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Well No, they didn't need our support in the final
three years and we would have made decisions very differently
than Labor did. So that's why I'm in the Green Party.
We have a different perspective on that come back and John.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
I just I mean that local government has lobbied hard
on alternative mechanisms to fund these items. We've had a
discussion this week about water done well and the regional
model which could be coming through. This is this will
have an impact on like council balance sheets and how
it works. You know, we can raise more debt, great,
(16:28):
but we still really want you know, everybody wants.
Speaker 5 (16:31):
To fix the pipes.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
We hear it a lot and we need the right
vehicle to do that. You know, no one I could
not find anyone who would say would be a cheerleader
for Wellington Water, which I should should actually be called
hot water because it's based out there, which drains water.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
From the top and the rim attackers and so.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Are you're telling us there's a real problem with Wellington
water Well.
Speaker 5 (16:53):
It's well known, Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
I mean if we didn't have and I think it's
more the structure of the entity than the delivery. They
come together and go this is how much money we need,
and there are very few metrics which we can actually
monitor them on that they're actually succeeding.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
It's a problem. The vehicle is, it's broken. Give us
more money.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Okay, So tourist Levy, let's stick to what we are
talking about really quickly. What's your fair price, John?
Speaker 5 (17:24):
I would I would go probably fifty dollars me too.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Yeah, fifty or sixty initially. But we need to see
the value from that and how that's getting invested in
the things that make New Zealand unique and that's why
people want to come visit here, which is our beautiful
natural environment, our conservation estate and even our Marndia culture.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
I want to start the segment talking about the government
is confirmed funding for the second Mount Victoria Tunnel and
the Patoni to Grenada link, but it's slash cycle ways
and walkways funding and says no more speed humps will
be funded. Julian within a time period. I know that
you're a big cyclist and a big fan of cycling,
So what do you make of this.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Well, it's just it's just kind of nonsensical. I mean,
if we want an economically productive and efficient transport system
that delivers for New Zealand, then you know, we look
at the evidence about what works everywhere in the world
and in cities it makes sense to invest in public
transport and bikes and walking. And I'm really concerned that,
I mean, communities aren't even going to be able to
(18:26):
put in you know, safe pedestrian crossings and in a
place like Wellington where so many people walk, I think
that is a problem. Unfortunately, I do have to tell
you Nick, and I know this a bit sneaky. The
way the government has said that they've committed funding to Patoni,
to Granada and the Mount Bick Tunnel. I had to
look at the detail and they that's certainly that funding
(18:46):
for the whole project is absolutely not confirmed in the NLTP.
The funding for it's only a few hundred million for
the and when I say only a few hundred million
is a lot more than five hundred thousand, like many,
many times more, it's a few hundred million for pre
implementation work, but it's so there's probable not committed and
(19:08):
it's only and it's only only quote unquote thirty million
for Patoni to Granada for design work that is committed.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
So you're telling us right here and right now to
all our listeners in Wellington that the Patoni to Grenada
is not a done deal and the second amount Victoria
Tunnel is not Spades in the ground done deal.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Definitely not. And those projects will be will cost overall
billions and billions of dollars. And you know, the total
amount committed to Wellington in the next three year and
LTP is three billion dollars. So I mean, even if
they were only doing those two projects the full funding
when and that's normal. I'm just saying those projects are
years away from even commencing their starting point and the
(19:46):
government is still investigating an alternative tunnel in Wellington, which
is going to mean a big delay and probably one
hundred million dollars on consultants just to do the planning work.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
John, what are your thoughts? What are you hearing? You're
a stance man, You'll be all over this.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
I definitely am early in my political career, I did
campaign on Grenada, the Granada Road and the Link Road,
and I think it's it's relevant because it's it's the problem.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
Has got worse. To get to the heart it is.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
You know, if you look at it from a perspective
to two perspectives. One is that it will reduce that
bottleneck coming into the city. Second one is it provides
a natural resilience an event of a potentially big earthquake,
et cetera. So I really like that one. It's it's
a it will also unlock what.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
About the second Mount Victoria Tunnel? Sure you'd want that, Oh.
Speaker 5 (20:32):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
I think that's again but probably slight different perspective because
you know, in a in a city, regeneration something I'm
really quite keen on. And part of that if it's
if the tunnel goes.
Speaker 5 (20:44):
Actually underneath, it's even better because.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Well that's what they're still talking.
Speaker 5 (20:47):
Yeah, open up housing.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
This is what we want to do in the council
is in this area, make it more pleasant, more housing,
more people there, more vibrancy, more activity, Julia.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
And these are two big roads, you know, especially the
second Mount Victoria Tunnel and if you're talking about that
one that they're starting from the ten Rus, which you
know there's people working on. It's not like a pipe dream.
There's an organization now working on that second, that tunnel
that goes from the terrace right through to basically High
Tye Ti Kilbernie. I mean, how do you feel about
this as a Green person? Are the Green supporting it? Well?
Speaker 3 (21:22):
I mean I think it's I think it's funny because
here you are really upset and exercised about a few
hundred thousand dollars on bike parking and improvements to a
lane way, but apparently when it comes to moving cars,
people are happy to spend any amount of money, any
amount of money, no matter how low the benefits are. Like,
I mean, well, you can't tell unfundable. You you're saying
(21:44):
we have to save money.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I'm telling you you cannot compete.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
You're telling you the government's transport plans are absolutely unfundable.
And there's a really good article by Thomas Coughlin and
the Herald. I recommend people look at if you look
out ten years, they're talking about an extra six or
seven billion of Crown funding. That's you know, several that's
instead of hospitals and stead of schools every single year
out for you know, ten years out from now. So
(22:08):
this is you know, national are fiscally irresponsible and as
much as I know, people have been talking about these
roads forever. But if you really care about cost benefit analysis,
if you really care about the city, you got to say,
how do we spend the money in the most cost
effective way to give people what they need and what
they want? And the answer is public transport, bikes and
all that stuff, because that means the roads we already
(22:29):
have work much better and it's much lower cost, delivers
greater benefits to the city, cleaner air, you know, much
more thriving cities. That's how they do it overseas.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Yeah, I understand that. I think one of the funding scenario.
Of course, there has been a lot of discussion recently
about tolls, so this could be a toll road. I
was having that very discussion this morning with a couple
of the council officials and it's like, well, how could
that work for Wellington?
Speaker 5 (22:54):
Probably not.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
I mean the better example would have been Transmission Gully.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
That they should have been a totro go.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
I use that regularly and it is it's not the
greatest gradient in road, but it's works really well, saves
your time, gets you where you want to go. This
one hardcore because your people may just drive around it.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Fires keepers, losers weep as. I love the story. Tell
me whether you guys do. A christ Church couple discovered
two hundred and thirty thousand dollars cash in the ceiling
of a home they purchased in twenty twenty one. They
went and told the police who took it off them,
confiscated it off them and said it was the process
of crime from gain related former resident. Police went want
(23:36):
to seize the money and have it launded through the
court action, but the couple say they didn't sauce it
criminally and should be theirs. Jillian Gender, I've got no
idea what you're going to come back with this on
this one, I've got no Normally I can look at
you and say, I know what her view is going
to be on this. What should happen with the money?
Speaker 5 (23:54):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Well, first thing, I just wanted to say good on
them for telling the police in the first place, like
that's a responsible thing to do. But you know, America, ultimately,
I think now that they've done that when you know,
then you've got to follow the law and a court
will decide. And you know, I totally understand, be very lucky.
It's like winning the lotto to finding So what would
(24:15):
you have done that?
Speaker 2 (24:16):
What would you have done?
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Well, I'm a politician. I absolutely would have to turn
hand it over, It wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
I I was going to say, you said you're a politician,
I'm going to I'm going to stick it under my bed.
Shut it. No, I can't just lie about everything else
in your life. Why would you lie about the body?
That's what politicians do, don't they.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Well, not green politicians now, not myself. Now I think
I'm not you know, like I have to be better,
you know, than anyone else, because if I do anything wrong,
it comes under extreme spord.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Hopefully you're not going to get caught. That's the whole reason,
isn't it. Come on, John, tell us what you're going
to do. You just you're painting the ceiling.
Speaker 5 (24:46):
In my hand bike.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I ethically, I just wouldn't build a right bike ready.
Speaker 5 (24:53):
Half a bike wreck? Yeah I could. I just couldn't
do it.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
I'm my my chartered accountant will kick in with the
ethics and I'd be like, this is you know, it's
not my money, but it's an unusual thing to find
that amount of money and your and your ceiling.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
The problem is that the electrician found it. If there
was no one else involved, different story, isn't it. But
I suppose you guys are suppose saying you're goody two seasons,
doesn't matter, you're just going to do.
Speaker 5 (25:20):
The right wrecked with guilf If I did something with.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
That, what about just leaving it there? What about not
even touching it? Just leaving it there?
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Well, it's not worth anything, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (25:30):
There, it'd be worse.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Gosh, Yeah, you'd be worried. I'd be worried. If you
asked me what I would do? What would you do?
Speaker 5 (25:40):
Nick?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
I've thought about a lot, this a lot. If the
electrician wasn't involved, it's staying there. I'm not touching it.
But because the electricians involved, everyone knows. So you'd have
to do the right thing. So I'm a crooked. I'm bad. Really,
doesn't that's what it says, doesn't. It says that if
I wasn't going to get caught, I'm going to do
the crime.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
But you said you just leave it there.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah, I just leave it there.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Well, if you're not going to spend it, then I haven't.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Done anything wrong, I think. Can you be my lawyer?
Business closures? This is very sad and I'm very passionate
about this because obviously I'm in business in Weartington, trying
to do business in Wenington and hanging on by the
skin of my teeth. Like every business in Wellington is
last month, last fortnight. Even Egmont Street Deli great place
of at Edwards Floris and Tory Street another amazing place.
(26:26):
Individual these places are individually really good. Pandora has three
cafes closing at the end of business today, Clawley's, a
high end shop in Gusney Street and the service Depot
high End Street and Gusneys. John. I'm going to start
with you, do the council really give a damn? And
as we do? As Ethan said to me, I wonder
if the mayor has rung any of those shops or
(26:48):
any of those places and said, how are you well?
Speaker 5 (26:51):
We interact quite regularly with businesses. I definitely do.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
She set up the Mirror Business Group, which sort of
came out of the gold Mill. But that's a great
mechanism to understand like some of the issues that are there.
Speaker 5 (27:04):
And you've got dci.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Wong in there, you me got brock Shares's all these
entities are there, so we do care. How we how
we work with them as a council is probably the issue.
And it comes back to people going like, well, it's
you know, you're spending our money on frivolous things. So
we try and promote, We try and help them where
(27:30):
we can. We do some stuff with rates relief. Unfortunately
probably not a lot, not a lot, but you know
when we have entities like Wellington and Zed that are
there to promote Wellington and to do these things. I've
sort of touched base with a number of people from
the the the Courtney Place Revival group. They've got great
(27:51):
ideas the things that we should be doing, and I
really want to help them on that.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Julian gin to just quickly because I'm running out of
time and I want to go to hots and lots
with you guys. But what are your thoughts? I mean,
you're a welling Tonian by default. You know you're voted,
you're voted and men of Parliament through Wellington. Does this
concern Yeah?
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Absolutely, I'm extremely concerned and ultimately this question needs to
be directed to Nicola Willis, who's the Minister of Finance
and a Wellingtonian who's overseen thousands and thousands of job
losses in any other region. If there was that scale
of job losses, central government would intervene with some sort
of plan or relief funding. You know, think about the
(28:29):
aluminium smelter t y Point. You know that was like
what twelve hundred jobs and we've had successive governments giving
them tens of millions of dollars to stay open. Yet
and when it comes to Wellington, Nikola Willis and the
Coalition government are I mean taking pleasure at people losing
their livelihoods and with no plan or proposal to step
(28:50):
in to help support Wellington. And I think it's disgraceful.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
John. I'd like to give you one little bit of advice.
Council needs to open the doors. Council needs to be
a yes counsel. Oh, if you want to help businesses,
make it easy to get a license, make it easy
to get a permit, make it easy for developers and
builders and plumbers and electricians, make it easier.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
I do agree, and some of it we do, we can.
We try hard and we've got mechanisms that we're using.
But remember some of the stuff is not but not
from us, it's from yes, central government.
Speaker 5 (29:24):
We can't change a whole bunch of things. Willy Lilly
the Friday Facer.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Hot come on and Julia and Gene to give us
you'r hot first.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
I think the incredible ceremony and burial of Kinny to
hate your was just incredible up in outside of Raglan
and Narawahia. And now we've had the crowning of the
new female Mari monarch, who's queen not Queenie. I should
say now, why hono? Incredible?
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Well did well said? And you're not hot ah?
Speaker 3 (30:04):
The public sector layoffs. Actually, I was going to talk
about the government texting South Korean officials less than an
hour before the announcement of canceling the Fairies. That was
really poor form and very very embarrassing for New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Wow, that's incredible, Hots and not for you John.
Speaker 5 (30:22):
Thanks Nick. Hot spring isn't it great?
Speaker 4 (30:26):
So nice to walk here and just have sunshine? We
don't have a great spring in Wellington, you know.
Speaker 5 (30:32):
Wow. Even though you may not.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
Be I'm a fan of well It is great my
first time last year.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Absolutely, Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of
well I just you know, it costs us a lot
of money.
Speaker 5 (30:41):
All that stuff is going to come through. It's to
be it's gonna be a good spring.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Okay, you're not hot.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
I'll pick a council one because we talked, we debated
it this week, Johnsonville Moore. It's like, oh, you know,
that's an example of something that has not happened in
Wellington and really needs to be fixed and done so.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
And you want to know it. Can I just quickly
exause I've only got one second. I've got to go.
But do you want to the council to jump in
or you just want it to let the builders the
owners know that you want something done.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Well, well I think we'd let them know what's something done.
We're just working through how we can do it.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Okay, John and Tenovic Eprey Panovitch. I got I got done.
I got tired at the end of the show and
got it wrong. Sorry, I apologize for it. And Julianne
Jent are great to have you both and great to
see you again. Juliana, I haven't seen you for a long time.
So great to see you on the show again and
keep up the good work both of you.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Lovely to see you bye bye.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said B dissecting the week sublime and
ridiculous Friday face off with Quinovic Property Management a better
rental experience for all Call oh eight hundred Quinovic Thursday Dozens.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Joining us for Friday face off this week is rob
Ati MP and Green Transport spokesperson Julian Genta.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Good morning, good morning, How are you great?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Would you buy here from Parliament?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Not from Parliament from baron pour? Oh, it's the fastest
way to get around the city. Easiest way to park too.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Did you find a park out the front?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
I did very easy. Was there one year right outside
the building?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Was there like Canberras and it was like really exclusive
and classy.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
No, I just actually locked my bike to itself outside
your building.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Okay, hopefully it'll be safe because otherwise Wellington City councilor
who's joining us now, John Panaba, will actually organize us
to have a big five hundred thousand dollars bike rack
out the front way. You morning and welcome.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Morning Nick, morning June and good to see you both right.
Lovely day outside noe beautiful?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Did you ride your bike from the councilcause you'vet always
pikes around you.
Speaker 5 (01:21):
Now I walk around Wellington a lot O great, I.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Thought you'd bike down, but now you've got this new anyway,
let's talk about bike talked about it all morning, got
a lot of callers about it. We have to start
with it. In case of another exorbitant spending by Wellington
City Council. They spent five hundred and fifty thousand a
little bit over that upgrading a lane way, specifically so
they could install a designer bike rack, which costs one
(01:45):
hundred and thirty thousand. Julie and Jener, How on earth
is this spending responsible when Wellingtonians, which you are, face
a twenty percent rate rise.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
It's really interesting because all of the infrastructure for bikes
is always characterized in the media as being expensive, but
when we look at the numbers, it's actually a very
tiny percentage of the overall council budget. You know, I
was looking at the rate rises less than one percent.
(02:18):
If the rate rise is attributable to the cycleway network,
ten times more money at least is being spent on
the pipes, and that work is attributable to the pipes.
And you know, if five hundred thousand dollars wouldn't buy
you five car parks in Wellington Central. So I think
we just have to put it in context and that
you know, all of this infrastructure if it helps people
(02:40):
use bikes more, that's beneficial for everyone because they take
up so much less space than one person in a car.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
But even I mean you're a green impay, you would
think couldn't we save money?
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Well, I just don't think you would notice that same.
I mean when we look later at the transport budget
and the amount of money that's going on car oriented infrastructure,
literally thousands of times more money. So I just think,
like I don't. Of course, five hundred thousand dollars sounds
like a lot to you or me as a person,
But when you look at transport budgets and the amount
of money being spent on infrastructure, the amount being spent
(03:11):
on bikes is like one percent. It's tiny, and it
has some of the highest return because think about every
time one person feels safe to ride their biken and.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
We're not I mean, the arguments not about that at all. Yeah,
argument is about couldn't we have done it cost?
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Could we have done it for eighty thousand I mean potentially,
I don't I don't know, but even if, like I
doubt it.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Right, bring in John, you're a city councilor. Did the
city council vote? Did you as a councilor vote on this?
Speaker 4 (03:40):
This would probably go through our Rigs Committee, which I
don't sit on, and that's where a lot of the
transport items go through.
Speaker 5 (03:48):
I mean the long term plan and then your plan.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
We go through a process which allocates money to activity
so that activity will.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
Have a bucket of money.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
And did you see this one go through?
Speaker 4 (03:58):
No, I don't remember it. Literally today as it came
into the news, I was like, well.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
That's but it's not a good thing to do.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
And I can see it. I can see the corner
of it out out of their council window because it's
down Shell Lane and so had a look at it
and it was there was one bike in there. Probably
it's gonna be a hell of a lot more now
because we've advertised hell out yet.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
We're doing great.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
And then I walked here and it went through Featherston
Strength and a bit of check out what the other
one is?
Speaker 5 (04:26):
One we were just talking about before U and it
was full. So that was it's comparison of cost us.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Because what I want to put in spective was I
reckon that that Featherston Street by Rex been there for
at least ten years, been there for a lot longer
than what you know. And I bit you, I bet
your dollars for donuts that it would have cost a
hell of a lot less than five hundred.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Pounds, even accounting for inflation and the rest of it. Yeah,
because well, the I mean, the rack itself wasn't five
hundred thousand dollars, it was only one hundred.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Why are we spending this is what it was.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Only that you said, shouldn't it be eighty thousand? It
was only just a bit over one hundred thousand. And
the civil works for the lane way is what costs
five hundred thousand. And that sounds very That sounds totally
within the no range of civil works around Wellington or
anywhere in the country.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
My question to both of you, I'll start with you, Julianne.
I mean, we're trying to save money, we're trying to
tighten our belts. We're all in hard times. You know
that twenty percent your rate increase with twenty percent, it's
the same as mine. Isn't that. I mean, maybe you're
earn a lot more. You're definitely in a lot more
than me. So doesn't that affect you? Doesn't it make
you think that our councils should be pulling their damn heated?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Well, actually, they're providing a huge amount of services to us,
and there are services we can't buy on our own
as individuals, so if we cut back on those will
be even worse off. The big thing driving the cost
for counsels is the ketch up on thirty years of
deferred maintenance plus the Kaikora earthquake and the impact that's
had on the pipes and ultimately that under investment and
(05:54):
that infrastructure happened because everybody was complaining about raids rises.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
So are you going to tell me, are you going
to tell me and our listeners that you're quite happy
with the fact that we're paying twenty percent more or
nenty twenty percent more and you're not not worried about
it and you think our council.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Wing a good How do you feel about paying more
at businesses when they're costs go up when you go
out to the restaurant and when you're you know, buying
a new gadget.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Away very simply can walk out the door, very simply.
I don't have to pay at that restaurant. If that
restaurant's charging too much, I say thank you, And I've
done that. I've looked at the menu as hit sure
as I can't afford that, I've done that and walked out.
We can't walk away from our rates.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
But we also can't pay for them as individuals. So
if we don't pay for it together as a group,
then where our city is actually going to be worse off.
How are we going to have the infrastructure to make
this a good place to live, to attract and support
business and tourism and visitors and a good quality of
life if we don't all chip in together and invest
in those things we can't buy by ourselves. We can't
(06:50):
buy our water pipes as individuals.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
No, I get that, and I'm not saying that we
shouldn't be spending money on it anyway. Let's go to John.
I could argue for a whole hour with you on
that one. I mean, I've just got a list today
that my producer gave me. I mean, it's five places
that are closed.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
The last four traits. That's because the government laying off
public sector workers and crashing them.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
They've crashed the Sorry, I mean I disagree with you. John,
come in here, please try and defend the indefensible.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Ryan tell me, I think Julian's done a great job
being a city councilor as it is. But I'll take
the point. You know, when we started the long term
plan process is a lengthy process with huge engagement. Everybody
comes to us with the wish list. They want things,
things cost money. There's fifty eight activities in our long
(07:44):
term Plan. Fifty three of them we have to statually
do via government. Costs have gone up significantly across the board,
and I was really quite I was trying to target a.
Speaker 5 (07:55):
Ten percent increase, and I'm the deputy on this committee.
We nearly got their pre Christmas. We were thirteen point
four or five. We came back.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
Everybody went, look, we want more stuff, and it's hard
as a politician to say no, because you know, everybody
has their own thing they want to do.
Speaker 5 (08:13):
And we ended up sixteen point nine plus the sludge,
which is the add on. Then the regional council. When
you bring that in, which was twenty percent, it just
it's it's.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
A big number, and it's really really difficult to then
go to people and say, look, I'm sorry, we're not
going to fund your pipes.
Speaker 5 (08:33):
We're not going to do your rubbish collection. We're not
going to do We're not.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Talking about this is what really frustrates me, and it
frustrates a lot of our listeners. We're not talking about
the pipes and the rubbish. Ye, We're talking about things
like Wow, We're talking about things like add ons, like
expensive bike racks when they could be cheap bike racks.
No one's saying we don't need bike parking. No one's
saying that. But surely we can say, hey, right now,
(08:58):
I don't need to buy a fancy shirt. I can
wear my old shirt from last year. And that's the
state of the living we're in at the moment. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
Well, I just the first and I'll say is when
we went out with the long term plan, we have
prime consult consultations on three items. First one was water
one point eight billion over ten years, because it was
it was the biggest issue we were facing over that
Christmas period. It's huge, so we had to do something
about it. We added more in as well, which is
(09:25):
part of that increase of the rates. Second one, we
talk about waste, the waste system, how we operate. You know,
we've got a significant issue with the Southern landfill is
just basically filling up.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Once again, John, I'm really sorry, and I don't want
to sound rude, but we're not talking about water waste.
We're talking about the spend that we don't need, the
ta Keenas, the luxuries, the old town Hall, the live
We're talking about things that you know what, My life
doesn't change if we don't have the old town Hall finished.
My life doesn't change if the library is not the
(09:58):
Flashes library, because I can go down to my Mirrima
I want and get a book. What I'm asking you
is why can't you tell us and be straight about it?
Why are you spending money that we don't have?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Nick? Can I just jump in because you know, I
completely agree with you and am frustrated about the amount
on the town Hall. But as I understand it, there
was no option that was significantly less. And that's where
you get you know, like, even if you spent less
on the bike cracks, that wouldn't make it different. No
one would even notice in the overall rates that's what
I'm saying. It's such a tiny percentage, it's not the
(10:30):
major cost driver, so you know, fair enough, I understand
everyone's frustrated, but like right now, Teqina is probably one
of the things bringing you know, and I wouldn't agreed
with that. I would have preferred to invest in light
rail than Tequina. But these were previous councils ten years ago,
twelve years ago that made these decisions. And right now
that facility is bringing people to Wellington, which is helping
(10:53):
support businesses.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Hold On.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Central government is trying to kill Wellington.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Hold On. Can I say that venue is losing money.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Yeah, but but it brings people to town who then
go out to eat. Like the local government conference being here,
people were out eating in the restaurants, they were out
going to the bars. That's it's I agree. Look, I
don't think convention centers are a good investment relative to
other things, but it wasn't these counselors who made that year.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
There are a lot of things which aren't like economically
a great option, but they still are required by the
residence of Wellington.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Well you didn't need to keep them.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
To be fair, we didn't well well yeah, I mean
I was.
Speaker 5 (11:33):
I was.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
We've got it to paper at the time of that decision,
and we had exhibitions and they are hard to make
that they're literally so hard to make money. One and
two loses money. We've had the situation here, we've got
We've had some great exhibitions. I sit on the board
of Wellington n Z now and what we need to
do is actually promote these things so people come and
see them, they know they're there, and they actually actively
(11:56):
engage and use these facilities because people want to do that.
Well well was also sort of semi funded via Wellington
d Z using the facilities that we have.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I think that if Wellington people knew what WOW actually
costs them, they'd have a different tune about WOW. The
government's raising the tourist levy to pay it the money
you pay at the border, from thirty five dollars to
one hundred dollars, and there's fears that's from some of
the tourist industry. This could mean fifty thousand fewer tourists
come to New Zealand. John, I want to start with
(12:28):
you on this. We're only sort of eighty percent of
the pre COVID tourism, Lezles. Is this the right move
to do right now?
Speaker 5 (12:34):
I don't think so.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
I am concerned because you know, like Wellington is a
tourist destination in the summer and the springtime. You know,
the city Council have a lot of facilities which are
designated to tourism. If you look at the cable car, Zelandier,
the Zoo, our Museum, that all of these things thrive
when tourists come to Wellington and it gives a whole
(12:58):
different impact in the summer time. To slap attacks on
now which we don't get anything for. Remember that Wellington,
we're not going to any money out.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Of are You're not going to get something to help
you put some more toilets on and stuff.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
Oh well yeah, a lot of people come to me
on that sort of thing. But no, probably not so.
I think just the timing is wrong. I'd like to
see increased tourism. I think the issue we have.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
This summer is that the number of cruise ships will
be down. So that is gonna that is gonna is
that public? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Yeah, well known, not sure, not sure exact numbers, but
it has been discussed. Wellington and z came into the
presentation before I was on the board. So it is
it is known you can track who how many come
in and into Wellington.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
But yeah, that creates a big boost.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
What's a fair price to you there? What do you
think do you think? I mean you were once a tourist?
Speaker 3 (13:51):
No, I came here as a resident. Yeah, well to study,
so but I might you know, I have family and
friends who've come to visit and been tourists, and I
think there's a really strong case for a tourism levey
that as long as that money is put into things
like conservation and the infrastructure that you know, tourists put
(14:13):
pressure on our infrastructure. And you know there's places like Queenstown.
If you're worried about rates, think about you know, the
Southern Lakes district. They don't have a really huge population
they have to pay for all of this infrastructure, but
they have all the tourists putting pressure on the infrastructure.
So the issue isn't really so much to the tourism levey.
There's two issues with what the government's proposing now. One
is the steepness of the increase, Like a threefold increase
(14:35):
seems like a very steep increase to me. I would
have preferred to see it in a more staged manner.
But the real problem is not them. I don't see
a guarantee that money is going to be put into
conservation and the infrastructure that local councils need.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
What are you saying it's just a money great.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Well, I think yeah, I do think the government is
looking to raise revenue in different ways. And you know
what we were talking about earlier, where the pressure comes
on councils and everyone's scrutinizing what councils do. Actually, the
real pressure should be on central government because they are
not giving local government enough funding to invest in the
infrastructure and service responsibilities they have. And so I think
(15:15):
rather than complaining about council you should be complaining about
government not funding more of the pipes right infrastructure?
Speaker 4 (15:23):
Yeah we we, I would say, I mean, and Unikanism
really is rights as well.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
You could Julianne is saying you should be getting more
from government well.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
For the infrastructure and services that you're legally mandated to
provide and that the community wants it needs.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Definitely to be fear you guys had six years on
the left head, six years I was.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Not I was not a formal member of a coalition
government at any point in the last in those six years,
so you might not have been going out differently than
La Juliette.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
You might not have been going out with them, but
you're definitely holding hands with.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Well No, they didn't need our support in the final
three years and we would have made decisions very differently
than Labor did. So that's why I'm in the Green Party.
We have a different perspective on that come back and John.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
I just I mean that local government has lobbied hard
on alternative mechanisms to fund these items. We've had a
discussion this week about water done well and the regional
model which could be coming through. This is this will
have an impact on like council balance sheets and how
it works. You know, we can raise more debt, great,
(16:28):
but we still really want you know, everybody wants.
Speaker 5 (16:31):
To fix the pipes.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
We hear it a lot and we need the right
vehicle to do that. You know, no one I could
not find anyone who would say would be a cheerleader
for Wellington Water, which I should should actually be called
hot water because it's based out there, which drains water.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
From the top and the rim attackers and so.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Are you're telling us there's a real problem with Wellington
water Well.
Speaker 5 (16:53):
It's well known, Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
I mean if we didn't have and I think it's
more the structure of the entity than the delivery. They
come together and go this is how much money we need,
and there are very few metrics which we can actually
monitor them on that they're actually succeeding.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
It's a problem. The vehicle is, it's broken. Give us
more money.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Okay, So tourist Levy, let's stick to what we are
talking about really quickly. What's your fair price, John?
Speaker 5 (17:24):
I would I would go probably fifty dollars me too.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Yeah, fifty or sixty initially. But we need to see
the value from that and how that's getting invested in
the things that make New Zealand unique and that's why
people want to come visit here, which is our beautiful
natural environment, our conservation estate and even our Marndia culture.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
I want to start the segment talking about the government
is confirmed funding for the second Mount Victoria Tunnel and
the Patoni to Grenada link, but it's slash cycle ways
and walkways funding and says no more speed humps will
be funded. Julian within a time period. I know that
you're a big cyclist and a big fan of cycling,
So what do you make of this.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Well, it's just it's just kind of nonsensical. I mean,
if we want an economically productive and efficient transport system
that delivers for New Zealand, then you know, we look
at the evidence about what works everywhere in the world
and in cities it makes sense to invest in public
transport and bikes and walking. And I'm really concerned that,
I mean, communities aren't even going to be able to
(18:26):
put in you know, safe pedestrian crossings and in a
place like Wellington where so many people walk, I think
that is a problem. Unfortunately, I do have to tell
you Nick, and I know this a bit sneaky. The
way the government has said that they've committed funding to Patoni,
to Granada and the Mount Bick Tunnel. I had to
look at the detail and they that's certainly that funding
(18:46):
for the whole project is absolutely not confirmed in the NLTP.
The funding for it's only a few hundred million for
the and when I say only a few hundred million
is a lot more than five hundred thousand, like many,
many times more, it's a few hundred million for pre
implementation work, but it's so there's probable not committed and
(19:08):
it's only and it's only only quote unquote thirty million
for Patoni to Granada for design work that is committed.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
So you're telling us right here and right now to
all our listeners in Wellington that the Patoni to Grenada
is not a done deal and the second amount Victoria
Tunnel is not Spades in the ground done deal.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Definitely not. And those projects will be will cost overall
billions and billions of dollars. And you know, the total
amount committed to Wellington in the next three year and
LTP is three billion dollars. So I mean, even if
they were only doing those two projects the full funding
when and that's normal. I'm just saying those projects are
years away from even commencing their starting point and the
(19:46):
government is still investigating an alternative tunnel in Wellington, which
is going to mean a big delay and probably one
hundred million dollars on consultants just to do the planning work.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
John, what are your thoughts? What are you hearing? You're
a stance man, You'll be all over this.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
I definitely am early in my political career, I did
campaign on Grenada, the Granada Road and the Link Road,
and I think it's it's relevant because it's it's the problem.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
Has got worse. To get to the heart it is.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
You know, if you look at it from a perspective
to two perspectives. One is that it will reduce that
bottleneck coming into the city. Second one is it provides
a natural resilience an event of a potentially big earthquake,
et cetera. So I really like that one. It's it's
a it will also unlock what.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
About the second Mount Victoria Tunnel? Sure you'd want that, Oh.
Speaker 5 (20:32):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
I think that's again but probably slight different perspective because
you know, in a in a city, regeneration something I'm
really quite keen on. And part of that if it's
if the tunnel goes.
Speaker 5 (20:44):
Actually underneath, it's even better because.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Well that's what they're still talking.
Speaker 5 (20:47):
Yeah, open up housing.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
This is what we want to do in the council
is in this area, make it more pleasant, more housing,
more people there, more vibrancy, more activity, Julia.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
And these are two big roads, you know, especially the
second Mount Victoria Tunnel and if you're talking about that
one that they're starting from the ten Rus, which you
know there's people working on. It's not like a pipe dream.
There's an organization now working on that second, that tunnel
that goes from the terrace right through to basically High
Tye Ti Kilbernie. I mean, how do you feel about
this as a Green person? Are the Green supporting it? Well?
Speaker 3 (21:22):
I mean I think it's I think it's funny because
here you are really upset and exercised about a few
hundred thousand dollars on bike parking and improvements to a
lane way, but apparently when it comes to moving cars,
people are happy to spend any amount of money, any
amount of money, no matter how low the benefits are. Like,
I mean, well, you can't tell unfundable. You you're saying
(21:44):
we have to save money.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I'm telling you you cannot compete.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
You're telling you the government's transport plans are absolutely unfundable.
And there's a really good article by Thomas Coughlin and
the Herald. I recommend people look at if you look
out ten years, they're talking about an extra six or
seven billion of Crown funding. That's you know, several that's
instead of hospitals and stead of schools every single year
out for you know, ten years out from now. So
(22:08):
this is you know, national are fiscally irresponsible and as
much as I know, people have been talking about these
roads forever. But if you really care about cost benefit analysis,
if you really care about the city, you got to say,
how do we spend the money in the most cost
effective way to give people what they need and what
they want? And the answer is public transport, bikes and
all that stuff, because that means the roads we already
(22:29):
have work much better and it's much lower cost, delivers
greater benefits to the city, cleaner air, you know, much
more thriving cities. That's how they do it overseas.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Yeah, I understand that. I think one of the funding scenario.
Of course, there has been a lot of discussion recently
about tolls, so this could be a toll road. I
was having that very discussion this morning with a couple
of the council officials and it's like, well, how could
that work for Wellington?
Speaker 5 (22:54):
Probably not.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
I mean the better example would have been Transmission Gully.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
That they should have been a totro go.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
I use that regularly and it is it's not the
greatest gradient in road, but it's works really well, saves
your time, gets you where you want to go. This
one hardcore because your people may just drive around it.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Fires keepers, losers weep as. I love the story. Tell
me whether you guys do. A christ Church couple discovered
two hundred and thirty thousand dollars cash in the ceiling
of a home they purchased in twenty twenty one. They
went and told the police who took it off them,
confiscated it off them and said it was the process
of crime from gain related former resident. Police went want
(23:36):
to seize the money and have it launded through the
court action, but the couple say they didn't sauce it
criminally and should be theirs. Jillian Gender, I've got no
idea what you're going to come back with this on
this one, I've got no Normally I can look at
you and say, I know what her view is going
to be on this. What should happen with the money?
Speaker 5 (23:54):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Well, first thing, I just wanted to say good on
them for telling the police in the first place, like
that's a responsible thing to do. But you know, America, ultimately,
I think now that they've done that when you know,
then you've got to follow the law and a court
will decide. And you know, I totally understand, be very lucky.
It's like winning the lotto to finding So what would
(24:15):
you have done that?
Speaker 2 (24:16):
What would you have done?
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Well, I'm a politician. I absolutely would have to turn
hand it over, It wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
I I was going to say, you said you're a politician,
I'm going to I'm going to stick it under my bed.
Shut it. No, I can't just lie about everything else
in your life. Why would you lie about the body?
That's what politicians do, don't they.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Well, not green politicians now, not myself. Now I think
I'm not you know, like I have to be better,
you know, than anyone else, because if I do anything wrong,
it comes under extreme spord.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Hopefully you're not going to get caught. That's the whole reason,
isn't it. Come on, John, tell us what you're going
to do. You just you're painting the ceiling.
Speaker 5 (24:46):
In my hand bike.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I ethically, I just wouldn't build a right bike ready.
Speaker 5 (24:53):
Half a bike wreck? Yeah I could. I just couldn't
do it.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
I'm my my chartered accountant will kick in with the
ethics and I'd be like, this is you know, it's
not my money, but it's an unusual thing to find
that amount of money and your and your ceiling.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
The problem is that the electrician found it. If there
was no one else involved, different story, isn't it. But
I suppose you guys are suppose saying you're goody two seasons,
doesn't matter, you're just going to do.
Speaker 5 (25:20):
The right wrecked with guilf If I did something with.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
That, what about just leaving it there? What about not
even touching it? Just leaving it there?
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Well, it's not worth anything, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (25:30):
There, it'd be worse.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Gosh, Yeah, you'd be worried. I'd be worried. If you
asked me what I would do? What would you do?
Speaker 5 (25:40):
Nick?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
I've thought about a lot, this a lot. If the
electrician wasn't involved, it's staying there. I'm not touching it.
But because the electricians involved, everyone knows. So you'd have
to do the right thing. So I'm a crooked. I'm bad. Really,
doesn't that's what it says, doesn't. It says that if
I wasn't going to get caught, I'm going to do
the crime.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
But you said you just leave it there.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah, I just leave it there.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Well, if you're not going to spend it, then I haven't.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Done anything wrong, I think. Can you be my lawyer?
Business closures? This is very sad and I'm very passionate
about this because obviously I'm in business in Weartington, trying
to do business in Wenington and hanging on by the
skin of my teeth. Like every business in Wellington is
last month, last fortnight. Even Egmont Street Deli great place
of at Edwards Floris and Tory Street another amazing place.
(26:26):
Individual these places are individually really good. Pandora has three
cafes closing at the end of business today, Clawley's, a
high end shop in Gusney Street and the service Depot
high End Street and Gusneys. John. I'm going to start
with you, do the council really give a damn? And
as we do? As Ethan said to me, I wonder
if the mayor has rung any of those shops or
(26:48):
any of those places and said, how are you well?
Speaker 5 (26:51):
We interact quite regularly with businesses. I definitely do.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
She set up the Mirror Business Group, which sort of
came out of the gold Mill. But that's a great
mechanism to understand like some of the issues that are there.
Speaker 5 (27:04):
And you've got dci.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Wong in there, you me got brock Shares's all these
entities are there, so we do care. How we how
we work with them as a council is probably the issue.
And it comes back to people going like, well, it's
you know, you're spending our money on frivolous things. So
we try and promote, We try and help them where
(27:30):
we can. We do some stuff with rates relief. Unfortunately
probably not a lot, not a lot, but you know
when we have entities like Wellington and Zed that are
there to promote Wellington and to do these things. I've
sort of touched base with a number of people from
the the the Courtney Place Revival group. They've got great
(27:51):
ideas the things that we should be doing, and I
really want to help them on that.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Julian gin to just quickly because I'm running out of
time and I want to go to hots and lots
with you guys. But what are your thoughts? I mean,
you're a welling Tonian by default. You know you're voted,
you're voted and men of Parliament through Wellington. Does this
concern Yeah?
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Absolutely, I'm extremely concerned and ultimately this question needs to
be directed to Nicola Willis, who's the Minister of Finance
and a Wellingtonian who's overseen thousands and thousands of job
losses in any other region. If there was that scale
of job losses, central government would intervene with some sort
of plan or relief funding. You know, think about the
(28:29):
aluminium smelter t y Point. You know that was like
what twelve hundred jobs and we've had successive governments giving
them tens of millions of dollars to stay open. Yet
and when it comes to Wellington, Nikola Willis and the
Coalition government are I mean taking pleasure at people losing
their livelihoods and with no plan or proposal to step
(28:50):
in to help support Wellington. And I think it's disgraceful.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
John. I'd like to give you one little bit of advice.
Council needs to open the doors. Council needs to be
a yes counsel. Oh, if you want to help businesses,
make it easy to get a license, make it easy
to get a permit, make it easy for developers and
builders and plumbers and electricians, make it easier.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
I do agree, and some of it we do, we can.
We try hard and we've got mechanisms that we're using.
But remember some of the stuff is not but not
from us, it's from yes, central government.
Speaker 5 (29:24):
We can't change a whole bunch of things. Willy Lilly
the Friday Facer.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Hot come on and Julia and Gene to give us
you'r hot first.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
I think the incredible ceremony and burial of Kinny to
hate your was just incredible up in outside of Raglan
and Narawahia. And now we've had the crowning of the
new female Mari monarch, who's queen not Queenie. I should
say now, why hono? Incredible?
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Well did well said? And you're not hot ah?
Speaker 3 (30:04):
The public sector layoffs. Actually, I was going to talk
about the government texting South Korean officials less than an
hour before the announcement of canceling the Fairies. That was
really poor form and very very embarrassing for New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Wow, that's incredible, Hots and not for you John.
Speaker 5 (30:22):
Thanks Nick. Hot spring isn't it great?
Speaker 4 (30:26):
So nice to walk here and just have sunshine? We
don't have a great spring in Wellington, you know.
Speaker 5 (30:32):
Wow. Even though you may not.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
Be I'm a fan of well It is great my
first time last year.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Absolutely, Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of
well I just you know, it costs us a lot
of money.
Speaker 5 (30:41):
All that stuff is going to come through. It's to
be it's gonna be a good spring.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Okay, you're not hot.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
I'll pick a council one because we talked, we debated
it this week, Johnsonville Moore. It's like, oh, you know,
that's an example of something that has not happened in
Wellington and really needs to be fixed and done so.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
And you want to know it. Can I just quickly
exause I've only got one second. I've got to go.
But do you want to the council to jump in
or you just want it to let the builders the
owners know that you want something done.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Well, well I think we'd let them know what's something done.
We're just working through how we can do it.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Okay, John and Tenovic Eprey Panovitch. I got I got done.
I got tired at the end of the show and
got it wrong. Sorry, I apologize for it. And Julianne
Jent are great to have you both and great to
see you again. Juliana, I haven't seen you for a long time.
So great to see you on the show again and
keep up the good work both of you.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Lovely to see you bye bye.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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