September 8, 2024 • 9 mins
An acclaimed Wellington writer has a new show.
Elspeth Sandys's The Body Politic is now showing at Circa Theatre.
She told Nick Mills the show is a classic drama set in an apartment complex in Thorndon in 2021, where the small dramas between the owners mirror the larger political issues of our world.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk sed B.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
As I tease during the show, we've got a very
special guest that's joining us. She's an acclaimed writer, Elsabeth Sanders,
and she's written novels, plays and short stories. And she's
the writer of The Body Politic. It's on at Circa
Theater right now.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
It's good morning, first morning.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Hi, how are you very well? Thank you?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
You want to tell our listeners who your famous daughters,
because I've been teasing it that you're the mother of
someone that's on the show a lot.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Yes, I'm the mother of the more famous Josie Pagani.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I don't know about more famous equally as famous.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Oh no, no, she outstrips me.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Okay, I want to I want to find out a
little bit about you before I find out about this play,
because I've meet you before, Josie, but I knew nothing
about your writing esteemed writing career.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
So tell us how it started and tell us a
little bit about yourself.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
Oh well, it started because I wanted to be an actor,
and I started out as an actor, but then I
married an actor, and having two actors in the same
family and bringing up children doesn't work terribly easily, so
I took up writing. So it was it was my
second choice, and in writing plays now I've come back
(01:26):
to my original love of theater. But I've been a
novelist most of my life.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Tell me how someone becomes a novelist. How are you actually?
When did you sit down and write your first novel?
How does it work? How much time do you spend
on it? Give us a little bit of an insight
into it.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Well, actually I started out I wrote a novel about
the poet John Dunne, and we were living in England
at the time, and the BBC had commissioned me to
write a play, you know, radio play about John Dunne.
So from that I wrote wrote a novel and then
for a little while I wrote mainly historical novels, but
(02:01):
then I slowly crept up to the present day.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yeah, I know through Josie that you're I wouldn't say highly,
but you're definitely politically motivated.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
Yes, absolutely, I think we're a very political family, certainly
the Pagani family are. Yes. Yes, yes, I've got a
strong strong sense of social justice. I mean, I hate
the way capitalism has morphed in the last decades into
something that seems to give all the goodies to a
(02:34):
handful of people and leave the rest of the world struggling.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Now, you might not know this, but I'm going to
tell you that I've used your not your name, but
I've used you as a reference a few times because
on the show once Josie said quite uply and openly
that her mum has been a staunch labor supporter all
her life and now she's gone to Green's.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Is that still happening, this naughty Josie.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
She's politically out of you.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Yes, absolutely, and I will continue to vote Green as
long as Labor don't have a capital gains tax or
a decent tax policy. They just seemed to me to
be very social democrat, not really visionary, or those the
Greens who don't have a hope of becoming the government,
but they do have a social justice policy. Right.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
I found out everything I need to fight out about
me personally down. No, No, you can tell us Dolly
about this play, because I'm hearing huge stories about It's
on Circa right now. It's a drama set in the
Thornton apartment complex. Why Thornton and why an apartment complex
tell us a bit about the play.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Well, I live in an apartment complex, so I don't
live in Thornton, And it struck me. We have body
called meetings and we discussed how we're going to spend
money and so on, and it struck me that it
was a perfect microcosm of democracy because it's very, very
hard to get agreement. Our complex is quite small, so
(04:01):
you always know if there's somebody who's absolutely not going
to agree in no matter how you compromise. And I
began to think, you know, as democracy just not workable,
how do you if you've got a toxic person or
a toxic idea, how do you make it work? And then,
of course the rise and rise and let's hope fall
of Trump kind of brought it all into focus. So
(04:24):
I decided to write a play about people living in
close proximity where you have to get on because your neighbors,
and use that as a microcosm for how democracy seems
to me to be failing around the world.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
How does it work in your body cor Because I'm
a member of a body corp and I would openly
say that I will never ever do one again.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yes, I think I did research and ask a lot
of people who are living in that kind of situation,
so I got a lot of information. A lot of
people sell up because they just can't bear the antagonism
and the build up of tension and bad feeling and
so on.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
So insurance costs and writes.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
Absolutely rates during cost earthquake strengthening.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
There's a biggin that's another whole world.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
But you're right your play right now? It would you
say that it's true to life or is it just
an idea that you just thought, Oh, well, I can
make this into a story that people will like to
go along and watch.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Well, I think in any play your you're concentrating ideas
and situations. It's not the way the way things happen.
They happen rather fast in my play, because you've got
to have a beginning, middle, and end. But in real
life the issues and the play would have been stretched
out over a longer period of time.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
I think, how many times have you seen the play?
Speaker 4 (05:44):
I've only seen the full production once, and I was
totally blown away because I wasn't involved. And after the
initial rehearsal process and when we got the script right,
I stayed away because it's their gig, not mine. But
so it's a wonderful cast. I have been enormously lucky
with my director and cast.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
You've had a long and storied writing career. Pardon the pun.
Is writing being your career? And what's your highlight?
Speaker 4 (06:14):
That's a hard one. Well, I know why it's been
my career. It's the it's the Graham Green thing that
people who can't afford therapy write novels. Yeah, it's it's
my therapy.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
It's my Are you still writing down?
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Yes? Yes, I've got another play almost ready to go
and a novel coming out next year.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I'm going to ask Josie if I can go out
for a coffee with you sometimes I want to write
a book one time. Well, go for I can't but
I can't spell? Does that matter?
Speaker 4 (06:42):
That doesn't matter. All Churchill couldn't spell.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Ye.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
It was actually a very good writer.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
That's I mean. His background was writing, wasn't he?
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (06:52):
And painting? He was multi talented.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Actually, what do you prefer novels or scripts? And how
are they different?
Speaker 4 (06:59):
Oh? They're very different because novels give you a chance
to philosophize and meditate and deal with scenery and how
things look and so on. I think I'm I most
like writing for theater. I love writing for actors.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
You know.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
I just how long would hear voices in my head?
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Sorry?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I know I'm just flicking these things because my head's
working quite quickly too. How long would it take you
if you had a great idea? How long would it
take you from start to finish? Oh?
Speaker 4 (07:26):
The body politic only talk about six weeks. It just
sort of came fully formed, and then we did workshops
and readings and it it got better. And then my
wonderful director slashed and burned a lot of words, which was.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Which was there to support you?
Speaker 4 (07:41):
Would you at all?
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Because my producer does that to me every day?
Speaker 4 (07:44):
Does he?
Speaker 2 (07:45):
I write my intros and I think I've got to
write and it's not even what I wrote?
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Doesn't it doesn't he respect your your brilliance? Is No?
My director didn't either.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
I feel a better now better about myself, wob No.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Andrew was absolutely right, and I think we I argued
about over maybe two lines that I wanted to keep.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Did you have anything you said that's it?
Speaker 1 (08:09):
No?
Speaker 4 (08:09):
No, I I just trusted the process and the result
is I think a very tight, fast moving play with
no spare fat on it.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Great, lovely to see you again, Amazing to see you,
and I think that you're obviously an amazing woman with
an amazing daughter. So The Body Politic is on now
at Circa Theater, and I'll tell you what. Anyone that's
got have had anything to do with any sort of
body corp stuff, you must go and see this play
because we've all had. Every one of us who have
(08:42):
had anything to do with that would have had problems,
wouldn't they.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
The Body Politics on now at Circa Theater until September
twenty first Tickets on sale from circuit dot co, dot
z Elsbeth Sands.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Nice to see you, Nice to see you, Nick.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Thank you for more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills.
Listen live to news talks It'd Be Wellington from nine
am WED, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk sed B.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
As I tease during the show, we've got a very
special guest that's joining us. She's an acclaimed writer, Elsabeth Sanders,
and she's written novels, plays and short stories. And she's
the writer of The Body Politic. It's on at Circa
Theater right now.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
It's good morning, first morning.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Hi, how are you very well? Thank you?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
You want to tell our listeners who your famous daughters,
because I've been teasing it that you're the mother of
someone that's on the show a lot.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Yes, I'm the mother of the more famous Josie Pagani.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I don't know about more famous equally as famous.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Oh no, no, she outstrips me.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Okay, I want to I want to find out a
little bit about you before I find out about this play,
because I've meet you before, Josie, but I knew nothing
about your writing esteemed writing career.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
So tell us how it started and tell us a
little bit about yourself.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
Oh well, it started because I wanted to be an actor,
and I started out as an actor, but then I
married an actor, and having two actors in the same
family and bringing up children doesn't work terribly easily, so
I took up writing. So it was it was my
second choice, and in writing plays now I've come back
(01:26):
to my original love of theater. But I've been a
novelist most of my life.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Tell me how someone becomes a novelist. How are you actually?
When did you sit down and write your first novel?
How does it work? How much time do you spend
on it? Give us a little bit of an insight
into it.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Well, actually I started out I wrote a novel about
the poet John Dunne, and we were living in England
at the time, and the BBC had commissioned me to
write a play, you know, radio play about John Dunne.
So from that I wrote wrote a novel and then
for a little while I wrote mainly historical novels, but
(02:01):
then I slowly crept up to the present day.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yeah, I know through Josie that you're I wouldn't say highly,
but you're definitely politically motivated.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
Yes, absolutely, I think we're a very political family, certainly
the Pagani family are. Yes. Yes, yes, I've got a
strong strong sense of social justice. I mean, I hate
the way capitalism has morphed in the last decades into
something that seems to give all the goodies to a
(02:34):
handful of people and leave the rest of the world struggling.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Now, you might not know this, but I'm going to
tell you that I've used your not your name, but
I've used you as a reference a few times because
on the show once Josie said quite uply and openly
that her mum has been a staunch labor supporter all
her life and now she's gone to Green's.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Is that still happening, this naughty Josie.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
She's politically out of you.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Yes, absolutely, and I will continue to vote Green as
long as Labor don't have a capital gains tax or
a decent tax policy. They just seemed to me to
be very social democrat, not really visionary, or those the
Greens who don't have a hope of becoming the government,
but they do have a social justice policy. Right.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
I found out everything I need to fight out about
me personally down. No, No, you can tell us Dolly
about this play, because I'm hearing huge stories about It's
on Circa right now. It's a drama set in the
Thornton apartment complex. Why Thornton and why an apartment complex
tell us a bit about the play.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Well, I live in an apartment complex, so I don't
live in Thornton, And it struck me. We have body
called meetings and we discussed how we're going to spend
money and so on, and it struck me that it
was a perfect microcosm of democracy because it's very, very
hard to get agreement. Our complex is quite small, so
(04:01):
you always know if there's somebody who's absolutely not going
to agree in no matter how you compromise. And I
began to think, you know, as democracy just not workable,
how do you if you've got a toxic person or
a toxic idea, how do you make it work? And then,
of course the rise and rise and let's hope fall
of Trump kind of brought it all into focus. So
(04:24):
I decided to write a play about people living in
close proximity where you have to get on because your neighbors,
and use that as a microcosm for how democracy seems
to me to be failing around the world.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
How does it work in your body cor Because I'm
a member of a body corp and I would openly
say that I will never ever do one again.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yes, I think I did research and ask a lot
of people who are living in that kind of situation,
so I got a lot of information. A lot of
people sell up because they just can't bear the antagonism
and the build up of tension and bad feeling and
so on.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
So insurance costs and writes.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
Absolutely rates during cost earthquake strengthening.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
There's a biggin that's another whole world.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
But you're right your play right now? It would you
say that it's true to life or is it just
an idea that you just thought, Oh, well, I can
make this into a story that people will like to
go along and watch.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Well, I think in any play your you're concentrating ideas
and situations. It's not the way the way things happen.
They happen rather fast in my play, because you've got
to have a beginning, middle, and end. But in real
life the issues and the play would have been stretched
out over a longer period of time.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
I think, how many times have you seen the play?
Speaker 4 (05:44):
I've only seen the full production once, and I was
totally blown away because I wasn't involved. And after the
initial rehearsal process and when we got the script right,
I stayed away because it's their gig, not mine. But
so it's a wonderful cast. I have been enormously lucky
with my director and cast.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
You've had a long and storied writing career. Pardon the pun.
Is writing being your career? And what's your highlight?
Speaker 4 (06:14):
That's a hard one. Well, I know why it's been
my career. It's the it's the Graham Green thing that
people who can't afford therapy write novels. Yeah, it's it's
my therapy.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
It's my Are you still writing down?
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Yes? Yes, I've got another play almost ready to go
and a novel coming out next year.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I'm going to ask Josie if I can go out
for a coffee with you sometimes I want to write
a book one time. Well, go for I can't but
I can't spell? Does that matter?
Speaker 4 (06:42):
That doesn't matter. All Churchill couldn't spell.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Ye.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
It was actually a very good writer.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
That's I mean. His background was writing, wasn't he?
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (06:52):
And painting? He was multi talented.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Actually, what do you prefer novels or scripts? And how
are they different?
Speaker 4 (06:59):
Oh? They're very different because novels give you a chance
to philosophize and meditate and deal with scenery and how
things look and so on. I think I'm I most
like writing for theater. I love writing for actors.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
You know.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
I just how long would hear voices in my head?
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Sorry?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I know I'm just flicking these things because my head's
working quite quickly too. How long would it take you
if you had a great idea? How long would it
take you from start to finish? Oh?
Speaker 4 (07:26):
The body politic only talk about six weeks. It just
sort of came fully formed, and then we did workshops
and readings and it it got better. And then my
wonderful director slashed and burned a lot of words, which was.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Which was there to support you?
Speaker 4 (07:41):
Would you at all?
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Because my producer does that to me every day?
Speaker 4 (07:44):
Does he?
Speaker 2 (07:45):
I write my intros and I think I've got to
write and it's not even what I wrote?
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Doesn't it doesn't he respect your your brilliance? Is No?
My director didn't either.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
I feel a better now better about myself, wob No.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Andrew was absolutely right, and I think we I argued
about over maybe two lines that I wanted to keep.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Did you have anything you said that's it?
Speaker 1 (08:09):
No?
Speaker 4 (08:09):
No, I I just trusted the process and the result
is I think a very tight, fast moving play with
no spare fat on it.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Great, lovely to see you again, Amazing to see you,
and I think that you're obviously an amazing woman with
an amazing daughter. So The Body Politic is on now
at Circa Theater, and I'll tell you what. Anyone that's
got have had anything to do with any sort of
body corp stuff, you must go and see this play
because we've all had. Every one of us who have
(08:42):
had anything to do with that would have had problems,
wouldn't they.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
The Body Politics on now at Circa Theater until September
twenty first Tickets on sale from circuit dot co, dot
z Elsbeth Sands.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Nice to see you, Nice to see you, Nick.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Thank you for more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills.
Listen live to news talks It'd Be Wellington from nine
am WED, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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