September 15, 2024 • 31 mins
Wellington City Council is investigating offering $1500 'micro-grants' to businesses affected by roading changes - but is this figure meaningful?
And how is the mood of Wellington? We know it's bad, but is there an element of the city feeling sorry for itself?
Those were some of the questions for the Business Panel this week, with Lowe & Co managing director Craig Lowe and Small Acorns owner Amanda Holland.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
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Speaker 2 (00:11):
Said, b.
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Speaker 3 (00:22):
Let's get down, let's get downs. Give you monnight monight, characters,
you've had a million million night's just like person.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
It's business now. We joined every couple of weeks on
a Monday, joining us for the business panel. This week
it's Craig Low, managing director of Low and Co Realty.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Morning, Craig morning, How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
How are you feeling? Are you positive?
Speaker 5 (00:47):
I'm as positive as I can possibly be. Nick, And
it's great to see you. Have to say great to
see you in person, because last time we did this,
you weren't so I was hiding away. You were working
for home, which we might be talking about today.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
So let's not talk about where you can. Vogue and
Amanda Holland, owner of Small Acons A small Acorns. Why
do I call acorns?
Speaker 6 (01:03):
I don't know. We get little acorns, we get something.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I'm blessed her it Also she owns Squirrel Cafe, which
is right next door, which she had a little bit
of space next door. She built a cafe, very successful cafe.
I want to start with both of you this morning
on trying to be a little bit more positive. I
want to do something different. We have a lot of
discussions last week about whether Wellington's dying. The Business panel
in the last few months has been quite negative. We're
(01:30):
in a tough spot right now. And I read Thomas
Coglan's article on the hero and I kind of think
he's right in a lot of ways. He kept on
saying that we're beating ourselves up, We're making it difficult
on ourselves, and it's self perpetulating. So if we get
up in the morning and we brush our teeth and
we say we're going to have a ship day to
day and nothing's going to go right, guess what we'll
have that Craig, I want to start with you. Sure,
(01:52):
is there an element in our city? You're dealing with
people right across the board. Is there an element of
people in our city that are just feeling sorry for himself?
Speaker 5 (02:01):
It's a great question. I think that there is real
There are people really are doing it tough. There's no
doubt about it. I think it isn't where it's not
just people's imagination. But I also think you're right about
having a positive attitude is more important having a negative one,
and we can end up as a danger, we end
up in a you know, sort of echo chamber of
negativity that that just won't help, right, But we need
we need things to focus on. We need purpose, we
(02:21):
need reasons to get out of there. We need ways
to make it better that are inspiring. And that's and
that's going to come from positive activity, not from negativity.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Okay, Amanda, welcome. Do you think it's as bad as
what everyone's making out Well, I.
Speaker 6 (02:35):
Think I agree with Craig, there's no doubt about it.
It's probably the hardest that it's ever been for businesses
now in Wellington. But I'm the same. I think we
need to remember that we live in a great city,
a great creative city that's always been renowned for its
cafe culture. It's creative culture, it's theatrical culture, and we
(02:55):
just need to, you know, remember that and stay positive
and get through this bit.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I want to ask you this question because when I
did some research, I didn't realize that your business has
been going for over thirty years. I mean that's thirty
two years amazing.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Congratulations.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
You must have started when you were nine? Did you
leave school? Did you leave go straight to private school?
During your due shop something? And it's always been known
by you. Yes, your dream, your idea.
Speaker 6 (03:23):
Yep, I started it, yeah, thirty two years ago. But
we've moved around the city. We started in Kilbernie, We've
been in two premises in Willis Street, in Featherston Street
and now where we are in Blair Street.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Why do you move around chasing that cheap rent?
Speaker 6 (03:38):
Well, you know actually and from Kilbernie, I had big
dreams of you know, being a CBD retailer and then
eventually reality caught up with me. And to be honest,
if we hadn't move to Blair Street, we wouldn't be around.
That's the reality. The rents were so high becoming higher,
and so we moved again to you know, a lovely
character space that's more destination.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
So, Mada, you have a great, a great feel for
the chart.
Speaker 5 (04:01):
You know, you know how this kind of recessionary environment,
if you want to call it, that compares to others
and you know how, you know, how how does this
compare over the thirty two years you've been doing it.
Speaker 6 (04:12):
I definitely think it's you know, I feel personally, I'm
working harder than I've ever worked in my life to
try and stay sort of ten steps ahead of what's
going on out there, and to keep my store interesting
and relevant and fresh. You know, even thirty two years,
you have to remember, have new customers coming along all
the time that I've never heard of you. So that's
a great opportunity. I think most Wellington independent retailers are
(04:36):
in that same mindset.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
But do you I mean, it's a great question, Creigan
one while I was getting one I had on my list,
but you stole it from me. You want to be
the host as well as the expert. But I mean,
is it as bad as it's ever been in thirty years?
Speaker 6 (04:49):
I think it's tough. I mean we're okay hopefully touchwood today,
but you know, there, for the grace of God, go ay.
It's kind of a saying one d P about each
time I walk past a site that's empty or closing
or you know, it's sad, it's really sad.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah, I'm glad you say that. It's I do too,
And whenever I walk past the light switch, I say
it's so easy you can be turned on a wharf, right,
I mean, how do you think it is? Do you
think it's as bad as since you've been in business?
Speaker 5 (05:15):
Well, I love, Well, it's a good question. I mean, really,
this has been the toughest real estate correction, speaking specifically
about real estate that that I've experienced in twenty five
years that since I got my real estate license, no
doubt about that. It's been when we had twenty six
percent correction and prices into forty percent drop in volumes.
And you know, as it from a business, from an
agent perspective, that's terrible. From a business perspective, you're fixed,
(05:36):
over heads, don't go down when you when you're when
you're your revenue drops by forty percent. So it's been
super tough for last few years. And you know, and
I think we had it a bit earlier perhaps in
the rest of the economy, and we've probably perhaps come
past the bottom a little bit earlier too.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
But yeah, are you seeing a positive Are you seeing
any signs of positive that he's creeping back. We've already
had the first you know, interest rate drop, well, you know,
the reserve bank drop. So that's going to translate with
you fascinating.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
Yeah, so it's a great question. So what we've seen
is really interesting.
Speaker 5 (06:07):
We've actually seen the spring rush that typically comes to
this time of Yain and we have a truckload of
properly start heading in the market. We've seen that just
be delayed, like not as many houses hit in the market.
And I suspect this is a gut feel, but it's
quite counterintuitive, but I suspect a lot of potential sellers
saw the interest rate decline in the DOP plot from
the Reserve Bank and the people saying it's going to
better next year, and so what do they do. They
(06:28):
put their decision on hold, which means less house to
the market. And it's kind of interesting because what happens
then is you get a lack of supply, and so
now we're actually seeing multi office situations all of a sudden.
So things are picking up from the perspective of it's
actually a bit easier to sell a house today, and
I think the next couple of months that will be
the case. But there's actually less houses going to be
sold just because no one's putting the house on the market.
(06:50):
So we're kind of bumping around on the bottom. I
would say, it's probably the best way to characterize it.
You know, we're not but yeah, less houses coming to markets,
people waiting to next year.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Now, Amanda happened to Amanda, How are you getting people
a new store? How are you getting people walking in
your door? How do you get them to walk in
your door?
Speaker 6 (07:07):
Well that's the thing, you know, the days of long
gone where you can just open your doors and expect
people to come in. That just doesn't happen anymore. I
think that, you know, after covid was great in terms
of it introduced people to the world of online. Some
of my customers anyway, we had to really help them
through it.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
But how did Can I just interrupt you there slightly?
Because your stuff is very specialized. If I'm looking for
a coffee table or a war unit, or you know,
a house house thing to make my house look better,
what's your shop is? How do you how do you
get that feel online?
Speaker 6 (07:37):
Well, that's that's the million dollar question. I try really
hard to make our website represent the store as closely
as possible, because personally, I really don't like it when
you go to a store and it doesn't reflect what's
online and vice versa. But you know, you have to
spend a lot of time with your social media. You
spend a lot of time with your email list, You
(07:58):
spend a lot of time just being nice to people,
replying to every email, replying to every comment, just to
you know, stay front of mind.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
Can I make a point about state of Wellington that
is that we're not the only one struggling, you know,
I mean even around the world. I mean you look
at you know, San Francisco. Thirty seven percent office vacancy
in San Francisco and it's unbelievable, right, Like, to imagine
thirty seven percent office vacancy. I don't think we're We're not.
We're not even close to that in Wellington. So you know,
there are people doing it tough all over and we're not.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Why are we? Why are we that city? I mean
that's what I started this segment off. Why are we
that city where you know, Auckland's doing it tough, Melbourne's
doing it tough, Sydney's doing it tough. Yeah, we need
to you know, before the Olympics, Paris was doing it ton.
Why are we so oh poor us?
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Well?
Speaker 5 (08:42):
I think maybe it's pride, you know, call us a
little call us capital in the world. And you know,
we're very proud, proud citizens Walingonians. And I think it
hurts that walked along the street and see you know,
the war we see and I mean we we, I
mean we need to start with thinking about the people
who have nowhere to live for a start, you know,
we need to support the people at the very bottom
(09:02):
as well and think think strongly about that, which is
why you know, support the One City Mission because they
do incredible work in that space. But beyond that, once
you go past that, I mean, people are very proud
of their city. And as you mentioned, which is a
great point, Amanda, is we have incredible competitive advantages or
comparative advantages that I think you'd say, compared to to
other cities, with our natural geography, the beautiful city that
(09:24):
we live in, the nice constrained nature. It's a fun
city because it's like you know, it's surrounded by hills
and it's got that lovely.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Constrained feeling about it.
Speaker 5 (09:33):
And and yeah, and then there are there are a
confluence of factors that have made it tough. And it's
not it's not imagined, but it's also we're not the
only ones, and if.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
You take the weather out of it, Amanda, I mean,
I remember doing this very show with somebody.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
I'm trying to think of it.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
As fran Wild. I think it was fran Wild who said,
you know, if Wellington had great weather, none of us
would be able to afford to live here.
Speaker 6 (09:55):
No, that's probably true, but you know, you still, I
still you know, you come down that now wrong a
gorge and you get that first glimpse of the harbor
and it's magical. You know, it's a really beautiful city,
even on a terrible day. To be honest, I mean,
it's not ideal to be wandering around out here today,
but you know, it's a beautiful city.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
And just really really quickly, both of you. Do you
think that we made too much of the government cuts? Cuts?
Do you think we've made We just want to push
that as a narrative because it's easy to do.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Yes, I think I think it's as playing a role
as a as a variable that's there.
Speaker 5 (10:28):
But there are so many variables going on right now,
high interest rates, work from home, you know, the general
state of the global economy, as well as as you know,
government cuts, and I think we have made a bigger
deal with it. We haven't seen a lot in the
real estate game. We haven't seen a huge amount of
that affecting you know, people, people selling up and going on.
(10:49):
It's a veriable but it's it's only very, very small
a minute.
Speaker 6 (10:51):
Amanda, Yeah, i'd agree. I think it is. It's one fact.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Only, Amanda. I want to start with you on this.
Over the last three weeks we've heard a ten businesses closes,
ranging from retail to hospitality. What are the biggest challenges
facing businesses in the Wellington CBD right now?
Speaker 6 (11:09):
I think we need to remember it's not just those
ten businesses. There've been some other quiet closures over the
last couple of months. Good Books, Twigger and Arrow, Cranfields, Wishbone, Avid,
they've all gone. So they're all our To be honest,
I think they were the best stores in Wellington. They
were our independent, iconic retailers and gave the city its
(11:32):
character and that's what we're losing. It's stressful thinking about
it actually, because you know, these people have invested all
their life savings, all their own money in their own business.
It's a dream. As well as the financial cost, it's
their dream. Well that's how it is for me, and
if you lose it, it's really tragic and sad.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
And some people means they lose.
Speaker 6 (11:56):
Their home, absolutely, they lose.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Everything everything for their dream to make our city better.
I mean they're trying to make money, but it's you know,
you don't open your store every Monday morning to make money.
You open your store because you want to open it.
You believe in what you're doing. And if you make money,
that's a byproduct of it. And I'm sure Craig, you'd
be exactly the same. You know, at the end of
the day, your dream is to have your name on
(12:20):
the door and sell as many properties and give everyone
the best experience they possibly can. If you make money, great.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
I agree.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
Yeah, No, business, business is not just making money. It's
about about community and it's about about having giving people
purpose and being able to reinvest in the things that
are important to you.
Speaker 6 (12:38):
I think I'm lucky. I've got, you know, some really
lovely loyal customers who have followed us across the years.
And you know, if they come in for a hand
cream or a bunch of flowers, or a cake of
so let alone a sofa or a cushion, you know,
You're just lucky to see them, and most of them
are really concerned that we'll still be there at the moment.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
We are going to talk about moving and going out
into the suburbs in the hour. But Craig, you don't
actually have to be in the CBD, I mean construction.
Those who don't know where your officers are there with
the old Flanagan's hotel right on the corner of Cambridge
Kent Terrace, Courtney Place called or what you want? You're
right when the bulldozers come in, they go and pass
(13:18):
your front door.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
Yeah, young, young young people remember Sandwiches next Flanigan?
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Sorry, but well you do what you do? What I mean,
you still knew what I was talking about, even though
you're like, yo, what would you have thought of bed
or if you thought of that site?
Speaker 6 (13:35):
Actually probably couldn't remember Sandwich's name, but I definitely you
remember going there Flanagan's.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Yeah, right, So back to the point the bulldozers were
starting outside your office.
Speaker 5 (13:46):
Yeah, I mean it's such a tough one. I mean,
I feel conflicted on this because I really feel strongly
that Courtney Place needs to clean up. You know that
that you know, I walk along the pavement there and
my feet feels like my shoes are sticking to the pavement,
and you know, and it.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Just but they won't change with a new piece of concretent. Yeah,
nine six months later. It's about maintenance, keeping it clean,
but carry on.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
So but I just feel like that whole area, you know,
to me, does need to clean up. But I also
feel like the timing just as atrocious. And I don't
know what the answer is for all of our businesses
that are in that area in terms of walking in.
But you're right, we don't have to be in the CBD.
It is good for us to be in the city.
We need good arterial routes to get in and out
of the city to northwest, east and south. But aside
(14:29):
from that, we don't have to be in the CBY.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Do you spend that time I'm sorry, I'm going to
difflect a little bit here, Amanda, but do you spend
that time like the old days where you actually meet
people at properties or do you do it all through
open homes? And is there still a lot of that.
I'll meet you there at four o'clock, so.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Yep, one percent, yep, No, We're we're very active. You know,
the agents have got to be in and out and
be able to get to properties and get to every
suburb in Wellington within ten minutes, which is again one
of the things we love about Wellington being so constrained
in the city, being really central to every suburb you can,
we can get everywhere from where we are.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
It's great.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
It's a great location for that and that and that
will be disrupted a bit with all the chaos it's
about to ensue, for sure.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Amanda, have you actually thought I mean, I know, I
think I know that know you reasonably well, you're in
a position where you could close the door tomorrow and
your life wouldn't change. Really, I mean, you've got you know,
you know, but well, I mean you know you perceived,
so you know, have you actually thought about closing and
giving up? No?
Speaker 6 (15:20):
Never, I couldn't beat to think about closing and giving
up because I'm not done. I don't have My husband's
always asking me what my exit strategy is, and I
don't have one, which is probably not good either.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
But do you know, do true entrepreneurs have an exit strategy?
People ask me the same thing. Okay, you know, even
though I'm a lot older than both of you. I
haven't got an exit strategy either, because I love what
I'm doing, So why have I got an exit strategy?
Do I want to retire?
Speaker 4 (15:44):
No? If you've got an exit straa they'll be wheeling
me out. And it was an oxygen tank and a
wheelchair and I love it. I mean, you've got a purpose,
you got a reason get out of the bed in
the morning.
Speaker 6 (15:53):
Absolutely, I can't imagine what.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
Yeah, it's exciting for me and I just love doing
cool stuff with cool people. That's what I loved all about.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Roading charges on Thornton keya continue despite the protest of
many businesses, but counsel to investigate, investigate fifteen hundred dollars
worth of micro grants for the affected business Amanda. If
you owned a business on Thornton Key and you had
your life completely disrupted and they offered you fifteen hundred dollars,
what would you say to.
Speaker 6 (16:21):
Them, Well, you know, you don't want to look a
gift horse in the mouth. But the fact that they
think fifteen hundred dollars goes anywhere near to appease some
of what those businesses must be going through is incredulous
to me. You know it tells me that they're out
of touch.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
One of the counselors rang me the day before. I'm
not going to say who. One of the counsels ran me,
said we're thinking of doing this. I said, don't do it,
and they said why. I said, because it's embarrassing. Fifteen
hundred dollars to those businesses. Is just you know, if
they came to U Craig and said, we're going to
rip the hell out of the front, which we are,
and by the way, we'll give you fifteen hundred dollars,
I know what you would say. I would almost guarantee
(16:59):
that I don't know you that well, you'd say give
it to Saint John's. We'll give it to someone you
know that's not going to help my business.
Speaker 6 (17:04):
Yeah, it just tells me that they're out of step
with how much it costs to open and stock and
staff and all their ongoing costs that aren't going away
while it is just so impossible down there. I just
feel so sorry for those businesses.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Well, they're going to be feeling sorry for you shortly
because you're going to have it in your front door
as well.
Speaker 6 (17:26):
Yeah. That petrifies me, if I'm honest, does it. Yeah, absolutely,
it really does.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
And even though you know you're on Blair Street very
clearly that you know, acorns and squirrel will actually not
get affected directly because it's constructions are way away from
your front door, you still scares you that much.
Speaker 6 (17:45):
Yeah, it does, because I know it will affect us.
You know, the traffic coming down, having to go down
Wakefield Street will be absolutely crawling, It'll be stuck, it
won't be going anywhere. Customers I just think will not
bother to even attempt to come. And I think that
it will affect us, definitely will affect us.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Craig, on the other hand of this whole thing, right,
you'll be looking at it because I know that you're
figures and man man and you work on all everything's
number thing to you. You'll be looking at and going
can the council really afford to be actually giving money
away to businesses?
Speaker 5 (18:19):
I totally agree with what a man to say. It
it's it's it's a it's a joke really.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
And it's it's insulting.
Speaker 5 (18:24):
And I think that you know, for seen hundred bucks
is just not going to do anything, and and so
that they might as well keep it and do something
more productive with the money. If they if they're going
to proceed with what they're doing with the routing changes,
they should just keep that money and do something else
with it and make the decisions be done with it.
But but ultimately, you know, they they really feels like
the empathy for for businesses business right now is it
(18:45):
the lowest point and and right at the wrong time
for that. We we we need to you know, cheap
funding for small businesses.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
We need it.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
We need capital investment in our city from from business
and this is what we need to get the business
the city thriving.
Speaker 6 (19:00):
You know, less bureaucracy, not you know all of that's.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
Fifteen hundred and no parking outside.
Speaker 6 (19:09):
Yeah, business ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I mean, if you're a business in Thornton right now,
what would you be thinking.
Speaker 6 (19:16):
One of my customers tell me last week that she
tried to go to a business down there six times
and gave up because she she just couldn't find anywhere
to park or stop and she just had to go away.
Six times she attempted to go to this business.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I've said it quite a few times. I'm building a
place at the moment, and we've been buying a lot
of lighting, and we use a shop in Thornton right
the end of Thornton Key for the lights. Got a
great My wife's got a great relationship with the person
it sells and the work passle for her to go
and buy the stuff. There is immense can't find a park,
(19:52):
you know, there's a couple of shot parks outside the
front of the shop. But it's just incredibly hard. But
you've got to stay loyal to.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
Them, don't you.
Speaker 6 (20:00):
You do have to stay loyal to them. But I
just feel so sorry for them because it just must
be sold. Drawing what they're going through all the time.
It's a nightmare down there.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Let's talk about a nightmare that's coming close to us.
I mean, all three of us, all three of us
are right in the middle of the Golden Mile where
it's going to start. Craig, I want to start with you.
You know, given given the economic struggles, and we've talked
about it for the last forty minutes, is at the
right time for the council to actually say to themselves, actually,
(20:34):
let's push we need to do it. We all agree
we need to do it. We all agree that we
need to tidy up and the Golden Mile. But is
the timing right right now? It's a really hard question
to answer, and I think I think. I mean, I'm
not an eurven planner, and I'm not going to profess
to have the answers. And one thing I would say is,
I think all the stakeholders that are involved in these decisions,
I think they're generally speaking there, everyone's heart's in the
(20:55):
right place. I think everyone wants the best willing tern
it's just how we get there. And but but equally,
you know, it seems, you know, just on gut feel
and from what I can see out there, it seems
like the wrong time to be doing that when we
can't even get enough people into the city to be
spending money on retail and cafes and that sort of thing.
And so perhaps, you know, reviewing things and staging things
(21:17):
differently it would be a smart move at this point.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
But you know that I got Fael, and I've been.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Trying to keep my mind as positive as I can.
I know the end result will be good, but it's
just getting to that end result. So it's a couple
of years after another, after a previous couple of years,
after a previous couple of years. Amanda, do you think
the fear of some business is irrational or is it
actually reasonable that they should be scared and they should
be worried.
Speaker 6 (21:39):
I think it's reasonable based on the plans that I've
seen and what I've been told. I just think that
as the plan is, it probably needs rethinking to incorporate
the needs of all Wellingtonians. And you know, we are
great at using public transport. We walk everywhere, we cycle,
but we also most of us have a car and
(22:00):
often need to use that car, and I am a
bit nervous about it being pedestrianized. Aside from there, I
think that the council really just needs to complete some
of the projects that are already under the way, you know,
the town Hall, the Civic Square, the library. It would
be those businesses down there are also doing it really
hard enclosing and closing, and I just think we need
(22:24):
to pause a little bit before we tear up another
part of the city when nothing's finished. Anywhere, nothing's finished.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I want to go to you on this one, Craig. Obviously, Amanda,
don't be offended by this, but.
Speaker 6 (22:39):
I'm not.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
A property market I mean, tell us, give us your
gut feeling of what's going on with the property, how
is it performing at the moment, and what are people
looking for? Are you getting? You said before, you're not
getting the listenings that you know, the listing numbers aren't
as huge as for spring. I thought that was going
to be strange because I thought with the change of
the blue line or whatever it was, it was going
to be a whole lot of listings. Everyone's going to.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
Sell, Yeah, but I know they're all waiting for better
times next year and holding on this. And again there's
a gut field and we could see the early signs
of that and the numbers that are coming through us,
and we get it before you know, it comes out
in the kind of all the economic.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Stats that we get out there. But so it looks like.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
We're going to have a lighter spring, so to speak,
than we were expecting. And yeah, as I say, my
gut feels that's because people are putting their decision on hold,
waiting for better times because they can now see, you know,
they're riding on the wall that the interstrates are going
to be cut into next year. So that means it's
actually quite a good time to sell. So that's one
thing it's actually you want to do the opposite of
what people do generally speaking, when there's less stock on
the market. If you've got your house in the market,
(23:38):
you get them better concentration and buyers.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
And we can see that.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
I think last week we had forty tenders across it
was a ten properties across ten properties forty so an
average of four office per property, which is really good.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
So somebody give me the advice and I will come
to you a minute. Man, give me the advice for
someone that's actually looking to buy or sell right now.
They're looking, they should they what should they do?
Speaker 5 (24:03):
Well, A lot of it depends on your personal circumstances.
I mean, if if you're looking, and also where you
are in the market. I mean, if you're if you're
a buyer who bought in twenty twenty one and you
and you're a first time buyer at that point and
your negative equity. You need to now now is not
to sell your house, but if you're but if you're
but if you're upsizing. You know, people get this wrong.
Of course, a lot of people looked at what the
house was worth in twenty twenty one and what it's
(24:24):
worth today, and so they don't want to sell. But actually,
if you're upsizing, the declining process is better for you,
you know, I mean the difference, the difference is less,
you know, sorry, you know, yeah, the difference is less
for you.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Maybe I wonder if you could trade houses like your
trade cars, or buy cars worth thirty seven that's worth forty.
The difference is so. And so you ever get that
you have to sell houses. Obviously you do that. You
have to sell people's houses so they can buy the
other way.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Absolutely exactly.
Speaker 5 (24:46):
So if you're buying selling the same market as less
than as you work off your personal circumstances in that point,
you don't try and time the market. But I think
we're this is a bit of a long haul here.
I mean the long term average amount of houses sold
in Wellington from target to stem it's one in.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
City Territoryorial authority.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
Is four thousand. The year to March last year, the
fund year to March last year it was twenty five hundred, right,
so it gives you an idea of how it was
about forty percent lower than that, just the long term average,
not peak, not peak volumes, right, and now we're probably
around three thousand. So we're still about you know, depending
on how you look, it's still about twenty five percent
below a long term average amount of house is sold
(25:23):
in a year.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Now, Amanda, I did promise to come to you. We're
hearing previously on with guests on this show that people
are trying to take their businesses to the suburb. Now,
you said you started in the suburbs. Have you looked
at that as an option? It seems to be that,
you know, Julie Gubb's been blowing the trumpet pretty loudly
that her move to Candala has been pretty damn good.
Would you look at doing that?
Speaker 6 (25:45):
I feel where I am at the moment. You know,
I'm on the outer edges of the city and I
probably am really happy where I am, and I've resigned
my lease, so that's a that's a positive. I hope
I would look at it, though, you know, if it
needs masked. I started in Kilberni and it's a great suburb,
and there's a lot happening in those suburbs, so why not?
Speaker 4 (26:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Never say never, say never? Is that the catchphrase of
today's business? Never say never. You just don't know what's
around the corner.
Speaker 6 (26:12):
I think you do have to be open. You don't
have to.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Be I want to ask you guys, and you're probably
not at the target market. But I read yesterday or
the other day that scooter company has been banned from
Wellington streets after providing mis misleading information on that scooter
numbers to the council. Craig, do you think that scooter
uses or do you use them for a start to
use up.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
Around and never use an e scooter?
Speaker 5 (26:35):
I can honestly say I don't particularly I'm not particularly
fond of them, just just you know, driving I always
worry that they're going to come across my bonnet, headphones
on and flying down the footpath and I've got a
tight driveway to get out of my place, and you
never quite know who's going to come down, and I
worry one of them's going to fly with my bonnet.
But in saying that I'm open minded, I feel like
if I was twenty years old, I probably would have
(26:56):
used them.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Well, you look like the sort of sort of guy
that would take your pretty damn good shape, So you
look like the guy that would just walk out of
the opposite grab him. I think scooter and scooter all
the way down.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
I was into skateboarding when I was young. Cecius escapeboard
around the city, so I think I would would have
loved it back then. So she got I think being
open minded for the for the vibrancy of the city,
and from getting one into the other eye. I don't
have a problem, but I do find them, you know,
a little bit dangerous. I think about I think about
that from time to time.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Amanda, What do you think of them?
Speaker 6 (27:21):
I do think they're great for getting around the city.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Do you use them?
Speaker 6 (27:24):
No, I don't. I'm pitied i'd make an incredible fool
of myself.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
But I feel like I want to. I feel like
I really want it, but I feel like I might
be a bit big. I might slow it down.
Speaker 6 (27:35):
Of it over my fair share of them when they're
just left sort of randomly.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
I was going to say, I've seen a few parked
outside your cafe and you your chop.
Speaker 6 (27:43):
Yeah, so I have had to move a fair few,
but I've never actually ridden it.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Can you actually just pick them up and move them?
Speaker 6 (27:48):
Well? Deeps at you and doesn't like it much, but
you can.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
So what do you think they should be allowed?
Speaker 6 (27:53):
Or I do think they should be allowed. I think
They're a great way for people to get around the
city in a hurry, and they're easy and you certainly
see people using them.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Great.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
Yeah, I think so too.
Speaker 5 (28:03):
I think again, just helps for a bit of vibrancy
and if it helps peopleet across the city, that's a good thing.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
If you need to go down the road and do
something and park it out the front and go away,
you go. You pay per the minute, That's what I
don't get. So you're trying to always speed against them.
You know, if they weren't paid per the minute, maybe
you wouldn't try and beat speed. And that's my little
piece of advice. Got really really quick question because I
want to know what you really would do with someone special.
And I know I've only got three minutes, so I'm
getting looked at my producer. Give me one real quick
(28:28):
question after you've told me were you're going to take
the special person that you want me to ask Mia
torri Fano when she comes in the studio tomorrow, Craig,
I'm going to start with you, So where are you
taking that very special person? You've picked up Bumpy Daylight today,
They've just flown in, and what are you going to
do with them to show off your great city.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
Yeah great, Well, I think I mean, we love to
My wife and I love to go out for dinner
and love to entertain out and I think, you know,
the more we can support hospitality right now, the better.
So the first thing I do is take them out
to somewhere special in the city. And there's you know,
so many great places to eat in the city. But
I think supporting sporting the ones that are that are
struggling is a great is a great way to support
(29:08):
Wellington's I I'd be taking people to Ombra Olive Capital,
one of my favorite Tom and Kate down there amazing
and then perhaps you know, brunch at Squirrel would be
would be fantastic.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
So yeah, great, Okay, Amanda, what are you going to
do with those that family member or someone that's never
been to Wellington.
Speaker 6 (29:25):
We've been to Wellington and just flowing in on daylight today. Well,
I was going to say that, given that I start
each day walking in the town belt, I probably would
like to take them for a walk in the town
belt because I think we're unbelievably lucky to have that
right on our doorstep. But if it's a bit muddy,
and horrible. I might take them somewhere to eat, and
my favorites would be mister goh'es or Kisa and I
(29:46):
love Oikos out in streathmore.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Okay, people are talking about the one opposite you too.
What's it called Kojo?
Speaker 4 (29:51):
Is it cojokoji ye coach?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
A lot of people have been talking about that lately too.
Just right, quickly, really quickly, give me one question each
for Mere Toy founder? What would you if you had
an art if you had to ask her a question
if you're walking past the street really really quickly because
I've got to go, what would you ask?
Speaker 6 (30:08):
Does she really believe that that plan for Courtney Place
is the right answer? Has she really taken on board
what Wellingtonians want? Because I don't think she has.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
Great Yeah, I'd be I'd be perhaps asking her some
questions around the town hall and the and whether we
really need to continue to spend that money, to spend
that money and to dig the hole deeper.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Thank you both so much for taking time out of
your day. I know you're both extremely people. Craig Low,
managing director of Low and Co. Realty and Amanda Holland,
owner of Small Acorns and Squirrel on Blea Street. Pop
it and say hello. If you've listened to the show
and you're interested in having a chat, I'm sure they'd
both like to have a chat with you. And you've
got to got something to listen or want to buy
(30:54):
a house crags your man, so he told me in
the ad break. Thank you both, very much. Appreciate it.
Thanks appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to Newstalk It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Said, b.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
You're inside word on all things business in the Capitol
with Quinovac, better systems, better reporting, better call, Quinnobeck, oh
eight hundred, quinovec.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Let's get down, let's get downs. Give you monnight monight, characters,
you've had a million million night's just like person.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
It's business now. We joined every couple of weeks on
a Monday, joining us for the business panel. This week
it's Craig Low, managing director of Low and Co Realty.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Morning, Craig morning, How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
How are you feeling? Are you positive?
Speaker 5 (00:47):
I'm as positive as I can possibly be. Nick, And
it's great to see you. Have to say great to
see you in person, because last time we did this,
you weren't so I was hiding away. You were working
for home, which we might be talking about today.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
So let's not talk about where you can. Vogue and
Amanda Holland, owner of Small Acons A small Acorns. Why
do I call acorns?
Speaker 6 (01:03):
I don't know. We get little acorns, we get something.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I'm blessed her it Also she owns Squirrel Cafe, which
is right next door, which she had a little bit
of space next door. She built a cafe, very successful cafe.
I want to start with both of you this morning
on trying to be a little bit more positive. I
want to do something different. We have a lot of
discussions last week about whether Wellington's dying. The Business panel
in the last few months has been quite negative. We're
(01:30):
in a tough spot right now. And I read Thomas
Coglan's article on the hero and I kind of think
he's right in a lot of ways. He kept on
saying that we're beating ourselves up, We're making it difficult
on ourselves, and it's self perpetulating. So if we get
up in the morning and we brush our teeth and
we say we're going to have a ship day to
day and nothing's going to go right, guess what we'll
have that Craig, I want to start with you. Sure,
(01:52):
is there an element in our city? You're dealing with
people right across the board. Is there an element of
people in our city that are just feeling sorry for himself?
Speaker 5 (02:01):
It's a great question. I think that there is real
There are people really are doing it tough. There's no
doubt about it. I think it isn't where it's not
just people's imagination. But I also think you're right about
having a positive attitude is more important having a negative one,
and we can end up as a danger, we end
up in a you know, sort of echo chamber of
negativity that that just won't help, right, But we need
we need things to focus on. We need purpose, we
(02:21):
need reasons to get out of there. We need ways
to make it better that are inspiring. And that's and
that's going to come from positive activity, not from negativity.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Okay, Amanda, welcome. Do you think it's as bad as
what everyone's making out Well, I.
Speaker 6 (02:35):
Think I agree with Craig, there's no doubt about it.
It's probably the hardest that it's ever been for businesses
now in Wellington. But I'm the same. I think we
need to remember that we live in a great city,
a great creative city that's always been renowned for its
cafe culture. It's creative culture, it's theatrical culture, and we
(02:55):
just need to, you know, remember that and stay positive
and get through this bit.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I want to ask you this question because when I
did some research, I didn't realize that your business has
been going for over thirty years. I mean that's thirty
two years amazing.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Congratulations.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
You must have started when you were nine? Did you
leave school? Did you leave go straight to private school?
During your due shop something? And it's always been known
by you. Yes, your dream, your idea.
Speaker 6 (03:23):
Yep, I started it, yeah, thirty two years ago. But
we've moved around the city. We started in Kilbernie, We've
been in two premises in Willis Street, in Featherston Street
and now where we are in Blair Street.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Why do you move around chasing that cheap rent?
Speaker 6 (03:38):
Well, you know actually and from Kilbernie, I had big
dreams of you know, being a CBD retailer and then
eventually reality caught up with me. And to be honest,
if we hadn't move to Blair Street, we wouldn't be around.
That's the reality. The rents were so high becoming higher,
and so we moved again to you know, a lovely
character space that's more destination.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
So, Mada, you have a great, a great feel for
the chart.
Speaker 5 (04:01):
You know, you know how this kind of recessionary environment,
if you want to call it, that compares to others
and you know how, you know, how how does this
compare over the thirty two years you've been doing it.
Speaker 6 (04:12):
I definitely think it's you know, I feel personally, I'm
working harder than I've ever worked in my life to
try and stay sort of ten steps ahead of what's
going on out there, and to keep my store interesting
and relevant and fresh. You know, even thirty two years,
you have to remember, have new customers coming along all
the time that I've never heard of you. So that's
a great opportunity. I think most Wellington independent retailers are
(04:36):
in that same mindset.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
But do you I mean, it's a great question, Creigan
one while I was getting one I had on my list,
but you stole it from me. You want to be
the host as well as the expert. But I mean,
is it as bad as it's ever been in thirty years?
Speaker 6 (04:49):
I think it's tough. I mean we're okay hopefully touchwood today,
but you know, there, for the grace of God, go ay.
It's kind of a saying one d P about each
time I walk past a site that's empty or closing
or you know, it's sad, it's really sad.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah, I'm glad you say that. It's I do too,
And whenever I walk past the light switch, I say
it's so easy you can be turned on a wharf, right,
I mean, how do you think it is? Do you
think it's as bad as since you've been in business?
Speaker 5 (05:15):
Well, I love, Well, it's a good question. I mean, really,
this has been the toughest real estate correction, speaking specifically
about real estate that that I've experienced in twenty five
years that since I got my real estate license, no
doubt about that. It's been when we had twenty six
percent correction and prices into forty percent drop in volumes.
And you know, as it from a business, from an
agent perspective, that's terrible. From a business perspective, you're fixed,
(05:36):
over heads, don't go down when you when you're when
you're your revenue drops by forty percent. So it's been
super tough for last few years. And you know, and
I think we had it a bit earlier perhaps in
the rest of the economy, and we've probably perhaps come
past the bottom a little bit earlier too.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
But yeah, are you seeing a positive Are you seeing
any signs of positive that he's creeping back. We've already
had the first you know, interest rate drop, well, you know,
the reserve bank drop. So that's going to translate with
you fascinating.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
Yeah, so it's a great question. So what we've seen
is really interesting.
Speaker 5 (06:07):
We've actually seen the spring rush that typically comes to
this time of Yain and we have a truckload of
properly start heading in the market. We've seen that just
be delayed, like not as many houses hit in the market.
And I suspect this is a gut feel, but it's
quite counterintuitive, but I suspect a lot of potential sellers
saw the interest rate decline in the DOP plot from
the Reserve Bank and the people saying it's going to
better next year, and so what do they do. They
(06:28):
put their decision on hold, which means less house to
the market. And it's kind of interesting because what happens
then is you get a lack of supply, and so
now we're actually seeing multi office situations all of a sudden.
So things are picking up from the perspective of it's
actually a bit easier to sell a house today, and
I think the next couple of months that will be
the case. But there's actually less houses going to be
sold just because no one's putting the house on the market.
(06:50):
So we're kind of bumping around on the bottom. I
would say, it's probably the best way to characterize it.
You know, we're not but yeah, less houses coming to markets,
people waiting to next year.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Now, Amanda happened to Amanda, How are you getting people
a new store? How are you getting people walking in
your door? How do you get them to walk in
your door?
Speaker 6 (07:07):
Well that's the thing, you know, the days of long
gone where you can just open your doors and expect
people to come in. That just doesn't happen anymore. I
think that, you know, after covid was great in terms
of it introduced people to the world of online. Some
of my customers anyway, we had to really help them
through it.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
But how did Can I just interrupt you there slightly?
Because your stuff is very specialized. If I'm looking for
a coffee table or a war unit, or you know,
a house house thing to make my house look better,
what's your shop is? How do you how do you
get that feel online?
Speaker 6 (07:37):
Well, that's that's the million dollar question. I try really
hard to make our website represent the store as closely
as possible, because personally, I really don't like it when
you go to a store and it doesn't reflect what's
online and vice versa. But you know, you have to
spend a lot of time with your social media. You
spend a lot of time with your email list, You
(07:58):
spend a lot of time just being nice to people,
replying to every email, replying to every comment, just to
you know, stay front of mind.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
Can I make a point about state of Wellington that
is that we're not the only one struggling, you know,
I mean even around the world. I mean you look
at you know, San Francisco. Thirty seven percent office vacancy
in San Francisco and it's unbelievable, right, Like, to imagine
thirty seven percent office vacancy. I don't think we're We're not.
We're not even close to that in Wellington. So you know,
there are people doing it tough all over and we're not.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Why are we? Why are we that city? I mean
that's what I started this segment off. Why are we
that city where you know, Auckland's doing it tough, Melbourne's
doing it tough, Sydney's doing it tough. Yeah, we need
to you know, before the Olympics, Paris was doing it ton.
Why are we so oh poor us?
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Well?
Speaker 5 (08:42):
I think maybe it's pride, you know, call us a
little call us capital in the world. And you know,
we're very proud, proud citizens Walingonians. And I think it
hurts that walked along the street and see you know,
the war we see and I mean we we, I
mean we need to start with thinking about the people
who have nowhere to live for a start, you know,
we need to support the people at the very bottom
(09:02):
as well and think think strongly about that, which is
why you know, support the One City Mission because they
do incredible work in that space. But beyond that, once
you go past that, I mean, people are very proud
of their city. And as you mentioned, which is a
great point, Amanda, is we have incredible competitive advantages or
comparative advantages that I think you'd say, compared to to
other cities, with our natural geography, the beautiful city that
(09:24):
we live in, the nice constrained nature. It's a fun
city because it's like you know, it's surrounded by hills
and it's got that lovely.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Constrained feeling about it.
Speaker 5 (09:33):
And and yeah, and then there are there are a
confluence of factors that have made it tough. And it's
not it's not imagined, but it's also we're not the
only ones, and if.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
You take the weather out of it, Amanda, I mean,
I remember doing this very show with somebody.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
I'm trying to think of it.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
As fran Wild. I think it was fran Wild who said,
you know, if Wellington had great weather, none of us
would be able to afford to live here.
Speaker 6 (09:55):
No, that's probably true, but you know, you still, I
still you know, you come down that now wrong a
gorge and you get that first glimpse of the harbor
and it's magical. You know, it's a really beautiful city,
even on a terrible day. To be honest, I mean,
it's not ideal to be wandering around out here today,
but you know, it's a beautiful city.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
And just really really quickly, both of you. Do you
think that we made too much of the government cuts? Cuts?
Do you think we've made We just want to push
that as a narrative because it's easy to do.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Yes, I think I think it's as playing a role
as a as a variable that's there.
Speaker 5 (10:28):
But there are so many variables going on right now,
high interest rates, work from home, you know, the general
state of the global economy, as well as as you know,
government cuts, and I think we have made a bigger
deal with it. We haven't seen a lot in the
real estate game. We haven't seen a huge amount of
that affecting you know, people, people selling up and going on.
(10:49):
It's a veriable but it's it's only very, very small
a minute.
Speaker 6 (10:51):
Amanda, Yeah, i'd agree. I think it is. It's one fact.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Only, Amanda. I want to start with you on this.
Over the last three weeks we've heard a ten businesses closes,
ranging from retail to hospitality. What are the biggest challenges
facing businesses in the Wellington CBD right now?
Speaker 6 (11:09):
I think we need to remember it's not just those
ten businesses. There've been some other quiet closures over the
last couple of months. Good Books, Twigger and Arrow, Cranfields, Wishbone, Avid,
they've all gone. So they're all our To be honest,
I think they were the best stores in Wellington. They
were our independent, iconic retailers and gave the city its
(11:32):
character and that's what we're losing. It's stressful thinking about
it actually, because you know, these people have invested all
their life savings, all their own money in their own business.
It's a dream. As well as the financial cost, it's
their dream. Well that's how it is for me, and
if you lose it, it's really tragic and sad.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
And some people means they lose.
Speaker 6 (11:56):
Their home, absolutely, they lose.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Everything everything for their dream to make our city better.
I mean they're trying to make money, but it's you know,
you don't open your store every Monday morning to make money.
You open your store because you want to open it.
You believe in what you're doing. And if you make money,
that's a byproduct of it. And I'm sure Craig, you'd
be exactly the same. You know, at the end of
the day, your dream is to have your name on
(12:20):
the door and sell as many properties and give everyone
the best experience they possibly can. If you make money, great.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
I agree.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
Yeah, No, business, business is not just making money. It's
about about community and it's about about having giving people
purpose and being able to reinvest in the things that
are important to you.
Speaker 6 (12:38):
I think I'm lucky. I've got, you know, some really
lovely loyal customers who have followed us across the years.
And you know, if they come in for a hand
cream or a bunch of flowers, or a cake of
so let alone a sofa or a cushion, you know,
You're just lucky to see them, and most of them
are really concerned that we'll still be there at the moment.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
We are going to talk about moving and going out
into the suburbs in the hour. But Craig, you don't
actually have to be in the CBD, I mean construction.
Those who don't know where your officers are there with
the old Flanagan's hotel right on the corner of Cambridge
Kent Terrace, Courtney Place called or what you want? You're
right when the bulldozers come in, they go and pass
(13:18):
your front door.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
Yeah, young, young young people remember Sandwiches next Flanigan?
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Sorry, but well you do what you do? What I mean,
you still knew what I was talking about, even though
you're like, yo, what would you have thought of bed
or if you thought of that site?
Speaker 6 (13:35):
Actually probably couldn't remember Sandwich's name, but I definitely you
remember going there Flanagan's.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Yeah, right, So back to the point the bulldozers were
starting outside your office.
Speaker 5 (13:46):
Yeah, I mean it's such a tough one. I mean,
I feel conflicted on this because I really feel strongly
that Courtney Place needs to clean up. You know that
that you know, I walk along the pavement there and
my feet feels like my shoes are sticking to the pavement,
and you know, and it.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Just but they won't change with a new piece of concretent. Yeah,
nine six months later. It's about maintenance, keeping it clean,
but carry on.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
So but I just feel like that whole area, you know,
to me, does need to clean up. But I also
feel like the timing just as atrocious. And I don't
know what the answer is for all of our businesses
that are in that area in terms of walking in.
But you're right, we don't have to be in the CBD.
It is good for us to be in the city.
We need good arterial routes to get in and out
of the city to northwest, east and south. But aside
(14:29):
from that, we don't have to be in the CBY.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Do you spend that time I'm sorry, I'm going to
difflect a little bit here, Amanda, but do you spend
that time like the old days where you actually meet
people at properties or do you do it all through
open homes? And is there still a lot of that.
I'll meet you there at four o'clock, so.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Yep, one percent, yep, No, We're we're very active. You know,
the agents have got to be in and out and
be able to get to properties and get to every
suburb in Wellington within ten minutes, which is again one
of the things we love about Wellington being so constrained
in the city, being really central to every suburb you can,
we can get everywhere from where we are.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
It's great.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
It's a great location for that and that and that
will be disrupted a bit with all the chaos it's
about to ensue, for sure.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Amanda, have you actually thought I mean, I know, I
think I know that know you reasonably well, you're in
a position where you could close the door tomorrow and
your life wouldn't change. Really, I mean, you've got you know,
you know, but well, I mean you know you perceived,
so you know, have you actually thought about closing and
giving up? No?
Speaker 6 (15:20):
Never, I couldn't beat to think about closing and giving
up because I'm not done. I don't have My husband's
always asking me what my exit strategy is, and I
don't have one, which is probably not good either.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
But do you know, do true entrepreneurs have an exit strategy?
People ask me the same thing. Okay, you know, even
though I'm a lot older than both of you. I
haven't got an exit strategy either, because I love what
I'm doing, So why have I got an exit strategy?
Do I want to retire?
Speaker 4 (15:44):
No? If you've got an exit straa they'll be wheeling
me out. And it was an oxygen tank and a
wheelchair and I love it. I mean, you've got a purpose,
you got a reason get out of the bed in
the morning.
Speaker 6 (15:53):
Absolutely, I can't imagine what.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
Yeah, it's exciting for me and I just love doing
cool stuff with cool people. That's what I loved all about.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Roading charges on Thornton keya continue despite the protest of
many businesses, but counsel to investigate, investigate fifteen hundred dollars
worth of micro grants for the affected business Amanda. If
you owned a business on Thornton Key and you had
your life completely disrupted and they offered you fifteen hundred dollars,
what would you say to.
Speaker 6 (16:21):
Them, Well, you know, you don't want to look a
gift horse in the mouth. But the fact that they
think fifteen hundred dollars goes anywhere near to appease some
of what those businesses must be going through is incredulous
to me. You know it tells me that they're out
of touch.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
One of the counselors rang me the day before. I'm
not going to say who. One of the counsels ran me,
said we're thinking of doing this. I said, don't do it,
and they said why. I said, because it's embarrassing. Fifteen
hundred dollars to those businesses. Is just you know, if
they came to U Craig and said, we're going to
rip the hell out of the front, which we are,
and by the way, we'll give you fifteen hundred dollars,
I know what you would say. I would almost guarantee
(16:59):
that I don't know you that well, you'd say give
it to Saint John's. We'll give it to someone you
know that's not going to help my business.
Speaker 6 (17:04):
Yeah, it just tells me that they're out of step
with how much it costs to open and stock and
staff and all their ongoing costs that aren't going away
while it is just so impossible down there. I just
feel so sorry for those businesses.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Well, they're going to be feeling sorry for you shortly
because you're going to have it in your front door
as well.
Speaker 6 (17:26):
Yeah. That petrifies me, if I'm honest, does it. Yeah, absolutely,
it really does.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
And even though you know you're on Blair Street very
clearly that you know, acorns and squirrel will actually not
get affected directly because it's constructions are way away from
your front door, you still scares you that much.
Speaker 6 (17:45):
Yeah, it does, because I know it will affect us.
You know, the traffic coming down, having to go down
Wakefield Street will be absolutely crawling, It'll be stuck, it
won't be going anywhere. Customers I just think will not
bother to even attempt to come. And I think that
it will affect us, definitely will affect us.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Craig, on the other hand of this whole thing, right,
you'll be looking at it because I know that you're
figures and man man and you work on all everything's
number thing to you. You'll be looking at and going
can the council really afford to be actually giving money
away to businesses?
Speaker 5 (18:19):
I totally agree with what a man to say. It
it's it's it's a it's a joke really.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
And it's it's insulting.
Speaker 5 (18:24):
And I think that you know, for seen hundred bucks
is just not going to do anything, and and so
that they might as well keep it and do something
more productive with the money. If they if they're going
to proceed with what they're doing with the routing changes,
they should just keep that money and do something else
with it and make the decisions be done with it.
But but ultimately, you know, they they really feels like
the empathy for for businesses business right now is it
(18:45):
the lowest point and and right at the wrong time
for that. We we we need to you know, cheap
funding for small businesses.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
We need it.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
We need capital investment in our city from from business
and this is what we need to get the business
the city thriving.
Speaker 6 (19:00):
You know, less bureaucracy, not you know all of that's.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
Fifteen hundred and no parking outside.
Speaker 6 (19:09):
Yeah, business ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I mean, if you're a business in Thornton right now,
what would you be thinking.
Speaker 6 (19:16):
One of my customers tell me last week that she
tried to go to a business down there six times
and gave up because she she just couldn't find anywhere
to park or stop and she just had to go away.
Six times she attempted to go to this business.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I've said it quite a few times. I'm building a
place at the moment, and we've been buying a lot
of lighting, and we use a shop in Thornton right
the end of Thornton Key for the lights. Got a
great My wife's got a great relationship with the person
it sells and the work passle for her to go
and buy the stuff. There is immense can't find a park,
(19:52):
you know, there's a couple of shot parks outside the
front of the shop. But it's just incredibly hard. But
you've got to stay loyal to.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
Them, don't you.
Speaker 6 (20:00):
You do have to stay loyal to them. But I
just feel so sorry for them because it just must
be sold. Drawing what they're going through all the time.
It's a nightmare down there.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Let's talk about a nightmare that's coming close to us.
I mean, all three of us, all three of us
are right in the middle of the Golden Mile where
it's going to start. Craig, I want to start with you.
You know, given given the economic struggles, and we've talked
about it for the last forty minutes, is at the
right time for the council to actually say to themselves, actually,
(20:34):
let's push we need to do it. We all agree
we need to do it. We all agree that we
need to tidy up and the Golden Mile. But is
the timing right right now? It's a really hard question
to answer, and I think I think. I mean, I'm
not an eurven planner, and I'm not going to profess
to have the answers. And one thing I would say is,
I think all the stakeholders that are involved in these decisions,
I think they're generally speaking there, everyone's heart's in the
(20:55):
right place. I think everyone wants the best willing tern
it's just how we get there. And but but equally,
you know, it seems, you know, just on gut feel
and from what I can see out there, it seems
like the wrong time to be doing that when we
can't even get enough people into the city to be
spending money on retail and cafes and that sort of thing.
And so perhaps, you know, reviewing things and staging things
(21:17):
differently it would be a smart move at this point.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
But you know that I got Fael, and I've been.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Trying to keep my mind as positive as I can.
I know the end result will be good, but it's
just getting to that end result. So it's a couple
of years after another, after a previous couple of years,
after a previous couple of years. Amanda, do you think
the fear of some business is irrational or is it
actually reasonable that they should be scared and they should
be worried.
Speaker 6 (21:39):
I think it's reasonable based on the plans that I've
seen and what I've been told. I just think that
as the plan is, it probably needs rethinking to incorporate
the needs of all Wellingtonians. And you know, we are
great at using public transport. We walk everywhere, we cycle,
but we also most of us have a car and
(22:00):
often need to use that car, and I am a
bit nervous about it being pedestrianized. Aside from there, I
think that the council really just needs to complete some
of the projects that are already under the way, you know,
the town Hall, the Civic Square, the library. It would
be those businesses down there are also doing it really
hard enclosing and closing, and I just think we need
(22:24):
to pause a little bit before we tear up another
part of the city when nothing's finished. Anywhere, nothing's finished.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I want to go to you on this one, Craig. Obviously, Amanda,
don't be offended by this, but.
Speaker 6 (22:39):
I'm not.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
A property market I mean, tell us, give us your
gut feeling of what's going on with the property, how
is it performing at the moment, and what are people
looking for? Are you getting? You said before, you're not
getting the listenings that you know, the listing numbers aren't
as huge as for spring. I thought that was going
to be strange because I thought with the change of
the blue line or whatever it was, it was going
to be a whole lot of listings. Everyone's going to.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
Sell, Yeah, but I know they're all waiting for better
times next year and holding on this. And again there's
a gut field and we could see the early signs
of that and the numbers that are coming through us,
and we get it before you know, it comes out
in the kind of all the economic.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Stats that we get out there. But so it looks like.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
We're going to have a lighter spring, so to speak,
than we were expecting. And yeah, as I say, my
gut feels that's because people are putting their decision on hold,
waiting for better times because they can now see, you know,
they're riding on the wall that the interstrates are going
to be cut into next year. So that means it's
actually quite a good time to sell. So that's one
thing it's actually you want to do the opposite of
what people do generally speaking, when there's less stock on
the market. If you've got your house in the market,
(23:38):
you get them better concentration and buyers.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
And we can see that.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
I think last week we had forty tenders across it
was a ten properties across ten properties forty so an
average of four office per property, which is really good.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
So somebody give me the advice and I will come
to you a minute. Man, give me the advice for
someone that's actually looking to buy or sell right now.
They're looking, they should they what should they do?
Speaker 5 (24:03):
Well, A lot of it depends on your personal circumstances.
I mean, if if you're looking, and also where you
are in the market. I mean, if you're if you're
a buyer who bought in twenty twenty one and you
and you're a first time buyer at that point and
your negative equity. You need to now now is not
to sell your house, but if you're but if you're
but if you're upsizing. You know, people get this wrong.
Of course, a lot of people looked at what the
house was worth in twenty twenty one and what it's
(24:24):
worth today, and so they don't want to sell. But actually,
if you're upsizing, the declining process is better for you,
you know, I mean the difference, the difference is less,
you know, sorry, you know, yeah, the difference is less
for you.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Maybe I wonder if you could trade houses like your
trade cars, or buy cars worth thirty seven that's worth forty.
The difference is so. And so you ever get that
you have to sell houses. Obviously you do that. You
have to sell people's houses so they can buy the
other way.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Absolutely exactly.
Speaker 5 (24:46):
So if you're buying selling the same market as less
than as you work off your personal circumstances in that point,
you don't try and time the market. But I think
we're this is a bit of a long haul here.
I mean the long term average amount of houses sold
in Wellington from target to stem it's one in.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
City Territoryorial authority.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
Is four thousand. The year to March last year, the
fund year to March last year it was twenty five hundred, right,
so it gives you an idea of how it was
about forty percent lower than that, just the long term average,
not peak, not peak volumes, right, and now we're probably
around three thousand. So we're still about you know, depending
on how you look, it's still about twenty five percent
below a long term average amount of house is sold
(25:23):
in a year.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Now, Amanda, I did promise to come to you. We're
hearing previously on with guests on this show that people
are trying to take their businesses to the suburb. Now,
you said you started in the suburbs. Have you looked
at that as an option? It seems to be that,
you know, Julie Gubb's been blowing the trumpet pretty loudly
that her move to Candala has been pretty damn good.
Would you look at doing that?
Speaker 6 (25:45):
I feel where I am at the moment. You know,
I'm on the outer edges of the city and I
probably am really happy where I am, and I've resigned
my lease, so that's a that's a positive. I hope
I would look at it, though, you know, if it
needs masked. I started in Kilberni and it's a great suburb,
and there's a lot happening in those suburbs, so why not?
Speaker 4 (26:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Never say never, say never? Is that the catchphrase of
today's business? Never say never. You just don't know what's
around the corner.
Speaker 6 (26:12):
I think you do have to be open. You don't
have to.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Be I want to ask you guys, and you're probably
not at the target market. But I read yesterday or
the other day that scooter company has been banned from
Wellington streets after providing mis misleading information on that scooter
numbers to the council. Craig, do you think that scooter
uses or do you use them for a start to
use up.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
Around and never use an e scooter?
Speaker 5 (26:35):
I can honestly say I don't particularly I'm not particularly
fond of them, just just you know, driving I always
worry that they're going to come across my bonnet, headphones
on and flying down the footpath and I've got a
tight driveway to get out of my place, and you
never quite know who's going to come down, and I
worry one of them's going to fly with my bonnet.
But in saying that I'm open minded, I feel like
if I was twenty years old, I probably would have
(26:56):
used them.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Well, you look like the sort of sort of guy
that would take your pretty damn good shape, So you
look like the guy that would just walk out of
the opposite grab him. I think scooter and scooter all
the way down.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
I was into skateboarding when I was young. Cecius escapeboard
around the city, so I think I would would have
loved it back then. So she got I think being
open minded for the for the vibrancy of the city,
and from getting one into the other eye. I don't
have a problem, but I do find them, you know,
a little bit dangerous. I think about I think about
that from time to time.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Amanda, What do you think of them?
Speaker 6 (27:21):
I do think they're great for getting around the city.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Do you use them?
Speaker 6 (27:24):
No, I don't. I'm pitied i'd make an incredible fool
of myself.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
But I feel like I want to. I feel like
I really want it, but I feel like I might
be a bit big. I might slow it down.
Speaker 6 (27:35):
Of it over my fair share of them when they're
just left sort of randomly.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
I was going to say, I've seen a few parked
outside your cafe and you your chop.
Speaker 6 (27:43):
Yeah, so I have had to move a fair few,
but I've never actually ridden it.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Can you actually just pick them up and move them?
Speaker 6 (27:48):
Well? Deeps at you and doesn't like it much, but
you can.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
So what do you think they should be allowed?
Speaker 6 (27:53):
Or I do think they should be allowed. I think
They're a great way for people to get around the
city in a hurry, and they're easy and you certainly
see people using them.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Great.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
Yeah, I think so too.
Speaker 5 (28:03):
I think again, just helps for a bit of vibrancy
and if it helps peopleet across the city, that's a good thing.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
If you need to go down the road and do
something and park it out the front and go away,
you go. You pay per the minute, That's what I
don't get. So you're trying to always speed against them.
You know, if they weren't paid per the minute, maybe
you wouldn't try and beat speed. And that's my little
piece of advice. Got really really quick question because I
want to know what you really would do with someone special.
And I know I've only got three minutes, so I'm
getting looked at my producer. Give me one real quick
(28:28):
question after you've told me were you're going to take
the special person that you want me to ask Mia
torri Fano when she comes in the studio tomorrow, Craig,
I'm going to start with you, So where are you
taking that very special person? You've picked up Bumpy Daylight today,
They've just flown in, and what are you going to
do with them to show off your great city.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
Yeah great, Well, I think I mean, we love to
My wife and I love to go out for dinner
and love to entertain out and I think, you know,
the more we can support hospitality right now, the better.
So the first thing I do is take them out
to somewhere special in the city. And there's you know,
so many great places to eat in the city. But
I think supporting sporting the ones that are that are
struggling is a great is a great way to support
(29:08):
Wellington's I I'd be taking people to Ombra Olive Capital,
one of my favorite Tom and Kate down there amazing
and then perhaps you know, brunch at Squirrel would be
would be fantastic.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
So yeah, great, Okay, Amanda, what are you going to
do with those that family member or someone that's never
been to Wellington.
Speaker 6 (29:25):
We've been to Wellington and just flowing in on daylight today. Well,
I was going to say that, given that I start
each day walking in the town belt, I probably would
like to take them for a walk in the town
belt because I think we're unbelievably lucky to have that
right on our doorstep. But if it's a bit muddy,
and horrible. I might take them somewhere to eat, and
my favorites would be mister goh'es or Kisa and I
(29:46):
love Oikos out in streathmore.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Okay, people are talking about the one opposite you too.
What's it called Kojo?
Speaker 4 (29:51):
Is it cojokoji ye coach?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
A lot of people have been talking about that lately too.
Just right, quickly, really quickly, give me one question each
for Mere Toy founder? What would you if you had
an art if you had to ask her a question
if you're walking past the street really really quickly because
I've got to go, what would you ask?
Speaker 6 (30:08):
Does she really believe that that plan for Courtney Place
is the right answer? Has she really taken on board
what Wellingtonians want? Because I don't think she has.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
Great Yeah, I'd be I'd be perhaps asking her some
questions around the town hall and the and whether we
really need to continue to spend that money, to spend
that money and to dig the hole deeper.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Thank you both so much for taking time out of
your day. I know you're both extremely people. Craig Low,
managing director of Low and Co. Realty and Amanda Holland,
owner of Small Acorns and Squirrel on Blea Street. Pop
it and say hello. If you've listened to the show
and you're interested in having a chat, I'm sure they'd
both like to have a chat with you. And you've
got to got something to listen or want to buy
(30:54):
a house crags your man, so he told me in
the ad break. Thank you both, very much. Appreciate it.
Thanks appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to Newstalk It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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