November 11, 2024 • 29 mins
Lindsay McKenzie has been appointed as Wellington City Council’s Crown observer.
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown said McKenzie has significant governance and senior leadership experience.
McKenzie’s term will last until July next year.
Wellington City Council’s Crown observer will be on the job tomorrow after the Government revealed the man tasked with sorting out “the shambles”.
Lindsay McKenzie, the former chief executive of Tasman District Council and Gisborne District Council, has agreed to take on the role.
Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau told Newstalk ZB’s Wellington Mornings host Nick Mills there had been better collaboration at the council in the past couple of weeks.
”When the Minister was contemplating government intervention, I think that kind of gave everyone a bit of a fright. The last thing the council wanted was a commissioner”, she said.
Whanau said she wasn’t surprised when the Government decided to appoint a Crown observer.
”I wouldn’t say relief, just kind of like acceptance that this was happening.”
When asked whether she’d lost control of her council, Whanau said no.
”This robustness and perception of dysfunction has been building for years.”
Whanau believed they could work together but said “unified” was probably no longer the right word to use.
Asked what she would do differently, Whanau said anything she did differently would result in the same outcome.
”Everything that I have done is by the book, I’ve done everything with the best interests of Wellingtonians at heart.
“What we have are some people who relitigate decisions, play politics, play political theatre because that is the nature of Wellington City Council. I stick by my decisions.”
Lindsay McKenzie is the former CEO of Tasman District Council.
Whanau believed the council had not reached the threshold for a Crown observer but she accepted that was the Government’s decision.
She said the council would never be perfect.
”That’s due to the personalities that are in the room. When you disagree so fundamentally on things like values, policies or so forth, it’s going to cause tensions, it’s going to be robust.
“We’ve never going to be best friends and that’s probably something I was naive about when I was first mayor.”
Whanau spoke to Simeon Brown last night who told her the observer was there to help the council.
She has exchanged numbers with McKenzie this morning and will set up a meeting with him as soon as possible.
Whanau said she expected McKenzie to observe and provide guidance to ensure the council was meeting its legislative requirements.
She did not expect him to attend airport board meetings with her, but he will attend council meetings, workshops and meet with elected members one-on-one.
She didn’t think having an observer was going to be as dramatic as people thought.
”Because there’s an observer there, we’ll have councillors possibly watch themselves.”
Whanau said observing the capital city could be quite different from McKenzie’s experience at provincial councils.
Asked whether councillors had thrown her under the bus, Whanau said; “You’d have to ask them”.
Whanau said she had not been treated unfairly by her own council and said that it was just political theatre.
Not every councillor thought she was a great leader but she had a great relationship with the majority of her peers, Whanau said.
She didn’t think Wellingtonians were embarrassed by having a Crown observer, and she did not feel she had been picked on by the Government because she was aligned with the Green Party.
Whanau said between $400 million and $600m in capit
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said b.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome back. It's seven minutes past ten. Special guests in
the studio. Welcome well into Mere. Torrifano, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
How are you? How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I'm good? Thank you, I'm good. It's been a busy
few weeks for you, hasn't it?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Yeah? It is.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
How are you feeling?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
I feel all right. Assuming we're going to talk about
the Crown Observer first, we may as well get right
into it.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
But I'm just asking how you are. I was being
a gentleman saying you're starting this conversation with how are you?
Are you? Okay, you've been under it. I am You've
been under a immense amount of pressure. I know. So
how are you?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Oh? I'm good? Yeah? Oh what can I say?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Yeah, things are all right.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Well last time you were in the mood of the
council has completely changed. But really hasn't it. I mean
they now realize that we've got an observer and he's
been named Lindsay Mackenzie will talk about him a little
bit in a minute, yes, and everyone in the council
is saying, let's pull our heads in and behave ourselves.
But are they really has anything really changed?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
It's certainly gotten a lot better. I think when the
minister decided or was contemplating government intervention, I think that
kind of gave everyone a bit of a fright and thought, oh, okay,
we actually have to work together. We need a successful LTP.
A commissioner is the last thing that we want, so
(01:39):
let's work together. There are always going to be because
of these decisions are so hard and and people are
very passionate about their projects which are at risk. You know,
with the LTIP amendment, it's going to bring out emotions.
There'll be debates that will never end. But I would
say that there's been a lot more collaboration than previously.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
But we did hear today there was a bit of
an incident, but we'll talk about that later as well.
So obviously hasn't gone completely and obviously some issues.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
And look, I want to I want to say because
this comes up a lot like the thing about Wellington
City Council is that we are a very political city
with a capital city. You know, we have the government
right there, we have a lot of media that are
based here, so we have a very heavy spotlight on us,
and we're very political passionate people.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Do you think we've got the spotlight on us because
of you?
Speaker 1 (02:34):
No?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
No, you don't think so.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Ah. I mean I haven't really thought about that, but.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I mean, you're a young Wahini that's coming to a
position of power, and you know, I think there's a
lot of attention on you.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
I think I do think when I first came in
it was quite exciting because you know, I was also
the unknown candidate who won by a landslide, and that
certainly brought a bit of attention to me, and and
that sort of continued, you know, in terms of the why.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
I look, Okay, I don't know. Let's move on. Let's
talk about the observer. I wanted to go back to
when it was first announced because I got a bit
of criticism on this show for saying it was a
very dark day for the history of Wellington by our
counsel having to get an observer put in place. What
was your initial response when you got the call from
Simon Brown saying that it was going to be an
(03:30):
observer put in to keep an eye on you.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
I wasn't surprised because we knew in the lead up
to while managing the entire long term plan. So even
in the lead up to it being signed off, it
was may there. We knew officers had given advice then
that actually, if we don't pass this, if we don't
meet our legislative requirements, government intervention is.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
We know that, But I'm trying to get your initial
feelings yourself, you know, I mean a phone call comes
and you know suddenly that everything that you stand for
has changed.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Oh honestly, I just I felt like, I how do
I describe this relief? Maybe, but I wouldn't say relief,
just kind of like acceptance that this was happening because
I knew, because we had to go back out for
consultation with the LTP, we now had an insurance risk
that we couldn't cover. There was a lot of media
(04:23):
attention around it, and so I was accepting of it.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I would say, when you first announced, and we did
an interview on the show that you were running as mayor,
you wanted to bring the whole council together. You said
it was divided under Andy Foster, and you said you
were misfix it. Yep, you said you know you were
going to tidy this all up and you're going to
bring a United Council together, it's got worse. Did you
(04:50):
actually have you actually lost control of your counsel.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
I wouldn't say I've lost control of my counsel. I
would say this kind of robustness and a perception of
the dysfunction has been building for years, even before Andy's term.
I would say, so, I think again, you know, tying
back to what I said before, when you're bringing a
whole a group of very diverse, passionate, loud people with
(05:17):
media all around us together, it's you know, we can
work together, but unified is probably no longer the right
word to use.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Have you lost control of your counsel?
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I don't think I've lost control of my counsel.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
I think what would you do differently? If you started
again today, What would you have done differently? Would you
have given any of the other side of the political
barrier some positions of power?
Speaker 3 (05:43):
No, Because I decided I put people into those positions
who I thought would best serve counsel based on their experience,
based on our priorities, and based on who could work
well with other people.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
You had some very experienced people to brown.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Yep, and he's no chair.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
He's a chair now, it wasn't originally.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Yeah, because he was a new so I didn't want
to put new to it. Yeah, but that's and so
it was even more important for me to have more
experienced people in those chair positions. What would you do
differently what I do differently? I I think anything I
(06:24):
did differently it would have the same outcome.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
So you wouldn't. Even though now we have an observer
starting tomorrow, which we'll get to, you wouldn't change anything.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
No, because everything that I have done is by the book.
I've done everything with the best interests of Wellingtonian's at heart.
What we have some people who relitigate decisions, who played politics,
played political theater, because that is a nature of Wellington
City Council. I stick by my decisions.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Okay, before the observer was announced, you said you didn't
need one. Do you still don't think you didn't need one?
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Think when you when you look at the bar for
what is required for government intervention, we I believe we
still hadn't met that threshold. However, it's actually it is
up to the minister. He announced one anyway, and I've
just been like, okay, that's that's fine.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
And so do you stand by the fact that the
government now have so little faith in your counsel that
they had to put in zerver in.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
You know, when I talked to the minister, he has
never once said so little faith It is never okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
That's my terminology. Yeah, I mean the fact that we
are the only I think we're the only council in
New Zealand that has a Crown observer.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
That's not correct. So there's actually Hawk's Bay Regional Council
have a Crown Manager, which is actually a step above.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Okay, sorry I did say I thought so.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
The conversations that I've had with the Minister have been,
you know, very very polite, positive and it's very much
with a I spoke to him last night before her
and announced it and he said, you know this, this
observer is here to help you. This observer is here
to ensure that you have a successful LTP and that's great.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Have you spoken to Lindsey over emails?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
So we've we've done a bit of an intro and
I and we're.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Just he's spoken to him on a phone or.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
No not yet, so've we've only just swapped numbers like
as of this morning, so, and I've got my EA
to set up a meeting as soon as possible. He's
just going through that whole onboarding stuff. He starts officially tomorrow,
but I'm looking really looking forward to meeting with him.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Will he live in Wellington or will he commute?
Speaker 3 (08:37):
I don't know. I don't know those details. I think
that's more of a DIA sort of question.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Do you know how much he's getting paid but you're
paying for it or we're paying for it?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
I don't know honestly.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Those We've been told by the Minister that we haven't
your counselor, so you don't know how much We've no
not yet. Have you deliberately kept a bit of a
low profile since he's been announced, because you know you
you are a very high profile capital city mayor and
I'm not degrading that, but since this was all announced,
(09:12):
we've not even heard from you.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Look, I take interviews as needed, you know, for me,
it's really important. I think in the last year there's
been a lot of distractions which have been unfortunate, which actually,
to your point earlier, may have kind of fed to
the intention the attention that council has had. I don't
think that's really useful. So I'd rather just take media
(09:36):
that focuses on Wellington City issues. There hasn't been a
lot to say since the press conference that I gave
a couple of weeks ago. We've essentially been in waiting
mode for the Crown Observer. Now that's been announced. Now
we can move on.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
If I asked you for one thing that's changed since
the actual announcement, what does it mean for the Council
in terms of anything, anything that you think. Oh, I
can deliberately, I can say, oh, that's really good now
because of this announcement, or that's changed now because of
the announcement.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
I think. So what I would say is, and I
know I came in and spoke to a day after
the airport sale failed. What I did immediately after that
was aimed to rebuild relationships because that was a very difficult,
emotional decision. We weren't on our best behavior for that
whole thing because it was so serious and there was
(10:29):
kind of a bit of an anger on both sides.
But the first thing I wanted to do, and especially
after our interview, was rebuild those relationships, especially with the
Progressive Counselors and including our green ones and talk more
to the other side as well. That has happened. There's
a lot more talking, there's a lot more good faith.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
You think that the council is getting on amongst themselves better.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
I think so.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
I mean, that's taken a while for you to answer it.
So obviously it hasn't been. It hasn't been a notable.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
It'll never be perfect, is what I'd say. And that's
due to the personalities that are in the room. You know,
when you disagree so fundamentally on things like you know, values,
policies and or so forth, it's going to cause tension,
It's going to be robust, will never be best friends.
(11:20):
And that's probably something I was naive about when I
first started as mayor. Can you run a city, absolutely,
because at the end of the day, it's democracy and
we have to we have to work together, we have
to incorporate different views. We have done that. I've certainly
made a lot of concessions over the last couple of
years and support of things I normally wouldn't and you know,
(11:43):
we just away we've actually I'm proposing that we make
some budget.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Cuts on life welling to meet Tory Fano in the
studio with us joins us live and you can watch
it on the Herald's website if you want to, or
you or YouTube or wherever you else you get your
live screenings from. You can watch toy and and me
and keep an eye on what we're doing and what
(12:08):
we're saying. Let's talk about the Crown Observer, the name
not many of us or any of us would have
actually ever heard of before, Lindsey McKenzie. What do you
know about him?
Speaker 3 (12:19):
So the Minister gave me a full rundown about him
last night.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
So you only found out about it last night, just
before it was announced.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Which is I would have expected that.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
No, I would have expected you. You got a bit of
information and a CV and a whole lot of stuff
a few days ago.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
No, I think, I look up, you'd have to talk
to the minister about that. But I know he was
a pharmacy of Tasman District Council and Gismond District Council,
and I know which is what really interested me. He's
an independent chair of an audit and Risk committee, which
I think is great because that's what are you expecting
from him to observe and to I think when it
(12:58):
comes to the LTP process. He might provide some guidance
on to ensure that we're meeting our legislative requirements.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
But I think he'll do things like go to the
Airport board meetings with you and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Do you think it will go to no, I think
I think the terms of reference are very limited to
the LTP, So we go to all the workshops, all
the meetings relating to this LTP, one on one meetings
with me and counselors and officers, and I think that's that's.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Always going to work, Monday to Friday, the whole thing.
It's going to be a full time gig here. We don't.
You don't.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
I don't know yet.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Okay, do you think it's slightly concerning as I do
that his experience is a very much provincial towns rather
than big city like Wellington.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I mean, he has like a long he has a
link the experience, which I think is useful.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
It's small town stuff, I mean compared to well interns
gives the Nelson, you know, small town stop.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
It's quite a good point. I think, you know, managing
the capital city or observing the capital city.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Well, you said managing No, I know, that was.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Incorrect of me to say that observing the capital city
would be quite different from observing you had. Oh sorry,
I'll just finish. I think if he was a Crown manager,
that might be more concerning, you'd want that more higher experience.
But because he's just observing and reporting back to the minister,
I think it's fine.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
I'm kind of confused a little bit because you did
say manage, So I'm confused. What is the actual job
of an observer?
Speaker 3 (14:27):
So he will be just essentially observing the entire process,
the entire LTIP process, and reporting back to the minister.
And look, if anything goes wrong, he would report that
back to the minister, who would then decide to further
intervention is needed. So he's not a decision maker. He's
not there to tell us what to do, but he
might provide some guidance on the Maybe what is the
(14:51):
administrative process of putting the LTIP?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Okay, you said you spoke to Sammy and Brown last
night and he was, you know, a nice guy to you.
You know, basically he said he's here to help you everything.
Did he say, Hey, if this is not sorted out,
I'm going to go further. You give you any any
just just nice cities. This is going to be okay, yeah,
he was, he was. How do you think the future
is going to go? How do you think it's going
(15:14):
to work?
Speaker 3 (15:15):
I think Look, I have even though we've had to
go back and amend to the LTP, that is not unusual.
Councils have done that all the time, they get less attention.
I'm confident we can put.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Through councils that are as fractured as Wellington City Council.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Yeah. I think if you were to, if you were
to send in a journalist to every single council around
New Zealand, you'd find similar problems to us. And that's
the feedback we get. Well, this feedback I get from
other mayors, local government New Zealand and so forth. So
we are not unique, We're just louder. So back to
the LTP, I think I think we'll have a successful
(15:56):
LTP for consultation. I genuinely believe that.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
You've copped a bit of flat over this decision to
appoint an observer, because you know, you came in saying
you were going to sort everything out and obviously you haven't.
In the council hasn't allowed you to do that. You're
only you are the one that always says you're only
one person around the table. How much do you blame
other counselors for what's gone on? Do you think they're
just throwing you under the bus and they're fighting you're
(16:20):
carrying on and you actually haven't. Because you're the front,
you're the mayor, you have to take it.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
I think there is certainly a higher level of attention
on me as the mayor, as any mayor, But I
think as a collective that's how I prefer to view things.
Look in a democratic way. They voted down the airport's
sale and we've had to go to an ALTIP amendment.
(16:45):
Am I disappointed? Yes, of course, because we signed off.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Now do you think they threw you under the bus? Personally?
Speaker 3 (16:50):
You'd have to ask them. I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Well, you only you can tell whether you feel that
you've been treated unfairly by your own counsel.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Then I would say no, I would say it's just
political theater.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Do they respect you? Do they respect you as a leader?
Do they think she is a great leader and we
are actually respectable of it? Oh?
Speaker 3 (17:07):
I'm sure not all of them think that, but I
have a great relationship with the majority of council. Okay,
and that's okay.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Again, do you think can I just ask you this,
because this is something back on my own personal feelings.
Do you think Wellingtonians who boded you and no argument
about it, are now feeling embarrassed because we have a
clown observer? No, you don't think we're embarrassed.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Well, that's certainly not the feedback that I'm getting.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Ok What are we feeling in the fact that we've
got to have the government putting a person off there
to keep an eye on us? That's really what it is.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Yeah, look, I think Look, can I only go by
those who have emailed me spoken to me. Some have
felt it to be unfair, a government overreach because we're
a progressive council. That's the sort of stuff that I've
been hearing. That's not necessarily what I agree with.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
But do you think it is Do you actually think
it is because you are a progressive, green based council
that you're getting picked on by the government.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
No, because in my conversations with the minister, but again,
they've been very constructive and polite.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
It doesn't mean that he's not thinking that, you.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Know, you'd have to ask him, But I just don't
see it.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
As I'm asking you because I want to know what
you feel. Do you feel that you have been picked
on because you're a Green?
Speaker 3 (18:20):
I don't. I just I know, like what I've been
saying since the beginning is again, this isn't a unique situation.
Our tipa amendments happen all the time. We are a
capital city, we have a lot of media attention, we
have a lot of media interest. I would have been
surprised if he chose not to put an observer, to
be honest.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
So I want to go back to this how we're
feeling as a city, because I'm certainly feeling embarrassed because
you know, I'm a very proud welling Tonian. It loves
my city. And the fact that our council can't do
the job that we voted them in for and has
been enforced with an observer, I'm embarrassed. Do you not
think the majority of Wellingtonians or a lot of Wellingtonians
(19:00):
are feeling embarrassed?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
I wouldn't. I would say some are, but not the majority.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Okay, we talked before briefly about how the count was
now getting on better and putting their heads And what
happened with Liz Kelly and Diyan Colbert last week, It's
found its way into the post and obviously everybody's talking
about can you tell us what actually happened?
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Yeah, there was a very robust and heated disagreement regarding
our social housing budget and project. And what I would
say is, you know, conversations like that, you know, because
our people are so passionate, happened around council table all
the time, Like even when I've been chair, people have
behaved quite certively towards me. I've seen tears around the table,
(19:39):
We've had a counselors swear and you know.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
This is this is exactly what Simon Brown's been talking.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
About, though, I mean possibly, and look I.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Think it's Can I just ask you one question about
Liz Kelly because and I might have got this completely wrong.
Does Liz Kelly actually live in Wellington?
Speaker 3 (20:02):
No, she lives in Putidor and she's a NATI tour
representative who were part of Oachi head.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Surely we would have an ARTI Tower representative on our
council it lives in Wellington, like often.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Not because an Arti tour are more based out out
and put it all, well, that's not unusual. So we
have a taqui headed agreement.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, we have. Surely there's got to be someone from
that that lives in Wellington that could represent Wellington better
than someone lives in Titahiba to be exact, that should
be perhaps on the pot Diversity Council.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
No, it's based on governance experience, and I think again,
this is an EWI delegation, so it's not for me
to decide who they should be appointing.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
So we could get someone from New Plymouth.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
No, because an Arti tour isn't based in New Plymouth.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Okay, I think they are somewhere up there that way,
aren't they? As well? We are talking about cuts. We
talk briefly about the Golden Mine, and you talked about
the funding that the government will not give you if
you don't go ahead with it. I don't personally think
that's a big enough excuse, but well I understand it's
certainly not my only excuse. Yeah, okay, all right, what
(21:08):
is sacred? What is absolutely toriy Faro's thing that's not
going to be cut?
Speaker 3 (21:15):
So what is sacred to me? But again we'll respect democracy.
It is the Golden Mile. It was the project that
I campaigned on quite hard, and it's such.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
So are we getting it because it's your big thing?
Speaker 3 (21:28):
I think it's a big thing for a lot of counselors. Actually,
you know, some of us are quite staunch about it,
and we believe in the project no matter what. You know,
there's a lot of kind of negative talk around this project,
but at the end of the day, it's the sort
of transformational stuff that makes our city livable, walkable, all
that good stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
I want to ask you about things like the Candala Paul.
Is that just an emotional cut? No, because everyone wants
to talk about I don't know why. Maybe it's just
the rich people live in Candala, but everyone wants to
talk about the Candala Paul. When you ever think about
cutting that? So is that emotional?
Speaker 3 (21:59):
No, it's not emotional. So that was intended to be
cut way back when by you know, that was proposed
by office. But you know, councilor Cavat worked very hard
to keep it in the LTP. There was a very
big campaign. I went and visited them and I thought, okay,
this is fine. Now we don't have the luxury of
being able to cover the cost of that because the
(22:22):
airport sale fell through, so now I have to put
it back up again.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Vision for Wellington. I want to talk to you about
this group of people. Since you were last in, A
bunch of the city's best, brightest and wealthiest have formed
a group the advocate to the for the city vision.
They're calling it the Vision for Wellington. What do you
know about this group?
Speaker 3 (22:43):
I know most people on that group, and they're like
any other advocacy group. They've come together, they're very passionate
about Wellington and they want their views heard.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Have you had any discussions with them?
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Not since it was announced.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Do you have an issue that some of your like
advisory group are also in that group, so they're in
your camp in their camp? Like who Ah el Rony
I think was one of the people in the I
think Mark McGinnis was.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
On the I hadn't seen their names.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
I've heard their names floated around.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
I mean, the sooner not been part of the list.
But that's okay. You know, it's just an advocacy group
and some people want every lever they can to give
their view on Wellington City and that's absolutely fine, right.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
So you don't have an issue with some people being
in both camps. Who was the last time you met
with your advisory group?
Speaker 3 (23:37):
I think late September. Then the observer stuff happened, so
we just kind of had to focus on that.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Well that carry on with the observer in tone. Absolutely,
it's going to be quite interesting, this observer thing. I
don't want to cart back on it, but.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
It's going to be interesting. I don't think it's going
to be as dramatic as people think it is.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
I think it's going to be more dramatic.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
I don't think so. I think because he's an observer there,
we'll have counselors possibly watch themselves.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
We've got a question giving all right, depat with the questions,
I'll better turn his mic one and I.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Thank you Meg, and thank you to My question is
what's our to inc right now?
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I presume hold on, wait one second, Depet Tori didn't
have a mic. Can you go again now, buddy? Please?
All good?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
My question was right now, I want to say that
to incomes is about the two hundred percent, and we
increase that and would that cut a bit of funding
cuts and whatnot? So in terms of you are you
questioning increasing our debt level. Yeah, so so we're looking
at all of those range of things. We actually want
to reduce the amount of debt that we hold and
(24:50):
freed up for future so so we have some space
available to be able to invest in the city. But
the thing about higher debt is that it is likely
that it will impact our rates and our borrowing and
we're just not in the you know, financial situation to
be able to do that. But I appreciate the question.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
There you go, Deepak is your answer. Let's talk a
little bit about engagement with business. How's that been going?
Have you been doing much of that? You know a
lot of businesses are still closing down, doing it tough. Still,
has there been any and have you had any contact
with businesses in Wellington how they're feeling.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Yeah, so probably the last would have been there. There's
quite a cohort of Wellington designers who have established themselves
in Wellington. So I've gone along with them and met
them and supported their pop up business that they have
on Lower Cuba Street. At the moment, I think it's
wonderful and that's been a positive engagement. So yep, I
(25:49):
pop out and meet them as much as I can.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Last month, we've over the last month we've been talking
to mayors of Upper Hut, Low Hut, and Potido on
the show. They all seem supportive of the thing called
amalgamation with Lower Heart, Upperhart, Potido and Wellington. I think
Sam and Brown has actually even met with some of
those mayors or talk to some of those mayors when
discussing with them. They think that one of the major
(26:12):
obstacles is Wellington. Does Wellington City Council want to see
amalgamation with the other three?
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Yep, We've said to them, you know that we haven't
gone through any sort of process that council, but I've said,
certainly amalgamation is something we need to walk work towards
in the future. I think a couple of mayors want
amalgamation now and I just don't think we're in any position.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
To do that.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Okay, as we get time close to the end of it,
I want to ask you a couple of little questions.
One of them is with the all that's happened over
the last couple of months, three months, you know you
are very adamant that you were going to stand for
the mayorship again. What's your situation currently.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Nothing has changed. I'll be having those conversations with family
and friends at the right time.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
You said last time we spoke, and you've always said
you were going to stand again, it was non negotiable.
You're going to still again again.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Nothing has changed. I've been pretty focused on that.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
So you did say you wanted to talk to friends
and family about it.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Well, I've been so busy, you see. So I have
met I actually I very rarely get the opportunity to
meet with my family, and it'll probably beats up towards
the end of the year.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
So with all that's happened, you're still happy to try
and do it again.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
I love the city and I'll do whatever I can
for it to you know, stay on track. I believe
in our long term plan, even an amended one. There's
no doubt about it. This job has a lot of challenges,
but I just it doesn't bother me how difficult it is.
(27:45):
I just I love the city too much.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Wow. So, oh, that's good news to hear that's what
you wanted to do. A couple of things. I want
to talk to you about the hekoy. Have you been
given any information whatsoever about how big, how disruptive. How
it's going to affect our capital city.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
I know that Regional Council EWE, the police and local
council are working together. They've set up a big project
team to identify how many people are coming. We've been
We're getting different figures, but it's in the tens of thousands.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
And will you be marching?
Speaker 3 (28:21):
I certainly hope to. I'm gonna take some guidance from
Manafeno and what they would like to do, but I
will certainly be on a more welcoming side of things
because I support the copupper.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Right, okay, and you don't envisit any issues for Wantington, I.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Don't think so. I think there'll be a big crowd,
but we we're engaging with the Hikoy organizers to ensure
that everyone stays safe. I know I believe the government
departments might be encouraged to work from home because of traffic,
but I think it's going to be okay, We've not
we you know, protest is just a normal part of democracy.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
I've only got thirty seconds left, but I want to
ask you about the Christmas tree. Auckland's got a one
point two million dollar Christmas tree and we've got a
forty five thousand dollars one. I'm not moaning about. I'm
happy that you haven't spending money. But it's damn ugly
and it's a second year in a row we've had
a damn ugly Christmas tree.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
I haven't seen it, so I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
You haven't seen it?
Speaker 3 (29:16):
No, not yet?
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Didn't you give it the okay? I?
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Well, I don't. It's pretty operational, but I'm sure it's fine.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
It's not French. It's scaffolding. Now, why do we have
some nice sure?
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Sure, just a nice tree?
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Well Auckland spending one point two million dollars?
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Would you prefer we spent one point no?
Speaker 2 (29:37):
No, I can't even pay my right.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Sorry for being good with our money.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
All right, Tory Fano, Wellington Mere. Thank you for coming in.
I've know that we're finishing up right now because I'm
getting the cut sign from my producer, so we've got
to go. Thank you for coming in, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Thank you for more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills.
Listen live to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine
am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said b.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome back. It's seven minutes past ten. Special guests in
the studio. Welcome well into Mere. Torrifano, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
How are you? How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I'm good? Thank you, I'm good. It's been a busy
few weeks for you, hasn't it?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Yeah? It is.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
How are you feeling?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
I feel all right. Assuming we're going to talk about
the Crown Observer first, we may as well get right
into it.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
But I'm just asking how you are. I was being
a gentleman saying you're starting this conversation with how are you?
Are you? Okay, you've been under it. I am You've
been under a immense amount of pressure. I know. So
how are you?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Oh? I'm good? Yeah? Oh what can I say?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Yeah, things are all right.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Well last time you were in the mood of the
council has completely changed. But really hasn't it. I mean
they now realize that we've got an observer and he's
been named Lindsay Mackenzie will talk about him a little
bit in a minute, yes, and everyone in the council
is saying, let's pull our heads in and behave ourselves.
But are they really has anything really changed?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
It's certainly gotten a lot better. I think when the
minister decided or was contemplating government intervention, I think that
kind of gave everyone a bit of a fright and thought, oh, okay,
we actually have to work together. We need a successful LTP.
A commissioner is the last thing that we want, so
(01:39):
let's work together. There are always going to be because
of these decisions are so hard and and people are
very passionate about their projects which are at risk. You know,
with the LTIP amendment, it's going to bring out emotions.
There'll be debates that will never end. But I would
say that there's been a lot more collaboration than previously.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
But we did hear today there was a bit of
an incident, but we'll talk about that later as well.
So obviously hasn't gone completely and obviously some issues.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
And look, I want to I want to say because
this comes up a lot like the thing about Wellington
City Council is that we are a very political city
with a capital city. You know, we have the government
right there, we have a lot of media that are
based here, so we have a very heavy spotlight on us,
and we're very political passionate people.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Do you think we've got the spotlight on us because
of you?
Speaker 1 (02:34):
No?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
No, you don't think so.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Ah. I mean I haven't really thought about that, but.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I mean, you're a young Wahini that's coming to a
position of power, and you know, I think there's a
lot of attention on you.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
I think I do think when I first came in
it was quite exciting because you know, I was also
the unknown candidate who won by a landslide, and that
certainly brought a bit of attention to me, and and
that sort of continued, you know, in terms of the why.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
I look, Okay, I don't know. Let's move on. Let's
talk about the observer. I wanted to go back to
when it was first announced because I got a bit
of criticism on this show for saying it was a
very dark day for the history of Wellington by our
counsel having to get an observer put in place. What
was your initial response when you got the call from
Simon Brown saying that it was going to be an
(03:30):
observer put in to keep an eye on you.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
I wasn't surprised because we knew in the lead up
to while managing the entire long term plan. So even
in the lead up to it being signed off, it
was may there. We knew officers had given advice then
that actually, if we don't pass this, if we don't
meet our legislative requirements, government intervention is.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
We know that, But I'm trying to get your initial
feelings yourself, you know, I mean a phone call comes
and you know suddenly that everything that you stand for
has changed.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Oh honestly, I just I felt like, I how do
I describe this relief? Maybe, but I wouldn't say relief,
just kind of like acceptance that this was happening because
I knew, because we had to go back out for
consultation with the LTP, we now had an insurance risk
that we couldn't cover. There was a lot of media
(04:23):
attention around it, and so I was accepting of it.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I would say, when you first announced, and we did
an interview on the show that you were running as mayor,
you wanted to bring the whole council together. You said
it was divided under Andy Foster, and you said you
were misfix it. Yep, you said you know you were
going to tidy this all up and you're going to
bring a United Council together, it's got worse. Did you
(04:50):
actually have you actually lost control of your counsel.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
I wouldn't say I've lost control of my counsel. I
would say this kind of robustness and a perception of
the dysfunction has been building for years, even before Andy's term.
I would say, so, I think again, you know, tying
back to what I said before, when you're bringing a
whole a group of very diverse, passionate, loud people with
(05:17):
media all around us together, it's you know, we can
work together, but unified is probably no longer the right
word to use.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Have you lost control of your counsel?
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I don't think I've lost control of my counsel.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
I think what would you do differently? If you started
again today, What would you have done differently? Would you
have given any of the other side of the political
barrier some positions of power?
Speaker 3 (05:43):
No, Because I decided I put people into those positions
who I thought would best serve counsel based on their experience,
based on our priorities, and based on who could work
well with other people.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
You had some very experienced people to brown.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Yep, and he's no chair.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
He's a chair now, it wasn't originally.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Yeah, because he was a new so I didn't want
to put new to it. Yeah, but that's and so
it was even more important for me to have more
experienced people in those chair positions. What would you do
differently what I do differently? I I think anything I
(06:24):
did differently it would have the same outcome.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
So you wouldn't. Even though now we have an observer
starting tomorrow, which we'll get to, you wouldn't change anything.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
No, because everything that I have done is by the book.
I've done everything with the best interests of Wellingtonian's at heart.
What we have some people who relitigate decisions, who played politics,
played political theater, because that is a nature of Wellington
City Council. I stick by my decisions.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Okay, before the observer was announced, you said you didn't
need one. Do you still don't think you didn't need one?
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Think when you when you look at the bar for
what is required for government intervention, we I believe we
still hadn't met that threshold. However, it's actually it is
up to the minister. He announced one anyway, and I've
just been like, okay, that's that's fine.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
And so do you stand by the fact that the
government now have so little faith in your counsel that
they had to put in zerver in.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
You know, when I talked to the minister, he has
never once said so little faith It is never okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
That's my terminology. Yeah, I mean the fact that we
are the only I think we're the only council in
New Zealand that has a Crown observer.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
That's not correct. So there's actually Hawk's Bay Regional Council
have a Crown Manager, which is actually a step above.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Okay, sorry I did say I thought so.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
The conversations that I've had with the Minister have been,
you know, very very polite, positive and it's very much
with a I spoke to him last night before her
and announced it and he said, you know this, this
observer is here to help you. This observer is here
to ensure that you have a successful LTP and that's great.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Have you spoken to Lindsey over emails?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
So we've we've done a bit of an intro and
I and we're.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Just he's spoken to him on a phone or.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
No not yet, so've we've only just swapped numbers like
as of this morning, so, and I've got my EA
to set up a meeting as soon as possible. He's
just going through that whole onboarding stuff. He starts officially tomorrow,
but I'm looking really looking forward to meeting with him.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Will he live in Wellington or will he commute?
Speaker 3 (08:37):
I don't know. I don't know those details. I think
that's more of a DIA sort of question.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Do you know how much he's getting paid but you're
paying for it or we're paying for it?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
I don't know honestly.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Those We've been told by the Minister that we haven't
your counselor, so you don't know how much We've no
not yet. Have you deliberately kept a bit of a
low profile since he's been announced, because you know you
you are a very high profile capital city mayor and
I'm not degrading that, but since this was all announced,
(09:12):
we've not even heard from you.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Look, I take interviews as needed, you know, for me,
it's really important. I think in the last year there's
been a lot of distractions which have been unfortunate, which actually,
to your point earlier, may have kind of fed to
the intention the attention that council has had. I don't
think that's really useful. So I'd rather just take media
(09:36):
that focuses on Wellington City issues. There hasn't been a
lot to say since the press conference that I gave
a couple of weeks ago. We've essentially been in waiting
mode for the Crown Observer. Now that's been announced. Now
we can move on.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
If I asked you for one thing that's changed since
the actual announcement, what does it mean for the Council
in terms of anything, anything that you think. Oh, I
can deliberately, I can say, oh, that's really good now
because of this announcement, or that's changed now because of
the announcement.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
I think. So what I would say is, and I
know I came in and spoke to a day after
the airport sale failed. What I did immediately after that
was aimed to rebuild relationships because that was a very difficult,
emotional decision. We weren't on our best behavior for that
whole thing because it was so serious and there was
(10:29):
kind of a bit of an anger on both sides.
But the first thing I wanted to do, and especially
after our interview, was rebuild those relationships, especially with the
Progressive Counselors and including our green ones and talk more
to the other side as well. That has happened. There's
a lot more talking, there's a lot more good faith.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
You think that the council is getting on amongst themselves better.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
I think so.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
I mean, that's taken a while for you to answer it.
So obviously it hasn't been. It hasn't been a notable.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
It'll never be perfect, is what I'd say. And that's
due to the personalities that are in the room. You know,
when you disagree so fundamentally on things like you know, values,
policies and or so forth, it's going to cause tension,
It's going to be robust, will never be best friends.
(11:20):
And that's probably something I was naive about when I
first started as mayor. Can you run a city, absolutely,
because at the end of the day, it's democracy and
we have to we have to work together, we have
to incorporate different views. We have done that. I've certainly
made a lot of concessions over the last couple of
years and support of things I normally wouldn't and you know,
(11:43):
we just away we've actually I'm proposing that we make
some budget.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Cuts on life welling to meet Tory Fano in the
studio with us joins us live and you can watch
it on the Herald's website if you want to, or
you or YouTube or wherever you else you get your
live screenings from. You can watch toy and and me
and keep an eye on what we're doing and what
(12:08):
we're saying. Let's talk about the Crown Observer, the name
not many of us or any of us would have
actually ever heard of before, Lindsey McKenzie. What do you
know about him?
Speaker 3 (12:19):
So the Minister gave me a full rundown about him
last night.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
So you only found out about it last night, just
before it was announced.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Which is I would have expected that.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
No, I would have expected you. You got a bit of
information and a CV and a whole lot of stuff
a few days ago.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
No, I think, I look up, you'd have to talk
to the minister about that. But I know he was
a pharmacy of Tasman District Council and Gismond District Council,
and I know which is what really interested me. He's
an independent chair of an audit and Risk committee, which
I think is great because that's what are you expecting
from him to observe and to I think when it
(12:58):
comes to the LTP process. He might provide some guidance
on to ensure that we're meeting our legislative requirements.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
But I think he'll do things like go to the
Airport board meetings with you and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Do you think it will go to no, I think
I think the terms of reference are very limited to
the LTP, So we go to all the workshops, all
the meetings relating to this LTP, one on one meetings
with me and counselors and officers, and I think that's that's.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Always going to work, Monday to Friday, the whole thing.
It's going to be a full time gig here. We don't.
You don't.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
I don't know yet.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Okay, do you think it's slightly concerning as I do
that his experience is a very much provincial towns rather
than big city like Wellington.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I mean, he has like a long he has a
link the experience, which I think is useful.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
It's small town stuff, I mean compared to well interns
gives the Nelson, you know, small town stop.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
It's quite a good point. I think, you know, managing
the capital city or observing the capital city.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Well, you said managing No, I know, that was.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Incorrect of me to say that observing the capital city
would be quite different from observing you had. Oh sorry,
I'll just finish. I think if he was a Crown manager,
that might be more concerning, you'd want that more higher experience.
But because he's just observing and reporting back to the minister,
I think it's fine.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
I'm kind of confused a little bit because you did
say manage, So I'm confused. What is the actual job
of an observer?
Speaker 3 (14:27):
So he will be just essentially observing the entire process,
the entire LTIP process, and reporting back to the minister.
And look, if anything goes wrong, he would report that
back to the minister, who would then decide to further
intervention is needed. So he's not a decision maker. He's
not there to tell us what to do, but he
might provide some guidance on the Maybe what is the
(14:51):
administrative process of putting the LTIP?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Okay, you said you spoke to Sammy and Brown last
night and he was, you know, a nice guy to you.
You know, basically he said he's here to help you everything.
Did he say, Hey, if this is not sorted out,
I'm going to go further. You give you any any
just just nice cities. This is going to be okay, yeah,
he was, he was. How do you think the future
is going to go? How do you think it's going
(15:14):
to work?
Speaker 3 (15:15):
I think Look, I have even though we've had to
go back and amend to the LTP, that is not unusual.
Councils have done that all the time, they get less attention.
I'm confident we can put.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Through councils that are as fractured as Wellington City Council.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Yeah. I think if you were to, if you were
to send in a journalist to every single council around
New Zealand, you'd find similar problems to us. And that's
the feedback we get. Well, this feedback I get from
other mayors, local government New Zealand and so forth. So
we are not unique, We're just louder. So back to
the LTP, I think I think we'll have a successful
(15:56):
LTP for consultation. I genuinely believe that.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
You've copped a bit of flat over this decision to
appoint an observer, because you know, you came in saying
you were going to sort everything out and obviously you haven't.
In the council hasn't allowed you to do that. You're
only you are the one that always says you're only
one person around the table. How much do you blame
other counselors for what's gone on? Do you think they're
just throwing you under the bus and they're fighting you're
(16:20):
carrying on and you actually haven't. Because you're the front,
you're the mayor, you have to take it.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
I think there is certainly a higher level of attention
on me as the mayor, as any mayor, But I
think as a collective that's how I prefer to view things.
Look in a democratic way. They voted down the airport's
sale and we've had to go to an ALTIP amendment.
(16:45):
Am I disappointed? Yes, of course, because we signed off.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Now do you think they threw you under the bus? Personally?
Speaker 3 (16:50):
You'd have to ask them. I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Well, you only you can tell whether you feel that
you've been treated unfairly by your own counsel.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Then I would say no, I would say it's just
political theater.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Do they respect you? Do they respect you as a leader?
Do they think she is a great leader and we
are actually respectable of it? Oh?
Speaker 3 (17:07):
I'm sure not all of them think that, but I
have a great relationship with the majority of council. Okay,
and that's okay.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Again, do you think can I just ask you this,
because this is something back on my own personal feelings.
Do you think Wellingtonians who boded you and no argument
about it, are now feeling embarrassed because we have a
clown observer? No, you don't think we're embarrassed.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Well, that's certainly not the feedback that I'm getting.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Ok What are we feeling in the fact that we've
got to have the government putting a person off there
to keep an eye on us? That's really what it is.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Yeah, look, I think Look, can I only go by
those who have emailed me spoken to me. Some have
felt it to be unfair, a government overreach because we're
a progressive council. That's the sort of stuff that I've
been hearing. That's not necessarily what I agree with.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
But do you think it is Do you actually think
it is because you are a progressive, green based council
that you're getting picked on by the government.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
No, because in my conversations with the minister, but again,
they've been very constructive and polite.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
It doesn't mean that he's not thinking that, you.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Know, you'd have to ask him, But I just don't
see it.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
As I'm asking you because I want to know what
you feel. Do you feel that you have been picked
on because you're a Green?
Speaker 3 (18:20):
I don't. I just I know, like what I've been
saying since the beginning is again, this isn't a unique situation.
Our tipa amendments happen all the time. We are a
capital city, we have a lot of media attention, we
have a lot of media interest. I would have been
surprised if he chose not to put an observer, to
be honest.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
So I want to go back to this how we're
feeling as a city, because I'm certainly feeling embarrassed because
you know, I'm a very proud welling Tonian. It loves
my city. And the fact that our council can't do
the job that we voted them in for and has
been enforced with an observer, I'm embarrassed. Do you not
think the majority of Wellingtonians or a lot of Wellingtonians
(19:00):
are feeling embarrassed?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
I wouldn't. I would say some are, but not the majority.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Okay, we talked before briefly about how the count was
now getting on better and putting their heads And what
happened with Liz Kelly and Diyan Colbert last week, It's
found its way into the post and obviously everybody's talking
about can you tell us what actually happened?
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Yeah, there was a very robust and heated disagreement regarding
our social housing budget and project. And what I would
say is, you know, conversations like that, you know, because
our people are so passionate, happened around council table all
the time, Like even when I've been chair, people have
behaved quite certively towards me. I've seen tears around the table,
(19:39):
We've had a counselors swear and you know.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
This is this is exactly what Simon Brown's been talking.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
About, though, I mean possibly, and look I.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Think it's Can I just ask you one question about
Liz Kelly because and I might have got this completely wrong.
Does Liz Kelly actually live in Wellington?
Speaker 3 (20:02):
No, she lives in Putidor and she's a NATI tour
representative who were part of Oachi head.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Surely we would have an ARTI Tower representative on our
council it lives in Wellington, like often.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Not because an Arti tour are more based out out
and put it all, well, that's not unusual. So we
have a taqui headed agreement.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, we have. Surely there's got to be someone from
that that lives in Wellington that could represent Wellington better
than someone lives in Titahiba to be exact, that should
be perhaps on the pot Diversity Council.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
No, it's based on governance experience, and I think again,
this is an EWI delegation, so it's not for me
to decide who they should be appointing.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
So we could get someone from New Plymouth.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
No, because an Arti tour isn't based in New Plymouth.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Okay, I think they are somewhere up there that way,
aren't they? As well? We are talking about cuts. We
talk briefly about the Golden Mine, and you talked about
the funding that the government will not give you if
you don't go ahead with it. I don't personally think
that's a big enough excuse, but well I understand it's
certainly not my only excuse. Yeah, okay, all right, what
(21:08):
is sacred? What is absolutely toriy Faro's thing that's not
going to be cut?
Speaker 3 (21:15):
So what is sacred to me? But again we'll respect democracy.
It is the Golden Mile. It was the project that
I campaigned on quite hard, and it's such.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
So are we getting it because it's your big thing?
Speaker 3 (21:28):
I think it's a big thing for a lot of counselors. Actually,
you know, some of us are quite staunch about it,
and we believe in the project no matter what. You know,
there's a lot of kind of negative talk around this project,
but at the end of the day, it's the sort
of transformational stuff that makes our city livable, walkable, all
that good stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
I want to ask you about things like the Candala Paul.
Is that just an emotional cut? No, because everyone wants
to talk about I don't know why. Maybe it's just
the rich people live in Candala, but everyone wants to
talk about the Candala Paul. When you ever think about
cutting that? So is that emotional?
Speaker 3 (21:59):
No, it's not emotional. So that was intended to be
cut way back when by you know, that was proposed
by office. But you know, councilor Cavat worked very hard
to keep it in the LTP. There was a very
big campaign. I went and visited them and I thought, okay,
this is fine. Now we don't have the luxury of
being able to cover the cost of that because the
(22:22):
airport sale fell through, so now I have to put
it back up again.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Vision for Wellington. I want to talk to you about
this group of people. Since you were last in, A
bunch of the city's best, brightest and wealthiest have formed
a group the advocate to the for the city vision.
They're calling it the Vision for Wellington. What do you
know about this group?
Speaker 3 (22:43):
I know most people on that group, and they're like
any other advocacy group. They've come together, they're very passionate
about Wellington and they want their views heard.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Have you had any discussions with them?
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Not since it was announced.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Do you have an issue that some of your like
advisory group are also in that group, so they're in
your camp in their camp? Like who Ah el Rony
I think was one of the people in the I
think Mark McGinnis was.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
On the I hadn't seen their names.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
I've heard their names floated around.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
I mean, the sooner not been part of the list.
But that's okay. You know, it's just an advocacy group
and some people want every lever they can to give
their view on Wellington City and that's absolutely fine, right.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
So you don't have an issue with some people being
in both camps. Who was the last time you met
with your advisory group?
Speaker 3 (23:37):
I think late September. Then the observer stuff happened, so
we just kind of had to focus on that.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Well that carry on with the observer in tone. Absolutely,
it's going to be quite interesting, this observer thing. I
don't want to cart back on it, but.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
It's going to be interesting. I don't think it's going
to be as dramatic as people think it is.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
I think it's going to be more dramatic.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
I don't think so. I think because he's an observer there,
we'll have counselors possibly watch themselves.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
We've got a question giving all right, depat with the questions,
I'll better turn his mic one and I.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Thank you Meg, and thank you to My question is
what's our to inc right now?
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I presume hold on, wait one second, Depet Tori didn't
have a mic. Can you go again now, buddy? Please?
All good?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
My question was right now, I want to say that
to incomes is about the two hundred percent, and we
increase that and would that cut a bit of funding
cuts and whatnot? So in terms of you are you
questioning increasing our debt level. Yeah, so so we're looking
at all of those range of things. We actually want
to reduce the amount of debt that we hold and
(24:50):
freed up for future so so we have some space
available to be able to invest in the city. But
the thing about higher debt is that it is likely
that it will impact our rates and our borrowing and
we're just not in the you know, financial situation to
be able to do that. But I appreciate the question.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
There you go, Deepak is your answer. Let's talk a
little bit about engagement with business. How's that been going?
Have you been doing much of that? You know a
lot of businesses are still closing down, doing it tough. Still,
has there been any and have you had any contact
with businesses in Wellington how they're feeling.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Yeah, so probably the last would have been there. There's
quite a cohort of Wellington designers who have established themselves
in Wellington. So I've gone along with them and met
them and supported their pop up business that they have
on Lower Cuba Street. At the moment, I think it's
wonderful and that's been a positive engagement. So yep, I
(25:49):
pop out and meet them as much as I can.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Last month, we've over the last month we've been talking
to mayors of Upper Hut, Low Hut, and Potido on
the show. They all seem supportive of the thing called
amalgamation with Lower Heart, Upperhart, Potido and Wellington. I think
Sam and Brown has actually even met with some of
those mayors or talk to some of those mayors when
discussing with them. They think that one of the major
(26:12):
obstacles is Wellington. Does Wellington City Council want to see
amalgamation with the other three?
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Yep, We've said to them, you know that we haven't
gone through any sort of process that council, but I've said,
certainly amalgamation is something we need to walk work towards
in the future. I think a couple of mayors want
amalgamation now and I just don't think we're in any position.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
To do that.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Okay, as we get time close to the end of it,
I want to ask you a couple of little questions.
One of them is with the all that's happened over
the last couple of months, three months, you know you
are very adamant that you were going to stand for
the mayorship again. What's your situation currently.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Nothing has changed. I'll be having those conversations with family
and friends at the right time.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
You said last time we spoke, and you've always said
you were going to stand again, it was non negotiable.
You're going to still again again.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Nothing has changed. I've been pretty focused on that.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
So you did say you wanted to talk to friends
and family about it.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Well, I've been so busy, you see. So I have
met I actually I very rarely get the opportunity to
meet with my family, and it'll probably beats up towards
the end of the year.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
So with all that's happened, you're still happy to try
and do it again.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
I love the city and I'll do whatever I can
for it to you know, stay on track. I believe
in our long term plan, even an amended one. There's
no doubt about it. This job has a lot of challenges,
but I just it doesn't bother me how difficult it is.
(27:45):
I just I love the city too much.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Wow. So, oh, that's good news to hear that's what
you wanted to do. A couple of things. I want
to talk to you about the hekoy. Have you been
given any information whatsoever about how big, how disruptive. How
it's going to affect our capital city.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
I know that Regional Council EWE, the police and local
council are working together. They've set up a big project
team to identify how many people are coming. We've been
We're getting different figures, but it's in the tens of thousands.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
And will you be marching?
Speaker 3 (28:21):
I certainly hope to. I'm gonna take some guidance from
Manafeno and what they would like to do, but I
will certainly be on a more welcoming side of things
because I support the copupper.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Right, okay, and you don't envisit any issues for Wantington, I.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Don't think so. I think there'll be a big crowd,
but we we're engaging with the Hikoy organizers to ensure
that everyone stays safe. I know I believe the government
departments might be encouraged to work from home because of traffic,
but I think it's going to be okay, We've not
we you know, protest is just a normal part of democracy.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
I've only got thirty seconds left, but I want to
ask you about the Christmas tree. Auckland's got a one
point two million dollar Christmas tree and we've got a
forty five thousand dollars one. I'm not moaning about. I'm
happy that you haven't spending money. But it's damn ugly
and it's a second year in a row we've had
a damn ugly Christmas tree.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
I haven't seen it, so I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
You haven't seen it?
Speaker 3 (29:16):
No, not yet?
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Didn't you give it the okay? I?
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Well, I don't. It's pretty operational, but I'm sure it's fine.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
It's not French. It's scaffolding. Now, why do we have
some nice sure?
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Sure, just a nice tree?
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Well Auckland spending one point two million dollars?
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Would you prefer we spent one point no?
Speaker 2 (29:37):
No, I can't even pay my right.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Sorry for being good with our money.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
All right, Tory Fano, Wellington Mere. Thank you for coming in.
I've know that we're finishing up right now because I'm
getting the cut sign from my producer, so we've got
to go. Thank you for coming in, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Thank you for more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills.
Listen live to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine
am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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