It's been one of the toughest years in memory for many businesses around Wellington with a sluggish economy, public-sector job cuts, high inflation, and roading changes around the CBD.
But there is still loads of positivity around the capital according to our two guests on the final Business Panel of 2024, who are both hoping for a much stronger 2025.
Retail NZ chief executive Carolyn Young and Backhouse Interiors owner Michelle Backhouse joined Nick to reflect on the year and their hopes for the new one.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Said, b.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Your inside word on all things business in the Capitol
with Quinovac, better systems, better reporting, better call, quinobeck, oh
eight hundred quinovic.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
No, I'm not going to dance with Carolyn Young Whliff
and Hell Retail New Zealand chief executive Carolyn Young loves
a Simon. She's that I'm trying to dance. You're what
they say about white woman, I can't dance? Well went
on that neck. Well, I just said it. I didn't
expect you to make a comment. I just said, white
woman can't dance. Oh, I started all right. We started
(00:58):
the business balts the last one of the year. I
could have some fun Cutter Absolutely. Thank you Carolyn Young
for joining us and back our Centteria owner Michelle beck Out. Michelle,
welcome to the show. It's the first time you've done it,
but your family business has been iconic in our city
for as long as I possibly can remember.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Thank you, Nick. It's great to be here. And yes,
we've been in Wellington since nineteen forty eight, starting off
as a manufacturing business just off Courtney Place, and our
latest iteration is coming back. What we're sort of returning
home into the Courtney Place precinct, into Allen Street. So
we're very excited about the positive change that can bring about,
(01:39):
hopefully lighting a bit of a bombfar and getting other
like minded businesses to move back into the city.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
And I can tell you that your new shop is beautiful.
It's been well done. It feels good. You had a
look girl. Not yet come on your retail in New Zealand.
Big shop opens like that downtown. You should be walking
in and saying this is fantastic. No, congratulations, it looks great.
We are later in the show going to talk about
you shifting there and the reasons why you shift this.
But I want to start the show by looking back
(02:05):
on twenty twenty four. It's our final show of the
year for business panel, not for the show. We've got
another week to go with the show, but our business
is our last business panel and it's been a big
and I would say eventful year for business people. Karen,
I'll start with you twenty twenty four, give us your thoughts,
your members thoughts. How will you remember twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Look, it's been tough, you mean, we can't we just
can't get past that. I mean, we've had lots of
engagement with members around how difficult it's been for them
for all sorts of different reasons in the highs of
the election last year and people's optimism around things turning
around really quickly, when in reality, the economy takes some time,
(02:48):
and we're probably still three or six months away from
really feeling the impositive impact of the levers that the
Reserve Bank's been pulling. So getting through the next three
or six months is going to be really important. And
the fact that you know, with our saying now that
thereovery won't be as strong as what they anticipated, So
(03:10):
everyone's been doing it tough, and you know, consumers and retailers.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Michelle Beckhouse, you're one of the most positive people that
I've ever met. Now I've only just met you, so
it's not like we're long good old buddies or anything.
But I met you about a month ago for the
first time, obviously knew who you were. You're very positive people.
How was person How was twenty twenty four for you?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I agree with Carolyn, it's probably been the most challenging
year we've ever experienced in business, and we have a
business not just in Wellington but in Auckland, and we
also have distribution around the country. I think the hardest
thing is that it doesn't matter how much money you earn.
Everyone's felt really challenged this year in terms of their
disposable income and I think it's very difficult for us
(03:56):
in our type of business. How do you plan, you know,
what sort of stopped do you bring in? You know,
also taking on extra staff, you know, and so I
would say this year our team has worked harder and
longer hours than ever before. We decided not to take
on additional pairs of hands because we didn't know how
the year was going to you know, travel We normally
(04:18):
employ industrial design students and this is the first year
we decided not to because we thought we can do
it ourselves. And that's you know, trying to put more
money into the important things in the business.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
You have to make decisions that are right for the
business because you're thinking about the sustainability of the business
and you've had to absorb lots of increases from leases
to insurances to you know, wage increases. You know, there's
lots of other impacts that have been really big on
businesses that have made it really difficult to withstand and
(04:53):
think about planning because you don't know how many customers
are coming in the door and really what stock you're
going to have. So the worst thing for a retailer
is not having enough stock, and the worst thing for
a retailer is having too much stock.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Resolutely very fortunate we had a relocation sell in Wellington
and we are that brand. It does carry a lot
of stock and that was our as card I guess
we had. We didn't have an eye in stock. We
could sell existing stock lines all good stock and also
get a bit of you know, traction in the sort
of brick and mortar side of what we do because
(05:25):
people had to come in to have a look and
see what those pieces were. But I think for us
to in our business, it's been the high cost of
freight and the fact that it hasn't been as much
freight coming down into Wellington, and of course problems with
ferries and getting freight in South Island. That's been a
bit of a logistical nightmare as well. And a lot
of these freight companies, like international freight companies, they wait
(05:47):
until they fill up their vessels. It's to make it
takes longer, so it takes longer. So we've just had
a shipment, for example, it was supposed to be here
from Italy last week and it basically the container got
dropped off forty foot container in Singapore because I suspect
they just didn't have enough freight coming down and they're
waiting for a vessel to be fully subscribed. Those extra costs,
(06:07):
extra costs.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
Yeah, they make a really big difference. So you've got
extra time frame. You're trying to juggle worth in order
to get to get stock on the shelves when you
promise it, and the cost and time of getting it
here is just continuing to increase, both internationally and domestically.
I do think we might be hearing an announcement after
cabinet today around the fairies, so.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
We're going to be ready. Have you heard something on that.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
I heard a whisper that there might be an announcement today,
so we know that they were going to announce something
before the eleventh, So that's only two days away, so
it's not today, it's in the next couple of days.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Michelle, I want to ask you because I know you
know once again the positivity, but I mean, how has
government and council decisions? How have they affected you as
a business. You've got a new government, they'll make changes.
We've got a council that's not wouldn't I wouldn't classify
them as the most popular council. The decisions that are making.
How has that affected you as a business woman in
(06:57):
the city.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I think the biggest problem I've had in Wellington is
lack of confidence, and that unfortunately filters down to consumers.
Don't feel confident in terms of you know, the rates
have you know that's a huge eighteen percent. In Auckland,
we're only paying seven percent. So there's lots of discussions
around that. You can see businesses saying, well, do we
(07:20):
expand in Wellington or do we expand in Auckland because
it's a little bit more business friendly up there, even
though they've still got the same issues around retail challenges.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
I think volume people people.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
We're two hundred and sixty thousand and Wellington Greater Wellington
for sixty so it's economy of scale once again.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
But I think there haven's really given me the out one.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
I'm going to say, if we'd had more unified leadership
in the city, that would have been helpful. If we'd
had less emphasis on transportation in the city in terms
of cycle lanes, that would have been helpful. If we'd
had more support and around businesses and what they can
do to help businesses thrive, that would have been helpful.
And the consultation we've experienced with council has not always
(08:06):
been helped for In fact, it's been negligible and really challenging.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
And I think to your point, there has to be
a way that we can find for commuters whether you're
on a bike or you're walking, or you're running, or
you're in a car or on a bus or on
a train, and businesses to be able to coexist because
we can't work in isolation. You know, if there aren't
businesses and hospitality and retail out there, people aren't going
(08:34):
to come into the city, and if there aren't accessible
ways to get there, they're not going to come either.
So you can't disrupt everything so much so that businesses
close down or they move premises because of the decisions
that are being made. We've got to find a way
to coexist into more collaborative around how we want to
work together. And it feels very isolating at the moment
(08:56):
and the consultation that has taken place by the council.
When you ask any business about the consultation, they say
that they don't feel they've been consulted and counselor adamant
that they have. So you know, there's a disconnect there.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
What about closures to both of you, I mean, Michelle,
there's been a lot of business closes, as we heard
this morning that Myrtle, you know, very successful bakery. Now,
I think that's just down to the fact that they
must have had a good lease or a lease that
was you know, the building's up for sale and they
want to put apartment, so I think that's purely down
to a lease there. But that's me speculating. I don't know,
But there's been too many closures.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Well, I hope they come back again because they're a
great business. They have the larder and mirrama, so maybe
it's just for them pausing knowing that they can't stay
in the existing space. But the closures, I mean, it's symbiotic.
We need retail and hospitality, everything working together. You know,
if we don't have thriving retail and hospitality, we can't
(09:51):
give jobs to young creatives coming into the city. You know,
we've built our reputation in Wellington, I being in arts
and creative center, so we need those businesses to thrive.
And you know, the city's so much more than just
transportation route and service industries. You know, when you travel
to a city, you want to go to a really
(10:11):
good cafe or a good restaurant and a good retail shop.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
It's almost the first thing you want to do. That's
the first thing, the first thing you come into a
new town. You say, totally. I went to Melbourne, you know,
a couple of years ago. So where do I get
your coffee? Undred percent? Where's the best breakfast in town?
Isn't it?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Absolutely? When we were in Auckland last week before we went,
we booked two restaurants, you know, same when we went
to Sydney. Always we're hotel close, we can walk to everything.
What's a great restaurant, great place to meet friends, to
have lunch? And then it's what about the shopping?
Speaker 3 (10:40):
So I've got to go to an air break But
I will ask you again, I mean the same question.
A lot of closures in twenty twenty four in retail
as well.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Yeah, a lot of closures and it's been really challenging.
So I think that's, you know, to the to really emphasize.
I think the fact that we really want to find
a way to work together, and we do know that
businesses need to be agile. Businesses can't stay the same
because everything changes around you, so you do also have
(11:09):
to be agile and be able to pivot and change
and be dynamic to the environment that's in front of you.
But there is something when we're seeing such a high
number of businesses in the Wellington region closing, and when
we look at some of the reasons that they're telling
us why they are closing and what their neighboring businesses
will say about the impact of their business closing. If
(11:30):
we think about Thornton Key and the challenges around the
development of the bus and the cycle lanes down there,
it's been really difficult for retailers down there, and I
was drove past there yesterday just before four o'clock it
was completely dead.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Right. I'm going to talk to Michelle because Michelle is
very experienced in Thornton, knows more about Thornton than anyone
else at Wellington. So we will ask those questions when
we come to the Thornton. Let's talk about a horrible
phase that I hated, and I don't think it's going
to make any difference or any change. The phase survived
till You're till twenty five has been uttered by many
of our guests, shy, and people keep talking about it
(12:08):
in retail. Carolyn, what the hell does it mean survive
to twenty five and what are the hopes for your
members for next year?
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Look, I think it's a little bit confusing because everybody
kind of thinks, okatie's get to one January and we're
all good. But ultimately what we know is that those
economic factors is a lag and so it's going to take. Yes,
you need to survive to twenty five, but it's probably
sometime around May or June and twenty five that things
will start turning the corner and they won't be quite
(12:38):
as aggressive as what was first indicated by the Reserve
Bank governor six months ago. So, you know, we do
know the recession has been tough, and we know the
tails has had a big sting to it, and it's
going to be really critical how businesses can use this
quarter because this last quarter of the year is so
critical for retail. If we can make some good sales
(12:59):
in this quarter, they'll be able to get through that
first four or five months of the year, and by
that stage, consumer confidence will have turned around, the economy
will be you know, back on track, and we'll fully
be able to see the benefits of that, and businesses
should be able to flourish.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Michelle, That is, isn't it really? We all this hospitality
is exactly the same. We hope for a big December
because January we know it's going to be quiet, and
then we're hoping what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Well, I think you know, for us in our industry,
December isn't such a big retail month because well, often
we're working on projects that are months out. Obviously in
terms of the Christmas gift byeing and things, it is
important we have brought more stock in for that market.
And you're right because for us, we close, you know,
twenty second of December this year, and don't we actually
(13:46):
closed up for two or three weeks to give us
staff a good long break. So you know, January for
us is a really tough month because you're not earning
anything over January.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
And it's so quiet and it's so smart time, right,
everybody goes it and goes, yeah, we're going away, so yeah,
so good for some.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, so December is and it's also I think a
time for connecting with clients, getting people into the showroom
to have chats and things. So it is important and
hospitality very important.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
So tell me, Michelle, how quickly do you think that
the economic conditions will improve next year. You've heard Carolyn
so she doesn't think it's going to be till May.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I agree with Carolyn. I think you know it's the
lag even though we've had ocr cuts. I think it
doesn't won't impact on people's disposable income, their mortgage when
when they're renewing mortgages, et cetera. And so I do
think it's The first quarter is very much going to
be about sitting. Like we've spent a lot of time
talking about technology and our business, changing up our website,
(14:38):
being a bit more transparent, enterprising, what stock lines we
can bring in that give people sort of instant gratification
if they're going to make a decision. We're looking at
just trying to stay a little bit more relevant in
terms of pivoting because it's important. But I don't think
we're going to see I mean, I'm seeing a few
green shoots, a little bit more confidence, but maybe that's
(15:01):
because we've relocated into the city a new shop, we
have a new business, and people are coming in too,
sort of have a little chat bit of a codado,
who are you, what are you doing here? And picking
up new business from that point of view, but I think,
you know, we just really need to support retail and
hospitality and so that they can thrive in twenty five. Yeah,
because everyone's had the same message, and.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
I ask you both the same question, starting with you, Carolyn,
what do you want to see from your council next year.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
I'd like to see a more collaborative approach around how
we solve the issues in front of us. And I
feel that we all need to be able to sit
and thrash things out and understand that we may not
all agree, but we need to find a way in
which we get the best outcomes for the city. And
that includes everybody, because if you spend you know, millions
(15:48):
and millions of dollars on the Golden Mile and there's
no businesses left to what end. And we know that
Thornton has been a really challenging development and that that's
been difficult for businesses down in that area, and we've
seen some businesses close and councils said to me that
they have learned from that experience and are learning from
(16:10):
what's been happening in Auckland. But actually you have to
take each area as it is. We know that that
businesses are on their knees right now and actually going
out and doing development and changing right now is tough.
We do need some beautification of the Courtley Place area,
don't doubt that and disagree with that at all, but
it's around to what extent do we need to do
(16:30):
that or a city the size of two hundred and
fifty thousand people.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Okay, Michelle, your same question.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah, I think that basically the council needs to think
and talk to Wellingtonian's about rather than coming up with
ideas based on ideology. I think Wellington traditionally Thornton Key
was a destination. You had to have a car to
go down there. It's not somewhere you walked in necessarily,
and if our public transport was better, we could have
(16:58):
made it all work. And we're not Copenhagen. I've been
to Copenhagen, and it always makes me smile when these
consultants came out from Denmark. But most of us live
on hills and we have this very unique flat area.
But you know, all of a sudden rip up car
parking in areas that your business needs those people to
come and visit you and trucks to come and deliver gods.
(17:20):
I think the council, I agree, needs to be more unified.
I would like to think that when they sit down
for their sessions, they say what do we agree about,
what can we agree on, and then go from that
point of view, rather than all of these desperate ideas
that are presented that are presented almost yes, and you know,
I just sort of think sometimes there's just no common
sense in some of the situations. And I would probably
(17:42):
like to see more business focus on the council, someone
who has actually run a business, someone who actually understands
about employing staff.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
You know, Michelle, I want to start with you on
this one. I'm noticing a lot of positivity in the
last few months of the year, with new businesses popping
up around the city and others relocating to other parts
of the town. You've just shifted from kai Firefighter, thorned
and caught. I call it Thornton, you call it kaive
a fighter. To be exact to the CBD, how tough
or how big a decision was this for you to shift?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Quite a significant decision. We've been there for twenty three years.
We've been there for twenty three years. We originally started
our business obviously in Tiarro, and we had also time
in Thorndon. We went to Cafar for it because we
thought it would be easy for people to park outside.
We are a destination brand and would be easy for
our trucks to pull in and deliver goods. Within two
(18:35):
years of being there, we lost our parking from seven
to nine in the morning, which was fine. We worked
with that and it was great, a cycle lane and
a bus lane. And then two years ago we were
notified that we were going to lose all our parking
on the other side of the road, and we knew
that was going to impact on us negatively because we
don't have a public car park in kfor or Fora.
The only way to get there if you don't drive
(18:57):
is by bus. We don't even have a train station anymore.
They'd closed that and then built two hundred houses behind
us on the hill. Not great planning, but you know,
so we decided, right, we need community. A lot of
businesses started to close down there given the changes with
car parking business. It wasn't about customers where with their
staff going to park because it was nowhere for their staff,
and some of these businesses didn't operate during the bus
(19:20):
timetable hours. So we decided we needed more community, and
we went wanted more connection because all my research I'm
doing is that brick and mortar retail is still relevant
and still important. And you know, a shop like ours
and hospitality a restaurant, you people go there to have
a chat, you know, to feel part of a community.
(19:43):
And so we thought and would we live in town.
We live in the city. So for us, as we
run our business, how do we enjoy our business. We
can walk to work, we can get to know our neighbors,
we can get the energy from our neighbors. You know,
it's symbiotic. I think for us, it was a big decision.
Once we made the decision, there was no looking back.
(20:03):
And yes it's a risk, it's a big space we've
at least, but we feel very positive that this area
of Wellington is a unique heritage. Part of Wellington's we're commerce.
They're started and Blair and Allen Street in the early
part of the twentieth centuries.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Taken over by those horrible nightclubs and bars, terrible places
reverting back, aren't.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
They misspent youth? But look, I think we need vibrant hospitality.
We need vibrant and wonderful retail experiences because that's how
we bring people into our city.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
And retail is all about customer service. It's about engaging
and connecting with people as they come in store. And
we know that eighty five percent of sales and retail
happened through bricks and mortar. They don't happen online.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
There's a big eight. I would have thought that was miles.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
Yeah, there's a big misnomer that that a lot of
people buy online, but actually they still come into store.
Most people actually look online first and they do their
research online first and then they come into store. And
when you sell, when you're in a sector like all
of the stores down Thornton and Co Fight, where you
are destined stores where you generally people would go, they
(21:09):
would drive to those stores. They would work around They
might need a vehicle to transport any item they've bought,
or they might order something for delivery. You need to
have you need to know that you can go and
park and be able to have good access. And it's
such an open area down through there. If it's terrible
weather and you can't park, people won't go because you
(21:31):
know you are going to get the full throttle of
the wind and rain and Wellington and so you've really
got to think about that, about the whole space and
how do we accommodate those that do want to use
a vehicle and those that do want to use a
bus or a bike, and how do we get that
integration of everybody working together, not one at isolation to
(21:51):
the other.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Can I just interrupt their Karon just to ask you
have you seen any positive change lately? And the retail
set the saying they're now looking to Lisa looking to
open up again.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
We are hearing some positive sales stories from a number
of variety of stores, and that's really around people identifying
niches in the market, being more agile, pivoting to make
sure that they are addressing those areas where there's an opportunity,
and so being really and then also providing really good
customer service. Customer service drives seventy percent of sales in retail.
(22:25):
So if you've got really good customer engagement and customer
service and you're welcoming people in your store, you're going
to sell more. We all know what it's like, don't we.
Michelle and we go into a shop and we get
really well looked to have to we sometimes spend more
than we just feel comfortable.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Involve me in this too, you know it involve me.
I mean we feel comfortable. We just feel like, oh,
that was a good service. I will buy something. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
I had a great experience at Unity yesterday, which is
one of my favorite Wellington businesses, and another great experience
at more Wilsons. And those are the businesses that I
always go back to because I get amazing customer serves
and we pride ourselves on giving amazing customer seves. I mean,
we had a fabulous Saturday in our showroom and a
lot of it is around that's taking time to listen
(23:08):
to people what do they need. We also offer something
that you can't do online. We lend people product to
take home and try. If you're looking at buying something
that's an expensive product, for their home. But I think
you know everything I'm reading at the moment. Even big
behome online businesses like Amazon are now investing in brick
and mortar because they understand is how you get a
(23:29):
much better customer experience.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Absolutely, I think it's really critical and you just that
human touch that you get from that experience. And we
if nothing else that we've got out of COVID, surely
we've got that. We want to engage with each other.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Now.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
I want to move quite quickly on a couple of
things because I'm running out of time and I'm enjoying
the company. I'm hearing a number of businesses and negotiating
really really hard on lease deals, even asking for things
like six or eight months free rent on a five
year lease. Now, I haven't heard of deals like this
for a long time. Michelle, you have done a lot
of negotiating for leases over years, and what have you
(24:07):
heard around town? There's some really good deals out there.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
I think there are deals to be had. I think
the biggest issue in Wellington the op X. You know,
it's not just about the rent, you know, the biggest
issue is you know, and in the bigger the space,
the more problematic that is. But I think landlords who
are probably understanding that they need someone in their building
(24:31):
are going to be able to have a little chat
to you. And I think it's far better to get
someone in your space than have it empty. And I
think a lot of landlords understand now. I mean, I
know that this is what happened done Britain, mart and Auckland.
They made these leases happen. They've got people in six
months free rent just to get them in to so
show them how good the space can be. So I
(24:53):
would like to see some of our landlords here in Wellington,
you know, basically offer some free.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
They need to be more flexible.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
They need to be far more flexible because you know,
I think it's really important we need that activity in
our city.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
You here in Karen well you've got a number of
businesses that you don't want to have empty stores next
to you or two or three down the road. So
if you can have all of the stores full, it
generates and it generates foot traffic and people coming in.
The businesses are going to thrive, they'll be more settled,
they'll be able, you'll have sustainability through it. Nobody wants
(25:29):
to see empty shop runts.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
But certainly are you hearing deals are getting done? No,
pretty good deals.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
It's a great opportunity to do good deals right now.
And I think when landlords aren't being flexible in that space,
there's enough empty space that that businesses can go somewhere
else and ask the same questions.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Yeah, well, I want to talk next about events. I
think big events are really crucial to our city being
buoyant again. I mean, I'm thinking of when we had
the sevens, when we had the car races. Some of
us would remember the car races in the city. We
seem you know, big concerts at sky Stadium, you know,
big stuff happening in the city. It just makes your
city feel better. We're heading into summer where we typically
(26:09):
see a lot of events. The second Black Caps versus
England test and Debase and Reserve over the weekend saw
two or three days completely sold out. Great. How are
important are events krolent to our city?
Speaker 4 (26:23):
Critical? Absolutely? We know an event like Wow, for example,
brings a lot of people into the city and they
come in and not only do they spend in retail,
but they shop through hospitality. They go and see a
wide range of sites around Wellington, that they go to Tipapa,
they will go to the tanical gardens, they might go
to the Bigonia House, to all sorts of different areas
(26:46):
that create engagement and interest in the city. And then
they go back and they tell their friends and farna
about what they've seen and they get them to come
into the city. And so events are critical for getting
people in and getting the bend up to support businesses.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Did either of you see any of the coverage of
the Test match between the Black Caps and England where
they had the zoom the photos of all over Wellington.
Oh my god, I actually physically had a tear at
one stage. I went, we forget, we forget. We live
in the most beautiful city in the world.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
And the Saturday images were amazing because the sky was blue,
although there was a bit of wind. Yesterday was pretty gray.
But it's still such a beautiful, pictorisque city to come
to that when you see those sites, it does look
like a Pacific island almost, and you might be thinking
that it's thirty degrees outside, but it is just so
beautiful and picturesque and so easy to access. Oh you
(27:43):
wonder why people wouldn't want to come here.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
It's such a compact, beautiful city and a natural harbor.
I mean, you know, walking around orange or bad. I
went to Harbourside Market yesterday, even in the wind, it
was still a joyous occasion.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
I remember a net king doing this exact show with
me as a guest, and she said, you know, Nick,
I wish people would stop moaning about Wellington if we
had decent weather, when none of us would be able
to afford to live here. That's right.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
This is the most livable city I've ever lived in.
You know, I'm lucky I live in the city. I
walk everywhere. We hardly use the car, you know, and
I love the fact that, you know, going back, I'm
not against cycle lanes. I think it's great that people
can ride through the city. It's just that I think
we need to have a little bit more balanced conversation
around you know, businesses, cycle lanes, walking, et cetera. But
(28:31):
this city, I can walk all my favorite restaurants, you know, food,
you know, supermarkets, museums, galleries. It's fantastic.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Now, sorry, once again, Michelle was very rude to me
to cut in. But I want to ask you one
quick question, yes or no from both of you, because
I want to find out where you take someone special?
Yes or no? Does it concern you that there's no
big events at sky Stadium over the next field.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
And no, absolutely it does concern me absolutely.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Right the time that I most enjoy with our business
hours to ask our guests someone extremely's someone that means
really a lot to you, like a mother or father,
or an auntie or a uncle that's never been to Wellington before.
You're picking them up at eleven o'clock tomorrow, Carolyn Young,
what are you going to do with them?
Speaker 4 (29:18):
Well, if we say someone really special, like my mother
who sadly passed about twenty years ago, but she loved roses.
So I would take mom to the rose garden in
the Botanical Gardens and we'd go through the beginning house
for a couple of reasons. One is because it's really
beautiful it's protected from the wind. But two it's because
it might not be there much longer, so you really
(29:39):
need to get out there and see what's there, have
lunch in the cafe there, head lunch over the weekend.
It was really lovely, and then it would go up
to the top of the potential gardens to the skyline
there and see that amazing view. Take some good photos
to have lasting memories.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Right Michelle, We've got a lovely text here saying that
she's the youngest youngish listener, saying to a big shout
out to you because you help young creative people. Also
had a couple of texts asking if you'd stand thought
about standing for me. I've already had that conversation with you,
which you've laughed at me. But anyway, what are you
going to do with that very special person before you
(30:16):
become mayor of Wellington? You've picked them up at the airport,
and what are you going to do with them?
Speaker 2 (30:20):
I would pick them up at the airport and drive
them around Orangele Bay because it's the most beautiful harbor
and we might stop for a moment. We might even
go for a walk, probably run into about ten people
we know, because that's Wellington. I would probably take them
maybe to Prefab for lunch, because it's got great vibes
and great energy and Bridget's always amazing. She always makes
(30:41):
you welcome. I would probably Botanical Gardens. Oh my gosh.
We spent so many fabulous visits there, went to weddings there,
our children played sport on Anderson Park, we might even
take a drive up to the top of Mount Victoria
just to have a look at our amazing city and dinner. Well,
(31:02):
I love Rita, it's one of my favorite restaurants. Well,
we might be heading off to who knows in the
near future.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Hopefully in the near future. Retail New Zealand Chief Executive
Karen and I'm merry Christmas and thank you for all
you do for Wellington and retail people and our show.
I hope you have a really good break. I know
you're going away. You're skouting about that before. Michelle Beckhouse,
thank you and thank you for bringing your amazing business
to Courtney Place. I think it looks beautiful, it's fantastic.
Hopefully you've got a good deal from one of the
(31:29):
hardest landlords in the country. So hopefully you've got a
good deal and got a bit of free rent out
of it. But we welcome you to that area and
hope that that after your little breakover New Year, you
think twice about running for mea and put your name
in the hat and say ah, I can let my
family run the retail part. I'll go for Meya or
Wellington would be great, both of you. Thank you have
a Great Christmas.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd Be Wellington from nine am week days,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Said, b.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Your inside word on all things business in the Capitol
with Quinovac, better systems, better reporting, better call, quinobeck, oh
eight hundred quinovic.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
No, I'm not going to dance with Carolyn Young Whliff
and Hell Retail New Zealand chief executive Carolyn Young loves
a Simon. She's that I'm trying to dance. You're what
they say about white woman, I can't dance? Well went
on that neck. Well, I just said it. I didn't
expect you to make a comment. I just said, white
woman can't dance. Oh, I started all right. We started
(00:58):
the business balts the last one of the year. I
could have some fun Cutter Absolutely. Thank you Carolyn Young
for joining us and back our Centteria owner Michelle beck Out. Michelle,
welcome to the show. It's the first time you've done it,
but your family business has been iconic in our city
for as long as I possibly can remember.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Thank you, Nick. It's great to be here. And yes,
we've been in Wellington since nineteen forty eight, starting off
as a manufacturing business just off Courtney Place, and our
latest iteration is coming back. What we're sort of returning
home into the Courtney Place precinct, into Allen Street. So
we're very excited about the positive change that can bring about,
(01:39):
hopefully lighting a bit of a bombfar and getting other
like minded businesses to move back into the city.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
And I can tell you that your new shop is beautiful.
It's been well done. It feels good. You had a
look girl. Not yet come on your retail in New Zealand.
Big shop opens like that downtown. You should be walking
in and saying this is fantastic. No, congratulations, it looks great.
We are later in the show going to talk about
you shifting there and the reasons why you shift this.
But I want to start the show by looking back
(02:05):
on twenty twenty four. It's our final show of the
year for business panel, not for the show. We've got
another week to go with the show, but our business
is our last business panel and it's been a big
and I would say eventful year for business people. Karen,
I'll start with you twenty twenty four, give us your thoughts,
your members thoughts. How will you remember twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Look, it's been tough, you mean, we can't we just
can't get past that. I mean, we've had lots of
engagement with members around how difficult it's been for them
for all sorts of different reasons in the highs of
the election last year and people's optimism around things turning
around really quickly, when in reality, the economy takes some time,
(02:48):
and we're probably still three or six months away from
really feeling the impositive impact of the levers that the
Reserve Bank's been pulling. So getting through the next three
or six months is going to be really important. And
the fact that you know, with our saying now that
thereovery won't be as strong as what they anticipated, So
(03:10):
everyone's been doing it tough, and you know, consumers and retailers.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Michelle Beckhouse, you're one of the most positive people that
I've ever met. Now I've only just met you, so
it's not like we're long good old buddies or anything.
But I met you about a month ago for the
first time, obviously knew who you were. You're very positive people.
How was person How was twenty twenty four for you?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I agree with Carolyn, it's probably been the most challenging
year we've ever experienced in business, and we have a
business not just in Wellington but in Auckland, and we
also have distribution around the country. I think the hardest
thing is that it doesn't matter how much money you earn.
Everyone's felt really challenged this year in terms of their
disposable income and I think it's very difficult for us
(03:56):
in our type of business. How do you plan, you know,
what sort of stopped do you bring in? You know,
also taking on extra staff, you know, and so I
would say this year our team has worked harder and
longer hours than ever before. We decided not to take
on additional pairs of hands because we didn't know how
the year was going to you know, travel We normally
(04:18):
employ industrial design students and this is the first year
we decided not to because we thought we can do
it ourselves. And that's you know, trying to put more
money into the important things in the business.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
You have to make decisions that are right for the
business because you're thinking about the sustainability of the business
and you've had to absorb lots of increases from leases
to insurances to you know, wage increases. You know, there's
lots of other impacts that have been really big on
businesses that have made it really difficult to withstand and
(04:53):
think about planning because you don't know how many customers
are coming in the door and really what stock you're
going to have. So the worst thing for a retailer
is not having enough stock, and the worst thing for
a retailer is having too much stock.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Resolutely very fortunate we had a relocation sell in Wellington
and we are that brand. It does carry a lot
of stock and that was our as card I guess
we had. We didn't have an eye in stock. We
could sell existing stock lines all good stock and also
get a bit of you know, traction in the sort
of brick and mortar side of what we do because
(05:25):
people had to come in to have a look and
see what those pieces were. But I think for us
to in our business, it's been the high cost of
freight and the fact that it hasn't been as much
freight coming down into Wellington, and of course problems with
ferries and getting freight in South Island. That's been a
bit of a logistical nightmare as well. And a lot
of these freight companies, like international freight companies, they wait
(05:47):
until they fill up their vessels. It's to make it
takes longer, so it takes longer. So we've just had
a shipment, for example, it was supposed to be here
from Italy last week and it basically the container got
dropped off forty foot container in Singapore because I suspect
they just didn't have enough freight coming down and they're
waiting for a vessel to be fully subscribed. Those extra costs,
(06:07):
extra costs.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
Yeah, they make a really big difference. So you've got
extra time frame. You're trying to juggle worth in order
to get to get stock on the shelves when you
promise it, and the cost and time of getting it
here is just continuing to increase, both internationally and domestically.
I do think we might be hearing an announcement after
cabinet today around the fairies, so.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
We're going to be ready. Have you heard something on that.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
I heard a whisper that there might be an announcement today,
so we know that they were going to announce something
before the eleventh, So that's only two days away, so
it's not today, it's in the next couple of days.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Michelle, I want to ask you because I know you
know once again the positivity, but I mean, how has
government and council decisions? How have they affected you as
a business. You've got a new government, they'll make changes.
We've got a council that's not wouldn't I wouldn't classify
them as the most popular council. The decisions that are making.
How has that affected you as a business woman in
(06:57):
the city.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I think the biggest problem I've had in Wellington is
lack of confidence, and that unfortunately filters down to consumers.
Don't feel confident in terms of you know, the rates
have you know that's a huge eighteen percent. In Auckland,
we're only paying seven percent. So there's lots of discussions
around that. You can see businesses saying, well, do we
(07:20):
expand in Wellington or do we expand in Auckland because
it's a little bit more business friendly up there, even
though they've still got the same issues around retail challenges.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
I think volume people people.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
We're two hundred and sixty thousand and Wellington Greater Wellington
for sixty so it's economy of scale once again.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
But I think there haven's really given me the out one.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
I'm going to say, if we'd had more unified leadership
in the city, that would have been helpful. If we'd
had less emphasis on transportation in the city in terms
of cycle lanes, that would have been helpful. If we'd
had more support and around businesses and what they can
do to help businesses thrive, that would have been helpful.
And the consultation we've experienced with council has not always
(08:06):
been helped for In fact, it's been negligible and really challenging.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
And I think to your point, there has to be
a way that we can find for commuters whether you're
on a bike or you're walking, or you're running, or
you're in a car or on a bus or on
a train, and businesses to be able to coexist because
we can't work in isolation. You know, if there aren't
businesses and hospitality and retail out there, people aren't going
(08:34):
to come into the city, and if there aren't accessible
ways to get there, they're not going to come either.
So you can't disrupt everything so much so that businesses
close down or they move premises because of the decisions
that are being made. We've got to find a way
to coexist into more collaborative around how we want to
work together. And it feels very isolating at the moment
(08:56):
and the consultation that has taken place by the council.
When you ask any business about the consultation, they say
that they don't feel they've been consulted and counselor adamant
that they have. So you know, there's a disconnect there.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
What about closures to both of you, I mean, Michelle,
there's been a lot of business closes, as we heard
this morning that Myrtle, you know, very successful bakery. Now,
I think that's just down to the fact that they
must have had a good lease or a lease that
was you know, the building's up for sale and they
want to put apartment, so I think that's purely down
to a lease there. But that's me speculating. I don't know,
But there's been too many closures.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Well, I hope they come back again because they're a
great business. They have the larder and mirrama, so maybe
it's just for them pausing knowing that they can't stay
in the existing space. But the closures, I mean, it's symbiotic.
We need retail and hospitality, everything working together. You know,
if we don't have thriving retail and hospitality, we can't
(09:51):
give jobs to young creatives coming into the city. You know,
we've built our reputation in Wellington, I being in arts
and creative center, so we need those businesses to thrive.
And you know, the city's so much more than just
transportation route and service industries. You know, when you travel
to a city, you want to go to a really
(10:11):
good cafe or a good restaurant and a good retail shop.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
It's almost the first thing you want to do. That's
the first thing, the first thing you come into a
new town. You say, totally. I went to Melbourne, you know,
a couple of years ago. So where do I get
your coffee? Undred percent? Where's the best breakfast in town?
Isn't it?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Absolutely? When we were in Auckland last week before we went,
we booked two restaurants, you know, same when we went
to Sydney. Always we're hotel close, we can walk to everything.
What's a great restaurant, great place to meet friends, to
have lunch? And then it's what about the shopping?
Speaker 3 (10:40):
So I've got to go to an air break But
I will ask you again, I mean the same question.
A lot of closures in twenty twenty four in retail
as well.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Yeah, a lot of closures and it's been really challenging.
So I think that's, you know, to the to really emphasize.
I think the fact that we really want to find
a way to work together, and we do know that
businesses need to be agile. Businesses can't stay the same
because everything changes around you, so you do also have
(11:09):
to be agile and be able to pivot and change
and be dynamic to the environment that's in front of you.
But there is something when we're seeing such a high
number of businesses in the Wellington region closing, and when
we look at some of the reasons that they're telling
us why they are closing and what their neighboring businesses
will say about the impact of their business closing. If
(11:30):
we think about Thornton Key and the challenges around the
development of the bus and the cycle lanes down there,
it's been really difficult for retailers down there, and I
was drove past there yesterday just before four o'clock it
was completely dead.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Right. I'm going to talk to Michelle because Michelle is
very experienced in Thornton, knows more about Thornton than anyone
else at Wellington. So we will ask those questions when
we come to the Thornton. Let's talk about a horrible
phase that I hated, and I don't think it's going
to make any difference or any change. The phase survived
till You're till twenty five has been uttered by many
of our guests, shy, and people keep talking about it
(12:08):
in retail. Carolyn, what the hell does it mean survive
to twenty five and what are the hopes for your
members for next year?
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Look, I think it's a little bit confusing because everybody
kind of thinks, okatie's get to one January and we're
all good. But ultimately what we know is that those
economic factors is a lag and so it's going to take. Yes,
you need to survive to twenty five, but it's probably
sometime around May or June and twenty five that things
will start turning the corner and they won't be quite
(12:38):
as aggressive as what was first indicated by the Reserve
Bank governor six months ago. So, you know, we do
know the recession has been tough, and we know the
tails has had a big sting to it, and it's
going to be really critical how businesses can use this
quarter because this last quarter of the year is so
critical for retail. If we can make some good sales
(12:59):
in this quarter, they'll be able to get through that
first four or five months of the year, and by
that stage, consumer confidence will have turned around, the economy
will be you know, back on track, and we'll fully
be able to see the benefits of that, and businesses
should be able to flourish.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Michelle, That is, isn't it really? We all this hospitality
is exactly the same. We hope for a big December
because January we know it's going to be quiet, and
then we're hoping what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Well, I think you know, for us in our industry,
December isn't such a big retail month because well, often
we're working on projects that are months out. Obviously in
terms of the Christmas gift byeing and things, it is
important we have brought more stock in for that market.
And you're right because for us, we close, you know,
twenty second of December this year, and don't we actually
(13:46):
closed up for two or three weeks to give us
staff a good long break. So you know, January for
us is a really tough month because you're not earning
anything over January.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
And it's so quiet and it's so smart time, right,
everybody goes it and goes, yeah, we're going away, so yeah,
so good for some.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, so December is and it's also I think a
time for connecting with clients, getting people into the showroom
to have chats and things. So it is important and
hospitality very important.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
So tell me, Michelle, how quickly do you think that
the economic conditions will improve next year. You've heard Carolyn
so she doesn't think it's going to be till May.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I agree with Carolyn. I think you know it's the
lag even though we've had ocr cuts. I think it
doesn't won't impact on people's disposable income, their mortgage when
when they're renewing mortgages, et cetera. And so I do
think it's The first quarter is very much going to
be about sitting. Like we've spent a lot of time
talking about technology and our business, changing up our website,
(14:38):
being a bit more transparent, enterprising, what stock lines we
can bring in that give people sort of instant gratification
if they're going to make a decision. We're looking at
just trying to stay a little bit more relevant in
terms of pivoting because it's important. But I don't think
we're going to see I mean, I'm seeing a few
green shoots, a little bit more confidence, but maybe that's
(15:01):
because we've relocated into the city a new shop, we
have a new business, and people are coming in too,
sort of have a little chat bit of a codado,
who are you, what are you doing here? And picking
up new business from that point of view, but I think,
you know, we just really need to support retail and
hospitality and so that they can thrive in twenty five. Yeah,
because everyone's had the same message, and.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
I ask you both the same question, starting with you, Carolyn,
what do you want to see from your council next year.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
I'd like to see a more collaborative approach around how
we solve the issues in front of us. And I
feel that we all need to be able to sit
and thrash things out and understand that we may not
all agree, but we need to find a way in
which we get the best outcomes for the city. And
that includes everybody, because if you spend you know, millions
(15:48):
and millions of dollars on the Golden Mile and there's
no businesses left to what end. And we know that
Thornton has been a really challenging development and that that's
been difficult for businesses down in that area, and we've
seen some businesses close and councils said to me that
they have learned from that experience and are learning from
(16:10):
what's been happening in Auckland. But actually you have to
take each area as it is. We know that that
businesses are on their knees right now and actually going
out and doing development and changing right now is tough.
We do need some beautification of the Courtley Place area,
don't doubt that and disagree with that at all, but
it's around to what extent do we need to do
(16:30):
that or a city the size of two hundred and
fifty thousand people.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Okay, Michelle, your same question.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah, I think that basically the council needs to think
and talk to Wellingtonian's about rather than coming up with
ideas based on ideology. I think Wellington traditionally Thornton Key
was a destination. You had to have a car to
go down there. It's not somewhere you walked in necessarily,
and if our public transport was better, we could have
(16:58):
made it all work. And we're not Copenhagen. I've been
to Copenhagen, and it always makes me smile when these
consultants came out from Denmark. But most of us live
on hills and we have this very unique flat area.
But you know, all of a sudden rip up car
parking in areas that your business needs those people to
come and visit you and trucks to come and deliver gods.
(17:20):
I think the council, I agree, needs to be more unified.
I would like to think that when they sit down
for their sessions, they say what do we agree about,
what can we agree on, and then go from that
point of view, rather than all of these desperate ideas
that are presented that are presented almost yes, and you know,
I just sort of think sometimes there's just no common
sense in some of the situations. And I would probably
(17:42):
like to see more business focus on the council, someone
who has actually run a business, someone who actually understands
about employing staff.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
You know, Michelle, I want to start with you on
this one. I'm noticing a lot of positivity in the
last few months of the year, with new businesses popping
up around the city and others relocating to other parts
of the town. You've just shifted from kai Firefighter, thorned
and caught. I call it Thornton, you call it kaive
a fighter. To be exact to the CBD, how tough
or how big a decision was this for you to shift?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Quite a significant decision. We've been there for twenty three years.
We've been there for twenty three years. We originally started
our business obviously in Tiarro, and we had also time
in Thorndon. We went to Cafar for it because we
thought it would be easy for people to park outside.
We are a destination brand and would be easy for
our trucks to pull in and deliver goods. Within two
(18:35):
years of being there, we lost our parking from seven
to nine in the morning, which was fine. We worked
with that and it was great, a cycle lane and
a bus lane. And then two years ago we were
notified that we were going to lose all our parking
on the other side of the road, and we knew
that was going to impact on us negatively because we
don't have a public car park in kfor or Fora.
The only way to get there if you don't drive
(18:57):
is by bus. We don't even have a train station anymore.
They'd closed that and then built two hundred houses behind
us on the hill. Not great planning, but you know,
so we decided, right, we need community. A lot of
businesses started to close down there given the changes with
car parking business. It wasn't about customers where with their
staff going to park because it was nowhere for their staff,
and some of these businesses didn't operate during the bus
(19:20):
timetable hours. So we decided we needed more community, and
we went wanted more connection because all my research I'm
doing is that brick and mortar retail is still relevant
and still important. And you know, a shop like ours
and hospitality a restaurant, you people go there to have
a chat, you know, to feel part of a community.
(19:43):
And so we thought and would we live in town.
We live in the city. So for us, as we
run our business, how do we enjoy our business. We
can walk to work, we can get to know our neighbors,
we can get the energy from our neighbors. You know,
it's symbiotic. I think for us, it was a big decision.
Once we made the decision, there was no looking back.
(20:03):
And yes it's a risk, it's a big space we've
at least, but we feel very positive that this area
of Wellington is a unique heritage. Part of Wellington's we're commerce.
They're started and Blair and Allen Street in the early
part of the twentieth centuries.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Taken over by those horrible nightclubs and bars, terrible places
reverting back, aren't.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
They misspent youth? But look, I think we need vibrant hospitality.
We need vibrant and wonderful retail experiences because that's how
we bring people into our city.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
And retail is all about customer service. It's about engaging
and connecting with people as they come in store. And
we know that eighty five percent of sales and retail
happened through bricks and mortar. They don't happen online.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
There's a big eight. I would have thought that was miles.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
Yeah, there's a big misnomer that that a lot of
people buy online, but actually they still come into store.
Most people actually look online first and they do their
research online first and then they come into store. And
when you sell, when you're in a sector like all
of the stores down Thornton and Co Fight, where you
are destined stores where you generally people would go, they
(21:09):
would drive to those stores. They would work around They
might need a vehicle to transport any item they've bought,
or they might order something for delivery. You need to
have you need to know that you can go and
park and be able to have good access. And it's
such an open area down through there. If it's terrible
weather and you can't park, people won't go because you
(21:31):
know you are going to get the full throttle of
the wind and rain and Wellington and so you've really
got to think about that, about the whole space and
how do we accommodate those that do want to use
a vehicle and those that do want to use a
bus or a bike, and how do we get that
integration of everybody working together, not one at isolation to
(21:51):
the other.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Can I just interrupt their Karon just to ask you
have you seen any positive change lately? And the retail
set the saying they're now looking to Lisa looking to
open up again.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
We are hearing some positive sales stories from a number
of variety of stores, and that's really around people identifying
niches in the market, being more agile, pivoting to make
sure that they are addressing those areas where there's an opportunity,
and so being really and then also providing really good
customer service. Customer service drives seventy percent of sales in retail.
(22:25):
So if you've got really good customer engagement and customer
service and you're welcoming people in your store, you're going
to sell more. We all know what it's like, don't we.
Michelle and we go into a shop and we get
really well looked to have to we sometimes spend more
than we just feel comfortable.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Involve me in this too, you know it involve me.
I mean we feel comfortable. We just feel like, oh,
that was a good service. I will buy something. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
I had a great experience at Unity yesterday, which is
one of my favorite Wellington businesses, and another great experience
at more Wilsons. And those are the businesses that I
always go back to because I get amazing customer serves
and we pride ourselves on giving amazing customer seves. I mean,
we had a fabulous Saturday in our showroom and a
lot of it is around that's taking time to listen
(23:08):
to people what do they need. We also offer something
that you can't do online. We lend people product to
take home and try. If you're looking at buying something
that's an expensive product, for their home. But I think
you know everything I'm reading at the moment. Even big
behome online businesses like Amazon are now investing in brick
and mortar because they understand is how you get a
(23:29):
much better customer experience.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Absolutely, I think it's really critical and you just that
human touch that you get from that experience. And we
if nothing else that we've got out of COVID, surely
we've got that. We want to engage with each other.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Now.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
I want to move quite quickly on a couple of
things because I'm running out of time and I'm enjoying
the company. I'm hearing a number of businesses and negotiating
really really hard on lease deals, even asking for things
like six or eight months free rent on a five
year lease. Now, I haven't heard of deals like this
for a long time. Michelle, you have done a lot
of negotiating for leases over years, and what have you
(24:07):
heard around town? There's some really good deals out there.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
I think there are deals to be had. I think
the biggest issue in Wellington the op X. You know,
it's not just about the rent, you know, the biggest
issue is you know, and in the bigger the space,
the more problematic that is. But I think landlords who
are probably understanding that they need someone in their building
(24:31):
are going to be able to have a little chat
to you. And I think it's far better to get
someone in your space than have it empty. And I
think a lot of landlords understand now. I mean, I
know that this is what happened done Britain, mart and Auckland.
They made these leases happen. They've got people in six
months free rent just to get them in to so
show them how good the space can be. So I
(24:53):
would like to see some of our landlords here in Wellington,
you know, basically offer some free.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
They need to be more flexible.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
They need to be far more flexible because you know,
I think it's really important we need that activity in
our city.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
You here in Karen well you've got a number of
businesses that you don't want to have empty stores next
to you or two or three down the road. So
if you can have all of the stores full, it
generates and it generates foot traffic and people coming in.
The businesses are going to thrive, they'll be more settled,
they'll be able, you'll have sustainability through it. Nobody wants
(25:29):
to see empty shop runts.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
But certainly are you hearing deals are getting done? No,
pretty good deals.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
It's a great opportunity to do good deals right now.
And I think when landlords aren't being flexible in that space,
there's enough empty space that that businesses can go somewhere
else and ask the same questions.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Yeah, well, I want to talk next about events. I
think big events are really crucial to our city being
buoyant again. I mean, I'm thinking of when we had
the sevens, when we had the car races. Some of
us would remember the car races in the city. We
seem you know, big concerts at sky Stadium, you know,
big stuff happening in the city. It just makes your
city feel better. We're heading into summer where we typically
(26:09):
see a lot of events. The second Black Caps versus
England test and Debase and Reserve over the weekend saw
two or three days completely sold out. Great. How are
important are events krolent to our city?
Speaker 4 (26:23):
Critical? Absolutely? We know an event like Wow, for example,
brings a lot of people into the city and they
come in and not only do they spend in retail,
but they shop through hospitality. They go and see a
wide range of sites around Wellington, that they go to Tipapa,
they will go to the tanical gardens, they might go
to the Bigonia House, to all sorts of different areas
(26:46):
that create engagement and interest in the city. And then
they go back and they tell their friends and farna
about what they've seen and they get them to come
into the city. And so events are critical for getting
people in and getting the bend up to support businesses.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Did either of you see any of the coverage of
the Test match between the Black Caps and England where
they had the zoom the photos of all over Wellington.
Oh my god, I actually physically had a tear at
one stage. I went, we forget, we forget. We live
in the most beautiful city in the world.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
And the Saturday images were amazing because the sky was blue,
although there was a bit of wind. Yesterday was pretty gray.
But it's still such a beautiful, pictorisque city to come
to that when you see those sites, it does look
like a Pacific island almost, and you might be thinking
that it's thirty degrees outside, but it is just so
beautiful and picturesque and so easy to access. Oh you
(27:43):
wonder why people wouldn't want to come here.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
It's such a compact, beautiful city and a natural harbor.
I mean, you know, walking around orange or bad. I
went to Harbourside Market yesterday, even in the wind, it
was still a joyous occasion.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
I remember a net king doing this exact show with
me as a guest, and she said, you know, Nick,
I wish people would stop moaning about Wellington if we
had decent weather, when none of us would be able
to afford to live here. That's right.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
This is the most livable city I've ever lived in.
You know, I'm lucky I live in the city. I
walk everywhere. We hardly use the car, you know, and
I love the fact that, you know, going back, I'm
not against cycle lanes. I think it's great that people
can ride through the city. It's just that I think
we need to have a little bit more balanced conversation
around you know, businesses, cycle lanes, walking, et cetera. But
(28:31):
this city, I can walk all my favorite restaurants, you know, food,
you know, supermarkets, museums, galleries. It's fantastic.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Now, sorry, once again, Michelle was very rude to me
to cut in. But I want to ask you one
quick question, yes or no from both of you, because
I want to find out where you take someone special?
Yes or no? Does it concern you that there's no
big events at sky Stadium over the next field.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
And no, absolutely it does concern me absolutely.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Right the time that I most enjoy with our business
hours to ask our guests someone extremely's someone that means
really a lot to you, like a mother or father,
or an auntie or a uncle that's never been to Wellington before.
You're picking them up at eleven o'clock tomorrow, Carolyn Young,
what are you going to do with them?
Speaker 4 (29:18):
Well, if we say someone really special, like my mother
who sadly passed about twenty years ago, but she loved roses.
So I would take mom to the rose garden in
the Botanical Gardens and we'd go through the beginning house
for a couple of reasons. One is because it's really
beautiful it's protected from the wind. But two it's because
it might not be there much longer, so you really
(29:39):
need to get out there and see what's there, have
lunch in the cafe there, head lunch over the weekend.
It was really lovely, and then it would go up
to the top of the potential gardens to the skyline
there and see that amazing view. Take some good photos
to have lasting memories.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Right Michelle, We've got a lovely text here saying that
she's the youngest youngish listener, saying to a big shout
out to you because you help young creative people. Also
had a couple of texts asking if you'd stand thought
about standing for me. I've already had that conversation with you,
which you've laughed at me. But anyway, what are you
going to do with that very special person before you
(30:16):
become mayor of Wellington? You've picked them up at the airport,
and what are you going to do with them?
Speaker 2 (30:20):
I would pick them up at the airport and drive
them around Orangele Bay because it's the most beautiful harbor
and we might stop for a moment. We might even
go for a walk, probably run into about ten people
we know, because that's Wellington. I would probably take them
maybe to Prefab for lunch, because it's got great vibes
and great energy and Bridget's always amazing. She always makes
(30:41):
you welcome. I would probably Botanical Gardens. Oh my gosh.
We spent so many fabulous visits there, went to weddings there,
our children played sport on Anderson Park, we might even
take a drive up to the top of Mount Victoria
just to have a look at our amazing city and dinner. Well,
(31:02):
I love Rita, it's one of my favorite restaurants. Well,
we might be heading off to who knows in the
near future.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Hopefully in the near future. Retail New Zealand Chief Executive
Karen and I'm merry Christmas and thank you for all
you do for Wellington and retail people and our show.
I hope you have a really good break. I know
you're going away. You're skouting about that before. Michelle Beckhouse,
thank you and thank you for bringing your amazing business
to Courtney Place. I think it looks beautiful, it's fantastic.
Hopefully you've got a good deal from one of the
(31:29):
hardest landlords in the country. So hopefully you've got a
good deal and got a bit of free rent out
of it. But we welcome you to that area and
hope that that after your little breakover New Year, you
think twice about running for mea and put your name
in the hat and say ah, I can let my
family run the retail part. I'll go for Meya or
Wellington would be great, both of you. Thank you have
a Great Christmas.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd Be Wellington from nine am week days,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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