Fleur Fitzsimons: PSA acting national secretary on David Seymour's calls to explore privatisation

Act leader David Seymour used his state of the nation speech last week to call for a discussion on privatisation - including of the health system.

Seymour told his supporters New Zealanders need to get past the "squeamishness of privatisation", and suggested the health system could be privatised, with the government funding medical insurance for individuals.

Responding to the suggestions, Public Service Association acting national secretary Fleur Fitzsimons said private healthcare systems haven't worked overseas.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said b.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Joining us on the show this morning is Public Service
Association's acting National secretary flur Fit Simon's.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
Good morning Flirt, Good morning Mack.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
How are you good weekend?

Speaker 3 (00:25):
Very well? Thank you.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yes, you went to tossing and turning and stressed about that
word privatization.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
Well, I'm obviously not very impressed with the act Party's
right wing commitment to further privatization, and also very worried
about the Prime Minister's casual attitude to it. He says
he's open to a conversation. I think New Zealand has
deserved better than that.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
What is so bad about privatization.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
Well, privatization benefits private companies. It is set up that way,
and it is set up to benefit those who can
already afford it. If you think about private health and education,
the people that can afford private health and education do
very well out of a privatized system. Everybody else is
left behind. And the experience of privatization in New Zealand

(01:20):
is a very divisive and very dangerous one because what
we've seen if you look at the banking industry, we
used to have publicly owned banks. Now we have mainly
Australian owned banks with all the profit going offshore, no
regional services that we used to have all around New Zealand.
And that's a direct response to privatizing those banks. But

(01:41):
you can see it over and over again when it's
being tried and failed in prisoned in New Zealand's another
good example rail electricity. It has a terrible history in
New Zealand and it's now really an extreme right wing policy.
And I'm not surprised that ACT are the only political
party who are really promoting the privatization agenda.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
What about if they work hand in hand? I mean,
I mean, I think our education system. I think that's
a bad example of privatization gone wrong, because we have
a great public system if you want to, and a
very good private system. So if I'm rich enough and
I'm not to send my kids to Scott's College, I
can if not, I send them to Wellington College. Now,

(02:22):
if I had a preference, I'd go Wellington College first, of.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
Course you would, because we have an excellent public education
system in New Zealand. But that's no thanks to the
ACT Party. What they are doing with charter schools is
experimenting with a model where public funding is going into
schools that operate outside the public system. So in some
ways they don't even practice what they preach because they're
operating a model where taxpayer funded, publicly funded money is

(02:51):
going into this experiment with privately effectively privately run or
operating outside the public system charter schools, So they don't
even have a kind of pure ideological commitment to it.
And that's what's so inconsistent about their policies in this area.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
Charter schools are a whole different thing, and I'm with
you on that, But I just want to get back
to the hospital thing because I kind of when I
sit back and think about it, and I don't have
insurance anymore? Are you sed to? But as you get older,
it gets more and more expensive and I can't now
afford to. But the idea of the government paying for
my private insurance I like, because the private system has
suited me.

Speaker 3 (03:26):
Well, well, it wouldn't be the government paying for it,
it would be you paying for it if you can
afford it. And that's the model that we see in America,
where you basically have to have private health insurance and
if you don't, you're not actually allowed inside the hospital.
If we recreated that in New Zealand, we would have

(03:46):
people left outside hospital doors, not getting the treatment they need.
And that's why you see in America people in wheelchairs
with broken legs, homeless on the street.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
But the government's already said hold on. Private model under
David Seymour's idea is that he's given you the money.
So if your insurance for your for you would be
five four hundred a year, he's given you that four
hundred a year so you can ensure yourself.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
Well, that's all very well, if you're healthy and that
you're the insurance company would take you on. But actually
what we have in a public system is a situation
where if you have cancer, or if something terrible happens
to your family or you have a bad accident, you
are treated you. You're not looked at your pre existing conditions.
They don't do a whole lot of work to understand

(04:34):
who you are and whether you're deserving or whether it
fits within the policy. Everybody is treated because it is
a public system that operates for a public good, and
some people get more out of that and some people
get less out of that, but that's just the way
it operates when a public service operates, and the good
of all of us for a public good, I'm.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
Sure that they would have to take if they did it,
they'd have to make it take allowances for those that
are not so well. But anyway, with's move on. Do
you actually reckon that the government actually is going to
consider widespread privatization?

Speaker 3 (05:03):
Well, I think it's very interesting to compare what Christopher
los has said, which is that he's open to a
conversation versus what John Key did back in twenty eleven
when he wanted to partially privatize our some power companies.
He took it to an election, He talks people through it,
he ran public meetings. Now I didn't agree with that,
but at least john Key understood you need a public

(05:25):
mandate through an election. Whereas Christopher Luxen is operating in
this casual way where he sees he's open to a conversation. Well,
that completely misunderstands the divisive, difficult history of privatization in
New Zealand, where governments are punished for it and it
has been deeply unpopular. So I'm concerned about the casual
response of Chris Luxen being open to a conversation.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
Hey, I can't have you on the show without asking
you have you been approached by the Labor Party to
stand for the mayoralty? Of warning?

Speaker 3 (05:55):
Do you know that you're the person that's asked me
that most Nick I will not be running for mayor
of Wellington. There is a lot to pose this government's
terrible agenda.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
I didn't ask you that I see have you been
approached by the Labor Party.

Speaker 3 (06:10):
I've already been on the record to say that there
have been some discussions with Labor about me running for
the mayor. I will not be running for the Wellington mayoralty.
I can rule it out very clearly here today because
there's so much to focus on in opposing this government's
destructive agenda.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
One more quick question Justin Lester.

Speaker 3 (06:30):
Justin Lester is a great man. He is a progressive mayor.
I think that I see it at the time actually
when he lost that he's got a political comeback in
him and I certainly would support Justin Lester for mayor.
I think he's a very experienced, diligent and committed Wellingtonian.
I think you'd be a great mayor.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
Fleur I always enjoy talking to you. We might sit
on different sides on different things, we sit on the
same sides on some things as well, so I always
enjoy having a chat. Thank you for your time. I
appreciate it greatly.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
Thanks. Thanks Flirt.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
Simon's there the Public Service Association National Secretary Acting Acting.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
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