February 25, 2025 • 9 mins
It's a fact that has dumbfounded some of Wellington's city councillors. Why does the heart of New Zealand's government, the Parliamentary precinct, have the same heritage status as a giant rusting oil tank on the other side of the city?
Derelict buildings with heritage status are something Wellingtonians have discussed for years, and now the Wellington City Council is supportive of the government changing the law.
To discuss the issue, NZ Herald's Wellington issues reporter Georgina Campbell joined Nick Mills for the Capital Letter.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said B taking the pulse of the city.
The Capital Letter on news Talk said B.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
It's that time of the week. Joining us for a
regular Capital Letter. Slaughters New Zealand Heralds Issues reporter Georgina Campbell,
Good morning, George.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
How are you.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
I'm good.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Had a good week so far?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Yeah, good week.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Wednesday's nearly over, so we're into Thursday. When you get
to Thursday, you feel like Friday's just around the corner,
and yeah, it is quite good.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Like Wednesday. Middle of the week, you're like, okay, we're
on the home street.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah, that's sort of dinner on Wednesday night. You think, yeah,
nearly that day. Get rid of Thursday or Friday. I
love Fridays always in my whole life love Fridays. I
don't know why always have because it's a big night
on hospital and it's a big night. So Fridays Fridays.
You cannot get me down on a Friday. George, tell me,
why does a rusting oil tank and Parliament have the
same hereted status. Now, when I've been here, I've been
(01:01):
watching this story unfold for a long time, and these
buildings and there's more than one. Drive me insane, pull
the bloody ugly things down.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Yeah, I agree with you, they really Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
I've written so much about our obsession with heritage and
it is really holding the city back. But Wellington City
Council has completed a submission for new legislation that has
been considered to make it easier for councils to delist
heritage buildings from their district plans. And it was it
(01:35):
was an amusing submission, So I'll just read some of
it to you. Of course you'll remember that the council
contested the heritage status of ten properties last year unsuccessfully,
and so the submission.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Can I can I just before you say that, can I? Was?
It was it Chris Bishop that had to have the
final say on some of them and didn't and didn't
sign off of them. Is am I correct with that?
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (01:57):
So he was sort of you know, hamstrung if you like,
by the current system. Okay, and so now we're getting
legislation which could change that. So the submission says these
contested listings included a rusting oil tank, the abandoned and
long derelict Gordon Wilson Flats and an ordinary suburban house
invisible from the street or without the agreement of their owners.
(02:21):
These buildings now have the same protections as buildings such
as Parliament House, but the costs and impositions on owners
that go with such a status, and basically, you know,
the Council is sort of saying in a nice way,
this is outrageous, Like why does this rusting oil storage
tank in Mirama have the same heritage protections as Parliament House,
(02:42):
which is beautiful and of course should be protected. You
know that oil tank is owned by companies owned by
Sir Peter Jackson. Yeah, like they they want to use
that site to you know, build more film infrastructure in Miramar,
which is important to the.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Future, employ more people that the employ more.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
People, and you know they're stuck with this huge oil
tank on it and they can't do anything about it
because it's you know, heritage and they can't demolish it.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
And it's always been bloody ugly. It was a cat
favorite one stage, wasn't it wasn't it?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yeah it was part of the garden center.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, it was bloody ugly. And the Gordon Wilson Flats
I mean, come on, give me a bulldozer, give me
a keyn o'd pull it down.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Yeah, this is all prime real estate, isn't it. That
could actually be used for something useful and progressive for
the city. The heritage evaluation for this rusting oil tank
says it has significant historic value, Its townscape values contribute
to an understanding of the history and development of the area,
and the tank provides technological information about standard design and construction.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
So just to give you the other side, Wow.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Give me a bucket. I want to be sick. I mean,
come on.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
So the good news is is that Chris Bishop has
you know, he has listened to Wellington City Council. He
said at the time, like he understood the council's concerns
about you know, how difficult it is to delist here buildings.
So there's new legislation on the way that's been proposed
at the moment which would a make it faster, to
(04:15):
make the process faster to make changes to heritage. And
also there's something called a National Direction that has been
worked on which gives counsels, you know, a bit more
guidance as to how to weigh up heritage with other
competing priorities, because at the moment, heritage means something is
of national significance if it gets that status in the
(04:37):
district plan. And think of it like a set of
scales weighing these competing priorities. If you put heritage on there, Boom,
It's lightly. It wins every time.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
And it shouldn't. And that's why, I mean, you wouldn't
have heard me talk about it, George, because you're not
in the studio. I listen to the show all the time.
But so, Michael Fowler is an old mayor of an architect.
There was a mayor of Wellington when I was very
very young. Yeah, he changed our city forever to this
day because he took bulldozers to everything. It was old
and shitty and and he didn't care. He said, we'll
(05:09):
build you and we'll build better. That's what we need
to be doing.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
Have you seen the documentary Hometown Boomtown. No, it's all
about Michael Fowler and the way that he just got
rid of all those buildings along Lampon Key and the
Golden Mile.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Highly recommend watching it.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
You know what, George, you would have loved so Michael Fowler.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yeah, I feel like I would have you would have
loved going to do something.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
You would have let me tell you his style, and
he had walked If he walked in here as a
sixty five or seventy year old man, you'd go, wow,
that's that's cool. He was one of those leaders. Yeah,
he was a cool man. So yeah, anyway, we digress.
I will watch that text me that long.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Well, I'll send you the lank all right.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Now, so we know that that christmaship's on our side
and we're going to get rid of these crappy old buildings.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Yeah, it really does seem like the legislation is moving
in a direction that it will make it easier for
counsels to deal with these buildings.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Right, Okay, let's talk about something that's pet hate. As
you well know you're nodding, the Council's in store for
some huge, big bills for social house blocks that have
been deemed earthquakes prone. I'll let you go because you
know my rent on this.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Yeah, so.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Everybody is probably familiar now with this announcement that six
social housing complexes, so that's fourteen blocks of more than
three hundred homes have been deemed earthquake prone and the
council needs to spend money to strengthen these so I
had to look into this and actually four of the
six complexes have been earthquake strengthened in the past fifteen years,
(06:42):
like pretty recently called Tuku Apartments in Keilbernie. They only
opened in twenty seventeen. So the council has spent tens
of millions of dollars earthquake strengthening buildings that now need
to be earthquake strengthened again again. Now this isn't necessarily
the Council's fault because it is operating in an environment
(07:03):
of you know, changing earthquake rules. Every time there's a
big earthquake like the christ Truthquades or the Coi Colder earthquake,
you know, we learn more about how buildings react to that,
and rightfully so engineering standards kind of change.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
But it is.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Just, oh, you know, so much money to have recently and.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
We haven't got the money, and yes, we don't have
the money to spend on them.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
Interestingly, the money that is required to strengthen these buildings
is already baked into the long term plan but as
part of the social housing upgrade, so it's when we're
not needing to find more money anywhere.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
But I did.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
I did sort of raise a question for me, and
that like, why are we doing this work twice? Like
I understand that they want to upgrade and earthquake strengthen
the social housing portfolio, but it's like kind of like
building I don't do it right.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Or a building that was built and you said twenty seventeen,
so it.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Was upgraded and strengthened and opened and to seventeen and yeah,
so then a few years later we've.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Going to go again, haveing to do it again.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Well, George, just in case there's one you listener listening
to the show this morning, I'm going to say it again.
Wellington City Council should not be in social housing at all.
It's a government responsibility and we have more per capita
than anywhere else in New Zealand, and I think it's
(08:33):
time that we actually did something about it. It's my rent.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
The interesting thing is with this too, is that it
harps back to a deal I think from two thousand
and seven with Helen Class's government.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
But apparently that deals over now, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
No.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
This strengthening that they're doing is all part of that deal,
so they still haven't fulfilled this deal, you know, which
is to upgrade all of the stock and be in
social housing for thirty years. But that's still going.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Up, so we've got another twenty years to wait, or
fifteen years to wait. Apparently we can get out of it.
Apparently we can. I've heard that, but I'll we'll talk
about that or fare some other time. But George, always
a pleasure. Thank you for coming on, and thank you
for informing our listeners, our listeners of what's going on,
because we have to know about things like that rusting
old oil tank there taking up space. And if Sir
(09:21):
Peter Jackson can do something, pull it bloody thing down
and build something and employ people and do some stuff.
Oh my god, it makes so much perfect sense. It's
almost insane. I've got a headache. I'm glad I'm near
the end of the show. I've got a headache thinking
about it. And those Gordon Wilson flats bulldoz are damned
things down. They wanted to do a great entrance. Get
rid of them. They want to do an entrance for
Victoria University and make it beautiful on the terrace. Get
(09:43):
rid of them. Sorry, tired, angry.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
For more, from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news talks There'd be Wellington from nine am week days,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said B taking the pulse of the city.
The Capital Letter on news Talk said B.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
It's that time of the week. Joining us for a
regular Capital Letter. Slaughters New Zealand Heralds Issues reporter Georgina Campbell,
Good morning, George.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
How are you.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
I'm good.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Had a good week so far?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Yeah, good week.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Wednesday's nearly over, so we're into Thursday. When you get
to Thursday, you feel like Friday's just around the corner,
and yeah, it is quite good.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Like Wednesday. Middle of the week, you're like, okay, we're
on the home street.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah, that's sort of dinner on Wednesday night. You think, yeah,
nearly that day. Get rid of Thursday or Friday. I
love Fridays always in my whole life love Fridays. I
don't know why always have because it's a big night
on hospital and it's a big night. So Fridays Fridays.
You cannot get me down on a Friday. George, tell me,
why does a rusting oil tank and Parliament have the
same hereted status. Now, when I've been here, I've been
(01:01):
watching this story unfold for a long time, and these
buildings and there's more than one. Drive me insane, pull
the bloody ugly things down.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Yeah, I agree with you, they really Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
I've written so much about our obsession with heritage and
it is really holding the city back. But Wellington City
Council has completed a submission for new legislation that has
been considered to make it easier for councils to delist
heritage buildings from their district plans. And it was it
(01:35):
was an amusing submission, So I'll just read some of
it to you. Of course you'll remember that the council
contested the heritage status of ten properties last year unsuccessfully,
and so the submission.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Can I can I just before you say that, can I? Was?
It was it Chris Bishop that had to have the
final say on some of them and didn't and didn't
sign off of them. Is am I correct with that?
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (01:57):
So he was sort of you know, hamstrung if you like,
by the current system. Okay, and so now we're getting
legislation which could change that. So the submission says these
contested listings included a rusting oil tank, the abandoned and
long derelict Gordon Wilson Flats and an ordinary suburban house
invisible from the street or without the agreement of their owners.
(02:21):
These buildings now have the same protections as buildings such
as Parliament House, but the costs and impositions on owners
that go with such a status, and basically, you know,
the Council is sort of saying in a nice way,
this is outrageous, Like why does this rusting oil storage
tank in Mirama have the same heritage protections as Parliament House,
(02:42):
which is beautiful and of course should be protected. You
know that oil tank is owned by companies owned by
Sir Peter Jackson. Yeah, like they they want to use
that site to you know, build more film infrastructure in Miramar,
which is important to the.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Future, employ more people that the employ more.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
People, and you know they're stuck with this huge oil
tank on it and they can't do anything about it
because it's you know, heritage and they can't demolish it.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
And it's always been bloody ugly. It was a cat
favorite one stage, wasn't it wasn't it?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yeah it was part of the garden center.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, it was bloody ugly. And the Gordon Wilson Flats
I mean, come on, give me a bulldozer, give me
a keyn o'd pull it down.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Yeah, this is all prime real estate, isn't it. That
could actually be used for something useful and progressive for
the city. The heritage evaluation for this rusting oil tank
says it has significant historic value, Its townscape values contribute
to an understanding of the history and development of the area,
and the tank provides technological information about standard design and construction.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
So just to give you the other side, Wow.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Give me a bucket. I want to be sick. I mean,
come on.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
So the good news is is that Chris Bishop has
you know, he has listened to Wellington City Council. He
said at the time, like he understood the council's concerns
about you know, how difficult it is to delist here buildings.
So there's new legislation on the way that's been proposed
at the moment which would a make it faster, to
(04:15):
make the process faster to make changes to heritage. And
also there's something called a National Direction that has been
worked on which gives counsels, you know, a bit more
guidance as to how to weigh up heritage with other
competing priorities, because at the moment, heritage means something is
of national significance if it gets that status in the
(04:37):
district plan. And think of it like a set of
scales weighing these competing priorities. If you put heritage on there, Boom,
It's lightly. It wins every time.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
And it shouldn't. And that's why, I mean, you wouldn't
have heard me talk about it, George, because you're not
in the studio. I listen to the show all the time.
But so, Michael Fowler is an old mayor of an architect.
There was a mayor of Wellington when I was very
very young. Yeah, he changed our city forever to this
day because he took bulldozers to everything. It was old
and shitty and and he didn't care. He said, we'll
(05:09):
build you and we'll build better. That's what we need
to be doing.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
Have you seen the documentary Hometown Boomtown. No, it's all
about Michael Fowler and the way that he just got
rid of all those buildings along Lampon Key and the
Golden Mile.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Highly recommend watching it.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
You know what, George, you would have loved so Michael Fowler.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yeah, I feel like I would have you would have
loved going to do something.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
You would have let me tell you his style, and
he had walked If he walked in here as a
sixty five or seventy year old man, you'd go, wow,
that's that's cool. He was one of those leaders. Yeah,
he was a cool man. So yeah, anyway, we digress.
I will watch that text me that long.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Well, I'll send you the lank all right.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Now, so we know that that christmaship's on our side
and we're going to get rid of these crappy old buildings.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Yeah, it really does seem like the legislation is moving
in a direction that it will make it easier for
counsels to deal with these buildings.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Right, Okay, let's talk about something that's pet hate. As
you well know you're nodding, the Council's in store for
some huge, big bills for social house blocks that have
been deemed earthquakes prone. I'll let you go because you
know my rent on this.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Yeah, so.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Everybody is probably familiar now with this announcement that six
social housing complexes, so that's fourteen blocks of more than
three hundred homes have been deemed earthquake prone and the
council needs to spend money to strengthen these so I
had to look into this and actually four of the
six complexes have been earthquake strengthened in the past fifteen years,
(06:42):
like pretty recently called Tuku Apartments in Keilbernie. They only
opened in twenty seventeen. So the council has spent tens
of millions of dollars earthquake strengthening buildings that now need
to be earthquake strengthened again again. Now this isn't necessarily
the Council's fault because it is operating in an environment
(07:03):
of you know, changing earthquake rules. Every time there's a
big earthquake like the christ Truthquades or the Coi Colder earthquake,
you know, we learn more about how buildings react to that,
and rightfully so engineering standards kind of change.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
But it is.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Just, oh, you know, so much money to have recently and.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
We haven't got the money, and yes, we don't have
the money to spend on them.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
Interestingly, the money that is required to strengthen these buildings
is already baked into the long term plan but as
part of the social housing upgrade, so it's when we're
not needing to find more money anywhere.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
But I did.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
I did sort of raise a question for me, and
that like, why are we doing this work twice? Like
I understand that they want to upgrade and earthquake strengthen
the social housing portfolio, but it's like kind of like
building I don't do it right.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Or a building that was built and you said twenty seventeen,
so it.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Was upgraded and strengthened and opened and to seventeen and yeah,
so then a few years later we've.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Going to go again, haveing to do it again.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Well, George, just in case there's one you listener listening
to the show this morning, I'm going to say it again.
Wellington City Council should not be in social housing at all.
It's a government responsibility and we have more per capita
than anywhere else in New Zealand, and I think it's
(08:33):
time that we actually did something about it. It's my rent.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
The interesting thing is with this too, is that it
harps back to a deal I think from two thousand
and seven with Helen Class's government.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
But apparently that deals over now, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
No.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
This strengthening that they're doing is all part of that deal,
so they still haven't fulfilled this deal, you know, which
is to upgrade all of the stock and be in
social housing for thirty years. But that's still going.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Up, so we've got another twenty years to wait, or
fifteen years to wait. Apparently we can get out of it.
Apparently we can. I've heard that, but I'll we'll talk
about that or fare some other time. But George, always
a pleasure. Thank you for coming on, and thank you
for informing our listeners, our listeners of what's going on,
because we have to know about things like that rusting
old oil tank there taking up space. And if Sir
(09:21):
Peter Jackson can do something, pull it bloody thing down
and build something and employ people and do some stuff.
Oh my god, it makes so much perfect sense. It's
almost insane. I've got a headache. I'm glad I'm near
the end of the show. I've got a headache thinking
about it. And those Gordon Wilson flats bulldoz are damned
things down. They wanted to do a great entrance. Get
rid of them. They want to do an entrance for
Victoria University and make it beautiful on the terrace. Get
(09:43):
rid of them. Sorry, tired, angry.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
For more, from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news talks There'd be Wellington from nine am week days,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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