March 2, 2025 • 33 mins
We're told a housing boom is on the way in the capital with a new district plan allowing for more higher-density homes closer to the city. Has this made it easier to develop in Wellington, and what will it mean for house prices?
Also, for the first time the Wellington City Council has responded to public concern over a cycleway project, voting to investigate reinstating carparks to Glenmore St near the Botanic Gardens. It's the fifth u-turn in a year, after the Reading Cinema deal, airport shares sale, Begonia House and Khandallah Pool.
Is this the council responding to residents' concerns, or does it demonstrate they don't properly consult before making decisions?
To answer those questions, as well as discussing the Golden Mile, Wellington Water and citizens arrests, Kaffe Eis owner Karl Tiefenbacher and property developer Mark Quinn joined Nick Mills for the Business Panel.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk. Said by Mondays mean business. It's the
business panel on Wellington Mornings with Quinovic Property Management, a
better rental experience for all. Visit Quinovic dot co dot inshead.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Let's get done, let's get down.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
You've had a million million night.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
For our business panel this week is Cape Ice owner
Carl Tickenbaker Tiffen Barker. Get it right, Nick iffen Barker.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
What a name?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Be a hard name for people to remember? They're ticking
the for mere box.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Won't it be? Well?
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Yeah, potentially, I suppose I won't forget it. It's not
like it's Josmith, is it?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
No?
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Exactly?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
So I mean that cat's out of the box. So
no decisions yet on your political.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Ambitions, No, not yet, nothing official, but when it does happen,
or if it if it happens, then it definitely will
happen on.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Here on this show.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Would be that, Well, you've already promised, so that would
be promise you that and I'm not going to break
any promises.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
That wouldn't be a great start to your bear all
carediency would it be?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Well?
Speaker 3 (01:14):
I said I'd go on Nick Bell's the show and
tell him live, and I've taken it down to the
paper and how because they said front page.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
That's not happening.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
That's happened to us before, believe it or not. We
were promised the exclusive and then someone offered the front page.
They dropped me for the front page. And property developer
Mark Quin good morning Marking.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Nick.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Now, for people that don't know of your work, that
live under a rock, you've done a lot of developments
and you're now the man behind all the family that's
been fat because we've got very bright young family members
around you, a family behind Mayfia, which is the Austin
Street development that we talked about on the show a
few weeks ago, which excited the hell out of me.
(01:58):
How's How's How's Mafia? How's life? And how's Mafia going
up to?
Speaker 5 (02:03):
Life is fantastic living learn so why can life not
be fantastic? Mafia's going well? It's settle soft launch on Friday,
eight and a half thousand hits to the website already,
so that's that's that's promising. It's stilling for resource consent.
There's a few hoops to jump through there. So we're
tracking down the track to get the thing spayed in
the ground by by Q late Q two, Q three
(02:24):
this year.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
This year you'll have the bulldozers up there.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
The border is up there. Wow, it's the plan.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Any objections, any problems, anything with councilor anyone making it
difficult to get this going.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
Oh, there's always everyone has has to have there are
their time to express their opinions, and we're totally fine
with that. So we've got a very good team behind
us advising us and it's going swelling.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Well.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Okay, well, that's a great segue into our first topic.
I want to start off by talking about housing. We're
told that a housing boom is on its way, new
district plans allowing for high, identisty density houses closest to
the city. Carl, what are your thoughts on this? Where
are we going to start seeing these new developments. Is
there any talk that it's going to make it easier?
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Yeah, I mean Mark's probably more an expert on this,
and then obviously what I am.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
That's why I came to you first.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Oh, perfect. I was speaking to a lot of developers
though in my understanding is that once you go over
three stories, the costs of the development rise exponentially. So
my understanding is it's very, very hard to build affordable
housing above a three story unit. So I was spoking
to several who have projects that they'd like to do
(03:32):
where they really want to do three stories, with the
council saying no, you've got to do six stories.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
So I believe, well, so they're actually making you go, yeah,
there are areas, so there's no you can't do one,
two or three. It's got to be some areas.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
So like the tip Top old Tip Top side, I
believe the developer there has got a plan, has put
it through to the council, wants to build three story units.
The council said, nope, we want six story units there,
and they're in the past because the finances don't work
when you start going above three stories. In my understanding, unless,
of course, in certain areas.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Mark, are you feeling now, I mean you're right in
the midst of it with Mayfair, So are you feeling
now that the whole narratives changed, So it's a lot
more easier to do business.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
It's certainly easy to do business. And see all the
counts are coming from on a sixth level. We need
to look at Europe and how we get a lot
of people into a small, small space. And the way
we're doing at the moment doesn't work. Single house on
private to land closer city. That's not getting people in
the city. So we need to go high. And it's
a tough people to swallow to get to six stories
from three, but it does also open the opportunities to
(04:33):
get more people on that one particularly side. I know
the site you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Where is that site?
Speaker 5 (04:37):
So I'm not a tiptop site next to Countdown or
will worse work? Call it now in Newtown Newtown?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (04:43):
I think though, when they're looking at the district plan changes,
the whole idea was to allow more affordable housing to
be built near Wellington, and I guess the question is
if it's more expensive to build above three stories and
becomes prohibitive, potentially the only way to do it is
by obviously making expensive housing. So I mean, I'm looking
thinking of your development obviously and just because obviously that's
(05:05):
the discussion, and I'm thinking that the apartment's going to
be worth more than two million bucks rather than less
than one hundred million.
Speaker 5 (05:11):
Well thankful Segway, because that's clearly right. It's a top
end apartment building, so it's luxury luggle of somewhere as well.
So every house in the pot is another house in
the pot, agreed. And that's that's critical.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
And the thing is that people forget about Mark and
I've just got to interrupt here and get them know
is that they're they're selling smaller places or bigger places
and making coming into your place. So there's another another
area for people to buy a freeze and took hour
somewhere else. Someone moving out and Dale or somewhere. They
want to move to our closest city, closer to the
blah blah. That that's going to fare up a house
somewhere else. So that's another house in the pot, no
(05:44):
matter where it is. Which Segways tough outur next development,
which is Tapestry on Vivin Street, which is we've just
got resource consent for it.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
It's just come through. That's for one hundred and third
two apartments.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
One hundred and thirty two apartments.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
That's ones and two to thirteen level building. It's got
a rooftop garden and barbe geas that type of thing.
And Paul gymnasium sauna, but this one because you've got
the scale right.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
It's all about scale.
Speaker 5 (06:09):
So three to six it is a very tough, tough call,
but three to thirteen is a lot better because once
you're on sight the cranes there unitized system where you go.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
I've always been told that once a crane comes into
a development, everything just goes nuts. Yeah, loss, is that right?
Speaker 5 (06:24):
Well, it just adds probably you know, five one thousand
bucks to the cost of the development.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
So I live in an apartment. I love apartment so
so third story and victoria'street makes absolute sense to me.
And I think, you know, if we can get more
people living in apartments said we want to live in apartments,
that's great. So I mean, I'm not certainly not trying
to diss your your project by any any means. I'm
just saying that if the council, because my understanding is
very very hard for contractors to get consents around one
(06:51):
story or a two story building. The expenses is quite
intense through the council, the time frames are atrocious. So
you know, we're wanting more and more affordable housing, which
certainly are building. Yeah, I love the idea but housing
and things like that in houses with the garden, which
a lot of people still want. I think we're still
making it difficult and expensive.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
For people to do. I think we need a long
term vision here.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
Okay, And it was short sighted and go we want
a nice little picket fence in the garden. We're kidding ourselves.
The closest city we want to get people in this city.
We need to go up look at Europe. Anybody yet
we love Paris and there were six six story buildings
absolutely everywhere. So we just need to be more intensification
in the city.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Yeah's new development. You're doing the thirteen story tapestry, so
get the name tapestry? Whereabouts exactly? Is that?
Speaker 5 (07:35):
It's next to Salmon House on Vivian Street, dead opposite
pre Fair.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Oh okay, there's a car parker. And when will the
Slades Spades be in the ground net.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
Well, it'll be launched and probably Q two this year
to the market. If we get enough pre sales it'll
go straight away, so it could be this year. There's
a crane airmark from it from CMP, the AU building company.
They're ready to go. The crane's ready, the cranes are ready.
For tapestry.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
So we're ready.
Speaker 5 (08:01):
We just need the market to say, yes, we'll buy
enough of those. Hit the grand button.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Thanks ready, our listeners, because that's what we're sitting there saying.
Make ask them the damn question. Is it getting easier
to do business with the current council with the new
rules or it makes no difference.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
It is getting easier.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
And one day when this current what get judge for
the what's happened during the last well you mean next election?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Well yeah, not not just not just.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
The last three years, but the last ten years, last
twelve years, right, so when they get judged the last
three years, it's judge and what they have done about
the housing and in years to come we'll look back
and go, actually, there wasn't a bad move to actually
to force developers to intensiflication. I think it'll be a
good move and a long term. Short term, we've got
to get her heads around living a lot more people
(08:48):
close together. I think Jeordie Rodgers summed up nicely. Not
like having the allegiance Geordie Rodgers to say he did say,
he did say we need to learn to share the city.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Right now. Another person that well in Tonian that I
have an utmost respect for. Chris Parkin is doing a
development on Wakefield Street and he has been saying, well,
part of the development he's been saying to me every
time I talk to him lately, is that we've got
to get people living in the city. Why is there
such a big thing about people living in the city.
(09:22):
Why can't we just use the city and go out
of the city to the suburbs and then come back
and use the city. Tell me why.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
I mean, I think there's obviously benefits of people being
able to live and work in enjoy life close to
where they live. And as I said, I live in an apartment.
Actually am very comfortable in my apartment. I don't really
I've been there thirteen years, you know, so I have
no incident in really moving back into a residential home.
But I think there's horses of courses and everyone has
a different opinion of how they want to live. I
think forcing people in departments is not the way to go.
(09:50):
But as Mark said, I think we are moving into
an environment where buildings in your large scale of building
in town by the way, I love the idea of it, mate,
It's exactly what we should be doing. And by going
high enough right in the middle of town, you're not
only creating really close to the city, but you're also
creating the to keep the pricing down.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
A little bit because of the volume, right volume.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
So yeah, so that's well, you know, if we're going
to do development of that size, I believe that's exactly
the right place to do it. Yeah, so it makes
sense to have it in town. But I mean, we
have to cater for the fact that not everyone likes
to do it. And you say, why can't we share the
way we live. You know, some people want to live
in town, they get to live in town. If people
want to live out of town, they've still got to
have the ability to get in town at the same time.
And I think that's where we're finding a bit of
discourse with the council.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Mark you're also being living in the city, not that
you've always lived in the city. I mean, why why
would you tell me to come and live in the city.
I live in a suburb and I drive into the city.
I use the city, love the city, but I like
to drive out and have in my backyard.
Speaker 5 (10:44):
Well, well you can have the both. We're not serving
an apartment in Mayfair. You can have the town built
in your back door step.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
So the city is love it's going to a lovely vibe
about it. There's some things something things close to it.
Speaker 5 (10:55):
I can walk to the I caught the dairy across
the road at Schape is not I mean there's city
is a happening, vibe, energy place, and I love that.
I feed off the energy of the people around me
and this bo that's what gets me go in the city.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
I'm quite impressed by it. I'm impressed by it. I
might have to spend a weekend in town and stay
in town. The Business panel this morning has Cafe Ice
owner Carl Teffan Barker and property developer Mark Quinn. For
the first time, the council has responded to public concern
over a cycleway project, voting to investigate reinstating the car
parks the Glenmore Street near the Botanical Garden. We on
(11:29):
this show counted it was the fifth u turn in
the year. There was the reading, cinema deal, airport share sales,
Bagondia House, Kendala Poul and now this Mark. Are you
concerned slightly concerned that the council's responding to residents concerns
or does it demonstrate they're not probably properly consulting before
(11:52):
they make the decisions in the first place.
Speaker 5 (11:54):
It's probably a combination of all those things. I mean,
they're getting information from their officers, they elected officers and
it's quaky year, from the offices within the department, so
they were taking information. They've put an agenda. I mean,
they were voted in democratic world. They were voted in.
They've got an agenda, and they're carrying out their agenda,
whether you.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Like or lot. That's democracy.
Speaker 5 (12:14):
So other listening to the to the public, they clearly
are it's election year and some things are being reversed
that clearly aren't stacking up.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
And you reckon as simple as that. It's not that
they're not competent.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
You don't.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
You still have confidence, you're doing multimillion dollar deals. You
still have confidence dis counsel can can get us through
this hump.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
I don't think it's in competence.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
I think it's just an agenda that they want to
push through in there in their three years and it's.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Coming to an end.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
So now they're realizing that you get a bit more
public back on side, and now's the time to strike, right.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Karl, are you happy with this? What other projects do
do you think the council need to reconsider? I mean,
you know, if they're reconsidering this, don't mention the gold markers.
We'll talk about that later.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
I think I think realistically this is great that although
the point is they're only just reconsidering it at the moment.
I mean, we need them to actually make that change.
Did they consult forehand? Not really not if you call
consultation actually having a conversation whereby you listen to the
other person. I mean, everyone knew that what would happen,
what has happened would happen. You know, the car cars
(13:17):
taking the cars away from there was an unneeded thing
right from the beginning. You could have put in the
time framed, you know, the freeway. You know that at
that time, so people start. I mean that would make
logical sense. So I mean, if you look at the
things that they have reversed on, I mean, I heard
you the other day talking about them flip flopping and
all these sort of things, changing your mind is not
necessarily a bad thing. I mean, the reading deal was
(13:38):
a bad deal. Selling the airport shares was a bad idea.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
If you look at the whyless start to start with
it is my question?
Speaker 4 (13:46):
Well, yeah, that's exactly the point.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Are they doing the.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Research and studying and sorting it out before they had
to flip flop, I mean flip flops.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
I would suggest there's a lot of really poor decisions
being made in this current council and those five were
just poor decisions to start with the candalar pool. You
could argue the numbers that they put out having for
costing to repair the pooll. You know, you may have
to consider that one as a a yeah, maybe maybe not.
But even said that, a lot of the stuff that
they're doing and being priced up and numbers that just
(14:13):
don't sound realistic, and I think we need to look
at that as well.
Speaker 5 (14:16):
Mark Bagni House is really just a bit of nuts up,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Really?
Speaker 4 (14:21):
There's nothing wrong with the place shut some double million
dollars to fix it.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
It is just ridiculous.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
That's just a report that someone's commissioned to back up
the story, to get rid of it, get to get
off your books, and they don't to maintain it into
the future.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
That's just absolutely that's were you four for keeping it off?
For keeping it.
Speaker 5 (14:36):
Absolutely, yeah, just just double glaze or whatever you need
to do.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
I mean what gets to me, and we will talk
about it shortly because well waters reports come out and
it's stamming, to say the least, it's stamming. And we'll
do more of it as we go on in the show.
But surely they came to you and said, as a
developer and as an expelder and Mark, sort this out
come and give me a price. I mean you would
be able to go up there, look at it, take
(15:01):
a couple of your key men up there or woman
up there with you and say, oh, that's leaking there.
I can fix that. I can fix the cyon fix.
It's not for twenty years, but it'll do for another
five years.
Speaker 5 (15:10):
Really agree, that's what needs to be just some just
some local common see boot boots on the ground. Get
a build up there, you know, someone like us. We've
got for nothing, that's what you think. It's been a
few hours and wander around. It doesn't need to have
what thirty million dollars it's spent on it. It's a
whole new building.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Can we change the narrative, Karl on this whole thinking
the way we're thinking of, you know, Wellington water a
pipe costs three thousand dollars for me and you to
do and the council and christ Church to do, but
in Wellington it's nine thousand dollars.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Well it's a classic. My wife always says, if you
go to Floris and you ask for a bunch of
flowers and they say that's thirty dollars. A second you
mentioned it's wet for a wedding, it's three hundred dollars.
So I think, you know, we've if you look at
things like even the fencing around the waterfront, you know.
I mean, I've got a mate who does fencing for
the council and he's looked at the plans. He says
it's about two k and I like to make money
at one thousand bucks a meter. That's two million dollars.
(16:02):
The council are telling us it's cost going to cost
somewhere between nine and thirty two million, which is a
ridict difference between the low in the high side anyway.
So I mean, I think the numbers that have thrown
out there are really bad. And I think if flying
to order reporters showing us anything, it's that the council
need to be ordered to see where we're getting whether
we're getting bad for money, because I mean the reality
is it's almost certain we're not. As Mark pointed out,
(16:24):
get a couple of decent local builders up to the
begin in your house and look at it and find
out actually how much it costs. So don't go to
the public and say we want to pull down begoon
your house because it's going to cost X amount of
million when that's just a false number.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Okay, Mark, If there's anything else that you say in
your business dealings that you think, why has the council
done this? Couldn't they have done it this way? Is
the only other projects that they need to really look
at and actually say, na, this is wrong.
Speaker 5 (16:49):
Actually just a parking on n More Street that was
just went up to the Lantern Festival a few weeks ago,
got up there, drive around for twenty five minutes's got
frustrated to hell, couldn't find a park.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Went home. I stayed.
Speaker 5 (17:02):
I stayed by how does person get on from hour?
Only person come from poor the park and they got
to get they getting Nana up to the land the festival,
they will go home.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
I went I part yeah. Lines. In the end, I
give up. I'm just parking here.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
And getting one hundred.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
The time I go back to the cow there are
six cars parked behind me.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
So did you cop a ticket?
Speaker 5 (17:20):
No ticket, fortunately, but I just give up and I
always have to park somewhere. Surely they could have missed
some negotiation because the potamial guards not used for the
whole year round, just during summer break. Summer time, maybe
they could have taken the bike lane and put it
back into a car park just for the Lantern festival,
taken those white.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
I don't think that's enough. I mean, realistically, every day
people are visiting the botanical garden and want to be
able to wander around it. I mean, I hear what
you're saying events, and the problem is what we're saying
is a little bit would be better than what we've got,
but the reality is what we should have as the
best result possible.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yes, now, this news has only just come out, so
I don't expect you to have a lot of information
in front of you, but I mean it's a damning
report on well into water. We know that one into
water is such a majority of what we spend our
rates money on and we know there's a lot of
people doing it tough because the rate price is going up.
But the bottom line is that we're getting charged, you know,
(18:17):
three times what people are. And one of the cities
that were quoted, christ Church Hamilton wrote to Ruin Fonganu,
I mean, Carl Tiffan Barker, when you first heard this,
which would only be half an hour ago, what did
you think?
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Not overly surprised, to be honest, Nick, you think what
three times the price? You know what when you look
at how much we spend on so many different things,
I think, you know, I think we're getting ripped off
on a whole lot of things in I think governments,
in local governments tend to do that. And if you're
not auditing the books properly, if you're not monitoring things,
if you're not holding people accountable, you know, inefficiency se
has happened. You know, we're spending forty one million dollars
(18:54):
from remember, moving into new offices, and that involves us
doing the earthquakeness strengthening on the building, I believe. So
you know, if we're making those sort of decisions in procruitment,
procruitment decisions, then yeah, this doesn't shock me.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Unfortunately, insadly, Mark Quin, you are responsible for multimillion dollar developments,
so you know when someone's charging you too much. It's
interesting to see that. Warington City Council Hall being McNulty said,
said that that the region had been portrayed by Warrington
Wellington Water and said it was bullshit to suggest contractors
and were not aware that they were overcharging. Now contractors
(19:33):
had to how to figure out how they were going
to pay back to what they had creamed off the
rate bars, he said, I mean this is pretty serious stuff.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Is this is serious and totally disappointing. This is theft.
You know, heads need to roll and maybe.
Speaker 5 (19:45):
It's all totally well known within Warrington Water. I mean
City council last year we're pushing back on Wrington Water
and I think I thought it was just being a
bit pedantic, but maybe they're right after all, knowing what's
happening in there. This is theft there is, guys, and
they need to I mean, because we're paying for it,
I'm going to I'm being putting the extra costs onto
an apartment and someone to be paying for the apartment.
So it's downstream effect is that someone's gonna pay, someone's
(20:08):
gonna pay the ferrem in one day.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Do you think it's time? And I'll come to you
first on this mark. I will ask you, Carlos, is
it time that we absolutely cleaned up well into water,
like closed it down, start again. I mean we've got
a new you know, three waters done better or whatever
coming anyway, is this the time that we actually really
make put the stake in the ground and say, look,
this is this is this organization we've put up with.
(20:31):
It was so so long, with all the problems. Is
it time now we clear It's the time.
Speaker 5 (20:35):
I'm not sure what the process is, but maybe the
government could step in and put a commissioner in there
or something to try and try and you know, got
to handle them. I don't think to sacking people's, cutting
people's heads off for the sake of it, for their
own glory is going to solve the problem. Antonya walked
at the door last year. She was young, made a
few mistakes, but that skill. Don't just don't just chop
(20:57):
the heads off for the sake of it. Get to
the bottom of it. There must be a process and
procurement that's gone wrong. And if there's theft in there.
I've done the government work before. If there's left in
there or something it's been dishonest in there, that's got
to be exposed and that money's got to come back.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Calf Teffan Barker, Tanya has school. I actually thought she
was doing a good job. I mean, I kind of
she sold me, you know, I felt that she was
making the right comments and getting the right things done.
She had me convinced, and then she was gone. And
maybe this report and we want once again, we haven't
got into it deep enough yet. It's only been out
(21:31):
for forty minutes, so this report will actually involve some
of the time she was there. What did you think?
Speaker 4 (21:37):
I think the reality is we just need to start
having some adults in the room, you know, in using
common sense. The reality is, as I said, I'm not
surprised that there was these overspins because we're not actually
monitoring it. We should be judging ourselves constantly against other
other counsels in what they get for their money. You know,
we should be speaking to people and saying, well, how
much does it cost to do a meter's pipe, how
much does it cost to do a meter of cycleway?
(22:00):
How much does it cost to do a meter of
this so that we understand what other people are getting
and making sure that we're getting value for money. If
we're at as surely both side would be doings. Surely
I mean obviously not. I mean, yes, Nick, that's exactly right.
But the reality is you look at the starter this
report and it says we're not. And that's the unbelievable
thing is that for some reason we've taken this approach that,
(22:22):
you know, whatever money comes into council, whatever money comes
into way and to order it is free money and
it just comes out of the sky rather than actually
holding people to account, and of course it doesn't. It
comes directly from people who work hard to pay rates
that are now excessively high.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
And Mark, you know better than most that if you
were going to put a new lift in one of
your apartment blocks, you'd ring three other developers that have
put the same lifts and got a price for it
and worked out what they're going to part that when.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
You it's a process, what was a procurement process? Does
someone check it off or is it just like sweetheart
deals and mate rates?
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Well, this is what I'm worried about that that we're
seeing here too.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
But I didn't think that was the case because if
you look at the big pipe and down towern X
Street that was put in by Ruins and now on
Wayfroeld Street we've got ramsbottom there. So we haven't got
one contractor tying up the whole city. So that's a
good thing. You've got two contractors vying for the same contract, hopefully.
I don't know what's happening there is it? You to
this one, you to this one? There's regal legislation around and.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
What's to say that that that that hasn't happened. What's
to say that we're saying, actually, you know, Wellington's a
bit tougher because earthquake strength, and we've been a double
or triple charge for this.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Well, that's what we're doing.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
That's what they're doing. Oh scary. Let's talk Golden Mile.
Work on the first intersection part of the Golden Mile
plan will actually begin next month. I thought it was
this month. I'd say April fours, that's right, it's first
of April, that's right, it is, uh cal Tiffan Barker.
You've got a business on Courtney Place, You've got businesses
all over the place, but you have got a business
(23:53):
in Courtney Place. Is this project? You know, I've got
a little bit of a different opinion on it because
I spoke to a very well known town planner the
other day and she's convinced me a little bit differently.
Is this project a good thing?
Speaker 4 (24:05):
Absolutely not. It's one hundred and forteen million dollars that
we can't afford. That does not solve the problems that
we have in the area, which is cleanliness and safety.
Nothing in this plan fixes those two components. When you
think about one hundred and fourteen million dollars, you know,
if someone li isn't in Tawa, oh, just do it.
I'm sick and tired of hearing about the Golden Mile.
(24:25):
You know, if you live in Kraory, you think these
things one hundred and fourteen million dollars. If we borrow
half of that, that's thirty five dollars in interest payments
from every single household in Wellington for the rest of
your life. So if you're sitting in tower and thinking
it's not going to feed me next year, it's thirty
five bucks on the interest payments on the line. You know,
the reality is it's expensive businesses will not survive and
the street will be worse than it is now. We'll
(24:47):
have more places for people to lie around and hang
around because we're not fixing those those core issues, which
are the safety, the homelessness, and the cleanliness.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Mark Quinn. I walked my wife. She said, that's going
and get a sandwich from basically one end where the
Embassy Theater is. That's where we're apart, down to les
Mill's gym to get a sandwich at six and sevens
around Courtney Place.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Now.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
She hadn't been walked down there for a long time.
She said, is there any other way we can walk back?
I just don't want to see that, She said, it's ugly.
She said she was. She said, it's ugly. Can we
go around behind the church and come back the other
corner so I don't have to have to walk there
down Courtney Place. So something has to be done with
Courtney Place. Something does have to be one with Courtneys.
I agree with Carl mostly, but the thing is.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Underwhood.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
It's underway, so there's not much we can do about it.
We can look look to the future. We've already got
His first stage is now been signed off. I believe
in they're starting shortly. Okay, I'm not sure that the
dollars on that. Do you even know what the dollars are?
Speaker 3 (25:48):
No, we don't know it.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
No one knows. No one knows. That's question.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
You're right there as far as one hundred and forty
million goes. We cannot afford the whole thing, No to
ways about it. But we're underway on this first stage.
I think we just you do.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
This and you're saying, I'm trying to get those where
our listeners can get clarity because you live in the area,
you're developing in the area, so it's very important to
you do the intersection only, or do the whole Corny place.
Speaker 5 (26:09):
Do the Cony place, do whatever it's been signed up for. Well,
that's because that'll that'll know. Not they haven't signed up
for the whole thing, have they. No, No, it's just
the first stage, just the first age. Now we've signed
up for that. That will take you to the next
selection and then see what happens after that.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
So by first age you mean the intersection.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Right through to town Chu Street.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
That's a three year project.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, it's not that.
Speaker 5 (26:33):
It's going to be painful for business in the absolutely painful.
But the thing is at some point that the paving
was put down there is there at the moment, at
some point it was put there down there, maybe ten
to fifteen years ago, and there's inconvenience then.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
For the businesses.
Speaker 5 (26:47):
But you need to get to look after the business
some way. And maybe it's you've got your encroachment licenses,
will avoid those for ten years. You give us the
rightsless area for ten years or twenty years. Do something
for the business. I know they can't push too much
and give you some give you some money because it say,
it's a dangerous precedent news on whine, So they'll just
give you some sweetness to get along the way.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
That's that we're underway. They're going to push here, but
you like it or not. I think trying.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
I think what's going to happen Mark is that the
next election we will change the council and if we do,
we will have to buy out the contracts and just
stop it. We need, you know, replacing the I mean
what Mark's saying and what I'm starting to turn a
little tiny but on is.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Something needs to be done. Of course it does. So
if we actually if we've got a place, we spent
all this money, shouldn't we just try and work the
best way of getting it done.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
It's a poor design though. I mean, the thing is,
if you look at the designers a poor design. Putting
cycle ways through an entertainment zone is just ridiculous. Nowhere
in the world would you put a cycle way through
the middle of an entertainment zone. Nowhere find a cycle
way through the middle of of an entertainment zone.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Buses to buses make a strict ask me.
Speaker 5 (27:59):
But yeah, I mean, why would you not have buses
going through the buses there? We had a death last week,
poor German lady. I mean that's that's the will be
more of those when you get someone of the few
jugs on board, they'll be walking out in front of
these quiet buses now and get run over. They should
they should have gone to Wakefield Street they haven't. Then
there'll be a true entertainment area, wouldn't it. Yes, there's
no buses, there are true what's it going to be?
(28:21):
It's a half way house, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
But the problem I've got, The problem I've got with
no buses, no transport going down the middle, and you
think get there and how many people are going to
sleep on the side of the street.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
Oh well, as I said, you know, they're the issues
that to play safety, homelessness, in cleanliness. None of the
changes that we do changed this, not one where they're
meant to of course they are. They're meant to make
it a better place to be for people to enjoy.
It's not still dirty, it's not a bit.
Speaker 5 (28:49):
It's a housing issue, right, So people sleeping out under
the stars, that type of thing that that's that's an
issue that's nothing to do with the pavement under them.
That's a big social issue going on there that we
need to address as well.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Yes, and we do one hundred percent right very quickly,
because I really want to talk to ask you where
you're going to take someone special? But citizens arrest, and
we've had usual legislations get about to come out. That
means that you will no longer have to wait till
six o'clock at night, until six o'clock, nine o'clock at night,
till six in the morning to perform get my mouth going,
(29:24):
a citizen's arrest, and it won't have to be a
thousand dollars. What did you first think when you saw
this Mark, I.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
Think, I agree that citizens arrest for security guards and
bounces that type of thing, because at the moment they
can't touch they can't touch anybody. They can just walk
out the supermarket. They're trolley full of groceries. So they
definitely get the power for.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Arrest.
Speaker 5 (29:43):
But not the public, not me and you, Not me
and you, because we've seen it in loc someone years
ago got stabbed. Someone stepped into an argument and got
stabbed and killed.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
So no, definitely not Carl very quickly because I want
to get.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
Into and I actually agree with Mark on that one.
I think for security guards it's one hundred per cent required.
I mean, I think, and I assume that's why the
legislation is looking at being changed. So if they can
define it as that, that's fantastic, because someone walking out
of a supermarket with a trolley fullish shopping that can't
be stopped is creating a really bad precedent and it's
happening over and over again.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Right right back to the part of the show that
I really like. Right, So, someone's arrived into Wellington eleven o'clock.
They've had a bit of a bumpy flight, because no
such thing as a smooth flight into Wellington.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
As we all know, you.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Picked them up at the airport, that very very special
auntie mother someone you really really want to show off
and you just want to be proud of Wellington and
you want to actually take them somewhere very special. Mark,
Come on, tell us what you're going to do with
your very special guest.
Speaker 5 (30:37):
Okay, think look helling if a got because I want
to do a twenty four hour period if you can, please,
oh if.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
You can speed it up.
Speaker 5 (30:42):
Okay, So first off, you've got the plane at seven
o'clock in the morning, plenty fresh year in your face.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Fantastic.
Speaker 5 (30:47):
Get him into Lowell Bay. There's plenty of spots there
for a coffee. Get in the car straight out to Eastbourne,
out to burdens Gate and hire an e bike and
then get down to the pincre A lighthouse, the one
on the waterfront, and.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Then take the track up to the top.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
And from up there it's just a gorgeous dimension looking
back ato Warrington. Wow, fantastic. Everyone should go there. I've
never done it, but will you need to do? It's fantastic,
easy to you by easy shoot back into town. You
can lunch on the way, you've got the pavilion, Day's
Bay or Patoni. I'd get a lot of stays because
I love love all these days and rita bay there,
walk around the walk around the waterfront, as everyone has to,
(31:22):
of course, and then I'd do something but different here.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
I'd take them.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
To Tory, even retreat on tour Rest Street.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Tory.
Speaker 5 (31:29):
This place has got the biggest finished sauna in New Zealand.
Well just a little known fact. It's been there thirty
eight years, this place and with a with a five
degree plunge pat which is super cool in all respects.
So good in there, really good, good for you, good
for your body. Get him out of there. That time,
I'd be close to dinner time. We'd be off to
one of my favorite restaurants. I've got four here, Aparchy, Dragonfly,
(31:50):
Hummingbirds and Chow. Then after dinner, I'll then get a
scooter and then go to Mount Vack, up the road
to Mount Vack, to see Waynington at nighttime.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Well, you've had enough time, now you've give Actually, each
and every business is operating your bulley that I think, Carl,
what are you doing?
Speaker 4 (32:07):
You've got Mark has got a much more exciting one
than me. I'm just going to wander them around the
waterfront and in the inner city. I mean, we've got
the most walkable city in the world. It's absolutely stunning,
and I think that, you know, I've just had some
people over from from Asia basically visiting from one of
my supplies, and that's exactly what we did. We wandered
around and they were just blown away how beautiful the
city is. So I think i'd wandered them around the waterfront.
Nice glass of wine, maybe around ockside of Saint John's
(32:29):
if the sun was out, or otherwise. We can go
to your place, humming Bird and get one of your
rum runners. I think, really really nice, by the way,
and I know you don't drink. And then yeah, Patch
is about to reopen on Tory Street, just cross from
the road from where we are now, and Lee does
amazing food, so it's there and wants impoon for me.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Great, there you go. Thank you both for coming. And
that didn't that go quickly? Mark, you're so quiver, I said,
don't worry. It'll be over and done with before you
know what that is. Cafe Ice owner Carl Tiffan Barker
still hasn't announced whether he's going to run for me,
but he will and on the show I'll just remind
him again. And property develop a mark one who's obviously
(33:06):
got this amazing, amazing setup about to be start hopefully
May fare, which I'm looking forward to.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk. Said by Mondays mean business. It's the
business panel on Wellington Mornings with Quinovic Property Management, a
better rental experience for all. Visit Quinovic dot co dot inshead.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Let's get done, let's get down.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
You've had a million million night.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
For our business panel this week is Cape Ice owner
Carl Tickenbaker Tiffen Barker. Get it right, Nick iffen Barker.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
What a name?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Be a hard name for people to remember? They're ticking
the for mere box.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Won't it be? Well?
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Yeah, potentially, I suppose I won't forget it. It's not
like it's Josmith, is it?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
No?
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Exactly?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
So I mean that cat's out of the box. So
no decisions yet on your political.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Ambitions, No, not yet, nothing official, but when it does happen,
or if it if it happens, then it definitely will
happen on.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Here on this show.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Would be that, Well, you've already promised, so that would
be promise you that and I'm not going to break
any promises.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
That wouldn't be a great start to your bear all
carediency would it be?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Well?
Speaker 3 (01:14):
I said I'd go on Nick Bell's the show and
tell him live, and I've taken it down to the
paper and how because they said front page.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
That's not happening.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
That's happened to us before, believe it or not. We
were promised the exclusive and then someone offered the front page.
They dropped me for the front page. And property developer
Mark Quin good morning Marking.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Nick.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Now, for people that don't know of your work, that
live under a rock, you've done a lot of developments
and you're now the man behind all the family that's
been fat because we've got very bright young family members
around you, a family behind Mayfia, which is the Austin
Street development that we talked about on the show a
few weeks ago, which excited the hell out of me.
(01:58):
How's How's How's Mafia? How's life? And how's Mafia going
up to?
Speaker 5 (02:03):
Life is fantastic living learn so why can life not
be fantastic? Mafia's going well? It's settle soft launch on Friday,
eight and a half thousand hits to the website already,
so that's that's that's promising. It's stilling for resource consent.
There's a few hoops to jump through there. So we're
tracking down the track to get the thing spayed in
the ground by by Q late Q two, Q three
(02:24):
this year.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
This year you'll have the bulldozers up there.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
The border is up there. Wow, it's the plan.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Any objections, any problems, anything with councilor anyone making it
difficult to get this going.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
Oh, there's always everyone has has to have there are
their time to express their opinions, and we're totally fine
with that. So we've got a very good team behind
us advising us and it's going swelling.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Well.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Okay, well, that's a great segue into our first topic.
I want to start off by talking about housing. We're
told that a housing boom is on its way, new
district plans allowing for high, identisty density houses closest to
the city. Carl, what are your thoughts on this? Where
are we going to start seeing these new developments. Is
there any talk that it's going to make it easier?
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Yeah, I mean Mark's probably more an expert on this,
and then obviously what I am.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
That's why I came to you first.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Oh, perfect. I was speaking to a lot of developers
though in my understanding is that once you go over
three stories, the costs of the development rise exponentially. So
my understanding is it's very, very hard to build affordable
housing above a three story unit. So I was spoking
to several who have projects that they'd like to do
(03:32):
where they really want to do three stories, with the
council saying no, you've got to do six stories.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
So I believe, well, so they're actually making you go, yeah,
there are areas, so there's no you can't do one,
two or three. It's got to be some areas.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
So like the tip Top old Tip Top side, I
believe the developer there has got a plan, has put
it through to the council, wants to build three story units.
The council said, nope, we want six story units there,
and they're in the past because the finances don't work
when you start going above three stories. In my understanding, unless,
of course, in certain areas.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Mark, are you feeling now, I mean you're right in
the midst of it with Mayfair, So are you feeling
now that the whole narratives changed, So it's a lot
more easier to do business.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
It's certainly easy to do business. And see all the
counts are coming from on a sixth level. We need
to look at Europe and how we get a lot
of people into a small, small space. And the way
we're doing at the moment doesn't work. Single house on
private to land closer city. That's not getting people in
the city. So we need to go high. And it's
a tough people to swallow to get to six stories
from three, but it does also open the opportunities to
(04:33):
get more people on that one particularly side. I know
the site you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Where is that site?
Speaker 5 (04:37):
So I'm not a tiptop site next to Countdown or
will worse work? Call it now in Newtown Newtown?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (04:43):
I think though, when they're looking at the district plan changes,
the whole idea was to allow more affordable housing to
be built near Wellington, and I guess the question is
if it's more expensive to build above three stories and
becomes prohibitive, potentially the only way to do it is
by obviously making expensive housing. So I mean, I'm looking
thinking of your development obviously and just because obviously that's
(05:05):
the discussion, and I'm thinking that the apartment's going to
be worth more than two million bucks rather than less
than one hundred million.
Speaker 5 (05:11):
Well thankful Segway, because that's clearly right. It's a top
end apartment building, so it's luxury luggle of somewhere as well.
So every house in the pot is another house in
the pot, agreed. And that's that's critical.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
And the thing is that people forget about Mark and
I've just got to interrupt here and get them know
is that they're they're selling smaller places or bigger places
and making coming into your place. So there's another another
area for people to buy a freeze and took hour
somewhere else. Someone moving out and Dale or somewhere. They
want to move to our closest city, closer to the
blah blah. That that's going to fare up a house
somewhere else. So that's another house in the pot, no
(05:44):
matter where it is. Which Segways tough outur next development,
which is Tapestry on Vivin Street, which is we've just
got resource consent for it.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
It's just come through. That's for one hundred and third
two apartments.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
One hundred and thirty two apartments.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
That's ones and two to thirteen level building. It's got
a rooftop garden and barbe geas that type of thing.
And Paul gymnasium sauna, but this one because you've got
the scale right.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
It's all about scale.
Speaker 5 (06:09):
So three to six it is a very tough, tough call,
but three to thirteen is a lot better because once
you're on sight the cranes there unitized system where you go.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
I've always been told that once a crane comes into
a development, everything just goes nuts. Yeah, loss, is that right?
Speaker 5 (06:24):
Well, it just adds probably you know, five one thousand
bucks to the cost of the development.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
So I live in an apartment. I love apartment so
so third story and victoria'street makes absolute sense to me.
And I think, you know, if we can get more
people living in apartments said we want to live in apartments,
that's great. So I mean, I'm not certainly not trying
to diss your your project by any any means. I'm
just saying that if the council, because my understanding is
very very hard for contractors to get consents around one
(06:51):
story or a two story building. The expenses is quite
intense through the council, the time frames are atrocious. So
you know, we're wanting more and more affordable housing, which
certainly are building. Yeah, I love the idea but housing
and things like that in houses with the garden, which
a lot of people still want. I think we're still
making it difficult and expensive.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
For people to do. I think we need a long
term vision here.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
Okay, And it was short sighted and go we want
a nice little picket fence in the garden. We're kidding ourselves.
The closest city we want to get people in this city.
We need to go up look at Europe. Anybody yet
we love Paris and there were six six story buildings
absolutely everywhere. So we just need to be more intensification
in the city.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Yeah's new development. You're doing the thirteen story tapestry, so
get the name tapestry? Whereabouts exactly? Is that?
Speaker 5 (07:35):
It's next to Salmon House on Vivian Street, dead opposite
pre Fair.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Oh okay, there's a car parker. And when will the
Slades Spades be in the ground net.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
Well, it'll be launched and probably Q two this year
to the market. If we get enough pre sales it'll
go straight away, so it could be this year. There's
a crane airmark from it from CMP, the AU building company.
They're ready to go. The crane's ready, the cranes are ready.
For tapestry.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
So we're ready.
Speaker 5 (08:01):
We just need the market to say, yes, we'll buy
enough of those. Hit the grand button.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Thanks ready, our listeners, because that's what we're sitting there saying.
Make ask them the damn question. Is it getting easier
to do business with the current council with the new
rules or it makes no difference.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
It is getting easier.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
And one day when this current what get judge for
the what's happened during the last well you mean next election?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Well yeah, not not just not just.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
The last three years, but the last ten years, last
twelve years, right, so when they get judged the last
three years, it's judge and what they have done about
the housing and in years to come we'll look back
and go, actually, there wasn't a bad move to actually
to force developers to intensiflication. I think it'll be a
good move and a long term. Short term, we've got
to get her heads around living a lot more people
(08:48):
close together. I think Jeordie Rodgers summed up nicely. Not
like having the allegiance Geordie Rodgers to say he did say,
he did say we need to learn to share the city.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Right now. Another person that well in Tonian that I
have an utmost respect for. Chris Parkin is doing a
development on Wakefield Street and he has been saying, well,
part of the development he's been saying to me every
time I talk to him lately, is that we've got
to get people living in the city. Why is there
such a big thing about people living in the city.
(09:22):
Why can't we just use the city and go out
of the city to the suburbs and then come back
and use the city. Tell me why.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
I mean, I think there's obviously benefits of people being
able to live and work in enjoy life close to
where they live. And as I said, I live in an apartment.
Actually am very comfortable in my apartment. I don't really
I've been there thirteen years, you know, so I have
no incident in really moving back into a residential home.
But I think there's horses of courses and everyone has
a different opinion of how they want to live. I
think forcing people in departments is not the way to go.
(09:50):
But as Mark said, I think we are moving into
an environment where buildings in your large scale of building
in town by the way, I love the idea of it, mate,
It's exactly what we should be doing. And by going
high enough right in the middle of town, you're not
only creating really close to the city, but you're also
creating the to keep the pricing down.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
A little bit because of the volume, right volume.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
So yeah, so that's well, you know, if we're going
to do development of that size, I believe that's exactly
the right place to do it. Yeah, so it makes
sense to have it in town. But I mean, we
have to cater for the fact that not everyone likes
to do it. And you say, why can't we share the
way we live. You know, some people want to live
in town, they get to live in town. If people
want to live out of town, they've still got to
have the ability to get in town at the same time.
And I think that's where we're finding a bit of
discourse with the council.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Mark you're also being living in the city, not that
you've always lived in the city. I mean, why why
would you tell me to come and live in the city.
I live in a suburb and I drive into the city.
I use the city, love the city, but I like
to drive out and have in my backyard.
Speaker 5 (10:44):
Well, well you can have the both. We're not serving
an apartment in Mayfair. You can have the town built
in your back door step.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
So the city is love it's going to a lovely vibe
about it. There's some things something things close to it.
Speaker 5 (10:55):
I can walk to the I caught the dairy across
the road at Schape is not I mean there's city
is a happening, vibe, energy place, and I love that.
I feed off the energy of the people around me
and this bo that's what gets me go in the city.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
I'm quite impressed by it. I'm impressed by it. I
might have to spend a weekend in town and stay
in town. The Business panel this morning has Cafe Ice
owner Carl Teffan Barker and property developer Mark Quinn. For
the first time, the council has responded to public concern
over a cycleway project, voting to investigate reinstating the car
parks the Glenmore Street near the Botanical Garden. We on
(11:29):
this show counted it was the fifth u turn in
the year. There was the reading, cinema deal, airport share sales,
Bagondia House, Kendala Poul and now this Mark. Are you
concerned slightly concerned that the council's responding to residents concerns
or does it demonstrate they're not probably properly consulting before
(11:52):
they make the decisions in the first place.
Speaker 5 (11:54):
It's probably a combination of all those things. I mean,
they're getting information from their officers, they elected officers and
it's quaky year, from the offices within the department, so
they were taking information. They've put an agenda. I mean,
they were voted in democratic world. They were voted in.
They've got an agenda, and they're carrying out their agenda,
whether you.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Like or lot. That's democracy.
Speaker 5 (12:14):
So other listening to the to the public, they clearly
are it's election year and some things are being reversed
that clearly aren't stacking up.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
And you reckon as simple as that. It's not that
they're not competent.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
You don't.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
You still have confidence, you're doing multimillion dollar deals. You
still have confidence dis counsel can can get us through
this hump.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
I don't think it's in competence.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
I think it's just an agenda that they want to
push through in there in their three years and it's.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Coming to an end.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
So now they're realizing that you get a bit more
public back on side, and now's the time to strike, right.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Karl, are you happy with this? What other projects do
do you think the council need to reconsider? I mean,
you know, if they're reconsidering this, don't mention the gold markers.
We'll talk about that later.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
I think I think realistically this is great that although
the point is they're only just reconsidering it at the moment.
I mean, we need them to actually make that change.
Did they consult forehand? Not really not if you call
consultation actually having a conversation whereby you listen to the
other person. I mean, everyone knew that what would happen,
what has happened would happen. You know, the car cars
(13:17):
taking the cars away from there was an unneeded thing
right from the beginning. You could have put in the
time framed, you know, the freeway. You know that at
that time, so people start. I mean that would make
logical sense. So I mean, if you look at the
things that they have reversed on, I mean, I heard
you the other day talking about them flip flopping and
all these sort of things, changing your mind is not
necessarily a bad thing. I mean, the reading deal was
(13:38):
a bad deal. Selling the airport shares was a bad idea.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
If you look at the whyless start to start with
it is my question?
Speaker 4 (13:46):
Well, yeah, that's exactly the point.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Are they doing the.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Research and studying and sorting it out before they had
to flip flop, I mean flip flops.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
I would suggest there's a lot of really poor decisions
being made in this current council and those five were
just poor decisions to start with the candalar pool. You
could argue the numbers that they put out having for
costing to repair the pooll. You know, you may have
to consider that one as a a yeah, maybe maybe not.
But even said that, a lot of the stuff that
they're doing and being priced up and numbers that just
(14:13):
don't sound realistic, and I think we need to look
at that as well.
Speaker 5 (14:16):
Mark Bagni House is really just a bit of nuts up,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Really?
Speaker 4 (14:21):
There's nothing wrong with the place shut some double million
dollars to fix it.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
It is just ridiculous.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
That's just a report that someone's commissioned to back up
the story, to get rid of it, get to get
off your books, and they don't to maintain it into
the future.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
That's just absolutely that's were you four for keeping it off?
For keeping it.
Speaker 5 (14:36):
Absolutely, yeah, just just double glaze or whatever you need
to do.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
I mean what gets to me, and we will talk
about it shortly because well waters reports come out and
it's stamming, to say the least, it's stamming. And we'll
do more of it as we go on in the show.
But surely they came to you and said, as a
developer and as an expelder and Mark, sort this out
come and give me a price. I mean you would
be able to go up there, look at it, take
(15:01):
a couple of your key men up there or woman
up there with you and say, oh, that's leaking there.
I can fix that. I can fix the cyon fix.
It's not for twenty years, but it'll do for another
five years.
Speaker 5 (15:10):
Really agree, that's what needs to be just some just
some local common see boot boots on the ground. Get
a build up there, you know, someone like us. We've
got for nothing, that's what you think. It's been a
few hours and wander around. It doesn't need to have
what thirty million dollars it's spent on it. It's a
whole new building.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Can we change the narrative, Karl on this whole thinking
the way we're thinking of, you know, Wellington water a
pipe costs three thousand dollars for me and you to
do and the council and christ Church to do, but
in Wellington it's nine thousand dollars.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Well it's a classic. My wife always says, if you
go to Floris and you ask for a bunch of
flowers and they say that's thirty dollars. A second you
mentioned it's wet for a wedding, it's three hundred dollars.
So I think, you know, we've if you look at
things like even the fencing around the waterfront, you know.
I mean, I've got a mate who does fencing for
the council and he's looked at the plans. He says
it's about two k and I like to make money
at one thousand bucks a meter. That's two million dollars.
(16:02):
The council are telling us it's cost going to cost
somewhere between nine and thirty two million, which is a
ridict difference between the low in the high side anyway.
So I mean, I think the numbers that have thrown
out there are really bad. And I think if flying
to order reporters showing us anything, it's that the council
need to be ordered to see where we're getting whether
we're getting bad for money, because I mean the reality
is it's almost certain we're not. As Mark pointed out,
(16:24):
get a couple of decent local builders up to the
begin in your house and look at it and find
out actually how much it costs. So don't go to
the public and say we want to pull down begoon
your house because it's going to cost X amount of
million when that's just a false number.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Okay, Mark, If there's anything else that you say in
your business dealings that you think, why has the council
done this? Couldn't they have done it this way? Is
the only other projects that they need to really look
at and actually say, na, this is wrong.
Speaker 5 (16:49):
Actually just a parking on n More Street that was
just went up to the Lantern Festival a few weeks ago,
got up there, drive around for twenty five minutes's got
frustrated to hell, couldn't find a park.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Went home. I stayed.
Speaker 5 (17:02):
I stayed by how does person get on from hour?
Only person come from poor the park and they got
to get they getting Nana up to the land the festival,
they will go home.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
I went I part yeah. Lines. In the end, I
give up. I'm just parking here.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
And getting one hundred.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
The time I go back to the cow there are
six cars parked behind me.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
So did you cop a ticket?
Speaker 5 (17:20):
No ticket, fortunately, but I just give up and I
always have to park somewhere. Surely they could have missed
some negotiation because the potamial guards not used for the
whole year round, just during summer break. Summer time, maybe
they could have taken the bike lane and put it
back into a car park just for the Lantern festival,
taken those white.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
I don't think that's enough. I mean, realistically, every day
people are visiting the botanical garden and want to be
able to wander around it. I mean, I hear what
you're saying events, and the problem is what we're saying
is a little bit would be better than what we've got,
but the reality is what we should have as the
best result possible.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yes, now, this news has only just come out, so
I don't expect you to have a lot of information
in front of you, but I mean it's a damning
report on well into water. We know that one into
water is such a majority of what we spend our
rates money on and we know there's a lot of
people doing it tough because the rate price is going up.
But the bottom line is that we're getting charged, you know,
(18:17):
three times what people are. And one of the cities
that were quoted, christ Church Hamilton wrote to Ruin Fonganu,
I mean, Carl Tiffan Barker, when you first heard this,
which would only be half an hour ago, what did
you think?
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Not overly surprised, to be honest, Nick, you think what
three times the price? You know what when you look
at how much we spend on so many different things,
I think, you know, I think we're getting ripped off
on a whole lot of things in I think governments,
in local governments tend to do that. And if you're
not auditing the books properly, if you're not monitoring things,
if you're not holding people accountable, you know, inefficiency se
has happened. You know, we're spending forty one million dollars
(18:54):
from remember, moving into new offices, and that involves us
doing the earthquakeness strengthening on the building, I believe. So
you know, if we're making those sort of decisions in procruitment,
procruitment decisions, then yeah, this doesn't shock me.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Unfortunately, insadly, Mark Quin, you are responsible for multimillion dollar developments,
so you know when someone's charging you too much. It's
interesting to see that. Warington City Council Hall being McNulty said,
said that that the region had been portrayed by Warrington
Wellington Water and said it was bullshit to suggest contractors
and were not aware that they were overcharging. Now contractors
(19:33):
had to how to figure out how they were going
to pay back to what they had creamed off the
rate bars, he said, I mean this is pretty serious stuff.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Is this is serious and totally disappointing. This is theft.
You know, heads need to roll and maybe.
Speaker 5 (19:45):
It's all totally well known within Warrington Water. I mean
City council last year we're pushing back on Wrington Water
and I think I thought it was just being a
bit pedantic, but maybe they're right after all, knowing what's
happening in there. This is theft there is, guys, and
they need to I mean, because we're paying for it,
I'm going to I'm being putting the extra costs onto
an apartment and someone to be paying for the apartment.
So it's downstream effect is that someone's gonna pay, someone's
(20:08):
gonna pay the ferrem in one day.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Do you think it's time? And I'll come to you
first on this mark. I will ask you, Carlos, is
it time that we absolutely cleaned up well into water,
like closed it down, start again. I mean we've got
a new you know, three waters done better or whatever
coming anyway, is this the time that we actually really
make put the stake in the ground and say, look,
this is this is this organization we've put up with.
(20:31):
It was so so long, with all the problems. Is
it time now we clear It's the time.
Speaker 5 (20:35):
I'm not sure what the process is, but maybe the
government could step in and put a commissioner in there
or something to try and try and you know, got
to handle them. I don't think to sacking people's, cutting
people's heads off for the sake of it, for their
own glory is going to solve the problem. Antonya walked
at the door last year. She was young, made a
few mistakes, but that skill. Don't just don't just chop
(20:57):
the heads off for the sake of it. Get to
the bottom of it. There must be a process and
procurement that's gone wrong. And if there's theft in there.
I've done the government work before. If there's left in
there or something it's been dishonest in there, that's got
to be exposed and that money's got to come back.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Calf Teffan Barker, Tanya has school. I actually thought she
was doing a good job. I mean, I kind of
she sold me, you know, I felt that she was
making the right comments and getting the right things done.
She had me convinced, and then she was gone. And
maybe this report and we want once again, we haven't
got into it deep enough yet. It's only been out
(21:31):
for forty minutes, so this report will actually involve some
of the time she was there. What did you think?
Speaker 4 (21:37):
I think the reality is we just need to start
having some adults in the room, you know, in using
common sense. The reality is, as I said, I'm not
surprised that there was these overspins because we're not actually
monitoring it. We should be judging ourselves constantly against other
other counsels in what they get for their money. You know,
we should be speaking to people and saying, well, how
much does it cost to do a meter's pipe, how
much does it cost to do a meter of cycleway?
(22:00):
How much does it cost to do a meter of
this so that we understand what other people are getting
and making sure that we're getting value for money. If
we're at as surely both side would be doings. Surely
I mean obviously not. I mean, yes, Nick, that's exactly right.
But the reality is you look at the starter this
report and it says we're not. And that's the unbelievable
thing is that for some reason we've taken this approach that,
(22:22):
you know, whatever money comes into council, whatever money comes
into way and to order it is free money and
it just comes out of the sky rather than actually
holding people to account, and of course it doesn't. It
comes directly from people who work hard to pay rates
that are now excessively high.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
And Mark, you know better than most that if you
were going to put a new lift in one of
your apartment blocks, you'd ring three other developers that have
put the same lifts and got a price for it
and worked out what they're going to part that when.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
You it's a process, what was a procurement process? Does
someone check it off or is it just like sweetheart
deals and mate rates?
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Well, this is what I'm worried about that that we're
seeing here too.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
But I didn't think that was the case because if
you look at the big pipe and down towern X
Street that was put in by Ruins and now on
Wayfroeld Street we've got ramsbottom there. So we haven't got
one contractor tying up the whole city. So that's a
good thing. You've got two contractors vying for the same contract, hopefully.
I don't know what's happening there is it? You to
this one, you to this one? There's regal legislation around and.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
What's to say that that that that hasn't happened. What's
to say that we're saying, actually, you know, Wellington's a
bit tougher because earthquake strength, and we've been a double
or triple charge for this.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Well, that's what we're doing.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
That's what they're doing. Oh scary. Let's talk Golden Mile.
Work on the first intersection part of the Golden Mile
plan will actually begin next month. I thought it was
this month. I'd say April fours, that's right, it's first
of April, that's right, it is, uh cal Tiffan Barker.
You've got a business on Courtney Place, You've got businesses
all over the place, but you have got a business
(23:53):
in Courtney Place. Is this project? You know, I've got
a little bit of a different opinion on it because
I spoke to a very well known town planner the
other day and she's convinced me a little bit differently.
Is this project a good thing?
Speaker 4 (24:05):
Absolutely not. It's one hundred and forteen million dollars that
we can't afford. That does not solve the problems that
we have in the area, which is cleanliness and safety.
Nothing in this plan fixes those two components. When you
think about one hundred and fourteen million dollars, you know,
if someone li isn't in Tawa, oh, just do it.
I'm sick and tired of hearing about the Golden Mile.
(24:25):
You know, if you live in Kraory, you think these
things one hundred and fourteen million dollars. If we borrow
half of that, that's thirty five dollars in interest payments
from every single household in Wellington for the rest of
your life. So if you're sitting in tower and thinking
it's not going to feed me next year, it's thirty
five bucks on the interest payments on the line. You know,
the reality is it's expensive businesses will not survive and
the street will be worse than it is now. We'll
(24:47):
have more places for people to lie around and hang
around because we're not fixing those those core issues, which
are the safety, the homelessness, and the cleanliness.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Mark Quinn. I walked my wife. She said, that's going
and get a sandwich from basically one end where the
Embassy Theater is. That's where we're apart, down to les
Mill's gym to get a sandwich at six and sevens
around Courtney Place.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Now.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
She hadn't been walked down there for a long time.
She said, is there any other way we can walk back?
I just don't want to see that, She said, it's ugly.
She said she was. She said, it's ugly. Can we
go around behind the church and come back the other
corner so I don't have to have to walk there
down Courtney Place. So something has to be done with
Courtney Place. Something does have to be one with Courtneys.
I agree with Carl mostly, but the thing is.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Underwhood.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
It's underway, so there's not much we can do about it.
We can look look to the future. We've already got
His first stage is now been signed off. I believe
in they're starting shortly. Okay, I'm not sure that the
dollars on that. Do you even know what the dollars are?
Speaker 3 (25:48):
No, we don't know it.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
No one knows. No one knows. That's question.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
You're right there as far as one hundred and forty
million goes. We cannot afford the whole thing, No to
ways about it. But we're underway on this first stage.
I think we just you do.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
This and you're saying, I'm trying to get those where
our listeners can get clarity because you live in the area,
you're developing in the area, so it's very important to
you do the intersection only, or do the whole Corny place.
Speaker 5 (26:09):
Do the Cony place, do whatever it's been signed up for. Well,
that's because that'll that'll know. Not they haven't signed up
for the whole thing, have they. No, No, it's just
the first stage, just the first age. Now we've signed
up for that. That will take you to the next
selection and then see what happens after that.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
So by first age you mean the intersection.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Right through to town Chu Street.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
That's a three year project.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, it's not that.
Speaker 5 (26:33):
It's going to be painful for business in the absolutely painful.
But the thing is at some point that the paving
was put down there is there at the moment, at
some point it was put there down there, maybe ten
to fifteen years ago, and there's inconvenience then.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
For the businesses.
Speaker 5 (26:47):
But you need to get to look after the business
some way. And maybe it's you've got your encroachment licenses,
will avoid those for ten years. You give us the
rightsless area for ten years or twenty years. Do something
for the business. I know they can't push too much
and give you some give you some money because it say,
it's a dangerous precedent news on whine, So they'll just
give you some sweetness to get along the way.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
That's that we're underway. They're going to push here, but
you like it or not. I think trying.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
I think what's going to happen Mark is that the
next election we will change the council and if we do,
we will have to buy out the contracts and just
stop it. We need, you know, replacing the I mean
what Mark's saying and what I'm starting to turn a
little tiny but on is.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Something needs to be done. Of course it does. So
if we actually if we've got a place, we spent
all this money, shouldn't we just try and work the
best way of getting it done.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
It's a poor design though. I mean, the thing is,
if you look at the designers a poor design. Putting
cycle ways through an entertainment zone is just ridiculous. Nowhere
in the world would you put a cycle way through
the middle of an entertainment zone. Nowhere find a cycle
way through the middle of of an entertainment zone.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Buses to buses make a strict ask me.
Speaker 5 (27:59):
But yeah, I mean, why would you not have buses
going through the buses there? We had a death last week,
poor German lady. I mean that's that's the will be
more of those when you get someone of the few
jugs on board, they'll be walking out in front of
these quiet buses now and get run over. They should
they should have gone to Wakefield Street they haven't. Then
there'll be a true entertainment area, wouldn't it. Yes, there's
no buses, there are true what's it going to be?
(28:21):
It's a half way house, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
But the problem I've got, The problem I've got with
no buses, no transport going down the middle, and you
think get there and how many people are going to
sleep on the side of the street.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
Oh well, as I said, you know, they're the issues
that to play safety, homelessness, in cleanliness. None of the
changes that we do changed this, not one where they're
meant to of course they are. They're meant to make
it a better place to be for people to enjoy.
It's not still dirty, it's not a bit.
Speaker 5 (28:49):
It's a housing issue, right, So people sleeping out under
the stars, that type of thing that that's that's an
issue that's nothing to do with the pavement under them.
That's a big social issue going on there that we
need to address as well.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Yes, and we do one hundred percent right very quickly,
because I really want to talk to ask you where
you're going to take someone special? But citizens arrest, and
we've had usual legislations get about to come out. That
means that you will no longer have to wait till
six o'clock at night, until six o'clock, nine o'clock at night,
till six in the morning to perform get my mouth going,
(29:24):
a citizen's arrest, and it won't have to be a
thousand dollars. What did you first think when you saw
this Mark, I.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
Think, I agree that citizens arrest for security guards and
bounces that type of thing, because at the moment they
can't touch they can't touch anybody. They can just walk
out the supermarket. They're trolley full of groceries. So they
definitely get the power for.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Arrest.
Speaker 5 (29:43):
But not the public, not me and you, Not me
and you, because we've seen it in loc someone years
ago got stabbed. Someone stepped into an argument and got
stabbed and killed.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
So no, definitely not Carl very quickly because I want
to get.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
Into and I actually agree with Mark on that one.
I think for security guards it's one hundred per cent required.
I mean, I think, and I assume that's why the
legislation is looking at being changed. So if they can
define it as that, that's fantastic, because someone walking out
of a supermarket with a trolley fullish shopping that can't
be stopped is creating a really bad precedent and it's
happening over and over again.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Right right back to the part of the show that
I really like. Right, So, someone's arrived into Wellington eleven o'clock.
They've had a bit of a bumpy flight, because no
such thing as a smooth flight into Wellington.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
As we all know, you.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Picked them up at the airport, that very very special
auntie mother someone you really really want to show off
and you just want to be proud of Wellington and
you want to actually take them somewhere very special. Mark,
Come on, tell us what you're going to do with
your very special guest.
Speaker 5 (30:37):
Okay, think look helling if a got because I want
to do a twenty four hour period if you can, please,
oh if.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
You can speed it up.
Speaker 5 (30:42):
Okay, So first off, you've got the plane at seven
o'clock in the morning, plenty fresh year in your face.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Fantastic.
Speaker 5 (30:47):
Get him into Lowell Bay. There's plenty of spots there
for a coffee. Get in the car straight out to Eastbourne,
out to burdens Gate and hire an e bike and
then get down to the pincre A lighthouse, the one
on the waterfront, and.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Then take the track up to the top.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
And from up there it's just a gorgeous dimension looking
back ato Warrington. Wow, fantastic. Everyone should go there. I've
never done it, but will you need to do? It's fantastic,
easy to you by easy shoot back into town. You
can lunch on the way, you've got the pavilion, Day's
Bay or Patoni. I'd get a lot of stays because
I love love all these days and rita bay there,
walk around the walk around the waterfront, as everyone has to,
(31:22):
of course, and then I'd do something but different here.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
I'd take them.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
To Tory, even retreat on tour Rest Street.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Tory.
Speaker 5 (31:29):
This place has got the biggest finished sauna in New Zealand.
Well just a little known fact. It's been there thirty
eight years, this place and with a with a five
degree plunge pat which is super cool in all respects.
So good in there, really good, good for you, good
for your body. Get him out of there. That time,
I'd be close to dinner time. We'd be off to
one of my favorite restaurants. I've got four here, Aparchy, Dragonfly,
(31:50):
Hummingbirds and Chow. Then after dinner, I'll then get a
scooter and then go to Mount Vack, up the road
to Mount Vack, to see Waynington at nighttime.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Well, you've had enough time, now you've give Actually, each
and every business is operating your bulley that I think, Carl,
what are you doing?
Speaker 4 (32:07):
You've got Mark has got a much more exciting one
than me. I'm just going to wander them around the
waterfront and in the inner city. I mean, we've got
the most walkable city in the world. It's absolutely stunning,
and I think that, you know, I've just had some
people over from from Asia basically visiting from one of
my supplies, and that's exactly what we did. We wandered
around and they were just blown away how beautiful the
city is. So I think i'd wandered them around the waterfront.
Nice glass of wine, maybe around ockside of Saint John's
(32:29):
if the sun was out, or otherwise. We can go
to your place, humming Bird and get one of your
rum runners. I think, really really nice, by the way,
and I know you don't drink. And then yeah, Patch
is about to reopen on Tory Street, just cross from
the road from where we are now, and Lee does
amazing food, so it's there and wants impoon for me.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Great, there you go. Thank you both for coming. And
that didn't that go quickly? Mark, you're so quiver, I said,
don't worry. It'll be over and done with before you
know what that is. Cafe Ice owner Carl Tiffan Barker
still hasn't announced whether he's going to run for me,
but he will and on the show I'll just remind
him again. And property develop a mark one who's obviously
(33:06):
got this amazing, amazing setup about to be start hopefully
May fare, which I'm looking forward to.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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