March 5, 2025 • 8 mins
A scathing report into the management of Wellington Water has found the organisation is paying up to three times as much for unplanned pipe maintenance as comparable councils in NZ - so how did this happen, and how will the region's councils respond?
Also, the government has released a tranche of documents into the work to replace the Interislander ferries. What do the documents reveal?
NZ Herald Wellington issues reporter Georgina Campbell joined Nick Mills for the Capital Letter.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks ed B taking the pulse of the city.
The Capital Letter on news Talks, EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Joining us for her regular Capital Letter Slaughes New Zealand.
Here Wellington's issues reported Georgina Campbell, George are you doing good?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
How are you?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Nick?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Cold enoughy this morning?
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Oh it was horrible, wasn't it? Got the rain jacket out,
coat out. It feels like some is over. I was
quite sad.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I hope it comes back, Yes, so do. I I
had the leaky bancon on last night. I got went
up to my rooms in the hop of the do
a cold wet. I'm put the leaky bancon on half
an hour for it. I I can't do it. Oh,
not talking about me, now, we're talking about you. Now,
let's talk about Wellington Water. You've been digging into this report.
I mean this is terrible.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Yeah, what a disgrace. But I think the thing is
true is that it sort of feels like another review
has found serious failings with swelling to water. You know,
we've had two reports essentially, one saying that rate payers
have been ripped off because you know, Wellington mortar has
(01:13):
prioritized its own contractors above rate payers and another report,
you know, raising serious concerns about the opportunity for fraud
at the company. And it just reminded me, you know,
over the years of just how many reviews we've had.
You know, you remember the fluoride situation where it was
(01:34):
revealed that our fluoride in the Wellington region hadn't been
administered properly for you know, six years, I think, and
in some cases, you know, the water wasn't being fluoridated
at all. You know, you have the fifty one million
dollar budgeting eraror it's just a series of really serious failings.
(01:54):
Was you know, the infrastructure that Wellington WAT is in
charge of being you know, arguably one of Wellington's biggest issues.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Can you see change between now and when the new
reform takes over?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, And I think that is the interesting thing about
this situation is that Wellington Waters days are numbered anyway,
regardless of its serious failings. And so there have been
calls for the chairman of Wellington Water, niclar Get, to resign,
and I think you know, Counsels being the shareholding counsels
(02:31):
and Wellington Water need to really consider whether he is
part of the solution or part of the problem. You know,
I think he's been in that chairman position for two years.
He's sort of made the argument that he's proactively, you know,
tried to identify some of these problems and actually bring
them to light and get on top of them and
(02:52):
find solutions. But you know, I did sort of think,
you know, those reports were so serious to me, and
I just sort of thought, well, what's the point in
having a board if that's that's been had under their watch?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
It's a whole board, the whole boarder watching this.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
One, and that isn't that the point of having a
board so that stuff like this doesn't happen. So, yeah,
it will be interesting to see the position that counsels reached.
You know, they might just decide that it's just better
to just you know, keep going, get it as tidy
as they can until this new entity comes in.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
On the Nick legged thing. And obviously I know Nick
reasonably to well, you know, I have and I think
he's a great guy, and I love having him on
the show and everything. Is it almost like a no
win situation. He resigns or he stays on same scenario,
No one trusts him when he's there. If he resigns, well,
it's who cares.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Yeah, I mean it's it's difficult for him. And he has,
you know, apologized profusely and he's made the argument that
accountability is identifying a problem fixing it and that's what
he's doing.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
You know.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
He has said if the region's mayors said he needed
to resign, then he would, and that he's you know,
can pause for thought on his position.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Okay, what do you think?
Speaker 3 (04:13):
I I just think it comes down to the question
is is he heard of the solution or the problem?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
And who will make that decision? The mayors will they
sort of sit around? They've got that other group that
carry Prendergas is in charge of too. Could they actually
turn around and ask him to result?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
There are so many groups to do with water. I
honestly get confused sometimes between the various acronyms and names
of these groups. I think it will be potentially a
decision for the Wellington Water Committee, which is.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
The one caris chair.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
No, yeah, don't worry, I've been there neck well. The
Wellington Water Committee is meeting next week. These are representatives
from all of the councils. Look I'm not sure if
this will be on their agenda, but I imagine that
if anything you know, to do with having confidence in
the chair or a formal vote, that that might happen
in that marketing.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Now, I've only got three minutes and I need I
know you need more time than that. But what's going
on with the fairies?
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Yes, there was a big proactive release of documents yesterday
around what the Ministerial Advisory Group had reported back to ministers.
The most interesting thing to me was that that group
was set up and a month later they said to
Finance Minister Nikola Willis and other ministers, you need to
urgently ask Kirri Rowl to go back and renegotiate the
(05:34):
contract with Hayondo Mipo Dockyard, which was the South Green
shipyard contractor to build the Mega Fairies. And so you know,
they they thought that that was the most viable and
cost effective option, you know, which it's not. It's not
a great look, I suppose for Nicola Willis, after she
you know, hastily said at the end of last year,
(05:56):
she find it's all it's all off. But she did
take that advice and you know she you know, they
tried to renegotiate the contract, but it came back being
too expense of Now we've got the new Minister for Ral,
Winston Peters. He met with hyend Home Memo Dockyard last week.
He said it was a charming meeting and they're sort
of back in the running for this current tender process.
(06:18):
The other interesting thing that came out of those reports
is the sense of urgency from the Ministerial Advisory Group
saying you know, you guys, you guys need to get
this sorted out quickly. You know, they wanted a contrast
signed for new ships by October last year. Well you
know it's not going to have now March twenty twenty five.
So you know what's happened was Winston Peter's coming in
(06:40):
as the new Minister for Ral, him, you know, wanting
to see if there's a better option, you know, asking
for proposals from the private sector. That's all just taken
so much time, hasn't it. And it's sort of you know,
that is very much at odds with what the Max said.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
You know, the thing that I keeps getting my mind
is we picked it on this show. We said, you
know that Nicola willis had a plan, wasn't the rail
plan that what Winston Peter's wasn't it was now a
rail enabled but not rail whatever. You know what I mean,
you know what I'm saying. So he's taken the lead
trying to make it this rail you know, and it's
(07:16):
not going to happen, is it.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Well it's interesting because the last mag report that was
proactively released is from about the middle of last year,
and then there's this burg gap of months before we
get the cabinet paper proactively released from December, and so
you know, like it was sort of all lined up,
presumably to sign a contractor in October, which we don't
know if that was Nicola Willis's.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Profor it was her idea. It was her idea when
it was and it was not was rail enabled but
not rail whatever.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
The other called rail capable rail capable, which means that
you know, a vehicle basically you know, takes everything off
and puts it on and rather than the trains driving straight.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Up, well, and he wants Winston wanted the trains to
drive straight on it.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
When St Peters says that, you know, rail enabled fairies
should be in the mix.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Okay, so we sit back and wait, George, and we'll
know for sure that when it actually the story comes out,
you'll have it.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah. Well, I mean I'm sure that the government will
want to make a big announcement, you know, when they
actually sort their ship out.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Their ship out. I like the way you said that.
Think about that, sort their ship out, get it. No
one else got it apart from me. Seven minutes to eleven,
sort their shit. That's what I meant, seven minutes to eleven.
Georgiina Campbell, thanks for joining us. Georgina is the New
Zealand Herald's issues reporter.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks There'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks ed B taking the pulse of the city.
The Capital Letter on news Talks, EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Joining us for her regular Capital Letter Slaughes New Zealand.
Here Wellington's issues reported Georgina Campbell, George are you doing good?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
How are you?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Nick?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Cold enoughy this morning?
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Oh it was horrible, wasn't it? Got the rain jacket out,
coat out. It feels like some is over. I was
quite sad.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I hope it comes back, Yes, so do. I I
had the leaky bancon on last night. I got went
up to my rooms in the hop of the do
a cold wet. I'm put the leaky bancon on half
an hour for it. I I can't do it. Oh,
not talking about me, now, we're talking about you. Now,
let's talk about Wellington Water. You've been digging into this report.
I mean this is terrible.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Yeah, what a disgrace. But I think the thing is
true is that it sort of feels like another review
has found serious failings with swelling to water. You know,
we've had two reports essentially, one saying that rate payers
have been ripped off because you know, Wellington mortar has
(01:13):
prioritized its own contractors above rate payers and another report,
you know, raising serious concerns about the opportunity for fraud
at the company. And it just reminded me, you know,
over the years of just how many reviews we've had.
You know, you remember the fluoride situation where it was
(01:34):
revealed that our fluoride in the Wellington region hadn't been
administered properly for you know, six years, I think, and
in some cases, you know, the water wasn't being fluoridated
at all. You know, you have the fifty one million
dollar budgeting eraror it's just a series of really serious failings.
(01:54):
Was you know, the infrastructure that Wellington WAT is in
charge of being you know, arguably one of Wellington's biggest issues.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Can you see change between now and when the new
reform takes over?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, And I think that is the interesting thing about
this situation is that Wellington Waters days are numbered anyway,
regardless of its serious failings. And so there have been
calls for the chairman of Wellington Water, niclar Get, to resign,
and I think you know, Counsels being the shareholding counsels
(02:31):
and Wellington Water need to really consider whether he is
part of the solution or part of the problem. You know,
I think he's been in that chairman position for two years.
He's sort of made the argument that he's proactively, you know,
tried to identify some of these problems and actually bring
them to light and get on top of them and
(02:52):
find solutions. But you know, I did sort of think,
you know, those reports were so serious to me, and
I just sort of thought, well, what's the point in
having a board if that's that's been had under their watch?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
It's a whole board, the whole boarder watching this.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
One, and that isn't that the point of having a
board so that stuff like this doesn't happen. So, yeah,
it will be interesting to see the position that counsels reached.
You know, they might just decide that it's just better
to just you know, keep going, get it as tidy
as they can until this new entity comes in.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
On the Nick legged thing. And obviously I know Nick
reasonably to well, you know, I have and I think
he's a great guy, and I love having him on
the show and everything. Is it almost like a no
win situation. He resigns or he stays on same scenario,
No one trusts him when he's there. If he resigns, well,
it's who cares.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Yeah, I mean it's it's difficult for him. And he has,
you know, apologized profusely and he's made the argument that
accountability is identifying a problem fixing it and that's what
he's doing.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
You know.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
He has said if the region's mayors said he needed
to resign, then he would, and that he's you know,
can pause for thought on his position.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Okay, what do you think?
Speaker 3 (04:13):
I I just think it comes down to the question
is is he heard of the solution or the problem?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
And who will make that decision? The mayors will they
sort of sit around? They've got that other group that
carry Prendergas is in charge of too. Could they actually
turn around and ask him to result?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
There are so many groups to do with water. I
honestly get confused sometimes between the various acronyms and names
of these groups. I think it will be potentially a
decision for the Wellington Water Committee, which is.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
The one caris chair.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
No, yeah, don't worry, I've been there neck well. The
Wellington Water Committee is meeting next week. These are representatives
from all of the councils. Look I'm not sure if
this will be on their agenda, but I imagine that
if anything you know, to do with having confidence in
the chair or a formal vote, that that might happen
in that marketing.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Now, I've only got three minutes and I need I
know you need more time than that. But what's going
on with the fairies?
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Yes, there was a big proactive release of documents yesterday
around what the Ministerial Advisory Group had reported back to ministers.
The most interesting thing to me was that that group
was set up and a month later they said to
Finance Minister Nikola Willis and other ministers, you need to
urgently ask Kirri Rowl to go back and renegotiate the
(05:34):
contract with Hayondo Mipo Dockyard, which was the South Green
shipyard contractor to build the Mega Fairies. And so you know,
they they thought that that was the most viable and
cost effective option, you know, which it's not. It's not
a great look, I suppose for Nicola Willis, after she
you know, hastily said at the end of last year,
(05:56):
she find it's all it's all off. But she did
take that advice and you know she you know, they
tried to renegotiate the contract, but it came back being
too expense of Now we've got the new Minister for Ral,
Winston Peters. He met with hyend Home Memo Dockyard last week.
He said it was a charming meeting and they're sort
of back in the running for this current tender process.
(06:18):
The other interesting thing that came out of those reports
is the sense of urgency from the Ministerial Advisory Group
saying you know, you guys, you guys need to get
this sorted out quickly. You know, they wanted a contrast
signed for new ships by October last year. Well you
know it's not going to have now March twenty twenty five.
So you know what's happened was Winston Peter's coming in
(06:40):
as the new Minister for Ral, him, you know, wanting
to see if there's a better option, you know, asking
for proposals from the private sector. That's all just taken
so much time, hasn't it. And it's sort of you know,
that is very much at odds with what the Max said.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
You know, the thing that I keeps getting my mind
is we picked it on this show. We said, you
know that Nicola willis had a plan, wasn't the rail
plan that what Winston Peter's wasn't it was now a
rail enabled but not rail whatever. You know what I mean,
you know what I'm saying. So he's taken the lead
trying to make it this rail you know, and it's
(07:16):
not going to happen, is it.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Well it's interesting because the last mag report that was
proactively released is from about the middle of last year,
and then there's this burg gap of months before we
get the cabinet paper proactively released from December, and so
you know, like it was sort of all lined up,
presumably to sign a contractor in October, which we don't
know if that was Nicola Willis's.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Profor it was her idea. It was her idea when
it was and it was not was rail enabled but
not rail whatever.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
The other called rail capable rail capable, which means that
you know, a vehicle basically you know, takes everything off
and puts it on and rather than the trains driving straight.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Up, well, and he wants Winston wanted the trains to
drive straight on it.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
When St Peters says that, you know, rail enabled fairies
should be in the mix.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Okay, so we sit back and wait, George, and we'll
know for sure that when it actually the story comes out,
you'll have it.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah. Well, I mean I'm sure that the government will
want to make a big announcement, you know, when they
actually sort their ship out.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Their ship out. I like the way you said that.
Think about that, sort their ship out, get it. No
one else got it apart from me. Seven minutes to eleven,
sort their shit. That's what I meant, seven minutes to eleven.
Georgiina Campbell, thanks for joining us. Georgina is the New
Zealand Herald's issues reporter.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks There'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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