March 16, 2025 • 33 mins
Nick was joined for this week's business panel by Gillies Group owner Malcolm Gillies, and tech entrepreneur and founding member of Vision Wellington, Luke Pierson.
They discussed how their particular industries are faring in the current economic climate, and how the government and councils can help things move forward.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk sedb Mondays Meaning Business. It's the business
panel on Wellington Mornings with Quadovic Property Management, a better
rental experience for all. Visit Quinovic dot co dot insad.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Let's get don let's get down monnight monight, Garacter, you've
had a million million night's just like person, So let's
get business.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
We do it every second Monday. Today. We've got a
really interesting couple of gentlemen to join us. I'm very
excited to actually present this Luke Pearson. Now, if you
haven't heard of Luke Pearson and you live in the
Wellington area, you've probably been living under a bit of
a rock because his name's been banning around for everything
(00:57):
from running for mayor to being the man behind vision
behind a tech company that he was the entrepreneur that
sold for lots of money, and he's lots of this
and lots of that. He's a mover and shaker in
Wellington and we're proud to have him on the show.
Good morning, Look, good morning, how are you very well?
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Great to be here?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Why can I just quickly ask him excuse me, Malcolm,
for one question, and then I'll come to you. Why
did you actually decide or have you really decided you
don't run and want to run for mayor? Because you
were really kind of the reason why this is me speaking.
One of the reasons why Vision got together was to
get you and get you to stand and be the man.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
And no, it wasn't. It wasn't. It's the reason I'm
involved with Vision though, because I agonized over this. Something
has to be done. And if the moment you put
you well was saying before before we started, the moment
you start saying something, you've got to do something. So
what could I actually do? And I thought about running
for mayor, I thought about standing for counsel. But I've
got a young family and this is the most that
(01:57):
I can do. It's also interesting, we're a really political city,
so trying to do something that actually can connect with everybody,
not just people on the left or people on the right.
It feels like a good thing to do.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
All right. And Malcolm Gillies once again doesn't need any introduction.
Over the last month, you would have used one of
his facilities, you would have either heard or talked about
or seen Zis or you would have gone to Brewtown.
I was out there a couple of weeks ago and
saw the concert, which just blew me away. By the way,
and he's a property developer. You know, you drive down
(02:31):
the road and my wife keeps moaning about those houses
on the hill that used to be where she played.
Now are all properties, beautiful properties that you've built. I mean,
you're you typify the absolute person that's made good welcome.
Speaker 5 (02:46):
Oh, thank you, thank you, Nate.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
So I mean, what's next for Malcolm Gillies? I mean,
you've done so much. What's next? So you're a mover
and shaker, so you're going to be doing something.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
Well, I think we've got to We've got to actually
make the things work that we've actually put in place.
So at the moment we're really focused on NZCIS and
getting that really ticking over. So we're only probably three
years into a five year business plan, and look, the
world's come unhinged, and so our original plans, you know
(03:16):
when we started, were to attract overseas teams on a
sort of a weekly or bi weekly basis. Well that
that just hasn't happened. We had the Swedish girls here
and that was fantastic. So what we're looking to do
now is to settle in our foundation members, which we've
got Phoenix, Hurricanes, Wellington Rugby, Defense and Corrections, so we've
(03:38):
got them what we call our foundation members. We're just
settling them in and making sure we can give them
what they need, and then we're looking for other avenues
to maximize the facility. One of the things when we
set it up was that we really wanted to develop
products at the facility in the way of sports products
(04:03):
that we could then market, monetize and then feedback to
our members to help them and to fund sport in
a different way. So at the moment, we're talking with
a local university and hopefully they'll come out and set
up a degree course out there. And one of the
things that's quite exciting is they're really focused on wanting
(04:25):
to do research and so hopefully with all the information
that we collect and store, they can help us actually
turn it into gold.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Right, and it is gold. I mean I have been
out and seen the facility. I've seen other international facilities worldwide.
They don't even slightly compete with what you've got the facility.
What made you go to the real extreme? I mean,
it's the real extreme, isn't it. I mean, you could
not spend more money done it better than what you've
done for a facility in the side of the world.
(04:58):
Absolute madness is that it was just an ego out
of control.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Nah.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
No, no, I wouldn't say it was an ego out
of control. We initially we went on a study tour
and we went around Ozzie looking at the different facilities.
And one of the questions that I kept asking my
partner Kevin and Jamie Taut, who's involved with a sports facility?
And it was where's the high performance part? And you know,
(05:24):
most of them had a swimming pool, a gym and
a field and there was nothing. We even went to
the Australian Institute of Sport and they actually had a
guy in a tent with like a heat pump blowing
into it. So we decided that, you know, if we
were going to be successful down here in New Zealand,
we had to do it better than what we've seen.
(05:45):
It had to be high performance. So we've developed that
and I'm sure over time we'll get there. We'll get
the results for doing that spending the money, so you're.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Hoping we got things like Man, you would come down
and do a month long training camp down here. It's
like a trip away. High performance American sports teams would
come here, have a month in New Zealand pre season train,
get NBA teams anything.
Speaker 5 (06:07):
Look that that was the original business plan. The reality
is times are tough. That's not happening worldwide.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Times are tough.
Speaker 5 (06:15):
Yeah, it doesn't mean it won't. And it's also a
slow burner. There's a lot of work. But you know,
Jamie's been working hard with a lot of overseas teams.
I think he's got the storm showing interest in coming down.
So it will happen. But in the meantime, we've got
to develop other ways of utilizing the facility, and one
of those is we're just launching in April our service departments.
(06:37):
So we're calling it the Village, and we've got fifty
top quality apartments. I can't say it's five star apparently,
but it's really really good.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
So we've got one.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
Bedroom and we've got two bedroom. It's going to be
fully serviced and we really want to get it out there.
Let people know, come along and have a look. It's
sort of in the campus, so it's it's part of
NZCIS and there's a lot of things that people to
stay there that they'll see, you know, and be part of.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
I've just heard in my ear that Lewis Cleberg, the
Olympic swimmer, is out there right now, right.
Speaker 5 (07:15):
You're right now, yeah, and they're what they're doing is
utilizing the new nine eyepool. They're using our altitude suites,
which are a state of the artible, incredible, and using
all the facilities. So what's happening between Jamie and Belinda
is we're looking at other ways in which to use
the facility that when we first set it up we
(07:36):
hadn't anticipated. We're looking at an elite membership gym where
they come, the public can come.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
That was the question I asked when I went out there,
because I thought to myself, I want to train here,
and they said, sorry, unless you've become a part of
the Hurricanes, you're not going to get the trade here.
I said, well, I think I might be a bit
old for that.
Speaker 5 (07:53):
Well, what we I mean there's twenty four hours in
a day and our foundation members are using it during
the day. But we've built another gym as well so
that we can offer that and then there'll be yoga
pilates and the ability to use the hot and cold
pools after ours, and the sauna and all the other facilities.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
And you need to have an open day. You need
to have an open day and let the public, you know,
go and maybe make a denay. I'm not trying to
tell you how to run your business in any form
or any way, don't get me wrong, but I think
the people need to see how amazing that facility is
because everyone will be absolutely mind blog blind when they
go and see it because they just hear about it.
Moving on slightly, Look, I want to ask you, because
(08:36):
I thought about this this morning, if you were mayor
for the day, right, so, just a really quick thing,
what was the one thing that you would do that
will inspire Wellingtonians to actually believe? Is there anything that
you've been thinking? Gosh, if only people would listen to
this and do this.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
Well good question. The one thing I think Wellingtonians need
more than anything is to feel listened to. At the moment,
every story is about Wellingtonians or you know, thinking or
suggesting this, or being opposed to or pro something data
and Council just doesn't listen. They do what they want.
So I think if there was one thing you could change,
it would be a real sense that the leadership and
(09:14):
council and the people working in the building are really
connected to Wellingtonian's what Wellington wants and listens, and I'm
really agnostic about what that actually is. It's more about
making sure people feel heard, people get whatever their points
of view are across, and that council then acts in
the best interests of the people.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
I mean, you're obviously a visionary. Doesn't it scare you
that right now our options and I don't think it's
going to change much. I don't think there's going to
be anyone that stands up and runs for mayor that
we're going to go, holy shit, thank Godness for that.
Really now our too hot runner. And I know that
you guys have been privy to survey floating around that
(09:56):
says right now, Ray Chung, it's going to be our
mayor come election time, and second on the list is
Tory Farno. There's nothing new are innovative.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
In that, well, I don't. I don't want to comment
on you know, who may or may not be the
next mayor. In terms of my preference, I think raised
an experience counselor he's got energy. Whether he's the right
guy or not, it's up to Wellington. I think you
know Tory has an approval rating of money minus forty
two percent at the moment, so she could well get through.
(10:28):
But that's a that's a pretty steep hill to climb.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Okay, it is our business panel with Luke Pearson. I
don't want to say you're from Vision, you're part of
Vision Wellington. I mean you were a successful self made
entrepreneur and I don't want to label you in some area.
But how if you were if you were explaining to
a businessman that you'd done business for the first time,
and you're looking across the table, what would you say, Hi,
(10:53):
Luke Pearson?
Speaker 4 (10:54):
What good question?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
It used to my job?
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Yeah, I started a technology company, so I'd spent twenty
years building that. It's an agency called Heyday, which was
acquired by a global and so for the last five years.
I think the official term that I use is I'm
a bit free range. I did some advisory work, I'm
on some boards I've done I studied architecture, actually dropped
out to start the business. So I've satisfied a bit
of my architectural fetish, some a little bit of property development,
(11:22):
little house to live in, a few things like that.
Have built a few things, and Vision for Wellington is
an attempt to give something back to the city, given
that the city has been so kind to me. I
love the place. You know, my kids are here, my
family's here, my business was here. So it's the most
difficult question I ever have to answer, is what do
you do all sorts of things?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Yes, we know what Malcolm Gillies does. He just builds things,
big things. I mean I wouldn't even want the bill
for your sound system and your gym. Now I'm a
sound system free. I walked in there and I looked
around at ten twenty thirty, one hundred, one hundred and fifty,
I just kept on guard. I mean, you know, why,
why do you have to do things that are so
(12:05):
damn good? Why do you have to have your subdivisions
that look so good? What drives you? But what drives
you to be the best, because you could have done
that for half the price.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
That I really enjoy creating. I'm a visionary. I always
see things complete, and I'm really really driven and I'm
blessed in that I surround myself with like minded people
and I think we all bring the best out in
each other. But I get so much satisfaction. I suppose
(12:40):
that with the projects that we've done and Upperhead, if
we went back to what really drives my projects is
I was there when Dunlops closed. You know, I was
the end of the world, scene of the world for
Upper Heart. People served my apprenticeship there. I mean it
was terrible. I mean half a toatre park was. You
know that all the mortgages have been paid from there.
(13:01):
So I was there when the c T, which was
the Central Institute of Technology, when that club, and that
should never have happened. So for me, it was about
trying to sort out something. When when I first purchased
exed Unlops, the thing that drove me then is I
want to I want to make this like it used
(13:21):
to be. I want to create jobs. I want it
to be the heart of Upperhart again. And you know
that really that passion for creating that sort of you
know that got me started there. When we looked at
NZCIS with my partner Keiv, we walked around and I
said to him, whatever we do here, I wanted to
(13:42):
be and create something that was as important and influential
and upper hut is what the c T used to be.
So that's where we started from.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Amazing, amazing. Let's ask a few questions about New Zealand
business and stuff. There's twenty two thousand more people on
the jobs he could benefit than a year ago, despite
the government's talk of making it harder to get on it.
Luke Pearson, why are numbers and why we got unemployment numbers?
That's we discussed it. It's the population of live in,
extra on job ready benefits.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Well. To be honest, I'm surprised it's not worse. You know,
things are really bloody tough out there. Excuse my French.
You know, contractors talking to even recruiters around around Wellington
or Auckland. They were really busy a few years ago.
Now they've they've got more candidates than they've got jobs.
It's really really rare to hear people going gangbusters, which
(14:37):
is why it's great to hear from you, because there's
some great stuff going on. It's just a matter of
finding it. And I reckon. Nobody wants to see people
out of work, obviously, but it wasn't long ago. That
if you were in business, you couldn't find staff. It
didn't matter what line of work you were in. In
my industry and technology, we had people who were transitioning
(14:58):
from full time employment, secure jobs to become contractors and
then twice as much in contract back to for example,
the government. Now of course the tides gone out on that.
So it you know, a really good personal used to
work with when contracting was the role was just established,
took it five months to find a new job. And
this is a really, really high quality person. So the
(15:20):
numbers aren't great, but it's not really a surprise. With
the surprise is that they're not worse, I think, Malcolm.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
I mean, you employ a lot of people over a spectrum.
You'd still be looking for people to work for you,
wouldn't you.
Speaker 5 (15:33):
No, Oh no, it's tough out there, I think you know,
we're right on the call face. So in the like
in the building industry, I mean, we're building houses now
and we're building them on our own land and our margins,
you know, to be quite frank a right down, you know,
to create a product that you can still sell in
this market. And we're still selling, so you know, we're
(15:55):
we're trying to, you know, keep everything going, but we're
not employing more people. And it's really really tough out there.
I think when we see the mount of liquidations, companies
going under, it is very difficult out there. People don't
have the disposable income. You look at the breweries that
(16:16):
and the hotel are the pubs we've got out at Brutown.
I mean they're twenty five to thirty percent down on
their turn.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
That's their profit.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
It's gone. And you know, we're the landlord, so from
our point of view, our rents are right down. I mean,
you're better to have someone in there than knowing at all,
so you've got to be sharing the pain. So it's
it is difficult out there. I mean, we looked at
the concerts neck and you were mentioning you were out there.
You know, the concerts that we got six thousand or
seven thousand and two, they were predicting thirteen and a
(16:46):
lot of the concerts around New Zealand were actually canceled.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
So everywhere you look.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
Yeah, I'm the same as youler. I'm surprised it's not more.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
When is it going to come? Right? We were told
to survive to twenty five We're now three months into
twenty five and you guys who are both movers and
shakers are saying.
Speaker 5 (17:05):
It's no better where we've seen it as we reckon.
We're we've hit the bottom, and we're seeing some, you know,
some signs the inflation coming back, interest rates coming down
a little bit. It's going to be a slow burner.
But once we see those building numbers, consent numbers go
up again, people being able to borrow money. I think
you've that will follow. The work will follow after that.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Yeah, that's I mean, we have to have hit bottom.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
You know.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
January we had twelve houses consented in Wellington twelve, Auckland
had nine hundred and three in the Cargo had fourteen.
I mean, ye are yeah, good question, plenty of you know,
because you're building them. But it's really rough. So the
only way is well, you know, I don't see, but
it really depends what we do.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
What about Trump? I mean, he could make it a
lot worse for us, couldn't he if he puts big
tariffs on? Are we really at bottom?
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Luke?
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Do you really think we're at bottom?
Speaker 4 (17:58):
I mean that's a good question, which which is your job?
I think what he's doing is the opposite end of
the spectrum to what's happening in New Zealand with economic
with economic policy, I suppose we've got, you know, the
government's run a conference kind of thing. Trump is doing
(18:19):
really really really big stuff. So it's and whether it
works or not, and the chances are it won't. Only
time will tell. But the thing that he is doing
is big, bold things, and his base absolutely love that.
So I definitely don't think we should be doing what
Trump is doing, and I think we may be in
for some fallout from that. But when it comes to
(18:40):
New Zealand, you know, there's probably a lot to be
said for a little bit of shoppun or something bigger
than what's going on.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Mate, Do you think that we're on the right track, Malcolm,
I mean, you know you say it's hit rock bottom.
I mean you you're creating it. You're saying, I know
lots of property developers in Wellington have got the slab
down ready to build ten downhouses for two years. The
slab's been down. They saying I'm not building anything. I
can't sell it, or if I can sell it, I'm
(19:07):
not going to make enough money. But you're still doing it.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
We're meeting the market and we're taking a long term view.
You know, we need to keep our team's going and
to sell the property, you've got to be meet the market.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
So that's the that's so people getting good deals out there.
Speaker 5 (19:23):
I think they are. I mean, you're getting a two
bedroom unit in upper huts. From the peak of the
market to now, there's probably eighty to one hundred thousand differents,
so I would say you are. I mean that comes
directly off off your bottom line, off the land. Yeah,
so you know, we're making very little, but at the
same time, we're keeping everyone employed and we're going to
be there to fight another day, which I think is
(19:45):
really important. I mean, we've been through three of these
and they've all been different. The GFC was you know,
that was pretty bad. But this one, this one's affecting everyone.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
I've got to say, this one's worse.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (19:56):
Well GFC was pretty bad for me because it was
really focused on developers, but this one's affecting everyone. It's
disposable and come high interest rate. Yeah, but you're going back.
I think at the moment with what chrisper Ship's doing
in the industry that I'm in shaking it up. I
think it's good.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
We'll talk about government procurement a little bit later in
the show, but I just quickly before I go to
for the news break, Luke, and I'm really interested in
you on your Wellington thoughts on this. The Wellington City
Councils preparing to spend two hundred and forty five thousand
dollars two hundred and forty five thousand dollars per unit
on every one of their social units, right, so it's
(20:38):
basically nearly half a billion dollars they're going to spend
over ten years. Should Wellington City Council be concentrating on
social housing or should they bloody do something with it?
Give it up, sell it up?
Speaker 4 (20:49):
Yeah, good question. I think we've got a national agency
responsible for social housing right across the country. Kanga, Order, Auckland,
Hamilton and Totong have all exited social housing. We absolutely
need it, But should Wellington rate payers be paying for it?
I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
No, your thoughts on that one, Melk.
Speaker 5 (21:08):
Social housing is definitely needed, but I don't think councils
should run them. I think we've seen it before. I
think it can be run better by the private sector
as well. You've got like an Upperhart, they've got the
Housing Trust, you've got people that are passionate and you
know there's a lot of encouragement for private people to
(21:30):
get involved in that. But definitely social housing it has
to be provided, but I don't think it should be
run or provided by the councils.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
So quick, yes or no to both of you. Whether
Wellington should get out of social housing.
Speaker 5 (21:43):
Yes, I think they should.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Malco, I want to start with you on this one.
The councils across the region didn't get together and put
it put in an apply for a regional government deal
and Prime Minister came out and chrystph Luxe and called
them or lame oh or lame in Oura days it
was lame. How bad was this? We have put something
together or do you think we didn't have anything to do?
Speaker 5 (22:04):
No, certainly I think we should. I mean, I think
there was a few minor councils that you know, didn't
get it in, and I think Canterbury was one that
also didn't get it in. But most of the major cities,
you know, put something in. I think it was negligent
not to put something in.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Yeah, I think and I'm going to come back to
you on this one, Malcolm, because I think this is
where we seriously need to look at an amalgamation. Look,
what are your thoughts on amalgamation? No one's ever asked
you what is your thoughts? And I'm talking about Potty
to Upperhart and Will entered the four the basin you
think we should amalgamate.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Well, I think it's got to be on the horizon somewhere,
doesn't it. You know, we're a small region, We've got
multiple councils, super complicated, and one of the reasons that
we didn't apply for a regional dealer is none of
the mayors could agree, you know. So I had I
had one hundred and fifty emails last weekend from people
writing in saying, you know, here are my ideas, here
(22:58):
are my concerns. It was everything from you know, a
one liner through to people who put multi page documents
full of ideas together for the city, really really care.
And so to be told that council, with thousands of
people at its disposal and six months couldn't put some
ideas together for a regional deal just seems absolutely outrageous.
(23:22):
So can I tell you three, say three ideas so
we could have asked for co funding for climate resilient infrastructure.
You know, that's things like climate resilience for critical infrastructure, roads, pipes,
that sort of thing, seawalls, other things like that. We
could have asked for a portion of the GST back
on new builds. We could have used that to relieve
(23:43):
the development contributions or any other things around, you know,
basically encourage people to build stuff like Milcom here. And
we could have asked the government to take over our
social housing, which would have had, as we now, four
hundred and fifty million dollar impact. And the thing that
those three ideas have in common is that all of
them meet at least some of the criteria for a
regional deal, and all of them would have had an
(24:05):
impact on rates. One thing that came through from those
one hundred and fifty emails loud and clear was everybody
is worried about affordability, and we've got a council talking
about housing affordability and putting all the prices up ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Can I just ask you, Malcolm, what you're what your thought?
I mean, you missed the upper heart. So the idea
of a one combined city council probably wouldn't be something
that you had. You know, you can walk into the
council at Upper Heart and say I'm building seventy five
more houses on this block of land and get it
done by monday. Now, under a regional, you know, a
(24:41):
combined city council, you probably wouldn't have that influence, would you,
Or would you? You probably would.
Speaker 5 (24:45):
No, No, I don't think it quite works like that,
to be honest, I'd love it if it did. But
I see the value in the council's coming together. I
think you wouldn't get so much division, and you'd probably
get more of a concerted view and get things done
like this thing should have been sorted out. And the
good thing is you got a mayor old gups to
do it. We'll put him forward.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
But I think.
Speaker 5 (25:09):
Realistically we're only a small area, and I think Wellington
is Wellington. You know, Wellington's the ones that pays the
rates for the library, Wellington residents, we all get benefits
from those sorts of things. We've got the stadium, the
new events center. It just seems to me we're not
a really big area to have so many councils, and
(25:32):
we might get more direction if we all came together.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
I agree. I've been pushing it for a while. Government
procurement now, this is something that you would directly be
involved with. Malcolm Government's proposing change to procurement rules for
government contracts to prioritize key we businesses. Now. I love
this idea, do you.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (25:51):
I think it goes by local. It's the same thing.
I mean, you know, support the industries and the local
businesses or New Zealand businesses. I mean they're the ones
we want extra employment, you know, we want more tax Yeah, yeah,
Luke your idea.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
Yeah, yes, I think for me it's a yes.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
But so it's sort of but if it's going to
cost it twice as much to build transmission guning and
a Chinese company.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Yeah, devil's in the detail, right, So as so long
as we're buying things of a similar quality, if we're
paying a bit more, fine, and obviously don't want to
be paying more for lower quality stuff. But there's so
many benefits in building an industry here, encouraging people to
invest and make things here. And it's not just economic,
it's you know, environmental. We're not necessarily shipping things in
(26:37):
if it's actually physical stuff and talent. You develop way
more talent here if we're investing in local businesses.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
I listened to a guy interview on Q and A
once who was in charge of the tunnel in Auckland, right.
He was the guy that was putting the whole thing.
He's now gone to work it for an Irish company.
He said. The thing that we've got wrong in New Zealand,
every big development we do, we have to start again
because they go and then we start again. If we
had one big organization that went from Auckland Tunnel to
(27:04):
the new Mount Victoria Tunnel to the Coss the new
motorway that goes from Betoni to Transmission Gully, they can
just move. Why wouldn't we not do that? The old
Ministry of Works Ministry works. That's exactly what it was.
Quick one before we go to a break. Briscoe's managing
director Rod Luke. Rod Duke Australian. I learned this week
(27:27):
last week that he's not in New Zealander, but he's
lived here forever. Needs thinks that the government needs to
get their arson to get and actually do something. Malcolm,
what do you think when you heard this comment from
one of New Zealand's most successful business people.
Speaker 5 (27:41):
Well, I've got a lot of respect for them, just
the industry that I'm in. I think they are doing
the right things at the moment with the fast track systems.
I don't know that they can do a lot more.
They're looking at the infrastructure funding and sort of so
the things I'm dealing with, I think they are doing
the best they can do.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
You feel confident with them?
Speaker 5 (28:04):
I feel confident.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
It took a long time for no.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
I feel confident the direction they're taking, I really do.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Do it, Luke, what do you think?
Speaker 4 (28:14):
I think? I think they they're sort of transitioning from
all this talk negative talk about the mess they've inherited,
and they need to start talking more positive. They're doing
that to an extent. We can talk ourselves into a recession,
we can talk ourselves out of one. But I think
they need to do something bold. So, you know, from
my perspective as a you know, with a tech background
involved in technology businesses, what if we did the same
(28:34):
thing for the tech industry as we did for the
film industry. You know, proper tax incentives, a better visas,
co investment education is some sort of reverse brain drain campaign.
We're effectively going and finding the best talent from overseas
and incentivizing them to come to New Zealand and bringing
in capital. The biggest problem we have in the tech industry,
(28:55):
or people keep telling me about, is we starved of capital.
We need investment for it.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
The interesting thing, have you heard the news this morning
on news talks there be that our gaming is nearly
at a million dollar industry, which is coming from nowhere.
The world's gaming industry are going up by two percent.
Ours is up by about twelve or fifteen percent. Is
that something that we're missing the beat on. We're so
big on movies and you know we're to and all
that stuff, all that talk, but are we missing a
beat on that?
Speaker 4 (29:19):
Ll We had emmapropter and for the first Vision for
Wellington event with James Cameron, and I think it's the
film and music industry globally combined is smaller than gaming.
So it's no surprise that that's growing here. What's interesting
is that they're just all doing that by themselves. There's
no support, nobody knows about it. They're just doing it.
So imagine if we did focus on it, what could
(29:40):
we achieve?
Speaker 3 (29:41):
And I believe there's a Wellington company doing it that
employs three hundred people. I mean, you just wouldn't even.
You know, we're not even. We don't know about it
because why they do it for themselves by themselves, no
one around. But okay, come on, Malcolm Gilly, step up
to the plate. You've said to the office at Upperhart
that you're going to pick up this really special friend.
You're going to spend the day with them. Don't call
(30:03):
me on my cell phone. I'm taking them out somewhere special.
What are you going to do with that person? I'd
have to take them to Upper Hut, of course you would.
It's good.
Speaker 5 (30:11):
I'd take them around n zc Ice, show them all
the facility. Hopefully there'll be the all Blacks there, all
the Hurricanes, and they're possibly out to brut Town and
maybe to Daytona, the entertainment park on the go karts,
maybe a bit of ice skating, trampoline park and then
(30:33):
go and try some of the bears and the bars.
So by that stage it'd probably be time to take
them back into town.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
There you go, how's that for a day out? A
trip to Upper Heat and you know what, you'd almost
laugh ten years ago you'd laugh about a trip to
Upper ut but now you know, it's like an event.
Speaker 5 (30:52):
Well, we're getting people from all over the region and
when we track the spend and it's interesting to see
where the people are actually coming from, so where it's
regionally and it's right throughout New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Good on you, well done you okay, Luke? Someone really special?
Speaker 4 (31:07):
All right, Well, I'm obviously going to want to spend
time with that person, talking to them and catching up.
So I'm going to do my four favorite things. Take
them from the airport, drive them around the bays in
the eastern suburbs, stop for a dopio at Scoolturama. Then
I'm going to keep going and drive around or intol Bay,
show them the city is still just as beautiful as
(31:28):
it ever was.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Can I just ask you what adoppio is.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Adopio is a long black but with about half as
much water. It's a double espresso. It's one of the
only places in Wellington that actually makes one.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
After only just meeting you for the first time, I
could understand that that's you because you look like you
had b before you start too there you carry on sorry.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
So now I keep going I'd have lunch at Prefab Yep,
it's you know, great, bustling, brilliant atmosphere, and then I'd
end the day with a pint or two or maybe
three garage project in RABELI.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Well, that sounds like a pretty cool sort of day
for both of you. I'd like to come out with
both of you for those days. I just take this
opportunity to thank you both because you are two great
Wellingtonians and to spend some time with you for me
was a highlight. So to finally meet you, Luke. I
have met Malcolm before, many many many years ago. I
have been an admirer of what you've done for Upper
(32:21):
Hut and for Wellington and for New Zealand. Because I
don't think we should label you as Upper Hut. I
think we should label you as New Zealand because there
is no facilities in New Zealand like what you've created.
So you and Kevin Melbourn, who I know reasonably well,
have done an amazing, amazing job and I want to
take this opportunity on my personal self to say thank
(32:41):
you for what you've done.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Luke.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
You've done extremely well and what you've done as well,
and I'm proud to spend some time with you, and
I hope that everything works out for what your group
and vision. You know, I call you the Shardney Club,
and I'm not going to call you that behind your back,
but I call it to your face. You know you're
the Shardney Club of Wellington, but you actually are doing
something about it, which I commend. And I only wish
(33:05):
that you had not turned down the opportunity to run
for me, because I think you would have been a
fabulous mayor.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Very kind of you. Thanks for having us on.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
All right, great enjoy your trip out and Malcolm, it
didn't take as long as you thought it was going
to take, doesn't it. Malcolm's have moved and shake Er
say you want to get it out of ten minutes.
I said, no, you're here for an hour and he
didn't like that at the pagetting, but he's all right.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Thanks for more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen
live to news Talks It'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk sedb Mondays Meaning Business. It's the business
panel on Wellington Mornings with Quadovic Property Management, a better
rental experience for all. Visit Quinovic dot co dot insad.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Let's get don let's get down monnight monight, Garacter, you've
had a million million night's just like person, So let's
get business.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
We do it every second Monday. Today. We've got a
really interesting couple of gentlemen to join us. I'm very
excited to actually present this Luke Pearson. Now, if you
haven't heard of Luke Pearson and you live in the
Wellington area, you've probably been living under a bit of
a rock because his name's been banning around for everything
(00:57):
from running for mayor to being the man behind vision
behind a tech company that he was the entrepreneur that
sold for lots of money, and he's lots of this
and lots of that. He's a mover and shaker in
Wellington and we're proud to have him on the show.
Good morning, Look, good morning, how are you very well?
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Great to be here?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Why can I just quickly ask him excuse me, Malcolm,
for one question, and then I'll come to you. Why
did you actually decide or have you really decided you
don't run and want to run for mayor? Because you
were really kind of the reason why this is me speaking.
One of the reasons why Vision got together was to
get you and get you to stand and be the man.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
And no, it wasn't. It wasn't. It's the reason I'm
involved with Vision though, because I agonized over this. Something
has to be done. And if the moment you put
you well was saying before before we started, the moment
you start saying something, you've got to do something. So
what could I actually do? And I thought about running
for mayor, I thought about standing for counsel. But I've
got a young family and this is the most that
(01:57):
I can do. It's also interesting, we're a really political city,
so trying to do something that actually can connect with everybody,
not just people on the left or people on the right.
It feels like a good thing to do.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
All right. And Malcolm Gillies once again doesn't need any introduction.
Over the last month, you would have used one of
his facilities, you would have either heard or talked about
or seen Zis or you would have gone to Brewtown.
I was out there a couple of weeks ago and
saw the concert, which just blew me away. By the way,
and he's a property developer. You know, you drive down
(02:31):
the road and my wife keeps moaning about those houses
on the hill that used to be where she played.
Now are all properties, beautiful properties that you've built. I mean,
you're you typify the absolute person that's made good welcome.
Speaker 5 (02:46):
Oh, thank you, thank you, Nate.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
So I mean, what's next for Malcolm Gillies? I mean,
you've done so much. What's next? So you're a mover
and shaker, so you're going to be doing something.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
Well, I think we've got to We've got to actually
make the things work that we've actually put in place.
So at the moment we're really focused on NZCIS and
getting that really ticking over. So we're only probably three
years into a five year business plan, and look, the
world's come unhinged, and so our original plans, you know
(03:16):
when we started, were to attract overseas teams on a
sort of a weekly or bi weekly basis. Well that
that just hasn't happened. We had the Swedish girls here
and that was fantastic. So what we're looking to do
now is to settle in our foundation members, which we've
got Phoenix, Hurricanes, Wellington Rugby, Defense and Corrections, so we've
(03:38):
got them what we call our foundation members. We're just
settling them in and making sure we can give them
what they need, and then we're looking for other avenues
to maximize the facility. One of the things when we
set it up was that we really wanted to develop
products at the facility in the way of sports products
(04:03):
that we could then market, monetize and then feedback to
our members to help them and to fund sport in
a different way. So at the moment, we're talking with
a local university and hopefully they'll come out and set
up a degree course out there. And one of the
things that's quite exciting is they're really focused on wanting
(04:25):
to do research and so hopefully with all the information
that we collect and store, they can help us actually
turn it into gold.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Right, and it is gold. I mean I have been
out and seen the facility. I've seen other international facilities worldwide.
They don't even slightly compete with what you've got the facility.
What made you go to the real extreme? I mean,
it's the real extreme, isn't it. I mean, you could
not spend more money done it better than what you've
done for a facility in the side of the world.
(04:58):
Absolute madness is that it was just an ego out
of control.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Nah.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
No, no, I wouldn't say it was an ego out
of control. We initially we went on a study tour
and we went around Ozzie looking at the different facilities.
And one of the questions that I kept asking my
partner Kevin and Jamie Taut, who's involved with a sports facility?
And it was where's the high performance part? And you know,
(05:24):
most of them had a swimming pool, a gym and
a field and there was nothing. We even went to
the Australian Institute of Sport and they actually had a
guy in a tent with like a heat pump blowing
into it. So we decided that, you know, if we
were going to be successful down here in New Zealand,
we had to do it better than what we've seen.
(05:45):
It had to be high performance. So we've developed that
and I'm sure over time we'll get there. We'll get
the results for doing that spending the money, so you're.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Hoping we got things like Man, you would come down
and do a month long training camp down here. It's
like a trip away. High performance American sports teams would
come here, have a month in New Zealand pre season train,
get NBA teams anything.
Speaker 5 (06:07):
Look that that was the original business plan. The reality
is times are tough. That's not happening worldwide.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Times are tough.
Speaker 5 (06:15):
Yeah, it doesn't mean it won't. And it's also a
slow burner. There's a lot of work. But you know,
Jamie's been working hard with a lot of overseas teams.
I think he's got the storm showing interest in coming down.
So it will happen. But in the meantime, we've got
to develop other ways of utilizing the facility, and one
of those is we're just launching in April our service departments.
(06:37):
So we're calling it the Village, and we've got fifty
top quality apartments. I can't say it's five star apparently,
but it's really really good.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
So we've got one.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
Bedroom and we've got two bedroom. It's going to be
fully serviced and we really want to get it out there.
Let people know, come along and have a look. It's
sort of in the campus, so it's it's part of
NZCIS and there's a lot of things that people to
stay there that they'll see, you know, and be part of.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
I've just heard in my ear that Lewis Cleberg, the
Olympic swimmer, is out there right now, right.
Speaker 5 (07:15):
You're right now, yeah, and they're what they're doing is
utilizing the new nine eyepool. They're using our altitude suites,
which are a state of the artible, incredible, and using
all the facilities. So what's happening between Jamie and Belinda
is we're looking at other ways in which to use
the facility that when we first set it up we
(07:36):
hadn't anticipated. We're looking at an elite membership gym where
they come, the public can come.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
That was the question I asked when I went out there,
because I thought to myself, I want to train here,
and they said, sorry, unless you've become a part of
the Hurricanes, you're not going to get the trade here.
I said, well, I think I might be a bit
old for that.
Speaker 5 (07:53):
Well, what we I mean there's twenty four hours in
a day and our foundation members are using it during
the day. But we've built another gym as well so
that we can offer that and then there'll be yoga
pilates and the ability to use the hot and cold
pools after ours, and the sauna and all the other facilities.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
And you need to have an open day. You need
to have an open day and let the public, you know,
go and maybe make a denay. I'm not trying to
tell you how to run your business in any form
or any way, don't get me wrong, but I think
the people need to see how amazing that facility is
because everyone will be absolutely mind blog blind when they
go and see it because they just hear about it.
Moving on slightly, Look, I want to ask you, because
(08:36):
I thought about this this morning, if you were mayor
for the day, right, so, just a really quick thing,
what was the one thing that you would do that
will inspire Wellingtonians to actually believe? Is there anything that
you've been thinking? Gosh, if only people would listen to
this and do this.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
Well good question. The one thing I think Wellingtonians need
more than anything is to feel listened to. At the moment,
every story is about Wellingtonians or you know, thinking or
suggesting this, or being opposed to or pro something data
and Council just doesn't listen. They do what they want.
So I think if there was one thing you could change,
it would be a real sense that the leadership and
(09:14):
council and the people working in the building are really
connected to Wellingtonian's what Wellington wants and listens, and I'm
really agnostic about what that actually is. It's more about
making sure people feel heard, people get whatever their points
of view are across, and that council then acts in
the best interests of the people.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
I mean, you're obviously a visionary. Doesn't it scare you
that right now our options and I don't think it's
going to change much. I don't think there's going to
be anyone that stands up and runs for mayor that
we're going to go, holy shit, thank Godness for that.
Really now our too hot runner. And I know that
you guys have been privy to survey floating around that
(09:56):
says right now, Ray Chung, it's going to be our
mayor come election time, and second on the list is
Tory Farno. There's nothing new are innovative.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
In that, well, I don't. I don't want to comment
on you know, who may or may not be the
next mayor. In terms of my preference, I think raised
an experience counselor he's got energy. Whether he's the right
guy or not, it's up to Wellington. I think you
know Tory has an approval rating of money minus forty
two percent at the moment, so she could well get through.
(10:28):
But that's a that's a pretty steep hill to climb.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Okay, it is our business panel with Luke Pearson. I
don't want to say you're from Vision, you're part of
Vision Wellington. I mean you were a successful self made
entrepreneur and I don't want to label you in some area.
But how if you were if you were explaining to
a businessman that you'd done business for the first time,
and you're looking across the table, what would you say, Hi,
(10:53):
Luke Pearson?
Speaker 4 (10:54):
What good question?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
It used to my job?
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Yeah, I started a technology company, so I'd spent twenty
years building that. It's an agency called Heyday, which was
acquired by a global and so for the last five years.
I think the official term that I use is I'm
a bit free range. I did some advisory work, I'm
on some boards I've done I studied architecture, actually dropped
out to start the business. So I've satisfied a bit
of my architectural fetish, some a little bit of property development,
(11:22):
little house to live in, a few things like that.
Have built a few things, and Vision for Wellington is
an attempt to give something back to the city, given
that the city has been so kind to me. I
love the place. You know, my kids are here, my
family's here, my business was here. So it's the most
difficult question I ever have to answer, is what do
you do all sorts of things?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Yes, we know what Malcolm Gillies does. He just builds things,
big things. I mean I wouldn't even want the bill
for your sound system and your gym. Now I'm a
sound system free. I walked in there and I looked
around at ten twenty thirty, one hundred, one hundred and fifty,
I just kept on guard. I mean, you know, why,
why do you have to do things that are so
(12:05):
damn good? Why do you have to have your subdivisions
that look so good? What drives you? But what drives
you to be the best, because you could have done
that for half the price.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
That I really enjoy creating. I'm a visionary. I always
see things complete, and I'm really really driven and I'm
blessed in that I surround myself with like minded people
and I think we all bring the best out in
each other. But I get so much satisfaction. I suppose
(12:40):
that with the projects that we've done and Upperhead, if
we went back to what really drives my projects is
I was there when Dunlops closed. You know, I was
the end of the world, scene of the world for
Upper Heart. People served my apprenticeship there. I mean it
was terrible. I mean half a toatre park was. You
know that all the mortgages have been paid from there.
(13:01):
So I was there when the c T, which was
the Central Institute of Technology, when that club, and that
should never have happened. So for me, it was about
trying to sort out something. When when I first purchased
exed Unlops, the thing that drove me then is I
want to I want to make this like it used
(13:21):
to be. I want to create jobs. I want it
to be the heart of Upperhart again. And you know
that really that passion for creating that sort of you
know that got me started there. When we looked at
NZCIS with my partner Keiv, we walked around and I
said to him, whatever we do here, I wanted to
(13:42):
be and create something that was as important and influential
and upper hut is what the c T used to be.
So that's where we started from.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Amazing, amazing. Let's ask a few questions about New Zealand
business and stuff. There's twenty two thousand more people on
the jobs he could benefit than a year ago, despite
the government's talk of making it harder to get on it.
Luke Pearson, why are numbers and why we got unemployment numbers?
That's we discussed it. It's the population of live in,
extra on job ready benefits.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Well. To be honest, I'm surprised it's not worse. You know,
things are really bloody tough out there. Excuse my French.
You know, contractors talking to even recruiters around around Wellington
or Auckland. They were really busy a few years ago.
Now they've they've got more candidates than they've got jobs.
It's really really rare to hear people going gangbusters, which
(14:37):
is why it's great to hear from you, because there's
some great stuff going on. It's just a matter of
finding it. And I reckon. Nobody wants to see people
out of work, obviously, but it wasn't long ago. That
if you were in business, you couldn't find staff. It
didn't matter what line of work you were in. In
my industry and technology, we had people who were transitioning
(14:58):
from full time employment, secure jobs to become contractors and
then twice as much in contract back to for example,
the government. Now of course the tides gone out on that.
So it you know, a really good personal used to
work with when contracting was the role was just established,
took it five months to find a new job. And
this is a really, really high quality person. So the
(15:20):
numbers aren't great, but it's not really a surprise. With
the surprise is that they're not worse, I think, Malcolm.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
I mean, you employ a lot of people over a spectrum.
You'd still be looking for people to work for you,
wouldn't you.
Speaker 5 (15:33):
No, Oh no, it's tough out there, I think you know,
we're right on the call face. So in the like
in the building industry, I mean, we're building houses now
and we're building them on our own land and our margins,
you know, to be quite frank a right down, you know,
to create a product that you can still sell in
this market. And we're still selling, so you know, we're
(15:55):
we're trying to, you know, keep everything going, but we're
not employing more people. And it's really really tough out there.
I think when we see the mount of liquidations, companies
going under, it is very difficult out there. People don't
have the disposable income. You look at the breweries that
(16:16):
and the hotel are the pubs we've got out at Brutown.
I mean they're twenty five to thirty percent down on
their turn.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
That's their profit.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
It's gone. And you know, we're the landlord, so from
our point of view, our rents are right down. I mean,
you're better to have someone in there than knowing at all,
so you've got to be sharing the pain. So it's
it is difficult out there. I mean, we looked at
the concerts neck and you were mentioning you were out there.
You know, the concerts that we got six thousand or
seven thousand and two, they were predicting thirteen and a
(16:46):
lot of the concerts around New Zealand were actually canceled.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
So everywhere you look.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
Yeah, I'm the same as youler. I'm surprised it's not more.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
When is it going to come? Right? We were told
to survive to twenty five We're now three months into
twenty five and you guys who are both movers and
shakers are saying.
Speaker 5 (17:05):
It's no better where we've seen it as we reckon.
We're we've hit the bottom, and we're seeing some, you know,
some signs the inflation coming back, interest rates coming down
a little bit. It's going to be a slow burner.
But once we see those building numbers, consent numbers go
up again, people being able to borrow money. I think
you've that will follow. The work will follow after that.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Yeah, that's I mean, we have to have hit bottom.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
You know.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
January we had twelve houses consented in Wellington twelve, Auckland
had nine hundred and three in the Cargo had fourteen.
I mean, ye are yeah, good question, plenty of you know,
because you're building them. But it's really rough. So the
only way is well, you know, I don't see, but
it really depends what we do.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
What about Trump? I mean, he could make it a
lot worse for us, couldn't he if he puts big
tariffs on? Are we really at bottom?
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Luke?
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Do you really think we're at bottom?
Speaker 4 (17:58):
I mean that's a good question, which which is your job?
I think what he's doing is the opposite end of
the spectrum to what's happening in New Zealand with economic
with economic policy, I suppose we've got, you know, the
government's run a conference kind of thing. Trump is doing
(18:19):
really really really big stuff. So it's and whether it
works or not, and the chances are it won't. Only
time will tell. But the thing that he is doing
is big, bold things, and his base absolutely love that.
So I definitely don't think we should be doing what
Trump is doing, and I think we may be in
for some fallout from that. But when it comes to
(18:40):
New Zealand, you know, there's probably a lot to be
said for a little bit of shoppun or something bigger
than what's going on.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Mate, Do you think that we're on the right track, Malcolm,
I mean, you know you say it's hit rock bottom.
I mean you you're creating it. You're saying, I know
lots of property developers in Wellington have got the slab
down ready to build ten downhouses for two years. The
slab's been down. They saying I'm not building anything. I
can't sell it, or if I can sell it, I'm
(19:07):
not going to make enough money. But you're still doing it.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
We're meeting the market and we're taking a long term view.
You know, we need to keep our team's going and
to sell the property, you've got to be meet the market.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
So that's the that's so people getting good deals out there.
Speaker 5 (19:23):
I think they are. I mean, you're getting a two
bedroom unit in upper huts. From the peak of the
market to now, there's probably eighty to one hundred thousand differents,
so I would say you are. I mean that comes
directly off off your bottom line, off the land. Yeah,
so you know, we're making very little, but at the
same time, we're keeping everyone employed and we're going to
be there to fight another day, which I think is
(19:45):
really important. I mean, we've been through three of these
and they've all been different. The GFC was you know,
that was pretty bad. But this one, this one's affecting everyone.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
I've got to say, this one's worse.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (19:56):
Well GFC was pretty bad for me because it was
really focused on developers, but this one's affecting everyone. It's
disposable and come high interest rate. Yeah, but you're going back.
I think at the moment with what chrisper Ship's doing
in the industry that I'm in shaking it up. I
think it's good.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
We'll talk about government procurement a little bit later in
the show, but I just quickly before I go to
for the news break, Luke, and I'm really interested in
you on your Wellington thoughts on this. The Wellington City
Councils preparing to spend two hundred and forty five thousand
dollars two hundred and forty five thousand dollars per unit
on every one of their social units, right, so it's
(20:38):
basically nearly half a billion dollars they're going to spend
over ten years. Should Wellington City Council be concentrating on
social housing or should they bloody do something with it?
Give it up, sell it up?
Speaker 4 (20:49):
Yeah, good question. I think we've got a national agency
responsible for social housing right across the country. Kanga, Order, Auckland,
Hamilton and Totong have all exited social housing. We absolutely
need it, But should Wellington rate payers be paying for it?
I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
No, your thoughts on that one, Melk.
Speaker 5 (21:08):
Social housing is definitely needed, but I don't think councils
should run them. I think we've seen it before. I
think it can be run better by the private sector
as well. You've got like an Upperhart, they've got the
Housing Trust, you've got people that are passionate and you
know there's a lot of encouragement for private people to
(21:30):
get involved in that. But definitely social housing it has
to be provided, but I don't think it should be
run or provided by the councils.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
So quick, yes or no to both of you. Whether
Wellington should get out of social housing.
Speaker 5 (21:43):
Yes, I think they should.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Malco, I want to start with you on this one.
The councils across the region didn't get together and put
it put in an apply for a regional government deal
and Prime Minister came out and chrystph Luxe and called
them or lame oh or lame in Oura days it
was lame. How bad was this? We have put something
together or do you think we didn't have anything to do?
Speaker 5 (22:04):
No, certainly I think we should. I mean, I think
there was a few minor councils that you know, didn't
get it in, and I think Canterbury was one that
also didn't get it in. But most of the major cities,
you know, put something in. I think it was negligent
not to put something in.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Yeah, I think and I'm going to come back to
you on this one, Malcolm, because I think this is
where we seriously need to look at an amalgamation. Look,
what are your thoughts on amalgamation? No one's ever asked
you what is your thoughts? And I'm talking about Potty
to Upperhart and Will entered the four the basin you
think we should amalgamate.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Well, I think it's got to be on the horizon somewhere,
doesn't it. You know, we're a small region, We've got
multiple councils, super complicated, and one of the reasons that
we didn't apply for a regional dealer is none of
the mayors could agree, you know. So I had I
had one hundred and fifty emails last weekend from people
writing in saying, you know, here are my ideas, here
(22:58):
are my concerns. It was everything from you know, a
one liner through to people who put multi page documents
full of ideas together for the city, really really care.
And so to be told that council, with thousands of
people at its disposal and six months couldn't put some
ideas together for a regional deal just seems absolutely outrageous.
(23:22):
So can I tell you three, say three ideas so
we could have asked for co funding for climate resilient infrastructure.
You know, that's things like climate resilience for critical infrastructure, roads, pipes,
that sort of thing, seawalls, other things like that. We
could have asked for a portion of the GST back
on new builds. We could have used that to relieve
(23:43):
the development contributions or any other things around, you know,
basically encourage people to build stuff like Milcom here. And
we could have asked the government to take over our
social housing, which would have had, as we now, four
hundred and fifty million dollar impact. And the thing that
those three ideas have in common is that all of
them meet at least some of the criteria for a
regional deal, and all of them would have had an
(24:05):
impact on rates. One thing that came through from those
one hundred and fifty emails loud and clear was everybody
is worried about affordability, and we've got a council talking
about housing affordability and putting all the prices up ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Can I just ask you, Malcolm, what you're what your thought?
I mean, you missed the upper heart. So the idea
of a one combined city council probably wouldn't be something
that you had. You know, you can walk into the
council at Upper Heart and say I'm building seventy five
more houses on this block of land and get it
done by monday. Now, under a regional, you know, a
(24:41):
combined city council, you probably wouldn't have that influence, would you,
Or would you? You probably would.
Speaker 5 (24:45):
No, No, I don't think it quite works like that,
to be honest, I'd love it if it did. But
I see the value in the council's coming together. I
think you wouldn't get so much division, and you'd probably
get more of a concerted view and get things done
like this thing should have been sorted out. And the
good thing is you got a mayor old gups to
do it. We'll put him forward.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
But I think.
Speaker 5 (25:09):
Realistically we're only a small area, and I think Wellington
is Wellington. You know, Wellington's the ones that pays the
rates for the library, Wellington residents, we all get benefits
from those sorts of things. We've got the stadium, the
new events center. It just seems to me we're not
a really big area to have so many councils, and
(25:32):
we might get more direction if we all came together.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
I agree. I've been pushing it for a while. Government
procurement now, this is something that you would directly be
involved with. Malcolm Government's proposing change to procurement rules for
government contracts to prioritize key we businesses. Now. I love
this idea, do you.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (25:51):
I think it goes by local. It's the same thing.
I mean, you know, support the industries and the local
businesses or New Zealand businesses. I mean they're the ones
we want extra employment, you know, we want more tax Yeah, yeah,
Luke your idea.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
Yeah, yes, I think for me it's a yes.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
But so it's sort of but if it's going to
cost it twice as much to build transmission guning and
a Chinese company.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Yeah, devil's in the detail, right, So as so long
as we're buying things of a similar quality, if we're
paying a bit more, fine, and obviously don't want to
be paying more for lower quality stuff. But there's so
many benefits in building an industry here, encouraging people to
invest and make things here. And it's not just economic,
it's you know, environmental. We're not necessarily shipping things in
(26:37):
if it's actually physical stuff and talent. You develop way
more talent here if we're investing in local businesses.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
I listened to a guy interview on Q and A
once who was in charge of the tunnel in Auckland, right.
He was the guy that was putting the whole thing.
He's now gone to work it for an Irish company.
He said. The thing that we've got wrong in New Zealand,
every big development we do, we have to start again
because they go and then we start again. If we
had one big organization that went from Auckland Tunnel to
(27:04):
the new Mount Victoria Tunnel to the Coss the new
motorway that goes from Betoni to Transmission Gully, they can
just move. Why wouldn't we not do that? The old
Ministry of Works Ministry works. That's exactly what it was.
Quick one before we go to a break. Briscoe's managing
director Rod Luke. Rod Duke Australian. I learned this week
(27:27):
last week that he's not in New Zealander, but he's
lived here forever. Needs thinks that the government needs to
get their arson to get and actually do something. Malcolm,
what do you think when you heard this comment from
one of New Zealand's most successful business people.
Speaker 5 (27:41):
Well, I've got a lot of respect for them, just
the industry that I'm in. I think they are doing
the right things at the moment with the fast track systems.
I don't know that they can do a lot more.
They're looking at the infrastructure funding and sort of so
the things I'm dealing with, I think they are doing
the best they can do.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
You feel confident with them?
Speaker 5 (28:04):
I feel confident.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
It took a long time for no.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
I feel confident the direction they're taking, I really do.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Do it, Luke, what do you think?
Speaker 4 (28:14):
I think? I think they they're sort of transitioning from
all this talk negative talk about the mess they've inherited,
and they need to start talking more positive. They're doing
that to an extent. We can talk ourselves into a recession,
we can talk ourselves out of one. But I think
they need to do something bold. So, you know, from
my perspective as a you know, with a tech background
involved in technology businesses, what if we did the same
(28:34):
thing for the tech industry as we did for the
film industry. You know, proper tax incentives, a better visas,
co investment education is some sort of reverse brain drain campaign.
We're effectively going and finding the best talent from overseas
and incentivizing them to come to New Zealand and bringing
in capital. The biggest problem we have in the tech industry,
(28:55):
or people keep telling me about, is we starved of capital.
We need investment for it.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
The interesting thing, have you heard the news this morning
on news talks there be that our gaming is nearly
at a million dollar industry, which is coming from nowhere.
The world's gaming industry are going up by two percent.
Ours is up by about twelve or fifteen percent. Is
that something that we're missing the beat on. We're so
big on movies and you know we're to and all
that stuff, all that talk, but are we missing a
beat on that?
Speaker 4 (29:19):
Ll We had emmapropter and for the first Vision for
Wellington event with James Cameron, and I think it's the
film and music industry globally combined is smaller than gaming.
So it's no surprise that that's growing here. What's interesting
is that they're just all doing that by themselves. There's
no support, nobody knows about it. They're just doing it.
So imagine if we did focus on it, what could
(29:40):
we achieve?
Speaker 3 (29:41):
And I believe there's a Wellington company doing it that
employs three hundred people. I mean, you just wouldn't even.
You know, we're not even. We don't know about it
because why they do it for themselves by themselves, no
one around. But okay, come on, Malcolm Gilly, step up
to the plate. You've said to the office at Upperhart
that you're going to pick up this really special friend.
You're going to spend the day with them. Don't call
(30:03):
me on my cell phone. I'm taking them out somewhere special.
What are you going to do with that person? I'd
have to take them to Upper Hut, of course you would.
It's good.
Speaker 5 (30:11):
I'd take them around n zc Ice, show them all
the facility. Hopefully there'll be the all Blacks there, all
the Hurricanes, and they're possibly out to brut Town and
maybe to Daytona, the entertainment park on the go karts,
maybe a bit of ice skating, trampoline park and then
(30:33):
go and try some of the bears and the bars.
So by that stage it'd probably be time to take
them back into town.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
There you go, how's that for a day out? A
trip to Upper Heat and you know what, you'd almost
laugh ten years ago you'd laugh about a trip to
Upper ut but now you know, it's like an event.
Speaker 5 (30:52):
Well, we're getting people from all over the region and
when we track the spend and it's interesting to see
where the people are actually coming from, so where it's
regionally and it's right throughout New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Good on you, well done you okay, Luke? Someone really special?
Speaker 4 (31:07):
All right, Well, I'm obviously going to want to spend
time with that person, talking to them and catching up.
So I'm going to do my four favorite things. Take
them from the airport, drive them around the bays in
the eastern suburbs, stop for a dopio at Scoolturama. Then
I'm going to keep going and drive around or intol Bay,
show them the city is still just as beautiful as
(31:28):
it ever was.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Can I just ask you what adoppio is.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Adopio is a long black but with about half as
much water. It's a double espresso. It's one of the
only places in Wellington that actually makes one.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
After only just meeting you for the first time, I
could understand that that's you because you look like you
had b before you start too there you carry on sorry.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
So now I keep going I'd have lunch at Prefab Yep,
it's you know, great, bustling, brilliant atmosphere, and then I'd
end the day with a pint or two or maybe
three garage project in RABELI.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Well, that sounds like a pretty cool sort of day
for both of you. I'd like to come out with
both of you for those days. I just take this
opportunity to thank you both because you are two great
Wellingtonians and to spend some time with you for me
was a highlight. So to finally meet you, Luke. I
have met Malcolm before, many many many years ago. I
have been an admirer of what you've done for Upper
(32:21):
Hut and for Wellington and for New Zealand. Because I
don't think we should label you as Upper Hut. I
think we should label you as New Zealand because there
is no facilities in New Zealand like what you've created.
So you and Kevin Melbourn, who I know reasonably well,
have done an amazing, amazing job and I want to
take this opportunity on my personal self to say thank
(32:41):
you for what you've done.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Luke.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
You've done extremely well and what you've done as well,
and I'm proud to spend some time with you, and
I hope that everything works out for what your group
and vision. You know, I call you the Shardney Club,
and I'm not going to call you that behind your back,
but I call it to your face. You know you're
the Shardney Club of Wellington, but you actually are doing
something about it, which I commend. And I only wish
(33:05):
that you had not turned down the opportunity to run
for me, because I think you would have been a
fabulous mayor.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Very kind of you. Thanks for having us on.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
All right, great enjoy your trip out and Malcolm, it
didn't take as long as you thought it was going
to take, doesn't it. Malcolm's have moved and shake Er
say you want to get it out of ten minutes.
I said, no, you're here for an hour and he
didn't like that at the pagetting, but he's all right.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Thanks for more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen
live to news Talks It'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.