March 25, 2025 • 8 mins
Wellington Central MP and Green Party police spokesperson Tamatha Paul is under fire for comments she made about beat cops at a 'radical alternative to policing event' in Christchurch.
She claimed "Wellington people do not want to see police officers everywhere" and all beat police do is "wait for homeless people to leave their spot, pack up their stuff and throw it in the bin".
The MP joined Nick Mills to discuss her comments, as well as react to new proposed electorate boundaries which will see changes to her Wellington Central seat.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks AB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Joining us now is Wellington Central MP and Green Party
police spokesperson Tamotha Paul.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Good morning, Tampatha morning that how's it going good?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Thank you? How are you doing?
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I'm good?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Thank you, you said, and I quote Wellington people do
not want to see police officers everywhere where? Are you
getting this from ots?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Comments came from a number of conversations I've had with
people in Wellington who are concerned that beat patrol police
officers are taking away from core things that they should
be responding to, like domestic violence call outs, sexual violence callouts,
and trading that off for a more visible presence of police.
And I don't think that that is what people want
(00:55):
from police.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
We're hearing from retailers right around the country that do
have beat police that their staff are feeling far more secure,
comfortable about going to their work. The anxiety levels a drop.
Does that not concern you?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
I think it's reasonable to want to address the drivers
of crime rather than having police officers at the bottom
of the cliff responding to those drivers of crime. We
know what those are and it's more poverty in our communities,
more drug use than our communities, and greater mental health need.
That is what drives crime. If we can attack those
(01:32):
drivers and focus our resources there, then there isn't going
to be a need for BET patrols in the first place.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
But they're there to protect the vulnerable. Isn't that what
police are supposed to be doing.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
But if we can have safer communities in the first place,
then they wouldn't be needed. And that's my argument, is
that we have significant resources going into having BET patrols,
whereas we should be putting significant resources into bringing and
uplifting our communities out of poverty. We're trying to have
better mental health services and make sure that people aren't
(02:06):
the coming addicted to drugs because their reality is so miserable, Thomas,
that you.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Want to get rid of police. You want to do
all the things that you say, and no one's going
to disagree with you, with the drugs and the crime
and all that. No one's going to disagree with you,
But you want to also get rid of half the
police that actually prevent or try and prevent that stuff
from happening.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
That's not true, Nick. What I want to do is
make sure that the police, when they're discharging the enormous
amount of power and discretion that they have, that they're
doing it where it is needed. There is an enormous need.
We know that violence in families and sexual violence is
rampant in our country. Is it such a crime to
say that is where the resource should be focused as
(02:48):
opposed to having a visual presence. And some of the
complaints that I have received is that beat patrol officers
wait for people and hunt people to leave their spots,
have up this stuff and throw it in bins. Now,
I've heard that from the Salvation Army and from DCM.
Those are two credible community organizations that look after our street.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
To me, have you, Tamitha, have you ever seen that
happen yourself? Because I spend a lot of time on
those streets, as you know, and I have never ever
seen that.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
I have absolutely seen the patrol offices around Wellington City
and those are the complaints that my community have passed
on to me, and my job as the representative for
Wellington Central is to escalate those issues so that they
can be solved, because I think we can all agree
that police have far more important business to be doing
than to be oppressing a group of people who are
(03:36):
already marginalized, already having it the worst.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Have you spoken to the CBD businesses that have got
the advantage of having police patrols around. Have you actually
spoken to them.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
I constantly speak to businesses and Nick, that's my job
to be in touch with what the community want. I
also talk to the residents that walk around town, who
go through town to get to work and all of
those different things, and they say it makes them feel
less safe because there is that visual presence that's telling
them that they might not be safe. And so there's
a number of different ways we can have eyes on
(04:07):
the streets. There are our Maori wardens, there are Pacific wardens,
there are our halfye Ike which is the Wellington City
Council people that walk around and just make sure that
everybody is safe. There are lots of different ways that
our communities can be safer that doesn't rely on police officers.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
What about the fact that we have actually seen crime
and the CBDs that have got beat police on them dropping,
what do you say to that.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
I say that that's probably because of an investment in
safety initiatives as well. There is a significant amount of
work happening to make our community safer, and that's a
good thing. That's a really good thing. And the result
of that will be that there won't be a need
for beat police, which I'm sure most people can agree on,
so that they can focus on their core business.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I'm sorry, Tamitha, but I'm shaking my head here a bit,
because you know, we do business panels on the show.
I talked to business people all the time and I
walk the streets and they think the greatest initiative that
they have seen in Wellington in the last five years
is just straight down beat police. Everybody wants beat police
on the streets again.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
And where do you think that crime is going. Do
you think it just magically stops. No, No, it gets
it moves the issue. And that is the problem that
I'm saying. If you increase the police presence in one location,
it simply moves it elsewhere, which means that people in
our neighborhoods and suburbs who also deserve to feel safe
do not get the resource that they need. It means
that a woman who is in an abusive relationship, who
(05:33):
is calling the police and trying to get a call
out I'm not able to because their resources are fronk
to somebody else, and that is an issue.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
What about trying to get all the nonviolent people out
of jail? Do you really think that's a good idea.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
The non violent people out of prison. Yeah, So my
main point on that NIKA costs one hundred and fifty
one thousand dollars to put somebody in prison. There are
a lot of people who are in prison for non violent,
non serious crimes. I think it's a huge waste of
taxpayers money to be incarcerating people for that reason.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Do you actually think it's the majority you said it
was the majority of people.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Is I've been in ten different prisons over the last year.
I have spoken to the offices in the prisons, and
I have spoken to the people who are in there.
Many are in there because of poverty, and that is
the theme this morning, that there are people who have
to steal because they cannot feed themselves. If we actually
(06:30):
address poverty and made sure people had libable incomes and
could pay their rent and feed themselves, we would not
have so many people interacting with our criminal justice system.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
So you believed, Can I just ask you this question,
do you actually believe it's just the poor that commit crimes.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
No, but if you look at the population within our prisons,
you will find that a lot of people in there
are from the most impoverished communities. I met a woman
who was in prison for shoplifting twelve dollars worth of
items nick she was trying to feed herself. I've met
people who are in prison simply because they do not
have a bail address, because they are homeless. That is
(07:09):
the situation on the ground, and I've been in there
and I have spoken to them. That is why I
am talking about these issues, because they are massive. They
come at a massive cost to you and ize taxpayers
dollars and is not a sustainable response and it does
not make our communities any safer. And that is what
I'm most interested in all I've ever been interested in.
(07:30):
And you know that as well.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Just quickly, before I let you go, and thanks for
taking thanks for taking the opportunity to talk to us.
I want to put that out there because you know
it is good of you to take your time out
of your busy schedule to talk to us and be
upfront about it, and I respect that. Just quickly, there's
been some boundary changes in Wellington. You've lost Mount Cook
and Brooklyn, but will pick up Candata and Waitstown. There
be a lot of people scratching their heads in Candata
(07:53):
waits down this morning will make your seat but more
harder to get through. Is it going to change things
for you?
Speaker 3 (08:01):
I'm used to on Wellington City Council. We have to
represent the whole city, so it just means I'm focusing
more energy out there and giving it everything i've got
as usual. So yeah, it sets up a different population
for me to appeal to. But I'm looking forward to
the challenge.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Tabitha. Great to talk to you. I really like you
as a person. I got to put it out there.
I really like you.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
As a person.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Do I agree with you? I'm sorry I don't. We
wouldn't make a good coffee partnership, but I respect the
fact that you are who you are and you front
and I'll put it out there. I'll get a lot
of people haters on me, but I'll put it out there.
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Thanks Nick, much appreciated.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Thanks for joining us. Tamatha Paul there one is the
central MP of Police spokesman. You can't not like Tabitha
Paul can you. I mean, you might not agree with
anything she says. I don't agree with anything she says,
but she's got something about it.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd Be Wellington from nine am wee days,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks AB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Joining us now is Wellington Central MP and Green Party
police spokesperson Tamotha Paul.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Good morning, Tampatha morning that how's it going good?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Thank you? How are you doing?
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I'm good?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Thank you, you said, and I quote Wellington people do
not want to see police officers everywhere where? Are you
getting this from ots?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Comments came from a number of conversations I've had with
people in Wellington who are concerned that beat patrol police
officers are taking away from core things that they should
be responding to, like domestic violence call outs, sexual violence callouts,
and trading that off for a more visible presence of police.
And I don't think that that is what people want
(00:55):
from police.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
We're hearing from retailers right around the country that do
have beat police that their staff are feeling far more secure,
comfortable about going to their work. The anxiety levels a drop.
Does that not concern you?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
I think it's reasonable to want to address the drivers
of crime rather than having police officers at the bottom
of the cliff responding to those drivers of crime. We
know what those are and it's more poverty in our communities,
more drug use than our communities, and greater mental health need.
That is what drives crime. If we can attack those
(01:32):
drivers and focus our resources there, then there isn't going
to be a need for BET patrols in the first place.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
But they're there to protect the vulnerable. Isn't that what
police are supposed to be doing.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
But if we can have safer communities in the first place,
then they wouldn't be needed. And that's my argument, is
that we have significant resources going into having BET patrols,
whereas we should be putting significant resources into bringing and
uplifting our communities out of poverty. We're trying to have
better mental health services and make sure that people aren't
(02:06):
the coming addicted to drugs because their reality is so miserable, Thomas,
that you.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Want to get rid of police. You want to do
all the things that you say, and no one's going
to disagree with you, with the drugs and the crime
and all that. No one's going to disagree with you,
But you want to also get rid of half the
police that actually prevent or try and prevent that stuff
from happening.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
That's not true, Nick. What I want to do is
make sure that the police, when they're discharging the enormous
amount of power and discretion that they have, that they're
doing it where it is needed. There is an enormous need.
We know that violence in families and sexual violence is
rampant in our country. Is it such a crime to
say that is where the resource should be focused as
(02:48):
opposed to having a visual presence. And some of the
complaints that I have received is that beat patrol officers
wait for people and hunt people to leave their spots,
have up this stuff and throw it in bins. Now,
I've heard that from the Salvation Army and from DCM.
Those are two credible community organizations that look after our street.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
To me, have you, Tamitha, have you ever seen that
happen yourself? Because I spend a lot of time on
those streets, as you know, and I have never ever
seen that.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
I have absolutely seen the patrol offices around Wellington City
and those are the complaints that my community have passed
on to me, and my job as the representative for
Wellington Central is to escalate those issues so that they
can be solved, because I think we can all agree
that police have far more important business to be doing
than to be oppressing a group of people who are
(03:36):
already marginalized, already having it the worst.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Have you spoken to the CBD businesses that have got
the advantage of having police patrols around. Have you actually
spoken to them.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
I constantly speak to businesses and Nick, that's my job
to be in touch with what the community want. I
also talk to the residents that walk around town, who
go through town to get to work and all of
those different things, and they say it makes them feel
less safe because there is that visual presence that's telling
them that they might not be safe. And so there's
a number of different ways we can have eyes on
(04:07):
the streets. There are our Maori wardens, there are Pacific wardens,
there are our halfye Ike which is the Wellington City
Council people that walk around and just make sure that
everybody is safe. There are lots of different ways that
our communities can be safer that doesn't rely on police officers.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
What about the fact that we have actually seen crime
and the CBDs that have got beat police on them dropping,
what do you say to that.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
I say that that's probably because of an investment in
safety initiatives as well. There is a significant amount of
work happening to make our community safer, and that's a
good thing. That's a really good thing. And the result
of that will be that there won't be a need
for beat police, which I'm sure most people can agree on,
so that they can focus on their core business.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I'm sorry, Tamitha, but I'm shaking my head here a bit,
because you know, we do business panels on the show.
I talked to business people all the time and I
walk the streets and they think the greatest initiative that
they have seen in Wellington in the last five years
is just straight down beat police. Everybody wants beat police
on the streets again.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
And where do you think that crime is going. Do
you think it just magically stops. No, No, it gets
it moves the issue. And that is the problem that
I'm saying. If you increase the police presence in one location,
it simply moves it elsewhere, which means that people in
our neighborhoods and suburbs who also deserve to feel safe
do not get the resource that they need. It means
that a woman who is in an abusive relationship, who
(05:33):
is calling the police and trying to get a call
out I'm not able to because their resources are fronk
to somebody else, and that is an issue.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
What about trying to get all the nonviolent people out
of jail? Do you really think that's a good idea.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
The non violent people out of prison. Yeah, So my
main point on that NIKA costs one hundred and fifty
one thousand dollars to put somebody in prison. There are
a lot of people who are in prison for non violent,
non serious crimes. I think it's a huge waste of
taxpayers money to be incarcerating people for that reason.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Do you actually think it's the majority you said it
was the majority of people.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Is I've been in ten different prisons over the last year.
I have spoken to the offices in the prisons, and
I have spoken to the people who are in there.
Many are in there because of poverty, and that is
the theme this morning, that there are people who have
to steal because they cannot feed themselves. If we actually
(06:30):
address poverty and made sure people had libable incomes and
could pay their rent and feed themselves, we would not
have so many people interacting with our criminal justice system.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
So you believed, Can I just ask you this question,
do you actually believe it's just the poor that commit crimes.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
No, but if you look at the population within our prisons,
you will find that a lot of people in there
are from the most impoverished communities. I met a woman
who was in prison for shoplifting twelve dollars worth of
items nick she was trying to feed herself. I've met
people who are in prison simply because they do not
have a bail address, because they are homeless. That is
(07:09):
the situation on the ground, and I've been in there
and I have spoken to them. That is why I
am talking about these issues, because they are massive. They
come at a massive cost to you and ize taxpayers
dollars and is not a sustainable response and it does
not make our communities any safer. And that is what
I'm most interested in all I've ever been interested in.
(07:30):
And you know that as well.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Just quickly, before I let you go, and thanks for
taking thanks for taking the opportunity to talk to us.
I want to put that out there because you know
it is good of you to take your time out
of your busy schedule to talk to us and be
upfront about it, and I respect that. Just quickly, there's
been some boundary changes in Wellington. You've lost Mount Cook
and Brooklyn, but will pick up Candata and Waitstown. There
be a lot of people scratching their heads in Candata
(07:53):
waits down this morning will make your seat but more
harder to get through. Is it going to change things
for you?
Speaker 3 (08:01):
I'm used to on Wellington City Council. We have to
represent the whole city, so it just means I'm focusing
more energy out there and giving it everything i've got
as usual. So yeah, it sets up a different population
for me to appeal to. But I'm looking forward to
the challenge.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Tabitha. Great to talk to you. I really like you
as a person. I got to put it out there.
I really like you.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
As a person.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Do I agree with you? I'm sorry I don't. We
wouldn't make a good coffee partnership, but I respect the
fact that you are who you are and you front
and I'll put it out there. I'll get a lot
of people haters on me, but I'll put it out there.
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Thanks Nick, much appreciated.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Thanks for joining us. Tamatha Paul there one is the
central MP of Police spokesman. You can't not like Tabitha
Paul can you. I mean, you might not agree with
anything she says. I don't agree with anything she says,
but she's got something about it.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd Be Wellington from nine am wee days,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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