March 27, 2025 • 20 mins
Wellington Central MP and Green Party police spokesperson Tamatha Paul is under fire for saying Wellingtonians don't want to see police on the beat - and all these police patrols do is target homeless people and their belongings. Are these comments out of line?
Also, Wellington will likely lose an electorate seat in Parliament after the Electoral Commission proposed changes to electoral boundaries. What does this mean for representation for the capital?
To answer those questions, Labour's police spokesperson Ginny Andersen and National's Otaki MP Tim Costley joined Adam Cooper for Politics Thursday.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks ed B focusing in on the issues
that matter Politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings News Talks ed
Byle's Shine Can You Make You Decision?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Seven past eleven News Talks It be Wellington Mornings Adam
Cooper and for Nick Today Politics Thursday. Yeah, Nicks away,
but we're keeping with the usual segment we have on
a Thursday, and two of the MP's based in our
region are with us Labour's police spokesperson Jenny Anderson and
National's O Tucky MP Tim Costly. Morning to you guys,
(00:52):
Good morning sir. Good to have you mon. Yeah, good
to have you both with us, and I must say
I was quite excited to have you both in. Yeah,
you're always make an effort for Nick and often see
you both in the studio. But a fill and host
and you can find to Parliament.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Hey, what's going on outrageous Tuesday.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
We're in here till for a while. A few hours
to go yet?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, okay, well I know my place, No, my place
and somehow's our Zibi studio there and they're in Parliament
looking mate.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yep, look it's it's it's a back to basics approach
and we love that. But it's effective, so let's crack on.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I like it very good. We're looking forward to have
you having you both, and we've got a flash new
studio here on on Tory Street. So next time we're
next back, it'll be here for you.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I want to start this morning with well a topic
that went nuts on this show with Nick yesterday, Tamotha Paul,
the Wellington Central MP, making some pretty up there comments
at a event that was called a Radical Alternative to Policing,
and her words were, Wellington people do not want to
(01:54):
see police offices everywhere and all beat police dos quote
wait for homeless people to leave their spot, pack up
their stuff and throw it in the bin. Ginny will
start with you. Do you agree with any of those comments?
The Wellington Central MP.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Oh, I was asked up front, so I think yesterday morning,
since a long time ago on Mike Corostkings show yesterday,
and you know I was before anyone. It's anything. I
gave my view then, which was I don't support that view.
And further to that, I think your statement was without
a touch. I really don't think that responsible members of
(02:30):
Parliament should be undermining the police. They go out and
do a job yvery single day that puts their own
lives on the line, and I think most New Zealanders
feel incredibly grateful for the brave and amazing as they
do for our community every day.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Adam Otaki has the extra police on the beat been
a success.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Look, it's a success everywhere across the country and we're seeing,
you know, crime come down as a result. But look,
these are absolutely outrageous comments. It's just another one and
a string of comments we've heard from Tamatha and other
Green mpeas, things like saying kiwis feel safer with the
patch gang member than with the police officer. It is
absolutely out of touch. It's absolutely wrong and it's great
(03:14):
to hear Labor condemning it. But Labor have been walking
in lockstep with Greens the whole way. They voted against
everything that we've put up to tackle some of the
law and order issues we inherited in this country. They
voted against gang patch bands, they've voted against fortection, foreign
protection orders, they've voted against three strikes. They have voted
with Labor on every single piece of legislation. And it's
(03:37):
great to hear them say the right thing now, but
they're not doing the right thing. What they need to
do is now come out and say, actually they will
support our legislation that we've put through now to tackle
crime and actually back police and give them the tools
to do the job.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, So, Jinny has been police been been the right
option for our areas.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Labor's actually put more resource into the police than what
National done. They've cut two hundred staff, They've cut the
police budget, so there was least funding going into the
police than there was under us when we were in government.
What we have seen I think that Tim just mentioned
that crime has come down, Well you would have seen
on the news last night that net use in New
(04:18):
Zealand is up ninety six percent, ninety six percent increase
under dis government. Gang numbers are up. They have increased
by six hundred under this government.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
So we want, well, if that's such a bad thing,
will Jenny come out now and say actually she supports
our anti gang legislation.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
She finished, Please Tim, please let me finish. What we
are saying is that none of their measures break the
cycle of crime. They look tough, but if you're serious
about really getting on top of crime in New Zealand
ninety six percent increase of nethanphetamine. What do gang patches
do to reduce the high levels of organized crime pumping
(04:57):
dangerous drugs into our communities? And they simply have no
plan and no answer for.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
That, Jenny, do you does Labor have a problem? Is
potentially needing to go into a coalition with the Greens
next year if these are some of the views that
some of their main MPs and big electorates are holding.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
We always have good negotiations and that's one of the
things done when getting into government, but those those negotiations
are always tense, and we see that play out not
just on the left but also on the right. I mean,
you've got Mike Mitchell saying that the Firearms Registry is
staying in police and Nicle McKee has just pass legislation
to take it out of police, which will make me
dealing their safe. So there are big issues right across
(05:39):
the spectrum in terms of how parties make agreements.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
So what would your advice? Yeah, so you go toim.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah, let me jump in on that, because I think
this is really important. All of a sudden, Jenny's crime
crocodile tear is about one to get tough on crime,
tough on gangs, and yet at every single step along
the way, they and the Greens together have voted against it.
The Greens into Party Mari, who they would need to
form a coalition with if they were, you know, to
come back in government one day both to abolish presents
(06:07):
in New Zealand a Labour going to agree with that.
They've certainly voted against all the legislation that would.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Be absolutely not We've said that very but yeah, they.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Vote against three strikes. They've voted against all our work
to target gangs, to target serious and violent crime, and
we see serious and violent crime is on the decrease.
These are good things. This is where actually we could
work across the house. Labour could come out no, no, no
want you wanted to finish before all finish, now finish.
We're all finished now. So Labour could actually come out
(06:37):
now and support this and say, do you know what,
maybe we didn't think it was going to work, but
the gang patch ban is working. Yep, we'll support that now.
Maybe we didn't think given police tools like fire, our
protection orders and powers to disperse was going to work.
But they are working. Let's come out and back them. Now,
let's work together and let's agree that gangs are a problem.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Jenny, I do want to know that the issue here
is the bag cops. Do you think this has worked?
This initiative has worked.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Well, they've taken police out of for Auckland for example,
They've taken police out of those arounding areas.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
And has it worked for the purposes.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Well, it's worked where the police are. But you've got
thirteen more police than when you started, and so there's
not enough police in New Zealand right now. You haven't
funded the police adequately to be able to do their job.
We will always fund police. But the problem you have
is that while you've been game patches, you have six
hundred more gang members in New Zealand since you started,
(07:31):
and you have ninety six percent higher use of meth
ensetamine in New Zealand. Business is booming for the gangs.
They are doing better than they've ever done before under
national and the prices.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
So support us and work against way cheaper.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
So come out and support us right, come out and
support what we're doing to work against them.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
Will you?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Will you do that? Now?
Speaker 4 (07:50):
It doesn't work. You want us to support the ideas
that you have the.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Game patch work. It has worked beautifully. Why won't you
just come out and say that's a good thing.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
More six hundred more gang members under your government and
you're trying to say that's a success.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
It's the meth usage and the gang numbers are it's
necessarily moving in the right direction. But that's another topic
for a different day. I think we'll move on politics Thursday.
Labour's police fokespersons Genny Anderson and National's Otucki MP Tim
Costly with us this morning. Right roadside drug testing announced
by the government yesterday. Legislation to introduce roadside drug testing
(08:23):
past in Parliament last night, National Act New Zealand First
and Labor voting in favor. There are some concerns around
I guess the level of impairment and what these tests
will do to people if they do have drugs in
their system. But are they impaired? Ginny, This was something
that Labor did try to do, so is National sort
of got one up on your hair.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Well? I think both are agreement on this. The hold
up has been the technology that's able to do what
we want it to do, and so we need a
system that reflects what the technology is able to pick up.
So the way it's currently the saliva test at roadside,
if you turn a positive, then you must do a
second positive and then you can be taken off the
(09:07):
road for a period of time while the lab test
is run to confirm that. If you run a positive
and then a negative, I think you get to go.
So it needs too positives and they steve we can.
It's a lot of detail and a lot of science,
but essentially it packs up drugs families. So npetamine would
pack up methmphetamine, it would potentially pack up NDMA, it
(09:29):
would potentially pick up ADHD medication, and there's been some
concern about that. And similarly with opioids, so opioids would
pack up heroin, but it might also pick up a
synthetic type of opioid such as tramadol, which has regularly
prescribed the pain. So these sorts of things are going
to play out in the courts when someone gets packed
up for one of these things, if they're on a
(09:51):
prescription drug, they will then need to go to court
to figure out whether in fact they should have been
driving or not.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Will it make the roads safer, though, do you think, Jenny,
I really.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Hope it does. You know, you hear reports of people
and you see instances of people who are not drinking
are using illicit drugs to mask that, and they should
not be on our roads. No one appeared should be
driving a vehicle. So I really hope that it helps
police to do their job even better to keep our
roads safe as possible from drivers who are taking illicit
(10:21):
substances as well as alcohol.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, and Tim there, I mean, there are, as Jenny's raised,
a lot of blurred lines so to speak around this,
and a lot of lot of issues and sort of
you know, things up in the air to be ironed out.
Are your confidence that at this very moment and the
planners for this app to have to be rolled in
by December, that everything the system is ready to deal
with with these concerns and these likely problems.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Yeah, I am. And this is a good step. It's
a logical step. Jenny's right. Some legislation was passed a
couple of years ago, but it was a bit flawed
and no progress was made since then. So this is
a really positive step to increase the safety on our roads.
I've heard the criticism and some of the debates from
parties like the Green saying, oh well what about people
that are taking medication that doctors prescribed, but often you
(11:09):
know those medications have a warning saying do not drive,
do not operate heavy machine. It's about FD not just
for the person taking medicational drugs, but actually for every
road user. This is a really good thing. It brings
us in line with what Australia are doing. And I'm
really confident in how this is going to be rolled
out tod he.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Where is the resourcing for this from police going to
be coming from or where should it be coming from,
because fifty thousand tests a year it's going to be
quite the task.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Well, we'll have to be additional funding and the police
budget to cover that extra time. There will also need
to be funding for ESR, which is the lab tests
that need to be done as well. So those are
things that need to be taken into account. But this
was all put in place under us I was the
Minister of Police when we were doing this in the
last stages of when we were in government to get
(11:58):
this right, so I it was quite a fascinating piece
of work to look at. But there are issues in
around things like CB. So people take medicinal cannabis, but
it's not the THHD, not the active ingredient. It's a
CBD and that can stay in your system for two
weeks or more, so there's no way you would be impaired.
(12:19):
But it's still tuning up in a chest. So those
sorts of situations that we need to be careful that
if people are legally prescribed something that isn't impairing their driving,
yet it's tuning up on a drug chest. We don't
quite know how that's going to work until we see
it play out.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yeah, Tim, what's your advice of one of your constituents
in the Otaki electorate next week knocks on your door
and says, hey, I take CBD oil, but I'm really
concerned about this new law coming into force affecting my
life and limiting my ability to drive. Well, what's what's
your advice to them? Going to be?
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Well, if someone doesn't understand the implication or the consequence
of taking any kind of medication, then they should go
and talk to their doctor about it. They are the
experts in this and find out what restrictions there are
about driving. You know, it's there's often the situation of
if in doubt, there is no doubt. So we want
(13:12):
every driver on our roads to be safe, to be
fit to drive. Alcohol and drugs are the biggest, the
number one contributor to fatal road crashes. We've got a
crack down on this, and talking about it isn't enough.
That's why we've actually passed legislation that works and that's
why we're actually implementing this and fifty thousand tests a
year is a great target to.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
There any concerns around this and the Bill of Rights.
That's obviously been a discussion point in the background that
I'm sure would have come across your desk as police minister.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Yeah, it was disappointing that the government didn't support imposing
a time limit on how long a driver can be
detained at the roadside. We thought like twenty minutes will
be fair so under the way that the Attorney General
raised some issues and concerns that people could be unnecessarily
detained on the side of the road. So that's still unclear.
(14:02):
There's no seat period of how long they can be
detained at roadside. I think that just to get back
to the other point too, it's the question of impairment,
because there will be people who are prescribed medications that
they're able to drive on but are potentially tuning up
in these tests. And so are those people now are
no longer allowed to drive And that's an unanswered question,
(14:22):
And particularly around things like ADHD medication, there'll be a
number of people who are currently being prescribed that and
so that's something where they'll probably have to go back
to their doctor and get a specific note or some
sort of ability and carry that with them in case
they're getting stopped and tested.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah, all right, we will watch the space with interest.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Electoral boundaries a few changes coming to our region of course.
Announced this week the Electoral Commission has proposed changes to
electorate boundaries in Wellington and of course the Otucky Mana
and Ohardio seats they'll be morphed into just two seats,
Kenna Peru and Carpetty Goodness meets a few changes for
you here. Otuki will be in the car party seat, behalf.
(15:04):
You're losing your friends from Livin So is this is
this a bit dicey for you now heading into next year?
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Like, I feel pretty confident heading into next year, but
it is. Look, look at a personal level, it's a
bit gutting to lose hard of Fenua. There is so
much starting, exciting thing stuff happening there. From the new
expressway we're building, the trains that are coming, the houses,
the jobs that growth, the opportunities, has a really exciting
story and I love working there. Of course I'll still
(15:30):
be the MP there up until the next election. But
at the same time, look, I live in cup Tee.
It's a great region all the way down right through
down to Whitby. Love that region and look at it
just as what it is. It's a numbers game for
the for the Electoral Commission when they do this, and
when the surveyor General he's just got to get blocks
of now seventy thousand people and and so this is
(15:51):
this is the way the way forth. So look, it's
not set by MPs. We just we just work with
with with what's there. But it's a region that I
love and I'm really passionate about and I hope I'll
continue to serve for a long time.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
What will be the biggest change you're going to have
to implement though, in terms of your focuses, ye will.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Look, I have really strong and deep connections right across
the Autacky Electric so Houda, Fina and Carpety, that new
bit which is the Palta Hanui ward of the Potteryo
Council area. I've got a number of friends there. There's
actually a lot of defense people that live around there.
You know, God appearance to our children, things like that.
So but it is just building up some of those
relationships and things at a local level always takes a
(16:30):
little bit of time. But look, I've I've got a
reputation for working really hard in the community where I
am now, and I'll look to continue that.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Up the road. And Jinny obviously Mana o'hardio. Where are
two labor you know, very well known and and sort
of long time labor MPs have been in multiple terms,
Barbara Edmonds and Greg O'Connor view of there, Ginny, and
you were in that area, who would you be choosing
at the next eleven election between Barbara and Greg.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna make a bit like that.
These big changes right across what hups out impacted as well,
So I'll be getting my head around what that means
for me for the next election. So in South I
lose a part of the top of the boundary which
did go into nine nine. We now lose part of
(17:16):
a Pony so a Poney School is now in Rimatucka.
And then I gained Newlands, which is used to be
part of Orhadio. So Newland's has got quite a lot
of housing up that way. And I stood in the
electorate back in twenty fourteen, so I know that area
pretty well. So that's that's a welcome edition and I
(17:36):
look forward to getting in there and meeting people. It's
got a great community center, it's got a temple, a mosque,
quite a few really good opportunities to get in there
and talk to some of the public servants. A lot
of public servants up that way who have done a
pretty tough time over the past twelve months.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
That's not quite the chatterm Islands, but it's still a
little bit odd for that to be sort of broad
in that area.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
That is a bit odd. But look, we don't get
to we don't really get to say much on that.
It's really done by population, and I think it reflects
the fact that it's been such an economic tune, particularly
for the Wellington area. We've had fourteen and ten percent
decreases in population for some of those seats, right, the
reflection of the job losses, the economy really spiraling downwards,
(18:22):
and so as a result of our economy retracting that
the seats have become smaller. In all this become part
of it.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's all your faults.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
We're not I think we know who's folded. Is that
the economy retracted and you're seeing a lot of growth.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
With pretty much that's okay, that's what happened.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Well, you might want to have a chat with the
mayor and a few local MP's about that, But.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
In public servants Nick Mallons agree.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
She touches on one of the biggest points, which is
that our economy retracted. It put New Zealand to a
really tough position. And that's, you know, we haven't talked
about today, but it's our number one focus is growing
that economy. We are seeing good early signs of growth.
We've got to keep working hard on that. As much
as Lauren Law comes in second. Actually number one is
getting that economy growing. We really focused on that. It
was great to see the Prime Minister in India resuming
(19:13):
those free trade deals last week. It's great to see
the investment summit the week before and the rim this week.
Is all about unlocking the growth potential, on letting us
us be the best we can all right, to be
part of it.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Well, we'll wrap this up. I just want to quick
good or bad losing a seat for Wellington overall in
these changes good or bad? Ginny, I think it's kind
of sad.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
I think look all how to use has been here
for a while, so I think it's a loss and
people feel attached to where they've voted. So yeah, I
think it's said for the Wellington region that our population
is retracted to the point that we love to see.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Tim.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Look, I'm on the fence. Every everyone in New Zealand
will be elected.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
There was two options.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Now we've got the same representation as everywhere else. Everyone
gets tweaked a bit.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
All right, All right, Well we'll leave it up in
the air. Thanks very much to both of you. Have
a great the rest of your week, and we can
really appreciate your time as always. Ginny Henderson and Tim
Costley with us on Politics Thursday this week. Goodness, meet
the boxing gloves around a little bit this week weren't they,
but made for entertaining listening this end. Appreciate Ginny and
Tim's time as regulars on the slot, and back again
(20:21):
next week when Nick will be back in the chair
for Politics Thursday.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks he'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks ed B focusing in on the issues
that matter Politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings News Talks ed
Byle's Shine Can You Make You Decision?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Seven past eleven News Talks It be Wellington Mornings Adam
Cooper and for Nick Today Politics Thursday. Yeah, Nicks away,
but we're keeping with the usual segment we have on
a Thursday, and two of the MP's based in our
region are with us Labour's police spokesperson Jenny Anderson and
National's O Tucky MP Tim Costly. Morning to you guys,
(00:52):
Good morning sir. Good to have you mon. Yeah, good
to have you both with us, and I must say
I was quite excited to have you both in. Yeah,
you're always make an effort for Nick and often see
you both in the studio. But a fill and host
and you can find to Parliament.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Hey, what's going on outrageous Tuesday.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
We're in here till for a while. A few hours
to go yet?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, okay, well I know my place, No, my place
and somehow's our Zibi studio there and they're in Parliament
looking mate.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yep, look it's it's it's a back to basics approach
and we love that. But it's effective, so let's crack on.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I like it very good. We're looking forward to have
you having you both, and we've got a flash new
studio here on on Tory Street. So next time we're
next back, it'll be here for you.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I want to start this morning with well a topic
that went nuts on this show with Nick yesterday, Tamotha Paul,
the Wellington Central MP, making some pretty up there comments
at a event that was called a Radical Alternative to Policing,
and her words were, Wellington people do not want to
(01:54):
see police offices everywhere and all beat police dos quote
wait for homeless people to leave their spot, pack up
their stuff and throw it in the bin. Ginny will
start with you. Do you agree with any of those comments?
The Wellington Central MP.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Oh, I was asked up front, so I think yesterday morning,
since a long time ago on Mike Corostkings show yesterday,
and you know I was before anyone. It's anything. I
gave my view then, which was I don't support that view.
And further to that, I think your statement was without
a touch. I really don't think that responsible members of
(02:30):
Parliament should be undermining the police. They go out and
do a job yvery single day that puts their own
lives on the line, and I think most New Zealanders
feel incredibly grateful for the brave and amazing as they
do for our community every day.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Adam Otaki has the extra police on the beat been
a success.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Look, it's a success everywhere across the country and we're seeing,
you know, crime come down as a result. But look,
these are absolutely outrageous comments. It's just another one and
a string of comments we've heard from Tamatha and other
Green mpeas, things like saying kiwis feel safer with the
patch gang member than with the police officer. It is
absolutely out of touch. It's absolutely wrong and it's great
(03:14):
to hear Labor condemning it. But Labor have been walking
in lockstep with Greens the whole way. They voted against
everything that we've put up to tackle some of the
law and order issues we inherited in this country. They
voted against gang patch bands, they've voted against fortection, foreign
protection orders, they've voted against three strikes. They have voted
with Labor on every single piece of legislation. And it's
(03:37):
great to hear them say the right thing now, but
they're not doing the right thing. What they need to
do is now come out and say, actually they will
support our legislation that we've put through now to tackle
crime and actually back police and give them the tools
to do the job.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, So, Jinny has been police been been the right
option for our areas.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Labor's actually put more resource into the police than what
National done. They've cut two hundred staff, They've cut the
police budget, so there was least funding going into the
police than there was under us when we were in government.
What we have seen I think that Tim just mentioned
that crime has come down, Well you would have seen
on the news last night that net use in New
(04:18):
Zealand is up ninety six percent, ninety six percent increase
under dis government. Gang numbers are up. They have increased
by six hundred under this government.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
So we want, well, if that's such a bad thing,
will Jenny come out now and say actually she supports
our anti gang legislation.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
She finished, Please Tim, please let me finish. What we
are saying is that none of their measures break the
cycle of crime. They look tough, but if you're serious
about really getting on top of crime in New Zealand
ninety six percent increase of nethanphetamine. What do gang patches
do to reduce the high levels of organized crime pumping
(04:57):
dangerous drugs into our communities? And they simply have no
plan and no answer for.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
That, Jenny, do you does Labor have a problem? Is
potentially needing to go into a coalition with the Greens
next year if these are some of the views that
some of their main MPs and big electorates are holding.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
We always have good negotiations and that's one of the
things done when getting into government, but those those negotiations
are always tense, and we see that play out not
just on the left but also on the right. I mean,
you've got Mike Mitchell saying that the Firearms Registry is
staying in police and Nicle McKee has just pass legislation
to take it out of police, which will make me
dealing their safe. So there are big issues right across
(05:39):
the spectrum in terms of how parties make agreements.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
So what would your advice? Yeah, so you go toim.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah, let me jump in on that, because I think
this is really important. All of a sudden, Jenny's crime
crocodile tear is about one to get tough on crime,
tough on gangs, and yet at every single step along
the way, they and the Greens together have voted against it.
The Greens into Party Mari, who they would need to
form a coalition with if they were, you know, to
come back in government one day both to abolish presents
(06:07):
in New Zealand a Labour going to agree with that.
They've certainly voted against all the legislation that would.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Be absolutely not We've said that very but yeah, they.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Vote against three strikes. They've voted against all our work
to target gangs, to target serious and violent crime, and
we see serious and violent crime is on the decrease.
These are good things. This is where actually we could
work across the house. Labour could come out no, no, no
want you wanted to finish before all finish, now finish.
We're all finished now. So Labour could actually come out
(06:37):
now and support this and say, do you know what,
maybe we didn't think it was going to work, but
the gang patch ban is working. Yep, we'll support that now.
Maybe we didn't think given police tools like fire, our
protection orders and powers to disperse was going to work.
But they are working. Let's come out and back them. Now,
let's work together and let's agree that gangs are a problem.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Jenny, I do want to know that the issue here
is the bag cops. Do you think this has worked?
This initiative has worked.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Well, they've taken police out of for Auckland for example,
They've taken police out of those arounding areas.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
And has it worked for the purposes.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Well, it's worked where the police are. But you've got
thirteen more police than when you started, and so there's
not enough police in New Zealand right now. You haven't
funded the police adequately to be able to do their job.
We will always fund police. But the problem you have
is that while you've been game patches, you have six
hundred more gang members in New Zealand since you started,
(07:31):
and you have ninety six percent higher use of meth
ensetamine in New Zealand. Business is booming for the gangs.
They are doing better than they've ever done before under
national and the prices.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
So support us and work against way cheaper.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
So come out and support us right, come out and
support what we're doing to work against them.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
Will you?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Will you do that? Now?
Speaker 4 (07:50):
It doesn't work. You want us to support the ideas
that you have the.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Game patch work. It has worked beautifully. Why won't you
just come out and say that's a good thing.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
More six hundred more gang members under your government and
you're trying to say that's a success.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
It's the meth usage and the gang numbers are it's
necessarily moving in the right direction. But that's another topic
for a different day. I think we'll move on politics Thursday.
Labour's police fokespersons Genny Anderson and National's Otucki MP Tim
Costly with us this morning. Right roadside drug testing announced
by the government yesterday. Legislation to introduce roadside drug testing
(08:23):
past in Parliament last night, National Act New Zealand First
and Labor voting in favor. There are some concerns around
I guess the level of impairment and what these tests
will do to people if they do have drugs in
their system. But are they impaired? Ginny, This was something
that Labor did try to do, so is National sort
of got one up on your hair.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Well? I think both are agreement on this. The hold
up has been the technology that's able to do what
we want it to do, and so we need a
system that reflects what the technology is able to pick up.
So the way it's currently the saliva test at roadside,
if you turn a positive, then you must do a
second positive and then you can be taken off the
(09:07):
road for a period of time while the lab test
is run to confirm that. If you run a positive
and then a negative, I think you get to go.
So it needs too positives and they steve we can.
It's a lot of detail and a lot of science,
but essentially it packs up drugs families. So npetamine would
pack up methmphetamine, it would potentially pack up NDMA, it
(09:29):
would potentially pick up ADHD medication, and there's been some
concern about that. And similarly with opioids, so opioids would
pack up heroin, but it might also pick up a
synthetic type of opioid such as tramadol, which has regularly
prescribed the pain. So these sorts of things are going
to play out in the courts when someone gets packed
up for one of these things, if they're on a
(09:51):
prescription drug, they will then need to go to court
to figure out whether in fact they should have been
driving or not.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Will it make the roads safer, though, do you think, Jenny,
I really.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Hope it does. You know, you hear reports of people
and you see instances of people who are not drinking
are using illicit drugs to mask that, and they should
not be on our roads. No one appeared should be
driving a vehicle. So I really hope that it helps
police to do their job even better to keep our
roads safe as possible from drivers who are taking illicit
(10:21):
substances as well as alcohol.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, and Tim there, I mean, there are, as Jenny's raised,
a lot of blurred lines so to speak around this,
and a lot of lot of issues and sort of
you know, things up in the air to be ironed out.
Are your confidence that at this very moment and the
planners for this app to have to be rolled in
by December, that everything the system is ready to deal
with with these concerns and these likely problems.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Yeah, I am. And this is a good step. It's
a logical step. Jenny's right. Some legislation was passed a
couple of years ago, but it was a bit flawed
and no progress was made since then. So this is
a really positive step to increase the safety on our roads.
I've heard the criticism and some of the debates from
parties like the Green saying, oh well what about people
that are taking medication that doctors prescribed, but often you
(11:09):
know those medications have a warning saying do not drive,
do not operate heavy machine. It's about FD not just
for the person taking medicational drugs, but actually for every
road user. This is a really good thing. It brings
us in line with what Australia are doing. And I'm
really confident in how this is going to be rolled
out tod he.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Where is the resourcing for this from police going to
be coming from or where should it be coming from,
because fifty thousand tests a year it's going to be
quite the task.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Well, we'll have to be additional funding and the police
budget to cover that extra time. There will also need
to be funding for ESR, which is the lab tests
that need to be done as well. So those are
things that need to be taken into account. But this
was all put in place under us I was the
Minister of Police when we were doing this in the
last stages of when we were in government to get
(11:58):
this right, so I it was quite a fascinating piece
of work to look at. But there are issues in
around things like CB. So people take medicinal cannabis, but
it's not the THHD, not the active ingredient. It's a
CBD and that can stay in your system for two
weeks or more, so there's no way you would be impaired.
(12:19):
But it's still tuning up in a chest. So those
sorts of situations that we need to be careful that
if people are legally prescribed something that isn't impairing their driving,
yet it's tuning up on a drug chest. We don't
quite know how that's going to work until we see
it play out.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yeah, Tim, what's your advice of one of your constituents
in the Otaki electorate next week knocks on your door
and says, hey, I take CBD oil, but I'm really
concerned about this new law coming into force affecting my
life and limiting my ability to drive. Well, what's what's
your advice to them? Going to be?
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Well, if someone doesn't understand the implication or the consequence
of taking any kind of medication, then they should go
and talk to their doctor about it. They are the
experts in this and find out what restrictions there are
about driving. You know, it's there's often the situation of
if in doubt, there is no doubt. So we want
(13:12):
every driver on our roads to be safe, to be
fit to drive. Alcohol and drugs are the biggest, the
number one contributor to fatal road crashes. We've got a
crack down on this, and talking about it isn't enough.
That's why we've actually passed legislation that works and that's
why we're actually implementing this and fifty thousand tests a
year is a great target to.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
There any concerns around this and the Bill of Rights.
That's obviously been a discussion point in the background that
I'm sure would have come across your desk as police minister.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Yeah, it was disappointing that the government didn't support imposing
a time limit on how long a driver can be
detained at the roadside. We thought like twenty minutes will
be fair so under the way that the Attorney General
raised some issues and concerns that people could be unnecessarily
detained on the side of the road. So that's still unclear.
(14:02):
There's no seat period of how long they can be
detained at roadside. I think that just to get back
to the other point too, it's the question of impairment,
because there will be people who are prescribed medications that
they're able to drive on but are potentially tuning up
in these tests. And so are those people now are
no longer allowed to drive And that's an unanswered question,
(14:22):
And particularly around things like ADHD medication, there'll be a
number of people who are currently being prescribed that and
so that's something where they'll probably have to go back
to their doctor and get a specific note or some
sort of ability and carry that with them in case
they're getting stopped and tested.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah, all right, we will watch the space with interest.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Electoral boundaries a few changes coming to our region of course.
Announced this week the Electoral Commission has proposed changes to
electorate boundaries in Wellington and of course the Otucky Mana
and Ohardio seats they'll be morphed into just two seats,
Kenna Peru and Carpetty Goodness meets a few changes for
you here. Otuki will be in the car party seat, behalf.
(15:04):
You're losing your friends from Livin So is this is
this a bit dicey for you now heading into next year?
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Like, I feel pretty confident heading into next year, but
it is. Look, look at a personal level, it's a
bit gutting to lose hard of Fenua. There is so
much starting, exciting thing stuff happening there. From the new
expressway we're building, the trains that are coming, the houses,
the jobs that growth, the opportunities, has a really exciting
story and I love working there. Of course I'll still
(15:30):
be the MP there up until the next election. But
at the same time, look, I live in cup Tee.
It's a great region all the way down right through
down to Whitby. Love that region and look at it
just as what it is. It's a numbers game for
the for the Electoral Commission when they do this, and
when the surveyor General he's just got to get blocks
of now seventy thousand people and and so this is
(15:51):
this is the way the way forth. So look, it's
not set by MPs. We just we just work with
with with what's there. But it's a region that I
love and I'm really passionate about and I hope I'll
continue to serve for a long time.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
What will be the biggest change you're going to have
to implement though, in terms of your focuses, ye will.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Look, I have really strong and deep connections right across
the Autacky Electric so Houda, Fina and Carpety, that new
bit which is the Palta Hanui ward of the Potteryo
Council area. I've got a number of friends there. There's
actually a lot of defense people that live around there.
You know, God appearance to our children, things like that.
So but it is just building up some of those
relationships and things at a local level always takes a
(16:30):
little bit of time. But look, I've I've got a
reputation for working really hard in the community where I
am now, and I'll look to continue that.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Up the road. And Jinny obviously Mana o'hardio. Where are
two labor you know, very well known and and sort
of long time labor MPs have been in multiple terms,
Barbara Edmonds and Greg O'Connor view of there, Ginny, and
you were in that area, who would you be choosing
at the next eleven election between Barbara and Greg.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna make a bit like that.
These big changes right across what hups out impacted as well,
So I'll be getting my head around what that means
for me for the next election. So in South I
lose a part of the top of the boundary which
did go into nine nine. We now lose part of
(17:16):
a Pony so a Poney School is now in Rimatucka.
And then I gained Newlands, which is used to be
part of Orhadio. So Newland's has got quite a lot
of housing up that way. And I stood in the
electorate back in twenty fourteen, so I know that area
pretty well. So that's that's a welcome edition and I
(17:36):
look forward to getting in there and meeting people. It's
got a great community center, it's got a temple, a mosque,
quite a few really good opportunities to get in there
and talk to some of the public servants. A lot
of public servants up that way who have done a
pretty tough time over the past twelve months.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
That's not quite the chatterm Islands, but it's still a
little bit odd for that to be sort of broad
in that area.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
That is a bit odd. But look, we don't get
to we don't really get to say much on that.
It's really done by population, and I think it reflects
the fact that it's been such an economic tune, particularly
for the Wellington area. We've had fourteen and ten percent
decreases in population for some of those seats, right, the
reflection of the job losses, the economy really spiraling downwards,
(18:22):
and so as a result of our economy retracting that
the seats have become smaller. In all this become part
of it.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's all your faults.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
We're not I think we know who's folded. Is that
the economy retracted and you're seeing a lot of growth.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
With pretty much that's okay, that's what happened.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Well, you might want to have a chat with the
mayor and a few local MP's about that, But.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
In public servants Nick Mallons agree.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
She touches on one of the biggest points, which is
that our economy retracted. It put New Zealand to a
really tough position. And that's, you know, we haven't talked
about today, but it's our number one focus is growing
that economy. We are seeing good early signs of growth.
We've got to keep working hard on that. As much
as Lauren Law comes in second. Actually number one is
getting that economy growing. We really focused on that. It
was great to see the Prime Minister in India resuming
(19:13):
those free trade deals last week. It's great to see
the investment summit the week before and the rim this week.
Is all about unlocking the growth potential, on letting us
us be the best we can all right, to be
part of it.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Well, we'll wrap this up. I just want to quick
good or bad losing a seat for Wellington overall in
these changes good or bad? Ginny, I think it's kind
of sad.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
I think look all how to use has been here
for a while, so I think it's a loss and
people feel attached to where they've voted. So yeah, I
think it's said for the Wellington region that our population
is retracted to the point that we love to see.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Tim.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Look, I'm on the fence. Every everyone in New Zealand
will be elected.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
There was two options.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Now we've got the same representation as everywhere else. Everyone
gets tweaked a bit.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
All right, All right, Well we'll leave it up in
the air. Thanks very much to both of you. Have
a great the rest of your week, and we can
really appreciate your time as always. Ginny Henderson and Tim
Costley with us on Politics Thursday this week. Goodness, meet
the boxing gloves around a little bit this week weren't they,
but made for entertaining listening this end. Appreciate Ginny and
Tim's time as regulars on the slot, and back again
(20:21):
next week when Nick will be back in the chair
for Politics Thursday.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks he'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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