March 27, 2025 • 11 mins
Liam Lawson has unceremoniously been dropped from Red Bull's F1 team after just two races. How would this affect a 23-year-old like Lawson, and is the decision unfair?
Also, with Eden Park to be redeveloped and a roof installed, is it time we seriously looked at a roof for Sky Stadium?
Weekend Sport host Jason Pine and All Sport Breakfast host Adam Cooper joined Nick Mills for the Friday Sport Kickoff.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk, said B getting you said for your
sporting weekend, it's the Wellington Mornings Friday Sport Kickoff on
news Talk. S ed B.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Joining us for Friday sports Kickoff is news Talk, said
BES Weekend Sports hosts Jason pine Good morning, Piney, Good morning.
You sound like you're on Mars.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Are you there?
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Well, I don't quite have I don't quite have that capability,
but I'm here. I can hear you.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Okay, okay, we'll have to turn your system up a
little bit. I'll just do that right now. And all
Sports Breakfast hosts Adam Coop, Good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Coops neck. Do I sound on Earth or you sound
on Earth?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
You know I'm in the right seat of the wrong seat.
Coops did the show for us yesterday and did a
fantastic job, so it's good to be having back in
the studio. Quick question, do you both before we get
into Friday sports Piney, what would you thought? What would
your thoughts be if I said we absolutely needed a
roof over sky Stadium?
Speaker 3 (01:21):
What would you say?
Speaker 4 (01:23):
I'd say, you're twenty five years too late. Nick, I
think you know when it was built back in the
early part or the back end of the nineteen eighties
and opened in two thousand. You know, it was for
purpose then. Look, Yeah, of course we'd love to have
a roof on it. Now, we'd love it if it
was rectangular, you know, having an oval field for the
(01:44):
Hurricanes and the Phoenix to play on and the all
left when they play here at some you know, it's suboptimal. Yeah,
I'd love to tack a roof on it. If they
built it again today, it'll be rectangular, smaller with a roof.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Well smaller, I think bigger with the roof coops.
Speaker 5 (01:59):
I don't think they needed any bigger. I mean you
look at the events. If you look at the list
of events so we've had at the stadium in the
last two three years, I think the only sporting events
that have either sold out or come very close to
it would be All Blacks Tests and the Phoenix Big
semi Final last year. You know, the Hurricanes had multiple
home playoffs last year and not even that could draw
(02:19):
a crowd that was you know, close to the thirty
four and a half thousand capacity. So you do go
to some events sometimes and I must say you know,
I think the stadium is a great facility and it's
got everything you need and no one seems to leave,
you know, with an unhappy experience. But the crowd volumes
that we get for sporting events now are a lots
(02:40):
more than probably what they were when when the stadium
was designed, implemented and first opened in the early two
thousands there. So I don't think that I don't think
I mean, a roof could could be sold half a problem,
but I think the big problem is actually just getting
people along. I don't think a roof actually would make
people decide to come into a game per se. It's
it's everything about the experience getting there actually, you know,
(03:03):
leaving home and coming into town and getting off your button,
actually doing these things. I think that's the problem for crowds.
It's not whether there's a roof or not. We're not
We're not Christ Churcher's climate. We don't go to zero
or under zero through winter.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Well you tell that to the people in the middle
of the winter when they go down the Stateium. It's
pretty cold walking down there. But I totally respect your thoughts. So,
Liam Lawson, let's start with Liam Lawson, Piney, what did
you feel when you actually read the news that he
had been dropped?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
I mean, what was your first emotion?
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Well, I actually fell for him more than anything. You know,
he's been given an opportunity and been given absolutely no
support from Red Bull. Look, you won't convince me that
Yuki Sanoda is a better driver than Liam Lawson. You know,
he was put in there for a number of reasons,
one of which is his mental resilience and he's going
to need all of that now as he tries to
(03:51):
recover from this. In many ways, the pressure comes off
of it as he goes into the Racing Balls team.
But you know, you can't tell me that Ukis Sinoda
is going to be able to drive a car that
is specifically set up for Max, for staff and any
better than Liam Lawson. Can. I think it's an absolute
disgrace from Red Bull what they've done to Liam Lawson.
(04:11):
Two races, you know, two races on unfamiliar tracks, one
of which was in the pouring rain in Melbourne. It's
too small a sample size for his driving to be
accurately assessed. We're about to get to Japan, a track
he knows, and they've taken the keys off and it's
you know, it's utterly disgraceful and for me, you know,
(04:32):
Liam Lawson, I think you know, now we'll recuperate drive
well for racing balls. The car isn't as good as
the Red Bull car, but yeah, it paints Red Ball
for me in an absolutely terrible light.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Wow, Adam Cooper, I mean that's pretty staunched by Piney.
I mean, that's that's really putting the blame on Red
Bull for making a mistake.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
Well, yeah, and you know that they did the same thing,
you know last year when they were tinkering around and
it was almost the reverse with Liam Lawson getting that
that chance in Sonoda getting to voted. So this just
seems these guys have had issues with their car clearly,
and that's been documented even by by Max fist staff
and who's struggled with it. They just are such rash
reactions that they are delivering to these things. And I
(05:15):
do agree with Piney that two races which were you know,
under strange circumstances and things that you know are beyond
anyone's control. I believe that that can cost you a
poor performance. Have seen Liam Lawson been really cruelly dealt
this blow and the other part of me though, you know,
just from a professional sport point of view, this is
(05:36):
the top of the top. You know, the stakes are high,
the pressure on you is really high, but also the
importance to performers really high. And at the end of
the day, you know, you look back on the results
grid at the end of the year and all it
has is Liam Lawson's placings on that grid. You don't
know what the conditions were. You don't know that. And
it's a results based business and whether we like it
or not, that is what they've decided because they are
a professional sports outfit and they want to change immediately.
(05:57):
You know, you look at Damian McKenzie last year, a
couple of games and the number ten Jersey dropped, you know,
replaced by boat embarrassings business. It's high stakes stuff and
I think, you know, we have very right to feel disappointed,
as kiwis, for the nature in which this has happened.
But this is the top of the top. These are
the twenty best drivers in the world and and you
know you just have to perform from get go. I
(06:18):
just do just want to say that Liam Lawson in
the last hour or so has put out really humble, genuine,
and I think you know, very special post about this.
He's acknowledged that it's been a pretty tough time, but
he's sort of even taken the step back. He said,
look at these photos that I put up in these
pictures that I drew of myself at primary skill, of
me wanting to be a red Bull driver. This has
(06:40):
been my dream for so long. It hasn't gone the
way I planned, But thanking everyone for their support and
saying he's ready for the new challenge of being part
of this racing balls outfit. So he's dealt with that
as a complete and utter professional, and we've got to
give him credit for that too.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
You couldn't help.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Can I just can I just jump and on what
coops are saying there about being top of the top
and being elite?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Isn't that?
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Isn't that just? You know? The this is where we've
reached now, is that we in such a landscape of
instant gratification that we just have lost any ability to
be patient. Imagine if you opened a new venue and
after a couple of nights, you didn't get the tables
as full as you want, so you sack the chef,
things take time. You cannot simply say, okay, well he's
(07:24):
had a couple of races, he hasn't done the job.
We're dropping him. Mark Webber was on the radio with
me last week. In the first five years of his
Grand Prix career, he made the podium twice. In the
next five years he made the podium forty times. Four. Oh,
it takes time. Red Bull have absolutely no patients. I
know they're under pressure, but we've lost the ability across
(07:45):
a lot of elite sport to actually hover above things
and say it's gonna take a little bit of time.
Imagine if we've got rid of Graham Henry after the
two thousand and seven Rgby World Cup, we never would
have had twenty eleven. Hindsight's a wonderful thing. But but
now you know, managers are sacked having won. You know,
the same goes for Jian Carlo Ataliano. They're calling for
(08:06):
his head. Out at Wellington Phoenix a year ago, top
of the Pops I ever finished by Wellington Phoenix. Side this,
this drive for instant results is hurting players, drivers, coaches,
everybody associated with top sport because owners simply can't see
past past the end of next week.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I'm not looking in the mirror, Party, but I understand
what you're saying. I'm not looking at the mirror because
you know, it is a business. You know it's about
bums on seats, and you can't tell who They're not
going to sell more merchandise in Japan this weekend than with.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
You know that is that what red Bull's for to
sell merchandiz. People want to win Redburll want to win
Formula One races. But you look anyone who go anyone
who went into that seat, be it Liam Lawson, Yuki Sonoda,
anybody was going to be on a hiding to nothing,
so you have to give them leeway. Honestly, as I
(09:01):
said before, it is an utterly disgraceful decision by Red Bull.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Well party.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
I totally agree, totally supported. Lovely to hear you're so
damn passionate about it. I should have I should have
recorded that and played it to myself in the middle
of the night when I woke up and being concerned
about let's talk about the hurricanes tonight, because I'm a
little bit concerned. I think the Warratas are definitely beatable,
but coops, hurricanes, they're just not given me what I
(09:27):
want at the moment.
Speaker 5 (09:28):
No, they have struggled this year, haven't they. That's that's
the word. I think that's been a struggle. Injuries that
have been a problem, and I think the way that
the players that have been there and filling some of
those really important gaps have struggled just with with creating
everything from opportunities to finishes, to tackles to you know,
poor discipline, and there's been a multiple range of factors
that have cost the team this year. We can't just
(09:50):
blame the injuries. I don't think where there's there's a
you know, just they just haven't really I don't think
we're playing as a team too well. So I really
hope that the bye week has given them the chance
to sort of take stock look at some of those
new combinations that they have been forced to deal with
this season. You know, you've got the likes of a
suffer of More and Tyrol Lomax. Now, no are two
people that have they to change a season. Harry Godfrey
(10:10):
out which isn't great. So Riley Hohepper, who's been a
bit of a journeyman aged thirty, making his first Souper
rugby start for the Canes tonight, so yeah, we'll see
how that goes.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Piney really quickly, because I want to ask you about
the Phoenix games on on this weekend. But you wouldn't
actually pick a winner out of the Hurricanes and Wartars tonight,
would you? Oh?
Speaker 4 (10:28):
While while i'm you know, while I'm on four, i'd
say absolutely you can. Wartas haven't beaten the Hurricane since
twenty fifteen, and I don't see it's starting tonight.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Nick, Okay, what about the Phoenix quickly? Yes or no?
Can they win?
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Oh? Well, they're not favorite. I've just come back from
Phoenix HQ and the I've got about five injuries, so yeah,
I don't think they're favorite against Western Sydney tomorrow. Put
it that way.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Oh my god? What about the woman's time.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Playing top of the table Melbourne City, who haven't lost again?
You're up against it, but who knows?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
You're pretty good at don Pidy, Pidy, lovely to have
you on party. I'm looking forward to tomorrow. Hopefully you
get a good night's sleep tomorrow. I'm looking forward to
the show tomorrow. Adam Cooper, Jason Pine, thank you both
very much. I'll be listening to the coops in the
morning and Piney in the afternoon.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Oh, he was on fire.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
And hey, he was on fire, Jason Pin, I'd love
to hear him like that.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news Talks It'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk, said B getting you said for your
sporting weekend, it's the Wellington Mornings Friday Sport Kickoff on
news Talk. S ed B.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Joining us for Friday sports Kickoff is news Talk, said
BES Weekend Sports hosts Jason pine Good morning, Piney, Good morning.
You sound like you're on Mars.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Are you there?
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Well, I don't quite have I don't quite have that capability,
but I'm here. I can hear you.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Okay, okay, we'll have to turn your system up a
little bit. I'll just do that right now. And all
Sports Breakfast hosts Adam Coop, Good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Coops neck. Do I sound on Earth or you sound
on Earth?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
You know I'm in the right seat of the wrong seat.
Coops did the show for us yesterday and did a
fantastic job, so it's good to be having back in
the studio. Quick question, do you both before we get
into Friday sports Piney, what would you thought? What would
your thoughts be if I said we absolutely needed a
roof over sky Stadium?
Speaker 3 (01:21):
What would you say?
Speaker 4 (01:23):
I'd say, you're twenty five years too late. Nick, I
think you know when it was built back in the
early part or the back end of the nineteen eighties
and opened in two thousand. You know, it was for
purpose then. Look, Yeah, of course we'd love to have
a roof on it. Now, we'd love it if it
was rectangular, you know, having an oval field for the
(01:44):
Hurricanes and the Phoenix to play on and the all
left when they play here at some you know, it's suboptimal. Yeah,
I'd love to tack a roof on it. If they
built it again today, it'll be rectangular, smaller with a roof.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Well smaller, I think bigger with the roof coops.
Speaker 5 (01:59):
I don't think they needed any bigger. I mean you
look at the events. If you look at the list
of events so we've had at the stadium in the
last two three years, I think the only sporting events
that have either sold out or come very close to
it would be All Blacks Tests and the Phoenix Big
semi Final last year. You know, the Hurricanes had multiple
home playoffs last year and not even that could draw
(02:19):
a crowd that was you know, close to the thirty
four and a half thousand capacity. So you do go
to some events sometimes and I must say you know,
I think the stadium is a great facility and it's
got everything you need and no one seems to leave,
you know, with an unhappy experience. But the crowd volumes
that we get for sporting events now are a lots
(02:40):
more than probably what they were when when the stadium
was designed, implemented and first opened in the early two
thousands there. So I don't think that I don't think
I mean, a roof could could be sold half a problem,
but I think the big problem is actually just getting
people along. I don't think a roof actually would make
people decide to come into a game per se. It's
it's everything about the experience getting there actually, you know,
(03:03):
leaving home and coming into town and getting off your button,
actually doing these things. I think that's the problem for crowds.
It's not whether there's a roof or not. We're not
We're not Christ Churcher's climate. We don't go to zero
or under zero through winter.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Well you tell that to the people in the middle
of the winter when they go down the Stateium. It's
pretty cold walking down there. But I totally respect your thoughts. So,
Liam Lawson, let's start with Liam Lawson, Piney, what did
you feel when you actually read the news that he
had been dropped?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
I mean, what was your first emotion?
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Well, I actually fell for him more than anything. You know,
he's been given an opportunity and been given absolutely no
support from Red Bull. Look, you won't convince me that
Yuki Sanoda is a better driver than Liam Lawson. You know,
he was put in there for a number of reasons,
one of which is his mental resilience and he's going
to need all of that now as he tries to
(03:51):
recover from this. In many ways, the pressure comes off
of it as he goes into the Racing Balls team.
But you know, you can't tell me that Ukis Sinoda
is going to be able to drive a car that
is specifically set up for Max, for staff and any
better than Liam Lawson. Can. I think it's an absolute
disgrace from Red Bull what they've done to Liam Lawson.
(04:11):
Two races, you know, two races on unfamiliar tracks, one
of which was in the pouring rain in Melbourne. It's
too small a sample size for his driving to be
accurately assessed. We're about to get to Japan, a track
he knows, and they've taken the keys off and it's
you know, it's utterly disgraceful and for me, you know,
(04:32):
Liam Lawson, I think you know, now we'll recuperate drive
well for racing balls. The car isn't as good as
the Red Bull car, but yeah, it paints Red Ball
for me in an absolutely terrible light.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Wow, Adam Cooper, I mean that's pretty staunched by Piney.
I mean, that's that's really putting the blame on Red
Bull for making a mistake.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
Well, yeah, and you know that they did the same thing,
you know last year when they were tinkering around and
it was almost the reverse with Liam Lawson getting that
that chance in Sonoda getting to voted. So this just
seems these guys have had issues with their car clearly,
and that's been documented even by by Max fist staff
and who's struggled with it. They just are such rash
reactions that they are delivering to these things. And I
(05:15):
do agree with Piney that two races which were you know,
under strange circumstances and things that you know are beyond
anyone's control. I believe that that can cost you a
poor performance. Have seen Liam Lawson been really cruelly dealt
this blow and the other part of me though, you know,
just from a professional sport point of view, this is
(05:36):
the top of the top. You know, the stakes are high,
the pressure on you is really high, but also the
importance to performers really high. And at the end of
the day, you know, you look back on the results
grid at the end of the year and all it
has is Liam Lawson's placings on that grid. You don't
know what the conditions were. You don't know that. And
it's a results based business and whether we like it
or not, that is what they've decided because they are
a professional sports outfit and they want to change immediately.
(05:57):
You know, you look at Damian McKenzie last year, a
couple of games and the number ten Jersey dropped, you know,
replaced by boat embarrassings business. It's high stakes stuff and
I think, you know, we have very right to feel disappointed,
as kiwis, for the nature in which this has happened.
But this is the top of the top. These are
the twenty best drivers in the world and and you
know you just have to perform from get go. I
(06:18):
just do just want to say that Liam Lawson in
the last hour or so has put out really humble, genuine,
and I think you know, very special post about this.
He's acknowledged that it's been a pretty tough time, but
he's sort of even taken the step back. He said,
look at these photos that I put up in these
pictures that I drew of myself at primary skill, of
me wanting to be a red Bull driver. This has
(06:40):
been my dream for so long. It hasn't gone the
way I planned, But thanking everyone for their support and
saying he's ready for the new challenge of being part
of this racing balls outfit. So he's dealt with that
as a complete and utter professional, and we've got to
give him credit for that too.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
You couldn't help.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Can I just can I just jump and on what
coops are saying there about being top of the top
and being elite?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Isn't that?
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Isn't that just? You know? The this is where we've
reached now, is that we in such a landscape of
instant gratification that we just have lost any ability to
be patient. Imagine if you opened a new venue and
after a couple of nights, you didn't get the tables
as full as you want, so you sack the chef,
things take time. You cannot simply say, okay, well he's
(07:24):
had a couple of races, he hasn't done the job.
We're dropping him. Mark Webber was on the radio with
me last week. In the first five years of his
Grand Prix career, he made the podium twice. In the
next five years he made the podium forty times. Four. Oh,
it takes time. Red Bull have absolutely no patients. I
know they're under pressure, but we've lost the ability across
(07:45):
a lot of elite sport to actually hover above things
and say it's gonna take a little bit of time.
Imagine if we've got rid of Graham Henry after the
two thousand and seven Rgby World Cup, we never would
have had twenty eleven. Hindsight's a wonderful thing. But but
now you know, managers are sacked having won. You know,
the same goes for Jian Carlo Ataliano. They're calling for
(08:06):
his head. Out at Wellington Phoenix a year ago, top
of the Pops I ever finished by Wellington Phoenix. Side this,
this drive for instant results is hurting players, drivers, coaches,
everybody associated with top sport because owners simply can't see
past past the end of next week.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I'm not looking in the mirror, Party, but I understand
what you're saying. I'm not looking at the mirror because
you know, it is a business. You know it's about
bums on seats, and you can't tell who They're not
going to sell more merchandise in Japan this weekend than with.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
You know that is that what red Bull's for to
sell merchandiz. People want to win Redburll want to win
Formula One races. But you look anyone who go anyone
who went into that seat, be it Liam Lawson, Yuki Sonoda,
anybody was going to be on a hiding to nothing,
so you have to give them leeway. Honestly, as I
(09:01):
said before, it is an utterly disgraceful decision by Red Bull.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Well party.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
I totally agree, totally supported. Lovely to hear you're so
damn passionate about it. I should have I should have
recorded that and played it to myself in the middle
of the night when I woke up and being concerned
about let's talk about the hurricanes tonight, because I'm a
little bit concerned. I think the Warratas are definitely beatable,
but coops, hurricanes, they're just not given me what I
(09:27):
want at the moment.
Speaker 5 (09:28):
No, they have struggled this year, haven't they. That's that's
the word. I think that's been a struggle. Injuries that
have been a problem, and I think the way that
the players that have been there and filling some of
those really important gaps have struggled just with with creating
everything from opportunities to finishes, to tackles to you know,
poor discipline, and there's been a multiple range of factors
that have cost the team this year. We can't just
(09:50):
blame the injuries. I don't think where there's there's a
you know, just they just haven't really I don't think
we're playing as a team too well. So I really
hope that the bye week has given them the chance
to sort of take stock look at some of those
new combinations that they have been forced to deal with
this season. You know, you've got the likes of a
suffer of More and Tyrol Lomax. Now, no are two
people that have they to change a season. Harry Godfrey
(10:10):
out which isn't great. So Riley Hohepper, who's been a
bit of a journeyman aged thirty, making his first Souper
rugby start for the Canes tonight, so yeah, we'll see
how that goes.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Piney really quickly, because I want to ask you about
the Phoenix games on on this weekend. But you wouldn't
actually pick a winner out of the Hurricanes and Wartars tonight,
would you? Oh?
Speaker 4 (10:28):
While while i'm you know, while I'm on four, i'd
say absolutely you can. Wartas haven't beaten the Hurricane since
twenty fifteen, and I don't see it's starting tonight.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Nick, Okay, what about the Phoenix quickly? Yes or no?
Can they win?
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Oh? Well, they're not favorite. I've just come back from
Phoenix HQ and the I've got about five injuries, so yeah,
I don't think they're favorite against Western Sydney tomorrow. Put
it that way.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Oh my god? What about the woman's time.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Playing top of the table Melbourne City, who haven't lost again?
You're up against it, but who knows?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
You're pretty good at don Pidy, Pidy, lovely to have
you on party. I'm looking forward to tomorrow. Hopefully you
get a good night's sleep tomorrow. I'm looking forward to
the show tomorrow. Adam Cooper, Jason Pine, thank you both
very much. I'll be listening to the coops in the
morning and Piney in the afternoon.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Oh, he was on fire.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
And hey, he was on fire, Jason Pin, I'd love
to hear him like that.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news Talks It'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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