The government has announced $12 billion of funding for the Defence Force as part of it's new capability plan - but where will the money come from?
Also, a new report from a the Ministerial advisory group says NZ is losing the fight against organised crime, with Customs "swimming against the tide" as meth use doubles. How do we better fight organised crime?
To answer those questions, Labour's health and Wellington issues spokeswoman Ayesha Verrall and National's Otaki MP Tim Costley joined Nick Mills for Politics Thursday.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks at B, focusing in on the issues
that matter Politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings News Talks at B.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
That's a shine. Can you make it right decision? Alevi
lever shine when you make it right decision.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Join us for politics Thursday. This week is National O
Techies MP. Tim Costly, good morning, good morning. How are
you doing?
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Oh so good? Great to be here dressed.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Up looking fine? That I mean, what's the standards?
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Some of us have standards, So.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Stop looking at me like that when you said that,
I'm trying.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
To reach down to this microphone. You haven't invested in
taller microphone stands yet.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Okay, we don't have that sort of budget and our
budget and joining us on the phone from Auckland his
Labour's health in Wellington's Issues spokesperson spokeswoman spokesperson Spokeswoman Aishaveraal, good.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Morning, I Shall good morning.
Speaker 5 (01:16):
Next nice.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
What are you spending so much time in Auckland for?
Why are you guys so worried about Auckland.
Speaker 5 (01:23):
Oh, we need to be up here to meet the
voters and make sure we do better what's the next
time round? From the many hours I spend in Wellington, you're.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Wellington's issue spokesperson. What the hell are you doing in Auckland?
What do they think of that? Am? I?
Speaker 5 (01:39):
Are you putting me on lockdown in Wellington? I think
I'm allowed to go some other place?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Are the table ten?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Oh, it's just that we're missing you this morning. I
I'll give you a little bit talk. Let's talk defense.
Tim should know a little tiny bit about this. The
government has announced a twelve billion dollar funding for the
defense forces. Part of the new capability planned, we'll get
new planes, new choppers and other kit. Tim, you're a
cop chopper. I mean this must be pretty exciting to you.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
It's hugely exciting. It's the day so many people thought
would never come. I've had so many messages on my
phone over the last few days that just say things
like thank you from all of us. This is really significant.
Twelve billion dollars just over the next four years. It's
almost doubling the budget. But by twenty thirty two we
hit that magical two percent of GDP for the first
(02:30):
time in forty years. I mean, you have to go
back to the nineteen nineties, the very start of them
to find the last time the government spent this much
on defense.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Now, can I just tell our listeners that thoses don't
know Tim was in the Air Force? Is that right?
You are twenty three years and you know a helicopter pilot,
so new helicopters, would you still be able to fly them?
Speaker 4 (02:52):
I'd have a crack. No, I have look the new
helicopters coming off for the Navy. They have really needed
replacing for the last few years.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
I still have to have heliicop the pilot, so that
means you wouldn't be flying them. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Absolutely, Well, well, hopefully I'll be saving the good people
of company for a few years to come. But no,
these are Navy helicopters coming. Yes, I was qualified to
fly the current Air Force ones, which the NH ninety,
but it's the Navy ones that are getting replaced first,
along with things like Air Force Boeings, military vehicles comes
across the Army, space, cyber in telfunctions. It's vast, it's
(03:25):
really significant. We haven't seen an investment like this probably
in a lifetime for most people.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I show. We've got to admit, we've all got to
admit that we're now living in a lot scarier environment
than what we all grew up with. Is this the
right move to invest like this?
Speaker 5 (03:42):
Well, we made a Similipan in twenty nineteen, and it's
good that these types of plans get published periodically so
that there's visibility across government of where we're going with defense.
This is the additional drones, which we think is a
good capability for New Zealand to have, and hearing about
(04:06):
how they're being used in the war in Ukraine to
in the as an adjunct to the weapons we already had,
means it's an important capability for us to us to have.
So Yes, in general we support what the contents of
the plan is. It is worth noting that that wasn't
(04:27):
a budget announcement. The spending has not yet been announced,
and that's what labor's keeping its eye on because of
course these spends do have trade offs and we need
to make sure that we can get in behind this
capability as long as alongside all the other social poles
social spending and infrastructure needs the country has tim We.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Heard Nikola Willison z B this morning saying there's no
new borrowing in the budget so where the hell is
this twelve billion dollars going to come from? What else
is what's going to be cut?
Speaker 4 (04:57):
No, it's not about that. This is about investing in defense,
and it's where's.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
The money coming from if we're not going to borrow
twelve billions.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
A lot to put Nicola will is that. Don't let
her make those announcements at the budget. It's only a
few weeks away. Now, look, look, this is this is
spending that has been committed to. This is this is
going to happen. We are on a track for the
first time to see defense spending increasing. In my career,
it's just gone down from you know, I joined Justice
Hound and Clark got rid of the jets, right through labor,
(05:25):
national labor governments, spending went down. This is the first
time it's actually going up significantly. As you know, when
we look at that percentage of GDP, this is really significant.
Jim Bolger was the last Prime minister that could claim
to have overseen, you know, a defense force that was
this well funded.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Jim, Tim, do we need to pay the defense members modal?
Are we looking after them? We are we doing the
right thing by them?
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Oh, there's there's there's two parts to that. Their rates
of pay are actually pretty good. And and everyone I know,
myself included, never joined for the money. We joined for
the experience, for the adventure. Actually we need to give
them a bit of that adventure. And that's why these
recent deployments, sending actually sending our forces overseas again is
a real positive. But it also comes with other conditions
of service. And one of those things is, you know,
(06:09):
how we recognize people that have served, It's how we
support them. It's things like the accommodation, the mess facilities
that are part of this budget spending. Actually that's as
significant often for families in the defense force as as
is the pure things like pay.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
I shall We talked on the show yesterday about organized crime.
A new report from the Ministerial Advisory Group says that
New Zealand's losing the fight with customs quote swimming against
the tide with Matthews has doubled. We talked to investigative
reporter Jared Savage on the show yesterday. He says organized
(06:44):
crime is worse than it's ever been in New Zealand's history.
How do we fight it? What are we doing wrong?
Speaker 5 (06:53):
So I agree those are major concerns and the doubling
of met and wastewater over just the last year is
really that is the canary in the coal mine that
something is changing in New Zealand and we do need
to take a take strong action. Business is booming for
the gangs. Irrespective of how they addressed and the government's
(07:15):
passed laws to make sure gangs dressed differently in New Zealand,
they are still going about selling mets and in our
communities and actually having a substantive approach to dealing with
them is what's needed. Not police, the fashion police for gang.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Yeah, and this is far more than fashion police for gangs, right,
and that shows that the attitude that we see from
Labor and the Greens on law and order rarely soft. Actually,
they had the chance to vote for the gang Patch Band,
which even Ginny Anderson said is working much better than
they thought, but they voted against it. They could have
voted for firearm prevention prohibition orders, they voted against it.
(07:51):
They could have voted to give police tools to go
after the gangs, they voted against it. They could have
voted to go after illegal firearms, they voted against it.
And time and time again, labor MPs like Duncan Webb
have stood in the House defending them, saying that gang
members are the victims. Actually, we need to go hard
on these guys and we need to back our police
to do the job. That's what national are doing.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
I should now you can not what you've done.
Speaker 5 (08:13):
What you've done. You've just changed how they dressed is
going twice as much mess under your watch, and you've
changed how they're dressing. Well done.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Well.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
You ask people on the street and we saw the
survey you say that came out from around Wellington. People
feel safer on the street. People are feeling safer in
their communities. And yes, we absolutely need to crack down
on drugs. We're not immune. We've seen the same things.
Like I read eighty thousand deaths in the US the
last two years from opioids. That's horrific. We're not immune
to that. We need to go hard, but we need
(08:43):
to target it both off short in terms of transnational
organized crime and working with customs, working with partner agencies
to stop the supply. But we also need to go
hard against the people that are dealing it, that are
delivering it, distributing it around our communities in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Tim, just quickly before we take a break, ask you,
because you know there's been so much talk about the
new five hundred police that we're going to join and
those I think confirmed. The has only been thirteen increases.
Are we still working on that? Is that still a plan? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (09:12):
Absolutely, And the starting point actually dropped two hundred because
we were losing police officers when the government changed. So yep,
there were real headwinds that we face, but I'm proud
that we are increasing and we need to keep going that.
People want to see more police on the streets and.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Welling so that's going to be done by the end
of the year.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Well, the last I saw from a minister said they
might be slightly off that. I don't have that detail.
You'll have to ask the minister. But look, people like
seeing police on the beat. People feel safe in our communities.
We should be back in them.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Politics Thursday in the studio we have Tim Costly and
in Auckland. Even though she's Wellington's is she's spokesperson, she's
also Labour's health spokesperson, so she's doing a bit of
work in Auckland. Hi shaverral tell Us start with you
on this one. The Treaty Principals Bill, David Seymour's Principal
Treaty Principal Bills comes before Parliament to day for its
(10:05):
second reading. It's expected to be voted down. Well, tell
me one thing that this is achieved, this whole exercise.
What is it achieved?
Speaker 5 (10:17):
Well?
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Look what It's part of the coalition agreement that got
a coalition government together, which means we can do the
things we're focused on, which is tackling the cost to
live and growing our economy into living the kind of
public services that Kiwis want, like health and education.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
I wasn't asking you about health and education. I was
asking you what this Treaty Principal Bill has done, has
achieved for us as a country, you as a government,
you as a coalition government.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Oh look, and there's lots of things I'd point to
from the last government and say what did that achieve? Right,
But we live in an MMP environment where every party
that gets elected to Parliament get to bring their ideas
to the table. At the moment the coalition has at
New Zealand First and National, they've all brought their ideas.
Now we're the bigger party, we get to bring a
few more The things, like I said that we're focused
on are growing our economy, making life a bit easier
(11:01):
for Kiwis Active bought this and said that was one
thing that was critical to them. We said, well, look,
we'll take it through the first reading and give you
a chance, but we're not interested in supporting any further.
That's what's going to happen today.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Ah, how does this actually affect reflect on the government?
I mean, what are people saying to you?
Speaker 5 (11:19):
It's been an incredibly divisious bill and we've seen that
over the last fifteen months or however long this bill
has been debated in the country. Massive he corey, massive
mobilization of protest and if we reflect on what Tim
just said there, this was the cost of national forming
(11:41):
government and we've had to have something that hears at
the fabric of New Zealand society.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
For Chris Luxing to BPM, it's been incredibly deficive. So
isn't it. I mean we have you know, we started
bringing up conversations that we didn't need to bring up
or did we.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
Oh, look, I think we've certainly seen division. No, I
don't think would argue that but I think we also
saw that in the previous three years. We saw that
around co governance of three Waters. We saw that around
things like a separate martor health authority, but it wasn't
delivering any outcomes for people. People's lives were getting worse.
And look, they had a complete majority, they could do
anything they want. We've seen the agenda labor bring, We've
(12:18):
seen what nationally focused on. And look, when I turn
up at work, the stuff I'm thinking about is how
do I make life just a little bit easier for
someone that's living in Padapaumu. That's what I'm focused on.
That's what I'll continue to focus on.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
I should. We spoke this morning as a segment on
our show about a new report that's uncovered the extreme
abuse suffered by female MPs, including physical abuse where women
MPs have been pinned against walls, a fake gun pulled
out on them, and had constant rape and death threats.
I should Could you enlighten us on what your experiences
(12:53):
have been like? Normal people think the stuff's horrific.
Speaker 5 (12:59):
Yeah, Look, I fear that normal people won't want to
go into politics with some of what in that report
and with what goes on I have had some experiences
where I've been concerned for my security. One of that's
bubbled over into into an actual situation. Sometimes prior to
(13:22):
the election, I felt I was in scenarios where perhaps
people hadn't realized they had rounded me and blocked my
exits to the door and things like that. Maybe they
were just well intentioned people wanting to talk that some
of the debate was a bit heated in those contexts
when you're also aware what's being said about you on
(13:44):
social media does make you worried about your your safety.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Can I just ask you about something that's in my mind?
And it just popped up, and it's been in my
mind quite a few times over the last five or
six years. I don't know whether you remember, but Prime
Minister to Sindra durn went down South Island somewhere to
open a school. Do you remember that particular case. We
share in a van and went to open the school
and it was just horrid what she had to put
(14:11):
up with. Horror And I always felt, in my mind,
rightly or wrongly, this was a turning point in her
in her decision to give up. I just thought she
shouldn't have had to experience that. Do you remember what
I'm talking about.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
I'm not sure if I remember that specific event, but
I do remember the eighteen months before the election were
pretty tough and there was a lot of a lot
of it's of violence, and I guess that culminated in
the Parliament protest. It's the pandemic and that. Yeah, that
(14:48):
was a time where I think we saw a lot
of things that used to be acceptable in New Zealand's
political culture become more common and that's really unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Now, Tim, you're a young guy, so you'd have a
lot of connection with female MP's. I'll be talking to
you and you know sharing, you know, sharing their stories.
Is it much worse for female MPs? And it is
for males?
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Look, it's it's horrible, you know, even hearing I should
share hair experiences, right, People should not have to do that.
No one, no matter what party they are in, No woman,
no person should have to experience that kind of of
behavior or anything. And in some cases obviously have been
far wors like the ones you mentioned earlier. I know
from chatting with some of my friends and colleagues and
national some of them have had to call police at
(15:30):
their electorate office for different things. Absolutely, and and you know,
I think maybe I should mention the online stuff as
well before. And that's a real concern, you know. I've
just seen the impact that it can have on my
family or my three daughters, and I want to make
sure it may not be my daughters that end up
becoming MP's one day, but there will be a number
of women like my youth MP. She's a remarkable young woman.
(15:51):
In fact, there were so many that applied for that role.
I want them to see this as a pathway they
can go without having to fear for them.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Do you think it is worse for women?
Speaker 5 (16:00):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
That's that.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
I mean, it's really hard for me to comment, but
from what I've read, that certainly appears to be the case.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Aihu, can you just give me a yes or no
on that you think it is worse for women? Yes,
he seems to be a delay there, I show you there. Yes,
I do you do think it's worse for women? I do? Yeah, Okay.
This week we had some interesting news. Former labor leader
(16:27):
Andrew Little is reportedly eighty percent going to announce a
mayoralty run. I show you had a lot to do
with Andrew over the years. What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 5 (16:40):
Oh, I'm really excited by it and I hope we
can get Andrew to one hundred. And he has a
lot to offer Warrington. When I worked with Drew, I
are always found in someone with values, a really strong leader,
also a really good listener, someone who's comfortable with disagreement
(17:02):
and being able to work through with people from their
different inspectives to get agreement. I think that comes from
his background and unions. And yeah, I think here's a
lot toop.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
For the city.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Have you spoken to him about it? I mean, you're
labors willing to an issue person, but is he given
you a caller?
Speaker 5 (17:18):
Hey?
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Are sure? I'm thinking about running for mayor?
Speaker 5 (17:23):
He's got a protest. There's a process to go through
his for the party nomination if he chooses to seek that,
So we'll give him some space and thethtic supporter of him.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
I wasn't asking that question in or niceness. I don't
want to be abusive, but I was asking whether you've
spoken to him about it? Just a yes or not.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
I haven't spoken to him. I haven't spoken to him
about about this. But if he were to stand up
there there a strong supporter of his.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
So what are your thoughts when you heard that?
Speaker 4 (17:54):
I really felt for you at the time. You know,
you're not He's going to take you on from the nomination.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
And it's a low blow.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
No, look, national just you know, our consistant policy for
a long time has been we don't.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
I mean, you must have known a little bit about it.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Andrew, Well, look, I expect a lot of people are
seeing an opportunity at the moment that willing to want
some strong leadership. I'm certainly not going to come out
and endorse the Labor Party.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
What about what about the news today, I'll ask you
about this. I might get something out of you this. Okay,
Campbell Berry announcing that he isn't going to stand again
in Lower Heart, I mean is that? I mean it
surprised me, so it must have.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
I literally just saw that headline a minute ago. I
don't actually know him. I haven't had much to do
with the Hut. I'm more focused on the other side
of the hills obviously. But yeah, it's that kind of time.
I see the current mayor and Hude Fina has come
out and said he is going to stand. It's that
kind of time of year. Where everyone, I guess is
making those kind of decisions thinking through the next three years,
and no doubt there'll be a bit of change. But
for anyone stepping down from a role of service like
(18:54):
that where they've served a community, I'm always grateful for
people's service and wish them all the best.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Yeah, I should if you had anything to do with
Campbell Berry. I mean, he's obviously a labor guy, and
everyone said that he was going going in to do
this local body elections and then he was going to
go into central government. That was going to be a
transition for him. But he's said come out and said no,
he's not. He's going to look at other opportunities. What
are your thoughts when you heard that he was stepping
down in Lower Heart.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
I've enjoyed working with him when I was Minister of
the things like water. He always took a constructive approach
to that in the Wellington region. Given a lot, I
wish him well. I do hope as his young I
hope he has the future and other public service opportunities
down the line.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Do you think that he just wants some time out
before going to the central government. Do you think that
he's going to go into government that is, you know,
I mean everyone's talked about it.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
I wouldn't want to speculate, but he's certainly got a
lot of skills to bring to the party if he
chooses to.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Can you just tell me what you're actually doing in
Auckland too? Are you allowed to tell me that? Or
have you got something up there that's your opening or
closing or specifically.
Speaker 5 (20:05):
Involved in up in Lookland and just meeting house stakeholders,
meeting various groups including medt in New Zealand, from the
nursing and dental groups as well.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Okay, tell me quickly too. I've just while I've got
you online because I've been watching with great interest the
Nelson Hospitals saga unfold in front of our eyes on
TV one. Any developments there, Aisha, Is that getting any better?
Speaker 5 (20:35):
Brought in a team from around the country to s
the problem. See that shouldn't take long. They can get
that to grips with that problem.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Plea.
Speaker 5 (20:48):
I think there needs to be that report needs to
be published in the next month or so they can
move on and fix the issue. They're in conjunction with
the klindical leadership of the hospital.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Thank you, Thank you. Both very much. Thank you Aishavera
in Auckland and Tim in the studio. Thanks for your
time coming and giving us your expertise on politics. Thursday
this morning, go back and enjoy. Are you in parliament
this afternoon?
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Yeah, I'm back in parliament today, but they're not so
after eastas so if I don't see him before then
have a good East.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
So your parliament's off the whole of next.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Week, that's right. Yeah, we gets going to do some
work in our in our local area. It's always gould
have a bit more time up on the coast's great place.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Three weeks. I might be able to borrow your apartment
in town for a couple of days if you're out
there joking, joking, joking, Thank you.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Both around me talk about your maryl campaign.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Come on, my meural campaign is probably yes.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
Well, if you can get a regional Dylan and you
can fix the water and focus on the basics, you'll
be You'll do great.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
I am not. I just make it clear. I'm not
running for the mayor of Wellington. I just make that
really clear. Tall. I'll tell you so you can go
back and tell me you've got the scoop you got
the Scoop. You can go back to the bee Hive
and say, listen, I've just heard from Nick Mills that
he ain't running and good. We can all get them
behind whatever.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks at B, focusing in on the issues
that matter Politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings News Talks at B.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
That's a shine. Can you make it right decision? Alevi
lever shine when you make it right decision.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Join us for politics Thursday. This week is National O
Techies MP. Tim Costly, good morning, good morning. How are
you doing?
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Oh so good? Great to be here dressed.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Up looking fine? That I mean, what's the standards?
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Some of us have standards, So.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Stop looking at me like that when you said that,
I'm trying.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
To reach down to this microphone. You haven't invested in
taller microphone stands yet.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Okay, we don't have that sort of budget and our
budget and joining us on the phone from Auckland his
Labour's health in Wellington's Issues spokesperson spokeswoman spokesperson Spokeswoman Aishaveraal, good.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Morning, I Shall good morning.
Speaker 5 (01:16):
Next nice.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
What are you spending so much time in Auckland for?
Why are you guys so worried about Auckland.
Speaker 5 (01:23):
Oh, we need to be up here to meet the
voters and make sure we do better what's the next
time round? From the many hours I spend in Wellington, you're.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Wellington's issue spokesperson. What the hell are you doing in Auckland?
What do they think of that? Am? I?
Speaker 5 (01:39):
Are you putting me on lockdown in Wellington? I think
I'm allowed to go some other place?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Are the table ten?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Oh, it's just that we're missing you this morning. I
I'll give you a little bit talk. Let's talk defense.
Tim should know a little tiny bit about this. The
government has announced a twelve billion dollar funding for the
defense forces. Part of the new capability planned, we'll get
new planes, new choppers and other kit. Tim, you're a
cop chopper. I mean this must be pretty exciting to you.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
It's hugely exciting. It's the day so many people thought
would never come. I've had so many messages on my
phone over the last few days that just say things
like thank you from all of us. This is really significant.
Twelve billion dollars just over the next four years. It's
almost doubling the budget. But by twenty thirty two we
hit that magical two percent of GDP for the first
(02:30):
time in forty years. I mean, you have to go
back to the nineteen nineties, the very start of them
to find the last time the government spent this much
on defense.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Now, can I just tell our listeners that thoses don't
know Tim was in the Air Force? Is that right?
You are twenty three years and you know a helicopter pilot,
so new helicopters, would you still be able to fly them?
Speaker 4 (02:52):
I'd have a crack. No, I have look the new
helicopters coming off for the Navy. They have really needed
replacing for the last few years.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
I still have to have heliicop the pilot, so that
means you wouldn't be flying them. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Absolutely, Well, well, hopefully I'll be saving the good people
of company for a few years to come. But no,
these are Navy helicopters coming. Yes, I was qualified to
fly the current Air Force ones, which the NH ninety,
but it's the Navy ones that are getting replaced first,
along with things like Air Force Boeings, military vehicles comes
across the Army, space, cyber in telfunctions. It's vast, it's
(03:25):
really significant. We haven't seen an investment like this probably
in a lifetime for most people.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I show. We've got to admit, we've all got to
admit that we're now living in a lot scarier environment
than what we all grew up with. Is this the
right move to invest like this?
Speaker 5 (03:42):
Well, we made a Similipan in twenty nineteen, and it's
good that these types of plans get published periodically so
that there's visibility across government of where we're going with defense.
This is the additional drones, which we think is a
good capability for New Zealand to have, and hearing about
(04:06):
how they're being used in the war in Ukraine to
in the as an adjunct to the weapons we already had,
means it's an important capability for us to us to have.
So Yes, in general we support what the contents of
the plan is. It is worth noting that that wasn't
(04:27):
a budget announcement. The spending has not yet been announced,
and that's what labor's keeping its eye on because of
course these spends do have trade offs and we need
to make sure that we can get in behind this
capability as long as alongside all the other social poles
social spending and infrastructure needs the country has tim We.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Heard Nikola Willison z B this morning saying there's no
new borrowing in the budget so where the hell is
this twelve billion dollars going to come from? What else
is what's going to be cut?
Speaker 4 (04:57):
No, it's not about that. This is about investing in defense,
and it's where's.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
The money coming from if we're not going to borrow
twelve billions.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
A lot to put Nicola will is that. Don't let
her make those announcements at the budget. It's only a
few weeks away. Now, look, look, this is this is
spending that has been committed to. This is this is
going to happen. We are on a track for the
first time to see defense spending increasing. In my career,
it's just gone down from you know, I joined Justice
Hound and Clark got rid of the jets, right through labor,
(05:25):
national labor governments, spending went down. This is the first
time it's actually going up significantly. As you know, when
we look at that percentage of GDP, this is really significant.
Jim Bolger was the last Prime minister that could claim
to have overseen, you know, a defense force that was
this well funded.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Jim, Tim, do we need to pay the defense members modal?
Are we looking after them? We are we doing the
right thing by them?
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Oh, there's there's there's two parts to that. Their rates
of pay are actually pretty good. And and everyone I know,
myself included, never joined for the money. We joined for
the experience, for the adventure. Actually we need to give
them a bit of that adventure. And that's why these
recent deployments, sending actually sending our forces overseas again is
a real positive. But it also comes with other conditions
of service. And one of those things is, you know,
(06:09):
how we recognize people that have served, It's how we
support them. It's things like the accommodation, the mess facilities
that are part of this budget spending. Actually that's as
significant often for families in the defense force as as
is the pure things like pay.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
I shall We talked on the show yesterday about organized crime.
A new report from the Ministerial Advisory Group says that
New Zealand's losing the fight with customs quote swimming against
the tide with Matthews has doubled. We talked to investigative
reporter Jared Savage on the show yesterday. He says organized
(06:44):
crime is worse than it's ever been in New Zealand's history.
How do we fight it? What are we doing wrong?
Speaker 5 (06:53):
So I agree those are major concerns and the doubling
of met and wastewater over just the last year is
really that is the canary in the coal mine that
something is changing in New Zealand and we do need
to take a take strong action. Business is booming for
the gangs. Irrespective of how they addressed and the government's
(07:15):
passed laws to make sure gangs dressed differently in New Zealand,
they are still going about selling mets and in our
communities and actually having a substantive approach to dealing with
them is what's needed. Not police, the fashion police for gang.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Yeah, and this is far more than fashion police for gangs, right,
and that shows that the attitude that we see from
Labor and the Greens on law and order rarely soft. Actually,
they had the chance to vote for the gang Patch Band,
which even Ginny Anderson said is working much better than
they thought, but they voted against it. They could have
voted for firearm prevention prohibition orders, they voted against it.
(07:51):
They could have voted to give police tools to go
after the gangs, they voted against it. They could have
voted to go after illegal firearms, they voted against it.
And time and time again, labor MPs like Duncan Webb
have stood in the House defending them, saying that gang
members are the victims. Actually, we need to go hard
on these guys and we need to back our police
to do the job. That's what national are doing.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
I should now you can not what you've done.
Speaker 5 (08:13):
What you've done. You've just changed how they dressed is
going twice as much mess under your watch, and you've
changed how they're dressing. Well done.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Well.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
You ask people on the street and we saw the
survey you say that came out from around Wellington. People
feel safer on the street. People are feeling safer in
their communities. And yes, we absolutely need to crack down
on drugs. We're not immune. We've seen the same things.
Like I read eighty thousand deaths in the US the
last two years from opioids. That's horrific. We're not immune
to that. We need to go hard, but we need
(08:43):
to target it both off short in terms of transnational
organized crime and working with customs, working with partner agencies
to stop the supply. But we also need to go
hard against the people that are dealing it, that are
delivering it, distributing it around our communities in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Tim, just quickly before we take a break, ask you,
because you know there's been so much talk about the
new five hundred police that we're going to join and
those I think confirmed. The has only been thirteen increases.
Are we still working on that? Is that still a plan? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (09:12):
Absolutely, And the starting point actually dropped two hundred because
we were losing police officers when the government changed. So yep,
there were real headwinds that we face, but I'm proud
that we are increasing and we need to keep going that.
People want to see more police on the streets and.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Welling so that's going to be done by the end
of the year.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Well, the last I saw from a minister said they
might be slightly off that. I don't have that detail.
You'll have to ask the minister. But look, people like
seeing police on the beat. People feel safe in our communities.
We should be back in them.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Politics Thursday in the studio we have Tim Costly and
in Auckland. Even though she's Wellington's is she's spokesperson, she's
also Labour's health spokesperson, so she's doing a bit of
work in Auckland. Hi shaverral tell Us start with you
on this one. The Treaty Principals Bill, David Seymour's Principal
Treaty Principal Bills comes before Parliament to day for its
(10:05):
second reading. It's expected to be voted down. Well, tell
me one thing that this is achieved, this whole exercise.
What is it achieved?
Speaker 5 (10:17):
Well?
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Look what It's part of the coalition agreement that got
a coalition government together, which means we can do the
things we're focused on, which is tackling the cost to
live and growing our economy into living the kind of
public services that Kiwis want, like health and education.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
I wasn't asking you about health and education. I was
asking you what this Treaty Principal Bill has done, has
achieved for us as a country, you as a government,
you as a coalition government.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Oh look, and there's lots of things I'd point to
from the last government and say what did that achieve? Right,
But we live in an MMP environment where every party
that gets elected to Parliament get to bring their ideas
to the table. At the moment the coalition has at
New Zealand First and National, they've all brought their ideas.
Now we're the bigger party, we get to bring a
few more The things, like I said that we're focused
on are growing our economy, making life a bit easier
(11:01):
for Kiwis Active bought this and said that was one
thing that was critical to them. We said, well, look,
we'll take it through the first reading and give you
a chance, but we're not interested in supporting any further.
That's what's going to happen today.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Ah, how does this actually affect reflect on the government?
I mean, what are people saying to you?
Speaker 5 (11:19):
It's been an incredibly divisious bill and we've seen that
over the last fifteen months or however long this bill
has been debated in the country. Massive he corey, massive
mobilization of protest and if we reflect on what Tim
just said there, this was the cost of national forming
(11:41):
government and we've had to have something that hears at
the fabric of New Zealand society.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
For Chris Luxing to BPM, it's been incredibly deficive. So
isn't it. I mean we have you know, we started
bringing up conversations that we didn't need to bring up
or did we.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
Oh, look, I think we've certainly seen division. No, I
don't think would argue that but I think we also
saw that in the previous three years. We saw that
around co governance of three Waters. We saw that around
things like a separate martor health authority, but it wasn't
delivering any outcomes for people. People's lives were getting worse.
And look, they had a complete majority, they could do
anything they want. We've seen the agenda labor bring, We've
(12:18):
seen what nationally focused on. And look, when I turn
up at work, the stuff I'm thinking about is how
do I make life just a little bit easier for
someone that's living in Padapaumu. That's what I'm focused on.
That's what I'll continue to focus on.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
I should. We spoke this morning as a segment on
our show about a new report that's uncovered the extreme
abuse suffered by female MPs, including physical abuse where women
MPs have been pinned against walls, a fake gun pulled
out on them, and had constant rape and death threats.
I should Could you enlighten us on what your experiences
(12:53):
have been like? Normal people think the stuff's horrific.
Speaker 5 (12:59):
Yeah, Look, I fear that normal people won't want to
go into politics with some of what in that report
and with what goes on I have had some experiences
where I've been concerned for my security. One of that's
bubbled over into into an actual situation. Sometimes prior to
(13:22):
the election, I felt I was in scenarios where perhaps
people hadn't realized they had rounded me and blocked my
exits to the door and things like that. Maybe they
were just well intentioned people wanting to talk that some
of the debate was a bit heated in those contexts
when you're also aware what's being said about you on
(13:44):
social media does make you worried about your your safety.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Can I just ask you about something that's in my mind?
And it just popped up, and it's been in my
mind quite a few times over the last five or
six years. I don't know whether you remember, but Prime
Minister to Sindra durn went down South Island somewhere to
open a school. Do you remember that particular case. We
share in a van and went to open the school
and it was just horrid what she had to put
(14:11):
up with. Horror And I always felt, in my mind,
rightly or wrongly, this was a turning point in her
in her decision to give up. I just thought she
shouldn't have had to experience that. Do you remember what
I'm talking about.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
I'm not sure if I remember that specific event, but
I do remember the eighteen months before the election were
pretty tough and there was a lot of a lot
of it's of violence, and I guess that culminated in
the Parliament protest. It's the pandemic and that. Yeah, that
(14:48):
was a time where I think we saw a lot
of things that used to be acceptable in New Zealand's
political culture become more common and that's really unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Now, Tim, you're a young guy, so you'd have a
lot of connection with female MP's. I'll be talking to
you and you know sharing, you know, sharing their stories.
Is it much worse for female MPs? And it is
for males?
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Look, it's it's horrible, you know, even hearing I should
share hair experiences, right, People should not have to do that.
No one, no matter what party they are in, No woman,
no person should have to experience that kind of of
behavior or anything. And in some cases obviously have been
far wors like the ones you mentioned earlier. I know
from chatting with some of my friends and colleagues and
national some of them have had to call police at
(15:30):
their electorate office for different things. Absolutely, and and you know,
I think maybe I should mention the online stuff as
well before. And that's a real concern, you know. I've
just seen the impact that it can have on my
family or my three daughters, and I want to make
sure it may not be my daughters that end up
becoming MP's one day, but there will be a number
of women like my youth MP. She's a remarkable young woman.
(15:51):
In fact, there were so many that applied for that role.
I want them to see this as a pathway they
can go without having to fear for them.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Do you think it is worse for women?
Speaker 5 (16:00):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
That's that.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
I mean, it's really hard for me to comment, but
from what I've read, that certainly appears to be the case.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Aihu, can you just give me a yes or no
on that you think it is worse for women? Yes,
he seems to be a delay there, I show you there. Yes,
I do you do think it's worse for women? I do? Yeah, Okay.
This week we had some interesting news. Former labor leader
(16:27):
Andrew Little is reportedly eighty percent going to announce a
mayoralty run. I show you had a lot to do
with Andrew over the years. What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 5 (16:40):
Oh, I'm really excited by it and I hope we
can get Andrew to one hundred. And he has a
lot to offer Warrington. When I worked with Drew, I
are always found in someone with values, a really strong leader,
also a really good listener, someone who's comfortable with disagreement
(17:02):
and being able to work through with people from their
different inspectives to get agreement. I think that comes from
his background and unions. And yeah, I think here's a
lot toop.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
For the city.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Have you spoken to him about it? I mean, you're
labors willing to an issue person, but is he given
you a caller?
Speaker 5 (17:18):
Hey?
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Are sure? I'm thinking about running for mayor?
Speaker 5 (17:23):
He's got a protest. There's a process to go through
his for the party nomination if he chooses to seek that,
So we'll give him some space and thethtic supporter of him.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
I wasn't asking that question in or niceness. I don't
want to be abusive, but I was asking whether you've
spoken to him about it? Just a yes or not.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
I haven't spoken to him. I haven't spoken to him
about about this. But if he were to stand up
there there a strong supporter of his.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
So what are your thoughts when you heard that?
Speaker 4 (17:54):
I really felt for you at the time. You know,
you're not He's going to take you on from the nomination.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
And it's a low blow.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
No, look, national just you know, our consistant policy for
a long time has been we don't.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
I mean, you must have known a little bit about it.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Andrew, Well, look, I expect a lot of people are
seeing an opportunity at the moment that willing to want
some strong leadership. I'm certainly not going to come out
and endorse the Labor Party.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
What about what about the news today, I'll ask you
about this. I might get something out of you this. Okay,
Campbell Berry announcing that he isn't going to stand again
in Lower Heart, I mean is that? I mean it
surprised me, so it must have.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
I literally just saw that headline a minute ago. I
don't actually know him. I haven't had much to do
with the Hut. I'm more focused on the other side
of the hills obviously. But yeah, it's that kind of time.
I see the current mayor and Hude Fina has come
out and said he is going to stand. It's that
kind of time of year. Where everyone, I guess is
making those kind of decisions thinking through the next three years,
and no doubt there'll be a bit of change. But
for anyone stepping down from a role of service like
(18:54):
that where they've served a community, I'm always grateful for
people's service and wish them all the best.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Yeah, I should if you had anything to do with
Campbell Berry. I mean, he's obviously a labor guy, and
everyone said that he was going going in to do
this local body elections and then he was going to
go into central government. That was going to be a
transition for him. But he's said come out and said no,
he's not. He's going to look at other opportunities. What
are your thoughts when you heard that he was stepping
down in Lower Heart.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
I've enjoyed working with him when I was Minister of
the things like water. He always took a constructive approach
to that in the Wellington region. Given a lot, I
wish him well. I do hope as his young I
hope he has the future and other public service opportunities
down the line.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Do you think that he just wants some time out
before going to the central government. Do you think that
he's going to go into government that is, you know,
I mean everyone's talked about it.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
I wouldn't want to speculate, but he's certainly got a
lot of skills to bring to the party if he
chooses to.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Can you just tell me what you're actually doing in
Auckland too? Are you allowed to tell me that? Or
have you got something up there that's your opening or
closing or specifically.
Speaker 5 (20:05):
Involved in up in Lookland and just meeting house stakeholders,
meeting various groups including medt in New Zealand, from the
nursing and dental groups as well.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Okay, tell me quickly too. I've just while I've got
you online because I've been watching with great interest the
Nelson Hospitals saga unfold in front of our eyes on
TV one. Any developments there, Aisha, Is that getting any better?
Speaker 5 (20:35):
Brought in a team from around the country to s
the problem. See that shouldn't take long. They can get
that to grips with that problem.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Plea.
Speaker 5 (20:48):
I think there needs to be that report needs to
be published in the next month or so they can
move on and fix the issue. They're in conjunction with
the klindical leadership of the hospital.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Thank you, Thank you. Both very much. Thank you Aishavera
in Auckland and Tim in the studio. Thanks for your
time coming and giving us your expertise on politics. Thursday
this morning, go back and enjoy. Are you in parliament
this afternoon?
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Yeah, I'm back in parliament today, but they're not so
after eastas so if I don't see him before then
have a good East.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
So your parliament's off the whole of next.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Week, that's right. Yeah, we gets going to do some
work in our in our local area. It's always gould
have a bit more time up on the coast's great place.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Three weeks. I might be able to borrow your apartment
in town for a couple of days if you're out
there joking, joking, joking, Thank you.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Both around me talk about your maryl campaign.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Come on, my meural campaign is probably yes.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
Well, if you can get a regional Dylan and you
can fix the water and focus on the basics, you'll
be You'll do great.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
I am not. I just make it clear. I'm not
running for the mayor of Wellington. I just make that
really clear. Tall. I'll tell you so you can go
back and tell me you've got the scoop you got
the Scoop. You can go back to the bee Hive
and say, listen, I've just heard from Nick Mills that
he ain't running and good. We can all get them
behind whatever.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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