April 30, 2025 • 19 mins
Kiwirail has announced the Interislander Aratere will be retired – leaving us with just two ferries until new ones arrive in 2029. Can the country cope with a reduced ferry fleet?
Also, Finance Minister Nicola Willis has given herself barely any new money this budget, and most of the money she has got has already been spent. Are we likely to see substantial cuts?
To answer those questions, Labour's police spokesperson Ginny Andersen and National's Wairarapa MP Mike Butterick joined Nick Mills for Politics Thursday.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks ed B, focusing in on the issues
that matter politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings News Talks ed B.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Just before we start politics, fire an emergency. New Zealand
say they are responding to a steady stream of emergency
calls around the Wellington region. They are advising everyone to
tie down loose items as a result of this red
wind warning. This is, you know, the highest warning you
can get. So there we go, tie things down, be smart,
(00:50):
be sensible. Joining us this morning for politics Thursday is
Labor Police spokesperson Ginny Anderson. Good morning, Ginny, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Next.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Are you in the Wellington region right now?
Speaker 3 (01:03):
I flew out last night, so I'm actually an auctar
and I'm quite pleased I managed to make it out, okay,
because it seems like it's blowing a gale down there.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
When do you do back?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
I'm flying back tomorrow in the day.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
All going well, all going well? Yeah, okay, Well you
miss something here, National's wire wrapper MP. Mike butter Butterick,
are you over in the wire wrapper?
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Mic? Yeah, I am morning neck morning, Janet, Yeah, I am.
She's a bit. She's a bit blustering here, Nick.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, what are the conditions like for our wire rapper listeners?
I mean, what are they are? They are they bad?
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Yes, it's getting pretty untidy. I see that one's picked
up quite a bit in the last sort of half
hour hour. And I see I just hed there's a
slip on the rum attuckers there down to one lane.
But yet, No, we've had a good rain though we've
had there'll be a few happy cockies. There's a couple
of inches of rain and it's been pretty general. So
pennies from heaven neck pennies from heaven. But we could
do without the wind.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yeah, you're just like a cow cocky. Oh yeah, Yes,
it's getting a bit rough. It's blowing up for here.
Bit you're standing up sideways trying to get through the wind. Yeah,
it's a bit of wind, A little bit of wind,
all right. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
I heard there's also a slip on the wynoyamatohel which
has caused real issues in the huts ally as well.
I've had reports of that.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Okay, well, we'll keep you updated on that. If we
haven't heard that, but we'll we'll find out. Our newsroom
we'll find out about that. Thanks for that, Jinny. Well
let's start with Kiwi Rail, because I've been talking about
it for the last couple of hours. They have announced
that the inter Island Fairy Heratary will be retired, leaving
us with just two fairies until the new ones arrive
(02:34):
in twenty twenty nine. Ginny, the are attacking territary. Gosh
carry up to fifteen thousand people each week. How will
we cope without it?
Speaker 3 (02:46):
I don't know if we will. And it was just
completely reckless and are responsible of Nikola willis to cancel
that contract and grip it up without having a plan
in place. The irex plan we had would have delivered
faeries much quicker than what their plan does, and it
just continues to have an unacceptable level of unsuitained at
(03:07):
a time where our economy is already doing it tough.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, but the problem is we wouldn't have been able
to pay for it, and that's where the real issue
would be what happens.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
I would dispute that. I would dispute that. I think
there are ways. You know, this government has made choices
about how it spent its money. That found two point
nine billion dollars for tax breaks the landlords in two
hundred and sixteen million for tax breaks with the tobacco lobby.
I think there are poor choices that should have been
invested in things like court infrastructure to keep our our
main ferry lines open.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Well, we get to keep it to what we're talking about,
Mike Butterick. What happens if one of these two fairies breakdown?
Have you been told what's going to happen?
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Yeah, well, look, I mean fairy text in the last
I think the last four months i've been, they've been.
I don't think there's been any destruction at all, but
you know, talk about irresponsible. I mean the one point
two billion was going to blow out the sort of
stick afore but it was money that we didn't have.
But look, there is a plan and you know QB
rail is as they'll have now I'll get the I've
(04:05):
got to get the boat right. Don't know, we've got
the Kaiti kaiteka in the Kyler left. I think is
that correct? You know? So they're obviously working with freight
operators to get a plan going and work out how
they're going to do it, whether that may be an
extra salien or two. I'm not sure, but you know,
but the guts of it is though, you know, we
(04:26):
had to build a temporary fleet and you can't build
that when there's a boat in a way.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
But it's also been me Mike, let's cut to the
chase a little bit. I mean, we know, we know
Nikola Willis had a plan, but it wasn't rail enabled.
She was way advanced to us. Winston comes in, this
is the problem with the coalition. Winston comes in and says,
bangs the table a few times and says, no, give
it to me, I'll sort it. And we've gone back
(04:50):
and we still don't know what's going on.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
Well, no, I would dispute that there is a plan,
and there is a plan, and there's one thing. We're
looking forward to, new ferries both twenty twenty nine.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
You think we're looking forward to You're right, I mean,
there's no plan.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
The reality is there's a strong there is a strong
chance that we will have no ferries operating. If one
of those goes down, we are left exposed. That is
our main freight line, not only for tourism, but for
all of our import our goods that go up and
down the country. That is a real issue for security
of supply of goods in New Zealand and there will
(05:32):
be some big players, some big business in New Zealand
who are incredibly consumed that the Minister of Finance has
allowed this level of uncertainty to keep Jenny.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Should we have spent one hundred and twenty million dollars
over the five years to actually make sure that we
still had the services of three fairies in there and
the availability of roll on, roll off rail.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Service rail Nable is essential. We have always said that
it's the backbone of the country in terms of getting
goods and it's also a way of keeping our roads
intact and not relying.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
So so should we have spent one hundred and twenty
twenty million thing and twenty millions right, they wanted to
spend one hundred and twenty million would so that they
could keep that service going just for the four years.
That's basically what they would have had to spend on
port infrastructure. That's why they didn't do it. That's why
it's going.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Port infrastructure needs to be upgraded, irrespective of whatever the
fairies were there. That there is aging.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
This was specific for the Rataria. It wasn't for the
new fairies. This was just about enable them to still
use Orataria. So I personally, I don't think that's that
was the right thing to do, just spend one hundred
and twenty million for something that wasn't was only there
for temporarily for four years.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
The problem came when there was a plan in place
for rail enabled ferries and port infrastructure in that contract
was torn up. We still don't know exactly what the
cost it is, but we know it. We know it's
in the hundreds of millions that taxposers had to walk
out for whatever the cost trying to cobble together the deal.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Sorry Gilly to interrupt you, but whatever the cost, they're
going to pay into significance against the cost if we'd
carried on with your deal. I'm sorry that was the
I disagree.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
I disagree, and I think there's been some poor information available.
The cost budgeted and we saw that in the cabinet
paper was approximately three hundred million dollars to exit from
that contract with high und Now that is an absolute
waste of money. We don't get anything for that. If
we had have kept on track with a plan to
(07:33):
have rail enabled. Theories with the appropriate infrastructure, we would
have certainty about when we'll actually have some theories between
the two major islands.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Okay, well, let's just hope. Let's just hope, beyond all
hope that Winston's got to deal with high und that
combines the new build with the old costs and we
don't end up with a big build. Politics Thursday with
Mike Butterick and Ginny Anderson. Just before we start again,
hundreds of properties are without power around the Wellington region.
We have had reports of trees down in Central Low
(08:04):
Heart which has caused power outages, and there's some properties
without power in Ohario, Seatoon, mirama Eestbourne, Newlands and Seaview.
There's also significant surface flooding in some of those areas
and Seaview according to the latest reports. We're keeping you
completely up to date with the red alert that's been
issued by METS Service. Right back to politics and please
(08:26):
keep us up to date with anything that's going on.
Let's talk budget. Finance Minister Nichola Willis has given herself
barely any new money this budget and most of the
money she's got has already been spent. She says. Billions
have been found by cutting other projects. Ginny, ginny, ginny,
ginny cuts the right thing to do right now in
the economy.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
They're not nick And so what we've seen from the
previous budget is that these cuts, these job losses, and
the tax take is reduced because the government's got least money.
These more cuts jobs are cuts again and is less
tax take. We're locked in a downward spiral and it's
really concerning that the government has no plan to actually
get growth and get us out of it. And just
(09:09):
cutting more would mean we don't have doctors. They're striking
out because they can't afford to pay them. It's going
to cause some significant problems for us in the long run,
and it's looking pretty bleak, Mike.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
This is the lowest amount of new spending since twenty fifteen.
Back then the economy was great, buoy and happy. Now
it's not should we consider just keep borrowing or a
little bit.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
No, it's the old economics one oh one, and that
you've got to learn to live within your means, and
we've got we need to be fiscally disciplined, you know,
And you know it's certainly not my place to wait
in a speculator on what the budget is going to
look like you're gonna have to hurry up and wait
for that. But you know, we've actually got to be
(09:52):
focused and disciplined on outcomes. And you know I've said
on your show numerous times success isn't defined by how
much you spend a sessions and on the outcome, and
that requires focus.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Jinny.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
Would you we've got to spend money where we need
to expend it.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Jenny, how would you do it? Would you actually, if
you know you were in charge of finance, would you
label would you just borrow more?
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Well?
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Comparing the Zeland's economy to the household budget isn't a
good one because it doesn't look at all the opportunities.
And there's some good analysis to show that if you're
borrowing in the right areas that build infrastructure, that build jobs,
that get gross and there's some good merit because you
get that return back. And I'll give you the example
of the incentives that government did for the video gaming industry.
(10:40):
We provided a forty million dollar rebate. That industry went
from around five hundred million a year to just recently
close to seven fifty in this year. Seven hundred and
fifty million is what they're predicting for video game development
contributing to the New Zealand economy. If we back industries
in ways that grow our economies, that grow jobs and
(11:02):
give people more wages, that's the way to do it.
Not cutting the amount we fund doctors, nurses, teachers, police.
That just means that hard working key we are getting
less in your pocket and they can't get the services
they rely on.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
And by the way, Jindy, that video game they're budgeting
to be a billion dollar company within three years. I
mean it's growing and growing and growing. So yes, it
was a good initiative, Nichola. Mike, I want to come
to you on this one, Nicholas, not ruling out changes
to the five hundred and twenty dollars every key we
save gets from government each year. Does that make sense
to limit this to some earners, you know, basically looking
(11:39):
and seeing whether you've got enough or not enough?
Speaker 4 (11:42):
Okay, it is I said earlier, Nil, I'm certainly not
going to speculate on what decisions Nicola is going to
announce or announcements to be made in the budget, but
just in terms of what it would comment on in
terms of Jenny's comment, you know, we are very focused
on growth, and you know there aren't I know you
don't like the term, but there are. There is green
(12:03):
shirts floating around. And look at our export industry, primary sector.
Four point five billion extra from the dairy sector, one
point two billion extra from the sheep beef sector. There
is a significant upturn and a change in direction from
our export sector. And ultimately that's how we pay our bills.
And that's why it's really important to grow our economy.
(12:24):
And we do that. We actually laying the foundations so
that we can go and build the infrastructure and not
talk about it and go around around in circles for
ten or twenty years.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Mike. The problem that I've got with that is that
that industry you're farming in, your rural industry might be
making a lot of money, but that terrified is spending
anything because they don't know what's going to happen in
the world stage at the moment. So it doesn't actually
help the economy. It just makes their balances a bit bigger.
But they're not going out and buying new tractors. I
believe they're not going out and spending spending money that
(12:55):
can make the society better.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
No that is. That is not the case they in
our towns. In fact, I was talking to build an
empire to not yesterday the day four employees, five people.
In the last six weeks he's had so many jobs
come in that he's actually had to turn two down.
And we've got a number of building projects happening here
in Marsden and through the Greater wire Rapper region. So
(13:20):
there are certainly there is certainly change and there's a
little bit of confidence happening. So it is happening, albeit so,
but we are heading in the right direction.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Ginny, do you believe that it is happening? Do you
believe we're getting better?
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Business confidence is at its lowest level it has been
since the pandemic hit. It's bleak and Nick, you know
this yourself from the hospitality industry. Here in Wellington. We
have seen business after business shut their doors permanently because
people have been laid off. They've got no hope and
unemployment continues to grow. And this government solution is to
(13:57):
make more cuts. They think they're going to get us
out of a hole by simply cutting more, and no
one can see how that is actually going to work.
The only people it helps there's those money, those people
who have enough money to pay for private health and
to pay for private seritizens.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Okay, talking about Wellington, Wellington mayor Tory Faro has announced
you won't be seeking the mayoralty again. Mike, what do
you think her legacy is?
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Look, it's probably not for me to speculate on other
than I guess Wellington is going to get a new
new mayor anyway, it'll be the third third new mayor
in three terms, I guess. But yeah, I think there's
going to be a contest too, which is good for
the voters.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Do you think there is going to be a contest.
Do you really believe there's going to be a contest
or is it going to be a coronation?
Speaker 4 (14:44):
No? Look, I think there'll be a contest, and you know,
who knows who else might pop up out of the woodwork. Yes,
but I think you know, competition is healthy, so that's
got to be a good thing. And you know it's
there'll be new, new, new approach I guess to how
this rate payers money is spent, which will be a
good thing.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Jinny, have you had much to do with Tory Faro?
Speaker 3 (15:07):
I know Tory and and I think she's it's been
it's been tough for her at times, given the high
level of scrutiny she's been under. And I really do
wish all the best. I'm pleased she's she's staying in
politics and she's taking up the role going for the
Mardi Ward. I think she's still got a lot to offer.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Okay, then the skuy Andrew Little do you know him
at all? This guy that the coronation the coronation, I
can see the fight, I can.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
See and he was such a charismatic, outstanding individual, only
men in one no. Look, I think Andrew is what
we need to be honest. We need a level headed
person who's got strength, a bit of grit, and the
most important thing is that who can bring people together.
Wellington are just tired of this in fighting we've seen
(15:56):
in the council. We need a council that has consensus,
that can get things done, and I think Andrew's got
these skills, the experience and the right personality to make
that happen.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Ginny, Ginny, we get on pretty well. We've known each
other for a while. How the hell can you call
him charismatic? I mean I've already been him once and
I think he's going to be good. I'm not going
to be dogging on him. I'm not down on him.
But charismatic and Andrew Little it's like saying it looks
that says I've got the Arnold Swazenwika's good body of
(16:28):
when he was twenty years old.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Well, the thing I like the most about Andrew is
and he doesn't say much about politicians, but he's one
of the few i've met that his principles and he
actually operates and lives by those principles. And that's a
rare thing. You're often tested in politics when you were
what's popular and what's not and what he stands by.
He's always stood by what he believes.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
And I'm sure he's got and I'm sure he's got
that in bucket loads, Ginny, but he don't have that
word charisma. I'm sorry, I'll argue with that. It's going
let's move on.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
It's going on, young audience here.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I've won that. I've won that battle, Ginny. You cannot
argue that battle. Sorry, you cannot. Not this one. You're
not going to win with me. The government has announced
that they will ban all prisoners from voting and elections
after changes from the last government your government, Ginny, prisoners
sentenced to a term under three years can vote, but
(17:23):
the government is reversing this now, Ginny, you know I
disagree with it. Well, actually, Michael, I'm going to come
to you because I actually just I disagree with this.
I think that you know, sentenced to under three years
you should be able to vote because you're basically come
out in the voting cycle that you're voted for. I
disagree with your plan. Why is this you just singing
to your own choir and preaching to your own that
(17:44):
we're tough on crime? Is that just what this is?
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Pretty much?
Speaker 4 (17:47):
No, I'm asking Mike, that's absolutely not the case. And look,
we've been very clear and consistent about focusing on victims.
You know, no one, no one wakes up and chooses
to be a victim, do they, And people in terms
of offending, they have choices to make and they don't
have to make the choices they do sometimes, So when
(18:09):
you don't, when you choose not to be a participating
citizen in your community, there must be consequences. And so
that is one of the consequences. And we don't believe
that that's unreasonable and unfear you make the right choice.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Okay, we understand all that, but really you're coming back
into a society. You should be able to vote for
how that society looks. Ginny your thoughts.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
I think this is a sideshow and you nailed it.
It's national distracting people. The reality is we've had a
ninety six percent increase in methnptamine use in New Zealand.
We've had the Ministerial Advisory Group on Organized Crime saying
this government is losing the fight on organized crime with
Mexican cartail selling drugs here. These are the real issues
(18:57):
that drive the cycle of crime in New Zealand, not
something like this as a side issue. Look, my view
is yes, I think they should be able to vote,
but I think there are far more important issues to
do with law and order that this government is failing
to address.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Ginny Anders and Mike Butterick, thanks for joining us this morning. Ginny,
I hope you can get home tomorrow and if she
won't be able too bumpy right, Oh, I'm going to
look out my window with your landing tomorrow. I'm going
to enjoin that. I'm going to say it now, who's
got charisma, Ginny, That's what I'll be saying to myself.
Mike Butterick, enjoy the wind and the rain and the
wire Rapper. Thank you both for joining us. Catch you
(19:34):
next week.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
Hey, Thanks guys.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks There'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks ed B, focusing in on the issues
that matter politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings News Talks ed B.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Just before we start politics, fire an emergency. New Zealand
say they are responding to a steady stream of emergency
calls around the Wellington region. They are advising everyone to
tie down loose items as a result of this red
wind warning. This is, you know, the highest warning you
can get. So there we go, tie things down, be smart,
(00:50):
be sensible. Joining us this morning for politics Thursday is
Labor Police spokesperson Ginny Anderson. Good morning, Ginny, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Next.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Are you in the Wellington region right now?
Speaker 3 (01:03):
I flew out last night, so I'm actually an auctar
and I'm quite pleased I managed to make it out, okay,
because it seems like it's blowing a gale down there.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
When do you do back?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
I'm flying back tomorrow in the day.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
All going well, all going well? Yeah, okay, Well you
miss something here, National's wire wrapper MP. Mike butter Butterick,
are you over in the wire wrapper?
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Mic? Yeah, I am morning neck morning, Janet, Yeah, I am.
She's a bit. She's a bit blustering here, Nick.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, what are the conditions like for our wire rapper listeners?
I mean, what are they are? They are they bad?
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Yes, it's getting pretty untidy. I see that one's picked
up quite a bit in the last sort of half
hour hour. And I see I just hed there's a
slip on the rum attuckers there down to one lane.
But yet, No, we've had a good rain though we've
had there'll be a few happy cockies. There's a couple
of inches of rain and it's been pretty general. So
pennies from heaven neck pennies from heaven. But we could
do without the wind.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yeah, you're just like a cow cocky. Oh yeah, Yes,
it's getting a bit rough. It's blowing up for here.
Bit you're standing up sideways trying to get through the wind. Yeah,
it's a bit of wind, A little bit of wind,
all right. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
I heard there's also a slip on the wynoyamatohel which
has caused real issues in the huts ally as well.
I've had reports of that.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Okay, well, we'll keep you updated on that. If we
haven't heard that, but we'll we'll find out. Our newsroom
we'll find out about that. Thanks for that, Jinny. Well
let's start with Kiwi Rail, because I've been talking about
it for the last couple of hours. They have announced
that the inter Island Fairy Heratary will be retired, leaving
us with just two fairies until the new ones arrive
(02:34):
in twenty twenty nine. Ginny, the are attacking territary. Gosh
carry up to fifteen thousand people each week. How will
we cope without it?
Speaker 3 (02:46):
I don't know if we will. And it was just
completely reckless and are responsible of Nikola willis to cancel
that contract and grip it up without having a plan
in place. The irex plan we had would have delivered
faeries much quicker than what their plan does, and it
just continues to have an unacceptable level of unsuitained at
(03:07):
a time where our economy is already doing it tough.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, but the problem is we wouldn't have been able
to pay for it, and that's where the real issue
would be what happens.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
I would dispute that. I would dispute that. I think
there are ways. You know, this government has made choices
about how it spent its money. That found two point
nine billion dollars for tax breaks the landlords in two
hundred and sixteen million for tax breaks with the tobacco lobby.
I think there are poor choices that should have been
invested in things like court infrastructure to keep our our
main ferry lines open.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Well, we get to keep it to what we're talking about,
Mike Butterick. What happens if one of these two fairies breakdown?
Have you been told what's going to happen?
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Yeah, well, look, I mean fairy text in the last
I think the last four months i've been, they've been.
I don't think there's been any destruction at all, but
you know, talk about irresponsible. I mean the one point
two billion was going to blow out the sort of
stick afore but it was money that we didn't have.
But look, there is a plan and you know QB
rail is as they'll have now I'll get the I've
(04:05):
got to get the boat right. Don't know, we've got
the Kaiti kaiteka in the Kyler left. I think is
that correct? You know? So they're obviously working with freight
operators to get a plan going and work out how
they're going to do it, whether that may be an
extra salien or two. I'm not sure, but you know,
but the guts of it is though, you know, we
(04:26):
had to build a temporary fleet and you can't build
that when there's a boat in a way.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
But it's also been me Mike, let's cut to the
chase a little bit. I mean, we know, we know
Nikola Willis had a plan, but it wasn't rail enabled.
She was way advanced to us. Winston comes in, this
is the problem with the coalition. Winston comes in and says,
bangs the table a few times and says, no, give
it to me, I'll sort it. And we've gone back
(04:50):
and we still don't know what's going on.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
Well, no, I would dispute that there is a plan,
and there is a plan, and there's one thing. We're
looking forward to, new ferries both twenty twenty nine.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
You think we're looking forward to You're right, I mean,
there's no plan.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
The reality is there's a strong there is a strong
chance that we will have no ferries operating. If one
of those goes down, we are left exposed. That is
our main freight line, not only for tourism, but for
all of our import our goods that go up and
down the country. That is a real issue for security
of supply of goods in New Zealand and there will
(05:32):
be some big players, some big business in New Zealand
who are incredibly consumed that the Minister of Finance has
allowed this level of uncertainty to keep Jenny.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Should we have spent one hundred and twenty million dollars
over the five years to actually make sure that we
still had the services of three fairies in there and
the availability of roll on, roll off rail.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Service rail Nable is essential. We have always said that
it's the backbone of the country in terms of getting
goods and it's also a way of keeping our roads
intact and not relying.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
So so should we have spent one hundred and twenty
twenty million thing and twenty millions right, they wanted to
spend one hundred and twenty million would so that they
could keep that service going just for the four years.
That's basically what they would have had to spend on
port infrastructure. That's why they didn't do it. That's why
it's going.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Port infrastructure needs to be upgraded, irrespective of whatever the
fairies were there. That there is aging.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
This was specific for the Rataria. It wasn't for the
new fairies. This was just about enable them to still
use Orataria. So I personally, I don't think that's that
was the right thing to do, just spend one hundred
and twenty million for something that wasn't was only there
for temporarily for four years.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
The problem came when there was a plan in place
for rail enabled ferries and port infrastructure in that contract
was torn up. We still don't know exactly what the
cost it is, but we know it. We know it's
in the hundreds of millions that taxposers had to walk
out for whatever the cost trying to cobble together the deal.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Sorry Gilly to interrupt you, but whatever the cost, they're
going to pay into significance against the cost if we'd
carried on with your deal. I'm sorry that was the
I disagree.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
I disagree, and I think there's been some poor information available.
The cost budgeted and we saw that in the cabinet
paper was approximately three hundred million dollars to exit from
that contract with high und Now that is an absolute
waste of money. We don't get anything for that. If
we had have kept on track with a plan to
(07:33):
have rail enabled. Theories with the appropriate infrastructure, we would
have certainty about when we'll actually have some theories between
the two major islands.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Okay, well, let's just hope. Let's just hope, beyond all
hope that Winston's got to deal with high und that
combines the new build with the old costs and we
don't end up with a big build. Politics Thursday with
Mike Butterick and Ginny Anderson. Just before we start again,
hundreds of properties are without power around the Wellington region.
We have had reports of trees down in Central Low
(08:04):
Heart which has caused power outages, and there's some properties
without power in Ohario, Seatoon, mirama Eestbourne, Newlands and Seaview.
There's also significant surface flooding in some of those areas
and Seaview according to the latest reports. We're keeping you
completely up to date with the red alert that's been
issued by METS Service. Right back to politics and please
(08:26):
keep us up to date with anything that's going on.
Let's talk budget. Finance Minister Nichola Willis has given herself
barely any new money this budget and most of the
money she's got has already been spent. She says. Billions
have been found by cutting other projects. Ginny, ginny, ginny,
ginny cuts the right thing to do right now in
the economy.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
They're not nick And so what we've seen from the
previous budget is that these cuts, these job losses, and
the tax take is reduced because the government's got least money.
These more cuts jobs are cuts again and is less
tax take. We're locked in a downward spiral and it's
really concerning that the government has no plan to actually
get growth and get us out of it. And just
(09:09):
cutting more would mean we don't have doctors. They're striking
out because they can't afford to pay them. It's going
to cause some significant problems for us in the long run,
and it's looking pretty bleak, Mike.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
This is the lowest amount of new spending since twenty fifteen.
Back then the economy was great, buoy and happy. Now
it's not should we consider just keep borrowing or a
little bit.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
No, it's the old economics one oh one, and that
you've got to learn to live within your means, and
we've got we need to be fiscally disciplined, you know,
And you know it's certainly not my place to wait
in a speculator on what the budget is going to
look like you're gonna have to hurry up and wait
for that. But you know, we've actually got to be
(09:52):
focused and disciplined on outcomes. And you know I've said
on your show numerous times success isn't defined by how
much you spend a sessions and on the outcome, and
that requires focus.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Jinny.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
Would you we've got to spend money where we need
to expend it.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Jenny, how would you do it? Would you actually, if
you know you were in charge of finance, would you
label would you just borrow more?
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Well?
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Comparing the Zeland's economy to the household budget isn't a
good one because it doesn't look at all the opportunities.
And there's some good analysis to show that if you're
borrowing in the right areas that build infrastructure, that build jobs,
that get gross and there's some good merit because you
get that return back. And I'll give you the example
of the incentives that government did for the video gaming industry.
(10:40):
We provided a forty million dollar rebate. That industry went
from around five hundred million a year to just recently
close to seven fifty in this year. Seven hundred and
fifty million is what they're predicting for video game development
contributing to the New Zealand economy. If we back industries
in ways that grow our economies, that grow jobs and
(11:02):
give people more wages, that's the way to do it.
Not cutting the amount we fund doctors, nurses, teachers, police.
That just means that hard working key we are getting
less in your pocket and they can't get the services
they rely on.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
And by the way, Jindy, that video game they're budgeting
to be a billion dollar company within three years. I
mean it's growing and growing and growing. So yes, it
was a good initiative, Nichola. Mike, I want to come
to you on this one, Nicholas, not ruling out changes
to the five hundred and twenty dollars every key we
save gets from government each year. Does that make sense
to limit this to some earners, you know, basically looking
(11:39):
and seeing whether you've got enough or not enough?
Speaker 4 (11:42):
Okay, it is I said earlier, Nil, I'm certainly not
going to speculate on what decisions Nicola is going to
announce or announcements to be made in the budget, but
just in terms of what it would comment on in
terms of Jenny's comment, you know, we are very focused
on growth, and you know there aren't I know you
don't like the term, but there are. There is green
(12:03):
shirts floating around. And look at our export industry, primary sector.
Four point five billion extra from the dairy sector, one
point two billion extra from the sheep beef sector. There
is a significant upturn and a change in direction from
our export sector. And ultimately that's how we pay our bills.
And that's why it's really important to grow our economy.
(12:24):
And we do that. We actually laying the foundations so
that we can go and build the infrastructure and not
talk about it and go around around in circles for
ten or twenty years.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Mike. The problem that I've got with that is that
that industry you're farming in, your rural industry might be
making a lot of money, but that terrified is spending
anything because they don't know what's going to happen in
the world stage at the moment. So it doesn't actually
help the economy. It just makes their balances a bit bigger.
But they're not going out and buying new tractors. I
believe they're not going out and spending spending money that
(12:55):
can make the society better.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
No that is. That is not the case they in
our towns. In fact, I was talking to build an
empire to not yesterday the day four employees, five people.
In the last six weeks he's had so many jobs
come in that he's actually had to turn two down.
And we've got a number of building projects happening here
in Marsden and through the Greater wire Rapper region. So
(13:20):
there are certainly there is certainly change and there's a
little bit of confidence happening. So it is happening, albeit so,
but we are heading in the right direction.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Ginny, do you believe that it is happening? Do you
believe we're getting better?
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Business confidence is at its lowest level it has been
since the pandemic hit. It's bleak and Nick, you know
this yourself from the hospitality industry. Here in Wellington. We
have seen business after business shut their doors permanently because
people have been laid off. They've got no hope and
unemployment continues to grow. And this government solution is to
(13:57):
make more cuts. They think they're going to get us
out of a hole by simply cutting more, and no
one can see how that is actually going to work.
The only people it helps there's those money, those people
who have enough money to pay for private health and
to pay for private seritizens.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Okay, talking about Wellington, Wellington mayor Tory Faro has announced
you won't be seeking the mayoralty again. Mike, what do
you think her legacy is?
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Look, it's probably not for me to speculate on other
than I guess Wellington is going to get a new
new mayor anyway, it'll be the third third new mayor
in three terms, I guess. But yeah, I think there's
going to be a contest too, which is good for
the voters.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Do you think there is going to be a contest.
Do you really believe there's going to be a contest
or is it going to be a coronation?
Speaker 4 (14:44):
No? Look, I think there'll be a contest, and you know,
who knows who else might pop up out of the woodwork. Yes,
but I think you know, competition is healthy, so that's
got to be a good thing. And you know it's
there'll be new, new, new approach I guess to how
this rate payers money is spent, which will be a
good thing.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Jinny, have you had much to do with Tory Faro?
Speaker 3 (15:07):
I know Tory and and I think she's it's been
it's been tough for her at times, given the high
level of scrutiny she's been under. And I really do
wish all the best. I'm pleased she's she's staying in
politics and she's taking up the role going for the
Mardi Ward. I think she's still got a lot to offer.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Okay, then the skuy Andrew Little do you know him
at all? This guy that the coronation the coronation, I
can see the fight, I can.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
See and he was such a charismatic, outstanding individual, only
men in one no. Look, I think Andrew is what
we need to be honest. We need a level headed
person who's got strength, a bit of grit, and the
most important thing is that who can bring people together.
Wellington are just tired of this in fighting we've seen
(15:56):
in the council. We need a council that has consensus,
that can get things done, and I think Andrew's got
these skills, the experience and the right personality to make
that happen.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Ginny, Ginny, we get on pretty well. We've known each
other for a while. How the hell can you call
him charismatic? I mean I've already been him once and
I think he's going to be good. I'm not going
to be dogging on him. I'm not down on him.
But charismatic and Andrew Little it's like saying it looks
that says I've got the Arnold Swazenwika's good body of
(16:28):
when he was twenty years old.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Well, the thing I like the most about Andrew is
and he doesn't say much about politicians, but he's one
of the few i've met that his principles and he
actually operates and lives by those principles. And that's a
rare thing. You're often tested in politics when you were
what's popular and what's not and what he stands by.
He's always stood by what he believes.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
And I'm sure he's got and I'm sure he's got
that in bucket loads, Ginny, but he don't have that
word charisma. I'm sorry, I'll argue with that. It's going
let's move on.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
It's going on, young audience here.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I've won that. I've won that battle, Ginny. You cannot
argue that battle. Sorry, you cannot. Not this one. You're
not going to win with me. The government has announced
that they will ban all prisoners from voting and elections
after changes from the last government your government, Ginny, prisoners
sentenced to a term under three years can vote, but
(17:23):
the government is reversing this now, Ginny, you know I
disagree with it. Well, actually, Michael, I'm going to come
to you because I actually just I disagree with this.
I think that you know, sentenced to under three years
you should be able to vote because you're basically come
out in the voting cycle that you're voted for. I
disagree with your plan. Why is this you just singing
to your own choir and preaching to your own that
(17:44):
we're tough on crime? Is that just what this is?
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Pretty much?
Speaker 4 (17:47):
No, I'm asking Mike, that's absolutely not the case. And look,
we've been very clear and consistent about focusing on victims.
You know, no one, no one wakes up and chooses
to be a victim, do they, And people in terms
of offending, they have choices to make and they don't
have to make the choices they do sometimes, So when
(18:09):
you don't, when you choose not to be a participating
citizen in your community, there must be consequences. And so
that is one of the consequences. And we don't believe
that that's unreasonable and unfear you make the right choice.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Okay, we understand all that, but really you're coming back
into a society. You should be able to vote for
how that society looks. Ginny your thoughts.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
I think this is a sideshow and you nailed it.
It's national distracting people. The reality is we've had a
ninety six percent increase in methnptamine use in New Zealand.
We've had the Ministerial Advisory Group on Organized Crime saying
this government is losing the fight on organized crime with
Mexican cartail selling drugs here. These are the real issues
(18:57):
that drive the cycle of crime in New Zealand, not
something like this as a side issue. Look, my view
is yes, I think they should be able to vote,
but I think there are far more important issues to
do with law and order that this government is failing
to address.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Ginny Anders and Mike Butterick, thanks for joining us this morning. Ginny,
I hope you can get home tomorrow and if she
won't be able too bumpy right, Oh, I'm going to
look out my window with your landing tomorrow. I'm going
to enjoin that. I'm going to say it now, who's
got charisma, Ginny, That's what I'll be saying to myself.
Mike Butterick, enjoy the wind and the rain and the
wire Rapper. Thank you both for joining us. Catch you
(19:34):
next week.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
Hey, Thanks guys.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks There'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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