US President Donald Trump has pledged to introduce a 100 per cent tariff on all films produced outside of the United States - and while details are light, it could have a large impact on New Zealand's growing film production sector.
To discuss what it could mean, film and television producer and former South Pacific Pictures boss John Barnett joined Nick Mills.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks B.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Joining us now is John Barnett, longtime producer and former
boss of South Pacific Pictures, the company behind the likes
of the Whale Rider, Shortened Street, Outrageous Fortune.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Good morning, John, Good morning, How are you.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I'm good. Thank you. Tell us your immediate reaction when
you heard that Trump wants to introduce one hundred percent
tariff on movies.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Well, confusion because I'm not sure where the tariffs being,
who it's going to be imposed on, how it's going
to operate. And also, really, if you're looking from the
American point of view and the studios, they're about the
creation of IP and the continued exploitation of that. And
(00:57):
really what everybody seems to have been to be concerned
about is the actual production process, which is really like
you know, we want to well, they haven't thought about
intellectual property. There's a really interesting issue about legally, he
(01:17):
actually can't do this because there's an international law which
prevents this kind of thing, and actually Congress past the
law barring the president from regulating the import or export
of things like movies, books, and music and it's known
(01:39):
as the Burman I think the Burman Amendment of the
International Emergency Economic Powers exempts informational materials from import restrictions.
I think the biggest issue is that nobody, quite nobody
knows really what he's teriffing and who's going to pay it,
(02:03):
and where it's going to have an impact, and that
creates uncertainty, and that's what's got people really upset and concerned.
But he has backed down from these things before, and
I think it's a bit early to be, you know,
too concerned. I mean, I think one of the things
(02:25):
that you see in New Zealand is that, putting aside
the major productions of Avatar and the things that we
are doing, nearly every significant television production that's made here
has got a distributor contribution, often from an American distributor
(02:49):
to the project, and no one knows whether that's going
to be taxed. Because if that was taxed, it would
have an impact, it would be more it would mean
less money was available. But if you look at something
like Minecraft, which was shot here, if you produced it
for us and it costs another three hundred million dollars,
(03:10):
it wouldn't make any more of the box office, so
that US company's profit would fall as opposed to increasing
their economic well being.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Surely the one thing that your industry doesn't need is uncertainty,
and you mentioned that.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yes, that is right, that is right.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
So we have now got uncertainty, haven't we. And big
production might be sitting there, they might be meeting with
these producers now and trying to sort out a deal.
Are they going to sit back and wait?
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yes? Yes, And that's not good for us because you know,
if somebody thought they were had a job in August
or September, but now they're having to wait until this
is resolved, there is necessary in another job to fill
that gap. So from a production point of view, yes,
(04:06):
there are issues, but I don't see how Sorry, I
think this is an issue on which the whole world
industry is of one mind about it. The US studios
(04:29):
don't want to give up the benefits of shooting in
another country, and the countries like US want them to
keep shooting here. The US industry wants to create IP
and exploit it for a long time, and this is
going to threaten that. And the same with the IP
(04:50):
that's created in other countries. That American businesses are participants,
so it's a debtrim mental pact. I mean, the quickest
way to enhance the American production industry is to create
the kind of incentives that we have here and that
lots of other countries have.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
That was my next question to you, John Barney, and
I was about to say, well, if Trump wants to,
why does he actually make the incentives back in America.
That would turn things around pretty damn quickly, and that
would be pretty devastating for our industry, wouldn't it.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
That would be very devastating. But interestingly, if you look
at other manufacturing businesses, a number of sectors in the
US have said some kind of incentive to produce in
the US as opposed to China would do the business
(05:41):
much better than the tariff. But Pete Nabaro is standing
there in the back siying tariffs are the only answer,
and they worked in the nineteen thirties. Well they didn't,
but you know that's what he's going back to. I mean,
he hasn't got any evidence to show the tariffs in
today's market are of any benefit. But Trump has not
(06:02):
wanted to put incentives in any industry.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
John, can you give us some perspective of really just
how big the industry has grown in your career.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Enormously. I mean, I've been doing this now for fifty years,
but when we started, it wouldn't have been about you know,
three or four million dollar industry. I think the production
industry day would be about a billion and a half.
Currently about a billion of that is actually coming from
the big budget of productions, the advertise in the minecraft
(06:38):
and the things like that. But the New Zealand industry
has grown into a sophisticated structure with selling content all
around the world and employing lots of people, and all
of that is you know, it's an industry that really
(06:58):
began in the anticipation of selling everything it makes offshore.
Because we're only we were only four million people or
only five million people today, that's not a market. So
we have to look at the whole world right from
the start, and that's been the truth in almost every country.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yesterday's yesterday's announcement, John, Sorry to interrupt you there, but
I just really want to ask you this yesterday's announcement.
You're sitting in front of your computer. You're about to
plan and put together a big movie in New Zealand
what would you do? Would it stop you from doing
it or would you just carry on and have the
confidence that it's going to work out.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Okay, Dan is a.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Very good point, because we have a very big project
on the on the table at the moment that does
anticipate does anticipate the significant of sure participation, and I
think that you know we're not going to stop, but
we but it does mean that the timetables will shift
(08:04):
because we need certainty and we don't and have certainty,
and so you know that is where the impacts are
fell first. So you've got in the production industry people
who will be worried about where they're going to get
work at post production of houses, that are thinking where
we go to get and our customers from because the
(08:28):
local industry isn't the local production industry hasn't big enough
to meet all the demands of the infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
John Barnett, thank you very much for joining us. I
really appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule.
Good luck with that project that you're on and hopefully
it'll come to for us, and hopefully Trump will give
you a call and do a deal with you and
have a chat and sort it out, but we look
forward to it and thank you for taking the time
this morning.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
John Barnett their longtime producer, former boss of South Pacific
Pictures and he's working on a big project right now.
He's got a project on his table. Whatsome.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks B.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Joining us now is John Barnett, longtime producer and former
boss of South Pacific Pictures, the company behind the likes
of the Whale Rider, Shortened Street, Outrageous Fortune.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Good morning, John, Good morning, How are you.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I'm good. Thank you. Tell us your immediate reaction when
you heard that Trump wants to introduce one hundred percent
tariff on movies.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Well, confusion because I'm not sure where the tariffs being,
who it's going to be imposed on, how it's going
to operate. And also, really, if you're looking from the
American point of view and the studios, they're about the
creation of IP and the continued exploitation of that. And
(00:57):
really what everybody seems to have been to be concerned
about is the actual production process, which is really like
you know, we want to well, they haven't thought about
intellectual property. There's a really interesting issue about legally, he
(01:17):
actually can't do this because there's an international law which
prevents this kind of thing, and actually Congress past the
law barring the president from regulating the import or export
of things like movies, books, and music and it's known
(01:39):
as the Burman I think the Burman Amendment of the
International Emergency Economic Powers exempts informational materials from import restrictions.
I think the biggest issue is that nobody, quite nobody
knows really what he's teriffing and who's going to pay it,
(02:03):
and where it's going to have an impact, and that
creates uncertainty, and that's what's got people really upset and concerned.
But he has backed down from these things before, and
I think it's a bit early to be, you know,
too concerned. I mean, I think one of the things
(02:25):
that you see in New Zealand is that, putting aside
the major productions of Avatar and the things that we
are doing, nearly every significant television production that's made here
has got a distributor contribution, often from an American distributor
(02:49):
to the project, and no one knows whether that's going
to be taxed. Because if that was taxed, it would
have an impact, it would be more it would mean
less money was available. But if you look at something
like Minecraft, which was shot here, if you produced it
for us and it costs another three hundred million dollars,
(03:10):
it wouldn't make any more of the box office, so
that US company's profit would fall as opposed to increasing
their economic well being.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Surely the one thing that your industry doesn't need is uncertainty,
and you mentioned that.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yes, that is right, that is right.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
So we have now got uncertainty, haven't we. And big
production might be sitting there, they might be meeting with
these producers now and trying to sort out a deal.
Are they going to sit back and wait?
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yes? Yes, And that's not good for us because you know,
if somebody thought they were had a job in August
or September, but now they're having to wait until this
is resolved, there is necessary in another job to fill
that gap. So from a production point of view, yes,
(04:06):
there are issues, but I don't see how Sorry, I
think this is an issue on which the whole world
industry is of one mind about it. The US studios
(04:29):
don't want to give up the benefits of shooting in
another country, and the countries like US want them to
keep shooting here. The US industry wants to create IP
and exploit it for a long time, and this is
going to threaten that. And the same with the IP
(04:50):
that's created in other countries. That American businesses are participants,
so it's a debtrim mental pact. I mean, the quickest
way to enhance the American production industry is to create
the kind of incentives that we have here and that
lots of other countries have.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
That was my next question to you, John Barney, and
I was about to say, well, if Trump wants to,
why does he actually make the incentives back in America.
That would turn things around pretty damn quickly, and that
would be pretty devastating for our industry, wouldn't it.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
That would be very devastating. But interestingly, if you look
at other manufacturing businesses, a number of sectors in the
US have said some kind of incentive to produce in
the US as opposed to China would do the business
(05:41):
much better than the tariff. But Pete Nabaro is standing
there in the back siying tariffs are the only answer,
and they worked in the nineteen thirties. Well they didn't,
but you know that's what he's going back to. I mean,
he hasn't got any evidence to show the tariffs in
today's market are of any benefit. But Trump has not
(06:02):
wanted to put incentives in any industry.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
John, can you give us some perspective of really just
how big the industry has grown in your career.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Enormously. I mean, I've been doing this now for fifty years,
but when we started, it wouldn't have been about you know,
three or four million dollar industry. I think the production
industry day would be about a billion and a half.
Currently about a billion of that is actually coming from
the big budget of productions, the advertise in the minecraft
(06:38):
and the things like that. But the New Zealand industry
has grown into a sophisticated structure with selling content all
around the world and employing lots of people, and all
of that is you know, it's an industry that really
(06:58):
began in the anticipation of selling everything it makes offshore.
Because we're only we were only four million people or
only five million people today, that's not a market. So
we have to look at the whole world right from
the start, and that's been the truth in almost every country.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yesterday's yesterday's announcement, John, Sorry to interrupt you there, but
I just really want to ask you this yesterday's announcement.
You're sitting in front of your computer. You're about to
plan and put together a big movie in New Zealand
what would you do? Would it stop you from doing
it or would you just carry on and have the
confidence that it's going to work out.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Okay, Dan is a.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Very good point, because we have a very big project
on the on the table at the moment that does
anticipate does anticipate the significant of sure participation, and I
think that you know we're not going to stop, but
we but it does mean that the timetables will shift
(08:04):
because we need certainty and we don't and have certainty,
and so you know that is where the impacts are
fell first. So you've got in the production industry people
who will be worried about where they're going to get
work at post production of houses, that are thinking where
we go to get and our customers from because the
(08:28):
local industry isn't the local production industry hasn't big enough
to meet all the demands of the infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
John Barnett, thank you very much for joining us. I
really appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule.
Good luck with that project that you're on and hopefully
it'll come to for us, and hopefully Trump will give
you a call and do a deal with you and
have a chat and sort it out, but we look
forward to it and thank you for taking the time
this morning.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
John Barnett their longtime producer, former boss of South Pacific
Pictures and he's working on a big project right now.
He's got a project on his table. Whatsome.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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