May 12, 2025 • 31 mins
They are two Wellington organisations who have just spent millions of dollars on new projects - so how did they get them off the ground?
In the Wellington City Mission's case, last year they opened Whakamaru - with a new cafe and safe transitional housing for the city's most vulnerable - and today they also launched a brand new catering business with profits going straight back to the mission.
For Circa Theatre, the Wellington institution has opened a new bar and restaurant, Chouchou.
To discuss the projects, and the challenges facing both organisations, Nick was joined by Wellington City Missioner Rev. Murray Edridge and Circa Theatre's general manager Caroline Armstrong.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk sed B. Yes, Mondays meaning business. It's
the business panel on Wellington Mornings with Quinovic Property Management,
a better rental experience for all. Visit Quinovic dot co
dot inshead.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Joining us for our business panel this week is I'm
pretty excited by it too, Wellington City Missioner Murray.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Edwards Marty Murray, good morning, Nick.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
How are you?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I'm well, indeed you're looking well, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
And Circa Theater General Manager Caroline Armstrong Morning, Caroline morning,
how you doing?
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Great? Beautiful day out there in Wellington.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Love it and Circa is looking amazing.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
It looks beautiful.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Were you part of the whole part of the whole
build and the whole revamp and everything.
Speaker 5 (00:54):
I've lived through the entire construction. Yes, so yeah, it's
been interesting times, but we're really glad it's finished.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It looks magnificent. Driving past, it looks magnificent. I've always
loved It's a great spot and I've always loved it,
so it's magnificent. Murray, I'm going to start with you.
It's been a couple of years for the mission. It's
been a tough couple of years for us, all people
doing it tough, rising unemployment, in the opening of Fakamadu,
(01:21):
how's it all going? Give us a little rundown of
the world of Murray Terage right now.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Right, well, let me give you a snapshot of how
I think the world is. So last year, of course,
big year for us. We celebrated one hundred and twenty
years of being the Worlington City Mission, so serving the
communities of Wellington and like. That is cause for celebration
because it's an acknowledgment of the work that people have done.
But it's also a cause for I don't know, anxiety, disappointment,
(01:49):
perhaps on two fronts. The first is, at one hundred
and twenty years after we started, we still need to
be here. And my aspiration, as it is for all
my predecessors, was to close the doors one day because
they no longer need us. Now that's no time soon.
The second disappointment is I think, and this not evidence
space this is my opinion. But when you look back
(02:10):
on those one hundred and twenty year history of the
City Mission, there are very few occasions, just a handful,
I think, where life has been tougher than it is
for people today, and I guess they're occasioned by world
wars and great depressions. It's that hard out there. So
people are doing life really, really tough, and our job
(02:30):
is to get alongside them and to make sure we
as a community respond in the appropriate way. So that's
what we do, and that's what Fokka Mudu is all about.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
And how's your work changed in the last few years? So,
I mean, you've got sort of for me from the
outside looking up and that I haven't been. I'm going
to come up and have a lot. It feels like
you're becoming more of a commer and there's a lot
of food in front of us, which we'll talk about shortly.
You're becoming more of a commercially minded charity. Would that
be a fair.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
No, wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
I wouldn't pitch it like that. We do have to
be commercially minded because we have to pay the bills
and the way we're choosing to do our business is
more expensive than it used to be. And can I
can talk about that because but we're seeing needs that
are greater than they've ever been. We're seeing more complexity
and more challenge for the people that are disadvantaged, and
(03:22):
that's primarily around mental health and addiction issues and we
see it. We see it every day in our streets.
So we've got more people, less support less hope, I
think two of those people because there's not enough response
to the needs that they're demonstrating. So we have a
community that is really struggling. Our response to that has
got to be better and has got to be bigger.
(03:42):
And that's what Fokkomoto is supposed to do.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
We'll come back to that and we'll discuss it more
during the hour. Carolyn Armstrong is the GM of Circu
Theater and Carolyn, I want to I want to know
exactly what the situation is now. You've don't spend all
this money, you've revamped completely Circle Theater. Why how?
Speaker 5 (04:04):
Because well it begins because we had a leaky conservatory
and this was many This was years ago before I
became a came owners general manager. But so there was
part of the building was leaking and it was decided
to repair it. But of course, when you've got Dame
Carolyn henwood On as a founding member of your organization,
(04:26):
she thought bigger and better and if we're going to
do this. We're going to do it properly. So we
had an amazing fundraiser at the theater, Chrissy Bolton, who
worked really hard with Dame Carolyn raising the fund's support
from lottery support from Wellington City Council. And now we
have this amazing new space opening up to the waterfront,
(04:47):
which was our whole intention. We're in that great spot
and we were kind of closed off.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Who owned it.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
The circu Council owned the building. Okay, so that's the
governance of the of Circa Theater, So they owned the
building and so then it was the historic facade, the
leaky roof, the leaky conservatory, everything fixed, but in a
really beautiful way of opening up not just the building
to the harbor, but the theater to the harbit. Because
(05:13):
the theater is working forty eight weeks a year, is
a busy, busy place, and so that was the thinking
behind it.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
How many people can you fit into the theater for
an event? I mean obviously it would change on the
size of the production that you're doing.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
Yeah, well we have two venues, so Circa one is
a two hundred and twenty seater. That's our big venue.
And then we have Circa two, which seats one hundred,
so on a night we can have three hundred and
twenty people going through the building. So last year our
numbers were around fifty thousand, and we support local and
national artists. So that's the big thing behind Circa is
(05:49):
that we program over a twelve month period and we
have between two hundred and three hundred creatives coming into
the building. So that's not just actors, that's lighting designers,
costume designers, set designers, publicist producers. So it's a busy
building with usually two shows on and then during the
day two shows. The next two shows also rehearsing in
(06:11):
the building.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
When I was teasing the fact that you were coming
on the show, I said that when I was growing up,
I felt Wellington was the theater capital of New Zealand.
I mean, Hannah Playhouse was all over New Zealand. People
talked about it, movie stars and stars became stars out
of working out a theater in Wellington. Would that be
(06:34):
over exaggerating.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
I don't think it's over exaggerating. I mean Bats Theater
is where a lot of young young work develops from
and I worked there in my youth. My husband Dave
wrote and worked there in his youth. Tiger and Jermaine
who came out of that, and Britt McKenzie all came
out of the Bats theater world and then the Hannah Playhouse.
I used to work downstage many years ago, and so
(07:00):
cultural we call ourselves the cultural capital. I think we
have to be a little careful about that, but certainly
theatre is busy and alive in this.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Can I ask you how all three of a Canna playhouse.
I've got what is it called? What do you call
down stage? What's it called now? Downstage?
Speaker 4 (07:14):
It's called Hannah Playhouse now, yeah, but it.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Used to be downstage of course, how do all three
of you work together?
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Well, we do.
Speaker 5 (07:23):
We don't actually sit down and say this is what
we're doing, what are you doing?
Speaker 4 (07:27):
What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
So there's no coordination of like so they could run
a big event, a big show one day and you
could run another showltly.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
But if we are going to do something really major
like Circle, our spaces usually has shows that around eight
or you know, eight is a big cast for our building.
So we don't do huge works. We do a lot
of medium sized works. But we also if there was
something that we were going to do that was massive.
(07:54):
Of course, we would have to engage with other venues
around the town.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
So how who decides what shows go on?
Speaker 5 (08:03):
We have quite a unique process at CIRCA, So we
have the Circuit Council we call we just put out
nationwide call for pictures, so people pitch their idea, pitch
there what they are thinking they would like to do.
Then we have a panel of readers who read all
of those and they're external, they're outside of the building,
(08:24):
so they read everything and then they make a short
short list which then goes to Circuit Council, and then
people pitch in person with their ideas and from that,
Circuit Council programs the two venues.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
It's okay, right now we know what everyone does and
how they do it. Let's talk about general stuff for
both of you. What is the biggest challenges Murray in
your work? Both? You know you're in the business world.
You've got to bring money in. You know, you've got
to make it work. You've got to help the people
that you both help. How do you do how? What
is it? What's the biggest task?
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Look, I think the biggest task is ensuring that we
respond appropriately to the need we're seeing in our community now, well,
that requires a whole lot of things, including raising a
whole lot of money. As I said before, we haven't
chosen to do it a cheap way. We've chosen to
do it in a way that is most beneficial to
people's outcomes, that preserves people's dignity in a whole lot
(09:21):
of ways. Now that doesn't come cheap. So a big
part of my job is ensuring that we get the
appropriate support, whether that's government, local government, or whether that's
the community. Because we have an incredibly generous community in
Wellington and we see that generosity comes from on so
many occasions. So we built Facomoto. It was like Caroline,
you know, major building project has taken us six years.
(09:44):
We originally bought a building we were going to it
was an old building, we were going to do it up.
There was a five million dollar budget. Six years later
we opened Fokomot who fifty million dollars debt free as
of the month or the month after we opened, and
largely because of the generosity of the public. Now, the
reason that's important is that all money that comes into
(10:04):
the building then goes directly back to the community. But
the purpose of fokomart who is to support the community
to learn how to care for itself. So it's really
us just holding the space and allowing the community to
community to understand how they respond to needs in the community.
So it's cool.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
You know, you're listening to the Business Panel, which we
do every couple of weeks on a Monday. Today we
have Caroline Armstrong and Murray iteris Caroline, I wanted to
come to you before the break. We're talking about operational
challenges of running a business because it is a business.
Even though it's a charity organization that it is, it's
a business. It's got to run like a business. How
(10:43):
is the economy impacted on theater? I mean sometimes we're
hearing shows are doing amazing and some are doing, you know,
not so amazing, and it feels like a bit up
and down.
Speaker 5 (10:54):
Tell us your experience it is, Well, it's always up
and down. That's just the nature of what we do.
So you can put on a comedy and people are
looking for a laugh, so they book for a comedy.
You put on something serious that addresses in a shoe
that people are motivated by or interested in. A serious
quite heavy work can do really good box office business.
(11:15):
The problem is we can never predict. We don't have
a crystal ball, and we program twelve months out, so
if something happens in the community, like a lot of
public servants lose their jobs. And our core audience is
an older audience, which we are trying to change.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
We're trying to.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
You know, trying to make the young theatery thing.
Speaker 5 (11:32):
Yeah, we're trying to bring in a new, younger audience
because that's the only way that we can survive. But
we've been you know, next year as Circus fiftieth birthday,
So we've been around a while and we've negotiated the
apps and downs for many many years. But we have
to work really proactively. So every show we do, we
(11:53):
put on you know, if you book early, we have
early bird ticket prices, we have to pay what you
choose nights which you can get a ticket for fifteen
dollars that might normally cost you sixty, and we have
preview specials and some special so we have to constantly
look at how we can increase our people coming through
the door.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
How do you actually work if the numbers aren't there,
I mean it does a charity have to pay or
does it if it goes through some hard times you
just have to knock a couple of staff of from
keep going.
Speaker 5 (12:23):
No, we just keep going. And the way that it
works for the artists who are working in our building,
they are supported by the Theater Artist's Charitable Trust, which
is it that money goes directly to them, and then
CIRCA works with every production on a profit share. So
if the show does really well, both team, both sides
of that agreement do really well. If a show isn't
(12:45):
doing well, the biggest part of my job is keeping
morale up because you can't make people come to something
that they just doesn't appeal.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
How does it? And this is the question of you,
both of you, and I ask you Murray first, how
does it change things? And you've both been through exactly
the same thing where you've just spent millions and millions
of dollars? How does it change the financial model of
the city mission? Now that you've got all these assets
that need you know, I know you say your freehold,
but you obviously still have to pay insurance and you
(13:18):
still have to pay cost and maintenance and all the
things like that. How do you how does it work?
Speaker 5 (13:23):
Well? There?
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Are things we're grappling with it because you know, we're
new in the building. We knew some of those costs
and some of them are still still being discovered. But
the costs of our services are going up as well.
You know, we pay in excess of the living wage
to all of our staff, and we choose to do that,
but then the living wage goes up, and of course
the costs go up. So you know, it is about
(13:44):
ensuring that we continue to provide the level of service
that the community most needs from us. And that means
sometimes I've just got to work a bit harder to
go out there and convince people that actually supporting us
means we can continue to do what we do and
do it well. I mean, you know, government, we get
good support from government, We get some support from council,
(14:05):
but the general public are amazing and the ability to
go to the general public, and i mean our client
argibe much like Caroline's. The older population are incredibly generous
and what they what they see a need in the
community and their response to that. But everybody's under pressure
at the moment. Everybody's facing some limitations and that tightens
(14:28):
it down for every single household.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
And the same circuit. I mean, someone spent a lot
of money there. You need to show some sort of return.
How do you do it?
Speaker 5 (14:37):
Well that the new Barren Cafe, of course, is paying
a rental to us, so that support helps to support
the operations of the building and the people who work
in it.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, is that working for it?
Speaker 5 (14:52):
Yes, definitely, definitely. It's a busy place from seven in
the morning till late at night.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Oh really, because I've been there a couple of times
and I've been the only person in there.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
Oh, You've come at the wrong time.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
I must have come at the wrong time.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, I thought I thought that was a little bit
of a letdown of the Circus theater. I thought that
it would have been a more creative type cafe or restaurant,
you know, like because it's such a great iconic artist
place in it. I mean, it's a beautiful place. I'm
not don't get me wrong, but it was kind of
like I thought that it would be a theater the
theater based cafe. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
They we didn't want to go down that track. So
it's a bar and a restaurant in its own right.
But if you're there on occasions you're going to see
crazy stuff happen, like actors running through making entrances during shows.
And we've got an upcoming show that tis Maturiki Spectacular.
They're going to have to rehearse in there because that's
where the show is. So if you're having dinner, you're
(15:46):
most likely going to see some rehearsal going on and
some weird theater stuff. But yeah, it's it's absolutely it
is what it is, and it is.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
Working really well. That's great the people on the waterfront.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
That's very good news because there's a lot of you know,
competition on that order for sure is yeah. So so
how does that, I mean, how does that help you?
Does that actually help you get people in?
Speaker 5 (16:09):
Well, when the waterfront's busy and then people come in
to have a drink or to get something to eat,
then they're confronted in our space by what's coming up,
what's on now? The box offices right there, people can
ask questions. So it is working like that. It's a
bit of a dance that we're learning about how to
make both places work together. But the Shoeshoe team are
(16:30):
phenomenal and they're really invested in Circa as a living,
living theater.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Okay, business panel on a Monday, Carolin Armstrong and murray Edwitch. Carol,
I'm going to start with you on this how working
with the City Council you must have to do it,
you know, with all their different arms and different organized
parts of their organization to bring people to Wellington for theater,
for arts all that stuff. How how is it working
with them and are things going to change being election year?
Speaker 5 (17:01):
Well, we work very closely with City Council. They're a
major funder. We are are on a multi funding system
with them, so they're a big supporter of Psyco Theater
and we have a lot of City councilors who attend
shows regularly and are on site and in the building
and talking with us a lot. I'd like to see more,
but you know, and so we have a really strong
(17:22):
relationship with counsel.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
They do they believe in the arts. Are they part
of the aid?
Speaker 4 (17:26):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Do they want it to be better.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
They've got a really.
Speaker 5 (17:29):
Strong arts team and the and events team that are
building you know, all the events like the Mataiki events
that are coming up, and so they have a really
strong arts team and that and value what artists and
creativity brings to the city. So yeah, do they do enough? Well,
we always want them to do more. We'd like more cash,
(17:53):
We'd like more cash. But we as I say, they
are supportive and they have been, and the fact that
they multi year fund us is gives us as an
organization stability.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Maririg, you're nod in your head there are you getting
support from Wellington City Council? Are you working with Wellington
City Council well enough? Do they understand the issues that
you're looking at and facing and help.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Look, I'm not sure they fully understand the issues, but
I mean, councils are strange beasts because you have elected
members and you have officers or employees of the employees
ease of the council. The council has some amazing people
in it and they're doing some really cool work. They're
doing amazing work at the moment on city safety and
well being, which is awesome. Sometimes it's quite hard to
(18:36):
convince council itself about funding priorities and we have that conversation.
Hopefully we have it on a free and frank basis
and often, you know, I'll go to council and talk
about what we're trying to achieve in the city and
the response I need them to be thinking about So
could it be better? Yes, it can always be better.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
But do they work with you? Do they say, look,
we have this issue in our community. Can you help bear?
And do you go to them and say, look, if
you give me this money, I can help the section
of the community.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
At a certain level. In Absolutely, we work together. We
have some very close relationships. I'm working with them at
the moment on an issue around parking at Fokamatu. Parking
is a contentious issue in the city as we know,
and yeah, there's some frustrations in that process, but actually
they are paying attention, hopefully to what we're saying and therefore,
hopefully we'll get a result that makes some sense.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Do you think that anything will change with a new council?
Could it change with a new council? Are you nervous
about a new council.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
I'm pretty excited about a new council actually, because i
think the current council has struggled and I'm looking forward
to some new blood and some new conversations and a
council that's more united than it's been over the last trainium.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Can I ask you that same question, Carolyn, are.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
You I think change is good and I think that
shaking things up a little bit, it's about time.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Yeah, and I mean it's I know it's a very
difficult thing to ask politically when you're actually knocking on
the doors trying to get get money from them. So
don't ask Nate Noll. I've got it. I've got it,
I've got I've got to work out whether you guys
got good relationship with the council or you think it's
time for change. And I've clearly worked out you think
that it might be time for some new blood.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Yes, I think it's just helpful because our relationship evolves,
and you know, it's a two way process. We've got
to do our bit, but there's an expected expectation that
council does their bit and sometimes that works and sometimes
that's frustrating.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Do and I'll come to you, Carols. Do they actually
ask you to produce how many people are coming to
the theater and we have to numbers and whether it's
working or not.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Absolutely so we have to report every three.
Speaker 5 (20:39):
Months on how our work is going and what numbers
are coming through the building, the number of artists we're supporting,
the number of creatives that are that are coming through
and provide audience feedback as well, so it's not just
here's some cash, go away and do what you do.
And then of course when we have special projects like
(21:00):
the rebuild, then we're working with them in a whole
different way as well. So there's the Arts Fund and
then there's the anything else that we do.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Do you think as a city, and I'll come to
you murray on the same question, do you think as
a city that we care as much as we used
to do? I mean, once again, I don't want to
keep talking about the past, but we used to have
this great underbelly of theater, which I don't believe is
quite like it used to be.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
It's still definitely out there.
Speaker 5 (21:28):
There are still young people creating amazing new work, and
a lot of artists that have made Wellington their home
purely because that this is where they can make and
present art. I do think that we have, you know,
in terms of there was a lot more work. I
seem to remember when I was younger, and I'm not
(21:49):
you know, I'm not parking back, but rents were cheaper,
there was a lot more rehearsal space available at very
low cost in the city that where people could be
central and working together and creating crazy unusual works and
then presenting them. Rents are high. I mean I did
(22:11):
read in the weekend that rents are supposedly dropping in Wellington,
but we've lost a lot of those young creative people
because of basic things like rent.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Right Murray rents. Is that really hurting your people? I mean,
I don't want to make that sound condescending the people
that you're there to look after rather than the.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Cost of housing is the biggest single issue we face
as a city. I think, you know, we've got people
that are paying huge proportions of their income on housing.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
But you've got Wellington City Council with all their housing,
You've got kind or Or with all their housing. Surely
housing it's not the issue it was.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Well, yes it is because it isn't enough housing. And
let me tell you the housing that people are paying
extraordinary amounts of money for properties that you and I
probably wouldn't live in. So the quality of the housing,
the accessibility and availability of it, and the sheer cost
are just major issues for our community. Because people can't
afford housing, the alternative is not that pleasant as you know,
(23:10):
can I just because you.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Are an experent, I just got to quickly ask you this.
The people that are sleeping on the streets and doing
it tough on the streets, have they got an opportunity
to live somewhere but want to live on the streets,
or they that's their last resort.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Look, I hear this as a comment often that people
choose to live rough. Nobody, in my experience, chooses to
live rough. They choose between a series of unpalatable options.
Often so they're safer on the street than they might
be in some accommodation, which might sound you know, ironical
or unusual, but actually, some of the circumstances people are
(23:47):
living in, they're better on the streets, so it's not
a choice. And yeah, you know, for there's a vulnerability
which is in that which is extraordinary, but that's the
reality of their circumstances.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
What do you say to those people that call the
show all the time and say they've got the opportunity
to live somewhere else, Get them off the streets?
Speaker 3 (24:04):
I would say, just reflect on people's context and background,
because if you and I had to cope with what
some of these people have had to cope with. We
might be in similar circumstances.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah, well we probably are. No one knows what's behind
the closed door, did it?
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Absolutely, It's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
You're listening to the business panel. You're actually you're listening
to nothing there with the dead air we were talking
off here. I was getting told what to do, Carolyn. Carolyn,
i'mstrong and murray edwits are joining us for the business panel, Murray,
I cut you off, But you wanted to make a
statement when I asked you, when I put it to
you that people will call the show once a week
(24:40):
or every or as often as hell and say, get
those people off the streets. They can go and live somewhere.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Nick, we have a philosophy as an organization that every
single person, with no exceptions, is unshakably good. Now, that's
a big statement to make. When people behave badly, and
they sometimes do, it's not a matter of their goodness
or otherwise. It's a matter of the challenges they're facing,
their unwell, the trauma, and for most of us, if
(25:10):
we had to face that level of difficulty and challenging
our lives, then we might we might behave similarly. So
what I'm saying is give people space, give them the
opportunity to come up, and let's put whatever support we
can around people, because actually just moving them along or
changing some of the rules doesn't fix it.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Okay, I want to quickly ask you a couple of
questions because we're running out of time about Wellington. You know,
it's been a tough few years in Wellington, you know,
both for everyone for us as a city. We've got
an election coming up, and I want to ask you
guys what you're thinking of Wellington. What are your hopes
are for Wellington's future? Caroen, what are your what are
(25:49):
your hopes that this election could change or a little
bit of time could change to get us back on track.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
Well I think we definitely have to do something about housing.
That's that's top of my chart. I work with a
lot of young people and I hear stories about their flats,
and I see their flats and the places that they're renting.
So we across the board we have to do something
about where people live in Wellington getting around the city.
(26:16):
I'm going to own up here. I have never driven
in my entire life, so I'm a public trainsport or
Uber user too.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Like to start, you know, never too late to start.
Speaker 5 (26:27):
I think I might be you know, you know, okay,
thanks Nick, I'll think on that.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (26:32):
But so I think getting around the city is really
problematic and you can't ever predict how long it's going
to take you to get from A to B because
suddenly there's something new being fixed or whatever. And definitely
our water issues and our infrastructure I think is certainly
need some loving care.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Murray, what do we need to do as a society
there as a city to get us back going and
get us I don't know the Wellington the way it
used to be the coolest little capital in the world.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
So I agree with Caroline priorities, housing and infrastructure really important.
I'm talking later this week about Willington being a compassionate capital.
I think we can be known as a place that cares.
And you know that's not some warm, wooly feeling. That's
about being a responsive to the needs we're seen in
our community, supporting the initiatives that are happening in and
(27:26):
around the city, Supporting the police who do an amazing
job because we have the coolest little capital in the world.
At one point during COVID lockdown, we had nobody sleeping
rough on the streets because people were prepared to do
things a bit differently. So I guess that's my ambition.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Should we go back to that?
Speaker 3 (27:42):
I reckon we could, because I said to the Finance
Minister and the mayor at the time, this is probably
like nowhere else on the planet where we have a
capital city with no street living community because people were
prepared to be bold, creative, invest in the things that
made a difference.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
You know, I've got to go to an ad break
before we come back, and you know, you give us
where you're going to take this very special person in Wellington,
I was walking down Courtney Place on Friday night with
a couple that I know in their fifties, and a drunken,
you know, out of it street sort of person walked
past and was going making all sorts of strange noises
(28:19):
and they were a little bit freaked out about it.
No very well traveled people. And I said, if you
were walking down you know Soho in London or Paris
or New York, you'd see that and you wouldn't even
think anything of it. But why do we make such
a big thing of it in New Zealand? And they
both looked at me and said, you'd see twenty times
more people like that. But we seem to we seem
(28:41):
to make a big thing about it in Warrington, don't we.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Well, I think I think we haven't had it in
the past, and we're seeing the manifestation of really difficult
mental health issues, addiction issues, and that means people behave
differently than we've seen before. But we should maintain our standards.
We should be saying we don't want to see that,
we want that person to be helped and therefore we
want all of our lives to be better.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Caroline Armstrong and Murray Litter. It's joining us for the
business panel. Murray, quickly this idea of Fokkomaru Catering that
you've bought some beautiful looking food here to come in
quickly give us that pitch and then tell us where
you're going to take someone really special in Wellington when
they pick them up at the airport.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Thanks Nick. As of today, we've launched Kragan Gail's Community
conscious catering run from the wonderful team at Yellow Sea
two run our cafe at Craig and Gals. We're doing
out catering so commercial catering for businesses, for individuals, for families.
Go to the website have a look. It's amazing catering
being delivered by City Mission volunteers. And if you have
(29:42):
any surplus food, which often happens when I go to events,
we'll come and pick it up for you and redistribute it.
It's amazing food and all of the proceeds go back
to the Worlington City Mass.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
And it does look incredible.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
The food, that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
What where are you going to take that special person
that you pick up at Wellington Airport eleven o'clock tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
I'm going to whip them up to the top of
Mount Victorian. Gives this amazing view of the harbor and
the city. We'll go down and have lunch of focomato
because and also experience, and we'll probably do something along
the waterfront.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
There you go, right, o' Carolyn, you're picking up somebody
that you know that you really want to impress. You've
gone out and you to You're going to have to
You're going to have to get Dave to pick you up.
Does he drive?
Speaker 4 (30:22):
He drives?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Okay, well he'll pick you up and you'll go somewhere
where are you going to take that.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
We're going to go.
Speaker 5 (30:26):
We're going to go to Zelandia for the day, beautiful
place and just the bird life and and and everything.
Go there and then Wellington home of the Symphony Orchestra,
Home of the Royal New Zealand Ballet, go to a
show in the evening. And if they're both out of town,
then well come to Circa Theater and have dinner at sushi.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Right.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
I knew you have to put that plug in there somewhere.
Good on you, Good on you, and everyone that we
ask they always want to go to Zulandia. That's kind
of like everyone wants to do it. It must be
a great part of what I've been there a few times.
But yeah, I want to have more fun than go
to Zulandier. If I pick it up someone, I'm heading
for fun. Sorry, I'm hitting for you know, you know
some with oysters and champade. Yeah fun, Murray Terans, Yeah,
(31:11):
come to fucking money, yeah, fucking money yeah, or everyone eats.
I would take someone special to Everyone Eats as well.
Another charity that does a great job. Murray Edwich and
Carolyn Armstrong, thank you both very much more. The very
best for what you're doing. It's fantastic to have you
people like you in our community working for those you know,
the show burs people and the people that need help.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
Thank you, Thanks Zach.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk sed B. Yes, Mondays meaning business. It's
the business panel on Wellington Mornings with Quinovic Property Management,
a better rental experience for all. Visit Quinovic dot co
dot inshead.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Joining us for our business panel this week is I'm
pretty excited by it too, Wellington City Missioner Murray.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Edwards Marty Murray, good morning, Nick.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
How are you?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I'm well, indeed you're looking well, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
And Circa Theater General Manager Caroline Armstrong Morning, Caroline morning,
how you doing?
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Great? Beautiful day out there in Wellington.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Love it and Circa is looking amazing.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
It looks beautiful.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Were you part of the whole part of the whole
build and the whole revamp and everything.
Speaker 5 (00:54):
I've lived through the entire construction. Yes, so yeah, it's
been interesting times, but we're really glad it's finished.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It looks magnificent. Driving past, it looks magnificent. I've always
loved It's a great spot and I've always loved it,
so it's magnificent. Murray, I'm going to start with you.
It's been a couple of years for the mission. It's
been a tough couple of years for us, all people
doing it tough, rising unemployment, in the opening of Fakamadu,
(01:21):
how's it all going? Give us a little rundown of
the world of Murray Terage right now.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Right, well, let me give you a snapshot of how
I think the world is. So last year, of course,
big year for us. We celebrated one hundred and twenty
years of being the Worlington City Mission, so serving the
communities of Wellington and like. That is cause for celebration
because it's an acknowledgment of the work that people have done.
But it's also a cause for I don't know, anxiety, disappointment,
(01:49):
perhaps on two fronts. The first is, at one hundred
and twenty years after we started, we still need to
be here. And my aspiration, as it is for all
my predecessors, was to close the doors one day because
they no longer need us. Now that's no time soon.
The second disappointment is I think, and this not evidence
space this is my opinion. But when you look back
(02:10):
on those one hundred and twenty year history of the
City Mission, there are very few occasions, just a handful,
I think, where life has been tougher than it is
for people today, and I guess they're occasioned by world
wars and great depressions. It's that hard out there. So
people are doing life really, really tough, and our job
(02:30):
is to get alongside them and to make sure we
as a community respond in the appropriate way. So that's
what we do, and that's what Fokka Mudu is all about.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
And how's your work changed in the last few years? So,
I mean, you've got sort of for me from the
outside looking up and that I haven't been. I'm going
to come up and have a lot. It feels like
you're becoming more of a commer and there's a lot
of food in front of us, which we'll talk about shortly.
You're becoming more of a commercially minded charity. Would that
be a fair.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
No, wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
I wouldn't pitch it like that. We do have to
be commercially minded because we have to pay the bills
and the way we're choosing to do our business is
more expensive than it used to be. And can I
can talk about that because but we're seeing needs that
are greater than they've ever been. We're seeing more complexity
and more challenge for the people that are disadvantaged, and
(03:22):
that's primarily around mental health and addiction issues and we
see it. We see it every day in our streets.
So we've got more people, less support less hope, I
think two of those people because there's not enough response
to the needs that they're demonstrating. So we have a
community that is really struggling. Our response to that has
got to be better and has got to be bigger.
(03:42):
And that's what Fokkomoto is supposed to do.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
We'll come back to that and we'll discuss it more
during the hour. Carolyn Armstrong is the GM of Circu
Theater and Carolyn, I want to I want to know
exactly what the situation is now. You've don't spend all
this money, you've revamped completely Circle Theater. Why how?
Speaker 5 (04:04):
Because well it begins because we had a leaky conservatory
and this was many This was years ago before I
became a came owners general manager. But so there was
part of the building was leaking and it was decided
to repair it. But of course, when you've got Dame
Carolyn henwood On as a founding member of your organization,
(04:26):
she thought bigger and better and if we're going to
do this. We're going to do it properly. So we
had an amazing fundraiser at the theater, Chrissy Bolton, who
worked really hard with Dame Carolyn raising the fund's support
from lottery support from Wellington City Council. And now we
have this amazing new space opening up to the waterfront,
(04:47):
which was our whole intention. We're in that great spot
and we were kind of closed off.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Who owned it.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
The circu Council owned the building. Okay, so that's the
governance of the of Circa Theater, So they owned the
building and so then it was the historic facade, the
leaky roof, the leaky conservatory, everything fixed, but in a
really beautiful way of opening up not just the building
to the harbor, but the theater to the harbit. Because
(05:13):
the theater is working forty eight weeks a year, is
a busy, busy place, and so that was the thinking
behind it.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
How many people can you fit into the theater for
an event? I mean obviously it would change on the
size of the production that you're doing.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
Yeah, well we have two venues, so Circa one is
a two hundred and twenty seater. That's our big venue.
And then we have Circa two, which seats one hundred,
so on a night we can have three hundred and
twenty people going through the building. So last year our
numbers were around fifty thousand, and we support local and
national artists. So that's the big thing behind Circa is
(05:49):
that we program over a twelve month period and we
have between two hundred and three hundred creatives coming into
the building. So that's not just actors, that's lighting designers,
costume designers, set designers, publicist producers. So it's a busy
building with usually two shows on and then during the
day two shows. The next two shows also rehearsing in
(06:11):
the building.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
When I was teasing the fact that you were coming
on the show, I said that when I was growing up,
I felt Wellington was the theater capital of New Zealand.
I mean, Hannah Playhouse was all over New Zealand. People
talked about it, movie stars and stars became stars out
of working out a theater in Wellington. Would that be
(06:34):
over exaggerating.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
I don't think it's over exaggerating. I mean Bats Theater
is where a lot of young young work develops from
and I worked there in my youth. My husband Dave
wrote and worked there in his youth. Tiger and Jermaine
who came out of that, and Britt McKenzie all came
out of the Bats theater world and then the Hannah Playhouse.
I used to work downstage many years ago, and so
(07:00):
cultural we call ourselves the cultural capital. I think we
have to be a little careful about that, but certainly
theatre is busy and alive in this.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Can I ask you how all three of a Canna playhouse.
I've got what is it called? What do you call
down stage? What's it called now? Downstage?
Speaker 4 (07:14):
It's called Hannah Playhouse now, yeah, but it.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Used to be downstage of course, how do all three
of you work together?
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Well, we do.
Speaker 5 (07:23):
We don't actually sit down and say this is what
we're doing, what are you doing?
Speaker 4 (07:27):
What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
So there's no coordination of like so they could run
a big event, a big show one day and you
could run another showltly.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
But if we are going to do something really major
like Circle, our spaces usually has shows that around eight
or you know, eight is a big cast for our building.
So we don't do huge works. We do a lot
of medium sized works. But we also if there was
something that we were going to do that was massive.
(07:54):
Of course, we would have to engage with other venues
around the town.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
So how who decides what shows go on?
Speaker 5 (08:03):
We have quite a unique process at CIRCA, So we
have the Circuit Council we call we just put out
nationwide call for pictures, so people pitch their idea, pitch
there what they are thinking they would like to do.
Then we have a panel of readers who read all
of those and they're external, they're outside of the building,
(08:24):
so they read everything and then they make a short
short list which then goes to Circuit Council, and then
people pitch in person with their ideas and from that,
Circuit Council programs the two venues.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
It's okay, right now we know what everyone does and
how they do it. Let's talk about general stuff for
both of you. What is the biggest challenges Murray in
your work? Both? You know you're in the business world.
You've got to bring money in. You know, you've got
to make it work. You've got to help the people
that you both help. How do you do how? What
is it? What's the biggest task?
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Look, I think the biggest task is ensuring that we
respond appropriately to the need we're seeing in our community now, well,
that requires a whole lot of things, including raising a
whole lot of money. As I said before, we haven't
chosen to do it a cheap way. We've chosen to
do it in a way that is most beneficial to
people's outcomes, that preserves people's dignity in a whole lot
(09:21):
of ways. Now that doesn't come cheap. So a big
part of my job is ensuring that we get the
appropriate support, whether that's government, local government, or whether that's
the community. Because we have an incredibly generous community in
Wellington and we see that generosity comes from on so
many occasions. So we built Facomoto. It was like Caroline,
you know, major building project has taken us six years.
(09:44):
We originally bought a building we were going to it
was an old building, we were going to do it up.
There was a five million dollar budget. Six years later
we opened Fokomot who fifty million dollars debt free as
of the month or the month after we opened, and
largely because of the generosity of the public. Now, the
reason that's important is that all money that comes into
(10:04):
the building then goes directly back to the community. But
the purpose of fokomart who is to support the community
to learn how to care for itself. So it's really
us just holding the space and allowing the community to
community to understand how they respond to needs in the community.
So it's cool.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
You know, you're listening to the Business Panel, which we
do every couple of weeks on a Monday. Today we
have Caroline Armstrong and Murray iteris Caroline, I wanted to
come to you before the break. We're talking about operational
challenges of running a business because it is a business.
Even though it's a charity organization that it is, it's
a business. It's got to run like a business. How
(10:43):
is the economy impacted on theater? I mean sometimes we're
hearing shows are doing amazing and some are doing, you know,
not so amazing, and it feels like a bit up
and down.
Speaker 5 (10:54):
Tell us your experience it is, Well, it's always up
and down. That's just the nature of what we do.
So you can put on a comedy and people are
looking for a laugh, so they book for a comedy.
You put on something serious that addresses in a shoe
that people are motivated by or interested in. A serious
quite heavy work can do really good box office business.
(11:15):
The problem is we can never predict. We don't have
a crystal ball, and we program twelve months out, so
if something happens in the community, like a lot of
public servants lose their jobs. And our core audience is
an older audience, which we are trying to change.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
We're trying to.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
You know, trying to make the young theatery thing.
Speaker 5 (11:32):
Yeah, we're trying to bring in a new, younger audience
because that's the only way that we can survive. But
we've been you know, next year as Circus fiftieth birthday,
So we've been around a while and we've negotiated the
apps and downs for many many years. But we have
to work really proactively. So every show we do, we
(11:53):
put on you know, if you book early, we have
early bird ticket prices, we have to pay what you
choose nights which you can get a ticket for fifteen
dollars that might normally cost you sixty, and we have
preview specials and some special so we have to constantly
look at how we can increase our people coming through
the door.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
How do you actually work if the numbers aren't there,
I mean it does a charity have to pay or
does it if it goes through some hard times you
just have to knock a couple of staff of from
keep going.
Speaker 5 (12:23):
No, we just keep going. And the way that it
works for the artists who are working in our building,
they are supported by the Theater Artist's Charitable Trust, which
is it that money goes directly to them, and then
CIRCA works with every production on a profit share. So
if the show does really well, both team, both sides
of that agreement do really well. If a show isn't
(12:45):
doing well, the biggest part of my job is keeping
morale up because you can't make people come to something
that they just doesn't appeal.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
How does it? And this is the question of you,
both of you, and I ask you Murray first, how
does it change things? And you've both been through exactly
the same thing where you've just spent millions and millions
of dollars? How does it change the financial model of
the city mission? Now that you've got all these assets
that need you know, I know you say your freehold,
but you obviously still have to pay insurance and you
(13:18):
still have to pay cost and maintenance and all the
things like that. How do you how does it work?
Speaker 5 (13:23):
Well? There?
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Are things we're grappling with it because you know, we're
new in the building. We knew some of those costs
and some of them are still still being discovered. But
the costs of our services are going up as well.
You know, we pay in excess of the living wage
to all of our staff, and we choose to do that,
but then the living wage goes up, and of course
the costs go up. So you know, it is about
(13:44):
ensuring that we continue to provide the level of service
that the community most needs from us. And that means
sometimes I've just got to work a bit harder to
go out there and convince people that actually supporting us
means we can continue to do what we do and
do it well. I mean, you know, government, we get
good support from government, We get some support from council,
(14:05):
but the general public are amazing and the ability to
go to the general public, and i mean our client
argibe much like Caroline's. The older population are incredibly generous
and what they what they see a need in the
community and their response to that. But everybody's under pressure
at the moment. Everybody's facing some limitations and that tightens
(14:28):
it down for every single household.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
And the same circuit. I mean, someone spent a lot
of money there. You need to show some sort of return.
How do you do it?
Speaker 5 (14:37):
Well that the new Barren Cafe, of course, is paying
a rental to us, so that support helps to support
the operations of the building and the people who work
in it.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, is that working for it?
Speaker 5 (14:52):
Yes, definitely, definitely. It's a busy place from seven in
the morning till late at night.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Oh really, because I've been there a couple of times
and I've been the only person in there.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
Oh, You've come at the wrong time.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
I must have come at the wrong time.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, I thought I thought that was a little bit
of a letdown of the Circus theater. I thought that
it would have been a more creative type cafe or restaurant,
you know, like because it's such a great iconic artist
place in it. I mean, it's a beautiful place. I'm
not don't get me wrong, but it was kind of
like I thought that it would be a theater the
theater based cafe. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
They we didn't want to go down that track. So
it's a bar and a restaurant in its own right.
But if you're there on occasions you're going to see
crazy stuff happen, like actors running through making entrances during shows.
And we've got an upcoming show that tis Maturiki Spectacular.
They're going to have to rehearse in there because that's
where the show is. So if you're having dinner, you're
(15:46):
most likely going to see some rehearsal going on and
some weird theater stuff. But yeah, it's it's absolutely it
is what it is, and it is.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
Working really well. That's great the people on the waterfront.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
That's very good news because there's a lot of you know,
competition on that order for sure is yeah. So so
how does that, I mean, how does that help you?
Does that actually help you get people in?
Speaker 5 (16:09):
Well, when the waterfront's busy and then people come in
to have a drink or to get something to eat,
then they're confronted in our space by what's coming up,
what's on now? The box offices right there, people can
ask questions. So it is working like that. It's a
bit of a dance that we're learning about how to
make both places work together. But the Shoeshoe team are
(16:30):
phenomenal and they're really invested in Circa as a living,
living theater.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Okay, business panel on a Monday, Carolin Armstrong and murray Edwitch. Carol,
I'm going to start with you on this how working
with the City Council you must have to do it,
you know, with all their different arms and different organized
parts of their organization to bring people to Wellington for theater,
for arts all that stuff. How how is it working
with them and are things going to change being election year?
Speaker 5 (17:01):
Well, we work very closely with City Council. They're a
major funder. We are are on a multi funding system
with them, so they're a big supporter of Psyco Theater
and we have a lot of City councilors who attend
shows regularly and are on site and in the building
and talking with us a lot. I'd like to see more,
but you know, and so we have a really strong
(17:22):
relationship with counsel.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
They do they believe in the arts. Are they part
of the aid?
Speaker 4 (17:26):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Do they want it to be better.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
They've got a really.
Speaker 5 (17:29):
Strong arts team and the and events team that are
building you know, all the events like the Mataiki events
that are coming up, and so they have a really
strong arts team and that and value what artists and
creativity brings to the city. So yeah, do they do enough? Well,
we always want them to do more. We'd like more cash,
(17:53):
We'd like more cash. But we as I say, they
are supportive and they have been, and the fact that
they multi year fund us is gives us as an
organization stability.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Maririg, you're nod in your head there are you getting
support from Wellington City Council? Are you working with Wellington
City Council well enough? Do they understand the issues that
you're looking at and facing and help.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Look, I'm not sure they fully understand the issues, but
I mean, councils are strange beasts because you have elected
members and you have officers or employees of the employees
ease of the council. The council has some amazing people
in it and they're doing some really cool work. They're
doing amazing work at the moment on city safety and
well being, which is awesome. Sometimes it's quite hard to
(18:36):
convince council itself about funding priorities and we have that conversation.
Hopefully we have it on a free and frank basis
and often, you know, I'll go to council and talk
about what we're trying to achieve in the city and
the response I need them to be thinking about So
could it be better? Yes, it can always be better.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
But do they work with you? Do they say, look,
we have this issue in our community. Can you help bear?
And do you go to them and say, look, if
you give me this money, I can help the section
of the community.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
At a certain level. In Absolutely, we work together. We
have some very close relationships. I'm working with them at
the moment on an issue around parking at Fokamatu. Parking
is a contentious issue in the city as we know,
and yeah, there's some frustrations in that process, but actually
they are paying attention, hopefully to what we're saying and therefore,
hopefully we'll get a result that makes some sense.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Do you think that anything will change with a new council?
Could it change with a new council? Are you nervous
about a new council.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
I'm pretty excited about a new council actually, because i
think the current council has struggled and I'm looking forward
to some new blood and some new conversations and a
council that's more united than it's been over the last trainium.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Can I ask you that same question, Carolyn, are.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
You I think change is good and I think that
shaking things up a little bit, it's about time.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Yeah, and I mean it's I know it's a very
difficult thing to ask politically when you're actually knocking on
the doors trying to get get money from them. So
don't ask Nate Noll. I've got it. I've got it,
I've got I've got to work out whether you guys
got good relationship with the council or you think it's
time for change. And I've clearly worked out you think
that it might be time for some new blood.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Yes, I think it's just helpful because our relationship evolves,
and you know, it's a two way process. We've got
to do our bit, but there's an expected expectation that
council does their bit and sometimes that works and sometimes
that's frustrating.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Do and I'll come to you, Carols. Do they actually
ask you to produce how many people are coming to
the theater and we have to numbers and whether it's
working or not.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Absolutely so we have to report every three.
Speaker 5 (20:39):
Months on how our work is going and what numbers
are coming through the building, the number of artists we're supporting,
the number of creatives that are that are coming through
and provide audience feedback as well, so it's not just
here's some cash, go away and do what you do.
And then of course when we have special projects like
(21:00):
the rebuild, then we're working with them in a whole
different way as well. So there's the Arts Fund and
then there's the anything else that we do.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Do you think as a city, and I'll come to
you murray on the same question, do you think as
a city that we care as much as we used
to do? I mean, once again, I don't want to
keep talking about the past, but we used to have
this great underbelly of theater, which I don't believe is
quite like it used to be.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
It's still definitely out there.
Speaker 5 (21:28):
There are still young people creating amazing new work, and
a lot of artists that have made Wellington their home
purely because that this is where they can make and
present art. I do think that we have, you know,
in terms of there was a lot more work. I
seem to remember when I was younger, and I'm not
(21:49):
you know, I'm not parking back, but rents were cheaper,
there was a lot more rehearsal space available at very
low cost in the city that where people could be
central and working together and creating crazy unusual works and
then presenting them. Rents are high. I mean I did
(22:11):
read in the weekend that rents are supposedly dropping in Wellington,
but we've lost a lot of those young creative people
because of basic things like rent.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Right Murray rents. Is that really hurting your people? I mean,
I don't want to make that sound condescending the people
that you're there to look after rather than the.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Cost of housing is the biggest single issue we face
as a city. I think, you know, we've got people
that are paying huge proportions of their income on housing.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
But you've got Wellington City Council with all their housing,
You've got kind or Or with all their housing. Surely
housing it's not the issue it was.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Well, yes it is because it isn't enough housing. And
let me tell you the housing that people are paying
extraordinary amounts of money for properties that you and I
probably wouldn't live in. So the quality of the housing,
the accessibility and availability of it, and the sheer cost
are just major issues for our community. Because people can't
afford housing, the alternative is not that pleasant as you know,
(23:10):
can I just because you.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Are an experent, I just got to quickly ask you this.
The people that are sleeping on the streets and doing
it tough on the streets, have they got an opportunity
to live somewhere but want to live on the streets,
or they that's their last resort.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Look, I hear this as a comment often that people
choose to live rough. Nobody, in my experience, chooses to
live rough. They choose between a series of unpalatable options.
Often so they're safer on the street than they might
be in some accommodation, which might sound you know, ironical
or unusual, but actually, some of the circumstances people are
(23:47):
living in, they're better on the streets, so it's not
a choice. And yeah, you know, for there's a vulnerability
which is in that which is extraordinary, but that's the
reality of their circumstances.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
What do you say to those people that call the
show all the time and say they've got the opportunity
to live somewhere else, Get them off the streets?
Speaker 3 (24:04):
I would say, just reflect on people's context and background,
because if you and I had to cope with what
some of these people have had to cope with. We
might be in similar circumstances.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah, well we probably are. No one knows what's behind
the closed door, did it?
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Absolutely, It's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
You're listening to the business panel. You're actually you're listening
to nothing there with the dead air we were talking
off here. I was getting told what to do, Carolyn. Carolyn,
i'mstrong and murray edwits are joining us for the business panel, Murray,
I cut you off, But you wanted to make a
statement when I asked you, when I put it to
you that people will call the show once a week
(24:40):
or every or as often as hell and say, get
those people off the streets. They can go and live somewhere.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Nick, we have a philosophy as an organization that every
single person, with no exceptions, is unshakably good. Now, that's
a big statement to make. When people behave badly, and
they sometimes do, it's not a matter of their goodness
or otherwise. It's a matter of the challenges they're facing,
their unwell, the trauma, and for most of us, if
(25:10):
we had to face that level of difficulty and challenging
our lives, then we might we might behave similarly. So
what I'm saying is give people space, give them the
opportunity to come up, and let's put whatever support we
can around people, because actually just moving them along or
changing some of the rules doesn't fix it.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Okay, I want to quickly ask you a couple of
questions because we're running out of time about Wellington. You know,
it's been a tough few years in Wellington, you know,
both for everyone for us as a city. We've got
an election coming up, and I want to ask you
guys what you're thinking of Wellington. What are your hopes
are for Wellington's future? Caroen, what are your what are
(25:49):
your hopes that this election could change or a little
bit of time could change to get us back on track.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
Well I think we definitely have to do something about housing.
That's that's top of my chart. I work with a
lot of young people and I hear stories about their flats,
and I see their flats and the places that they're renting.
So we across the board we have to do something
about where people live in Wellington getting around the city.
(26:16):
I'm going to own up here. I have never driven
in my entire life, so I'm a public trainsport or
Uber user too.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Like to start, you know, never too late to start.
Speaker 5 (26:27):
I think I might be you know, you know, okay,
thanks Nick, I'll think on that.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (26:32):
But so I think getting around the city is really
problematic and you can't ever predict how long it's going
to take you to get from A to B because
suddenly there's something new being fixed or whatever. And definitely
our water issues and our infrastructure I think is certainly
need some loving care.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Murray, what do we need to do as a society
there as a city to get us back going and
get us I don't know the Wellington the way it
used to be the coolest little capital in the world.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
So I agree with Caroline priorities, housing and infrastructure really important.
I'm talking later this week about Willington being a compassionate capital.
I think we can be known as a place that cares.
And you know that's not some warm, wooly feeling. That's
about being a responsive to the needs we're seen in
our community, supporting the initiatives that are happening in and
(27:26):
around the city, Supporting the police who do an amazing
job because we have the coolest little capital in the world.
At one point during COVID lockdown, we had nobody sleeping
rough on the streets because people were prepared to do
things a bit differently. So I guess that's my ambition.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Should we go back to that?
Speaker 3 (27:42):
I reckon we could, because I said to the Finance
Minister and the mayor at the time, this is probably
like nowhere else on the planet where we have a
capital city with no street living community because people were
prepared to be bold, creative, invest in the things that
made a difference.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
You know, I've got to go to an ad break
before we come back, and you know, you give us
where you're going to take this very special person in Wellington,
I was walking down Courtney Place on Friday night with
a couple that I know in their fifties, and a drunken,
you know, out of it street sort of person walked
past and was going making all sorts of strange noises
(28:19):
and they were a little bit freaked out about it.
No very well traveled people. And I said, if you
were walking down you know Soho in London or Paris
or New York, you'd see that and you wouldn't even
think anything of it. But why do we make such
a big thing of it in New Zealand? And they
both looked at me and said, you'd see twenty times
more people like that. But we seem to we seem
(28:41):
to make a big thing about it in Warrington, don't we.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Well, I think I think we haven't had it in
the past, and we're seeing the manifestation of really difficult
mental health issues, addiction issues, and that means people behave
differently than we've seen before. But we should maintain our standards.
We should be saying we don't want to see that,
we want that person to be helped and therefore we
want all of our lives to be better.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Caroline Armstrong and Murray Litter. It's joining us for the
business panel. Murray, quickly this idea of Fokkomaru Catering that
you've bought some beautiful looking food here to come in
quickly give us that pitch and then tell us where
you're going to take someone really special in Wellington when
they pick them up at the airport.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Thanks Nick. As of today, we've launched Kragan Gail's Community
conscious catering run from the wonderful team at Yellow Sea
two run our cafe at Craig and Gals. We're doing
out catering so commercial catering for businesses, for individuals, for families.
Go to the website have a look. It's amazing catering
being delivered by City Mission volunteers. And if you have
(29:42):
any surplus food, which often happens when I go to events,
we'll come and pick it up for you and redistribute it.
It's amazing food and all of the proceeds go back
to the Worlington City Mass.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
And it does look incredible.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
The food, that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
What where are you going to take that special person
that you pick up at Wellington Airport eleven o'clock tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
I'm going to whip them up to the top of
Mount Victorian. Gives this amazing view of the harbor and
the city. We'll go down and have lunch of focomato
because and also experience, and we'll probably do something along
the waterfront.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
There you go, right, o' Carolyn, you're picking up somebody
that you know that you really want to impress. You've
gone out and you to You're going to have to
You're going to have to get Dave to pick you up.
Does he drive?
Speaker 4 (30:22):
He drives?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Okay, well he'll pick you up and you'll go somewhere
where are you going to take that.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
We're going to go.
Speaker 5 (30:26):
We're going to go to Zelandia for the day, beautiful
place and just the bird life and and and everything.
Go there and then Wellington home of the Symphony Orchestra,
Home of the Royal New Zealand Ballet, go to a
show in the evening. And if they're both out of town,
then well come to Circa Theater and have dinner at sushi.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Right.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
I knew you have to put that plug in there somewhere.
Good on you, Good on you, and everyone that we
ask they always want to go to Zulandia. That's kind
of like everyone wants to do it. It must be
a great part of what I've been there a few times.
But yeah, I want to have more fun than go
to Zulandier. If I pick it up someone, I'm heading
for fun. Sorry, I'm hitting for you know, you know
some with oysters and champade. Yeah fun, Murray Terans, Yeah,
(31:11):
come to fucking money, yeah, fucking money yeah, or everyone eats.
I would take someone special to Everyone Eats as well.
Another charity that does a great job. Murray Edwich and
Carolyn Armstrong, thank you both very much more. The very
best for what you're doing. It's fantastic to have you
people like you in our community working for those you know,
the show burs people and the people that need help.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
Thank you, Thanks Zach.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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