June 8, 2025 • 9 mins
Former All Blacks captain Stu Wilson has died, aged 70.
Wilson, who could play centre or wing, made 85 appearances for the All Blacks between 1976-83, including 34 tests, two of which he captained.
He made nine overseas tours, including that with the 1978 Grand Slam team which beat all four Home Unions. He was captain in all eight matches of the 1983 tour of England and Scotland.
.css-j9qmi7{display:-webkit-box;display:-webkit-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-webkit-flex-direction:row;-ms-flex-direction:row;flex-direction:row;font-weight:700;margin-bottom:1rem;margin-top:2.8rem;width:100%;-webkit-box-pack:start;-ms-flex-pack:start;-webkit-justify-content:start;justify-content:start;padding-left:5rem;}@media only screen and (max-width: 599px){.css-j9qmi7{padding-left:0;-webkit-box-pack:center;-ms-flex-pack:center;-webkit-justify-content:center;justify-content:center;}}.css-j9qmi7 svg{fill:#27292D;}.css-j9qmi7 .eagfbvw0{-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;color:#27292D;}
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks at b.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Eavy. We did you Gatherer in person palmy.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
By, But on my job I had to play this,
grant this but joins us this morning, mis bar. I
had to play a bit of that, didn't I?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
You did? Nick? Yeah? Good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Your thoughts when you heard that's Stu.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Wilson, very sad, real character of well Wellington Rugby, New
Zealand Rugby and an outstanding rugby player and gone too soon,
gone too soon?
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Did you know he was crooked?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
No? I didn't, No, I didn't. Last saw Stee about
three or four years ago. Actually I went to a
bowling tournament up and and the boys wanted to be
entertained one night with a guest speaker, and I thought,
I'll give old Steward ring, so I did, and he
came along and he was so engaging and he was
a brilliant rack on tour as we know, and he
(01:20):
entertained us for about half an hour. As recall of
games of the past et cetera, et cetera were second
to none, so it came as a real shock to me.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
He was ahead of his time. Wasn't he. I mean,
there was. He apparently retired because he wrote a book
and was going to take the money for us. Is
that I mean, if you heard that story.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
No, I hadn't heard that story, but I could believe it.
He did retire early. He you know, most people felt
that he probably had another couple of years in him,
that's for sure, and he was still playing really well.
He still had time to play eighty five games for
the All Blacks, which in the days of tours and things,
is a hell of a lot of games, and thirty
(02:02):
four Test matches in an era, of course, where we
didn't play fifth Test matches a year like we do today.
So it was over a reasonably long period of time.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
He was All Black captain. Now I remember, and my
memory might not be as good as what I think
it is, but I think I'm right. There was a
bit of controversy about him being captain of the All
Blacks only because of the position a winger. You can't
have a winger as a captain, Am I right?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Well, that was one of it. The other thing, too,
was he wasn't from my memory, he wasn't a regular
captain of any teams that he played for He played,
of course Club Rugby here and Wellington for Wellington Colored
Joel Boys played for Wellington, usually under the captaincy of
the likes of Paul Quinn, but then he became an
all back captain, probably because of his seniority. It's pretty
(02:52):
rare for a back let alone a winger to be
a captain at an international level. So at the time you're right,
there was a little bit of controversy.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
What will he best be remembered for.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
From just being a good blow first and foremost a
great rugby player. I mean I'd put him. I'd put
him in New Zealand rugby history, in the top six
all black wingers of all time, you know, up there
with the likes of Kerwin and Lomu and these sort
of fellas. I think Stewie was very much in that
category for sure. And then when he finished he did
I fair bit of broadcasting work, so he got to
(03:28):
know him pretty well through that. But his storytelling, it
was a great rack on tour, is very graphic, very animated,
sometimes prone to a little bit of exaggeration maybe, and
quite quirky too. I remember him telling me a story
once that he was playing at Athletic Park on a
pretty miserable old day against maybe it was Southland or somebody,
(03:50):
and he somehow found himself on the bottom of a
rack and he was sort of picking himself off off
the ground and he and a big Southland prop was
down there with him, and Stewie said to him, excuse me, mate,
you got the time? Which is typical Stewie. It was
just completely off the wall. You know, why would you
(04:12):
ask a Ford if he's got the time?
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Talk to me? Oh man? I mean I only met
him a couple of times, but I did see him
a few times in clubs and bars that I was running.
Obviously he was a bit of a party boy, you
know that. I know that. Talk to me about his
connection with Bernie Fraser. I put them down as brothers
in arms, Ebonie and Ivory. I mean they were kind
(04:35):
of like the likely lads, weren't they.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah, they were, they were. There was such a contrast
between the two. Bernie was probably faster than Stu and
Bernie was a great finisher. And remember the old athletic
part there was Bernie's corner where he scored down that
left wing side and on the other side we had
Stu Wilson with his not as fast I don't think,
probably not as fast as Bernie, but silty skills, brilliant
(05:02):
timing and the ability to finish. I mean, there was
such a on trust and obviously they'd say, you know,
the blokes inside them created at a lot of opportunities.
And we had the likes of Alan Howson and Jamie Salmon,
who of course played for the All Blacks and then
England as well, and these sort of guys. So Stu
(05:22):
and Bernie would probably say, look, we scored all the tries,
but you've got to remember that some of these other
guys probably created them.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Gee, when you're thinking of that team, that the hair
on the back of my neck when you started mentioning
names like Allen just because Murray mixed team would have
been number eight too. So how many All Blacks did
we have with that team?
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Oh, we had a lot. We had a lot. When
I think of the eighty one team that won the
Ranfilly Shield, you had Stun, Bernie and Alan Hwson, you
had Jamie Salmon. You also had Brian mcgratton who was
an All Black. I think Scotty Crichton was there.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
That's about seven await all Blacks.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah, that's right exactly, and Mex of course, as you mentioned, So, yeah,
we probably had half the team in those days.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
I don't know whether you know, but I've just got
into my ear that apparently Murray mixed Head had lunch
with him on the day that he died. That's a
nice thought. I read that.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah, I read that. I read that. So it would
obviously come to a huge a huge shock for Mets
as well.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Yeah, I mean my experience with Stu Wilson as a
player was he was a very high IQ. He wasn't
the greatest athlete in the world, he wasn't the strongest
man in the world, but his IQ was always something
that would put him ahead of anyone else.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yeah. Look, I think that came through and as broadcasting too, Nick.
He was a very good analyst. And you know a
lot of backs will say, well, don't talk to me
about what the Fords do. I've got no idea. But
Stuart always had an opinion on how the forwards were going,
and how the scrummaging was looking, and how the lineouts
were going and all the rest of it. But first
and foremost he was just a brilliant player, There's no
(06:59):
doubt about it. I think you said he was ahead
of his time, and I think going back forty years
he most likely won.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Well. He was the guy that sort of like one
of the few people that tried to bring professionalism in,
didn't He He knew that he was a star, he
knew he could make money, and he was going to
make money out of being an All Black with the
days where it was illegal. I mean it wasn't. You couldn't.
You couldn't make money out of big and all black,
could you? You were allowed to?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
No, that's right exactly. I mean there were a lot
of rumors about guys playing in Italy and this and
that sort of thing. But Stuart, as you say, wrote
a book Ebony and Ivory with Bernie and there was
quite obviously a bit of controversy around about the proceeds
from the book, and he probably just threw his hands
up and said, I can't be bothered with this nonsense anymore. Unfortunately,
from his point of view and a lot of All
(07:45):
Blacks at the time, it was ten years before professional rugby,
and so they were true blue amateurs. They'd played for
their club team, they played for the Rep team. They'd
played for the All Blacks probably on a Saturday, and
sometimes they'd come back and play club rugby on a Sunday.
Unbelievable when you think back to that.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Yeah, I don't know whether he was one of those
guys who had come back and play club club rugby. Guy.
I mean, I'm not putting him. I'm not saying I
don't want to disrespect them, but he was the smooth guy.
He was the David Beckham of the time. So you'd
always have to have a crowd there for stud to
come out and perform.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Well, look, I tell you what you know, and this
is an example of what happened back in those days.
In nineteen eighty one, the All Blacks played the Third
Test against the Spring Boks at Athletic Park, sorry at
Eden Park, and that was the flower Bomb Test. And
you remember all the ructions and all the rest of it,
and the plane flying overhead and all the rest of it. Well,
Sue and Bernie I'm pretty sure Bernie was there. Murray Mixtenner,
(08:40):
I think there was one other. They flew back to
Wellington to play a Rep game against Munawatu on the
Sunday and mantterwa two at the time are very strong.
They had all blacks like Mark Shaw and Gary Knight
the rest of it, and all of these all blacks
who had played in that momentous test match at Eden
Park the day before, all flew back and played in
that rep game at Athletic Park. And my memory of
(09:02):
it because I was there, that the park was just
about full, the guys playing two games in a row.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Wow, that's an amazing story. Let's leave it at that, Grandners,
But thank you very much. You were the commentator in
that game too. I believe you're in a false You're
in a false stand made up stand of scaffolding, and
you're up at the top of it watching all these
bombs come down. I remember that story too, Oh my gosh,
and they went down and played. I bet you didn't
go down and commentate in that game. You'd have been
still still of getting your heart rate down, Grandner's. But
(09:32):
always a pleasure. Respect you love, your love your calling,
and yeah, you're a good blike. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio,
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks at b.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Eavy. We did you Gatherer in person palmy.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
By, But on my job I had to play this,
grant this but joins us this morning, mis bar. I
had to play a bit of that, didn't I?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
You did? Nick? Yeah? Good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Your thoughts when you heard that's Stu.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Wilson, very sad, real character of well Wellington Rugby, New
Zealand Rugby and an outstanding rugby player and gone too soon,
gone too soon?
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Did you know he was crooked?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
No? I didn't, No, I didn't. Last saw Stee about
three or four years ago. Actually I went to a
bowling tournament up and and the boys wanted to be
entertained one night with a guest speaker, and I thought,
I'll give old Steward ring, so I did, and he
came along and he was so engaging and he was
a brilliant rack on tour as we know, and he
(01:20):
entertained us for about half an hour. As recall of
games of the past et cetera, et cetera were second
to none, so it came as a real shock to me.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
He was ahead of his time. Wasn't he. I mean,
there was. He apparently retired because he wrote a book
and was going to take the money for us. Is
that I mean, if you heard that story.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
No, I hadn't heard that story, but I could believe it.
He did retire early. He you know, most people felt
that he probably had another couple of years in him,
that's for sure, and he was still playing really well.
He still had time to play eighty five games for
the All Blacks, which in the days of tours and things,
is a hell of a lot of games, and thirty
(02:02):
four Test matches in an era, of course, where we
didn't play fifth Test matches a year like we do today.
So it was over a reasonably long period of time.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
He was All Black captain. Now I remember, and my
memory might not be as good as what I think
it is, but I think I'm right. There was a
bit of controversy about him being captain of the All
Blacks only because of the position a winger. You can't
have a winger as a captain, Am I right?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Well, that was one of it. The other thing, too,
was he wasn't from my memory, he wasn't a regular
captain of any teams that he played for He played,
of course Club Rugby here and Wellington for Wellington Colored
Joel Boys played for Wellington, usually under the captaincy of
the likes of Paul Quinn, but then he became an
all back captain, probably because of his seniority. It's pretty
(02:52):
rare for a back let alone a winger to be
a captain at an international level. So at the time you're right,
there was a little bit of controversy.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
What will he best be remembered for.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
From just being a good blow first and foremost a
great rugby player. I mean I'd put him. I'd put
him in New Zealand rugby history, in the top six
all black wingers of all time, you know, up there
with the likes of Kerwin and Lomu and these sort
of fellas. I think Stewie was very much in that
category for sure. And then when he finished he did
I fair bit of broadcasting work, so he got to
(03:28):
know him pretty well through that. But his storytelling, it
was a great rack on tour, is very graphic, very animated,
sometimes prone to a little bit of exaggeration maybe, and
quite quirky too. I remember him telling me a story
once that he was playing at Athletic Park on a
pretty miserable old day against maybe it was Southland or somebody,
(03:50):
and he somehow found himself on the bottom of a
rack and he was sort of picking himself off off
the ground and he and a big Southland prop was
down there with him, and Stewie said to him, excuse me, mate,
you got the time? Which is typical Stewie. It was
just completely off the wall. You know, why would you
(04:12):
ask a Ford if he's got the time?
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Talk to me? Oh man? I mean I only met
him a couple of times, but I did see him
a few times in clubs and bars that I was running.
Obviously he was a bit of a party boy, you
know that. I know that. Talk to me about his
connection with Bernie Fraser. I put them down as brothers
in arms, Ebonie and Ivory. I mean they were kind
(04:35):
of like the likely lads, weren't they.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah, they were, they were. There was such a contrast
between the two. Bernie was probably faster than Stu and
Bernie was a great finisher. And remember the old athletic
part there was Bernie's corner where he scored down that
left wing side and on the other side we had
Stu Wilson with his not as fast I don't think,
probably not as fast as Bernie, but silty skills, brilliant
(05:02):
timing and the ability to finish. I mean, there was
such a on trust and obviously they'd say, you know,
the blokes inside them created at a lot of opportunities.
And we had the likes of Alan Howson and Jamie Salmon,
who of course played for the All Blacks and then
England as well, and these sort of guys. So Stu
(05:22):
and Bernie would probably say, look, we scored all the tries,
but you've got to remember that some of these other
guys probably created them.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Gee, when you're thinking of that team, that the hair
on the back of my neck when you started mentioning
names like Allen just because Murray mixed team would have
been number eight too. So how many All Blacks did
we have with that team?
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Oh, we had a lot. We had a lot. When
I think of the eighty one team that won the
Ranfilly Shield, you had Stun, Bernie and Alan Hwson, you
had Jamie Salmon. You also had Brian mcgratton who was
an All Black. I think Scotty Crichton was there.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
That's about seven await all Blacks.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah, that's right exactly, and Mex of course, as you mentioned, So, yeah,
we probably had half the team in those days.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
I don't know whether you know, but I've just got
into my ear that apparently Murray mixed Head had lunch
with him on the day that he died. That's a
nice thought. I read that.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah, I read that. I read that. So it would
obviously come to a huge a huge shock for Mets
as well.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Yeah, I mean my experience with Stu Wilson as a
player was he was a very high IQ. He wasn't
the greatest athlete in the world, he wasn't the strongest
man in the world, but his IQ was always something
that would put him ahead of anyone else.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yeah. Look, I think that came through and as broadcasting too, Nick.
He was a very good analyst. And you know a
lot of backs will say, well, don't talk to me
about what the Fords do. I've got no idea. But
Stuart always had an opinion on how the forwards were going,
and how the scrummaging was looking, and how the lineouts
were going and all the rest of it. But first
and foremost he was just a brilliant player, There's no
(06:59):
doubt about it. I think you said he was ahead
of his time, and I think going back forty years
he most likely won.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Well. He was the guy that sort of like one
of the few people that tried to bring professionalism in,
didn't He He knew that he was a star, he
knew he could make money, and he was going to
make money out of being an All Black with the
days where it was illegal. I mean it wasn't. You couldn't.
You couldn't make money out of big and all black,
could you? You were allowed to?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
No, that's right exactly. I mean there were a lot
of rumors about guys playing in Italy and this and
that sort of thing. But Stuart, as you say, wrote
a book Ebony and Ivory with Bernie and there was
quite obviously a bit of controversy around about the proceeds
from the book, and he probably just threw his hands
up and said, I can't be bothered with this nonsense anymore. Unfortunately,
from his point of view and a lot of All
(07:45):
Blacks at the time, it was ten years before professional rugby,
and so they were true blue amateurs. They'd played for
their club team, they played for the Rep team. They'd
played for the All Blacks probably on a Saturday, and
sometimes they'd come back and play club rugby on a Sunday.
Unbelievable when you think back to that.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Yeah, I don't know whether he was one of those
guys who had come back and play club club rugby. Guy.
I mean, I'm not putting him. I'm not saying I
don't want to disrespect them, but he was the smooth guy.
He was the David Beckham of the time. So you'd
always have to have a crowd there for stud to
come out and perform.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Well, look, I tell you what you know, and this
is an example of what happened back in those days.
In nineteen eighty one, the All Blacks played the Third
Test against the Spring Boks at Athletic Park, sorry at
Eden Park, and that was the flower Bomb Test. And
you remember all the ructions and all the rest of it,
and the plane flying overhead and all the rest of it. Well,
Sue and Bernie I'm pretty sure Bernie was there. Murray Mixtenner,
(08:40):
I think there was one other. They flew back to
Wellington to play a Rep game against Munawatu on the
Sunday and mantterwa two at the time are very strong.
They had all blacks like Mark Shaw and Gary Knight
the rest of it, and all of these all blacks
who had played in that momentous test match at Eden
Park the day before, all flew back and played in
that rep game at Athletic Park. And my memory of
(09:02):
it because I was there, that the park was just
about full, the guys playing two games in a row.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Wow, that's an amazing story. Let's leave it at that, Grandners,
But thank you very much. You were the commentator in
that game too. I believe you're in a false You're
in a false stand made up stand of scaffolding, and
you're up at the top of it watching all these
bombs come down. I remember that story too, Oh my gosh,
and they went down and played. I bet you didn't
go down and commentate in that game. You'd have been
still still of getting your heart rate down, Grandner's. But
(09:32):
always a pleasure. Respect you love, your love your calling,
and yeah, you're a good blike. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio,
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.