June 12, 2025 • 31 mins
A new Curia poll has seen Labour overtake National, albeit by a very slim margin. Is it realistic to think Labour could form a government after next year's election?
Also, despite soon having a new water entity, Wellington's water bills from the second half of this year will be the equivalent of $50 a week - and by 2033 the bills will reach $20 a day. Can Wellingtonians afford this?
To answer those questions, former Porirua mayor and Infrastructure NZ CEO Nick Leggett and political commentator Ben Thomas joined Nick Mills for Friday Faceoff.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said B Wellington's official week interview. It's
Friday Fasar with Kudovic Property Management, a better rental experience
for all, visit dot Cot on its head Thursday.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Stars, I don't care.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Joining us for Friday face off.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
This week is Infrastructs, a New Zealand CEO and ex
potty to me and Nicholas Leggett.
Speaker 5 (00:53):
Good morning, Nicholas Mills.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
How are you?
Speaker 5 (00:55):
It's great to be here.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
You're always better when I when your Dorset tones and
personality arrive into the studio. And political commentator Ben Thomas,
who I haven't ever met before. I mean, that's pretty strange,
isn't it. Man, If you're your position in the city
I haven't met before.
Speaker 6 (01:14):
Especially in Wellington. You know you'd expect that you just
sort of end up at the same place, you know,
at some point in the notes sometimes.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Yeah, but your trouble as your bee hiveh end I've
already talked about that. I mean, you know, you guys
are all down the beehive en. I'm down the Courtney.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Place, and you're were the real people right of the
party part Yeah, yeah, completely different, different.
Speaker 6 (01:30):
That entire end of town has shut down at about
seven pm, apart from the beehive.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
That's good to meet you. It's good to meet you.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Thank you for coming along, and let's have a fun hour.
Just so you know, you're welcome to interrupt at any stage.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
You're welcome to say anything you want, right or wrong.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Disagree, agree, and if you want to have a crack
at mate, it's open slather. But everybody else he's been
a chairperson of wanted to water, so it's easy to
have a crackhead. So by all beans, clip them over
the air. He'll take it a good step. Right, Let's
start with the pole, a new carrier pole has been
has Labor overtaking National very very slightly slam Magic Labor
(02:09):
on thirty four point eight sent National on thirty three
point five percent.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Just start with you on this one. Ben. For me,
you know, I like.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
Cress Sipkins, but I kind of don't understand why he's
still in charge.
Speaker 6 (02:25):
Well, I mean he would probably say look at the results,
you know, don't mess with what's working.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
You know, I've got a fighting shot on these poles.
Speaker 6 (02:34):
Have Yeah, Look, I mean if you if you look
at the totality of polls that have come out or
disregard Roy Morgan. I think you can safely do it's tight,
it's you know, it is a toss up, and you
would probably come down to what's happening there, you know,
like anything can happen to media could strike New Zealand.
But you would be thinking if you're the current prime minister,
(02:56):
you know the economy is liable to be ticking upwards
by then.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
You would love to.
Speaker 6 (03:03):
Go into eight weeks of campaign. You know, sending out
priests really is encouraging people to ask Crusipkins what he
thinks of what have been Arbity Waity and Demonada Wopak
have said that day. So look, I think reasonably comfortable position.
You know, it's a good position for labor now, probably
better than they would have expected a year ago. But
(03:23):
you know, it suddenly doesn't offer them much solace. I
think in a tough election.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Can we just put this down to the budget. Is
it just a budget that's making them you know, I mean,
you know it was always going to be a nothing
budget and it was a nothing budget.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
So people are reacting to that. Do you think it
could be or not.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
I think it's I'm surprised at how much this is
actually held. You know, in terms of the election result,
things haven't moved much, and you've got Labor and National
both in the early thirties. I guess that concerns me
a little bit because I am I'm in the center
of the political spectrum and when you've got the larger
(04:01):
parties send to right and sener left squeezed the extremes
of ones that have grown and are growing, and that
bothers me. And I think, you know, we can feel
that out there that you know, we're not a particularly
happy place at the moment, and New Zealand is economically
in a bit of a funk. But I agree with
Ben the election and with Unich the election will come
(04:22):
down to how people feel about the economy in the
year's time. Do they feel that their livelihoods are you know,
on the up. And I think as well that extremity
on the political spectrum to Chris Hopkins Left will be
a problem for him unless he can or Labor can
(04:44):
make New Zealand First look like a realistic coalition partner.
And I wouldn't rule that out.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
I mean, the chances that are pretty slight.
Speaker 6 (04:51):
I disagree.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
I disagree. I think it's I wouldn't. I think all
bets are off. Now Winston's not Deputy PM, he's he
is still the smartest rooster in the hen House.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
But he could not possibly go back on his word.
He couldn't possibly turned around and join a COI lecton
could he with with with Chris Hopkins?
Speaker 3 (05:10):
He said no.
Speaker 6 (05:11):
Well, look, you know, look, I think that there is
a pretty established tradition now of noble self sacrifice from
Labor Party leaders. Andrew Little did it. His His his
reputation soared after that by you know, putting himself out
to pasture in favor of Justinda Ardern as the leader
close to the election. If Chris Hopkins were to lead
(05:34):
his part, you know, we're to lead his party onto
an ultimate victory next year, you know, with the help
of New Zealand first, one stop along the way, maybe
just having a bit of a lie down on a
sacrificial altar in front of New Zealand first at the
fun and and do you.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Reckon that's possible?
Speaker 5 (05:50):
Of course it is Ian look how tight it is.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
But I do do.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
You think he had stepped out? Have got if he
was in a position where he was a power broker.
We're talking about Chris Hopkins, and they went to New
Zealand first and said, okay, what's the deal, what do
you have to do. What happens if Winston says actually
I want to be primes, I.
Speaker 5 (06:07):
Mean that will all depend on vote. Look, I think
that's no way out into the Yeah, I.
Speaker 6 (06:12):
Don't think that would happen post election. I think what
you'd be talking about is if Labor was still, as
Nick says, you know, in the early thirties, so outperforming
the election, which was a disaster, but still not really
looking like they might be able to form a government
without party Mardi, without New Zealand first, then you might
see sentiment shift amongst the public, and you know, you
(06:34):
might see the party prevail upon Nipkins to do something selfless.
And a lot of that would depend on his own ratings,
So it wouldn't it wouldn't happen in a vacuum.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
But and I mean I also just to defend Chris
Hipkins here, I think he's doing a good job based
on what he's got. I mean, as being said, the
polls are you know, a releively healthy for him, he
has been Prime minister. He's been a very experienced minister.
He's got a lot to add and you know he's
only forty six. He's you know, he's a young man.
(07:04):
I say that, you know, and he also he's the
most experienced person that the Parliamentary Labor Party has. And
I just want to push back on this idea that
you know that the economy is suddenly going to improve.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
It has to well, I mean, if it doesn't improve
this time next year, I think I think that the
coalitions in real trub.
Speaker 5 (07:30):
What I'm saying is not because I don't want it to.
Quite clearly, there are people out there who are doing
it really really hard. You know, hundreds of jobs are
being lost a week. Of course, there's some meds in
the governments given that I hope will improve things, but
there has not been stimulus and you know, money pumped
into the economy to get things going. And I say
(07:52):
that because I work in the infrastructure area. You know,
this is an industry that's that's going without and we
just hope that the medicine will pay off. And it's
but if you talk, if it doesn't, If it doesn't,
then there are going to you know then then the
election is going on, right.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Well, Ben, they're already seeing the results of the government's plan,
aren't they. I mean, giving them the twenty percent tax
reduction on the asset stuff. I mean the field days
people are very excited.
Speaker 6 (08:20):
Oh look, I think if you're in the market for
a new tractor, that would be a fantastic you know,
there would be mana from heaven on budget Day. You know,
I think you know it it is, you know, the
investment booster is also essentially the ute boost, you know,
and I think even the government admitted that that you
probably would see a huge surgeon highlights sales along with
(08:42):
more productives.
Speaker 5 (08:43):
There's good political symbolism and that as well as.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
You're saying that they weren't. But they sort of were
with that a little bit, weren't they.
Speaker 6 (08:49):
Well, and what's that calculated about is zero points seven
zero point eight percent GDPs sort of you know, pumping
up to the.
Speaker 5 (08:56):
Next year because they're also really sensitive about inflation, as
they should be, and they've done I think a good
job and tightening the reins on spending. So the stimulus
they've given is there. I guess what I'm saying is
this was a government that was elected to deliver. Chris
Bishop's done a really good job and infrastructure and getting
all the systems and the settings right. But what we
(09:18):
do need to see is some work and market some
new projects so people feel as though, you know, the
world is that the New Zealand is progressing and that
we're building some stuff. And look, that's there's plenty of
time to run on that, and I think we will
see some new projects well before the election, but we
do need spades in the ground.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
What's been what's your gut telling you about, you know,
performance of the government looking forward? I mean, I'm convinced
of they don't show something pretty pretty big in the
next twelve months, you know, it could be a major shakeup.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Well.
Speaker 6 (09:48):
Look, ultimately, the economy, especially at the economy of somewhere
like New Zealand, is not dictated by the government. You know,
we're hostages to fortune, which is a nice way of
saying Donald Trump and his administration and the kind of
global resetting of the world order that's sort of in place,
you know, or that's happening right around us. So look,
(10:08):
you know what we've got is, you know, our government
are basically steering you know, Chris Likeson always says it
takes a long time to turn the ship around. They're
sort of steering a raft on the yeah, on the
high seat, on the high seat, right exactly. And look,
I think that they're doing what they can in order
to restore some sort of sense of fiscal responsibility after
(10:31):
being you know what a treasury say that between twenty
nineteen and twenty twenty three there was a structural deficit
of about one percent of GDP. Now that's totally unsustainable.
It does require a lot of hard decisions and that
and it doesn't mean taking money out of the economy,
even if that even if that money is just discretionary
spending by public servants, and you know, it's an unineviable task.
(10:56):
And you know, I think.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
You're not making me feel too comfortable.
Speaker 6 (11:00):
Well, look, there's a lot of there's a lot of
luck involved. You know, they can they can try and
steer away from the world Paul and the two headed
monster on the other side, But ultimately, you know that
there is a bit of luck involved in terms of
you know, the economic conditions. And look, I think you said,
as it has to improve, Well, I mean, surely we're you.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
It's been coming for a while.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Friday Face Off, Ben Thomas, Nick Leggett, let's go. We
started the show talking about vision for Wellington. A group
of people that have come together and you know, holding
these success well it had some huge, huge guests, you know, big,
big time guests going along to it have a vision
for Wellington. Last night Julie Moore, Brad Olsen, Paul Ridley
(11:43):
Smith and Louise Tong spoke. Louise came up with the
ideas which I support and like cutting spending on staff,
social housing, Golden Mile.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Zoo.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
She wants to cut the zoo out. Nick Leggett, you
know more about local politics and most what do you think.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
Well, I think that when Louise Tong and that group
of PEP people say stuff, we should listen. But the
thing is business and finance, business and finance and politics
are something else, and so we do need to be
really clear that you can write a prescription, but or
you can write, you know, and say this is what
(12:22):
we think should happen, but actually the delivering of it
comes on the back of an election and the people
who are elected to a council and the will of
Wellingtonians to accept it. But anybody who says that status
quo and local government, particularly local government spending is okay
and we should stick to it, is not getting it
because councils and I don't.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
To be fair, they don't think we're status quo is okay?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Do they vision and four?
Speaker 5 (12:48):
No, no, no, no, no, I'm saying I'm talking about generally,
anybody who wants to defend the status quo needs to
be listening to these kinds of conversations. I think there
are two issues. Firstly, I think local government should really
work out what its core business and its core spenders
and trim the sales that will only last for so long.
Nick because the system of local government, the funding of
(13:12):
structures of local government are not fit for today's world,
and so we have to reimagine that. But we've also
got to you know, and we're going to talk about
this water metro water that's happening. It's what that's going
to do is is going to gut a lot of
local government. It's going to hollow it out. And so
we need to be looking now. We need to be
(13:34):
thinking now about what are some alternative structures, what are
some alternative ways of doing things if we think local
government is important, I.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Do, Okay, I can I just go to Ben.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
But I want to come back to you Nick, because
I've been sort of I don't know whether concentrating, but
I've been looking at the Australian system a lot with
their local body basically they are local government. Do we
need to have more power in our and our local
council's Ben? Do we need to go that way where
there is more power or less power?
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Absolutely, we've got a problem.
Speaker 6 (14:03):
No. Look, I mean in terms of the governance of
New Zealand. You know, you can look at our Parliament
and see the quality of the top one hundred and
twenty people that we can get. They're around a thousand
elected members in New Zealand local government, you're not getting
the best. I mean, I think the weird model that
(14:26):
we have of local government where it's sort of nominally
it's a kind of democratic sort of you know, some
people say it's a sort of constitutional layer of government
in New Zealand. I think it's basically a sort of
weird quango that gets delegated powers and responsibilities to sort
of take things off central government's plate. But look at it,
(14:46):
I don't think it is for purpose. I don't think
that you would get a community group together to plan
water infrastructure. I don't think you would get a residence
association together to you know, plan a park or decide
you know, or a zoo or whatever.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
You know.
Speaker 6 (15:00):
They might contribute ideas, but you know, look, I've long
sort of thought we just probably need to a bom
plish local government altogether, maybe have some sort of place
making capability of you know, for you know, community boards
or something like that.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Could we actually do that? Nick Leagan?
Speaker 4 (15:15):
I mean, I now, it's the first time anyone's ever
suggested it, and it's.
Speaker 5 (15:19):
Danger I think been you know, people would listen to that,
and some might agree, but others would go, well, where
would be my local voice?
Speaker 3 (15:28):
So I'm well, that would be my local MP, wouldn't
it really? I mean, but I mean that's what you're
talking about.
Speaker 5 (15:34):
The different issues. I've just come back from Canada. They've
got three tiers of government. You know, They've got the provincial,
which is that that Australian. Then they've got municipal which
is local council, and they've got federal, which is the
big you know, the out what we'd call center government.
We are very we're a very centralized country, and I
think that what we want to do, we want to
build more of a tension between our two branches of government.
(15:57):
I don't think it is in the way that local
government is currently conceived. I think we should have more
of a regional government that can do some of that
bigger the network planning, the you know that, the transport,
get that happening, you know where there's a bit of scale.
And actually, as Ben says, that local voice is still
really important, so he mentioned placemaking, but it might be
(16:17):
those local facilities. It's a neighborhood being able to speak
out and say we want this or we don't want that,
and somebody being able to listen and pack that up
and do something with it. I don't we're small, we
can do things more efficiently, but I think wiping out
a whole voice. I mean my biggest problem with local
governors and I think the people we do elect don't
have the power to do what residents and electors want
(16:40):
them to do because we've got a corporate system.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Can I come to you Ben on amalgamation?
Speaker 6 (16:45):
Now?
Speaker 4 (16:45):
I know that you know you've had a lot of
time in your previous life in Wellington.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
You've also had a lot of time in Auckland.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
I mean amalgamation for Wellington Lower Heart, Upperhart Pottyder in Wellington.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
You like that idea. I love it personally.
Speaker 6 (17:00):
Well, look, I guess if we're looking at the ultimate
goal of abolition of local government, I suppose reducing the
number of authority. Is this with amalgamations is a step?
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (17:10):
Look, I think that it's inevitable. You know, I think
Wellington is not necessarily the use case. The use case
that's sort of you know, these tiny sort of district councils.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Wire rapid country.
Speaker 5 (17:23):
I'll tell you why Wellington is the use case, ben
because Wellington City's population fell at the last census. We
have the hollowing out of education and social services, and
our economy is on its knees. The performing parts of
this region that provide much of the labor forcer and
put it to it, and the Hut Valley and the
Carpitty Coast and even the wided Upper and I'm not
suggesting they should be part of it. We actually need
to get on the same page. There are too many
(17:45):
divisions here.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
So they need to be enlisted. Can they need to
be conscripted.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
Do you know that this is this is driven. Like
a decade ago, I supported amalgamation for this region because
I wanted Wellington City to help the rest out. It's
now reversed. But the truth is that our interests as
I live and put it to fifty percent of our
population come into town every day. Put it to a residence,
provide the labor force for the Wellington CBD and get
(18:10):
none of the rating benefit. Who gets that massive subsidy
on their residential rates.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
It's people that are.
Speaker 5 (18:16):
Fortunate enough to live in Wellington City. Your hometown of
Tawer is in Wellington City, you know, a couple of
hundred meters away, and put it to We're not yet.
The local boundaries tell us that Tawa has more in
common with Mirrormr than it does with put it. It's insane,
it's insane.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
It's nuts.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
I'd love to keep this going, but I mean I'm
down for it. I mean I'm down for at least
having the conversation.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
We've got more in common together. We can still enhance
local voice and do better with local services, but the
big issues should be discussed and decided regionally, and we
trip ourselves up every time I say to people, I've
got a PhD in Wellington tripping itself up on the
big issues. We just can't make a decision and stick
(19:04):
to it. There is no vision, there is no idea,
there is no plan, and you know the infighting among
the councils is not that great.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Friday face off with body X Mayor and Infrastructure in
New Zealand CEO.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Do you like that?
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Nick Leggott and political commentator Ben Thomas, I'm going to
cough right back on to it. Despite soon having a
new water entity, Wellington water bills from the second half
of this year will be the equivalent of fifty dollars
a week and by two thousand and thirty three the
bills will reach twenty dollars a day. Now, Nick Leggett,
(19:42):
you know a little bit about water. Is it now now.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Or never that we need water meters? Will water meters
fix things?
Speaker 6 (19:49):
Well?
Speaker 5 (19:50):
What water meters do is they do a couple of things.
The first day they more equitably charge water by use.
So a pensioner on affixingcome living by themselves is not
paying as they do at the moment, the same amount
as my family who you know there are seven of
us in the household, right, Why should.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
We have a flat rate and you've got five cars
and wash them every week?
Speaker 5 (20:10):
Well no, but anyway, the thing is that So that's
that's one part of it. The other thing that water
meters do will tell us where the leaks are, particularly
on private properties, but also on the public network.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
We treat what.
Speaker 5 (20:23):
It costs us about twelve million dollars a year, probably
a bit more now to treat the water that we
currently lose in leaks in pipes. So forty of the
water that we take from the aquifers and the rivers
and wet Wainui mata and at upper heart, we treat it.
We pay to treat it. It comes down the pipes
and forty percent of that gets lost along the way
(20:43):
due to leaks. That is inefficient, it's bad for the
environment and it's something that we need to change. And
you know, so last year, should I say this year,
we've only fixed about nine kilometers of pipes in the
Wellington region because councils are constrained with the capital they've chosen,
and they are actually a lot of them are at
their debt limits. We should be replacing one hundred and
(21:05):
twenty kilometers a year just to stay on top of it.
The new water entity and these costs that you've read
out are there indicative right, But a new water entity
under the Government's Local Water unwell policy needs to be established.
It will own the assets, it will be able to
borrow more to do the work faster, get more efficiencies
because Wellington Water hasn't been able to get efficiencies. There's
(21:28):
a lot of start stop because we only get really
funded on three years if we're lucky. Sometimes it's just
year by year. So we need to build that market
out and have the guarantee of funding and then have
the right systems and this is we've had failures in this,
like Wellington Water doesn't have an asset management or a
finance system, so it's got to have those systems to
(21:50):
understand where these assets need to be replaced. And newsflash,
that's going to cost more money. You think about all
the leaks that people have seen and actually the councils
don't have been really good at providing money to fix
them and Welling Waters fix them, but it's only a
patch job. The underlying pipes still need replacing. We know this,
We've seen this, we actually have to understand that to
(22:14):
get better, to improve waste water and water and storm water,
we've got to have a new company that owns the
assets and can.
Speaker 6 (22:20):
Do the work.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
All right now, I've got to come to you being
on this is this the start of the government sort
of exactly what I was saying before we went to
the break where the government's going to take over some
bigger the bigger powers of being within the council.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
User pays you like it or not.
Speaker 6 (22:37):
Well, absolutely for water, I mean, you know, to a
certain extent, you need meeting, as Nick was saying, to
first of all, identify where the leaks are. Second of all,
to encourage people not to over use water.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
That was the conservation always.
Speaker 6 (22:50):
A big issue in Auckland, where you know, most dry
summers there'll be a bit of nervousness about the reservoirs.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
We have that here on one into two by the way.
Speaker 6 (22:59):
Yeah, and so you know, I think it's a no brainer.
Of course, there is an initial cost up front, but
you know you're actually you're putting the right incentives in place,
and look in terms of the massively increased cost, you
know that was always coming down the pipeline, so to speak,
which was you know, we saw this with the previous
government's proposal for the Three Waters reform. In fact, I
(23:23):
think the DIA Department of Internal Affairs had costings where
you know, by twenty forty water bills would be twenty
thousand dollars a year, thirty thousand dollars a year. I mean,
it all seemed to bit sort of voodoo numbers, but
at the same time, it does reflect the massive historical
under investment, in part because elected local government members like
to spend money on things that are above the ground,
(23:44):
not below the grounds where no one can see them,
you know, which I think you know, and that was
an incentive problem with the way local government is structured,
with the way people are elected, with the way decisions
were made and budgets were made. So look, I think
you know, the government had to put sort of guardrails
in place in terms of regulation by the Communis Commission,
which is what they've done with local water done well.
(24:07):
Councils do have some flexibility, but the councils do have
to be creative in order to in order to meet
these goals. If they don't want to go through the
recommended Process.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
Friday face off with Ben Thomas and Nick Leggett. I
want to lighten it up for the last part of
the show because it's coming up to twelve o'clock. Australian
Josh Winslet won twenty two million dollars. He's working as
a trade down South one lotto. That's pretty good. You
come to New Zealand for a little bit of a
job and a little bit of a break. You win
lotto win twenty two million dollars, went home, got into drugs,
(24:39):
got drug convictions, went mixed with the wrong crowd. So
often you hear and I think it's seventy percent in
America people that win a big lottery end up going
broke or losing everything. Ben, how much harm or how
much danger is it winning big, big inheritance and winning big?
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Do you?
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Are?
Speaker 4 (25:00):
You a guy that buys a lotto ticket and then
dreams as he walks to the cat.
Speaker 6 (25:04):
I always forget to buy a lotto ticket. So this
is my conservative fiscal strategy is you know, I sometimes
I do my dreaming, but then I just I walked
straight past dream without a ticket, you know. So look, yeah,
in a similar way. Look, you know, professional athletes often
(25:26):
in the United States. Well seen you guys like David
two are here. You know you will hit sort of
you know, this kind of big jackpot. And if you
don't have strategies in place, off and if you're not
surrounded by the right people and you.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Know, uh, it's gone. Yeah, it can go.
Speaker 6 (25:44):
It can go pretty quickly. It turns out, you know,
you don't have to be the New Zealand government to
be able to spend money really really quickly for not
much in return.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
Nicholas, and you want one of those guys that buy,
I don't know whether you'd buy.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
I don't think you would buy.
Speaker 5 (25:58):
I'm understood in your view that I wouldn't buy. Actually, yeah,
we were. We were kind of prolific lotto buyers. And
then we did this financial you know advice thing, and
the financial advisor said, so have you one lotter year?
And was and I thought, how dare you, you know,
poor scorn on our lotto buying. And then when I then,
when I did a bit of a table, I actually
(26:18):
realized if we put the forty bucks a week, if
we invested the forty bucks a week for the next
twenty five years, we'd have like I don't know one
hundred and fifty thousand dollars and.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Said, you know what, you stopped buying.
Speaker 5 (26:29):
I became I became financially responsible about eighteen months ago.
And well, I shouldn't say financial was just I made.
I made a little adjustment, right, and but so my
policy now is only buy take it if it's over
twenty minutes.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
I knew you were going to say that. You're going
to say it's big. I hate people, but like being
twenty bucks a week.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
Like being I forget too now, even because I'm out
of the habit.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
What about if you don't drink and you don't smoke,
and you don't go out with wild woman like me?
So twenty bucks a week's my little dream?
Speaker 5 (26:57):
Like you have a bed and you know that I
don't do those three things.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Yeah, I presume you know.
Speaker 6 (27:04):
I will say that I do. I do like a
like a go on the pokees and eighty dollars windfall
has changed, if not my life, my night a couple
of times.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
Yeah, I can't go there the bus because I worked
in places that I knew to.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
I'm going to take a break. I'm not going to
get the easiest job.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
He wants the hots and knots Okay, I wanted to
I want you quickly to tell me because I want
to get this the easiest job you have ever done,
or what's the easiest job you think someone could do?
Because I thought library assistance would be.
Speaker 6 (27:36):
The easiest job. I look, I think any job is
easy if you're good at it, or if you can
slack off. So what you're really asking is what's the
easiest job to slack off on? And for me, it
was when I worked at you when there was a
university and my friend got me a part time job
at a war games store selling historical miniatures for people
(27:58):
to do battle re enactments and things. And it was
a very easy job because people would come in and
ask me about the you know, what color to paint
the history uniforms and what the rules are, and I
would just say.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
I have no idea, what's the easiest job you do?
Speaker 5 (28:14):
That was the best job I've ever had. I've actually
enjoyed everything I've done, right from when I started work
when I was about thirteen. In a Chinese takeaway too.
They've all been challenging in their own way, and they've
all been interesting and I've liked them all, so I
know that, and I actually don't think that. To be honest,
I heard you what you said about librarians. I don't
(28:34):
think any job is easy, and I think we shouldn't
actually judge and think that being a librarian is easy.
I know I train every Saturday morning with a librarian.
Shout out to Judith. She the work she does in
supporting people to learn and to study, and to you know,
it's it's complex and it requires break and they're underpaid.
Speaker 6 (28:56):
And let's throw in a bit of social work and.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
See if you don't have to pay bills. Owning your
bar is the perfect job, you know. Paying the bills
is the problem.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
The Friday than not.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Right?
Speaker 4 (29:18):
Oh, hots and nots, nick Legget, give me your hots
and knots please.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
Well the Plessy Carife getting the Hurricanes player of the
year as my hot. He is a guy we want
to see in a black jersey. I completely agree with you.
And I've got a second hot that is put into
a city council and hopefully having these indicative votes but
not binding, binding votes on whether the region should look
(29:43):
at local government reform again. Put it to the people
first rather than the top down. It's the bottom up.
And if you don't like amalgamation and you live in
those places, vote against it.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
You know, I'm becoming a real fan of Anita Bacon's.
I really are like it is she is.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
And she does get things done.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
I think, yeah, and Thomas, come on, give us your
hots and knots.
Speaker 6 (30:03):
I look my hots like all members of the well
Andton closeted political class, my hot is Field Days. You know, nothing, nothing,
nothing better than getting out there with the real New
Zealand in your smallest, spotless brand news Swandra, you.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Know, every every hangar honor in the world's at Field Days.
Hail well fellow, How are things at the farm not hot?
You're not hot? Not hot?
Speaker 6 (30:32):
Is how extremely not hot? I've been this week? It
seems like it's already been a very very long winter.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
About cold days, fair, they've only had three cold days.
Speaker 6 (30:43):
You know. Look, I I think if the I think
if the you know they used to have the problem
with the hanging street lamps in Wellington. I think they
need to retool the budget to get you know, seasonal
effective disorder light lamps in every home, and then we
might see some progress in this city.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Ben Thomas, Nick Leggett, thank you very much for joining us.
Have a great weekend and it's not going to be
that cold Ben, Just for your sake, we've had three
cold days, three really cold days.
Speaker 6 (31:10):
Lucky we've all got our swan droner.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
Yes right, yeah, thanks for having me, Thanks for coming in,
both of you.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said B Wellington's official week interview. It's
Friday Fasar with Kudovic Property Management, a better rental experience
for all, visit dot Cot on its head Thursday.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Stars, I don't care.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Joining us for Friday face off.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
This week is Infrastructs, a New Zealand CEO and ex
potty to me and Nicholas Leggett.
Speaker 5 (00:53):
Good morning, Nicholas Mills.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
How are you?
Speaker 5 (00:55):
It's great to be here.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
You're always better when I when your Dorset tones and
personality arrive into the studio. And political commentator Ben Thomas,
who I haven't ever met before. I mean, that's pretty strange,
isn't it. Man, If you're your position in the city
I haven't met before.
Speaker 6 (01:14):
Especially in Wellington. You know you'd expect that you just
sort of end up at the same place, you know,
at some point in the notes sometimes.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Yeah, but your trouble as your bee hiveh end I've
already talked about that. I mean, you know, you guys
are all down the beehive en. I'm down the Courtney.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Place, and you're were the real people right of the
party part Yeah, yeah, completely different, different.
Speaker 6 (01:30):
That entire end of town has shut down at about
seven pm, apart from the beehive.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
That's good to meet you. It's good to meet you.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Thank you for coming along, and let's have a fun hour.
Just so you know, you're welcome to interrupt at any stage.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
You're welcome to say anything you want, right or wrong.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Disagree, agree, and if you want to have a crack
at mate, it's open slather. But everybody else he's been
a chairperson of wanted to water, so it's easy to
have a crackhead. So by all beans, clip them over
the air. He'll take it a good step. Right, Let's
start with the pole, a new carrier pole has been
has Labor overtaking National very very slightly slam Magic Labor
(02:09):
on thirty four point eight sent National on thirty three
point five percent.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Just start with you on this one. Ben. For me,
you know, I like.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
Cress Sipkins, but I kind of don't understand why he's
still in charge.
Speaker 6 (02:25):
Well, I mean he would probably say look at the results,
you know, don't mess with what's working.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
You know, I've got a fighting shot on these poles.
Speaker 6 (02:34):
Have Yeah, Look, I mean if you if you look
at the totality of polls that have come out or
disregard Roy Morgan. I think you can safely do it's tight,
it's you know, it is a toss up, and you
would probably come down to what's happening there, you know,
like anything can happen to media could strike New Zealand.
But you would be thinking if you're the current prime minister,
(02:56):
you know the economy is liable to be ticking upwards
by then.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
You would love to.
Speaker 6 (03:03):
Go into eight weeks of campaign. You know, sending out
priests really is encouraging people to ask Crusipkins what he
thinks of what have been Arbity Waity and Demonada Wopak
have said that day. So look, I think reasonably comfortable position.
You know, it's a good position for labor now, probably
better than they would have expected a year ago. But
(03:23):
you know, it suddenly doesn't offer them much solace. I
think in a tough election.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Can we just put this down to the budget. Is
it just a budget that's making them you know, I mean,
you know it was always going to be a nothing
budget and it was a nothing budget.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
So people are reacting to that. Do you think it
could be or not.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
I think it's I'm surprised at how much this is
actually held. You know, in terms of the election result,
things haven't moved much, and you've got Labor and National
both in the early thirties. I guess that concerns me
a little bit because I am I'm in the center
of the political spectrum and when you've got the larger
(04:01):
parties send to right and sener left squeezed the extremes
of ones that have grown and are growing, and that
bothers me. And I think, you know, we can feel
that out there that you know, we're not a particularly
happy place at the moment, and New Zealand is economically
in a bit of a funk. But I agree with
Ben the election and with Unich the election will come
(04:22):
down to how people feel about the economy in the
year's time. Do they feel that their livelihoods are you know,
on the up. And I think as well that extremity
on the political spectrum to Chris Hopkins Left will be
a problem for him unless he can or Labor can
(04:44):
make New Zealand First look like a realistic coalition partner.
And I wouldn't rule that out.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
I mean, the chances that are pretty slight.
Speaker 6 (04:51):
I disagree.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
I disagree. I think it's I wouldn't. I think all
bets are off. Now Winston's not Deputy PM, he's he
is still the smartest rooster in the hen House.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
But he could not possibly go back on his word.
He couldn't possibly turned around and join a COI lecton
could he with with with Chris Hopkins?
Speaker 3 (05:10):
He said no.
Speaker 6 (05:11):
Well, look, you know, look, I think that there is
a pretty established tradition now of noble self sacrifice from
Labor Party leaders. Andrew Little did it. His His his
reputation soared after that by you know, putting himself out
to pasture in favor of Justinda Ardern as the leader
close to the election. If Chris Hopkins were to lead
(05:34):
his part, you know, we're to lead his party onto
an ultimate victory next year, you know, with the help
of New Zealand first, one stop along the way, maybe
just having a bit of a lie down on a
sacrificial altar in front of New Zealand first at the
fun and and do you.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Reckon that's possible?
Speaker 5 (05:50):
Of course it is Ian look how tight it is.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
But I do do.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
You think he had stepped out? Have got if he
was in a position where he was a power broker.
We're talking about Chris Hopkins, and they went to New
Zealand first and said, okay, what's the deal, what do
you have to do. What happens if Winston says actually
I want to be primes, I.
Speaker 5 (06:07):
Mean that will all depend on vote. Look, I think
that's no way out into the Yeah, I.
Speaker 6 (06:12):
Don't think that would happen post election. I think what
you'd be talking about is if Labor was still, as
Nick says, you know, in the early thirties, so outperforming
the election, which was a disaster, but still not really
looking like they might be able to form a government
without party Mardi, without New Zealand first, then you might
see sentiment shift amongst the public, and you know, you
(06:34):
might see the party prevail upon Nipkins to do something selfless.
And a lot of that would depend on his own ratings,
So it wouldn't it wouldn't happen in a vacuum.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
But and I mean I also just to defend Chris
Hipkins here, I think he's doing a good job based
on what he's got. I mean, as being said, the
polls are you know, a releively healthy for him, he
has been Prime minister. He's been a very experienced minister.
He's got a lot to add and you know he's
only forty six. He's you know, he's a young man.
(07:04):
I say that, you know, and he also he's the
most experienced person that the Parliamentary Labor Party has. And
I just want to push back on this idea that
you know that the economy is suddenly going to improve.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
It has to well, I mean, if it doesn't improve
this time next year, I think I think that the
coalitions in real trub.
Speaker 5 (07:30):
What I'm saying is not because I don't want it to.
Quite clearly, there are people out there who are doing
it really really hard. You know, hundreds of jobs are
being lost a week. Of course, there's some meds in
the governments given that I hope will improve things, but
there has not been stimulus and you know, money pumped
into the economy to get things going. And I say
(07:52):
that because I work in the infrastructure area. You know,
this is an industry that's that's going without and we
just hope that the medicine will pay off. And it's
but if you talk, if it doesn't, If it doesn't,
then there are going to you know then then the
election is going on, right.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Well, Ben, they're already seeing the results of the government's plan,
aren't they. I mean, giving them the twenty percent tax
reduction on the asset stuff. I mean the field days
people are very excited.
Speaker 6 (08:20):
Oh look, I think if you're in the market for
a new tractor, that would be a fantastic you know,
there would be mana from heaven on budget Day. You know,
I think you know it it is, you know, the
investment booster is also essentially the ute boost, you know,
and I think even the government admitted that that you
probably would see a huge surgeon highlights sales along with
(08:42):
more productives.
Speaker 5 (08:43):
There's good political symbolism and that as well as.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
You're saying that they weren't. But they sort of were
with that a little bit, weren't they.
Speaker 6 (08:49):
Well, and what's that calculated about is zero points seven
zero point eight percent GDPs sort of you know, pumping
up to the.
Speaker 5 (08:56):
Next year because they're also really sensitive about inflation, as
they should be, and they've done I think a good
job and tightening the reins on spending. So the stimulus
they've given is there. I guess what I'm saying is
this was a government that was elected to deliver. Chris
Bishop's done a really good job and infrastructure and getting
all the systems and the settings right. But what we
(09:18):
do need to see is some work and market some
new projects so people feel as though, you know, the
world is that the New Zealand is progressing and that
we're building some stuff. And look, that's there's plenty of
time to run on that, and I think we will
see some new projects well before the election, but we
do need spades in the ground.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
What's been what's your gut telling you about, you know,
performance of the government looking forward? I mean, I'm convinced
of they don't show something pretty pretty big in the
next twelve months, you know, it could be a major shakeup.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Well.
Speaker 6 (09:48):
Look, ultimately, the economy, especially at the economy of somewhere
like New Zealand, is not dictated by the government. You know,
we're hostages to fortune, which is a nice way of
saying Donald Trump and his administration and the kind of
global resetting of the world order that's sort of in place,
you know, or that's happening right around us. So look,
(10:08):
you know what we've got is, you know, our government
are basically steering you know, Chris Likeson always says it
takes a long time to turn the ship around. They're
sort of steering a raft on the yeah, on the
high seat, on the high seat, right exactly. And look,
I think that they're doing what they can in order
to restore some sort of sense of fiscal responsibility after
(10:31):
being you know what a treasury say that between twenty
nineteen and twenty twenty three there was a structural deficit
of about one percent of GDP. Now that's totally unsustainable.
It does require a lot of hard decisions and that
and it doesn't mean taking money out of the economy,
even if that even if that money is just discretionary
spending by public servants, and you know, it's an unineviable task.
(10:56):
And you know, I think.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
You're not making me feel too comfortable.
Speaker 6 (11:00):
Well, look, there's a lot of there's a lot of
luck involved. You know, they can they can try and
steer away from the world Paul and the two headed
monster on the other side, But ultimately, you know that
there is a bit of luck involved in terms of
you know, the economic conditions. And look, I think you said,
as it has to improve, Well, I mean, surely we're you.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
It's been coming for a while.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Friday Face Off, Ben Thomas, Nick Leggett, let's go. We
started the show talking about vision for Wellington. A group
of people that have come together and you know, holding
these success well it had some huge, huge guests, you know, big,
big time guests going along to it have a vision
for Wellington. Last night Julie Moore, Brad Olsen, Paul Ridley
(11:43):
Smith and Louise Tong spoke. Louise came up with the
ideas which I support and like cutting spending on staff,
social housing, Golden Mile.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Zoo.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
She wants to cut the zoo out. Nick Leggett, you
know more about local politics and most what do you think.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
Well, I think that when Louise Tong and that group
of PEP people say stuff, we should listen. But the
thing is business and finance, business and finance and politics
are something else, and so we do need to be
really clear that you can write a prescription, but or
you can write, you know, and say this is what
(12:22):
we think should happen, but actually the delivering of it
comes on the back of an election and the people
who are elected to a council and the will of
Wellingtonians to accept it. But anybody who says that status
quo and local government, particularly local government spending is okay
and we should stick to it, is not getting it
because councils and I don't.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
To be fair, they don't think we're status quo is okay?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Do they vision and four?
Speaker 5 (12:48):
No, no, no, no, no, I'm saying I'm talking about generally,
anybody who wants to defend the status quo needs to
be listening to these kinds of conversations. I think there
are two issues. Firstly, I think local government should really
work out what its core business and its core spenders
and trim the sales that will only last for so long.
Nick because the system of local government, the funding of
(13:12):
structures of local government are not fit for today's world,
and so we have to reimagine that. But we've also
got to you know, and we're going to talk about
this water metro water that's happening. It's what that's going
to do is is going to gut a lot of
local government. It's going to hollow it out. And so
we need to be looking now. We need to be
(13:34):
thinking now about what are some alternative structures, what are
some alternative ways of doing things if we think local
government is important, I.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Do, Okay, I can I just go to Ben.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
But I want to come back to you Nick, because
I've been sort of I don't know whether concentrating, but
I've been looking at the Australian system a lot with
their local body basically they are local government. Do we
need to have more power in our and our local
council's Ben? Do we need to go that way where
there is more power or less power?
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Absolutely, we've got a problem.
Speaker 6 (14:03):
No. Look, I mean in terms of the governance of
New Zealand. You know, you can look at our Parliament
and see the quality of the top one hundred and
twenty people that we can get. They're around a thousand
elected members in New Zealand local government, you're not getting
the best. I mean, I think the weird model that
(14:26):
we have of local government where it's sort of nominally
it's a kind of democratic sort of you know, some
people say it's a sort of constitutional layer of government
in New Zealand. I think it's basically a sort of
weird quango that gets delegated powers and responsibilities to sort
of take things off central government's plate. But look at it,
(14:46):
I don't think it is for purpose. I don't think
that you would get a community group together to plan
water infrastructure. I don't think you would get a residence
association together to you know, plan a park or decide
you know, or a zoo or whatever.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
You know.
Speaker 6 (15:00):
They might contribute ideas, but you know, look, I've long
sort of thought we just probably need to a bom
plish local government altogether, maybe have some sort of place
making capability of you know, for you know, community boards
or something like that.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Could we actually do that? Nick Leagan?
Speaker 4 (15:15):
I mean, I now, it's the first time anyone's ever
suggested it, and it's.
Speaker 5 (15:19):
Danger I think been you know, people would listen to that,
and some might agree, but others would go, well, where
would be my local voice?
Speaker 3 (15:28):
So I'm well, that would be my local MP, wouldn't
it really? I mean, but I mean that's what you're
talking about.
Speaker 5 (15:34):
The different issues. I've just come back from Canada. They've
got three tiers of government. You know, They've got the provincial,
which is that that Australian. Then they've got municipal which
is local council, and they've got federal, which is the
big you know, the out what we'd call center government.
We are very we're a very centralized country, and I
think that what we want to do, we want to
build more of a tension between our two branches of government.
(15:57):
I don't think it is in the way that local
government is currently conceived. I think we should have more
of a regional government that can do some of that
bigger the network planning, the you know that, the transport,
get that happening, you know where there's a bit of scale.
And actually, as Ben says, that local voice is still
really important, so he mentioned placemaking, but it might be
(16:17):
those local facilities. It's a neighborhood being able to speak
out and say we want this or we don't want that,
and somebody being able to listen and pack that up
and do something with it. I don't we're small, we
can do things more efficiently, but I think wiping out
a whole voice. I mean my biggest problem with local
governors and I think the people we do elect don't
have the power to do what residents and electors want
(16:40):
them to do because we've got a corporate system.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Can I come to you Ben on amalgamation?
Speaker 6 (16:45):
Now?
Speaker 4 (16:45):
I know that you know you've had a lot of
time in your previous life in Wellington.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
You've also had a lot of time in Auckland.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
I mean amalgamation for Wellington Lower Heart, Upperhart Pottyder in Wellington.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
You like that idea. I love it personally.
Speaker 6 (17:00):
Well, look, I guess if we're looking at the ultimate
goal of abolition of local government, I suppose reducing the
number of authority. Is this with amalgamations is a step?
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (17:10):
Look, I think that it's inevitable. You know, I think
Wellington is not necessarily the use case. The use case
that's sort of you know, these tiny sort of district councils.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Wire rapid country.
Speaker 5 (17:23):
I'll tell you why Wellington is the use case, ben
because Wellington City's population fell at the last census. We
have the hollowing out of education and social services, and
our economy is on its knees. The performing parts of
this region that provide much of the labor forcer and
put it to it, and the Hut Valley and the
Carpitty Coast and even the wided Upper and I'm not
suggesting they should be part of it. We actually need
to get on the same page. There are too many
(17:45):
divisions here.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
So they need to be enlisted. Can they need to
be conscripted.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
Do you know that this is this is driven. Like
a decade ago, I supported amalgamation for this region because
I wanted Wellington City to help the rest out. It's
now reversed. But the truth is that our interests as
I live and put it to fifty percent of our
population come into town every day. Put it to a residence,
provide the labor force for the Wellington CBD and get
(18:10):
none of the rating benefit. Who gets that massive subsidy
on their residential rates.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
It's people that are.
Speaker 5 (18:16):
Fortunate enough to live in Wellington City. Your hometown of
Tawer is in Wellington City, you know, a couple of
hundred meters away, and put it to We're not yet.
The local boundaries tell us that Tawa has more in
common with Mirrormr than it does with put it. It's insane,
it's insane.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
It's nuts.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
I'd love to keep this going, but I mean I'm
down for it. I mean I'm down for at least
having the conversation.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
We've got more in common together. We can still enhance
local voice and do better with local services, but the
big issues should be discussed and decided regionally, and we
trip ourselves up every time I say to people, I've
got a PhD in Wellington tripping itself up on the
big issues. We just can't make a decision and stick
(19:04):
to it. There is no vision, there is no idea,
there is no plan, and you know the infighting among
the councils is not that great.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Friday face off with body X Mayor and Infrastructure in
New Zealand CEO.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Do you like that?
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Nick Leggott and political commentator Ben Thomas, I'm going to
cough right back on to it. Despite soon having a
new water entity, Wellington water bills from the second half
of this year will be the equivalent of fifty dollars
a week and by two thousand and thirty three the
bills will reach twenty dollars a day. Now, Nick Leggett,
(19:42):
you know a little bit about water. Is it now now.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Or never that we need water meters? Will water meters
fix things?
Speaker 6 (19:49):
Well?
Speaker 5 (19:50):
What water meters do is they do a couple of things.
The first day they more equitably charge water by use.
So a pensioner on affixingcome living by themselves is not
paying as they do at the moment, the same amount
as my family who you know there are seven of
us in the household, right, Why should.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
We have a flat rate and you've got five cars
and wash them every week?
Speaker 5 (20:10):
Well no, but anyway, the thing is that So that's
that's one part of it. The other thing that water
meters do will tell us where the leaks are, particularly
on private properties, but also on the public network.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
We treat what.
Speaker 5 (20:23):
It costs us about twelve million dollars a year, probably
a bit more now to treat the water that we
currently lose in leaks in pipes. So forty of the
water that we take from the aquifers and the rivers
and wet Wainui mata and at upper heart, we treat it.
We pay to treat it. It comes down the pipes
and forty percent of that gets lost along the way
(20:43):
due to leaks. That is inefficient, it's bad for the
environment and it's something that we need to change. And
you know, so last year, should I say this year,
we've only fixed about nine kilometers of pipes in the
Wellington region because councils are constrained with the capital they've chosen,
and they are actually a lot of them are at
their debt limits. We should be replacing one hundred and
(21:05):
twenty kilometers a year just to stay on top of it.
The new water entity and these costs that you've read
out are there indicative right, But a new water entity
under the Government's Local Water unwell policy needs to be established.
It will own the assets, it will be able to
borrow more to do the work faster, get more efficiencies
because Wellington Water hasn't been able to get efficiencies. There's
(21:28):
a lot of start stop because we only get really
funded on three years if we're lucky. Sometimes it's just
year by year. So we need to build that market
out and have the guarantee of funding and then have
the right systems and this is we've had failures in this,
like Wellington Water doesn't have an asset management or a
finance system, so it's got to have those systems to
(21:50):
understand where these assets need to be replaced. And newsflash,
that's going to cost more money. You think about all
the leaks that people have seen and actually the councils
don't have been really good at providing money to fix
them and Welling Waters fix them, but it's only a
patch job. The underlying pipes still need replacing. We know this,
We've seen this, we actually have to understand that to
(22:14):
get better, to improve waste water and water and storm water,
we've got to have a new company that owns the
assets and can.
Speaker 6 (22:20):
Do the work.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
All right now, I've got to come to you being
on this is this the start of the government sort
of exactly what I was saying before we went to
the break where the government's going to take over some
bigger the bigger powers of being within the council.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
User pays you like it or not.
Speaker 6 (22:37):
Well, absolutely for water, I mean, you know, to a
certain extent, you need meeting, as Nick was saying, to
first of all, identify where the leaks are. Second of all,
to encourage people not to over use water.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
That was the conservation always.
Speaker 6 (22:50):
A big issue in Auckland, where you know, most dry
summers there'll be a bit of nervousness about the reservoirs.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
We have that here on one into two by the way.
Speaker 6 (22:59):
Yeah, and so you know, I think it's a no brainer.
Of course, there is an initial cost up front, but
you know you're actually you're putting the right incentives in place,
and look in terms of the massively increased cost, you
know that was always coming down the pipeline, so to speak,
which was you know, we saw this with the previous
government's proposal for the Three Waters reform. In fact, I
(23:23):
think the DIA Department of Internal Affairs had costings where
you know, by twenty forty water bills would be twenty
thousand dollars a year, thirty thousand dollars a year. I mean,
it all seemed to bit sort of voodoo numbers, but
at the same time, it does reflect the massive historical
under investment, in part because elected local government members like
to spend money on things that are above the ground,
(23:44):
not below the grounds where no one can see them,
you know, which I think you know, and that was
an incentive problem with the way local government is structured,
with the way people are elected, with the way decisions
were made and budgets were made. So look, I think
you know, the government had to put sort of guardrails
in place in terms of regulation by the Communis Commission,
which is what they've done with local water done well.
(24:07):
Councils do have some flexibility, but the councils do have
to be creative in order to in order to meet
these goals. If they don't want to go through the
recommended Process.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
Friday face off with Ben Thomas and Nick Leggett. I
want to lighten it up for the last part of
the show because it's coming up to twelve o'clock. Australian
Josh Winslet won twenty two million dollars. He's working as
a trade down South one lotto. That's pretty good. You
come to New Zealand for a little bit of a
job and a little bit of a break. You win
lotto win twenty two million dollars, went home, got into drugs,
(24:39):
got drug convictions, went mixed with the wrong crowd. So
often you hear and I think it's seventy percent in
America people that win a big lottery end up going
broke or losing everything. Ben, how much harm or how
much danger is it winning big, big inheritance and winning big?
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Do you?
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Are?
Speaker 4 (25:00):
You a guy that buys a lotto ticket and then
dreams as he walks to the cat.
Speaker 6 (25:04):
I always forget to buy a lotto ticket. So this
is my conservative fiscal strategy is you know, I sometimes
I do my dreaming, but then I just I walked
straight past dream without a ticket, you know. So look, yeah,
in a similar way. Look, you know, professional athletes often
(25:26):
in the United States. Well seen you guys like David
two are here. You know you will hit sort of
you know, this kind of big jackpot. And if you
don't have strategies in place, off and if you're not
surrounded by the right people and you.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Know, uh, it's gone. Yeah, it can go.
Speaker 6 (25:44):
It can go pretty quickly. It turns out, you know,
you don't have to be the New Zealand government to
be able to spend money really really quickly for not
much in return.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
Nicholas, and you want one of those guys that buy,
I don't know whether you'd buy.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
I don't think you would buy.
Speaker 5 (25:58):
I'm understood in your view that I wouldn't buy. Actually, yeah,
we were. We were kind of prolific lotto buyers. And
then we did this financial you know advice thing, and
the financial advisor said, so have you one lotter year?
And was and I thought, how dare you, you know,
poor scorn on our lotto buying. And then when I then,
when I did a bit of a table, I actually
(26:18):
realized if we put the forty bucks a week, if
we invested the forty bucks a week for the next
twenty five years, we'd have like I don't know one
hundred and fifty thousand dollars and.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Said, you know what, you stopped buying.
Speaker 5 (26:29):
I became I became financially responsible about eighteen months ago.
And well, I shouldn't say financial was just I made.
I made a little adjustment, right, and but so my
policy now is only buy take it if it's over
twenty minutes.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
I knew you were going to say that. You're going
to say it's big. I hate people, but like being
twenty bucks a week.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
Like being I forget too now, even because I'm out
of the habit.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
What about if you don't drink and you don't smoke,
and you don't go out with wild woman like me?
So twenty bucks a week's my little dream?
Speaker 5 (26:57):
Like you have a bed and you know that I
don't do those three things.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Yeah, I presume you know.
Speaker 6 (27:04):
I will say that I do. I do like a
like a go on the pokees and eighty dollars windfall
has changed, if not my life, my night a couple
of times.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
Yeah, I can't go there the bus because I worked
in places that I knew to.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
I'm going to take a break. I'm not going to
get the easiest job.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
He wants the hots and knots Okay, I wanted to
I want you quickly to tell me because I want
to get this the easiest job you have ever done,
or what's the easiest job you think someone could do?
Because I thought library assistance would be.
Speaker 6 (27:36):
The easiest job. I look, I think any job is
easy if you're good at it, or if you can
slack off. So what you're really asking is what's the
easiest job to slack off on? And for me, it
was when I worked at you when there was a
university and my friend got me a part time job
at a war games store selling historical miniatures for people
(27:58):
to do battle re enactments and things. And it was
a very easy job because people would come in and
ask me about the you know, what color to paint
the history uniforms and what the rules are, and I
would just say.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
I have no idea, what's the easiest job you do?
Speaker 5 (28:14):
That was the best job I've ever had. I've actually
enjoyed everything I've done, right from when I started work
when I was about thirteen. In a Chinese takeaway too.
They've all been challenging in their own way, and they've
all been interesting and I've liked them all, so I
know that, and I actually don't think that. To be honest,
I heard you what you said about librarians. I don't
(28:34):
think any job is easy, and I think we shouldn't
actually judge and think that being a librarian is easy.
I know I train every Saturday morning with a librarian.
Shout out to Judith. She the work she does in
supporting people to learn and to study, and to you know,
it's it's complex and it requires break and they're underpaid.
Speaker 6 (28:56):
And let's throw in a bit of social work and.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
See if you don't have to pay bills. Owning your
bar is the perfect job, you know. Paying the bills
is the problem.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
The Friday than not.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Right?
Speaker 4 (29:18):
Oh, hots and nots, nick Legget, give me your hots
and knots please.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
Well the Plessy Carife getting the Hurricanes player of the
year as my hot. He is a guy we want
to see in a black jersey. I completely agree with you.
And I've got a second hot that is put into
a city council and hopefully having these indicative votes but
not binding, binding votes on whether the region should look
(29:43):
at local government reform again. Put it to the people
first rather than the top down. It's the bottom up.
And if you don't like amalgamation and you live in
those places, vote against it.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
You know, I'm becoming a real fan of Anita Bacon's.
I really are like it is she is.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
And she does get things done.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
I think, yeah, and Thomas, come on, give us your
hots and knots.
Speaker 6 (30:03):
I look my hots like all members of the well
Andton closeted political class, my hot is Field Days. You know, nothing, nothing,
nothing better than getting out there with the real New
Zealand in your smallest, spotless brand news Swandra, you.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Know, every every hangar honor in the world's at Field Days.
Hail well fellow, How are things at the farm not hot?
You're not hot? Not hot?
Speaker 6 (30:32):
Is how extremely not hot? I've been this week? It
seems like it's already been a very very long winter.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
About cold days, fair, they've only had three cold days.
Speaker 6 (30:43):
You know. Look, I I think if the I think
if the you know they used to have the problem
with the hanging street lamps in Wellington. I think they
need to retool the budget to get you know, seasonal
effective disorder light lamps in every home, and then we
might see some progress in this city.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Ben Thomas, Nick Leggett, thank you very much for joining us.
Have a great weekend and it's not going to be
that cold Ben, Just for your sake, we've had three
cold days, three really cold days.
Speaker 6 (31:10):
Lucky we've all got our swan droner.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
Yes right, yeah, thanks for having me, Thanks for coming in,
both of you.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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