The second phase of the Royal Commision into the government's response to Covid-19 is underway - but Labour leader Chris Hipkins says the investigation was intentionally designed to give conspiracy theorists a platform.
Is this a fair comment - and should Hipkins and former Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern front up at the inquiry?
Also, Resources Minister Shane Jones is not happy with DOC.
They have declined an application to extend an Otago gold mine because the mining company didn’t have a proper lizard management plan, with 700 jobs at risk according to the mining company. What's more important - jobs or lizards?
To answer those questions, Labour's police spokesperson Ginny Andersen and National's Otaki MP Tim Costley joined Nick Mills for Politics Thursday.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks d B, focusing in on the issues
that matter Politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings, News Talks b Shine.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Join us for Politics Thursday. This week is Labour's police
spokesperson Jenny Anderson.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Morning Jenny, Good morning, mat How are you.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
I'm great? Thanks yourself?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Not too bad? Yeah, enjoying some time with a kid
to school holiday.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I was going to say, you've got a week off,
so you'd be doing some stuff that you enjoy doing.
That's good and national's o techy in peterem Costley, are
you up in the Kebity Coast?
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Mister Costley?
Speaker 5 (00:51):
Hellocome morning grat three with you. I've snuck away for
a day with with the kids. I'd say it day
to not work, but to be I'm working most of
the time, but it's good to you. You get a
bit of time in the mornings in the evenings with them.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
It's great, good work, good work.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
This is kind of like your down week, isn't it.
I mean, this is the week that everyone calls your
down week of the year.
Speaker 5 (01:13):
A little bit, but it's also a great opportunity to
get out in the community like last week or the
last week and a half. Wheally, I've had so many
community events on it and it's great to make most
of that opportunity where Parliament's not sitting so you can
be really present love as well. I think that's really important.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
All right, let's start quickly with the ocr The Reserve
Bank decided not to move it yesterday. It remains at
three point two five, Tim. This is further show that
the economy is not where you guys really want it
to be right now.
Speaker 5 (01:44):
Oh, I think it shows that the plan is working.
You know, if we were worried, if the Reserve Bank
was worried about recession or inflation, you'd see a change
in that interest rate. I think this is what the
shows is that we're creating the kind of stable economy
that we said we were, that the platform we need
for growth, and so I think we can take a
bit of encouragement from that.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Jinny, I wouldn't be encouraged by it not coming down
further and not go out. It's not they don't have
the confidence, do they.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Well, it shows that there's still a lot of uncertainty
out there, and we know from looking around Wellington, how
local businesses are doing that. It is incredibly tough right
out right now, and what the government could be doing
is help create more jobs and providing cost of living
relief for kiwis. But they're not doing that. They're cutting
pay for pay equity, they're taking jobs out of construction,
(02:35):
and they're failing to provide the support that many families
really need right now when they're struggling.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Tim What is the government's plan to actually get the
economy stable enough or get it going the right way
so that we can actually bring the OCR down again?
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Is there a plan?
Speaker 5 (02:52):
Yeah, of course there's a plan, and I'll give you
the five points of it in just a second. But
just remember that the OCR kicks coming down and down
and down. Right we're historically at a pretty low level.
If you keep coming down the risks you create inflation
and we it's all what inflation does thanks to the
last labor government. It creates huge pressures and challenges with
the cost of living. So our plan is all about
(03:12):
going for growth. That's why we need to make sure
people have got the right skills. It's about investing in
education and training. It's about quality infrastructure like the Resonant
project and the Hutware Prospecious, the MP or the O
Too n L Road where I'm the MP and Hodefeno
a company. It's about making sure we've got the settings right,
the regulation right, that we've got the rules out of
the way. It's about getting investment and from overseas. You
(03:35):
know there are Everything we're doing you'll see is centered
around going for growth and a lot of the topics
you've got bound to talk about today's center on. This's
about how we get this country going for growth. Growth
brings opportunities to families in our region.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Jilly, Does that plan give you confidence?
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Not at all, And so you would have seen in
that Reserve Bank when they came out with it not
not changing that rate. They also stated that they expect
inflation to increase and they see it especially around food
prices and that's where families are really hoting Now butter
was I mean in use today still nine dollars you
know plus for a block of butter. It is unaffordable
(04:14):
for key Wes to pay for their heating bills and
to pay for good food over winter. And that is
not gross, that's unacceptable, and it's the cost of living
crisis that this government has completely failed to deliver on.
Speaker 5 (04:27):
So how do you answer that, Well, I'd love to
hear what the alternative is, because I've seen the Green's
alternative that's about eighty eight billion dollars of tax and
forty four billion dollars of debt that later. Don't have
a plan. Our plan is to go for growth so
that we have more money, we have more opportunities for family.
Jenny made it the point for me, to be honest.
She said, oh, we'll we'rerite a down a station. Well,
(04:47):
if you're worried about inflation, then you don't lower the
interest rates that that makes it work. We saw that
under the last Labor government. So what is Labour's plan?
How are they going to keep a stable economy, stock
prices going up, stop costs going up, but at the
same time bring growth and opportunities for more family And
the answer is that don't have Ginny.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Tim has got a point there.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
We have been waiting for a while for something from
labor and we're not getting anything, are we.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Well there was a great article today, Nick. It was
in MTDMA. It was in the hero about Video. It
was in the video video gaming area and they've seen
a twenty percent growth and jobs in and GDP for
the video gaming. Now, we came in at our last
budget and provided a good opportunity to keep jobs here
in New Zealand and to give people good opportunities to
(05:36):
develop that sector. That's an excellent example of how we
can stimulate the economy and grow jobs and that benefits everybody,
not just the wealthy. Right, let's move on more good
opportunities like what we've done there.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Okay, let's move on to the big debate. This speak's
been about the second phase of the COVID nineteen inquiry.
Chris Hipkins came out and said this.
Speaker 6 (05:58):
Governments don't generally establish a royal commission to look at
political decisions made by their predecessors, so this is somewhat unusual.
I think the terms of reference have been deliberately constructed
to achieve a particular outcome, particularly around providing a platform
for those who have conspiracy theorists views That seems to
have been specifically written into the terms of reference that
(06:19):
they get maximum Entita.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Jinny, is it really fair to claim this inquiry is
designed as a platform for conspiracy theorists?
Speaker 3 (06:28):
It has been unusual to have a second Royal Commission
of Inquiry after we've already had one, and it was
interesting that New Zealand First was excluded from being part
of that, even though they were involved in the decision
making in those early stages. So look, it was a
(06:49):
difficult time for New Zealand, as it was for all
people around the world. But it's important that what we're
doing here is to get good outcomes so we don't
have issues in the future. And I'm not sure that
this inquiry is actually focused.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
But you didn't answer my question. Is it actually fair
for your leader to claim that's designed as a platform
for conspiracy theorists?
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Well, I did address that. I see that it's a
second crack at something that's already happened with specifically excluding
New Zealand First. So it does give an unfaar opportunity,
and it does seem to be going down in areas
where it isn't particularly constructive or helpful.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
Okay, here in.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
New Zealand for a future pandemic.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Tim, I mean, let's think about this. Chris Hopkins did
allege that the terms of reference were designed to keep
decisions made by New Zealand First out of the inquiry.
What is your response to that, because that's a pretty
clear and easy fact to bring out, isn't it.
Speaker 5 (07:45):
Well, Look, he made two points. The first one was
that they shouldn't be looking at political decisions. I think
it needs to be careful here because as he's saying
that the decisions made around I two around lockdowns in
Auckland with political decisions, these are government decisions and we
shouldn't be afraid at looking them. Secondly about the conspiracy theorists, Look,
we should never be afraid in New Zealand Parliament of
(08:06):
hearing the views of all keyweks. And some of them
will be uncomfortable, some of them might be outrageous or
frankly a little bit mad. Some of them will be
actually really hopeful.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Hold on, hold on to me, hold on the answer.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
And you can't know because later have been really strong
on things like regulatory standards bills and treated principal bills,
saying that we should hear from every submitter, and now
they want to cherry pick who they listen to because
they're not comfortable with what the answers.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
But you haven't answered my question as why as New
Zealand first questions being kept out of the inquiry.
Speaker 5 (08:35):
Because well, as I understand it, it's because they are
expanding the time period that was looked at. So in
the last one, as Pipkins themselves said in that interview,
you can't look at things that were already covered, that
covered the initial period in twenty twenty when New Zealand
Firs were in government. Now we're saying, actually we want
to look at issues like MiQ about the second lockdown
(08:55):
Laukland that all took place. The reality is that all
took place when it was the sole labor government, so
naturally that's the period we're looking at.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Okay, Ginny, this inquiry is focused mainly on vaccineates and
the lockdowns. I mean now in retrospect, when you've looked
at it and you've thought about it, we're the vaccine
mandates too tough.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Well, I think you can have twenty twenty vision in hindsight.
What I'm grateful for is that my mum and my dad,
who are both in the seventies and my dad has
had health and lung issues, that they're still with us
right now. And I looked to many other countries around
the world who lost a significant amount of seniors when
(09:36):
COVID hit. So I'm grateful for the fact that I've
still got my parents here and they're able to be
grandparents to my kids. And we're very quick to forget
that so many lives were saved in New Zealand compared
to other countries.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
I'm going to ask you both this question because I
want an answer from both of you, but I'll start
with you.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
Tim.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Should both Chris Sipkins and just zinder Adurned dameer zinder
Adurn front up to the inquiry? Just a simple yes
or no?
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Please?
Speaker 5 (10:02):
I looked that up to them. I'm not going to
make that decision for them.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
But as as a New Zealand, I mean from anybody.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
As a New Zealander, don't you want to see the
two leaders that were running the pandemic actually front to
an inquiry? Just I mean, take the political part out
of it.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
Sure, best season the country been Sure, Well there's.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
A zoom you can do it. By zoom, you can
do it. Ginny, what is your thoughts do you think that?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I mean, just Zinda Arding's come out yesterday and said
that she will front. Chris Hipkins has said he'd always
answer any questions. Do you think it's right that they front.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
I don't know if they've even actually been properly asked
or not, but you know, if they are asked, that's
a decision for them to make. I'm not going to
tell them to appear before a committee. And Chris has
been pretty Chris Hipkins has said that he'll give every
information that's required and be helpful with the inquiry. But
that's a decision for him to make, not for me
(10:58):
to pass.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Coming on, Okay, I'm going to take a short break,
but surely I'll finish before we take this break with this.
Surely everyone that was involved should be fronting up to
the inquiry. If we're going to have an inquiry and
we're going to fix things and we're going to make
things better for the next time, and there will be
you next time, Surely everyone right.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Front of the first time, they're going to try and
front again. That's the point, right, Why are we doing
this again?
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Well it's the second phase, but anyway we can argue.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
About that in another day Minus New Zealand series.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Politics Thursday with Ginny Anderson and Tim Costley. Finance Minister
Nicola Willis has asked the IAD to look at where
the banks are paying their fair share of taxes. Were
some now predicting Nicola might try and introduce a higher
tax rate for banks, but David Seymour has come out
and said he thinks banks do pay their fair share. Ginny,
(11:47):
do banks pay enough tax?
Speaker 3 (11:52):
No, they should pay more. But it's kind of like
Nicola just woke up yesterday morning and realized we need
these giants to be paying proper tax revelation. I mean,
how at a touch can this government be. They've given
tax breaks already to lean more in tobacco companies, but
they're having a bit of a think about the banks
biggest belief.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
To be honest, how would this work? Tom?
Speaker 5 (12:14):
How?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I mean would they have a separate corporate tax increase
for everyone apart from banks or it would be just banks?
Speaker 4 (12:22):
I mean, how is it going to work?
Speaker 5 (12:25):
Here a minute, because I mean, I'm surprised. I thought
you were about to pull up Jenny on that madness
because she's saying that the biggest belief. We're just looking
at the banks now. But they had six years and
they did nothing, and now we're doing a home we're
looking at them. Nicla Willis didn't just wake up and
have a crazy thought yesterday morning. This has worked that
even in the article, if she bobbed to read it,
(12:45):
it said has been going on for months where she
has asked iod to look at a range of tax
settings along with the Revenue Minister to make sure we're
getting it right. And I think they'rey New Zealander would
actually want to think that we're asking these questions. You know,
we've had an inquiry into banking to make sure New
Zealanders are getting a fair opportunity. And actually, I think
(13:06):
this is a really reasonable question to ask. What if
the answer look like to answer your question, Nick, Well,
we don't know yet. That's the whole point of having
a look at this, to check the Sevings a right. Maybe,
like David Semore says, that will come out and say,
actually it's about right, it's pretty balanced right now. Maybe
we'll say we need to look at changing some settings,
but until we do the homework, we're not going to know.
So I don't think it's so outrageous as Jimmy sensory.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Tim's right, you had six years to do something about this.
We every six months we heard of the outrageous profits
banks were making. Someone has to look at it, and
Tim's right, you had the opportunity to look at it.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
What we what we did do is we were working
hard at establishing an ability for small businesses to borrow.
So right now, if you're a small business owner, you
practically need to borgage your house in order to access finance.
So it's really hard for New Zealand's SEMs to access finance.
So that's what we were working on. But I think
(14:06):
when we went further into doing the banking inquiry, that's
fell away because banks then lost the edge of contributing
to a fund that small businesses could benefit from. But
I think there is a real sickness of people are
just getting sick of hearing excuses from this government. I mean,
the weekly shop is not getting cheaper, it's not getting
easier for small business to survive, and bills seem to
(14:29):
keep going up and so just taking a look at
it and having a poke around right now isn't good enough.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
An interesting move from the government announce this morning that
they're offering jobs to people on the jobs he could
benefit to help clean up Nelson Tasman region after the
bad weather. There's six thousand people in job ready fit
and ready to work down there. They want to offer
them six hundred sorry that they want to offer work
to Ginny. Is this basically working for the Dolan Do
(14:57):
you like it?
Speaker 3 (14:59):
They were I think deployed in Wide Wor in the
cleanup in twenty twenty three and also in Nelson, Tasman
and twenty twenty two. So it's a kind of enhanced
task force Green. So local councils really benefit from working
with Working inncome to make arrangements so that people can
assess with clean up projects.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Do you like the idea?
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Well, if people want to do it, man, it's helping
the community. It seems like, Yeah, it's a good idea
to do. It's been done before and if it works
well in a community, it gives people good skills to
be able to pack up and take on for permanent employment.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
I agree with you, Tim Costley. This could go further,
couldn't it. Why don't we have something like this from
some set up like this in every community?
Speaker 5 (15:43):
I love this is a great thing. You know, people
in Jenny's language want Joss, Well, we're creating jobs, so
this is a great way to get people out there working,
give them some skills given something on their CV and
in the meantime any other than wage forty hours a week.
I think there are more opportunities. You know, there are
a range of roles that we have to still get
people in from overseas to fill. It was great when
(16:07):
can we step up and make the most of opportunities.
Last week I was in Living hosting our Social Development
Minisola is Upston talking about exactly this, working with local council,
local employers and MSD to go how do we connect
more employers than to employing people that are on that
job they can benefit looking for work and how to
encourage people that are on that to take the opportunity
(16:28):
so just quickly. We are very focused on quickly.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Tim you think that we'll go further.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
I think that the enhanced Paskal screen is used in
settings like this, like Cyclone Gabriel, like the Bull of Flods.
I think it's a great thing to use in these situations.
I think the work that we're doing as a government
to encourage people that can work and to work will
continue to go further.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
Okay, Resource Minister.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Jos sorry, I just want to add on that that
what we did when we're in government was Jobs for Nature,
which was getting people into conservation, so planting around the
Heart River for example, to flood protection, all of that work.
That was an excellent way of getting people into work
and jobs we need. That's all largely been cut by
this government. And also the cuts to the Department of
(17:11):
Conservation has lost many of those opportunities. So there were
good opportunities for job creation under Jobs for Nature. That's
all been kenned.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
All right, let me move on to Resources. Minister Shane
Jones is not happy with doc They have declined an
application to extend an Otaga gold mine because the mining
company didn't have a proper lizard lizard management plan. Now
there's seven hundred jobs at risk according to the mining
company Ginny. Surely seven hundred million dollars worth a turnover
(17:43):
as well. Money and jobs are more important than lizards.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Well yes, But Shane Jones is a very short term
thinker when long term thinking is needed for New Zealand.
In this government just continues to recycle the same old
ideas of exploiting the environment and it's going to sell
us down the river in the long run. I mean
Chris Bushop and the Heartbell in his own backyard has
changed all the fresh water standards, so now more night
(18:10):
traits can go on the Hut River. We already have
no swims over periods of summer, and dogs dying from
elkall bloom, and all of those things for protecting the
Hot River have been completely staffed through those changes that
he's driving through. And so I think it's well and
good to say, use it's going to stop jobs. But
when people start looking in their own backyards and seeing
(18:33):
the standard of water quality of the of the Hut
River suffering in, they'll.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Start I was talking about a gold mine in the
South Island. How did we get to the Hut River?
Tim the overall dock will change the law here? What
are they going to do? How are they going to
change it? How they are not going to make doc
look like idiots. If Shane Jones comes out and says
bomb open it up, well, look.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
You can't have your cake and put it in the
prison free fence too. I mean, this is exactly Here's
here's Jenny's been saying this whole last half out that
we want more jobs, we want more jobs, of it
at the expense. In this case, we can't have jobs
if it brings economic christ. I mean, this is absolutely outrageous.
I understand his frustration because in Livin we are on
the beautiful new expressway we're building. One of the things
(19:20):
we've inherited through the Resource management consent is a predator
free think for some lizards. That's going to cost somewhere
between one and two million dollars defense lizards that already
exists in the wild without defense. But that was the rule.
And this just shows how broken our own may is.
This is why is the government we're so focused on
(19:40):
those planning rules so that we can actually get the
growth we need. You asked at the very start, what's
our plan for growth, to bring opportunities, to bring more jobs,
and I said, it's building quality infrastructure, it's investing in people,
that's investing in projects like this, and yet we have
rules that stop the most sensible things happening. So I
can understand where the frustration's coming for on this. We
need jobs or we want to create growth. And don't
(20:02):
look at why he and tell me that that's an
environmental disaster, because it certainly doesn't look like on to me.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Surely you've got the right man for the job.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
You can do both Nick, you can do both.
Speaker 5 (20:11):
You can grow the government and.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
What and what this government is determined on doing is
completely eroding and milking the natural environment to the point
where it just won't exist anymore. And so you can
grow jobs through things like video game developments, like Jobs
for Nature, there's two good examples of growing jobs that
don't destroy a natural environment. It seems like Shane Jones
and National are hellbent on absolutely destroying New Zealand's natural
(20:38):
environment and it will take until our own backyards are
sealthy and polluted before people start to really realize the
damage that they've done.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
And no one believe that because you cannot bring growth
by paying people to go and do stuff that may
or may not have neither doing like the Jobs for Nature.
That's why we're investing in jobs that actually bring growth.
When you pay someone and Buller to go and Nelson
Tasma to go and help clean up and orchard so
that it can produce fruit can help the business flourish,
that brings great. When you're paying someone to just go
(21:07):
and do a job to give them a cent, that's
just another form of welfare and that isn't what brings
the opportunities that this country needs. We need growth, we
need more jobs, we need more opportunities for families than
our community, and that's why we need to get this
country moving.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Thank goodness, you've got Shane Jones on the job. You'll
make that happen.
Speaker 5 (21:25):
Well, Thank goodness, we've got a Prime Minister and a team.
They're kicking goals for this country.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
There you go, at the expense of people being able
to swim in our rivers, you get sick, Jenny.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
It's at the expense of a few lizens. It's at
the expense of a few lizards that we and if
you've pressed a.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Couple of eroding our actual environment, Okay, all.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Right down south, that's fine, Okay, thank you both very much.
I've got to go to the news headlines now. The
Labour police folks, Jenny Anderson and Nationals O tack e
MP to costly.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
Thank you both very very much.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news Talks There'd be Wellington from nine am week days,
or follow the podcast st on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks d B, focusing in on the issues
that matter Politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings, News Talks b Shine.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Join us for Politics Thursday. This week is Labour's police
spokesperson Jenny Anderson.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Morning Jenny, Good morning, mat How are you.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
I'm great? Thanks yourself?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Not too bad? Yeah, enjoying some time with a kid
to school holiday.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I was going to say, you've got a week off,
so you'd be doing some stuff that you enjoy doing.
That's good and national's o techy in peterem Costley, are
you up in the Kebity Coast?
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Mister Costley?
Speaker 5 (00:51):
Hellocome morning grat three with you. I've snuck away for
a day with with the kids. I'd say it day
to not work, but to be I'm working most of
the time, but it's good to you. You get a
bit of time in the mornings in the evenings with them.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
It's great, good work, good work.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
This is kind of like your down week, isn't it.
I mean, this is the week that everyone calls your
down week of the year.
Speaker 5 (01:13):
A little bit, but it's also a great opportunity to
get out in the community like last week or the
last week and a half. Wheally, I've had so many
community events on it and it's great to make most
of that opportunity where Parliament's not sitting so you can
be really present love as well. I think that's really important.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
All right, let's start quickly with the ocr The Reserve
Bank decided not to move it yesterday. It remains at
three point two five, Tim. This is further show that
the economy is not where you guys really want it
to be right now.
Speaker 5 (01:44):
Oh, I think it shows that the plan is working.
You know, if we were worried, if the Reserve Bank
was worried about recession or inflation, you'd see a change
in that interest rate. I think this is what the
shows is that we're creating the kind of stable economy
that we said we were, that the platform we need
for growth, and so I think we can take a
bit of encouragement from that.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Jinny, I wouldn't be encouraged by it not coming down
further and not go out. It's not they don't have
the confidence, do they.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Well, it shows that there's still a lot of uncertainty
out there, and we know from looking around Wellington, how
local businesses are doing that. It is incredibly tough right
out right now, and what the government could be doing
is help create more jobs and providing cost of living
relief for kiwis. But they're not doing that. They're cutting
pay for pay equity, they're taking jobs out of construction,
(02:35):
and they're failing to provide the support that many families
really need right now when they're struggling.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Tim What is the government's plan to actually get the
economy stable enough or get it going the right way
so that we can actually bring the OCR down again?
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Is there a plan?
Speaker 5 (02:52):
Yeah, of course there's a plan, and I'll give you
the five points of it in just a second. But
just remember that the OCR kicks coming down and down
and down. Right we're historically at a pretty low level.
If you keep coming down the risks you create inflation
and we it's all what inflation does thanks to the
last labor government. It creates huge pressures and challenges with
the cost of living. So our plan is all about
(03:12):
going for growth. That's why we need to make sure
people have got the right skills. It's about investing in
education and training. It's about quality infrastructure like the Resonant
project and the Hutware Prospecious, the MP or the O
Too n L Road where I'm the MP and Hodefeno
a company. It's about making sure we've got the settings right,
the regulation right, that we've got the rules out of
the way. It's about getting investment and from overseas. You
(03:35):
know there are Everything we're doing you'll see is centered
around going for growth and a lot of the topics
you've got bound to talk about today's center on. This's
about how we get this country going for growth. Growth
brings opportunities to families in our region.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Jilly, Does that plan give you confidence?
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Not at all, And so you would have seen in
that Reserve Bank when they came out with it not
not changing that rate. They also stated that they expect
inflation to increase and they see it especially around food
prices and that's where families are really hoting Now butter
was I mean in use today still nine dollars you
know plus for a block of butter. It is unaffordable
(04:14):
for key Wes to pay for their heating bills and
to pay for good food over winter. And that is
not gross, that's unacceptable, and it's the cost of living
crisis that this government has completely failed to deliver on.
Speaker 5 (04:27):
So how do you answer that, Well, I'd love to
hear what the alternative is, because I've seen the Green's
alternative that's about eighty eight billion dollars of tax and
forty four billion dollars of debt that later. Don't have
a plan. Our plan is to go for growth so
that we have more money, we have more opportunities for family.
Jenny made it the point for me, to be honest.
She said, oh, we'll we'rerite a down a station. Well,
(04:47):
if you're worried about inflation, then you don't lower the
interest rates that that makes it work. We saw that
under the last Labor government. So what is Labour's plan?
How are they going to keep a stable economy, stock
prices going up, stop costs going up, but at the
same time bring growth and opportunities for more family And
the answer is that don't have Ginny.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Tim has got a point there.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
We have been waiting for a while for something from
labor and we're not getting anything, are we.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Well there was a great article today, Nick. It was
in MTDMA. It was in the hero about Video. It
was in the video video gaming area and they've seen
a twenty percent growth and jobs in and GDP for
the video gaming. Now, we came in at our last
budget and provided a good opportunity to keep jobs here
in New Zealand and to give people good opportunities to
(05:36):
develop that sector. That's an excellent example of how we
can stimulate the economy and grow jobs and that benefits everybody,
not just the wealthy. Right, let's move on more good
opportunities like what we've done there.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Okay, let's move on to the big debate. This speak's
been about the second phase of the COVID nineteen inquiry.
Chris Hipkins came out and said this.
Speaker 6 (05:58):
Governments don't generally establish a royal commission to look at
political decisions made by their predecessors, so this is somewhat unusual.
I think the terms of reference have been deliberately constructed
to achieve a particular outcome, particularly around providing a platform
for those who have conspiracy theorists views That seems to
have been specifically written into the terms of reference that
(06:19):
they get maximum Entita.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Jinny, is it really fair to claim this inquiry is
designed as a platform for conspiracy theorists?
Speaker 3 (06:28):
It has been unusual to have a second Royal Commission
of Inquiry after we've already had one, and it was
interesting that New Zealand First was excluded from being part
of that, even though they were involved in the decision
making in those early stages. So look, it was a
(06:49):
difficult time for New Zealand, as it was for all
people around the world. But it's important that what we're
doing here is to get good outcomes so we don't
have issues in the future. And I'm not sure that
this inquiry is actually focused.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
But you didn't answer my question. Is it actually fair
for your leader to claim that's designed as a platform
for conspiracy theorists?
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Well, I did address that. I see that it's a
second crack at something that's already happened with specifically excluding
New Zealand First. So it does give an unfaar opportunity,
and it does seem to be going down in areas
where it isn't particularly constructive or helpful.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
Okay, here in.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
New Zealand for a future pandemic.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Tim, I mean, let's think about this. Chris Hopkins did
allege that the terms of reference were designed to keep
decisions made by New Zealand First out of the inquiry.
What is your response to that, because that's a pretty
clear and easy fact to bring out, isn't it.
Speaker 5 (07:45):
Well, Look, he made two points. The first one was
that they shouldn't be looking at political decisions. I think
it needs to be careful here because as he's saying
that the decisions made around I two around lockdowns in
Auckland with political decisions, these are government decisions and we
shouldn't be afraid at looking them. Secondly about the conspiracy theorists, Look,
we should never be afraid in New Zealand Parliament of
(08:06):
hearing the views of all keyweks. And some of them
will be uncomfortable, some of them might be outrageous or
frankly a little bit mad. Some of them will be
actually really hopeful.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Hold on, hold on to me, hold on the answer.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
And you can't know because later have been really strong
on things like regulatory standards bills and treated principal bills,
saying that we should hear from every submitter, and now
they want to cherry pick who they listen to because
they're not comfortable with what the answers.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
But you haven't answered my question as why as New
Zealand first questions being kept out of the inquiry.
Speaker 5 (08:35):
Because well, as I understand it, it's because they are
expanding the time period that was looked at. So in
the last one, as Pipkins themselves said in that interview,
you can't look at things that were already covered, that
covered the initial period in twenty twenty when New Zealand
Firs were in government. Now we're saying, actually we want
to look at issues like MiQ about the second lockdown
(08:55):
Laukland that all took place. The reality is that all
took place when it was the sole labor government, so
naturally that's the period we're looking at.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Okay, Ginny, this inquiry is focused mainly on vaccineates and
the lockdowns. I mean now in retrospect, when you've looked
at it and you've thought about it, we're the vaccine
mandates too tough.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Well, I think you can have twenty twenty vision in hindsight.
What I'm grateful for is that my mum and my dad,
who are both in the seventies and my dad has
had health and lung issues, that they're still with us
right now. And I looked to many other countries around
the world who lost a significant amount of seniors when
(09:36):
COVID hit. So I'm grateful for the fact that I've
still got my parents here and they're able to be
grandparents to my kids. And we're very quick to forget
that so many lives were saved in New Zealand compared
to other countries.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
I'm going to ask you both this question because I
want an answer from both of you, but I'll start
with you.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
Tim.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Should both Chris Sipkins and just zinder Adurned dameer zinder
Adurn front up to the inquiry? Just a simple yes
or no?
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Please?
Speaker 5 (10:02):
I looked that up to them. I'm not going to
make that decision for them.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
But as as a New Zealand, I mean from anybody.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
As a New Zealander, don't you want to see the
two leaders that were running the pandemic actually front to
an inquiry? Just I mean, take the political part out
of it.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
Sure, best season the country been Sure, Well there's.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
A zoom you can do it. By zoom, you can
do it. Ginny, what is your thoughts do you think that?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I mean, just Zinda Arding's come out yesterday and said
that she will front. Chris Hipkins has said he'd always
answer any questions. Do you think it's right that they front.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
I don't know if they've even actually been properly asked
or not, but you know, if they are asked, that's
a decision for them to make. I'm not going to
tell them to appear before a committee. And Chris has
been pretty Chris Hipkins has said that he'll give every
information that's required and be helpful with the inquiry. But
that's a decision for him to make, not for me
(10:58):
to pass.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Coming on, Okay, I'm going to take a short break,
but surely I'll finish before we take this break with this.
Surely everyone that was involved should be fronting up to
the inquiry. If we're going to have an inquiry and
we're going to fix things and we're going to make
things better for the next time, and there will be
you next time, Surely everyone right.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Front of the first time, they're going to try and
front again. That's the point, right, Why are we doing
this again?
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Well it's the second phase, but anyway we can argue.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
About that in another day Minus New Zealand series.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Politics Thursday with Ginny Anderson and Tim Costley. Finance Minister
Nicola Willis has asked the IAD to look at where
the banks are paying their fair share of taxes. Were
some now predicting Nicola might try and introduce a higher
tax rate for banks, but David Seymour has come out
and said he thinks banks do pay their fair share. Ginny,
(11:47):
do banks pay enough tax?
Speaker 3 (11:52):
No, they should pay more. But it's kind of like
Nicola just woke up yesterday morning and realized we need
these giants to be paying proper tax revelation. I mean,
how at a touch can this government be. They've given
tax breaks already to lean more in tobacco companies, but
they're having a bit of a think about the banks
biggest belief.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
To be honest, how would this work? Tom?
Speaker 5 (12:14):
How?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I mean would they have a separate corporate tax increase
for everyone apart from banks or it would be just banks?
Speaker 4 (12:22):
I mean, how is it going to work?
Speaker 5 (12:25):
Here a minute, because I mean, I'm surprised. I thought
you were about to pull up Jenny on that madness
because she's saying that the biggest belief. We're just looking
at the banks now. But they had six years and
they did nothing, and now we're doing a home we're
looking at them. Nicla Willis didn't just wake up and
have a crazy thought yesterday morning. This has worked that
even in the article, if she bobbed to read it,
(12:45):
it said has been going on for months where she
has asked iod to look at a range of tax
settings along with the Revenue Minister to make sure we're
getting it right. And I think they'rey New Zealander would
actually want to think that we're asking these questions. You know,
we've had an inquiry into banking to make sure New
Zealanders are getting a fair opportunity. And actually, I think
(13:06):
this is a really reasonable question to ask. What if
the answer look like to answer your question, Nick, Well,
we don't know yet. That's the whole point of having
a look at this, to check the Sevings a right. Maybe,
like David Semore says, that will come out and say,
actually it's about right, it's pretty balanced right now. Maybe
we'll say we need to look at changing some settings,
but until we do the homework, we're not going to know.
So I don't think it's so outrageous as Jimmy sensory.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Tim's right, you had six years to do something about this.
We every six months we heard of the outrageous profits
banks were making. Someone has to look at it, and
Tim's right, you had the opportunity to look at it.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
What we what we did do is we were working
hard at establishing an ability for small businesses to borrow.
So right now, if you're a small business owner, you
practically need to borgage your house in order to access finance.
So it's really hard for New Zealand's SEMs to access finance.
So that's what we were working on. But I think
(14:06):
when we went further into doing the banking inquiry, that's
fell away because banks then lost the edge of contributing
to a fund that small businesses could benefit from. But
I think there is a real sickness of people are
just getting sick of hearing excuses from this government. I mean,
the weekly shop is not getting cheaper, it's not getting
easier for small business to survive, and bills seem to
(14:29):
keep going up and so just taking a look at
it and having a poke around right now isn't good enough.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
An interesting move from the government announce this morning that
they're offering jobs to people on the jobs he could
benefit to help clean up Nelson Tasman region after the
bad weather. There's six thousand people in job ready fit
and ready to work down there. They want to offer
them six hundred sorry that they want to offer work
to Ginny. Is this basically working for the Dolan Do
(14:57):
you like it?
Speaker 3 (14:59):
They were I think deployed in Wide Wor in the
cleanup in twenty twenty three and also in Nelson, Tasman
and twenty twenty two. So it's a kind of enhanced
task force Green. So local councils really benefit from working
with Working inncome to make arrangements so that people can
assess with clean up projects.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Do you like the idea?
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Well, if people want to do it, man, it's helping
the community. It seems like, Yeah, it's a good idea
to do. It's been done before and if it works
well in a community, it gives people good skills to
be able to pack up and take on for permanent employment.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
I agree with you, Tim Costley. This could go further,
couldn't it. Why don't we have something like this from
some set up like this in every community?
Speaker 5 (15:43):
I love this is a great thing. You know, people
in Jenny's language want Joss, Well, we're creating jobs, so
this is a great way to get people out there working,
give them some skills given something on their CV and
in the meantime any other than wage forty hours a week.
I think there are more opportunities. You know, there are
a range of roles that we have to still get
people in from overseas to fill. It was great when
(16:07):
can we step up and make the most of opportunities.
Last week I was in Living hosting our Social Development
Minisola is Upston talking about exactly this, working with local council,
local employers and MSD to go how do we connect
more employers than to employing people that are on that
job they can benefit looking for work and how to
encourage people that are on that to take the opportunity
(16:28):
so just quickly. We are very focused on quickly.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Tim you think that we'll go further.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
I think that the enhanced Paskal screen is used in
settings like this, like Cyclone Gabriel, like the Bull of Flods.
I think it's a great thing to use in these situations.
I think the work that we're doing as a government
to encourage people that can work and to work will
continue to go further.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
Okay, Resource Minister.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Jos sorry, I just want to add on that that
what we did when we're in government was Jobs for Nature,
which was getting people into conservation, so planting around the
Heart River for example, to flood protection, all of that work.
That was an excellent way of getting people into work
and jobs we need. That's all largely been cut by
this government. And also the cuts to the Department of
(17:11):
Conservation has lost many of those opportunities. So there were
good opportunities for job creation under Jobs for Nature. That's
all been kenned.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
All right, let me move on to Resources. Minister Shane
Jones is not happy with doc They have declined an
application to extend an Otaga gold mine because the mining
company didn't have a proper lizard lizard management plan. Now
there's seven hundred jobs at risk according to the mining
company Ginny. Surely seven hundred million dollars worth a turnover
(17:43):
as well. Money and jobs are more important than lizards.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Well yes, But Shane Jones is a very short term
thinker when long term thinking is needed for New Zealand.
In this government just continues to recycle the same old
ideas of exploiting the environment and it's going to sell
us down the river in the long run. I mean
Chris Bushop and the Heartbell in his own backyard has
changed all the fresh water standards, so now more night
(18:10):
traits can go on the Hut River. We already have
no swims over periods of summer, and dogs dying from
elkall bloom, and all of those things for protecting the
Hot River have been completely staffed through those changes that
he's driving through. And so I think it's well and
good to say, use it's going to stop jobs. But
when people start looking in their own backyards and seeing
(18:33):
the standard of water quality of the of the Hut
River suffering in, they'll.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Start I was talking about a gold mine in the
South Island. How did we get to the Hut River?
Tim the overall dock will change the law here? What
are they going to do? How are they going to
change it? How they are not going to make doc
look like idiots. If Shane Jones comes out and says
bomb open it up, well, look.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
You can't have your cake and put it in the
prison free fence too. I mean, this is exactly Here's
here's Jenny's been saying this whole last half out that
we want more jobs, we want more jobs, of it
at the expense. In this case, we can't have jobs
if it brings economic christ. I mean, this is absolutely outrageous.
I understand his frustration because in Livin we are on
the beautiful new expressway we're building. One of the things
(19:20):
we've inherited through the Resource management consent is a predator
free think for some lizards. That's going to cost somewhere
between one and two million dollars defense lizards that already
exists in the wild without defense. But that was the rule.
And this just shows how broken our own may is.
This is why is the government we're so focused on
(19:40):
those planning rules so that we can actually get the
growth we need. You asked at the very start, what's
our plan for growth, to bring opportunities, to bring more jobs,
and I said, it's building quality infrastructure, it's investing in people,
that's investing in projects like this, and yet we have
rules that stop the most sensible things happening. So I
can understand where the frustration's coming for on this. We
need jobs or we want to create growth. And don't
(20:02):
look at why he and tell me that that's an
environmental disaster, because it certainly doesn't look like on to me.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Surely you've got the right man for the job.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
You can do both Nick, you can do both.
Speaker 5 (20:11):
You can grow the government and.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
What and what this government is determined on doing is
completely eroding and milking the natural environment to the point
where it just won't exist anymore. And so you can
grow jobs through things like video game developments, like Jobs
for Nature, there's two good examples of growing jobs that
don't destroy a natural environment. It seems like Shane Jones
and National are hellbent on absolutely destroying New Zealand's natural
(20:38):
environment and it will take until our own backyards are
sealthy and polluted before people start to really realize the
damage that they've done.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
And no one believe that because you cannot bring growth
by paying people to go and do stuff that may
or may not have neither doing like the Jobs for Nature.
That's why we're investing in jobs that actually bring growth.
When you pay someone and Buller to go and Nelson
Tasma to go and help clean up and orchard so
that it can produce fruit can help the business flourish,
that brings great. When you're paying someone to just go
(21:07):
and do a job to give them a cent, that's
just another form of welfare and that isn't what brings
the opportunities that this country needs. We need growth, we
need more jobs, we need more opportunities for families than
our community, and that's why we need to get this
country moving.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Thank goodness, you've got Shane Jones on the job. You'll
make that happen.
Speaker 5 (21:25):
Well, Thank goodness, we've got a Prime Minister and a team.
They're kicking goals for this country.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
There you go, at the expense of people being able
to swim in our rivers, you get sick, Jenny.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
It's at the expense of a few lizens. It's at
the expense of a few lizards that we and if
you've pressed a.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Couple of eroding our actual environment, Okay, all.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Right down south, that's fine, Okay, thank you both very much.
I've got to go to the news headlines now. The
Labour police folks, Jenny Anderson and Nationals O tack e
MP to costly.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
Thank you both very very much.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news Talks There'd be Wellington from nine am week days,
or follow the podcast st on iHeartRadio.
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