July 16, 2025 • 19 mins
On Politics Thursday, National's Otaki MP and Labour Wellington Issues spokesperson Ayesha Verrall debate the revelation the Retail Crime Advisory Group cost 500-thousand dollars in just 102 days.
They also discussed the continuing controversy around the Wellington Mayoral race, and whether Christopher Luxon's comments this week about Wellington were fair.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said B.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Joining us for politics Thursday. This week is Labour's Health
and Wellington's Issue spokesperson Aisha ver All in the studio. Morning.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
I Sha, morning Neck.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
It's been a while.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Yeah, it has been from here.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I mean, you know, everyone just starts coming on the
show and then they just leave me.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
It was a recess. I think you had one of
my other colleagues on during that period. I was hard
at work elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Okay, nice to have you on a nice day and
National's O TACKI MP coming to us live from the beehive.
Good morning, Tim, Good morning, third week in a row.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
I haven't left you.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Yet, Nick, No, that's right. Probably next week, thank you, definitely,
But you're not in the studio. I like it when
you and Ice you're in the studio.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
That's great, it's great. But look working hard on select
committees today. So I've just shipped down a select committee
to have a chat with you and then I'll be back. Okay.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
My message to the National Party whips is free Tim Costly,
let him come to the studio. We want to see
him here.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Okay, right, Let's start with the story that's on everybody's mind.
It is the big story in Wellington at the moment.
Ray Chung and his I'm going to say sordid email
to some council colleagues two years ago where he discussed
the rumor about Tori Finer. Now I'm not going to
get into any details because I'm past that. I don't
want to bring them up or anything. All right, Sha,
(01:31):
How does this sort of behavior reflect on us as
a city in Wellington?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Well it reflects incredibly badly on Rachel. Let's be clear,
that's number one. He shouldn't have done it. It shows
poor character to have done it, and it shows bad
judgment to have done it as well. I don't think
this reflects on Wellington. Perhaps it does reflect the crumbling
of the sensible center right, the fact that this chap
(01:59):
has made it onto the city's right right wing ticket.
And that's a shame because while I'm of the left,
I want to see the right putting up sensible people
because ultimately on a council everyone has to work together.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
It's not really that he's on the ticket. He is
the ticket, isn't he. I mean, let's be fair, all
the posters are about him. They're he's not just like
someone standing for council. He's running for mayor, and it's
almost like it's his team.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Look, it's a joke. The idea. What does independent together
even mean?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I mean that they are individually got their own opinions,
but the group being brought together as a group to
stand and fight as a group.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Well, in that case, why did one of the members
of that group then have to leave if they were
independent together now to be more independent? None of it
makes sense. It's total mess, and unfortunately it'll be to
the detriment of the city if any of these people
get elected.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Tim, I'm going to ask you a pretty simple question.
Let's make it really simple. Do you think that Ray
Chung's right or fit for the job?
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Well, I think every Valentonian's gonna make their own decision
on that, and on every candidate that's putting the name forward. Look,
the email, I've only seen what's in the paper, right
because I live up on the coast where we're a
little bit more sensible up there. Maybe, but as a
bizarre email. And then of course it's you know, it's
suddenly popped up two years later and you can. You
can pick why everyone that puts their name forward for
(03:24):
for a council for election will be judged by those
that are that are voting, and and every Wellingtonian will
do this. But but I think what the city needs
is some is some strong, sensible leadership that's actually going
to get focused on the basics on doing them really well,
not sort of pet projects that have gone nowhere, whether
(03:44):
that's you know, by Clanes or get Well into Moving
or whatever it's been. We actually need people that are
going to be focused on progress, on keeping rates down
and delivering the stuff that Wellingtonians need.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Tim The problem that I have with this whole story, debarcle,
call it what you want. Does it put off and
I'm asking you this, yeah, because I believe it does.
Does it put off good st candidates from standing thinking
I don't want to be any in any involved in
that sort of mess.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Oh look, there are some great people out there that
I'm sure are thinking, Look, I can just get on
and go and get stuck into private business or working
as a civil servant or whatever they might be doing
and avoid all of this. Someone was asking me, yes,
say why don't I just go and fly helicopters and
twice as much money and have a quiet life. And
on paper that sounds good, but you actually we rely
on good people putting their hand up saying actually, I'm
(04:35):
willing to serve my community and give up what I
could have had or what I might have had, so
that we can have a better community to live in.
And that's what motivates me.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Very good question I should does it actually put off
you know you're talking you're Wellington's person for Wellington from
labor it doesn't put off good people standing.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I imagine it does, and when I speak to people
who are considering standing, I always reiterate the fact that
there's real there's upsides to a career in politics. You've
got fantastic access to your community. As a member of Parliament,
I can go and be welcomed anywhere in the country.
(05:13):
It's tremendously fulfilling to serve your community. And you know,
these sorts of attacks need to be condemned so that
people feel a career in politics is worth it.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Right, Let's stay on local government. The government has introduced
legislation requiring councils to focus on course services and be
more transparent. Are you Are you sure that this is
going to work? Can this be begaud can this? Can
this work so that the councils believe they're still in
control of what they're doing their own destiny.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
Yes, Oh you want a bigger answer.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yes or no?
Speaker 4 (05:48):
I want an answer, well, well as it can work
and absolutely and it needs to work right. Look, I
could give you examples from around Wellington, but I think
of the ones from up in the Kapiti coast. The
new bus shelter or bus park at the railway station
costs two million dollars, took two years to build, It's
got a garden on the roof. Right, That's not what
people want. They want cheaper rates, they want the roads
to get patched up, they want the pipes to be working,
(06:12):
and that's what we want to see councils focused on.
And look government has a role to play in that,
and I think the Minister was very clear on what
he said that yes, we want councils to focus on
the on the basics and getting back to what ratepayers
expect and we need to deliver, which we are doing
and have been doing big things like planning legislation that
(06:32):
Arima to enable councils to go for growth, to get
housing moving, to put in the infrastructure that's needed to
enable growth. That's the fundamental job that that that we
think we have and councils have, and that's what people
expect of us.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I should do you like the idea of the local
government central government be able to sort of, I don't know,
keep an eye on local government. And so now that
you're spending that wrong, you're doing this wrong.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Do you like the idea of that central government needs
to set the rules of the road. But ultimately, local
councils are elected by their local community to do a job.
And I find this deeply hypocritical that the National Party
before the election was talking about devolution and local community
(07:17):
voice and now after the election, all they're doing is
restricting what councils can do. Now, I understand that Tim
is from the right side of politics, and in Wellington,
in Wellington City our council, our people were voted for
a council from the left side. So trying to use
central government's lawmaking powers is a big stick to stop
(07:40):
councils and communities disagreeing with the National Party seems to
me to be a big overreach, Tim, But.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
I guess well, look, the only thing I'd ask is, look,
I accept last election, they voted for who they voted for,
and we'll see what happens this time. But I'm not
sure that what people were voting for. Was it a
council that would spend more than two million dollars on
public toilets. It's those kind of projects that erode the
confidence in local government and that's why we want to
(08:07):
see all levels of government focused on doing the basics brilliantly,
on nailing the things that are therefore keeping costs down
and delivering course services.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Tim, how are you going to how are you going
to control that? Tell us? How are you going to
watch that? How are you going to control that?
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Well?
Speaker 4 (08:23):
I think firstly, you've, you know, if you've got to
have clear expectations, and I think you know, we've seen
real clarity from Minister Local Government, from the Minister of Infrastructure,
from the Prime Minister in terms of what the expectations are,
and that's got to be one of the first part
of this of this conversation is about saying this is
what our expectation is, because I think that's the expectation
(08:45):
that every well Antonio and every person in this region has.
And then look, the full legislation is going to come
to Parliament this year, so I'm not going to jump ahead.
It's not my place to announce that, but I think
the feedback I'm hearing as we're focused on absolutely the
right areas. This is what rate pays one and there
is literally not a day in the lecture that goes
(09:06):
part without someone asking me about how much their rates
have gone up and the amount they're forecast to go
up over the next couple of years. This is a
big issue. Cost of living is number one issue for me.
It's a number one issue for our government. And if
we're not willing to stand up and do about something
about it, then then who would I show?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
He's got a point. He has got a point. And
you're a rate payer in Wellington. People are very, very
concerned about their rates. Do you believe with an open
mind that government can control that in any form or
any way.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Look, this is political positioning because the National Party knows
that under Luxen, the cost of living crisis is getting worse,
not better. They know it's National's fault and labor is
the only option to stop this. And so.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Absolutely it was always with a straight face.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
You have absolutely made the cost of living crisis worse.
People are feeling it, they're leaving the country, and that
is why this performance of pecking on elected members as
if that's going to solve the cost of a living
crisis is going on.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Well, I mean, I think we have to come back
to that because because the bit I just correct about
is that that cost of living is number one. It
absolutely is, like I said before, but look at where
that came from. Look at where that that grew from.
It was from the inflation under the last government. And yes,
we have stopped inflation. We've got interest rates coming down,
we've got housing costs coming down. But when you get
(10:34):
inflation down, it stops the prices going up, but it
doesn't miraculously bring them down.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Right.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
The reality is they're not gonna you know, your grocery
bill isn't going to have now. Even though we've done
everything we could that it's is massive that we have
stopped that sort of seven percent figure of inflation that
was absolutely crippling people. But this is why we have
to accompany that work with our plan to go for growth,
to grow economy, to lift wages so that people have
a bit more money at the end of the week.
(10:59):
And if labor really believe in that, I'd love them
to turn around now and say, actually, we will support
tax cuts because that physically gave people more money in
the hand at the end of the week. We will
support family boost because that will give families more money
at the end of the week. There are some things
they could come and support right now and say these
are good things.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
When the Prime Minister was talking about this new legislation yesterday,
the day before, he once again put the boot into Wellington.
He criticized that the Keener Conference Center, saying that there
was a lack of events in Wellington, pointing to a
race car a car race that we had here thirty
years ago than this, and five hundred mobile this and
(11:38):
mobile five hundred thirty years ago. He said, I mean,
tell me, why does the Prime Minister have to put
the boot into Wellington? Why does he have to always
signal us out of something's going wrong.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Yeah, I don't know if I describe it putting the
boot in. I think the awkward and uncomfortable thing for
some of us is that he's telling the truth. He's
saying things that I hear every day. When you know
I mentioned before two point three million on on a
couple of new toilets on Courtney Place. Let's get well
into moving obviously, the new to keen of the new
(12:13):
conference center.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Have you been Have you been to t key?
Speaker 4 (12:17):
No, I haven't.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
But beautiful and it's I'm proud as a Well and
Tonian to have it here.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Oh look at it. Look from what I hear, it
is beautiful, but it's making a lost is Not only
did it cost you a huge amount for ratepayers to
build it, it then costs them every day because it
can't turn a profit. And rate payers every day, as
we were talking about just before, want to be able
to meet the cost of living and that's a luxury
that maybe we've got to make some tough decisions right now. Look,
(12:43):
we'd love as a government to be able to throw
money at everything. They tried that for six years before
we came into government. It doesn't work. You actually have
to make some really tough decisions and that's what we're
expecting from our councils. The Prime Minister, I think was
clear on that and I don't think he's wrong.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
It's still sticking the boot into us.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Yeah, it doesn't look it may not feel good because
it's our town and we like to take proud in
our region. I love to get out and support the
canes and the phoenix and the firebirds. But he's not wrong,
is he?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
He doesn't But he doesn't help us. I mean, Prime
Minister Aisher should be saying, gosh, you know this, Wellington's
made these mistakes. Let's put our arms around them and
try and fix it.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Yet another sign of Christopher Luxen's week leadership is the
fact that he needs to find scapegoats all the time,
and Wellington City Council has become the Prime Minister's scapegoat.
This is because National is making the Wellington economy worse,
not better. They are responsible for thousands of job cuts
(13:41):
throughout throughout Wellington. And if they're so concerned about the
convention center, then there are options the government could take
in terms of driving local international conferences and so on.
But just putting the boot in is not the behavior
we expect of leaders and the idea to pick on
(14:03):
a city that does tend to vote progressive so that
you can show the rest of the country how tough
you are as a sign of how weak and desperate
Christopher Luxen is.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Tim dear Reckon, it's because we've got a strong Green
Labor voted Wellington that he actually puts a boot it.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
No, I think it's because you've got a strong Green
Labor council that you do dumb stuff. I think that's
the reason, and therefore naturally maybe it attracts a bit
more attention. But you know, you can't tell me that
you sit here and think that all those bike clans
are a great idea that get will into moving delivered success.
There's your happy rate payers spent on public toilets. I mean,
(14:39):
this is that right, But this is what people think.
It's more of the same because everyone.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
When I was a minister, I never felt the need
to go around the country picking on other elected officials
who I might have had a problem with what they
were doing in order to make myself look strong. And
your government does it every single day cause your week.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Well, I don't agree, but that the issue here is
that when you have people Mum and Dad walking down
the streets saying the cost living as tough, my rates
are too high and accounts are going well, we can't
we can't go any lower it results in the antswer going.
We yes, you can.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Here are some areas, ah interesting that you know you
keep spending. We just did an hour Tim on the
show about the criminal Advisory Group. I mean, you know
you want to spend one point eight million dollars there
and you actually want to cut costs and make things right.
But anyway, let's move to education area.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
That's because there's two point four billion dollars a year
being lost in retail crime. And if we can save
two point four billion by spending one point eight million,
I'm okay for it.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Well, are you okay with an advisory group that's going
to cost two million dollars that has not done any
work because what it is suggesting in terms of its
recommendations are all advice that was already delivered to the
labor government for free.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
And what did the labor government do with that Nothing.
It's one thing to come up with the idea and
have it shot down by Jenny Anderson in the Labor government,
but actually it's a very different thing to then take
that to the point that it is oven ready legislation,
ready to go through. And that's absolutely what they're focused
on and has done.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Tim This is a case of highway robbery. The idea
that that as an advisory group can basically rehash its
old ideas and get paid two million dollars. That is
as ridiculous as the toilet's on Courtney place you were
just talking about.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
No One, she's got a point. She doesn't she does
have a point paying those advisors, Like, what is it
nine hundred and thirty dollars a day? I mean, give
me a reckon, I'll be your advisor.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
Well, well maybe I will. No, I'm not going to
look The cabinet manuals very clear about what the rules
for it follows the standard framework. This is no different
to the almost three hundred working groups they set up
in the first year.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
You hated that three hundred of them.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Absolutely, But when you've got two point four million dollars
walking out the door every year, am I okay? With
spending less about half of one percent of their amount
to save order?
Speaker 3 (17:01):
How much is this size arrest going to save of
that money? How much as.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
And this is it? And this is what we hear
from labor. They are happy to sit back and say, well,
we're just not going to do anything. They did that
they try that crime was out of control. We all
know what it was like with ram raids, with retail crimes,
with dari Ow and his trapped behind a cage in
their own shop. I see it in my.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Electric citizens going to help, that is.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
It, absolutely And yet here we are Aishaverel was saying
we should do nothing, just don't do anything, just hope
that it can be And that is not the answer.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
I am saying two million dollars for an advisory group
that has delivered nothing. Don't cite the Cabinet free fees framework.
The fees are for doing work and no.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
Work, and they are doing work having an idea of
saying let's stop shoplifting. It's very different to having legislation
that has been tested, ready and is ready to go
through a part of the parliamentary process. There is a
huge amount of work and I think Aisha, as a
former minister, would know that.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Jim, tell us what you think Sonny Kirschel has done
for us.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
Well, he has led a team that is and look,
I don't work with him, right and I'm not on
the Justice Select Committee, but I have heard from the
Minister that he's very happy with what they what they
have done. They have got legislation to the point that
it is ready to go through the House that have
developed a bunch of ideas so that we can take it.
And if you look at the crime stats, crime is
(18:22):
turning around under this government. Our approach is absolutely working.
Even the things that label were Adaman wouldn't work like
a gang patch band. They've now turned around and said, well,
maybe okay, we got that wrong, but this is the
point we have to go and do stuff. We cannot
sit back and just hope it gets it gets better.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
There are you know, Sonny Kochal did not draft that
legislation that was drafted by the Parliamentary Council Office. What
he did was present a list of ideas that he
has been shopping around for ages. And you are paying
him two million dollars a day to rehash his old
two hundred million dollars two million dollars to rehash his
old ideas. It has not got value for money. It
(19:01):
is as bad as spending as the toilets and Courtney
place that you ridicule.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
And he offered that my us for free before and
it got and it just got that I'm throwing out
the door of the behind.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
We're not arguing about where the labor did anything about it,
but he gave the same advice for free. Now you're
spending money anyway. We've got to go. You guys have
got to go. I know you're both very busy. Tim,
you've got to get back to work. O TACKI, MP,
Tim Costley and Iceaviril, Wellington's issues and health spokesman for Labor.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd Be Wellington from nine to am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said B.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Joining us for politics Thursday. This week is Labour's Health
and Wellington's Issue spokesperson Aisha ver All in the studio. Morning.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
I Sha, morning Neck.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
It's been a while.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Yeah, it has been from here.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I mean, you know, everyone just starts coming on the
show and then they just leave me.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
It was a recess. I think you had one of
my other colleagues on during that period. I was hard
at work elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Okay, nice to have you on a nice day and
National's O TACKI MP coming to us live from the beehive.
Good morning, Tim, Good morning, third week in a row.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
I haven't left you.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Yet, Nick, No, that's right. Probably next week, thank you, definitely,
But you're not in the studio. I like it when
you and Ice you're in the studio.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
That's great, it's great. But look working hard on select
committees today. So I've just shipped down a select committee
to have a chat with you and then I'll be back. Okay.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
My message to the National Party whips is free Tim Costly,
let him come to the studio. We want to see
him here.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Okay, right, Let's start with the story that's on everybody's mind.
It is the big story in Wellington at the moment.
Ray Chung and his I'm going to say sordid email
to some council colleagues two years ago where he discussed
the rumor about Tori Finer. Now I'm not going to
get into any details because I'm past that. I don't
want to bring them up or anything. All right, Sha,
(01:31):
How does this sort of behavior reflect on us as
a city in Wellington?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Well it reflects incredibly badly on Rachel. Let's be clear,
that's number one. He shouldn't have done it. It shows
poor character to have done it, and it shows bad
judgment to have done it as well. I don't think
this reflects on Wellington. Perhaps it does reflect the crumbling
of the sensible center right, the fact that this chap
(01:59):
has made it onto the city's right right wing ticket.
And that's a shame because while I'm of the left,
I want to see the right putting up sensible people
because ultimately on a council everyone has to work together.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
It's not really that he's on the ticket. He is
the ticket, isn't he. I mean, let's be fair, all
the posters are about him. They're he's not just like
someone standing for council. He's running for mayor, and it's
almost like it's his team.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Look, it's a joke. The idea. What does independent together
even mean?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I mean that they are individually got their own opinions,
but the group being brought together as a group to
stand and fight as a group.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Well, in that case, why did one of the members
of that group then have to leave if they were
independent together now to be more independent? None of it
makes sense. It's total mess, and unfortunately it'll be to
the detriment of the city if any of these people
get elected.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Tim, I'm going to ask you a pretty simple question.
Let's make it really simple. Do you think that Ray
Chung's right or fit for the job?
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Well, I think every Valentonian's gonna make their own decision
on that, and on every candidate that's putting the name forward. Look,
the email, I've only seen what's in the paper, right
because I live up on the coast where we're a
little bit more sensible up there. Maybe, but as a
bizarre email. And then of course it's you know, it's
suddenly popped up two years later and you can. You
can pick why everyone that puts their name forward for
(03:24):
for a council for election will be judged by those
that are that are voting, and and every Wellingtonian will
do this. But but I think what the city needs
is some is some strong, sensible leadership that's actually going
to get focused on the basics on doing them really well,
not sort of pet projects that have gone nowhere, whether
(03:44):
that's you know, by Clanes or get Well into Moving
or whatever it's been. We actually need people that are
going to be focused on progress, on keeping rates down
and delivering the stuff that Wellingtonians need.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Tim The problem that I have with this whole story, debarcle,
call it what you want. Does it put off and
I'm asking you this, yeah, because I believe it does.
Does it put off good st candidates from standing thinking
I don't want to be any in any involved in
that sort of mess.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Oh look, there are some great people out there that
I'm sure are thinking, Look, I can just get on
and go and get stuck into private business or working
as a civil servant or whatever they might be doing
and avoid all of this. Someone was asking me, yes,
say why don't I just go and fly helicopters and
twice as much money and have a quiet life. And
on paper that sounds good, but you actually we rely
on good people putting their hand up saying actually, I'm
(04:35):
willing to serve my community and give up what I
could have had or what I might have had, so
that we can have a better community to live in.
And that's what motivates me.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Very good question I should does it actually put off
you know you're talking you're Wellington's person for Wellington from
labor it doesn't put off good people standing.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I imagine it does, and when I speak to people
who are considering standing, I always reiterate the fact that
there's real there's upsides to a career in politics. You've
got fantastic access to your community. As a member of Parliament,
I can go and be welcomed anywhere in the country.
(05:13):
It's tremendously fulfilling to serve your community. And you know,
these sorts of attacks need to be condemned so that
people feel a career in politics is worth it.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Right, Let's stay on local government. The government has introduced
legislation requiring councils to focus on course services and be
more transparent. Are you Are you sure that this is
going to work? Can this be begaud can this? Can
this work so that the councils believe they're still in
control of what they're doing their own destiny.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
Yes, Oh you want a bigger answer.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yes or no?
Speaker 4 (05:48):
I want an answer, well, well as it can work
and absolutely and it needs to work right. Look, I
could give you examples from around Wellington, but I think
of the ones from up in the Kapiti coast. The
new bus shelter or bus park at the railway station
costs two million dollars, took two years to build, It's
got a garden on the roof. Right, That's not what
people want. They want cheaper rates, they want the roads
to get patched up, they want the pipes to be working,
(06:12):
and that's what we want to see councils focused on.
And look government has a role to play in that,
and I think the Minister was very clear on what
he said that yes, we want councils to focus on
the on the basics and getting back to what ratepayers
expect and we need to deliver, which we are doing
and have been doing big things like planning legislation that
(06:32):
Arima to enable councils to go for growth, to get
housing moving, to put in the infrastructure that's needed to
enable growth. That's the fundamental job that that that we
think we have and councils have, and that's what people
expect of us.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I should do you like the idea of the local
government central government be able to sort of, I don't know,
keep an eye on local government. And so now that
you're spending that wrong, you're doing this wrong.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Do you like the idea of that central government needs
to set the rules of the road. But ultimately, local
councils are elected by their local community to do a job.
And I find this deeply hypocritical that the National Party
before the election was talking about devolution and local community
(07:17):
voice and now after the election, all they're doing is
restricting what councils can do. Now, I understand that Tim
is from the right side of politics, and in Wellington,
in Wellington City our council, our people were voted for
a council from the left side. So trying to use
central government's lawmaking powers is a big stick to stop
(07:40):
councils and communities disagreeing with the National Party seems to
me to be a big overreach, Tim, But.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
I guess well, look, the only thing I'd ask is, look,
I accept last election, they voted for who they voted for,
and we'll see what happens this time. But I'm not
sure that what people were voting for. Was it a
council that would spend more than two million dollars on
public toilets. It's those kind of projects that erode the
confidence in local government and that's why we want to
(08:07):
see all levels of government focused on doing the basics brilliantly,
on nailing the things that are therefore keeping costs down
and delivering course services.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Tim, how are you going to how are you going
to control that? Tell us? How are you going to
watch that? How are you going to control that?
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Well?
Speaker 4 (08:23):
I think firstly, you've, you know, if you've got to
have clear expectations, and I think you know, we've seen
real clarity from Minister Local Government, from the Minister of Infrastructure,
from the Prime Minister in terms of what the expectations are,
and that's got to be one of the first part
of this of this conversation is about saying this is
what our expectation is, because I think that's the expectation
(08:45):
that every well Antonio and every person in this region has.
And then look, the full legislation is going to come
to Parliament this year, so I'm not going to jump ahead.
It's not my place to announce that, but I think
the feedback I'm hearing as we're focused on absolutely the
right areas. This is what rate pays one and there
is literally not a day in the lecture that goes
(09:06):
part without someone asking me about how much their rates
have gone up and the amount they're forecast to go
up over the next couple of years. This is a
big issue. Cost of living is number one issue for me.
It's a number one issue for our government. And if
we're not willing to stand up and do about something
about it, then then who would I show?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
He's got a point. He has got a point. And
you're a rate payer in Wellington. People are very, very
concerned about their rates. Do you believe with an open
mind that government can control that in any form or
any way.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Look, this is political positioning because the National Party knows
that under Luxen, the cost of living crisis is getting worse,
not better. They know it's National's fault and labor is
the only option to stop this. And so.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Absolutely it was always with a straight face.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
You have absolutely made the cost of living crisis worse.
People are feeling it, they're leaving the country, and that
is why this performance of pecking on elected members as
if that's going to solve the cost of a living
crisis is going on.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Well, I mean, I think we have to come back
to that because because the bit I just correct about
is that that cost of living is number one. It
absolutely is, like I said before, but look at where
that came from. Look at where that that grew from.
It was from the inflation under the last government. And yes,
we have stopped inflation. We've got interest rates coming down,
we've got housing costs coming down. But when you get
(10:34):
inflation down, it stops the prices going up, but it
doesn't miraculously bring them down.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Right.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
The reality is they're not gonna you know, your grocery
bill isn't going to have now. Even though we've done
everything we could that it's is massive that we have
stopped that sort of seven percent figure of inflation that
was absolutely crippling people. But this is why we have
to accompany that work with our plan to go for growth,
to grow economy, to lift wages so that people have
a bit more money at the end of the week.
(10:59):
And if labor really believe in that, I'd love them
to turn around now and say, actually, we will support
tax cuts because that physically gave people more money in
the hand at the end of the week. We will
support family boost because that will give families more money
at the end of the week. There are some things
they could come and support right now and say these
are good things.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
When the Prime Minister was talking about this new legislation yesterday,
the day before, he once again put the boot into Wellington.
He criticized that the Keener Conference Center, saying that there
was a lack of events in Wellington, pointing to a
race car a car race that we had here thirty
years ago than this, and five hundred mobile this and
(11:38):
mobile five hundred thirty years ago. He said, I mean,
tell me, why does the Prime Minister have to put
the boot into Wellington? Why does he have to always
signal us out of something's going wrong.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Yeah, I don't know if I describe it putting the
boot in. I think the awkward and uncomfortable thing for
some of us is that he's telling the truth. He's
saying things that I hear every day. When you know
I mentioned before two point three million on on a
couple of new toilets on Courtney Place. Let's get well
into moving obviously, the new to keen of the new
(12:13):
conference center.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Have you been Have you been to t key?
Speaker 4 (12:17):
No, I haven't.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
But beautiful and it's I'm proud as a Well and
Tonian to have it here.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Oh look at it. Look from what I hear, it
is beautiful, but it's making a lost is Not only
did it cost you a huge amount for ratepayers to
build it, it then costs them every day because it
can't turn a profit. And rate payers every day, as
we were talking about just before, want to be able
to meet the cost of living and that's a luxury
that maybe we've got to make some tough decisions right now. Look,
(12:43):
we'd love as a government to be able to throw
money at everything. They tried that for six years before
we came into government. It doesn't work. You actually have
to make some really tough decisions and that's what we're
expecting from our councils. The Prime Minister, I think was
clear on that and I don't think he's wrong.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
It's still sticking the boot into us.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Yeah, it doesn't look it may not feel good because
it's our town and we like to take proud in
our region. I love to get out and support the
canes and the phoenix and the firebirds. But he's not wrong,
is he?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
He doesn't But he doesn't help us. I mean, Prime
Minister Aisher should be saying, gosh, you know this, Wellington's
made these mistakes. Let's put our arms around them and
try and fix it.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Yet another sign of Christopher Luxen's week leadership is the
fact that he needs to find scapegoats all the time,
and Wellington City Council has become the Prime Minister's scapegoat.
This is because National is making the Wellington economy worse,
not better. They are responsible for thousands of job cuts
(13:41):
throughout throughout Wellington. And if they're so concerned about the
convention center, then there are options the government could take
in terms of driving local international conferences and so on.
But just putting the boot in is not the behavior
we expect of leaders and the idea to pick on
(14:03):
a city that does tend to vote progressive so that
you can show the rest of the country how tough
you are as a sign of how weak and desperate
Christopher Luxen is.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Tim dear Reckon, it's because we've got a strong Green
Labor voted Wellington that he actually puts a boot it.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
No, I think it's because you've got a strong Green
Labor council that you do dumb stuff. I think that's
the reason, and therefore naturally maybe it attracts a bit
more attention. But you know, you can't tell me that
you sit here and think that all those bike clans
are a great idea that get will into moving delivered success.
There's your happy rate payers spent on public toilets. I mean,
(14:39):
this is that right, But this is what people think.
It's more of the same because everyone.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
When I was a minister, I never felt the need
to go around the country picking on other elected officials
who I might have had a problem with what they
were doing in order to make myself look strong. And
your government does it every single day cause your week.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Well, I don't agree, but that the issue here is
that when you have people Mum and Dad walking down
the streets saying the cost living as tough, my rates
are too high and accounts are going well, we can't
we can't go any lower it results in the antswer going.
We yes, you can.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Here are some areas, ah interesting that you know you
keep spending. We just did an hour Tim on the
show about the criminal Advisory Group. I mean, you know
you want to spend one point eight million dollars there
and you actually want to cut costs and make things right.
But anyway, let's move to education area.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
That's because there's two point four billion dollars a year
being lost in retail crime. And if we can save
two point four billion by spending one point eight million,
I'm okay for it.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Well, are you okay with an advisory group that's going
to cost two million dollars that has not done any
work because what it is suggesting in terms of its
recommendations are all advice that was already delivered to the
labor government for free.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
And what did the labor government do with that Nothing.
It's one thing to come up with the idea and
have it shot down by Jenny Anderson in the Labor government,
but actually it's a very different thing to then take
that to the point that it is oven ready legislation,
ready to go through. And that's absolutely what they're focused
on and has done.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Tim This is a case of highway robbery. The idea
that that as an advisory group can basically rehash its
old ideas and get paid two million dollars. That is
as ridiculous as the toilet's on Courtney place you were
just talking about.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
No One, she's got a point. She doesn't she does
have a point paying those advisors, Like, what is it
nine hundred and thirty dollars a day? I mean, give
me a reckon, I'll be your advisor.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
Well, well maybe I will. No, I'm not going to
look The cabinet manuals very clear about what the rules
for it follows the standard framework. This is no different
to the almost three hundred working groups they set up
in the first year.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
You hated that three hundred of them.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Absolutely, But when you've got two point four million dollars
walking out the door every year, am I okay? With
spending less about half of one percent of their amount
to save order?
Speaker 3 (17:01):
How much is this size arrest going to save of
that money? How much as.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
And this is it? And this is what we hear
from labor. They are happy to sit back and say, well,
we're just not going to do anything. They did that
they try that crime was out of control. We all
know what it was like with ram raids, with retail crimes,
with dari Ow and his trapped behind a cage in
their own shop. I see it in my.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Electric citizens going to help, that is.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
It, absolutely And yet here we are Aishaverel was saying
we should do nothing, just don't do anything, just hope
that it can be And that is not the answer.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
I am saying two million dollars for an advisory group
that has delivered nothing. Don't cite the Cabinet free fees framework.
The fees are for doing work and no.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
Work, and they are doing work having an idea of
saying let's stop shoplifting. It's very different to having legislation
that has been tested, ready and is ready to go
through a part of the parliamentary process. There is a
huge amount of work and I think Aisha, as a
former minister, would know that.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Jim, tell us what you think Sonny Kirschel has done
for us.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
Well, he has led a team that is and look,
I don't work with him, right and I'm not on
the Justice Select Committee, but I have heard from the
Minister that he's very happy with what they what they
have done. They have got legislation to the point that
it is ready to go through the House that have
developed a bunch of ideas so that we can take it.
And if you look at the crime stats, crime is
(18:22):
turning around under this government. Our approach is absolutely working.
Even the things that label were Adaman wouldn't work like
a gang patch band. They've now turned around and said, well,
maybe okay, we got that wrong, but this is the
point we have to go and do stuff. We cannot
sit back and just hope it gets it gets better.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
There are you know, Sonny Kochal did not draft that
legislation that was drafted by the Parliamentary Council Office. What
he did was present a list of ideas that he
has been shopping around for ages. And you are paying
him two million dollars a day to rehash his old
two hundred million dollars two million dollars to rehash his
old ideas. It has not got value for money. It
(19:01):
is as bad as spending as the toilets and Courtney
place that you ridicule.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
And he offered that my us for free before and
it got and it just got that I'm throwing out
the door of the behind.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
We're not arguing about where the labor did anything about it,
but he gave the same advice for free. Now you're
spending money anyway. We've got to go. You guys have
got to go. I know you're both very busy. Tim,
you've got to get back to work. O TACKI, MP,
Tim Costley and Iceaviril, Wellington's issues and health spokesman for Labor.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
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