July 29, 2025 • 17 mins
Around 36,000 nurses are taking to the street today in an effort for better pay and conditions, but with the average nurse earning over $100,000 a year - are some being a bit greedy?
Also, while interest rates have lowered, many Wellingtonians are still feeling the pinch of a sluggish economy. When can we expect to see the economy bounce back?
Deputy Prime Minister and Act leader David Seymour joined Nick Mills in the studio.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk Said B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We've been joined by act Leader and Deputy Prime Minister
David Seymour.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Good morning, David, good morning. Can I start off per same.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
We've got this big nurse's strike on at the moment,
our nurses greedy.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
No, I don't think that the greedy. I'm sure that,
like everyone, we're trying to digest you know, five years
of inflation. We've got that inflation under control, but we've
still got about twenty percent higher prices than we had
five years ago. We haven't reversed the inflation. We've just
stopped the prices rising on average. That's not to say
(00:44):
that you know, something's like rates, some particular food stuffs
aren't still rising, but there's other things like rent that's
come down. Petrol's not bad compared with where it was
two years ago, for example. So on average, we've got
you know, inflation stopped, but people are still facing higher
costs than they were five years ago, and that's led
to a lot of pressure, no question about that. So
(01:05):
they're not greedy, the same pressure that basically everyone in
New Zealand's facing.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Do you think people on the behive, people in power
like yourself and the Prime Minister and Winston Peters know
how tough real New Zealand, the basic New Zealanders are
doing it.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Do you reckon you know it?
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Yeah? I do because as an electorate MP, I'm sitting
in my electorate. I'm talking to people who are doing
it tough. I know what you're saying. Oh, but people
in EPSOM are to say actually some people, actually, some
people in any community are And we have people who
have a real hard time, people living in boarding houses,
people's marriages break up with the stress coming out of COVID,
(01:41):
people lose jobs that there's no question that people are
facing very tough times. When they go to the supermarket
and they say, wow, you know, compared with five years ago,
prices are very high. So I think we do it
doesn't And and I just make the point. You know,
sometimes people say, if you're not this kind of person,
then you can't understand. Well, actually, the point of a
(02:03):
good representative is that they can ever be every type
of person. Nobody can be every type of person, but
you can listen to every type of person. And that's
what I try to do. Do you feel it, Yeah,
I do. I mean, I just look at what's happened
in the last few years. You go out and anything
you try to buy at the supermarket, at the cafe.
You know, petrol pumps come back a bit, but all
(02:25):
of that stuff's pretty tough. But the one thing that
I know is improving is that I've just refixed my
mortgage and it's a whole percent lower than what I
was paying before. I was talking to Victoria Short, who's
in charge of ASB, recently, and she said they've actually
passed the peak, so everybody now will be refixing, sorry,
(02:47):
on a lower rate than they previously had. So there
was a time, even up until a few months ago,
where people who maybe got the real good rates and
they were smart enough to take it for three years
back in say twenty twenty two, those guys when they refix,
they were going up to say a five or six,
which is lower than the sevens or eight that some
(03:07):
people got at the peak, but still higher than what
they had. Now, everybody who's refixing, according to ASB, is
actually refixing at a lower rate than they've come off,
and that is freeing up cash for everybody.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I think everybody agrees that the Coalition government's done a
great job with interest rates. Do you reckon that? Real
people actually think that they're actually getting looked after by
the Coalition government. Apart from the interest rates, what have
they done to try and help the economy grow. It
feels to me from it as a business person that
it's all top end, not real.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
Well, it does depend who you talk to. So for example,
I was down in Dunedin a couple of weeks ago.
Now talk to some people who are doing welding of
plastic pipes. They basically make that the elbows and the
connections that carry the sewitch. Now, I said, well, how
are you doing? They said, Look that the year has turned.
(04:01):
It's a new financial year as of June thirty and
as a result, we're now getting the orders coming through.
So with the three Waters reforms getting put into place,
people are ordering, people are buying, and that particular business
things are propping up. On the other hand, I've been
into shops where they say, look, we've had a zero day,
(04:21):
and what I would say is that there's always going
to be people who are up and people who are down.
But we are in a transition where you're starting to
talk to more people who are up unless people who
are down, and that is the reality of a cycle.
You know, inflation hit seven point three back in September
twenty twenty two. It was down to five point six
(04:42):
by the time we got into government. We've now got
inflation down to two point seven. With inflation under control.
Interest rates that peaked at five and a half at
the OCI now down to three and a quarter, and
that means that mortgages come down and people have more
cash to spend. Businesses can start hiring. So there is
this sequence of events inflation, interest rates, business confidence, hiring, employment.
(05:04):
I know it's long, I know it's painful, but I
think what the government has done by making crystal clear
we are not going on a spending binch for the
next four years, we will increase our spending by about
a percent and a half less than inflation, less than
population growth. By getting it getting our own books in order,
we're free up cash for the rest of the economy.
That is, I'm sorry, the best and most realistic thing
(05:27):
any responsible government can do.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
We were promised, actually on the show by your Finance minister,
that survives for twenty five and Christmas time We did
a show and she said, get through to twenty five
and everything's going to be okay. Nothing's changed in the
first six or seven months of twenty five, is you know,
we know how long do we have to hold on for?
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Well, I would go back to what I said a
second ago. There are people who will tell you that
actually things are changing the business confidence is coming up.
There are other people that I completely acknowledge are still
doing it very tough. There was someone in the paper
this morning with a construction company that's having to let
people go. So it depends, you know, both things can
(06:08):
be true at once. There is a recovery underway. There's
people who are feeling a lot more optimistic, starting to hire,
taking people on. There are people that are still coming
off the back of that cycle. And what can the
government do. If there was a policy we could just
go out and say this is it, We're going to
waive a wand and things will get better. We can't.
What we can do is give people confidence that we
(06:29):
are going to manage our own affairs carefully, and by
doing that, with our spending coming down each year, we're
actually making sure that people can have a bigger slice
of the pie, and I just want to say, you know,
I look at what my party has done as part
of the government. Has the government restrained its spending as
much as the ACT party would know. We put out
alternative budgets that said we would be more disciplined than
(06:52):
even this government. But it's done more than it would
without Act. You know, the first budget five hundred million
from my savings exercise. Second budget one hundred and fifteen
million saves wake out of medical school. We managed to
grind that down by two hundred million brook vne Valden
around pay equity, about thirteen billion savings over four years.
So you know, what we bring to the table is
the government saving money because when the government takes the
(07:14):
smaller slice of the pie, there's more for everybody else
than that recovery.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
You're on recorder in the last twenty four hours are
saying you're going to roll up your sleeves and you're going.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
To cut more. How does that help?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
How does that help get the economy going if you're cutting,
because that's going to be more people redundant, more about
of people, and more people on social welfare and the
numbers aren't lying on that sector.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Well, first of all. I think we've got to differentiate
between the government sector and the private sector. There's some
people out there who will say if the government spends
more money, that's good. I don't believe it's good for
the government to spend more money. It's good for the
government to be more efficient and get better results, and
that requires us to look for spending that maybe, if
(07:53):
we're honest, we wouldn't start it again today if we
weren't already doing it, And if we wouldn't start it today,
if we weren't already doing it, then maybe we should
stop it. When we do that, it means that we
can pay it on debt faster, we take pressure off
interest rates, were free up cash for everybody else. So
there's actually a trade off between money available in the
government and money available to people and their households, their businesses,
(08:14):
businesses that want to take people on, and so on.
So making the government smaller and more efficient means a
smaller size of the pie here and more for everybody else.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Let's talk about the coalition. How's it going. Have you
had a coffee in the last couple of weeks with Winston?
Speaker 4 (08:30):
I think I actually have. We had a meeting I
think we might have had coffee at it. But look,
we meet on a range of issues all the time.
I would say that if you look at what the
pundits were saying when we formed this government the first
ever time there's been three different parties in a cabinet,
they said, oh it all go get the popcorn, it
will be a disaster. Actually, what we've done is carried
(08:51):
out a stupendous amount of change, a whole lot of things,
you know, three warders, fair pay agreements so called, you know,
the Maori Health Authority. There were so many things that
were being done that were hugely wasteful.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Do you actually as a trio, do you actually go
into a room once a month or so as a
trio and just sit back and kick it and chat.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
No, we don't do that. We do have regular meetings together.
But bear in mind that you know, in any given
week we'll have probably three or four cabinet committees and
cabinet so we're in the same room discussing issues, you know,
four or five times in any given week.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Do you think that if you were in charge, that
you would do something significantly different than what the cardisson
are doing.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
Well, I think that's undoubtedly true. And you know Acts,
whether you like us or not, one thing, even our
worst enemies will usually admit as we put out more
ideas and more policies, we put out an alternative budget
every year that we're in opposition and say, look, if
you vote for Act, this is what you get.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
So, yes, we.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Would certainly be going harder and faster on cutting red tape,
We'd be cutting spending. We'd be trying to boost the
private side of the economy faster and allow people to
get out, build their businesses, build their homes, buil their families.
We believe that stuff is more important than growing the
size of government. But what we have also recognized is
that in order to keep a government and keep the
(10:17):
other guys out of government, because I mean I debated
Chloe Swarbrick again on the TV this morning on Herald Now,
and you only have to look at what New Zealand
would be like if those guys are in power. So
we're going to keep them out and then take the
winds where possible to make sure that the government is
smaller and more efficient. Underlying objective is that if you're
a New Zealander, then you or your ancestors made a
very brave trip at some point to come to one
(10:39):
of the most remote countries on Earth. That pioneering spirit
needs to live on within us, and that means less government,
less red tape, less tax and more opportunity to make
something of your time on Earth.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
I was about to ask tell David that I'm on
the streets quite a bit and talk to a lot
of people. You're with, David Seymour, by the way, depty
leader deeply Prime Minister. Gosh does that feel good? Depity
Prime Minister.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Well, as someone who's a libertarian and wants smaller government
becoming at the seat of the government. It's not always
an unmitigated success, but look, I'm proud of what really
is an achievement for a group of people who supported
me an Act even when it wasn't that popular. I mean,
you think it's unpopular now, you should go back to Well.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
I was in the middle of the night thinking about
knowing you were coming in. I say to myself, how
the hell did he get to And I listened to
you when you were really a young politician on a
Sunday thing, Sunday afternoon thing on zid B, when you
were really laughtched.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
I think this.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Guy's got something. This guy's got something. And then the
middle of night I was thinking about it. You're our
deputy bamb damn prime minister. I mean that's pretty big.
But let's let's move on from that. The thing that
I get when I'm talking to people, whether it's on
the streets, in a restaurant or a cafe or a bar,
they all seem to want to point the same finger
at the kylish and government up here.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Great middle.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
The guy with the ute with three staff, a builder
with a yute with three staff, working his butt off,
struggling to pay his bills. He feels that the government
that he voted in is just hurted him or hurt well.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
I have no doubt that there'll be people who feel
that way, because whenever you have a tough economy, people
vote on the economy and they'll vote against the government.
But my appeal to people who feel that way would
be Okay, you can see that. And I know you
don't like us blaming the last guys because we're empower now.
I get that too, but we do have to acknowledge
(12:30):
the pathway that got us here and the actions that
we're taking and sometimes the time lag required for those actions.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Could you do more? Could you do more?
Speaker 2 (12:39):
I mean you've got I mean my own experience well documented.
I got hammered by one of your departments, you know,
trying to do my best, trying to work. Bang, they'll
close you down, they don't want you to be in business.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Look, I completely agree. And this is one reason I
push the regulatory standard spill because the Regulatory standard spill
hated by left wing activist because it actually says if
a government or a parliament wants to make rules, are
going to restrict someone's property or put extra red tape
on them, then you've actually got to stand up and
(13:12):
justify it according to some set criteria. Now we've never
had that. We just say, oh well, if the mob
wants it, then you know, the poor person that's trying
to actually get somewhere just has to wear it. The
Regulatory Standards Bill is really a debate about who we are,
so I just want to put a plug in for that.
But the wider point is, Yep, there is a pretty
tough time out there. The government has taken a lot
(13:33):
of steps. I'm proud of what our government's done. A
lot of it doesn't work immediately. I accept that, but
we are actually doing the right things.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Okay, let's talk about a couple of things really quickly,
because I know you've got to go, and we've got
to go. We finish the show very shortly. Immigration, What
does New Zealand look like in ten years? I'm terrified.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
What are you terrified of?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I'm terrified that we are going to have the same
problems that they're having in France right now, same problems
are having in London right now, same problems are having
now that courting Melbourne the crime capital of Australia.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Yeah, I mean, I just go back to twenty six
and I was on this show or a show a
lot like it, and the point I made is that
we should actually have a New Zealand value statement. Now
that's not the government's policy, but I suspect it should
be that if you want to be part of New Zealand,
(14:23):
then you should sign up to the basic idea that
men and women are equal. Someone's sexuality or their religion,
it's a private matter. It's not for you to get
involved in criticizing or persecuting that we have certain rights
before the law in this country. That we have free
speech and if you don't like what someone says, then
come up with your own argument.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
We're running out of time, so I really want what
do you think it looks like? Do you think it's
a multi cultural you know, are we going to have
the same issues that they're having in France.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
Well, I think what you're alluding to with the issues
that they're talking about in France is do people sign
up to those basic values? And that's why I've long
said people should have to. But the facts are that,
you know, there are people out there who say, oh,
immigration cerebral, vote for me or get rid of it,
but they don't actually stop rel immigration when they get
into and I think the reason for that is that
this country and I'm sure you, as a business owner
(15:10):
will know this. If you want your business to succeed,
then you can't succeed when you've only got five million
people to pick from, when your competitors around the world
are operating in labor markets of half a billion.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
All right, now, I've got it.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Because I'm really running out of time and I really
want to ask you about this. ACTS decided to put
some people up to run for city councils around the gas.
What's your take on Wellington City Council give us David
Seymour's lisk.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
My take is in Wellington City you should vote for
Luke kilvill j and in Eastern Ray Bowden you know
you should vote for him. In Oslo, Western and Mark
Flynn and Northern, I mean those are at local candidates.
You can vote for them.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
That's what you think of Wellington right now?
Speaker 4 (15:49):
What do you think I was just getting into the soundboat?
Look and look. You vote for these guys because you
want less waste, lower rates. You don't want to be
socially engineered. You want to be able to drive. You
can't handpark it when you get there, rather than pay
for a cycle a way you don't use. And you're
second heard of council getting into political activism, trying to
divide us up by when our ancestors arrived on these islands.
(16:10):
We are all migrants, We are all people committed to
this country. And as Michael King, the historian once said,
if you're committed to this country, then you're just as
indigenous as anyone else. So I believe that acts local candidates,
those ones that I mentioned, those are the people who
I believe are worth voting for because finally, you can
vote for people that have a brand that attaches to
(16:31):
a set of values, so you know what you're getting
and you can hold them accountable. Otherwise you're going to
have a future of leaky pipes and two point three
million dollar toilets and it's absolutely shameful given this is
New Zealand's capital city.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Yeah, I see, I don't agree with you.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
I think that we should have a whole lot of
individuals that are Wellington based, people around that council table
that have got Wellington no party politics.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Okay, but let me ask you this question. Do you
remember who you voted for and did they do what
you thought they were going to do? Because the truth
is that people open up the book, they don't know
the names. They pick as best they can. They select
the person who's probably going to disappoint them, and often
don't recall who it was. It's no criticism of the voter,
it's just who can remember those names. The reason that
around the world people have political parties and political brands
(17:13):
is to simplify voter choice so you can see what
people stand for and hold them accountable for it.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
David Seymour, we've got to go. Thank you very much
for coming and giving us your time. Let's do it again,
Let's do it again shortly, and let's hope that we
do get back on track and get this bloody economy going.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
That's what we all want, doesn't it.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk Said B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We've been joined by act Leader and Deputy Prime Minister
David Seymour.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Good morning, David, good morning. Can I start off per same.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
We've got this big nurse's strike on at the moment,
our nurses greedy.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
No, I don't think that the greedy. I'm sure that,
like everyone, we're trying to digest you know, five years
of inflation. We've got that inflation under control, but we've
still got about twenty percent higher prices than we had
five years ago. We haven't reversed the inflation. We've just
stopped the prices rising on average. That's not to say
(00:44):
that you know, something's like rates, some particular food stuffs
aren't still rising, but there's other things like rent that's
come down. Petrol's not bad compared with where it was
two years ago, for example. So on average, we've got
you know, inflation stopped, but people are still facing higher
costs than they were five years ago, and that's led
to a lot of pressure, no question about that. So
(01:05):
they're not greedy, the same pressure that basically everyone in
New Zealand's facing.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Do you think people on the behive, people in power
like yourself and the Prime Minister and Winston Peters know
how tough real New Zealand, the basic New Zealanders are
doing it.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Do you reckon you know it?
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Yeah? I do because as an electorate MP, I'm sitting
in my electorate. I'm talking to people who are doing
it tough. I know what you're saying. Oh, but people
in EPSOM are to say actually some people, actually, some
people in any community are And we have people who
have a real hard time, people living in boarding houses,
people's marriages break up with the stress coming out of COVID,
(01:41):
people lose jobs that there's no question that people are
facing very tough times. When they go to the supermarket
and they say, wow, you know, compared with five years ago,
prices are very high. So I think we do it
doesn't And and I just make the point. You know,
sometimes people say, if you're not this kind of person,
then you can't understand. Well, actually, the point of a
(02:03):
good representative is that they can ever be every type
of person. Nobody can be every type of person, but
you can listen to every type of person. And that's
what I try to do. Do you feel it, Yeah,
I do. I mean, I just look at what's happened
in the last few years. You go out and anything
you try to buy at the supermarket, at the cafe.
You know, petrol pumps come back a bit, but all
(02:25):
of that stuff's pretty tough. But the one thing that
I know is improving is that I've just refixed my
mortgage and it's a whole percent lower than what I
was paying before. I was talking to Victoria Short, who's
in charge of ASB, recently, and she said they've actually
passed the peak, so everybody now will be refixing, sorry,
(02:47):
on a lower rate than they previously had. So there
was a time, even up until a few months ago,
where people who maybe got the real good rates and
they were smart enough to take it for three years
back in say twenty twenty two, those guys when they refix,
they were going up to say a five or six,
which is lower than the sevens or eight that some
(03:07):
people got at the peak, but still higher than what
they had. Now, everybody who's refixing, according to ASB, is
actually refixing at a lower rate than they've come off,
and that is freeing up cash for everybody.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I think everybody agrees that the Coalition government's done a
great job with interest rates. Do you reckon that? Real
people actually think that they're actually getting looked after by
the Coalition government. Apart from the interest rates, what have
they done to try and help the economy grow. It
feels to me from it as a business person that
it's all top end, not real.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
Well, it does depend who you talk to. So for example,
I was down in Dunedin a couple of weeks ago.
Now talk to some people who are doing welding of
plastic pipes. They basically make that the elbows and the
connections that carry the sewitch. Now, I said, well, how
are you doing? They said, Look that the year has turned.
(04:01):
It's a new financial year as of June thirty and
as a result, we're now getting the orders coming through.
So with the three Waters reforms getting put into place,
people are ordering, people are buying, and that particular business
things are propping up. On the other hand, I've been
into shops where they say, look, we've had a zero day,
(04:21):
and what I would say is that there's always going
to be people who are up and people who are down.
But we are in a transition where you're starting to
talk to more people who are up unless people who
are down, and that is the reality of a cycle.
You know, inflation hit seven point three back in September
twenty twenty two. It was down to five point six
(04:42):
by the time we got into government. We've now got
inflation down to two point seven. With inflation under control.
Interest rates that peaked at five and a half at
the OCI now down to three and a quarter, and
that means that mortgages come down and people have more
cash to spend. Businesses can start hiring. So there is
this sequence of events inflation, interest rates, business confidence, hiring, employment.
(05:04):
I know it's long, I know it's painful, but I
think what the government has done by making crystal clear
we are not going on a spending binch for the
next four years, we will increase our spending by about
a percent and a half less than inflation, less than
population growth. By getting it getting our own books in order,
we're free up cash for the rest of the economy.
That is, I'm sorry, the best and most realistic thing
(05:27):
any responsible government can do.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
We were promised, actually on the show by your Finance minister,
that survives for twenty five and Christmas time We did
a show and she said, get through to twenty five
and everything's going to be okay. Nothing's changed in the
first six or seven months of twenty five, is you know,
we know how long do we have to hold on for?
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Well, I would go back to what I said a
second ago. There are people who will tell you that
actually things are changing the business confidence is coming up.
There are other people that I completely acknowledge are still
doing it very tough. There was someone in the paper
this morning with a construction company that's having to let
people go. So it depends, you know, both things can
(06:08):
be true at once. There is a recovery underway. There's
people who are feeling a lot more optimistic, starting to hire,
taking people on. There are people that are still coming
off the back of that cycle. And what can the
government do. If there was a policy we could just
go out and say this is it, We're going to
waive a wand and things will get better. We can't.
What we can do is give people confidence that we
(06:29):
are going to manage our own affairs carefully, and by
doing that, with our spending coming down each year, we're
actually making sure that people can have a bigger slice
of the pie, and I just want to say, you know,
I look at what my party has done as part
of the government. Has the government restrained its spending as
much as the ACT party would know. We put out
alternative budgets that said we would be more disciplined than
(06:52):
even this government. But it's done more than it would
without Act. You know, the first budget five hundred million
from my savings exercise. Second budget one hundred and fifteen
million saves wake out of medical school. We managed to
grind that down by two hundred million brook vne Valden
around pay equity, about thirteen billion savings over four years.
So you know, what we bring to the table is
the government saving money because when the government takes the
(07:14):
smaller slice of the pie, there's more for everybody else
than that recovery.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
You're on recorder in the last twenty four hours are
saying you're going to roll up your sleeves and you're going.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
To cut more. How does that help?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
How does that help get the economy going if you're cutting,
because that's going to be more people redundant, more about
of people, and more people on social welfare and the
numbers aren't lying on that sector.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Well, first of all. I think we've got to differentiate
between the government sector and the private sector. There's some
people out there who will say if the government spends
more money, that's good. I don't believe it's good for
the government to spend more money. It's good for the
government to be more efficient and get better results, and
that requires us to look for spending that maybe, if
(07:53):
we're honest, we wouldn't start it again today if we
weren't already doing it, And if we wouldn't start it today,
if we weren't already doing it, then maybe we should
stop it. When we do that, it means that we
can pay it on debt faster, we take pressure off
interest rates, were free up cash for everybody else. So
there's actually a trade off between money available in the
government and money available to people and their households, their businesses,
(08:14):
businesses that want to take people on, and so on.
So making the government smaller and more efficient means a
smaller size of the pie here and more for everybody else.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Let's talk about the coalition. How's it going. Have you
had a coffee in the last couple of weeks with Winston?
Speaker 4 (08:30):
I think I actually have. We had a meeting I
think we might have had coffee at it. But look,
we meet on a range of issues all the time.
I would say that if you look at what the
pundits were saying when we formed this government the first
ever time there's been three different parties in a cabinet,
they said, oh it all go get the popcorn, it
will be a disaster. Actually, what we've done is carried
(08:51):
out a stupendous amount of change, a whole lot of things,
you know, three warders, fair pay agreements so called, you know,
the Maori Health Authority. There were so many things that
were being done that were hugely wasteful.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Do you actually as a trio, do you actually go
into a room once a month or so as a
trio and just sit back and kick it and chat.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
No, we don't do that. We do have regular meetings together.
But bear in mind that you know, in any given
week we'll have probably three or four cabinet committees and
cabinet so we're in the same room discussing issues, you know,
four or five times in any given week.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Do you think that if you were in charge, that
you would do something significantly different than what the cardisson
are doing.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
Well, I think that's undoubtedly true. And you know Acts,
whether you like us or not, one thing, even our
worst enemies will usually admit as we put out more
ideas and more policies, we put out an alternative budget
every year that we're in opposition and say, look, if
you vote for Act, this is what you get.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
So, yes, we.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Would certainly be going harder and faster on cutting red tape,
We'd be cutting spending. We'd be trying to boost the
private side of the economy faster and allow people to
get out, build their businesses, build their homes, buil their families.
We believe that stuff is more important than growing the
size of government. But what we have also recognized is
that in order to keep a government and keep the
(10:17):
other guys out of government, because I mean I debated
Chloe Swarbrick again on the TV this morning on Herald Now,
and you only have to look at what New Zealand
would be like if those guys are in power. So
we're going to keep them out and then take the
winds where possible to make sure that the government is
smaller and more efficient. Underlying objective is that if you're
a New Zealander, then you or your ancestors made a
very brave trip at some point to come to one
(10:39):
of the most remote countries on Earth. That pioneering spirit
needs to live on within us, and that means less government,
less red tape, less tax and more opportunity to make
something of your time on Earth.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
I was about to ask tell David that I'm on
the streets quite a bit and talk to a lot
of people. You're with, David Seymour, by the way, depty
leader deeply Prime Minister. Gosh does that feel good? Depity
Prime Minister.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Well, as someone who's a libertarian and wants smaller government
becoming at the seat of the government. It's not always
an unmitigated success, but look, I'm proud of what really
is an achievement for a group of people who supported
me an Act even when it wasn't that popular. I mean,
you think it's unpopular now, you should go back to Well.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
I was in the middle of the night thinking about
knowing you were coming in. I say to myself, how
the hell did he get to And I listened to
you when you were really a young politician on a
Sunday thing, Sunday afternoon thing on zid B, when you
were really laughtched.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
I think this.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Guy's got something. This guy's got something. And then the
middle of night I was thinking about it. You're our
deputy bamb damn prime minister. I mean that's pretty big.
But let's let's move on from that. The thing that
I get when I'm talking to people, whether it's on
the streets, in a restaurant or a cafe or a bar,
they all seem to want to point the same finger
at the kylish and government up here.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Great middle.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
The guy with the ute with three staff, a builder
with a yute with three staff, working his butt off,
struggling to pay his bills. He feels that the government
that he voted in is just hurted him or hurt well.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
I have no doubt that there'll be people who feel
that way, because whenever you have a tough economy, people
vote on the economy and they'll vote against the government.
But my appeal to people who feel that way would
be Okay, you can see that. And I know you
don't like us blaming the last guys because we're empower now.
I get that too, but we do have to acknowledge
(12:30):
the pathway that got us here and the actions that
we're taking and sometimes the time lag required for those actions.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Could you do more? Could you do more?
Speaker 2 (12:39):
I mean you've got I mean my own experience well documented.
I got hammered by one of your departments, you know,
trying to do my best, trying to work. Bang, they'll
close you down, they don't want you to be in business.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Look, I completely agree. And this is one reason I
push the regulatory standard spill because the Regulatory standard spill
hated by left wing activist because it actually says if
a government or a parliament wants to make rules, are
going to restrict someone's property or put extra red tape
on them, then you've actually got to stand up and
(13:12):
justify it according to some set criteria. Now we've never
had that. We just say, oh well, if the mob
wants it, then you know, the poor person that's trying
to actually get somewhere just has to wear it. The
Regulatory Standards Bill is really a debate about who we are,
so I just want to put a plug in for that.
But the wider point is, Yep, there is a pretty
tough time out there. The government has taken a lot
(13:33):
of steps. I'm proud of what our government's done. A
lot of it doesn't work immediately. I accept that, but
we are actually doing the right things.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Okay, let's talk about a couple of things really quickly,
because I know you've got to go, and we've got
to go. We finish the show very shortly. Immigration, What
does New Zealand look like in ten years? I'm terrified.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
What are you terrified of?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I'm terrified that we are going to have the same
problems that they're having in France right now, same problems
are having in London right now, same problems are having
now that courting Melbourne the crime capital of Australia.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Yeah, I mean, I just go back to twenty six
and I was on this show or a show a
lot like it, and the point I made is that
we should actually have a New Zealand value statement. Now
that's not the government's policy, but I suspect it should
be that if you want to be part of New Zealand,
(14:23):
then you should sign up to the basic idea that
men and women are equal. Someone's sexuality or their religion,
it's a private matter. It's not for you to get
involved in criticizing or persecuting that we have certain rights
before the law in this country. That we have free
speech and if you don't like what someone says, then
come up with your own argument.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
We're running out of time, so I really want what
do you think it looks like? Do you think it's
a multi cultural you know, are we going to have
the same issues that they're having in France.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
Well, I think what you're alluding to with the issues
that they're talking about in France is do people sign
up to those basic values? And that's why I've long
said people should have to. But the facts are that,
you know, there are people out there who say, oh,
immigration cerebral, vote for me or get rid of it,
but they don't actually stop rel immigration when they get
into and I think the reason for that is that
this country and I'm sure you, as a business owner
(15:10):
will know this. If you want your business to succeed,
then you can't succeed when you've only got five million
people to pick from, when your competitors around the world
are operating in labor markets of half a billion.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
All right, now, I've got it.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Because I'm really running out of time and I really
want to ask you about this. ACTS decided to put
some people up to run for city councils around the gas.
What's your take on Wellington City Council give us David
Seymour's lisk.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
My take is in Wellington City you should vote for
Luke kilvill j and in Eastern Ray Bowden you know
you should vote for him. In Oslo, Western and Mark
Flynn and Northern, I mean those are at local candidates.
You can vote for them.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
That's what you think of Wellington right now?
Speaker 4 (15:49):
What do you think I was just getting into the soundboat?
Look and look. You vote for these guys because you
want less waste, lower rates. You don't want to be
socially engineered. You want to be able to drive. You
can't handpark it when you get there, rather than pay
for a cycle a way you don't use. And you're
second heard of council getting into political activism, trying to
divide us up by when our ancestors arrived on these islands.
(16:10):
We are all migrants, We are all people committed to
this country. And as Michael King, the historian once said,
if you're committed to this country, then you're just as
indigenous as anyone else. So I believe that acts local candidates,
those ones that I mentioned, those are the people who
I believe are worth voting for because finally, you can
vote for people that have a brand that attaches to
(16:31):
a set of values, so you know what you're getting
and you can hold them accountable. Otherwise you're going to
have a future of leaky pipes and two point three
million dollar toilets and it's absolutely shameful given this is
New Zealand's capital city.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Yeah, I see, I don't agree with you.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
I think that we should have a whole lot of
individuals that are Wellington based, people around that council table
that have got Wellington no party politics.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Okay, but let me ask you this question. Do you
remember who you voted for and did they do what
you thought they were going to do? Because the truth
is that people open up the book, they don't know
the names. They pick as best they can. They select
the person who's probably going to disappoint them, and often
don't recall who it was. It's no criticism of the voter,
it's just who can remember those names. The reason that
around the world people have political parties and political brands
(17:13):
is to simplify voter choice so you can see what
people stand for and hold them accountable for it.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
David Seymour, we've got to go. Thank you very much
for coming and giving us your time. Let's do it again,
Let's do it again shortly, and let's hope that we
do get back on track and get this bloody economy going.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
That's what we all want, doesn't it.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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