August 20, 2025 • 21 mins
On Politics Thursday, Labour's Ginny Andersen and National's Mike Butterick discuss the new Official Cash Rate, and whether comments by Prime Minister Chris Luxon and Finance Minister Nicola Willis were appropriate.
They also looked at the teacher strike, and whether Foreign Minister Winston Peters was right to remove Trevor Mallard as Ambassador to Ireland.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome to Politics Thursday, Labors, Police and Jobs and Income
spokesperson Ginny Anderson joins me in the studio. Now, Ginny,
I'm going to start with a question. Are you a
generous person?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
A genderous person?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Generous?
Speaker 4 (00:26):
A generous person? Yeah, I think I'm reasonably generous. I
would say that.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Well, you know when you were a regular on the
show at Christmas time, you brought me a bottle of wine.
Today you've walked in with a cup of coffee for me.
I mean, I mean, right now is exactly when I
need a cup of coffee and you brought one on
the door.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Oh that's nice. It's always nice to surprise people. Sometimes
it's the little things in life that make things better.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Well, I don't think buying somebody at coffee is a
little thing. I think it's a big thing. So I
appreciate it. And Nationals. Why wrapper MP Mike Butterreck, who
hasn't even graced us in the studio this morning?
Speaker 5 (01:02):
Yeah, how are you doing? Now? Over a come out
of sleep committee? And I've got meetings straight.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
After this, so I know you're a bit scared of me.
Speaker 5 (01:11):
I'm not scared to you, no way at all.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I know that you know, oh Jenny Reckons, you might
be a bit scared of her. I can ensure you
I'm not that okay. Reserve Bank has cut the o
CR to three percent and signal more cuts are on
the way. Is this enough to kickstart a stagnant economy?
Will Let's listen to Nick what Nikola Willis has to
(01:35):
say about it.
Speaker 6 (01:36):
First, let's listen to merchants of misery every day, most
of whom sit on the opposition language. You like to
be doom sayers and talk down the New Zealand economy.
Do you think your merchants of misery kind of comments
is a bit ignorant in terms of like the cost
of living precius that kiwis under at the moment. Every
time they go to the supermarket, things are really expensive
(01:58):
at the moment.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
The economy is not that good for them.
Speaker 6 (02:00):
I think it's been a really tough time for Kievy families.
There's absolutely no denying that. But we kind of have
a choice. Do we talk ourselves into an ongoing funk
or do we look ahead and recognize that things will
get better.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
So you've heard the Finance minister, Jenny, what do you think,
out of touch?
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Just completely out of touch with how tough people are
doing it and how many businesses are going under.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So the OCI rate, I mean, that's a good, very
positive move, and the fact that there was people on
the board thinking it should have gone down further. That's
pretty good news, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
It is good news, But it's it's the Reserve Bank
doing the work of what this government should be doing.
And the question is what are they doing to help families,
to help people struggling with the cost of living, and
what are they doing to help businesses because there's no
other actions that they're taking, no other stimulus to the economy.
And you can hear from those comments from Nikola Willis
(02:57):
that she's definitely utilizing her English literature degree with some
of those great phrases she's cooked up, but she's not
actually using her ability to stimulus the economy in any way.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Mike Ginny's right, isn't it. I Mean, yes, we've got
the interest rates coming down and the OCI numbers are
coming down, so that's great, but what else is happening?
Speaker 5 (03:17):
Yeah, and first thing I guess on the OCR announcement. Look,
that is really great. And bear in mind we were
at five and a half percent, so you know we've
come down two and a half percent, and that will
actually make a material difference to a lot of people
with you know, particularly a mortgage. There's you know these
to make this. I think about close to forty percent
of mortgages still to come off fixed rates in the
next week while and I'm sure those reduced rates they
(03:39):
will be very, very welcome, Nick. And you know that
when I say material difference, if you hit a five
hundred thousand dollars mortgage, that could be somewhere around about
three hundred, three hundred and fifty dollars a fortnite in your pocket.
You know what, some of those people might go out
and have a meal and have a beer and get
our town's going again. So look, that's so that is
great news. And in terms of what else we're doing,
(04:00):
you know, we have got six billion dollars of bricks
and mortar infrastructure projects projects going to be started before Christmas.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Mike, Mike, I get ghost jobs, Neck, I get that,
but I read out this morning six companies that are
gone into liquidation are those people going to go and
be able to work on the streets, are they going
to get jobs?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
And that?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I mean, things are pretty damn tough, aren't they.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
Look, there's no one's denying that it's been tough and
everybody has agreed on that, and it's slow. So what
are those things we need to be responsible as a
government because government has been a contributor to inflation. You know,
we had inflation at seven point three percent, and then
as the consequence, interest rates had to go up or
the OCR went up, which just means you pay more
(04:48):
for your money. That's come down, Inflation's come down to
two point seven percent, interest rates come down from five
and a half to three percent or sorry the OCR.
That makes material difference. The FARS trek that is going
to speed up some of those infrastructure jobs so we
can actually get some show on the ground, and that
means jobs and growth. Nick, Ginny, there's a lot of
(05:11):
things we're doing.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Ginny, We're hearing all the right things. But you and
I are both on the streets. They're not that's not
what we're hearing.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
It's not what we're hearing, it's not what we're seeing.
It's not what we're feeling. Christopher Luxen promised New Zealanders
he was going to make the economy better. It's actually
got worse under his watch, and that's why we're seeing
record numbers of New Zealand. New Zealanders just leaving our country.
Speaker 5 (05:36):
Now.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
I met some people at the one who might to
rugby club who are working in construction heading off shore
in the next couple of weeks to find jobs over there.
You know, they're around my age, They've worked their whole lives,
are doing really good jobs that we need here in
New Zealand, and our businesses are going under at such
a rate that it can't sustain the workforce. And the
big question is great that they've got this evidently six
(05:59):
billion dollars worth of stuff that's going to start happening
before Christmas, but we've got to attract the workforce back
here to start doing those construction jobs. Guarantee they'll use
immigration as a lever to try and meet those needs.
That's no way to run a country that stops start.
And it's not fear on those key weeks who have
worked their whole lives here who deserve a fair weight here.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Do you think that your Carlis and government. Mike has
lost a little bit of touch and reality. I know
that your background isn't farming. So farming is doing it
well and doing great, and that's fabulous for our country,
but is it helping real New Zealanders.
Speaker 5 (06:34):
Look at will Nick. You know economic recovery doesn't happen
a heartbeat, and you know it would be nice if
Jenny will acknowledge Labor government's culpability in the situation we
find ourselves in there, and that is the economic reality.
You think the economy you triple are debt servicing. I
mean to wash our face. Our interest bill has gone
from three and a half billion dollars a year to
(06:56):
nine billion, and we can only thank Labor for that.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
Mike, you've got to be frank though, and we were
covering this yesterday.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
You've got to be honest.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Though, Mike and your party voted for all of those
COVID payments. And not only did you vote for all
those COVID payments, you lobbied us when we were in
government for more and we were in the general debate
yesterday we made this clear. You voted for them, and
you asked for more support for those COVID payments. So
it's well and good to stand back now and put
in your finger and say that was over spending, But
(07:24):
your hands were all over there at the time when
this country was in crisis. So standing back now and
crime wolf doesn't wash.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
But Ginny, the problem is you carried on spending and
there was no focus on outcomes, and outcomes is what
actually matters, and they always have metas it's about value
for taxpayers money. You guys got addicted to spending and
just carried on spending. You spend, spent eighty four percent more,
tripled our debt. And what do we look and we
look around and see what material difference or improvements did
(07:53):
you make for this country.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Mike, your government is borrowing and spending more than we
did in COVID, and that's a.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Fact right now.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
In a large part of that, Ginny, is servicing the
debt that you guys wrecked up because you tripled the debt.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
And it's also giving tax breaks to tobacco companies and
land lords what you've done, and we believe those are
the wrong choices because they don't help Kiwis who are
struggling with the cost of living.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
There has been a lot of talk Mike about you know,
the coalition looking after the very very rich.
Speaker 5 (08:26):
No, that's completely young fear, complete young.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Very very rich.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
That is that is very rich, very very that is
complete young fear. You know, we are dealing. We are
having a spoonful of medicine that labor dissed up to us.
That is the economic reality. We are focused on those
things that will make a material difference to New Zealanders
and that is, you know, getting stuff going, creating jobs.
(08:53):
You know, the RMA changes are fundamentally important to this country.
Fast track, the building changes and all those things contribute
to jobs.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I get that. What is next? Tell us your net smooth,
because sooner or later the song about the previous government's
going to run out of people listening to it.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
Yeah, and look, things, these things do take a little
bit of time to bet them because some of the
stuff we're doing is fundamental. It's those foundational changes that
we need to get right as the country. You think
about the RNA, think about our energy costs at the moment.
For a long time, decades, across success a successive governments,
we have struggled to do anything, and as a consequence,
(09:35):
we don't have enough power capacity, and it is our
regulatory roadblocks if you like that have got on the
way and so we need I mean, you think about
the windmills. Eight years to consent and it takes two
years to build. I mean, it's just ridiculous. We have
just tied ourselves up in knots and so some of
those rama changes they will fundamentally shift the dial and
(09:58):
I would hope they have supports the fast tack. Again,
it's a pathway to get stuff done.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Jinny, When will we hear it anything from labor? When
will we start seeing tax ideas, economy ideas? When are
we going to start seeing that?
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Typically election policies come out an election year, but we've
said we'll have our tax policy out before the end
of the year and we will move after that to
put policies in between beginning of twenty three leading into
the legal.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
So Apart from capital gains, what else are we going
to see?
Speaker 4 (10:27):
Well, those policy decisions are all being discussed currently. But
one of the problems our economy does have is that
there's no incentives in the productive economy for people to
actually do more than just buying sale houses off each
other and that's been a real problem for New Zealand
in the past. When I look at what we did
in the video gaming development, that was a forty million
dollar rebate, that industry went from earning New Zealand about
(10:49):
four hundred million a year to well over seven hundred
million a year. That's good, high paying jobs, that brings
money into our economy. We want to see more initiatives
like that.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Politics Thursday with Ginny Anderson and Mike Butterick teachers teachers.
Ginny twenty thousand and went off and walked off the
job yesterday fighting for better pay, saying that the one
percent is actually a pay cut, which realistically it probably is.
(11:19):
Is striking effective, well, what would.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Be effect is having some ministers that it wasn't the question.
They actually know what they get paid.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
So is striking effective? Do you think striking is a
good thing?
Speaker 4 (11:29):
Well, I think it's a it's your right. You've got
a right to be able to demand better pay. And
this government's taken a whole lot of rights out of
workers already. They've changed the rights for partial strikes. I've
legislated you can't do that, and so we said when
they pass that legislation to take away partial strikes, you'll
see more strikes. And so that's exactly what we're seeing.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
They've got a right to strike, and they've got a
damn good right to ask for some more money.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
They do an amazing.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Job, Mike. Should it have taken a day of disruption
for kids learning? We all know what state the kids
learning is. We need to improve it. Disruption in the
classroom for Brian Roach to confirm, they need to re
visit the offer. So striking has.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
Worked well, I think fundamentally, I guess the first thing
I would say, and I acknowledge that the very good
work that teachers do do and I don't think that
would be in this dispute. But I mean, look, they
had six days negotiation and then they walked away. I mean,
give it a fear go at the negotiating table first,
and I would suggest six days is probably not a
fear go. There's a choice of disruption over dialogue, you know,
(12:32):
And you know, i'd recommend that they consider going back
to the negotiating table, sit down and have a conversation.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
But quhen you've got the government that has scrapped their
pay equity claim and prevented them from being able to
take that claim, you've got to expect a strong reaction
like this. They're rightfully angry that they've not only had
one percent, but their pay equity claim has been chucked
out by this government as well.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Jinny, if I asked you, and this is not a
trick question or the SMAMI question, but if I asked
you of how much a teacher that's been in education
for say ten years, how much would they earn?
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Well, we start on about sixty five sixty seven roughly,
and so midpoint i'm guessing would be below one hundred thousand.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
So it's under one hundred thousand.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
So basically we're hearing that teachers are worth less and
nurses no.
Speaker 5 (13:27):
Look, I couldn't comment on what the average wage is.
I think it's about one hundred to one hundred and
maybe five slash ten thousand. You know, it's like other
people will make a judgment ester whether that's enough or
not enough. I mean, it's not bad in the context
of what the average salary is across the country. But again,
you know, i'd recommend go back to the table, but
(13:49):
I would also just point out, you know that there
are other ways that we have showing our support the teachers.
The teachers registration is getting paid and we've got a
minister that's absolutely backing them in regards to For years
and years across successive governments, teachers parents have been crying
out for learning support, investment in the classrooms. We've had
(14:11):
a once in a lifetime increase in investment nine hundred
hours and hours learning support building up to two million hours.
So those are other ways that we have shown out.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
But this is these guys have given national have given
board directors an eighty percent increase in salary, and they
won't they give teachers one percent.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
I mean that just shows where they're priority.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
I'll ask you a quick question on this journey because
i'd love to get your opinion on this. Is this
a fail for Public Service Commissioner Sir Brian Roach, Because
I mean suddenly they strike and he says we're going
back to the table.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Well, what I will say is that it's interesting that
we've now got him. We've now got him across all
of those That was never the case that was a
direct relationship between the Minister and the Chief executive. So
they've brought in Brian Roach as a sort of a
manager to make sure. What I'm estimating is it's the
government's way of controlling exactly what payofers are provided to
(15:02):
those different organizations. So it's another way that this government
have got the reins on minimizing the amount of pay
that those hard working people in the frontline giving public
services like teachers are getting.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Right, let's move to the Carnival's over. Trevor Mallard is
coming home from his post as Irish ambassador four months
earlier after being replaced by Winston Peters. The Foreign Minister
says the former politicians like Mallard should not be at
diplomatic posting. Oh my gosh, Mike Butterick, is this a
little bit petty by Winston Peters or does he have
(15:36):
a point four months to go? Surely he should have
just waded it out.
Speaker 5 (15:42):
No, Look, I mean, ultimately that's a question for Winston Peters.
I do know that Angela. I think it's Hassan Sharp.
I may have said the name wrong. She'll be fantastic too,
She'll be a fantastic ambassador. Keeap of experience, I mean,
I guess. Look, it's important that we are represented by
very experienced and qualified diplomats. Because they're there to represent
(16:04):
our country and our interests. But I think it's important
that we don't see the president where government can come
and get elected and effectively set diplomas from the other side.
So it is important that we get the right people there.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Well, that's exactly what he's done. Just absolutely did that.
But I mean, did Treva Mallard do anything wrong. I'm
not the world's greatest fan of Trevor Mallard's and I
don't think he should have got the post in the
first place. I have to put it out there, but
did he do anything wrong?
Speaker 4 (16:33):
By all accounts, it seems like it just came completely
out of the blue. So, you know, I don't know
whether Winston's just trying to curry favor with some of
his supporters that didn't like what, you know, Trevor did
over the COVID occupation. That's been one theory that's been
floating around. But from all accounts, Trevor was doing an
incredibly good job over there and representing New Zealand very well,
(16:56):
and so it seems to be quite petty that this
has happened. I mean, if Winston really had a problem
with Trevor Mallard, in that position. Why didn't he make
that determination when he first became the minister as opposed?
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Right now here is getting.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Paid out for the full term? Will he be paid
out for the full time?
Speaker 4 (17:12):
I understand it's got a contract in place, so I
guess that's up for Harman, you know, whoever is negotiating
was to determine what he does with that. But it
does seem like it's politically motivated.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Yeah, especially when Mike Buttery just said it doesn't want
political appointing.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
Yeah, that's right, but I think we do need to
be mindful that we don't sit there president.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
But I mean that mean Jerry's not going to go
to London, I think.
Speaker 5 (17:35):
But it was well publicized in a public forum, Driven
Millard made some comments that you know, perhaps transgressed diploma
normal diplomacy, so you know, but again it's a decision
for Winston Peters.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
I do.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
I love to say this.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
I was on with a Mark make sure, which we've
got withst and Peter's doing something else, and they're in
the cabinet together like they're part of government, like it's
a collective responsibility. I love the way this government completely
designed their coalition partners when it's them like that you're
actually in the same governments, Like, oh, that's a matter
for Winston Peters, nothing to do with me here.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
It is a bit weird, is that weird? Yeah? And
the Prime Minister doesn't know what's going on.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
No, And it just it's like it seems like Winston
Peter's and David Seymour can do whatever they want and
the Prime Minister in National have got nothing to do
with it.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
And it just seems crazy to me.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
They even danced together your your leader in.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
The end, like it was more vigorously dancing than Chippy.
I do believe I saw that video.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
They both look pretty damn ordinary to me as dancers,
you know, they they've changed the opinion of people and
white people dancing. The government will hold councils being liable
for fixing building issues when the buildings builder building companies
go under Jinny, do you agree with us? I know
Chippy is quite a warm on it.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Look, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
But the real riskers for those those people, right, you
want to make sure who's carrying that liability and we
don't want to see a rebate.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Repeat of leaky houses. Where you saw.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Either people in apartments and Wellington heaps affected here in Wellington,
or or a townhouse with that cletting where we went
up that that would leak afterwards and then huge costs
in terms of determining who was liable for that. So
it just needs to be really clear where that liability
sits and to make sure there's good consumer protection in place.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
My concern on this, Mike is that it's a really
good idea and Cross Party are talking about it, but
the devil's in the detail. How soon will we get
that detail?
Speaker 5 (19:30):
Yeah, you're right, Nick, the devil will always be in
the detail. But look in terms of time frame, I
couldn't give you a stare on that, but you know
i'd point out the New Zealand certified builders have said
this is the most significant change in the building industry
in a generation and it has It's been a long
time coming, and you know, we all know the pressure
(19:52):
that the council was under in terms of those rates
and the costs and the rate payers. There has been
a bit of reticence from councils, which you know, if
it goes wrong, it falls back on the council and
it goes downhill and ends up the rate payers paying
the bill.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Right, I've got a quick question for you both because
I've wanted to do the story for a while and
that's coming up in the next half hour. Mike Butter
it when you go out for dinner, right, do you
get a doggie bag at the end if you haven't
finished your meal? Would you take get a doggy bag?
Speaker 5 (20:24):
No? I don't go out for dinner very often. They can. No.
I tend to eat everything that's in front of me.
I'm on a seafood, seafood, I eat it.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
I said that. I said beforehand. He comes from a
farming background. They will never take a doggy bag. O.
Jinny Anderson definitely, would you take a doggy back?
Speaker 4 (20:42):
And I'm going to give a shout out to Kasing
and Jackson Street, which is just an my office and
for Tony because they give the biggest meals for about
twenty seven dollars.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
One dash would.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Feed three people, so if we order two, it does
the family for the next day as well, and even
the kids get it in the lunch. So Kiseing and
Jackson Street best value for money. I've seen Asian restaurant
really good. Yeah, does this last Vietnamese combo and it's bwayo.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
There you go. I was right. I'm celebrating twenty nine
minutes to twelve. Thank you Mike Butterick, Thank you Ginny Anderson,
and thank you for the coffee. It is gorgeous. It's
actually the best coffee. I please to hear that You're
my favorite now.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
Day.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
You know who you know who brought me a cheese gone?
Guests who brought me a cheese gone when they came
in to do an interview with me, No coast to
Chippy just written a book.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Grant grant for your brought me a cheese gone?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
How nice coffin. The coffee is the best coffee of
it and I'm going to take it with me and
heat it up later as my dog. You beg.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome to Politics Thursday, Labors, Police and Jobs and Income
spokesperson Ginny Anderson joins me in the studio. Now, Ginny,
I'm going to start with a question. Are you a
generous person?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
A genderous person?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Generous?
Speaker 4 (00:26):
A generous person? Yeah, I think I'm reasonably generous. I
would say that.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Well, you know when you were a regular on the
show at Christmas time, you brought me a bottle of wine.
Today you've walked in with a cup of coffee for me.
I mean, I mean, right now is exactly when I
need a cup of coffee and you brought one on
the door.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Oh that's nice. It's always nice to surprise people. Sometimes
it's the little things in life that make things better.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Well, I don't think buying somebody at coffee is a
little thing. I think it's a big thing. So I
appreciate it. And Nationals. Why wrapper MP Mike Butterreck, who
hasn't even graced us in the studio this morning?
Speaker 5 (01:02):
Yeah, how are you doing? Now? Over a come out
of sleep committee? And I've got meetings straight.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
After this, so I know you're a bit scared of me.
Speaker 5 (01:11):
I'm not scared to you, no way at all.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I know that you know, oh Jenny Reckons, you might
be a bit scared of her. I can ensure you
I'm not that okay. Reserve Bank has cut the o
CR to three percent and signal more cuts are on
the way. Is this enough to kickstart a stagnant economy?
Will Let's listen to Nick what Nikola Willis has to
(01:35):
say about it.
Speaker 6 (01:36):
First, let's listen to merchants of misery every day, most
of whom sit on the opposition language. You like to
be doom sayers and talk down the New Zealand economy.
Do you think your merchants of misery kind of comments
is a bit ignorant in terms of like the cost
of living precius that kiwis under at the moment. Every
time they go to the supermarket, things are really expensive
(01:58):
at the moment.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
The economy is not that good for them.
Speaker 6 (02:00):
I think it's been a really tough time for Kievy families.
There's absolutely no denying that. But we kind of have
a choice. Do we talk ourselves into an ongoing funk
or do we look ahead and recognize that things will
get better.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
So you've heard the Finance minister, Jenny, what do you think,
out of touch?
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Just completely out of touch with how tough people are
doing it and how many businesses are going under.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So the OCI rate, I mean, that's a good, very
positive move, and the fact that there was people on
the board thinking it should have gone down further. That's
pretty good news, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
It is good news, But it's it's the Reserve Bank
doing the work of what this government should be doing.
And the question is what are they doing to help families,
to help people struggling with the cost of living, and
what are they doing to help businesses because there's no
other actions that they're taking, no other stimulus to the economy.
And you can hear from those comments from Nikola Willis
(02:57):
that she's definitely utilizing her English literature degree with some
of those great phrases she's cooked up, but she's not
actually using her ability to stimulus the economy in any way.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Mike Ginny's right, isn't it. I Mean, yes, we've got
the interest rates coming down and the OCI numbers are
coming down, so that's great, but what else is happening?
Speaker 5 (03:17):
Yeah, and first thing I guess on the OCR announcement. Look,
that is really great. And bear in mind we were
at five and a half percent, so you know we've
come down two and a half percent, and that will
actually make a material difference to a lot of people
with you know, particularly a mortgage. There's you know these
to make this. I think about close to forty percent
of mortgages still to come off fixed rates in the
next week while and I'm sure those reduced rates they
(03:39):
will be very, very welcome, Nick. And you know that
when I say material difference, if you hit a five
hundred thousand dollars mortgage, that could be somewhere around about
three hundred, three hundred and fifty dollars a fortnite in your pocket.
You know what, some of those people might go out
and have a meal and have a beer and get
our town's going again. So look, that's so that is
great news. And in terms of what else we're doing,
(04:00):
you know, we have got six billion dollars of bricks
and mortar infrastructure projects projects going to be started before Christmas.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Mike, Mike, I get ghost jobs, Neck, I get that,
but I read out this morning six companies that are
gone into liquidation are those people going to go and
be able to work on the streets, are they going
to get jobs?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
And that?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I mean, things are pretty damn tough, aren't they.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
Look, there's no one's denying that it's been tough and
everybody has agreed on that, and it's slow. So what
are those things we need to be responsible as a
government because government has been a contributor to inflation. You know,
we had inflation at seven point three percent, and then
as the consequence, interest rates had to go up or
the OCR went up, which just means you pay more
(04:48):
for your money. That's come down, Inflation's come down to
two point seven percent, interest rates come down from five
and a half to three percent or sorry the OCR.
That makes material difference. The FARS trek that is going
to speed up some of those infrastructure jobs so we
can actually get some show on the ground, and that
means jobs and growth. Nick, Ginny, there's a lot of
(05:11):
things we're doing.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Ginny, We're hearing all the right things. But you and
I are both on the streets. They're not that's not
what we're hearing.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
It's not what we're hearing, it's not what we're seeing.
It's not what we're feeling. Christopher Luxen promised New Zealanders
he was going to make the economy better. It's actually
got worse under his watch, and that's why we're seeing
record numbers of New Zealand. New Zealanders just leaving our country.
Speaker 5 (05:36):
Now.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
I met some people at the one who might to
rugby club who are working in construction heading off shore
in the next couple of weeks to find jobs over there.
You know, they're around my age, They've worked their whole lives,
are doing really good jobs that we need here in
New Zealand, and our businesses are going under at such
a rate that it can't sustain the workforce. And the
big question is great that they've got this evidently six
(05:59):
billion dollars worth of stuff that's going to start happening
before Christmas, but we've got to attract the workforce back
here to start doing those construction jobs. Guarantee they'll use
immigration as a lever to try and meet those needs.
That's no way to run a country that stops start.
And it's not fear on those key weeks who have
worked their whole lives here who deserve a fair weight here.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Do you think that your Carlis and government. Mike has
lost a little bit of touch and reality. I know
that your background isn't farming. So farming is doing it
well and doing great, and that's fabulous for our country,
but is it helping real New Zealanders.
Speaker 5 (06:34):
Look at will Nick. You know economic recovery doesn't happen
a heartbeat, and you know it would be nice if
Jenny will acknowledge Labor government's culpability in the situation we
find ourselves in there, and that is the economic reality.
You think the economy you triple are debt servicing. I
mean to wash our face. Our interest bill has gone
from three and a half billion dollars a year to
(06:56):
nine billion, and we can only thank Labor for that.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
Mike, you've got to be frank though, and we were
covering this yesterday.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
You've got to be honest.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Though, Mike and your party voted for all of those
COVID payments. And not only did you vote for all
those COVID payments, you lobbied us when we were in
government for more and we were in the general debate
yesterday we made this clear. You voted for them, and
you asked for more support for those COVID payments. So
it's well and good to stand back now and put
in your finger and say that was over spending, But
(07:24):
your hands were all over there at the time when
this country was in crisis. So standing back now and
crime wolf doesn't wash.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
But Ginny, the problem is you carried on spending and
there was no focus on outcomes, and outcomes is what
actually matters, and they always have metas it's about value
for taxpayers money. You guys got addicted to spending and
just carried on spending. You spend, spent eighty four percent more,
tripled our debt. And what do we look and we
look around and see what material difference or improvements did
(07:53):
you make for this country.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Mike, your government is borrowing and spending more than we
did in COVID, and that's a.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Fact right now.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
In a large part of that, Ginny, is servicing the
debt that you guys wrecked up because you tripled the debt.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
And it's also giving tax breaks to tobacco companies and
land lords what you've done, and we believe those are
the wrong choices because they don't help Kiwis who are
struggling with the cost of living.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
There has been a lot of talk Mike about you know,
the coalition looking after the very very rich.
Speaker 5 (08:26):
No, that's completely young fear, complete young.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Very very rich.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
That is that is very rich, very very that is
complete young fear. You know, we are dealing. We are
having a spoonful of medicine that labor dissed up to us.
That is the economic reality. We are focused on those
things that will make a material difference to New Zealanders
and that is, you know, getting stuff going, creating jobs.
(08:53):
You know, the RMA changes are fundamentally important to this country.
Fast track, the building changes and all those things contribute
to jobs.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I get that. What is next? Tell us your net smooth,
because sooner or later the song about the previous government's
going to run out of people listening to it.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
Yeah, and look, things, these things do take a little
bit of time to bet them because some of the
stuff we're doing is fundamental. It's those foundational changes that
we need to get right as the country. You think
about the RNA, think about our energy costs at the moment.
For a long time, decades, across success a successive governments,
we have struggled to do anything, and as a consequence,
(09:35):
we don't have enough power capacity, and it is our
regulatory roadblocks if you like that have got on the
way and so we need I mean, you think about
the windmills. Eight years to consent and it takes two
years to build. I mean, it's just ridiculous. We have
just tied ourselves up in knots and so some of
those rama changes they will fundamentally shift the dial and
(09:58):
I would hope they have supports the fast tack. Again,
it's a pathway to get stuff done.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Jinny, When will we hear it anything from labor? When
will we start seeing tax ideas, economy ideas? When are
we going to start seeing that?
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Typically election policies come out an election year, but we've
said we'll have our tax policy out before the end
of the year and we will move after that to
put policies in between beginning of twenty three leading into
the legal.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
So Apart from capital gains, what else are we going
to see?
Speaker 4 (10:27):
Well, those policy decisions are all being discussed currently. But
one of the problems our economy does have is that
there's no incentives in the productive economy for people to
actually do more than just buying sale houses off each
other and that's been a real problem for New Zealand
in the past. When I look at what we did
in the video gaming development, that was a forty million
dollar rebate, that industry went from earning New Zealand about
(10:49):
four hundred million a year to well over seven hundred
million a year. That's good, high paying jobs, that brings
money into our economy. We want to see more initiatives
like that.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Politics Thursday with Ginny Anderson and Mike Butterick teachers teachers.
Ginny twenty thousand and went off and walked off the
job yesterday fighting for better pay, saying that the one
percent is actually a pay cut, which realistically it probably is.
(11:19):
Is striking effective, well, what would.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Be effect is having some ministers that it wasn't the question.
They actually know what they get paid.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
So is striking effective? Do you think striking is a
good thing?
Speaker 4 (11:29):
Well, I think it's a it's your right. You've got
a right to be able to demand better pay. And
this government's taken a whole lot of rights out of
workers already. They've changed the rights for partial strikes. I've
legislated you can't do that, and so we said when
they pass that legislation to take away partial strikes, you'll
see more strikes. And so that's exactly what we're seeing.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
They've got a right to strike, and they've got a
damn good right to ask for some more money.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
They do an amazing.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Job, Mike. Should it have taken a day of disruption
for kids learning? We all know what state the kids
learning is. We need to improve it. Disruption in the
classroom for Brian Roach to confirm, they need to re
visit the offer. So striking has.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
Worked well, I think fundamentally, I guess the first thing
I would say, and I acknowledge that the very good
work that teachers do do and I don't think that
would be in this dispute. But I mean, look, they
had six days negotiation and then they walked away. I mean,
give it a fear go at the negotiating table first,
and I would suggest six days is probably not a
fear go. There's a choice of disruption over dialogue, you know,
(12:32):
And you know, i'd recommend that they consider going back
to the negotiating table, sit down and have a conversation.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
But quhen you've got the government that has scrapped their
pay equity claim and prevented them from being able to
take that claim, you've got to expect a strong reaction
like this. They're rightfully angry that they've not only had
one percent, but their pay equity claim has been chucked
out by this government as well.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Jinny, if I asked you, and this is not a
trick question or the SMAMI question, but if I asked
you of how much a teacher that's been in education
for say ten years, how much would they earn?
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Well, we start on about sixty five sixty seven roughly,
and so midpoint i'm guessing would be below one hundred thousand.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
So it's under one hundred thousand.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
So basically we're hearing that teachers are worth less and
nurses no.
Speaker 5 (13:27):
Look, I couldn't comment on what the average wage is.
I think it's about one hundred to one hundred and
maybe five slash ten thousand. You know, it's like other
people will make a judgment ester whether that's enough or
not enough. I mean, it's not bad in the context
of what the average salary is across the country. But again,
you know, i'd recommend go back to the table, but
(13:49):
I would also just point out, you know that there
are other ways that we have showing our support the teachers.
The teachers registration is getting paid and we've got a
minister that's absolutely backing them in regards to For years
and years across successive governments, teachers parents have been crying
out for learning support, investment in the classrooms. We've had
(14:11):
a once in a lifetime increase in investment nine hundred
hours and hours learning support building up to two million hours.
So those are other ways that we have shown out.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
But this is these guys have given national have given
board directors an eighty percent increase in salary, and they
won't they give teachers one percent.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
I mean that just shows where they're priority.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
I'll ask you a quick question on this journey because
i'd love to get your opinion on this. Is this
a fail for Public Service Commissioner Sir Brian Roach, Because
I mean suddenly they strike and he says we're going
back to the table.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Well, what I will say is that it's interesting that
we've now got him. We've now got him across all
of those That was never the case that was a
direct relationship between the Minister and the Chief executive. So
they've brought in Brian Roach as a sort of a
manager to make sure. What I'm estimating is it's the
government's way of controlling exactly what payofers are provided to
(15:02):
those different organizations. So it's another way that this government
have got the reins on minimizing the amount of pay
that those hard working people in the frontline giving public
services like teachers are getting.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Right, let's move to the Carnival's over. Trevor Mallard is
coming home from his post as Irish ambassador four months
earlier after being replaced by Winston Peters. The Foreign Minister
says the former politicians like Mallard should not be at
diplomatic posting. Oh my gosh, Mike Butterick, is this a
little bit petty by Winston Peters or does he have
(15:36):
a point four months to go? Surely he should have
just waded it out.
Speaker 5 (15:42):
No, Look, I mean, ultimately that's a question for Winston Peters.
I do know that Angela. I think it's Hassan Sharp.
I may have said the name wrong. She'll be fantastic too,
She'll be a fantastic ambassador. Keeap of experience, I mean,
I guess. Look, it's important that we are represented by
very experienced and qualified diplomats. Because they're there to represent
(16:04):
our country and our interests. But I think it's important
that we don't see the president where government can come
and get elected and effectively set diplomas from the other side.
So it is important that we get the right people there.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Well, that's exactly what he's done. Just absolutely did that.
But I mean, did Treva Mallard do anything wrong. I'm
not the world's greatest fan of Trevor Mallard's and I
don't think he should have got the post in the
first place. I have to put it out there, but
did he do anything wrong?
Speaker 4 (16:33):
By all accounts, it seems like it just came completely
out of the blue. So, you know, I don't know
whether Winston's just trying to curry favor with some of
his supporters that didn't like what, you know, Trevor did
over the COVID occupation. That's been one theory that's been
floating around. But from all accounts, Trevor was doing an
incredibly good job over there and representing New Zealand very well,
(16:56):
and so it seems to be quite petty that this
has happened. I mean, if Winston really had a problem
with Trevor Mallard, in that position. Why didn't he make
that determination when he first became the minister as opposed?
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Right now here is getting.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Paid out for the full term? Will he be paid
out for the full time?
Speaker 4 (17:12):
I understand it's got a contract in place, so I
guess that's up for Harman, you know, whoever is negotiating
was to determine what he does with that. But it
does seem like it's politically motivated.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Yeah, especially when Mike Buttery just said it doesn't want
political appointing.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
Yeah, that's right, but I think we do need to
be mindful that we don't sit there president.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
But I mean that mean Jerry's not going to go
to London, I think.
Speaker 5 (17:35):
But it was well publicized in a public forum, Driven
Millard made some comments that you know, perhaps transgressed diploma
normal diplomacy, so you know, but again it's a decision
for Winston Peters.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
I do.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
I love to say this.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
I was on with a Mark make sure, which we've
got withst and Peter's doing something else, and they're in
the cabinet together like they're part of government, like it's
a collective responsibility. I love the way this government completely
designed their coalition partners when it's them like that you're
actually in the same governments, Like, oh, that's a matter
for Winston Peters, nothing to do with me here.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
It is a bit weird, is that weird? Yeah? And
the Prime Minister doesn't know what's going on.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
No, And it just it's like it seems like Winston
Peter's and David Seymour can do whatever they want and
the Prime Minister in National have got nothing to do
with it.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
And it just seems crazy to me.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
They even danced together your your leader in.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
The end, like it was more vigorously dancing than Chippy.
I do believe I saw that video.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
They both look pretty damn ordinary to me as dancers,
you know, they they've changed the opinion of people and
white people dancing. The government will hold councils being liable
for fixing building issues when the buildings builder building companies
go under Jinny, do you agree with us? I know
Chippy is quite a warm on it.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Look, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
But the real riskers for those those people, right, you
want to make sure who's carrying that liability and we
don't want to see a rebate.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Repeat of leaky houses. Where you saw.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Either people in apartments and Wellington heaps affected here in Wellington,
or or a townhouse with that cletting where we went
up that that would leak afterwards and then huge costs
in terms of determining who was liable for that. So
it just needs to be really clear where that liability
sits and to make sure there's good consumer protection in place.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
My concern on this, Mike is that it's a really
good idea and Cross Party are talking about it, but
the devil's in the detail. How soon will we get
that detail?
Speaker 5 (19:30):
Yeah, you're right, Nick, the devil will always be in
the detail. But look in terms of time frame, I
couldn't give you a stare on that, but you know
i'd point out the New Zealand certified builders have said
this is the most significant change in the building industry
in a generation and it has It's been a long
time coming, and you know, we all know the pressure
(19:52):
that the council was under in terms of those rates
and the costs and the rate payers. There has been
a bit of reticence from councils, which you know, if
it goes wrong, it falls back on the council and
it goes downhill and ends up the rate payers paying
the bill.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Right, I've got a quick question for you both because
I've wanted to do the story for a while and
that's coming up in the next half hour. Mike Butter
it when you go out for dinner, right, do you
get a doggie bag at the end if you haven't
finished your meal? Would you take get a doggy bag?
Speaker 5 (20:24):
No? I don't go out for dinner very often. They can. No.
I tend to eat everything that's in front of me.
I'm on a seafood, seafood, I eat it.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
I said that. I said beforehand. He comes from a
farming background. They will never take a doggy bag. O.
Jinny Anderson definitely, would you take a doggy back?
Speaker 4 (20:42):
And I'm going to give a shout out to Kasing
and Jackson Street, which is just an my office and
for Tony because they give the biggest meals for about
twenty seven dollars.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
One dash would.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Feed three people, so if we order two, it does
the family for the next day as well, and even
the kids get it in the lunch. So Kiseing and
Jackson Street best value for money. I've seen Asian restaurant
really good. Yeah, does this last Vietnamese combo and it's bwayo.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
There you go. I was right. I'm celebrating twenty nine
minutes to twelve. Thank you Mike Butterick, Thank you Ginny Anderson,
and thank you for the coffee. It is gorgeous. It's
actually the best coffee. I please to hear that You're
my favorite now.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
Day.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
You know who you know who brought me a cheese gone?
Guests who brought me a cheese gone when they came
in to do an interview with me, No coast to
Chippy just written a book.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Grant grant for your brought me a cheese gone?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
How nice coffin. The coffee is the best coffee of
it and I'm going to take it with me and
heat it up later as my dog. You beg.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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