August 21, 2025 • 32 mins
On Friday Faceoff, panellists Maddy Burgess-Smith and Iona Pannett responded to comments by Finance Minister Nicola Willis that those criticising the economy are 'merchants of misery' and 'doomsayers'.
They also discussed the OCR rate cut, teacher strikes, the $80-million cost blowout for Wellington's sludge plant and whether the age limit for Working Holiday Visas should be raised.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said b.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Wellington's official week interview.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
It's Friday facearf with Kudov Property Management, a better rental
experience for all visit Qudovic dot cot on. It's head
started by.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Friday face off, always the highlight of the week for me.
We get a couple of guests and we have a chat.
We look about look at all the things that we've
talked about during the week or the news stories and
get them to give us their tape. Today we have
outgoing Wellington City councilor I own a panet two thousand
and seven that seems like a lifetime ago. I own
(00:57):
a Welcome to the show. Explain to our listeners why
you decided because I saw you four months ago in
the street. Would have been four or five months ago.
You said, Nick, I'm thinking about not running it. I said,
of course, you're rerunning.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
More than a nank. Thank you for the invite to
come on the show. Well, I'm sure my enemies and
opponents will rejoice. I'm hanging out my political hat. Six
terms I think is enough. It's time to do some
other things. But enormous privilege to save this amazing city.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Has it got any relevance to the Greens no longer
having you as a Greenie?
Speaker 3 (01:34):
No, I'm just leaving. I mean, I think it would
be fair to say that the politics have been challenging,
but they always are. So yeah, it's just time to
go off and do something else.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Was it that bad an experience over the last three years?
It was pretty bad silence, Yeah, yeah it was.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
But look, there's but you know, I'm an optimist. There's
also been some great times too. We've made some amazing decisions.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
So it took your toll on you. I mean I
can see you, people can't see you. You're emotional. No no, no, no, no.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
No, I'm not not. Yeah, and of course it takes
your toll. And I mean anyone who goes through the
political process that sometimes like being assaulted and then sometimes
it's like being hugged.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
But you've been there long enough you would surely that
would just be taken in your stride. You've been there.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but the zone is so long, you know,
there z only so much. But really it is just
time to do some other cool things.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Okay, our other guest and we will come back to obviously.
Our other guest on the show today is senior consultant
at Iron Duke Partners, Maddie Burgessbuth. Now, Maddie, we've had
you on the show a couple of times before, is
it once or twice?
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Yeah, it's always a good time.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Okay, you've got some big news to you're leaving.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
I'm also leaving, and you know, quite a different point
in my career, but I'm hitting overseas as a lot
of keys my age do. I'm going to Oxford University.
I've got a scholarship to go over there and do
my MBA, which is super exciting and yeah, definitely not
some thing I oversaw in my future, but here we go.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I mean, a scholarship to do an MBA at Oxford
University is pretty big.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Yeah, and it's particularly big for me, like I'm a
first member of my family to finish school. And I
just think New Zealand's the sort of place where, you know,
we do still have a real meritocracy and you work
hard and if people invest in you and a bit
of luck along the way, like an upbringing in New
Zealand and starting your career here, I think it can
take you anywhere.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
People often talk about you in high regard, saying you
are going to be a politician. Is this the first
step on that?
Speaker 4 (03:42):
I don't think it is. I think it's the first
step in working out who I am and what I
stand for and what I would have to bring to
other people. And I think, you know, I'm pretty critical
of people who just start out and they go straight
into politics and the student politicians and then go here
and there, and they really don't have anything to bring
to the table. You know, they've never been in the arena,
they've never employed people, or you know, they've never had
(04:04):
to take big risks. And I think it's really important
that anyone who thinks they want to represent others has had,
you know, real skin in the game.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Are you excited.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
I'm nervous. I'm really nervous. Yeah I am. I'm really
close with my family and see a lot of them
all the time. So it's it's a long way and
it's it's going to be hard. It's the best and
brightest and somehow a little on me from Palme too.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Good on you. You're not little old, you you're big,
you You're you're a star. You're a star of the future. Right,
Let's get into some topics. Let's start our first topic.
This morning, as many predicted, the Reserve Bank Bank cut
the ocr by twenty five basis points to three percent,
some committee members wanted to go bigger. I own it.
Is it enough? I mean, you're involved in the whole
(04:48):
world of trying to keep things together and keep things going.
Was that enough? And will it make any difference?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
No, although every bit of relief obviously will will help.
You know, Medi and I've both got mortgages, and congratulations
Medi too. That's amazing news.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
The ugly things I wish people had told me they suck.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Yeah, so that helpful. But look, it's a little bit
possibly I'm feeling a bit jaded. You know, the politicians
argue over what the rate of inflation should be, or
you know, how much the OCI should be, when it's
not actually the real point. The real point is about
how we text people and how we actually literally give people, everyone, everyone,
the chance to get a hit.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Can I just quickly ask you if, because I have
joined this views on it apparently, how tough is it
out there? Is it as bad as what everyone's making out.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
I think it's pretty bad and Wellington. I think a
lot of people are doing it tough, but there will
always be people who are lucky and survive.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Right, Maddie, was it enough the o C?
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Yeah, absolutely not. They should have gone five basis point five.
They should have really shocked the economy. I think they've
become really risk averse. They had some real kind of
failures and challenges coming out of COVID, and now I
worry that they've just kind of scared off. The economy
needs a real hit.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
They said that they should have gone lower last time.
I mean, what does that tell you.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
There's some really smart people who are meant to be
working these things out, and they've got a lot more
information on the economy than the rest of us do.
And yeah, you'd think they'd be making those kind of
courageous decisions that are in line with a lot of
what the advice is telling us.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
You work in an organization that persuades people that the
right way of doing things, and what was their view?
What was your office view of it?
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Well?
Speaker 4 (06:31):
I think you know, when we think about the ocr
we always think about it in terms of interest rates.
So everyday people, how are they feeling in their back pocket,
and so sure we represent like a lot of the
big end of town and big business, but what the
ocr really needed to do was make the smaller end
of town, just every single one of us who walk
up and down Lampton Key feel like we can get
our wallet out. And it hasn't done that. So it's
(06:51):
been a bit of a failure or a bit of
a stop start over the last few months.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Can I ask you, and you don't have to answer this,
because I'm just curious. I mean, you've done the numbers.
You both say you've got mortgages. You've gotten the numbers.
Doesn't change anything for me because I'm fixed. But what
will you say? Will it be worthwhile you go out
and spend more.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
Yeah, for me, it will be. And I mean, I'm
going into an interesting situation where I'm going back to
be a student with a hefty sort of a mortgage.
But for me, it's about five hundred dollars a fortnite
from the rate that I'm currently on to what i'll
probably if I was to refix today, it'll be five
hundred dollars a fortnite. That's a lot. That's that's twenty
five thousand a year.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
That's a lot of money. It's fifty grand because if
you pay your taxes, you've got to earn fifty grand
to pay twenty five hour fifty cent the dollar if
you round it out, isn't it So that's really what
it is.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
I still not enough, so they need to do more.
And look, my focus would be on income support for
vulnerable New Zealanders. Right the dollars basically poverty wages, right.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
Hey, and we are we are just talking about people
who own homes to owners point right, So, like that's
just those of us who do have mortgages and whose
mortgages are coming off soon. There's a heap of spenders
in the economy who aren't in that situation.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
So that doesn't help them at all.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Doesn't help the renters because as you know, they're not
going to to get a reduction in the rent probably.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
No, So it doesn't help the economy.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
You don't think it helps pockets of our economy absolutely,
Like it's really important. It's probably the strongest lever that
we've got, but there are those who will be left behind.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
I want to ask your opinion, both of your opinion
on the finance Minister Nicola, when I spoke after the
OCR announcement saying we needed to stop listening to the
merchants of misery and doomstairs who are talking down the economy.
She's looking at me here and come and that it
sort of came at the same day that she was
announcing this a whole lot of liquidations and a whole
companies in trouble. I ownA what did you think when
(08:41):
you heard those comments?
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Kindly, it was a bit time deaf. I think Verit
Johnson's column this morning in the Post was spot on,
you know, just talking about the impact on small businesses,
you know, particularly in Auckland. Yeah, and we've just got
too high unemployment. People are you know, like it's like
you're lucky if you can get a block of cheese
for ten dollars right at the supermarket. So I don't
(09:05):
think that's quite help. And saying that to be fair
to the minister, you know, you can talk yourself into
a hole, so we do need to be positive as well.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Do you think we have talked ourselves in a hole?
You're sitting around that table that council. Do you think
we are talking to ourselves in a whole? Do you
think we've just sort of attacked you guys too much.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Oh No, I mean I think the objective indicators are
there that we're struggling. But I think you do have
to think about your mindset a little bit individually and collectively.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Maddie, do you think the government really understands what's happening
around New Zealand? Do you think they've got their finger
on the pulse?
Speaker 4 (09:42):
Yeah, heat better than Wellington does. I mean we're in
a two stage recession, right, you go down South? Right now?
Christ you just going gangbusters. Queen's down beds are full.
Unemployment in the cargo's currently two point two percent, right,
So there are parts of our economy that are absolutely humming.
Why don't we get to hear from theirs those business voices?
It seems like we hear from the same people with
the same grapes over and over again. Dairy price beat price,
(10:05):
key we fruit price all at record highs. There are
parts of our economy doing really blue and well that's.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
The converse argument, though, isn't it. Farming is doing well.
You're talking, you're pointing at your finger at all the
areas with that that reflect farming. So under the national
government course, farming is going to do well.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
It's these are global prices that we're talking about, right,
so people pay more.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
How does the global meat prices or dairy prices affect
a person living in Cannon's Creek right now?
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Part of it is about growing the economy on the whole, Right,
So those people who are making huge amounts of money,
they aren't making other investments which will kind of flow
through the rest of our economy. But Owner makes a
good point, right when we are in a two stage recession,
everyone's going to feel it quite differently. But the point around,
you know, do we need to stop kind of getting
ourselves into this funk by just talking about it over
and over? Nicholas is right, it's not everyone who's struggling
(10:56):
right now. Parts of the economy are going really well,
but we're just not shining any sort of a light
on it.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I Owner, can she make as Finance Minister any decisions
that can help the economy grow faster?
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Well, first of all, I just questioned the assumption around
economic growth. That is another long conversation, right, you know,
we've got growth fuels, climate change, But I think the
problem is the way that we've accepted our economy over
the last thirty years is that finance ministers have very
very few few tools in their toolbox. And actually that's
(11:29):
the conversation we need to be having about what else
they can do then, you know, worry about where inflation is.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Sitting Friday, face off, I own a panet. Lovely to
see you again, Inner, it's been a while. I mean
you are now pulling out so we can have you
on the show. We can't have people that are actually
standing on the show. We can't promote anybody, so it's
great to have you here and many Burgess Smith has
just made the announcement live on our show, so we've
got the scoop on it that she is heading to
(11:57):
do an MBA at Oxford University in a full scholarship.
I mean incredible and incredible money. If you had to
pay for it, you could no one could aford.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
No way, no way. And that is something I would
say to a lot of people. You know, when you
meet people with these like flash expensive bits of paper,
that's what they are. They're expensive bits of paper and
they're either funded that themselves or someone took a chance
on them.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
And someone's taking a chance on you, and that's fantastic.
Let's talk about contact energy. They posted a forty one
percent profit increase, while the same time Consumer New Zealand
said there was four hundred thousand ki We families struggling
to pay their powable in the past year. Is that fair?
I mean, really is that? Keeping an eye on everything? Maybe?
(12:38):
What are your thoughts when you read that?
Speaker 4 (12:40):
It is a lot, But they're a private company, right,
and private companies have to make profits, otherwise they wouldn't
bother being in the game that they're in. But that
is quite a large profit. You just need to look
at what else is happening in the sector. Right, So
there's a huge amount of renewable generation about to come online,
which is basically saying they've got to make huge investments
in the coming years to create more energy because New
Zealand needs it. And so yeah, sure some years you've
(13:01):
got to hold a little bit more than you would usually.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
But that's, you know, ridiculous amount of profit, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
Oh, for something like energy, which all of us have
to purchase, we don't have a choice. Yeah, it is
a big profit.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
And governments I own a planet. Governments own fifty one
percent of three of the major gentile companies.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
So we just need to think about energy security and
that people almost have a right to it, you know,
and particularly as we've talked about, we're going through such
a tough times. You know, it's outrageous that many people
can't afford to pay the bills. There's also a problem
around infrastructure, right, we're not very good at managing that
in our country. So in a sense, they if they
are really investing it in more good green infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
That is the renewable energy.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Yeah, so that's okay, but we've got to do something
about energy security. I can't have elderly people freezing.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Do you both in the situation where like when I
grew up, you turned the light off as you went
out of the room, or you didn't have a heater
going when the room wasn't used, or do you leave
the heater is going all the time, And do you
know not worry about it so much? You look at
me like I'm a you know from another planet. You know.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
There's there's bits and pieces like that, And I think
the energy eke energy cons fashion throat to whoever they
may be. They've done a lot of work to get
better heating into people's homes, right, because a heat pump's
a lot more efficient than an oil heater or a
fan heater. But there's a huge amount of what i'd
call like energy literacy that needs to go on. For example,
it only costs you a couple of cents an hour
to have an electric blanket on, So so opt out
(14:32):
of your heater in the room and get an electric
blanket instead.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
So what does it cost you for electric blanket?
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Only a few cents an hour?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Does it really?
Speaker 4 (14:38):
Yeah, it'd be less than ten cents twenty cents if
you left it on all night.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
I'm going to start leaving more again.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Risk And you know, the World Health Organization will say
that we should be around twenty degrees right, So you
know we I think, well, people of our age neck
we were kind of brought up to think that you
had to be cold. We shouldn't be cold, we should
be warmer in our homes.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Well, I wasn't grown up, didn't grow up trying to
be cold. But I was definitely told to yell down
if I had walked out of the room and didn't
turn the light off.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Yeah, which is stupid.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
You can spend a lot of money just leaving appliances
on right, so hopefully no one's doing that.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
I came from a family of three girls. We were
short showers and dad will come in and shut it off,
get out of there. Two minutes, two minutes of hot water?
Really yeah, see I came long showers. They get you.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Do they? Okay? All right, I'll go to another topic.
Around twenty thousand PPTA members walked off the job on Wednesday.
I'm talking about secondary schools teachers. Obviously, after rejecting a
three percent pay rise over the next three years, which
was basically one percent a year. As we both we
all know and our listeners know, the Service Commissioner Public
(15:43):
Service Commissioner Sir Brian Roach has said they will now
look at a revised order. Maddie. Couldn't have he done
that earlier, couldn't have this negotiation. Why do we have
to have a strike. And also someone texts me today
that the Wellington girls I think are on a teacher
only day. So that's two days of disruption for our
learners like you.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
And we go through the every single time. You know,
there's never been a negotiation that's gone smoothly. But again,
both parties have to be at the table and the
teacher there after one point seven billion dollars over four years.
That's the equivalent of about sixty four thousand dollars per
every secondary school teacher that we have in this country.
So and to your point at the other end, to Brian,
(16:26):
Roach could have probably come to the table with a
better deal to start. But this is the beginning of
the dance. But I don't understand is when people like
teachers go into these occupations, those salaries are pretty clear
to you, right.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
And every year you're surely they should be able to
stick with the cost of living thing and work it out.
I mean, I mean, of course something.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Closer to inflation, but they're certainly not asking for that,
and they certainly haven't been offered that. And I think
that again, that's how a negotiation works. You'll meet somewhere
in the middle eventually.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I mean, and I took umbrage to this because I
think professional people shouldn't strike am I out of am
I from a different era or something.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
You clearly are Look, they have the right to strike,
and they deserve to be paid well when they're doing
a good job, because teaching is a really, really, really
important profession and they shouldn't have to accept low pay.
You know, like my sid think, well, you know, once
upon a times a six figure salary would have been
seen as really low, right, but you.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Know mean really high.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
No, sorry, sorry, really high. Sorry, And now like you're
kind of thinking.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
I should run for counsel.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Apologies. But now, like if you look at just all
the costs that you have to bear, that that is
really difficult. And once you get to a certain level
of seniority, you don't get any more money unless you
go to the principle. So you could be on that
salary for a really long time.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
The average New Zealand household, so that's that's two of
you in there. They're making one hundred and twelve thousand
dollars a year, so if that was two teacher salaries,
you're well above that. So they are not horrifically paid.
But I can see where some of the challenge comes from,
and that they do have the most important job in
our economy in my opinion, So you just have to
find that.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Caught in the nurses or policeman.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Ye, we'd go there. Look, you get where you get
where I'm coming from, right, Like the next generation of
our learners like that. That matters, and it's really hard
to achieve anything else in this economy if we don't
get that part right.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Can you remember your best your favorite teacher?
Speaker 4 (18:21):
Yes, I can, mister mccarthin Palms North Girls High School.
He taught me design and visual communication, a skill I
have never ever used. But he was an educator, a.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Pet I'll ask you that you as well. Can you
remember your favorite teacher?
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Yeah? Yeah, Susan Matthews for.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
History, missus Armstrong commercial practice for me at Tarber College.
We all know our favorite teacher. That was the moral
of the story, wasn't it?
Speaker 4 (18:44):
And every listener will too, right, and it's often someone
who didn't. You can't remember what they taught you, but
you can remember what they excited in you.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
You can remember your worst teachers too.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Oh yeah, and but you can't remember the in betweens
you know's.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Of which there were dozens lots of them.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yes, let's talk about another project that your city council
I owner put together, plan to have this grandiose sludge.
Oh gosh, we were going to be world leaders again,
and another cost blowout eighty three million dollars. Of course,
we're talking about the sludge plant at MOA point, I
(19:19):
own it. Your council is synonymous with cost blowouts. Did
we really need to do the glory version of the
sludge project? We could. We have done it cheaper and
nicer and better.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
First of all, just to take a balanced view, some
projects have been developed on time and under budget, So
we do we do it sometimes. Well, the town hall
on this one has been tricky.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Is the one you brought it on to be?
Speaker 3 (19:49):
The library?
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Yeah, th and key. I know you won't like it,
but you know we got it done. So I think
there was a lot of risk in this project. It's
the first in the country. But if you don't want
pooh trucks literal poo truck literally trucks, something had to
be done.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Okay, So do it have to be Who's who was
the mayor and the council when they planned this when
it got put into can you remember.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Must have been Foster? Okay, yeah, yeah, So look, look,
I acknowledge that that is a devastating amount of money.
We're going to be paying for that for a long time.
But our waste systems the twentieth century, they have to
move into the twenty first century. We're a laggard on
waste in spite of some of us working very hard
to change that. So we're going to have to suck
it up this time and then the next step is
(20:35):
to get our organics picked up from people's stoor step
and we're going to have a much better city as
a results.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Can you give the next council that come into Wellington
City Council's position in a couple of months time some
advice on how to get things under budget?
Speaker 3 (20:50):
So I think we need to keep strengthening our project
management capability. So I did support a call for a
review because we just need to be learning all the time.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
You know.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Local government delivers big infrastructure and we need to be
really really good at it and saying that it is
not easy and there are lots of factors which we
don't have roll over you know, like the price of
steel for example.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Maddie Burgess Smith, you have just said earlier on the
show that you are now paying rates am youngest rate payer,
lots of them, right, youngest rate payer? And well, how
does it make you feel that these cost over runs
keep happening and happening because it's straight on your bill.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
Well, the sludge one, it's not straight on my bill.
It's an additional bill. Like I got a letter in
the mail saying the council can't organize the piss up
in the brewery and you're gonna have to pay for it,
and paraphrasing, but you know, another four to five hundred
dollars a year because the council hasn't made investments when
they probably needed to, and so you just get smacked
at the end, like it's really frustrating.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
So what part of the not being on your bill?
Have I got wronged? It's on your bill this extra
but it's still I got.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
I got a whole letter explaining it to me. But
again it didn't It didn't dissipate the rage by any means.
It's an additional surcharge that I now play on top
of well, you know, in addition to it all comes
out together. But I know exactly what that project cost
me as a ratepayer, which is nearly five hundred bucks.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
So we do need to look at the cost of
not taking action too, of which there is one you know,
that means more ets charges, It means a bigger landfill,
and it means reputational damage, which is your specialty. You know,
if you want to be a green city, you have
to invest astrure.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Apart from who wants to be a green city?
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Okay, maybe I've got the wrong audience. Yeah, particular point,
but actually a lot of Wellingtonians do. And it is
a bit embarrassing that we have such antiquated waste systems.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Because we haven't made the decisions we needed to earlier.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
No, because people kept complaining about rates. So we you know,
we are starting to spend more money now, but it
costs right.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
So once again you didn't answer my question. Who are
in this room apart from you wants to have all
these nice green things that Way green labor yep. But
I'm saying that everything that the greens are wanting cycle
Way and the Flashes Pooh place in town isn't going
to actually make life any better? Is it?
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Some people will disagree with you, Nick Maddie.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Is are you a fan of A I am?
Speaker 4 (23:17):
I use AI more than I use Google? Yeah constantly.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
You know I've started to too as well, are you?
I own it? No.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
I think we should read and write think for ourselves.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
You and Adam should have a coffee sometime. He thinks
the same way, Adam. But it's the future. People got
to understand. I own a pant Maddie's Burgess Smith on Friday,
face off. I don't want to talk about dental I
don't want to talk about Let's talk about whether you
should use AI, Maddie and writing a CV.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
So there's an employment agency that came out and said
that you can miss out on jobs, your dream jobs
because you use AI in your cvs. Now, I say,
use AI in your CVS and take use it to
your advantage. What is your view?
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Yeah, my approach on AI used in something like that.
You use AI for the first eighty percent or the
last twenty percent. You don't use it for one hundred percent.
So either it gets you started and then you give
it the color it needs at the end so that
it sounds like Nick applying for this job, or you
use it, you know, to you start it and then
it polishes it for you at the end. Where people
(24:23):
are going wrong is they're just regurgitating these robots sounding
cvs and just kind of spraying and praying. You know.
There are some situations now where people can apply for
up to twenty thirty forty jobs an hour because they're
not actually having to put in the work, and an
employer can see that because it doesn't sound like you.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
I Owa, what do you think do you think that
you should use AI in it? I don't think you
should send any CV without AI checking it out before
you've seen it myself a lot.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Look, I mean, technology always has its uses, but you
have to be careful. Why I'm teaching my son make
sure that he can write properly, because otherwise, how do
you know if the machine is right? So it's putting
a lot of trust in But I do think we
need to have the skills ourselves and it's not kind
of authentic if you're getting a machine to do it.
(25:12):
Because and also, of course, the employment implications are very significant.
If we get rid of all these jobs, either we
have to replace them or we've got a lot of
unemployed people.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Do you reckon that Wellington City Council has embraced AI enough.
Do you think they're doing stuff with AI to lessen
the costs and speed up things?
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Not so much at the moment. I don't think one
of my colleagues is a proponent, but you know, it
needs to be thought through quite carefully. There needs to
be some policy and deep thinking about it.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
Really also risky. You get left behind very much though.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
You see, if I was mere of Wellington, AI would
be cut and slashing and.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Well, I suppose what you could do is have AI counselors.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Gosh, that's a good idea. Why did I think of
that one?
Speaker 3 (25:58):
That's right? Are we super cheap?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Well? Okay, now something that obviously has been come out
and to be fair, but more I've talked about it
in the street, more people like it. A tourist company
says that we should lift New Zealand's working holiday age
limit from thirty five to fifty, allowing anybody that wants
to come out here basically up to fifty to further
(26:20):
boost our economy. Many what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 4 (26:23):
Don't stop at fifty, go higher. I think it's an
awesome idea.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
You know.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
I've got parents, young parents simil age to unit, really
young and they didn't do Louis. They had an adventure
and that was me. They would question whether or not
that was an adventure, but they're at the perfect time
of their life to go and do something for them
and for also for someone else. Go pick grapes or
would they do it? Yeah, I think they would. I
think they would, and I think a lot of New
Zealanders would go abroad and do it. We need to
(26:48):
work out do people have that same culture overseas to
come here and do it?
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Okay, I know what are your thoughts on that you've
just given up? You have just your kids are growing
up and you've just given up your chain and ball
at the city council. Your free woman. Now what do
you want to do? Would you like to go and
live in the south of France for a couple of
years late?
Speaker 3 (27:08):
That actually is my plan to go and live in
Paris because I'm lucky enough to have Irish passport. But seriously,
why would we be discriminating on the basis of age.
You know, people in their fifties now are very young
and healthy. So and I agree, actually go highs, go high, go.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Ninety any age you want to go and bring people
into New Zealand if they want to come and work
in here, and what do you want to make a contribution?
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Good know how to use sunscreen in this climate?
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Would they actually make a contribution to the city though,
to the countrydic, I think.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
They would I mean, if current people under thirty five
are making a contribution on working holiday visas, why is
someone who's at fifty five not. In fact, that person
at fifty five is probably in quite a different.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Life stage and probably cop more money.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
Exactly, they'll come and they'll do their three months stint somewhere,
and then they'll travel for three months and they'll spend
big and that's what we need.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Well, you're not in your head for that.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
I just think it's a no brainer. The need have
a discussion.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
And it's a really unique point of difference right now.
We have to remember that we're in a global market
place for tourism, right we are competing with the entire world.
What's our one shiny point of difference.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
That you can come out here at sixty and still
get a job and go working for a couple of years.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
And we've got to remember the people that do those
jobs out in our regions are the jobs we've decided
we don't want to do. Otherwise we wouldn't have the
scheme at all.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
And also, people aren't having so many children, so we
need more people coming here.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Okay, open the doors, let them.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
In the Friday facet than.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
On a panet. Before you give me your hots and knots,
I want to know exactly what and when and how
you made your decision. I'm just trying to get to
the bottom of the culture of the city council. When
did you decide, why did you decide to no longer stand.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
About a year ago? And for the reasons I've given you.
Not all politicians link.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Okay, I don't think you would ever tell me a
lie or more the people are willing to lie. Absolutely,
the green thing must have had some effect on you
because you were such loyal I mean you are you
the flag bearer of greens. In my mind, if I
said someone said to me, give me someone to interview
that's green, green, green, and green, I'd say I own
a pane.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Well, thank you, yeah, but no, No, it's time to
make a contribution in another way, nationally or internationally, in
some little, you know, little way. On one hundred and
sixty eight hours a week.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
You could cut the curiosity in this room with a knife.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Hots and knots please then, miss.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Right, Well, I like to be feared of the government.
Another step closer to closing down the greyhound racing industry.
Good on them, like it's disgusting. Yep, it just shouldn't
be allowed. Those animals are wonderful and they should be
treasured rather than raced. And in the absence of critical commentary,
any money on defense, I believe in starving them. Have money.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
You know that you're not hot.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
It's definitely not hot.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Iron a Pana, thank you. Come on, Maddie, give us
your hots and knots hot.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Wellington has got to be the food capital of New
Zealand right now. Burger Wellington, I've only had six. I'm
embarrassed by that number. I need to pump that up
over the weekend, your beer Varna, this weekend, food festival
next weekend. Like it does really feel like there's good
vibrancy in the city right now, and I'm getting nods
around the table. And then the knot is that I'm
leaving Wellington and I'm saying goodbye to that for a
(30:26):
period and it's going to be missed.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
I can't believe that you've had six burgers in your life,
let alone six and Wellington.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
Yeah, six and Wellington. They broad spectrum like one was
a two and another was at twelve. So some people
get too creative a with their burgers.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, I agree. So I owner, you're
going to have a burger before you before you finish, council,
are you going to go around and support have a burger?
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Yeah, that's a good reminder. It just has to be vegetarian,
so humbly they've got creative there.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Oh there's lots of vegetarian.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
People complain about Burger Wellington, say that it's overdone. It's
nine million dollars into the Wellington economy in August and
I think that's something worth celebrating.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Okay, I won't argue with you. I mean I want
to leave on a positive I want you to leave
the show on a positive note. Just give us your
best one, just quickly.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
Oh best one so far. Charlie Nobles, Oh I know
that you. Yeah, Charlie Noble is really good.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Okay, everything Charlie Nobles does is very good, isn't it? Yeah,
thank you both, Maddie. I really do want to wish
you all the very very best on I think it's
an incredible achievement for you to get a squit luck
as well.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
It's a bit of luck.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Well, No, it's an incredible achievement. Don't take it as
you know as a negative, it's a positive, extreme positive
scholarship to Oxford University to do an NBA. Maddy Burgessmith,
thank you for coming on the show when you have
and good luck it will keep in touch. I wish
you nothing but good fortune in your future. And thank
you for spending so long on the City Council.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Thank you. Note that's the kindest thing you've ever said
to me. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
I owned the panet. I had to say it to
seven and a half minutes.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
To debating the good, the bad, the ugly and everything
in between. Friday face Off with Quinovic, Wellington's property management experts.
Call eight hundred Quinnovic for more from Wellington Mornings with
Nick Mills. Listen live to news talks It'd be Wellington
from nine am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said b.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Wellington's official week interview.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
It's Friday facearf with Kudov Property Management, a better rental
experience for all visit Qudovic dot cot on. It's head
started by.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Friday face off, always the highlight of the week for me.
We get a couple of guests and we have a chat.
We look about look at all the things that we've
talked about during the week or the news stories and
get them to give us their tape. Today we have
outgoing Wellington City councilor I own a panet two thousand
and seven that seems like a lifetime ago. I own
(00:57):
a Welcome to the show. Explain to our listeners why
you decided because I saw you four months ago in
the street. Would have been four or five months ago.
You said, Nick, I'm thinking about not running it. I said,
of course, you're rerunning.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
More than a nank. Thank you for the invite to
come on the show. Well, I'm sure my enemies and
opponents will rejoice. I'm hanging out my political hat. Six
terms I think is enough. It's time to do some
other things. But enormous privilege to save this amazing city.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Has it got any relevance to the Greens no longer
having you as a Greenie?
Speaker 3 (01:34):
No, I'm just leaving. I mean, I think it would
be fair to say that the politics have been challenging,
but they always are. So yeah, it's just time to
go off and do something else.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Was it that bad an experience over the last three years?
It was pretty bad silence, Yeah, yeah it was.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
But look, there's but you know, I'm an optimist. There's
also been some great times too. We've made some amazing decisions.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
So it took your toll on you. I mean I
can see you, people can't see you. You're emotional. No no, no, no, no.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
No, I'm not not. Yeah, and of course it takes
your toll. And I mean anyone who goes through the
political process that sometimes like being assaulted and then sometimes
it's like being hugged.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
But you've been there long enough you would surely that
would just be taken in your stride. You've been there.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but the zone is so long, you know,
there z only so much. But really it is just
time to do some other cool things.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Okay, our other guest and we will come back to obviously.
Our other guest on the show today is senior consultant
at Iron Duke Partners, Maddie Burgessbuth. Now, Maddie, we've had
you on the show a couple of times before, is
it once or twice?
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Yeah, it's always a good time.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Okay, you've got some big news to you're leaving.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
I'm also leaving, and you know, quite a different point
in my career, but I'm hitting overseas as a lot
of keys my age do. I'm going to Oxford University.
I've got a scholarship to go over there and do
my MBA, which is super exciting and yeah, definitely not
some thing I oversaw in my future, but here we go.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I mean, a scholarship to do an MBA at Oxford
University is pretty big.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Yeah, and it's particularly big for me, like I'm a
first member of my family to finish school. And I
just think New Zealand's the sort of place where, you know,
we do still have a real meritocracy and you work
hard and if people invest in you and a bit
of luck along the way, like an upbringing in New
Zealand and starting your career here, I think it can
take you anywhere.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
People often talk about you in high regard, saying you
are going to be a politician. Is this the first
step on that?
Speaker 4 (03:42):
I don't think it is. I think it's the first
step in working out who I am and what I
stand for and what I would have to bring to
other people. And I think, you know, I'm pretty critical
of people who just start out and they go straight
into politics and the student politicians and then go here
and there, and they really don't have anything to bring
to the table. You know, they've never been in the arena,
they've never employed people, or you know, they've never had
(04:04):
to take big risks. And I think it's really important
that anyone who thinks they want to represent others has had,
you know, real skin in the game.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Are you excited.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
I'm nervous. I'm really nervous. Yeah I am. I'm really
close with my family and see a lot of them
all the time. So it's it's a long way and
it's it's going to be hard. It's the best and
brightest and somehow a little on me from Palme too.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Good on you. You're not little old, you you're big,
you You're you're a star. You're a star of the future. Right,
Let's get into some topics. Let's start our first topic.
This morning, as many predicted, the Reserve Bank Bank cut
the ocr by twenty five basis points to three percent,
some committee members wanted to go bigger. I own it.
Is it enough? I mean, you're involved in the whole
(04:48):
world of trying to keep things together and keep things going.
Was that enough? And will it make any difference?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
No, although every bit of relief obviously will will help.
You know, Medi and I've both got mortgages, and congratulations
Medi too. That's amazing news.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
The ugly things I wish people had told me they suck.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Yeah, so that helpful. But look, it's a little bit
possibly I'm feeling a bit jaded. You know, the politicians
argue over what the rate of inflation should be, or
you know, how much the OCI should be, when it's
not actually the real point. The real point is about
how we text people and how we actually literally give people, everyone, everyone,
the chance to get a hit.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Can I just quickly ask you if, because I have
joined this views on it apparently, how tough is it
out there? Is it as bad as what everyone's making out.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
I think it's pretty bad and Wellington. I think a
lot of people are doing it tough, but there will
always be people who are lucky and survive.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Right, Maddie, was it enough the o C?
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Yeah, absolutely not. They should have gone five basis point five.
They should have really shocked the economy. I think they've
become really risk averse. They had some real kind of
failures and challenges coming out of COVID, and now I
worry that they've just kind of scared off. The economy
needs a real hit.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
They said that they should have gone lower last time.
I mean, what does that tell you.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
There's some really smart people who are meant to be
working these things out, and they've got a lot more
information on the economy than the rest of us do.
And yeah, you'd think they'd be making those kind of
courageous decisions that are in line with a lot of
what the advice is telling us.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
You work in an organization that persuades people that the
right way of doing things, and what was their view?
What was your office view of it?
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Well?
Speaker 4 (06:31):
I think you know, when we think about the ocr
we always think about it in terms of interest rates.
So everyday people, how are they feeling in their back pocket,
and so sure we represent like a lot of the
big end of town and big business, but what the
ocr really needed to do was make the smaller end
of town, just every single one of us who walk
up and down Lampton Key feel like we can get
our wallet out. And it hasn't done that. So it's
(06:51):
been a bit of a failure or a bit of
a stop start over the last few months.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Can I ask you, and you don't have to answer this,
because I'm just curious. I mean, you've done the numbers.
You both say you've got mortgages. You've gotten the numbers.
Doesn't change anything for me because I'm fixed. But what
will you say? Will it be worthwhile you go out
and spend more.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
Yeah, for me, it will be. And I mean, I'm
going into an interesting situation where I'm going back to
be a student with a hefty sort of a mortgage.
But for me, it's about five hundred dollars a fortnite
from the rate that I'm currently on to what i'll
probably if I was to refix today, it'll be five
hundred dollars a fortnite. That's a lot. That's that's twenty
five thousand a year.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
That's a lot of money. It's fifty grand because if
you pay your taxes, you've got to earn fifty grand
to pay twenty five hour fifty cent the dollar if
you round it out, isn't it So that's really what
it is.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
I still not enough, so they need to do more.
And look, my focus would be on income support for
vulnerable New Zealanders. Right the dollars basically poverty wages, right.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
Hey, and we are we are just talking about people
who own homes to owners point right, So, like that's
just those of us who do have mortgages and whose
mortgages are coming off soon. There's a heap of spenders
in the economy who aren't in that situation.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
So that doesn't help them at all.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Doesn't help the renters because as you know, they're not
going to to get a reduction in the rent probably.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
No, So it doesn't help the economy.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
You don't think it helps pockets of our economy absolutely,
Like it's really important. It's probably the strongest lever that
we've got, but there are those who will be left behind.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
I want to ask your opinion, both of your opinion
on the finance Minister Nicola, when I spoke after the
OCR announcement saying we needed to stop listening to the
merchants of misery and doomstairs who are talking down the economy.
She's looking at me here and come and that it
sort of came at the same day that she was
announcing this a whole lot of liquidations and a whole
companies in trouble. I ownA what did you think when
(08:41):
you heard those comments?
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Kindly, it was a bit time deaf. I think Verit
Johnson's column this morning in the Post was spot on,
you know, just talking about the impact on small businesses,
you know, particularly in Auckland. Yeah, and we've just got
too high unemployment. People are you know, like it's like
you're lucky if you can get a block of cheese
for ten dollars right at the supermarket. So I don't
(09:05):
think that's quite help. And saying that to be fair
to the minister, you know, you can talk yourself into
a hole, so we do need to be positive as well.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Do you think we have talked ourselves in a hole?
You're sitting around that table that council. Do you think
we are talking to ourselves in a whole? Do you
think we've just sort of attacked you guys too much.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Oh No, I mean I think the objective indicators are
there that we're struggling. But I think you do have
to think about your mindset a little bit individually and collectively.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Maddie, do you think the government really understands what's happening
around New Zealand? Do you think they've got their finger
on the pulse?
Speaker 4 (09:42):
Yeah, heat better than Wellington does. I mean we're in
a two stage recession, right, you go down South? Right now?
Christ you just going gangbusters. Queen's down beds are full.
Unemployment in the cargo's currently two point two percent, right,
So there are parts of our economy that are absolutely humming.
Why don't we get to hear from theirs those business voices?
It seems like we hear from the same people with
the same grapes over and over again. Dairy price beat price,
(10:05):
key we fruit price all at record highs. There are
parts of our economy doing really blue and well that's.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
The converse argument, though, isn't it. Farming is doing well.
You're talking, you're pointing at your finger at all the
areas with that that reflect farming. So under the national
government course, farming is going to do well.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
It's these are global prices that we're talking about, right,
so people pay more.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
How does the global meat prices or dairy prices affect
a person living in Cannon's Creek right now?
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Part of it is about growing the economy on the whole, Right,
So those people who are making huge amounts of money,
they aren't making other investments which will kind of flow
through the rest of our economy. But Owner makes a
good point, right when we are in a two stage recession,
everyone's going to feel it quite differently. But the point around,
you know, do we need to stop kind of getting
ourselves into this funk by just talking about it over
and over? Nicholas is right, it's not everyone who's struggling
(10:56):
right now. Parts of the economy are going really well,
but we're just not shining any sort of a light
on it.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I Owner, can she make as Finance Minister any decisions
that can help the economy grow faster?
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Well, first of all, I just questioned the assumption around
economic growth. That is another long conversation, right, you know,
we've got growth fuels, climate change, But I think the
problem is the way that we've accepted our economy over
the last thirty years is that finance ministers have very
very few few tools in their toolbox. And actually that's
(11:29):
the conversation we need to be having about what else
they can do then, you know, worry about where inflation is.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Sitting Friday, face off, I own a panet. Lovely to
see you again, Inner, it's been a while. I mean
you are now pulling out so we can have you
on the show. We can't have people that are actually
standing on the show. We can't promote anybody, so it's
great to have you here and many Burgess Smith has
just made the announcement live on our show, so we've
got the scoop on it that she is heading to
(11:57):
do an MBA at Oxford University in a full scholarship.
I mean incredible and incredible money. If you had to
pay for it, you could no one could aford.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
No way, no way. And that is something I would
say to a lot of people. You know, when you
meet people with these like flash expensive bits of paper,
that's what they are. They're expensive bits of paper and
they're either funded that themselves or someone took a chance
on them.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
And someone's taking a chance on you, and that's fantastic.
Let's talk about contact energy. They posted a forty one
percent profit increase, while the same time Consumer New Zealand
said there was four hundred thousand ki We families struggling
to pay their powable in the past year. Is that fair?
I mean, really is that? Keeping an eye on everything? Maybe?
(12:38):
What are your thoughts when you read that?
Speaker 4 (12:40):
It is a lot, But they're a private company, right,
and private companies have to make profits, otherwise they wouldn't
bother being in the game that they're in. But that
is quite a large profit. You just need to look
at what else is happening in the sector. Right, So
there's a huge amount of renewable generation about to come online,
which is basically saying they've got to make huge investments
in the coming years to create more energy because New
Zealand needs it. And so yeah, sure some years you've
(13:01):
got to hold a little bit more than you would usually.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
But that's, you know, ridiculous amount of profit, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
Oh, for something like energy, which all of us have
to purchase, we don't have a choice. Yeah, it is
a big profit.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
And governments I own a planet. Governments own fifty one
percent of three of the major gentile companies.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
So we just need to think about energy security and
that people almost have a right to it, you know,
and particularly as we've talked about, we're going through such
a tough times. You know, it's outrageous that many people
can't afford to pay the bills. There's also a problem
around infrastructure, right, we're not very good at managing that
in our country. So in a sense, they if they
are really investing it in more good green infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
That is the renewable energy.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Yeah, so that's okay, but we've got to do something
about energy security. I can't have elderly people freezing.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Do you both in the situation where like when I
grew up, you turned the light off as you went
out of the room, or you didn't have a heater
going when the room wasn't used, or do you leave
the heater is going all the time, And do you
know not worry about it so much? You look at
me like I'm a you know from another planet. You know.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
There's there's bits and pieces like that, And I think
the energy eke energy cons fashion throat to whoever they
may be. They've done a lot of work to get
better heating into people's homes, right, because a heat pump's
a lot more efficient than an oil heater or a
fan heater. But there's a huge amount of what i'd
call like energy literacy that needs to go on. For example,
it only costs you a couple of cents an hour
to have an electric blanket on, So so opt out
(14:32):
of your heater in the room and get an electric
blanket instead.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
So what does it cost you for electric blanket?
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Only a few cents an hour?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Does it really?
Speaker 4 (14:38):
Yeah, it'd be less than ten cents twenty cents if
you left it on all night.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
I'm going to start leaving more again.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Risk And you know, the World Health Organization will say
that we should be around twenty degrees right, So you
know we I think, well, people of our age neck
we were kind of brought up to think that you
had to be cold. We shouldn't be cold, we should
be warmer in our homes.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Well, I wasn't grown up, didn't grow up trying to
be cold. But I was definitely told to yell down
if I had walked out of the room and didn't
turn the light off.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Yeah, which is stupid.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
You can spend a lot of money just leaving appliances
on right, so hopefully no one's doing that.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
I came from a family of three girls. We were
short showers and dad will come in and shut it off,
get out of there. Two minutes, two minutes of hot water?
Really yeah, see I came long showers. They get you.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Do they? Okay? All right, I'll go to another topic.
Around twenty thousand PPTA members walked off the job on Wednesday.
I'm talking about secondary schools teachers. Obviously, after rejecting a
three percent pay rise over the next three years, which
was basically one percent a year. As we both we
all know and our listeners know, the Service Commissioner Public
(15:43):
Service Commissioner Sir Brian Roach has said they will now
look at a revised order. Maddie. Couldn't have he done
that earlier, couldn't have this negotiation. Why do we have
to have a strike. And also someone texts me today
that the Wellington girls I think are on a teacher
only day. So that's two days of disruption for our
learners like you.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
And we go through the every single time. You know,
there's never been a negotiation that's gone smoothly. But again,
both parties have to be at the table and the
teacher there after one point seven billion dollars over four years.
That's the equivalent of about sixty four thousand dollars per
every secondary school teacher that we have in this country.
So and to your point at the other end, to Brian,
(16:26):
Roach could have probably come to the table with a
better deal to start. But this is the beginning of
the dance. But I don't understand is when people like
teachers go into these occupations, those salaries are pretty clear
to you, right.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
And every year you're surely they should be able to
stick with the cost of living thing and work it out.
I mean, I mean, of course something.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Closer to inflation, but they're certainly not asking for that,
and they certainly haven't been offered that. And I think
that again, that's how a negotiation works. You'll meet somewhere
in the middle eventually.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I mean, and I took umbrage to this because I
think professional people shouldn't strike am I out of am
I from a different era or something.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
You clearly are Look, they have the right to strike,
and they deserve to be paid well when they're doing
a good job, because teaching is a really, really, really
important profession and they shouldn't have to accept low pay.
You know, like my sid think, well, you know, once
upon a times a six figure salary would have been
seen as really low, right, but you.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Know mean really high.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
No, sorry, sorry, really high. Sorry, And now like you're
kind of thinking.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
I should run for counsel.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Apologies. But now, like if you look at just all
the costs that you have to bear, that that is
really difficult. And once you get to a certain level
of seniority, you don't get any more money unless you
go to the principle. So you could be on that
salary for a really long time.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
The average New Zealand household, so that's that's two of
you in there. They're making one hundred and twelve thousand
dollars a year, so if that was two teacher salaries,
you're well above that. So they are not horrifically paid.
But I can see where some of the challenge comes from,
and that they do have the most important job in
our economy in my opinion, So you just have to
find that.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Caught in the nurses or policeman.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Ye, we'd go there. Look, you get where you get
where I'm coming from, right, Like the next generation of
our learners like that. That matters, and it's really hard
to achieve anything else in this economy if we don't
get that part right.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Can you remember your best your favorite teacher?
Speaker 4 (18:21):
Yes, I can, mister mccarthin Palms North Girls High School.
He taught me design and visual communication, a skill I
have never ever used. But he was an educator, a.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Pet I'll ask you that you as well. Can you
remember your favorite teacher?
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Yeah? Yeah, Susan Matthews for.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
History, missus Armstrong commercial practice for me at Tarber College.
We all know our favorite teacher. That was the moral
of the story, wasn't it?
Speaker 4 (18:44):
And every listener will too, right, and it's often someone
who didn't. You can't remember what they taught you, but
you can remember what they excited in you.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
You can remember your worst teachers too.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Oh yeah, and but you can't remember the in betweens
you know's.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Of which there were dozens lots of them.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yes, let's talk about another project that your city council
I owner put together, plan to have this grandiose sludge.
Oh gosh, we were going to be world leaders again,
and another cost blowout eighty three million dollars. Of course,
we're talking about the sludge plant at MOA point, I
(19:19):
own it. Your council is synonymous with cost blowouts. Did
we really need to do the glory version of the
sludge project? We could. We have done it cheaper and
nicer and better.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
First of all, just to take a balanced view, some
projects have been developed on time and under budget, So
we do we do it sometimes. Well, the town hall
on this one has been tricky.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Is the one you brought it on to be?
Speaker 3 (19:49):
The library?
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Yeah, th and key. I know you won't like it,
but you know we got it done. So I think
there was a lot of risk in this project. It's
the first in the country. But if you don't want
pooh trucks literal poo truck literally trucks, something had to
be done.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Okay, So do it have to be Who's who was
the mayor and the council when they planned this when
it got put into can you remember.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Must have been Foster? Okay, yeah, yeah, So look, look,
I acknowledge that that is a devastating amount of money.
We're going to be paying for that for a long time.
But our waste systems the twentieth century, they have to
move into the twenty first century. We're a laggard on
waste in spite of some of us working very hard
to change that. So we're going to have to suck
it up this time and then the next step is
(20:35):
to get our organics picked up from people's stoor step
and we're going to have a much better city as
a results.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Can you give the next council that come into Wellington
City Council's position in a couple of months time some
advice on how to get things under budget?
Speaker 3 (20:50):
So I think we need to keep strengthening our project
management capability. So I did support a call for a
review because we just need to be learning all the time.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
You know.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Local government delivers big infrastructure and we need to be
really really good at it and saying that it is
not easy and there are lots of factors which we
don't have roll over you know, like the price of
steel for example.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Maddie Burgess Smith, you have just said earlier on the
show that you are now paying rates am youngest rate payer,
lots of them, right, youngest rate payer? And well, how
does it make you feel that these cost over runs
keep happening and happening because it's straight on your bill.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
Well, the sludge one, it's not straight on my bill.
It's an additional bill. Like I got a letter in
the mail saying the council can't organize the piss up
in the brewery and you're gonna have to pay for it,
and paraphrasing, but you know, another four to five hundred
dollars a year because the council hasn't made investments when
they probably needed to, and so you just get smacked
at the end, like it's really frustrating.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
So what part of the not being on your bill?
Have I got wronged? It's on your bill this extra
but it's still I got.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
I got a whole letter explaining it to me. But
again it didn't It didn't dissipate the rage by any means.
It's an additional surcharge that I now play on top
of well, you know, in addition to it all comes
out together. But I know exactly what that project cost
me as a ratepayer, which is nearly five hundred bucks.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
So we do need to look at the cost of
not taking action too, of which there is one you know,
that means more ets charges, It means a bigger landfill,
and it means reputational damage, which is your specialty. You know,
if you want to be a green city, you have
to invest astrure.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Apart from who wants to be a green city?
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Okay, maybe I've got the wrong audience. Yeah, particular point,
but actually a lot of Wellingtonians do. And it is
a bit embarrassing that we have such antiquated waste systems.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Because we haven't made the decisions we needed to earlier.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
No, because people kept complaining about rates. So we you know,
we are starting to spend more money now, but it
costs right.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
So once again you didn't answer my question. Who are
in this room apart from you wants to have all
these nice green things that Way green labor yep. But
I'm saying that everything that the greens are wanting cycle
Way and the Flashes Pooh place in town isn't going
to actually make life any better? Is it?
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Some people will disagree with you, Nick Maddie.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Is are you a fan of A I am?
Speaker 4 (23:17):
I use AI more than I use Google? Yeah constantly.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
You know I've started to too as well, are you?
I own it? No.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
I think we should read and write think for ourselves.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
You and Adam should have a coffee sometime. He thinks
the same way, Adam. But it's the future. People got
to understand. I own a pant Maddie's Burgess Smith on Friday,
face off. I don't want to talk about dental I
don't want to talk about Let's talk about whether you
should use AI, Maddie and writing a CV.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
So there's an employment agency that came out and said
that you can miss out on jobs, your dream jobs
because you use AI in your cvs. Now, I say,
use AI in your CVS and take use it to
your advantage. What is your view?
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Yeah, my approach on AI used in something like that.
You use AI for the first eighty percent or the
last twenty percent. You don't use it for one hundred percent.
So either it gets you started and then you give
it the color it needs at the end so that
it sounds like Nick applying for this job, or you
use it, you know, to you start it and then
it polishes it for you at the end. Where people
(24:23):
are going wrong is they're just regurgitating these robots sounding
cvs and just kind of spraying and praying. You know.
There are some situations now where people can apply for
up to twenty thirty forty jobs an hour because they're
not actually having to put in the work, and an
employer can see that because it doesn't sound like you.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
I Owa, what do you think do you think that
you should use AI in it? I don't think you
should send any CV without AI checking it out before
you've seen it myself a lot.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Look, I mean, technology always has its uses, but you
have to be careful. Why I'm teaching my son make
sure that he can write properly, because otherwise, how do
you know if the machine is right? So it's putting
a lot of trust in But I do think we
need to have the skills ourselves and it's not kind
of authentic if you're getting a machine to do it.
(25:12):
Because and also, of course, the employment implications are very significant.
If we get rid of all these jobs, either we
have to replace them or we've got a lot of
unemployed people.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Do you reckon that Wellington City Council has embraced AI enough.
Do you think they're doing stuff with AI to lessen
the costs and speed up things?
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Not so much at the moment. I don't think one
of my colleagues is a proponent, but you know, it
needs to be thought through quite carefully. There needs to
be some policy and deep thinking about it.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
Really also risky. You get left behind very much though.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
You see, if I was mere of Wellington, AI would
be cut and slashing and.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Well, I suppose what you could do is have AI counselors.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Gosh, that's a good idea. Why did I think of
that one?
Speaker 3 (25:58):
That's right? Are we super cheap?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Well? Okay, now something that obviously has been come out
and to be fair, but more I've talked about it
in the street, more people like it. A tourist company
says that we should lift New Zealand's working holiday age
limit from thirty five to fifty, allowing anybody that wants
to come out here basically up to fifty to further
(26:20):
boost our economy. Many what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 4 (26:23):
Don't stop at fifty, go higher. I think it's an
awesome idea.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
You know.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
I've got parents, young parents simil age to unit, really
young and they didn't do Louis. They had an adventure
and that was me. They would question whether or not
that was an adventure, but they're at the perfect time
of their life to go and do something for them
and for also for someone else. Go pick grapes or
would they do it? Yeah, I think they would. I
think they would, and I think a lot of New
Zealanders would go abroad and do it. We need to
(26:48):
work out do people have that same culture overseas to
come here and do it?
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Okay, I know what are your thoughts on that you've
just given up? You have just your kids are growing
up and you've just given up your chain and ball
at the city council. Your free woman. Now what do
you want to do? Would you like to go and
live in the south of France for a couple of
years late?
Speaker 3 (27:08):
That actually is my plan to go and live in
Paris because I'm lucky enough to have Irish passport. But seriously,
why would we be discriminating on the basis of age.
You know, people in their fifties now are very young
and healthy. So and I agree, actually go highs, go high, go.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Ninety any age you want to go and bring people
into New Zealand if they want to come and work
in here, and what do you want to make a contribution?
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Good know how to use sunscreen in this climate?
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Would they actually make a contribution to the city though,
to the countrydic, I think.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
They would I mean, if current people under thirty five
are making a contribution on working holiday visas, why is
someone who's at fifty five not. In fact, that person
at fifty five is probably in quite a different.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Life stage and probably cop more money.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
Exactly, they'll come and they'll do their three months stint somewhere,
and then they'll travel for three months and they'll spend
big and that's what we need.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Well, you're not in your head for that.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
I just think it's a no brainer. The need have
a discussion.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
And it's a really unique point of difference right now.
We have to remember that we're in a global market
place for tourism, right we are competing with the entire world.
What's our one shiny point of difference.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
That you can come out here at sixty and still
get a job and go working for a couple of years.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
And we've got to remember the people that do those
jobs out in our regions are the jobs we've decided
we don't want to do. Otherwise we wouldn't have the
scheme at all.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
And also, people aren't having so many children, so we
need more people coming here.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Okay, open the doors, let them.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
In the Friday facet than.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
On a panet. Before you give me your hots and knots,
I want to know exactly what and when and how
you made your decision. I'm just trying to get to
the bottom of the culture of the city council. When
did you decide, why did you decide to no longer stand.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
About a year ago? And for the reasons I've given you.
Not all politicians link.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Okay, I don't think you would ever tell me a
lie or more the people are willing to lie. Absolutely,
the green thing must have had some effect on you
because you were such loyal I mean you are you
the flag bearer of greens. In my mind, if I
said someone said to me, give me someone to interview
that's green, green, green, and green, I'd say I own
a pane.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Well, thank you, yeah, but no, No, it's time to
make a contribution in another way, nationally or internationally, in
some little, you know, little way. On one hundred and
sixty eight hours a week.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
You could cut the curiosity in this room with a knife.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Hots and knots please then, miss.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Right, Well, I like to be feared of the government.
Another step closer to closing down the greyhound racing industry.
Good on them, like it's disgusting. Yep, it just shouldn't
be allowed. Those animals are wonderful and they should be
treasured rather than raced. And in the absence of critical commentary,
any money on defense, I believe in starving them. Have money.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
You know that you're not hot.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
It's definitely not hot.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Iron a Pana, thank you. Come on, Maddie, give us
your hots and knots hot.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Wellington has got to be the food capital of New
Zealand right now. Burger Wellington, I've only had six. I'm
embarrassed by that number. I need to pump that up
over the weekend, your beer Varna, this weekend, food festival
next weekend. Like it does really feel like there's good
vibrancy in the city right now, and I'm getting nods
around the table. And then the knot is that I'm
leaving Wellington and I'm saying goodbye to that for a
(30:26):
period and it's going to be missed.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
I can't believe that you've had six burgers in your life,
let alone six and Wellington.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
Yeah, six and Wellington. They broad spectrum like one was
a two and another was at twelve. So some people
get too creative a with their burgers.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, I agree. So I owner, you're
going to have a burger before you before you finish, council,
are you going to go around and support have a burger?
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Yeah, that's a good reminder. It just has to be vegetarian,
so humbly they've got creative there.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Oh there's lots of vegetarian.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
People complain about Burger Wellington, say that it's overdone. It's
nine million dollars into the Wellington economy in August and
I think that's something worth celebrating.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Okay, I won't argue with you. I mean I want
to leave on a positive I want you to leave
the show on a positive note. Just give us your
best one, just quickly.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
Oh best one so far. Charlie Nobles, Oh I know
that you. Yeah, Charlie Noble is really good.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Okay, everything Charlie Nobles does is very good, isn't it? Yeah,
thank you both, Maddie. I really do want to wish
you all the very very best on I think it's
an incredible achievement for you to get a squit luck
as well.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
It's a bit of luck.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Well, No, it's an incredible achievement. Don't take it as
you know as a negative, it's a positive, extreme positive
scholarship to Oxford University to do an NBA. Maddy Burgessmith,
thank you for coming on the show when you have
and good luck it will keep in touch. I wish
you nothing but good fortune in your future. And thank
you for spending so long on the City Council.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Thank you. Note that's the kindest thing you've ever said
to me. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
I owned the panet. I had to say it to
seven and a half minutes.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
To debating the good, the bad, the ugly and everything
in between. Friday face Off with Quinovic, Wellington's property management experts.
Call eight hundred Quinnovic for more from Wellington Mornings with
Nick Mills. Listen live to news talks It'd be Wellington
from nine am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.