September 7, 2025 • 22 mins
This week's business panel takes a look at real estate and hot consumer issues, with Nick Mills joined in studio by Ray White Real Estate agent Renaye Huia, and Consumer NZ CEO Jon Duffy.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Every second Monday we go to a business panel. Today
we have Ray White, real estate agent, Renee who with us,
and John Duffy from Consumer New Zealand. He's the CEO
of Consumer New Zealand. What an amazing position John, Welcome
to the show. Firstly, John, I mean, what an amazing
position to have. I mean, one of the great brands
(00:33):
of New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Oh look, I pinch myself every morning to get myself
out of bed. It is a bit of a dream
to have this job.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah right, And Renee, people keep mentioning your name every
time I did I talk about this being that that's
been difficult, that being tough. People say, well, you know,
talk real estate. Talk about Renee's she's the bright spark
back of buses. You know, you're a bit of a
new property queen.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
I just do real estate my way, I guess, yeah,
so I just do real estate my way.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
And makes sure so good.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Just being real, just being who I am and not
changing and being local and to your community. So just
being a real person. And I guess for me, it
was the experience I had when I bought real estate
and what I was looking for, and I was just
looking for someone that understood what it was like to
buy and sell a property. So that's what my husband
(01:30):
and I do, and that's what we continue to do,
and I think that's what's made us be quite successful
at it. But it's allowed us to do the one
thing that I've always wanted to do, which was give back.
And so it's not about me and the opportunities I've
been given to give back to others has always been
my desire.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So you do do real estate a little bit different
because I was speaking to someone you wouldn't even know
in real estate that I have a lot of respect
for the other day in a supermarket in Wellington, I
said you were coming on the show and he just
went off of the speel and I'll come back to
the spiel that he gave me in a minute. But
back to you, John, I mean right now. I've talked
to you once before and said that Consumer Magazine was
(02:08):
the you know, the go to. It was almost a
playboy at our house when I grew up, you know
what I mean. Everyone wanted to Everyone looked at the
right prices and what was good and what was bad?
We didn't have internet. We didn't have it. You've lasted,
You've stood the test of time.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah, I mean, I think the point you made before,
the strength in the brand has has seen us through
the digital transformation. But we've had to really up our
game and move into the digital space, and you know
that that is a continuing process. So we still produce
a magazine, which is you know, there aren't that many
publications out there, you know, those big flagship publications anymore.
(02:44):
So we take great pride and still being able to
produce a magazine and it cleans its own face. So
there's enough subscribers that that res So how do you.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Make your money? How does consumer make their money?
Speaker 3 (02:55):
So the bulk of our money is made from membership.
So some members subscribe to the magazine, but most members
these days just subscribe to get behind our payble. So
we're like a subscription service for any kind of website
with content that you want to read.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
So where is where's that set at right now? Has
it gone up and down and up and down? And
where does it sit right now? Your membership?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Yeah, it's been hard going. It's on a slow decline,
but the decline has slowed, so we're working to actively
try and grow that, but also grow other areas of revenue.
So for example, we're working really hard at the moment
and growing our funding for big research projects. And Who
(03:36):
and I were talking off here about a research project
we just released on the future of insurance. So the
question we asked is will New Zealanders be able to
afford insurance by twenty thirty five? And we've done a
really big deep dive into that now. That was funded
by the Brian Gaynor Initiatives, which seeks to support free
and open journalism. Amazing support and it's a pretty ground
(03:59):
groundbreaking piece of research.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
So Rene, I'm going to come to you in one second,
but I'm just going to I'm just on a role
here in my mind thinking that we're in a session
right now. Whether we're technically are or not, we're in
tough times. Surely consumer magazines consumer would be the place
that you would go to because if you're going to
spend you want to make sure that you spend it
on the right product.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Yeah, and a lot of people do do that. But
of course, you know, we have chat, GPT, we have
you know, the ability to Google people's reckons on what
the best fridge is.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah, but you're independent. I mean, I can put as
many nice things about Rene. She's sold me my house
and she's fantastic, But you're independent. You're looking to you.
You're a deep dive.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
That's right, and lots of people look to that, and
that's great. We love those people. But other people are
kind of satisfied by getting recommendations from family or jumping
on Facebook and asking a question about whether someone will
read it, or you know, whether someone's brought this particular fridge,
whether it's good enough. And so we meet those I
guess that there into the market that really wants the
(05:00):
full independence, and you know, we go out and we
actually test fridges. So we are we're catering to that
end of the market.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Right now. Back to Renee, because this particular real estate
agent that I spoke to and when I was getting
my lunch a couple of weeks ago, said ah, she's
got the market down pack And I said, what do
you mean. She said, well, here and a husband they
go along, they look at a house and they say,
for me to get top dollar for this house, you
need to paint that wall of color. You need these
grounds cleaned up, you need these windows clean. My husband
(05:31):
will get that sorted out for you. This is what
it's going to cost. And I'm going to sort this
out and I'm going to sell your house. Is that
a true story, it's.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
A true story. Yeah. So basically we have our own
property maintenance team that work for me. They're amazing young men.
So we employ three, three of them for us in
full time, full time, full.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Full time maintenance people for a real estate agent.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
That's right, they are. They're they're my team, and they're
phenomenal humans. They're all local fellers as well, so they've
all got good backgrounds in property maintenance and so forth.
So they've been with us for a really long time,
pretty much. Steve's been with us from the very start.
And so we actually do go and look at the
(06:15):
properties and we prep them for them. So we do
their lawns, we wash down their houses, we clean windows,
we stage their houses. I have a warehouse full of staging,
so provide it my own, my own, it's all mine,
And yeah, we are a little bit unique. But the
whole thing is is that when someone choosing an agent,
(06:38):
they want a one stop shop. They want someone that
can do it all. They want the stress to be
taken away and they want the support. So we decided
that we would be that support. And we're people that
work hard, so we wanted to work for our money.
We wanted to make sure that we earned our commissions.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
And how do people know? Can I just be the
devil's advocate here, because it's a fabulous story, right, How
do people know that you are giving them value for
money the house washes, you know, value for money, and
the loans and all that. How do they work that out?
Speaker 4 (07:10):
I think basically how people work it out is what
they see from someone online or someone in the local community,
and what they charge to paint your house, what they
charge to do your loans and maintenance each week in
relation to stuff like that. So you could basically not
look after your section for I don't know, months and
months and months. It must cost you three or four
thousand dollars to have someone come in and do that,
(07:31):
but we include all of ours in our commission. Staging
ranges from anywhere from five hundred to three and a
half thousand. You have that for three weeks in your house,
and then you have to pay five hundred dollars for
every week and then include it in your insurance as
if it gets stolen, and if you break anything, you
have to replace certain all of these things which are
(07:52):
all extra pressures to a client. And you know a
lot of my clients couldn't afford to do that, so,
you know, and sell their house and get the most
money they can. Because most of my clients, every I
guess asset they have is in that house and what
they've put all their money into is right there. So
(08:12):
when they sell, they need to be able to have
that money to do what they need to do with
the rest of their life, whatever that may be. So
for me, coming from the background I come from, which
is pretty poor and a tough upbringing, it's not all
the ways about the money. It's about giving back and
that's what we do.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
I'm going to come back to you and see John
consumer River looked at real estate because I have an
issue with real estate. Do you know what my issue
with real estates is that up front three and a
half grand? That's my issue we hit While we do.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
A serve every two years of customer satisfaction for real
estate agents. It's not Ray White at the moment, but
it's a different brand Low and Co. Well, the end
Co brands.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
YEP, which is made up of all different franchises.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Around the country. Yeah, that's right. You just tack the
end Co on the end ANDEP.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
So that number one, so the.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Number one in our current survey. So that survey's not
due again until next year, so that could change them
right now.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
How do you work that out?
Speaker 3 (09:14):
So we go out and we survey people who have
been customers of real estate agents, so it can be
quite tricky to get to a kind of representative number
of people, but we do that. We engage an external
professional firm to find those people for us, and then yeah,
ask them a series of questions and that's how customer
services worked out.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Renee, coming back to you on selling right now, we're
in a tough market. I mean, have the interest rates
dropping made things get more buoyant? Is is it lifted anything?
Or is it? You work operate completely differently, so the
markets don't affect you.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
I think markets affect us, you know, no matter what's
going on. I think at the moment, you know, with
the o CR rates stopping and everything, we're not going
to see any of that right now. It's going to
take some time, how long, how long between twelve and
eighty months. There's generally what they see relation to OCR
in the in the market. I think there's a lot
of other factors that impact that as well, and I
(10:14):
think the cost of living, etc. And all of those
things definitely impact everyone and whether they choose to buy
a house. Insurance is one of them which we've talked
about and I've read the article and it was phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
So you know, it will go through a stage and
I'm sorry to enouter, but I really I mean for
our listeners, do you think it'll get to a stage
where we saying, let's self insurre, let's not ensure our home.
I mean, I know banks won't allow that with mortgages,
will they.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
I think ultimately there's a lot of factors with insurance
at the moment, and obviously everyone should potentially be looking
at the natural hazard mapping and all of that's impacted
on the insurance. Especially here in Wellington we've probably been
affected a lot based on where we live and all
the natural hazards there in relation to the mapping system.
So those things are really important, and yes, I think
(11:01):
maybe we might get to that stage, But at this
stage we're not there, so I think we just need
to be focused on We were at.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Business panel with Renee Huia and Consumer Institute New Zealand
CEO John Duffy. John, let's start with well, not let's start,
let's carry on with this insurancing because during the ad
break we started talking about insurance and the ramifications of
buying a property and not being able to get insurance.
How serious is the insurance issue for New Zealand consumers.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
It's extremely serious and you know the pattern over the
next ten years, we see this becoming a more and
more urgent issue. One of the major issues is there's
no climate adaptation framework coming out of the government, right,
so there's no there's no strategy for what all of
the industries that are being impacted by climate change can
(11:51):
look to to go. Right, here's here's here's what we
know the government's going to do, and here's some easy well,
here's some decisions that we can make. They won't necessarily
be easy decisions. What we see happening is insurance premiums
going up and up and up as climate change risk,
the risk from severe weather earthquake risks always existed in
(12:12):
particular places like Wellington, but across the country. But it's
really the severe weather events that are really increasing our
risk profile as a country. Insurance are going to do
what they always do, they price based on risk. This
isn't necessarily a criticism of the insurance industry. They're just
doing what they've always done. But eventually we get to
the point where people who are in homes that they've
(12:33):
taken mortgages out on won't be able to afford the
premiums that are being charged with them, plus all the
other things you know, the rates, increases, the cost of groceries,
the cost of electricity. They won't be able to afford
those insurance premiums and many of them will opt to
either reduce their coverage right down or in some instances,
and we're already seeing this, they will lapse their home insurance.
(12:54):
Now that is really bad for a couple of reasons. First,
the insurance it's actually a good thing. It spreads risk
across the community. Secondly, in New Zealand, we're lucky enough
to have NHC cover that actually keeps our premier in
premium prices down. But if you don't have home insurance,
you don't get that coverage for that.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
How do the banks find out if you actually, you know,
I mean, obviously everyone's mortgage says you've got to have insurance,
So how do the banks find out if you don't
have insurance?
Speaker 3 (13:20):
They typically only ask at two points refinancing and you're refinancing,
or you take the mortgage out in the first place,
or if you tell them that you're struggling to meet
your mortgage payments, they'll then inquire into your kind of
full financial picture and go, well, gosh, you're now you
were paying two thousand, Now you're playing six thousand dollars
a year for insurance. And we're seeing examples of people,
(13:43):
for example, in patone, who are paying close one thousand
dollars a month for insurance on a two or three
bedroom house.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
When I am coming to you because I know you're
nodding your head and smiling, and then thinking this is
affecting real estate agents because I know for a fact
that Potoni, sometimes you're going to struggle to get insurance.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Yeah, definitely, And we are seeing insurance as a big one.
And obviously a lot of people who have already got
their current insurance policies probably need to go and have
them reassist. That's probably one of the biggest things.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
You know.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
We're certainly meeting vendors now and getting houses ready for market,
and one of the key conversations is around insurance and
the natural hazard mapping that's changed so obviously and what
impact that's going to have. So for us, we make
sure that, you know, purchasers are aware and we put
an insurance clause in their contracts so that they are
(14:33):
able to obtain insurance and they check that before they
go down the road of actually buying a home. So
it's a big thing.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Have you seen have you seen deals for l over
because of insurance? Yes? Often? Yes? How often?
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Probably about one insects.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Wow, and they've got the mortgage, they've got ready to go,
but they haven't can't get insurance, so they have to
walk away from buy direct.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
And it's also one of the key things is is
navigating through the insurance companies and understanding that. And so
I always find that you using an insurance broker he
is probably the way to go now. And you met
Brock last week. He's got the in our area, in
our location, and so he's obviously got the insurance side
(15:19):
connected to his company. So we definitely do use his
organization with his insurance brokers to help our clients because
they've got the skill level to be able to get
those things done and ask the right questions for them.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
John, what advice have you got? I mean you, once again,
you're not in an agreeing with It's a pretty serious.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Sit and I hear that. You know, one of the
frustrations I hear from people is, you know, one of
our standard lines is consumers it as we say, shop around.
You know, competition is a good thing in markets, but
insurances bananas. It's very very personalized to the individual and
the property that they are looking are seeking to ensure.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
So to just quickly ask you, is that the same
as like power companies, you can't talk to one unless
you've got clearance from the other that has it.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Got that it's much easier to co peer power plan
prices than it is to compare insurance policies.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Wow, there's a time that we looked at maybe the
state insurance thing where a government started ensuring just properties
land and properties.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Where there's certainly a school of thought that the state
will eventually need to do more and become an insurer
of last resort because increasing numbers of people won't be
able to get the levels of insurance that we're used
to as an economy, you know, people being covered for
that risk. You know, insurance really is what makes the
(16:40):
wheels turned. And if it starts and it's not turning,
the equation we're in we have problems.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I want to ask you about doing business in Wellington.
There's a kind of a feel around the Wellington region
that the government's taken their eyets off the ball with us,
made a lot of people redundant, closed. You know, businesses
are closing down. Every day we pick up an article
and find another business is closed down. And yet they
concentrate on Auckland and christ Church. John, is that is
(17:08):
that a I mean you're a well in Tony and
you you know the city better than most. You went
to school here, you're growing up here. You know, you
know the city. Do you think that the government has
forgotten about us? John? Sir John Key said we're dying.
Christopher Luxon says he loves to get out of Wellington
as quick as he can.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Yeah. I think I think quite rightly that the government's
focused on, you know, where there's money to be made
and that's Auckland and to a certain extent christ Church,
you know those Auckland is the powerhouse of our economy,
so you'd expect him to have focused there. I think
that's rational. I think the impact of cuts to the
(17:45):
public service have been drastic in Wellington. Like having lived
here most of my life, I've seen it. I've seen
it through various cycles. It's definitely on the down at
the moment. But you know, Wellingtonian is a hardy folk
and it is a cyclic city. It does go through
(18:05):
ups and down. So I have every faith that Wellington
will bounce back and probably bounce back in a more
creative and interesting way for the period of kind of
recession that we're in. Yeah, I think the government, to
answer your question directly, I think the government's underestimated the
impact that they would have on Wellington by its slash
(18:27):
and burn tactics in the public sector, and certainly, as
an NGO that works closely with government, we're certainly seeing
the fact that government agencies are well understaffed, so they're
for example, looking to organizations like mine to fill in
the gaps that they normally would have had policy people
doing so they're asking us for advice and endless work
(18:50):
on submissions, a huge volume of work that you know
the general public would normally expect civil servants to be
paid to do. So there are gaps reda.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
We keep talking, keep hearing, we keep talking about it.
Well we keep hearing that our rates in Wellington are
fifty percent more than they are in Auckland. I know
it's population based and everything, but doing business in Wellington
is tough.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Work, it sure is. And I think the key thing
is is that for us as Wellington to bring more
business in here, we need to look at how expensive
that is because we're driving businesses to those other cities
Auckland and christ Church to why they're becoming bigger and
taking them away from here. If I remember the most
(19:34):
amazing place of Wellington, the hustle and bustle, the creativity
that Wellington has, and we are quite unique. We are
very different. We're not like christ Church and we're not
like Auckland. But if anything with what the government has done,
and I understand why they've made some of their decisions,
but I do also think that for us now it's
(19:55):
probably for us Wellingtonians to step up and say we
can't rely on the government and all of their government
agencies to hold our city up. What are we going
to do as people that live here to look for
other avenues now to bring Wellington back in So I
think we should look at the creativity of what we
already have in the arts and maybe it sectors, because
(20:17):
it's what we're good at.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Well positivity. I love it, you guys, if you pick
up somewhere Rena, you've got that Australian twang. So you've
got Australian friends that come and come and visit you
over from over and Aussie. What would you do with John?
You know the city better than most. What are you
going to do with someone very special? You want to
showcase your city.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
That I enjoy a beer and I like food, soil,
I'm probably taking them down for a nice craft beer,
maybe at Goldings somewhere like that. And the end up
keep a street somewhere nice and chicken cheerful for dinner.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Good on you come on, Rene, we are you're going
to take your friend or family from Australia.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
We always go to the waterfront. I love it. I
love the waterfront and we always stay at the Intercontinental.
So that's my faves, so that's where we always go.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Gosh, rich and rich and famous.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
Definitely not that.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Well, it's been lovely having you both on. I'm sorry
we had to cut it short and we'll definitely have
you both on again. Enjoyed having on. Renee, keep up
the good work. I think you're a very impressive young
woman who's got some great ideas and is changing changing
real estate. There you go. Can I say that? Okay?
And John, Well, your organization is part of our inner
(21:33):
Being a Kiwi consumer magazine is part of being a
Kiwi And you gave me a little bit of an
emotional backdrop when you gave me the magazine because it
made me feel like I was twelve again and my
dad's gone out to let a box to get his
consumer magazine. See what the right lawmar to buy was.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
There might actually be lormos in that magazine.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Okay, battery power one's okay, just say yes or no. Yeah,
I've always thought about a battery power. Renee is looking
about what's a Lordmark? What's a Lordmark?
Speaker 4 (22:02):
No?
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Definitely not. Thank you both so very much for coming
in and enjoyed having you on the show.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Every second Monday we go to a business panel. Today
we have Ray White, real estate agent, Renee who with us,
and John Duffy from Consumer New Zealand. He's the CEO
of Consumer New Zealand. What an amazing position John, Welcome
to the show. Firstly, John, I mean, what an amazing
position to have. I mean, one of the great brands
(00:33):
of New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Oh look, I pinch myself every morning to get myself
out of bed. It is a bit of a dream
to have this job.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah right, And Renee, people keep mentioning your name every
time I did I talk about this being that that's
been difficult, that being tough. People say, well, you know,
talk real estate. Talk about Renee's she's the bright spark
back of buses. You know, you're a bit of a
new property queen.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
I just do real estate my way, I guess, yeah,
so I just do real estate my way.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
And makes sure so good.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Just being real, just being who I am and not
changing and being local and to your community. So just
being a real person. And I guess for me, it
was the experience I had when I bought real estate
and what I was looking for, and I was just
looking for someone that understood what it was like to
buy and sell a property. So that's what my husband
(01:30):
and I do, and that's what we continue to do,
and I think that's what's made us be quite successful
at it. But it's allowed us to do the one
thing that I've always wanted to do, which was give back.
And so it's not about me and the opportunities I've
been given to give back to others has always been
my desire.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So you do do real estate a little bit different
because I was speaking to someone you wouldn't even know
in real estate that I have a lot of respect
for the other day in a supermarket in Wellington, I
said you were coming on the show and he just
went off of the speel and I'll come back to
the spiel that he gave me in a minute. But
back to you, John, I mean right now. I've talked
to you once before and said that Consumer Magazine was
(02:08):
the you know, the go to. It was almost a
playboy at our house when I grew up, you know
what I mean. Everyone wanted to Everyone looked at the
right prices and what was good and what was bad?
We didn't have internet. We didn't have it. You've lasted,
You've stood the test of time.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah, I mean, I think the point you made before,
the strength in the brand has has seen us through
the digital transformation. But we've had to really up our
game and move into the digital space, and you know
that that is a continuing process. So we still produce
a magazine, which is you know, there aren't that many
publications out there, you know, those big flagship publications anymore.
(02:44):
So we take great pride and still being able to
produce a magazine and it cleans its own face. So
there's enough subscribers that that res So how do you.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Make your money? How does consumer make their money?
Speaker 3 (02:55):
So the bulk of our money is made from membership.
So some members subscribe to the magazine, but most members
these days just subscribe to get behind our payble. So
we're like a subscription service for any kind of website
with content that you want to read.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
So where is where's that set at right now? Has
it gone up and down and up and down? And
where does it sit right now? Your membership?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Yeah, it's been hard going. It's on a slow decline,
but the decline has slowed, so we're working to actively
try and grow that, but also grow other areas of revenue.
So for example, we're working really hard at the moment
and growing our funding for big research projects. And Who
(03:36):
and I were talking off here about a research project
we just released on the future of insurance. So the
question we asked is will New Zealanders be able to
afford insurance by twenty thirty five? And we've done a
really big deep dive into that now. That was funded
by the Brian Gaynor Initiatives, which seeks to support free
and open journalism. Amazing support and it's a pretty ground
(03:59):
groundbreaking piece of research.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
So Rene, I'm going to come to you in one second,
but I'm just going to I'm just on a role
here in my mind thinking that we're in a session
right now. Whether we're technically are or not, we're in
tough times. Surely consumer magazines consumer would be the place
that you would go to because if you're going to
spend you want to make sure that you spend it
on the right product.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Yeah, and a lot of people do do that. But
of course, you know, we have chat, GPT, we have
you know, the ability to Google people's reckons on what
the best fridge is.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah, but you're independent. I mean, I can put as
many nice things about Rene. She's sold me my house
and she's fantastic, But you're independent. You're looking to you.
You're a deep dive.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
That's right, and lots of people look to that, and
that's great. We love those people. But other people are
kind of satisfied by getting recommendations from family or jumping
on Facebook and asking a question about whether someone will
read it, or you know, whether someone's brought this particular fridge,
whether it's good enough. And so we meet those I
guess that there into the market that really wants the
(05:00):
full independence, and you know, we go out and we
actually test fridges. So we are we're catering to that
end of the market.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Right now. Back to Renee, because this particular real estate
agent that I spoke to and when I was getting
my lunch a couple of weeks ago, said ah, she's
got the market down pack And I said, what do
you mean. She said, well, here and a husband they
go along, they look at a house and they say,
for me to get top dollar for this house, you
need to paint that wall of color. You need these
grounds cleaned up, you need these windows clean. My husband
(05:31):
will get that sorted out for you. This is what
it's going to cost. And I'm going to sort this
out and I'm going to sell your house. Is that
a true story, it's.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
A true story. Yeah. So basically we have our own
property maintenance team that work for me. They're amazing young men.
So we employ three, three of them for us in
full time, full time, full.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Full time maintenance people for a real estate agent.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
That's right, they are. They're they're my team, and they're
phenomenal humans. They're all local fellers as well, so they've
all got good backgrounds in property maintenance and so forth.
So they've been with us for a really long time,
pretty much. Steve's been with us from the very start.
And so we actually do go and look at the
(06:15):
properties and we prep them for them. So we do
their lawns, we wash down their houses, we clean windows,
we stage their houses. I have a warehouse full of staging,
so provide it my own, my own, it's all mine,
And yeah, we are a little bit unique. But the
whole thing is is that when someone choosing an agent,
(06:38):
they want a one stop shop. They want someone that
can do it all. They want the stress to be
taken away and they want the support. So we decided
that we would be that support. And we're people that
work hard, so we wanted to work for our money.
We wanted to make sure that we earned our commissions.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
And how do people know? Can I just be the
devil's advocate here, because it's a fabulous story, right, How
do people know that you are giving them value for
money the house washes, you know, value for money, and
the loans and all that. How do they work that out?
Speaker 4 (07:10):
I think basically how people work it out is what
they see from someone online or someone in the local community,
and what they charge to paint your house, what they
charge to do your loans and maintenance each week in
relation to stuff like that. So you could basically not
look after your section for I don't know, months and
months and months. It must cost you three or four
thousand dollars to have someone come in and do that,
(07:31):
but we include all of ours in our commission. Staging
ranges from anywhere from five hundred to three and a
half thousand. You have that for three weeks in your house,
and then you have to pay five hundred dollars for
every week and then include it in your insurance as
if it gets stolen, and if you break anything, you
have to replace certain all of these things which are
(07:52):
all extra pressures to a client. And you know a
lot of my clients couldn't afford to do that, so,
you know, and sell their house and get the most
money they can. Because most of my clients, every I
guess asset they have is in that house and what
they've put all their money into is right there. So
(08:12):
when they sell, they need to be able to have
that money to do what they need to do with
the rest of their life, whatever that may be. So
for me, coming from the background I come from, which
is pretty poor and a tough upbringing, it's not all
the ways about the money. It's about giving back and
that's what we do.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
I'm going to come back to you and see John
consumer River looked at real estate because I have an
issue with real estate. Do you know what my issue
with real estates is that up front three and a
half grand? That's my issue we hit While we do.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
A serve every two years of customer satisfaction for real
estate agents. It's not Ray White at the moment, but
it's a different brand Low and Co. Well, the end
Co brands.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
YEP, which is made up of all different franchises.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Around the country. Yeah, that's right. You just tack the
end Co on the end ANDEP.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
So that number one, so the.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Number one in our current survey. So that survey's not
due again until next year, so that could change them
right now.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
How do you work that out?
Speaker 3 (09:14):
So we go out and we survey people who have
been customers of real estate agents, so it can be
quite tricky to get to a kind of representative number
of people, but we do that. We engage an external
professional firm to find those people for us, and then yeah,
ask them a series of questions and that's how customer
services worked out.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Renee, coming back to you on selling right now, we're
in a tough market. I mean, have the interest rates
dropping made things get more buoyant? Is is it lifted anything?
Or is it? You work operate completely differently, so the
markets don't affect you.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
I think markets affect us, you know, no matter what's
going on. I think at the moment, you know, with
the o CR rates stopping and everything, we're not going
to see any of that right now. It's going to
take some time, how long, how long between twelve and
eighty months. There's generally what they see relation to OCR
in the in the market. I think there's a lot
of other factors that impact that as well, and I
(10:14):
think the cost of living, etc. And all of those
things definitely impact everyone and whether they choose to buy
a house. Insurance is one of them which we've talked
about and I've read the article and it was phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
So you know, it will go through a stage and
I'm sorry to enouter, but I really I mean for
our listeners, do you think it'll get to a stage
where we saying, let's self insurre, let's not ensure our home.
I mean, I know banks won't allow that with mortgages,
will they.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
I think ultimately there's a lot of factors with insurance
at the moment, and obviously everyone should potentially be looking
at the natural hazard mapping and all of that's impacted
on the insurance. Especially here in Wellington we've probably been
affected a lot based on where we live and all
the natural hazards there in relation to the mapping system.
So those things are really important, and yes, I think
(11:01):
maybe we might get to that stage, But at this
stage we're not there, so I think we just need
to be focused on We were at.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Business panel with Renee Huia and Consumer Institute New Zealand
CEO John Duffy. John, let's start with well, not let's start,
let's carry on with this insurancing because during the ad
break we started talking about insurance and the ramifications of
buying a property and not being able to get insurance.
How serious is the insurance issue for New Zealand consumers.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
It's extremely serious and you know the pattern over the
next ten years, we see this becoming a more and
more urgent issue. One of the major issues is there's
no climate adaptation framework coming out of the government, right,
so there's no there's no strategy for what all of
the industries that are being impacted by climate change can
(11:51):
look to to go. Right, here's here's here's what we
know the government's going to do, and here's some easy well,
here's some decisions that we can make. They won't necessarily
be easy decisions. What we see happening is insurance premiums
going up and up and up as climate change risk,
the risk from severe weather earthquake risks always existed in
(12:12):
particular places like Wellington, but across the country. But it's
really the severe weather events that are really increasing our
risk profile as a country. Insurance are going to do
what they always do, they price based on risk. This
isn't necessarily a criticism of the insurance industry. They're just
doing what they've always done. But eventually we get to
the point where people who are in homes that they've
(12:33):
taken mortgages out on won't be able to afford the
premiums that are being charged with them, plus all the
other things you know, the rates, increases, the cost of groceries,
the cost of electricity. They won't be able to afford
those insurance premiums and many of them will opt to
either reduce their coverage right down or in some instances,
and we're already seeing this, they will lapse their home insurance.
(12:54):
Now that is really bad for a couple of reasons. First,
the insurance it's actually a good thing. It spreads risk
across the community. Secondly, in New Zealand, we're lucky enough
to have NHC cover that actually keeps our premier in
premium prices down. But if you don't have home insurance,
you don't get that coverage for that.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
How do the banks find out if you actually, you know,
I mean, obviously everyone's mortgage says you've got to have insurance,
So how do the banks find out if you don't
have insurance?
Speaker 3 (13:20):
They typically only ask at two points refinancing and you're refinancing,
or you take the mortgage out in the first place,
or if you tell them that you're struggling to meet
your mortgage payments, they'll then inquire into your kind of
full financial picture and go, well, gosh, you're now you
were paying two thousand, Now you're playing six thousand dollars
a year for insurance. And we're seeing examples of people,
(13:43):
for example, in patone, who are paying close one thousand
dollars a month for insurance on a two or three
bedroom house.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
When I am coming to you because I know you're
nodding your head and smiling, and then thinking this is
affecting real estate agents because I know for a fact
that Potoni, sometimes you're going to struggle to get insurance.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Yeah, definitely, And we are seeing insurance as a big one.
And obviously a lot of people who have already got
their current insurance policies probably need to go and have
them reassist. That's probably one of the biggest things.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
You know.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
We're certainly meeting vendors now and getting houses ready for market,
and one of the key conversations is around insurance and
the natural hazard mapping that's changed so obviously and what
impact that's going to have. So for us, we make
sure that, you know, purchasers are aware and we put
an insurance clause in their contracts so that they are
(14:33):
able to obtain insurance and they check that before they
go down the road of actually buying a home. So
it's a big thing.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Have you seen have you seen deals for l over
because of insurance? Yes? Often? Yes? How often?
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Probably about one insects.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Wow, and they've got the mortgage, they've got ready to go,
but they haven't can't get insurance, so they have to
walk away from buy direct.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
And it's also one of the key things is is
navigating through the insurance companies and understanding that. And so
I always find that you using an insurance broker he
is probably the way to go now. And you met
Brock last week. He's got the in our area, in
our location, and so he's obviously got the insurance side
(15:19):
connected to his company. So we definitely do use his
organization with his insurance brokers to help our clients because
they've got the skill level to be able to get
those things done and ask the right questions for them.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
John, what advice have you got? I mean you, once again,
you're not in an agreeing with It's a pretty serious.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Sit and I hear that. You know, one of the
frustrations I hear from people is, you know, one of
our standard lines is consumers it as we say, shop around.
You know, competition is a good thing in markets, but
insurances bananas. It's very very personalized to the individual and
the property that they are looking are seeking to ensure.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
So to just quickly ask you, is that the same
as like power companies, you can't talk to one unless
you've got clearance from the other that has it.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Got that it's much easier to co peer power plan
prices than it is to compare insurance policies.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Wow, there's a time that we looked at maybe the
state insurance thing where a government started ensuring just properties
land and properties.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Where there's certainly a school of thought that the state
will eventually need to do more and become an insurer
of last resort because increasing numbers of people won't be
able to get the levels of insurance that we're used
to as an economy, you know, people being covered for
that risk. You know, insurance really is what makes the
(16:40):
wheels turned. And if it starts and it's not turning,
the equation we're in we have problems.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I want to ask you about doing business in Wellington.
There's a kind of a feel around the Wellington region
that the government's taken their eyets off the ball with us,
made a lot of people redundant, closed. You know, businesses
are closing down. Every day we pick up an article
and find another business is closed down. And yet they
concentrate on Auckland and christ Church. John, is that is
(17:08):
that a I mean you're a well in Tony and
you you know the city better than most. You went
to school here, you're growing up here. You know, you
know the city. Do you think that the government has
forgotten about us? John? Sir John Key said we're dying.
Christopher Luxon says he loves to get out of Wellington
as quick as he can.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Yeah. I think I think quite rightly that the government's
focused on, you know, where there's money to be made
and that's Auckland and to a certain extent christ Church,
you know those Auckland is the powerhouse of our economy,
so you'd expect him to have focused there. I think
that's rational. I think the impact of cuts to the
(17:45):
public service have been drastic in Wellington. Like having lived
here most of my life, I've seen it. I've seen
it through various cycles. It's definitely on the down at
the moment. But you know, Wellingtonian is a hardy folk
and it is a cyclic city. It does go through
(18:05):
ups and down. So I have every faith that Wellington
will bounce back and probably bounce back in a more
creative and interesting way for the period of kind of
recession that we're in. Yeah, I think the government, to
answer your question directly, I think the government's underestimated the
impact that they would have on Wellington by its slash
(18:27):
and burn tactics in the public sector, and certainly, as
an NGO that works closely with government, we're certainly seeing
the fact that government agencies are well understaffed, so they're
for example, looking to organizations like mine to fill in
the gaps that they normally would have had policy people
doing so they're asking us for advice and endless work
(18:50):
on submissions, a huge volume of work that you know
the general public would normally expect civil servants to be
paid to do. So there are gaps reda.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
We keep talking, keep hearing, we keep talking about it.
Well we keep hearing that our rates in Wellington are
fifty percent more than they are in Auckland. I know
it's population based and everything, but doing business in Wellington
is tough.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Work, it sure is. And I think the key thing
is is that for us as Wellington to bring more
business in here, we need to look at how expensive
that is because we're driving businesses to those other cities
Auckland and christ Church to why they're becoming bigger and
taking them away from here. If I remember the most
(19:34):
amazing place of Wellington, the hustle and bustle, the creativity
that Wellington has, and we are quite unique. We are
very different. We're not like christ Church and we're not
like Auckland. But if anything with what the government has done,
and I understand why they've made some of their decisions,
but I do also think that for us now it's
(19:55):
probably for us Wellingtonians to step up and say we
can't rely on the government and all of their government
agencies to hold our city up. What are we going
to do as people that live here to look for
other avenues now to bring Wellington back in So I
think we should look at the creativity of what we
already have in the arts and maybe it sectors, because
(20:17):
it's what we're good at.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Well positivity. I love it, you guys, if you pick
up somewhere Rena, you've got that Australian twang. So you've
got Australian friends that come and come and visit you
over from over and Aussie. What would you do with John?
You know the city better than most. What are you
going to do with someone very special? You want to
showcase your city.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
That I enjoy a beer and I like food, soil,
I'm probably taking them down for a nice craft beer,
maybe at Goldings somewhere like that. And the end up
keep a street somewhere nice and chicken cheerful for dinner.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Good on you come on, Rene, we are you're going
to take your friend or family from Australia.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
We always go to the waterfront. I love it. I
love the waterfront and we always stay at the Intercontinental.
So that's my faves, so that's where we always go.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Gosh, rich and rich and famous.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
Definitely not that.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Well, it's been lovely having you both on. I'm sorry
we had to cut it short and we'll definitely have
you both on again. Enjoyed having on. Renee, keep up
the good work. I think you're a very impressive young
woman who's got some great ideas and is changing changing
real estate. There you go. Can I say that? Okay?
And John, Well, your organization is part of our inner
(21:33):
Being a Kiwi consumer magazine is part of being a
Kiwi And you gave me a little bit of an
emotional backdrop when you gave me the magazine because it
made me feel like I was twelve again and my
dad's gone out to let a box to get his
consumer magazine. See what the right lawmar to buy was.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
There might actually be lormos in that magazine.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Okay, battery power one's okay, just say yes or no. Yeah,
I've always thought about a battery power. Renee is looking
about what's a Lordmark? What's a Lordmark?
Speaker 4 (22:02):
No?
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Definitely not. Thank you both so very much for coming
in and enjoyed having you on the show.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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