September 28, 2025 • 11 mins
Winston Peters announced New Zealand's stance on Palestinian Statehood this weekend at the UN.
We hear the talk around the beehive after Cabinet's decision to not recognise the state.
We also discuss the funding of prisons and the upcoming announcement from Prime Minister Christopher Luxon on earthquake-prone building law rewrites, and how this will impact Wellingtonians and our businesses.
Newstalk ZB political editor Azaria Howel joined Nick Mills for the Beehive Buzz.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks EDB Direct from News Talks edb's team
at Parliaments The bee Hive Buzz.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Azaria Howe was the senior political reporter for News Talks MB,
and she joins us live from the Beehive. Good morning, Izaria,
Good morning, good weekend.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Yeah, it's been a great weekend. It's been really good.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Okay, did you watch Winston Peters?
Speaker 3 (00:38):
I did, Yes, Yes, I did, Yeah, I watched. It
was very it was a very interesting one. I mean,
we sort of knew that New Zealand's position was when
not if, but beyond that in terms of recognizing Palestine,
it was really not certain in terms of whether or
it would be a yes or no until it was
(00:58):
actually being talked about that day.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Oh so you you kind of you kind of knew
that they were yes, that they wanted to but not
right now, but you didn't know when nor how is that?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
How? Yes?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yes, so the government's previously said a matter of recognizing
a state of Palestine would be about when, not if,
but yes, as you say, Winston Peters over the weekend
confirming to the UN General Assembly that now is not
the time, so he spoke to the un essentially detailing
that it could be sort of counterproductive for New Zealand
(01:31):
to recognize the Palestinian state at this stage, essentially pointing
to the way that both Hamas and Israel have reacted
when other countries have supported recognition, kind of ramping up
the military action. The Foreign Affairs Minister is sort of
suggesting as well that it's exacerbated the situation in Gaza.
The speech also came after the likes of Australia, Canada,
(01:53):
France and the UK have supported formal recognition of a
Palestinian state, and a lot of them did so on
the same day, so it was interesting that day when
New Zealand didn't. It sort of raised a couple of
qu questions. But yes, New Zealand's previously held the view
that recognition as a matter of when, not if, and
it has been confirmed that essentially that's still the case,
(02:16):
but that now is not the time. The Prime Minister
is also confident that the coalitions come to the right
agreement on the matter. We've had to have discussions between
National New Zealand's First and Act and he's saying that
as the leader of Nationals. The decision sits well with
him saying really that Hamas is the de facto government
(02:36):
of Gaza. It is also worth noting though a number
of countries that have supported formal recognition are doing so
with conditions on Hamas, so it means that they would
essentially be unable to have any role in any future
governance arrangement in that area. But there has been quite
a lot of reaction to this.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
One, Asariah. We've been waiting for forty years for a
decision from previous governments and of both you know, left
and right, have they always used the when not if?
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Yeah, I mean that has been something that has been discussed.
I mean it is interesting because in terms of the
reaction from the Labor Party, I mean they're saying that
this puts New Zealand on the wrong side of history.
So it does kind of raise the question, well, why
wasn't that something that Labor did when they were in government.
(03:26):
But obviously the situation has become increasingly exacerbated in recent
years since that attack on October the seventh and the
ongoing response to that as well. In terms of that
situation in Gaza, So the Labor Party has said that
really that there's no two states solution or enduring peace
(03:49):
in the Middle East without that recognition of Palestine as
a state. That's from Labour's Penny Henna Day. But Senior
Labor and p Willie Jackson he went even further than this.
He said it was a shameful day and then said, quote,
this is a dark day for our nation. He said,
all all that blood spilled in previous wars for freedom
(04:09):
and democracy are wasted and demeaned by this appalling cowardice.
That is his words from Willie Jackson. He says, shame
on you, Winston. I never thought you would act like this.
Former Prime Minister Helen Clarke Wills weighing in on this
one again saying that New Zealand's placed itself on the
wrong side of history. The Greens also have given a
(04:30):
reaction to this, co leader Madame Davidson saying it's bitterly disappointing,
saying that the government is cowardly. It's a stain on
the country's reputation. So a lot of strong views on
this one also worth pointing out though as well. Another
significant part of this announcement ten million dollars in additional
humanitarian aid in the area. So we do hope that
(04:52):
that provides improvement to the situation. But there has been
quite a lot of back and forth in terms of
the reaction from politicians and political parties about not recognizing
Palestine at this stage.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Very well for them to come out and say it.
When they were in government, they didn't do it as well,
so you know, I don't give that a lot of credits.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Really.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
I mean, Labor have said essentially in a press conference
that they would had they if they're in government in future,
so it is worth keeping eye on that. Just see.
I mean, the situation has kind of gotten more severe
in recent years, but yes, I mean it has been.
(05:34):
New Zealand's position for a long time has been to
support a two state solution. It's just when do we
formally recognize a Palestinian state, And it appears like our
government's position is that now is just not the right
time to do that.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Zaria. A couple of weeks ago, we did a story
on the show that the prison population in New Zealand's
growing to just over or just under ten thousand. Now
that it's growing, you know, obviously with the new stance
on crime that the coalition government have, but does the
corrections have the cash to year with it. I mean,
I've heard a while ago that there's a big announcement
(06:10):
coming with a new jail in the Hawk's Bay. What
are you hearing?
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Yeah, so we've had a really interesting story from Derek
Chang from The Herald. An extra ninety eight million dollars
was announced in this year's budget, that being Budget twenty
twenty five, mostly to hire frontline correction stuff that was
supposed to last until June, and it was also expected
to cover a forecast increase in the prison population as well.
(06:35):
But by the end of June this year there's been
almost an all time high prison population. That's a year
earlier than what we're expecting in those forecasts. So yes,
essentially Budget twenty twenty five provided funding to cover a
forecast ten thousand, eight hundred and sixty prisoners by June
next year, but by the end of June this year
(06:56):
there were already ten thousand, seven hundred and eighty three prisoners.
So essentially just a little bit off of that number
in terms of the prediction well than expected well Correction
Corrections Minister rather Mark Mitchell, so there's no looming crisis.
It's also saying that services are improving, so we'll keep
an eye on this one in terms of the reaction
(07:19):
if it does need to have a bit of funding
top up as well.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Where are they going to get the money from because
obviously they are going to need some funding top ups
and no stage in the history of New Zealand have
we had more people in jail than we do right now.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah. I mean that's that's always the million dollar question,
right where where do we get the money from? So
I feel like that's more up to the coalition to
answer for than myself, but yeah, it is a it
is a big question.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Big announcement for Wellingtonians this afternoon, Azaria.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Yeah, so the Prime Minister is confirmed this morning speaking
to Mike Hosking that changes to quake prone building legislation
are expected to be announced today, so we're expecting that
sort of mid afternoon. Chris Luxen told Mike Hosking it's
essentially about getting the balance right between costs and risk.
He said that legislation has been really one size fit's
(08:12):
all across the country and as you say, Neck, this
will be a big deal, especially for Wellington. As there
are a lot of quake prone buildings when you walk
down in the city and there are so many of
those little slips of paper that say that this is
a quake prone site. A lot of places bought it
up and things like that as well. And a number
of quake prone sites actually are owned by Wellington City Council,
(08:34):
so some of that is kind of our money that's
going into that as well, in terms of rate payer
money and public cash. There has been a previous rule
change in the space. The Minister of the Building in
Construction previously announced the deadline for seismic strengthening work would
be extended. But yes, as you say, another announcement on
its way soon. In terms of this, we're expecting some
(08:57):
more to hear a bit about this sort of mid
afternoon two thirty.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I'm hearing Azariah and I hear that, and I'm getting
this from the Prime Minister there and media is not
making it up. But it could be up to a
billion dollar saving for Wellingtonian's. I mean, we're we're the
major winner out of this. If they change their their rules,
we we potentially could be a winner.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Yeah, I mean it would be a massive deal for Wellington.
I mean the amount of buildings that are under either
a quake pro notice or are kind of on the
cusp of that, that will be a huge, huge deal
for the Capitol.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, especially down places like you know, Cuba Street and
Willis Street, all those old cruddy old just quickly. I mean,
do you you're a young person that goes out and Wellington,
do you look at that yellow sticker as you're about
to walk in and go, No, I'm not going into
that restaurant because it's got a yellow sticker in front
of it. Does it make any difference to you?
Speaker 3 (09:55):
I think, like subconsciously it does. To be honest, like
I do kind of yeah. I mean it's not great,
you know, and I'm sure there's a lot of people
that think the same way in terms of, you know,
it's just not a not a great look. I mean,
it does stay in the back of your mind like, oh,
I'm in a quake prone building, right like.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yeah, And some of the some of the most popular
restaurants and cafes and Wellington have got that yellow sticker
on them, so you yeah, all possibly could change today.
The word is that I'm hearing is that it's going
to be in a major announcement. I'll be very disappointed
if it isn't Azaria, because we've been waiting for such
a long time. There's been lots of promises. We're on
(10:37):
the edge, we're holding. Even things like the city to
see Bridge has been put on hold because of this
pending pardon the punt, pending decision. We'll find out this afternoon.
Thank you, as always. Azariah Hell, Senior Political Report of
For news Talks, there'd be coming to us live from
the Beehive.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news Talks There'd be Wellington from nine am week days,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks EDB Direct from News Talks edb's team
at Parliaments The bee Hive Buzz.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Azaria Howe was the senior political reporter for News Talks MB,
and she joins us live from the Beehive. Good morning, Izaria,
Good morning, good weekend.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Yeah, it's been a great weekend. It's been really good.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Okay, did you watch Winston Peters?
Speaker 3 (00:38):
I did, Yes, Yes, I did, Yeah, I watched. It
was very it was a very interesting one. I mean,
we sort of knew that New Zealand's position was when
not if, but beyond that in terms of recognizing Palestine,
it was really not certain in terms of whether or
it would be a yes or no until it was
(00:58):
actually being talked about that day.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Oh so you you kind of you kind of knew
that they were yes, that they wanted to but not
right now, but you didn't know when nor how is that?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
How? Yes?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yes, so the government's previously said a matter of recognizing
a state of Palestine would be about when, not if,
but yes, as you say, Winston Peters over the weekend
confirming to the UN General Assembly that now is not
the time, so he spoke to the un essentially detailing
that it could be sort of counterproductive for New Zealand
(01:31):
to recognize the Palestinian state at this stage, essentially pointing
to the way that both Hamas and Israel have reacted
when other countries have supported recognition, kind of ramping up
the military action. The Foreign Affairs Minister is sort of
suggesting as well that it's exacerbated the situation in Gaza.
The speech also came after the likes of Australia, Canada,
(01:53):
France and the UK have supported formal recognition of a
Palestinian state, and a lot of them did so on
the same day, so it was interesting that day when
New Zealand didn't. It sort of raised a couple of
qu questions. But yes, New Zealand's previously held the view
that recognition as a matter of when, not if, and
it has been confirmed that essentially that's still the case,
(02:16):
but that now is not the time. The Prime Minister
is also confident that the coalitions come to the right
agreement on the matter. We've had to have discussions between
National New Zealand's First and Act and he's saying that
as the leader of Nationals. The decision sits well with
him saying really that Hamas is the de facto government
(02:36):
of Gaza. It is also worth noting though a number
of countries that have supported formal recognition are doing so
with conditions on Hamas, so it means that they would
essentially be unable to have any role in any future
governance arrangement in that area. But there has been quite
a lot of reaction to this.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
One, Asariah. We've been waiting for forty years for a
decision from previous governments and of both you know, left
and right, have they always used the when not if?
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Yeah, I mean that has been something that has been discussed.
I mean it is interesting because in terms of the
reaction from the Labor Party, I mean they're saying that
this puts New Zealand on the wrong side of history.
So it does kind of raise the question, well, why
wasn't that something that Labor did when they were in government.
(03:26):
But obviously the situation has become increasingly exacerbated in recent
years since that attack on October the seventh and the
ongoing response to that as well. In terms of that
situation in Gaza, So the Labor Party has said that
really that there's no two states solution or enduring peace
(03:49):
in the Middle East without that recognition of Palestine as
a state. That's from Labour's Penny Henna Day. But Senior
Labor and p Willie Jackson he went even further than this.
He said it was a shameful day and then said, quote,
this is a dark day for our nation. He said,
all all that blood spilled in previous wars for freedom
(04:09):
and democracy are wasted and demeaned by this appalling cowardice.
That is his words from Willie Jackson. He says, shame
on you, Winston. I never thought you would act like this.
Former Prime Minister Helen Clarke Wills weighing in on this
one again saying that New Zealand's placed itself on the
wrong side of history. The Greens also have given a
(04:30):
reaction to this, co leader Madame Davidson saying it's bitterly disappointing,
saying that the government is cowardly. It's a stain on
the country's reputation. So a lot of strong views on
this one also worth pointing out though as well. Another
significant part of this announcement ten million dollars in additional
humanitarian aid in the area. So we do hope that
(04:52):
that provides improvement to the situation. But there has been
quite a lot of back and forth in terms of
the reaction from politicians and political parties about not recognizing
Palestine at this stage.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Very well for them to come out and say it.
When they were in government, they didn't do it as well,
so you know, I don't give that a lot of credits.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Really.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
I mean, Labor have said essentially in a press conference
that they would had they if they're in government in future,
so it is worth keeping eye on that. Just see.
I mean, the situation has kind of gotten more severe
in recent years, but yes, I mean it has been.
(05:34):
New Zealand's position for a long time has been to
support a two state solution. It's just when do we
formally recognize a Palestinian state, And it appears like our
government's position is that now is just not the right
time to do that.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Zaria. A couple of weeks ago, we did a story
on the show that the prison population in New Zealand's
growing to just over or just under ten thousand. Now
that it's growing, you know, obviously with the new stance
on crime that the coalition government have, but does the
corrections have the cash to year with it. I mean,
I've heard a while ago that there's a big announcement
(06:10):
coming with a new jail in the Hawk's Bay. What
are you hearing?
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Yeah, so we've had a really interesting story from Derek
Chang from The Herald. An extra ninety eight million dollars
was announced in this year's budget, that being Budget twenty
twenty five, mostly to hire frontline correction stuff that was
supposed to last until June, and it was also expected
to cover a forecast increase in the prison population as well.
(06:35):
But by the end of June this year there's been
almost an all time high prison population. That's a year
earlier than what we're expecting in those forecasts. So yes,
essentially Budget twenty twenty five provided funding to cover a
forecast ten thousand, eight hundred and sixty prisoners by June
next year, but by the end of June this year
(06:56):
there were already ten thousand, seven hundred and eighty three prisoners.
So essentially just a little bit off of that number
in terms of the prediction well than expected well Correction
Corrections Minister rather Mark Mitchell, so there's no looming crisis.
It's also saying that services are improving, so we'll keep
an eye on this one in terms of the reaction
(07:19):
if it does need to have a bit of funding
top up as well.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Where are they going to get the money from because
obviously they are going to need some funding top ups
and no stage in the history of New Zealand have
we had more people in jail than we do right now.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah. I mean that's that's always the million dollar question,
right where where do we get the money from? So
I feel like that's more up to the coalition to
answer for than myself, but yeah, it is a it
is a big question.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Big announcement for Wellingtonians this afternoon, Azaria.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Yeah, so the Prime Minister is confirmed this morning speaking
to Mike Hosking that changes to quake prone building legislation
are expected to be announced today, so we're expecting that
sort of mid afternoon. Chris Luxen told Mike Hosking it's
essentially about getting the balance right between costs and risk.
He said that legislation has been really one size fit's
(08:12):
all across the country and as you say, Neck, this
will be a big deal, especially for Wellington. As there
are a lot of quake prone buildings when you walk
down in the city and there are so many of
those little slips of paper that say that this is
a quake prone site. A lot of places bought it
up and things like that as well. And a number
of quake prone sites actually are owned by Wellington City Council,
(08:34):
so some of that is kind of our money that's
going into that as well, in terms of rate payer
money and public cash. There has been a previous rule
change in the space. The Minister of the Building in
Construction previously announced the deadline for seismic strengthening work would
be extended. But yes, as you say, another announcement on
its way soon. In terms of this, we're expecting some
(08:57):
more to hear a bit about this sort of mid
afternoon two thirty.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I'm hearing Azariah and I hear that, and I'm getting
this from the Prime Minister there and media is not
making it up. But it could be up to a
billion dollar saving for Wellingtonian's. I mean, we're we're the
major winner out of this. If they change their their rules,
we we potentially could be a winner.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Yeah, I mean it would be a massive deal for Wellington.
I mean the amount of buildings that are under either
a quake pro notice or are kind of on the
cusp of that, that will be a huge, huge deal
for the Capitol.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, especially down places like you know, Cuba Street and
Willis Street, all those old cruddy old just quickly. I mean,
do you you're a young person that goes out and Wellington,
do you look at that yellow sticker as you're about
to walk in and go, No, I'm not going into
that restaurant because it's got a yellow sticker in front
of it. Does it make any difference to you?
Speaker 3 (09:55):
I think, like subconsciously it does. To be honest, like
I do kind of yeah. I mean it's not great,
you know, and I'm sure there's a lot of people
that think the same way in terms of, you know,
it's just not a not a great look. I mean,
it does stay in the back of your mind like, oh,
I'm in a quake prone building, right like.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yeah, And some of the some of the most popular
restaurants and cafes and Wellington have got that yellow sticker
on them, so you yeah, all possibly could change today.
The word is that I'm hearing is that it's going
to be in a major announcement. I'll be very disappointed
if it isn't Azaria, because we've been waiting for such
a long time. There's been lots of promises. We're on
(10:37):
the edge, we're holding. Even things like the city to
see Bridge has been put on hold because of this
pending pardon the punt, pending decision. We'll find out this afternoon.
Thank you, as always. Azariah Hell, Senior Political Report of
For news Talks, there'd be coming to us live from
the Beehive.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news Talks There'd be Wellington from nine am week days,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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